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Hey everyone, and welcome to the
Doctors are running podcast for 

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we a group of doctors physical 
therapy talk about the art and 

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the science of the things that 
we're putting on our feet today.

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I'm honored to have Doctor Salas
with me. 

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I'm as always, Matthew Klein and
we're going to get right into 

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this. 
Although we do have to 

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acknowledge that this is the 
weekend before Thanksgiving, 

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although when you're listening 
to this is going to be long 

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after the Thanksgiving week of 
2024. 

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But as always, the stereotypical
runner question David, are you 

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going to be doing a Turkey Trot?
You know, the last couple years 

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I haven't. 
And this year I was tossing it 

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around back and forth and then I
was like, you know what? 

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I've never done my hometown 
Turkey Trot. 

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I, I've, I've never done really 
much local races period out in 

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Redlands. 
I've done it like one or two at 

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this point over like years of 
being over there right before 

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moving out to Santa Barbara. 
And so I decided, yeah, I'll do 

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it. 
So it's going to be off of short

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sleep. 
I'm going to be driving from 

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here Wednesday night down there.
So hopefully we get down there 

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halfway smooth and then wake up 
early for the trot and we'll 

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just leave it out there and do 
the best we can for that 5K. 

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Yeah, for the Redlands peeps, 
I'll be out there. 

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Sweet. 
And for those who don't know, 

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you're driving from Santa 
Barbara all the way to Redlands,

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correct? 
Yes, yeah, I'm going to work a 

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full day on Wednesday and then 
drive down. 

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We usually try to have like a 
quick dinner, like we'll just 

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like Chipotle or something 
Wednesday night and then hit the

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road, you know? 
Sweet. 

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How long of a drive is that? 
No traffic. 

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It's like if it's absolutely 
perfect, maybe like 2:45. 

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Yeah. 
So Thanksgiving, the day before 

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Thanksgiving, I mean, we might 
be getting there pretty late. 

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So yeah, it's gets literally 
going to be a drive down there, 

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get there late, wake up early, 
go hit a race. 

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Like it's not ideal at all, but 
it'll be but it'll be fun. 

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You know, I've never done it 
before and I know those streets 

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like the back of my hand and I 
actually like where the start of

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the race is, is probably about a
mile and a half ish from my 

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place. 
So I can just like, yeah, I 

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could just warm up there, you 
know, warm up, do some strides, 

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do the race, cool down home. 
You know, parents will probably 

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just go drive down the street, 
get a little parking, you know, 

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and then like watch it from 
there. 

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So yeah, it should be good. 
So yeah, gonna be back in the 

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nine O 9 for a couple days 
there. 

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That should be great. 
So let's jump in to our are. 

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You going to be doing? 
I took you try, you just dodged 

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it. 
Yeah, I'm having some mysterious

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health problems right now. 
I've been in and out of urgent 

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care last a week or two. 
So based on not knowing what's 

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happening and not being at good 
health and having to had cut a 

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bunch of mileage and unknown 
fatigue and some weird systemic 

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issues, don't know if there's 
any racing in my future. 

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For the moment, until we can 
figure this stuff out, Regina's 

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going to be racing. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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So Regina will definitely be 
racing. 

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So she's really excited to kind 
of test the the Sherwood 

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hometown vibes here. 
Ironically, she was like, oh, 

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no, like these, this, this. 
It might be a little hilly. 

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And likely we literally run 
workouts on the course in 

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Sherwood on the the route all 
the time. 

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Like, you're going to be fine. 
So if, if my body's OK, I'll 

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probably be doing a workout with
Isabella while I'm watching her.

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But I will not be racing for the
perceivable future. 

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But Regina certainly will. 
So yeah, that's why I've tried 

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to dodge the question. 
Awkward. 

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So all right, let's jump into 
this. 

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So our first topic, ironically 
is something I've wanted to talk

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about quite a quite for some 
time and we should actually 

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debate this a little bit. 
So the first question on this 

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buy or sell sheet, the episode 
that we're going to do is buy or

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sell brands making shoes and 
trainers over 40mm. 

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What are your thoughts? 
Yeah, I do have a little caveat 

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on mine. 
I think it's a buy for me, but I

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don't think we should get out of
hand with that. 

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I think having a model, maybe 2,
you know, over that stack height

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is fine. 
But I do think when you start 

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seeing the flagship shoes being 
over 40 and then the premium 

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spin over that, like every shoe 
is now basically 40 plus. 

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You know, that feels like too 
much to me. 

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To the point where it's like if 
they offer a 30, it's like, oh 

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wow, look how low to the crown 
that shoe is. 

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And it's like it wasn't that 
long ago. 30 was pretty high. 

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So I I do think, and we were 
saying that kind of like with 

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the A6 GT that one time, right, 
like was like mid 30s and it's 

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like quote UN quote moderate 
low, you know, like compared to 

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everything else. 
So I'm a buy because there are 

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some people that really do well 
with having a lot of foam under 

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foot and they, they like the 
feeling, they like the cushion 

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and you can usually build in 
some pretty stiff rockers for 

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people that need it. 
Like I, I think it is a buy but 

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I I just don't want it to be out
of hand to where everything is 

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over 40. 
I would agree with you and I. 

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I misspoke for the listeners and
the viewers. 

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I meant to say signature 
trained. 

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Do we need to have signature 
trainers over? 

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Oh, like a signature. 40mm. 
Being like a New Balance 1080 or

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not 1080 like an 880 yeah 
cumulus yeah Mizuno wave rider 

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Nike peg the. 
Yeah, yeah, Yeah. 

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I think I'm assuming your answer
still stands. 

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Mine is also yes. 
And I think only as long as it's

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appropriate where I think just 
the market trends are right 

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there. 
And I was just talking to some 

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of the phenomenal people at 
Brooks where they're going, you 

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know. 
Yeah, even our like, you know, 

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our glycerin, that stuff is 
getting into that level. 

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And then now they have a 
Glycerin Max, for example. 

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It is definitely sitting in that
47mm stack hype. 

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I think having that that they're
naturally going to go that way. 

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Do they need to get up into that
454647 millimeter heel height? 

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No, I think you should stay 
right at that 40mm ish area and 

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that's solely fine to be a 
little bit above and there's a 

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lot of trainers that are doing 
that. 

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But if you're going to get start
getting much higher than that, I

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think you are starting to really
D and somebody can disagree with

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me because you've already 
deviated away from where they 

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used to be. 
But I think when you start 

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getting that much higher, 
there's a lot of geometry 

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changes that might take the shoe
away from it being a signature 

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trainer. 
And so I think that's where you 

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can have these more maximal 
versions like we just got to see

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at TR, even though we weren't 
there, the although we'd seen 

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these on an Internet, the 
Pegasus premium, the Vimero 

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premium, you know, the we've 
already been talking about the 

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glycerin Max from Brooks and all
these other shoes. 

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So I think there's another 
category now that being in this 

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area a little bit above is fine.
Does it? 

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You need to get way above no. 
That's where that separate 

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category can be so you don't 
necessarily start blending too 

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much. 
So a yes, but within reason. 

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Not bleeding other category, I'm
sure. 

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Although I'm sure that'll happen
as we progress or things will 

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swing the other way. 
Who knows what's going to 

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happen. 
So sweet. 

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All right, next, buy or sell, 
Nike is no longer the leader of 

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Super Racing Shoes. 
We want to clarify. 

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The original comic was Super 
Shoes. 

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We're going to clarify Super 
Racing Shoes. 

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David, what do you think? 
Yeah, I, I can interpret this 

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wording in two ways. 
Because when you say the word 

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leader, it implies leading and 
kind of being first up and being

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kind of a front runner on 
things. 

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And people are looking at you. 
And I would argue that this is a

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sell for me. 
And it's not because other 

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companies don't have, you know, 
product that matches up to Nike.

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I there's actually several super
shoes out this year that I will 

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take over the Nike super shoes. 
But I do think Nike has done a 

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very good job of being kind of 
the first one to swing, you 

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know, like Alphafly released 
right in January last year. 

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Like they always find ways of 
timing their releases to where 

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everybody's looking at them. 
You know, and I think when you 

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look on the feet of people at 
these races, you're seeing more 

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of the other companies now, but 
you're still seeing way more 

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Nike than you're seeing of the 
other companies. 

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And I think they still kind of 
have that edge from whether it's

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the marketing standpoint or the 
purchasing standpoint. 

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I think people associate Nike 
with performance and for many 

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years they were the gold 
standard for performance running

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shoes. 
I think the playing feels much 

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more level. 
But are they still the leader? 

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I do think they are. 
OK, just for for disagreement 

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purposes, I'm going to say I buy
that even though Nike is 

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Beaverton is in my backyard. 
Nike people, if you're 

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listening, I'd love to come hang
out. 

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I used to do lots of long runs 
around your campus back when I 

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grew up in Portland. 
You guys are awesome guys, gals 

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and people. 
I'm going to say bye because I'm

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going to go with the comment 
that I think the playing field 

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has been levelled not with 
everyone, but with a couple 

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brands. 
I think a great example of this 

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is on the Cloud. 
Boom Strike really blew me away 

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as a really awesome shoe that I 
think for a variety of reasons, 

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not necessarily better, but a 
good alternative to a shoe like 

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the Alphafly, the Endorphin 
Elite, and obviously Endorphin 

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Elite 2, which you and I have 
tried on. 

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We did. 
Haven't gotten to test 

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extensively. 
I'm allowed to say that now, 

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right? 
Since it's all over the place. 

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If it's all over the place, if 
it's all over the place, we're 

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probably cool. 
Yeah, we're gonna all right. 

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We're gonna be. 
We have not run it extensively. 

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We know it exists. 
That can't tell you why, but the

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Sockety Endorphin Elite 2 is 
another great example of shoes 

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that just show you like, yes, 
this is like really doing well. 

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You have alternative to this. 
Faberfly is a great shoe. 

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I think it's still a phenomenal,
in my opinion, shorter distance 

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shoe for a lot of people. 
I think you've got companies 

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like ASICS who are crushing it 
with the endorphin edge. 

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I think I even brought this up 
here for the viewers. 

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You got 361 dropping a banger 
with the mirror, which is 

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insane. 
I think and you know Adidas is 

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also coming into their own. 
The endorphin Pro 4 is is a 

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phenomenal update. 
I I mean, gosh, sorry, I still 

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think it was in the audios pro 
four. 

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Oh my gosh, The audios pro 4 is 
a is a massive performance 

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improvement. 
I think it's going to it might 

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not do as well with the 
recreational runner, but for 

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like your higher level athletes,
it's definitely aggressive. 

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Adidas also putting out some 
really interesting stuff and 

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there's a lot of cool stuff to 
come from them in their 

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performance line. 
So I think the playing field has

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leveled. 
I think still the alpha fly 3 is

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a gold. 
The alpha fly is still going to 

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be a gold standard. 
The vapor fly is going to be a 

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gold standard, but I think a lot
of companies are matching it. 

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And I totally forgot to talk 
about the on the cloud Boom 

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Strike LS that we haven't tried 
with the new, what is it called 

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light spray. 
But it's a clot room strike with

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light spray, Yeah. 
But with that upper and it's 

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coming in at like a little over 
6 oz or something like that. 

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Pretty good. 
It's that's like that's pretty. 

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Yeah. 
So you've got some stuff that's 

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rivaling. 
I'm not necessarily going to say

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better, but it's different. 
So which is good? 

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It's good to have competition. 
Nothing against Nike. 

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I still like, I still really 
like the Outfly 3 out. 

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There's some durability issues 
with me in that shoe. 

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The the vapor fly is still a 
phenomenal shoe and rightly 

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deserves to be on the feet of so
many runners, especially high 

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school college runners. 
It makes total sense, but 

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00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:34,800
there's a lot of good options 
out there and the playing fields

225
00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,400
been more leveled. 
So we will have to see who 

226
00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:42,040
really makes the big move next 
to pull ahead and I haven't I 

227
00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,120
don't think I've seen that. 
I think no offense sock and you 

228
00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,000
guys are really cool with the 
Incredi run and that stuff. 

229
00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,440
I don't think it's enough to 
make a really big headway, but 

230
00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:52,360
maybe because I haven't spent 
enough time in that shoe, 

231
00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:54,120
although that the shoe scared me
when I put that on. 

232
00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,000
Like there's no way my ankles 
can handle this. 

233
00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,760
Maybe David can. 
I mean you, but we'll have to do

234
00:11:58,760 --> 00:11:59,360
that. 
Oh man, my. 

235
00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:01,160
Feet have been pretty sensitive 
lately. 

236
00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:05,720
I know both gosh. 
All right, on to the next one. 

237
00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,480
So apparel buy or sell apparel 
brands entering the shoe market 

238
00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,120
are a good thing. 
Example of this include Track 

239
00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:17,280
Smith Rabbit and most recently 
CEP debuting a super trainer at.

240
00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,840
TR tier TYR, they release it. 
Oh, that's right. 

241
00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,120
Yeah, I forgot that one when we 
were talking. 

242
00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:25,200
Yeah. 
I mean, and we haven't got to 

243
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,280
try their stuff. 
I'm super curious in their 

244
00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:29,800
shoes. 
Haven't haven't pulled the 

245
00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:31,160
trigger yet. 
And if you guys are listening, 

246
00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:33,960
we are, we are interested. 
But yeah, buy or sell. 

247
00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,000
Yeah, You know, I'm a buy I, I 
don't like, why not? 

248
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,560
You know, their companies, they 
make things, they're in the 

249
00:12:39,560 --> 00:12:42,760
space, they have a name. 
Why not take a crack at making a

250
00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:44,880
shoe? 
You know, and I, I know some of 

251
00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:49,160
the reasons, like it's hard 
anytime someone does something 

252
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,480
new, you know, you're always 
going to have people kind of 

253
00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,440
talking about it. 
Is it actually going to be worth

254
00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,880
it? 
Why are you doing this? 

255
00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,200
You're already established in 
other lanes. 

256
00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:02,200
And I have, I have no idea, you 
know, with these companies and 

257
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,320
what their motives are and why 
they're doing it. 

258
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:08,120
But I can't help but feel like, 
I mean, it's almost always to 

259
00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,960
expand the company, right? 
Like to create more revenue, do 

260
00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,400
more things like that, whether 
it's from shareholder interests 

261
00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,880
or not, like I, I don't know, 
you know, our investors and 

262
00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:21,520
stuff. 
But why not, You know, if it's a

263
00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,640
dream and you want to do it and 
you want to have a shoe and 

264
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:25,520
you're an owner of an apparel 
company and you're like, let's 

265
00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:27,160
do it. 
Like, yeah, go do it. 

266
00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,360
Why not? 
You know, does it add another 

267
00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,120
option in the market in an 
already saturated market? 

268
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:42,280
It sure does. 
I like the logic here. 

269
00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,560
We're already over feeling. 
Screw it, just put another one 

270
00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:45,840
in. 
What's the worst that happens? 

271
00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:47,120
Like just like a shoe? 
Go. 

272
00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:48,520
Fine, do it. 
Yeah. 

273
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,960
You know, and it might hit home 
for one for a few people, you 

274
00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:53,760
know, And if it does, then 
that's great. 

275
00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:55,960
Now they have another. 
They have an option, and they 

276
00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:57,240
have a shoe that they really 
like. 

277
00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,840
So yeah. 
But yeah, as the market 

278
00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,240
saturated already, there's a 
crap ton of shoes out there. 

279
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:03,680
Yeah. 
Yeah, there's another. 

280
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,000
The buy and sell will have all 
this in just a second that will 

281
00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:08,120
overdress this more. 
But I'm with you. 

282
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,560
Why not? 
I mean, for those that don't 

283
00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:13,200
know, we've, we've been around 
long enough and I certainly even

284
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,560
before doctor running, got to 
know the running industry really

285
00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:18,120
well. 
And it is, and I mean this not 

286
00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,120
in a weird way, one of the most 
incestuous injuries trees I've 

287
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,440
I've ever known where it's like,
we'll be talking to somebody and

288
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,120
then like two months later 
going, what are you doing over 

289
00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:28,200
here? 
They're a completely different 

290
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:29,080
company. 
Like what are you doing? 

291
00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,680
Like, oh, I just moved, they got
bored or I want to pay raise so 

292
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,280
that the easiest way to get a 
raise is go work somewhere else 

293
00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,720
and they just move around and it
keeps things really interesting.

294
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,080
Some people are pretty stable, 
but that's, you know, and 

295
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,600
especially in like PhD bio 
mechanics world, but you're 

296
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,600
talking like some people that 
are like product line managers 

297
00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:47,480
and like developers and stuff 
like that. 

298
00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,320
People move, right. 
They have different things that 

299
00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,440
they want and some of those 
people end up at apparel 

300
00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,400
companies that have skills in 
footwear. 

301
00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,680
And I say, why not? 
You got the resources, you got 

302
00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:58,360
somebody wanting to do it, go 
for it. 

303
00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,840
Like I'm to be honest that I 
didn't get to try it. 

304
00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,600
I'm interested in the I've never
actually tried any track Smith 

305
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:04,960
gear. 
I'm really interested in the 

306
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,040
track Smith runner, although I 
don't think it would probably 

307
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,200
work with my mechanics and I'm 
super interested in the track 

308
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,080
Smith Elliot racer. 
It looks pretty sweet, right? 

309
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:15,000
Like they they make good looking
stuff. 

310
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,480
It looks cool. 
I'm interested. 

311
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,680
I'm interested in that super 
trainer from CEP right. 

312
00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,320
My wife loves their compression 
socks and it looks interesting 

313
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:26,920
and it looks like the cutouts 
are going to break my foot. 

314
00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:28,240
So of course I'm super 
interested. 

315
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,880
I want to put my foot in here. 
I want to see what happens. 

316
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:37,120
So you know, I guess a massive 
geometry cutouts in that shoe. 

317
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,400
Like remember I would get on 
like ASICS, for example, for 

318
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,680
having like a midfoot cut out or
something like that. 

319
00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,800
Like they went like they were 
like, hey, remember like 1990, 

320
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,400
let's go beyond that and see 
what happens. 

321
00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:53,560
All right, next question. 
Buy or sell stability shoes are 

322
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,320
better now than they've ever 
been. 

323
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,160
Yeah, that is a. 
That's a loaded one. 

324
00:15:58,360 --> 00:15:59,800
That's a. 
Hard question. 

325
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:07,360
Very, very hard one I Oh man. 
So many pieces of this question.

326
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,560
I'm going to sell it. 
Oh, what's why that's here? 

327
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:17,680
I think it is better in terms of
accommodating for the platforms 

328
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,080
that they're built on. 
Is it? 

329
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,920
But when you look at previous 
designs and what footwear used 

330
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,960
to look like, they were already 
kind of inherently stable, 

331
00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:29,560
right? 
Like these platforms have gotten

332
00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:33,000
more and more unstable. 
So they've been requiring more 

333
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,120
and more stability mechanisms. 
So in that way they have 

334
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,560
incorporated more and their 
stability is better, but the 

335
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:44,000
ultimate ending experience might
actually be kind of similar from

336
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,000
a quote UN quote stability 
standpoint. 

337
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:50,040
A lot of the shoes before, you 
know, thick outsole, I mean 

338
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,960
usually Eva midsole, usually 
pretty firm, you know, posted or

339
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:59,280
not posted, whatever. 
But what soul flares like, like 

340
00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,160
the stability shoes that used to
exist were act they were pretty 

341
00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:03,880
stable. 
Like I feel like they were. 

342
00:17:04,839 --> 00:17:07,599
I think one of the reasons why 
we started talking so much about

343
00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:11,520
change and reform for stability 
was in response to the change 

344
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:16,359
and reform of footwear. 
And yeah, it's a loaded, loaded 

345
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,800
answer. 
I so like, I think it's like 

346
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:24,079
it's better, but the ending 
experience is probably similar, 

347
00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:26,319
like, you know what I mean? 
Like it's more work to create 

348
00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:30,800
the same stable environment. 
I was unsure before, now I'm 

349
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,400
even more unsure this out but I 
I so I don't have an answer yet 

350
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,480
and I'm hopefully going to get 
there and said just rambling. 

351
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,600
I, I think in some ways things 
are better. 

352
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,920
And one of the reasons we 
started talking about this is 

353
00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:46,080
actually before a lot of this 
stuff happened, stability shoes,

354
00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,360
when we started talking about 
this were just dying in general,

355
00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:51,240
like we were losing them. 
And so the question came up 

356
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,480
going, all right, for those who 
need stability, what other 

357
00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:55,760
methods, what other resources do
you have? 

358
00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:57,680
Right? 
Oh, look, there's a shoe that is

359
00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,560
in the neutral category, but it 
actually ends up being pretty 

360
00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:02,520
stable. 
What mechanisms are allowing 

361
00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:03,840
that? 
So for those who do need 

362
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,360
stability, who are desperately 
trying to find it as all these 

363
00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:11,200
models disappear, you know, rest
in like all this, we have like 2

364
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,120
lighter weight, like mild 
stability model, 2 lighter 

365
00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:16,600
weight stability models left in 
the market. 

366
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,120
We have to use to have all these
different options that are gone.

367
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,840
We don't have any stable racing 
shoes or and we don't have any 

368
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,000
stability racing shoes at all, 
just some shoes that might be 

369
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:33,520
stable, neutral and neutral 
stable is a sometimes a slight 

370
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,120
exaggeration for some of them 
just based on the design. 

371
00:18:38,120 --> 00:18:40,760
So the the current stability 
issues I think are definitely 

372
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,080
better in the fact that they're 
less clunky. 

373
00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:48,200
You know, you and I love the the
GT 2013 and 12 or as a banger, 

374
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,240
both bangers, like they've been 
great. 

375
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,720
You know, you've got the 
hurricane finally came back. 

376
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,720
There's some things that need to
be redone and revised, I think 

377
00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,200
mostly in the upper, which will 
hopefully be fixed by next year.

378
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,760
And so we're seeing some cool 
stuff, but you're also seeing a 

379
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,240
massive decrease in the number 
of things. 

380
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,120
And a lot of these shoes are 
moving away from being true 

381
00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:12,920
stability shoes. 
As we define things that are 

382
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,040
becoming more of these like 
stable neutral shoes, you seem 

383
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:20,320
to see more of a blend. 
So I'm going to be negative and 

384
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:24,320
I'm going to say sell for the 
following reasons where you 

385
00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:27,800
know, yes, our stability are the
stability shoes out there right 

386
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,480
now probably better than the 
past. 

387
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,400
Yes, they're going to 
accommodate a wider variety of 

388
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:37,120
foot types and stability needs, 
but for those with higher 

389
00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:39,360
stability needs, you're screwed.
Or not. 

390
00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:40,280
You're not. 
You're screwed. 

391
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,440
That's what I mean. 
But you're in trouble, right? 

392
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:44,480
You're you're. 
Kind of like you're kind of in 

393
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,000
trouble because even she was 
like the adrenaline, even she's 

394
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,560
like the Keanu have less medial 
stability and they're more 

395
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,040
centered and part of that some 
of the research we've seen, but 

396
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,160
those are like, I really want 
like a lot of medial posting 

397
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,080
like good luck. 
That doesn't really exist. 

398
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,200
You could try to find that the 
beast, but that's. 

399
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,280
Kind of one of the few you might
be feel that in the adrenaline, 

400
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,000
but even that's kind of 
lightening up a little bit. 

401
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,320
So and then the other, the other
piece I think is I would say 

402
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,640
this was a buy if we still had 
variety, but we don't. 

403
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,440
I think the models are a little 
bit more limited unless you 

404
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,280
expand that into what you said, 
the stable neutral category, 

405
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,440
which is because so many shoes 
are so Max that you have to make

406
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,240
them stable or you'll literally 
roll off the platform. 

407
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:30,520
So outside the stability 
category, there's a greater 

408
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,080
diversity now of what's 
potentially available if you 

409
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,360
know what to look for. 
But within the stability 

410
00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:38,480
category, I think the models are
certainly better than what 

411
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,000
they're, they used to be in 
terms of smoothness, guidance, 

412
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,440
all that stuff. 
But we just have less options 

413
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,320
for those that need true 
stability and I think the 

414
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,800
lightweight category and 
certainly rate the racing which 

415
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:53,120
is gone is limiting things which
there used to be some sick. 

416
00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:55,720
I would love. 
Stability racing shoes out 

417
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:57,600
there, they were sick. 
They were awesome. 

418
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,400
You know, the fast switch was, 
and I'm going to use this term 

419
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:01,920
and I'm going to, I think I'm 
going to blame you because I 

420
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,360
think I heard you say this 
first, but the fast twitch was a

421
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:06,800
banger. 
That was a great shoe. 

422
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:08,600
That was awesome. 
It had so many different 

423
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,560
iterations. 
The last one was so light and 

424
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,680
had just enough there. 
But I would have loved to see a 

425
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,760
super shoe version of the fast 
switch. 

426
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,360
I would have loved to see a 
super shoe version of the DS 

427
00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:22,120
Racer. 
That's what I was going to say 

428
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,160
of I don't know why. 
DS racer in yeah, modern 

429
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:26,760
package. 
Dude, that would be that. 

430
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:30,680
Be so that be cool yeah lit 
that's the. 

431
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,960
Even if it wasn't like for like,
like even if it ended up being 

432
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:39,960
like a workout shoe to a super 
shoe, like that would still be a

433
00:21:40,120 --> 00:21:43,520
probably awesome yeah workout. 
But like, it would be a racing 

434
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:44,560
shoe for a lot of people, I'm 
sure. 

435
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:45,840
Right. 
You know, it'd be kind of like 

436
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:47,800
the, yeah. 
Yeah, that's fine. 

437
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,560
Like the Adidas Tempo, for 
example, which wasn't supposed 

438
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:52,080
to be a. 
Race tempo, a lot of people, 

439
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:53,200
that's a great example. 
It was a. 

440
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,120
Phenomenal shoe that was like on
the lighter side, mild 

441
00:21:57,120 --> 00:21:59,400
stability. 
You could totally use it for a 

442
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,960
tempo like workouts and stuff 
like that and a lot of people 

443
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,960
racing. 
Yeah, I know like so many people

444
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:06,600
that. 
Love that was like it was the 

445
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:10,560
stability version of the Boston 
basically and then it deviated 

446
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:14,400
and just died. 
So I think the models that are 

447
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,840
present in the stability world 
are doing better. 

448
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:21,200
But overall stability issues, we
don't have what we once had. 

449
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:23,520
And I think the market still 
wants that. 

450
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:25,360
And I'm going to give this 
example because this is out 

451
00:22:25,360 --> 00:22:26,520
there. 
And the reason I know this is 

452
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,840
because I saw it in Nikes 
diversifying their models there 

453
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:35,320
is they're going to add 2 
stability models, which is nuts,

454
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,160
right? 
So they have, you know, the 

455
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,720
Pegasus, the Peg Turbo and the 
Pegasus premium. 

456
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,480
Well, the Vimero is going to 
have a similar setup and so is 

457
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,000
the structure. 
And I think that's great that 

458
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,320
it's going to create this like 
this three by three thing of 

459
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,720
like some options, maybe a 
little bit lighter shoe, which, 

460
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,400
you know, I'm really hoping. 
And it sounds like there's 

461
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,000
there's going to be a Nike 
stability model with Zoom X in 

462
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,080
it. 
I'm like, let's go, let's get a 

463
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,960
stability peg turbo or Peg plus,
Pegasus Plus and have it be more

464
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:05,760
responsive. 
But then the current one. 

465
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,160
But let's go, let's give a 
little more variety because the 

466
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,760
variety is dead. 
And I think for that reason I am

467
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,840
I'm a sell. 
Not saying things aren't aren't 

468
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,280
doing well, but overall, man, I 
soapbox that. 

469
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:20,440
My bad. 
No, you're good. 

470
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,560
We're on a podcast, bro. 
Yeah. 

471
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:24,280
That's true. 
That's why we do this. 

472
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:26,800
All right, next one, buy or 
sell. 

473
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,240
There are still many voids in 
the running market to be filled.

474
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,600
I mean, I just talked about the 
like stability, racing up tempo 

475
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,160
stuff. 
That's a big one and it used to 

476
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:38,480
be big and then they just killed
it. 

477
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,480
And I think people are yearning 
for that at least. 

478
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:42,720
I mean, I'm biased, but what do 
you think, David? 

479
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,200
Yeah, it's a, it's a tough one, 
right? 

480
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,280
I mean, it's hard to say that 
there's many voids to be filled 

481
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:54,640
when you look at just the sheer 
number of shoes that exist and 

482
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,520
are being made right? 
Like it's hard to say like, Oh 

483
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,240
no, we need an entirely new 
category or you guys need to 

484
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:05,760
look at all of these things. 
So I'm actually going to be the 

485
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,680
question is that there are more 
voids. 

486
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:12,520
So then I am going to be there 
are still many voids keyword 

487
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,600
being many and I'm going to be a
sell on that. 

488
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,160
I think outside of that 
lightweight like performance 

489
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,320
category for the stability, you 
know, that lightweight 

490
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,880
stability, performance shoe 
trainer, racer, whatever we want

491
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:28,520
to call it. 
Yeah, RIP to the tempo. 

492
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:32,000
I don't, I'm still like, I don't
know how it fluttered into the 

493
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,520
back of my the remnants of my 
brain. 

494
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:34,840
Yeah. 
That she was a banger Like that 

495
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:36,400
was. 
Yeah, that was good. 

496
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:39,000
DS. 
Trainer too. 

497
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:40,960
DS. 
Trainer, yeah, DS trainer and DS

498
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,160
racer, like if those came back, 
that could be like. 

499
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,040
Should we just do an RIP mild 
stability like fast shoes 

500
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,360
episode we could? 
Just do an RIP episode. 

501
00:24:50,360 --> 00:24:51,680
Dude we should do an RIP 
episode. 

502
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,000
Bring Andrea on, she can just 
talk about the beacon for. 

503
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,520
You should talk about the beacon
the whole time. 

504
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,760
Yeah, we're gonna get a 40 
minute rants about the beacon. 

505
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,600
It'd be great. 
It'd be perfect. 

506
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:07,960
All right, sorry. 
So you know another Adidas 

507
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:09,960
Hagio? 
Do you remember that shoe? 

508
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,440
Was that a stability? 
It wasn't, but it was a pretty 

509
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,440
stable flat. 
Oh, you're like a cross, that 

510
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,000
was. 
Really like a racing shoe, like 

511
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,560
you can make an argument that 
that was like that, that was one

512
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,560
of the stable, that was lower 
profile racing shoes out there. 

513
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,400
I wouldn't say it's stable 
because I I can't remember the 

514
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,800
name of it, but Adidas did 
actually have a mild stability 

515
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,120
like shoe at that stack. 
I can't remember what it was 

516
00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:32,000
called and that's going to drive
me nuts. 

517
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,560
They also had one that was like 
a four foot stability shoe. 

518
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,800
ASICS did too. 
I actually ran 1/2 marathon in 

519
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,880
it not knowing what I was fully 
running in you. 

520
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,360
Gotta think about that. 
Gosh, what's that called? 

521
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,720
There's a photo of me running 
the past eight and a half 

522
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,280
marathon in it. 
From ASICS. 

523
00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:51,640
Yeah. 
It was a Japan only model 

524
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,240
though, so that was one of those
New Balance too. 

525
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,440
They actually had some Japan 
only series of like mild 

526
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,760
stability racing shoes that had 
like posting. 

527
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:01,800
But all right, let's get back to
the voids. 

528
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,800
Of a sell on the many voids, I 
think that's a category that 

529
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,360
could be expanded on and I think
there are enough people that 

530
00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:13,000
would appreciate that. 
But keyword being many, there's 

531
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,560
so many things out there. 
The companies are working hard 

532
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,200
to try and get people as much 
product as they can like 

533
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,880
they're, they're keeping tabs on
the trends in the markets. 

534
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,680
And I don't know if there's 
really that many voids, you 

535
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:28,760
know, that needs to be explored.
I think it's more just refining 

536
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,200
the categories that are all that
already exist and continuing to 

537
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,760
improve, which every company is 
going to be trying to do so. 

538
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,080
I think this this will go into 
our next buy or sell, but I am 

539
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,480
totally a cell with you that I 
think there's like one or two 

540
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,760
voids that need to be filled. 
The stability one, obviously, as

541
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,320
we're spending a lot of time 
talking about it, this ability 

542
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,760
like racing lightweight stuff. 
But outside of that, if you name

543
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,160
a category, you're going to find
something. 

544
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:54,840
There's still minimalist stuff 
out there. 

545
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,400
They'll there's still more 
moderate stack height stuff, 

546
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,760
which is it's not as much as it 
used to be, but you can you can 

547
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:01,560
still find it. 
It still exists out there. 

548
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,520
You're, you know, higher stack 
height daily training. 

549
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,360
It's out there. 
You're super racing shoe. 

550
00:27:06,360 --> 00:27:09,200
It's out there. 
You're older style, more like 

551
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,040
minimal super racing shoe that's
still out there. 

552
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,760
Like the ASICS hyper speed 
models are still out there and 

553
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,000
selling actually pretty well. 
I should get the new one and and

554
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,520
we should get the new one. 
That would be a good comparison.

555
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,760
Still want hyper speed because I
just had the rival fly come in. 

556
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,080
That's would be a really solid 
comparison between the two. 

557
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:27,360
They're both around the same 
price. 

558
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:28,080
Right. 
Yeah. 

559
00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:33,240
So rival fly, which you can talk
about at some point is another 

560
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:38,480
hey, that's out there for that, 
like more lighter, lower 

561
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,280
moderate to lower stack rate. 
Like faster shoe that's out 

562
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,600
there. 
Your super stack shoe that's out

563
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,280
there, your super trainer, your 
super racer that's out there. 

564
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,760
Like your moderate stack height 
with super foam or with with 

565
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,720
like an Eva, Like you know, your
trail shoe, your lower trail 

566
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,960
shoe, your higher, your super 
trail shoe, like you know, your 

567
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,200
technical, you're all the stuff 
those there's a lot of you're at

568
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,440
leisure shoe, which we'll talk 
about in a second. 

569
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,640
Like that stuff is all out 
there. 

570
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:11,280
I think what brands need to do 
instead of looking for more 

571
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:17,720
voids to fill other than this 
Billy 1 is really refine the 

572
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,880
categories that already are 
there and refine the products 

573
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:25,400
that are there without making 50
billion ones and and confusing 

574
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,360
consumers like do what you do 
well instead of making thousand 

575
00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:32,600
models all the time. 
And I think that gives it goes 

576
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,920
into our next question is that 
it's hard buy or sell David. 

577
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,360
It's harder now than ever before
to select A shoe for a new 

578
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:44,440
runner. 1000% that's a buy. 
Yeah, that's that's that's 

579
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,440
probably one of the that's 
probably the hardest buy on this

580
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,960
list. 
You know where it's like, I 

581
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,400
can't tell you, especially now, 
I feel like we are in a era 

582
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:59,640
where the run club is exploding 
everywhere. 

583
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,960
It used to be like like the 
local run club used to be kind 

584
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,120
of like. 
Can I take this? 

585
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:07,440
Yeah. 
Yeah, go for it. 

586
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:08,960
Well, you're, you're in 
Portland, there's probably 

587
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,000
30-40. 
Run clubs and I've, I've told 

588
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,440
this before and that, you know, 
Regina and I are in Sherwood, 

589
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,680
Sir, we're ways out from 
Portland, but we occasionally 

590
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,600
make, we're down there. 
There's hundreds of run clubs in

591
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:22,760
Portland. 
There were hundreds, if not 

592
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,600
thousands of run clubs in LA and
just like everywhere and I, I'm 

593
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,320
not. 
Opposed and so like people 

594
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,560
getting together 10 years ago, 
was it just like LA Roadrunners 

595
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,320
and a couple local one off ones?
Yeah, you know, it be 1 pace 

596
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:41,560
like LA yeah, even that. 
But most like run groups were 

597
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,640
like a couple. 
Either you had your yeah, you 

598
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,120
had your snails pace, you had 
your like group of the 

599
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,400
recreation, but it was a big 
thing and there weren't a lot of

600
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,080
them. 
And then most small groups were 

601
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,280
a bunch of weirdos like you and 
me still trying to run fast. 

602
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:59,600
All these like 222-3240 
marathoners getting together to 

603
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:04,960
go hammer some crazy stupid run 
because like my first like run 

604
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,440
group, like run club. 
My experience was when I was 

605
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,360
still working at Fitright 
Northwest, which kudos to you if

606
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,760
you know what that is, a local 
Portland running store that used

607
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:18,240
to exist. 
Shout out to Rob Finnigan and 

608
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:19,520
Dave Sobolas who were the 
owners. 

609
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,200
And I remember joining a couple 
dudes who were all like sub like

610
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:29,600
220 mid 220 marathoners who went
to run up at Forest Park. 

611
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,080
And I had no idea what I was 
getting into. 

612
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,040
Just a group of probably like 
10-15 guys and they went and 

613
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,960
hammered one of the like I'd 
never, I, I didn't know we were 

614
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,440
doing and we hammered this 20 
mile run and it was an average 6

615
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,680
minute pace and we were ending 
it like low fives and I had no 

616
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:49,040
idea what was happening. 
And it like that was a run that 

617
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,560
was like your run group. 
And now that's not what's 

618
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,680
happening. 
Now you have thousands of run 

619
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,400
groups that aren't people like 
that. 

620
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,840
You have a huge diversity of 
human beings. 

621
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,480
And unfortunately, and I'm 
probably going to catch some 

622
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,600
Flack for this, there's some 
really great ones out there. 

623
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,680
And there's also some ones where
it's like human beings, they're 

624
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,000
showing up to show off the new 
issue they have. 

625
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,200
They're, you know, they, they 
took their Alpha fly. 

626
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,520
It's a club club. 
Yeah, it's a running club. 

627
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,320
Club is what a lot of them are. 
And that can be great because it

628
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,440
gets people out. 
It could be not great because 

629
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,440
people take their Alpha fly 3 to
an easy run and they their easy 

630
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,720
run starts off at like 6 minute 
pace. 

631
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,600
And, you know, so it's a it's a 
different thing. 

632
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,600
Oh my gosh, this is this was OK.
That was a tangent. 

633
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:34,960
Yeah, a little. 
Bit but I think. 

634
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,160
Buyers sell. 
It's harder than ever to force. 

635
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,040
Like to shoot for a new runner. 
Oh my gosh. 

636
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:40,880
What I was? 
Yeah, they're crazy. 

637
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,760
They're they're there's so many.
Yeah, I, I was just going to 

638
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,120
say, I feel like we're kind of 
getting a resurgence of the 

639
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,680
sport kind of like, yeah, it 
was, it was the 80s. 

640
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:50,840
Was that when it really kind of 
started the 70s? 

641
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,040
And 80s when like jogging came. 
About I feel like we're getting 

642
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,840
a resurgence of that. 
You know, there's so many people

643
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,280
with the run clubs, there's this
social aspect, you know, like 

644
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,360
you said, it was before it was 
kind of the people that wanted 

645
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,960
to keep doing it. 
And there was a very intrinsic 

646
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,600
drive to be like, I want to be 
as good as I can at this, you 

647
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:09,840
know, and that was kind of the 
driver. 

648
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,880
There were some community based 
groups, but even with the 

649
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,000
majority, yeah, like there's 
always been some, but I feel 

650
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:20,480
like almost every city now has 
multiple more community based. 

651
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:21,440
And it's like the whole thing, 
right? 

652
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,040
Meet at the Brewing Company, 
meet at the coffee company, meet

653
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,880
at, you know, and it's a whole, 
it's a whole thing and it's a, 

654
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,640
it's a, it's literally like a 
social hour of running. 

655
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,800
And I think it's great. 
It gets people moving and 

656
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,840
they're doing stuff and it 
brings a lot of people together.

657
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,560
But what it also brings is a lot
of new runners and it brings a 

658
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,240
lot of people that are 
completely brand new to the to 

659
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:45,160
even with the concept of running
3-4 miles even is, you know, a 

660
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,160
lot of them, it's like, OK, show
up and run a 5K. 

661
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:48,960
And some of them have never run 
a 5K before. 

662
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,360
And now they're coming in and 
they're running and OK, so now I

663
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,000
need to get a shoe. 
And then they look and then 

664
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,480
there's 70 shoes to choose from 
and they're just like, OK, well,

665
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,200
what's a good shoe? 
Tell me it's like, well, it's 

666
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:01,840
not that simple. 
Literally every person at the 

667
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,840
running club is wearing a 
different shoe and you have an 

668
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,440
Ant like a sample size of like 
70 to 100 people and you're 

669
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,480
like, yeah, how is no one 
wearing the same shoe? 

670
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:09,720
Like what? 
What is going on? 

671
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:11,360
It must be so overwhelming. 
Yeah. 

672
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,720
So I think that's more the lens 
that I'm coming at it from where

673
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,280
it's you just have, I think a 
lot of new runners that have 

674
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,680
entered the space, you know, and
they're not necessarily in the 

675
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:23,640
competitive scene. 
They just they want to run, they

676
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,400
want to be healthy, they want to
be social. 

677
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,080
You know, it gets people out the
door and move. 

678
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,520
And I'm all for it. 
But they also like it's just 

679
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,200
it's new, it's novel, it's it's 
overwhelming. 

680
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:37,240
It can be, at least when you go 
to start looking at a product to

681
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,920
use or tools to use for what 
you're doing. 

682
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,000
And I think yeah and to it's 
also because we have more 

683
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,760
product than ever before. 
You're talking about the last 

684
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,400
question, are they many voids 
like no, outside of like the one

685
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,640
we keep talking about? 
I'd argue you've been apparel in

686
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,120
that too, because like you said,
you show up and everyone's 

687
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,120
wearing their nice running 
apparel. 

688
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,400
Like that's become a whole thing
in itself too, right? 

689
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,640
Like 15 years ago, like no one 
cared what you were wearing. 

690
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,200
You were just running. 
Yeah, most people would just put

691
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,440
like, you get Target brand stuff
and if you're a little more 

692
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,080
serious, maybe you picked up 
something, you know, from a 

693
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,480
brand of the shoe that you liked
or you just happened to get at a

694
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:11,840
race or you desperately needed 
some. 

695
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:13,280
We got to bring back the Target 
brand. 

696
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,960
Is that is that still going? 
I don't know they. 

697
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,320
Used to have the running shorts 
and like I was they did yeah 

698
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,480
like and they weren't bad. 
I I that's what I worked out in 

699
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,440
and ran in for all of my runs up
until. 

700
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:28,679
College that was solid. 
This is ATMI, but I'm going to 

701
00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:30,520
share this anyway. 
Before I knew anything about 

702
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,480
running, yeah, I had a lot of 
Target brand shorts and I didn't

703
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:39,239
understand what that inner liner
was and I didn't have the how do

704
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,719
I say this? 
Politically, shouldn't we I. 

705
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,880
Didn't have the, I didn't have 
the durability to tolerate. 

706
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:47,040
I also didn't know what it was 
for. 

707
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,000
So I would cut it out and then 
wear underwear underneath until 

708
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,800
somebody finally after your ears
was like, you know, that's you 

709
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:54,280
don't need to wear underwear 
because there's a liner. 

710
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:55,440
And I'm like, what the hell is a
liner? 

711
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,080
I'm like, oh, the thing, I'm 
like cutting in half. 

712
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,000
And then I was working at 
Fettright when I realized I was 

713
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,280
working at a running store. 
When I realized this, I'm like, 

714
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:06,960
oh dude, I need to stop doing 
that. 

715
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,560
And then actually tricen as 
liner and that didn't go well 

716
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,440
because it shows the wrong 
shorts that didn't have a good 

717
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,640
liner that matched me and then 
finally figured it out and 

718
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,840
shouts Brooks first company that
made comfortable running shorts 

719
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,880
that did not chafe at all. 
And I still remember that and I 

720
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,360
have much, much wider variety 
because I've tested a lot more 

721
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:27,600
things and figured out what 
works for me. 

722
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,480
But that's all we do. 
Doctors of split shorts go to 

723
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,080
anyway. 
So yes, I'm totally a buy. 

724
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:36,880
Wow, this this question went a 
little bit. 

725
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,600
I'm totally a buy that is harder
than ever before to select A 

726
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,480
shoe for a new runner. 
I'm still going to stand by 

727
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,960
that. 
Every new runner should stay in 

728
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,320
the traditional neutral trainer 
category. 

729
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,400
I think the try to choose shoes 
that have been there for years. 

730
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,120
I think that's where you should 
start. 

731
00:35:53,720 --> 00:35:59,840
Or a six Cumulus Nimbus, your 
Nike Pegasus Vimero, your Brooks

732
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,720
Ghost Glycerin, your Saucony 
ride triumph like your Mizuno 

733
00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:07,800
writer. 
Well, they kind of moved away 

734
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,400
from it. 
This guy, Yeah, Never mind the 

735
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,960
writer. 
The writer for sure, you know, 

736
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,440
all of those, those kind of more
shoes that have been around that

737
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,080
have a large number after them. 
That's where you should start. 

738
00:36:21,240 --> 00:36:23,640
That's you know, you know, if 
you need some stability and you 

739
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,840
find that you've had some kind 
of history of that your ASICS 

740
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,840
GT, your socket guide, your, you
know, whatever. 

741
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,720
But your tried and true trainers
is where all new runners should 

742
00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:34,560
start. 
And then once you figure things 

743
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:36,640
out, then you can diversify. 
But you've got to get running 

744
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,240
experience. 
But most people don't listen to 

745
00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:41,600
us and most people don't. 
I mean, you know, we, we did 

746
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,280
just hit 30K subscribers on 
YouTube, which is kind of a big 

747
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:45,000
deal. 
So Paddle. 

748
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:46,840
Back for that one. 
But you know, that's still a 

749
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,320
relatively small YouTube 
channel, so we're trying to get 

750
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,400
get information out. 
But when you talk about what 

751
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,280
you're talking about with like 
the run clubs and what people 

752
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,360
are actually seeing what's being
advertised them, whether it's 

753
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,440
from an actual company or those 
surrounding them, you know, hey,

754
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,040
you need an alpha fly, you need 
an endorphin elite, you need a 

755
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,600
vapor fly, you need a cloud boom
strike for your easy runs. 

756
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:11,240
That could be very confusing and
and very like a very weird 

757
00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:15,360
stimulus to go from like wearing
a pair of vans to wearing a pair

758
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,600
of like super super racers. 
So I think. 

759
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,560
And I can't tell you how many 
times I've heard as well. 

760
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,200
Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you 
off, but people that buy it 

761
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,440
because they hear it's the best 
running shoe on the market, 

762
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:28,560
right? 
That's just what they hear. 

763
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:29,960
They like it. 
That's the marketing. 

764
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:31,120
Oh, this is the best running 
shoe. 

765
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,000
So I just went and got it and 
well, it's like you've never run

766
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:35,440
before. 
Now you're just running and 

767
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,280
alpha flies every run or vapor 
flies or whatever like. 

768
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,680
Yeah, not understanding that 
these are tools and there's 

769
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,280
different tools for different 
types of runs, different types 

770
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,680
of runners, and, you know, you 
need to find what's actually 

771
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:50,720
best for you where you are. 
But people just want the best 

772
00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:54,040
shoe and you know, that's 
everybody's going to be wearing 

773
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:55,600
a certain 1 and that's what they
think. 

774
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,080
And then they're like, ah, why 
does my hip hurt? 

775
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:58,800
Why does my back hurt? 
Why does my ankle hurt? 

776
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,440
It's like, because you're using 
a tool that's not appropriate 

777
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:02,880
for you. 
I'm going to keep using this 

778
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,120
analogy. 
You probably heard this on the 

779
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,840
podcast last week, but it's like
the me, I'm a terrible driver. 

780
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:09,560
You know, I grew up in the 
Northwest. 

781
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,160
Not to stereotype, but we triply
drive a little slower. 

782
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,280
You know, I've been in LA for a 
while. 

783
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,600
So you add driving a little 
slower, driving a lot faster and

784
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,360
you get this weird dual 
personality. 

785
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:26,360
But I it's like as a newer, not 
great driver, not newer, but not

786
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:31,680
great driver, I should not be 
driving a Maserati or a McLaren 

787
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,640
through a Costco parking lot. 
That's not the car I need to go 

788
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:38,080
shopping. 
OK, that's it. 

789
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,680
I need a very specific track. 
I need experience, I need to 

790
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,880
work up to that kind of thing, 
but I just need my Hunter Fit. 

791
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:45,800
That's all I need. 
It's small. 

792
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:47,360
I'm thinking like, not the 
fastest thing. 

793
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,160
Corolla. 
Yeah, Civic Corolla, that's 

794
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,120
that's me, that's what you. 
Yeah, that. 

795
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,320
No, I mean, that's I mean, it's 
the car I have, but like a 

796
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:54,800
Civic, a Corolla, You have a 
fit. 

797
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:55,600
Yeah, I have a. 
Fit. 

798
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:57,360
Is it the same car that when you
were down here? 

799
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:58,440
Yeah, Drove. 
It all the way up here. 

800
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,040
I guess that is a fit. 
Yeah, yeah, I don't. 

801
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,200
I had a. 
Civic, you met me when I had a. 

802
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:02,560
Civic. 
Oh, wait. 

803
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,360
No, no, you did have this. 
I did have a Civic. 

804
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:05,920
It was blue, right? 
Great. 

805
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:07,440
No, no, it was great. 
Oh, my God. 

806
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:08,760
Probably. 
It looked blue because it was so

807
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:10,840
bashed. 
Up bad. 

808
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,480
It looked it was blue because it
was bruised with how bad I 

809
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,880
treated that poor car. 
No, an old coach man had a blue 

810
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:19,280
civic. 
Yeah, you had a grey civic. 

811
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:23,040
I remember now my car was 
bruised, probably getting into 

812
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:24,800
things. 
That was a long time ago. 

813
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:25,960
Now it was. 
Long ago. 

814
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,320
Yeah, yeah, that we are dating 
ourselves on that one. 

815
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,760
But yet you don't. 
I don't need a Ferrari or a 

816
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,760
Maclaurin or one of those cars 
to do like daily shopping or my 

817
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,520
my daily commute. 
That's not appropriate for the 

818
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,720
tool that I need. 
And I think shoes are similar 

819
00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:43,360
that, you know, if I was going 
to go to a racetrack and I was 

820
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,200
going to start taking driving 
more seriously and I was really 

821
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,520
going to start training that 
yeah, that would make, you know,

822
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:52,480
if I had the funds or if I had 
the abilities, you know, that 

823
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,800
might make sense. 
Maybe I might try a little more 

824
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,600
sporty car 1st and not go to the
absolute all out. 

825
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,240
But you need to find a tool 
that's most appropriate for you.

826
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:04,800
And I don't think necessarily 
the quote UN quote best is 

827
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,400
necessarily the best for. 
The new runner for sure. 

828
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:11,880
So I'm going to stand with the 
buy on that because of the 

829
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,080
marketing, because of the 
pressure, because of social 

830
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,160
media, what people see instead 
of the old, hey, I'm going to go

831
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,280
to a local running store and 
just try some stuff on and see 

832
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:20,400
what works. 
So I'm going to go to Dick's 

833
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,680
Sporting Goods and just try the 
the new runner's shoes, the 

834
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:25,840
daily trainers and just see 
what's comfortable and get used 

835
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:27,600
to this sport. 
That was not long. 

836
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:29,520
Oh my God that was like 8 by. 
A cell. 

837
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:30,960
I thought it was cool. 
Yeah, all. 

838
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:32,280
Right. 
All the way. 

839
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:33,840
I'm going to add a little bonus.
Not a buy. 

840
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:39,240
Sell well, I guess in the event 
you were just doing a run club 

841
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,240
and they were meeting at a 
place, what kind of place would 

842
00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:44,400
you want them to meet at that 
you're going to be hanging out 

843
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,560
afterwards? 
A little bonus question there. 

844
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,600
This is very biased, but a 
running store. 

845
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,400
Oh hey, I mean, there are. 
We'll run Republic shout out 

846
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,920
run. 
Republic foot traffic does this 

847
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:56,480
as well. 
Running Center Redlands has done

848
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,520
that a couple times I believe. 
Portland Running company also 

849
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,600
does this just to shout out all 
the locals. 

850
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:07,560
Yeah, I think local running 
stores is a cool place to be 

851
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,400
because then you got some. 
If you need anything, anything's

852
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,240
right there. 
I got to give a shout out to 

853
00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:14,760
Deckers has done that. 
They started doing that sweet 

854
00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:18,480
Aaron Potts shout out. 
Aaron has started some of that 

855
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,720
and they've been doing a great 
job with getting that moving. 

856
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,880
Also, David, I got to, I got to 
like pick your brain. 

857
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:25,600
We got some people that you 
know, that we should get on the 

858
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:27,240
podcast at some point thinking 
about that. 

859
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:28,600
Definitely. 
All right. 

860
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:32,600
Last question, last buy or sell?
Do you want to do this one? 

861
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,440
Sure. 
Yeah, Yeah, this one's a little 

862
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:39,080
bit of a two-part, you know, 
it's kind of a more generic, but

863
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:44,360
this next buy sell is going to 
be this idea of crossover shoes 

864
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:48,440
and then this idea of athleisure
type lines coming into the 

865
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,760
running market. 
And So what we mean by that when

866
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,080
we look at a crossover shoe, and
I think it's probably the most 

867
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,160
clear with Hoka in this last 
year, they made the Transport 

868
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,440
and the Transport X. 
But you also have some of the 

869
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:04,120
shoes from on as well and how 
they are marketed as with like, 

870
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,040
let's say the Cloud Swift being 
like a quote, UN quote, urban 

871
00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:11,320
runner, commuter kind of shoe. 
You have your Cloud flow, the 

872
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,800
Cloud X, you know, the regular 
on Cloud, like these shoes that 

873
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:19,000
you can be active in, but like 
they're still kind of leaning 

874
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,680
towards the casual wear. 
Another one that's kind of 

875
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:24,480
coming up, another Decker's 
brand Anu. 

876
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,960
And then we kind of brought up 
kind of when we're spitballing 

877
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:33,000
and brainstorming Adidas Ultra 
Boost to some degree Nike Free, 

878
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:35,400
because you just don't really 
see that in a quote UN quote 

879
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:39,120
running space anymore. 
But it's still out there and 

880
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,880
people still wear it, but and 
you can still do things in it. 

881
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:43,280
So some people are still running
in it. 

882
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,240
So it's kind of like this 
crossover commuter kind of 

883
00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:47,880
everything little shoe. 
Yeah, I wouldn't. 

884
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,160
I would suggest running in the 
newest models, but that's a, 

885
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:51,200
that's a me thing. 
But. 

886
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:52,840
But that's kind of yeah, yeah, 
people do it. 

887
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,640
Yeah, this, you know, yeah. 
And then the other one, the 

888
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:57,640
athleisure lines. 
So like your Vioris, your 

889
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:02,160
Lululemon's Athletas, those 
types of companies. 

890
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,320
I, I have Patagonia written down
here. 

891
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,440
I, I feel like they've been in 
the trail running world just 

892
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,040
like long enough to where I feel
like they don't really fully 

893
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:15,880
count there, but like, but yeah,
these companies that are 

894
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,040
starting to like, OK, there's a 
market in the running space. 

895
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,320
Let's figure out a way to bridge
that gap. 

896
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,600
And if you are in the running 
space, let's figure out a way to

897
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,960
bridge that gap to be in the 
regular kind of commuter walking

898
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,320
type, everyday casual wear type 
market. 

899
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:36,640
So buy, sell on those becoming 
that becoming a market in the 

900
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:41,960
running sphere. 
I'm I don't know, I I don't know

901
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,320
if I necessarily have an 
opinion, to be honest, because I

902
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,560
don't, I don't see anything 
wrong. 

903
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:49,680
I'm going to approach this from 
a footwear standpoint. 

904
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:55,360
The the apparel part I have, I 
have like I'm a buy for just 

905
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,720
because why not, you know, 
Apparel's, you know, something 

906
00:43:58,720 --> 00:44:01,080
that that people fit so 
differently, even more did like 

907
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:05,160
the body and the proportions are
even more complex than running 

908
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:06,440
shoes. 
So I think why not? 

909
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,200
If you can create a space, go 
for it. 

910
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,120
Like there's a lot of stuff I 
got there's a lot. 

911
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,000
I think there's probably more 
apparel brands and they're even 

912
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,560
remotely close to footwear 
brands. 

913
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:16,320
Like there's tons out there. 
So if you want to jump in that 

914
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,800
market, go for it, right? 
You are going to need to create 

915
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:21,920
a name in a community, which I 
think some companies have 

916
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,640
actually done super, super, 
super well in terms of creating 

917
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,040
that culture around. 
I think Hoka and on are two that

918
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,720
have really done a great job of 
like going Hey, net, we also 

919
00:44:32,720 --> 00:44:35,880
make apparel like let's actually
create a culture around this. 

920
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:37,280
And I think they've done very 
well. 

921
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:41,560
So you see them so popular, not 
just about the I I don't running

922
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:43,880
isn't probably their biggest 
marketing share. 

923
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:45,600
They're like they're probably 
biggest market. 

924
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:50,120
Is the just the the athleisure 
or just The Walking stuff? 

925
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,080
Just because you I see them 
everywhere. 

926
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,400
Hoka and on are probably the 
most common. 

927
00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:56,840
Like if I'm going to Costco, 
which I'm just saying, say went 

928
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,720
there today. 
That's the most common thing I'm

929
00:44:59,720 --> 00:45:01,960
going to see on people's feet. 
I can't tell you how many cloud 

930
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:06,000
monsters I saw in the in Costco.
Like I saw tons that we were 

931
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:11,520
talking about the on cloud next 
the I saw a ton of cloud flows, 

932
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:16,960
I saw a ton of HOKA transports, 
I saw a ton of HOKA bondies, 

933
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,120
obviously saw a couple Brooks, 
which is probably the next. 

934
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,920
One there, yeah, that's a great 
point. 

935
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:26,160
They're making suede Bondi and 
they're making like like that's 

936
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,560
that's becoming a thing, right. 
That is a is a lifestyle soy 

937
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,320
brand for a running shoe. 
So actually I'm going to put my 

938
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:36,320
foot down and say that I buy 
this for the reason from APT 

939
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:41,200
standpoint, not from a foot 
geek, because a lot of the shoes

940
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,800
out there are smoking garbage 
and they're not great. 

941
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,880
They're not they're not 
developed with like actual 

942
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,400
walking mechanics in mind. 
They're developed with people 

943
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:52,600
look at like just going, Oh, 
this looks cool, which I'm not 

944
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,280
judging. 
But with what I see on a daily 

945
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,160
basis, I'm like, I, I don't want
to have to see as many patients 

946
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,640
because I care about people and 
I don't want their feet to hurt.

947
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:05,320
So I don't see anything wrong 
with the footwear models being 

948
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,440
made into athleisure's shoes 
because I already know they've 

949
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:09,120
been better researched and 
better developed. 

950
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:14,440
So a, and it's what I wear too. 
Like I, I way prefer walking 

951
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,800
around in athletic shoes for 
casual wear. 

952
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:21,160
You know, a leather Bondi. 
I don't have one, but a leather 

953
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:25,600
Bondi makes total sense to me. 
A hookah transport like shoes 

954
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:29,640
that I know have some bio 
mechanics gone into them. 100% 

955
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:31,080
with this. 
And that's going to be the major

956
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,280
market share honestly, for a lot
of these companies more than 

957
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:35,960
running. 
So I'm a definite buy on this 

958
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,080
stuff because it means that 
people are wearing inherently 

959
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:41,040
better designed footwear, which 
I think is great, which I hope 

960
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,400
means that people have more 
comfort. 

961
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:44,600
They do better where there 
doesn't. 

962
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:48,800
I don't know, apparel stuff. 
I don't know why not, but I'm 

963
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:50,800
curious to hear your take on 
like what do you think? 

964
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:52,400
Because the apparel stuff, I 
don't know, I'm not as 

965
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,360
fashionable. 
I just wear whatever I have or I

966
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:57,880
wear on because on caught me and
I'm now like. 

967
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:00,080
On a parable person kind of in 
there. 

968
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,800
They, I mean, they definitely 
are, but I'm just saying that's 

969
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:06,040
like I either wear whatever 
we've gotten or wherever I have 

970
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,360
or I wear on stuff that I've 
picked up off eBay or there's 

971
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,080
they're like online sale rack, 
which we were talking about. 

972
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,200
But what do you think buy or 
sell on this stuff? 

973
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:15,760
I'm a buy. 
Yeah, yeah. 

974
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:19,200
I'm a buy on both. 
I think it's kind of a fun 

975
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:23,040
category, and I do think I used 
the word bridge earlier. 

976
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,720
That was a good word. 
Semi intentionally, yeah, mainly

977
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:29,480
because it was a very, it was a 
dichotomy. 

978
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:34,040
It was it's a lifestyle shoe 
leather, low to the ground, 

979
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,880
flat, whatever. 
Like it's like or it's a suede 

980
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,920
like the kind of skate shoe type
thing that you would picture or 

981
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:44,760
a street shoe on someone or even
let's say a dress shoe even. 

982
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:47,560
And that line is getting much 
more muddy. 

983
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,280
And I think for the better, like
you said, there's a lot more 

984
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,680
options out there for people and
things that are a lot more 

985
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:55,200
comfortable that you can stand 
and walk in for hours. 

986
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:57,240
You know, if you're going to 
Disneyland and you want to wear 

987
00:47:57,240 --> 00:47:59,800
something that still is 
functional, but it looks good, 

988
00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:02,920
like those shoes do a pretty 
good job of that. 

989
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:06,680
And I could think of a couple of
trips now specifically where I 

990
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:10,640
have worn the Cloud Runner, too.
I like walking in that shoe. 

991
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:13,240
I took that with me to Anaheim, 
you know, when we did go to 

992
00:48:13,240 --> 00:48:17,680
Disneyland, case in point, I've 
taken the Transport X with me to

993
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:20,680
New Mexico for the same reason. 
I'm going to be walking and 

994
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:22,520
doing things. 
I'm going to the Balloon Fiesta.

995
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:25,720
I'm going to be on my feet a 
lot, but I still want to be able

996
00:48:25,720 --> 00:48:27,760
to walk and do things. 
And then like I can still run in

997
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:31,360
the shoe if I need to. 
And if I can only pack one shoe 

998
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,240
and I know I'm not going to be 
running fast, you know, then I 

999
00:48:34,240 --> 00:48:36,280
can take a shoe that can do a 
little bit of everything and 

1000
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,840
still have it look aesthetically
pleasing or relatively 

1001
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,000
aesthetic. 
Like, you know, that's always a 

1002
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:44,760
depending on the person, whether
something is quote UN quote 

1003
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:48,720
aesthetically pleasing, but or 
even something like an ultra 

1004
00:48:48,720 --> 00:48:52,000
Boost, you know, like I think 
they did a great job of getting 

1005
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,160
themselves in the fashion market
and then they kind of had to 

1006
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:55,920
dial it back where they're like,
OK, we're getting a little too 

1007
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,640
far into that lane. 
We got to keep some running 

1008
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,600
routes here. 
And now they've kind of pulled 

1009
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:03,800
hard, like with the ultra boost 
light in those types of shoes, 

1010
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:05,960
like which are good running 
shoes. 

1011
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,640
Like like I liked that shoe, so 
now it's another shoe that you 

1012
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,560
can use for multiple uses. 
So I'm all for it. 

1013
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:16,040
You know, I think I think it's 
great. 

1014
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:18,840
As far as the apparel goes, I 
think it's great too. 

1015
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:20,960
It's more options. 
A lot of those companies are 

1016
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:24,200
already putting out good apparel
for whatever their respective 

1017
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:26,840
uses were before. 
They're using nice materials. 

1018
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,880
It feels good. 
I'm not going to lie. 

1019
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:34,400
The racing singlet that I had 
made shout out Greggy Tahara for

1020
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,120
the doctors of running a blue 
collar running singlet that I 

1021
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:38,320
have. 
That's a Lulu singlet. 

1022
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,080
You know, like my racing singlet
is a Lululemon singlet. 

1023
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,920
And I did some trial and error 
around on the market to see, you

1024
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:50,880
know, companies that were making
relatively blank and not busy 

1025
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,320
design so that I could have 
something put onto it. 

1026
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:58,640
And from a price comfort, 
everything standpoint, like I 

1027
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,160
actually ended up going with 
that singlet and that's what I 

1028
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:03,240
preferred. 
And so that's what I ended up 

1029
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:05,760
going through with on the order 
there. 

1030
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:09,800
So yeah, I mean, I think it's 
good. 

1031
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,600
And then also like if you want 
to run and eat tacos afterwards,

1032
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:16,960
like if you're meeting up at a 
Taco place for your run club, 

1033
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:19,920
you can still look good, run and
look good. 

1034
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:26,520
If you're, I'm not going to lie,
I've actually, I've hit some 

1035
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:30,120
hard long runs and tempos in 
that Vori pocket tea that I 

1036
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:31,760
have. 
I've had that thing for years 

1037
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,760
now, so I think that's fun. 
You know, it's like it's running

1038
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:39,440
apparel, but it looks, it just 
looks a little bit more casual. 

1039
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,360
I like the stuff that like that 
Run Rabbit has, for example or. 

1040
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:45,480
They have some great stuff there
I'm. 

1041
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:50,200
Forgetting the brand's name that
they have some really nice of 

1042
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:52,520
the high crunchy, which is a 
favorite, which I pretty much 

1043
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:53,360
rabbit. 
Yeah. 

1044
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:58,000
Well, yeah. 
So I wear that stuff to teach 

1045
00:50:58,000 --> 00:50:59,680
all the time. 
The students have no idea that 

1046
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:01,760
I'm technically running, wearing
running apparel. 

1047
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:04,320
And then if I need to get a run 
in really quick, I just, you 

1048
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:06,480
know, have running shorts 
underneath, go for a run, don't 

1049
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:08,080
have to change a shirt and just 
go right into it. 

1050
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:09,600
So it's been, I've been doing 
that for years. 

1051
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,440
It is awesome and. 
It's a great and it's a great 

1052
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:14,480
crossover. 
That's another great example 

1053
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,680
there where it's a shirt that 
you can wear casually and it 

1054
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:19,520
looks very casual. 
Dude, I I'm going. 

1055
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:22,040
To and then you're like, OK, let
me go RIP a 10 mile run in this 

1056
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:23,640
thing. 
OK, I'm going to I'm going to go

1057
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:25,960
back to what I said. 
A void that needs to be filled 

1058
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:30,840
is the like semi professional 
apparel that also is running 

1059
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:32,720
apparel. 
So I can make sure that we have 

1060
00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:36,560
like professional clinic, like I
can do go do a presentation 

1061
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:39,600
somewhere and then all I have to
do is change it into shorts or 

1062
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:41,120
something, you know, and I'm, 
I'm ready to go. 

1063
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:43,560
Or like I could just run in a 
suit or so I know there's a 

1064
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:46,040
company out there that does 
that, but I want to see more of 

1065
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:50,640
that of like the like business 
up top, like short shorts blow. 

1066
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:55,920
Like I want to see that. 
But hope that episode was 

1067
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,040
interesting for you, because 
that went some very interesting.

1068
00:51:58,040 --> 00:51:59,280
I thought we thought this was 
going to be short. 

1069
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,080
We thought like what like 20-30 
minutes tops and here we are 50 

1070
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:04,360
plus minutes. 
So there's another buy and sell 

1071
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:05,800
episode. 
We really hope you enjoyed this.

1072
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,280
As always please comment below 
if there's any thoughts or 

1073
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:10,800
response you have. 
We do take our best effort try 

1074
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:11,920
to read it. 
We don't always get a chance to 

1075
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:15,200
respond because this is one of 
the many things we do on top of 

1076
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:19,560
working professionally and at 
least one job if not many, and 

1077
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:21,360
so we enjoy this. 
We are sometimes a little slow. 

1078
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:23,680
You can always e-mail us. 
A lot of this stuff is always 

1079
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:26,000
inspired by those who are asking
questions and we do have our 

1080
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,280
mailbag episodes that we do as 
frequently as possible try to 

1081
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:29,720
respond and get you good 
information. 

1082
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:32,440
If you want to try to find more 
on us, there's always a 

1083
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:34,160
different spots. 
Obviously, as I said, our 

1084
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:37,480
YouTube just hit 30 K, so you 
can go check out a lot of our 

1085
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,440
content there. 
There's also lots of things on 

1086
00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:44,760
social media, including on 
LinkedIn, on Instagram, on 

1087
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:47,920
Facebook, and of course, the OG 
for all this stuff is going to 

1088
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:49,360
be on the website. 
We're going to see the majority 

1089
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:52,320
already of new content, be it 
reviews, be it Monday shake outs

1090
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,800
and links to all the different 
stuff that we are doing and 

1091
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,400
trying to understand more about 
the things we put on our feet. 

1092
00:52:57,680 --> 00:52:59,800
One of the big things we hope 
you take away from this is the 

1093
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:02,000
fact that we really care about 
what is happening to you. 

1094
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:05,040
We hope this information is 
helpful, and we hope it helps 

1095
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,720
you make better decisions about 
what you're putting on the feet.