1 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:12,000 Recovering from an injury can take really intentional ways to 2 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,080 return to your running and sometimes that means decreasing 3 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:16,520 the amount of stress on your body. 4 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,960 The lever movement system is something that I have used as a 5 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:23,160 physical therapist with patients and also use personally when I 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:25,840 have been returning from injuries or guiding people in 7 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,400 the return back because it can offload some of the stress that 8 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,320 the body takes with running, allowing you to do a really 9 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,800 intentional and sequential return without overloading the 10 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:37,880 tissues. One of the great parts about it 11 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,960 is that it's a completely mobile device and it can be connected 12 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,760 to pretty much any treadmill and the affordability is so low, 13 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:47,880 I've had multiple patients be able to purchase it on their own 14 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,600 where sometimes offloading systems can cost 10s of 15 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,120 thousands of dollars. The lever movement system 16 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,800 actually starts under 1000. And so if you are looking to try 17 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:00,560 to find a way to continue to return back to running smart or 18 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,920 just to manage some of the little niggles that come along 19 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,519 with running, but keep your running volume, I would take a 20 00:01:05,519 --> 00:01:07,160 look at the lever Movement system. 21 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,560 So if you want to learn more, you can go to levermovement.com. 22 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,480 And if you end up purchasing, you can get 20% off using the 23 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:20,120 code Dor 20. Hello everybody, and welcome to 24 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:23,120 the Doctors of Running podcast where we, a group of doctors of 25 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,400 physical therapy, discuss the art and science of running and 26 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:28,200 the stuff that we put on our feet today at the round table, 27 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:30,520 we have the founder of Doctors of Running, doctor Matthew 28 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:32,760 Klein, Doctor David Salas and myself. 29 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:37,600 I'm Nathan Brown and we are going to be diving into a topic 30 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,520 about a shoe company. We are going to be breaking down 31 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:45,400 kind of the origin story of this shoe company going into some of 32 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,680 the basic tenants of theirs, looking at their foam compounds, 33 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:52,920 looking at their general fit, looking at durability and just 34 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:54,760 symmetrics. And after we talk about some of 35 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,120 those questions and comparing where they're at compared to 36 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:00,600 other brands, then we're going to go into their specific lineup 37 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,880 and try to give a way to breakdown what they offer in a 38 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,200 cohesive way that can kind of organize where all of these 39 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,680 shoes may fit and wait what you may look at one for versus 40 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:12,760 another. So before we do that though, we 41 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,000 want to definitely talk about what we currently have in for 42 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,960 testing. So this is our in for testing 43 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,360 segment where we talk about what we've got on our feet right now. 44 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,800 This is powered by Scratch Labs. Matt, what have you been testing 45 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:26,200 lately and how's that been going? 46 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,400 So the newest thing I've been testing right now has been the 47 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:35,240 tier Maverick, which I honestly thought this is going to be a 48 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,120 gimmick and I might really enjoying it. 49 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,000 To be honest. I've I've really enjoyed the 50 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:40,680 miles. I've already got like 35 miles 51 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:44,440 on my pair heels still intact. Surprisingly. 52 00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:46,880 I've got some people might hear me complain about this. 53 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,160 I've got some Achilles tendon issues right now. 54 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,280 They're actually doing really, really well and I was very 55 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,280 worried about going into a 6mm drop and the rocker on this 56 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:55,760 thing has been absolutely awesome. 57 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,720 It's great for long runs. It's great for up tempo things. 58 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:00,760 It's not really good at Andrew and I kind of a similar 59 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,640 experience where it's not really good for running fast, but like 60 00:03:03,640 --> 00:03:06,720 up tempo efforts, long runs, it's been really good. 61 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,600 So I'm I'm excited to get more miles in these and get a review 62 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:10,560 out. So they've been solid. 63 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,920 I've been really impressed another shoe so we don't have a 64 00:03:13,920 --> 00:03:16,240 ton of new stuff right now. I've been getting miles on some 65 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,720 other shoes trying to get 100 mile review on the Saucony 66 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,480 Hurricane 25. Mostly good is one of the only 67 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,520 stability shoes that actually has a super foam in it. 68 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:27,000 I'm up to 75 miles right now should hopefully get that soon 69 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,920 and the outsole is still intact for the most part, but some 70 00:03:29,920 --> 00:03:32,600 other things with that and then the final thing that just came 71 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,400 in today and I've gotten made fun of for be excited for this 72 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,800 shoe I'm. Very mad. 73 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:38,680 Thank you. Excited. 74 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,720 About that, people that might get excited for this, and I will 75 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:48,000 certainly be doing a comparison review with the Brooks Ghost Max 76 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:52,080 is going to be the Saucony Echelon 10, which actually 77 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:53,280 already been out there for a while. 78 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:56,680 It's not a performance shoe. It's just one of the true stable 79 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:58,920 neutral shoes out there and one of the few orthotic friendly 80 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:01,520 shoes. And so, yeah, this just came 81 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,160 today and I'm very excited to get some miles on it because I'm 82 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,600 a nerd and so. Do you think that line you think 83 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:12,000 that lands closer to the Max like ghost Max 3 stuff than it 84 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,960 is to like the dyad or something else? 85 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:22,320 I version one of the ghost Max no version three yes. 86 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,920 I think when I step in feel I would say this isn't. 87 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,280 I wouldn't say it's close to the dyad just cause the dyad had 88 00:04:28,280 --> 00:04:32,080 such a clunky heel and I never suggested this a running shoe 89 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:33,880 whereas this can be ash. Can. 90 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:35,440 Run shoe. It can run, yeah. 91 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,160 Ash the dyad. I like the Echelon. 92 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:42,000 Yeah, so, but Ghost Max Kit 3 can also run. 93 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:43,880 Not they're not the fastest, but they can run. 94 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,960 So that's what I'm wearing. It's funny you bring up the 95 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,760 Echelon now, but I'm thinking back to when I was working more 96 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:55,520 often in the clinic versus teaching, and when I was working 97 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:59,280 with an older population with balance difficulties. 98 00:04:59,280 --> 00:05:03,680 I actually had a lot of people utilize the Echelon because it's 99 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,800 just a completely wide platform. There's nothing that is pushing 100 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,320 you anywhere. Very stable shoe that also 101 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:11,920 allows you to operate on some rocker. 102 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,600 So I'd have a specific person in my mind that they ended up 103 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,240 getting that shoe and it made a big difference for them, but not 104 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,720 for running by any means. But it it helped them stay 105 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,040 functional. Some of their needs. 106 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,360 Yeah. Well, I'll go next because I 107 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,280 also have been testing the well, I'm going to say it now. 108 00:05:29,280 --> 00:05:32,720 I was saying TYR. I've always said TYR for tier, 109 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,040 but it's tier. And I just looked it up when you 110 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,720 said that, Matt, and it's about like tiers of performance, like 111 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,040 upper tier is part of their is part of their thing. 112 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:41,760 Yeah. Matt What? 113 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,080 The only reason? Did I actually say it right? 114 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:46,800 Yeah, I know. Let it be. 115 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,240 Known to the listeners. I said something named. 116 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:51,280 They said the name, right? Correct. 117 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:53,960 No taken. How do you pronounce it? 118 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:56,600 Kayano? Just kidding. 119 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:59,320 Is that right? OK, Yeah. 120 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,640 Kayano. Yeah, so the old, the old, I was 121 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,920 definitely calling it TYR. One of my Co faculty members, 122 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,800 her daughter is sponsored by Tier and so I heard her say it. 123 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:11,400 I'm like I'm assuming you know how to say. 124 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:13,040 She's swimmer. Yeah, swimmer. 125 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:14,480 Yeah. I I think of it more as a 126 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,320 swimming branch. So I I got the box and Jan is 127 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:21,280 like, that's a it's a swimming company, right? 128 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,840 I was like, well, yeah. So this is kind of their first 129 00:06:23,840 --> 00:06:28,120 foray and I think that my experience, I have one run in 130 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:29,640 it. So take it for what it's worth. 131 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,560 These are initial impressions fit wise. 132 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,480 I'm really excited about what they've chosen to do with their 133 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:39,400 fit. It is very topo like in its toe 134 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,480 box. It's got a very wide upper, very 135 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,320 snug though through the midfoot, secure heel. 136 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,720 I really liked the fit. Maybe a little bit lower volume, 137 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,840 like a little short maybe. But I I am not looking to size 138 00:06:53,840 --> 00:06:55,640 up. I've got a size 9 and it's 139 00:06:55,640 --> 00:07:00,520 fitting me really, really well. I think Andrea sized up for her. 140 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:05,240 She went up a half size so I think she'll get her miles on 141 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,880 and give her review. But for me, I have loved what 142 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,320 they're doing with fit. I think the foam on first run 143 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,000 feels solid. For a first offering of a shoe 144 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:18,680 that cost $150.00. It definitely like is going to 145 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,920 level up itself in comparison to other shoes on the market like I 146 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:25,520 could. I'm not saying that these shoes 147 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:29,160 run the same, but in terms of performance quality, you're I 148 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:33,640 would say it definitely lines up with a Nova blast, which I have 149 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,480 loved that shoe. But I think that the foam feel 150 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,720 is there. The overall geometry seems to be 151 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,120 there. The fit is definitely there. 152 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,640 And so I think that they have a really for good first offering 153 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,520 and I'm excited to see what it feels like with more miles, But 154 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:53,600 I'm I'm overall impressed and excited to see what they end up 155 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,920 doing. David, what have you been 156 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,880 testing? Yeah, so I'll start off with the 157 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:01,040 one that everyone's talking about. 158 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:06,000 This is here, Maverick. So I've been very impressed by 159 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,040 it as well from initial impressions. 160 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,080 And I feel like you hit it spot on with the fit. 161 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,200 It's very topo like wide toe box. 162 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,720 I didn't really have any like issues with the volume, but I 163 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:17,600 did feel like the midfoot was more snug. 164 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:20,160 The heel is decently accommodating. 165 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,600 Like it's pretty wide, but like it locks down really well. 166 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,640 I didn't have any issues with like movement of my foot and the 167 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:28,600 rocker just feels really dialed in. 168 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,520 And I think I was telling Klein this in a personal message when 169 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:37,400 I first got it, but well, the group chat, it reminded me a lot 170 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,240 of in in a different way. Not a racing shoe, but like the 171 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:45,160 Evo Pro one in that it relied a lot on its weight and it's 172 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,800 really light compared to its competition where I felt like 173 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,080 the foam. It bottoms out a little bit at 174 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:55,080 those top paces, but it really feels nice. 175 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:59,400 I mean, this is like a 44mm shoe in stack height and it's like in 176 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:03,120 the high sevens from a weight standpoint, which is crazy. 177 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,040 So it kind of just like you can kind of forget about it and just 178 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,840 fall asleep and go into rhythm. And it's really nice for that. 179 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,760 I feel like you don't get the bounciest ride out of it, but 180 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,960 it's really light and the cushion it's it falls right in 181 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,000 the middle. Like it's just kind of like it's 182 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:21,920 not overly firm, It's not overly soft. 183 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:23,880 You just go to sleep and get into rhythm. 184 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,760 And that was like the first thing I noticed and I was like, 185 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,200 this, this could be a killer for like other shoes on the market, 186 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,280 especially being priced at 1:50 for the stack it has and the 187 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,400 weight it has. What's? 188 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:37,760 That I have. My scale right here is 8 and my 189 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,200 size 10 is 8 oz so solid. Definitely very large. 190 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:46,440 Size ten 8.0 yeah, yeah, I think their specs were like 7.7 or 191 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,920 something, which would be close. I'm a size 9 and that's what it 192 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,560 was for me too. I was going to say in the boxes 193 00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:56,560 that they sent for people who they're like sending out for 194 00:09:56,560 --> 00:10:01,120 wear testing, they included like a kitchen scale to weigh it on. 195 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,360 And my first gut is like, well, they fixed this scale to be 196 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:05,760 whatever weight they want it to be. 197 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,240 So I'm using my own. And it was it was the same so 198 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:09,640 that. Was super scary. 199 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:11,600 It's a scary. It's like everybody's is going 200 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,960 to be 7.7 size twelve 7.7. That's your own scale. 201 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,280 Yeah, I was like psyched because I'm like this thing is starting 202 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,040 to get older, replace the batteries a few times and like I 203 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:22,600 might need. I'm not going to lie, I was kind 204 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,520 of excited to get a new scale. Yeah, that was that was cool. 205 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:32,960 Anyways, it provides good cushioning, very lightweight, 206 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,320 not the most responsive, but it's a good rocker with a good 207 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,280 fit. So initial impressions were very 208 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:40,200 good. The other shoe that I was 209 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,960 surprised, I had very good initial impressions. 210 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,680 I wasn't that surprised actually, but the Ultra Olympus 211 00:10:46,680 --> 00:10:50,960 275, very sure. Footed on foot. 212 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:54,720 Yeah, this thing feels very stable for a trail shoe, and 213 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,600 trail shoes already normally feel a little bit more stable 214 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,160 just because of the nature of what you're doing, but it's got 215 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,720 a very wide platform under foot. The four foot feels good. 216 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,480 The rocker feels good, especially for a zero drop shoe. 217 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,800 It doesn't feel like I'm slapping the ground very much. 218 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,640 I mean, granted, I'm used to having a drop, so it did feel a 219 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:16,800 little bit awkward at first. I'm not normally someone that 220 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:20,360 gravitates towards 0 drop shoes, but the second I got a couple 221 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,040 miles into my run, fell asleep, it was good. 222 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,120 Traction held up quite well. We just had some rain, you know, 223 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:28,600 rocks, everything. It was good. 224 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,320 The lugs aren't super deep, but the Vibra mega grip, they 225 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,360 performed quite well. And then last but not least. 226 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,800 Can I say one thing on that? Shoe three, Yeah, What's up? 227 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,240 Yeah. So on the Olympus 275, I've 228 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,240 taken that on a number of hikes, something that I appreciated 229 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,760 about. Well, first, it's very heavy. 230 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:47,720 It's not like a lightweight, it's heavy trail shoots. 231 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:49,480 It's a it's a heavy, it's a heavy shoe. 232 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:53,560 It's bulky, but it's very sturdy and very reliable on a foot, 233 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,560 yeah. But the I I've been really 234 00:11:56,560 --> 00:11:59,640 appreciating trail shoes that build in a little bit of a Gator 235 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,240 for you. It just I've had with the trail 236 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:04,720 running that. I was talking about Gators 237 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,480 before. Yeah, it will cuz the Tecton X3 238 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,200 has one cuz it's just like a sock that goes a little higher. 239 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,000 But I've had an I've been doing a little bit more trail this 240 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,280 year. Not a ton of trail cuz it's 241 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,760 harder for me to get to. But when I have, I've had more 242 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:21,160 like rocks popping into my shoe because of the type of trails 243 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:24,080 that we have. And so that makes a huge 244 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,520 difference to just have that and it becomes not a problem. 245 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:29,760 And I thought the upper was pretty comfortable in that shoe. 246 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,320 The Olympus 275. Cool, sorry, go into your last 247 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,720 shoe. No, you're good and the upper is 248 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:37,960 nice. It's I mean it's classic ultra. 249 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,000 You're not very roomy in the toe box. 250 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,760 It's pretty wide throughout like but it locks down well. 251 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,240 I had no issues and I took some pretty sharp turns on the trails 252 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,320 that I was running and I mean it was solid. 253 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:53,480 The only thing was the weight, like it's pretty heavy but for a 254 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:57,200 long day out it's good and if you have to walk or hike it's 255 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,640 it's smooth than that too. It's not like you can only run 256 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:01,720 in it, so. I actually like Crossover. 257 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,000 Yeah, Hyperion 3 is the other one. 258 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:09,200 So I was, I don't know, I I kind of had mixed feelings about it, 259 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:10,400 but it's good. It's nice. 260 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:12,880 It continues upon the Hyperion line. 261 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,880 So it's still a Hyperion, but it's DNA flash, lightweight 262 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,720 trainer, very neutral. They took away the GTS this 263 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,040 year, which I know we're all sad about because the GTS has been 264 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,680 on our awards list every year from its birth. 265 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,920 So we're sad about that. But it's a lightweight neutral 266 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,480 trainer, gets the job done. You can go a little bit fast, 267 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,600 you can go a little bit slow. It's just kind of one of those 268 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,160 versatile trainers. Sweet. 269 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:39,400 Well, that's what we've got on our feet. 270 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,840 This is again, powered and fueled by Scratch Labs. 271 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,880 If you're wanting to get any of their stuff for hydration or 272 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,680 nutrition, they've got their fall line out right now. 273 00:13:48,680 --> 00:13:50,960 So they have the apple cider stuff, which again, we like 274 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:54,440 actually to drink like you would hot apple cider more so than on 275 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,080 the run, but it is delicious. You can use our code doctor 276 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,840 running for 20% off your first order. 277 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,480 You wanted to say something. Bach would like to note, and I 278 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,200 have not tried this yet, that the apple cider mix was 279 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:08,920 sparkling water apparently is amazing. 280 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:10,840 I have not tried that but. Yeah, he did. 281 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:12,880 He did. Supposedly that's the thing, and 282 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,440 I trust his culinary expertise, so I'm just gonna put that out. 283 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:18,200 There used to actually write, yeah. 284 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:22,720 Culinary pieces, yeah. I think he would be too humble 285 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,040 to say, but I think he was kind of one of the leading food 286 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:30,280 bloggers in Columbia, SC area and LED a lot of neat 287 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:34,600 initiatives of highlighting and elevating certain areas of food. 288 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,920 Yeah, he's a boss. He's super cool. 289 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:39,600 All right. Well, let's move on to what we 290 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,920 are talking about tonight, which is actually the company of On 291 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,880 running. So On Running has been around 292 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:47,760 for a while, but we wanted to give a little bit of a 293 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:49,840 background. Then we're going to dive into 294 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:53,520 some of the kind of main things that define what is an on 295 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,640 running shoe and then we'll break down the specific lineup. 296 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,760 So Matt, do you want to give us a little bit of a history of on 297 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,840 running and kind of where they came from and what they're doing 298 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,720 now? Yeah, So on obviously was a 299 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:12,800 Swiss brand and it started back in 2010 with the idea of coming 300 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:14,480 out with a new type of cushioning. 301 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,720 So their idea was these this cloud tech and instead of having 302 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,320 mid, I mean, obviously it's made of a midsole material. 303 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,960 But instead of having just the midsole be what provides the 304 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,080 cushioning, they were going to create these holes essentially 305 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,320 the the cloud tech that was going to compress and move in 306 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:31,040 different directions to provide this cushioning. 307 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,120 One of the things, and I remember this because when they 308 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:34,880 came out, I was like, oh, that's interesting. 309 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,040 It's kind of like this, but this was before doctors running, but 310 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,200 I was really interested in the brand, what they were doing. 311 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:45,720 They I think at Fitright or Foot traffic, we had carried one for 312 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,680 a little bit and it was just still in the early, early era. 313 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,880 Their first running shoe. They actually, their first stuff 314 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:57,880 actually, they won an IISP award, IPOISP. 315 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:00,760 Oh my gosh, am I messing it up? That's fine. 316 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,200 Keep it rolling. They they won this word for like 317 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:07,280 new design and what at on with the cloud tech in a prototype 318 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,000 shoe. But the first actual running 319 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,160 shoe didn't come up until a little bit later called the on 320 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,360 cloud racer. So it was really started as 321 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,400 performance racing shoe. And I do remember that shoe and 322 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,200 the the this is before they actually really integrated all 323 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,000 the cloud tech together with how you see now where it's all 324 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,640 connected. But it was these separate little 325 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:26,840 pods that gave the weirdest feeling because they would not 326 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,760 only compress, they'd actually they would slide as well. 327 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,960 So the very unique sensation, the idea behind it, remember 328 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,920 that the Rep telling us this was it was supposed to deal with not 329 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:40,800 only horizontal ground reaction forces, but also, oh, sorry, 330 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,680 deal with vertical and horizontal ground reaction 331 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:45,040 forces. And that was their claim as the 332 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,280 clouds could move in additional directions. 333 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,520 So just fully compressing in more of that vertical direction. 334 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,080 Which films also do it Friday. But it was a really weird 335 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:57,920 sensation initially. And then I honestly kind of 336 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,080 moved on. They continue developing stuff 337 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:04,280 over the years until finally in I think twenty, 20/20/2019, they 338 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:08,400 partnered with Roger Federer and did a whole bunch of like casual 339 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,560 stuff. And now ironically, I feel like 340 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,359 they're, even though they do tons of performance stuff and 341 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,920 they've got pro running teams and all those things, I feel 342 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,000 like they're known best as a casual running or as a casual 343 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:20,920 brand. Like I see people walking in 344 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:25,839 those a lifestyle everywhere. And so they've done super well 345 00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:29,760 to the point that the company actually went public in 2021 and 346 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,720 their US headquarters, that the national that the world 347 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:37,440 headquarters is in Switzerland, but their US headquarters is in 348 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,240 Portland right now down that not too far away from me, about 30 349 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:42,600 minutes in the downtown area. Yeah. 350 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:50,200 So they've come a long way from a single shoe to now a fairly 351 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,080 aggressive apparel lifestyle sport company. 352 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:55,920 They just put out a weightlifting shoe. 353 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:59,160 They've got all kinds of stuff. So they've really grown an 354 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:04,640 incredible amount from being this idea to really grabbing a 355 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:06,760 very strong hold of the market in my opinion. 356 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:10,920 Like again, you walk outside in most cities, you're going to see 357 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:15,560 a large number of on and they've it's really impressive to see 358 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,680 that so. It's a little so here. 359 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,480 Oh, go ahead, David. The only thing I'll add is when 360 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,920 they added Roger, it wasn't just lifestyle. 361 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,040 They got some pretty hard going court shoes and they've got some 362 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:31,200 pretty serious tennis pros that are winning Grand Slams as well. 363 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,720 You know, not just what we see on the running side, like on the 364 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:39,600 track and field and Olympic marathon, but in Grand Slam at 365 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,040 the highest level of tennis, they've got people that are 366 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,880 performing. So here's my question for you. 367 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:51,600 I think the most distinguishing feature of on shoes through its 368 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:55,880 history has been the cloud tech and kind of these pods that are 369 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,360 present in the shoes. I don't even want to talk about 370 00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:02,440 the development and changing of those pods over time yet. 371 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,720 But when we think of back to those original pods, Matt, that 372 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:10,760 you were talking about and even some of the integrated pods from 373 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:15,200 years ago, maybe 5-6, I'm thinking of in 2017 when I ran 374 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,520 the Chicago Marathon, they had a big booth and that's the first 375 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:22,080 time I saw on shoes. How much of that concept was 376 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,360 real and how much is a gimmick in your mind? 377 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:30,240 Oh gosh, depends on when we're talking about this is where. 378 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:35,080 Early earlier stages. Oh, it's never going to send me 379 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:40,120 anything again. I yeah, I think my challenge is. 380 00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:43,000 So are you talking then? Yeah. 381 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,520 Yeah, I think there was something to it. 382 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,400 I think they had this great idea, but there were limitations 383 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,440 because obviously make the thing too big, it's not going to stay 384 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,160 in the satchel plane, IE front to back. 385 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:55,720 It was going to wobble all over the place. 386 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,480 They had mostly single pods at that point, and it wasn't until 387 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,800 later that they started integrating all them into a 388 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:06,960 single midsole. Yeah, it was an interesting 389 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,200 sensation. I will say it wasn't the same as 390 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:11,720 it is now. It's a very, it was a very 391 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,720 different feel. It was definitely firm and they 392 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,640 were not as light as I would have ever hoped them to be for 393 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:20,960 that technology. Like there's a lot of super 394 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,600 light stuff and that's it wasn't even coming close. 395 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,720 But it did give a very unique sensation. 396 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,080 And the uppers were the probably the most unique part to be very 397 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:30,600 honest, because they were so light. 398 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:32,520 These thin see through materials. 399 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,080 But again, how much validity? I think it was a cool idea. 400 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:36,400 I don't know. You know how well it was 401 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,160 actually like, actually came through, to be honest. 402 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:42,040 David, do you have thoughts on that? 403 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:46,080 Yeah, I think on was in an interesting situation because 404 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,720 I've seen multiple interviews with their owner and like he 405 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,800 actually like initially like proposed it to other companies 406 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:58,240 and it was shot down left and right across the industry. 407 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,560 And then it got to the point where it's like, all right, I'll 408 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:05,160 make my own company, let's do this, made it, you know, and 409 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,240 just kind of worked their way up the ranks. 410 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,400 And now we're talking about them today. 411 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,360 So I give them a lot of credit for just staying with the idea 412 00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:16,520 and having like, what client alluded to a novel experience on 413 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,640 the foot, right? Like it was different than the 414 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,280 other stuff that was out there. Whether it was better, you know, 415 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,400 I don't know, but it was different. 416 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,160 That's that. Let me let me answer this to 417 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:28,960 Nathan's thing. I think from a running 418 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:33,240 perspective, I don't think it worked nearly as well as a 419 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,800 walking perspective. The on walking shoes to this 420 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:41,480 day, they are super comfortable. It's got this nice rock, right. 421 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,640 It really rolls really smoothly, very, very comfortable. 422 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,240 So I'm not surprised. Yes, David mentioned this that 423 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,400 across many sports they've really they've taken off 424 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,480 especially in tennis, but just from a lifestyle walking 425 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,000 perspective, they are super comfortable. 426 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,560 And I will say the running they're working on a little bit, 427 00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:59,720 but the they've got. Multiple gold medals. 428 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,960 All right, fine. This year just spikes, right? 429 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,680 No, I'm just kidding. But they they're doing, they are 430 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:07,880 doing really well. But the initial concept I felt 431 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,480 like to answer nace the question didn't work as well for the for 432 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,640 the average runner to be honest, and I include myself in that. 433 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,520 I think my perspective on them is there's a reason, there's a 434 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,120 reason why these pods have undergone significant changes, 435 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,520 that the pods have also decreased in significant size, 436 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,840 particularly when they look at some of the performance shoes 437 00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:33,080 there. There are significant changes, I 438 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,480 think for a reason. And part of it is there's an 439 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,480 element where it is so distinguishable that that's a 440 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,720 boon for the company, but it did not perform how they need it to 441 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:43,760 perform. For running. 442 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,880 Concept, cool. Function not so cool and in my 443 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,680 opinion, the ability for these on shoes to be good, which we're 444 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,760 going to talk about how good we think they are in terms of 445 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,080 performance in time, I think depends more on the foam 446 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,920 property than the cloud tech formation. 447 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,520 I, I think that those are pretty different from each other, but 448 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,960 let's stick on the cloud tech for a little bit longer. 449 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,680 And one of the things that I think people who haven't tried 450 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,480 on or who have tried on start to talk about this idea of how 451 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,040 durable are these pods and do they break down over time? 452 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,520 Do they flatten out? Does it depend on which on shoe 453 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,760 you're talking about? How do these cloud pods behave 454 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,280 over time? David, do you have thoughts on 455 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,080 that? Yeah. 456 00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:34,240 I mean like any other property, it's going to give a little bit 457 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,360 more over time. But I think, and I, I'm sure 458 00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:41,800 we'll talk about this later, but when I look at on as a company 459 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:47,640 and I look at the public viewing of on, many people talk about on 460 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,360 being a quote UN quote firmer shoe. 461 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:58,200 Those pods start to give and that shoe becomes softer and I 462 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,080 actually feel like those pods break in pretty well. 463 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:05,280 Maybe the shoe properties don't hold up in the same way that you 464 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,080 would expect a traditional midsole to hold up. 465 00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:11,480 Like let's say you go and you buy an ASICS Nimbus and you have 466 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:15,480 this high stack Rockard shoe and it's all one piece and it kind 467 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,360 of holds its ride a little bit longer. 468 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,000 I almost feel like the on shoes are meant to break in a little 469 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,200 bit because in my experience with a lot of their models, as I 470 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,560 get more miles on them, I actually like them more and I've 471 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,760 been experiencing that with the Cloud Surfer Max especially, 472 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,000 which I already liked unboxing it. 473 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,440 I know there's polarizing opinions on that shoe. 474 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,960 Specifically, Boom Max. Cloud surfer Max Surfer Max. 475 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:40,960 Boom Max. I hate that shoe, sorry. 476 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,800 Yeah, exactly. No, that's what I'm saying. 477 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,240 I think like Bach and I love that shoe, but I've got it right 478 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:48,760 here. Here's the Cloud Surfer Max 479 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:50,600 replacer of the on cloud Eclipse. 480 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,040 But a lot of people gave it a lot of smack because it was 481 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,880 marketed as this high cushioning shoe when it came out the box 482 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,360 very firm. And I will acknowledge it came 483 00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:04,040 out the box very firm. It was a high stack rockard shoe 484 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,600 that was firm. I liked that, but it broke in 485 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,360 well and I feel like it's one of those shoes that's grown on me 486 00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:14,280 over time. But there I think the midsole 487 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,760 just, it breaks in and I feel like it's almost meant to break 488 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,280 in the way that I it feels on foot. 489 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,600 With that said, we live in a market where you go into a shoe 490 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,400 store, you try on a bunch of shoes, you're going to walk out 491 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,040 with the one that feels the best on your foot. 492 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,720 And I think in the running world, they haven't always 493 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,880 struck the hottest on that initial step in feel. 494 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,160 And I think that's why you almost see a little bit of a 495 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:41,640 dichotomy amongst the running. I don't want to say the purists 496 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,480 out there, but like there's a lot of people out there that are 497 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,040 like, Oh no, those aren't running shoes, right? 498 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,360 Like those are lifestyle shoes. Those are people like, I don't 499 00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:51,600 know, I feel like they have this weird kind of connotation that 500 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,480 like they blend in more with like your like dress it up with 501 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,660 your like Lululemon, your viori, like your athleisure, quote UN 502 00:25:59,660 --> 00:26:02,320 quote kind of crowd. But like, this is a serious 503 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,440 running company and I do think they're making good running 504 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,960 shoes. And I know out of the three of 505 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,000 us, I tend to be the one that likes on shoes more. 506 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,920 But I do feel like some of the shoes are designed pretty well 507 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,400 and I do think they transition well for the most part. 508 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:22,120 I think for me, I'm a strong buy on on the idea that on running 509 00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:24,920 makes legitimate running shoes. I'm a huge buy on that. 510 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,840 I think that they have a very vast lineup of shoes, shoes that 511 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:30,840 are going to work for different kinds of runners and different 512 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,120 preferences. And they aren't just gimmicky. 513 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,320 So I know I called like the concept of these pods a little 514 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,720 bit gimmicky, especially the earlier end. 515 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,080 Again, good ideas that just didn't functionally come out and 516 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:46,040 like play, but they make legitimately good running shoes 517 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,320 right now. We talked about some of the 518 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:52,120 athleisure side of things and part of the brand identity is a 519 00:26:52,120 --> 00:26:55,440 more premium brand. So I think you get if you look 520 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,800 at exact cost price comparison, you probably get less of a shoe 521 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:01,680 for the cost in terms of performance. 522 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,800 But if you want the on like brand and style, you're going to 523 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,680 pay for the brand and style. I think that's part of that's 524 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,600 part of their reality when it comes to the durability. 525 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,600 I think that the newer pods are much better at durability than 526 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,720 the older pods. I think back again to like 527 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,520 before 2020, a lot of those running shoes, even like the 528 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,360 guys who are in our running club who had them, the pods would 529 00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:27,360 actually like break because the only thing distributing the 530 00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:30,920 force was the this happened to you, Matt, You should go. 531 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,960 You should talk about it because I was going to refer someone 532 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,840 else's. Experience Did you ever bust a 533 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:41,360 Nike Air pod? I don't think I did. 534 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,480 I think I they. Were mostly in the forefoot. 535 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:44,840 So for you it's. Yeah, it was. 536 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,520 Heel, yeah, I would RIP through the outsole, but never busted. 537 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,280 But yeah, I with the Cloud Racer and eventually Cloud Flash, 538 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,040 which is a later model that I tried again. 539 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:58,880 I ripped the outsole pods off and I saw, I saw it come off, 540 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:00,640 but I was in the middle of workout so I didn't stop. 541 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,320 So somewhere there was a piece of a pod, There's a piece of a 542 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:09,120 small Cloud Racer pod sitting in Pomona, CA somewhere. 543 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,960 So yeah, it would. So because I'm so hard on shoes 544 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,640 I'd RIP through it and the pods would just like fully tear off 545 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:15,720 eventually for me. Yeah. 546 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,240 And even if they aren't falling off those earlier models, 547 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,320 because when when you would compress the shoe, the pod goes 548 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:27,160 from a space to closed, you know, those would go from the 549 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,960 point where they would stay open when just standing and then do 550 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,520 some compression. Whereas then, you know, a couple 551 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,160 100 miles in, you're standing in the shoe and the the pod is all 552 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,040 the way already collapsed. And so I think that was a 553 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:44,000 shortcoming of the earlier shoes as well, even after they moved 554 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:45,720 into the kind of integrated midsole. 555 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:51,320 But then you're seeing changes with smaller cloud pods with the 556 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,920 phase tack, even smaller when you get to some of their 557 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,200 performance shoes, you know, like pretty much all their 558 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,560 racing stuff, you know, the the appearance of the pod is really 559 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,000 aesthetic at this point and it's just operating off the foam. 560 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:09,120 So I think from a durability standpoint there now in my 561 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,240 opinion pretty much matching everything else fully knowing 562 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:19,600 that our ability to really gauge durability as shoe testers is 563 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,080 much less than people who actually bring these things to 564 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,920 end of life because our end of life, it looks a lot different 565 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:27,600 because we are always testing new shoes. 566 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,920 So I think we have a huge limitation to really speak to 567 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:31,560 this. But the durability of these 568 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,800 pods, now that they have new designs, they're smaller, You're 569 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,120 now you're seeing is the durability of the foam there, 570 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,240 not so much is this pod going to influence it? 571 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,160 But the older models and even some of the lifestyle stuff now, 572 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,800 which is not meant for running are going to probably break down 573 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,440 earlier because you don't have distributed load. 574 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,720 It's only on those bridges between the pods. 575 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:52,760 Matt, you're going to say something. 576 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,520 I actually have several on shoes that I've gotten to 100 miles. 577 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,240 Both both the recent, not recent, but not the on Kabu Max, 578 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,160 but the on cloud boom E3 and the on cloud boom strike. 579 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,360 The strike is one of my favorite racing shoes. 580 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,200 It's been for the foam here. The geometry has been great and 581 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,600 again, 100 miles and this thing is held up really, really well. 582 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:14,880 I also did that on a pair of cloud surfers. 583 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,720 So I can attest that some of the stuff is starting to handle 584 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,000 pretty well. The other piece that I think is 585 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,720 contributing to this is that you know, we on is typically 586 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,280 stereotyped as being firm. However, they have several shoes 587 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:30,240 that are definitely not firm and I would say the on cloud surfer 588 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,080 line is definitely like their mainstream like the cloud surfer 589 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,080 I think it was. Did they go from on cloud server 590 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,920 server 7 to all now on cloud surfer 2? 591 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,080 Or did I hallucinate and we can? Change the song, Cloud Surfer. 592 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:43,680 Yeah, just the Surfer. And this is the surfer. 593 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,480 And then they went to Surfer 2. Got it. 594 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,440 I must have been hallucinating. So the the Cloud Surfer, they're 595 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,800 the this one and the original, they're actually very soft and I 596 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,320 was really impressed. And I think that's when they 597 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,480 started seeing them. I experiment with a couple of 598 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,880 new phones, but also the geometry of the clouds has 599 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:01,480 changed. So for me, that really kind of 600 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,000 slides in. It compresses very, very nicely 601 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,320 for me because the the cloud tech is angled the right way 602 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,160 with some of the forces. So I think that's really helped. 603 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:13,640 And another insanely popular shoe, not just for running, but 604 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,000 you'll see a lot of people standing in these. 605 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,000 I've seen a surprise number of retail individuals working at 606 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:20,640 like wearing these. And I'm like, man, I wish I had 607 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,920 these back when I was standing for hours on end, but competing 608 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,680 very well with Brooks. And is the on cloud, cloud on 609 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,760 cloud Monster has been extremely good. 610 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,360 And I got the original up to 100 miles and I'm working on getting 611 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:34,720 the second one, although I love the original. 612 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,720 Yeah, the second one I'm having a little trouble with right now 613 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,720 because of my Achilles. And it feels like a very 614 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,200 negative drop or like an almost zero drop shoe for me because of 615 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,800 the this actually compresses quite a bit, but they do have 616 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,160 some softer shoes. So again, it's so it's now 617 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,160 becoming a little more variation of yes, they typically tend to 618 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,120 be a little bit firmer, but you're starting to see they're 619 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,000 they're figuring this out and you're getting that, that cloud 620 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,840 experience. So it's coming and it just takes 621 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:00,440 some time to work on it. But it's been impressive because 622 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,680 they stuck with it and then adding some, some of the new 623 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,040 foams, right, have been phenomenal. 624 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,440 So little defense for them because they are they are making 625 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,400 some strong pushes now that they. 626 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,800 I think part of the reason why on has been firm is because 627 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,240 they've needed the pods to stay intact. 628 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,440 And so they've used a firmer foam because they needed 629 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,040 something that could hold its structure. 630 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,880 But now that they're changing, now that they're changing how 631 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,280 these pods look, they can introduce softer foams. 632 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:34,960 So we have this diversified kind of portfolio that on has because 633 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,040 they've changed their geometry of those pods. 634 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:42,360 So I and I'm excited about that because they have invested in 635 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,160 good product in terms of the foam compounds that they can put 636 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:47,720 into shoes. And I think that was kind of 637 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,800 where I wanted to go next is where do you all feel can 638 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,000 someone define like what are their different foam off 639 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:59,240 offerings and how do those foams compare to other brands and if 640 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:05,480 they kind of stand up to it? Yeah. 641 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,880 I think with that one, it's a tricky one because a lot of 642 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,160 times they're integrated together. 643 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,920 So like they have the what they call the quote UN quote, Helion 644 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,040 super foam is what they've always kind of called that 645 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,680 basement. So, well, that's Helion HF, what 646 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,440 he's holding up. That's the in their super shoes 647 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,320 and also the the and all their racing models they use Helion HF 648 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:31,200 Helion is a different foam and I I don't remember what that is to 649 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,280 be honest, I don't know. If yeah, do we know off the top 650 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,240 of my head, I mean, we could just say it's a base midsole 651 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,520 like an Eva or some kind of TPU or something. 652 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:45,000 But I it feels pretty Eva to me. But we'll just say the reason 653 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,280 why because they say Helion Superphone, but then they have 654 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,840 the cloud tech as like the quote UN quote like geometry. 655 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:56,160 And then as they move forward, they have the cloud tech phase, 656 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,160 which is in the Cloud Surfer lineup. 657 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,800 But I view that more as a geometry. 658 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,360 But then when you look at the Cloud Monster Hyper, they say 659 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,320 that they have the Helion HF midsole with the Cloud Tech kind 660 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,000 of casing. Yeah, you're holding that up. 661 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:15,239 So I think the way you can view it is almost like Helion is kind 662 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,960 of the base regular foam and the Helion HF is the performance 663 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:20,360 foam. And that's going to be kind of 664 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,120 more your like traditional Peeba kind of lighter, faster, more 665 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:28,239 compliant, bouncy kind of foam, which is consistent with the 666 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,000 line UPS of shoes that they have. 667 00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:33,679 But they haven't been quite as public as far as like what is 668 00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:36,920 this actual foam construction made of to my knowledge. 669 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:38,199 Yeah, when I'm looking it up, I haven't. 670 00:34:38,199 --> 00:34:40,560 Really seen anything? When looking it up, the the 671 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,239 thing that cues me and somebody who's a chemical engineer can 672 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,400 probably correct me, but it says it's it's a proprietary super 673 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,400 foam that is temperature resistant, which makes me think 674 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:54,320 more of the David, you say like TPUTPEPP like kind of stuff. 675 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,400 Yeah, really. The regular regular. 676 00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,680 Oh, no, no, no, Yeah, No, there's regular. 677 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,160 I think the regular is an EDA kind of treated. 678 00:35:03,240 --> 00:35:05,160 Yeah, a little bit. But they've always, they've 679 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:06,960 always called it a super foam though. 680 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:08,720 That's where I think the confusion is. 681 00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:11,360 They've always like Helion super foam, even from the beginning. 682 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,360 The HF is definitely some kind of PIBA based thing. 683 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,040 It's awesome. Yeah, yeah. 684 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,280 Cool. Do you think that that foam is 685 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,280 consistent with other brands? Like you think about what's 686 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,880 going on with Saucony's main lines or you know what you've 687 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,960 got with flight foam in ASICS. Like do they, how do those 688 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,520 compare with each other? To me, it totally depends on 689 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,920 which shoe we're talking about just because I feel like the 690 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,440 characteristics of each shoe are very different. 691 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,840 You know, we for me, I'm one of the few people that that have 692 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,840 run in the stability shoes. And so the on cloud Flyer and 693 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,520 the on cloud runner are really firm. 694 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,280 Like the on cloud flyer, especially on cloud runner is 695 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,360 actually fairly rockered and smooth out, but it's still very 696 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:55,840 firm. But then you firm and then you 697 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,800 compare it to something like the on cloud monster, the on cloud 698 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,720 surfer, which are very soft shoes. 699 00:36:01,720 --> 00:36:04,240 Again, like on cloud monster. Some some people might argue, 700 00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:06,880 but there's a that that metal compresses and bounces quite a 701 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,880 bit. The on cloud surfer is really 702 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:10,280 soft. And then you have something like 703 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,320 the out cloud monster hyper, which kind of sits interestingly 704 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,920 in the middle. I have not tried. 705 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,960 We have what's the we have not tried the on cloud boom zone. 706 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:21,760 So I don't know but I would say this. 707 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,000 I'd love to try that the. Super Foams, especially where 708 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,760 they initially were a little firm, but now they're getting 709 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,560 bouncy responsive. And so it's yeah, it's kind of 710 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,640 hard to characterize just because everything has really 711 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:35,840 distinct things you can stereotype on as being firm. 712 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:40,400 But they've got some solid variation among their models now 713 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,840 anyway. So yeah, it's hard to put them 714 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,400 in one category to. Me they're definitely in my, you 715 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,720 know, somebody from on can come and correct me, but some 716 00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:54,760 companies say if something is Helion, it's the exact same foam 717 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,720 no matter the shoe it's in. Some companies like we've had 718 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,160 Nike has said this and Saucony has said this where they have 719 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:07,360 power on PB for Saucony, but it's a different power on PB in 720 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:11,440 the triumph and then it would be for the endorphin pro. 721 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:16,680 So I would venture to guess that the helion that on uses is 722 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:21,160 different depending on the model and a great example is the cloud 723 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,600 surfer line. The Cloud Surfer and Cloud 724 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:28,960 Surfer Twos Helion feels so different than the Helion inside 725 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:34,080 of the Cloud Surfer Max very different, feel much firmer as 726 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,480 David already mentioned in the Cloud Surfer Max. 727 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,880 And so like you said, it's hard to compare, but I think from a 728 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,440 daily trainer capability standpoint, I think it, in my 729 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,840 opinion, it's not like it's this worser foam. 730 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,360 I think it, it's on the, it's on there. 731 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,720 It's more of like, hey, what what sort of level of softness 732 00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:53,920 do you like? And if, and you're going to find 733 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,640 variation in the brand, you're going to find it between brands, 734 00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:58,680 but it's not like they're sitting far behind. 735 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,880 There are definitely companies that we have tested that have 736 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,760 tried to make running shoes and they just don't know what a foam 737 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,480 needs to be on has a foam that works in my opinion. 738 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,160 And it's just if it lines up with what you want or not. 739 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:16,400 Yeah. I think of it almost like a 740 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,280 dichotomy, like they have Helion and then they have Helion HF, 741 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,720 and then it's like your training models are pretty consistent 742 00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:26,520 with other training models. Their Helion HF is pretty 743 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,640 consistent with other performance models. 744 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,920 Could it be softer or firmer? Yeah, sure. 745 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,640 But I feel like it's pretty comparable from a performance 746 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,040 standpoint on both ends. Yeah, that's great. 747 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:40,720 OK. So now what we want to do is 748 00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:45,640 transition into talking about the line of shoes that on has. 749 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,520 They have a lot of offerings. So I'm excited to talk as a 750 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:53,720 group and try to lay out how do you categorize on shoes? 751 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:55,760 What sort of buckets do you put them in? 752 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,640 And then how do you understand their their naming system and 753 00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:02,720 what shoes are going to be like. What, David, are you up for 754 00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:06,000 giving our first shot at this and how you categorize on shoes? 755 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:09,960 Yeah. I think they are one of the 756 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,760 companies that in some ways it's simple and other ways very 757 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:18,120 confusing. And I would say on the simple 758 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:23,080 end, if you see a boom in the nomenclature, so cloud is kind 759 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,960 of the base model portion that doesn't really say anything 760 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,840 about the shoe. So you would say on cloud 761 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:34,560 whatever follows. The easiest way to think about 762 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:39,880 this is like on cloud boom, if you see boom, it's implying some 763 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:45,080 level of performance on cloud Boom Echo super shoe on cloud 764 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:52,360 Boom strike super shoe on cloud boom Max supposed super shoe for 765 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:56,800 the masses, You know, kind of like recreational easy running 766 00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,440 shoe that can go 26.2. That's up for debate. 767 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,720 But it does use Helio on HF. That's like. 768 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:09,320 So you can pretty much bank on Helion HF being in the shoe from 769 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:14,080 a nomenclature standpoint. The only like shoe that doesn't 770 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:18,160 fit that mold is the on Cloud Ultra Pro that does use Helion 771 00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,000 HF, but that is in the trail lineup. 772 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,840 And so you kind of get the Ultra in the name. 773 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,880 That's kind of the one that breaks off from that from then 774 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,000 like it now if you look at it. So now you have the on cloud and 775 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,640 then you can insert the model name from that point forward. 776 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:38,040 So I will go to the surfer line up next. 777 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:42,160 So the on cloud surfer, when I think of the surfer line up, I 778 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,800 think of a shoe when on first got started, they used a lot of 779 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,680 like these plastic plates that they called speed boards. 780 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,440 That was pretty much a given in almost every shoe. 781 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,920 That's not the case anymore. When you look at the on cloud 782 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,640 surfers, I think of that as like your quote UN quote flagship 783 00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,840 neutral shoe. So the surfer is the regular 784 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,480 kind of flagship neutral. Then you go down to the next. 785 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,040 The next is kind of meant to be the more the snappy, a little 786 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,120 bit stiffer. So here's the cloud surfer next 787 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:10,680 that I'm holding up for the viewers. 788 00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,480 A little bit stiffer. It's got a little more bounce to 789 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:18,360 it, but it's still kind of no speed board surfer, flagship 790 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,600 neutral, a little bit softer, has a little bit more 791 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:24,560 flexibility. Cloud Surfer Max kind of in the 792 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:29,960 name Max more of it and a little bit of a stiffer rocker profile. 793 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,280 Now the foam properties. People have felt differences 794 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,560 between the Cloud Surfer and the Cloud Surfer Max, but I think 795 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:39,920 the general ideology stays the same there where it's like no 796 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,440 speed board, kind of your flagship neutral. 797 00:41:43,720 --> 00:41:46,560 It gets more confusing when you go to the other models. 798 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,560 Now Cloud Monster is going to be the high stack. 799 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,000 It's a monster. That's kind of the idea, right? 800 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:57,120 So a lot of shoe Cloud Monster hyper includes the Helion HF. 801 00:41:57,960 --> 00:41:59,720 Is that hyperfoam? I don't actually know what the 802 00:41:59,720 --> 00:42:02,360 HF stands for. That's a great question. 803 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,280 I don't know the. Answer, but anyways, Cloud 804 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,320 Monster Hyper has the Helion HF with the cloud tech base. 805 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,040 The stability models are very confusing. 806 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,320 You have the cloud runner, which is kind of like your moderate 807 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,800 kind of light to moderate stability and your cloud flyer, 808 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:20,600 which is your more structured stability that I feel like just 809 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:22,240 kind of comes with no and the names. 810 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,680 I don't really have any great mnemonic or anything for 811 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,600 memorizing that, but I kind of look at it that way. 812 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,720 I know that was a very long winded answer to break up the 813 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,480 shoes, but it's like boom performance. 814 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,440 Surfer, flagship, neutral, no speed board. 815 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:40,880 Everything else is kind of a Wild West. 816 00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:47,200 Yeah, from a just for, just for the record, from a very quick 817 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:52,520 check with our resources, HF stands for Hyper Foam, according 818 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:54,720 to our sources, which will go unnamed. 819 00:42:54,720 --> 00:42:57,240 That would make sense. However, somebody who actually 820 00:42:57,240 --> 00:43:00,520 knows can comment and tell us what it is. 821 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:02,560 But don't blame us, blame our sources. 822 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:04,440 I'm not going to say what our sources were. 823 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,280 OK. Matt, did you have any other 824 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,160 ways that you categorize these, Matt or David, I think you did a 825 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:14,440 nice job with kind of different lines and kind of scaling them. 826 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,200 I think that's what a lot of companies have. 827 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,320 Are these scalable lines? Matt, do you have anything to 828 00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,040 add to it? No, I think that was perfect 829 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:23,840 actually. And it also is a really great 830 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,360 example of the evolution that on is going through where I think 831 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,280 in the past they were just throwing, they had this name, 832 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,280 this name, and now you're starting to see these 833 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,240 categories. What I really hope and on please 834 00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:37,760 don't leave these behind like every a lot of other people are 835 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,960 is that maybe the stability line might start getting its own name 836 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,280 that might go forward just to organize things. 837 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,480 But I think David, you hit that in the head that it's it's 838 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,880 actually if you look at the name, it should give you some 839 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,360 structure and understanding. OK, this is what I'm getting 840 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:52,800 into. Cloud booms going to be more the 841 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:54,440 performance lineup for a variety of people. 842 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,200 Cub monsters, more of your monster rights, the higher 843 00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:01,120 stack, kind of softer foam bounce your larger shoe. 844 00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:03,640 And then you have the cloud surfer lineup, which is kind of 845 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:07,720 your your standard series that they're really starting to lean 846 00:44:07,720 --> 00:44:09,240 into. You have a couple others like 847 00:44:09,240 --> 00:44:11,440 the on cloud flow is a great example. 848 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,600 The trail line up varies. We have not tried the on cloud 849 00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,280 flow unless one of you has and I don't know did David? 850 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,520 No, not the most one. Cloud Flow 4 is great. 851 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,120 I haven't tried the cloud of Flow 5. 852 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,800 And then the trail line up is a little bit mixed with the on 853 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:32,320 Cloud Ultra Pro, the Allen Cloud Vista, we are forgetting one for 854 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,280 the road that I really wanted to try, not the Venture. 855 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,000 Not the road, I was thinking trails. 856 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:39,800 There is a trail and a road version of it. 857 00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:41,080 Why am I forgetting the name of it? 858 00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,880 It's supposed to be their maximal, like taller Max 859 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:45,000 cushionship, but it's really firm. 860 00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,000 But it's really nicely rockered. Why am I forgetting this? 861 00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:56,760 It might be the on cloud stratus, I think it's another 862 00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:58,920 one but. I surfer trail, yeah, I think. 863 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,880 The there's a surfer trail, Yep, which is actually pretty solid. 864 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,320 I've tried that before, but I think David hit it on the head. 865 00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:05,960 There's a lot of organization that's happened. 866 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:08,400 I think we're going to start seeing a lot of these shoes kind 867 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,480 of transition. The example of this, the on 868 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,600 Cloud Surfer Max, which originally called the on Cloud 869 00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,440 Eclipse, which was a great shoe and I really enjoyed that one. 870 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,400 But they're consolidating. So I think, and I can't speak 871 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,000 for on it looks like they're working on consolidating some of 872 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,120 the stuff into lines rather than having these random names. 873 00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:26,480 So I think it makes more. Sense nice. 874 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:30,440 Honestly, yeah, I think that. Makes it easier to know what to 875 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,680 expect when you're looking at specific models. 876 00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:34,520 Nathan, was that right? Was it on cloud? 877 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,280 Stratus cloud stratus. Yes, the. 3rd 1 is out and I 878 00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,800 remember I ran in version 1 and I actually enjoyed it even 879 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,440 though it was really firm. The trail version was awesome. 880 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:47,560 But yeah, the cloud Stratus three, I don't know if there 881 00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,600 there's plans for a four what the what what's going on there? 882 00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:52,960 But yeah, they're seem to be organizing their lineup, which 883 00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,520 is really nice for consumers. I think that that's also going 884 00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:00,680 to that's going to change what the offerings look like any in 885 00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:02,320 two years from now. I think they're going to 886 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,600 continually take out because there there are too many one 887 00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:06,840 offs right now and we're starting to see those start to 888 00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:10,200 go away and they're starting to have these defining features. 889 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:14,480 Like David, you said, the boom is probably going to have Helion 890 00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:21,520 HF the surfer lacks a kind of a a plastic plate in the in the 891 00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,480 shoe. So I think those are nice things 892 00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:27,520 to be able to categorize them into different things. 893 00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:29,680 I'm curious what they're going to do with the monster because 894 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:33,720 those are kind of like 2 one off shoes that there's almost a 895 00:46:33,720 --> 00:46:35,200 crossover. Well. 896 00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:36,800 Yeah, but I think. About. 897 00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,440 The monsters really well, I. Totally agree I'm not suggesting 898 00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,200 they get rid of it, but I'm just saying now you have you know the 899 00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:48,760 cloud boom Max and you have the monster hyper. 900 00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,720 They are different, but they and you have surfer Max, they start 901 00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:55,440 to bleed into one another. So I think we're in a 902 00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,160 transitional period where you're, I look at these and I'm 903 00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,200 like, well, what do you want them to be? 904 00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:02,320 Do you want? And, and they're probably like, 905 00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,440 if you knew what we had three years from now, they would all 906 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,920 make sense because some of those are going to go away, we're 907 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:09,080 going to change, blah, blah, blah. 908 00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:11,680 But right now I think that there's some overlap, which can 909 00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,080 be confusing when trying to figure out what you want because 910 00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:18,760 right now you know the the functionality of the in my 911 00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:22,920 opinion of the cloud monster hyper and the on cloud boom Max 912 00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:25,240 is very similar. They run differently, but 913 00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:29,160 they're both these heavier Max stacked a little bit of pop. 914 00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:31,040 They kind of soften up over time. 915 00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,600 They roll pretty well that you can get into rhythm handle long 916 00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,280 runs like that's what they both do. 917 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:38,720 They just do it a little differently. 918 00:47:38,720 --> 00:47:41,240 Like the, the Monster Hyper is much more stable. 919 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:46,120 Not that the the Cloud Boom Max is unstable, but the, the casing 920 00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,640 of that helion around the HF just really gives you a really 921 00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:52,360 stable ride. It's even more stiff in my 922 00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:55,360 opinion, than the Max, even though there's a plate in there. 923 00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:58,880 So I don't know, I think we're going to see some further 924 00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,600 differentiation, some clarity of what these shoes are supposed to 925 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:03,320 do. And we're kind of in this weird 926 00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:06,480 transitional period. I think the thing that's 927 00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,360 maintained, though, is that there's clearly been a focus on 928 00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,160 performance. Olivia, I think is I'm, I 929 00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:15,760 apologize, the the creator's name was a gold medal Olympic 930 00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,920 medalist. Obviously there's been a 931 00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,440 performance standpoint and focus from This is why you're clearly 932 00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:26,200 seeing them do well at the track and field and like Rd. stuff is, 933 00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:28,520 is starting to show up with Helen O'berry and, and that 934 00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:31,560 group. But like the on club boom strike 935 00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:35,040 is phenomenal. The on club boom E3 was a great. 936 00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:36,640 She was one of Andrea's favorites. 937 00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:41,120 I am really excited to see version 4, which it's been, you 938 00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,080 know, it's been like 2 years since we reviewed this shoe. 939 00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:44,960 Yeah, yeah, the echo has been a minute. 940 00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,240 Yeah, it's been a minute. So I'm hoping version 4 is 941 00:48:47,240 --> 00:48:49,800 coming out, but it was is a solid shoe and then a lot of 942 00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:54,760 their stuff because it is. Had the Mcconnells ice cream 10K 943 00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:55,960 a couple of years ago. Yeah. 944 00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:58,280 That. In that shoe, yeah, there's 945 00:48:58,280 --> 00:48:59,800 Shout out Mcconnells Ice Cream, 10K. 946 00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,360 I will say that a lot of the shoes still have a performance 947 00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,520 standpoint. I have loved the on Surfer next. 948 00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:09,720 It's a really snappy show under foot on that cloud Monster can 949 00:49:09,720 --> 00:49:13,000 become very responsive. So it's definitely unique. 950 00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:15,200 They don't have a lot of mushy shoes. 951 00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:19,480 Most of them are going to either be firm, responsive, and David 952 00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:20,760 was right, they do tend to change. 953 00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:23,240 And I'm wondering if maybe some of the cloud where we as 954 00:49:23,240 --> 00:49:26,720 reviewers are not getting enough miles on them to really see what 955 00:49:26,720 --> 00:49:28,400 they feel like as the shoe breaks in. 956 00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,280 Although my experiences with the ones that I've gotten 200 miles 957 00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,680 have been great. So it's definitely a unique 958 00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:37,080 company, but it's also really cool from a cultural standpoint, 959 00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,360 which again, to me is super interesting that they've taken 960 00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,480 such a strong hold at least throughout the United States. 961 00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:46,400 I can't speak for early in in cities anyway, I can't speak for 962 00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,320 the rest of the world, but it's been very interesting. 963 00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:55,000 When I went to Houston for CSM and with last year, it was same 964 00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,200 thing. I'm like, wow, I in even Texas, 965 00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:58,760 there's a good number of people wearing on. 966 00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:02,800 That's really interesting. Portland, Seattle, LA, I'm on 967 00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,280 mostly on the West Coast, but it's been the same thing every 968 00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,120 time I've gone around. So it's that's a very unique 969 00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,160 shift that they've worked hard for. 970 00:50:10,720 --> 00:50:13,440 Let's say even in a point a lot of the lot of the PT students 971 00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:16,040 have on shoes, it's just kind of and they're not not running 972 00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:20,120 shoes, but just their kind of casual kind of daily wear 973 00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,040 lifestyle shoes very, very popular around here too. 974 00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:29,400 I am curious from you all. Just one more thing you were 975 00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,680 saying, Matt, I think we get shoes to 100 miles and that's a 976 00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:35,840 lot for us. People want to run in shoes for 977 00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:38,560 506 hundred miles, so we get like 1/5 of the way. 978 00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,480 I'm curious from people who have been doing that and on shoes, 979 00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:45,280 share your perspective in the comments on YouTube or whatever 980 00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,760 about your experience with durability of some of these 981 00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:51,680 flagship trainers thinking about the surfer line or if you're 982 00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:54,920 using the Monster, like what is durability been like for you? 983 00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,560 Because that is the feedback that's going to help people who 984 00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:00,880 really prioritize durability more so than what we can pull 985 00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,600 off. So again, comment below if you 986 00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:05,760 have thoughts on the durability side of things. 987 00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:11,200 The last question I wanted to ask about on shoes, remember you 988 00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:14,000 can add in any other categorizations as you want, but 989 00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:15,560 I think we hit that pretty decently. 990 00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,400 How do you feel about the overall fit of these shoes? 991 00:51:19,720 --> 00:51:23,080 And if you let's talk about fit, but then also if you're going to 992 00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:28,320 recommend one on shoe to maybe try as your first foray into it 993 00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:30,400 as a daily trainer, which one would you go with? 994 00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:35,760 I'm going to jump in and say that I for the not all, but for 995 00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:41,360 the most part, I love on uppers. It's among the group I again get 996 00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:44,480 get made fun of for how much I disliked the ride of the on 997 00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:46,840 cloud Boom Max and it was like one of the shoes I was looking 998 00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,160 forward to most and just. Such a nice shoe, don't listen 999 00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:51,520 to anything. It's just too stiff and I'm 1000 00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,440 hitting probably hit the plate early, but man, the fit is 1001 00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:56,640 phenomenal. It's like the most anatomic toe 1002 00:51:56,640 --> 00:52:00,400 box from like from a non ultra topo company that I've seen in a 1003 00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,240 while. Although tears now might be 1004 00:52:02,240 --> 00:52:04,720 taking that, but they're uppers, man. 1005 00:52:04,720 --> 00:52:07,120 The fit is phenomenal. I'll say the same thing about 1006 00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:10,480 their apparel that even though their apparel is insanely 1007 00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,960 expensive, if you've seen me running, you've probably seen me 1008 00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,640 in one of the many pairs of on cloud ultra Tees that I bought 1009 00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:20,520 on sale or bought on eBay because I love the fit is 1010 00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:23,160 phenomenal. And that's I think also why 1011 00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:26,440 they're they've really taken off casual lifestyle because the 1012 00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:29,840 fits are great. They're usually a teeny, not all 1013 00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:31,920 of them, but they're usually got some nice stretchy upwards that 1014 00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:35,200 are just a teeny bit wider, at least in the running in the more 1015 00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:37,400 lifestyle shoes, they tend to be a little bit more snug. 1016 00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:40,160 Like that's something I like about the cloud surfer next, 1017 00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:41,560 because it's just a teeny bit more snug. 1018 00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:44,240 It's got that more performance feel, but there's actually a 1019 00:52:44,240 --> 00:52:46,920 surprising amount of room. The on cloud monster definitely 1020 00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:48,160 wide. It's great. 1021 00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:50,680 And when I've talked to people like I think the most I've 1022 00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:53,320 actually seen them is at Costco, where when I go to Costco and 1023 00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:54,800 I'm like, I always comments on people's shoes. 1024 00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,200 I'm like, Hey, how do you like like everybody else wearing 1025 00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,080 hookah Brooks? How do you like on? 1026 00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:00,800 Like, dude, this was like one of the wider fits. 1027 00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:04,840 I love this so fit wise, absolutely phenomenal. 1028 00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:08,240 Yeah, I guess I could piggyback off. 1029 00:53:08,240 --> 00:53:11,080 Except for the on cloud surfer Max I I don't like that. 1030 00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:16,840 I like that too, man. I like it a lot actually. 1031 00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:21,960 But when I think of on two, it's one of the few companies on our 1032 00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:25,160 team that I feel like, and we mentioned this with Rabbit the 1033 00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:28,680 other week that like we're fortunate enough to be seated 1034 00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:31,160 some of these things, but we've gone out of our way to actually 1035 00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:34,560 purchase some things from this company as well. 1036 00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:36,240 And that's mostly in the apparel realm. 1037 00:53:36,240 --> 00:53:40,480 But they also have like a pre owned section on their website 1038 00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:44,160 that they call what is it? It's like on forward or 1039 00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:48,560 something like that, but you can go to like a pre owned section. 1040 00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:51,600 And I actually decided to try that out for the people that do 1041 00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,680 kind of see like a price barrier because you can get some of the 1042 00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,960 performance Tees for like pretty cheap and like some of the other 1043 00:53:57,960 --> 00:53:59,080 offerings. Yeah, what's up, man? 1044 00:53:59,240 --> 00:54:02,560 It's called onward by. On onward, that's what it was. 1045 00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:05,080 I feel like that's a really solid like. 1046 00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:06,760 Dad. Yeah, no, it's a great, Yeah, 1047 00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:08,640 good job. It's a great, great tagline. 1048 00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:09,960 I don't know how I could forget that. 1049 00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:12,200 Anyways, it's actually pretty good. 1050 00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:15,080 I've used it myself. I've purchased multiple pieces 1051 00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:17,000 off of that. And you can you can get nice 1052 00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:18,760 pieces of apparel for pretty cheap. 1053 00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:21,680 Or you can do an idea. Purchased them on it. 1054 00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:24,000 On it, yeah. On it, not off of that. 1055 00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:26,880 You've Yeah, well, now on Word. On word on, yeah. 1056 00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:29,720 Or if you do what I do, word. On word guys onward. 1057 00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,520 I just hunt on eBay. We don't need to stay here. 1058 00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:34,640 Yeah, this is getting worse as we keep going. 1059 00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:35,680 I'm sorry. That's my. 1060 00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:38,960 Fault no, no, but from the upper fit though I do think they have 1061 00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:42,320 some good uppers. I will say, like when I think of 1062 00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:45,440 companies that I really like uppers from, I've really liked 1063 00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,960 Newton, I've really liked on. Oh gosh, thank. 1064 00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:51,920 You for saying Newton? Yeah, like there's certain 1065 00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:54,440 companies like Topo always has good uppers. 1066 00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:57,760 Like there's a certain companies you can almost rely on having a 1067 00:54:57,760 --> 00:54:59,840 pretty good fit on the foot itself. 1068 00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:01,520 Like who cares about the rest of the shoe? 1069 00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:03,520 Like obviously that could be different for so many people, 1070 00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:05,640 but you can almost always rely on a good upper. 1071 00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:09,280 And I feel like ON doesn't really take very many shortcuts 1072 00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:10,960 and the fit's usually pretty good. 1073 00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:13,760 It feels good. The materials feel premium. 1074 00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:16,480 They feel like they'll hold up. They don't stretch too much. 1075 00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:18,600 You know, when you make turns or you do weird things. 1076 00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:22,480 Like I feel like they all feel pretty dialed in, whether it's 1077 00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:25,000 meant to be more streamlined and performance or it's meant to be 1078 00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:28,800 more cozy and accommodating. I feel like they do kind of hit 1079 00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,640 it pretty well. I, I don't know if there's 1080 00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:34,760 really been an ON upper in recent history that I could 1081 00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:38,480 think of that I didn't like. You know, I'm looking at like a 1082 00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:41,400 lot of on shoes on the floor right now and every single one 1083 00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:44,720 of them I like to fit. So from an upper standpoint they 1084 00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,240 they usually do pretty well. They nail it. 1085 00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:52,440 I, I don't have anything to add Phenomenal fit, phenomenal fit. 1086 00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:55,080 So I, I know I posed that other question. 1087 00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:58,440 What would be the first onshoe you would maybe recommend people 1088 00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:02,200 try out? But I, I, I think I want to go a 1089 00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:04,240 different direction instead, because we haven't even started 1090 00:56:04,240 --> 00:56:07,240 answering that question. And one of the other things 1091 00:56:07,240 --> 00:56:11,320 that's commonly talked about with on shoes because they have 1092 00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:15,440 these pods is that they're just going to get filled with rocks. 1093 00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,120 You're going to run on it and the rocks going to be like in 1094 00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:20,280 the pod. Has that ever happened to either 1095 00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:21,800 of you? Do you think that's a legitimate 1096 00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:25,600 concern? It hasn't happened to me where 1097 00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:30,680 it's in the pod. I feel like I've had it before 1098 00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:33,160 where maybe it gets on the midline groove. 1099 00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:38,800 Yes, not on the Surfer, but like on the like the very first Cloud 1100 00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,840 Monster, there's a deep midline groove in there. 1101 00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:43,280 I definitely got a rock in there. 1102 00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:45,520 Well, that's the Cloud Boom Max though, right? 1103 00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:49,160 So I was going to have the. Same thing on you or not, or I'm 1104 00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:52,640 sorry, Cloud Monster on you. I do not have the monster on me, 1105 00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:54,800 Matt does. The midline groove is pretty 1106 00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:56,520 deep. Oh, it's on the first one. 1107 00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:58,160 The first one went all the way to the speed board. 1108 00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:00,560 This was. This the second one is is filled 1109 00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:03,400 in I think for that reason. Yeah, but so 'cause I would get 1110 00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:05,880 it in the first one for sure. I actually not not. 1111 00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:09,440 Often I actually did have a rock get stuck and this is back when 1112 00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:12,720 some of their trail models actually had the and I think the 1113 00:57:12,720 --> 00:57:15,360 cloud Vista still does. But the actually on cloud 1114 00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:18,960 Stratus, I think it was the trail version, I actually had a 1115 00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:21,800 rock get stuck in there and it was pretty easy to pull out. 1116 00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:24,480 Didn't get stuck deeply, but it just kind of lodged in the side 1117 00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:26,440 randomly. But for the most part I 1118 00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:30,320 ironically, you know, I haven't had that be an issue. 1119 00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:32,320 I think some of the. Original. 1120 00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:34,680 Original models that might have been a different story. 1121 00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:38,440 Like I would never have taken the Cloud Racer on anything 1122 00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:42,400 trail that was Rd. only. But I think their trail stuff 1123 00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:45,480 like the Cloud Ultra, Cloud Ultra Pro is like one of my 1124 00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:48,440 favorite trail shoes and maybe my trail shoe of the year right 1125 00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:49,520 now. So yeah. 1126 00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:52,640 And those are those are the really small pods, tiny pods. 1127 00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:56,760 I think Speaking of trail, did you end up doing that 50K? 1128 00:57:57,400 --> 00:57:58,520 No. Are you doing a lucky? 1129 00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:00,440 Ki got sick. Oh, I am lucky. 1130 00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:02,240 I was maybe going to give it a go. 1131 00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:04,480 I've literally been sweating bullets over this for the last 1132 00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:06,560 couple weeks and I'm like it's a game time decision. 1133 00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:08,000 I don't know what the exact day is. 1134 00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,480 He's going to tell me if he does it or not and that determines 1135 00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:12,480 whether or not I do a 50K in the trails. 1136 00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:16,240 So for the people who don't know, I know I should have said 1137 00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:19,080 the people who who didn't hear this conversation on a previous 1138 00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:22,320 episode. My friends were running a 50K. 1139 00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:25,760 I kind of was getting dragged into it and was going to just 1140 00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,920 give it a go. My toe started bugging me so I 1141 00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:31,360 was like full in if my toe was going to handle it. 1142 00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:33,960 Toe kind of got worse. Took a couple weeks off and I 1143 00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:35,680 was like, maybe I'm just going to go for this. 1144 00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:38,840 And then I got sick and then it was just I'm not going to not 1145 00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:40,760 going to go. So the deal wasn't I. 1146 00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:43,880 Ended up doing it. David, David was going to have 1147 00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:46,480 to do it as well. Last thing on the rocks for me, 1148 00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:49,680 I run on the Green Circle Trail, which is like crushed granite 1149 00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:52,760 all the time. And I that's where I do most of 1150 00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:55,960 my training and testing miles. Never once have I had one of 1151 00:58:55,960 --> 00:59:00,840 those small kind of granite rocks get into the side of a 1152 00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:02,840 pod. If the shoe has a groove on the 1153 00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:05,440 bottom, it's going to get a rock in it no matter what brand it 1154 00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:07,800 is. Like I've gotten rocks in the 1155 00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:13,000 Max and those don't bother me, but otherwise I have I haven't 1156 00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:14,480 had the issue where it goes in the side. 1157 00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:20,720 So is there anything you all want to add about on running or 1158 00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:25,200 shoes or considerations for people with special conditions 1159 00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:28,240 before we wrap things up? I would say one of the things to 1160 00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:30,760 pay attention to is most of their models are pretty 1161 00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:33,120 rockered. And So what that means is that 1162 00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:38,080 there's some exception to this, like like the Cloud X and things 1163 00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:39,360 like that. But a lot of the models, 1164 00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:42,040 including some of The Walking ones as well, they're going to 1165 00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:44,280 be highly rockered. So that can feel really good, 1166 00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:46,960 like kind of rolling it, that takes can take some load off the 1167 00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:48,840 foot and ankle. Just know it's going to put some 1168 00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:50,360 more workload into your hip and knee. 1169 00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:52,640 That's not a bad thing. It's just going to shift the 1170 00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:54,120 workload. I think that's why people like 1171 00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:55,600 them. And I can attest that walking in 1172 00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:58,280 a pair all day, yeah, feet usually feel fine. 1173 00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:01,360 It's just maybe some stuff up higher can get worked a little 1174 01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:03,240 bit. So just know that just based on 1175 01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:05,640 the design. That's not an uncommon thing. 1176 01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:08,040 My other comment is that if you're interested in this brand, 1177 01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:11,880 I would honestly keep it simple and try the on cloud surfer or 1178 01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:15,160 the on cloud monster series and just want like because those are 1179 01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:17,560 well cushioned. I think they're very competitive 1180 01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:19,200 with the other running shoes on the market. 1181 01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:22,200 They've done a good job. They're not nearly as firm as 1182 01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:25,520 some of the more kind of unique models in the on lineup. 1183 01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:28,360 And I think those are the two really, really start your game 1184 01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:30,360 with the on cloud surfer is very neutral. 1185 01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:33,280 So if you need more stable, right, it's not not nearly the 1186 01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:35,560 best, although it's not as terrible as it kind of looks. 1187 01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:38,920 And the on cloud monster is definitely a great should just 1188 01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:40,480 be careful. The upper is a little bit lower 1189 01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:43,560 volume through the mid foot. So I had some irritation on top 1190 01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:44,960 my foot, but I have enjoyed this. 1191 01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:48,520 So I think those two are the the flagship shoes that you should 1192 01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:49,800 try. And then if you decide, hey, 1193 01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:53,200 this company's working for me or if you're also the person that 1194 01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:56,240 wants a more moderate stack height shoe and we know that 1195 01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:57,960 those are disappearing really quick. 1196 01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:01,640 They actually have a decent number from the on cloud surfer 1197 01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:06,840 next, the cloud runner is not a maximal stack height shoe. 1198 01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:09,280 They have a wide range where I feel like a lot of companies are 1199 01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:13,680 really only in that maps cushion area there there's a decent 1200 01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:17,000 spread and especially if you like firmer shoes, which isn't 1201 01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:20,600 always a thing, they they certainly have their firmer 1202 01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:22,520 shoes. So you know, there's there's 1203 01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:25,640 something I I would start there and then move outwards if you 1204 01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,000 are more interested. Fantastic. 1205 01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:30,920 Well, thanks everybody for joining us for this conversation 1206 01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:33,320 about on running. And if you have any other 1207 01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:36,320 thoughts about on or things we didn't talk about or things that 1208 01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:38,680 you may disagree with, please comment below. 1209 01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:40,120 Reach out to us. We'd love to hear your 1210 01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:43,000 perspective on this stuff. And if you want to check out 1211 01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:46,240 more of what you're doing of what we're up to, you can go to 1212 01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:49,160 doctorsofrunning.com. Or if you want to reach out to 1213 01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:52,000 us about something for a future podcast episode that you'd like 1214 01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:54,240 us to talk about, you can reach out to us at 1215 01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:56,400 doctorsofrunning@gmail.com.