1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:02,700 Are you looking for ways to optimize your health and 2 00:00:02,700 --> 00:00:04,700 performance and take your running to the next level? 3 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:08,300 Well look no further than inside tracker created by experts in 4 00:00:08,300 --> 00:00:12,400 aging genetics and biometric data from Harvard Tufts and MIT 5 00:00:12,700 --> 00:00:15,900 inside tracker provides a personalized Health analysis and 6 00:00:15,900 --> 00:00:18,600 clear recommendations. Plus an action plan on how to 7 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,600 live healthier longer. 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Don't wait any longer. 18 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,100 Take control of your health and performance today. 19 00:00:51,100 --> 00:00:54,900 With inside tracker, visit inside tracker.com doctors are 20 00:00:54,900 --> 00:01:03,000 running. Hey everybody and welcome to the 21 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,200 doctors of running podcast, where we a group of doctors of 22 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,600 physical therapy discuss the Art and Science of the stuff we're 23 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,600 putting on our theme. We've got a really special guest 24 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:14,400 with us here today. We've got dr. 25 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,500 Mike Starr, a pulley, he's a physical therapist. 26 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,900 He's also a board certified Orthopedic Specialist, and a 27 00:01:20,908 --> 00:01:23,600 certified strength and conditioning specialist. 28 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,100 Mike is the founder of goal, Physiotherapy and sports 29 00:01:28,100 --> 00:01:29,900 performance in Westport, Connecticut. 30 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,600 Etiquette, he's the former PT for the New York Red Bulls, 31 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:37,700 soccer team, and current, PT for individual Red Bull sponsored 32 00:01:37,700 --> 00:01:39,800 athletes. So, thank you so much for 33 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,200 joining us today. Mike, we're so happy to have you 34 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,300 on Andrea. Thank you so much for having me. 35 00:01:44,308 --> 00:01:47,400 It's the I've been a fan of the podcast myself personally. 36 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,600 So it's nice to be on the other side and I appreciate the 37 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:52,200 opportunity to talk. Oh yeah. 38 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,300 I think our listeners are going to learn a lot from you. 39 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:56,800 So could you tell us first just a little bit about your 40 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:03,100 background with PT and Birds, how your gut started with your 41 00:02:03,100 --> 00:02:06,400 clinic and a little bit about how you got started with Red 42 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:07,400 Bull. Absolutely. 43 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:11,900 You know, the sport as a whole has always been a huge, huge 44 00:02:11,900 --> 00:02:15,700 part of my life from as kid growing up and and transitioning 45 00:02:15,700 --> 00:02:18,300 all the way to now to, you know, growing up I definitely played a 46 00:02:18,308 --> 00:02:20,500 lot of soccer and and ran as well. 47 00:02:20,500 --> 00:02:24,100 Since number one, such a big component of playing soccer but 48 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,800 also enjoyed doing a fair amount of running to. 49 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:31,500 So played soccer through high school and Then transition to a 50 00:02:31,508 --> 00:02:34,100 lot more running and did some Triathlon as well. 51 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,700 And now do some bike racing. Some mountain biking and I still 52 00:02:38,700 --> 00:02:42,900 like to run in my spare time. Also a lot of my running this 53 00:02:42,900 --> 00:02:46,500 past year was with the New York Red Bulls and doing a lot of 54 00:02:46,500 --> 00:02:49,200 return to sport with the athletes as soccer players. 55 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,400 Specifically, don't love to do conditioning on their own. 56 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,000 As at that mentality from Runners is definitely a little 57 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:58,500 bit different from on an individual basis, but now I do a 58 00:02:58,508 --> 00:03:01,300 lot more mountain biking to, but I certainly understand that 59 00:03:01,300 --> 00:03:04,700 mindset of the training component and everything that 60 00:03:04,700 --> 00:03:07,300 goes into it and working towards events or just doing it for a 61 00:03:07,308 --> 00:03:10,200 healthy lifestyle to so, but yeah. 62 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,600 So physical therapist by trade. Have been a physical therapist 63 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:16,100 for too long now. Probably a little over 10, 11 64 00:03:16,100 --> 00:03:21,900 years and yeah, I started out working in a physical therapy 65 00:03:21,900 --> 00:03:24,700 clinic that we just saw a lot of people per hours, a higher, 66 00:03:24,700 --> 00:03:28,800 volume type of place, and it was really great experience because 67 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,000 you get to see See, a lot of different things and in a very 68 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:37,200 dense shorter period of time. But I also found out that it 69 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,300 limited the way I felt like, I could help somebody, just 70 00:03:40,300 --> 00:03:46,200 utilizing what my skills were. And and I felt like I could, I 71 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,800 could do more for someone than what the context of the 72 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,200 environment was, you know, had great mentorship and has helped 73 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:55,800 guide me into, you know, what I do today, but I knew it was 74 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,400 looking for something different. So 20 in 2016, is when I started 75 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:03,200 goal and This is just me, it is I was renting space from a gym 76 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:08,400 and and learned a lot in that time period to where we are now 77 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,400 and fast tracking to. Now go, we have our facility in 78 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:14,200 Westport. We have an amazing team here 79 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,899 that candidly wouldn't be where we are today without them so you 80 00:04:17,908 --> 00:04:22,900 know, like to thank them first is definitely always my goal 81 00:04:22,900 --> 00:04:27,200 because they're the best but you know Jeff Bezos. 82 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,400 So he says to make decisions you know knowing 80 percent of the 83 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:32,300 information is enough because if you wait till you know 84 00:04:32,300 --> 00:04:34,700 everything you've just waited too long and missed opportunity 85 00:04:34,900 --> 00:04:38,000 and I think when I started goal, I probably knew 25% of the 86 00:04:38,008 --> 00:04:42,600 information and realize it was in over my head sometimes, but 87 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,500 I'm generally good at taking risk and jumping off the cliff 88 00:04:45,500 --> 00:04:48,500 and building the plane on the way down and somehow have a safe 89 00:04:48,500 --> 00:04:52,400 landing but but yeah. So when I, you know, after about 90 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:53,800 a year or so and it was just myself. 91 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:58,000 My wife actually joined now with me as physical therapist to, and 92 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,100 that was a big launch pad. For us to help create a lot more 93 00:05:01,100 --> 00:05:04,500 structure around our business. Everything we do is one-on-one 94 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:06,700 treatment sessions. It's all an hour that's kind of 95 00:05:06,700 --> 00:05:08,900 like that's, that's the what we do. 96 00:05:08,900 --> 00:05:11,600 But know, we always say what we're doing, we are is built for 97 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,200 the athlete in the athlete inside of us. 98 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,100 You know, we wanted to create a scenario where it was really 99 00:05:16,100 --> 00:05:20,700 full support for that person from a rehab perspective from a 100 00:05:20,700 --> 00:05:22,000 strength and conditioning perspective. 101 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,100 We offer both of those as our primary services but you know, 102 00:05:25,100 --> 00:05:29,800 there's There's so much time within that hour, which often 103 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,600 isn't enough time sometimes. As I'm sure you know that like 104 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,200 you want to talk about and really get to know somebody and 105 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:37,400 learn how you can help them. But then you also end up going 106 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:41,600 down these these rabbit holes of sleep and nutrition and and the 107 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,300 mentality and and and all those components that go into an 108 00:05:45,300 --> 00:05:47,700 injury to number one, have the best outcome you had can and 109 00:05:47,700 --> 00:05:53,300 then really empowering someone to to help manage themselves as 110 00:05:53,300 --> 00:05:55,600 well? Because ultimately is as much as 111 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,700 yes, it's great for Business. But you also want someone to 112 00:05:58,700 --> 00:06:01,000 have that freedom to do things on their own, so they don't 113 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,400 always need someone or need someone for that help and they 114 00:06:03,408 --> 00:06:06,600 can do things themselves to. So, you know, that was such a 115 00:06:06,608 --> 00:06:11,200 big foundation of of why we started goal and and you know, 116 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,600 it's grown from from just myself, you know, renting a 10 117 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,700 by 10 cents or a hundred square foot room. 118 00:06:16,700 --> 00:06:21,500 I guess to what we have now, with our team of about 10 of us 119 00:06:21,500 --> 00:06:26,200 and and it's been a wild ride so far and I'm looking forward to 120 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:27,600 something. We have coming up in the future, 121 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:29,700 too. I've Loved following your 122 00:06:29,700 --> 00:06:33,900 journey with your business because for listeners who none 123 00:06:33,900 --> 00:06:36,700 of, you know, Mike and I live in the same area and I've known 124 00:06:36,700 --> 00:06:39,100 Mike for a while through bike racing and PT. 125 00:06:39,100 --> 00:06:43,300 And it was just so cool to see Mike's business grow from like 126 00:06:43,700 --> 00:06:45,600 one room and a gym to what it is. 127 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,800 Now, because that was kind of always my goal, as a PT to open 128 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:51,900 my own clinic. So, to see you doing it. 129 00:06:51,900 --> 00:06:55,300 And see, just your clinic growing and thriving, really 130 00:06:55,300 --> 00:06:57,800 inspired me to think. Think that, you know, that's 131 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,500 something I could do to you. And you know, now I'm a little 132 00:07:01,500 --> 00:07:05,900 under two years and with my own clinic and yeah it's it's 133 00:07:05,900 --> 00:07:08,300 life-changing. Isn't it just being able to 134 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:13,100 treat patients the way that, you know, they should be treated and 135 00:07:13,100 --> 00:07:18,200 not be limited by Insurance limitations or limited by 136 00:07:18,500 --> 00:07:20,900 ridiculous. Productivity, expectations. 137 00:07:20,900 --> 00:07:24,400 You could all your focus on is doing the right thing for the 138 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:25,800 individual patient. Yeah. 139 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:30,200 And I think Everybody's very aware, like I think people look 140 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,000 for that and want that too. And sometimes it's just a matter 141 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:37,300 of helping guide them and realized in that number one, 142 00:07:37,300 --> 00:07:42,000 there's so much more support out there, for, for regardless of 143 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:43,900 that demographic of person. There's so much more out there 144 00:07:43,900 --> 00:07:47,700 that you can utilize to help feed your goals of whether 145 00:07:47,700 --> 00:07:51,200 whether it is running, or, you know, 5K or Marathon, or if you 146 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:53,700 just, like, doing something for a hobby, I think there's a lot 147 00:07:53,700 --> 00:07:56,900 to there's a lot, you can explore and resources, and it's, 148 00:07:57,500 --> 00:08:00,600 it's fun to be able to provide at least some sort of Niche 149 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,300 within that, you know, within that Continuum of health and 150 00:08:04,300 --> 00:08:06,500 performance for someone. So it's, yeah. 151 00:08:06,500 --> 00:08:10,100 And the autonomy around doing that and and helping that 152 00:08:10,100 --> 00:08:12,500 person's really nice, you know, like, you know, and even though 153 00:08:12,500 --> 00:08:16,700 we have our sessions. But oftentimes, if there's no 154 00:08:17,100 --> 00:08:19,400 nothing in and around those hours, you know, sometimes we 155 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,600 find ourselves going an hour and a half or two hours of someone. 156 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:27,100 If they have time, of course, just because There's so much 157 00:08:27,100 --> 00:08:29,600 passion on both sides of things or someone seeking help and US 158 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,700 wanted to provide it that it's it's refreshing in a whole lot 159 00:08:32,700 --> 00:08:34,600 of fun. Yeah and I loved how you 160 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:39,299 mentioned like all of the like not not really non-physical but 161 00:08:39,299 --> 00:08:42,500 things that you don't often hear talked about in a regular PT 162 00:08:42,500 --> 00:08:47,500 Clinic nutrition, sleep stress. All of the things that can 163 00:08:47,500 --> 00:08:51,800 influence a person's pain or a person's ability to recover from 164 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,000 an injury. But often when you're seeing, 165 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,700 you know, 3, For patients an hour, you don't have time to 166 00:08:58,700 --> 00:09:01,900 address and you're not being reimbursed by insurance 167 00:09:01,900 --> 00:09:06,900 companies for doing so. But addressing those additional 168 00:09:06,900 --> 00:09:11,500 things is often key to somebody actually recovering from their 169 00:09:11,500 --> 00:09:14,300 issue. Yeah, you know, I think, I think 170 00:09:14,300 --> 00:09:17,000 the good thing about those higher volume places, is it 171 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,200 really helps you prioritize about like, okay, this this 172 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,400 person I have in front of me, like, what what do they need and 173 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:25,600 how can I help them? Most and it was within the 174 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:27,600 constraints. In the context we have. 175 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,800 But I'm going to start pulling some of the curtains back there. 176 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,500 You realize there's these other places that you can easily help 177 00:09:34,900 --> 00:09:38,100 create some guidance or just from a scope of practice 178 00:09:38,100 --> 00:09:39,700 perspective. The first one went to the person 179 00:09:39,700 --> 00:09:42,800 who's the best fit for them to help them in that way that this 180 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,000 can just help move the needle a little bit more provide that 181 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,800 extra motivation or support. Someone needs to help themselves 182 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:51,800 to. Yeah, definitely. 183 00:09:52,500 --> 00:09:56,200 So, how did you go from owning gold too? 184 00:09:56,500 --> 00:09:59,800 Working with the Red Bulls and the Red Bull company. 185 00:10:01,300 --> 00:10:08,500 So, you know, my focus has had always been 100% with goal and 186 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:10,500 and it still continues to at this point. 187 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,600 You know, I finished working with the New York Red Bulls. 188 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:15,900 A soccer team is at the end of January, the end of the 189 00:10:15,900 --> 00:10:22,600 preseason this year, mainly, because the lifestyle of it is 190 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,300 challenging and I have my wife at home, we have a 191 00:10:25,308 --> 00:10:28,300 two-and-a-half-year-old At home and and they are certainly my 192 00:10:28,300 --> 00:10:34,800 number one and and and you know working with in professional 193 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,000 sports in a lot of ways is an all-in type of commitment in its 194 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:43,600 it to find that balance is challenging and and it was just 195 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,600 the time for me that I knew I had to make that decision about 196 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:50,800 what's most important for me. But how I got involved with that 197 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,900 was a couple years ago I interviewed for another team and 198 00:10:54,900 --> 00:10:58,900 just remained Contact with them because there are there are also 199 00:10:58,900 --> 00:11:02,000 local Red Bull. We don't really talk about who 200 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,500 our Rivals are because especially with in the tri-state 201 00:11:04,500 --> 00:11:07,900 area. But but they were also local, so 202 00:11:07,900 --> 00:11:10,000 it kept a good working relationship with them because 203 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,300 at the youth levels, we see a lot of their athletes. 204 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:18,800 And when Rebel was looking for a physio, they were nice enough to 205 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,300 mention me. And and what we do here and and 206 00:11:22,900 --> 00:11:25,700 it was never really on my radar to work in Pro Sports, but I was 207 00:11:25,700 --> 00:11:28,100 just interested. And in testing the water. 208 00:11:28,100 --> 00:11:32,100 So, when I spoke to them the conversations, just kind of kept 209 00:11:32,100 --> 00:11:34,500 continuing and continuing them and they offered me a position. 210 00:11:34,500 --> 00:11:38,900 It was, you know, being soccer as one of my backgrounds and in 211 00:11:38,900 --> 00:11:41,000 sport, and that's my home Club to. 212 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,700 I just, I felt like my wife and I decided together that it was 213 00:11:43,700 --> 00:11:47,800 worth the risk to test out and knowing that I fortunately have 214 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,600 gold back home that if it wasn't something that I wanted to do, I 215 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:57,400 have there as as something to come back to as well. 216 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,200 So that made it easy to number one, take the risk and then and 217 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,500 know that I do have something else that I can do as well. 218 00:12:04,500 --> 00:12:07,100 But and then working with Red Bull sponsored athletes. 219 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,600 It was really fortunate, you know, Red Bull wanted to keep me 220 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,300 in there Rebel family. So we're currently in that 221 00:12:14,300 --> 00:12:18,400 transition process. Now of of what I'll be starting 222 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,700 to do is really working with them with them, with some of 223 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,600 their both, their competitions, or training camps, or Or events. 224 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,200 So, you know, they have a facility training facility, what 225 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,700 they call athletic Athlete Performance Center, a PC out in 226 00:12:32,700 --> 00:12:35,600 Austria and then one in Santa Monica, California as well. 227 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,700 So when either an applicant gets injured or they go there for 228 00:12:39,900 --> 00:12:45,200 periodic testing and assessment. You know, I may be going there 229 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,500 to help out sometimes, but a lot of times it's also just going to 230 00:12:48,500 --> 00:12:49,900 more their competition in events. 231 00:12:49,900 --> 00:12:52,100 And then, you know, if anyone's in this area there, obviously 232 00:12:52,100 --> 00:12:56,000 always welcome to goal to. So Which we've been lucky enough 233 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,600 to have one or two, do that so far, because I think 234 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,300 logistically, it helps a lot. So the nice thing about it is, 235 00:13:01,300 --> 00:13:04,300 I'm home so much more with my family and with my amazing team 236 00:13:04,300 --> 00:13:07,500 at goal and but I still get to be involved and what's an 237 00:13:07,500 --> 00:13:11,200 awesome company with with athletes of complete, diversity 238 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,900 and sport that I really never worked with before, as well. 239 00:13:13,900 --> 00:13:18,100 So that in itself is really fascinating, yeah, your must 240 00:13:18,100 --> 00:13:20,400 really be expanding your horizons because Red Bull 241 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:24,800 sponsors, athletes in pretty much every sport imaginable. 242 00:13:25,100 --> 00:13:28,500 Including some pretty wild sports uh, yeah. 243 00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:30,200 You know. It's like you know when you you 244 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,000 buy a car and then all of a sudden, you see it all over the 245 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,200 place on the road. That's what I noticed when I 246 00:13:35,208 --> 00:13:38,500 joined the Red Bull team to all of a sudden. 247 00:13:38,500 --> 00:13:41,200 You know, they're big on their brand being on your head. 248 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,600 So it's a Hatter helmet all of a sudden. 249 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,700 I see them everywhere in the Tour, de France is in 250 00:13:47,900 --> 00:13:50,900 skateboarding and snowboarding and mountain biking and 251 00:13:50,900 --> 00:13:53,600 something that in skydiving something I never even realized 252 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,600 you know, there are they I really do have a very big Global 253 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:00,100 brand, and it's fascinating to learn about a lot of those 254 00:14:00,100 --> 00:14:02,600 different sports. Do, you know, I've worked with, 255 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,200 you know, one of the athletes. I've worked with recently. 256 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:07,300 Number One, never worked with someone in that sport before. 257 00:14:07,300 --> 00:14:09,500 And then number two, never really had to think about what 258 00:14:09,500 --> 00:14:12,600 the demands of that sport were from a rehab and training 259 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,000 perspective. So it's been challenging and a 260 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,300 whole lot of fun. Yeah, it's fun to take like your 261 00:14:19,300 --> 00:14:22,600 current skill set and expand and learn something new and then 262 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,600 apply it to an athlete. Who Maybe you haven't considered 263 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,400 what their needs are and then, you know, hopefully seeing them 264 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,300 succeed. Absolutely well, awesome. 265 00:14:33,300 --> 00:14:37,100 So we're going to get into the main segments of our podcast in 266 00:14:37,100 --> 00:14:39,500 just a minute. But first, we want to do our 267 00:14:39,500 --> 00:14:41,800 subjective question for a listeners. 268 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:46,300 So since we're talking to Mike, and he works with so many pro 269 00:14:46,300 --> 00:14:49,300 athletes, I want our listeners to imagine. 270 00:14:49,300 --> 00:14:53,100 If you had unlimited time for running, if you were a pro, what 271 00:14:53,100 --> 00:14:54,900 would you change about your training routine? 272 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,900 Mmmmm, I don't know. Mike, what would your change? 273 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,100 Yeah, I mean, for me it's pretty easy. 274 00:15:00,100 --> 00:15:02,400 I do, like, I said earlier have a two-and-a-half-year-old at 275 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:06,100 home, so if I had a limited time, I would 100% prioritize 276 00:15:06,100 --> 00:15:08,800 sleep more but that's not always up to me. 277 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,900 And I don't always have that control over my sleep schedule 278 00:15:11,900 --> 00:15:14,000 because sometimes our daughter, just decides, we're going to 279 00:15:14,008 --> 00:15:17,700 wake up at 5:15, and that's how the day is going to go party 280 00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:21,000 before the sun comes up, right? There's no doubt about it. 281 00:15:22,700 --> 00:15:24,600 Yeah, I would agree with that sleep. 282 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,400 I mean, you and I both know, sleep is so important for 283 00:15:27,700 --> 00:15:31,100 athletes in terms of recovery and just adapting to training. 284 00:15:31,500 --> 00:15:34,200 So yeah, having a little more time for sleep. 285 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:39,000 Maybe having a little more time for all of the like non-training 286 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,200 things. So like the recovery stuff that 287 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:47,400 helps you absorb the training you're doing but I think we can. 288 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:51,200 All agree that getting a little more sleep is a benefit for most 289 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:55,300 athletes. So, next Mike, I want to talk to 290 00:15:55,300 --> 00:15:58,500 you a little more about your clinic here in Westport goal. 291 00:15:59,300 --> 00:16:02,200 So we already talked a little bit about, like, how your 292 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,500 founded that practice and what led you to do that. 293 00:16:04,500 --> 00:16:09,100 So, let's talk a little bit about for a listeners, how can 294 00:16:09,100 --> 00:16:12,800 our listeners identify? What a high-quality PT Clinic 295 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,300 is, you know, there's PT clinics everywhere. 296 00:16:16,300 --> 00:16:19,400 If you live in like even a small metropolitan area, you've 297 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,800 probably got three or four clinics to choose from So how 298 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,200 can they know that they're going to a high-quality Clinic? 299 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:27,900 What are some of those attributes? 300 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,000 I think finding one sometimes can be challenging because it is 301 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,000 so dense, right? Even just, if you drive down 302 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:38,200 Post Road, where we are, there's probably eight different options 303 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:42,800 so it can be overwhelming. You know, I think especially in 304 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,300 Endurance, Sports are such a big Community around regardless of 305 00:16:46,300 --> 00:16:48,500 what the sport is, whether it's running, triathlons, cycling 306 00:16:48,500 --> 00:16:52,200 cetera, I probably, you know, in my community there. 307 00:16:52,300 --> 00:16:55,400 Help find the appropriate resource for me, first and 308 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,200 foremost because it was recommendations are really 309 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,200 valuable. But I think from qualities 310 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,100 you're looking for in a clinic or a person. 311 00:17:01,500 --> 00:17:03,500 I think they're very foundational on like, more of a 312 00:17:03,508 --> 00:17:07,599 human level 2, like finding a physio, who can listen and can 313 00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:10,599 truly, truly listen and care. You know, I think a lot of times 314 00:17:11,300 --> 00:17:14,200 when you have a conversation with someone that other person 315 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,099 is thinking so much about what they want to say next to add to 316 00:17:17,099 --> 00:17:20,000 the conversation and don't always really truly digest what 317 00:17:20,008 --> 00:17:23,800 you're saying. So you know When in our 318 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,599 evaluations like a lot of times I'll just ask a question and 319 00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:31,200 then just sit back and just let someone talk because to jump in 320 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,000 in the middle of that and cut them off and go down a specific 321 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,100 way of, you know, if they took mentioned something about 322 00:17:36,100 --> 00:17:37,400 training and then all of a sudden you're like well what 323 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,100 kind of shoes are how many miles a week or whatever that is like 324 00:17:40,100 --> 00:17:43,100 you know when you let them just talk and they start to open up 325 00:17:43,100 --> 00:17:46,100 more and give you more information than you think you 326 00:17:46,100 --> 00:17:49,200 or then you would have gotten otherwise you know, because I 327 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,900 think when you start to interject too much, you find 328 00:17:51,900 --> 00:17:54,100 out. Two sessions later they're like, 329 00:17:54,100 --> 00:17:57,400 oh yeah, I broke my ankle too. It's like why didn't that come 330 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,300 up and past medical history? And I think sometimes it's 331 00:17:59,300 --> 00:18:01,500 because they can't really get into a flow of communicating if 332 00:18:01,900 --> 00:18:03,800 that well. So I think that's one of the 333 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:08,300 biggest and most important skill sets you know a good physio can 334 00:18:08,300 --> 00:18:11,100 have I got a good facility, I think you know with the 335 00:18:11,108 --> 00:18:14,700 community around Endurance Sports, I think Community around 336 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,700 the place you go to for rehab and training is is really 337 00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:22,300 important that they share the same values and health and If 338 00:18:22,308 --> 00:18:26,500 style and performance to, I don't necessarily think someone, 339 00:18:26,500 --> 00:18:29,300 if you're a runner, you need to go to always have to go to a run 340 00:18:29,300 --> 00:18:32,500 specific facility because I think you know at least here we 341 00:18:32,500 --> 00:18:35,200 try to take like an athlete first perspective so we think 342 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,800 they're really kind of core things as an athlete or as a 343 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,200 person you really should be able to do from a health and 344 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,800 performance perspective. And then that last 10% is really 345 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,100 what differentiates the cyclist from a footballer to the to the 346 00:18:47,100 --> 00:18:51,800 mountain biker or something like that so that good community and 347 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:53,300 culture. Sure about where you re having 348 00:18:53,300 --> 00:18:57,900 trained as a is awesome. And then somewhere that empowers 349 00:18:58,100 --> 00:19:01,200 the client to learn, and to take ownership to, you know, I think 350 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:05,000 sometimes when we have an injury, you may see. 351 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,700 So something say, see this as well as like someone falls on 352 00:19:07,700 --> 00:19:10,700 YouTube for you to give them the answer and as much as we might 353 00:19:10,700 --> 00:19:14,000 help guide them and figure that out, it really comes down to 354 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:18,200 them. Really feeling like they can 355 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,900 take ownership over it and they don't need to always just rely 356 00:19:20,900 --> 00:19:23,300 on somebody. So I think if someone is truly 357 00:19:23,300 --> 00:19:25,800 listening to you and it's a place, you feel motivated to be 358 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,100 and I can support you and you leave there, feeling empowered 359 00:19:29,100 --> 00:19:32,200 that you can do it yourself. I think that's that's the most 360 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,600 important thing and I think more so than being being a physical 361 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,300 therapist, I think that's probably one of my better skills 362 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:40,900 more so than helping someone with actual rehab, but just 363 00:19:40,900 --> 00:19:43,900 helping someone kind of open the doors and realize they can help 364 00:19:43,900 --> 00:19:47,900 manage it themselves to is. Is is probably one of my better 365 00:19:47,900 --> 00:19:50,100 skills, but those will probably be the top three things I would 366 00:19:50,100 --> 00:19:53,600 look for in a place. And, and somewhere that's that 367 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,100 from a physical perspective is just built out to support some. 368 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,800 You know, someone like you as well, you know even here like we 369 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,200 have a strip of turf so people can run Sprint, change of 370 00:20:01,208 --> 00:20:04,500 directions stuff like that. Whereas in some types type of 371 00:20:04,500 --> 00:20:07,900 facilities they may not really be built out to help support 372 00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:10,600 someone in that nature also. All right. 373 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,800 Yeah, yeah, I love that. You know getting back to what 374 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,500 you said about listening. Brought to mind a couple of 375 00:20:16,500 --> 00:20:18,400 things. One, the famous quote, I think 376 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,200 from dr. William Osler, who said, listen 377 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,800 to your patient, he will tell you the diagnosis and it's so 378 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,200 true. If you just let somebody talk, 379 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:31,300 they will give you so much more information than if you keep 380 00:20:31,300 --> 00:20:34,300 interrupting them with specific questions. 381 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,700 And the other thing is, I remember that there are some 382 00:20:37,700 --> 00:20:41,400 research study that found that, I think it was done on primary 383 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:46,100 care doctors, but that on average patients are Allowed to 384 00:20:46,100 --> 00:20:50,600 talk for like two minutes before their doctor interrupts them and 385 00:20:51,300 --> 00:20:54,600 that it's a good thing. For all Healthcare practitioners 386 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,400 to remember, is that keep your mouth shut, let your patient 387 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,900 talk, you will learn so much more from listening than from 388 00:21:02,900 --> 00:21:07,100 interrupting and asking like forcing the conversation to go 389 00:21:07,100 --> 00:21:10,200 in the direction, you think it should go because you might miss 390 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,700 like that them telling you about their ankle fracture, that 391 00:21:13,700 --> 00:21:16,900 absolutely could be involved in. The near the hip pain that 392 00:21:16,900 --> 00:21:20,000 they're there to see her for, I mean, how many times have you 393 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:21,800 seen a patient who comes in? They're like, yeah, I went to my 394 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,700 doctor and they saw me for two minutes and I'm even asked six 395 00:21:25,700 --> 00:21:28,600 of the questions I planned on asking and a lot of times that's 396 00:21:28,900 --> 00:21:30,100 that ends up being the reason why. 397 00:21:30,100 --> 00:21:32,700 It's because they don't feel like they have control of that 398 00:21:32,700 --> 00:21:34,200 situation. And I think, right? 399 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,900 Just stepping back and listening just allows that that client to 400 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,000 help really take control for themselves to. 401 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:44,500 Yeah, you know, I think you're and I both started out when you 402 00:21:44,500 --> 00:21:48,300 started as a PT were you on electronic medical record or 403 00:21:48,300 --> 00:21:51,300 paper documentation? It's bad that I can't remember. 404 00:21:52,500 --> 00:21:57,100 I think, I think we were already on emrs, but it, but it was 405 00:21:57,100 --> 00:22:01,300 recent, it was probably okay, within 18 months prior to that 406 00:22:01,300 --> 00:22:04,000 because I worked at that company prior to being a physical 407 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,400 therapist that I think we made that transition. 408 00:22:06,700 --> 00:22:11,000 I think well I'm going to date myself then because when I 409 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:15,100 graduated definitely still on paper records and having a 410 00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:17,000 laugh. Stop between you and your 411 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,400 patient, really interferes with communication. 412 00:22:20,700 --> 00:22:26,200 So I really tend to either put the laptop aside and just listen 413 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,700 and then say, okay, give me a minute. 414 00:22:28,700 --> 00:22:32,500 So I can write this down or I just keep it aside and I 415 00:22:32,500 --> 00:22:35,700 document like periodically throughout the visit because 416 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:40,400 having that impersonal object of a laptop between you and your 417 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,800 patient, especially somebody that you're meeting for the 418 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:48,500 first time can really just Just interfere with first developing 419 00:22:48,500 --> 00:22:52,100 a rapport with that person, but also them feeling comfortable 420 00:22:52,100 --> 00:22:55,200 enough to open up to you and give you the information that 421 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,400 you need to help them. Yeah, you know, for sure. 422 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,900 I think we have an internship program here to for 423 00:23:02,900 --> 00:23:06,000 strengthening, and for, for physical therapy for clinical 424 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,900 rotations. And one one thing I always do, 425 00:23:08,900 --> 00:23:10,800 when I'm talking, when I talk to them, I was like, I take out my 426 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,700 phone and hold it in my hand, all right? 427 00:23:12,700 --> 00:23:16,200 And I'll have a conversation with them and After, it's a big. 428 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,500 Hey, how did you feel about me holding my cell phone in my 429 00:23:18,500 --> 00:23:19,400 hand? They're like well, kind of 430 00:23:19,408 --> 00:23:21,000 distracted. Me and I didn't really hear all 431 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,900 your thing I was like exactly. Right. 432 00:23:22,900 --> 00:23:24,900 So it's like when we're here, we're here for the person that's 433 00:23:24,900 --> 00:23:28,300 in front of us and we shouldn't have those things as a 434 00:23:28,300 --> 00:23:30,800 distraction waiting for a text or a message, even if it's from 435 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,600 a doctor, like we can check that an appropriate time, right? 436 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:38,200 And it's so not having those things there is is valuable in 437 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,900 terms of the full, you know, client experience to. 438 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:42,800 Oh absolutely. Yeah. 439 00:23:44,300 --> 00:23:48,800 So I wanted to Ask you about just how does your clinic assess 440 00:23:49,100 --> 00:23:51,600 Runners, what? So we all know that running 441 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,700 requires high levels of strength, Force development 442 00:23:54,700 --> 00:23:57,800 range of motion flexibility, cardiovascular fitness. 443 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,600 So if you have a injured Runner coming in to see you, besides 444 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,400 all of the usual tests that you learned in PT school, what 445 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,900 higher level, performance tests might you use with your Runner 446 00:24:08,900 --> 00:24:12,700 patient's? Yeah so I really think that 447 00:24:12,700 --> 00:24:15,400 depends and I hate giving that answer but oh no. 448 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,800 Answer. I'll provide a little bit more 449 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,000 context, you know. I think there's still there's so 450 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,200 many different tools you can test people with tonight and I 451 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,000 think you know especially like my inbox is gets flooded with 452 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,700 the different technologies that are out and everybody wants to 453 00:24:30,700 --> 00:24:36,900 add a subscription for you. But I think it really depends on 454 00:24:36,900 --> 00:24:38,800 just like almost in peer-reviewed literature. 455 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,200 What question do you want to answer, right? 456 00:24:41,500 --> 00:24:45,800 So that really helps guide us and in creating basically, IE an 457 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:50,300 athlete or a client profile. So within that, we're looking at 458 00:24:50,300 --> 00:24:52,400 a lot of foundational. Things of what I would say, like 459 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,900 a movement archetype, but like just think about, like just good 460 00:24:54,900 --> 00:24:57,800 quality movement. So if you, we could talk about 461 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,200 native range of motion or Baseline range of motion, but 462 00:25:00,300 --> 00:25:03,000 just looking at something like a lunge or a squat, I think 463 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,900 Forerunner specifically look at State like a single leg, calf 464 00:25:05,900 --> 00:25:09,200 raise to fatigue, and you can look at asymmetry of those and 465 00:25:09,500 --> 00:25:13,600 looking at what the strength component is there Runners, 466 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:15,300 you're assessing ankle dorsiflexion. 467 00:25:15,500 --> 00:25:18,600 Is your range of motion there, too, but that's also a potential 468 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:23,200 risk factor for injury like Achilles injuries to other 469 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,100 things. We'll do is well, I think 470 00:25:25,100 --> 00:25:29,000 depending on the person and their, their training age, their 471 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,800 time in a gym, the injuries they've had as well is doing any 472 00:25:33,900 --> 00:25:35,200 we have it. What's called the Dual Force 473 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,200 play system? So it's basically to four 474 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,200 sensors on the ground where you can jump, whether you want to do 475 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,800 a double leg jump or single like jump, there's different testing 476 00:25:44,100 --> 00:25:47,200 that has different testing. Profiles but there's also a ton 477 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,600 of data. We get from that, from your 478 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:54,000 power production to looking at your left and right symmetry how 479 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,000 quickly you generate Force, you mention rate of force 480 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,100 development as well. And I, and I think that all goes 481 00:25:59,100 --> 00:26:02,000 back to what questions we want to answer, you know, if 482 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,800 someone's having an Achilles injury for example, you know, 483 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:07,500 maybe we can see that. Oh yeah. 484 00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:12,400 Well, there's a 26% asymmetry in this phase of your jumping and 485 00:26:12,700 --> 00:26:15,100 maybe more single like jumping if we're talking about a runner 486 00:26:15,100 --> 00:26:18,000 since The effectively went running isn't on some 487 00:26:18,100 --> 00:26:21,900 Progressive Way and it might just help give us some 488 00:26:21,900 --> 00:26:25,900 information to use when we're creating a treatment or a 489 00:26:25,900 --> 00:26:29,800 training plan for somebody, and I think that's really important 490 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:31,100 things. It's only one piece of 491 00:26:31,100 --> 00:26:34,100 information and it's out of context of a sport to. 492 00:26:34,100 --> 00:26:37,300 So it's putting you on some steel plates, having a jump and 493 00:26:37,308 --> 00:26:39,100 you're looking at a computer and looking at all these numbers. 494 00:26:39,100 --> 00:26:44,200 So it does help provide some information and also help show 495 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,500 somebody Regress as you reassessed. 496 00:26:46,500 --> 00:26:50,600 So let's say, you know for other injuries will test weekly. 497 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,400 But for let's say, if it's a chronic type injury like an 498 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,700 overuse injury, patellar tendinopathy, or Achilles, 499 00:26:55,700 --> 00:26:59,100 Achilles tendon injury will probably test a little bit less 500 00:26:59,100 --> 00:27:01,300 frequently because we may not see as quick of a change. 501 00:27:01,300 --> 00:27:04,400 But then when you go back to it and you look at it, historically 502 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,100 over, let's say a three month period you'd be like oh that 503 00:27:07,100 --> 00:27:10,200 asymmetries cleaning up our oh my my Force development has 504 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,400 increased or creating Force quicker and those are things I 505 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,700 think number one that show the At that. 506 00:27:15,700 --> 00:27:18,700 Hey I am trending better and I'm getting better with all this 507 00:27:18,700 --> 00:27:22,000 effort I'm putting in and I think kind of bigger picture. 508 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,100 It helps just give us more information if we want to track 509 00:27:24,100 --> 00:27:31,100 longer term for that person to as well, definitely and that 510 00:27:31,100 --> 00:27:35,500 type of yearsing, the Dual forceplates to get rate of force 511 00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:40,000 development and all of those measures can also be useful over 512 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,800 time. Let's say that person came in 513 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:47,300 for like, a check-up every 6 to 12 months, If you see their 514 00:27:47,300 --> 00:27:51,200 single leg hopping rate of force development trending in the 515 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,200 wrong direction, you might be able to catch an injury before 516 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,400 it happens. Yeah, I mean for sure I think I 517 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,100 think kind of like I mentioned earlier it depends on how 518 00:28:03,100 --> 00:28:06,300 frequently I think when you measure frequently it gives you 519 00:28:06,300 --> 00:28:08,800 more information because there's also stuff that can kind of tell 520 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,000 you about fatigue or any changes with that. 521 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,100 So like when you measure, let's say it's once every 6 months or 522 00:28:15,100 --> 00:28:19,300 1, Here, you know, I don't know if someone ran 20 miles a day 523 00:28:19,300 --> 00:28:21,900 before where everything is going to be subdued. 524 00:28:21,900 --> 00:28:24,800 So if I'm comparing it to something, six months earlier, 525 00:28:25,100 --> 00:28:27,400 it probably isn't going to show necessarily progress. 526 00:28:28,300 --> 00:28:30,700 So when you have a bigger bolus of information, it helps provide 527 00:28:30,700 --> 00:28:34,900 a little bit more context to it, but I think, you know, a PT 528 00:28:34,900 --> 00:28:37,800 checkup. So to say periodically is is 529 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,900 really valuable but I think kind of bigger picture that it's also 530 00:28:40,900 --> 00:28:44,400 important to really formulate your go to people who are in 531 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,000 your corner. Your number one, your overall 532 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,400 health, but but especially feeding your athletic 533 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,800 performance to, whether it's a physio your strength 534 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,200 conditioning coach nutrition, is your mindset, coach things like 535 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,800 that. You know, there are things that 536 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,800 are readily available on at the professional level, but I think 537 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:07,700 in today's world it's much more accessible now for all of us 538 00:29:07,700 --> 00:29:13,200 more amateur athletes to so, but yeah, no, I think that's having 539 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:18,300 some sort of PT checkup or Or, you know, kind of like you'd 540 00:29:18,300 --> 00:29:21,300 have your Anika annual physical with your general practitioners 541 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,200 is definitely a valuable valuable tool and use the time. 542 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,600 Yeah, I absolutely agree idea that a lot for the runners and 543 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,800 cyclists that I work with and it it just helps people. 544 00:29:31,300 --> 00:29:35,100 Stay on track, you can update like what the appropriate 545 00:29:35,100 --> 00:29:38,500 strength exercises they should be doing our your it's a good 546 00:29:38,500 --> 00:29:43,000 chance to review their training. Make sure there are any things 547 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,200 that are kind of like flashing warning sign. 548 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:50,600 Signs and people appreciate having, you know, that 549 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,600 relationship where your PT really gets what you're doing, 550 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,800 they understand your training background. 551 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,200 They're not like starting over with a new person. 552 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:04,300 Every time they come in, they your their person who understand 553 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,500 the physical aspect of their training. 554 00:30:07,100 --> 00:30:10,500 Yeah, and I think it provides a platform that can easily ask 555 00:30:10,500 --> 00:30:15,800 questions and I think in especially within In running, a 556 00:30:15,808 --> 00:30:19,600 lot of times injuries can be when I say more chronic, they 557 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,000 like creep up a little bit slower. 558 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,000 You know, in soccer. We oftentimes what if we have a 559 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,000 hamstring injury like you can you know exactly when it 560 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,700 happened oftentimes especially Rebel like we'll have it on film 561 00:30:30,700 --> 00:30:33,700 and training or in a match that you can watch it happen and when 562 00:30:33,700 --> 00:30:37,100 you look back in it and there's a specific mechanism there. 563 00:30:37,100 --> 00:30:40,500 Whereas if it's a, if it's a running related injuries, 564 00:30:40,500 --> 00:30:42,700 sometimes those are chronic load related. 565 00:30:42,700 --> 00:30:46,300 Type injuries where You know that six month or a year, 566 00:30:46,300 --> 00:30:49,100 checkup might be enough to just have that conversation of 567 00:30:49,100 --> 00:30:52,400 they're like yeah, you know, my achilles every time I run starts 568 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,200 to feel a little sore but you know, 12 minutes in it. 569 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,500 Starts to go away and doesn't really hurt again till half an 570 00:30:58,500 --> 00:31:00,800 hour afterwards. Like, well, let's dive a little 571 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,600 bit deeper into that. Maybe we can create some sort of 572 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,700 plan or solution based plan to make sure it doesn't become 573 00:31:07,700 --> 00:31:11,300 anything more than that as well. And then you end up losing time 574 00:31:11,300 --> 00:31:14,000 training and racing or depending on what your goal is. 575 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,300 Yeah, you know, I'm glad that you brought up the Dual Force 576 00:31:18,300 --> 00:31:22,100 plate in that testing because not limited to Runners but 577 00:31:22,100 --> 00:31:25,200 thinking about, like, athletes, coming back from ACL 578 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,900 reconstruction. We know that to really know when 579 00:31:28,900 --> 00:31:33,100 somebody is ready to return to sport it one, it takes a lot 580 00:31:33,100 --> 00:31:36,700 longer than we used to think it does with regards to like ACL 581 00:31:36,700 --> 00:31:40,200 reconstruction. And to, you really have to do 582 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:46,200 high-level functional tests like single leg hop for And some of 583 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:50,200 the other single like hopping type test to really see if there 584 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,500 is still a significant asymmetry. 585 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:57,900 So, and I've seen so many patients, particularly patients 586 00:31:57,900 --> 00:32:01,600 after ACL reconstruction where their insurance has cut them off 587 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,100 from further visits because you know, they can walk and they can 588 00:32:05,100 --> 00:32:08,600 go up and down stairs and a lot of insurance companies, don't 589 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,200 care if you can get back to playing basketball or playing 590 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:17,000 soccer. So for Or athletes who can do 591 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:21,200 all of the normal life things, but still not do their sport. 592 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,600 How can they know that? They're really ready to resume 593 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,100 training? Yeah, I think I think there are 594 00:32:27,108 --> 00:32:30,800 different levels to that. I think, you know, first of all, 595 00:32:30,808 --> 00:32:35,100 depends how we Define what training is because in my mind 596 00:32:35,100 --> 00:32:37,900 you can always train. It's just a matter of what it is 597 00:32:37,900 --> 00:32:40,500 or maybe the modality or there's always something we can do 598 00:32:40,500 --> 00:32:43,900 there. So and a lot of times, I'll use 599 00:32:43,900 --> 00:32:45,200 what? That basically, when I called 600 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,600 the bank analogy for that. So when someone has an injury, 601 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:52,200 if we think about three buckets, we have our medical bucket which 602 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,300 will lump kind of physio into our training bucket, which is 603 00:32:55,300 --> 00:32:56,900 going to be more like strength and conditioning base and then 604 00:32:56,900 --> 00:33:00,500 our sport bucket which would be running, you know, when an 605 00:33:00,500 --> 00:33:04,100 injury happens, lets you know, maybe nine of the ten dollars we 606 00:33:04,100 --> 00:33:07,800 have to spend each day. Currently you know in the acute 607 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,500 phase is all in that medical bucket and you have a dollar to 608 00:33:10,500 --> 00:33:13,700 spend in that training phase, where maybe that means you're 609 00:33:13,700 --> 00:33:16,500 doing some upper body stuff when it because your ankles injured 610 00:33:16,500 --> 00:33:19,300 or you're doing some swimming or something like that. 611 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,900 So and then as you kind of progress on that Continuum, you 612 00:33:21,900 --> 00:33:24,000 kind of shift a couple of those dollars are going to spend. 613 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:25,300 Maybe it's a little more into training. 614 00:33:25,300 --> 00:33:28,100 So you still have some some medical some rehab. 615 00:33:28,100 --> 00:33:31,400 You're doing a little bit more training to and maybe now you 616 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:32,900 don't have to be non-weight-bearing in the pool, 617 00:33:32,900 --> 00:33:37,000 maybe that can shift more to some bike related work and then 618 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,400 you continue to shift more and more those dollar slowly into 619 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,300 your sport to. So, I think there's a difference 620 00:33:42,300 --> 00:33:47,200 between being out And not being able to train and being able to 621 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,000 do something, which going back to one of your earlier questions 622 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:51,200 to. I think if that's where it 623 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,000 really matters. What type of Provider you find 624 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,700 to because the answer of, well, if this hurts let's just 625 00:33:56,700 --> 00:33:58,000 completely rest and shut it down. 626 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,700 Just, I don't, I think in today's world isn't good enough 627 00:34:00,700 --> 00:34:04,300 and reckon. I do think there's as someone 628 00:34:04,300 --> 00:34:06,600 who I think is for me. I'm always a solution first 629 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,199 person. When there's a problem, I tend 630 00:34:08,199 --> 00:34:10,199 not to ruminate on that. It's like, okay, well how do we 631 00:34:10,199 --> 00:34:12,500 fix this and move forward? And then we can figure out how 632 00:34:12,507 --> 00:34:14,600 not to have that problem. Again, once we've Once we solve 633 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,199 this, but I think you really have to kind of assess it that 634 00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:21,699 way of, how much can you still do whether it's to maintain 635 00:34:21,699 --> 00:34:26,699 Fitness or just your sanity, but also help move you back towards 636 00:34:26,699 --> 00:34:30,800 your sport. But in terms of, you know, how 637 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,500 do we know when someone's ready? I think first question is like, 638 00:34:33,500 --> 00:34:37,100 are you still in pain right? And then, and then from there, 639 00:34:37,100 --> 00:34:40,000 we look at kind of have we store restored some of our native 640 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,100 range of motion. Can the joint in the tissue? 641 00:34:42,100 --> 00:34:46,699 Start to Some load again primarily in the gym. 642 00:34:46,699 --> 00:34:48,800 We would start with just because that's generally going to be 643 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,500 less Force created, then anything with running or 644 00:34:52,500 --> 00:34:57,000 sprinting to that nature and from there it's really a gradual 645 00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,700 progression. So if I look at running and 646 00:35:00,700 --> 00:35:04,900 regress it and kind of make it break it down into individual 647 00:35:04,900 --> 00:35:08,100 skills, I'd go back to some like you mentioned earlier as well 648 00:35:08,100 --> 00:35:10,700 like some hopping and skipping related Gerald's. 649 00:35:10,700 --> 00:35:15,600 So if they can handle low volume of Skip or a single like Hawk. 650 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,000 Well then maybe we can progress that a little bit too, doing 651 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,900 some lower volume low intensity, running on a softer surface and 652 00:35:21,900 --> 00:35:24,700 maybe that's a field first or a track first before you progress 653 00:35:24,700 --> 00:35:28,600 back to on the road running. So I think you just kind of have 654 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,000 to take your sport and regress, it to what you can tolerate and 655 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,600 then it's a slow build back up into that to. 656 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:39,000 So but you know, pain pain typically isn't normal, it's 657 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,600 usually a warning sign of your body telling you, hey something 658 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,100 may not be quite right, so that should be a good. 659 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,300 Indicator of. Let me go back to my team and 660 00:35:46,308 --> 00:35:48,600 have them check it out and then we can see it figure out how 661 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,900 much of my sport. I can continue to do and then 662 00:35:50,900 --> 00:35:54,300 where can I modify the stress in the load to allow myself to 663 00:35:54,300 --> 00:35:57,800 recover as well? Yeah, and I think Runners 664 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,100 definitely tend to not do that and they say, oh I'm having some 665 00:36:01,100 --> 00:36:04,600 pain but I can still run through it so I'm okay. 666 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:10,000 But of course the sooner you get it looked at the less likely it 667 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,800 is to turn into a problem that takes you out for several 668 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,500 months. And I think it was because Chris 669 00:36:16,500 --> 00:36:19,000 Johnson who's a runner physio as well. 670 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,400 He had mentioned I think this is the quote he said 80% of Runners 671 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:26,600 right at 80% of the intensity 80% of the time and I'm 100% 672 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,400 yeah guilty of that but you know you can't always hit full gas 673 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,300 all the time because certain tissues need longer time to 674 00:36:33,300 --> 00:36:35,300 recover than others and sometimes when we don't allow 675 00:36:35,300 --> 00:36:39,500 that, that's where some of those injuries, creep up on us but 676 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,800 that's a good quote from Chris Johnson. 677 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:46,600 That's funny. So last question regarding, like 678 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,700 just your general work with Goal, I know you've worked with 679 00:36:49,700 --> 00:36:52,100 some Elite and pro runners in the past. 680 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,000 So when a pro Runners injured, obviously their rehabs going to 681 00:36:56,008 --> 00:36:58,600 look a little different than someone with a full-time job. 682 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:00,700 So how am I? Let's say a prayer. 683 00:37:00,700 --> 00:37:05,800 Runner has achilles tendonitis. What might their rehab process 684 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,200 look like and maybe also, including more than just physio 685 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,900 like what are they doing with other providers to help them get 686 00:37:12,900 --> 00:37:15,300 back to? Their normal training. 687 00:37:15,300 --> 00:37:20,600 Yeah, one of the biggest things from from an elite Runner and 688 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,800 professional support perspective, is the immediate 689 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,500 access. You typically have to something. 690 00:37:25,500 --> 00:37:29,300 So, if you were I, or anyone else in our community to believe 691 00:37:29,300 --> 00:37:31,600 would get hurt, it's like, well, you know, this is feeling a 692 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,100 little bit hot and sore, but going to keep training and just 693 00:37:34,100 --> 00:37:36,900 see how it responds. And we don't really tell anybody 694 00:37:36,900 --> 00:37:41,100 where, as, you know, if one of the other Runners gets injured, 695 00:37:41,100 --> 00:37:44,400 you know, their athletic trainer their Gio's at the track with 696 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:45,800 them. Usually, if it's a team 697 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:47,700 training, sometimes if they're training remotely, it's 698 00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:53,000 different and but their head coaches, their their physio 699 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:54,400 athletic trainer is there as well. 700 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,800 So you immediately communicate hey, this wasn't really feeling 701 00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,600 right? You know your coach using his 702 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:03,700 skill set can either modify training or just watch you 703 00:38:03,700 --> 00:38:05,600 during training. See if anything is changing or 704 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,100 that's impacting the way you move and then you have immediate 705 00:38:09,100 --> 00:38:12,100 triage there to to assess it and potentially refer you to a team 706 00:38:12,100 --> 00:38:16,800 doctor or something like that. Part of part of I think what 707 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:21,000 helped so much when is just that that access you have two 708 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:25,500 different things at a quicker rate, but I think when we look 709 00:38:25,500 --> 00:38:27,900 at all of us as amateurs to, I think that can come back to us 710 00:38:27,900 --> 00:38:30,600 and be like well I can probably communicate better to people as 711 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,100 well when I am feeling something because it doesn't always mean I 712 00:38:33,100 --> 00:38:37,300 have to shut it down. But yeah, they have that access 713 00:38:37,300 --> 00:38:40,500 they have their people there with them as well and they have 714 00:38:40,500 --> 00:38:43,400 access to any sort of additional tests if they need to to Ooh. 715 00:38:43,408 --> 00:38:47,900 And you know, yearly physicals with all their team doctors and 716 00:38:47,900 --> 00:38:51,100 Specialists and as well that just can help provide them more 717 00:38:51,100 --> 00:38:54,600 information. So and yes, they have a little 718 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,300 bit more time in the day but believe it or not similar to the 719 00:38:57,300 --> 00:38:59,900 same challenges we have whether it's sleep or nutrition or 720 00:38:59,900 --> 00:39:02,100 anything. They fall victim to those same 721 00:39:02,100 --> 00:39:07,600 things too. So, you know, I with my Runners, 722 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,000 I haven't had those type of conversations as much, but my 723 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:16,000 soccer players. I 100% have So, so they have a 724 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,300 lot of the same challenges, they just have a little bit more time 725 00:39:18,300 --> 00:39:20,800 in the day to deal with it. And a lot of it is you know you 726 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,800 look at some of the things we're that are half percent so maybe a 727 00:39:23,808 --> 00:39:26,400 little bit more often, I get some soft tissue from my 728 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,200 physical therapist because I can help desensitize, the area, 729 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,600 prior to training and running that can just make it a little 730 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,400 bit more successful. So sometimes it's those little 731 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,500 things that just kind of help get you through the day and then 732 00:39:36,500 --> 00:39:40,100 it allows you other time frames where you're going to dive 733 00:39:40,100 --> 00:39:43,200 deeper into it and work on it, maybe after some key a race. 734 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:47,000 Aces or anything like that too. So yeah. 735 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,000 They have a little bit more support than we have at a more 736 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,500 immediate level. Yeah. 737 00:39:51,100 --> 00:39:54,300 So I, you know, and thinking how amateurs can learn from the 738 00:39:54,300 --> 00:39:56,300 pros. I think you hit the nail on the 739 00:39:56,300 --> 00:39:59,800 head like they have immediate access and one thing that 740 00:39:59,900 --> 00:40:03,300 amazingly a lot of people still don't know, is in Most states. 741 00:40:03,300 --> 00:40:05,200 I think it might actually be all states. 742 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:09,100 Now, people have direct access to physical therapy. 743 00:40:09,500 --> 00:40:13,300 So by law, you do not need to see a doctor and get a 744 00:40:13,500 --> 00:40:16,300 Description to go, see a physical therapist. 745 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,400 Now, your insurance company, might require you to get a 746 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:24,000 script for them to pay for it. But you can always see a PT 747 00:40:24,300 --> 00:40:28,500 outside of your insurance, with Medicare being the exception, 748 00:40:28,500 --> 00:40:34,600 but we won't get into that here without waiting to see a doctor. 749 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,100 So, I think people who are amateur Runners, who are 750 00:40:38,100 --> 00:40:40,900 starting to feel like a little twinge, in their knee, or their 751 00:40:40,900 --> 00:40:46,200 Achilles, or their back, just Go see your PT that, you know, and 752 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,900 have them check you out and it is better to get it looked at 753 00:40:49,900 --> 00:40:53,600 earlier than later and your might nip it in the bud and it 754 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,300 won't become a problem. Yeah. 755 00:40:55,300 --> 00:40:58,600 And I think anything, if it, if it is something that is a 756 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,100 challenge here, at least having those conversations immediately 757 00:41:01,100 --> 00:41:02,500 to move it in the right direction. 758 00:41:03,500 --> 00:41:05,800 But as your side with direct access, I always tell people. 759 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:07,700 So you can literally walk right into our facility off the 760 00:41:07,700 --> 00:41:10,500 streets and schedule an appointment. 761 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,200 If your insurance company does need more authorization or 762 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,800 Usually it's after the initial evaluation so you can certainly. 763 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,800 So next I want to kind of transition to talking about your 764 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:25,300 work with the Red Bulls team. And then with the Red Bulls 765 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,000 individual athletes. So we talked a little bit about 766 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,400 how working with them is different from your work at 767 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:35,700 goal, but I would love to just know more what it was like 768 00:41:35,700 --> 00:41:39,100 working with the team. Like, were you on the road every 769 00:41:39,100 --> 00:41:43,200 day of the week where you at all of their practices? 770 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,200 Has all of their games. How did it work out for you yet? 771 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:52,800 You know, we Red Bull we, you know, physical therapists in 772 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,800 soccer in the United States. Ironically isn't really common. 773 00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,100 It's becoming more common but it's very athletic training 774 00:41:59,100 --> 00:42:02,700 driven in that sense, which and we had some amazing athletic 775 00:42:02,700 --> 00:42:04,800 trainers at Red Bull and was really awesome to be part of 776 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,700 that team. But so we actually had to 777 00:42:07,700 --> 00:42:10,000 physical therapists on staff. So we alternated a lot of the 778 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,800 games we traveled for. So if there's 34 games in a Are 779 00:42:14,900 --> 00:42:17,600 half of those being home, I probably ended up traveling, you 780 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,500 know, six to eight of them last year, if I reflect back to it. 781 00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,200 But yeah, you're at every every home game for sure, every single 782 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:29,600 training session to. And yeah, the nice thing about 783 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,100 it is, it's it's full service in full support, right? 784 00:42:32,100 --> 00:42:35,400 So there's you have your physical therapist in your 785 00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,800 athletic trainers, on the performance side, your strength 786 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,600 conditioning coaches, and your, your head of performance is 787 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:45,700 really manage kind of the load of training, you know, that 788 00:42:45,700 --> 00:42:50,000 would, that would be analogous to, you know, that the weekly 789 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,800 periodization of a running plan is what kind of ahead of 790 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:56,600 performance does to and write down the hall. 791 00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:58,300 You have your coaching staff and write down the hall. 792 00:42:58,300 --> 00:43:01,700 My favorite place is you had at the cafeteria which was always 793 00:43:01,700 --> 00:43:03,400 awesome. So Breck two meals a day 794 00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,200 prepared for you. It's pretty sweet but and then 795 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:11,000 let's count that know. It's it's it's a it's also 796 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,600 Financial perky don't always account for On a weekly basis to 797 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:19,800 so it has its pros for sure. The only downside is it's always 798 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:25,800 immediately available but but yeah at the facilities to, you 799 00:43:25,808 --> 00:43:30,000 know, right outside our door we have to really perfect pitches 800 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,100 that that the grounds crew always have to, you know, a 801 00:43:33,108 --> 00:43:35,200 certain softness and density as well. 802 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,900 Because that's that has shown to help from an injury perspective 803 00:43:38,900 --> 00:43:43,200 to and then our gym in our recovery section 2. 804 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,100 So so it's it's going back to kind of, you know, immediate 805 00:43:46,100 --> 00:43:48,400 access that of our Elite Runners have had. 806 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:53,200 I mean, it's no different in professional soccer to and and 807 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,900 you know, I think with running sometimes it an elite team might 808 00:43:56,900 --> 00:43:59,200 have different athletes doing different events and different 809 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,500 places where the soccer team always travels is one unit. 810 00:44:02,500 --> 00:44:06,300 So it's a lot less Remote Management and a lot more in 811 00:44:06,300 --> 00:44:09,600 person management to. So, with your individual 812 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:13,200 athletes, who are traveling quite a bit, are you? 813 00:44:13,300 --> 00:44:16,800 A lot of like Telehealth visits or are you communicating? 814 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:21,300 Maybe with local physios, who are aware that athlete is 815 00:44:21,300 --> 00:44:24,100 competing. How does that work out in terms 816 00:44:24,100 --> 00:44:29,600 of continuity of care? It's a little, it depends on the 817 00:44:29,608 --> 00:44:31,600 situation. A lot of times, I'll manage help 818 00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:36,200 manage them remotely. We had one athlete who was at a 819 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,900 training camp in Arizona, who actually one of Red Bulls other 820 00:44:39,900 --> 00:44:44,400 physios went to that camp with them, but they were local to New 821 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:45,800 York. So I was seeing them a fair 822 00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,300 amount here. So it was my communication with 823 00:44:48,300 --> 00:44:51,600 her about where that current F, that current athletes status 824 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,200 was, what he was able to do for his spoor. 825 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,100 What we were doing in terms of the rehab perspective as well, 826 00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,700 but then, you know, after that, he was home for a week and then 827 00:45:00,700 --> 00:45:03,000 he was down in South America somewhere. 828 00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:06,200 So that's where it becomes a little bit more Remote 829 00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,200 Management. Also, just just check-in Sue 830 00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:13,900 because a lot of times they are very independent and Check-ins 831 00:45:13,900 --> 00:45:16,700 how things are going or if they have any questions on things, 832 00:45:16,700 --> 00:45:19,400 but usually, I'll kind of give them a depending on where they 833 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:23,200 are and their rehab as well if they need more weed daily and 834 00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:24,600 weekly check-ins. Or if there's something where 835 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:26,800 you can kind of, give them a month, block of training and 836 00:45:27,100 --> 00:45:29,500 just make sure they're doing the work type of thing too. 837 00:45:29,500 --> 00:45:32,900 So it's a combination of both in terms of Remote Management and 838 00:45:32,900 --> 00:45:34,400 communication with local physios. 839 00:45:34,500 --> 00:45:36,900 Yeah. So no talking about that and how 840 00:45:36,900 --> 00:45:39,300 do you monitor your Athletes Training status? 841 00:45:39,300 --> 00:45:42,400 I mean I'm sure part of that is more like the performance team 842 00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:46,400 and the coaches But is there, what? 843 00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:50,600 What are you looking for in saying, ooh, we better like take 844 00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:53,000 a look at this guy. He's showing some signs of, 845 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,600 like, additional fatigue. We don't want to let that go 846 00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:59,900 down the wrong road. I think it, like you said, our 847 00:45:59,900 --> 00:46:03,300 performance team definitely is more of the manager of all, of a 848 00:46:03,308 --> 00:46:06,700 lot of that. But it, I think ultimately, you 849 00:46:06,700 --> 00:46:10,000 know, just like a running training plan. 850 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:12,600 If you're working with a coach, you'll you'll have your weekly 851 00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:14,800 plan. You know you know what your 852 00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:19,000 typical intensities are four different types of training and 853 00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,200 with in soccer there's a couple things we usually do weekly 854 00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:29,000 testing for jumping and hamstring strength and they have 855 00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,200 GPS monitors on them as well. So we see every single move 856 00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,100 they're doing on the field and at what speeds and how much 857 00:46:35,100 --> 00:46:37,700 they're changing direction and how much distance they cover and 858 00:46:37,700 --> 00:46:40,600 stuff. So you look at what was our plan 859 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,900 in our Target for that session and then we're Did they fall 860 00:46:43,900 --> 00:46:46,900 within that or they, you know, within a normal one standard 861 00:46:46,900 --> 00:46:51,700 deviation or are there, some big outlier for some reason and then 862 00:46:51,700 --> 00:46:54,500 we have some of the other data that we would test in the gym 863 00:46:54,500 --> 00:46:57,900 from there jumping and strength spores to and again we track 864 00:46:57,900 --> 00:47:01,100 that Weekly. So like we can see what normal. 865 00:47:01,100 --> 00:47:04,400 We know what normal recovery is after a game from like a 866 00:47:04,408 --> 00:47:07,500 hamstring strength perspective, typically that will take 48 867 00:47:07,500 --> 00:47:10,200 hours and if we're still not seeing tissue recovery there 868 00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,400 then we wait another day and if it's still not there that we 869 00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:16,200 know something's probably So, little faster than, you know, 870 00:47:16,300 --> 00:47:21,200 lead to further investigations. So there's basically some data 871 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,700 points we look at and we just have a fair amount of that 872 00:47:23,700 --> 00:47:26,100 information that we can compare back to to see if there's 873 00:47:26,100 --> 00:47:29,200 changes there. But so the on-field stuffs, more 874 00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,400 the performance staff and then some of the more clinical stuff 875 00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,100 is usually what we manage. That's really interesting about 876 00:47:35,100 --> 00:47:38,900 the like hamstring strength, testing, and jump testing, are 877 00:47:38,900 --> 00:47:41,300 there. I mean, there must be a ton of 878 00:47:41,300 --> 00:47:45,600 research studies out there with like - data about what? 879 00:47:46,100 --> 00:47:47,700 What should your hamstring strength? 880 00:47:47,700 --> 00:47:51,700 Be 24 hours after game 48 hours after a game as compared to 881 00:47:51,700 --> 00:47:56,000 Baseline. So are you using numbers from 882 00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,900 research or more like internally developed numbers? 883 00:47:59,900 --> 00:48:02,900 How do you how do you know what the numbers mean? 884 00:48:04,500 --> 00:48:05,700 Yeah, that's a really good question. 885 00:48:05,700 --> 00:48:09,700 So, you know, we always use evidence in peer-reviewed. 886 00:48:09,700 --> 00:48:12,700 Literature is one way to support our decision-making but you 887 00:48:12,700 --> 00:48:14,700 know, it Depending on who the player is. 888 00:48:14,700 --> 00:48:17,000 You know, if we're talking about hams, a hamstring injury, I've 889 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,000 never had a hamstring injury before if they have. 890 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,300 And we noticed well two days after they're still not 891 00:48:22,300 --> 00:48:26,800 recovering but the last four games they did what's going on 892 00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,500 now because they've had for hamstring injuries and we don't 893 00:48:29,500 --> 00:48:31,800 want it to lead to a fifth. So what strategies can we take 894 00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,900 to reduce that risk and allow more recovery if they haven't 895 00:48:34,900 --> 00:48:38,300 had a hamstring injury, they're not mentioning any soreness or 896 00:48:38,300 --> 00:48:41,500 delayed onset muscle soreness or any pain and nothing's changed 897 00:48:41,500 --> 00:48:44,700 with how their move and We'll probably be a little bit more 898 00:48:44,700 --> 00:48:47,500 comfortable. I said, being more participatory 899 00:48:47,500 --> 00:48:51,000 and training after after a day off and after region session, so 900 00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:55,200 it depends on the person and the scenario their past history and 901 00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:57,500 you know, their age to write. You know, the two biggest 902 00:48:57,500 --> 00:49:00,400 predictors of injury, our previous injury and being an 903 00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:04,000 older athlete you know. So so if they're if they're 904 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,100 younger and haven't had an injury that's going to make us 905 00:49:06,100 --> 00:49:08,100 feel a lot more comfortable than if they've had a bunch of 906 00:49:08,100 --> 00:49:10,500 hamstring injuries and they're one of the senior guys at the 907 00:49:10,500 --> 00:49:13,500 team. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. 908 00:49:13,700 --> 00:49:17,600 So you mentioned that the athletes wear those GPS devices, 909 00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,200 which for people who have watched soccer, it's they almost 910 00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:23,000 look like, I think they kind of look like sports bras, but they 911 00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:25,900 look like cut off vest and soccer players. 912 00:49:25,900 --> 00:49:31,800 Run a lot in games, like, what's an average distance for like a 913 00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:36,600 an offensive player game? Usually, you'll see players on 914 00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:40,100 the team running anywhere between 10 and 12 km in a match. 915 00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,800 That is a Of running. So but that being said, it's, 916 00:49:45,100 --> 00:49:48,500 it's very different than, you know, if you were a runner and 917 00:49:48,500 --> 00:49:51,500 running 10 to 12 pay, that may be a little bit more of a steady 918 00:49:51,500 --> 00:49:54,200 state type of effort, or at least if it's a race, you're 919 00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,100 basically kind of pinning it to your threshold for that time 920 00:49:57,100 --> 00:50:02,000 potentially, you know, there's, you know, of that 10 to 12 k. 921 00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:07,300 Only, let's say three to four hundred meters of it is 922 00:50:07,300 --> 00:50:13,800 sprinting and you know you might have five 500 to 1000 meters of 923 00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,400 it is what we call high speed running, which is basically like 924 00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:20,600 a high hard Tempo. The rest of it is jogging and 925 00:50:20,700 --> 00:50:24,300 walking and stuff like that too. So there's more that goes into 926 00:50:24,300 --> 00:50:26,900 that distance number and I know you watch the World Cup or 927 00:50:26,908 --> 00:50:28,800 something, they always highlight those numbers. 928 00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,000 But there's a whole lot more that goes into it than, just 929 00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:33,600 what that number is. And, you know, it It's less 930 00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,800 about the total distance and more about some of those higher 931 00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:40,000 intensity moments or you know, that the accelerations and 932 00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:42,900 decelerations that happen on the field to that are going to be 933 00:50:42,900 --> 00:50:45,700 more of the high-risk moments that we would track of in terms 934 00:50:45,700 --> 00:50:48,600 of the volume of some. But yeah, they give you a plenty 935 00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:50,300 of information about what a player's doing on the field 936 00:50:50,300 --> 00:50:52,500 which is Brooklyn. Yeah, that is awesome. 937 00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:55,700 So like you mentioned and you know, most people realize 938 00:50:55,700 --> 00:50:58,400 Runners and soccer players, both do a lot of running but their 939 00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,700 training and the type of running they do is very different. 940 00:51:01,900 --> 00:51:04,500 But is there anything? I think that our runner 941 00:51:04,500 --> 00:51:08,400 listeners can learn from the way that soccer players train for 942 00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,400 the running. Yeah, you know, I think that, 943 00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:13,900 you know, if we're talking about like a professional soccer club 944 00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:19,400 the variability in training, you know, with soccer, we there's a 945 00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,100 lot of variables you can change from from a training session, 946 00:51:22,100 --> 00:51:24,800 whether it's the size of the field to the bigger the field, 947 00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,400 the more distance it is and the less change the directions. 948 00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,300 We might get more access to high speed or top speed. 949 00:51:30,300 --> 00:51:32,800 Shorter Fields is a lot more acceleration, deceleration 950 00:51:32,900 --> 00:51:35,400 Alliteration but not a lot of total distance would be a whole 951 00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:40,000 lot more high intensity and we know there's normal recovery 952 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,100 times of a lot of those different Energy Systems. 953 00:51:42,100 --> 00:51:45,400 So whereas going back to the comment I mentioned early 954 00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:48,300 records Johnson running 80 percent intensity. 80% of the 955 00:51:48,300 --> 00:51:51,800 time I think a lot more variability in your training is 956 00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:55,900 so valuable you know whether it's a tendon injury or bone 957 00:51:55,900 --> 00:51:59,600 stress injuries those things you know, after a higher harder 958 00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:03,300 training session, take a certain amount of time to Cover. 959 00:52:03,300 --> 00:52:07,100 So if you mix in a little bit of low intensity periodization into 960 00:52:07,100 --> 00:52:10,400 that, it's allows enough recovery to keep you moving 961 00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:12,500 forward. Instead of having a press pause 962 00:52:12,500 --> 00:52:16,100 or taking some steps back. Yeah, and conversely, like, if 963 00:52:16,100 --> 00:52:19,200 you're training for a marathon and doing a lot of like, you 964 00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:23,700 know, tempos /zone 36.0, marathon pace training, still 965 00:52:23,700 --> 00:52:27,100 throw in some strides at like mile or two mile Pace. 966 00:52:27,100 --> 00:52:29,500 A couple days a week just to keep training. 967 00:52:29,700 --> 00:52:32,800 Both those Energy Systems but also introducing different. 968 00:52:32,900 --> 00:52:35,600 Current load to your musculoskeletal system. 969 00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:41,100 Yeah, you know it's one of the one of the runners I work with. 970 00:52:41,100 --> 00:52:45,600 He runs middle distance, he's a one mile Runner and it but he 971 00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:49,700 still runs between 70 and 90 miles a week, you know? 972 00:52:49,708 --> 00:52:53,000 And obviously that's a very different level than many but 973 00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:56,200 you know, it's still a really large aerobic base, and plenty 974 00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:59,300 of higher threshold work, but a lot of lower threshold work too. 975 00:52:59,300 --> 00:53:02,800 So you know, that variability is really important just to create 976 00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,400 For well written. Well rounded, and first, and 977 00:53:05,408 --> 00:53:07,500 foremost healthy Runner, definitely. 978 00:53:08,100 --> 00:53:12,900 So you know, doctors running is primarily a shoe site, so, I 979 00:53:12,900 --> 00:53:15,100 can't let you go without talking about shoes. 980 00:53:15,100 --> 00:53:19,600 So, running shoes with P --ba, which is like the super foam 981 00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:23,300 that send the Nike Vapor fly. And Alpha fly, have really 982 00:53:23,300 --> 00:53:26,500 revolutionized the running world, like world, records are 983 00:53:26,500 --> 00:53:30,000 dropping, right? And left in every distance, and 984 00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:34,700 some soccer cleats have people missiles now Now, Nike has one. 985 00:53:34,700 --> 00:53:38,300 Mizuno has one number has one. So have you? 986 00:53:38,300 --> 00:53:42,000 And like are your athletes wearing those shoes? 987 00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:44,500 I'm sure it depends on sponsorship, but in the soccer 988 00:53:44,500 --> 00:53:47,300 World, do people care about P --ba? 989 00:53:47,300 --> 00:53:52,300 The way the runners care not quite if I don't think it's made 990 00:53:52,300 --> 00:53:55,900 as big of an impact there yet, I mean it's clearly revolutionize 991 00:53:55,900 --> 00:53:58,200 running in the way you just mentioned, you know. 992 00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:02,500 With, with soccer, we look at a couple different things in terms 993 00:54:02,500 --> 00:54:05,200 of You know, the upper and what's made of The Clique 994 00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:07,200 because you also need that tactile stimulus. 995 00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:10,800 A feeling the ball of your foot and then there's different, 996 00:54:11,700 --> 00:54:14,600 there's some shoes that have like the carbon insert that just 997 00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:18,000 make it a little bit stiffer shoe, some players like that. 998 00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,600 Some don't, some have ends up having some foot issues because 999 00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:23,700 it's a little more rigid and they needed to be a little more 1000 00:54:23,700 --> 00:54:27,000 forgiving. We haven't seen as much of that 1001 00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:33,400 midsole peva involved yet, but depending on this, the The at 1002 00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:36,000 the amateur level especially for someone coming back from injury, 1003 00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:40,600 you can play around with the cleats election in terms of, you 1004 00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,600 know, the the rotary traction to it. 1005 00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:47,700 So a longer stud in those blades that are in cleats versus just a 1006 00:54:47,708 --> 00:54:51,000 normal, circular stud are going to have a lot more rotary 1007 00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:52,400 traction to it. Which sometimes, if you're 1008 00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:56,000 coming back from an ACL injury, may be a little bit too 1009 00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:58,800 aggressive to start. So especially if it's, you know, 1010 00:54:58,900 --> 00:55:01,400 a 16 year old girl, coming back from that. 1011 00:55:02,500 --> 00:55:05,300 We probably have them do use a little bit more of a turf shoe 1012 00:55:05,300 --> 00:55:07,400 or just a rounded shorter study because it's going to be a 1013 00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:11,400 little bit more forgiving. But in terms of the technology 1014 00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,000 and choose a lot of people prioritize, it being really, 1015 00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:17,200 really tight, it being a little bit stiff and having really good 1016 00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:19,700 traction. Those are probably some of the 1017 00:55:19,700 --> 00:55:23,600 bigger priorities but within that to and sponsors, probably 1018 00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:25,500 wouldn't appreciate it. But I've definitely seen my fair 1019 00:55:25,500 --> 00:55:28,900 share of players manually things, some of the build up 1020 00:55:28,900 --> 00:55:32,100 their cleats with scalpels and filing studs. 1021 00:55:32,300 --> 00:55:35,700 All that type of stuff too. So it's yeah, it's interesting. 1022 00:55:37,700 --> 00:55:39,700 Matt Klein would love to hear about that. 1023 00:55:39,700 --> 00:55:43,700 He's been known to perform surgery on his running shoes as 1024 00:55:43,700 --> 00:55:45,600 well. Oh, yeah, happy to share those 1025 00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:49,600 stories. Any time I have one final 1026 00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:52,000 question for you. Work with so many professional 1027 00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:55,000 athletes. What can our listeners who are 1028 00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:59,000 mostly everyday amateur athletes learn from them just a couple 1029 00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:02,100 things that everybody regardless of how much time. 1030 00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:06,100 You have or how much your train could do to be a better more 1031 00:56:06,100 --> 00:56:09,900 well-rounded athlete. Yeah, I think one of the first 1032 00:56:09,900 --> 00:56:13,600 things is consistency, you know, and I think that can be both in 1033 00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:18,000 your training and and in your recovery and you can definitely 1034 00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,700 take regardless of volume, even if you're doing some low volume 1035 00:56:20,700 --> 00:56:23,900 training and it's two to three days a week, you can be 1036 00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:26,800 ruthlessly consistent with that and do really, really well with 1037 00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:29,800 your recovery with that too. You know, I think it was Dustin 1038 00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:32,800 Navin with the US Olympic Committee said his Successful 1039 00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:36,800 athletes completed eight over 80% of their training. 1040 00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:39,800 All right, so and yes it's at the Olympic level but you can be 1041 00:56:39,900 --> 00:56:43,200 successful at a local 5K or Marathon. 1042 00:56:43,500 --> 00:56:47,100 If you're consistent with your training and your recovering, I 1043 00:56:47,100 --> 00:56:50,300 think that requires good communication with your coach. 1044 00:56:50,300 --> 00:56:52,700 If you're working with one with your Physio and your support 1045 00:56:52,700 --> 00:56:57,500 team behind you as well, and then really dialing in sleeping, 1046 00:56:57,500 --> 00:57:02,700 well, eating a healthy diet based on You know, any 1047 00:57:02,700 --> 00:57:06,200 restrictions you may or may not have to and the biggest thing is 1048 00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:10,300 just consistency and and really being very, very good at that. 1049 00:57:10,300 --> 00:57:14,200 And if if you are at that, that'll help manage a lot of a 1050 00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,900 lot of the unplanned things that come up because there always are 1051 00:57:16,900 --> 00:57:19,200 in training but it'll help at least. 1052 00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:22,800 Keep you moving forward in the right direction when those 1053 00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:25,300 things occur. Frightened, yeah, it's almost 1054 00:57:25,300 --> 00:57:30,200 better to be a little bit underperforming than pushing the 1055 00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:33,300 limit and having to take a few It's off because you've learned 1056 00:57:33,300 --> 00:57:37,500 something up. Yeah, well Mike, thank you so 1057 00:57:37,500 --> 00:57:40,100 much for joining us today. I think our listeners are going 1058 00:57:40,100 --> 00:57:43,600 to come away from this episode learning a lot and it's just so 1059 00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:46,300 interesting hearing about your work with the Red Bulls and what 1060 00:57:46,300 --> 00:57:51,500 the individual Red Bull athletes and will put in the show notes 1061 00:57:51,500 --> 00:57:54,100 where to find Mike on social media. 1062 00:57:55,300 --> 00:57:59,400 As always, you can find us doctors of running on YouTube 1063 00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:05,000 Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Podcast is on Spotify and apple 1064 00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:08,900 podcast. So send us an email, it's doctor 1065 00:58:08,900 --> 00:58:12,800 is running at gmail.com, we love to hear your questions. 1066 00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:15,700 We try to have Q&A episodes every so often. 1067 00:58:15,700 --> 00:58:19,100 So please, if you've got a question or comment for us find 1068 00:58:19,100 --> 00:58:22,800 Us online and let us know. Thanks so much. 1069 00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:24,900 Mike. Enjoy the rest of your weekend 1070 00:58:24,900 --> 00:58:28,200 and hope to see you soon. It was absolute pleasure. 1071 00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:31,100 Talking to you today really grateful to be on podcast with 1072 00:58:31,100 --> 00:58:33,600 you and looking forward. Keep the continue to be a fan 1073 00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:36,100 and a listener to. Yeah, thanks here again. 1074 00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:34,400 Keep the continue to be a fan and a listener to. 1075 00:58:34,700 --> 00:58:36,100 Yeah, thanks here again.