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Hello, everybody, and welcome to
the Doctors of Running Podcast, 

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where we, a group of Doctors of 
Physical Therapy, discuss the 

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art and science of running and 
the stuff that we put on our 

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feet. 
Today at the round table. 

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We have the founder of Doctors 
of Running, Dr. Matthew Klein, 

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as well as Dr. David Salas, and 
myself. 

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I am Nathan Brown. 
And we have a fun episode today.

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As always, we are powered by our
primary sponsor, Rabbit Apparel.

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weird word. 
It's a sick short sleeve. 

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Um, and it's got a hood that can
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over $50. 
I will say, sorry, I'm just 

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going to add on to their, 
because part of that collection 

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is the low tide as well. 
Oh so good. 

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Yeah, it's great. 
I ran in it today. 9 miles, 3 

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mile tempo run, sweat a bunch. 
For some reason, we have some 

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humidity rolling in in the 
summertime. 

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I don't know why. 
How dare I just give you 

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something like that? 
Yeah, I was sweating buckets 

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this morning, but it was great. 
And it, like even when it like 

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got really wet and kind of 
started sticking to me a little 

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bit. 
It was really light and still 

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breathed, right? 
Where I didn't feel like I was 

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getting really hot and warm. 
So I was really happy with it, 

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actually, with like a proper 
sweat fest in that shirt. 

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Love it. 
Yeah, they've been they've been 

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great. 
They've been super great. 

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So again, if you want to check 
out any of their stuff, you can 

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go to runinrabbit.com and they 
have all of their apparel 

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online, awesome stuff that we 
love to use. 

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Today's episode is going to be 
all about breaking down the kind

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of flagship trainer from all of 
these different brands. 

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We have them in bracket format, 
kind of an homage to the World 

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Cup that's been going on, and 
we're going to work our way from

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a group of 16 down to our top 
kind of flagship trainer. 

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These would be the shoes that we
deem as the one that if you're 

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going to try the model as like a
new introduction, this would be 

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the shoe that kind of, quote, 
defines it, which that in and of

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itself is going to have its own 
conjectured, people are going to

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have their own opinions, and we 
even debated which one to throw 

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in there. 
So we have 16 shoes, and we're 

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excited to go to that. 
But first, we're going to do our

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in-for-testing segment, and 
we're going to be talking about 

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one of the things that we have 
been putting on our feet or any 

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apparel we've been trying out. 
What have you guys been trying? 

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I've got a good number of 
things, so if it's okay, I'll go

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first. 
First, one of the newest things 

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that came in was the Clifton 
Pro, which I have slowly getting

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miles on, I really enjoyed the 
Clifton 11, which I'm also 

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getting miles. have a 100 miles 
in the 11, going with the, yeah,

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with the pro. 
I basically just was because I 

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didn't have any other trainers. 
I was just basically running 

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constantly in the 11. 
So, yeah, that review should be 

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out by the time that hopefully 
this podcast is out. 

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The pro has been interesting. 
I'm still kind of going, why 

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did, but I can understand. 
I think the Clifton very much is

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the easy day walking shoe, kind 
of like it's it's not really 

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good for picking up the pace. 
It's light. 

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It's great, but it's not for 
picking up pace. 

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You can do that a little bit 
more in the Clifton Pro. 

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Did they need to have a totally 
separate shoe? 

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I don't know. still getting 
miles on it. 

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It's definitely got a more 
resilient feel underfoot and 

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Nathan, you talked about this in
your YouTube short. 

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So yeah, just getting miles and 
still trying to figure out. 

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But I am excited to have better 
durability because the outsole 

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on the Clifton 11, I am just 
ripping through that thing. 

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So, yeah, that's my 1st one. 
Second one is, and I can say 

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this by now because issue will 
be out by that time. 

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The Topo Spectre Elite, which is
probably one of my favorite 

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racing shoes for distant stuff 
this year. 

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It is awesome. 
It's one of the few anatomic toe

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box shoes. 
Ultra. don't know what's going 

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on with the Ultra Fly Carbon, 
but I just the durability was 

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all. 
I love that shoe, but the 

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dribble is awful. 
This shoe have got 30 miles on. 

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It has been fantastic. 
I was kind of not getting along 

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with the Spectre. 
The three. 

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This fixes a lot of that stuff, 
plus the carbon fiber plate, 

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plus bouncier, did a long 
up-tempo run this morning in the

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shoe. 
It was phenomenal. 

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If I had to go run a half 
marathon or marathon, This would

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be my shoe right now. 
It is actually stable neutral. 

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I going to give it that credit 
because of the sidewalls. 

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I would, I wish the midfoot was 
full length instead of kind of 

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split in this way, but beggars 
can't be choosers. 

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So yeah, it's been really nice 
with the anatomic toe box and 

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the ATPU foam. 
It's great. 

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You want an atomic shoe? 
It's not going to be natural. 

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So barefoot mafia, you're going 
to get upset with how rocker 

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this shoe is, but if that's 
something you don't mind, you 

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want that in a super shoe with 
this much toe box room. 

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It's great. 
It's an awesome shoe. 

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David, yes. 
Would you take that over any 

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releases from the previous year?
Because you said if you were to 

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run a half marathon or marathon 
tomorrow, that would be your 

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shoe. 
Yeah, I actually think for me, 

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it is beating things like the on
Cloudboom, or sorry, not 

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Cloudboom, Cloud Monster Hyper 3
LS right now. 

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It is that bouncy, the plate is 
more prominent. 

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So yeah, and it just the fit, it
just got more room and it was so

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awesome on that run. 
So I would say, yes, actually 

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right now. 
Okay, and compared to super 

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shoes, you feel? 
I haven't had any... 

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It is it is up there. 
It's not the lightest thing on 

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the market, but it's definitely 
up there with other long 

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distance racers and I'd pick it 
over a lot of them, to be very 

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honest. fit is just. 
For you, it's the fit and the 

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stability of those like the for 
you, those are the high values. 

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Yeah, it's actually it's the 
fit, the stability, which isn't 

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perfect, but it's just enough 
that I can do it. 

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Like I did 12 today pushing the 
stroller at an uptempo pace. 

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Arch is fine. 
It's great. 

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Didn't bug me at all, which was 
really a big deal. 

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Um, but the ATPU foam, the rev 
foam. 

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They did a great job. 
The geometry, the rev foam, and 

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the plate. 
I would take it over a lot of 

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other things right now, 4 
distances above a half marathon,

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below? 
No, it unfortunately can't turn 

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over really quick. 
Um, as quick as I might want to 

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have done some workouts, but 
they did a really good job. 

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The rocker is a little much, but
they did a good job. 

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And then my final, yeah, go, 
sorry. 

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What is it about the Spectre 3 
that you're not getting along 

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with? 
You kind of reference that it's 

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not working for you? 
I think it's what is it? 

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Is the stability of that one? 
I think it's a little squirrely.

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Midfoot's a little bit narrower.
Um, I think it's the way without

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the plate giving structure that 
it just kind of either collapses

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or, yeah, it's that forefoot 
that kind of is so, I can, I 

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notice the curve of the forefoot
a lot more in the Spectre 3 than

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the Spectre elite. 
I think the plate gets a little 

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more structure, so it doesn't 
collapse as much in the elite 

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compared to the Spectre. 
Spectra is a great shoe. 

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And I think some people are 
going to get along very well 

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with that because it's another 
ATPU-foamed training shoe, which

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is they've done a great, the 
heel's so much better than last 

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version. 
It's just the rocker's a little 

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bit much with it being not 
having a little extra structure 

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for me. 
Cool. 

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Yeah. 
Then the final one is On 

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Cloudboom Strike 2, which I just
did a workout in the other day. 

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It's been great. 
Different than the previous 

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version. 
I think durability is going to 

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be a lot better with the 
full-length outsole, great job 

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on another wide toe box shoe, 
not quite as stable for me, just

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because it narrows, but it's 
moves. 

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It was really fun during a track
workout the other day. 

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So need to get more miles. 
I don't have enough yet to 

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really comment, but it's nice. 
One, colors make it look like 

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the Cloudboom Strike 2. 
Correct me if I'm wrong. 

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They dropped the price from 21 
to version two. 

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So it's like $38. 
It's 250 now instead of 280 for 

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the previous version, which I 
think that's a big deal. 

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And I think... 
And the quality didn't drop. 

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I would say the quality is the 
same, if not a little bit 

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better. 
Like my version's later, it 

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feels smoother, the forefoot 
pops a little bit more, the fits

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a little bit more dialed in. 
So you're getting better for 

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less. 
And I don't think there's 

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another company out there that's
done that. 

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So good job on that's great. 
I think it's going to pay off. 

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Got that 250 is cheap. 
I mean, it is it is in line with

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other shoes in that category. 
I would say it's not in line. 

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I would say most things that are
on in line with the Cloudboom 

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Strike 2 are in the 280 range. 
I think, I think easily like 

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Alphafly, your, I don't remember
how much the Cielo X1 version 3 

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is, but like there's not a lot 
of like that, that top tier 

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stuff is in that 280, like Puma 
Fast R 3, 300 bucks, right? 

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I think that shoe... 
I easily puts puts in that like 

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upper echelon realm, but it 
dropped the 250. 

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Yes, absolutely. 
Yeah. 

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Yep. 
I, yeah. 

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It's it competes with that 
group. 

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Well, don't don't say that out 
loud so they don't raise the 

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price next time. 
Okay, fine. 

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It's awful. the price where it 
is. 

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But yeah, yeah, some a lot of 
trade racers, some trainers 

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right now, little extra add-on 
that the rest of the group is 

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not going to know about. 
I also have the Under Armour 

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Velociti Pro, which I'm excited 
to get some miles on. 

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The Velociti Elite 3 was... 
Yeah, it was a decent shoe. 

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Part of the reason I got this is
I've had some fun with Under 

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Armor, which sadly is coming to 
an end because they're closing 

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their Portland office. and yeah,
so sorry guys. 

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Yep. 
Yeah. 

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So I'll go next. 
I've got a couple, most of what 

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I've been running in. 
It's not like I've been running 

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a lot of different shoes, but 
I've gotten a lot of miles in 

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the Clifton Pro because it's 
been one of my favorite shoes to

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run in right now. 
I just did 11 in it yesterday. 

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Um, and did a little bit of a 
workout in it too. 

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So it's been, um, and by workout
right now, that means slightly 

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up-tempo with some, you know, 
strides and things like that, so

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nothing crazy, but it's just 
been a great trainer. 

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I've said it a 1000000 times 
about the pro label. 

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It feels really misleading. 
It's just a trainer, but I love 

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the durability of the outsole. 
I'm not seeing anything in this 

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thing from a breakdown 
standpoint. 

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Foam still feels resilient. 
Feels really good. 

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I haven't seen any changes in 
performance, and I've got a good

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amount of miles on it right now.
Which I will say is not common 

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because Hoke's durability is not
something that they're known 

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for. 
And yet it's handled. it's doing

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pretty good. 
And then the other shoe that 

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I've brought back out just to 
get some easy miles in was the 

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Paramount Max from Saucony, and 
I liked it just as much as I did

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before. 
I feel like I just don't feel 

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the weight that is measured on 
the scale with that shoe and 

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it's just so poppy and 
lackadaisically fun. 

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Like, I'm not going to go run 
fast paces on purpose in that 

220
00:11:07,541 --> 00:11:11,415
shoe, but I will enjoy easy 
miles in that shoe, and it, I'm,

221
00:11:11,415 --> 00:11:13,799
once you get moving, it doesn't 
feel wobbly. 

222
00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,699
Standing, it's squirrely, but 
once you're moving, it feels 

223
00:11:16,699 --> 00:11:19,919
really steady and nice and that 
wide base is great. 

224
00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:21,659
So I had fun running in that 
shoe. 

225
00:11:21,660 --> 00:11:28,055
Then the last one that I've got 
is a slide from OOFOS, this is 

226
00:11:28,055 --> 00:11:29,879
the... 
Oh, yeah, plus. 

227
00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:34,060
So this is their, like, quote 
unquote, recovery slide that has

228
00:11:34,060 --> 00:11:37,370
more of a midsole. 
We've talked about this before, 

229
00:11:37,370 --> 00:11:40,946
but like, I pretty strongly 
believe that there aren't any 

230
00:11:40,946 --> 00:11:44,159
shoes that help you recover 
better than other shoes. 

231
00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,760
It's just a shoe, but designs of
shoes can end up being 

232
00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:49,559
beneficial depending on where 
you're at. 

233
00:11:49,560 --> 00:11:54,154
So this one, um, because of how 
much is underneath it, it really

234
00:11:54,154 --> 00:11:57,915
operates as a rocker slide. 
And so if you need to offload 

235
00:11:57,915 --> 00:12:00,755
your big toe joint, this 
actually could work really well.

236
00:12:00,755 --> 00:12:04,447
And with the way that the foot 
bed is laid, it almost feels 

237
00:12:04,447 --> 00:12:06,719
like there's a what's called a 
metatarsal pad. 

238
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,179
And so that kind of distributes 
force. 

239
00:12:09,180 --> 00:12:11,925
So if you have like 
metatarstalgia or something like

240
00:12:11,925 --> 00:12:15,575
that, and I actually got, we 
bought a pair for Jana because 

241
00:12:15,575 --> 00:12:18,615
of some stuff that she's been 
walking through, no, pun 

242
00:12:18,615 --> 00:12:21,959
intended, um, it can, it can 
potentially do that for you. 

243
00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,236
Obviously, go try it on and make
sure it would alter symptoms, 

244
00:12:25,236 --> 00:12:27,419
but, um, it's it's not bad for 
that. 

245
00:12:27,420 --> 00:12:31,373
The 1st time I put it on, it was
tight and a little uncomfortable

246
00:12:31,373 --> 00:12:35,321
over the top, but it loosened 
over the 1st day or 2 and it's 

247
00:12:35,321 --> 00:12:37,859
been good, but feels very rocker
underneath the foot. 

248
00:12:37,860 --> 00:12:40,814
It's ironic that the fit fit is 
what I was blown away by most 

249
00:12:40,814 --> 00:12:43,557
because most time when I put on 
slides, I'm like, I'm not used 

250
00:12:43,557 --> 00:12:45,885
to wearing them, right? 
you know, not a Santa Barbara 

251
00:12:45,885 --> 00:12:47,159
native, right? 
That's not normal for me. 

252
00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:51,865
So, All right, difficult. 
Um, slides normally don't fit me

253
00:12:51,865 --> 00:12:53,355
well. 
Like they're sliding off, but 

254
00:12:53,355 --> 00:12:55,199
the fit of those actually grip 
pretty well. 

255
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,779
Socks without socks is super 
comfortable. 

256
00:12:57,780 --> 00:13:01,380
So I was really impressed with 
the fit, but also totally agree 

257
00:13:01,380 --> 00:13:03,479
with you with how the offloading
goes. 

258
00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,512
And I also don't like a lot of 
arch support in a lot of 

259
00:13:07,512 --> 00:13:09,419
sandals. 
It usually doesn't hit me right.

260
00:13:09,420 --> 00:13:11,639
It's uncomfortable. 
This is great. 

261
00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,760
I think they did the research, 
but I'm also going to be with 

262
00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,159
Nathan going, I don't think 
shoes can help you recover. 

263
00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,250
And the peer reviewed evidence 
out there would also suggest 

264
00:13:20,250 --> 00:13:22,715
that recovery shoes don't 
really, like actual recovery 

265
00:13:22,715 --> 00:13:25,943
shoes don't exist. 
The things that are going to 

266
00:13:25,943 --> 00:13:29,390
have, biggest impact is going to
be optimizing training, 

267
00:13:29,390 --> 00:13:31,995
recovery, sleep, nutrition. 
I mean, recovery, this part, 

268
00:13:31,995 --> 00:13:34,319
sleep, nutrition, things that 
actually help tissue healing. 

269
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:35,939
This may help with some 
offloading. 

270
00:13:35,940 --> 00:13:39,341
So I would think of this more of
like, you're trying to like 

271
00:13:39,341 --> 00:13:41,690
redistribute forces kind of 
concept, which is what most 

272
00:13:41,690 --> 00:13:44,039
shoes are capable of as opposed 
to facilitating recovery. 

273
00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,340
Yeah. 
I never felt... 

274
00:13:47,340 --> 00:13:51,540
Yeah, probably were. 
Do everybody does everybody wear

275
00:13:51,540 --> 00:13:53,879
like flip-flops in Santa 
Barbara? 

276
00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:55,679
Is that a thing or do they make 
that up? 

277
00:13:55,680 --> 00:13:58,319
I think you might have just made
that up. 

278
00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:00,599
Well, California, Southern 
California. 

279
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:02,459
How about that, right? 
Is that better? 

280
00:14:02,460 --> 00:14:04,919
Yeah, SoCal, they wear slime. 
That fair. 

281
00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:08,580
Okay. 
So irritated the whole Santa 

282
00:14:08,580 --> 00:14:13,791
Barbara city of Santa Barbara. 
I mean, there's some sandals out

283
00:14:13,791 --> 00:14:17,382
there. yeah sure. 
Um, so this probably will come 

284
00:14:17,382 --> 00:14:21,052
up later in the podcast because 
we're talking about flagships, 

285
00:14:21,052 --> 00:14:24,713
but just finished the written 
review on the Mizuno Waverider 

286
00:14:24,713 --> 00:14:28,440
30. 
I have been very happy with the 

287
00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:30,599
updates. 
It's definitely updates. 

288
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,435
You know, sometimes it's like, 
oh, it's just a little bit of an

289
00:14:34,435 --> 00:14:37,090
upper update or maybe the 
geometry changes ever so 

290
00:14:37,090 --> 00:14:39,745
slightly, but this one 
definitely feels like a pretty 

291
00:14:39,745 --> 00:14:43,740
major update to the shoe. 
And I, it's a tricky one where I

292
00:14:43,740 --> 00:14:47,835
think for the masses, I think it
probably will work better for a 

293
00:14:47,835 --> 00:14:51,230
lot of people. 
But for the crowd that liked the

294
00:14:51,230 --> 00:14:55,778
firmer high drop feel, it does 
start to move away from that a 

295
00:14:55,778 --> 00:14:58,919
little bit, and those who really
liked that sensation. 

296
00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:03,024
They might not like the change. 
But I think as far as like a 

297
00:15:03,024 --> 00:15:06,351
larger population of people go, 
it probably will speak to a 

298
00:15:06,351 --> 00:15:09,540
larger population of people. 
With that said, it's a 

299
00:15:09,540 --> 00:15:11,519
supercritical EVA midsole, super
soft. 

300
00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,279
Like, and again, I just said 
super soft. 

301
00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:18,439
In regards to the Mizuno 
Waverider, that is not something

302
00:15:18,439 --> 00:15:22,700
we've ever really said. 
It's traditionally a pretty firm

303
00:15:22,700 --> 00:15:26,520
shoe. 
So, really soft midsole. bouncy 

304
00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,673
underfoot. 
The rounding is a little bit 

305
00:15:28,673 --> 00:15:30,479
more than we've seen in previous
models. 

306
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,620
I wouldn't go as far to say that
it's like as rockered as like a 

307
00:15:34,620 --> 00:15:37,379
lot of the rocker shoes that 
you're used to experiencing. 

308
00:15:37,380 --> 00:15:40,933
Like the Waverider has never 
really been a super rocker shoe,

309
00:15:40,933 --> 00:15:44,159
but it's the most rocker of the 
Waveriders so far. 

310
00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:49,320
And the wave plate that's in 
this shoe, it's full length now,

311
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,899
and it's still pretty flexible, 
though. 

312
00:15:51,900 --> 00:15:55,359
Like it's a plastic plate that's
in there, but it has just enough

313
00:15:55,359 --> 00:15:57,753
stiffness to still feel like 
you're rolling through the 

314
00:15:57,753 --> 00:15:59,917
front. 
The one thing I will say because

315
00:15:59,917 --> 00:16:02,085
the foam's a lot more compliant,
it does... 

316
00:16:02,085 --> 00:16:05,337
They brought it down to an 8 
millimeter drop, but even though

317
00:16:05,337 --> 00:16:08,039
it's an 8 millimeter drop, 
because you engage with that 

318
00:16:08,039 --> 00:16:11,819
foam and you compress it a lot 
more than you may have in the 

319
00:16:11,819 --> 00:16:14,880
previous versions. 
I can still feel that plate 

320
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,460
spooned out. 
And so that sensation of the 

321
00:16:17,460 --> 00:16:20,360
Waverider, where you're dropping
into the forefoot from a higher 

322
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,919
drop position. 
That still stands. 

323
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:26,691
I still feel that. 
It just feels like a different 

324
00:16:26,691 --> 00:16:28,116
way. 
It just feels like a different 

325
00:16:28,116 --> 00:16:30,455
way of getting there. 
But that general sensation is 

326
00:16:30,455 --> 00:16:33,063
still there. 
Uh, and I'm saying all of this 

327
00:16:33,063 --> 00:16:36,625
to just say that I really like 
it and the, the review's out 

328
00:16:36,625 --> 00:16:38,178
now. 
Probably what should be out by 

329
00:16:38,178 --> 00:16:41,292
the time this comes out. 
But, uh, yeah, it's it's a 

330
00:16:41,292 --> 00:16:44,703
really pleasant surprise. 
And it's also like, so you have 

331
00:16:44,703 --> 00:16:47,772
a supercritical EVA, soft, 
bouncy responsive, and it's at 

332
00:16:47,772 --> 00:16:52,079
like 9.4 ounces in men's size 9.
At 42.5 momenters of stack. 

333
00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,556
I think this immediately puts it
into a pretty solid conversation

334
00:16:55,556 --> 00:16:59,339
as far as daily trainers go as 
being competitive in the market 

335
00:16:59,339 --> 00:17:01,859
because I actually took it to 
the track. 

336
00:17:01,860 --> 00:17:06,731
I wasn't going to say this, but 
I mean, I ran 8 by 100 on and 

337
00:17:06,731 --> 00:17:10,378
off and I was going pretty quick
and I got it down. 

338
00:17:10,380 --> 00:17:15,468
I mean, I ran... 
I got to do. trying to remember 

339
00:17:15,468 --> 00:17:20,148
this, but I had 2 or 3 of them 
at 15 seconds and 3 that were at

340
00:17:20,148 --> 00:17:22,380
14 low. 
So I turned over pretty good in 

341
00:17:22,380 --> 00:17:25,259
the shoe and it didn't feel like
it got in my way. 

342
00:17:25,260 --> 00:17:28,089
Like, are there faster shoes out
there, sure, but like it can 

343
00:17:28,089 --> 00:17:31,379
turn over and I can go fast and 
you can do workouts in them. 

344
00:17:31,380 --> 00:17:34,619
So, yeah, very pleasant 
surprise. 

345
00:17:34,620 --> 00:17:36,239
So sorry guys, I kind of rambled
there. 

346
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:40,275
I would 100% agree with you that
I found it to be, and whenever I

347
00:17:40,275 --> 00:17:43,503
think about this shoe, I think 
about when we 1st started doing 

348
00:17:43,503 --> 00:17:45,803
this, right? 
I have memories of running in 

349
00:17:45,803 --> 00:17:49,319
one of the older wave riders and
doing a workout in it. 

350
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,633
It was so snappy, responsive. 
I feel like that kind of got 

351
00:17:52,633 --> 00:17:55,741
lost in recent versions, and 
this one brings it back to that 

352
00:17:55,741 --> 00:17:58,072
where it's almost like a 
lightweight trainer, where it 

353
00:17:58,072 --> 00:18:01,685
has, like, one of my major runs 
in version 30 ended up being an 

354
00:18:01,685 --> 00:18:04,523
up-tempo run, because I think, I
don't remember Isabel was at 

355
00:18:04,523 --> 00:18:07,877
daycare and I had the morning 
off and Richie and I, I ran 

356
00:18:07,877 --> 00:18:10,199
without the stroller, and it 
just turned into easy. 

357
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,176
It was just I was turning over. 
It felt great, and I was like, 

358
00:18:13,176 --> 00:18:15,912
wow, I'm hitting like mid low 
6s, not even working that hard, 

359
00:18:15,912 --> 00:18:18,420
like, wow, this is what it's 
like to run without the 

360
00:18:18,420 --> 00:18:21,372
stroller, but it was in that 
shoe, and it just turned over so

361
00:18:21,372 --> 00:18:23,394
nice. 
It really reminded me of a 

362
00:18:23,394 --> 00:18:26,375
softer thing that we had 
experienced in the past, but 

363
00:18:26,375 --> 00:18:29,653
it's a different shoe. 
But I think what you said makes 

364
00:18:29,653 --> 00:18:32,999
it — the essence is still there.
It's still a wave writer. 

365
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:37,830
It's just a, it's got a new look
and a new feel, but it's still, 

366
00:18:37,830 --> 00:18:40,079
some of the feelings are still 
there. 

367
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:46,155
It's essence is still there. 
Speaking of essence, that made 

368
00:18:46,155 --> 00:18:49,488
me think of the word ethos, 
which is me thinking about, 

369
00:18:49,488 --> 00:18:52,518
well, okay, so I don't know, 
people who are listening 

370
00:18:52,518 --> 00:18:55,548
probably remember me saying 
about when we were talking about

371
00:18:55,548 --> 00:18:58,319
the new Topo Spectre. 
You're like, oh, Topo Spectre. 

372
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:00,923
It's this new age thing. 
Like it's got this new foam, but

373
00:19:00,923 --> 00:19:03,219
they're not, in my mind, my 
opinion, they're not going to 

374
00:19:03,219 --> 00:19:05,399
put a plate in there. 
They'd be against their ethos. 

375
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,715
And then like a couple days 
later, we had the elite ship to 

376
00:19:08,715 --> 00:19:10,679
like to Andrea. 
I'm like well, eat my words. 

377
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,632
I was wrong. 
I put that in then so my review 

378
00:19:13,632 --> 00:19:17,748
of the Spectre Elite is done and
I put that in our intro going, 

379
00:19:17,748 --> 00:19:21,720
we on the podcast said, there's 
no, I doubt Topo was ever going 

380
00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:25,560
to do a carbon-plated super shoe
and then it's literally like a 

381
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,716
couple days later. 
I would have loved to bend in 

382
00:19:28,716 --> 00:19:32,159
the room when they made that 
decision to add a plate. 

383
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,559
Because I don't think that that 
decision was made lightly. 

384
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,319
I think that they were... 
I still think they, they, this 

385
00:19:37,319 --> 00:19:40,319
has probably been in the works 
for a while, not to interrupt 

386
00:19:40,319 --> 00:19:43,069
you, and they executed it 
really, really well for our 1st 

387
00:19:43,069 --> 00:19:44,879
one. 
They didn't mess around. 

388
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:49,305
That's cool, yeah. 
Yeah. then I think I just got 

389
00:19:49,305 --> 00:19:51,650
one more. 
I feel like I have the shortest 

390
00:19:51,650 --> 00:19:55,109
in for testing this time. 
So just because I took it out 

391
00:19:55,109 --> 00:19:58,840
earlier today, uh, on that tempo
run that I was alluding to with 

392
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,284
the low tide, but the Saucony 
Endorphin Elite 3, I got, that 

393
00:20:02,284 --> 00:20:05,441
was my 1st time actually writing
in the shoe, because I've 

394
00:20:05,441 --> 00:20:08,881
actually kind of have had the 
foot stuff and I really haven't 

395
00:20:08,881 --> 00:20:12,599
felt good enough to go fast and 
or put super shoes on, really. 

396
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,992
Like even when I was on the 
track, I was wearing the 

397
00:20:16,992 --> 00:20:19,188
Waverider, like we were talking 
about. 

398
00:20:19,188 --> 00:20:23,934
Um, I actually really, really 
liked it as long as I was not 

399
00:20:23,934 --> 00:20:27,870
turning. 
The turning was, it wasn't 

400
00:20:27,870 --> 00:20:33,463
awful, but it was hard. 
It was hard enough to where I 

401
00:20:33,463 --> 00:20:36,059
felt like I had to tiptoe a 
little bit. 

402
00:20:36,060 --> 00:20:39,084
There's been some other shoes in
the past where I felt worse 

403
00:20:39,084 --> 00:20:42,348
turning, but I feel like they 
did a great job with the tall 

404
00:20:42,348 --> 00:20:43,932
sidewalls. 
I feel like the geometry is 

405
00:20:43,932 --> 00:20:45,839
dialed in really well. 
The stiffness is good. 

406
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:47,999
I feel like it's stiffer than 
Endorphin Elite 2. 

407
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,413
And I feel like I really kind of
pivot off the forefoot well and 

408
00:20:51,413 --> 00:20:54,815
I feel like as long as I like 
lean forward and just engage my 

409
00:20:54,815 --> 00:20:56,759
leg into the ground, like it 
does respond. 

410
00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:01,019
And so for longer distance 
efforts, I think it's great. 

411
00:21:01,020 --> 00:21:03,965
I think it definitely bottoms 
out, it's really soft that 

412
00:21:03,965 --> 00:21:06,500
PWRRUN. 
So it bottoms out a little bit 

413
00:21:06,500 --> 00:21:10,340
for like top speed stuff, but if
for like a marathon, half 

414
00:21:10,340 --> 00:21:13,139
marathon, maybe even 10 K. like 
it's it's pretty good. 

415
00:21:13,140 --> 00:21:16,248
Um, I don't know that it'll win 
an award later in the year, you 

416
00:21:16,248 --> 00:21:19,572
know, but I think they did do a 
good job for what it's worth as 

417
00:21:19,572 --> 00:21:23,397
long as it's in a straight line.
I do I do think they win this by

418
00:21:23,397 --> 00:21:26,544
far the softest and bouncy as 
Super Shoe out there. like by 

419
00:21:26,544 --> 00:21:32,530
leaps and bounds. 
Just controlling it is another 

420
00:21:32,530 --> 00:21:34,880
story. 
As always, our in-for-testing 

421
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:36,890
segment is fueled by Scratch 
Labs. 

422
00:21:36,890 --> 00:21:41,905
If you want to get 20% off your 
1st order, you can use the code 

423
00:21:41,905 --> 00:21:44,144
DOCTORSOFRUNNING. 
I wanted to give a little shout 

424
00:21:44,144 --> 00:21:46,859
out to scratch because I've been
using different family members. 

425
00:21:46,860 --> 00:21:51,018
We were on like a little 
vacation in Wisconsin still, but

426
00:21:51,018 --> 00:21:55,542
a little vacation and I had been
trying other types of protein 

427
00:21:55,542 --> 00:21:57,624
powders. 
Um, and I even bought, bought 

428
00:21:57,624 --> 00:22:00,179
one on my own just to try from 
Puori. 

429
00:22:00,180 --> 00:22:03,299
And Scratch actually tastes 
good. 

430
00:22:03,300 --> 00:22:06,119
The recovery stuff actually has 
good flavor to it. 

431
00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:09,115
Everything else tastes like 
protein powder, Scratch, I just 

432
00:22:09,115 --> 00:22:12,430
really enjoy. 
So almost like a dangerous 

433
00:22:12,430 --> 00:22:14,625
amount. 
Like I would just keep keep 

434
00:22:14,625 --> 00:22:17,268
drinking it. 
Okay, but let's get into our 

435
00:22:17,268 --> 00:22:21,040
main segment for today. 
Again, what we are doing is we 

436
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,100
are looking at 16 different 
brands and bringing forward 

437
00:22:24,100 --> 00:22:26,820
their flagship daily neutral 
trainer, neutral daily trainer, 

438
00:22:26,820 --> 00:22:29,879
whatever order you want to put 
those adjectives in. 

439
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,312
And as I said, there's probably 
some conjecture, like we had to 

440
00:22:33,312 --> 00:22:36,458
debate, are we putting in 
Novablast, are we putting in the

441
00:22:36,458 --> 00:22:38,459
Nimbus, are we putting in the 
cumulus? 

442
00:22:38,460 --> 00:22:41,790
Like, what is their trainer? 
And there might be some brands 

443
00:22:41,790 --> 00:22:43,679
that you disagree with our 
choice? 

444
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,580
We'd love to hear which one you 
would have put in and why we are

445
00:22:46,580 --> 00:22:47,699
open to that. 
That could be fun. 

446
00:22:47,700 --> 00:22:50,372
And then obviously people are 
going to disagree with our 

447
00:22:50,372 --> 00:22:52,600
choices. 
But the rules of the road is 

448
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,679
that we're going to put 2 shoes 
up against each other. 

449
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,860
We put them in bracket format. 
The winner is the one that gets 

450
00:22:58,860 --> 00:23:01,259
at least 2 out of 3 votes from 
our team. 

451
00:23:01,260 --> 00:23:04,589
So if I and David pick one and 
Matt picks the other, the one 

452
00:23:04,589 --> 00:23:06,959
that David and I pick is going 
to move forward. 

453
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,880
The other thing that we're going
to do is choose our order of who

454
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,450
has to select first. 
So we're going to have the order

455
00:23:14,450 --> 00:23:18,289
always be David, Matt and 
myself, and then back to David, 

456
00:23:18,289 --> 00:23:21,779
but whoever goes 1st is going to
change each time. 

457
00:23:21,780 --> 00:23:24,986
So the 1st time David will be 
the 1st one to pick for the 2nd 

458
00:23:24,986 --> 00:23:26,840
matchup. 
Matt will be the 1st one to pick

459
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,550
for the 3rd matchup. 
I'll be the 1st one to pick. 

460
00:23:29,550 --> 00:23:32,519
And the chances of me keeping 
that straight are about 50-50. 

461
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,936
So we'll see how it goes, but I 
think that'll make it that one 

462
00:23:35,936 --> 00:23:39,107
of us doesn't always have to be 
the tiebreaker and it can kind 

463
00:23:39,107 --> 00:23:41,999
of be split up. 
Are we ready to rock? 

464
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,399
No. 
Why? 

465
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,659
It's gonna be hard. 
I know what the 16th seat is. 

466
00:23:48,660 --> 00:23:50,579
It feels very intentional to 
put... 

467
00:23:50,580 --> 00:23:53,240
We spent time. 
We also spent, I think that's 

468
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,010
another important point. 
We spent time seeding these 

469
00:23:56,010 --> 00:23:59,880
based on kind of legacy. 
So not necessarily our opinions 

470
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:04,050
on the shoe, but more like 
legacy, how long the shoe's been

471
00:24:04,050 --> 00:24:06,479
around, maybe popularity, 
general, things like that. 

472
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,239
And it was definitely based on 
our feel of that. 

473
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,879
We didn't do market research to 
look at the sales. 

474
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,607
We'd love to hear if people 
would have seeded these 

475
00:24:14,607 --> 00:24:16,782
differently. 
That would be a fun conversation

476
00:24:16,782 --> 00:24:18,419
too. 
So have at it. 

477
00:24:18,420 --> 00:24:22,008
We'd love to hear your thoughts,
but this is based on our vibes 

478
00:24:22,008 --> 00:24:25,320
and our feel off of how popular 
these issues are, the legacy 

479
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,267
behind some of these models. 
I can't waste to see the comment

480
00:24:28,267 --> 00:24:30,299
section on this video. 
Oh, it's gonna be great. 

481
00:24:30,300 --> 00:24:32,850
So here we go. 
It's going to be probably the 

482
00:24:32,850 --> 00:24:34,199
most heated comment suction 
we've had. 

483
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:38,768
You will understand the shoes 
that are in the bracket as we go

484
00:24:38,768 --> 00:24:42,599
through. 
So our 1st matchup is the one 

485
00:24:42,599 --> 00:24:48,063
seed against the 16 seed, the 
one seed being the Novablast, 

486
00:24:48,063 --> 00:24:53,023
Novablast series, and then the 
16 seed being the Diadora, 

487
00:24:53,023 --> 00:24:54,894
right? 
Diadora, dang it. 

488
00:24:54,894 --> 00:24:57,779
Cholula's hot sauce, my God. 
Yeah, it is. 

489
00:24:57,780 --> 00:25:02,699
I was like, that's a hot sauce. 
What's better to run it? 

490
00:25:02,700 --> 00:25:08,080
Hot sauce or the Novablast. 
The poor Diadora people were 

491
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,739
like, it's not even Italian hot 
sauce. 

492
00:25:10,740 --> 00:25:14,819
Come on, Nathan. are you doing? 
Tell you lot. 

493
00:25:14,820 --> 00:25:16,410
No. 
Tell you. 

494
00:25:16,410 --> 00:25:18,189
Tell you. 
It's Diadora. 

495
00:25:18,189 --> 00:25:20,340
You can say it wrong. 
Love. 

496
00:25:20,340 --> 00:25:23,519
I'm turning into Matt here. 
This is not good. 

497
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,634
This is definitely not good. 
David, why don't you kick us 

498
00:25:27,634 --> 00:25:29,759
off? 
What is your pick and why? 

499
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,574
Yeah, so the reason why I'm so 
conflicted is I actually really 

500
00:25:33,574 --> 00:25:36,119
like this Diadora shoe, too. 
A lot. 

501
00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:40,164
It's like one of those mild 
stability kind of training shoes

502
00:25:40,164 --> 00:25:41,999
where it's definitely stable 
neutral. 

503
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,180
The rocker's done well. 
The foam isn't the most 

504
00:25:45,180 --> 00:25:47,350
exciting. 
It's definitely a firmer, just 

505
00:25:47,350 --> 00:25:52,592
kind of, it just is what it is, 
you know, it's a firmer EVA type

506
00:25:52,592 --> 00:25:56,546
of feeling shoe. 
But I feel like the ride in the 

507
00:25:56,546 --> 00:26:00,539
geometry and the upper, like it,
it's all done really well. 

508
00:26:00,540 --> 00:26:03,123
But... 
I feel like the Diadora could 

509
00:26:03,123 --> 00:26:06,803
have upset someone, but it's 
gone against the Novablast, and 

510
00:26:06,803 --> 00:26:11,219
I feel like I've done well with 
the Novablast over the years. 

511
00:26:11,220 --> 00:26:15,952
The 5 has been a go to for me 
for pretty much everything 

512
00:26:15,952 --> 00:26:19,592
travel related. 
Like, if I picked one shoe to 

513
00:26:19,592 --> 00:26:24,168
walk around, run in, and dress 
up, like my white Novablasts, 

514
00:26:24,168 --> 00:26:28,328
I'd go to those pretty 
frequently on the Novablast 5, 

515
00:26:28,328 --> 00:26:34,152
the Novablast 6, I feel like, I 
didn't love it as much as I 

516
00:26:34,152 --> 00:26:38,932
liked the 5, It wasn't bad. 
I just think I liked the 5 

517
00:26:38,932 --> 00:26:43,057
better. 
I am so torn on this choice, 

518
00:26:43,057 --> 00:26:44,939
man. 
It's... 

519
00:26:44,940 --> 00:26:47,616
This is the one versus 16 too. 
We're going to be... 

520
00:26:47,616 --> 00:26:50,127
I know. 
This is not cool to put the 

521
00:26:50,127 --> 00:26:53,471
Diadora at a 16 against the 
Novablast, but I think I still 

522
00:26:53,471 --> 00:26:56,459
have to go with the Novablast. 
The phone's a little bit nicer. 

523
00:26:56,460 --> 00:26:59,999
I think it's more responsive. 
The upper still done well. 

524
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,540
Like, they definitely like paid 
attention to things with that 

525
00:27:02,540 --> 00:27:05,579
shoe, even if it wasn't a home 
run across our whole team. 

526
00:27:05,580 --> 00:27:10,739
If I was forced to choose one, I
would still go with the 

527
00:27:10,739 --> 00:27:12,719
Novablast. 
And it's also cheaper. 

528
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,879
The Diadora, I think, is at like
180, I think. 

529
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,219
So for 180, it is a little 
steep. 

530
00:27:17,220 --> 00:27:19,559
I think if it was 150, it'd be a
steal. 

531
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:25,720
Uh, but, yeah, I'm going to have
to go with the Novablast and uh,

532
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,919
yeah, that was painful. 
Matt what about you? 

533
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,559
I'm going to go with the 
Novablast, uh, as well. 

534
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,844
I actually totally echo David. 
I didn't let, I loved the 

535
00:27:35,844 --> 00:27:40,433
stability of the Chelia. 
I didn't like how heavy or flat 

536
00:27:40,433 --> 00:27:43,379
it felt for running for walking.
is awesome. 

537
00:27:43,380 --> 00:27:45,719
It's definitely one of those 
premium walking shoes. 

538
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:47,159
I'm like, hey, you need 
something stable? 

539
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:48,899
you want something nice? 
Great. 

540
00:27:48,900 --> 00:27:51,600
But in terms of overall 
versatility, Novablast is going 

541
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,199
to win, even though I, I hate 
the transition of this shoe. 

542
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,599
Version 5 was great. 
I feel like version. 

543
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,335
This is like going back to 
version 4 when it had that 

544
00:28:00,335 --> 00:28:02,605
really slappy transition and I 
understand why they're trying to

545
00:28:02,605 --> 00:28:05,363
do that. 
It just doesn't feel good to me,

546
00:28:05,363 --> 00:28:09,631
but I have gotten tons of miles 
on it and the versatility is 

547
00:28:09,631 --> 00:28:11,451
better. 
It is the better running shoe of

548
00:28:11,451 --> 00:28:13,846
the 2 of them. 
So I'm going to have to go with 

549
00:28:13,846 --> 00:28:16,097
Novablast. 
Yeah, I don't have anything to 

550
00:28:16,097 --> 00:28:18,848
add. 
I was just going to say the 

551
00:28:18,848 --> 00:28:22,970
Diadora shoe, whatever you y'all
want to call it, is great for 

552
00:28:22,970 --> 00:28:26,790
standing and walking. 
It's just, it's, it's top tier 

553
00:28:26,790 --> 00:28:29,879
for that. 
So we got 3 votes for Nova. 

554
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,380
Nova moves on. 
So now we're going to our 2 seed

555
00:28:33,380 --> 00:28:37,818
against our 15 seed. 
This is the Hoka Clifton against

556
00:28:37,818 --> 00:28:41,377
the Mount to Coast R1. 
Matt you get to kick this one 

557
00:28:41,377 --> 00:28:43,608
off. 
So while I appreciate what Mount

558
00:28:43,608 --> 00:28:47,039
to Coast is doing. 
And if we did version 10. 

559
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,139
This would actually be a very 
different story for the Clifton.

560
00:28:49,140 --> 00:28:52,139
But version 11 has crushed it 
for me. 

561
00:28:52,140 --> 00:28:55,170
It has been a fantastic shoe. 
Like I said, I almost have 100 

562
00:28:55,170 --> 00:28:56,699
miles on it. comfort's really 
good. 

563
00:28:56,700 --> 00:29:00,624
I feel like they've done the 
structure of the shoe a lot 

564
00:29:00,624 --> 00:29:03,235
better, where there's actually 
some surprisingly good, like 

565
00:29:03,235 --> 00:29:06,169
just it's such a smoother 
transition throughout the rear 

566
00:29:06,169 --> 00:29:09,719
foot, uh, what's it called? 
They call a rear foot frame. 

567
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,539
What is the phrasing? 
David help me. 

568
00:29:12,540 --> 00:29:14,297
What is it called? 
It's the... 

569
00:29:14,297 --> 00:29:17,339
I'm not sure. 
They, they, like the crash pad? 

570
00:29:17,340 --> 00:29:20,759
Not... 
That's a throwback. 

571
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,419
I don't know how I knew a 2nd 
before you said that. 

572
00:29:24,420 --> 00:29:26,039
No, I was going to do that. 
Why did you do it first? 

573
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,343
No, because it was just a, like,
I deferred to you because I 

574
00:29:29,343 --> 00:29:31,013
thought you would know. 
And then like... 

575
00:29:31,013 --> 00:29:33,834
I mean, they do like the age 
frame and stuff in the Gaviota, 

576
00:29:33,834 --> 00:29:36,110
but not in the Clifton. 
There was a half... like a half 

577
00:29:36,110 --> 00:29:38,040
2nd before you said it. 
I'm like, maybe he's going to 

578
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,840
say the crash bad. 
Although, ironically, they did 

579
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,609
do that. 
The bevel in this shoe is facing

580
00:29:43,609 --> 00:29:46,573
medial and that they do have a 
crash pad where I actually 

581
00:29:46,573 --> 00:29:49,537
didn't like this the 1st few 
steps, but then it breaks in 

582
00:29:49,537 --> 00:29:52,991
very nicely and I had to eat my 
words because normally I hate it

583
00:29:52,991 --> 00:29:54,959
when people do this, but it 
actually worked. 

584
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,451
So super smooth transition, 
softer, really comfortable for 

585
00:29:58,451 --> 00:30:03,414
both walking, running. 
It's long runs, I've used it for

586
00:30:03,414 --> 00:30:06,534
everything except workouts. 
I think the Clifton 11 does a 

587
00:30:06,534 --> 00:30:08,932
really good job. 
I think Mount to Coast is doing 

588
00:30:08,932 --> 00:30:10,734
better. 
I just, some of their, the fits 

589
00:30:10,734 --> 00:30:13,842
a little bit off, has been off 
for me in all those shoes where 

590
00:30:13,842 --> 00:30:16,499
I really just need a 10.5 and 10
hasn't been fitting me. 

591
00:30:16,500 --> 00:30:19,470
And some of the midsoles feel a 
little bit harsher initially 

592
00:30:19,470 --> 00:30:23,108
than I would really like. 
It takes a lot of miles to break

593
00:30:23,108 --> 00:30:25,679
them in, but also these are 
ultra marathon shoes. 

594
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,239
So you're going to get a lot of 
miles in them anyway. 

595
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,699
So like initial comfort, fit, 
stuff like that. 

596
00:30:29,700 --> 00:30:31,820
Clifton's going to win. 
I think Mount to Coast is 

597
00:30:31,820 --> 00:30:34,800
figuring things out. going to be
very dangerous when they lock 

598
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,543
everything in. 
But right now, yeah, Durability 

599
00:30:37,543 --> 00:30:39,994
is amazing. 
Like, these have 100 miles on 

600
00:30:39,994 --> 00:30:42,468
them. 
And, yeah, so that's where the 

601
00:30:42,468 --> 00:30:45,409
Clifton falls short with 
durability, but everything else 

602
00:30:45,409 --> 00:30:49,079
I'm going to have to go with the
Clifton 11. 

603
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:53,519
Uh, yeah, and I'll I'll jump in.
I'll be brief in here. 

604
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,041
I'm also putting on for the 
Clifton 11, even though I like 

605
00:30:57,041 --> 00:31:00,582
the Clifton Pro a lot more. 
We know that that's not the 

606
00:31:00,582 --> 00:31:04,143
flagship shoe and I like the 
Clifton 9 more than the Clifton 

607
00:31:04,143 --> 00:31:08,844
11. 10 was tough for me. 11 
still has that kind of light 

608
00:31:08,844 --> 00:31:11,339
airy run feel, which is which is
pleasant. 

609
00:31:11,340 --> 00:31:14,225
It just, you can't do a whole 
lot in it, and I think the 

610
00:31:14,225 --> 00:31:16,079
durability is lower than I'd 
want it to be. 

611
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,859
Um, but Clifton takes it for me.
What about you, David? 

612
00:31:19,860 --> 00:31:24,222
Yeah, I'm enough to go, Clifton.
I feel like when I come to 

613
00:31:24,222 --> 00:31:26,554
answering that question. 
There are 2 shoes that are 

614
00:31:26,554 --> 00:31:29,734
really meant to just kind of 
shuffle and run your easy days 

615
00:31:29,734 --> 00:31:31,608
in. 
And if I'm forced to choose, 

616
00:31:31,608 --> 00:31:34,019
like, which one would I prefer 
to shuffle in? 

617
00:31:34,020 --> 00:31:38,603
I actually echo what Matt said a
lot because the R1, I felt like 

618
00:31:38,603 --> 00:31:41,219
when I had that, it felt really 
nice. 

619
00:31:41,220 --> 00:31:44,747
The phone was good and it was, 
it felt durable as heck, but I 

620
00:31:44,747 --> 00:31:47,759
felt like I just wanted a little
bit more rounding to it. 

621
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,357
Like it just a little bit. 
Yeah, it just felt like I was 

622
00:31:51,357 --> 00:31:54,558
working just a little harder 
than I wanted to for easy 

623
00:31:54,558 --> 00:31:56,399
shuffling miles. 
Like, it's almost there. 

624
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,297
Like that could, like you said, 
when they fig, get it all dialed

625
00:31:59,297 --> 00:32:00,570
in. 
It could be really, really 

626
00:32:00,570 --> 00:32:02,645
dangerous. 
But I feel like the Clifton just

627
00:32:02,645 --> 00:32:05,039
has a little bit more experience
under its foot. 

628
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,794
Um, yeah, you know, it's like 
Jalen Brown at the Celtics 

629
00:32:08,794 --> 00:32:13,440
taking them on deep runs. 
So not to throw any puns there 

630
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,292
with the trade. 
Anyways, but Clifton's doing 

631
00:32:17,292 --> 00:32:19,799
good. 
It feels airy. 

632
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:21,640
The weights come down. 
I mean, it's like in the 9 

633
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,379
ounces, right? 
Yeah, so I, it feels good. 

634
00:32:25,380 --> 00:32:27,959
It's a nice plush shoe, good 
upper. 

635
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:29,879
The upper is way better than it 
used to be in the 10. 

636
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,039
So I got to go Clifton on this 
one. 

637
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,104
I would say, Mount to Coast, if 
you guys could just bevel the 

638
00:32:35,104 --> 00:32:37,140
heel. 
I know I say this all the time, 

639
00:32:37,140 --> 00:32:39,615
but like especially for an ultra
marathon shoe where you're going

640
00:32:39,615 --> 00:32:42,540
to be on your rear foot because 
it is a more efficient gait 

641
00:32:42,540 --> 00:32:45,015
style for long distances, like 
that, just a little bit more 

642
00:32:45,015 --> 00:32:47,256
bevel. 
And I think David, maybe some of

643
00:32:47,256 --> 00:32:50,703
that came just because it 
wasn't, this was like kind of a 

644
00:32:50,703 --> 00:32:53,573
little bit slightly harsh heel 
transition than just that just 

645
00:32:53,573 --> 00:32:57,017
needed to be a teeny bit softer,
which I understand from a 

646
00:32:57,017 --> 00:32:58,739
resiliency standpoint, but yeah,
100% agree. 

647
00:32:58,740 --> 00:33:02,579
The next is our 3 versus 14 
seed. 

648
00:33:02,580 --> 00:33:06,974
We have the 3 seed of the 
Saucony Ride against the 14 seed

649
00:33:06,974 --> 00:33:11,279
of the Altra Experience Flow 3. 
So I get to start this one. 

650
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:17,160
So the ride over the last number
of years has kind of taken on 

651
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:22,620
the body and the midsole of the 
old Triumphs, but in a lighter 

652
00:33:22,620 --> 00:33:26,120
package. 
So, I think the beauty of the 

653
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,959
old Triumphs has not been 
captured with the new Rides yet.

654
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,959
I think that they still don't 
have a lot. 

655
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:38,230
They want to like do it all, but
they also want this like plush 

656
00:33:38,230 --> 00:33:41,279
midsole that is that kind of 
beaded, um, PWRRUN Plus. 

657
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:46,038
And I've also just had issues 
with some of the fit and the 

658
00:33:46,038 --> 00:33:48,599
flexibility of the forefoot 
particularly for me. 

659
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,839
Um, and then you look at the 
experience flow three. 

660
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,637
They're using the P 35 midsole. 
There a 4 millimeter drop ultra 

661
00:33:55,637 --> 00:33:57,780
shoe. 
It's got a little bit of 

662
00:33:57,780 --> 00:34:01,490
softness to it, but not like 
overly soft, but soft soft for 

663
00:34:01,490 --> 00:34:04,425
ultra. 
Um, and I would have put that 

664
00:34:04,425 --> 00:34:10,415
shoe in one of like the top 2 
for my trainer of the year, 3 is

665
00:34:10,415 --> 00:34:12,659
even better from a fit 
perspective. 

666
00:34:12,659 --> 00:34:15,975
So I just haven't been able to 
run it as much because it, 

667
00:34:15,975 --> 00:34:19,034
again, just like the ride, it's 
a little bit more flexible in 

668
00:34:19,034 --> 00:34:20,819
the forefoot, but the fit is 
good. 

669
00:34:20,820 --> 00:34:24,563
It doesn't have that low volume 
like some other ultra shoes have

670
00:34:24,563 --> 00:34:28,097
been having lately. 
So for me, I'm picking the flow 

671
00:34:28,097 --> 00:34:31,995
3 over the ride. 
So my vote goes to that shoe, 

672
00:34:31,995 --> 00:34:34,699
the combination of the geometry.
having the 4 millimeter drop 

673
00:34:34,699 --> 00:34:36,659
allows me to get a lot of miles 
in it. 

674
00:34:36,659 --> 00:34:39,696
It's soft enough, and it's light
enough, and it's just really 

675
00:34:39,696 --> 00:34:43,289
pleasant to run in. 
I've gotten like long runs with 

676
00:34:43,289 --> 00:34:47,717
some tempo in this shoe. 
So it's it's a great shoe. 

677
00:34:47,717 --> 00:34:52,018
And I, that's my pick. 
Uh, David, you're next. 

678
00:34:52,020 --> 00:34:55,859
Okay, so I think I'm going to go
with the sock any ride. 

679
00:34:55,860 --> 00:35:00,735
I'm not a hater of the Ultra 
Ford experience, but I just, I 

680
00:35:00,735 --> 00:35:05,985
feel like the fit, it still is a
little bit lower volume, and it 

681
00:35:05,985 --> 00:35:10,860
still isn't quite as comfortable
as I would like it to be for 

682
00:35:10,860 --> 00:35:14,125
being my workhorse trainer. 
I feel like it basically 

683
00:35:14,125 --> 00:35:18,008
parallels the journey of the 
Clifton, but I would just take 

684
00:35:18,008 --> 00:35:21,887
the Clifton in that situation of
like there's a slightly rocket 

685
00:35:21,887 --> 00:35:23,999
experience, easy shuffling kind 
of shoe. 

686
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,342
Uh, it's almost there. 
I feel like they actually the 

687
00:35:27,342 --> 00:35:29,939
P35 midsole is much better than 
what they used to have. 

688
00:35:29,940 --> 00:35:32,159
Like it's not a bad shoe by any 
means. 

689
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,816
I just feel like the PWRRUN Plus
can take a little bit more of a 

690
00:35:35,816 --> 00:35:37,499
beating. 
It's a little bit more bouncy. 

691
00:35:37,500 --> 00:35:41,464
I think I can get a little bit 
more out of the shoe and I think

692
00:35:41,464 --> 00:35:44,922
the upper has a little bit more 
space to it in the Saucony Ride 

693
00:35:44,922 --> 00:35:47,639
19, that is. and it's it's plush
while still being breathable. 

694
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:52,207
And although I feel like it kind
of moved away from some of the 

695
00:35:52,207 --> 00:35:54,738
previous rides. 
I think in this situation, head 

696
00:35:54,738 --> 00:35:59,111
to head, I'm still going to have
to go Saucony Ride 19 as my 

697
00:35:59,111 --> 00:36:02,699
workhorse for those two. 
Yeah, it's a close one though. 

698
00:36:02,700 --> 00:36:05,999
I actually, the Altra shoe is a 
good shoe. 

699
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,879
I don't want it to feel like 
there's any shade thrown in it. 

700
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:10,739
I just I'm against the wall 
here. 

701
00:36:10,740 --> 00:36:14,555
Matt, what about you? 
I'm going to be more harsh where

702
00:36:14,555 --> 00:36:17,999
the Triumph this year is one of 
the best shoes out there. 

703
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,407
It is awesome. 
The midsole for what you're 

704
00:36:20,407 --> 00:36:22,979
getting for the costs. 
It is fantastic. 

705
00:36:22,980 --> 00:36:26,759
It's lighter, super responsive. 
You can do a lot. 

706
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:32,219
The Ride has lost that where I 
just found it's too mushy. 

707
00:36:32,220 --> 00:36:34,619
I can barely run in it. 
Fits fine. 

708
00:36:34,620 --> 00:36:38,381
It's comfortable, but the mid, 
it's just not what I associate 

709
00:36:38,381 --> 00:36:41,791
with that lighter, kind of 
responsive, just a, like not 

710
00:36:41,791 --> 00:36:44,519
overly soft, but like, it's a 
do-it-all shoe. 

711
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,255
The new ride is not that shoe. 
And I got to give ultra credit 

712
00:36:48,255 --> 00:36:50,819
where some of the experiences I 
have not liked. 

713
00:36:50,820 --> 00:36:53,589
I think the new P35 midsole, 
while not perfect, is a lot 

714
00:36:53,589 --> 00:36:55,080
better. 
It doesn't feel as harsh or does

715
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,059
it break down as quick as some 
of the other models? 

716
00:36:57,060 --> 00:36:59,879
And I think they did a much 
better job updating it. 

717
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:02,133
It's a lot more. 
It's a lot more runnable for me 

718
00:37:02,133 --> 00:37:04,263
right now. 
I just think the ride, yeah, I, 

719
00:37:04,263 --> 00:37:07,344
Nathan, you hit it on the head. 
It's like trying to do what the 

720
00:37:07,344 --> 00:37:08,879
triumph did, but I don't think 
it should. 

721
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,939
And so I'm going to have to go 
with the Altra Experience Flow. 

722
00:37:11,940 --> 00:37:15,479
Our 1st upset of the day. 14 
over three. 

723
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,579
I love it. 
Cool. 

724
00:37:17,580 --> 00:37:19,319
Well, let's move to our next 
one. 

725
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:23,380
This was one where we had to 
debate which shoe to put in here

726
00:37:23,380 --> 00:37:27,147
for this brand, but our 4 seed 
is the New Balance 1080, which 

727
00:37:27,147 --> 00:37:29,459
we were like, is that the 
premium one? 

728
00:37:29,460 --> 00:37:36,967
Is it is the 880, but we fell on
the 1080 against the Topo 

729
00:37:36,967 --> 00:37:39,825
Phantom 4? 
So David, you get to start this 

730
00:37:39,825 --> 00:37:42,375
one. 
Topo Phantom 4 against the New 

731
00:37:42,375 --> 00:37:45,719
Balance 1080. 
Oh, that's hard. 

732
00:37:45,720 --> 00:37:48,810
That's so hard. 
I actually, I know you guys 

733
00:37:48,810 --> 00:37:50,819
didn't love the Fresh Foam 
midsole. 

734
00:37:50,820 --> 00:37:52,319
I actually got along fine with 
it. 

735
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,716
I think the 1080, though, it 
feels like it differed where it 

736
00:37:55,716 --> 00:37:58,823
used to be the stiff rockered 
kind of plush experience where 

737
00:37:58,823 --> 00:38:01,079
now it's plush, but it's 
flexible up front. 

738
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,809
And it's just a different 1080 
than it used to be with that 

739
00:38:04,809 --> 00:38:08,939
said, I still liked it. 
The Phantom solid, though. 

740
00:38:08,940 --> 00:38:12,909
It's one of those shoes where it
just, like, it doesn't have the 

741
00:38:12,909 --> 00:38:15,959
most lively midsole, but the 
geometry is done really well. 

742
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:17,999
The upper is done incredibly 
well. 

743
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:23,331
And it's just an all around 
comfortable shoe and for easy 

744
00:38:23,331 --> 00:38:26,364
daily miles. 
Shoot, the Phantom 4, I think, 

745
00:38:26,364 --> 00:38:29,840
might be calling my name. 
The 1080 I feel like the upper 

746
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:31,859
could use a little bit of work 
on the newest version. 

747
00:38:31,860 --> 00:38:35,141
It's kind of, it's snug, but 
it's kind of stretchy and it 

748
00:38:35,141 --> 00:38:38,655
feels just a little bit off. 
The midsole, I think, is 

749
00:38:38,655 --> 00:38:41,620
actually really promising. 
I think if they can dial that in

750
00:38:41,620 --> 00:38:43,199
with the good geometry. 
It could work. 

751
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:48,206
Uh, but I think the 1080 just 
feels like a slightly just 

752
00:38:48,206 --> 00:38:51,959
unfinished product to me where 
the phantom, it's there. 

753
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,999
It's the phantom is what the 
phantom has always been. 

754
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,564
Just slightly refined. 
And it's always been a solid 

755
00:38:57,564 --> 00:39:00,899
trainer in our reviews and we've
always done well with it. 

756
00:39:00,900 --> 00:39:03,599
So I'm going to go with the 
Phantom. 

757
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,279
Yeah, that's going to be an 
upset vote. 

758
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:09,558
Matt, what about you? 
Ooh, I'm in the same boat as 

759
00:39:09,558 --> 00:39:13,806
David, where, yeah, I, I found 
the 1080 to be an interesting 

760
00:39:13,806 --> 00:39:16,638
transition, Infineon, isn't my 
favorite, although there's some 

761
00:39:16,638 --> 00:39:20,526
new versions of Fresh Foam that 
I'm actually enjoying quite a 

762
00:39:20,526 --> 00:39:23,760
bit. 
The baggy upper was not my 

763
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:29,579
favorite thing in this show. 
I really had a heart. 

764
00:39:29,580 --> 00:39:33,959
The volume is weirdly high in 
places and low in others. 

765
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,517
I had a really hard time locking
this up or down and I slid 

766
00:39:37,517 --> 00:39:39,874
around a lot. 
I think the midsole, it's super 

767
00:39:39,874 --> 00:39:42,239
light. 
I think it's one of the light. 

768
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:43,859
The triumph might have. 
No, it's light. 

769
00:39:43,860 --> 00:39:45,659
From 1080, it's pretty light. 
What was the weight? 

770
00:39:45,660 --> 00:39:48,359
is it sub nine? 
I can't remember. 

771
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,099
I think it's the nines. 
I got to look it up. 

772
00:39:50,100 --> 00:39:52,979
I don't remember at the time, 
but the triumph was sub nine. 

773
00:39:52,980 --> 00:39:56,490
Yeah, so I think the tribe may 
have gotten this in terms of 

774
00:39:56,490 --> 00:39:58,379
like the lightest premium 
trainer out there. 

775
00:39:58,380 --> 00:40:02,759
But, yeah, some of the outsold 
durability wasn't great. 

776
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:04,439
There's a lot of exposed outsole
here. 

777
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,510
I think it's nice. 
I think if the midsole could be 

778
00:40:07,510 --> 00:40:10,259
a little bit more of what they 
advertise, that'd be great. 

779
00:40:10,260 --> 00:40:13,736
It's just to me, it wasn't as 
light, but it's not as like 

780
00:40:13,736 --> 00:40:16,139
responsive as I would want this 
shoe to be. 

781
00:40:16,140 --> 00:40:18,839
Whereas the Phantom, like all 
around her. 

782
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,260
Obviously, fit really dialed in.
The midsole is not the most 

783
00:40:22,260 --> 00:40:23,519
exciting thing, but it's more 
stable. 

784
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:27,479
I saw 2 people running in the 
Phantom this morning. 

785
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,820
Out in Sherwood. 
I'm like, oh, I know what that 

786
00:40:30,820 --> 00:40:34,940
shoe is. 
And so I'm going to have to go 

787
00:40:34,940 --> 00:40:37,559
with... 
Oh, man. 

788
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:41,611
Before you make that decision, 
I'm just going to tell you 9.2 

789
00:40:41,611 --> 00:40:45,053
ounces, men's size 9. 
So, for the 1080, for the 1080, 

790
00:40:45,053 --> 00:40:47,743
yeah, triumph beats that because
I think it's 8.9. 

791
00:40:47,743 --> 00:40:51,617
I love how Matt, like, it has 
brought up the triumph as a 

792
00:40:51,617 --> 00:40:54,299
comparative multiple times it's 
not even on the list. 

793
00:40:54,300 --> 00:40:56,699
It's not in the tournament. 
should have been. 

794
00:40:56,700 --> 00:40:59,033
It should have been. 
I'm not going to argue, but... 

795
00:40:59,033 --> 00:41:00,419
Maybe after this year, it will 
be. 

796
00:41:00,420 --> 00:41:02,010
Who knows? 
Maybe the triumph will become 

797
00:41:02,010 --> 00:41:05,717
the new king of Saucony. 
I think it is, but, uh, I mean, 

798
00:41:05,717 --> 00:41:08,258
I really like the triumph too. 
But, yeah. 

799
00:41:08,258 --> 00:41:12,401
Yeah, at its current state, I'm 
going to have to go with the 

800
00:41:12,401 --> 00:41:14,250
Phantom. 
I've actually put a lot more 

801
00:41:14,250 --> 00:41:16,379
miles, especially walking in the
Phantom. second upset. 

802
00:41:16,380 --> 00:41:19,199
I'm picking the Phantom 4 as 
well. 

803
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:23,298
The flexibility of the forefoot 
in the 1080 was not great for 

804
00:41:23,298 --> 00:41:25,740
me. 
The one issue I've had with the 

805
00:41:25,740 --> 00:41:29,340
Phantom 4 is they do have a 
lateral sidewall that extends a 

806
00:41:29,340 --> 00:41:32,040
little bit more towards the 
forefoot, that's irritated my 

807
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,940
foot minorly before, but not in 
a major way, but I still prefer 

808
00:41:35,940 --> 00:41:39,330
running in the over the teenee. 
The other thing, because the 

809
00:41:39,330 --> 00:41:42,828
1080s spans this kind of premium
category, it's 20 bucks more, 

810
00:41:42,828 --> 00:41:46,182
then the Phantom 4. 
So, you know, I think you're 

811
00:41:46,182 --> 00:41:50,335
looking 145 and the Phantom, 
whereas 165 or so for the 1080 

812
00:41:50,335 --> 00:41:55,132
or something like that. 
So yeah, Phantom 4 for me as 

813
00:41:55,132 --> 00:41:58,840
well. 
All right, so now we are onto 

814
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:02,519
our 5 seed, which is the Nike 
Pegasus. 

815
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:06,299
Against the 12 seed, the Adidas 
Supernova Rise 3. 

816
00:42:06,300 --> 00:42:11,237
Matt, you get to start this one.
Well, I haven't gotten to run in

817
00:42:11,237 --> 00:42:14,939
the Pegasus 42 because they did 
send it to us. 

818
00:42:14,940 --> 00:42:16,559
Thanks, thank you. 
I'm just kidding. 

819
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:22,152
The Supernova Rise 3, I did 
initially not like, and then it 

820
00:42:22,152 --> 00:42:25,830
has actually grown on me. 
The midsole takes some time to 

821
00:42:25,830 --> 00:42:28,079
break in. 
The fit is really interesting. 

822
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,019
There is a nice heel bevel 
despite the flare. 

823
00:42:31,020 --> 00:42:34,580
Man. 
The DreamStrike just takes a 

824
00:42:34,580 --> 00:42:37,986
second to break in. 
My last experience with the Peg 

825
00:42:37,986 --> 00:42:41,737
41 was pretty disappointing, 
where I just, I felt like the 

826
00:42:41,737 --> 00:42:45,348
midsole was dead on arrival. 
I really tried to force it, 

827
00:42:45,348 --> 00:42:48,216
didn't work for me. 
I can totally say be a great, 

828
00:42:48,216 --> 00:42:50,039
like, walking shoe or new a 
running shoe. 

829
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:54,913
But I'm probably going to have 
to go with the supernova rise 

830
00:42:54,913 --> 00:42:57,732
three. 
Which, by the way, what happened

831
00:42:57,732 --> 00:43:00,899
to the Solarglide 3? 
We review. 

832
00:43:00,900 --> 00:43:03,155
I reviewed it, and then it was 
never available in United 

833
00:43:03,155 --> 00:43:04,488
States. 
Adidas, you want to tell us 

834
00:43:04,488 --> 00:43:06,359
unless it suddenly got available
and I missed it recently. 

835
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,466
Like, what happened? 
It was like only available in 

836
00:43:08,466 --> 00:43:11,219
Europe, and we had a bunch of 
comments on our video. 

837
00:43:11,220 --> 00:43:12,239
We were like, hey, where is 
this? 

838
00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:14,159
And I'm like, I don't know. 
And they checked it. 

839
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,920
It is not available. 
But the rise 3 is stable 

840
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,129
neutral, which is really nice. 
It took some time to figure that

841
00:43:20,129 --> 00:43:22,139
out, but it is actually halfway 
decent in that regard. 

842
00:43:22,140 --> 00:43:25,319
So I'm going to have to give it 
to the riots. 

843
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:31,281
Yeah, I think for me, the, I 
mean, I'm going to pick the 

844
00:43:31,281 --> 00:43:34,308
Pegasus. 
Um, And it's really just the 

845
00:43:34,308 --> 00:43:38,579
versatility side of things that 
I think the Pegasus has. 

846
00:43:38,580 --> 00:43:42,959
I agree with you, Matt, that it 
has not been a lively fun shoe. 

847
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:47,468
Uh, but it's light enough and it
just has kind of this fit that 

848
00:43:47,468 --> 00:43:50,999
just feels fast, which is a 
weird thing to maybe say. 

849
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,479
But I think that the fit does 
fit me well. 

850
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:59,116
It has enough responsiveness, 
even though the foam isn't super

851
00:43:59,116 --> 00:44:02,424
lively. 
I've enjoyed having the Zoom air

852
00:44:02,424 --> 00:44:06,560
pockets in the forefoot. 
I, I think it's, it's a, it's a 

853
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:08,134
Pegasus. 
The Pegasus has been the Pegasus

854
00:44:08,134 --> 00:44:10,499
for a while and you can do a lot
in it. 

855
00:44:10,500 --> 00:44:13,712
And I think about, like, if you 
can handle neutral mechanics, 

856
00:44:13,712 --> 00:44:16,331
you don't need structure 
underneath your foot, it's gonna

857
00:44:16,331 --> 00:44:20,182
be able to do a lot for you. 
And so for that reason, I pick 

858
00:44:20,182 --> 00:44:22,319
that. 
Supernova rise isn't a bad shoe.

859
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,662
I just don't enjoy running it as
much as I would, again, standing

860
00:44:25,662 --> 00:44:28,072
walking. 
I think it doesn't have as much 

861
00:44:28,072 --> 00:44:29,990
versatility. 
So that's why I'm going Peg, but

862
00:44:29,990 --> 00:44:33,799
it was close for me. 
And I do like the rise for other

863
00:44:33,799 --> 00:44:37,290
purposes, but not as versatile. 
Before we get to our deciding 

864
00:44:37,290 --> 00:44:40,939
vote, I'd love for the listeners
to tell us, because I was 

865
00:44:40,939 --> 00:44:44,587
arguing with these 2 that the 
Vomero, I think, is more like 

866
00:44:44,587 --> 00:44:48,235
the flagship at this point, but 
they shut me down to the 

867
00:44:48,235 --> 00:44:49,800
Pegasus. 
So please let me know if I'm 

868
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:53,425
wrong in the comics. 1000%. 
Dude, Vomero is such a better 

869
00:44:53,425 --> 00:44:54,939
shoe. 
But you walk into Dick's 

870
00:44:54,939 --> 00:44:56,819
Sporting Goods and you can buy a
peg. 

871
00:44:56,820 --> 00:45:01,056
And you might be able to buy a 
boy. into any university locker 

872
00:45:01,056 --> 00:45:04,439
room that is Nike sponsored. 
Yeah, everyone's got pegs on. 

873
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,319
I don't know. 
I've seen a lot of Vomeros too, 

874
00:45:08,319 --> 00:45:12,239
so that's, you know, and I live 
next to Nike, so... 

875
00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:16,116
That doesn't help. 
Anyway, David, I'm going to get 

876
00:45:16,116 --> 00:45:19,400
wrecked in the comments. 
I think an interesting question,

877
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,800
though, is in terms of the 
flagship, because of popularity,

878
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,860
the Rise 3 versus the Evo SL 
from Adidas. 

879
00:45:25,860 --> 00:45:29,000
Yeah, but that's not a flagship.
It's not a flagship by any 

880
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,379
means, but it might very well be
by the end of next year. 

881
00:45:31,380 --> 00:45:34,679
You know, now they have 4 or 5 
different versions of it. 

882
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,539
Well, you guys did make the 
point version. 

883
00:45:36,540 --> 00:45:39,359
With the Novablast saying, hey, 
this is the most popular thing. 

884
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:41,939
Technically, it took time to get
there. 

885
00:45:41,940 --> 00:45:46,560
It did, but I think even if the 
Evo SL is their most popular 

886
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,919
seller and most top selling too.
No, I think it is. 

887
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:53,232
This, it was this last 2025. 
which is why they have 40 

888
00:45:53,232 --> 00:45:57,179
different versions of it. 
So they don't have 40 versions. 

889
00:45:57,180 --> 00:46:00,359
But I mean, I, as far as, like, 
neutral training issue, though. 

890
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,399
I feel like the rise does hit 
the category. 

891
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,019
That's fair. 
Yeah, that's true. 

892
00:46:04,020 --> 00:46:07,703
I do think it hits the category 
better, but I think it's an 

893
00:46:07,703 --> 00:46:10,250
interesting one where it's like,
from a popularity standpoint, 

894
00:46:10,250 --> 00:46:13,199
neutral as well. the, how do the
Adizero Evo SLs figure in there?

895
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:17,040
And that could entirely change 
the landscape of this, but as 

896
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:20,879
far as the rise goes, I agree 
with everything Matt said. 

897
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:22,739
I mean, the DreamStrike midsole 
is interesting. 

898
00:46:22,740 --> 00:46:26,879
It's it's nice, but it does take
a little bit to break in. 

899
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,743
And it's it's soft and it's 
compliant, but it does have just

900
00:46:30,743 --> 00:46:34,916
a little bit of bounce back, but
it's not like this super snappy 

901
00:46:34,916 --> 00:46:37,230
fast bounce back. 
It's just like, it just gives 

902
00:46:37,230 --> 00:46:39,479
you a little bit of a bounce in 
your step. 

903
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,976
That about all it does. 
And it feels nice for just 

904
00:46:41,976 --> 00:46:44,339
taking a beating and going on 
easy runs. 

905
00:46:44,340 --> 00:46:48,221
The fit was a little narrow for 
me, but I feel like it was nice 

906
00:46:48,221 --> 00:46:49,908
enough. 
I mean, the peg has a pretty 

907
00:46:49,908 --> 00:46:52,735
narrow fit too. 
So it's not like that one is 

908
00:46:52,735 --> 00:46:55,947
exempt from this conversation. 
I like what you said about the 

909
00:46:55,947 --> 00:46:58,769
versatility of the peg. 
I think that is one of the shoes

910
00:46:58,769 --> 00:47:00,899
where, again, you go look at any
university locker room. 

911
00:47:00,900 --> 00:47:03,059
These guys are a lot of them are
ripping workouts and pegs. 

912
00:47:03,060 --> 00:47:06,289
And you have like kind of a lug 
design on the bottom, a little 

913
00:47:06,289 --> 00:47:08,772
bit of flexibility up front. 
It's not the fastest midsole by 

914
00:47:08,772 --> 00:47:11,873
any means, but it's light enough
and you can just kind of do a 

915
00:47:11,873 --> 00:47:15,779
little bit of everything in it. 
It's it's a hard one for me. 

916
00:47:15,780 --> 00:47:19,101
You know, I think if I'm 
choosing personally for my own 

917
00:47:19,101 --> 00:47:23,014
experience in both of the shoes,
if I had to strictly just choose

918
00:47:23,014 --> 00:47:27,228
one shoe for my training miles, 
I think I am going to go with 

919
00:47:27,228 --> 00:47:30,539
the Adidas Rise, I think I'm 
going to upset the peg. 

920
00:47:30,540 --> 00:47:32,759
You kind of did a switchy 
change, yeah. 

921
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:34,019
The way you're starting to talk 
about it. 

922
00:47:34,020 --> 00:47:38,884
Yeah, I can see why the peg gets
taken, but for me, I'm probably 

923
00:47:38,884 --> 00:47:41,570
going to have a rotation. 
I've been doing this long 

924
00:47:41,570 --> 00:47:43,236
enough. 
I'm not going to be doing 

925
00:47:43,236 --> 00:47:46,319
workouts in my rise. 
Nor do I need to. 

926
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,679
So if I'm just going easy miles,
I'm going to go with the rice. 

927
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,139
perfect. 
All right. 

928
00:47:52,140 --> 00:47:56,799
Now we have our 6 seed, the 
Brooks Ghost. which I think 

929
00:47:56,799 --> 00:48:01,031
seating wise probably could have
been much higher from a sale, if

930
00:48:01,031 --> 00:48:04,199
we look at sales, like from a 
sales perspective. 

931
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:06,660
Yeah, it could have been way up 
there. could have even been one,

932
00:48:06,660 --> 00:48:07,515
honestly. 
Yeah. 

933
00:48:07,515 --> 00:48:11,633
Like it, anyway. 
So that's the 6th seed against 

934
00:48:11,633 --> 00:48:14,279
the 11th seed, the Skechers 
Arrow Burst. 

935
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:19,499
I am 1st this time. 
Yes, I am 1st this time. 

936
00:48:19,500 --> 00:48:22,439
This one's honestly an easy pick
for me. 

937
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:27,539
I have not enjoyed running in a 
Brooks Ghost in a while. 

938
00:48:27,540 --> 00:48:33,390
Not that it's not a great shoe 
to walk and stand in — it really

939
00:48:33,390 --> 00:48:37,890
hits that market super well. 
I don't think it's geometry and 

940
00:48:37,890 --> 00:48:43,403
it's foam is really fit for 
doing a lot of mileage for me 

941
00:48:43,403 --> 00:48:47,219
and what I enjoy and the amount 
of firmness. 

942
00:48:47,220 --> 00:48:51,315
Um, it just doesn't fit me much,
whereas on the other hand, the 

943
00:48:51,315 --> 00:48:54,150
sketcher's arrow burst. 
And this one has more foam than 

944
00:48:54,150 --> 00:48:57,660
some of these others, but the 
price point is down with all of 

945
00:48:57,660 --> 00:48:59,339
these turns. 
I think it's 140 bucks. 

946
00:48:59,340 --> 00:49:01,859
I got tons of miles in on that 
shoe. 

947
00:49:01,860 --> 00:49:05,322
I've loved that shoe. 
Um, nice and compliant, a little

948
00:49:05,322 --> 00:49:09,243
bit of responsiveness, doesn't 
feel as heavy as the weight is 

949
00:49:09,243 --> 00:49:11,219
listed. 
So that's my pick. 

950
00:49:11,220 --> 00:49:13,739
Arrow Burst for me. 
David, what about you? 

951
00:49:13,740 --> 00:49:18,805
It's a hard one for me. 
I feel like where the ghost 

952
00:49:18,805 --> 00:49:21,213
wins. 
It's one of the few kind of 

953
00:49:21,213 --> 00:49:24,003
firmer, higher drop options on 
the market still for those 

954
00:49:24,003 --> 00:49:27,979
looking for that. 
And I feel like the DNA loft has

955
00:49:27,979 --> 00:49:29,939
gotten better from previous 
versions. 

956
00:49:29,940 --> 00:49:33,660
It's still pretty firm. 
It's not the most responsive 

957
00:49:33,660 --> 00:49:37,020
thing out there, but it's softer
than it used to be, and it can 

958
00:49:37,020 --> 00:49:40,124
take a beating for sure. 
You know, like if that's a, like

959
00:49:40,124 --> 00:49:43,106
if you're looking to have that 
as a workhorse trainer, it 

960
00:49:43,106 --> 00:49:45,645
certainly can be. 
The arrow burst is an 

961
00:49:45,645 --> 00:49:49,095
interesting one because that one
you, it's almost like the 

962
00:49:49,095 --> 00:49:52,890
Paramount Max, but a little bit 
more tame, where you definitely 

963
00:49:52,890 --> 00:49:56,339
get a little bit more compliance
and bounds to it. 

964
00:49:56,340 --> 00:50:01,099
Like, there's an experience that
you notice with that almost 

965
00:50:01,099 --> 00:50:04,650
immediately that is noticeable. 
And maybe it's not the fastest 

966
00:50:04,650 --> 00:50:08,001
shoe out there, but at 140. 
I mean, the more I think about 

967
00:50:08,001 --> 00:50:10,669
this, like it's actually, it's 
it's quite good value for what 

968
00:50:10,669 --> 00:50:13,199
you're getting in that shoe. 
100%. 

969
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:17,339
Yeah, I need to stop advocating.
Yeah, I know. 

970
00:50:17,340 --> 00:50:19,573
Like, what are you doing, Harry?
You're trying to lead me in a 

971
00:50:19,573 --> 00:50:21,119
certain direction? 
Like, come on, man. 

972
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,925
I'm reasoning through this as 
I'm talking and you're over here

973
00:50:23,925 --> 00:50:26,759
like, yeah, pick that one. 
Great point, great point. 

974
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:32,999
Yeah that's solid. 
You're doing good, kid. 

975
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:37,500
It's a hard one, man. 
I, and then what the ghost is, I

976
00:50:37,500 --> 00:50:40,139
want 145. 
Ghost is one. 

977
00:50:40,140 --> 00:50:42,419
Is it 150 now? 
I'll look it. 

978
00:50:42,420 --> 00:50:47,759
The ghost the Ghost Amp is 150. 
And that's a great true. 

979
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:52,259
Yeah, that's I was going to say,
I like that. 

980
00:50:52,260 --> 00:50:55,799
Yeah, it's 150 for the ghost. 
150 for the ghost. 

981
00:50:55,800 --> 00:51:00,116
For 140, I think I probably am 
going to go with the Sketcher's 

982
00:51:00,116 --> 00:51:02,109
arrow burst. 
I think it's an interesting 

983
00:51:02,109 --> 00:51:04,285
enough experience. 
I think it's a fun enough 

984
00:51:04,285 --> 00:51:06,119
experience. 
It's a stable enough experience.

985
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:10,362
It's not like a stability shoe, 
but like I feel like if you were

986
00:51:10,362 --> 00:51:14,045
to make a purchase on it. 
It's a relatively safe purchase 

987
00:51:14,045 --> 00:51:17,399
to have a fun-ish ride on your 
easy days. 

988
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,919
And that's no shade of the 
ghost. 

989
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:20,999
I actually really like the 
ghost. 

990
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:23,816
The ghost was one of the shoes 
that I was running in as my foot

991
00:51:23,816 --> 00:51:25,499
was getting better and it worked
well for me. 

992
00:51:25,500 --> 00:51:29,678
Um, I think a lot of the things 
about the ghost have gotten 

993
00:51:29,678 --> 00:51:32,226
better. 
Um, but yeah, I think I'm going 

994
00:51:32,226 --> 00:51:35,399
to go with the Sketcher's arrow 
burst on this one. 

995
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,379
I wasn't sure that I was going 
to go that way. 

996
00:51:37,380 --> 00:51:39,059
Maybe Nate did just lead me. 
I don't know. 

997
00:51:39,060 --> 00:51:42,779
Maybe I'm, yeah, maybe I'm just 
easily swayed. 

998
00:51:42,780 --> 00:51:45,620
But yeah, I think I am. 
I think I am going to go with 

999
00:51:45,620 --> 00:51:46,619
that. 
That's my final pick. 

1000
00:51:46,620 --> 00:51:48,860
All right. 
Matt, do you have any final 

1001
00:51:48,860 --> 00:51:50,579
thoughts on it? 
We know what's moving forward. 

1002
00:51:50,580 --> 00:51:52,176
Yeah. 
I mean... 

1003
00:51:52,176 --> 00:51:55,679
So, like, I appreciate it what 
Skechers did. 

1004
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:57,119
I just couldn't run in this 
shoe. 

1005
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:59,639
I found it to, It wasn't stable 
enough for me. 

1006
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:02,590
The fit was kind of weird. 
Um, transition was kind of 

1007
00:52:02,590 --> 00:52:04,019
awkward. 
It was, it's cool though. 

1008
00:52:04,020 --> 00:52:05,819
I was like, okay, I like what 
you guys doing. 

1009
00:52:05,820 --> 00:52:08,820
Ironically, with the Brooks 
Ghost, the new one, all these 

1010
00:52:08,820 --> 00:52:11,519
ghosts, I have to go up a half 
size. 

1011
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:13,980
It's too short for me. 
The sizing has been more weird 

1012
00:52:13,980 --> 00:52:17,034
than ever before. 
And the Ghost 18 actually caused

1013
00:52:17,034 --> 00:52:20,219
me a significant amount of 
lateral ankle pain. 

1014
00:52:20,220 --> 00:52:23,619
The 1st several runs. 
So the 1st run that I did in it,

1015
00:52:23,619 --> 00:52:26,692
and I almost didn't continue. 
Once I got past that, it was 

1016
00:52:26,692 --> 00:52:28,919
better. 
The midsole's not exciting. 

1017
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:32,857
I'm actually like disappointed 
in the 18, but I got, I think my

1018
00:52:32,857 --> 00:52:36,179
hopes came back when I saw what 
the ghost amp was. 

1019
00:52:36,180 --> 00:52:39,887
To me, the Ghost Amp is kind of 
where I would expect the ghost 

1020
00:52:39,887 --> 00:52:43,319
to be now, but once this breaks 
in, I will give it credit. 

1021
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,030
It's super durable. 
It's very stable neutral, and 

1022
00:52:46,030 --> 00:52:48,929
even though the drop is 
decreasing, it still feels a 

1023
00:52:48,929 --> 00:52:51,819
little bit higher drop, and it's
a great entry-level running 

1024
00:52:51,819 --> 00:52:54,998
shoe, people that need a little 
bit more structure, but don't 

1025
00:52:54,998 --> 00:52:57,599
want a stability shoe and a more
popular model. 

1026
00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,974
So I'm after breaking, I'm 
actually going to have to, even 

1027
00:52:59,974 --> 00:53:02,339
though it doesn't matter, I'm 
going to go with the ghost. 

1028
00:53:02,340 --> 00:53:03,959
Cool. 
Great. 

1029
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:05,879
Not that it matters, but you 
know. 

1030
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:10,559
All right, we have 2 more 
matches in round one. 

1031
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:14,699
The 1st one is our 7 seed, the 
Mizuno Waverider. 

1032
00:53:14,700 --> 00:53:18,899
And the 10 seed, the Puma 
Velocity Nitro. 

1033
00:53:18,900 --> 00:53:25,859
Oh, that's a tough seed. 
And this one starts with David. 

1034
00:53:25,860 --> 00:53:29,219
That's the beauty of these 
middle seed matchups, right? 

1035
00:53:29,220 --> 00:53:32,639
where it's like flip a coin and 
we'll just see. 

1036
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:35,459
Um, I haven't run in the most 
recent velocity. 

1037
00:53:35,460 --> 00:53:37,259
I know it's an ATPU midsole now,
right? 

1038
00:53:37,260 --> 00:53:42,119
So it's probably a lot of fun. 
I'm going to have to just go off

1039
00:53:42,119 --> 00:53:45,623
of my most recent memory of the 
velocity, which was a really 

1040
00:53:45,623 --> 00:53:48,156
solid neutral trainer. 
It was kind of like the peg, but

1041
00:53:48,156 --> 00:53:50,639
a little better in my mind, at 
least the way it ran. 

1042
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:55,079
Um, I'm gonna have to give it to
the Waverider, though. 

1043
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:58,332
I am. 
It's, I mean, for the stack 

1044
00:53:58,332 --> 00:54:03,028
height, you get the experience 
you get like, I feel like the 

1045
00:54:03,028 --> 00:54:04,791
versatility. 
Both of those are really 

1046
00:54:04,791 --> 00:54:08,508
versatile shoes. 
Uh, but I think it just edges it

1047
00:54:08,508 --> 00:54:10,850
out slightly. 
I think it's going to be a 

1048
00:54:10,850 --> 00:54:12,839
durable workhorse that can do a 
lot for you. 

1049
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:16,273
Not that the other one can't, 
but I'm going to go waveriter 

1050
00:54:16,273 --> 00:54:18,560
30. 
If it was way better 29, I would

1051
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:20,039
probably not pick it. 
I agree. 

1052
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:22,739
Cool. 
What about you, Matt? 

1053
00:54:22,740 --> 00:54:27,060
So I can appreciate the velocity
nitro, but I actually think it's

1054
00:54:27,060 --> 00:54:29,688
less versatile. 
I think it's less versatile into

1055
00:54:29,688 --> 00:54:32,862
slower training paces and it's 
way better into faster up-tempo 

1056
00:54:32,862 --> 00:54:36,299
stuff. 
Very narrow, um, very bouncy. 

1057
00:54:36,300 --> 00:54:38,099
It did not work well for me 
running easy. 

1058
00:54:38,100 --> 00:54:40,859
Picking up the pace, doing 
strides, doing workouts. 

1059
00:54:40,860 --> 00:54:44,061
That's actually where I work 
better, but the Waverider 30 can

1060
00:54:44,061 --> 00:54:46,679
also do that and easier training
paces as well. 

1061
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:50,487
So I think from the overall 
standpoint, the Wave 30 Writer 

1062
00:54:50,487 --> 00:54:52,379
30 wins. 
It's a great show. 

1063
00:54:52,380 --> 00:54:54,670
Both these are solid. 
I think Puma's getting really 

1064
00:54:54,670 --> 00:54:56,152
aggressive. 
There doing some interesting 

1065
00:54:56,152 --> 00:54:59,723
things, but the Wave Rider 30 is
such a classic workhorse that 

1066
00:54:59,723 --> 00:55:02,099
does so much that that's takes 
my win. 

1067
00:55:02,100 --> 00:55:05,925
Cool. 
Um, yeah, kind of similar to 

1068
00:55:05,925 --> 00:55:08,499
Matt before. 
My vote does not matter here, 

1069
00:55:08,499 --> 00:55:11,459
but I actually would go with the
Puma Velocity Nitro. 

1070
00:55:11,460 --> 00:55:15,179
I, I've talked about this a 
little bit before. 

1071
00:55:15,180 --> 00:55:19,898
I just have not been able to get
along with the Waverider 30 as 

1072
00:55:19,898 --> 00:55:24,279
much as my heart wants to 
because I have a soft spot for 

1073
00:55:24,279 --> 00:55:27,649
the rider, but the new 
construction of the lower drop 

1074
00:55:27,649 --> 00:55:31,019
with the softer foam and just 
where the rocker sits. 

1075
00:55:31,020 --> 00:55:34,725
David hit it on the head when we
talked about this before, but 

1076
00:55:34,725 --> 00:55:37,860
it's slightly later stage, and 
I've had a harder time with 

1077
00:55:37,860 --> 00:55:40,139
later stage rockers with pretty 
much any model. 

1078
00:55:40,140 --> 00:55:43,175
And so I'm, I feel so flat in 
this shoe when you all talk 

1079
00:55:43,175 --> 00:55:45,573
about it being versatile. 
It feels really flat for me and 

1080
00:55:45,573 --> 00:55:48,892
heavy and I can't get it going. 
And then I just don't feel like 

1081
00:55:48,892 --> 00:55:50,939
I can get into any sort of 
rhythm. 

1082
00:55:50,940 --> 00:55:55,275
It just feels sloggy. 
So, I personally don't fit with 

1083
00:55:55,275 --> 00:55:58,509
this shoe. 
Velocity nitro feels like a 

1084
00:55:58,509 --> 00:56:01,739
running shoe. 
Just, just, it can just run. 

1085
00:56:01,740 --> 00:56:06,060
And I, I, I think it's great. 
It doesn't have anything 

1086
00:56:06,060 --> 00:56:07,674
special. 
I don't think like we also 

1087
00:56:07,674 --> 00:56:09,959
debated is the pure something 
that could fit in here. 

1088
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:15,779
It's kind of similar, like the 
Adizero, um, SL, Evo SL. 

1089
00:56:15,780 --> 00:56:18,599
But I picked the velocity nitro 
for this one. 

1090
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:23,018
Justin FYI, the Velocity Nitro 
has a very, very adamant 

1091
00:56:23,018 --> 00:56:24,608
following. 
So we are probably going to get 

1092
00:56:24,608 --> 00:56:25,919
ripped apart of the comments for
that one. 

1093
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:28,439
That's fine. 
Root me and part fan. 

1094
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:29,939
Let's go. 
All right, next. 

1095
00:56:29,940 --> 00:56:33,445
All right. 
Our final match of the 1st round

1096
00:56:33,445 --> 00:56:37,335
are 8 and 9 seeds. 
The 8 seed is the On Cloud 

1097
00:56:37,335 --> 00:56:42,462
Surfer. 
And the 9 is the Salomon 

1098
00:56:42,462 --> 00:56:46,019
Aeroglide. 
So Matt, you go 1st on this one.

1099
00:56:46,020 --> 00:56:49,697
Yep. 
The Aeroglide 3 last year was a 

1100
00:56:49,697 --> 00:56:53,778
major upset, among other things 
where I real, the midsole foam 

1101
00:56:53,778 --> 00:56:58,410
is so much better. 
The, the only upset, do you mean

1102
00:56:58,410 --> 00:56:59,639
upgrade? 
upgrade. 

1103
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:02,648
Yeah, it upset a lot of other 
shoes. upset a lot of other 

1104
00:57:02,648 --> 00:57:04,079
shoes. 
I was following him. 

1105
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:05,718
Sorry. 
I'm glad, David, I'm glad you 

1106
00:57:05,718 --> 00:57:07,739
did, but I also understand why 
that made no sense. 

1107
00:57:07,740 --> 00:57:12,839
Version four, they did a lot 
more, I think, outsole flare. 

1108
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,635
It just has not been working for
me, but the essence is, I'm 

1109
00:57:15,635 --> 00:57:18,390
gonna keep, sorry, I keep using 
that word, is still there. love 

1110
00:57:18,390 --> 00:57:19,079
it. 
Yeah. 

1111
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:22,956
The on cloud server, the aura. 
Well, that's a, that's, 

1112
00:57:22,956 --> 00:57:24,899
that's... 
I'm just messing with you. 

1113
00:57:24,900 --> 00:57:28,799
Keep going, sorry. 
I did have that on hand. 

1114
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:32,999
So the On Cloud Surfer 2. 
The upper, I love this thing. 

1115
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:37,139
The midsole, I think is a little
bit old. 

1116
00:57:37,140 --> 00:57:39,507
It's not as stable, for 
whatever, is like really 

1117
00:57:39,507 --> 00:57:42,179
narrowed quite a bit. 
I love on. 

1118
00:57:42,180 --> 00:57:44,579
This is not one of my favorite 
on shoes. 

1119
00:57:44,580 --> 00:57:48,814
This On Cloud Surfer Max, just 
not doing it for me for whatever

1120
00:57:48,814 --> 00:57:53,028
reason. 
So I am going to have to go with

1121
00:57:53,028 --> 00:57:55,619
the bouncier and surprisingly 
good Salomon. 

1122
00:57:55,620 --> 00:58:00,006
Yeah, cool. 
For me, I've talked about this 

1123
00:58:00,006 --> 00:58:03,416
as well on previous episodes, 
but with the Aeroglide series, 

1124
00:58:03,416 --> 00:58:07,167
there has been something about 
where the flaring sits, what the

1125
00:58:07,167 --> 00:58:11,259
outsole tackiness is where I 
have just rolled my ankle, a ton

1126
00:58:11,259 --> 00:58:13,431
in it. 
So it's a shoe that just does 

1127
00:58:13,431 --> 00:58:15,119
not work for me. 
Right as well. 

1128
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:18,187
Yeah, yeah, both, both. 
No, because I remember the 

1129
00:58:18,187 --> 00:58:20,364
Arrowblaze, you said that. 
Yeah, Arrowblaze and Aeroglide 

1130
00:58:20,364 --> 00:58:24,927
have been the same story where I
just, I'm just walking and I 

1131
00:58:24,927 --> 00:58:29,489
just hit it and I, it doesn't 
have enough to keep me from 

1132
00:58:29,489 --> 00:58:32,304
rolling my ankle. 
So that makes it really hard for

1133
00:58:32,304 --> 00:58:35,327
me to make a personal pick 
towards the shoe, but I agree 

1134
00:58:35,327 --> 00:58:38,088
that their foam advancement in 
the last 2 years has been 

1135
00:58:38,088 --> 00:58:40,019
incredible. 
I do like the geometry. 

1136
00:58:40,020 --> 00:58:43,170
I think they have a lot set up 
really well and the fit is solid

1137
00:58:43,170 --> 00:58:45,059
and it's a lightweight upper and
I like that. 

1138
00:58:45,060 --> 00:58:50,475
I really like the 1st version of
the Cloud Surfer. way more than 

1139
00:58:50,475 --> 00:58:56,027
the newer one, but I still 
appreciate kind of the smooth 

1140
00:58:56,027 --> 00:58:59,843
transitions for me. 
I think it's pretty benign of a 

1141
00:58:59,843 --> 00:59:03,462
shoe where you are going to 
operate off of that rocker 

1142
00:59:03,462 --> 00:59:07,081
platform a little bit. 
And it's just kind of smooth and

1143
00:59:07,081 --> 00:59:09,360
lumbers along. 
It's not going to be anything 

1144
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:12,361
that breaks any records. 
I don't know why they went back 

1145
00:59:12,361 --> 00:59:14,279
quite firm in comparison to 
version one. 

1146
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:18,331
I would like to see some of that
softness come back, but I'm 

1147
00:59:18,331 --> 00:59:20,819
going with the Cloud Surfer for 
my vote. 

1148
00:59:20,820 --> 00:59:24,702
Yeah, I agree. 
I feel like the On Cloud Surfer 

1149
00:59:24,702 --> 00:59:28,374
Next was probably the shoe that 
I preferred of the Cloud Surfer 

1150
00:59:28,374 --> 00:59:32,039
series there, but I could see 
what they did with the Cloud 

1151
00:59:32,039 --> 00:59:34,784
Surfer, especially kind of 
making that now their flagshippy

1152
00:59:34,784 --> 00:59:38,444
line where they're going to go 
like, okay, you want snappy and 

1153
00:59:38,444 --> 00:59:40,440
firmer down here? 
You want a little bit more 

1154
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:42,580
plush. 
I mean, on plush, you know, like

1155
00:59:42,580 --> 00:59:44,819
go in this direction for the 
Surfer Max. 

1156
00:59:44,820 --> 00:59:48,528
Uh, but yeah, I think the one 
thing with the cloud surfer 

1157
00:59:48,528 --> 00:59:51,618
that's interesting is there some
flexibility up front on the 

1158
00:59:51,618 --> 00:59:54,399
rocker, which is interesting 
because most rocker shoes that 

1159
00:59:54,399 --> 00:59:58,460
are rocker that much don't have 
flexibility like that. in the 

1160
00:59:58,460 --> 01:00:01,504
forefoot. 
But I'm similar to you with the 

1161
01:00:01,504 --> 01:00:05,277
Salomon, where I just have not 
gotten along with whatever that 

1162
01:00:05,277 --> 01:00:09,050
lateral sole flare is in the 
forefoot, or however the upper 

1163
01:00:09,050 --> 01:00:11,599
integrates with it. 
I get this like kind of lateral 

1164
01:00:11,599 --> 01:00:15,287
foot pain in the Aeroglide and I
got it in the 3 and I got it in 

1165
01:00:15,287 --> 01:00:17,820
the 4. 
And it's just one of those weird

1166
01:00:17,820 --> 01:00:20,219
things where I want to like the 
shoe. 

1167
01:00:20,220 --> 01:00:22,139
I do. 
It's a lightweight shoe. 

1168
01:00:22,140 --> 01:00:24,984
The beaded foam feels great, you
know, and I'm happy that it 

1169
01:00:24,984 --> 01:00:28,055
works for a lot of other people,
but it just simply just doesn't 

1170
01:00:28,055 --> 01:00:30,179
line up with my mechanics and 
how I strike. 

1171
01:00:30,180 --> 01:00:33,599
Um, and maybe it's just a me 
problem. 

1172
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:37,097
I honestly don't know, but it's 
one of those things where I can 

1173
01:00:37,097 --> 01:00:39,779
really appreciate it, but it's 
just not there for me. 

1174
01:00:39,780 --> 01:00:43,139
Where I feel like if I'm forced 
to choose between the two. 

1175
01:00:43,140 --> 01:00:45,119
The Cloud Surfer is a little bit
of a safer bet. 

1176
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:46,139
You kind of know what you're 
getting. 

1177
01:00:46,140 --> 01:00:48,707
It's just a neutral shoe. 
It's kind of like the peg for 

1178
01:00:48,707 --> 01:00:50,718
on, right? 
Like, it's not the most lively 

1179
01:00:50,718 --> 01:00:53,721
foam, but it's a pretty, like, I
don't know, predictable platform

1180
01:00:53,721 --> 01:00:57,270
that you're going to be running 
on, and they make it uppers as 

1181
01:00:57,270 --> 01:01:00,539
well, and you can trust that 
it's a pretty well built shoe. 

1182
01:01:00,540 --> 01:01:04,308
So I'm going to have to go with 
the On Cloud Surfer 2 on this 

1183
01:01:04,308 --> 01:01:05,819
one. 
Okay. 

1184
01:01:05,820 --> 01:01:08,339
Well, that wraps up our 1st 
round. 

1185
01:01:08,340 --> 01:01:10,619
We're now jumping hour to do one
now. 

1186
01:01:10,620 --> 01:01:12,240
I know. 
We're gonna have to... 

1187
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:14,339
The next rounds will be much 
quicker. 

1188
01:01:14,340 --> 01:01:16,139
We don't need to give rundowns 
to the shoes. 

1189
01:01:16,140 --> 01:01:19,452
What we'll do now is we'll put 
the next, as they're moving 

1190
01:01:19,452 --> 01:01:22,212
through the bracket, we'll put 
the next matchups together and 

1191
01:01:22,212 --> 01:01:26,076
then we'll say which one we pick
and a very quick why and we'll 

1192
01:01:26,076 --> 01:01:29,499
move our way through. 
So next we have the Novablast, 

1193
01:01:29,499 --> 01:01:33,359
the one seed against the 8 seed,
the cloud surfer. 

1194
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:37,457
I go 1st on this one. 
I'm picking the Novablast to 

1195
01:01:37,457 --> 01:01:41,537
move beyond. 
I think it's more fun to run in,

1196
01:01:41,537 --> 01:01:43,799
better transitions, hits that 
softness point. 

1197
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:51,419
And so I'm picking Novablast. 
Uh, the next is, uh, I forget. 

1198
01:01:51,420 --> 01:01:55,259
I went first, the 1st time, so. 
Yeah, it'll be unique. 

1199
01:01:55,260 --> 01:01:57,899
It's me. 
I'm going to go Novablast. 

1200
01:01:57,900 --> 01:02:00,059
I think I like the spring in the
forefoot. 

1201
01:02:00,060 --> 01:02:02,678
I think the transitions could 
probably be a little bit 

1202
01:02:02,678 --> 01:02:04,212
smoother. 
For some reason, the 5 was 

1203
01:02:04,212 --> 01:02:07,588
smoother than the 6 for me, but 
I think a lot of the same DNA is

1204
01:02:07,588 --> 01:02:11,426
there. 
The Turbo² is, I like it in the 

1205
01:02:11,426 --> 01:02:12,965
forefoot. 
I just wish the rear foot and 

1206
01:02:12,965 --> 01:02:16,086
midfoot was a little smoother. 
So I'm going to go with the Nova

1207
01:02:16,086 --> 01:02:17,825
blasts. 
I think the flexibility issues 

1208
01:02:17,825 --> 01:02:21,419
in the Cloud Surfer for me. 
Take it out of this equation. 

1209
01:02:21,420 --> 01:02:26,039
Matt. 
Okay, great. 

1210
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:28,379
So we got the Novablast moving 
forward. 

1211
01:02:28,380 --> 01:02:32,813
Now we have the 2 seed, the 
Clifton against the 7 seed, the 

1212
01:02:32,813 --> 01:02:35,879
wave rider, and David, you get 
to pick first. 

1213
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:38,699
I also just want to place the 
emphasis on this. 

1214
01:02:38,700 --> 01:02:41,099
This is now the quarterfinal of 
this Trainer Cup. 

1215
01:02:41,100 --> 01:02:43,619
This is the quarterfile. 
This is the quarterfinal. 

1216
01:02:43,620 --> 01:02:46,870
So everything we've been 
watching in terms of the World 

1217
01:02:46,870 --> 01:02:50,435
Cup this week with the showdown 
between England and Norway, the 

1218
01:02:50,435 --> 01:02:53,579
drama with all of those games. 
Like, this is that round. 

1219
01:02:53,580 --> 01:02:55,739
So this should start to get 
serious. 

1220
01:02:55,740 --> 01:02:59,974
Because if you win this, you go 
to a semifinal to the final 

1221
01:02:59,974 --> 01:03:02,219
four. 
So what do we got again? 

1222
01:03:02,220 --> 01:03:06,239
Sorry, I was focused on... 
Clifton and Waverider. 

1223
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:08,519
Oh, that's tough. 
Gosh, darn it. 

1224
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:10,499
That matches everything I just 
said. 

1225
01:03:10,500 --> 01:03:14,519
Um, Oh, that's tough. 
Okay. 

1226
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:17,624
Clifton 11's great. 
I think it's the best Clifton 

1227
01:03:17,624 --> 01:03:19,908
they've had in a while. 
I'm going to have to go with the

1228
01:03:19,908 --> 01:03:22,320
Waverider, though. 
I think the versatility, the 

1229
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:24,840
weight, the transitions, 
versatility, outsole durability,

1230
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:27,080
and traction. 
If I was a high school runner 

1231
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:29,680
right now, and I walked into a 
running shoe store and I was 

1232
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:32,680
like, I need, I just need a shoe
to get me through the season and

1233
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:34,079
they're both around the same 
price point. 

1234
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:35,279
I'm going to go with the 
Waverider. 

1235
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:38,579
I say high schooler, but I mean,
like even as an adult, right? 

1236
01:03:38,580 --> 01:03:41,415
Like if I'm just like running my
daily miles, I think I am going 

1237
01:03:41,415 --> 01:03:44,243
to go with the Waverider if I 
want to, because I feel like I 

1238
01:03:44,243 --> 01:03:46,465
could actually race in the 
Waverider if I really needed to,

1239
01:03:46,465 --> 01:03:47,879
where like there's no way on 
Earth. 

1240
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:51,149
I would do that in the Clifton. 
And I feel like the daily 

1241
01:03:51,149 --> 01:03:54,335
training experiences aren't so 
different that I'm like, okay, 

1242
01:03:54,335 --> 01:03:57,352
I, it's clipped and hands down. 
Like, I'm not going to go that 

1243
01:03:57,352 --> 01:03:58,679
way. 
But I love the Clifton. 

1244
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:00,550
I think it's a great shoe, but 
we're in the quarterfinals, 

1245
01:04:00,550 --> 01:04:01,499
baby. 
It going to get tough. 

1246
01:04:01,500 --> 01:04:04,285
Now what's your pick? 
I'm going to go with the 

1247
01:04:04,285 --> 01:04:05,734
Clifton. 
It's just, to me, is more 

1248
01:04:05,734 --> 01:04:08,160
comfortable. 
I mean, it's given by the fact 

1249
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:11,747
that I have more miles on it. 
It's more stable, which is 

1250
01:04:11,747 --> 01:04:15,154
something I'm looking for. 
It's not that the writer isn't 

1251
01:04:15,154 --> 01:04:17,112
stable. 
It's not in that full stable 

1252
01:04:17,112 --> 01:04:19,205
neutral category. 
And yeah, the Clifton would be 

1253
01:04:19,205 --> 01:04:22,076
just something a little bit 
better and I would have a 

1254
01:04:22,076 --> 01:04:24,659
separate racing shoe. 
So that's me. 

1255
01:04:24,660 --> 01:04:28,227
Yeah, and I think we know where 
this one's going just because I 

1256
01:04:28,227 --> 01:04:30,419
didn't pick the Waverider in the
1st round. 

1257
01:04:30,420 --> 01:04:33,863
So I'm going with the Clifton 
that moves the Clifton forward 

1258
01:04:33,863 --> 01:04:37,320
to the semifinal. 
I think that the Clifton's great

1259
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:40,259
for for most easy mileage 
standing, walking. 

1260
01:04:40,260 --> 01:04:43,963
It can do, it's versatile from 
the walking and standing up to 

1261
01:04:43,963 --> 01:04:46,170
running phase. 
It's not versatile forward from 

1262
01:04:46,170 --> 01:04:51,299
easy running to fast running. 
All right, our next is 2 pairs 

1263
01:04:51,299 --> 01:04:57,864
of, and a pair of upsets here, 
because it's the 14 seed, the 

1264
01:04:57,864 --> 01:05:02,914
ultra experience flow, and the 
11 seed, the Skechers Arrow 

1265
01:05:02,914 --> 01:05:06,150
Burst. 
And Matt, you get to start this 

1266
01:05:06,150 --> 01:05:07,319
one. 
Yeah. 

1267
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:13,079
Uh, I'm going to have to go with
the Altra Experience Flow. 

1268
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:15,523
Again, compared, the bursts just
didn't really, I'm not holding 

1269
01:05:15,523 --> 01:05:18,341
up the wrong shoe. 
Um, the burst just didn't really

1270
01:05:18,341 --> 01:05:22,003
work for me. 
Just didn't transition well, not

1271
01:05:22,003 --> 01:05:24,560
as stable. 
The experience flow, fit wise, 

1272
01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:27,479
transition wise, just works a 
lot better for me personally. 

1273
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:28,799
So I'm going to have to go with 
Ultra. 

1274
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:31,379
Right? 
David. 

1275
01:05:31,380 --> 01:05:34,379
I'm going to have to go with the
Altra Experience Flow. 

1276
01:05:34,380 --> 01:05:37,575
Like I said, I feel like it's 
basically like the Clifton just 

1277
01:05:37,575 --> 01:05:40,346
slightly off of it. 
Like I said, I mean, even though

1278
01:05:40,346 --> 01:05:43,019
I had the Clifton losing, I 
really, really like that shoe. 

1279
01:05:43,020 --> 01:05:46,019
So, um, I just really like the 
Waverider. 

1280
01:05:46,020 --> 01:05:50,388
And I feel like I, although this
one doesn't feel quite as good 

1281
01:05:50,388 --> 01:05:54,084
as the Clifton, to me, the ultra
experience flow, it's almost 

1282
01:05:54,084 --> 01:05:56,961
there. 
And so that shoe, I think, wins 

1283
01:05:56,961 --> 01:06:01,309
over the sketcher's arrow burst,
even though it kind of has some 

1284
01:06:01,309 --> 01:06:04,518
fun factor with the sketchers. 
I feel like the final product, 

1285
01:06:04,518 --> 01:06:07,079
it feels a little bit more 
touched up in the ultra. 

1286
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:09,852
Yeah, I agree. 
I was going to pick the 

1287
01:06:09,852 --> 01:06:12,540
Experience Flow as well. 
I've really appreciated what you

1288
01:06:12,540 --> 01:06:16,642
can all do in that shoe. 
I think you can do easy longer 

1289
01:06:16,642 --> 01:06:18,179
stuff. 
You could pick up the pace. 

1290
01:06:18,180 --> 01:06:19,499
It's light enough to do a little
bit more. 

1291
01:06:19,500 --> 01:06:21,959
I love the fit. 
So Daily Trainer. 

1292
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:25,032
It checks a lot of those 
baseline boxes and the foam is 

1293
01:06:25,032 --> 01:06:28,560
just soft enough. 
All right, our last quarterfinal

1294
01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:35,744
is another pair of upsets. 
The 13 seed, the Topo Phantom 4 

1295
01:06:35,744 --> 01:06:40,799
against the 12 seed, the Adidas 
supernova rise. 

1296
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:44,159
Uh, sorry. 
Matt, you joined? 

1297
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:45,359
It's me. 
Yes. 

1298
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:48,137
Sorry. 
I'm getting lost in the sauce 

1299
01:06:48,137 --> 01:06:51,710
here. 
So my pick is going to be the 

1300
01:06:51,710 --> 01:06:56,170
Topo Phantom 4, I I think that 
the balance of the softness of 

1301
01:06:56,170 --> 01:06:58,439
the foam, a little bit of 
responsiveness. 

1302
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:02,061
It's a really nice fit because 
Topo always nails that. 

1303
01:07:02,061 --> 01:07:06,405
And I think it's mainly that fit
comparison between these 2 shoes

1304
01:07:06,405 --> 01:07:08,939
where Topo, Topo takes it for 
me. 

1305
01:07:08,940 --> 01:07:14,339
Um, so that's that's my pick. 
All right, David. 

1306
01:07:14,340 --> 01:07:17,399
Okay, I'm going to go with the 
Phantom four. 

1307
01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:20,639
I feel like Fitz dialed in 
geometry styled in. 

1308
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:23,771
Again, it's one of those 
examples or maybe the foam isn't

1309
01:07:23,771 --> 01:07:26,611
the craziest innovative thing, 
but it's just a really well 

1310
01:07:26,611 --> 01:07:28,811
constructed shoe. 
It's kind of like what I was 

1311
01:07:28,811 --> 01:07:31,607
saying with the Diadora earlier,
but the foam in the Phantom is 

1312
01:07:31,607 --> 01:07:32,999
just nicer than the Diadora 
foam. 

1313
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:36,264
And I feel like it's making a 
run on this tournament because 

1314
01:07:36,264 --> 01:07:39,528
of that, you know, and it's it's
just nice enough with everything

1315
01:07:39,528 --> 01:07:42,899
else doing a really good job. 
It's making a run. 

1316
01:07:42,900 --> 01:07:45,479
That thing's making a semifinal.
Yeah sure is. 

1317
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:47,347
Matt, was your pick here on 
this? 

1318
01:07:47,347 --> 01:07:50,085
Same thing. 
Fit ride is just a little bit 

1319
01:07:50,085 --> 01:07:51,659
better optimized across the 
board. 

1320
01:07:51,660 --> 01:07:55,044
Great. 
We are in the semifinal, and 

1321
01:07:55,044 --> 01:07:59,904
we've got the one in the 2 seed 
in there, and then we have the 

1322
01:07:59,904 --> 01:08:03,528
13 and 14 seed. 
So our 1st and they're on 

1323
01:08:03,528 --> 01:08:06,239
opposite sides, so it's kind of 
fun. 

1324
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:10,890
So we've got our 1st semifinal: 
Novablast against the Topo 

1325
01:08:10,890 --> 01:08:14,720
Phantom 4. 
So ASICS Novablast, Topo Phantom

1326
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:16,756
4. 
David, you get to be the first 

1327
01:08:16,756 --> 01:08:19,979
one to speak on this one. 
That's a tough one. 

1328
01:08:19,979 --> 01:08:21,839
I mean, obviously we're in the 
semifinal. 

1329
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:25,372
There's only 4 shoes left. 
Um, I think I'm going to have to

1330
01:08:25,372 --> 01:08:28,719
go with the Novo blast still. 
I think there's just enough life

1331
01:08:28,719 --> 01:08:31,679
in that shoe where I've had 
enough history in it. 

1332
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:35,732
I know what to expect, even if I
don't love some of the changes 

1333
01:08:35,732 --> 01:08:39,059
that were made. 
Um, I still like it enough. 

1334
01:08:39,060 --> 01:08:43,220
I still like it enough to use as
a daily trainer, turn it up if I

1335
01:08:43,220 --> 01:08:45,779
need to. 
I can totally see why someone 

1336
01:08:45,779 --> 01:08:47,819
would take the Phantom, though, 
personally. 

1337
01:08:47,819 --> 01:08:50,578
It's just, the Phantom's the 
example of everything done 

1338
01:08:50,578 --> 01:08:53,639
really well without being like a
lousa in the phone. 

1339
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:56,808
Right? 
Like, and so it's like a 

1340
01:08:56,808 --> 01:08:58,198
craftsmanship versus innovation 
almost. 

1341
01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:01,439
Oh, yeah. 
That's good. agree with that. 

1342
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:05,115
Yeah, that's interesting. 
So I think the love of the craft

1343
01:09:05,115 --> 01:09:08,591
takes you really far, obviously,
like it did in this tournament 

1344
01:09:08,591 --> 01:09:11,435
for me, but I think the 
innovation slightly winning 

1345
01:09:11,435 --> 01:09:14,279
because the craftsmanship's 
still pretty good in the nova. 

1346
01:09:14,279 --> 01:09:18,763
Alright, Matt, you're next. 
The heel transition stinks in 

1347
01:09:18,763 --> 01:09:20,879
the Novablast. 
I going to go with the Phantom. 

1348
01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:24,192
I knew that was gonna happen. 
I don't hate it. 

1349
01:09:24,192 --> 01:09:27,835
I don't have to know that out in
my 1st round, if I get it? 

1350
01:09:27,835 --> 01:09:29,279
Frustrates me. 
I'm like, a six. 

1351
01:09:29,279 --> 01:09:33,961
Why did you go back to the, and 
I'm so terrified because the GT 

1352
01:09:33,961 --> 01:09:36,299
2000, the new one looks like 
this. 

1353
01:09:36,300 --> 01:09:39,939
And I'm like, gosh, don't make 
me hate this shoe 2 years in a 

1354
01:09:39,939 --> 01:09:41,759
row. 
Like, come on. 

1355
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:45,786
We haven't gotten it yet. 
That's not gonna help them see 

1356
01:09:45,786 --> 01:09:48,935
the 2000 to us, but... 
Well, I was hoping they didn't 

1357
01:09:48,935 --> 01:09:51,059
have to be the decider on this 
one. 

1358
01:09:51,060 --> 01:09:55,155
This one's tough for me, but if 
I take away a lot of the stuff, 

1359
01:09:55,155 --> 01:09:58,704
I think that if I'd simply look 
at like which shoe have I 

1360
01:09:58,704 --> 01:10:01,703
reached back for more often, 
it's the Novablast, I can do 

1361
01:10:01,703 --> 01:10:05,239
more in the shoe, and I've 
gotten a ton of miles in the 

1362
01:10:05,239 --> 01:10:09,960
Novablast 5 and now 6. 
And I think the Phantom, again, 

1363
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:13,319
for me, has almost everything 
right. 

1364
01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:16,674
I think some of the sidewalls, I
would love to just refine those 

1365
01:10:16,674 --> 01:10:20,028
a little bit and it's going to 
be, it's going to be, maybe 

1366
01:10:20,028 --> 01:10:22,608
beating the Novablast, but I 
think that the versatility of 

1367
01:10:22,608 --> 01:10:25,439
the Novablast is another piece 
that takes it over the Phantom. 

1368
01:10:25,440 --> 01:10:27,959
So that moves our Novablast into
our final. 

1369
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:29,939
Sorry, Matt. 
Of course it does. 

1370
01:10:29,940 --> 01:10:32,999
But Matt, you get to be the 1st 
pick on this next one. 

1371
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:36,360
Okay. 
We have the 2 seed, the Clifton 

1372
01:10:36,360 --> 01:10:40,559
from Hoka against the 14 seed, 
the Altra Experience Flow. 

1373
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:44,650
The Clifton wins easily. 
I mean, so just smoother 

1374
01:10:44,650 --> 01:10:47,028
transition. 
I do a little better with the 8 

1375
01:10:47,028 --> 01:10:49,788
millimeter drop. 
The fit isn't as good as Ultra, 

1376
01:10:49,788 --> 01:10:53,672
but the, the foot, the rear foot
frame in this, the structure 

1377
01:10:53,672 --> 01:10:56,579
does a lot better for me in the 
Clifton. 

1378
01:10:56,580 --> 01:11:00,659
So that's a win. 
So I'm next. 

1379
01:11:00,660 --> 01:11:03,359
I'm actually going with the 
ultra experience flow. 

1380
01:11:03,360 --> 01:11:07,154
I think that for me, the Clifton
foam when they went from the 9 

1381
01:11:07,154 --> 01:11:10,677
to the 10th, that 10 and 11, 
that airiness is nice, but it 

1382
01:11:10,677 --> 01:11:14,459
takes a lot of life away from it
and a lot of durability away. 

1383
01:11:14,460 --> 01:11:18,660
And I feel like the P35 midsole 
gives me everything that the 

1384
01:11:18,660 --> 01:11:22,199
Clifton would give me and more. 
Fit is better. 

1385
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:25,919
Basically across the board, I 
like the experience flow more. 

1386
01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:29,459
So I'm going with experience 
flow over the Clifton. 

1387
01:11:29,460 --> 01:11:32,999
And I'm the tiebreaker. 
You sure are. 

1388
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:34,559
I think we know where my vote 
is. 

1389
01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:36,848
It's almost like this got 
manifested because I've 

1390
01:11:36,848 --> 01:11:39,419
literally said it like 3 or 4 
times now. 

1391
01:11:39,420 --> 01:11:41,430
You have. 
When you said it before I was 

1392
01:11:41,430 --> 01:11:42,479
like, well, we know where this 
is. 

1393
01:11:42,480 --> 01:11:46,080
It's not quite the blank. 
It's like the ultra is really 

1394
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:47,999
good. 
It's just not quite the Clifton.

1395
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:52,537
I feel like they both kind of 
could, like, they both like feel

1396
01:11:52,537 --> 01:11:56,723
the same void where they're kind
of like this rocker shoe where 

1397
01:11:56,723 --> 01:12:00,551
you can just get your daily 
miles and they're both decently 

1398
01:12:00,551 --> 01:12:03,683
lightweight for what they are 
from a cushioning standpoint, 

1399
01:12:03,683 --> 01:12:06,119
but neither are like crazy 
responsive, right? 

1400
01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:08,399
Like it's just meant to be an 
easy day shoe. 

1401
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:11,349
I think some of the updates to 
the upper in the Clifton 11 

1402
01:12:11,349 --> 01:12:14,118
really give it the nod. 
I think if it was Clifton 10 

1403
01:12:14,118 --> 01:12:16,260
versus the ultra. 
I probably would go with the 

1404
01:12:16,260 --> 01:12:18,827
ultra. 
Uh, but the Clifton 11, I think,

1405
01:12:18,827 --> 01:12:22,605
I actually really like the fit. 
I don't feel like the ultra fits

1406
01:12:22,605 --> 01:12:24,785
better. 
I think the slightly more 

1407
01:12:24,785 --> 01:12:29,015
spacious Clifton really aligns 
with my foot better and it locks

1408
01:12:29,015 --> 01:12:31,319
down without sacrificing, you 
know, much. 

1409
01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:33,419
I don't feel like my foot 
sliding around or anything. 

1410
01:12:33,420 --> 01:12:36,220
It actually just feels more 
comfortable and more plush, but 

1411
01:12:36,220 --> 01:12:38,426
still breathable. 
If anything, more breathable 

1412
01:12:38,426 --> 01:12:41,459
than the 10. 
So I'm a big fan of the 11. 

1413
01:12:41,460 --> 01:12:43,559
The Clifton 11 is going to the 
final. 

1414
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:48,639
And since we are mirroring the 
World Cup, we have to have a 3rd

1415
01:12:48,639 --> 01:12:52,259
place match, of course, so this 
is the 14-seed showdown. 

1416
01:12:52,260 --> 01:12:54,419
Yeah, Matt, so there's always a 
3rd place match. 

1417
01:12:54,420 --> 01:12:58,259
Uh, so the 14 seed against the 
13 seed. 

1418
01:12:58,260 --> 01:13:01,835
So the Experience Flow from 
Altra or the Phantom 4 from 

1419
01:13:01,835 --> 01:13:03,839
Topo. 
I feel like this is a great. 

1420
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:06,899
This is like a great brand 
matchup to just throw in there. 

1421
01:13:06,900 --> 01:13:09,728
I actually kind of like this. 
It forces us to choose and then 

1422
01:13:09,728 --> 01:13:11,519
you kind of see where we 
collectively are. 

1423
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:12,899
Maybe we'll do more of these in 
the future. 

1424
01:13:12,900 --> 01:13:14,459
I don't know. 
Yeah, kind of cool. 

1425
01:13:14,460 --> 01:13:20,340
And, uh, I think I'm 1st on this
one if I'm doing my order 

1426
01:13:20,340 --> 01:13:22,560
correctly. 
I'm guessing you could hear that

1427
01:13:22,560 --> 01:13:25,260
I don't really have many 
complaints about the Experience 

1428
01:13:25,260 --> 01:13:27,208
Flow. 
I would have picked it to go to 

1429
01:13:27,208 --> 01:13:28,439
the final. 
That's getting my pick. 

1430
01:13:28,440 --> 01:13:32,070
I think that the fit and the 
geometries are just slightly 

1431
01:13:32,070 --> 01:13:33,600
better. 
Transitions are a little bit 

1432
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:36,402
better. 
Foam is slightly firmer in the 

1433
01:13:36,402 --> 01:13:41,093
Experience Flow versus the 
Phantom, and I like the level of

1434
01:13:41,093 --> 01:13:43,736
firmness. 
So that's what I'm going at 

1435
01:13:43,736 --> 01:13:46,319
going with, but they're very 
similar platforms. 

1436
01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:49,605
David, you're next. 
Like I said, craftsmanship takes

1437
01:13:49,605 --> 01:13:53,423
you far, but it might not win 
the whole thing, but it will get

1438
01:13:53,423 --> 01:13:56,046
you a medal. 
I'm going to go with the Phantom

1439
01:13:56,046 --> 01:13:58,566
4 from Topo. 
I think they are a masterclass 

1440
01:13:58,566 --> 01:14:02,058
and giving you good uppers, good
geometry and just giving you a 

1441
01:14:02,058 --> 01:14:03,934
comfortable shoe. 
Might not be the most exciting 

1442
01:14:03,934 --> 01:14:06,299
thing out there, but it gets its
job done really well. 

1443
01:14:06,300 --> 01:14:10,493
And if I had to choose a shua on
the shelf and I was going for a 

1444
01:14:10,493 --> 01:14:13,199
run tomorrow, I would go with 
the Phantom over the Altra. 

1445
01:14:13,200 --> 01:14:15,359
They do sometimes do exciting 
things. 

1446
01:14:15,360 --> 01:14:18,450
They do. 
I'm just saying like the 

1447
01:14:18,450 --> 01:14:21,087
training lines traditionally, 
you know, I mean, like the 

1448
01:14:21,087 --> 01:14:23,625
Cyclone's an exciting shoe. 
It has been for the last 3 

1449
01:14:23,625 --> 01:14:26,160
generations. 
So I'm just saying more the 

1450
01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:29,279
Phantom, Magnify — like those 
types of shoes. 

1451
01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:32,639
Matt, you're the decider who 
gets the bronze here. 

1452
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:34,259
Phantom. 
Yep. 

1453
01:14:34,260 --> 01:14:36,996
Solid choice. 
Upper is a little bit more 

1454
01:14:36,996 --> 01:14:39,479
dialed in for me, fit 
transition, or obviously fit. 

1455
01:14:39,480 --> 01:14:41,712
I just said that. 
The transition is just a little 

1456
01:14:41,712 --> 01:14:44,814
bit smoother with the 5 
millimeter drop and just the way

1457
01:14:44,814 --> 01:14:48,198
the sidewalls actually work very
well for me that just gives a 

1458
01:14:48,198 --> 01:14:51,577
little bit more structure and a 
little higher arch that Topo is 

1459
01:14:51,577 --> 01:14:53,339
known for. 
So Topo takes the win. 

1460
01:14:53,340 --> 01:14:57,400
Awesome. 
All right, now we are on to our 

1461
01:14:57,400 --> 01:14:59,665
final. 
This is the ASICS Novablast, 

1462
01:14:59,665 --> 01:15:04,711
which was our one seed against 
the Hoka Clifton, which is the 2

1463
01:15:04,711 --> 01:15:07,760
seed. 
David, you get to kick us off, 

1464
01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:10,799
and then it goes myself and then
Matt. 

1465
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:13,139
No. 
Matt and then myself. 

1466
01:15:13,140 --> 01:15:14,999
Matt, you go first. 
I can't remember. 

1467
01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:20,939
David, go. 
This is a hard, hard one for me.

1468
01:15:20,940 --> 01:15:23,759
This is this is painful. 
You say that every time. 

1469
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:26,635
I know. 
But this one's really painful 

1470
01:15:26,635 --> 01:15:30,359
because there's things I really 
like about both of them, and I 

1471
01:15:30,359 --> 01:15:33,769
really like the versatility of 
the Novablast, and I really like

1472
01:15:33,769 --> 01:15:37,799
the upper and I like the just 
gentle geometry and kind of just

1473
01:15:37,799 --> 01:15:39,659
plush easy riding of the 
Clifton. 

1474
01:15:39,660 --> 01:15:41,699
I think they this is the best. 
Clifton. 

1475
01:15:41,700 --> 01:15:43,500
Like I said earlier, I think 
this is the best one they've 

1476
01:15:43,500 --> 01:15:45,915
done in a while. 
Like this is the 1st time I kind

1477
01:15:45,915 --> 01:15:48,627
of turned my head and I was 
like, oh, snap, the Clifton's 

1478
01:15:48,627 --> 01:15:50,725
back, baby. 
You know, uh, where the 

1479
01:15:50,725 --> 01:15:54,343
Novablast, I almost felt a 
little bit let down where I 

1480
01:15:54,343 --> 01:15:59,591
really liked the 5 and I just, I
wanted that 6 to be like, if it 

1481
01:15:59,591 --> 01:16:03,347
was the 5 versus Clifton 11. 
I think I'm more Novablast 5, 

1482
01:16:03,347 --> 01:16:06,614
but I think this year 
specifically, I think I am going

1483
01:16:06,614 --> 01:16:09,458
to go with the Clifton. 
I think I'm going to take the 

1484
01:16:09,458 --> 01:16:11,592
Clifton, I think the rear foot 
and midfoot transition could be 

1485
01:16:11,592 --> 01:16:13,139
a little bit smoother on the 
Nova blast. 

1486
01:16:13,140 --> 01:16:15,599
We're starting to split hairs, 
right? 

1487
01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:18,840
We're in the final. 
I think the forefoot and the 

1488
01:16:18,840 --> 01:16:21,119
versatility of the Novablast is 
great. 

1489
01:16:21,120 --> 01:16:24,487
I think there's a lot of life 
and there's a lot of positive 

1490
01:16:24,487 --> 01:16:27,870
things that come from that shoe.
It's obviously in the top 2 

1491
01:16:27,870 --> 01:16:31,215
shoes here in this flagship 
tournament, but I just wish the 

1492
01:16:31,215 --> 01:16:34,559
heel in the midfoot could just 
be a little bit smoother. 

1493
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:38,585
I do feel like I'm slapping a 
little bit where the Clifton 11,

1494
01:16:38,585 --> 01:16:40,439
the transitions feel so well 
done. 

1495
01:16:40,440 --> 01:16:43,619
The upper is way better than it 
has been in previous versions. 

1496
01:16:43,620 --> 01:16:46,716
The foam is not awful. 
Like, it's got a little bit of 

1497
01:16:46,716 --> 01:16:49,106
spring to it. 
But it's definitely meant for 

1498
01:16:49,106 --> 01:16:52,499
easy days, but it doesn't feel 
like super flat. 

1499
01:16:52,500 --> 01:16:55,350
Like, it's a nice shoe. 
It's a really nice shoe, even 

1500
01:16:55,350 --> 01:16:57,299
though I had it knocked out 
earlier in the tournament. 

1501
01:16:57,300 --> 01:17:01,140
If it was one of those shoes was
about to make a run for me, you 

1502
01:17:01,140 --> 01:17:03,299
know, and that was just, that's 
just what happened. 

1503
01:17:03,300 --> 01:17:06,828
So I'm going to go to Clifton. 
I'll go next then, because my 

1504
01:17:06,828 --> 01:17:11,007
pick is the Novablast. 
So I, as of now, I think I still

1505
01:17:11,007 --> 01:17:15,529
have more time to get more miles
on this new Clifton, um, but it 

1506
01:17:15,529 --> 01:17:19,405
hasn't taken over for me, the 
versatility that I get from the 

1507
01:17:19,405 --> 01:17:23,601
Novablast, and I found that I've
gotten a little bit more out of 

1508
01:17:23,601 --> 01:17:27,143
the Novablast forefoot as I've 
gotten more miles in it, that 

1509
01:17:27,143 --> 01:17:31,651
new little kind of insert of the
Turbo² is giving me more as I've

1510
01:17:31,651 --> 01:17:35,579
gotten more in it. 
So Novablast takes it from me. 

1511
01:17:35,580 --> 01:17:38,886
Clifton just doesn't give me 
enough versatility in 

1512
01:17:38,886 --> 01:17:41,046
comparison. 
So that's that's the kicker and 

1513
01:17:41,046 --> 01:17:43,369
I don't transition too poorly in
the nova. 

1514
01:17:43,369 --> 01:17:46,559
And I've liked that for a lot of
since version three. 

1515
01:17:46,560 --> 01:17:49,739
It's been a steadfast for me. 
Matt, you're the decider. 

1516
01:17:49,740 --> 01:17:53,532
Yeah, so I totally agree with 
David, where the fore and you, 

1517
01:17:53,532 --> 01:17:57,314
the forefoot is very nice in the
Novablast, but the heel and 

1518
01:17:57,314 --> 01:17:59,519
midfoot transition is awful, in 
my opinion. 

1519
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:02,159
I mean, it's not like people are
still going to like this shoe. 

1520
01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:05,280
They like version four. 
It's still going to be really 

1521
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:08,520
popular, but I, even though 
Decent Miles really struggle 

1522
01:18:08,520 --> 01:18:10,544
with geometry. 
It actually got hip pain, just 

1523
01:18:10,544 --> 01:18:13,582
even walking in it and had to 
get out of the shoe and it 

1524
01:18:13,582 --> 01:18:16,454
alleviated. 
So the Clifton 11 is such a 

1525
01:18:16,454 --> 01:18:19,486
strong transition, again, some 
good rear foot structure, 

1526
01:18:19,486 --> 01:18:22,139
midfoot structure that works 
really, really well. 

1527
01:18:22,140 --> 01:18:24,419
Could the durability be a little
bit, yet or better? 

1528
01:18:24,420 --> 01:18:27,839
Yes, but the fit, the upgraded 
sock liner, it's such, if I'm 

1529
01:18:27,839 --> 01:18:31,531
going to reach for one of these,
it's going to be the Clifton 

1530
01:18:31,531 --> 01:18:33,444
every time. 
Not necessarily for workouts, 

1531
01:18:33,444 --> 01:18:35,358
right? 
Neither one of these would I 

1532
01:18:35,358 --> 01:18:37,979
choose for workouts just because
I tried in a Novablast. 

1533
01:18:37,980 --> 01:18:41,409
I can't. 
It just, when I pick up the 

1534
01:18:41,409 --> 01:18:44,159
pace, it, that heel transition 
just begets so much worse. 

1535
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:47,926
And so I'm going to have to go 
with the Clifton because it has 

1536
01:18:47,926 --> 01:18:50,615
been so much more comfortable 
and based on mileage, that's 

1537
01:18:50,615 --> 01:18:53,099
what I've chosen. 
Fantastic. 

1538
01:18:53,100 --> 01:18:56,685
Well, that was pretty fun. 
So I'm excited to see what 

1539
01:18:56,685 --> 01:18:59,460
people think. 
Like, where would you have had 

1540
01:18:59,460 --> 01:19:03,059
votes changed or seating changed
that may change who wins? 

1541
01:19:03,060 --> 01:19:06,395
Because, like, some of these 
shoes, like the Novablast was 

1542
01:19:06,395 --> 01:19:09,059
only unanimous one time in this 
entire thing. 

1543
01:19:09,060 --> 01:19:11,832
So I think that there's 
opportunities for for fun 

1544
01:19:11,832 --> 01:19:14,912
conversation about these shoes, 
but hopefully what you got from 

1545
01:19:14,912 --> 01:19:18,608
this, that we put it in this 
silly format, was just a 

1546
01:19:18,608 --> 01:19:21,686
comparison between all of these 
different trainers that are out 

1547
01:19:21,686 --> 01:19:25,370
there that are the flagship 
models and what you may go to 

1548
01:19:25,370 --> 01:19:29,668
and why and maybe you found out 
why you might want to try this 

1549
01:19:29,668 --> 01:19:33,352
as your next shoe versus that 
just based on how we discussed 

1550
01:19:33,352 --> 01:19:33,723
it. 
So thank you all for joining us 

1551
01:19:33,723 --> 01:19:33,831
for this episode and we look 
forward to talking with you next

1552
01:19:33,831 --> 01:19:33,840
time.