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Visit the link in our 
description or run straight to 

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runningwarehouse.com today. 
Hello and welcome to the Doctors

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00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,720
of Running podcast, where we, a 
group of doctors of physical 

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therapy, discuss the art and the
science of the stuff that we're 

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putting on our feet. 
I'm Andrea Myers and today I've 

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got Megan Flynn with me and 
we're here to talk about post 

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marathon recovery and base 
training. 

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How are you doing, Megan? 
I'm good. 

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Thank you. 
How about you, Andrea? 

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I'm good. 
This episode was actually 

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inspired by one of my PT friends
who ran the Hartford Marathon in

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October, and she said it would 
be great if we did an episode on

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this topic. 
And I agreed. 

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So here we are. 
Here's your episode. 

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Laura Summers, thanks for the 
idea. 

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So let's start with our 
subjective question. 

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So our subjective for this week 
is how do you recover from a 

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season of training and racing? 
What are the things that you 

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really focus on doing that are 
important to help you recover 

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not only physically but 
mentally? 

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So Megan, you want to answer 
that question just briefly? 

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I mean, we're basically 
answering it the whole episode, 

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so. 
That's true, I guess. 

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So I think the number one thing 
after a full season of training 

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racing is to give yourself a 
break from from running, biking,

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whatever, whatever you're 
training for. 

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I usually tell my athletes to 
take like 10 days to two weeks 

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and don't even think about 
running. 

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If you don't want to like just 
wake up, do what you need to do 

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anything like on your To Do List
that you usually push off 

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because of training or anything.
And then after that kind of 

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reflect on on how the season 
went, any positives, any 

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takeaways, anything you would 
change going forward. 

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But I do think it's important 
mentally and physically, to just

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give yourself a complete break. 
Definitely, yeah. 

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Like this week I've, I'm in like
a recovery phase right now and 

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I've just been enjoying sleeping
in a little bit later and not 

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like rushing to get out the door
to do my run and you know, 

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weekend. 
Now I'm like antsy to get back 

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to running, but that's what you 
want to get to, like you want to

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get that fire back. 
Whereas, you know, a couple 

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months ago it was like, oh, I'm 
setting my alarm for 5:00 AM 

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again, I wish I could sleep in, 
so it's good to have both that 

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physical and mental break for 
sure. 

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Yeah, that sleeping in is is the
best. 

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Not having to set your alarm in 
the in the fives or fours or 

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yes. 
I know that you're doing some 

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really early workouts, so I'm 
sure it's nice to take a break 

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from that. 
There were a few days that so as

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the workouts for my previous 
marathon got longer and longer, 

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my alarm got earlier and earlier
and it got to the point I was 

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like, you know what, I just need
to block off the first hour of 

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my day because we're getting 
into like some ridiculous times 

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of wake up. 
Right. 

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And it's nice that you have the 
ability to do that, like to flex

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your schedule so that your 
training isn't, you're not out 

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there running at 3:30 in the 
morning. 

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What was the earliest you got 
out for a run this training 

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Block 330? 
Yeah, And then I was like dead. 

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The rest of the day I was like, 
this is ridiculous. 

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So from then on out, I blocked 
the days I had workouts. 

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I blocked until like 9:00, 9/10,
o'clock. 

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Some days. 
Make sure you have time to, 

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like, do the workout, shower, 
eat a good meal that noticed. 

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I was like, grabbing like a 
quick protein shake and like a 

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bar. 
I was like, this is not good. 

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No, no, definitely, definitely. 
Yeah, I would say for me, the 

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key is taking that time off, 
Like, just not stressing about 

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doing anything. 
And it also gives you time to 

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focus on the things that maybe 
you neglected while you were in 

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the middle of marathon training.
Like, I'm starting to, you know,

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organize my house and getting 
stuff ready to, like, donate to 

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the Salvation Army. 
Stuff that, you know, I just 

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didn't have the energy for when 
I was, you know, in the thick of

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marathon training, I definitely 
make sure that I'm eating 

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enough, going to bed early. 
You know, all the little things 

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that you do while you're 
training, you've still got to do

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while you're recovering because 
it's actually the recovery 

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period where you actually reap 
the benefits of all the training

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you did. 
So you'll get more into that 

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later. 
That's funny, you said that. 

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I actually just started going 
through stuff this morning to 

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donate as well. 
So it's like this place is a 

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disaster. 
I need to, I need to organize. 

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But yeah, that's also completely
true with like, what you do in 

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that recovery time. 
Like in the 10 days, two weeks, 

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whatever you take off in 
between, in between training 

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blocks. 
Like, that's what helps build 

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that consistency. 
Like still taking care of your 

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body not being like, oh, I'm 
not, I'm not running. 

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I don't need to sleep. 
I don't need to do all this 

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stuff like still taking care of 
yourself because that will pay 

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off in the next training cycle. 
Absolutely. 

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So let's get into the first part
of our episode today, which is 

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what to do post marathon. 
And post marathon recovery 

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really starts the second you 
cross the finish line, and you 

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really want to do exactly what 
you would do at the end of the 

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long run. 
So you want to get that recovery

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drink with a lot of protein, 
some carbs and within 30 minutes

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of finishing what I do is I just
put a packet of recovery drink 

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mix in like the checked bag that
I left at bag check. 

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Because you never know what the 
post race food is going to be at

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a race. 
They don't always have like a 

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good like protein rich food to 
take and you don't always feel 

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like eating that either. 
What do you do, Fern, after the 

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race? 
Megan I I. 

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Do something similar. 
I'll usually give like either a 

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family member or leave something
in the bag, just like protein 

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recovery drink, just so I have 
something right after or a 

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protein bar or some sort. 
I'll usually, so I know like at 

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least for me, right when I 
finish. 

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I'm not usually hungry, so that 
makes it even harder to get 

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something down. 
But I'll usually grab whatever 

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they're handing out at the end 
just so I have that option. 

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Because as you know like when 
that hunger hits, you're 

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starving. 
But I do try to get at least 

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something like high in protein, 
high carbs down, even 

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electrolytes too. 
Because even if you're excellent

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at taking gels, taking any salt,
getting any of the drinks along 

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the course, even with all that 
your body's probably very 

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depleted on the electrolyte 
front. 

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And that's what your muscles are
going to need to get like fluid 

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in, get water in for recovery. 
But yeah, I'll usually at least 

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try to grab whatever they're 
handing out. 

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Yeah, it'll be even if you don't
eat it right then it will be 

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good for later when you are 
starving. 

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Yeah. 
And you know, maybe we should 

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define what is high protein. 
The recommendation is at least 

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20 grams of protein. 
I think kind of the ceiling for 

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that is 40 grams. 
Beyond that, it's hard for your 

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body to 1 digest all of that at 
once or to absorb all of that at

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once. 
And most protein recovery mixes 

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do have around 20. 
There are some that are lower, 

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so you just want to check the 
label before you buy something, 

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but aim for around that 20 gram 
mark. 

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And some of the some of the 
protein drinks or the protein 

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powders have a pretty decent 
amount of carbs in there too. 

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So in one drink you just drink 
it, just get it down and and you

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kind of like cover both of 
those. 

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Absolutely, Yeah. 
Because for me, like, even after

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big workouts, I'm not hungry. 
Just like you said, you're not 

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hungry after the marathon, but 
you need to get something in. 

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But you probably are thirsty, so
it's easy just to chug that 

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recovery drink. 
Now you've gotten, you know, 8 

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to 16 ounce of fluid in, plus 
maybe 250 to 300 calories. 

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Which then buys your time to 
actually, like, start feeling 

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hungry to want to eat real food 
in the next hour or two. 

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And honestly, by the time you 
make it somewhere that you're 

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going to get food, it's probably
been like an hour, hour and a 

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half. 
Just moving up, not moving too 

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quickly after marathon. 
One mile per hour. 

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Yeah, yeah. 
After after our last race or my 

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last race, it took me, it took 
us an hour and a half to get 

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back to the hotel, just from 
like the time we meet up with 

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family. 
Get your bag, like, do whatever,

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you switch your shoes and then 
finally walk back to the hotel. 

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And then by that point I was 
starving. 

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I was like, this is perfect 
timing. 

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We'll go. 
The hotel had food there. 

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So I was like, this is perfect. 
But yeah, getting something in 

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before and making sure you have 
a plan for that in in that inner

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room, because if you got nothing
in you in like an hour and a 

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half, you're going to be feeling
so much worse the next day. 

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Right. 
And there is also that you know,

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some people call it the glycogen
window where your body has a 

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greater ability to absorb 
carbohydrates within the 1st 30 

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to 45 minutes after finishing 
exercise. 

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So if you wait too long, yes 
your body will absorb that, but 

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it has a lower capacity to 
absorb carbohydrates. 

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So getting that combination of 
carbs and protein in in that 

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first 30 to 45 minutes is really
key to set you up for proper 

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recovery after your race. 
So then after you, you know, 

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take your recovery drink, get 
back to the hotel, The next goal

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is to find some real food, 
right? 

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And same thing, you don't want 
to eat garbage. 

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I mean, you probably will feel 
like eating garbage, but try to 

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get again some carbs another at 
least 20 to 40 grams of protein 

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in, because that's helping fuel 
your recovery too. 

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Yeah that's true. 
I I mean if you think about it 

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like your body just pushed 
itself to the limits. 

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It gave you everything it had, 
give it the nutrients, the 

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proper nutrition that it needs 
to like essentially like thank 

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it like for letting you do this 
pretty awesome thing. 

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And honestly I feel like right 
after race, like whatever your 

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craving, there's prior to reason
you're craving it. 

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Like for me it's usually like a 
burger and fries and if you 

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think about it that has 
everything you need in it. 

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00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,200
It has. 
It's high in protein, obviously 

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carbs. 
It has fats, it's delicious. 

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Yes, and lots of salt, which you
also need too. 

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Yeah, those fries after a 
marathon. 

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There's nothing better than 
that. 

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00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:43,200
That's so true. 
So of course, in addition to 

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food, you also want to focus on 
hydration. 

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So don't just drink your 
recovery drink and think you're 

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good. 
You need to stay on. 

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00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:55,200
Drinking water is OK, but it 
would be better if you drink 

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like an electrolyte mix, because
you lost a lot of electrolytes 

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during the race. 
There's no way to replace one to

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one what you lost during the 
race, so you're going to be 

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depleted afterwards. 
There's actually interesting 

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00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,560
research that the fastest 
runners actually finish 

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marathons the most dehydrated. 
Slower runners apparently either

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do better hydrating during or 
because the relative intensity 

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of their running is lower 
compared to someone who's 

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running like a two hour 220 
marathon. 

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It's the elites who end up the 
most dehydrated afterwards. 

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So don't think just 'cause 
you're a fast runner that you 

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00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,560
are immune to having 
dehydration. 

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So stay on that water 
electrolytes in the days after 

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the race. 
That's so interesting. 

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I was going to say, I wonder if 
it's like because I know a lot 

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of people tend to like carry 
like water bottles with them if 

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they know they're going to be 
out there for a while. 

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But then like, the elites get 
get their own bottles on the 

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table. 
So that's interesting. 

235
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Right. 
Yeah. 

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00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:05,480
And I I would guess it has more 
to do with the intensity level 

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of running A, you know, two hour
marathon versus a four hour 

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marathon. 
Yeah. 

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00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:18,920
So, you know, I think one thing 
that's a little controversial is

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00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,920
should you drink alcohol the 
night after a marathon? 

241
00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,480
You know, you just finished your
goal race. 

242
00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,400
Maybe you know, you got APR, 
You're celebrating. 

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00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,160
You want to celebrate with some,
you know, champagne or beer or 

244
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,040
whatever. 
But we know that alcohol is 

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00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,720
really bad for us, especially as
athletes. 

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00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,400
So what? 
What are your thoughts about 

247
00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:45,840
that, Megan? 
So I I got to be honest I think 

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00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,680
it really like it's always 
sounds like oh we're going to 

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00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:53,520
like go out celebrate all these 
months of hard work but it 

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00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:57,280
really really impairs your 
recovery So much like the past 

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00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:01,440
like couple training cycles. 
I we haven't been like not even 

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00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,640
like glass of wine drinking 
anything and near recovery like 

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00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:10,760
the recovery time is so much so 
much faster like even after the 

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00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,560
like if you have like a couple 
drinks after the marathon. 

255
00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,560
I mean just think like like I 
said before, like you're 

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00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:21,480
essentially giving your body 
that what it needs to recover 

257
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,880
from giving you it's, it's all. 
And if you're giving it like 

258
00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,960
these empty calories that 
actually like depletes you of 

259
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,720
more electrolytes like that's 
it's for sure going to affect, 

260
00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:34,240
affect your recovery. 
You're going to feel worse the 

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00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,240
next day, even the next couple 
days, I think so. 

262
00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:38,720
Oh. 
Definitely, yeah. 

263
00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:44,200
I mean it definitely done like 
like marathons in the past where

264
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:48,280
like the whole team goes and 
gets like a celebratory drink. 

265
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,680
Champagne, something. 
But the last like couple races I

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00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,760
did, we didn't do that and my 
recovery has been so much 

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00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,040
faster. 
That's very. 

268
00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:58,680
Interesting. 
And it makes sense, yeah. 

269
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,720
But yeah. 
I was reading an interesting 

270
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,760
article that Stacey Sims wrote 
about this topic. 

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00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:10,640
And of course, alcohol increases
systemic inflammation, but it 

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00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:16,240
also reduces your ability to 
convert carbohydrates into 

273
00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:20,200
glycogen stores. 
So you're actually further 

274
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:25,320
impeding your ability to recover
after a big race or even after a

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00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,200
big workout. 
But one thing she wrote that I 

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00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,360
found really interesting was 
that if you consume alcohol with

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00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:36,280
protein, it does. 
You do not get as much of an 

278
00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,520
effect on your ability to 
replenish your glycogen stores. 

279
00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:45,080
So I guess the take home message
for me at least is if you are 

280
00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:49,120
going to drink after a race or a
big workout, make sure you do it

281
00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:53,400
with protein so that it doesn't 
affect your glycogen stores as 

282
00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,040
much. 
But I'm also with you Megan. 

283
00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,560
I wouldn't. 
I don't drink after races 

284
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,640
because it's like a race is like
the hardest workout you're doing

285
00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:03,840
all year. 
You want to reap all the 

286
00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,160
benefits from that. 
You don't want to blunt your 

287
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:12,480
yielding back up a response 
because you had to have that 

288
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:14,680
glass or two of wine. 
Yeah, yeah. 

289
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:21,160
And I mean, I feel like it's 
just like going back to like the

290
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,440
thanking your body kind of 
thing, like whatever you give it

291
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,200
and I feel like it's kind of 
like a slap in the face to your 

292
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:27,600
body. 
It's like you just. 

293
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,240
I just gave you all this and 
you're giving me this crap like,

294
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:36,960
but especially the day of. 
Definitely, yeah. 

295
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:42,680
So, you know, after you have 
your dinner, of course, make 

296
00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,520
sure that you get some sleep. 
You might be really tired. 

297
00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,840
You might be super amped up 
because you had a really great 

298
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,840
race or you had a bad race. 
So you can't fall asleep because

299
00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,400
you're thinking about it. 
But just, you know, try to 

300
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,400
sleep. 
Hopefully you don't have to get 

301
00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,760
up too early the next day. 
So then, the day after your 

302
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,040
marathon, what do you focus on, 
Megan? 

303
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,240
What do you tell your athletes 
to focus on? 

304
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,319
I usually tell athletes to focus
on at some point. 

305
00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:13,319
Get like a walk in, move a 
little bit, like you don't have 

306
00:17:13,319 --> 00:17:16,839
to do any, you don't have to 
bike, obviously don't run, but 

307
00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:20,520
just move and stretch, foam 
roll, do what you can to try to 

308
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,560
loosen up the body, kind of 
break up any tightnesses, 

309
00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:28,880
sorenesses, continue to focus on
eating a lot. 

310
00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:33,800
Good hydration. 
And then I'll even tell my 

311
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:37,680
athletes to like, usually I like
to journal or I'll have my 

312
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,640
athletes journal. 
But reflect on the race while 

313
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,680
it's still fresh in your mind 
because a week, 2 weeks, a month

314
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,760
down the line, your view on the 
race is going to be totally 

315
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,520
different. 
Like, I mean, I know I've been 

316
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:54,240
in this position probably every 
runner has like, you look back 

317
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:56,320
on a marathon a month later, 
you're like, Oh yeah, that was 

318
00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:58,440
easy. 
Like, I definitely could have 

319
00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:03,080
pushed myself more, but in the 
moment you're like you're 

320
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,360
feeling like you're you're 
pushing yourself to your limits.

321
00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:09,440
So trying to write all of those 
feelings down so you can look 

322
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:13,160
back and it helps to reflect in 
going forward into the next, the

323
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,280
next training cycle. 
Absolutely, Yeah. 

324
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,720
I I do the same thing like same 
day or next day. 

325
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,720
Just write down all the things I
thought I did well, all the 

326
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,280
things I thought I could improve
on for next time. 

327
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,760
And then, like when I go back 
and read that, you know, a few 

328
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,160
months later, it's like, wow, 
this is like the most honest, 

329
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,840
like self evaluation I do. 
And it's because it's so fresh 

330
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,600
in your mind. 
But yeah, it's amazing. 

331
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,560
Like, even a couple days later, 
how you think about how your 

332
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,160
race went definitely changes. 
And you forget all of the parts 

333
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:50,320
that were really hard and you 
think, Oh yeah, next time I 

334
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,720
could definitely, you know, run 
10 seconds a mile faster. 

335
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,640
Even though, like, if you had 
asked yourself that question 

336
00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,760
when you cross the finish line, 
it would be like, absolutely 

337
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:00,160
not. 
That's. 

338
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,640
What I got today that's so true,
though. 

339
00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:09,400
It's like writing down those, 
like, raw feelings, like before 

340
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,200
you have a chance to like, 
filter them. 

341
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,960
I think it's like like looking 
back in the next training second

342
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,640
be like, Oh yeah, I thought this
during the race, like let's work

343
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:21,600
on, even if it was something 
like mental, like, let's work on

344
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,240
like my mental strength at this 
point in the workout or let's 

345
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,720
focus like I OK, I know I felt 
like this during the race. 

346
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,000
Like in the next race, my goal 
is going to be to not let these 

347
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,160
like negative thoughts come in, 
or to fight them, or to work on 

348
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,960
like combating like negativity 
or something. 

349
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,560
Right. 
And sometimes, like, I know this

350
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,800
happens to me, and I'm sure it 
happens to a lot of people, but 

351
00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:46,280
the things that you worry about 
leading up to a race end up not 

352
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,760
being the things that you should
have been worrying about. 

353
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:53,000
And then during the race, it's 
like, oh crap, I should have 

354
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,840
practiced, you know, drinking 
out of a cup better. 

355
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,800
Or I should have practiced 
taking the tangents better? 

356
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,640
But if you don't write down, 
like, what you were thinking 

357
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,240
about, like during the race, 
you're you might forget it. 

358
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,240
And you might not think to 
practice those things that 

359
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:13,640
aren't directly like, oh, I need
to do this type of workout or I 

360
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,600
need to, you know, work on this 
mental strategy when it's more 

361
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:23,440
of like a technique thing or 
like just a race experience 

362
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,720
thing. 
I think it's really important to

363
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:27,720
get those thoughts down 
immediately, Yeah. 

364
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,040
And another thing going off that
like I feel like at least for 

365
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,920
me, I like, I like to visualize,
but I usually like find myself 

366
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,440
just visualizing like the start 
line and then like the last .2 

367
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:44,440
or like the last like 5K. 
But like all of those, like the 

368
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,040
the middle part, that's where 
you want to be focusing on 

369
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,240
because that's where it's going 
to be like that, that's where 

370
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,360
it's going to get challenging 
because you have 40K in the 

371
00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:55,320
middle there that you need to 
work on. 

372
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:56,960
It's going to be hard throughout
that. 

373
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,040
But making sure like even if a 
lot of the races have like 

374
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,960
course previews. 
So like what I've what I'm going

375
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,680
to try to do for my next one is 
go through the course preview 

376
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:11,840
write down or like kind of think
about how I anticipate feeling 

377
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:14,640
at that point. 
Like, OK, 10K in like, yeah, 

378
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,240
you're going to feel a little, a
little barn, but you should feel

379
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,640
pretty strong still and like 
kind of go through like each 

380
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:24,160
like like checkpoint and be 
like, OK, it's all right to feel

381
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,800
like this or I know, just I'm 
hoping it prepares a little bit 

382
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,160
more. 
Yeah, and definitely, Yeah. 

383
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:34,040
Like going in with a realistic 
expectation of how you're going 

384
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,800
to feel as opposed to like, oh, 
it's, I'm going to feel great 

385
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,440
because I'm going to be, you 
know, recovered from the taper 

386
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,360
and you know, it'll be hard the 
last few miles. 

387
00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:46,520
No, It's like progressively gets
harder at the whole race. 

388
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:51,120
And like you really have to like
mentally prepare for like it is 

389
00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:53,240
kind of like being slowly 
boiled. 

390
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:55,800
Like, that's how I feel a 
marathon is like. 

391
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,000
That's a really good way to 
play. 

392
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,880
It creeps up on you. 
Yeah, yeah, like playing mind 

393
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:03,960
games. 
Like you're OK, you're OK, I 

394
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,120
actually. 
So I worked with her, I was 

395
00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:09,640
talking to this. 
I think she's like a sports 

396
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:14,520
psychologist but she was talking
about some techniques that like 

397
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,240
my favorite one that like just 
to help when it gets challenging

398
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:19,960
in the race. 
My favorite one she was like 

399
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:25,200
actually talk to like the 
muscles or any like warning 

400
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,080
signs from your body like if 
your quads start burning be like

401
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,800
OK quads thanks. 
I know, like, I'm pushing you to

402
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:31,840
the limit. 
But we're good. 

403
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,160
And like or if you're breathing 
heavy, like, thanks lungs for 

404
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:36,800
the warning. 
Like, I know we're working hard,

405
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,120
but we're going to keep going 
and just like kind of like, I 

406
00:22:40,120 --> 00:22:43,520
think she called it, like, name 
it to tame it like, OK, yeah, 

407
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:44,840
you're hurting. 
I get it. 

408
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:49,320
That's like our natural response
when things are starting to get 

409
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,480
difficult. 
Like you want to shut down, just

410
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:52,920
like accept it. 
You're like, OK, we're going to 

411
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,040
keep going. 
I love that. 

412
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:56,760
That's great. 
That's great advice. 

413
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:58,400
Yeah. 
After she said that, I was like,

414
00:22:58,400 --> 00:22:59,560
I started using that in 
workhouse. 

415
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:00,960
I was like, oh, OK, this is 
pretty. 

416
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,840
It was kind of helpful. 
I guess the brain is a the mind 

417
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,040
is a pretty powerful thing, so. 
Absolutely. 

418
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:13,680
Anything else for day after race
that we haven't talked about 

419
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,280
already, I don't. 
Think so. 

420
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,480
I mean going on to like 
recovery. 

421
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,680
I think we talked about this in 
one of our like previous 

422
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,960
podcasts. 
Like some people like any like 

423
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,920
deep tissue or soft tissue work.
I don't know if the day after 

424
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:33,000
would be my first choice. 
Some people do, but I usually 

425
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,040
don't want anyone touching my 
legs the day after. 

426
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,160
Maybe the maybe the week after, 
yeah. 

427
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:43,160
I feel like at least three days 
after is when it's, like going 

428
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,240
to be most beneficial. 
Otherwise you're going to be, 

429
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,920
like, too guarded to get the 
benefit from it. 

430
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,360
Yeah. 
So the next thing I wanted to 

431
00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:57,080
talk about is what to do if you 
are traveling a long distance 

432
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,080
after a race, 'cause there are 
some special considerations for 

433
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:05,240
that, because anyone who's 
finished a marathon is actually 

434
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,800
technically increased risk of a 
blood clot just because of the 

435
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:13,040
systemic inflammation that's 
been produced, Dehydration, 

436
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,360
pooling of blood in your legs. 
But if you compound that with 

437
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:22,120
either being in a car, on a 
plane, train, whatever for more 

438
00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:26,200
than like 3 or 4 hours, then the
risk definitely goes up. 

439
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:32,240
So the main things to focus on. 
One I would highly recommend 

440
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,120
wearing compression socks. 
I would wear the ones that are 

441
00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:38,160
at least knee high. 
You could get the thigh high 

442
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,800
ones if you want. 
I haven't tried the full length 

443
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:43,920
compression tights. 
Have you tried those? 

444
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,760
I usually stick with the socks. 
They just, yeah, the tights. 

445
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,400
I cannot imagine that those 
would be what I would want to 

446
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,280
wear on like a long haul flight.
You want to be comfortable. 

447
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:56,840
Give me the socks and some 
sweats. 

448
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:05,520
Yes, so definitely compression 
socks, whether you're on a 

449
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,960
plane, on a train, you want to 
get up and walk around as much 

450
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,640
as you can because movement, 
particularly getting your calf 

451
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:17,080
muscles to contract, increases 
circulation to your lower legs. 

452
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,200
If you're driving, obviously you
can't get up and walk around, 

453
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,400
but you can move your legs, you 
can pump your ankles up and 

454
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,680
down, you can do some little 
marches. 

455
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,200
Just anything to move your legs 
will be helpful. 

456
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,440
And then of course try to stop 
every hour or two at a rest stop

457
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:42,120
and just get up and walk around.
The other thing to consider is 

458
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,480
there are some other factors 
that can put people at increased

459
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,640
risk of getting blood clots and 
one of the big ones is being on 

460
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:53,720
hormonal hormonal birth control.
So if you are on hormonal birth 

461
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:58,760
control, you might just want to 
be extra cautious about these 

462
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:03,600
factors after a marathon. 
And maybe, if you can, don't get

463
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:08,160
on a 12/12 hour flight the same 
day or the day after a race. 

464
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:13,720
See if you can stay an extra 
day, move around, rehydrate 

465
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:15,920
before you get on that long 
flight. 

466
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,720
Megan, I know you've done a 
couple of marathons that you've 

467
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:25,680
had to fly for, So what are your
secrets or strategies for? 

468
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,600
So definitely the compression 
socks. 

469
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,840
I think that makes a huge 
difference even like after the 

470
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,800
race, like so the last two years
I did CIM, so that's a long 

471
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,280
flight back. 
The one, the first year we 

472
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,240
stayed for a few days went to 
San Francisco. 

473
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,360
So I was able to like kind of 
get that initial soreness out of

474
00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:46,880
the way. 
But last year we flew home. 

475
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,960
We took the red eye that night, 
and that was probably one of the

476
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,880
more difficult parts of the 
whole marathon experience there.

477
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:00,120
But I did make sure to. 
So yes, the compression socks, 

478
00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:04,200
but I also paid a little extra 
just to have an aisle seat. 

479
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:06,840
I know some people pay extra to 
get first class. 

480
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:07,840
I didn't. 
I didn't do that. 

481
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:12,640
Maybe, maybe in the future. 
But the aisle seat I did because

482
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,960
that gives me an opportunity for
one to get up and walk around, 

483
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,320
like up and down the aisle. 
Like while everyone was 

484
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,840
sleeping, I was like, up moving.
And each time I got up, it was 

485
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,920
like, I don't know if I stayed 
sitting for a little too long. 

486
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,560
I knew. 
So I was like, OK, I need to 

487
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,880
like get up and move around. 
I can't, like, sleep this whole 

488
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:32,320
flight. 
And it also gives you the 

489
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,120
opportunity, like, you're 
drinking a lot of fluids, so to 

490
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:37,160
get up, go to the bathroom and 
whatever. 

491
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:43,520
But that's another thing with 
flights, usually I feel a lot 

492
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,360
more dehydrated from flying. 
I think it's because like the 

493
00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:50,200
change in pressure and I know 
there's some science find it, 

494
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,200
But making sure, yeah, making 
sure like you have the 

495
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,840
refillable water bottles, so 
when you get through security 

496
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,920
that you can fill them up and 
you're you're not waiting on the

497
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,880
flight attendants to bring you 
water and like a little cup, 

498
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,120
like you have two to three 
bottles with you. 

499
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:09,840
I think that's also very 
important. 

500
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:14,000
Make sure you have snacks as 
well are usually we'll usually 

501
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,680
pack like a whole box of like 
protein bars with us and just 

502
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,960
like stash them in different 
compartments of our carry ONS. 

503
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,240
So if you do get hungry, which 
is going to happen, like if 

504
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,720
you're travelling the day or two
after you have something that 

505
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:35,960
has some nutritional value to 
eat instead of the pretzels or 

506
00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:39,800
chocolate that they give you on 
on the planes. 

507
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,400
They're delicious. 
But you need some quality. 

508
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:47,360
Yes, and you might want like 10 
bags of the pretzels, which they

509
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,000
may not be willing to give to 
your yeah. 

510
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,440
There's like 6 pretzels in each 
and they're like the minis. 

511
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,400
Like that's not going to cut it.
I need like an entire like 

512
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,920
family size bag or you know, and
oh, peanut butter. 

513
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,320
We usually travel with our own 
peanut butter, like bring a 

514
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,840
little. 
Well, we bring an entire 

515
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,960
container for like that's packed
in the suitcase. 

516
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,920
But we also will get like the 
little Justin's, like one 

517
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,600
serving size that's allowed with
you on the plane. 

518
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,280
So we'll have that too. 
That's genius. 

519
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,560
I'm writing all of this down 
Dragon because I'm during the 

520
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,360
Osaka marathon in February, so 
I'm going to have a very long 

521
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,600
flight back. 
Fortunately, it will be two days

522
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,240
after the marathon, but still 
so. 

523
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,600
How Long's that flight? 
I think the way back it's 12 

524
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,600
hours. 
Do you have any layovers? 

525
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,400
One, but that's before the 12 
hour flight. 

526
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:49,080
So yes, get out, walk around 
maybe. 

527
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,160
Send any tips my way? 
That might be one. 

528
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,040
Maybe the first class is worth 
it, I don't know. 

529
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,640
I am actually considering 
upgrading. 

530
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,000
Yeah, especially the way home. 
Yeah, for sure. 

531
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,640
So let's move on to what to do 
in the weeks after the race. 

532
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,960
So of course, what you do is 
going to be dependent on what 

533
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,960
your next goals are, whether you
finished this marathon without 

534
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:19,320
any injuries, how mentally and 
physically fatigued you are. 

535
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,960
But of course you're going to 
take some time off running. 

536
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,520
So I know for my athletes, 
depending on what their goals 

537
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,560
are, I usually recommend one to 
two weeks off of running. 

538
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,400
Is that about what you're doing,
Megan? 

539
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,360
Yeah, yeah. 
I usually tell them like at 

540
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,800
least 10 days up to two weeks. 
If you need longer, that's OK 

541
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,800
too. 
But yeah, at least at least a 

542
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:41,320
week. 
Yeah. 

543
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,400
And the whole point of doing 
that is one you've just spent 

544
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:50,920
months training your body to 
peak, and you have to recover 

545
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,640
from all of that before you can 
start building back up for the 

546
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,240
next one. 
You can't just carry on 

547
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,480
indefinitely without seeing a 
drop in performance. 

548
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,800
There was actually a really 
interesting article in the 

549
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,480
Journal of Sport Rehabilitation 
in 2019. 

550
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:12,400
They looked at Runner's gait bio
mechanics in the days after 

551
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,880
completing a marathon. 
I think there were 17 subjects 

552
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:20,400
in the study, so they assessed 
them before the marathon, so 

553
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,960
they had a baseline. 
And then they looked at changes 

554
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,880
in their center of mass at day 2
post race and day seven, and 

555
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,320
they found some pretty 
significant changes in their 

556
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:38,600
center of mass mechanics on day 
two that they felt may result in

557
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:43,280
greater, greater injury risk. 
And they found that these 

558
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,960
changes had improved by day 
seven. 

559
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,800
So I think that, and I mean, we 
all know that, right? 

560
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,520
Like if you tried to go for a 
run like the day after a 

561
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:57,800
marathon, you're running would 
not feel or look as smooth as 

562
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,480
perhaps it did before your 
marathon. 

563
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,000
But it's interesting to see that
quantified. 

564
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,520
So I think that just lends even 
greater credence to the 

565
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:14,680
importance of taking time off. 
And I think the other thing is 

566
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,560
it's, and like we talked about 
earlier, it's not just physical,

567
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:19,880
it's about letting your mind 
recover. 

568
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,480
Like as you're like marathon 
training fatigue builds, like 

569
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,520
we're going out for runs where 
we're tired, but we're doing the

570
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,680
next one anyway. 
And that's good. 

571
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,680
That's actually what you want 
because that helps you deal with

572
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,840
the high level of fatigue that 
you're going to have during the 

573
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,200
race. 
But you need to get your body 

574
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,920
and mind to reset so that you go
out for a run and like, you feel

575
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,640
awesome and like, your mind's 
like, yes, I want to run. 

576
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,880
Like, I've missed this because I
know that when I'm marathon 

577
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,800
training, sometimes I go out for
a run and I'm like, is this done

578
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,440
yet? 
And, you know, so you often feel

579
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,000
better as you get into it, but 
it can be kind of dragging to 

580
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:07,160
like start your runs that way. 
So it's good to get that mental 

581
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:11,720
reset too. 
Yeah, like during that like week

582
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:16,760
to two weeks off, like let 
yourself miss it a little bit so

583
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,360
that when you come back like you
have that refreshed feeling. 

584
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:24,440
You're not like I don't, I don't
want to say like you don't get 

585
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,880
to that point of burnout, but 
you give yourself a break. 

586
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:32,760
So you avoid any any risks of 
that, any like risk of like the 

587
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,440
like it boiling over into the 
next training cycle. 

588
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,920
That like you don't want to 
start a training cycle and be 

589
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,760
like, oh God, I have this like 
hour easy run. 

590
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,440
I don't want to do it because if
you don't want to do it, it's 

591
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:44,960
going to show in your training 
too. 

592
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,960
But definitely in the middle of 
marathon training, there are 

593
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,960
some mornings, like those early 
mornings, and your alarm goes 

594
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,560
off and it's just like, wow, I 
really wish I could just sleep 

595
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:58,800
instead. 
I'm like, yeah, I definitely. 

596
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,840
And. 
You have this, like, internal 

597
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:03,520
debate with yourself. 
Like, yeah, like sleep's 

598
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,120
important. 
You should really let yourself 

599
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:06,760
sleep. 
But if you don't do this 

600
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:08,560
workout, you're not going to get
to do it today. 

601
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:13,480
So it's one or the other. 
And yeah, I I've. 

602
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:18,360
And certainly for me, like when 
you give yourself that refresh, 

603
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,639
you actually feel more motivated
when your alarm goes off at four

604
00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:25,960
or five. 
Like I'm getting up because I 

605
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,480
want to do that. 
You know, like this is my next 

606
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,239
goal and I'm working towards 
that. 

607
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,199
You don't if you always feel 
like, oh, why am I getting, you 

608
00:34:34,199 --> 00:34:39,199
know, like I'm too tired, I 
don't want to do this, then it's

609
00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:41,120
OK for that to happen some of 
the time. 

610
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,920
But if that's how you feel all 
of the time, it might be a sign 

611
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,880
that you either need to take a 
little bit of a break or you 

612
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:53,400
need to rework your schedule so 
that you don't like running 

613
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,120
isn't a drag. 
Yeah, I know one thing I tell 

614
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,640
myself like when that alarm goes
off, like you have never 

615
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:02,880
regretted waking up and getting 
your work done early. 

616
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:09,200
So let's go. 
And like also, so this past 

617
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,520
training cycle was my first one 
in like a year. 

618
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,320
So if I ever had that, like 
quick thought of like, oh God, I

619
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,280
want to sleep. 
And they're like, well, there 

620
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,880
was a time that you would have 
given anything to just like get 

621
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,520
up and go for a run. 
So then like those like few 

622
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,520
things that that kind of worked 
to Get Me Out of bed. 

623
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:32,720
Plus, like for me, the the 
morning hours like that, like 

624
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,760
4:00 to 6:00 AM is like my 
favorite because there's nobody 

625
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,720
out really until like the end of
the run. 

626
00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:41,800
But like, you could run in the 
middle of the street by me and 

627
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:42,960
nobody. 
Like nobody's gonna. 

628
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,760
Care. 
That's great. 

629
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:46,800
They're just quiet. 
Yeah. 

630
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,160
And it's it's so peaceful when 
you're like the only one outside

631
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,480
and like you kind of feel like 
you're like a little bit of the 

632
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,840
crazy person outside getting 
their work out in that early. 

633
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,480
Yeah, just us and the deer and 
fox and whatever. 

634
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:08,800
That's right. 
Other So besides taking time off

635
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,120
running, it is good to still 
move a little. 

636
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:16,120
Like, I mean none of us have 
time to just like lay on the 

637
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,960
couch for a week, but you still 
want to do like some short 

638
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,920
walks. 
For me short like super easy 

639
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:28,400
bike rides are helpful. 
I've started those as early as 

640
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,360
like 3 days post marathon 
because you know, I'm riding 

641
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:37,200
with a heart rate of like 90. 
You know, this isn't exercise 

642
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,800
that's actually like impacting 
my fitness at all. 

643
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,200
It's basically just moving my 
legs and it's amazing what 

644
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:48,400
those, like, super easy short 
rides do for how my muscles 

645
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,520
feel. 
So I think what you do for light

646
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,680
movement in the week or two 
after a marathon really depends 

647
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,920
what your body's accustomed to. 
You wouldn't want to, like, 

648
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,760
start riding a bike if you 
hadn't been doing that before. 

649
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,920
And similarly, like going for 
short, easy walks doesn't mean 

650
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:12,400
go hiking up a mountain three 
days after a marathon like it 

651
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,320
needs to be easy. 
It's just moving. 

652
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:19,560
It's not exercise. 
Yeah, yeah, I completely agree 

653
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,760
with that. 
And I think it also helps like, 

654
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,280
I mean, as runners you have a 
routine that's based around 

655
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,000
running. 
So like fill that time with a 

656
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:33,720
different kind of movement, like
even if that means going to gym 

657
00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:37,720
that you belong to, do some some
sort of like little strength 

658
00:37:37,720 --> 00:37:39,760
work. 
Nothing crazy, but something 

659
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:45,400
just to like give your body some
sort of like a stimulus just 

660
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:49,080
because it's good for you I 
think is important too. 

661
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,280
I'm glad you brought up strength
work. 

662
00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:56,280
I personally don't like I hold 
off on any leg strength work for

663
00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,040
at least two weeks after a 
marathon just because your 

664
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,480
muscle, your leg muscles are 
still building back up. 

665
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,480
So it doesn't really make sense 
to do something that you know 

666
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:10,640
creates micro tears in the goal 
of getting stronger like let 

667
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,880
your body recover from the 
marathon before adding in like 

668
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,560
that type of stimulus. 
But I think doing like core 

669
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,960
work, upper body work, even 
doing like balance or 

670
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,320
proprioceptive work, you know, 
like simple stuff on your mobo 

671
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,800
board or on your BOSU, that's 
all good. 

672
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:32,600
But like nothing that creates 
soreness in your legs because 

673
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,120
you you really are still 
recovering, recovering from the 

674
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,400
marathon even two or three weeks
out. 

675
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,880
The other things that I 
recommend to people, you know, 

676
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:48,280
we already talked about massage,
but if you had any aches and 

677
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,360
pains during your training block
or something was hurting during 

678
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,640
your marathon, go see a physical
therapist. 

679
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,360
Or if it's something more 
serious, go see a doctor 1st and

680
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,480
then, you know, get it 
addressed. 

681
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:05,240
Like, don't hope that it will 
just magically be gone when you 

682
00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:08,920
start training again. 
It might be maybe a little rest 

683
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,480
is all you need, but there might
be some biomechanical factors 

684
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:16,880
that you need to work on to keep
it from coming back so you've 

685
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,240
got some free time because 
you're not running as much. 

686
00:39:19,240 --> 00:39:24,040
So good time to fit in, a few PT
appointments, massage, whatever.

687
00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:30,040
But now is the time to make 
yourself better, like build back

688
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:34,160
better. 
So I definitely recommend that 

689
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,080
for people. 
And then also regarding food, 

690
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,760
like you're going to be hungry, 
your body is going to think that

691
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,840
you're still marathon training 
and that's OK Listen to your 

692
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:46,680
hunger. 
You're going to gain a little 

693
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,880
bit of weight during your 
recovery period and that's OK. 

694
00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:54,280
That weight is going to fuel 
your training in the next block.

695
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:59,280
We can't all be at, you know, 
quote UN quote, race weight for 

696
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,400
the entire year. 
That's not healthy. 

697
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,520
So you're going to gain a pound 
or two and that's fine. 

698
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,120
But the most important thing is 
you're fuelling and you keep 

699
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:10,800
eating. 
And I think there's like some 

700
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:15,080
science that like your 
metabolism still stays elevated 

701
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,280
even after you stop training 
for. 

702
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,440
I want to say it's, I think it's
like another five days or I have

703
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,480
to, I have to look back. 
But so your metabolism is still 

704
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,720
high, so you're still like even 
at rest, burning a significantly

705
00:40:27,720 --> 00:40:32,400
higher amount of calories than 
than say, somebody that hadn't 

706
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,200
just trained for a random 
marathon. 

707
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,360
So that's also something to take
into consideration when you get 

708
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,080
that like hunger. 
But you're like, what's going 

709
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:41,760
on? 
Because I haven't ran in five 

710
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,680
days, Why am I hungry? 
But that's usually why and 

711
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:46,520
you're still. 
Recovering. 

712
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:49,840
Yeah, I think that's a really 
good point too. 

713
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,000
One thing that you know, I think
everybody worries a little bit 

714
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:58,960
like, OK, I don't want to like 
go into the recovery period and 

715
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,600
gain 10 lbs or whatever. 
And again, like weight is a 

716
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,080
personal issue. 
Some people, everybody's needs 

717
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,560
are different. 
But one thing that I recommend 

718
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:12,400
to my coaching clients, and 
something that I do, is when 

719
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:17,720
you're in like the peak mileage 
period of training, you need to 

720
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,000
consume more calories. 
And you can do that a couple 

721
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,120
ways, right? 
Like you can just increase the 

722
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,240
quantity of food you eat, but 
you can also rely on things like

723
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:31,520
protein bars, protein drinks. 
And I find that if you use those

724
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,960
like supplements, like a protein
shake to add in the additional 

725
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:40,720
calories you need when you're at
your peak mileage, that helps 

726
00:41:40,720 --> 00:41:45,240
your body not get used to eating
such a large volume of food. 

727
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,360
So that then when you go into 
like a recovery period or even a

728
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,920
base period where you're 
training less, your body doesn't

729
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:57,520
think that you need to eat like 
huge meals because you were 

730
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:02,040
getting those additional 
calories through like very high 

731
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,240
caloric density supplements. 
That's interesting because then 

732
00:42:05,240 --> 00:42:08,720
if you just remove, I like that.
If you just remove like the 

733
00:42:08,720 --> 00:42:12,800
supplement part, your meals stay
the same and you don't really 

734
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,120
notice that much of a 
difference. 

735
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,080
That's I like that. 
Yeah, that was something I 

736
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:22,880
learned from cycling. 
Because you know, cyclists, you 

737
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,120
might go do a six hour ride and 
burn 3000 calories. 

738
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:31,000
The amount of calories you need 
to take in to offset that are 

739
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,120
massive. 
The only time you're ever 

740
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,400
burning that many calories 
running is when you run a 

741
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,640
marathon, and you're not running
a marathon every weekend. 

742
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:42,480
But I would certainly do a six 
hour ride every weekend when I 

743
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:46,320
was bike racing. 
So you have to figure out how to

744
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:50,400
get the calories you need 
without convincing your body 

745
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:55,000
that your like base caloric 
intake is, you know, 5000 

746
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,480
calories a day. 
And then I know this is not 

747
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,000
really related to the topic, but
how many like would you 

748
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:04,760
calculate how many calories to 
bring with you on the bike to 

749
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:09,680
replenish that? 
Yeah, so normally, like normally

750
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:14,440
on like a let's say a Zone 2 
long ride, so six hours. 

751
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:21,800
You want to bring like 250 to 
300 calories an hour with you in

752
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,280
addition to what you're 
drinking. 

753
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,560
So, you know, cyclists have 
Jersey pockets, so it's easy to 

754
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,000
put food back there. 
On a six hour ride, though, I 

755
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,720
would need to stop at a gas 
station to get more fluid a few 

756
00:43:34,720 --> 00:43:37,240
times. 
So then I might, you know, buy 

757
00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:40,640
something at the gas station. 
I definitely knew which gas 

758
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:45,560
stations in like western 
Connecticut had good, you know, 

759
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,960
ride food versus the ones that 
only had like garbage. 

760
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,800
So I would try to stop there in 
the middle of my rides. 

761
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,560
But yeah, if I started a six 
hour ride, my pockets would be 

762
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,560
weighed down with bars and gels 
and blocks. 

763
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:05,240
So it's you're eating a lot on 
the bike, but it's so much 

764
00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:08,280
easier to eat on the bike than 
running, of course. 

765
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:13,720
Yeah, I think like the most 
important thing for people to 

766
00:44:13,720 --> 00:44:19,640
remember for recovery periods is
it's when you're recovering that

767
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,440
you actually get stronger and 
reap the fitness benefits of 

768
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,040
training for and completing a 
marathon. 

769
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,680
So like, you did all this hard 
work, like you've dedicated the 

770
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:34,280
past four or five months, if not
longer, to preparing for this 

771
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:35,440
race. 
You did it. 

772
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:40,000
But now, like when you're 
recovering, is when you're 

773
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,720
actually going to get stronger 
and get a fitness bump. 

774
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,200
So if you mess up your recovery 
period, you actually potentially

775
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:51,600
could be blunting the fitness 
gain from all of your hard work.

776
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,360
Yeah, and that's true. 
And I think that also goes for 

777
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:58,240
like, recovery days within the 
marathon training block or 

778
00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:00,920
within any training block. 
Like just because you're not 

779
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:06,720
running that day doesn't mean 
you should eat like all this 

780
00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:09,680
junk food. 
You shouldn't like, use that as 

781
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:11,560
the night that you stay up late 
to get work done. 

782
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:16,440
Like that's what your body needs
to recover and be ready for the 

783
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:20,240
next, the next training. 
I don't want to say block, but 

784
00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:23,080
the next period that you go 
until you have your next 

785
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,360
recovery day or recovery week or
what have you. 

786
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:30,800
But keep that in mind because 
you know you're going to have 

787
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,160
another training block, so make 
sure you're giving your body the

788
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:41,440
time to refuel, recover, relax a
little bit before you get into 

789
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:43,720
the next block. 
Yeah, yeah, definitely. 

790
00:45:43,720 --> 00:45:47,400
I think that's one of the most 
common mistakes that I see 

791
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:51,160
people make is on their easy 
days, yeah, maybe they're not 

792
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:56,480
running, but they like decide 
to, you know, paint their house 

793
00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:01,280
or like go out partying or just 
do something that is the 

794
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:05,920
opposite of recovery. 
So and you know, sometimes life 

795
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,960
gets in the way, like most of us
are not professional runners. 

796
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,640
We have obligations and 
sometimes our recovery days are 

797
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:14,360
the days we get other stuff 
done. 

798
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:19,120
But just, you know, whatever you
have under your control, try to 

799
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:23,560
keep your easy days easy, not 
just regarding running, but 

800
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,160
regarding like all of your 
physical activity. 

801
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,200
Before we move on to base 
training, Megan, is there 

802
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:36,000
anything else you think we 
should talk about regarding like

803
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,840
the initial post marathon 
recovery period? 

804
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:43,400
I think, I mean I think we kind 
of we kind of touched on pretty 

805
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:44,800
much everything that I focused 
on. 

806
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:51,040
I'll usually in that time start 
like writing up like a strength 

807
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:55,440
program, like use the extra time
that you have now before you 

808
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,480
start running again to perfect 
the things that you're not going

809
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:03,360
to have time potentially to 
focus on or give the energy 

810
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,960
needed. 
So I'll usually write up my new 

811
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:09,520
strength program 'cause I know, 
I know for me if I don't, and 

812
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:13,320
it's still like, I don't know. 
But if I don't have this written

813
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:17,680
down, the chances of it getting 
done are significantly larger, 

814
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:21,560
so I'll usually come up with my 
whole like strength plan in that

815
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,080
time as well. 
Yeah, it's so much easier to 

816
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:29,040
plan when your brain isn't being
influenced by, like, the fatigue

817
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:30,680
of being in the middle of a 
training block. 

818
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,880
Yeah. 
So let's talk about base 

819
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,400
training. 
So base training can mean a lot 

820
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:40,280
of different things. 
So what we're really talking 

821
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,400
about here is base training 
after a marathon. 

822
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:47,040
So, you know, let's say you've 
taken one to two weeks off of 

823
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,040
running, You're ready to get 
back to running. 

824
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:54,800
So how do you do it? 
So you might start out with 

825
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:59,840
maybe like 15 to 20 minutes of 
easy running and add 5 minutes 

826
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:03,440
each day. 
All easy pays until you get to 

827
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,280
around 60 minutes. 
Again, this all depends on your 

828
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,560
next training goal, but that's 
kind of like a rough guide of 

829
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:12,920
what I use with my athletes. 
What do you use, Megan? 

830
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,280
I do something pretty similar 
like the first. 

831
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:19,360
Those first couple runs, I call 
them like the check in, like 

832
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,400
like make sure because you 
could, you could finish a race 

833
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,560
and kind of forget, like things 
that were bothering you during 

834
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:27,000
the race or in the training 
cycle. 

835
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:31,000
But if you're feeling OK after a
marathon, I call those first 

836
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:34,360
couple runs that check in, like 
make sure everything actually 

837
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:39,680
does feel good, that you're not 
kind of ignoring or haven't 

838
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,840
noticed any nagging injuries or 
any sorenesses that are still 

839
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,480
lingering. 
And if there are any sorenesses 

840
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:50,360
or aches to address them and to 
maybe even take a little more 

841
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:54,480
time off, go see APT doctor or 
whatever is necessary. 

842
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:59,760
But yeah like to refer to those 
first couple runs as like the 

843
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:04,120
check in with the body and then 
like what you said like work 

844
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:06,400
like build up the easy runs up 
to. 

845
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:10,800
I even say like 45 to 60 minutes
of just like feeling good, feel 

846
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:15,200
comfortable. 
And then I'll usually have 

847
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:21,120
people wait at least like 2 
weeks to even like start doing 

848
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:24,840
strides and not even think about
a workout for those first couple

849
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:26,080
weeks. 
Like just get back into a 

850
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:30,520
routine, get your body used to 
training again. 

851
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:34,840
There's going to be the initial 
like regular sorenesses after 

852
00:49:35,240 --> 00:49:39,840
you take a little time off. 
But yeah, then first workout I 

853
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:43,480
would say like probably 3 weeks.
Yeah, yeah, I would agree. 

854
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:48,400
And like the first workout being
like either just strides or like

855
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:50,680
short tempo. 
Nothing. 

856
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,600
Nothing getting remotely close 
to what you were doing in the 

857
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:56,240
month or two before the 
marathon. 

858
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,520
I like, I like the 10 by 1 
minute on, one minute off 

859
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:01,920
workout. 
Like you can make that as easy 

860
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,400
or hard as you want. 
You can start off at like, 

861
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:08,200
whatever effort. 
Like it could be like slower 

862
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:10,360
than marathon effort, but it's 
only for a minute. 

863
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,120
So you kind of feel things out, 
get the legs moving. 

864
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:15,080
They're almost like glorified 
strides. 

865
00:50:15,720 --> 00:50:18,920
Yeah, yeah, I like that workout 
too. 

866
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:20,640
Yeah. 
And you know, one thing that 

867
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:24,520
I've noticed every time I've 
taken some time off, whether if 

868
00:50:24,720 --> 00:50:29,840
it's after a marathon or just at
the end of a race season, is my 

869
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,000
first couple of runs. 
Like, you think you're going to 

870
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:36,640
feel, like so springy and 
awesome, like a Unicorn riding 

871
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,640
on rainbows. 
And I never do. 

872
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:45,520
Like it always just feels so 
awkward and like, have I ever 

873
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,280
run? 
Not not that bad, but it doesn't

874
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:50,320
feel great. 
It's like it's not like the 

875
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:53,200
joyful experience that you're 
imagining. 

876
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:56,680
So I just don't expect that 
anymore. 

877
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,640
No, no. 
It's like a baby deer. 

878
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:04,000
Baby giraffe is what I like. 
For some reason, I just feel, 

879
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,280
like, so uncoordinated that 
first one back and like, you 

880
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:08,760
don't know, or at least I don't 
know what to do with my arms. 

881
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:13,240
It's like, what's going on? 
It is. 

882
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:16,960
And I think part of that is the 
change that occurs in muscle 

883
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:20,720
tension when you take time off 
or even when like you decrease 

884
00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:24,720
the intensity of your training. 
So when you've taken, you know, 

885
00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:28,280
one or two weeks completely off,
your muscle tension is going to 

886
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:31,280
drop. 
And that's what leads to that, 

887
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:37,960
like baby deer feeling for sure.
It's the other things that I 

888
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:41,720
really focus on with myself and 
my athletes is like, you're 

889
00:51:41,720 --> 00:51:45,440
going to be really tempted to 
run faster than easy pace. 

890
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,160
Or you're going to be tempted to
run longer than what's 

891
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:51,280
prescribed. 
Because either you know you feel

892
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,880
like you feel like a sloth 
because you took two weeks off, 

893
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:59,720
or you had a bad race and you 
want to prove that like the next

894
00:51:59,720 --> 00:52:04,280
one's going to be better. 
Ruining the beginning of your 

895
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:09,640
base period is going to affect 
the entire training block 

896
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:12,360
because it starts you off with 
too much fatigue. 

897
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:16,440
So if you have a coach, listen 
to what your coach tells you. 

898
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,840
If you don't have a coach, you 
shouldn't be running really fast

899
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:24,680
the first couple weeks after 
your offseason and you shouldn't

900
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,880
be doing any real workouts for 
the first couple weeks. 

901
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,800
And as you like, start to add in
workouts. 

902
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:37,160
It needs to be gradual so you 
can never rush progress like 

903
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:42,640
people love to talk about, like 
hacking your way to you know, a 

904
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:46,640
marathon PR that doesn't work. 
It's just about being patient 

905
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:51,240
and consistency. 
So stick to the plan and you 

906
00:52:51,240 --> 00:52:53,560
will see dividends from that. 
Yeah. 

907
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:57,200
And even like what you said, 
like after a bad race and 

908
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:01,480
starting back up again and like 
trying to prove, like prove 

909
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:03,920
something that you're better 
than that previous outcome, Like

910
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:07,480
that's just, it's so 
counterproductive to the point 

911
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:10,680
that you're actually setting 
yourself up for even worse of a 

912
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:12,200
race. 
Like you're setting yourself up 

913
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:16,800
for injury, for not recovering 
for not letting those quality 

914
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:20,080
days be high quality. 
It's actually worse. 

915
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:21,800
And you're only you're only 
hurting yourself if you're 

916
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:23,480
pushing too hard at the start of
a training. 

917
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:26,200
Plaque, right? 
And yeah, the other things that 

918
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:30,000
I think the base period is good 
for is if you want to try a new 

919
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:33,520
pair of shoes, you've got a 
bunch of short, easy runs. 

920
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:35,360
So the stakes are really low 
there. 

921
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:39,280
If you want to test different 
gels or a different electrolyte 

922
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:42,880
drink, or if you want to try 
running with a hydration vest 

923
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:46,680
or, you know, different fuel 
belt, this is the best time to 

924
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:47,840
try. 
You're not going to ruin a 

925
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:50,880
workout if you hate it. 
You know, if you don't like the 

926
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:53,320
shoes, you're going to be back 
home pretty quickly. 

927
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:56,280
So now is the time to try new 
things. 

928
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:01,280
You don't want to be too radical
in what you try, of course, 

929
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:03,920
because you're still have to. 
Like, if you're going to 

930
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:06,800
introduce a new pair of shoes, 
you need to introduce those 

931
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:09,480
slowly. 
Same thing with nutrition. 

932
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:13,360
But the base period is the best 
time to experiment with stuff 

933
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:16,120
like that. 
I'll even throw in like if 

934
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:18,560
there's things with like form 
that you know you need to work 

935
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:22,600
on, focus on that for the 
shorter easy runs because you 

936
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:24,840
know you're only going to be out
there for a little bit. 

937
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:29,240
And it's not like you have to 
worry about, excuse me, like you

938
00:54:29,240 --> 00:54:32,560
have to worry about like 
affecting workout splits, 

939
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:34,320
anything like that. 
Like you're only out there and 

940
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:38,280
you just focus on, OK, I know my
arms get all crazy when I get 

941
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,120
tired. 
Let's try to like really hone in

942
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:44,280
on that and keep them in a good 
spot or I know I over stride. 

943
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:47,040
When you get to this point, like
let's focus on that, see what 

944
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,920
this feels versus this and just 
kind of play around with things 

945
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:53,840
that you know in the in your 
previous running or if you've 

946
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:57,520
ever had a gait analysis what 
you were told to work on, start 

947
00:54:57,520 --> 00:54:59,240
focusing. 
On that, yeah, that's great. 

948
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:05,360
Something that I do every time I
start a base period is I put my 

949
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:08,600
super shoes away. 
One, I don't use super shoes for

950
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:13,080
easy runs, but like, even when I
start doing like shorter, easier

951
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:17,680
workouts, I try to use, you 
know, lower stack, more flexible

952
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:20,000
shoes. 
Like, it's just nice to take a 

953
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:24,640
break from them and let my foot 
intrinsics work a little bit 

954
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:27,160
more. 
Of course, you know when I'm in 

955
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:30,560
the middle of marathon training,
I do my long runs and some of my

956
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:33,320
workouts in super shoes because 
it's good to one make sure 

957
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:37,520
they're comfortable, but to get 
your body used to performing 

958
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:41,400
with the bio mechanics that 
those shoes may promote. 

959
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:45,600
But during the base phase, 
there's no reason to use super 

960
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:50,800
shoes, so just put them aside. 
Work on letting your body do the

961
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:56,520
work rather than the shoe. 
Let's see. 

962
00:55:56,520 --> 00:56:00,520
So I think we hit on, you know, 
once you're ready to add in 

963
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:05,800
workouts again, strides and like
easier, shorter intervals or 

964
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:07,200
what? 
We both add in. 

965
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:11,360
I think another thing that 
people forget, and I've noticed 

966
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:15,280
that even some coaches don't 
seem to pay attention to, is 

967
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:18,240
that whatever your training 
paces were leading into the 

968
00:56:18,240 --> 00:56:21,760
marathon are probably not going 
to be your training paces, 

969
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:23,360
right? 
When you start your base period,

970
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:27,160
you took a couple weeks off, 
you've lost some fitness, and 

971
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:32,200
that's the point of a recovery 
period is to let your fitness 

972
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:35,480
come down a little bit so that 
when you build back up, it can 

973
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:37,760
build back even higher than it 
was before. 

974
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:42,920
So if you think that your 
threshold pace is X, but in 

975
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:47,160
reality it's 15 seconds per mile
slower than that, you are 

976
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:51,760
setting yourself up for a lot of
frustration and an injury if you

977
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:55,960
keep trying to do your workouts 
at your old training paces. 

978
00:56:56,400 --> 00:57:00,600
So what I recommend to people is
either you run your workouts by 

979
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:04,760
feel at 1st until you figure out
what your new training paces are

980
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:09,360
or as you get further into your 
base period and you have added 

981
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:13,920
in some intensity. 
You could do like a 2 kilometer 

982
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,960
time trial and that can help you
set your training paces, but you

983
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:20,600
definitely wouldn't want to do a
2 kilometer time trial. 

984
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:23,880
You know a month after your 
marathon cause your body isn't 

985
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:26,160
prepared for that. 
So I think the best thing you 

986
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:28,400
can do is just run by feel 
initially. 

987
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:30,680
Yeah, that's what I usually have
people do too. 

988
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:32,560
I'll just give them like an 
effort. 

989
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:37,360
Like, Imagine either you're 
running like a 10K, or if you 

990
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:39,840
were to do a half marathon 
today, like, trust your body on 

991
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:43,120
the effort or give them like a 
number on the RPE scale from 

992
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:46,280
zero to 10 and be like, OK, I'm 
working an 8 out of 10. 

993
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:48,960
That's way too hard to be doing 
this first tempo. 

994
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:54,240
But like trusting that and like 
letting your body figure out 

995
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:58,000
those paces again. 
Because after, I mean after you 

996
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:00,440
do a few training blocks, like 
you know what different workouts

997
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:02,920
are supposed to feel like. 
So if you're honest with 

998
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:05,680
yourself and you're like trying 
to hit your previous, like what 

999
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:07,600
you were at the end of your 
training cycle and you're trying

1000
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:10,960
to hit that pace and you check 
in with yourself and you're 

1001
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:14,440
like, I know this is feeling way
harder than it should and kind 

1002
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:17,320
of like backing off. 
But I think that that also comes

1003
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:20,080
like and like listen to your 
coach too. 

1004
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:25,480
But like that kind of comes with
experience and more training box

1005
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:28,360
under your belt. 
Like I think as as you go like 

1006
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:29,880
you know how to listen to your 
body. 

1007
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:33,400
Like you can take a message if 
something is feeling a lot 

1008
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:36,760
harder than it should. 
But yeah I think like those 

1009
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:41,160
first like few workouts even 
like just use that RP scale. 

1010
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:44,040
Trust your body, trust the 
effort and like the paces will 

1011
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:45,400
come back, the fitness will come
back. 

1012
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:49,680
Yeah, don't look at your watch 
too much, because if slower 

1013
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:51,920
numbers than you expect are 
going to freak you out. 

1014
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:58,080
Just don't look run by feel. 
Yeah, the the fitness definitely

1015
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:02,040
will come back if you listen to 
your body and be patient. 

1016
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:06,720
Now, as far as how long the base
phase is going to last, it 

1017
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:10,360
really depends on what your next
racing goal is. 

1018
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:16,320
Personally, I don't think that 
anyone should try to do a race 

1019
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:19,200
post marathon. 
Let's say you know, you did your

1020
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:21,720
marathon, you're happy with how 
it went. 

1021
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:25,200
You're committed to doing like a
real offseason and then build 

1022
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:27,440
back up. 
You're not really going to be 

1023
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:31,960
ready to do any type of race, I 
would say for about 8 weeks. 

1024
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:35,960
I mean, you could race, but it's
just it's not going to feel 

1025
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:38,400
great and you're certainly not 
going to be happy with your 

1026
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:42,880
performance. 
So you know, pick your pick. 

1027
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:46,960
Your next goal races in such a 
way that you're not setting 

1028
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:50,840
yourself up for failure or 
disappointment because you're 

1029
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:53,440
trying to race too soon after a 
marathon. 

1030
00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:57,600
Yeah, like give yourself the 
chance to get back up to a level

1031
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:00,080
that you'd be OK with racing. 
So like, I think that eight 

1032
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:04,080
weeks, two months is probably 
the that I'd say that would 

1033
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:06,520
probably be the lower limit, 
like where you're kind of 

1034
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:08,840
feeling good again. 
You're back into a routine, 

1035
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:13,640
you're back into like workouts. 
Yeah, I'd say that eight weeks 

1036
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:15,800
at least. 
And of course, there are 

1037
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:18,040
exceptions. 
I was trying to remember who it 

1038
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:22,920
was last year who a female who 
was trying to Olympic trials 

1039
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:27,480
qualify and I, you know, saw a 
post about her on Instagram and 

1040
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:32,440
she ran 3 marathons within like 
a six week span and on the third

1041
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:36,840
try she got a sub 237, which was
amazing. 

1042
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:42,120
So, but I mean that's probably 
like the exception as opposed to

1043
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:44,200
like what everybody should 
strive for. 

1044
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:48,240
Of course she's obviously a 
highly trained, elite athlete. 

1045
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:51,560
She's probably got years and 
years of very high mileage, 

1046
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:55,880
weeks in her legs. 
But people can surprise you. 

1047
01:00:55,880 --> 01:01:01,080
Your body can surprise you. 
So you know, for each individual

1048
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:05,080
circumstance, talk to your 
coach, you know, really figure 

1049
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:10,600
out what's possible for you. 
Do you have anything else about 

1050
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:13,000
base training that we haven't 
talked about yet? 

1051
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:16,000
I guess going off what we were 
just talking about. 

1052
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:20,680
So if you're like it'll sit like
depending on what your next race

1053
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:23,720
is like if you're going from a 
marathon to trying to erase a 

1054
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:27,440
5K, it's going to take a little 
bit more time to get your speed 

1055
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:30,400
back. 
So even like allow for a little 

1056
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:33,680
bit longer unless you want to do
a 5K as like just a reminder of 

1057
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:37,200
what they feel like, but lower 
your expectations time wise 

1058
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:38,920
usually. 
I mean your strength is going to

1059
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:42,800
be there for marathon training 
but the speed does take some 

1060
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:46,360
time to come back. 
I think that you should probably

1061
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:50,560
give another month to expect 
like to be in PR shape for a 5K 

1062
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:54,960
depending what your P Rs are. 
But yeah, I think that's another

1063
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:59,760
thing that should be that should
be considered like or if you if 

1064
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:01,800
you want to like some people 
want to go from the marathon to 

1065
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:05,120
the mile and that's that's tough
to get that speed back that's 

1066
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:09,160
going to take a lot of workouts 
but, but yeah. 

1067
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:12,720
That's a good point. 
And you know so many people use 

1068
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:17,040
like those race predictor charts
and those race predictors are 

1069
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:21,560
most accurate for distances that
are close to the race that you 

1070
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:25,600
you know the time you're using. 
So like if you enter your 5K 

1071
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:29,240
time, those race predictors are 
going to be most accurate for 

1072
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:33,000
like a 10K or like a two mile 
race. 

1073
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:37,400
But your 5K time is actually not
a great predictor of your 

1074
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:41,640
marathon time and vice versa, 
Your marathon time is definitely

1075
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:45,720
not a great predictor of like 
the 5K time or the mile time you

1076
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:49,400
could be using and what your 
watch tells you. 

1077
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:54,800
Like the race predictor on your 
watch, it says some very 

1078
01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:58,160
interesting things. 
Sometimes my watch believes in 

1079
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:01,400
me a lot more than I do, and 
sometimes my watch is very 

1080
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:05,280
insulting. 
Like, I wish I could run those 

1081
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:09,800
times it's telling me. 
I guess so. 

1082
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:14,960
Take your watch is giving you 
those predicted race times based

1083
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:18,960
on its estimate of your VO2 Max,
and your watch is not very good 

1084
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:23,440
at estimating your VO2 Max. 
So definitely take anything that

1085
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:28,200
Garmin Connect or Corros is 
telling you with a big teaspoon 

1086
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:33,920
of salt. 
Well, we've covered a lot today 

1087
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:37,560
and if anyone has any other 
questions about post marathon 

1088
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:42,160
recovery base training, just 
training in general, please 

1089
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:44,640
leave it in the comments or send
us an e-mail. 

1090
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:49,360
It's doctors running@gmail.com. 
Megan, thanks so much for 

1091
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:51,440
joining me today. 
This was fun. 

1092
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:55,640
Yes, thank you for having me. 
Yeah, it's always great to do an

1093
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:58,920
episode with you. 
I hope you have a great rest of 

1094
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:04,360
your Sunday and happy recovery 
to all that are recovering and 

1095
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:06,320
happy training to all who are 
training.