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Hey everyone and welcome to the 
Doctors Running podcast where 

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we, a group of doctors physical 
therapy, talk about the art and 

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the science of the things that 
we put on our feet today. 

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It is a two person episode with 
Doctor David Salas and myself, 

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Doctor Matthew Klein. 
We are going to do a mailbag, 

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which one of our favorite things
because we have some phenomenal 

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listeners who love to e-mail us 
questions and we don't always 

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have time to get back to them as
quick as possible. 

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So we figure, hey, let's pull 
this together and actually maybe

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make this into an informative 
episode so we can answer not 

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only questions that the emailers
have, but hopefully some 

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information that might also 
answer some questions that all 

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of you have. 
So, David, before we get 

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started, how are you doing and 
what's going on in your life? 

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Yeah, you know, I mean, same 
old, same old for the most part.

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I kind of had a rough streak 
with training where I kind of 

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had to back off a little bit. 
I think I was just doing a 

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little, little too much, trying 
too hard to do too many things, 

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you know, and I, I've had to 
scale back a little bit over the

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last month and 1/2 or so and 
we're kind of on the mend now 

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and I'm starting to run a little
bit more around 12 today. 

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I mean, that's the most I've run
in a while. 

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So if y'all are following me, 
that's why my runs have been 

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kind of sad, but they're they're
getting a little bit longer and 

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trying to do our testing and 
stuff as normal. 

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Good good. 
I mean most mostly just normal 

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stuff. 
We're recording on the day of 

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the NBA All Star game slash 
weekend. 

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I don't even know I for the NBA 
fans out there that are running.

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I am sorry for the All Star 
festivities that are currently 

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happening. 
I am not a fan. 

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Matt has no idea what I'm 
talking about. 

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Like let's just get back to 
having a single All Star game. 

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And they're doing like this 
weird thing where they're just 

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like they're doing like a 
tournament and all these 

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different teams and I don't know
who's what and who's where and 

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who's playing who. 
And they have a Rising Stars and

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AG League team and it makes no 
sense. 

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It makes zero sense. 
It's like this is like a 

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throwback for those of the Ogs 
that we're listening to. 

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When we first started this, when
Nathan or Dave would be like, if

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this shoe was a sports team, 
what would it be? 

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And I'd be sitting there totally
quiet going. 

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But like Nate or Bach would 
understand what I'm what I'm 

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talking about right now. 
They'll listen to this and 

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they'll, they'll be like, Oh 
yeah, it'll spark a little 

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conversation. 
But in in honor of Chef Curry 

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popping some threes, I got I got
a Golden State hat on here. 

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So that's what that is. 
At least know what that means. 

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Yeah. 
So in semi support of the NBA 

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for this week, that's what's 
going on. 

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I totally get it. 
What about you? 

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I'm coming. 
Coming off the CSN. 

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Yeah. 
So combined section. 

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Thank you. 
Yeah. 

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So combined section meeting is 
the big National Physical 

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Therapy conference and I just 
did my first national level 

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presentation. 
A couple of friends of mine, we 

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did one of the full length 2 
hour presentations on return to 

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sport criteria for the foot and 
ankle, needed a section on 

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return to running and realized 
that there is no actually 

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specific evidence based return 
to running criteria, at least no

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consensus on them. 
So got to present a little bit 

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on that and we'll be exploring 
that very shortly here. 

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Realizing I thought there would 
be something on that. 

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So went really, really well. 
Nate showed up at CSM and I got 

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to see him and hang out with him
a bunch and I actually finally 

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got to meet BJ in person, which 
was phenomenal. 

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We all had great Mexican food 
together down in Houston. 

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And so it was, it was great 
exhausting. 

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I was glad to get back. 
Had to fly back to Oregon when 

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it actually snow at the rear 
moment where it snowed. 

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So that was, I don't have a 
problem driving through snow. 

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I grew up driving in snow up in 
the mountains, so it was not a 

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big deal. 
But people usually freak out no 

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matter where it is. 
So and all the people for the 

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Midwest and East Coast can make 
fun of the the Northwest for 

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freaking out every time it snows
a little bit. 

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So I get it. 
But outside of that, normal 

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stuff, just trying to survive 
and keep going through stuff. 

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So we are going to transition 
into this mailbag if that's OK. 

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So we've got a ton of really 
good questions. 

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We've also got some really 
interesting stuff that Dave and 

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I were talking about beforehand 
that we think might be helpful. 

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And we will also try to look at 
this. 

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If we keep seeing some of these 
questions, we will definitely do

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some articles on this because 
one of the things that sometimes

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concerns me, but then I also 
have to take a step back and 

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realize that David, myself, 
those who that have degrees in 

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this, we get to live in this 
world all the time. 

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And so that's that's why we do 
this is we're going to share 

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this with you. 
So sometimes you're like, Oh, I 

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can't find anything on this. 
And we're like, dude, I see that

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all the time. 
So we'll try to elaborate on 

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some of the anatomy, why it's 
gone with some of these 

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questions. 
And again, we really want you to

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learn what works best for you. 
And you know, we'll probably 

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David and I were talking about 
maybe doing an episode on why 

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absolute should not be a thing, 
but stay tuned that that'll 

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there'll be a fun conversation 
there or we'll just end up going

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off topic here and you'll hear 
it. 

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So let's let's get into the 
first question. 

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And I I'm going to take this one
because David actually hasn't 

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run in this shoe yet. 
I hope he gets a chance to. 

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But Zach Roda said he's been a 
massive fan of the Brooks 

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Hyperion 2 GTS, but found that 
he wished there was something a 

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little bit more because when he 
gets to longer mileage, feet 

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kind of start to ache a little 
bit. 

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He was looking at the Glycerin 
GT GTS22 from Brooks, which we 

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still haven't got to run yet, 
but then saw that Puma released 

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the Forever Run Nitro 2, which I
have got about almost 4050 miles

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on it. 
I've been very surprised. 

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I like it said he noticed that 
the height and drop was very 

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similar the Glycerin 22 GTS. 
I'm wondering if we've tested it

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and could provide any 
information on it if he doesn't 

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have the ability to try to test 
both. 

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So I have not tried the Glycerin
22 GTS. 

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From what I understand, it is 
quite a bit softer with the tune

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DNA, very similar stack height. 
Puma, I think it's they're both 

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3820. 
The the forever run 2 is 38 

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millimeters in the heel 28 in 
the forefoot. 

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It's gotten a little bit heavier
from the last version. 

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So it's very much a training 
shoe and I didn't really like 

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the first one. 
I didn't feel like it was that 

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stable people, you know, sorry 
Puma it the heel was so clunky 

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and horrible, but the forever in
Nitro 2, they clean that shoe up

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like nobody's business. 
That has been a super solid 

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shoe. 
Whatever foam that they're 

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using, even like call it Nitro, 
does not feel the same as the 

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last one where the heel 
transition's very smooth. 

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It's very stable without being 
that aggressive stability shoe 

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that still feels like there's a 
little something in the arch, 

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but without being aggressive and
it just keeps you centered 

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throughout the whole shoe. 
I don't get those aches I 

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usually get when I'm putting on 
a true stability shoe, but it's 

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still absolutely great for 
longer runs and the foam's 

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bouncy. 
It's not like I can't run super 

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fast in it, but if I want to go 
a consistent pace or long 

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runner, it's it's awesome. 
Uppers been cleaned up as well 

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so it's a little bit wider so 
that's where the glycerin series

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typically is like kind of on 
that edge of being normal with 

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to maybe a little bit like 
sometimes wider. 

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I can have it try 22. 
The forever Nitro does fit 

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wider. 
It's got a little thicker upper,

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a little bit. 
It's really they focused on 

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comfort, but that transition is 
so much better. 

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And it's not going to have that 
more aggressive post feel that 

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the glycerin the GTS series 
typically have because yes, they

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use those guide rails things, 
but there's typically still a 

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post. 
You really feel a lot of 

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pressure on the medial side and 
sometimes the collateral. 

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The forever on is going to be 
more guidance. 

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It's going to be it's it's got a
better heel bevel than a lot of 

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Brooks shoes. 
It's going to have a smoother 

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transition, less of that mushy 
kind of really soft feel, more 

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of the bounce rolling you 
forward really nicely with a 

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wider fit. 
I've really enjoyed it. 

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And thus far, I mean, we're only
what, two months into the year? 

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It's definitely become my 
stability shoe, guided shoe of 

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the year. 
Yeah, I wish it was lighter. 

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I like that the at least the 
original was on the lighter side

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and there's not a lot of light 
stability shoes, but it's been 

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really solid and I'm really 
enjoying it. 

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And so we'll get that review up 
really soon. 

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Hopefully by the time actually 
by the time this airs, that will

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probably already be live. 
But yeah, I would really 

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encourage you if you're looking 
for something that's bouncy, a 

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little bit wider and just really
consistent, got a great under 

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foot feel, I'd really encourage 
the Forever on Nitro 2. 

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If you just want that softer 
thing and you're OK with a 

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little bit more aggressive 
stability, potentially the 

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grosser in GTS 22 might be the 
better option. 

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Should we have like a comeback 
Shoe of the Year award? 

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Oh, that's interesting. 
That could be a subjective for 

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today, like should we, should we
have a comeback Shoe of the Year

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award? 
Oh. 

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Yeah, you were not happy with 
the first ones. 

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Yeah, I was not, but. 
This is this is a complete 180 

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like that is yeah, I mean, yeah,
that for you to for you to say 

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that especially in the stability
category is that means a lot. 

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Yeah, I would definitely agree 
with you. 

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That's a great way of saying 
it's a total 180 from the first 

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version. 
So Puma, great job on the redo. 

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I think that's a lot of work 
went into that. 

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So it's it's great. 
So yeah, by the way, for those 

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of you who don't know, I saw 
this this question on YouTube 

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the other day going what does 
subjective mean? 

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And I think is PTS and help 
people. 

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Subjective, yeah. 
We've got to forget subjective 

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is usually like, so when you're 
doing an examination with a 

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patient, the subjective portion 
is a talking you're trying to 

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get, you're trying to get 
information. 

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It's just, you know, it's the 
talking component like what's 

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happened, what's the history of 
this injury? 

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Like what are aggravating 
factors easing things so that 

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it's just the talk. 
It's like a talking point 

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basically. 
So yeah. 

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So I think what would be the the
comeback shoe of the year for 

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everybody in our subjective. 
Let us know below and wherever 

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you're. 
Listening, So I'll take the next

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question here. 
I'll just read it off and then 

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we'll probably both have 
something to say. 

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I'm sure this one comes from 
Jeff. 

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What's up, Jeff? 
This one is, I feel like all the

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questions this week, we they're 
all pretty bulky. 

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Is there any significance to the
center line of a flexed carbon 

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shoe? 
If I flex different shoes 

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anchoring at the toe and the 
heel, the shoe breaks at 

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different points along the sole.
ASIC Sky Paris center line is at

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the middle of the sole under the
arch and use that Audios Pro 4 

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breaks a little in front of the 
metatarsophalangeal joint. 

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The Alpha Fly 3 center line is 
in is at the four foot slightly 

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behind the MTV joint. 
I'm just saying MTP because 

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metatarsophalangeal is not 
exactly the most fun thing to 

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pronounce over and over again. 
I am unsure how is flexing the 

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shoe and the wait. 
Flexing the shoe at the heel and

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toe is valid. 
However, I think it may 

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correlate with the most flexible
part of the plates which could 

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impact stress on the foot or the
shoes performance. 

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I saw some images of a shoe 
flexion test with the toes 

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clamped, however that appears to
bias more stress on the fronts 

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of the plates and not 
necessarily the most flexible 

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part of the shoe. 
Could you share some insight on 

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this theory? 
I'm just going to start by 

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00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,000
saying like that is not a hard 
science at all. 

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00:10:39,560 --> 00:10:42,000
Like how many times has someone 
gone into a local running shoe 

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00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,680
store, grabbed it and been like 
bam. 

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00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,280
Can I make a, can I make a, can 
I make a point really quick like

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so for those people that have 
worked in the running in running

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00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:56,200
stores, like if if you as 
someone who's done that, if you 

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00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,000
are walking into a running 
store, absolutely do not walk in

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there and bend it like that 
because a that test is garbage. 

233
00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:06,200
It's not valid because a the 
shoe isn't weighted. 

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00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:10,520
It's shoes will bend in very 
different ways as an interaction

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00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:14,160
between you and the shoe if it's
and that's when you're weight 

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00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:15,880
bearing it. 
If you take it in a non weight 

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00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,880
bearing situation and then you 
bend it, where you're bending 

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00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,440
could be where the the most 
flexible part of the shoe is, 

239
00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,760
which could be where the most 
flexible part of the plate is, 

240
00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:26,480
where the most flexible part of 
the sole. 

241
00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,280
It could also be just an 
abnormal placement of your 

242
00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,080
pressure. 
Because I guarantee you that you

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00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,440
are not reliable. 
And no, neither is any other 

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00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:37,240
person pushing a shoe together. 
So no, it's absolutely not 

245
00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:38,360
valid. 
Please don't do that. 

246
00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,120
Because if you do do that, you 
will create an artificial flex 

247
00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,720
point in the shoe and then I 
can't tell you how it's going to

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00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,280
operate after that. 
So don't, don't do that. 

249
00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:48,080
Don't screw it up. 
But David, I interrupted you. 

250
00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:49,400
What? 
What do you what do you think? 

251
00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,760
No, and you shouldn't do that. 
Someone broke my boy Connor from

252
00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:55,520
running warehouses. 
Endorphin elite twos. 

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00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,240
I don't know who you are. 
If you're listening to this, 

254
00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,440
don't do that. 
He told me that when this is 

255
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,720
back in November he was going to
wear his endorphin elite season.

256
00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,880
He was like someone broke him 
like they wouldn't met some. 

257
00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,080
Anyways, sorry that is a tangent
shout out Connor. 

258
00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,200
Yeah, please don't do that. 
Yeah, this is not valid at all, 

259
00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,960
and it's again, not. 
It's not in the correct state 

260
00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,960
for it to even be valid or 
reliable, so no. 

261
00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,600
Yeah. 
What I will say though is 

262
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,480
different companies do focus on 
stiffness in different areas. 

263
00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:36,200
And that is something that 
companies do look at internally 

264
00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,360
that that that is truly 
something that they look at. 

265
00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,880
Where do they want it to flex? 
How stiff do they want it to be?

266
00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:43,320
You had brought this up 
previously with some of the 

267
00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,280
stuff from Jared Ward in a 
previous episode. 

268
00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,400
Shout out Jared Ward, not just 
as a runner, but as a scientist,

269
00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,040
talking about different 
stiffness and how people respond

270
00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:53,560
to different stiffness within 
footwear. 

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00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:56,440
That is, that is big, right, To 
study those things. 

272
00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,560
And that was kind of the birth 
of the endorphin pro and the 

273
00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,560
endorphin, Oh my gosh, I'm going
to say elite endorphin speed, 

274
00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,840
endorphin prone endorphin speed 
from Saucony in that lineage. 

275
00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,200
And that and that is something 
that they look at, that is 

276
00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,360
something that they study, but 
they don't necessarily care. 

277
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,680
Like the way that you run in 
your bio mechanics, you're not 

278
00:13:16,680 --> 00:13:19,000
going to break that plate. 
You're not going to put it in 

279
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,280
angles that jeopardize it in 
that way. 

280
00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:23,880
And if you do, it's probably 
going to be something that's a 

281
00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,920
little bit fluky. 
Maybe you stepped off of like 

282
00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,160
you're stepping onto a curb and 
you're in some dramatic range of

283
00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,800
motion and it's at an angle, 
just the right angle, a snap it 

284
00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,680
or something, or it's a pothole 
or you know. 

285
00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,600
But for the most part in 
controlled studied environments,

286
00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:39,840
those things aren't going to 
break. 

287
00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,120
But they study the four foot 
bending, longitudinal bending, 

288
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,280
stiffness. 
They do look at those things, 

289
00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:50,720
but they're not really looking 
at where it's going to break and

290
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,680
why. 
And that's not exactly of the 

291
00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:57,240
most importance. 
And like you said, I mean, like 

292
00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:00,240
just from a physics standpoint, 
when you go and you bend it, 

293
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:02,840
that's not a standardized 
measurement, right? 

294
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,960
Like if I'm stronger on my right
side or if I'm holding it like 

295
00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,160
this, I'm putting it in 
whatever. 

296
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,640
Like the vectors are not going 
to line up consistent every 

297
00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,080
single time. 
And where it breaks may or may 

298
00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,280
not be consistent. 
So you could take that same 

299
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,640
shoe, break the same shoe five 
times, and it might be a 

300
00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,840
different spot every time. 
I will say also that I I'm not 

301
00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,240
discounting what's called the 
anterior posterior forces in 

302
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,480
gait. 
So there's different forces that

303
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:28,880
occur when you land on the 
ground. 

304
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,600
There's the ones that are like 
the vertical ones, there's one 

305
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:33,640
in the horizontal plane and 
those are usually called the 

306
00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:37,680
anterior posterior forces. 
Yes, there are some, but the 

307
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:39,760
amount of force that you're 
putting through the shoe is not 

308
00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,600
that is shoe is not designed to 
be loaded in that way at all. 

309
00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,040
And so again, the way companies 
look at this is they actually 

310
00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:51,360
have devices that load the shoe 
and bend it very similar to how 

311
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,680
with appropriate weight and 
bending, especially to the four 

312
00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,080
foot to see where is it actually
bending under load and how does 

313
00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,760
what happens to that over many, 
many, many, they'll do 

314
00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:02,640
repetition tests where they keep
going, going, going, going a 

315
00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:06,360
certain number of foot like 
times to try to replicate what a

316
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,560
runner would do, which how valid
it is, I don't know, but they're

317
00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,320
going to do it under load, not 
unweighted pushing together. 

318
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,520
So this is not a valid test. 
I think would be way more valid 

319
00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,960
is put it on and roll through 
it, like actually running it. 

320
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,680
If you actually still feel it 
bending in an abnormal spot, 

321
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,680
that's a good reason to go at 
this is not the shoe for me 

322
00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,040
because you want the shoe to 
line up with your mechanics. 

323
00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:29,480
And somebody asked me this the 
other day going, you know, hey, 

324
00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,640
you guys have talked about how, 
you know, plates are typically 

325
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,160
going to work better for you If 
the, if the curve of the plate 

326
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,120
lines up with your first 
metatarsal phalangeal joint, 

327
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:38,200
they're like, how do you know 
that? 

328
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,440
Like we don't really have a 
great way to do that. 

329
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,240
Put it on, put the shoe. 
I don't know how many times not 

330
00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:45,600
to be upset, but like this is 
the same thing with wear 

331
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,160
patterns or with also put this 
shoe on and see if it's 

332
00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,720
comfortable or not. 
If it doesn't feel good, I can 

333
00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:53,200
tell you there's probably a good
at this. 

334
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,480
It's can very highly suggested 
based on the comfort filter that

335
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:57,960
it probably isn't lining up 
their foot. 

336
00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:02,400
If it hurts, like take it off, 
you know, so I don't know what 

337
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,040
else to tell you. 
Don't make this so complicated. 

338
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,800
We were joking before coming on 
air that this was going to be a 

339
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,080
slightly unhinged episode. 
I feel like it. 

340
00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:13,080
I feel like it's starting to 
head in that direction. 

341
00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,240
So, so Jeff, I hope that answers
the question that I, I would 

342
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:17,640
really encourage you not to do 
that test. 

343
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:19,720
And I would encourage you to, if
you want something more valid, 

344
00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,920
reliable, put it on your foot. 
Valid, reliable for you, put it 

345
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:24,880
on your foot. 
See how it feels under foot. 

346
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,400
Is it flexing in the right spot?
Does it feel comfortable for 

347
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,320
you? 
If not that, do you know it's 

348
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,040
not a shoe for you? 
You know, that's as much crazy 

349
00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,120
research as we have. 
It all comes down to does it fit

350
00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,520
well and does it feel feel 
comfortable on your foot And if 

351
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,240
the more you learn about what 
feels good, the better you're 

352
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,680
going to be able to go add on. 
This is not going to be it, but 

353
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:45,440
let's move on. 
I think it's great. 

354
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,560
Don't do that test. 
So Andrew asks, he says he's 

355
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:53,280
looking for a specific shoe. 
It sounds like he's having some 

356
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:56,200
calf issues, which fortunately 
he's going and seeing a 

357
00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,200
physiotherapist for, which is 
great. 

358
00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,560
That's awesome. 
He's doing some strengthening, 

359
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,760
but typically has it sounds like
some lower drop shoes. 

360
00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:09,160
So he's running in the ultra 
paradigms. 

361
00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:11,960
He's noticing his calves get 
really tight. 

362
00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,400
After that he tried The Tempest 
tube but found the toe box tube 

363
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,200
and arrow, which I also totally,
totally agree with and then 

364
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,920
settle in the Nova Blast 5, 
which he was happy with. 

365
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,040
He says that his calves are not 
getting as tired, but he says 

366
00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,440
that it it just feels less 
stable, especially on one side 

367
00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,920
because it feels a lot softer, 
which softer shoes typically 

368
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:33,840
tend to be a little bit less 
stable because there's more 

369
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:35,720
compression. 
You may move a little bit. 

370
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:39,320
That's not always true, but 
typically that's more on on the 

371
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,760
on the true sides and notices 
also he's getting some because 

372
00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:47,880
of this fatigue in his hips on 
the opposite side and is using 

373
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,720
these in different ways. 
So he's trying to figure out 

374
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,200
does he need a more stable shoe 
to lighten his hips up or does 

375
00:17:55,200 --> 00:18:00,000
he need to think about a maybe a
shoe that's better match for him

376
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:01,960
with long runs? 
Does he need something that 

377
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:03,720
maybe is a little bit higher 
drop? 

378
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,920
So there's a couple questions 
here specifically related to 

379
00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:11,280
calf fatigue and hip fatigue. 
So David, with the stuff that 

380
00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:15,560
I've the the brief synopsis of 
this in terms of trying to run 

381
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:19,200
for longer distances and trying 
to figure out whether he needs 

382
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:20,880
more stability or something 
else. 

383
00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,480
What are your initial thoughts 
on this question? 

384
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,040
Yeah. 
I think the keyword that you 

385
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,600
brought up a few times is 
fatigue, whether it's calf 

386
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:33,040
fatigue, hip fatigue, whatever. 
Fatigue is fatigue here. 

387
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,760
In this situation, I think you 
kind of have to look at where 

388
00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:40,800
you are in a training cycle, 
what you're used to doing, what 

389
00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:45,880
is progressive overload that a 
shoe in itself isn't necessarily

390
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:47,920
going to save you in this 
situation. 

391
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:51,040
If you're used to running three 
to four miles, they didn't 

392
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,200
exactly put what they were 
running as longer, did they? 

393
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,400
12 They're hoping to get to 12 
to 20 mile runs. 

394
00:18:57,840 --> 00:18:59,640
Right. 
So like, if you're going, if 

395
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:03,920
three to four is what you're 
doing, I mean, 12 is literally 

396
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:07,040
three to four times more of 
distance. 

397
00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,160
You know, it may not, it might 
seem trivial because the numbers

398
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,520
aren't that far. 
But even for someone like me, I 

399
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,040
know the difference between 8:00
and 12:00. 

400
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,160
I know the difference between 
4:00 and 8:00. 

401
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:21,080
You know, like, like the volume 
does matter here. 

402
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,360
And I think some of it is just 
being a little bit smarter at 

403
00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:28,000
scaling how far you're going and
what you're truly ready for. 

404
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,440
I don't know if you necessarily 
need more stability. 

405
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,520
I think you might just need to 
be a little bit smarter with 

406
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:41,480
your programming. 
But I'm happy that you found the

407
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,440
Nova Blasts and that the toe box
is a little bit wider for you 

408
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,520
and that it is working better 
for your mechanics. 

409
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,880
Calves are not quite as tired. 
I will say that is a more 

410
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,560
rockered shoe and that's 
probably why you are starting to

411
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,040
feel some of the hip and the 
adductor a little bit more 

412
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,760
versus the Cavs. 
Your mechanics do change a 

413
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,320
little bit based on what's on 
your foot, but I don't 

414
00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:06,320
necessarily think it's strictly 
put a more stable shoe on and 

415
00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:10,800
the answer will be solved. 
I I wish I had a more direct 

416
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,000
answer to that. 
I think that's something, again,

417
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,680
we we, Dave and I were talking 
about the challenge with 

418
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:18,240
absolutes. 
I think it's a great thing to 

419
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,560
realize, hey, you know, we love 
to focus on shoes, but there's 

420
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,920
also an endurance and a training
component is if you didn't give 

421
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,440
yourself enough time to jump 
into this stuff, yeah, you're 

422
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:28,680
going to fatigue. 
And it makes total sense that 

423
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,760
that Andrew's having some 
fatigue in the foot. 

424
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,360
And yeah, some mild pronation 
isn't, isn't necessarily the 

425
00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:37,520
biggest thing that's going to 
impact calves because that's 

426
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,600
more like side to side. 
But if calves can certainly get 

427
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,840
into that motion and, and get 
fatigue, your calf muscles are 

428
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:45,800
your primary propulsive muscles 
during running. 

429
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,720
You're going to use those more 
especially, especially if you're

430
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:52,160
not running super fast, even at 
super fast actually like you're 

431
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:53,640
that's where hips get more 
involved. 

432
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:55,480
But the calves are what you 
primarily use. 

433
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,840
So if they're getting tired, 
yeah, I think the strength 

434
00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:59,640
training you're talking about is
great. 

435
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,880
I think that's really important.
You can consider a more rocker 

436
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:04,040
tree. 
That's probably why the Nova 

437
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,440
Blast 5 is feeling better 
because a rocker does take some 

438
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,440
load off the calves, but you you
know, you still want them to 

439
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,480
work. 
An ultra shoe is going to be all

440
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,080
calf like you're running in a 
softer. 

441
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,520
It's it's, I mean, yes. 
It's not, it's not a guaranteed 

442
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:19,600
0 drop, Yeah. 
It could be negative because the

443
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,760
the the paradigm is actually a 
what? 

444
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,920
Well Paradigm 0 drop I was 
saying it's not a guaranteed 0 

445
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,960
drop anymore because Ultra 
doesn't only make 0 drop 

446
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,560
anymore. 
That's fair, but the the 

447
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,840
paradigm actually could be, 
depending on your mechanic, 

448
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,760
could be negative drop. 
If you are a heavy heel striker 

449
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,200
and that shoes not firm, it's on
the softer side and you're going

450
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,840
to actually create a negative 
drop shoe, which you better make

451
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:43,960
sure your calves are really 
conditioned if you want to go 

452
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:48,280
longer for so a rocker shoe with
maybe a little bit higher drop 

453
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:50,880
might be an option if you don't 
want to go something as high as 

454
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:52,080
10. 
I talked about how much I'm 

455
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,320
loving the forever run too. 
It's not the lightest shoe 

456
00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:57,360
because there's not a lot of 
light stability shoes I think. 

457
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:02,040
Correct me if I'm wrong. 
I feel like the Hyperion GTS is 

458
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,320
like the only light stability 
shoe. 

459
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,680
I mean The Tempest is obviously 
not working because the toe box 

460
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,880
too narrow. 
Is the Newton. 

461
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,000
Oh, I totally forgot it. 
Well, I feel. 

462
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:13,920
Like what do they call it? 
The distance S what? 

463
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:15,960
What is? 
Yeah, though those are in the 8 

464
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,640
oz range, but I've, I mean I've 
I've sorry Newton, I kept 

465
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,040
forgetting about those, but the 
my problem with those is those 

466
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,960
are also super low drop and 
super calf aggressive They. 

467
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:25,800
They like, they are pretty 
aggressive. 

468
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,000
No, they're like, that's fair, 
stable. 

469
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:28,960
They are. 
That's fair. 

470
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:30,680
For for what it's worth. 
That's fair. 

471
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,680
I would say yeah. 
In terms of more normal drop 

472
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,360
like stability shoes like the 
Hyperunion GTS is one of the 

473
00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:39,800
only ones. 
The A6 GT 2000 is is is a 

474
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:44,240
favorite of both of ours. 
It's not the softest shoe out 

475
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,600
there, but that might also work 
as another one. 

476
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,200
It's also not the most rockered.
So that's something he wants. 

477
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,720
The other option is going up 
taller and doing like, you know,

478
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,320
something that popped into my 
brain or another another like 

479
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,960
stable one that's very rockered 
is like the glycerin Max could 

480
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,560
be an option, but it sounds like
I'm less worried about the 

481
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:03,960
malpronation. 
I'm a little bit more worried 

482
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,760
about the cast of finding a, you
know, if the no glass is working

483
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:08,400
great. 
Focus on your training. 

484
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,680
Don't worry about this. 
I would not overthink this stuff

485
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,800
because you have enough shoes 
and that's one of the greatest 

486
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,760
things for reducing injury is 
having a variety of shoes. 

487
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,200
I I think you should focus on 
your strength work and I think 

488
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,760
you should slowly make sure that
you're increasing your training 

489
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,200
at the right level. 
But if you wanted something 

490
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,840
more, I would look at a more 
stable neutral Rockard shoe 

491
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,560
because there's not that many 
stability shoes that are fitting

492
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,520
into what you're working looking
for. 

493
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,760
In terms of the faster shoes, 
because Tempest isn't working 

494
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,120
and that's probably going to be 
one of the more cushioned ones 

495
00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:41,600
that actually can handle some 
speed work. 

496
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,800
The next one would be the the A6
GG 2000 series because Hyperion 

497
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,360
GTS is not going to be enough 
for you and Newton's distance S 

498
00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:51,560
shoes are are going to be like 
they're going to wreck your 

499
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,280
calves. 
So it's pretty aggressive. 

500
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,840
Yeah. 
So I would say I would be 

501
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:57,640
looking for stable neutral 
rocker shoes. 

502
00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,280
That's something you want, but I
would focus more on your 

503
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,520
training and strength work 
first. 

504
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,160
Cool. 
Sweet. 

505
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,160
Next one. 
Joe Yeah. 

506
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,600
Is it near you? 
I'll read it. 

507
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,480
I think this is a good question.
This is a good question for you 

508
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,520
actually. 
So I'll read this and then we'll

509
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,440
throw this to you. 
So Helen asks, I have a question

510
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,320
on buying my first super 
trainer. 

511
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,680
So there Helen is coming back 
after injury and is starting to 

512
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,160
be able to consistently train. 
Sounds like it wasn't really 

513
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,200
ever specified what it was that 
she'd been to a lot of people 

514
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:33,120
and variety of things that in my
mind sounds like either she has 

515
00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:37,640
a gluteal tendinopathy or some 
kind of referred lumbar spine 

516
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:39,080
fine thing. 
And they did, they didn't they 

517
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,280
didn't find anything. 
But now they're getting back. 

518
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,600
She's doing much better with 
exercises. 

519
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,080
And So what doing currently is 
runs four times a week, does 

520
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:52,640
some cross training, usually 
runs between 8 to 15 K And for 

521
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,560
those of you that don't know 
kilometers, it's about 5:00 to 

522
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,800
9:00-ish miles and then does 
about 40 to 45 kilometers a 

523
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,640
week. 
That's and then has several 

524
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,680
pairs of. 30. 
Yeah, a little less. 30 likes 

525
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,520
Topo shoes because of the 
anatomic toe box. 

526
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,400
Also likes also has the ultra 
forward in Sakani Canvaro. 

527
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:16,760
So we're thinking like 4 to 5mm 
and does not like soft shoes. 

528
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,960
So she tried the 1080 didn't 
work. 

529
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,040
Feels like she's running on 
sand, says is narrow feet but 

530
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:27,360
still wants enough room in the 
toe and is doing lots of work on

531
00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:29,000
their foot and ankles because of
prior fracture. 

532
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,480
So on super trainers, probably 
wanting something in the lower 

533
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,440
drop range. 
Mentions the Cloud Flow 4 which 

534
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,640
is not a super trainer. 
No, she's seeing a lot of stuff 

535
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,280
on the Endorphin Speed 4. 
Just feels really overwhelmed 

536
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,880
and is looking for it. 
Sounds like a shoe that's on the

537
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,840
kind of more moderate to lower 
drop, maybe a little bit wider 

538
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,320
toe box, but wants to try 
something in the Super trainer 

539
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,800
range that's not going to be too
soft. 

540
00:25:57,120 --> 00:25:59,600
So David, do you have any ideas 
on this? 

541
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,400
Yeah, it's interesting because 
the shoes that she listed are 

542
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,720
surprisingly flexible. 
So when you look at the Cyclone 

543
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:09,840
2, the Spectre 2 has some 
stiffness. 

544
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,080
Phantom 3 has a little bit of 
flexibility, Forward flow has 

545
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,320
some. 
It's the decent rocker though 

546
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,880
that's a little bit more stiff. 
But the Canvara is also really 

547
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:23,440
flexible so that most super 
trainers are so high up and 

548
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,000
they're a lot of them are plated
now, a lot of them aren't really

549
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,880
that flexible. 
So if you're truly looking at a 

550
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,440
super trainer, it's like, OK, 
well, let's look at the ones 

551
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,720
that do have some flexibility. 
And most of those shoes are in 

552
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,600
that 5:00-ish millimeter drop 
that you were describing. 

553
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,600
No, I'm, I'm not exactly 
entirely opposed to the 

554
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,560
Endorphin speed option, even 
though it's a little bit higher.

555
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,600
It's like 8mm, right? 
But the foam is a lot softer. 

556
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,800
And so it's going to operate a 
little bit like a lower drop. 

557
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,120
So it might feel a little closer
to six or five. 

558
00:26:57,120 --> 00:26:59,640
And it is a little bit more 
flexible with the nylon plate. 

559
00:27:00,360 --> 00:27:04,480
I don't think that's a bad 
option here if you're truly if 

560
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,560
you're just looking for like 
super trainers. 

561
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,720
Another one I was thinking would
maybe be like looking at like, 

562
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:14,600
well I don't know, what do you 
got? 

563
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,280
No, I was just going to say my 
only concern, I think the Speed 

564
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,360
4 is great. 
My only concern is it's also not

565
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,920
got the whitest toolbox. 
It's a little bit no, no 

566
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:23,680
tapered. 
It's meant to be a faster shoe. 

567
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,160
So a lot of those more 
traditional shoes typically are 

568
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:31,080
a little bit more snug. 
Why not like not plated but a 

569
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,840
little bit more flexible. 
Lightweight does have a super 

570
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,880
foam but it is the New Balance 
Rebel series. 

571
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,280
Ohh, that's interesting. 
Why not that? 

572
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,960
Not a super trainer, but 
definitely. 

573
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,920
But it's but it has the foam. 
Yeah, I mean like I think it 

574
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,640
depends on two like what we 
classify as a super trainer, 

575
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,320
right? 
Because if we're going to go 

576
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,800
with the 40 above 40 stack, the 
sock and endorphin speed would 

577
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,640
not count. 
Technically, yeah, you're right.

578
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:01,440
So I think it's important to 
look at the usage of the shoe. 

579
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,600
I'm looking at it more from the 
materials standpoint, I think is

580
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,720
what they're kind of getting at 
here is they? 

581
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,760
But then for that matter, 
Cyclone two would kind of count,

582
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,280
right? 
Because that is P backs. 

583
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:19,160
Same with the Spectre 2 that is 
technically P backs, but looking

584
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,640
at those that's kind of what I'm
thinking. 

585
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:27,000
The other one that kind of came 
to mind was the on cloud monster

586
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:31,560
Hyper. 
It's not the most ideal on the 

587
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,800
parameters, but it kind of 
works. 

588
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,840
I'm surprised you didn't. 
Say this earlier. 

589
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:38,160
I was waiting for you to say 
that. 

590
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:42,360
Oh no, no, I was thinking it but
it's not. 

591
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,560
It doesn't check all the boxes 
right like and that toe box 

592
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,720
isn't the widest. 
I it's not narrow. 

593
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,240
It's just very normal. 
I feel like there's a decent 

594
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,760
amount of volume in the shoe, 
but the width isn't super wide. 

595
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,920
So that would be something you 
just have to try that shoe on 

596
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,840
and see, but that is a super 
trainer. 

597
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,440
It's over 40mm of stack. 
It's got the helion HF midsole. 

598
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,040
It's very cushioned. 
It's Max. 

599
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,440
You know, it's a, it's a Max 
cushion shoe, but it's firmed up

600
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,440
a little bit with the cloud tech
kind of wraps around, gives you 

601
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,800
a little bit of stability and 
there's no plate and there's a 

602
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,480
little bit of flexibility 
upfront for how much foam there 

603
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:18,960
is. 
You know, again, a lot of the 

604
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,200
shoes that have that much foam 
are naturally going to be 

605
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,080
stiffer just because they have a
bunch of foam. 

606
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,320
So plate or no plate, it's going
to, it's a lot to bend. 

607
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,200
But compared to a lot of the 
Super trainers in the market, 

608
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,960
that one probably is one of the 
more flexible options 6. 

609
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:40,240
Millimeter drop, right? 
Oh yeah, I don't remember 

610
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:41,760
that's. 
See, I think that's. 

611
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,160
Actually 43mm I think in the 
heel, but I don't remember what 

612
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:46,480
the forefoot was at. 
Yeah. 

613
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:48,280
Can you double check that? 
Really. 

614
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:49,960
Quick, because I I can do it 
real quick. 

615
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:51,240
Yeah, let me. 
Yeah, I'll pull it up right now.

616
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,400
Because that's the honestly, 
that was the one that was I was 

617
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,600
thinking of the top of my head 
because all the. 

618
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,120
Other that's what came up in my 
head too. 

619
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,440
Yeah, that was the first thing. 
But I just, I, I don't know, 

620
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,440
just based on the other shoes 
that she was listing, that's the

621
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,000
only reason why I didn't say it 
first. 

622
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,720
No, it's fine. 
I think to, to be honest, a lot 

623
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,360
of the other super trainers are 
going to be way too soft. 

624
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,760
They're going to be very and and
a lot of them unfortunately have

625
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,720
a taper toe box where you you 
could try to get out of that. 

626
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,760
But you know, based on that 
more, I'm surprised I was luck. 

627
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:25,720
That was luck, was that. 
A guess he just, he just tossed 

628
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:26,920
it out. 
Yeah, yeah. 

629
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,440
Per US, it's 4438. 
Yeah, 6mm. 

630
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,920
I feel like based on what she's 
running in and based on not 

631
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,520
wanting a soft shoe, which the 
majority of super trainers are 

632
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,800
like, I don't know why when when
she's talking about like 5mm 

633
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,840
drop, I'm like, what about like 
you're talking Cycons and. 

634
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,520
Kevaras and it's like the exact 
opposite type of shoe. 

635
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:49,880
Yeah. 
I was thinking like what about 1

636
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,840
of Hoka's trainers or Puma or 
any and I was like, those are 

637
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,560
going to be too soft. 
You need something, you're going

638
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,280
to want something a little bit 
firmer that still has a little 

639
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,480
room. 
But again, she likes the Kevara,

640
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,680
which is not a wide shoe by many
means on. 

641
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:10,760
So yeah, I think the on Cloud or
Cloud Monster Hyper is a 

642
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,320
phenomenal choice that I would 
say take a look at. 

643
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,400
Durability has actually been 
great and it's handled really 

644
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,320
it's a little expensive, but I 
think that would be a great 

645
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:21,720
option. 
I'd be a little hesitant with 

646
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,160
the Endorphin speed because if 
you want like it, it could 

647
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:25,600
definitely handle that. 
I'm just worried about the 

648
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,440
tapered toolbox and the slightly
higher drop. 

649
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,400
But yeah I think speed would be 
fine. 

650
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,120
Tries it but I think based on 
not wanting something too mushy 

651
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,280
the claw monster hyper I think 
is a great idea. 

652
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,000
I'm surprised we came to the 
same. 

653
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,480
I thought, you're just going to 
choose it just because you love 

654
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:45,880
that shoe. 
And then I realized, Oh no, I 

655
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,240
think that's the best option. 
I don't know there's an actual 

656
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,760
reason for it, but that was that
was in my head. 

657
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,320
I'm just like, but it's, it's so
contrasting right between like, 

658
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,960
oh, I'm used to running in these
shoes that have 25 to 30mm of 

659
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,080
stack, right? 
Like give me something that's 

660
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,160
similar that's above 40. 
About 100%. 

661
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:04,840
Yeah. 
So that's like where the 

662
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:06,520
question it's a little bit it 
was. 

663
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:07,440
Great. 
No that. 

664
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:08,880
Was not, but it's good. 
It makes us think. 

665
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:10,000
Yep. 
All right. 

666
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,480
So Jeff asked the sizing 
question and I remember the 

667
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,800
reading this earlier being, oh 
man, I cannot wait to get to 

668
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,280
this. 
So Jeff says, how hard and fast 

669
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,960
is the rule that you'd size up 
for marathon shoes? 

670
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,320
I did this for my first marathon
and it was also warm that day. 

671
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,520
I had no problem with my feet 
and I don't think my feet swell 

672
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,560
at all. 
I have skinny bird feet. 

673
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:28,760
You don't have to. 
Everybody has different feet, 

674
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:29,440
man. 
You don't have to. 

675
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:30,240
It's fine. 
OK. 

676
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,840
And I think a relative lack of 
vascular. 

677
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:34,240
Kind of bird. 
I don't know. 

678
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,200
See. 
That's the reliability and 

679
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:37,720
validity of the of the 
description. 

680
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:39,280
Some birds have pretty wide 
feet. 

681
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:40,280
They. 
Do yeah. 

682
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,360
So I think a relative kind of 
lack of vascularity compared to 

683
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,400
someone with meaty looking feet 
might contribute to my perceived

684
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:51,680
lack of swelling. 
Man, the great descriptive 

685
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,400
things here. 
This is awesome, Jeff. 

686
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,800
I really appreciate. 
I'd really prefer not to size up

687
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,040
because of all the go fast shoes
I've run and I always prefer the

688
00:32:58,040 --> 00:32:59,920
feel of the smaller feel of the 
smallest size. 

689
00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:02,200
I obviously feels all wrong in 
larger, larger size. 

690
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,880
Mainly the four foot rocker I'm 
in between a normal size 9/9 and

691
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,520
1/2 gives examples of Rebellion 
Pro One which I had to go half a

692
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,000
size up for because I'm also 
between 10:00 and 10:00 and a 

693
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,480
half socketed Orphan speed Pro 3
which I was able to go true to 

694
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,120
size. 
I don't know if I would have 

695
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:19,560
been able to do that for a 
marathon. 

696
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,160
Andrea usually has to go up a 
half size and the DDS 2 can be 

697
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,680
sent 9 which is pretty similar 
and says love the show, 

698
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,760
Greetings from Germany. 
Thanks Jeff, we appreciate it. 

699
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,200
David, you, you OK if I take a 
quick early shot at this? 

700
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:34,680
Go for it. 
I would say that's not a hard 

701
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,080
and fast rule. 
I would say that you need to 

702
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,760
wear shoes that fit your feet. 
And then especially if you're 

703
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,600
doing a marathon, you need to 
use these shoes and know your 

704
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,960
body as to what happens on your 
long run. 

705
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,720
So the long runs are where you 
really test to see what's 

706
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,280
happened. 
How do I prepare for this? 

707
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,800
And I would say you don't have 
to size up because you're 

708
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,360
totally right. 
If you go longer than you need, 

709
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,640
the geometry of the shoe is not 
going to match you at all. 

710
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,360
At some point, if you go long 
enough, yes, if your feet 

711
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,880
definitely swell, that might be 
worth handling a little bit of 

712
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,639
early on. 
But it's not worth it if it 

713
00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:12,239
causes you problems because you 
want the shoe to fit the way 

714
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:13,960
it's going to get you through 
the end of the race. 

715
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,639
So if you don't need to size up 
and you're finding in your long 

716
00:34:16,639 --> 00:34:18,719
runs that your feet aren't 
swelling that much and the shoes

717
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,040
still fitting fine, I wouldn't 
do it. 

718
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,560
It's it's really dependent on 
it's, it's not a hard and fast 

719
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,000
rule, although people like to 
say it. 

720
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,520
This goes into our conversation 
earlier about absolutes, that 

721
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,920
there are no major absolutes. 
It's, it's what does your body 

722
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:33,719
do? 
And there's some people that 

723
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,360
this happens to, but not 
everyone. 

724
00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:37,960
So you don't have to size up for
a marathon. 

725
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,280
Ultra marathons might be a 
different story because I don't 

726
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,679
care who you are, you can get 
some foot changes in swelling. 

727
00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:45,679
That's just how it goes. 
You're going 100 miles, that's a

728
00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:47,320
little different. 
Or you're going to have a couple

729
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:49,480
pairs of shoes that you're going
to rotate between. 

730
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,719
So that's how it goes. 
But for a marathon, that's not a

731
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:54,960
hard and fast rule. 
You need to find out what fits 

732
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,520
for you. 
And you might be able to go up 

733
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,720
to 9 1/2 in certain shoes that 
just fit short, like the 

734
00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:03,040
Rebellion Pearl one. 
Other ones you might not have 

735
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,280
to. 
So I that's my thoughts. 

736
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,320
David, what are yours? 
As you're the one who done all 

737
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,160
the great marathons. 
So what do you think? 

738
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,160
Yeah. 
All like what, two or three of 

739
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:13,160
them? 
Hey, they're they're great. 

740
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,400
I mean, I don't, I don't want to
ever or do another one, so you 

741
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,400
know. 
Dude, I don't know if I'm doing 

742
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:21,520
another one at this point. 
Maybe, maybe I will, I don't 

743
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,000
know. 
A marathon can be fun. 

744
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,000
The the distance is a weird 
distance where if it goes well 

745
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,160
it is like it's nice. 
Yeah, if. 

746
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:35,840
You know, if it goes well, like 
ironically my PR, like we wanted

747
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:40,880
to run that pretty safe, ran it 
pretty safe, time was good and I

748
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,400
was happy. 
Everything was great. 

749
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,520
You know, I ate enchiladas very 
shortly after that race. 

750
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:50,040
Like I was chilling and like, 
and then Fast forward, you know 

751
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:54,080
what, 5-6 months later, maybe a 
little bit later at CIM, I go 

752
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,880
for a faster time and I blow up 
and it's not as fun. 

753
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,640
And so it's like now you're just
wrecked the whole day and you're

754
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:05,320
not happy with your performance.
So it's just like wrecks for a 

755
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,080
week. 
So I don't know, Marathon is 

756
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,400
such an interesting distance. 
That is a tangent we don't need 

757
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:14,880
to go on, but it can't be really
fun anyways. 

758
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:17,280
No, I don't follow that rule at 
all. 

759
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,600
I just stay true to size. 
The only time that rule applies 

760
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,120
is if you are wearing an Adidas 
Audios Pro 4. 

761
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,080
Could that be my answer? 
No. 

762
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,040
The answer's totally right 
because it's it's just it's my 

763
00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:34,440
our point exactly. 
If the shoe fits slightly short,

764
00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:37,000
then you're definitely not going
to want that to wear that from 

765
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,400
there are certain shoes that you
just naturally that if you're in

766
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,600
between sizes, some of them are 
going to have to go up, some of 

767
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,360
you have to go down. 
That one fit fit me 1/2 size 

768
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:45,680
short. 
I did fine for shorter 

769
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,440
distances, but it wrecked my toe
giving you the size 10 I had. 

770
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,400
It was a beautiful fit. 
So it's just like it. 

771
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,360
It depends on your foot, depends
on the shoe. 

772
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,480
Yeah, I will say to most uppers 
have a little bit of stretch to 

773
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,320
them. 
You know if you're not the type 

774
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,480
to like you know vice grip the 
laces down like they will have a

775
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,120
little bit of expansion. 
So like for me, I've never had 

776
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:12,840
an issue with that over any long
runs of 20 plus miles and or 

777
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:17,600
marathon racing. 
Yeah, I've just never had an 

778
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,360
issue with that. 
So if the shoe fits well, you've

779
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,920
taken a long runs, you trust it,
just wear it. 

780
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,800
I, I, I'm not like, like you 
said too, when you go up in 

781
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,200
size, sometimes the rocker 
doesn't fit you very well. 

782
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,680
And that was actually the case, 
I think with the Audios Evo Pro 

783
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:38,000
one that you sent me where it 
just didn't quite line up as 

784
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:39,520
well. 
Where I'm like, I could see this

785
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,240
being really good, but I, I'm 
just kind of climbing out of the

786
00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:45,040
shoe a little bit, like my heels
moving around a little bit. 

787
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,400
It's too big, right. 
But that is 1/2 size up from 

788
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,760
what I normally wear. 
So that's a great example right 

789
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:53,400
there. 
Should I go up a half size just 

790
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,440
'cause I'm running a marathon? 
No, you know, do they like look 

791
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,360
at how it fits you? 
There's been races that I've 

792
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,760
raced in half marathon at size 9
just cause the shoe fit me well 

793
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,320
you know? 
Granted it was a sample shoe and

794
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:13,240
there's only they only give you 
size nines, but that might have 

795
00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:15,520
to get redacted. 
I had to ask for permission on 

796
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,200
that one, no? 
I talked about that in recent 

797
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,360
episode that size 9 is usually 
sample size. 

798
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:20,720
So that's that's not that's not 
me. 

799
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,040
That's across the There are 
certain certain. 

800
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,000
Companies. 
The fact that I ran in one 

801
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,720
that's. 
You didn't say who it was. 

802
00:38:27,720 --> 00:38:29,440
Like people? 
Didn't say who it was. 

803
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,520
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
You'd have to really, really 

804
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,160
know me to know which race that 
was, yeah. 

805
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,920
Yeah, not violating any NDA's, 
but yeah, the hard and fast 

806
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:38,600
rule. 
So find what fits for you. 

807
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,840
All right, so I'm going to 
summarize the next one and it's 

808
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,560
from Nicole Says new listener 
love on the podcast. 

809
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,360
Looking for some expert advice. 
It sounds like Nicole's been 

810
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,360
dealing with what's what's 
called a Morton's neuroma. 

811
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,840
And for those that don't know, a
neuroma is a growth out of the 

812
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,160
nerve and they are very frequent
to happen in the more in the 

813
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,000
periphery. 
So like hands, feet. 

814
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,640
Morton's typically happens 
between the 3rd and 4th 

815
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,160
metatarsal. 
So like of your foot, like I'm 

816
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:04,800
pretending these are like my 
toes. 

817
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,880
For those of you watching the 
long bones in your foot, they 

818
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:09,560
can tip. 
It can typically occur between 

819
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,600
there. 
We are not 100% sure why they 

820
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,360
happen. 
There's some theories that maybe

821
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,240
it's because you're wearing 
narrow shoes or there's 

822
00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:18,520
compression because tissues 
usually grow out in response to 

823
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:19,960
stress. 
That's been some of the theory, 

824
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:23,480
but we don't really know. 
Certain people tend to be more 

825
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,280
at risk for them than others, 
and we're still trying to 

826
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,640
understand who that is. 
And there's some emerging 

827
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,160
research on this. 
But has more neuroma. 

828
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:32,560
Their podiatrist put the brakes 
on the running. 

829
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:34,520
They've had a steroid shot that 
didn't do much and they're 

830
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,720
trying to spacers and they're 
wondering if we have an 

831
00:39:37,720 --> 00:39:40,560
experience with this and do we 
treat anybody, which the answer 

832
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:42,760
is yes, treat people with this 
all the time. 

833
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,480
Any suggestions for coping with 
it or managing it? 

834
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,480
And she's looking to kind of 
understand shoe wise, what might

835
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,720
work better from a wider, more 
foot friendly fit that can keep 

836
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:56,000
her running. 
So, David, what do you think So 

837
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,200
the. 
My little shrimp toes part. 

838
00:39:58,400 --> 00:39:59,320
What? 
Where was that? 

839
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:01,560
Oh. 
Oh the oh the there. 

840
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,080
Turns out there are a bit too 
narrow. 

841
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:05,400
For my feet, or at least I'm 
assuming that shrimp toes. 

842
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,400
What's with add to? 
That my hammer is. 

843
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,440
AKA my little shrimp toes. 
We have skinny bird feet. 

844
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:12,840
Meaty. 
Looking feet and shrimp toes. 

845
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:15,360
What an. 
Episode, yeah. 

846
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,760
So what do you think? 
If you guys don't know, we're 

847
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:21,720
scrolling. 
Through this live time and as 

848
00:40:21,720 --> 00:40:24,080
we're doing this block is nice a
lot of times to get these. 

849
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,640
And and put them in a Google Doc
that we go through. 

850
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,640
Try to figure out the good ones.
But what do you think? 

851
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:31,640
Yeah, I think it's interesting, 
right? 

852
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:35,800
Because I mean, Nicole brought 
up the Saucony, not Saucony, my 

853
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,600
goodness, the Super blast, ASIC 
Super blast. 

854
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:40,400
And it's like all the hype, 
right? 

855
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,000
But it's been a little bit too 
narrow. 

856
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,920
Put a little bit of pressure a 
lot of times with nerves, One 

857
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,520
thing that we know is you don't 
really want, I say nerves have 

858
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,080
tempers. 
That's kind of a common thing 

859
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,240
that I'll say is they can be a 
little bit sensitive and you get

860
00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:54,360
them mad, they stay mad for a 
little while. 

861
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,120
And one of the things that gets 
them mad is putting a bunch of 

862
00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,800
pressure on them. 
And so a lot of people do 

863
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,000
respond well or taking some 
pressure off of them. 

864
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,480
But the honest truth is, is 
finding what works for you. 

865
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,120
And then I wish that I wish I 
could give you a more direct 

866
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,760
answer, but some people do 
really well with like metatarsal

867
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,560
pads, others it makes it worse. 
You know, it's, it's really hard

868
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,160
to say. 
But I will say, if you have had 

869
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,120
some success with having a 
little bit of width and having 

870
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:22,120
some pressure off of it, just 
ride that feeling. 

871
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:23,920
And there are shoes out there 
that do that. 

872
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,080
You can look for shoes that have
a little bit more volume on 

873
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,240
them. 
You can look at something like a

874
00:41:29,240 --> 00:41:31,840
Topo athletic or an ultra that 
have a little bit of a wider toe

875
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:33,400
box. 
Some of the New Balance models 

876
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:38,480
have slightly wider toe boxes 
and if that's something you're 

877
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:39,800
interested in, you can always 
look at it. 

878
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:41,800
Even some of the Brooks models 
haven't been too bad lately. 

879
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,840
But looking at the things that 
do agree with you and, and 

880
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,320
trusting those feelings and 
trying them out and, and going 

881
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,320
with them, if it feels good, 
don't don't break it right? 

882
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,920
Like you don't want to irritate 
the nerve. 

883
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,120
Nerves need three things. 
They need blood space and 

884
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:04,080
movement, which means not, you 
know, not moving at all is not 

885
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,160
really an option unless you're 
irritating it because you got to

886
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,280
get some movement in there. 
You need blood flow and you need

887
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,400
space. 
So I think the suggestions you 

888
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,840
made are really good for getting
some space, but then you got to 

889
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,440
be able to move appropriately, 
get tissue moving, and those are

890
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,600
some great options. 
All right, I'm going to jump a 

891
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:21,440
little bit. 
So we're going to go to Kim, who

892
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,760
writes the love the show 
definitely has encouraged the 

893
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:26,600
shoe buying habits. 
Oh no. 

894
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:29,440
I'm sorry my bad, our bad. 
This is. 

895
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,440
Supposed to be educational, 
teach you how to better choose 

896
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,800
shoes, but you know, hey 
whatever you know floats your 

897
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:35,480
belt. 
It says do a fair amount of 

898
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,760
running on my treadmill, 
anywhere from 30 to 60 minutes a

899
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,440
few times a week when I can't 
get outside for whatever reason.

900
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,120
Are there shoes that are better 
for this kind of running? 

901
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,200
I don't have any specific issues
or injury history. 

902
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,480
I've been wearing Nova blouse 
without issue, but wondering if 

903
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,480
something else might might be 
better. 

904
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:51,920
Thanks, David. 
What do you think? 

905
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:53,600
Not having any issues with the 
Nova? 

906
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:54,680
Blast. 
Keep running with the Nova 

907
00:42:54,720 --> 00:42:56,440
Blast. 
Don't. 

908
00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:00,080
Don't go looking for. 
Something that isn't there is my

909
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,640
my initial read on that. 
Not necessarily. 

910
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:07,760
I will say with treadmills, if 
you're going at higher speeds, 

911
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:09,440
this is a little bit more 
anecdotal. 

912
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,200
I don't have hard evidence on 
this. 

913
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,520
Running on a treadmill is 
slightly different because you 

914
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,480
have the belt moving and when 
the belt's moving and it's 

915
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,840
moving a little bit quicker, 
some people, again, some people,

916
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,120
not all people, that stride 
might open up a little bit 

917
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,360
longer than what it normally 
does. 

918
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:28,360
You might have a little bit more
hip extension. 

919
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:32,200
And so like shoes that are 
really rockered on some 

920
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:36,200
treadmills might be if you're 
sensitive to having hip flex 

921
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,720
restrains or having your stride 
opened up, that could be 

922
00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:41,400
something that you could be a 
little wary of. 

923
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,640
I'm one of those people. 
So if I have a highly rockered 

924
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,480
shoe on a treadmill, I can be 
sensitive to that. 

925
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,680
With that said, if you're going.
The other way there's not. 

926
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,040
Really much to like, like just 
go with what's comfortable you 

927
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,400
like it that she's working, it's
not hurting you keep going. 

928
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,520
Like the only consideration I 
can really think of is that I 

929
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:03,920
would say the only thing I would
also think. 

930
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,200
About is just making sure you 
have a shoe with good traction. 

931
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,200
I had a patient. 
This is also anecdotal that 

932
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,080
someone slid out. 
Yeah, well. 

933
00:44:10,240 --> 00:44:12,280
I forgot. 
What the shoe was I can't 

934
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,120
remember, but like like hitting 
my head against. 

935
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:16,720
Was it an old treadmill? 
Because even. 

936
00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:19,360
Treadmills have a little bit of 
traction on the they do, but for

937
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,400
whatever shoe they were. 
Running and I why am I 

938
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,960
forgetting this? 
It just had terrible traction on

939
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:27,080
the bottom and they slipped off 
like as they fatigued and they 

940
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:28,200
started to move a little bit 
more. 

941
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,160
They ended up slipping like a 
kind of wrong place, wrong time,

942
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:32,960
got tired. 
But that be more thing. 

943
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,080
Just make sure you actually on 
the platform like. 

944
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:38,000
The belt didn't slip. 
No, they slipped on the belt. 

945
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,200
The belt will move. 
That might have been it 

946
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,560
actually. 
But I think it was, no, the belt

947
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:44,360
was fine. 
It's just for whatever reason, 

948
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:46,640
the shoe was already feeling a 
little slippery, and then as 

949
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,720
they got more fatigued, they end
up slipping off. 

950
00:44:49,720 --> 00:44:52,280
My goodness. 
So yeah, just make sure this 

951
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,520
shoe has good traction. 
Nova Blast actually has fairly 

952
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:58,440
solid grip on it, so I'd say 
yeah, I wouldn't overthink this.

953
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,520
The only thing I would I would 
tell you is that you know what, 

954
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:03,680
if you're using this for a race 
or whatever, just make sure 

955
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,120
you're training in the shoes you
plan to utilize and you're most 

956
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,000
comfortable. 
But outside of that, there's no 

957
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,120
evidence that I know of that 
suggests that you should use a 

958
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:14,720
specific shoe for treadmills. 
So no, I would not overthink it 

959
00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:16,840
and we're not going to encourage
the shoe buying, just you're 

960
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:19,280
doing fine, just deal with that.
That's good. 

961
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,040
All right, all right, next. 
One here comes from Parker. 

962
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:25,720
Shout out Parker, thanks for all
the content. 

963
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,080
Thank you for listening. 
I just listened through the 

964
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,800
episode on shin splints from 
about two years ago. 

965
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,600
Yes, people are still listening 
to episodes. 

966
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,560
That is awesome. 
From everything you've said and 

967
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:43,440
what I've seen elsewhere, I 
believe I have mild PTSS, not 

968
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,960
PTSDPTSS that randomly will 
flare up. 

969
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:50,560
I took 10 days off and ran a few
runs pain free. 

970
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,800
Then I had a mild flare. 
I take a couple days off, run a 

971
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,520
couple runs, pain free again and
repeat. 

972
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,320
Haha. 
The episode said not to run on 

973
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,960
any pain when it's a bone slash 
stress fracture. 

974
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:06,400
Are there any guidelines to give
you give for running through 

975
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,880
PTSS pain free or is mild pain 
OK? 

976
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,680
Like one to three out of 10? 
I've cut down my running days 

977
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,720
and a half and short and each 
run and only go easy. 

978
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,640
Parker, if you haven't seen. 
A medical professional, I would 

979
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,040
definitely do this because this 
is the, the challenge for us is 

980
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:23,920
that we since we haven't 
examined you, we're going to 

981
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:25,280
have to make a lot of 
assumptions. 

982
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:30,440
So if it's, you know, if it is 
so with the shin splint type 

983
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,800
stuff and with PTSS, it's always
a question of is it actually 

984
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:35,640
muscular? 
Is it bone? 

985
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,120
Is it perio like what is it? 
And you don't really know that 

986
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,360
until you've done a good exam. 
A lot of these diagnosis are 

987
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,400
just kind of catch all terms 
that don't really tell us 

988
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:46,640
exactly what tissue it is. 
You're totally right. 

989
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:49,880
If it's a bone stress injury, 
honestly, and if you have some 

990
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,840
kind of fracture, you're going 
to need a minimum of anywhere 

991
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,520
from 4:00 to 6:00, if not 6 to 8
weeks, if not longer. 

992
00:46:55,800 --> 00:47:00,240
I was, you know, 6:00 to 8:00. 4
is so generous, I know well for 

993
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:01,080
you I. 
Mean. 

994
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:02,560
Don't. 
We're not. 

995
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,000
Don't use me. 
I'm a terrible patient, but no. 

996
00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:07,720
So yeah, typically it's in the 
longer time plate that you might

997
00:47:07,720 --> 00:47:10,160
even be booted up or you might 
need a maximal like you are not 

998
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,520
going to be running for six to 
eight weeks if not more 

999
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,600
depending on your healing. 
And only then when you actually 

1000
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,120
go through return to run program
showing that I literally just 

1001
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,240
presented on this. 
When you go through return to 

1002
00:47:22,240 --> 00:47:25,840
run program showing, hey, you 
can handle impacts not running, 

1003
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:27,800
but can you handle a single leg 
hop? 

1004
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:29,480
Can you handle a plyometric 
progression? 

1005
00:47:29,720 --> 00:47:32,640
And then if you don't have 
symptoms, you can start a return

1006
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:35,760
to run type progression. 
That's typically what you need 

1007
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:37,320
to do because bones are very 
sense. 

1008
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:38,560
They they're normally really 
tough. 

1009
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:41,280
But once you break them or have 
a stress fracture, you need to 

1010
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:42,480
make sure you're careful with 
that. 

1011
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:46,600
And this, this repeated episode 
makes me a little concerned if 

1012
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:50,000
it's if it's a bone stress 
injury or BSI, if it's muscular,

1013
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,440
you might just be irritating 
this and you need to actually 

1014
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:55,080
rehab this enough so that it, 
and I don't know if it's an 

1015
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,360
endurance problem with strength 
or a power issue. 

1016
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:00,240
You just might need to address 
it. 

1017
00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:03,080
If it's muscular, you can get 
away with a little bit of 

1018
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:04,920
discomfort. 
A little bit of pain is OK, 

1019
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:06,440
right? 
All the clinical guidelines are 

1020
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:09,000
a little bit OK, as long as it's
not getting way worse. 

1021
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:12,080
But bone stress injuries, 
they're they're very strict, 

1022
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:16,640
like no pain, no pain with that.
So in that there, there is 

1023
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:21,000
actually a return to run study 
on bone stress injuries that 

1024
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,400
again, hold pretty careful to 
that. 

1025
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:27,240
So it sounds like you need to go
get checked out, David. 

1026
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:29,360
I agree. 
No 1000. 

1027
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:31,720
Percent I I'm not sure I have 
much to add to that. 

1028
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:34,880
That's no, no, no. 
You did a great job of 

1029
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,640
summarizing it. 
I mean, you can really looking 

1030
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:43,040
at yeah, if it's a true bone 
injury, you got to let it heal. 

1031
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:46,520
One thing I tell people a lot of
times is we can't cheat 

1032
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:51,720
Physiology, You know, maybe in 
some small microscopic way we 

1033
00:48:51,720 --> 00:48:53,920
can expedite things. 
And even in that case, we're 

1034
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,400
talking, we're talking days, not
weeks, right? 

1035
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:58,960
Like the general timeline will 
stay the same. 

1036
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:03,920
And so it's, yeah, if it's a 
bone injury, you got to give it 

1037
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,000
time. 
If it's tenderness, you can find

1038
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,880
other ways to kind of unload it 
and kind of see how it goes. 

1039
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:11,520
You got to listen to your body, 
but you got to keep it in the 

1040
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:15,120
low realm as far as pain goes. 
It's got to be a manageable 

1041
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:16,640
amount. 
If the thing spikes up on you 

1042
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:18,520
every couple days, like, no, 
don't do that. 

1043
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:24,240
That's a very that's not a fun 
pathway to take and it usually 

1044
00:49:24,240 --> 00:49:25,800
doesn't lead to anything 
productive. 

1045
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:30,600
But Brian asks, can you discuss 
the logic slash physics of 

1046
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:34,440
having a tempo or interval shoe?
I understand the logic of having

1047
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:38,040
a race shoe to help you go 
faster on race day, but does a 

1048
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:41,680
shoe that helps you go faster 
for workouts reduce the gain 

1049
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:45,800
from doing the workouts? 
Particularly if the workouts are

1050
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:48,720
pace based as opposed to heart 
rate based? 

1051
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:53,080
Analogy wise, I'm thinking of a 
basketball, basketball, baseball

1052
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:55,800
that way. 
Sorry, this is covered 

1053
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:58,640
previously and I missed it. 
We've never covered this before.

1054
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:02,600
Have we very, very loosely. 
Like with like super shoes for 

1055
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:05,600
workouts kind of things. 
We've kind of we've kind of 

1056
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,160
talked about it, but not really.
So let's say, what do you think 

1057
00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:08,760
I think? 
This. 

1058
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:11,280
You're a great person to take a 
first stab at this. 

1059
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:12,840
So what do you think? 
Yeah. 

1060
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:15,560
No, it's a really. 
Interesting question and I think

1061
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:19,680
it really comes down and I hate 
to say it depends because we 

1062
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:23,200
always say it depends, but it 
depends on what your goals are 

1063
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:25,880
for using the shoe. 
Like we again, we always say 

1064
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:29,960
shoes are tools, right? 
If the goal is to be pushing 

1065
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:33,400
race pace and create a type of 
adaptation, there's nothing 

1066
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:35,600
wrong with wearing a shoe that's
a little bit more economic 

1067
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:38,560
because you're going to be 
racing in that shoe anyways. 

1068
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,320
And so if you can have a little 
bit more economy, run a faster 

1069
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:45,480
pace and push that line and kind
of just keep nudging it, then 

1070
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:47,160
great. 
But you got to be pushing that 

1071
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:51,720
line, I think, because if you're
just doing submaximal stuff in 

1072
00:50:51,720 --> 00:50:54,320
stuff that is more economic and 
you're never really pushing to 

1073
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:58,520
that threshold, then the economy
kind of goes out the window when

1074
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:01,920
you go to actually use it versus
like using something that's less

1075
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:04,880
economic at the same pace or 
same heart rate, whatever. 

1076
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:08,080
In both situations, the metrics 
probably still line up somewhat.

1077
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:12,560
You probably get a little bit 
more out of it at sub maximal 

1078
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:16,080
loads doing the less economic 
version and then going to 

1079
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:18,040
something that's more economic 
for a maximal effort. 

1080
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:22,520
But if you need nothing but sub 
maximal efforts in and sub 

1081
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:25,160
maximal, I guess I should 
probably define that. 

1082
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:29,560
I'm looking at more kind of like
lighter tempo stuff. 

1083
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:34,280
We're not talking hard intervals
at like 80 to even like 90% VO 2

1084
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:36,720
Max, you know, 5K and under kind
of pace. 

1085
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,520
Well, VO5K is even over 90% 
shoot. 

1086
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:45,240
We're we're talking like 
manageable paces here, like a 

1087
00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:47,640
little bit slower than marathon 
pace probably. 

1088
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:53,000
The honest truth is when you 
race, your percentage of what 

1089
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,000
you're operating at is pretty 
darn high. 

1090
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:57,560
That's why people pay attention 
to lactate threshold and how 

1091
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,360
much lactate you're producing 
because you are dipping into 

1092
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:03,240
those energy systems. 
It's not purely aerobic. 

1093
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:11,360
I'm going on a tangent. 
Any who there, there's logic to 

1094
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:16,160
both and I think as long as one 
isn't jeopardizing the other, 

1095
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:19,440
both situations are OK. 
So like if you're trying to 

1096
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:24,960
break four in the mile and you 
need to be used to hitting 50 

1097
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:28,680
nines and you're going to be 
racing in spikes, you should 

1098
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,840
probably be in flats or spikes 
so that your legs are used to 

1099
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:34,160
putting that much power down. 
I know this is a very niche 

1100
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:36,760
population, but it's just kind 
of, I'm using extremes to kind 

1101
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:40,720
of get a point across. 
You should probably be in 

1102
00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:42,440
something that's a little bit 
more specific to what you're 

1103
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,120
trying to do. 
Now, if the goal is to break a 

1104
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:49,240
three hour marathon or a four 
hour marathon, and you're really

1105
00:52:49,240 --> 00:52:53,160
not going to be pushing into 
those anaerobic mechanisms as 

1106
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:57,400
much, you could totally justify 
not using the more economic 

1107
00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:59,320
option of a super shoe or 
something that's a little bit 

1108
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:02,480
more tuned for workouts and 
running, something that is more 

1109
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:04,920
manageable and you're using more
aerobic source anyways, and 

1110
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:07,000
you're kind of in a submaximal 
effort. 

1111
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:09,600
And then as you create 
adaptations within that, 

1112
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,160
assuming you've practiced in the
Super shoe, you could probably 

1113
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:14,240
transition to the Super shoe 
closer to the race and have a 

1114
00:53:14,240 --> 00:53:15,520
little bit more of a greater 
outcome. 

1115
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,920
That is not a hard science. 
You know, this is 100% 

1116
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,560
anecdotal. 
We don't really have hard data 

1117
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:24,720
on this. 
I want to preface that right now

1118
00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:29,280
with what I'm saying, but I 
don't know you could. 

1119
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:31,520
Justify either you. 
Could justify either, but if 

1120
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:34,120
you're trying to run, you know, 
let's say you're trying to break

1121
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,800
again, if I go back to the four 
minute mile example here, if 

1122
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:41,080
you're trying to run sub 60s in 
your trainers and you just can't

1123
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:43,840
do it and you're dying and 
you're running 60 twos. 

1124
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:45,600
Well, even though you're in 
trainers and you're dying and 

1125
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:47,480
you're running 60 twos, that 
doesn't really help you run 50 

1126
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:49,720
ninths. 
You know what I mean? 

1127
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:53,160
You get 1200 into a mile. 
Anyone who runs middle distance 

1128
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:56,440
will tell you like that. 
That starts getting really hard 

1129
00:53:56,440 --> 00:54:00,240
regardless. 
And so like, harder isn't always

1130
00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:03,640
better, you know, sometimes it 
is better to go with the easier 

1131
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:06,120
option if it means you're 
pushing that needle for that 

1132
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:08,800
higher performance mark. 
And that can be for the marathon

1133
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:10,520
too, you know, like I don't want
that to. 

1134
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:13,840
This is not exclusive to the 
faster paces and distances. 

1135
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:16,360
I think you just have to ask 
yourself what the goal is of 

1136
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:20,000
what you're using and, and where
you're at with that. 

1137
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:23,400
Hopefully that answers the 
question. 

1138
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:25,240
Does that answer the question? 
I think it does. 

1139
00:54:25,240 --> 00:54:27,200
Can I also take a stab at it? 
Yeah. 

1140
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:28,960
So one of the things that I 
always. 

1141
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:32,000
Think about like I because I was
a late start to cross country 

1142
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:35,000
and track, I really started my 
Senior High School and then 

1143
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:38,120
jumped into college and I didn't
know anything about and so I 

1144
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:41,200
would do everything in trainers.
And then I later on started 

1145
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:43,800
geeking out about shoes. 
I'm like, oh, I totally want to 

1146
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,520
have a lighter shoe for workouts
because I want to get used to 

1147
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:48,440
racing to what I'm going to be 
racing in. 

1148
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:51,200
And there is actually some 
evidence for that that, you 

1149
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:54,680
know, you do tend to adapt most 
of the things you train in. 

1150
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:58,520
However, there that's not 
without consequences. 

1151
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,160
So the more time you spend in 
super shoes, there is going to 

1152
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:03,720
be some degree of less benefit 
you're going to get from them. 

1153
00:55:03,720 --> 00:55:06,680
Whereas if you train other shoes
and go to them, the other shoes,

1154
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:09,000
the more traditional trainers or
what have even a lightweight 

1155
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:12,760
trainer is going to give you a 
may give you a little bit more 

1156
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:16,360
training benefit. 
But you know, you have to decide

1157
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:19,000
what are the, what are the pros 
and cons of that? 

1158
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:23,240
So you know, the trainer may 
leave you more sore afterwards 

1159
00:55:23,240 --> 00:55:25,760
and there is more muscle damage 
that happens with that stuff 

1160
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:28,720
versus the lighter weight or the
the Super shoe is going to 

1161
00:55:28,720 --> 00:55:31,200
reduce that. 
So you it's not just having more

1162
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:33,280
stimulus is a good thing. 
It's finding out works for you. 

1163
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:36,240
But if you've never run in your 
race shoe and you suddenly put 

1164
00:55:36,240 --> 00:55:39,240
it on to go do a marathon, your 
risk of injury is significantly 

1165
00:55:39,240 --> 00:55:42,520
high because you did the number 
one big no, no is you, you 

1166
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:44,560
change to something the last 
minute that you have no 

1167
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:47,920
experience in. 
So a temple or interview 

1168
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:50,320
interval shoe is a great shoe 
that kind of balances the 

1169
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:52,680
between those two if you can 
afford it, because you're 

1170
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:54,520
starting to ask for three 
different pairs of shoes. 

1171
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:57,920
But it's a shoe that you can use
specifically going fast without 

1172
00:55:57,920 --> 00:55:59,840
being as aggressive as a super 
shoe. 

1173
00:55:59,920 --> 00:56:01,880
So a lot of super shoes, yeah, 
they're very aggressive. 

1174
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:05,000
And we're lucky that a lot of us
can handle running in a lot. 

1175
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:08,360
Are there maybe consequences 
that maybe we'll, we'll find out

1176
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:11,080
in a couple of years is that we 
do all this testing stuff, but 

1177
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:13,840
the the lightweight trainer or 
the temporal interval shoe is 

1178
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,880
the nice balance between the two
of them that lets you go a 

1179
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:18,760
little faster because there's 
also a speed component. 

1180
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:23,040
Like going faster isn't 
necessarily good for every part 

1181
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:25,760
of your body if you're wearing a
heavier shoe, right? 

1182
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:28,120
There's a lot of load that goes 
through trying to move that kind

1183
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:30,880
of shoe that might put certain 
tissues at risk and then 

1184
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:33,240
suddenly transitioning to a 
lighter shoe all of a sudden 

1185
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:37,040
also put stuff risk speed and 
something really fast can put a 

1186
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:39,800
very high load through muscles, 
especially hamstring. 

1187
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:43,400
It's not uncommon, like 
sprinters or runners who have it

1188
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:46,280
where their spikes in a while go
to do this stuff and then 

1189
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:47,880
suddenly like, oh, my hamstring,
like half. 

1190
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:50,360
It's like, well, because you're 
not used to moving at that speed

1191
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,280
because with a heavier shoe, 
you're going to produce more 

1192
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,360
force, but you're not going to 
move as fast. 

1193
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:57,440
And that speed creates a 
different load. 

1194
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:02,160
So the tempo interval shoe, if 
you're running faster or you 

1195
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:04,880
just want something to make you 
feel lighter so the workout goes

1196
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:07,840
through a little like mentally 
easier is kind of where that 

1197
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:09,600
balances out really, really 
well. 

1198
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:11,760
A lot of people will just have 
their trainer and their super 

1199
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:13,840
shoe and do all their workouts 
and their super shoe, what have 

1200
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:15,920
you. 
But if maybe the Super shoes not

1201
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:19,240
something you can run in all the
time and stay healthy, that's 

1202
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:22,080
where maybe some of these tempo 
or interval shoes might do well.

1203
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:24,720
And I'm also going to argue a 
lot of the tempo or interview 

1204
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:27,520
shoes actually make much better 
half and full marathon racers 

1205
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:30,640
for a lot of people that maybe 
those super shoes aren't 

1206
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:33,600
appropriate for because they're 
not designed for a lot of people

1207
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:39,280
running a three hour, 334, five 
hour marathon or what have you. 

1208
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,520
So I'm not trying to be speedist
or say, oh, you can't wear like 

1209
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:45,600
if it feels great, wear it. 
But just know that those shoes 

1210
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:48,200
aren't designed for everyone. 
And so a lot of these shoes 

1211
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:51,360
actually might be better. 
And, and you should think about 

1212
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:54,680
if you're doing faster workouts,
you want to, as best as you can,

1213
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:58,240
try to emulate what you're going
to be doing on race day because 

1214
00:57:58,240 --> 00:57:59,800
you need to get used to that 
stimulus. 

1215
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:03,400
Like if you have a super shoe, 
you need to go take that on some

1216
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:05,080
long runs. 
If you're running a marathon, do

1217
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:08,760
not just like jump into the 
marathon having never worn those

1218
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:10,800
before. 
If, if you want to finish, you 

1219
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:13,720
need to use that tool and learn 
how to use that tool. 

1220
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:15,840
And that's, and David mentioned 
this, they're all tools. 

1221
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:19,160
So it just depends on what tool 
you want to use and how things 

1222
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:22,080
are working for you and when you
want to use it and how you want 

1223
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:23,200
to use it. 
How's that? 

1224
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:25,040
That was great. 
Sweet. 

1225
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:28,120
All right. 
There's, there's one, there's 

1226
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:29,600
one question at the very bottom 
there. 

1227
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:31,360
Wait, which one do you? 
Oh my gosh. 

1228
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:36,880
So David asked Santa Barbara or 
Houston tacos because I just 

1229
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:39,520
went down to Houston and we 
didn't have tacos. 

1230
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:43,000
We actually had fajitas with BJ 
and Nathan and I. 

1231
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:47,120
So I don't know, I'm going to 
have to give Santa Barbara the 

1232
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:50,360
nod because I just by default 
because I have only had tacos 

1233
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:53,520
there, but I don't remember how 
they were because it's been a 

1234
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:55,640
minute. 
So I guess Santa Barbara. 

1235
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:59,040
Sorry, Houston. 
Yeah, don't don't hate me 

1236
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:02,240
because I just didn't try it. 
So they get it by default so 

1237
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:03,440
that in right before the 
episode. 

1238
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:05,160
Yeah. 
So for those of you that want. 

1239
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:07,240
More Taco content. 
I'm going to suggest you follow 

1240
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:10,240
David who's the expert on tacos 
and actually, you know, Bach. 

1241
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:12,760
Oh, we should have an episode 
between you and Bach where you 2

1242
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:15,360
meet in person and then you 
debate like where the best tacos

1243
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:16,920
are. 
Like that would be great. 

1244
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:18,400
Doctors running. 
Those tacos for. 

1245
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:20,720
Sure. 
Yeah, I go to Colombia. 

1246
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:23,840
He comes here and we just. 
Does Colombia have good tacos? 

1247
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:24,920
I don't know. 
Probably not. 

1248
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:26,360
No idea. 
I'm not going to. 

1249
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:28,160
That's Bach. 
No, yeah, I'm sorry. 

1250
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,040
An entire state stops listening 
to us. 

1251
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:34,040
Not, not. 
Colombia. 

1252
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:36,360
But South Carolina. 
Yeah. 

1253
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:38,120
South Carolina, not. 
Not Colombia. 

1254
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:39,440
The country, I'm sure. 
Yeah. 

1255
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:42,400
Sorry, I can't talk. 
Anymore I'm tired, just said 

1256
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:46,840
state, country, whatever city 
yeah by the way, fun fact, as of

1257
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:49,560
this moment, Bach is the only 
person on this team that I have 

1258
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:51,320
not met in person. 
And so we're going to have to 

1259
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:53,680
make this happen soon. 
Although he has a great way of 

1260
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:56,280
trying to to, to get out of what
we try to pull him on here. 

1261
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:58,760
So if you want to see he is 
really good so. 

1262
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:00,320
If you want to see Bach. 
On an episode? 

1263
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:02,600
Let us know. 
Comment below so we can harass 

1264
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:04,960
him and give him a hard time 
because he is a phenomenal human

1265
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:07,560
being. 
But as always, we really 

1266
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:09,280
appreciate you listening and 
hope this stuff is really 

1267
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:12,080
helpful and helps you figure out
kind of what uniquely works for 

1268
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:13,480
you. 
This is really educational 

1269
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:16,560
content. 
We don't want you to come off as

1270
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:17,960
thinking we're trying to sell 
shoes and stuff. 

1271
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:21,200
We want you to find what works 
best for you at and, and however

1272
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:23,560
that is our content is all over 
the place. 

1273
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:26,520
You can find us in various 
social media sites, Instagram, 

1274
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:29,680
Facebook, YouTube is one of our 
common really great ones. 

1275
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:32,200
LinkedIn is still blowing up and
I give back 100% credit for 

1276
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:33,480
that. 
I talk about this every single 

1277
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:35,680
time. 
If you want to see the podcast 

1278
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:39,160
past this is typically the 
recording is released generally 

1279
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:41,600
on Sunday. 
Am I doing this right? 

1280
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:44,760
It's Sunday, the Sunday 
recording release. 

1281
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:47,600
On Wednesdays, I think the video
is usually released on 

1282
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:49,800
Wednesday. 
So you can find any of the audio

1283
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:52,960
recordings on Spotify, iTunes, 
any of those places. 

1284
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:56,000
And then video can always be 
found on YouTube if you want to 

1285
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:59,400
actually see us with a video 
there. 

1286
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:02,280
As always, like I said, hope 
this helps you figure out works 

1287
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:04,800
best for you. 
And we will talk about tacos 

1288
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:06,600
next time. 
And that'll be our next episode,

1289
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:09,080
figuring out where the best 
tacos in the United States are, 

1290
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:10,320
along with where the best shows 
are.