1 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,880 Hey everyone, and welcome to Doctors Running podcast where 2 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,920 we, a group of doctors, physical therapy, talk about the art and 3 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:16,520 the sciences, things we put on our feet. 4 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:19,600 Today we have an episode with Doctor Sloss and myself, Matthew 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,160 Klein. There's a lot of big changes 6 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,040 happening right now and I'll let David start. 7 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,320 Hey, David, So what's changing in your life, if anything? 8 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,240 I mean, not too many changes per SE. 9 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,960 I, I just had my anniversary with my wife, showed it so well 10 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,320 the other week. Yeah, close to two weeks now. 11 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,840 We went to Monterey, had a great time there, got a little Pebble 12 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,120 Beach at, you know, saw that and Big Sur and that was a great 13 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:47,680 time. So I just, I went to the zoo 14 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:48,720 today. That was fun. 15 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,040 It's been a year. I can't believe that. 16 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,600 Yeah, because we were at the wedding and Regina was. 17 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,160 Like. Still was still pregnant at the 18 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,400 very, very end right before. Oh my gosh, everything's gone by 19 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,200 so quick. Yeah, yeah, it's been a year. 20 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:07,040 It was July 16th of yeah, 2023. Yeah, literally. 21 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,200 Like, less than a month before Isabella was born. 22 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:10,480 That's crazy. Yeah. 23 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:11,640 So sweet. Yeah. 24 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,200 So if for those of you listening, you're not going to 25 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,240 be able to see this, but for those of you watching might know 26 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,880 that my background or notice my background's a little different. 27 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,040 And that's because I'm officially moving out of 28 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:25,520 Southern California. And next month, mid August, Jean 29 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,800 and I are and Isabella are going to be stationed in Oregon and 30 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,600 I'm going to be teaching at George Fox University in their 31 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,480 PT program. So a lot of big changes. 32 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,640 You'll notice the shorter videos of the background will also 33 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,200 change as the not going to have access place. 34 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:41,600 I'm. I'm handing this really 35 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,080 wonderful duplex off to a friend of mine to continue renting. 36 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,640 It's been a great place for last four years. 37 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,800 So we're cleaning this place up, emptying it out, and yeah, the 38 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:52,920 next couple days will be moving out. 39 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,160 So all the shoes have either been shipped up to Oregon or 40 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,640 sitting in boxes right now waiting to get shipped. 41 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,440 And so yeah, there's no shoe rack in the back anymore. 42 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,600 Lots of big changes. So, yeah, So what we're going to 43 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,320 do today is also talk about something that changes some 44 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,560 stuff a little bit because, and there's nothing wrong with this, 45 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:16,600 but we've noticed that there is a plethora of plated options now 46 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,200 on the market. And there's nothing wrong with 47 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,320 plates because what plates really do is they create 48 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,320 stiffness in shoes. And stiffness can be good. 49 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:26,600 It can also be not good for certain people. 50 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,840 We know from one of the kind of the, the landmark studies from 51 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:34,800 MacLeod back in I think it was 2019 or 2020 that determined 52 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,880 that different people respond differently to to stiffness in 53 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:39,200 shoes. And stiffness refers to the 54 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,520 longitudinal bending of a shoe when you try to roll through it. 55 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,080 How much resistance is it? Is there to bend? 56 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,800 How much kind of does the shoe reform after you bend it? 57 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,160 That there's some people respond really well to more stiff shoes 58 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,200 and some stiff shoes also get in not just longitudinal, but like 59 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:56,960 side to side lateral bending as well. 60 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,080 That actually can work really well for people like myself that 61 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,560 maybe need a little bit more rigidity and more stability in 62 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,600 it that that can be really good for other people. 63 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,880 It also can be not as good as the shoes may not line up with 64 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:11,160 the mechanics of their foot and ankle or their knee over their 65 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:12,600 hip. And it can just be a little 66 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,120 irritating. Or the bigger thing is you just 67 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,280 get used to having that level of stiffness. 68 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,800 And if you decide to change into a different sheet that doesn't 69 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,640 have and all of a sudden there's a greater kind of adjustment 70 00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:26,320 period that's needed. What David and I have been 71 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:30,320 talking about the last probably what 8 to like over a year is 72 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:34,240 wondering, hey, and this is kind of inspired a little bit more 73 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,240 inspired by just a Maddie's study that looked at like super 74 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,840 shoes versus traditional flats. And the fact that if you train 75 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,440 in traditional flats, you know, the like that he used like 76 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:44,960 waffle erasers, if I remember correctly, which there's nothing 77 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,440 to minimal racing shoe that there's not a lot, not a lot of 78 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,520 those anymore. But if you train in something 79 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,480 like that, yeah, you're going to get more sore, but you actually 80 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,120 get more benefit. Like you get stronger, you get 81 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,320 more economy improvements. You are a heck of a lot more 82 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,120 sore, but you get a lot more out of those shoes. 83 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,520 Whereas some of these, and it's not just the plates, it's the 84 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,720 Super foams, all those combinations you may not get as 85 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,480 much from each workout unless you push really hard. 86 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,520 So the thought was what happens if we start going back to non 87 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,480 plated shoes, using those as our major training shoes and then, 88 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:19,240 you know, slowly working our way into our racing shoe, our super 89 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:23,360 shoe or what have you over the season of training so that you 90 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,200 get the most when you need to. And then as you're starting to 91 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,800 peek, you have a shoe that's actually helping you recover a 92 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:30,800 little better, not as much tissue damage when you just need 93 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:35,160 to be sharpening up. Did I miss anything, David, on 94 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:36,200 that? And I'm curious about your 95 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,520 personal journey, about what you started going. 96 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,120 Hey, maybe I should be doing more of my training in non 97 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:45,160 plated shoes. Yeah, I think you hit that 98 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,440 really well because that was kind of the basis of our 99 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:52,240 conversation, right. And like, I think pretty much 100 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,640 everyone at Doctors of Running has a little bit of a scientific 101 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,480 heart and we're kind of willing to go through the process even 102 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,960 on our self and be like, let's just test this out. 103 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,080 We might not have, you know, raw or hard objective data on it, 104 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,120 but we can see how we feel practicing certain principles 105 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:12,680 and trying things out. And I'm a little bit of a skewed 106 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:16,760 subject here because I did have that foot injury after the 107 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,440 incident at the end of track season there. 108 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,200 So I have been just kind of slowly building mileage. 109 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:28,160 I did have AII, was doing pretty good for about 3-4 weeks, then I 110 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,960 actually had kind of a recurrent pain because of a shoe that I 111 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:36,160 will not name on air. For those of you that don't 112 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,040 know, like it is great to get a lot of shoes. 113 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,320 There are inherent risk for jumping from shoe to shoe and 114 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,400 sometimes you don't know what you're going to get into and 115 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,200 then things pop up, which is great being physical therapist 116 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,400 and knowing how to manage stuff. But even then there are certain 117 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:50,480 injury timelines like, well, I just pissed this off. 118 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,680 This is the way it goes. So we are not immune. 119 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,800 We do our best to we we live by the stuff that we tell you, but 120 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,120 everybody get injured and that that we are part of that list. 121 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,880 Yeah, I was so pissed. I I had like just started 122 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,120 feeling pretty good again and then I ran on that shoe like 2 123 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,040 days and then I was like crap. I could barely walk. 124 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,120 I shouldn't laugh at that, sorry that's so rude. 125 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:13,400 You're good, man. I mean, we've, we've known each 126 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:14,880 other a long time. I think we can. 127 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,520 We can laugh at those things. David will get me back by, he'll 128 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,240 do. If, if these shoes were Anba 129 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,360 team, what would they be? And I'll just be totally lost. 130 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,920 Yeah, yeah. If this shoe was in sports ball, 131 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,360 which which ball? Yeah, would it be sporting? 132 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:32,880 Yeah, I would just. Go. 133 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:36,840 I liked it that I can call that an OG reference now for the 134 00:06:36,840 --> 00:06:38,800 listeners that have been around for all 200 plus. 135 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:43,840 Episodes, yeah, but no, I actually did have one, one kind 136 00:06:43,840 --> 00:06:47,480 of, I think moment of success there, even though I shouldn't 137 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,520 have done it. I So I went on the vacation, you 138 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,320 know, for a week and I didn't really run that much. 139 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:56,360 You know, we had a lot of walking, but I didn't really 140 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,320 run. First day I got back, I 141 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,320 immediately hit a workout. My coach was not happy with me. 142 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,520 I just hopped in with one of my teammates that was not on my 143 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,280 schedule. I just wanted to hop in, but 144 00:07:06,840 --> 00:07:11,520 basically was running about half marathon pace, probably faster 145 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:15,360 than half marathon pace for me right now, maybe right around my 146 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:20,760 PR and for a few miles. And in theory, with the current 147 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:28,880 level of fitness I'm in, I I'm not there, you know, and but I 148 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:33,440 did put on the meta speed edge Paris and I hadn't worn a super 149 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,240 shoe And you know, I've done some light workouts, but they 150 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,120 were all in trainers. You know, I didn't do anything 151 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,160 in any flats for a little while now. 152 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,600 The the most minimal I got was the Hyperion GTS. 153 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:49,120 So which is, you know, you can make the argument that's getting 154 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,880 down there a little bit, but. In today's market, yeah, for. 155 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:54,760 Sure. In in today's market, yeah, not 156 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,560 by like old standards where it's like an Adidas Hajio or 157 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,440 something for the listeners, if you know what that is. 158 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:03,400 You're my friend. That she was a GOAT for the 159 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:08,320 time. But where am I going with this? 160 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:11,680 I ran in it. I crushed it. 161 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,800 I felt so good. I was not expecting to feel 162 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:16,680 good. And I'm like coming through like 163 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,320 3 miles. It's like 1540 or something and 164 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:23,720 I'm like, I'm waiting for it to hurt and I'm like, wait, like I 165 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,760 feel good and like the workout goes went a lot longer than 166 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:28,080 that. So what I did, because I knew my 167 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:29,200 coach was going to get mad at me. 168 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,520 I, I, I hit the pause button, we set it up on a loop 169 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,840 intentionally where my teammate would meet back up with me in 170 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:37,520 the case I wasn't feeling very good. 171 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,880 And so I hopped back in with him again for like another 2:00-ish 172 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:45,280 miles and then took a break. And then we had like a hard 2K. 173 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:49,160 And then the two Ki just had 1600 of, instead of the full 2K. 174 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:55,080 And, but, and this is all on road, but like I, I felt so 175 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:57,880 good, you know, and I was like, Oh, this shoe is super again, 176 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,040 you know, like I, I do feel, and this is something that we were 177 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,280 talking about a year ago, you know, where I felt like I was 178 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,560 starting to get diminishing returns on some of these super 179 00:09:06,560 --> 00:09:09,000 shoes where you're working out on them all of the time. 180 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,600 Sure, your workouts are good, sure, you're recovering pretty 181 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,600 well, but then like my race results just weren't quite 182 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,120 showing it outside of that one good marathon, you know? 183 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,000 And it's just like, I know I'm way more fit than this. 184 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,240 But like, you know, when you have a certain amount of pace, 185 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:25,440 I'll just say whatever number, let's just call it 6 minute 186 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,680 pace. 6 minute pace doesn't feel the same in a Canvara or a Vapor 187 00:09:29,680 --> 00:09:31,120 Fly. Like it's just very different, 188 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,240 you know, whatever your race stimulus is. 189 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:38,760 And if you get so used to having that feeling of the other one, 190 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,200 it's like unless you're training really hard, like you said, 191 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,360 sometimes that stimulus just doesn't quite get in there. 192 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,240 And not to say not to ever wear the Super shoes. 193 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,720 That's not at all what I am saying, but I do think if you're 194 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:54,200 kind of doing full time workouts in them all of the time, you do 195 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,400 kind of start to get some diminishing return, like kind of 196 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,960 a lack of variability in your like. 197 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,480 Yeah, I think that's the key point is that you they, they are 198 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,560 great tools, but for a lot and, and I want to give this as a 199 00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:08,960 caveat. I know that there are some 200 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,000 people out there that the Super shoes are literally the only 201 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,360 thing they can run in for various injury or whatever. 202 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,840 So I'm not talking to those individuals like keep running, 203 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:18,440 keep moving. That's that's great. 204 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:20,120 Like that's that they allow you to do that. 205 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,480 We're talking about the people that have the option to train in 206 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,440 something else, but choose to do more in the Super shoes. 207 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,360 And I think that you're right. I think that's the right term is 208 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,840 there's diminishing returns from them that they are true super 209 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,040 tools. But as your body adapts to them 210 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,400 more and more, you get less out of them unless you are pushing 211 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:41,600 yourself harder and harder and harder, which then, and This is 212 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,280 why I always think about my conversation with Rich really. 213 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,480 And as we're starting to see some very, be very careful with 214 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,080 this comment. There is some very early data 215 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:55,120 that suggests case study wise that these shoes, there seems to 216 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,440 be some athletes that have higher risk of bone stress 217 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:59,800 injuries in them. And I've always wondered if, 218 00:10:59,960 --> 00:11:02,960 yeah, your muscles feel better, but force is still force. 219 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,360 Is your, are your bones actually recovering the way they do? 220 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,560 There's always a limiting factor, like there's no free 221 00:11:08,560 --> 00:11:10,240 lunch. Like you feel better, you could 222 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,760 push harder, but are you actually recovering enough? 223 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,480 And is your body actually figuring that out or you're just 224 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,760 getting less from the workout? So yeah, the diminishing returns 225 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:22,200 is good. It's not saying don't train in 226 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,240 them because you need to get used to these before you go use 227 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:26,640 them to race. You should not be like, I've 228 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,040 never run on these and I'm just going to put them on like there 229 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,760 needs to be some key workouts beforehand that you use them 230 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:33,720 for. But yeah, the diminishing 231 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,560 returns I think is what where this conversation really 232 00:11:36,560 --> 00:11:37,840 started. Yeah. 233 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,440 And I think it was just like, I was just like feeling that 234 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,480 intrinsically and objectively, right? 235 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,760 Like you're looking at the data and you're like, this is not 236 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:46,920 like, sure, there's external factors. 237 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,040 Like I was getting married and there was other things like, you 238 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,040 know, but I just was like looking at the numbers. 239 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:54,360 I'm like, the math is in math and, you know, and it's like I 240 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:56,680 got to change something. And what's the biggest change 241 00:11:56,680 --> 00:11:58,360 that happened over that last year or two? 242 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,400 I started wearing super shoes almost every workout, you know, 243 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,680 and, and because we get them and I want to use them and I don't 244 00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:06,400 want these shoes to go to waste, you know. 245 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,800 So I mean, I always try to find really good homes for them where 246 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,280 they get used in the situation. They're not on my feet. 247 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:16,120 But at the same time, yeah, I just want to make sure they get 248 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,920 used. So I was trying to do that and I 249 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,120 think I might have shot myself in the foot a little bit, no pun 250 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,480 intended, but. Yeah, I just said, Claire, it's 251 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:26,680 like we're not saying don't use them. 252 00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:28,840 Like we obviously get these and we've got a review. 253 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,760 We got to get miles on them. But I think I'm in the same boat 254 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,640 where the last year, especially as life's been really 255 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:37,760 challenging to go, hey, you know, I'm doing these workouts. 256 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:42,720 I just don't feel like I'm getting as much out of these and 257 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,840 I don't have the energy or time to go do a 15 mile double run. 258 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:48,360 Like my workouts are going to be shorter. 259 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,920 Like I I can handle doing 2A day workouts now, but if I do 260 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,160 something like that, maybe I might use a super shoe for that 261 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,480 just because I know I'm really pushed it for a lot of workouts. 262 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,600 I realized, yeah, I'm a lot more sore, but I get a lot more out 263 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,880 of using some non plated, non super shoes that still feel 264 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,160 light. They feel fast, but it gives me 265 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,840 more of a chance to work on my normal mechanic so that when I 266 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,440 actually put the shoes on the Super shoes and I'm like, oh, 267 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,520 now I'm getting all this bound. And then that you have to kind 268 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,040 of throw pace out the window. Like when I was running not to 269 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,880 talk about this again, the the 5K stroller run I did with 270 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,360 Isabella where I was like, I'm not even paying attention to the 271 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:26,760 pace. And then I look at my watch and 272 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,120 I'm like, I'm going like five O 8 like this is, and I don't feel 273 00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:33,160 that bad. Well, to be fair, I did pull my 274 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:34,440 hamstring at the very end of the race. 275 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:36,520 So talk about, you know, increased risk there. 276 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:41,200 But it's like Davis grade one is mild, but it was like, oh, like, 277 00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:45,240 and I had started doing that. Most of the workouts with her or 278 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,360 in general were were not in super shoes. 279 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:51,520 They were in other shoes and it just gave me a bigger boost when 280 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,400 I put the shoes on. So if you really want super 281 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,640 shoes to be, I think the most effective, you need to use them 282 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:58,840 strategically and bounce them out. 283 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,040 And I also know that not everybody has this option of 284 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,560 having as many shoes as we do, but it's just a consideration to 285 00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:07,680 go, you know, maybe if you have a daily trainer or some of these 286 00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:09,520 shoes we're going to talk about, maybe some of these could be 287 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,280 your training workout shoes and then you have your super shoe 288 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:16,160 for optimal racing. So we came up with a list and 289 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,040 we're talking about this right before and of some of the shoes 290 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,200 that we view and all. A lot of these are ones that 291 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,320 we've both actually been doing workouts in. 292 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:23,920 A couple of these have been really, really good. 293 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,680 So David, what which ones do you want to start with? 294 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,760 Yeah, I, I think it'd be a good place to start, would be one 295 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,360 that a lot of people are familiar with from our podcast 296 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,520 from the last year. So this will actually be one 297 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:40,080 that's not new right now, but I think starting off with like the 298 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:44,760 Topo Cyclone 2 is a good option because this one kind of meets 299 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,120 in the middle of what we were talking about where it's a 300 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,120 little bit of a lower profile design, especially by today's 301 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:53,200 standards. But it does have a super foam 302 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,760 and has P backs in it, but there is no plate. 303 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,000 This thing is very flexible through the forefoot and 304 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,640 midfoot, very natural feeling on the foot, minimal out. 305 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,120 So just a little bit enough to grip and kind of do what you're 306 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,520 doing, but it doesn't really get in the way of your mechanics. 307 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,880 It's literally just like, you know, it's kind of like that 308 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,920 natural feeling shoe, like we talked about South, minimal, 309 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,400 lightweight, but it's responsive and it can get the job done. 310 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,800 And for me, I have found that has been an excellent track shoe 311 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:20,960 for me over the last couple years. 312 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,000 I've had three pairs of that thing, you know, and like, 313 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,400 that's been a great shoe and even on the roads it's been OK. 314 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,360 I mean, as you get longer distances, and that's another 315 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:32,240 thing that you kind of have to vet on some of these shoes is 316 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:33,720 like, what are you going to use it for? 317 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,680 It does bottom out a little bit on the longer stuff, on the long 318 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:42,880 tempo stuff, but for like short interval track, shorter tempo, 319 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,480 hill repeats, great. You know, awesome, awesome 320 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:47,800 workout shoe. I will go on record as saying 321 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,440 that I think that shoe for a lot of people that want that wide 322 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:55,880 toe box workout racer. It is one of the best ultra. 323 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:57,720 I love you. The vantage carbon 2 is great. 324 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:01,320 The durability is not so great, but if you you don't want 325 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:03,840 something that's really light and just has that kind of more 326 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,800 natural feel with the white toe box and the Super foam, the the 327 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,280 cyclone 2 is it's great. And there's a reason why we 328 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,680 chose it as one of our top shoes of last year, which by the way, 329 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,760 made a people on Reddit made a huge stink about their like 330 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:18,320 what? And like, yeah, dude, it's 331 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:19,320 great. Go check. 332 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:21,120 Go try it. Yeah, you know what I thought 333 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:22,920 was funny? As I said that, everyone thought 334 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:24,680 I was crazy. That we all did. 335 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,600 And yeah, and then you get to the very end of the year because 336 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:29,320 that shoe came out in like February. 337 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,800 I remember this because I was at Running Warehouse for that 338 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,600 thing. Yeah, And then you get to the 339 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,520 very end of the year, and now all of a sudden everyone loves 340 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,400 the shoe, you know? But it was like, at the time 341 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:40,560 they were like, what are you talking about? 342 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:42,880 Like, you can't have a Togo be a good workout shoe. 343 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,200 Like, they can't make fast shoes. 344 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:46,640 Yeah, they can. They're a shoe company. 345 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:48,960 They make shoes. They got some cool stuff coming 346 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:50,680 down the pile way too. I haven't tried that, but I'm 347 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:52,240 like, oh, that looks cool. I hope it's cool. 348 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,400 All right, so I'm going to go next as a as a classic favorite 349 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:01,000 of mine, the Soccer and Kavara 15, which I have with me and 350 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,240 this version. The version 14 was a little 351 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,880 challenging for me personally just because I just fractured my 352 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:07,440 toe. I was getting this stuff. 353 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,720 I did some light stuff in it, but I didn't have as much speed 354 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,240 options at that time because I was still coming back from 355 00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:16,480 fracture. The 15 has been a great shoe 356 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:18,880 where they actually lowered the stack height a little bit. 357 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,200 Still super light. I've seen 7 oz. 358 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,200 I've seen 6.8 ounces of very. I need to weigh mine but my 359 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,319 skills. Oh, I have I have a scale right 360 00:17:27,319 --> 00:17:28,040 here. Let's do it. 361 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,320 We'll do a live weigh in live weigh in. 362 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:34,000 I'm a men's 9.5, so just take a little bit off of whatever I 363 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:35,720 have. So I'll be curious. 364 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,960 A little bit of dust and some dirt, but nothing, nothing too 365 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:40,920 heavy to outweigh it's. Going to add a gram at post. 366 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,720 See here. So while David, well, David 367 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,000 doing that, I've really enjoyed this shoe it it does have good 368 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,280 flexibility. Know the mid foot doesn't flex 369 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:52,400 as much. If you don't like try to force 370 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:54,440 it there and that's not how your foot usually works. 371 00:17:55,120 --> 00:17:57,720 Just a night. And the foam is really it's it's 372 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,600 power run, but it's just got some nice snappiness to it that 373 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,400 feels really good. Do be aware that this is not 374 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,440 going to be that maximal super stacked shoe. 375 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:07,760 So you know, it's it's definitely higher stack than the 376 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,400 original Kimbaro's, but it's just a really good light shoe to 377 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,760 get workouts on that feels very nimble as well. 378 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,320 And I've gotten Hirapeet's temple runs. 379 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,160 I've done some intervals in it and it's good. 380 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,560 It gets it's a little it makes me feel better about myself 381 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,560 because I'm pushing a stroller and then Regina starts beating 382 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:24,360 me and I'm like, I will, I'm wearing, you know, non super 383 00:18:24,360 --> 00:18:26,400 shoes. But no, it's just a really 384 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,800 snappy, fun, light shoe That's been a great shoe for me to get 385 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:31,560 workouts in. And I've actually gotten some 386 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,800 training miles in this as well. And it really reminds me of why 387 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,600 I love the original so many Oh, like 15 years ago. 388 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,080 Gosh, why I love the I was in college when the original came 389 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:42,000 out. That's crazy. 390 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,200 I remember when it came out. Yeah, it was great, but this is 391 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,720 also another good one. It does run a little bit like 392 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,360 semi snug, so just know the fit's a little bit different. 393 00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:54,560 But yeah, it's just a fun, good, simple shoe that's actually been 394 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,080 more durable than I expected. Yeah, it actually has been. 395 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,080 I, I don't have that many miles on it, but it's holding up well. 396 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,840 It's sometimes those exposed Eva mints will just get shredded, 397 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:10,080 but it's, it's, it's holding. Weigh in was 9.5, you know, 398 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:15,200 men's 9.57.07 oz. So the Med size. 399 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:19,040 Nine might be high sixes, yeah, high sixes, which is great. 400 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,720 So that's what that I mean, this isn't just a lightweight 401 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:23,400 trainer. This is like a potential racing 402 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,560 shoe for people that don't want plates or a super phone. 403 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,600 This is totally in that realm of like, dude, you could easily use 404 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:30,520 this as a racing shoe. Totally. 405 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,000 Do you want to go next? Yeah, Yeah, you can go next. 406 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:33,200 Sure. We. 407 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,000 Didn't say this, but we'll probably just switch back and 408 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:36,760 forth. Yeah, yeah, we could do that. 409 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:38,360 Yeah, We're doing this live. We're doing it. 410 00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:42,840 I'll go with the next one. So this one's a little bit 411 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,280 different from the two that we just listed. 412 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:47,480 And this one's been around for a while too. 413 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,760 It's on its 16th iteration now You know what I'm going to. 414 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:56,360 It's the A6 Noosa Tri 16. Always with the bright crazy 415 00:19:56,360 --> 00:19:59,200 colors. I feel like I can never look at 416 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,400 a Noosa and be like, oh, it's just black and white. 417 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,920 Oh, it's just, it's, it's Navy blue. 418 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,000 There are some. There are some black and white 419 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,600 colorways, but they are not calm in any form at all. 420 00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:11,360 Yeah, I feel like it's a prerequisite for a Noosa. 421 00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:17,280 They just look wild like, but the NUSA 16 very good option as 422 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,400 well for a lightweight, you know, performance trainer 423 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,960 workout shoe, whatever we want to call it now this one's a 424 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,920 little bit stiffer. There is some flexibility. 425 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,160 There's no plate, you know, but it's a little bit stiffer. 426 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,640 There's a little bit more of a toe spring, so you get a little 427 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:35,280 bit more of like from that geometry standpoint, a little 428 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,920 bit more of that super shoe kind of rolling feel off the 429 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,120 forefeet. Now the foam is not a super 430 00:20:40,120 --> 00:20:41,960 foam. This is the regular flight foam 431 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:46,240 like it's it's a firmer feel. Blast Plus. 432 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:48,240 Blast Plus, Yeah, it's Blast Plus. 433 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:49,120 You're right, you're right, right. 434 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:56,160 And if you've run in the NUSA Tri 15, this one is a little bit 435 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,240 softer, but it's still firm like the Nusas have always been on 436 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:03,960 the firmer side of things, good traction under foot, this is and 437 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,640 it has just a little bit more stack to it, but it's not it's 438 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:08,800 still pretty low, you know, by today's standards. 439 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,720 Moderate stack height by today's standard standards. 440 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:12,840 Yeah, for sure. Yeah. 441 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:14,280 So that one is a little bit different. 442 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:16,400 It's not as flexible. So you have a little bit more 443 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,560 toe spraying, a little bit more stiff for those that want that. 444 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,640 And I think that one too is another like nice tempo shoe can 445 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,200 hit the track. That one I think can go a little 446 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,520 bit longer in distances than some of the other ones, but I 447 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,080 don't know. That's up to the person at that 448 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,160 point. You know, if you can tolerate 449 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:38,000 it, you know, in that 15 plus mile range, but upwards of like 450 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,160 10 to 13, I think it's a great, great shoe. 451 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,000 And this actually brings up a really good point because you 452 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:43,760 mentioned that yeah, it's still a little bit stiff even though 453 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,240 it's not a plate and we were talking before we recorded this 454 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:47,880 going well. If we're talking about non 455 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,920 plated shoes, does the Super blast count? 456 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,600 And I don't think it does because again, stiffness can 457 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,080 come from many different areas and the Super blast, the stack 458 00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:00,760 height is so high and how rigid it is, it might as well have 459 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:01,600 one. It doesn't. 460 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,920 But stack they the plate is not the only thing that can create 461 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:07,960 such a stiff ride. And certainly a ton of stack 462 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:09,920 height can too. So we're not including the Super 463 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:11,960 blast in this list. Not the bad shoe. 464 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,360 It's it's been a favorite. It's a it's a great shoe. 465 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,320 It's one of those versatile ones that can handle a lot of mileage 466 00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:20,080 and do some up tempo workouts and marathon races for a lot of 467 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,000 people. But we're talking about more of 468 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,720 the like moderate stack height. I think for most of these is 469 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,000 probably going to be the key. I think. 470 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,520 So definitely news to try. 16 is a great one and also feels like 471 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,360 sometimes it flies over. It's it always gets a tons of 472 00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:35,880 ton of views by the way, on both the website and videos. 473 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:37,680 People love it. People love it, but I feel like 474 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,760 it like in general I don't see a lot about it frequently and I 475 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,400 think people should talk about it more just because it's a good 476 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,400 solid shoe that doesn't break the bank but also one that can 477 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,280 pick up the pace. Right. 478 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:51,760 What about you? What about what we got next? 479 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,760 Yeah, so I'm, I was going between a couple, I got to give 480 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,200 the New Balance Rebel V4 a shout out. 481 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,280 And that's that's my one because, yeah, it's got the 482 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,320 little more of the the there's a Piba influence there, but it's 483 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,000 not as much as we kind of thought it was. 484 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,960 And the fuel cell, the new version is wider. 485 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,080 It's actually way more stable because the mid foot's wider. 486 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,120 So I really enjoyed it. Got a ton of miles on it. 487 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,480 It's a great shoe. It can handle workouts very 488 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,280 easily. It is a little bit more flexible 489 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,440 because it's more moderate stack height fit is really good and 490 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,280 just that really nice lighter weight. 491 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,160 I struggle with the previous version because it was too 492 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,240 narrow. I didn't feel like I got a lot 493 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:26,560 of it. But this is working really well 494 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,280 with my geometry. And I've already students have 495 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:30,800 already asked, but like, hey, what do you think of Rebel 496 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,440 before Mike? It's a great, you know, 497 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,640 introductor shoe for faster running and I've really enjoyed 498 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:36,800 it. But there's enough there that 499 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,360 like I was able to a 14 mile long run, which is really 500 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,080 outside of my comfort zone right now because I'm not doing a lot 501 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,920 of higher mileage with Isabella, especially pushing it in the 502 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,600 stroller. So Rebel before is definitely 503 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,000 that one that like you want that trainer that has a little bit of 504 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,480 people influence but not plated, but can do some faster stuff for 505 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,440 sure. And my other also be another 506 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,120 like potential race option for those that don't want to plate 507 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,400 really good one there. And of course I don't have it. 508 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,600 It's it's sitting in in on the shelf in Oregon. 509 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,640 Yeah, I don't have mine on me either. 510 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,320 That's another one too, if you like the flexibility on the toe 511 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,840 screen, like at the very end is more on the toes. 512 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,080 It's a little bit farther forward than some other shoes. 513 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,800 And so for me, that actually didn't work for me very well. 514 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,080 But for some people, they really like that feeling. 515 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,600 So if you like that as well, that's another option to look 516 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:32,560 into between the Rebel V4. I think I'll continue the the 517 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,800 torch here, but it'll be another shoe I don't have on hand. 518 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,320 But we'll go with the Hoka Mock 6 next. 519 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:46,000 And so that one, that one's an interesting one because it has a 520 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:50,120 very track ready feel. It's probably the best way that 521 00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:54,440 I can say that It's low volume, it's snug, it's grippy. 522 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:59,280 The midsole is it's it's has super critical Eva. 523 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,320 Is that what it is? Yes, it's not Piba based, 524 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,320 although I swore at first I'm like this almost feels like it's 525 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,360 got some, it's got way more balance than some of the prior 526 00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:07,840 versions, which felt really firm. 527 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,880 But yeah, it's not Piba based. It's not and it's just, it's 528 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,320 super, not just it's super critical Eva, but it has some 529 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,440 definite kickback from the midsole, which was very 530 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,920 interesting. Yeah, so that was a shoe that I 531 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:20,840 had a lot of fun running on the track with. 532 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,320 I didn't have quite as much fun with it on the roads. 533 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:31,440 That one, the snug fit, the low volume, it just didn't quite 534 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,120 work over that 10 mile range. Like most workouts for me. 535 00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:38,920 Workout days, shall I say, are probably after warm up and cool 536 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,520 down and everything, you know, probably somewhere in the 537 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:46,040 ballpark of 10 to 13 miles. I felt like that was kind of 538 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,760 where it peaked for me. I don't think I'd really see it 539 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,520 on a long run on myself. I know some people love it, but 540 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,920 I just I don't know if I could do it. 541 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:59,360 But as far as like that, like nice tight track ready feel like 542 00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:03,120 that is a track workout monster. Like that shoe can tackle pretty 543 00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:05,800 much anything you throw at it. And I have run 5K pace in that 544 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,280 shoe fine. I've had the same experience 545 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,800 where it worked extremely well for like sprints and shorter 546 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,400 stuff. And I think for people that want 547 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:17,200 that feeling, I think going true to size might be good because I 548 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,840 felt like it felt like very tapered and narrow. 549 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,400 It's not like like track spike is like exactly like you said. 550 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,960 I wonder what, excuse me, 1/2 size up somebody. 551 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,000 Was it Andrea that tried 1/2 size up and said it was a lot 552 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,800 better? Somebody tried that and said it 553 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,040 was much better than that realm, so you might if you want it for 554 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:36,680 a little longer distance. I think it was Nate, maybe it. 555 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:37,920 Was Nathan? Yeah, it was Nathan. 556 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,200 That's right. You should try maybe 1/2 size up 557 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:41,760 if you want it for a little longer distance stuff. 558 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,320 But again, another great shoe that lighter weight could easily 559 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,160 be a racing shoe for a lot of people that's just snappy in a 560 00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:52,240 fun shoe that's not plated. You're up, right? 561 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,160 Yes. So I'm going to throw in the 562 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,720 Hyperion, Hyperion GTS two. So the first one I really, 563 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,760 really liked and I, as I've said a billion times totally missed 564 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,440 getting 100 mile review on which I got and the durability was 565 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,160 great. So this is the updated version 566 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:12,840 of the latest fast stability show on the market coming in at 567 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,880 like under like I remember it's like 7.57 point 6 oz for men's 568 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:21,040 size 9 really light mild stability shoe, which the which 569 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,600 the mild stability racing categories is all but 570 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,160 disappeared. There used to be things like the 571 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:30,280 fast switch DS racer gone. So very moderate stack height. 572 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,080 Nice little DNA flash here, which is not the most responsive 573 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:34,720 foam. It's not a super foam, but it's 574 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,680 just a good natural writing thing that feels really good and 575 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,080 it's still really protective. I've done a ton of miles on 576 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,760 these and a ton of workouts and I've really enjoyed them. 577 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,640 It is very clear they are not super and I'm not talking down 578 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,440 to Brooks on that, but it's a great shoe if you want to move 579 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,880 faster but still need that mild stability component. 580 00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:54,680 You have experience in the non GTS version, correct? 581 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:56,800 I have experience in both. Got it, Got it. 582 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,680 Yeah, I've actually run, I actually have preferred the GTS, 583 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,800 believe it or not, like that's on the track and doing things. 584 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,680 I kind of like that just rear foot to like kind of like distal 585 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,320 bid foot, you know, yeah, ish. Like right before the four foot 586 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,400 there, those guide rails are kind of nice. 587 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,760 It kind of just firms it up a little bit and it just feels 588 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,880 good for my heel. So I I just like the way it 589 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:25,480 transitions there. The the difference between the 590 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,640 GTS and the Hyperion 2. So, you know, I know they look 591 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:35,160 so different when I hold them up, but you know, barring any 592 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:40,200 obvious differences, they have the they have the guide rails, 593 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,960 basically the go to support is what GTS stands for. 594 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,200 And so they have these guide rails basically on the medial 595 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,040 side of the foot and on the lateral side. 596 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,680 And then this kind of like little hug thing that it does, 597 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:55,720 but it's just a little bit of guidance just kind of creates a 598 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,400 little bit of rigidity. I mean, it's not super rigid. 599 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,360 I wouldn't necessarily call it a post like you can push into it, 600 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,160 you know, but it's but it is firmer and it's just enough to 601 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,280 kind of give that little cradle feel through the heel and mid 602 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,000 foot, which I really like. And then they have a good four 603 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:11,720 foot too. Like there's flexibility, but 604 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,800 it's still it's a nice balance where it's like, yes, it's 605 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,360 flexible, but there's still enough rigidity in this to be 606 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,520 snappy and responsive, especially on the track. 607 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,680 But they they both have that same DNA. 608 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,320 One thing that I think is really interesting that enough people I 609 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,720 don't think have talked about is looking at the outsole patterns 610 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:36,120 and the medial side of the forefoot on the GTS is filled in 611 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,920 and the Hyperion too is not. And that again, adds just a 612 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,360 little bit of rigidity to the medial aspect of the forefoot. 613 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,400 Like there's a lot of like subtle little things they put 614 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,680 into this shoe that I've actually liked on the GTS. 615 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,520 But all the things I say about the GTS still ring true for the, 616 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:56,000 you know, the Hyperion too. It's just take all those 617 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,280 stability elements and those little things that I was talking 618 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,000 about and just subtract some of those things and you still have 619 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,880 that natural ride in the Hyperion too. 620 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:04,240 It still has a little bit of rigidity. 621 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,120 It's still the same foam and the traction still really good under 622 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,800 foot. So they're both good options for 623 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,000 those lower distance kind of workouts, lower to mid distance 624 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,520 workouts. I think it is hard. 625 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,600 I think this is another one of those shoes I don't think I 626 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,840 really see myself taking in beyond that 10 to 13 like how I 627 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,520 feel about the mock, but I do feel like the upper on this is a 628 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:30,600 is more forgiving than the mock. For sure. 629 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,120 Yeah, it's got that. It's like slightly wider fit 630 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:34,920 where there's enough room in the toe box. 631 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,320 It feels very, very comfortable. I wonder people with narrow feet 632 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,160 might struggle with them, might have to lock that down a little 633 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,120 bit or might prefer the mock. But it's for me and David, 634 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:45,720 obviously really, really comfortable because just a 635 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,560 little bit more room. So yeah, definitely agree. 636 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,400 Am I next or you next? I think I am, but we we got 637 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,960 through the list. We just have one other one that 638 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,640 I had written down that's technically not a lightweight 639 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,400 trainer, but we feel like you could make the case that it 640 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,240 could be in there. And that's the Saucony Ride 17 641 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,320 and they they cut a lot of weight off of that shoe. 642 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,800 They upgraded the foam to the power run plus. 643 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,040 They did that with the intention of making it a durable monster 644 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,320 of a workhorse. But that foam actually has a 645 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,040 little bit of bounce to it once you load it. 646 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,280 And so like we feel like you can hit some pretty good workouts on 647 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,840 that thing and it locks down well and has good traction and 648 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,280 it checks all those boxes. It's just a little bit heavier 649 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,160 and just a little bit more sturdy of a shoe. 650 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,320 So it's like it's that daily trainer that can come down if 651 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,440 you needed to. I would definitely agree and I I 652 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,000 not to correct you, believe it or not, 16 was the lighter 653 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,360 version. 17 gains a little bit of weight. 654 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:48,720 Yeah, I, I always forget that. I'm in the same boat as you and 655 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,720 I always forget that. The only reason why I remembered 656 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,240 that is I went to look it up because when I was first wearing 657 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,160 it, my first run turned into a tempo run and I haven't done 658 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,000 that in years. And I was like, what the hell is 659 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:00,840 going on? And then all of a sudden I'm 660 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:02,040 like, this is supposed to be heavier. 661 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,280 I was getting prepared to be disappointed, but the foam is so 662 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,600 much more responsive. Like I would pick that foam over 663 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,840 the new triumph. Like the power and PB is very 664 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,520 it's tuned to be more relaxed, whereas the power and plus in 665 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,200 the right 17 felt like snappy and fast. 666 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,720 So that's a great example of a shoe that's like this is a daily 667 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,080 trainer, but it is it very easily can move into those 668 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,200 workout paces. And I did all my workouts for 669 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,760 like 3 to four weeks in the right 17 and I had no 670 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,040 disappointment. It would I would did some of the 671 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,320 fastest workouts I'd done. I know that's not what the 672 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,360 purpose of that shoe is for, but it's just an example. 673 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,000 We do talk about this that there are trainers that can do that. 674 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,440 And so that's a great one where, hey, you know, if you can only 675 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,800 afford one shoe, that would be a great option to look into 676 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,320 because it can do the daily training. 677 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,320 You can barely easily do faster workouts and then when you're 678 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,600 ready, if you can't financially, that might be good to go. 679 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,000 All right, now that I'm ready, I'll have the Super shoe for 680 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,360 just rate say, or specific things, But there's lots of 681 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,280 options out there for non plated stuff. 682 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,840 And we're not trying to tear you away from super shoes. 683 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,680 But we're also telling you that a lot of people need to think 684 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,600 about utilizing them in moderation because we as 685 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,320 clinicians and also ourselves are seeing things that these 686 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,680 super shoes are not free energy, right? 687 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,400 That violates the laws of physics. 688 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,880 If you put force to the ground, it's got to go somewhere. 689 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,320 Yes, these shoes tend to improve your running economy and certain 690 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,360 people that might improve how fast you're going, right? 691 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,840 That comes with a cost somewhere and it's not the scary going you 692 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,440 need to be Make sure you're using these tools the right way 693 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,640 and understanding how they impact your body. 694 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,440 And as we figured out going, you know what, these are really fun. 695 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,520 But if I actually want to improve my fitness, if I 696 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,240 actually want to keep a little more balanced that not like 697 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,320 literal balance, but actually, yeah, never mind, then maybe 698 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:51,640 considering a non plated option or not or being not afraid to go 699 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,880 back and do workouts in non super shoes is just what we're 700 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,080 trying to say. They miss anything on that. 701 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,960 No, I think you hit that well. I mean, there's like we, we, we 702 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,360 always say shoes are tools and there's a lot of different uses 703 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,200 for all of these different designs. 704 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:12,360 And it's not to ever scare you or swayed you in any way towards 705 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,600 any specific design. We don't condone that. 706 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,600 Like we want to just find a shoe that's the best for what you're 707 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,280 looking for. And sometimes the answer is to 708 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,600 have a couple of different shoes for a couple of different 709 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:29,040 purposes and goals. And I think having a rotation is 710 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:30,600 good. Like we've seen there is some 711 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,679 data out there to support that. It can be good to have a 712 00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:37,199 rotation, get a couple different stresses into our body, can 713 00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:38,920 potentially decrease some injury risk. 714 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:44,520 So I think it's good to have a rotation and have some things 715 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,040 and also it gives you something to look forward to. 716 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,120 You get to put your special shoes on on race day. 717 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,320 Like are they that special if you wear them every Tuesday and 718 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:52,040 Friday? Like. 719 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,000 Yeah, I feel like. So for the listeners, Dave and I 720 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,840 are gonna get this, 'cause we ran in college and high school 721 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:05,320 and like we back in those times, 'cause we're that old now, you, 722 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,760 we didn't have super shoes. Like you had very super light 723 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,200 racing flats that you couldn't go that far in. 724 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,840 And you only really put those on when it was something special, 725 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,400 if it was race day or if it was a very special workout or maybe 726 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,400 a part of the workout. And now, I mean, and you 727 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,320 couldn't do that much. Like I remember like the Mizuna 728 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,160 Wave universe was a great example of my favorite racing 729 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,800 shoes that I still have a pair of that I put those on. 730 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,600 I'm like, yeah, I can't do what I once did in this stuff because 731 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,560 I'm just not used to it, right. And that was like that special 732 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,320 shoe. Now you have super shoes. 733 00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:40,560 Not only are there are they like crazy, look good, but you can 734 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:42,880 wear them all the time. You can do warm ups and cool 735 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,000 dolls in them and not feel super uncomfortable. 736 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,200 And so we're just telling you that your life, I think a lot of 737 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,080 people get used to having that feeling all the time. 738 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:55,400 And something feeling that good all the time may not be the best 739 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,400 option in terms of improving your fitness. 740 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,720 The jury's still out on what on injuries and I'd be very careful 741 00:36:01,720 --> 00:36:03,760 about that because there's only a couple case studies and we 742 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,560 still have a lot to learn. But we do know no matter what 743 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,480 shoe has come out, injury rates haven't changed over all the 744 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,720 years. The types change because these 745 00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:16,040 different shoes place forces in different areas and stress 746 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,800 tissues. But the rates, how many people 747 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:20,400 get injured? Exactly the same? 748 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,840 Anywhere from 20 to 70% of all runners. 749 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,520 And that's a huge variation of the researchers all over the 750 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,280 place. A good number of runners get 751 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,000 injured every single year. And the things that are going to 752 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,720 help you, which David alluded to is there is evidence from Malizo 753 00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:38,440 and Laura Maslow that suggests that a shoe rotation can reduce 754 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,640 your injury risk. Strength training can reduce 755 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,080 your injury risk, but also making sure you train smart and 756 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,440 give your body time to adapt. And sometimes super shoes may 757 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,800 cause you to overreach in ways you might not be aware of. 758 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,200 So that's where we're just suggesting that, hey, you might 759 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,440 want to consider rotation if you can financially afford it. 760 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,800 If not, something like the right 17 might be a really good option 761 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,080 to go, Hey, how can I balance this out and still have my daily 762 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,480 and workout shoe? But we're just encouraging you, 763 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,680 as David said, to learn as we are trying to learn as well how 764 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,040 to train smarter and get more out of the stuff. 765 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,120 And sometimes using the thing that feels good, really, really 766 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,520 good all the time may not be the best option. 767 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,360 And we are also finding that out personally. 768 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,560 I can't sum that up any better than you just did. 769 00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:21,200 Should we? Should we do an NBA question? 770 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:22,280 If no. Please. 771 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,800 If. I could be able to answer it 772 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,280 all. It's terrible because one of my 773 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,240 like, what? A very, very good friend of 774 00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:33,800 mine. An inspiration Dustin Willis is 775 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:38,040 currently over at the Paris Olympics with the US basketball 776 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:39,520 team because he's one of the head PTS. 777 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,400 There so that's good so I. Should have a better idea of 778 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,920 that, but unfortunately I don't. So dusted in the in the very 779 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,160 rare chance you listen to this give you a massive shout out. 780 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,640 It's really cool to see you at the Olympics. 781 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:55,160 So yeah, so that is our episode on talking about the best non 782 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,800 plated lightweight trainers and training shoes that can also be 783 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,400 used for workouts. We encourage you as always, to 784 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,120 look at us as resources. The purpose of all that we do is 785 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,400 really to help you find what's going to work best for you. 786 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,120 I figure it's it'd be nice to have this disclaimer in that we 787 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,240 do not accept any finances from companies that we do not allow 788 00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:15,080 people to pay us. We do everything independently. 789 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,320 Yes, shoes do get sent to us free of charge, but that does 790 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,040 not influence how we write reviews. 791 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,760 We're not afraid to poo poo on a shoe if it sucks, as we have 792 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:26,560 done frequently. What we do though, is we do make 793 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,120 a little bit of profit from some of the ads and stuff like that. 794 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:30,840 So always is help. It's really helpful. 795 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:32,760 Although we all have full time job jobs. 796 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,840 If you can like and subscribe to the, if you're listening on any 797 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,160 of the different platforms out there for podcasting, if you can 798 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,560 like and subscribe to us or if you are on YouTube watching this 799 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,800 like and subscribe. It does help us like maintain a 800 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,280 little bit to help us keep going and support us doing this stuff 801 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,920 because like I said, we all have it at least one full job on top 802 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:54,720 of this. So every little bit helps 803 00:38:54,720 --> 00:38:56,720 support us to be able to keep making good content that 804 00:38:56,720 --> 00:39:00,400 hopefully is helpful, educational and not only helps 805 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,400 you find what works for you, but also maybe even saves you a 806 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,200 couple bucks buying stuff that's not going to work. 807 00:39:05,720 --> 00:39:07,840 The other thing is we actually don't want to see you in our 808 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,120 offices. We really like all of you, but 809 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:11,080 we don't want you to get injured. 810 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:12,840 So that's the other thing. So just a little disclaimer 811 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,920 based on some comments that we've heard on the YouTube and 812 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,000 what have you, but we really appreciate you joining us for 813 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:19,960 this journey. Hope as always, this stuff 814 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:21,040 helps. We have lots of different 815 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,200 platforms that we're always on and everything from LinkedIn to 816 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,680 Facebook to Instagram to all the YouTube, all the different 817 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,320 social and podcast size. Like I said, please give us a 818 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,840 like subscribe and as always hope this information is helpful 819 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:34,320 to you.