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All right, on with the show, everyone.
You don't understand, it's after.
Us. It's big, it's got huge teeth, a
big beak, bulgy eyes. Feathers, fur everywhere.
Yeah, and pigs can fly. No.
Bears can fly bad guys. Beware, here comes Banjo Kazooie
where you're both bird and bear with amazing powers.
There's never been anything like this.
Head banging, sky flying, rock hopping, egg shooting, tag
teaming duo Banjo Kazooie, only for Nintendo.
Music. Welcome to Remember 64, where
this week we are putting the puzzle together 1 collectathon
world at a time. Hi everyone, welcome to the
show. Hello again if you're a
returning listener and viewer, and welcome if this is your
first time to remember 64. Here on the show, we play and
discuss the good, the bad, the ugly, and everything in between
on the Nintendo 64's library. My name, of course, is David
Betrangelo, and I'm just so happy we finally get to talk
about this game. I love it so much.
Spoiler alert, no funny quip, no nothing.
We're talking Banjo Kazooie. It's time.
It's level episode 64. Let's do this, Jiggy.
Look back the individual who may or may not have some sort of
mild connection to this franchise.
How you doing? Yeah, just a little bit.
It only took us 64 episodes to get here.
We diverted and went into Game Boy territory before we talked
about Banjo, which I don't know how I feel about that, but at
least we're here now. So we're here.
I'm good with it. We made.
It thank you for made on this journey once again, Sir, thank
you. Level 64, we made it.
We made, oh, maybe that's what I should.
I wrote, I wrote something down before we started like, oh,
maybe that's, that's OK. But maybe just we made it is all
we need. We made it.
That might, that might be all with you, but it's not just me
and you. It's not just the two of us.
This is a special episode because it's 64 and hey, it's
kind of fun to make 64 a thing. I don't know, I thought it was
clever, but maybe it's just, it's just silly.
But I'm going to go with it. I'm going to run with it.
And it's a franchise that me and you both love.
A lot of people do. And we're going to bring on a
series of guests. This is like a round table at
this point. This time we have the entire Fun
and Games podcast crew with us. We have Matt, Jeff and Sarah
here to talk about Banjo Kazooie.
Hello, Welcome to Remember 6. Hi.
Hello. I knew that was coming.
Jeff is nothing if not predictable that that laugh was
for the video version. You'll have to tune in to see.
Please push me to the YouTube I got.
You please, please do. Please do.
Thanks for having us. We're excited to be back.
I love that we did a retrospective over on our show
where all of us got to participate in, much to Sarah's
surprise, in the moment and. Then you were like moment a
fantastic. It was really downplay it.
It was a fantastic. Moment it was.
It was great. It was fantastic, yeah.
And you, you both basically asked on the spot, well, we're
doing Banjo Kazooie. Do you guys want to talk about
it and see a lot? And so here we are.
And so thank you for having us. We're really excited to be a
part of this legendary journey through the good, bad, the ugly
and everything in between. Yeah, it's, it was great to be
able to, to come on the show and talk about the 64 as a whole,
you know, the retrospective episode so people can find out
in the game fun and games podcast feed as well.
But Matt, we've had you on the show before, Jeff and Sarah.
We have not. But we did discuss a lot of the
N64 in general. So I'm not going to, we don't
have to go through the whole, you know, history of everything
with the 64 and everything. But Sarah, I'm going to start
with you. Let's just chat about, you know,
broadly speaking, what what your feelings are of the 64 and
gaming kind of around this time. You have a pretty epic story of
your experience with it at the time, but I think people should
listen to that episode for that. But is there anything else that
we? May yeah, I'll I'll look really
good on this episode and not like a giant terrible human.
So anyway, I I'm not going to say any more about that.
I love an N64 collect a thon. It's probably my favorite genre
of game, Banjo Kazooie's, and up in my top five.
DK 64 was my jam, right? I love a game that broadcasts to
you what you're supposed to do. I need to become Tiny Kong and
go get Purple Bananas to get that, and Banjo Kazooie has some
amount of that, and I like that a lot.
It also has some really hard stuff where you're like, how am
I supposed to know how to break that window without looking at a
guide? I will say I replayed it this
last week to prepare for this podcast because I am a good
student and I want to get a good grade and podcast.
It's a lot better with save states.
I had a much better time playing it than I did as a kid.
But I actually have a lot of love, a lot of nostalgia for the
genre in general. I love a platformer.
I don't even hate bad camera angles.
I think it adds charm to it. I think I am good at it and that
makes me feel good. Nice, nice.
I love that, Jeff, if you're there somewhere.
Oh, I'm here. I'm here.
Just kidding. How about you?
That's actually a pretty good a pretty good jumping off.
But we have talked about DK 64, which is actually I think the
first episode that that Jiggy joined the show.
So so that yeah, that was the that was about two years ago
now. So jeez, time flies it.
Was episode 19 is when I hopped if I if memory serves.
I can make it, I can look it up if you'd like.
But I have a terrible memory, so I'm just gonna go with that.
Let's just say it's that, yeah, we've been doing fun games for
eight years. And I just real and like that.
I'm still coping with that. The the time creeps up, the time
will pass regardless. Yeah, It's it's a flat circle,
right? Isn't that what time is?
It's something like that. Yeah, something like that.
Jeff, I think actually Sarah puts a, it's a pretty good point
out there to say, you know, collectathons are pretty well
known on this console. You know that that is a huge
part of what the N64 is, Banjo Kazooie or not.
Is that something that tickles your fancy as well?
So collect a Thon's? Yeah, absolutely.
I love a good collect a Thon. I love exploring spaces, finding
secrets, engaging with mechanics, overcoming
challenges, solving puzzles. I grew up with a PlayStation,
not an N64, so 3D traversal for me went from control pad with
maybe awkward shoulder buttons that kind of rotate the camera a
bit to dual stick and I have. More.
Yeah, it is. And so I and it's something
we've stuck with across most gaming ever since.
So my time with the Nintendo 64, much like I said on our
retrospective for fun and games, it was mostly at friends houses
and then as an adult it was with Sarah's guidance.
So there is a little bit of, I don't have the same nostalgia
for some of this that everyone else does, but I still have
plenty of games that I played that I love and I don't have the
same love for the camera angles that Sarah does.
Thank you for saying that Sarah. At least one of us likes it.
I sort. I also played through Banjo
Kazooie in preparation for this episode.
But in true how I was as a student fashion, I started it a
few days ago and so I just treated it like a blockbuster
rental. I am somewhere in Clankers
Cavern right now. The game is currently paused
behind me. There was a lot of cursing
before we got on this. Call.
That we need to hear about. That's a, that's a teaser right
there that we got to get into well.
He said he was in Plankers Cavern, so.
Yeah. I mean, yeah, that explains
itself. Basically one of the worst
stages in the entire game. It wasn't so much cursing as
just seething existential rage. That's fair.
I think. I just wait till rusty bucket.
I know, that's why I said I'm like.
That's where it starts to get even harder, though.
I don't. I'm not saying that it's getting
too hard or anything like that. Here's the other thing to
understand. I would never say that I am the
greatest gamer out there, but I am far from the worst.
I'm pretty good in fact, and there is plenty of times where
when it is flowing with Banjo Kazooie, it's great.
And there is plenty of where I see they're coming from what I
see. And we, and I said this, I've
got on record with you all saying this before, the N64 was
a big piece of awkward but necessary evolution in a lot of
design and a lot of ideas. And so Banjo Kazooie is
definitely a lot of cool ideas, a lot of things I wish there was
a better version of this game kind of thing.
Like, and there are out there and there's other things that
people have gone on for, but there's some very deep
frustrations that got me very upset, yes.
Fair enough, fair enough. Matt, I know like an asshole.
No, no, no. We're gonna, oh, don't worry.
We're, we're gonna, Jeff, we're gonna dig right into it.
Don't you worry. Good, good, good.
OK, good. Yeah, we will help you through
this. We will help you through this.
Matt, I know that you're pretty excited to, to get a chance to,
to replay this and everything. And I say that because you wrote
to Jiggy and I are just me. I can't remember if it was the
group that that we had our chat and said, well, if I'm going to
do this, I'm going to do this the the authentic way or as as
authentic as possible. Tell us about that and how that
went. Yeah, so I don't have it near me
actually, but yeah. So I had played some of the N64
stuff on the Nintendo Switch Online, like Mari 64, and
barring the fact that that port isn't great to begin with, I was
just frustrated with the controller because most
controllers you can remap to anything.
But I feel like there's something about the N64
controller in its shape that like I need the controller, the
controller itself to really get the buttons down.
And so the. Layout is is even more.
I don't know if unique is even the right word than even like
the GameCube would be like if there's just the just the form
factor of it, something about it is is of its own existence.
I don't know what the word is. Well, because the buttons, yeah,
it's the C buttons and the three prongs.
It's like the thing about the GameCube controller is even
though it's a weird shape, the buttons map to like the standard
Xbox 360 shape controller pretty well because it's the same
amount of button and Agalog sticks.
It's just that one's a weird shape.
Whereas the N64 controller, it's got only the two shoulder
buttons, the 1 analog stick, the three prongs, the C buttons like
it doesn't map neatly to another controller.
Jeff grabbed one of his N64 controllers.
And the fact that everybody like they designed this with this the
D pad on the far left side, because I think they thought
more people would do 2D navigation, but with the 3D and
everyone holding the middle prong, that meant the Z button.
And this created a great imbalance.
And if you've got an L button and an R button, there's a lot
of balance ideas of what you would want to do with that.
But the Z button has kind of a trigger feel to it.
So this meant a lot of like the the crouching that you do in
Banjo Kazooie do with the Z button.
Cool, great, very natural. But it leaves you with an odd
disconnect and an odd imbalance in what you do with the R button
necessarily. Yeah.
And so this. Is the authentic mat this?
Yes, See the. Y so because I don't have an N64
anymore and could have borrowed bars, I could have, but I also
would have had no TV to hook it up to because I don't have an
old retro TV. Yeah, and then you gotta get the
the adapters and things like it's on the wall I.
Went down the well of looking up like the the those.
Adapters fine. Yeah.
And so. That's fine.
I decided since we talked about that, we were gonna do it and we
were pushing it out to like about a month from when we had
last spoke. I was like, look, I wanted to
get one of the replica N64 controllers through NSO for a
while. I'd been looking for something
to pull the trigger on. This was perfect.
And so I did, and it came. And my first reaction was a
reaction I've had before with getting new versions of old
hardware was, boy, I remember this controller being bigger,
but the fact was I was just smaller back then.
Jeff, when I was trying to get back to playing Gameboy Advance
games on actual hardware, Jeff found a Gameboy SP for me.
The clamshell without the back, like with just the front light
for a good price. And so grabbed one for me, which
I happily paid for and at his local game shop.
And when he when Jeff got it to me, I flipped it open and put my
hands on it and went this feels very tiny.
This game, this console wasn't that tiny.
And so like, it's perfect. For me it's.
Right. It's also basically a straight
square. You know, when you hold like it
is, it's kind of like holding the NES controller, like when I
hold that now my hands aren't aren't huge or anything, but I
can't give. Them all to me, I will play
them. They are perfect for my hand
size. I have a couple.
Plane and I will take them. I have a couple and they are
functional. So, right, well, the thing I run
into, especially with stuff like the NES controller, isn't so
much the size a little bit, it's the ergonomics.
Like I remember playing on that little blocky rectangle, you
know, playing on the NES with that for hours, and this was
great and it was fine. Like, yeah, your hands would
sweat, whatever else, but this was perfect.
And as ergonomics got better and better, you'd go back and go.
We were fine with this. Well, but we should be so.
Safe you say that, but I played Banjo Kazooie this past week on
my Nintendo Switch light and using the ZL button instead of
an actual Z button to try to run with Kazooie and the trot was so
much harder. It's not as intuitive.
It like hurts your hand a little bit.
I like, I wish that I'd done what you did, Matt, even though
I did most of my playing on a train, so it's probably for the
best. I was just on my Switch light,
but yeah, this game was meant to be played on an N64 controller
and it was a bit of a challenge. Even having played it and what I
thought was beating it. I'll get to that later as a kid
and then beating it again now. It was a much different
experience and I prefer the older ergonomic design to the
way it was on the Switch. Yeah, I would say the button
mapping for the N64 controller, I can't think of a better way
that they could have done it for this game.
And I did my playthrough on original hardware on our TV.
Because I don't, I don't. This is my first time playing
through, like truly playing through it.
I don't deserve modern conveniences.
I need the true experience to speak about it honestly.
Yeah, which is totally legit. But for me also as someone who
had been wanting to play it the whole way through, which I may
have done when I was a kid, but I definitely don't remember, I
wanted to have a comfortable, a comfortable to mind nostalgia,
at least controller experience. And like it worked really well.
The controller feels pretty legit.
I mean, I can't compare it to the original hardware because I
don't have access to it at the moment, but like for what my
muscle memory was like the analog stick took a couple days
to like kind of really go through its paces to feel
comfortable. But it I adjusted pretty quick
And like, while I will admit that I would have never gotten
through this game without safe States and modern conveniences,
I did 100% it and I did not set out to do that because I rarely
and like Jeff can speak to this often whenever we talk about our
favorite genre Metroidvanias, I rarely 100% those.
It's Pokémon games too. I rarely 100% them.
I want to beat them. I want to go the extra mile for
what I feel is comfortable, but then that's it.
But once I got to the point, because this game basically to
complete it, you need like 4 jiggy, 4 extra jiggies and like
20 notes. I was like, well I'm almost
there, I'll look up a guide and I'll finish it.
It was worth it, but I definitely wouldn't have done it
if I was playing on the N64 because I remember getting the
3D All Stars pack, playing Mario 64 for like 20 minutes and
going. Maybe I don't love this game as
much as I used to, which isn't really possible, but I think it
really was the weird controller layout because it's based like
like Jeff said, the Z button is very unique in the fact that
it's meant to be a trigger, trigger feel and having it on
the shoulder doesn't work because ergonomic.
Ergonomically, it wasn't meant to be that way.
And so I'm excited to dive into more of the NSO library with
this controller now that I have it, because there are a bunch of
classic games from it that I haven't played in ages that I
want to revisit. Yeah.
And it's great that Nintendo is providing that.
If they're giving us games to your NSO, being able to do that,
it's it's ideal. Yes, I'm playing on modern, I'm
playing on the original hardware because that's what we do.
And that's why that's how we're weirdos.
But the fact that any modern gamer can have that N64
controller experience more aligned with its design is
honestly great. Yeah, yeah, 100% yeah.
I, I talked about this a little bit on on your show when we
talked about 64, but I guess it's somewhat similar as playing
a handheld because similarly to to you, Sarah, I had to kind of
play this on the go in a way. Because when I decided to play
this, I played it in September when our son was not sleeping
well at all and he was sleeping on my chest essentially almost
every single day. And I was like, I need a comfort
game. I need something I haven't
played in a while. I'm going to make it an N64
game. I, as if anyone's watching, can
see that I own the entire library of the Banjo Kazooie
franchise. So I was like, you know what I
can get away with legally, you know, robbing this thing on my
Steam Deck, which I did. So it has a very almost the
exact same layout button layout as what the switch would have.
You have that R2 or L2 like that button is up there.
The C buttons are the little joystick in the corner which is
so so like that I think is actually the bigger problem for
me is that but but the Steam Deck is also larger and I find
more comfortable than holding the switch for longer for myself
anyway so. See, back to my little hands.
The Steam Deck is just too big. Totally fair, completely fair.
I I think at times it does actually feel a little bit
clunky in a way. But it it, it, yeah, it is.
I mean, there's more, there's more in it, I guess is part of
it, right. So.
It's some this is this is a QRD T5 or whatever, but like a Horry
pad or something, you know, it's something that that shapes
shapes your hand better. The joy cons I they're they're
too small even for me. I wouldn't say I have big hands
either, but I get a little cramped sometimes when I play
there in handheld for long periods of time.
Yeah, that's with the joy cons. But I will say that this is a
game that you should you should really try to play the N64
controller. I'm glad other people said it
because I have. I was literally going to war on
Twitter about this yesterday. Well, that was your first
mistake, was going on Twitter I think.
Right, I was well you. Just go to war the second you
log in. Yeah, yeah.
Basically isn't that. What it is just it was just
talking about, right? It's buried.
It's buried somewhere in the privacy settings, Yeah.
Yeah, somewhere. Good luck with that.
For me the worst thing about playing with a modern controller
like not having the C buttons. I can tolerate it for the most
part, but honestly shooting eggs is a nightmare with a joystick.
That's exactly what it was. That is the worst thing and
would make me say any version that uses a modern controller.
That's not the way to do it. I.
Figured out another way though. On the Switch, you could hold
down the right trigger and push the top on the buttons like
forward. It was much better.
I, I looked it up, I was like, I'm not gonna make it if I have
to use the joystick. For eggs.
Slamming up on the joystick. Oh my God.
Yeah, no, it was bad. And like you have to shoot eggs
forward so many times. Yes, you.
Do and you have to be precise about shooting forward because
if you move that joystick slightly left or right, it like
doesn't hit the right zone. It's just like, no.
So yeah, I had an issue with that.
I wonder if, I wonder if the Steam Deck default would have
been that too, because I didn't, I didn't even try that.
I should have looked it up. That's a great.
Idea. I looked it up.
I was like, there's got to be a way to shoot eggs because it was
not this hard. Yeah, it's not.
Oh yeah, just hold. ZR and hit the top button.
I was like, oh, I'm going to do it.
It means you accidentally use your gold feathers sometimes
because you hit the right button and ZR.
But it's OK. It's it's worth it.
Screw those gold feathers. They're not.
They're not as critical, yeah. They're not as critical, yeah.
You could always get more. They're sometimes not, But OK,
while we're shitting on modern conveniences in this game, I
have a couple of things I want to say about why it's good.
One, you're 10 years old. You have 90 Jiggies or sorry, 90
notes, and mom says it's time to go to Taekwondo.
You have to leave. You can't leave the N64 pause
for several hours. Specific you can.
Try and then it'll be frozen. By the time you get back the.
The actual just ability, and I feel this way about most games
that you can play on the Switch or the Steam Deck to turn it off
and just pick up right where you left off is amazing.
And especially in a game as punishing as Banjo Kazooie.
Right. So I assume that all of our
listeners know how to play it. But if you die, if you drown, if
you get hit by something, if you jump off something super high
and think you can land and don't, you die and you lose all
of the notes that you've collected.
It's so punishing. And that mole is just so proud
of you, of your record of notes that you got.
And I and I understand Kazooie's vitriol for him.
Yeah, we should have a whole side thing about Bottles.
We everybody hates him in the game, so therefore I kind of
like. Him, I mean, I, I, I appreciate
him, but I can understand it sometimes.
I had the thing of on the flip side where Sarah, I told you
yesterday while I was playing through the game, reset on me.
Oh no. Guess how many notes I had?
Oh no. 90. 9/4 I was I was like getting to the last area of get
like getting the last 6G. Yep.
Yep, Yep, no, that's wait, what? So it just.
It just that was treasure trove. No.
Don't be a baby. That's what I was like.
Get those again. Yeah, so treasure trove is a
treat. It's a treasure, okay?
Okay, we're talking about treasure trove.
I came up to Jeff who was like, I can't get this swimming.
I was like, what swimming are you doing in treasure trove?
Really one Jinjo? I was like, oh, you're going to
have to do a lot more swimming. No, no, no, no.
This this was a specific thing not about.
Oh, the swimming physics. Swimming controls.
I know those were going to suck. It's that.
Yeah. The second you get in there, the
shark spawns in it. You know what?
All I got to do is get myself in the right spot, do a quick shot
down to that Jinjo. It's fine.
Do I have depth perception on the N64?
No, I barely have depth perception in real life, let
alone on the N64. So that's fine.
I just need to align myself. How do I aim and align that
better? Getting the exact right spot.
Otherwise you've overshot it. What is the collision detection
on a Jinjo? I went through his head.
Now you didn't touch it. Help me help help.
Help. Screw you, you dumb muppet.
I got him. I saved that Jinjo.
I saved the other 4 Jinjos. But the gulf of difficulty and
control frustration between yes, the utter joy of navigating
Treasure Trove Cove with its little ups and downs and
everything else and getting that one Jinjo.
It's it's. It is that it is the.
Find which one it is. Has a scrub.
It's. The orange one that's right
underneath the. Star right under the pier when?
You look at the red 1, the docks.
It is the first one. You see them immediately.
Here we go. And you hear him.
So to your there he is, vitriol towards the Jinjo's yelling at
you. I like that because I'm like,
wait a second, there's one nearby.
Where is he? Where is he?
Yeah, yeah. It's it is.
The you. Know what, it's actually very in
line with a lot of design of that era when you have the pre
boss cinematic that happens. Oh my God, that's so cool.
I died. All right, let's start this
again. Oh, it's the cinematic again.
Well, I died. Oh my God, I have to load it.
I hate that that particular decision and I hate that part.
Too. It's like it was one of those
words, yeah, no having it in there so you know it's there,
Super useful, super cool. If I'm doing three other things
because all of the collectibles are on top of each other and I'm
fighting for my life at Clankers Key and trying to get air
bubbles and I've got the Jinjo just yelling for me.
It's it's lost its charm. It's it's fine.
It is just from case to case. These are just this is not a a
condemnation of the whole thing. I'm just venting I.
I, I like the, the thing I noticed is, and this is, this is
not just this game, but games of this era even more, or more
specifically 3D games just because of sound design and
stuff. But, you know, I'm playing this
with headphones on, whether I'm on the couch or where there was,
you know, sit in front of the TV or something.
Now I have that option. Whereas, you know, 2530 years
ago, I'm sitting with this tiny little CRT and barely hearing
what's coming out of these broken speakers of ATV that's
probably already 15 years old. When something like like, you
know, characters are kind of calling you out or you're
hearing notes or you might hear some of the atmospheric stuff.
Like for now, like right now if you're inside the crab here and
there's like water dripping and stuff, you can hear that in your
headphones. At the time, I didn't have any
stereo sound. I didn't have anything to tell
me that like there was something extra going on here.
It was just go in, you hear some water splashing 'cause you're
walking through it and maybe you'll find a note or maybe
you'll find a puzzle. And I just, I it might, it might
get on you a bit if some of these moments are a little bit
more frustrating, like you're talking about Jeff.
But like, I don't know, I just get too charmed by this.
I get too. Charmed.
Oh, I guess if it's. Frustrating.
Some cool stuff, some great stuff.
I guess the quiz at the end was really hard for you then when
they were like, what? Where did you hear this song?
And you're like, oh, I can't even hear what you're playing.
At the time, no chance. I'm sure it was a guess or I'm
sure I tried multiple times and cause and then at that time when
you're younger, you have the time to right over and over and
over and you're talking about safe States and stuff.
And it reminds me, I talked about this when we did Majora's
Mask, where I think that's a that's a great game.
And it was the first time that I played all the way through it
when we did that episode. But you know, that is a game
that is based around time. Like yes, very clearly, yes.
And I just didn't. I just don't have that
opportunity or that chance right now to be able to sit there and
do this quote UN quote, the way it was, it was created.
So having safe states in a game like that really saved my ass
because I played that on NSO at the time on a game.
OK. So let's talk about save states.
I played all the way through the Haunted Mansion level 100% in
all of them. Yeah, with no safe states, I was
like, this is going to be great. And then I realized it was
yesterday and we were recording today.
So I decided, OK, it's time for some modern conveniences to get
me again to get a good grade in podcast and finish this game.
It made the hardest levels of the game trivial in Click, clock
wood, all those times when you fall off the tiny little path or
one of those parrots, you know, pushes you off.
I save stated right before that it doesn't matter, everything's
easy. It was still frustrating.
Jeff still came in to me cursing, trying to beat that
level. But the place that it was the
most ridiculous was the quiz. I would they'd ask a question,
I'd save state. I'd guess I'd load.
I'd guess I'd yeah. I'm taking notes.
Yeah. Just ask, I can help you get
good. You you said the answers are
randomized. So for some of them, some of the
things like where did you hear this sound is not randomized.
All the terrible things that Grinchilda's sister says about
her are apparently randomized. You can't look them up.
She says different things. Which is.
That's what I'm taking notes on right now.
Yeah, yeah, I would. But I so this seems like a good
spot to bring it up. There are some thematic problems
with this game and that the whole premise is that the
villain is fat and old and we're going to steal a child so that
she can be young and hot and her sister, who's clearly a huge
bully, waits around to tell you mean things about her sister.
Don't relate this at all to what I said on the podcast the other
time about being mean to siblings.
But anyway, it's real hard to watch in 2025 all of this like
fat phobia, old phobia stuff that like really doesn't hit the
same way it did in the late 90s. And yeah, I didn't want to
listen to Brent Hilda totally dunk on her sister.
So that's where safe stating was really good.
Yeah, I just. I thought it was worth
mentioning, although one other thing that's not a modern
convenience to this game. When you push save and quit,
which as a child you think means save your progress, there was no
save icon, there was no anything.
And it suddenly takes you to a game over screen where Gruntilda
gets real hot and your sister basically is her life is ruined.
It's devastating. I was like you said, save and
quit, not lose. You're quitting.
You're leaving. But Gruntilda was hot, though,
wasn't she? She was.
She was, really. Hot.
Look at that dress. Mumbo thought so.
I mean that. Mumbo.
Yeah, Mumbo. Mumbo.
Mumbo no one's. Also a little bit of a problem
if we're talking about. This listen the mumbo lore is
crazy because mumbo mumbo and Gruntilda.
So Gruntilda was like his I I I I'm trying to remember what the
instruction manual says. It says something like Gruntilda
was his student and Mumbo, like, taught her magic, and then she
got mad at him about something and turned his face into a
skull, and that's why he looks like Mumbo.
And then it's never addressed. It's never, like, they never
talk about it at all. It's just like this little blurb
in the instruction manual. In classic fashion.
Yeah. So basically like, she turned
his face into skull. He hates her.
It's a whole thing. And then the end.
He's just like, well, you're hot now, so.
I mean, Mumbo's got a lot of things to say about people being
hot in the end and that stuff too, but with, you know,
waitress carrying watermelons in front of her chest again. 90
Well, she asked for that. This is This is rare wearer's
take on Aku Aku from Crash Bandicoot, I'm guessing and.
You know. You got to have a magical
protector, but we also got some jokes.
I don't know. Yeah, Rails just like that.
They they are and like that. And again, when it hits, it's
very funny. Well they break the 4th wall
with Mumbo, he says what he's like the best shaman in the game
or something. Which I always I like when a
game or a movie or something breaks the 4th wall.
Makes me smile. Yeah, it's got.
This game does get a lot too. Like I feel like all of
Kazooie's snark is aimed at bottles.
Like I love cross time. It's like.
I love it. I love the back.
It's so funny. It's one of my favorite parts.
I, I, I thought that I would get tired of the dialogue because
I've seen a lot of people like I've watched tons of content
creators I enjoy cover this game.
One of my favorite content creators is on this call with
me, Mr. Jiggy, look back. But like, like a lot of folks
have covered this game and over, I've watched more coverage of it
than I've replayed it. I hadn't played it in a long
time. And a lot of the things that
folks like some call me Johnny and a bunch of other folks have
complained about is like the constant vocalization of the of
the words gets annoying because the same stuff the whole game.
But I don't know now how did I've replayed.
I don't agree. I think the sound design is
incredible. I think the vocalization is cute
and fun and never really that annoying.
I mean, like Gruntilda's voice is annoying, but I think that's
by design, basically. But like every time any other
character talked, I was just enamored, like, and some of the
characters that I didn't remember, I was excited to hear
what they sounded like, right? This was the earliest versions
of voice acting we got in games like this before they could do
for some of the game's full voice.
And I, I just, I don't agree with those takes that it gets
grading. I mean, again, I also had an
easier time of playing the game because I did save state and
stuff and streamline a bunch of it.
And I imagine if I played for twice as long and got stuck on
twice as many things, it'd be different.
But I don't know, I, I think that it's overblown that the
voices get annoying in this. I think it's fun.
And like Dave was saying, like I love Kazooie's snark.
Like it's some of the best writing in the entire game.
Is whatever new nickname she has for Bottles this time.
And I, and I would even say that for all the frustrations that
have already aired and everything else, I never got
annoyed at the voices. And I definitely have the and I
have the syndrome of I'm calm. This is fine.
And now I'm frustrated. And when I get frustrated with
games it. Do you know the concept of this
bitch eating crackers? Where?
You get so mad that anything happening around you and then
there's this bitch eating crackers kind of thing.
Like that level of frustration happened while playing Banjo
Kazooie. But at no point did the voices
bother me. Those were unobtrusive and
characteristic. I mean, again, I played the
original Gex so much on the PS1. You want to talk?
About tail time. It's tail time.
This will be great for my collection over and over again,
and that gets grading. But when it's just some noise,
it becomes part of the background, and the sound and
music design is utterly beyond reproach on this game.
Yeah, you know, yeah, I would say that the voices don't get
annoying, mostly because whenever they pop up, there's
something actually to be said. Yes, that's related to the plot
or the level. It's never, with the exception
of Gruntilda randomly in the layer popping up and like,
taunting you. Yeah, you never have like random
instances like you do in Gex where he just randomly will say
something or make a quip, you know?
Yeah, So I think, I think that plays a huge factor into it.
And plus, I love Mumbo's voice. I just want to say his is my
favorite. The oh, I got a fuck.
It's it's amazing. It's my favorite.
It's just like in my head forever.
Hey. Jeff, what's your favorite?
Yeah, Jeff, definitely Kazooie. I mean, honestly, because there
again, even before I like sat down to play this, the
characteristic sound for me, it's like, what does Banjo
Kazooie sound like? Yeah.
Yeah, of like running around and I'm like once I got that
ability, I'm like, yeah, there it is.
Yeah, let's. Go.
There it is. And again, rather than having
like cool in however you want to spell cool with big air quotes,
like quips going on every time you use a move that like rotates
maybe 2-3 that you're doing this move over and over again there
it's it's almost music. It is a tone.
It is a motif that goes along with whatever is happening,
which is another piece of OK, the your duo of Banjo and
Kazooie like almost form into a different shape when something
is going on, when the beak attack is happening, when you're
doing the job, when you're when Kazooie is walking and the
sounds going with that further this idea of satisfaction of
doing the thing you set out to do.
So hell yeah. Yeah, I think.
I think also, really quick, this is a thing that we didn't really
address in the N64 episode, but like the sound design, we did
talk about this a little bit with the limitations pushing the
music and other things. The limitation pushed the voice
acting, too. I think of some of the most
iconic sounds in video games. And it's Banjo Kazooie's voice.
It's Lynx voice that. Yeah, yeah.
From like the N64 Zelda's, you know, or Mario, like Mario's
triple jump. I hear in my head when I talk
about it, the progression of it, because it's, it had to be
memorable because they had so little to work with.
They had to make those moments stand out.
And to that point, something I love in Banjo Kazooie for the
sound design is there, again, a lot of what they do with these
things is they get the clip and then they can alter it and play
with it because you just have the thing and then you run it
through parameters. You know Grant Kirkhope is the
voice of Donkey Kong. Not because he's his voice goes
low enough to do. OK.
Because he just did it and then pitched it down.
And Banjo Kazooie, if you hold down the button to speed up
dialogue, their voices get higher because you're playing it
on Fast forward. It's so good I.
Love it. And so many of the voices are
just reused too and just pitched like Clanker is Banjo's voice
just really slowed down, which is amazing.
Yeah, and if one. Of these were actual dialogue,
it would be a monstrosity. Yeah, right.
It wouldn't work. It just it just it would not, it
wouldn't be the same meaning that.
Same feel like. Hey, wait a minute.
Like, you can't tell. You can't tell.
Especially as a child playing this game.
You can't tell that that's the same voice actor, just like,
pitched. Yeah, there's no way you can't
tell. Even now you can't tell.
That's like I got. I got no beef with the sound
here. That's just good design.
Music and sound is so important in this game.
It's so important that the main characters are named after
musical instruments. You have to collect musical
notes. Like, it was not an
afterthought. It was definitely a focus
throughout the game. Yeah, great.
And Grant Kirkop did an amazing job.
Too you're here. I remember we when we
interviewed Grant Kirkop and for our show and I mentioned that to
Sarah you you had you had a message you wanted me to impart
to him. That was was it The Haunted
Mansion music was was a huge part of your childhood.
Mad Monster Mansion. There it is.
Mad Monster Mansion No. No no, the the music in the DK
60. 4 the DK 64 I'm sorry. Oh.
Creepy castle, yeah. Yeah, that's right.
And it was one of the creepy, creepy Rare games.
I'm sorry. That's fair.
No, I thought I I was like, did I tell you to say oh, banana to
Grant Kirko? Because I don't remember that.
But that would have been really cool.
Yeah, I mean, this, this soundtrack I've championed
everywhere. And like, it's funny too,
because I remember, I thought I would only remember some of it.
And then when I replayed this game, like literally every song,
I remembered immediately I was grooving too.
And like. And yeah, I mean, Grant Kirkhope
was one of those like, pie in the sky dreams to interview.
And the fact that we got him on the show still to this day kind
of blows my mind. And like, it's because all of my
favorite games from this era, he did the music for or advised on
the music for and continues to work.
And like, you know, I think that this soundtrack is iconic
because the game is, but it's also because it and its sequel
have some of the best music and video games, full stop.
And like and not only does grant prove that with these
soundtracks and DK 64, but he also proves that with his like
remastered stuff. He re jiggy select songs from
the soundtrack and like. Each song is basically a yeah,
he's got vinyl version, like, and, and what's really amazing
is like Grant, Grant told us in the interview that he was in
metal bands and like, he's got a wide taste of music and like, he
flexes that muscle on this record.
One song is in the style of metal, one's more classical,
one's more dreamy, one's more retro.
Like, it really is kind of astonishing how malleable his
music is. Oh, those records are bright
green. Nice.
It's. So cool.
Yeah, it's. Freaking like the jump pad.
It looks like the jump pad. Yeah, that's amazing.
So one of the ones too, where they had like different choices.
So you can get some that were different colors, I think, Yeah.
Yeah, I got the spring pad. I made it look like the spring
pad. I'm like that's.
That's a great idea. Yeah, I.
Got this little upholstery sign which is.
Oh nice. And they totally goofed up and
he sent me two. It's 'cause he knew you were
jiggy. Look back.
Yeah, exactly. Probably.
And, and I will also say that Banjo Kazooie has probably my
second favorite pause music right after.
Let's see if I can find BOM BOM. BOM, BOM BOM BOM BOM BOM, BOM.
There you go. You don't have to find it now.
I don't have to. Find it this is actually it's
it's it's crazy that that we're talking about like just like the
music and how it's sort of ear worm is kind of the wrong way to
say it because ear worm almost has a negative connotation to
it. But there's only so much music
that I usually that I typically listen to a little too loud for
to play in the house with, you know, at the time that I was
playing this and since then, you know, under A1 year old in the
house. I'm not I'm not playing system
of a down. I'm I'm not doing it right.
I'm I'm just it's just not eventually he'll like it, but
not right now. So I, I, I find whether it's
Spotify, YouTube, whatever it is, and I find other versions of
soundtracks that I enjoy and this is one of them.
And there is a number of piano renditions and acoustic
renditions of this done by other artists and stuff.
And it's just great to listen to.
Like it's not exactly the same, but they put their fun little
spin on it. You know, some 11 in particular
that I listen to also has, you know, the original trilogy of,
of the Donkey Kong games in their own rendition too.
And it's very like acoustic like like when she plays the the
drums or the bongos in the Donkey Kong one, for example,
she's like just tapping like on the desk or on her seat or
something when and playing the piano.
It's just, this is something that is the music for this game
has been playing in my house since my son was born 10 months
ago. And it's like at least once a
week I'm listening to this from start to finish.
And it's just good background music.
It's friendly, it's fun and it's just, it feels good to listen to
it, even if it's not the original version and I don't
have it playing on the TV or whatever it would be.
It's it's just. It's very happy.
Yeah.
And at every level, which I think is rare, no pun.
Yeah, but every level has a distinct sound and feel to it.
Using somehow it changes using the same sound sound font, but
it every level feels like it's supposed to feel like right now
we're watching freeze Easy peak feels very wintry, feels very,
you know, Christmassy time like and it's all just happy.
And I think it's really rare in a game that every levels track
is good. Like usually you have a track
where you're just like that. That one's OK, you know,
whatever. I can't think of one that's just
OK. I really enjoy all of them.
Yeah. Yeah, so Matt and Jeff will tell
you this. I'm not a huge music person.
If it wasn't on the CD in my car in 2006, I don't know it.
Every time I got to a new level in Banjo Kazooie on this
playthrough, it was like core memory unlocked.
And I was like, why do I know this music so intimately?
I I play this game a couple of times, but not a ton.
Turns out I spent even on this playthrough over an hour in
every level, which means I listened to the music straight
for over an hour in every level. And I think that that part of
that is it's so good, right? You don't feel like the time
goes by because you're enjoying the music, you're enjoying the
gameplay. Oh man, I didn't think to ground
pound here. I was using the RB1, the pack
one. No, no, not the pack the. 1 lbs
here. This is This is a nub.
I pass pound. All the time.
You gotta jump. I do too, but it takes so long.
AB is faster, isn't it? Yeah, the PEC is.
Faster Oh. No, I was.
I didn't use the PEC, I used the the other one the like.
Shoulder charge. Oh, they're so.
Hard no, that's even slower. I try.
Jump back, jump backs. I trust the hit box of the
ground pound. In the water.
Yeah, that's true. That's true.
Yeah. Man, I like, I like this level
so much. The other thing is, while while
we were talking before I'm going to go back to a conversation we
had just a couple seconds ago. I found the mumbo jumbo text
from the manual by the way. Oh yes please.
And what it says, so it says a former teacher of Gruntilda's,
this mysterious shaman was betrayed by his pupil for he
could prevent her from putting his magic to bad use.
The witch transformed Mumbo's face into a mask of horror to
remain that way until the day she's overthrown.
Well, I'd like to say that maybe he'll be OK, but I know there's
a sequel game which I've also played.
And it looks so iconic. So they have to find an excuse.
We can't put it no. Yeah, although, wait, so this
brings me to the thing I teased in my intro, which is I thought
I beat this game as a kid because I didn't believe in
watching credits. So I got to the end and I turned
it off and I thought I'd beat the game this time.
I watched the credits and realized Nope, just kidding,
there's a final battle I've never seen.
Oh yeah. And you got to that.
And I was like, yeah, rare does that all the time, you know,
like Donkey Kong Country. You're like, I don't know.
That I didn't watch credits. I was like, I beat the game, I
got the credits, the end. Goodbye, turn it off.
So yeah, apparently thanks to you guys, I have officially
beaten this game the first time. No, no, no, no, wait.
Now wait. Did you 100% it?
No, I would have if I'd had two more days.
I I'm down like 12 jiggies and sorry, 12 notes and four
jiggies. Yeah, so I I got 100.
Percent it. Yeah, I did not 100% at this
time. Let's.
See, I got I got 100 a hundred Jiggies and 995 notes.
And I think I said either on your episode or we talked about
it previously another time, those five notes were driving me
nuts. I couldn't do it.
So I stopped. I just couldn't do it.
I just was like, I didn't want to look anything up you.
Have to start at the beginning every time and that's what makes
it really hard. Just Jiggies, you can go for it.
That's fine, Notes. It's real.
It's harder, yeah. And they were in the last last
World, which was much harder to get anyways.
Oh well, actually that's an interesting point.
Real quick, click clack. Would that last World, I didn't
recognize the music in it when I first got there.
I was like, did I never play this one?
No. The music is different in every
single season and so I didn't spend the same kind of time with
it. And that would be also too,
like, it's the same with just gaming in general around this
time and of that age when everyone's a bit younger and
stuff like, are you always getting to the end of the game?
No, not especially a game that is, you know, between 8 to 10
hours as a kid, you're gonna play over and over and over.
You're gonna start again. You're gonna, you know, it's not
always that way. Like, for me, I, I, I remember
beating this game a couple times.
But for the most part, it's those first few worlds that
really stand out. Yeah, of course.
And, and are and are great, just like the rest of them.
But like, that happens in Donkey Kong, that happens in Goldeneye
even, you know, like things like like, Oh yeah, I just keep
naming rare games, but you know what I mean?
As an example. Starfox 64 Starfox.
For. An area far more than you play
Area 6. Yeah.
Yes. And.
Yeah. So and to that end as well,
thinking about playing this as a kid, like Dave, you're talking
about like as an adult, as a parent, not necessarily having
the kind of time to throw into this.
I mean, if I played this as a kid, I probably would have loved
that. And I almost definitely would
have put hours and hours in because I'm very used to, you
know, you learn the idiosyncrasies you get over
whatever frustration points. Like I could sit here and go,
yeah, it's bad design or we've gotten better and this is the
best they could do or whatever else at the time.
But also, I was playing with a deadline for wanting to talk
about it here. So I also know that every time I
died and I lost 40 notes, 90 notes, whatever it is, it's
like, I just want to finish this.
And that is not the attitude you need for this game.
There are areas where I found, OK, this is just really sloppy.
Whatever controls or I'm upset about it, or I need to take this
slower. I need to take a deep breath and
it works. And that is also a thing to
where we're all on here talking about games and we're like, all
right, the next one's this one, The next one's this one.
We almost have a, we've given ourselves assignments and
deadlines and so this is a game that is a 8 hour game, but it
takes 25 hours to make it an 8 hour game.
It's. One of those that's, yeah, yeah,
if, if you're, if you're doing it the, the quote UN quote
authentic way, like you're saying.
And in that way, yeah, you're, you're probably going to replay
a few things here and there. And that's just how it goes.
Like my my play through says that it took me 9 hours and I
think 45 minutes or something to do that.
That stops and starts. That's probably a couple safe
states that I did here and there.
So realistically that's probably closer to 11 or 12 would be my
guess. But yeah, that's also more
familiarity than let's say yourself Jeff, where you're
didn't play it in the same way that I did grow enough that it
makes a difference. The first like 3 worlds I
breezed through as if they were just, you know, it's secondhand
knowledge. Like it's just whatever.
You know, yeah, you can all mock me and laugh at me and you
should, but also it's my first time with them.
And yeah, no, my timer is currently just shy of three
hours. And I know that some of that is
because I paused the game to make lunch one of the days.
And that's how I know the pause music is so good because.
At no point I. Even think of of stopping that,
I was just like, hell yeah, I'm like dance around the kitchen,
dude. That's great, dude.
Yeah, it's excellent. It's funny because it sounds
like it's almost like, you know, it's a ticking clock, kind of
like, come on, get back to it. But I don't really want to.
But it's not. Stressful.
It's not a stressful. Act and having learned a little
bit about banjo playing from some friends, I recognize this
is actually not that. It's extremely chill.
Yeah, because it's an actual banjo that they're playing, I
think. Yeah.
Or whether it's a real one or a synth 1.
Like the the writing of it is meant to feel like it, right?
Right. So before this playthrough,
Jeff, had you gotten to have you had you played it at all or was
it just like the basics, first world, that kind of thing?
I think it was more basics like the.
Opening a couple. Hours.
Well, yeah, well, I'd mentioned on the on our, on our episode
when we did the N64 retrospective that Sarah and a
friend of ours did an all day playthrough of Banjo Tooie,
right. That friend was the friend who
had Banjo Kazooie and Banjo Tooie.
And so I played it at his house a few times, but just more of a
like, oh, what's up with this? What's going on?
Like, sure, you know, I'm goofing around a little bit
while we're talking about other stuff.
And so like, yeah, I've probably clocked if I've done a full hour
total of Banjo Kazooie before I started playing it for this,
that would be a surprise to me. I will say, having now played
9:00-ish hours over a week and 9 hours in a day of Banjo Chewie,
I strongly recommend the former. Because with a game.
Like this, you get frustrated and mad at it and it's really
good. Like Jeff saw me do this last
night. I was like, you know what?
Nope, we're walking away. We're putting it down.
We're going to pick it up again in an hour.
I just now is not the time. That did not occur to me at 16.
Yep sure. Playing this for 9 hours
straight in my house, yeah. Would not recommend.
I can't play anything for 9 hours straight anymore.
I can't do that. Well, who has 9 hours straight?
But well, even if I did it. My my stream time for Banjo
Tooie I'm gonna be playing Banjo Kazooie this Friday.
Banjo Tooie. Each play session was around 7
hours. OK, so.
Do what's your opinion? Do you agree with my it's better
to play it a little bit at a time, or to sit down and play it
all at once? It's hard to say because I'm at
the point where I have both games pretty much entirely
memorized, so it's just me navigating through it.
Like I never get stuck. I never get, I never honestly
miss notes, which could happen on Friday.
I don't know, it's been a minute.
I. Think we're gonna be loud now?
Yeah, I said this was that job. Yeah.
How? Could you do that now only?
Worry about Rusty Bucket Bay maybe?
Yeah. I feel like that's the only
level that I'm like, but the rest now I'm inclined to.
I don't know. I'm inclined to agree with
Sarah. I think that like as someone who
played it over 2 weeks, because I got the controller and knew we
were going to do this now and so I had the runway far ahead.
Like I played a couple hours every night and it was actually
kind of really fun because it's a game that doesn't have
dialogue and long cut scenes. And like a lot of that, I would
sit on my couch playing it while my spouse Sarah would be on
Horizon iPad or on her phone watching something or doing
something, and then our dog would be cuddling with us on the
couch. And it was a pretty chill way to
play a game. Whereas other games that I'm
playing that are more bombastic or have a lot of dialogue or
cutscenes. It's kind of hard for us all to
hang out in the same room without all wearing headphones.
But this and there were sometimes I would still wear
headphones, but it was easier to exist in the same space because
of kind of how much lower key and old school it was.
And that was kind of nice. And that also allowed me to kind
of take my time and chill. But if I had to play this within
a handful of days, I probably wouldn't have finished it.
But because I was just slowly doing it, there wasn't any new
game at the time that I was like like urgently wanting to play.
I think I'd started the new Assassin's Creed at that time
and I was enjoying it, but I wasn't so enraptured by it that
I was like, OK, I can put it off for a little while.
I'll play this game and also like I got the rush of nostalgia
that I didn't think I was going to get because again, I think I
rented this. I definitely didn't own it.
I owned Goldeneye, I owned DK64I and I owned Mario 64.
I think this one, I mean, I owned a lot more games than
that, but I think I just I never owned this one and I definitely
didn't own TUI. I'm pretty convinced I never
beat Chewie. I might have played it, and so I
did. It's definitely on my docket to
also play the sequel because I know it's the favorite of many,
especially folks on this call. But.
Does Chewie also have a fake ending?
Because I might not have beaten it either.
I know I never beaten it for sure I know I haven't.
Yeah, but I, I also have to say, like thinking on this, the that
idea of spacing it out and I did put myself on a time crunch
here. I mean, a sure sign of that kind
of frustration and everything was finding Clanker's Cavern was
just as much a frustration point for me.
Where I'm like, I don't have the time for this.
Where, where, where is it or what kind of thing?
Where is when? Honestly, I was reminded of this
because Matt was saying like, you know, they don't have
anything else at the moment that they're playing.
I'm playing through blueprints right now.
I'm also playing 9 doors, 9 persons, 9 hours, whichever
order it is, 999 on my DS. Like I love my favorite game of
last year was Animal. Well, I love games that let me
explore that let me get into wherever it is and the textures
of the N64 blown up to uselessness notwithstanding.
The fact of the matter is I love the idea of like a hub world
where you kind of unlocking and going around.
Give me that, give me that. I love that it's so good, but
unlocking the unlocking a level in a completely different room
than where it is and then having to find where that is in a very
atypical design on a time crunch was so frustrating.
So this is another time. I will say that I think DK 64
had did it better in that I had a lot of fun unlocking things in
the hub world there because you it's punishing some of it's hard
and you get there and then you go into the level.
I think that Banjo Kazooie has this perfect mix of showing you
just a little bit too much or like you'll find something and
be like, this has got to be a level, but I don't know where
the puzzle piece is. Or you'll immediately find the
puzzle and put in the pieces and then be like, but where the hell
is that? Could be anywhere, I have no
idea. It's going to take me an hour to
figure it out. And I think that that
frustration is something we don't need.
Yeah, it's interesting. So.
So we, I, I don't know, as of, as we're sitting here, I don't
know which episode's coming out first.
So just take this just we, we played Grunty's Revenge and
Banjo pilots. We played the GBA games
associated with Banjo Kazooie and Grunty's Revenge is
essentially, you know, it's not the same game, but they are
trying to recreate a 3D experience on the GBA in, in, in
some ways. And that does a similar thing
where you turn in your Jiggies or your notes and then it goes
and shows you, hey, you've opened up, you know, the door to
the next World and, and almost the exact same way.
The difference with that one though is it's not as good of a
game as this, but what it does right is maybe it's just because
it's more 2D ish is that it literally the camera will follow
you on the path that you should take to get like the fastest
path to get to that next World. And it and it works because just
like the N64, like Jeff, you were just mentioning some of the
textures and stuff because they're doing so much with that
game on the GBA. It is kind of hard sometimes to
tell. And they are also working with
elevation which is hard to do on sort of a 2.5 D plane in that
game that. Issues with perception on this
one, the GBA 10. My God, yeah, if you think that
it's hard to land a a a jump or something like, Oh my God, that
game. Not that it's horrible, but it
yeah. It's not a bad game.
It's not a bad. Game, but they just can't it's
just hard to do on on that hardware.
So anyways, in comparison, within the same franchise, they
found a better way to do it, but I think that's almost just
because it's 2D. Maybe is the reason why.
But I do understand that that like just needing to go and
search for this door like to get to the next World is fun to go
through new parts of the hub world, but I I understand
because it's like well, I just want to get to the next one like
I'm interested what's what's the next World take me there I'm
having a good time. Why does it need to be a
struggle? Well going through the hub world
and taking a wrong turn also gives that metroidvania like
thing of oh but what's that? You know, I found my first
golden feather by overshooting the way to Clanker's Cavern and
finding the piranhas and like, well, I'm, I don't care if it
hurts me. I'm getting that I can survive
one hit. I'll knock down this other guy
and get my honeycomb back. That's fine.
Yeah. But like, that sort of thing
isn't as big of a worry for me, I think.
But no, I, I there is, there is a great joy and a great need of
like, no, I got to get there. I got to do it.
I got to whatever. So.
Yeah, yeah. I I I could see it, yeah.
I'll be honest with you, exploring in Banjo Kazooie, DK
64 and especially Banjo 2, E was probably 90% of my childhood and
the other 10% being you know, school, family, church, like
everything else like this, This is sleep yes Nope didn't matter
no, there is no sleep. I and every time I come back to
these games, I just do the same thing.
I was looking at my screen. It's really funny, I I played
conquer too and Conquer was like 8 hours straight and I just beat
the game in one sitting. Yeah.
Every time I get into these games, I do that and I just
love. I get enamoured and like thrown
into this world. I just absolutely love the
charm. The charm is off the charts.
That that's what keeps me going. Like if there is a frustrating
moment, which as as a couple of you have said a couple times,
like I, I get it, but I don't know.
I like even the later stages that I know I only played a
couple times growing up. At least, you know, a couple
being 3 maybe, and I didn't remember them as well as those
first few. I'm just like, you know what,
I'm just charming the fuck out by these, by this.
And it's the music that we've talked about.
It's, it's all the things that we've already talked about that
sort of add up to that package that makes it just fun, even in
the most frustrating moment. And I don't know, I just, I, I
just love it. It may be it part it part of
it's nostalgia, but also part of it is when you compare games
like this to the general vibe and feel of what a lot of larger
AAA games are now is that they're so dark, they're so
serious. Like this is it's a different
time. I get it.
It's it's over 25 years ago at this point, but at least we have
this and it's accessible where it's NSO whether you find a
physical copy or it's a ROM or whatever it is.
These kinds of games, I think they they almost hit more and at
times like this when we sort of need it.
And like, you know, I was probably playing this game the
most sleep deprived I've ever been in my entire life.
And that includes nights where I'd pull all nighters in college
and university, you know, and I still was, was powering through
playing Guitar Hero for 17 hours straight, probably with buddies.
This I was, I was playing sleeping half an hour over the
course of 24 hours. And still it kept me going.
It was fun. It was, it's colorful, it's
friendly, all the things we've been saying.
And like, there's just frustrate me all you want, I still want to
be in it, you know? I mean, yeah, no, this this game
came out in 1998 when there was a lot of attitude and.
Edge, yes, the 90s as well. You're right, yeah.
Yeah. And so the fact that this was a
game that like, OK, let me throw in a comparison.
Let's console war for a second. Let's do it.
This was around the time I'm going to look up when Spyro the
Dragon first came out because that is out of all the
collectathons, I would say that is the closest, like same year,
1998. OK, cool.
Yep. Like that's the sort of thing
where no one's stealing from each other's notes.
They're reading the same notes. But that's just that's art.
But The thing is, I love, I think I would say I prefer the
controls and draw distance and you know, having a Spyro having
things pop up on me and Banjo is an unfortunate artifact at the
N64. But The thing is, I get way more
annoyed with all the like, saving all the Dragons and
everything they have to say and how much it slows down and
cinematics on it. It's very slow and this is
snappy and this is as frustrating as it can get.
And trust me, I have many more expletives to say about the
camera. Oh my God.
Let's do it cuz, you know, you know what The thing is, the
camera is part of all of these games, especially it is for the
64, like the 64 can do so well with its controller, like we've
talked about and be the controller for the particular
game and be really, you know, hard to emulate in any other
way, modern or not. The camera is, is part of the
gameplay. It just is.
You have to manage it whether you like it or not, whether it
works for you or not. What what's up Jeff?
What's what's up with the camera?
I think, I think more than anything, if I had to pick a
singular thing of like I can change this or I can yell at
somebody and they can feel bad about it or whatever.
I could go to their home and flip over all of their
furniture. Like I don't wish I'll on them,
but I just want weirdness for them regardless.
You press the R button to move the camera directly behind
Banjo. This is great.
This aligns you. This allows you to maybe push a
little forward to you hold on to that, and you maneuver.
There are so many areas where you're too close to a wall for
it to do that. And so now you have to run
towards the camera and you can be ambushed, or there can be,
and all they have to do is remove the texture of the wall
and put the camera behind it. But they are so insistent.
The amount of times that I have jumped somewhere, done a
precarious platforming thing, done swimming, done whatever
else. In my limited experience with
this game, I've already had enough times where I have died,
nearly died, failed, and had to start again over and over
because something got in the way or wouldn't let me look forward.
Everything else is details interesting.
So yes. I want to hear your thoughts,
Sarah. I want to hear your thoughts
right now, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
So I again, I I find being good at the camera part of being good
at this kind of N64 collect a thon and I, I.
Not even just the specific game, yeah.
Yes, and the specific game too. On the Switch, I was using the
the right stick to use the camera, which was a totally
different experience. It wasn't centering it behind
me, but it was the opposite of how I use twin sticks on modern
games. So you're basically the camera
and if you move it right, it it moves the camera to the right.
So kind of actually left, and to Jeff's point about playing other
games, I'm playing Baldersgate right now.
So we went to go play Baldersgate and I kept messing
up the camera because I wasn't using twin sticks, I was using
Banjo Kazooie logic. And I'm used to that kind of
camera control. Like again, of course there's a
bit of get good to it and it's I think the amount of I know where
it's supposed to go and then it just goes.
But I don't do that. OK, but why though?
I don't do that. There's I could just go over
here and say no, no ball. Ball, I mean, I think part of it
also for me like so I agree with everything Dave was saying about
this being comfort food and I don't I didn't even play it as
much as Dave did, but games like this, I think if they hit the
right vibe, all of the other frustrations fall away, even if
you are actively frustrated in the moment.
But the thing about the camera, I think specifically and why I
understand why Jeff gets so frustrated is because Jeff has
already said that he played more PlayStation games of this era
than in 64 games. Whereas every game I played on
this era in this era was in this N64.
And this same stupid camera was in Donkey Kong 64 and Banjo
Tooie and Mario 64 and and the Legend of Zelda games.
And so once you like, it's not like Jeff has to master this
full stop because he hasn't played a ton of these kinds of
like he's played them, but he didn't play them as much as we
did. Whereas I I played Mario 64 more
times than I can possibly count. And so I just know how to deal
with this camera. Is it good?
No, by no means, but I'm just used to it.
It's secondhand knowledge. It's muscle memory in the same
way that I could probably play Corona trigger blindfolded at
this point and still beat it. You know, it's just.
Support doesn't frustrate me as much.
Well, I I think part of that also is that Mario 64's layout
is very is much more open than this game.
The game has corners and walls much more than Mario does,
right? You're going inside all the time
in this, right? And the second you go inside.
With with the camera cameras like.
Above you and then to the right. And and like, and to Jeff's
point too, it's the the wall that's there is just always
there on most of these games that they don't, they're not
able to program that out is what it is.
Right, whereas now it's like, Oh well, the camera turns and whips
behind the character, OK, we're just going to eliminate it.
They just if it's there, it's there.
If they built that wall, that wall exists.
That's it. That's what it is, right?
And and in some areas where it is a fixed camera, top down
view, whatever. Like, of course, like we're in a
specific kind of spot, like you can see the whole room, but it's
a top down. Like getting the treasure in
Captain Blubbo's ship going down there.
OK, fine. A little frustrating, but I see
what you're trying to do. Yeah, let me maneuver it and do
that. Like, right.
Those are specifics. That's great.
That's fine. It's interesting to me that you
said you use the R button a lot to focus around banjo because I
never do that. I think I very rarely did it
too. I very.
Rarely swimming or flying are the only applications I ever use
the R button for anything. And that felt very PlayStation.
Yeah, when you said that, when you said that I was like someone
who plays, I was. Thinking that too.
Yeah, I mean, that's fair. It's a.
Controller logic, yeah. And I think also part of it is
like. So I recently played, although
not so recently now Time is a Lake replayed Sonic Adventure,
which is another game where people claim to hate the camera,
but I I never had a problem with the camera and like the camera
is bad in that game full stop. Like I love that game, but the.
Camera is bad. It's worth the banjo.
But like but a great but because I knew the game so well, again,
it's I'm with Sonic Adventure like you are with Banjo.
You guys are with Banjo. I think once you know something
so well, second nature, it just even inconveniences don't
register as inconveniences. They probably still are.
And I think that's what's really fascinating.
And like I So for the record, on the record, I've never played
any of the guess games and they're getting a remaster and
so I'm excited to eventually play them.
But I can imagine that depending on how well they've remapped or
adjusted things like this happened to me with the Spy
Reignited trilogy. I liked it but I burned out
after the first game because some of some of the things core
to that game. It doesn't matter how pretty you
make it look, it's still frustrating and annoying.
Same with the the insane trilogy.
Right. Like, I love the Crash Bandicoot
games, I grew up playing them, but there was something about
still running at the camera and like the timing of the jumps and
like. I hate the running at the camera
thing. I can't.
My mind has never been able to. I can't.
I don't know. And so they designed.
That for those are specific stages and they designed the
challenge for that timing. But to your point about Spyro,
in the Reignite trilogy, they actually put an accessibility
feature for where the camera will auto follow you.
And I only found this because I put my 7 year old nephew on that
game and he just could not twin stick.
And I was like, you know what Internet?
I wonder if we found a salute. Oh, I just go do do boop.
Hey, see, see if you can play the game now, kiddo.
Much better. Yeah.
That's. Great, and that's great And so
one of those things where I think some of some of the reason
why I wanted to get the replica and 64 controllers because some
of the control for me is less about how good the game controls
and more about my muscle memory. That's clearly still existed.
Because again, the friction points that Jeff hit, I
absolutely hit as well. And though I was able to save
state my way through some of them, you cannot save state your
way through the swim. You can, but it's like it's
still not super helpful. Like for example, in Rusty
Bucket Bay, there's a Jinjo that you are expected to get early
because if he's your last, if he's the last one, you have to
get out and you you so when you. Go back to get the puzzle piece.
Right. And so there are for those who
may not know, in every stage there are 5 Jinjos.
When you get the 5th Jinjo, the puzzle piece, the jiggy shoots
up from that Jinjo and you grab it.
This jingo is underwater under a get through a hole in the gate
and you lose air in this oily water faster.
And so they pressure like in the guides pressure you to not leave
him last because then you'll have to get the jiggy.
Also. I had to save state inch by inch
my way through that to get it because I just couldn't go like
I couldn't get it. That's was so I was so mad doing
it. I was cursing the whole time.
The minute I was done with it, it was like my mind was wiped.
Like I just because of how how I feel about this game and the,
the, the vibe of the game, I just couldn't stay angry.
Yeah, yeah, Now it's as as a visual thing.
What we're watching on video right now honestly is actually
right about where I am in the game.
I literally just picked up that jiggy nice.
But that kind of narrow winding path maneuvering, not a problem.
Love that. And even with a single stick and
with the amount of sensitivity that the stick has, like if
you're trying to aim specifically shooting eggs, good
luck. There is like a little a little.
I've completely overshot. What are their?
Sensical directions and I'm in a different world.
And I'm in a different world kind of thing like that, that
those are the little like that can't just be Jeff, you don't
know N64. But there are absolutely no but.
And to everyone's point, like everyone else on this call, I
have the least amount of nostalgic muscle memory to this.
Sure. Like I have played through
quirky 3D worlds. I have played through, I have
played through the growing pains of three-dimensional
platforming. And these are just specifics to
rare and to the N64. For sure, totally.
Jiggy, you have so much love for this franchise and stuff like is
there something in like, I know Tui is like your game, like Tui
is the one that that's like that's your favorite of all
time. What's the thing that stands out
like to like in this particular game?
Is there something different about this to Tui that's like,
oh, not that it does it better, but that you feel like there's
something more like not more. I don't know.
I don't I'm trying to find the word.
I'm exhausted. I'll, I'll tell you, I know what
you're saying. Like significant, that sets it
apart. Sets it apart from the other
like is there something? It's a lot more balanced.
I think the thing about Banjo Kazooie that separates it over 2
E is the fact that every move you have in Kazooie has a
definitive point to it. There is a specific reason you
have that move and you can use it and it utilizes it throughout
the game like fairly well. Whereas in Tui you get a bunch
of different moves like fire eggs, like use fire eggs for
like a specific switch and then you don't really need to use
fire eggs anymore. It's cool you have it, but it's
just they just tacked on a lot of different things.
There's some moves that are like great additions, but I felt like
Kazooie is just much more balanced.
It's also much more condensed as far as like collecting.
It's more collect a thon focus than Banjo Tui is and I I don't
know that I necessarily like that more or less.
I'd like them both but they are quite different gameplay wise
and gameplay wise I just prefer TUI.
I think it does a lot of things that it's just smoother gameplay
wise like swimming. I I doubt Jeff would have an
issue with swimming in Banjo Tui as opposed to Banjo Kazooie.
After what I've learned in Kazooie.
Well, it's. After, but it's different.
It it's much smoother, it's much more responsive.
It feels a lot better than Kazooie where it's like you
have, so just an example, you have the B button, you press the
B button and you use Kazooie's wings and you do like a wide,
you know, whatever you're like effectively you're widespread.
Like stroke? The big stroke, you're kind,
you're doing. And then yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then you hold, you hold the A and you do like a little doggy
paddle sort of a thing or a little bare paddle, I guess.
In Banja tree, in the, in the bear, you hold both buttons
together and you can do them at the same time and it makes you
faster and the control is much more precise.
It, it basically negates collecting Jinjos and anything
underwater. It makes it so much easier
there. In fact, there's an entire
underwater level and they get rid of oxygen in that level.
So it's like all your Greg. I hate underwater levels.
I hate them. I absolutely despise them.
Banjo Tooie has the only underwater level in the history
of gaming that I actually enjoy. This is.
Legitimately and I cannot wait to see it.
Yes. And 64 collect a thon has to
have a punishing water level. It's like the rule.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
But I will say that game and and this included, you go underwater
and the music is great. It's great.
Every game. Every game just sort of has like
that cool cave vibe, if that's even the right, you know what,
like there's just, it's that. Space Caverns of Mystery.
Yeah, I want to weigh in on that difference between this and
Banjo Chewie thing real quick too.
I I really think it's about the moves like what you were saying,
Jiggy, but like the cadence in which you get them in this is so
rewarding because you beat a level, you've just figured out a
thing and then there's two new, there's three new moves to get
and two new moves to get. And it keeps it interesting for
those first couple of levels. But also not like, oh, man, am I
going to have to win? I've learned so many because
what is by the 4th level, you have all of them.
Yeah. And then it's figuring out how
to use those in creative ways to find jiggies that aren't
broadcast to. You they do a great job with the
anti peace kind of idea of in each of these worlds, giving you
the 2-3 whatever moves and then like, well, I'm gonna try that
out and they give it to you like it's you get ample time to play.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it.
I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah.
I was gonna say it culminates in the in the boss fight too.
The final boss fight utilizes all of your moves at some point
in the battle and Banjo Atui really doesn't in fact, we
actually use moves differently sort of that that we have, which
is actually that happened in DK 64 as well.
Yes, it did. When you get to the key roll
fight, you use the moves in such a creative way and it was just
because someone, I think it was someone from the banjo team came
in like help them make that boss fight and dipped and didn't like
wasn't involved in any other part of the game, but just was
like, Oh yeah, I hope you make this K rule boss fight made it.
It was like amazing the the way you use the moves so creative,
so different. And it's like the rest of the
game. You never use those moves like
that and it's so sad because it is awesome.
I don't think Tui's quite as extreme as DK 64 in that aspect,
but you do use different moves in different ways at the end.
Whereas Kazooie, you're using it straight up how you would use it
in the levels you're progressing.
You're just getting better at using them.
And then the final boss fight just culminates in Test your
Skills and it gives you if you get 100% of it.
Or I guess you don't technically have to get 100% of everything,
but get almost everything and you can get a health bonus to
assist. Nice.
And some and some item bonuses actually too, so.
Yeah, I think I got those and I was and I was only 5 notes away.
So you don't have to get everything.
I'm sure it was even just close. Less than that, yeah.
That's pretty. Close.
Speaking of item bonuses, we haven't talked about Cheeto at
all yet. That's oh.
Yeah, Cheeto. OK, let me say this.
I have spent hours upon hours looking at Cheeto's model trying
to decipher the runic language on his page.
I know that's extra, but I it means nothing.
OK, I just want to say that out loud here.
I have like put it in like I've looked up several different
runic languages I've tried. It means nothing.
It's gibberish. OK, damn, really?
I feel. Like you should write well, are
you the right person to write a cipher to figure out what it
could mean? Well, I'm definitely putting in
more time than probably anyone else on the planet, so I'm
willing to bet. Anyone's the expert?
Yeah, but yeah, sorry. Why?
Why I brought up Cheeto is I was a kid who wasn't allowed to have
a game shark. My parents thought it was going
to like break the game or something.
I don't really know. I never had cheat codes, I never
had things like that. But this was the first game I
ever had a thing in the game that told me what it kind of
thought was. Cheating that.
Broke the game in a cool way. I was like, whoa, what do you
mean go enter red feathers on this thing and I get more.
Wow. Yes.
Yeah. I was also the person that never
had guides, never had game short like nothing like I just it
doesn't it doesn't I I don't know that that I I need it
because I played this game so much, but I do love the idea
that it's there it's fantastic yeah I.
Really. Did did you guys do stop and
swap? No I didn't do stop and swap.
No one has done stop and swap like ever.
No, I think I. I'm aware of it.
I've. Never.
Oh my gosh let me close my door. My dog is like freaking out.
This is a stop and swap. It's the greatest gaming mystery
of all time. OK, the.
Feature that never fully was. Yes, the feature that never
fully was and they sort of like utilized it on the Xbox version.
So essentially what Rare wanted to do was get this feature.
They they always planned on making a sequel to Banjo Kazooie
and they also wanted this interconnectivity between all
their like 3D platformer games. The DK 64 was a part of that.
Basically the N64 RAM could retain 20 seconds of memory
after you yank out the cartridge.
So their intention was you set it up, you go through this menu,
you initialize it, RIP out the cartridge, put another game
cartridge in and you could get items from like Banjo Kazooie
into DK 64, Banjo Tooie into Banjo Kazooie.
Like you could do this like reverse connectivity thing.
Sounds amazing, right? Nintendo sounds.
Like it did not work ever. Nintendo was like hell no,
that's not going to work, especially after like the first
generation of N64. They did revisions on the
console and that RAM time that they were relying on shot down
to like 4 seconds or something and they're like this is going
to cause people to break their consoles.
Please don't please don't do this OK, so it just lived in
this thing like Oh yeah, that was an idea and the game after
you 100% it teases you about stop and swap and it shows like
a little video, which is that what you're watching right now
I'm. Just watching someone trying to
do it I think is what I find. Mumbo has like photographs and
they play little videos showing these giant eggs with the
question marks on them. And like little kid me, it was
just like, yeah, I had to hold it for that long and went Fast
forward in time. So it's like nothing happened.
Nothing became of that. People like got into the code of
the game, figured out that there were passcodes that you enter in
the sandcastle that can unlock the stop and swap sections or
segments. So essentially they expand a
small portion of the world, like different levels, different
levels. So they expand the world and you
can go in and you, it gets this fan, this epic fanfare of music.
Well, that's not real. What is this?
That's not true. I don't know what you're
watching, right? Now I don't know.
It's just stop and swap. I don't know.
History stop, swap. It's telling you.
Yeah, that would be amazing. But you get this epic fanfare
and then you can go collect the big eggs and you can collect the
big ice key that's in Waz's cave in Freeze, Easy peak.
There's like a little section behind the Jinjo where you can
see this key spinning. That's the only thing you can
actually like physically see in the game without without
knowing. And you're just like, what's
that key? So you can collect it And then
you get a menu that says stop and swap and it shows all the
eggs and the key. And so you just have to enter
the codes in the in the sandcastle.
So if you like, you need to get 100% and then you need to do it.
That's the mark of getting like true Banjo 100%.
And then Chewy, since that idea was just totally botched,
they're just like, OK, we're just going to like incorporate
these mystery eggs in a different way.
And so you can like collect a few of them and you get like
special moves and power ups and stuff, which is cool.
But the Kazooie like mythos of stop and swap is epic and it
just keeps growing over time because they keep finding more
games that were like, oh, I was going to implement it in.
So DK 64 had like a vending machine originally in DKS tree
house where it'd be like it has the banjo Kazooie like Sprite
held icon on it and you could like I I don't know what you
could do with it, but it'd be epic.
It's so cool to find that stuff and rarely was.
Very much about that. Kind of like putting Easter
eggs, and in this case literally between their games.
So the schoolyard rumor of it all, Like screw mew under the
truck. This.
Oh that. I was wondering how you got back
there. This thing?
Yeah. Yeah.
It's the only thing you actually can't get to.
That's what. Yeah, you're right.
That's right. I forgot about that.
It's funny too, like I the first time I encountered naughty the
the the Beaver and like had to go into his house to get I was
like, oh, it's the same one from the Donkey Kong Country games
like. I just.
I love that those characters have crossover and that like I
was sad that the squirrel you encounter is not conquer, but I
understand why. But like, but there's a vibe,
right? He overeats, he's goofy, right?
Like there's still a vibe, but like like the fact that there
were specific characters from Donkey Kong in this game too.
Like I just I love that they hint at that.
But you can find little things in Goldeneye or Perfect Dark
that relate to other games. Like I love that they have that
connected universe. I think it it's one of the
strength. I'm pretty sure even in Sea of
Thieves, like there are little nods to stuff.
Yes. And still like yeah, cool.
I just, I love. Like there's nods to this game
because of the you know they have a literally a pirate themed
world and right like I can't remember what it is
specifically. But you guys ever watched watch
It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia?
Oh yeah, sure. There's a there's a meme of
Charlie like doing the whole like red line and it's like
that. So I did that with mapping the
rear universe. If you've never seen my video,
it's just me going through all the games, like finding all
these Easter eggs in like connectivity between them.
Yeah, it, it took a long time. This is epic.
It's some. Of my favorite stuff in gaming,
like connected universes, like it's why I love the Alan Wake
games and control and the remedy.
Like my God, I just I love when games acknowledge.
I like when things acknowledge other things.
It's really simple. But like, even as big of a deal
as it was when like in Avengers when Iron Man says to Hawkeye
clench up Legolas, like Legolas exists.
In this world, right reference. Right reference.
They said the thing like I genuinely do love that.
And I think like my it was a little very early instilled in
me with the crossover here from all the rare titles and like the
fact that they still do it. And if they ever do make a banjo
three or something else or whatever, like they will honor
what came before, right. They did it in like a very
tongue in cheek way with nuts and bolts and it was very like
fan antagonistic a little bit, but like they were fresh
frustrated at that point, right. And like I think they you always
will find the spirit of rare in their games, good, bad or
indifferent. And I really do love that that
they really do put everything that they are as a studio and
what came before into each next thing.
Yeah, and I think that's part of the reason why people miss this
era and these games, and not just because they're well made
games, but there's just that extra bit of, you know, love
that is very easy but very easily recognizable in their
games. Whether it is something that's
like perfect dark, which is more serious and literally darker
and, you know, it's a shooter, there's still personality in
there that you don't you don't quite get.
And even other games in this era, there's something about
what Rare has put together that just works.
And I that that is what what this particular game and, and,
and Tui as well, but I played that a far less, but that's what
this particular game has always been for me is that personality
and vibe and why I have that music on in the house at least
once a week. Like those things.
Yes, it's nostalgia. You know, Matt, you mentioned
that more than a few times and it's, it absolutely all part of
why we even sit and talk about these shows in general and these
games in general. Our podcast is like, you know,
you just you just want to be in that space again.
You want to be in that feeling again and that vibe and that
time and every aspect of this game screams that to me.
It it's it's picking up the little gold feathers that we
just saw the little little chime that it plays.
It's it's Kazooie doing the the ground pounds.
It's just, it's the voices like we were talking about.
I, I'll, I'll sit and listen to them talk no problem.
But no text. That's fine.
I'm good with that. And you know, the, the whole
like interconnectivity in a game like Banjo, I feel like Banjo is
a good starting point for that sure, because it's so family
friendly. It's so like every kid played
it. And because of Banjo, because of
the references I saw, and to another, probably even a larger
extent, Diddy Kong Racing, because that kind of extends
into Banjo and Conquer. I immediately wanted to play
those other titles because of that.
So this introduced like going into Banjo Tooie.
Oh, what's that poster on the wall?
Jet Force Gemini? That looks scary to me.
Maybe I should try it someday, you know?
And it did, but it expands, it helps expand their own universe
and their audience like simultaneously, which is super
cool to me. Yeah, we're a studio that has
design sensibilities that work throughout.
And yeah, there's been plenty of genres that I got my in through
I franchise a series of studio that I really liked that they
carried those design ideas into everything they did.
So it's like, yeah, sure, I'll try this, beat them up.
I'll try this horror game, I'll try this certain kind of puzzle
game, whatever it is. And yeah, Rare, definitely,
especially in the N64 era that that was them.
Fun fact if you look at this bottles picture it does puzzle
challenges but when you first do it he actually refers to you as
barrel boy and he says OK barrel boy or some or or Kazooie refers
to it as barrel boy and seemingly it was supposed to
originally be a Donkey Kong picture frame.
That would be. Disappointing.
It's horribly disappointing that it's bottles now, but yeah,
whatever. Or.
Like or like a picture of the whole DK crew sort of together.
Like even if you had like the intro or something, it would
have been awesome. Yeah, that'd.
Be cool. Like they're all friends.
I was like watching these chop and swap eggs.
I'm like, those are all spots. I was like there should be
something. Here, yes, and there it.
Is like my mind. Is absolutely blown y'all.
Yes, I do also want to quickly comment on Dave's nostalgia.
So as of when we're recording this, just yesterday they shadow
dropped an Oblivion remaster. It's they remade Oblivion, one
of my favorite Elder Scrolls games.
And while it's not super related to this per SE, to the nostalgia
side, like I got into a minor social media TIF because I made
a meme about ignoring Claire obscure Expedition 33 for
Oblivion because like, this is a game I grew up playing that I
love and it caught some heat. There was a misunderstanding.
It's cool now, it's fine. But what's funny to me is like,
it was a joke because it was a joke, but it's a joke because
it's praying on my nostalgia. I booted up Oblivion last night
and got through the sewers and played that first area.
There is no way to explain how nostalgia is a warm blanket when
you're playing it unless you're experiencing it, and that's what
I had with Banjo Kazooie. Also, replaying Oblivion last
night, I only played like an hour or an hour and a half, but
it like, it like energized me in a way that I can't even explain
because it just felt, I just felt warm.
I felt like I was home in a way that only certain games can do.
It's whenever I boot up the Mass Effect trilogy, I get the same
thing, right? You remember all the thing, like
all of the moments of your life that you played this game if
you've played it many times. And I think that's what you
can't really translate from Banjo Kazooie unless you feel it
right, because it's one of those kinds of games.
And like, while I get why people were like, oh, but this is the
re release of a giant studio that's been screwing up lately
and this new, you know, this new RPG from a small French studio,
It's a big deal. You shouldn't ignore it.
And I totally agree with all that.
I think Bethesda has been screwing up left and right.
And like, I don't want to reward them for their behavior, but
they also did a pretty great remake of a game I loved and I
wanted to play it. It was nothing against Clara
Obscura. I'm still going to buy that
game. I love turn based RPGs and I
love modern takes on turn based RPGs and I'm excited to see how
they do it. It was literally a joke.
Praying on my own nostalgia and this this, this indescribable
feeling of returning to something you love and it
immediately feeling right in a way that new games may give you
a new experience that also can feel as great, but it's a
different kind of great. It's not the same thing, right?
I Super Mario RPG is a game I returned to in times of tragedy.
Just is when I got laid off from a job, I played through it.
When I lost a family member, I played through it, right?
I replayed it recently and because I had all those memories
tied to it when I replayed, when I played the remake for the
first time, it was like I was replaying the classic because
I'm just so tied to that music, that experience, those moments.
And so like, I think that's what Banjo Kazooie carries more and
I'd be curious to play Banjo Tooie now because I'm definitely
less familiar with that game, if it'll transitively give me that
feeling because it's the same characters, it's the same style,
or if it'll be a whole different kind of experience.
But I that's what I love most about revisiting it and blasting
through it in two weeks and like getting every jiggy and getting
every note and getting those power ups and beating the game.
By the way, screw that boss fight.
I hate that boss fight against Rentilda.
It is such a pain in the ass but.
With save states it was nothing. Yes, correct.
Wait till you play the GBA one. Wait till you play the GBA one.
If you do, it is oh. We're gonna.
Yeah, they they, they try to do
the same thing. And it is.
Yeah. If you don't think this one
works, oh boy. I went in and I I played some of
Kirko mods. Oh yeah.
And I did the Jiggies of Time and I played through that on
stream and essentially the Gruntilde fight is the same,
except for some reason it's sort of broken and a little glitchy
sometimes. So what kept happening happening
to me was I would get through all the phases and I'd get to
the point where you have to like shoot the eggs into the Jinjo
statues to some of the Jinjinator.
And if they just, they wouldn't go in, like I'd be sitting there
like shooting the eggs. And I died like 20 times.
But you know, I don't quit and I don't run and I will be Hokage.
So that's how I approach it. You will be.
I I believe that. Believe it.
My my question now goes to to to Jeff, are you are you going to
continue? How hard do you think you might
get or? I I told you I've got it paused,
that's if I was done with that I'd have turned it off and said
good riddance. I did say I.
Released Clanker. Let us never speak of this
again, because that was how I felt in the moment.
But fair nails. But I also want to take some
time to actually play the game in a way where I can learn these
ways of moving around, where I can give it that time.
And I want to see if I still feel the same.
I'll report back. Also watching this footage right
now. I've been thinking it the whole
time. You can't tell me that those
mumbo skulls don't look like handsome Squidward from a
distance. They do.
They do, absolutely, without a doubt.
Wow, now that you say that, absolutely.
Yeah, yeah. Again, without the benefit of
nostalgia. And I definitely have those,
like weird Polygon things for my youth where I go.
What did I think that was? Yeah.
I. Didn't, I didn't understand Kate
Sith's profile picture or his, you know, whatever in Fantasy 7
until like a few years ago, Like I didn't get your ankle right
kind of thing. So this I have no nostalgia.
So they look at it, I go, is that handsome Squidward?
Camping is that. Is that?
Oh no, he's hot. Oh wow, that.
Sounded just like a good. Job that was excellent is but
before we before we all go to bed, I feel like we have to hear
a little bit from Kazooie and what Kazooie thinks of our
thoughts on the game. I don't know if I don't know if
Kazooie's around at all anywhere.
Wow. Thank you.
Thank you for that insight. Yeah, that's good to know.
Well, there you go, everybody. We had Kazooie with.
Us, you didn't have to curse that much, but you know she's
what she says. You know, it's it's, it's OK.
She's. Not under contract anymore.
I remember, I remember when I found Kazooie.
Kazooie was a girl. I was like, whoa, yeah, there's
like, no, there's no like I was. Like whoa, I really felt.
Woke. I How 90. 1998.
I told a nine year old that has played through a couple of
Metroid games that Samus was female and how it's sort of
revealed and things like that. And he was just like, just look
like what someone with a weapon is a woman?
Like that's basically what the look was.
I was like. Oh my God, My nephew plays Smash
Bros and he played a Samus. And I was like, I was like,
yeah, Samus is a girl. He's like, no.
Well, and on the flip side, our nephew is convinced that Tails
is a girl. I mean, I can fair.
Yeah, I get it. Very hard.
I mean boys, so too. Tails kind of has a has a voice
in some like newer yeah content I guess, whereas for.
Us and each tales is literally voiced by a woman in but.
It's not to be a child, That's right.
Yeah. It's meant to be a child, right?
Right. That's funny.
Bart Simpson was also a woman, yeah.
Exactly this is. Yeah, it's true.
Yeah. I have to tell how I got my
Banjo cartridge really quick just because it's it's
legendary. As a kid, the PS2 I think had
just come out OK and I had played Banjo Kazooie at my
friends, but I didn't own it. My friend got his PS2 and they
wanted they wanted money and we were just like too young and too
stupid to know like understand money.
And so he told me he would sell me his Banjo Kazooie cartridge
and I asked him how much and he said a dollar.
And so I went over and I gave him a dollar and he gave me this
cartridge. And you have it to this day.
I actually don't. I do have a cartridge.
It's in the back, but I had to reacquire it.
That's a sad story, but it was funny.
His name was Dante. Shout out to Dante, and he had
it in big like Sharpie on it. Dante was one of those, so I
just had this big cartridge that said someone else's name on it.
It was awesome. But the video playing reminded
me before we wrap up, I do have to say that I love the
transformations in this game. They none of them are not they
are all adorable. I don't know why I was going
with no with double negatives, but like the bumblebee, the
alligator, the all of them they're.
I love the alligator. I love the alligator, Yeah.
I would sounds you. Know he's the best one cuz he
can. I love that.
Little mini game. Yes, mini games fun too.
Yeah, sorry, Jeff. We're just seeing more of them.
Yeah, I was like, I haven't seen all of them, but I have no
misses yet and I'm looking forward to seeing more.
Yeah, they, they, they just find fun ways to implement them,
right? Like, you know, it's, it's just
another way to add some variety to a game that already has, in
my opinion, a decent amount of that right.
Again, something else they tried to do in Grunty's Revenge and
they do a little bit different with it, but and they take ideas
from Tui as well, but I don't know the, the, the slight and
jiggy we're talking about a little bit.
The slightly more simple approach to this game is a very
welcoming part of it too, that if you want to start with a game
similar to this or in this genre, it's either this or
Donkey Kong, I would say. But maybe even this one, cause
'cause I think it starts less overwhelming than what Donkey
Kong 64 starts with and and continues to be and, and maybe
it's not quite as long, but I don't know, that's just my from
my experience playing the two somewhat close together.
Doesn't say doesn't mean one's better than the other, but I.
Don't know, I did Donkey Kong first.
I I feel like that's I don't know.
I appreciated Banjo more because it was like Donkey Kong, which
it would probably just be the reverse.
I don't know. Yeah.
But I it definitely made me like Tui more because I played Donkey
Kong 1st and I I if I had to rank them I would actually go
Tui DK Kazooie just personally. OK, yeah, I would say I I think
that Donkey Kong is a more accessible starting place
because of what I said at the beginning about it telegraphing
where you need to go and what you need to.
Do that's that's. In a more real way, whereas this
game you learn what the language of it is and where things can be
hidden. But I I think it's harder to
figure out as a kid on your first play.
Through with as a kid as stupid. There's no way.
Only as a kid though, definitely.
Made a few years. Definitely not.
Definitely has nothing to do with the the now, yeah.
Lateral movement. I do also like that this game,
the transformations like many times you had to go outside the
stage transformed because that breaks video game logic.
At this point in time. Right.
Like you would never think like I can only use the power up in
the stage I. Mean, but the way this he walks,
I love it. He's like, I love this.
Little waddle like a Corky. Yeah, basically.
It is a Corky. Little bumble butt I think this.
Game broke a lot of like expectations we had built based
on game design and let you like kind of see outside the wall a
little bit in a way that many more games would do after this.
And, and I think it was kind of a pioneer in that way too.
Yeah, and and early 3D, you know, is, is awkward.
This generation is awkward. It is say it all the time.
And, and I think Matt, maybe Jeff, you guys, you know, you
both of you mentioned it earlier, but like to to pull off
a great game during such an awkward time and not have the
game feel awkward is success in itself.
I think. Yeah, it doesn't have to be
perfect. But I mean, if you you pull that
off and it's and it's, it's impressive, I think.
And that's this, that's Donkey Kong.
That's a number of games that we've mentioned over the last
little while, so. I think it should be said to
like. Going back to this, it holds up
pretty well even even graphically like.
Yeah, yeah. It just the charm is still
there, the gameplay's solid. Like regardless, I think
everyone has to kind of acknowledge that Banjo did way
more right than it did wrong, regardless of how you feel about
it. It's.
What it did wrong will haunt me, but I agree.
Yeah, I mean, it's what we said in the N64 episode, right?
The the polygons that were stylized and cartoony will hold
up way longer than anything that was quote UN quote real.
Jeff and I on sister podcast Flashback 64 played Goldeneye
for it, and as much as I love that game, it holds up terribly.
It looks awful because they were going for realism, this game.
And and yes, the Switch is doing a little bit of Zhujing, but not
very much. It still looks great because
it's cartoony, it's blocky, it's very precise in its design.
Whereas games that were meant to look real quote UN quote at this
time have aged like sour milk. Yeah, that that's me currently
playing through Perfect Dark where it came out a few years
after this. It's trying to do a lot more
than Goldeneye does. But to me, so far in the first
half of the game that I've gotten to, I was like, this is
extra muddy and extra dark because of what they are doing
with it and has the expansion pack and they're trying to do
even more. And it's like doing more.
Maybe wasn't what it needed, but I I know there's there's more to
it than just simply like, hey, this is a texture.
But this still, whether it came out the same year as perfect
dark or golden eye or whether it it didn't, you're right that
that stylized approach works. The the it's called cartoony.
Call it whatever you want to call it, It just works.
Even Mario 64 works like that because they're not trying to be
real people. And then we get to make fun of
that in Mario Odyssey when we see the Mario next to the real
people in that one city where you can take over real people
with your hat, which was a problem in my opinion, but it's
OK. It's so weird.
And you know, I think this also shows rares evolution on the
console because graphically, if you look at Mario, OK, so let's
say first 3D platformer on the 64 and that's what it's known
for. So let's compare Apples to
apples Mario. He's he's segmented, right?
It's it's cylinder, cylinder circle, essentially Banjo's not
like that. Banjo's connected.
It all stretches and it's animated, it pops, it expands,
it's it's way more cartoony. And you know, as you progressed
through that, I think they just got better and better at it.
One could argue Conquer probably looks the best.
Though I could also argue 2E2E looks the best because it does
support widescreen, so suck it. Oh, does it?
Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, it does indeed.
That's awesome. That's I didn't know.
That it's the first game I played where I was like, Oh my
gosh, my shadow looks like my shadow.
That was the. That was it.
That was a big moment for me. I've said that so many times,
but it's so true. Yeah, perfectly.
I had that that option and the options I was like, whoa, this
can be white. I was like, yeah, I don't
remember that at the time because hell no, I didn't have
anything that was white screen when that was there was a kid
that. Had white.
Screen. Yeah, exactly.
I didn't have Internet. I don't know.
What this is? But I know I want it.
Yeah, we didn't have Internet until I was.
In high school, like we had, we had red and green diodes.
No blue. What?
What, you think we're Rockefellers and they loved it?
I I lived a a sheltered life everyone not really I was I was
OK they also. Remember being a kid being like,
What's the difference between mono and stereo I.
Was. Like I probably want mono.
That sounds cooler. I thought the same thing, for
what it's worth. So I so I think I said this on a
different Funny Games episode, but the way I learned the
difference between mono and stereo and everything else.
So the first I might have known beforehand, but the definitive
was a game called Shipwreckers on the PS1 that the options menu
full of character game's not great, but full of character.
It's a pirate game. And so the options menu, the
sound was a crow's nest. And so Mana was one pirate,
Stereo was 2 pirates, Dolby was three pirates.
And they would each say R when they got in there.
And so on top of each other, so Dolby, they actually sounded
like crowded because one of them was getting knocked out of it.
So just like R like sounds like that's awesome.
That's a great, great way to do it.
Yeah, that's. That's a great way to do it that
would have made so much more sense.
Exactly. It's unequivocal.
And they say video games don't teach us anything that is.
Flat out lie. No, my parents.
My parents are wrong. Video games are great.
It's not a phase. I learned something from video
games. OK, Yeah, it's.
Definitely not a phase though. I'll have to tell them that
tomorrow when I see them. It's still not a phase, it's.
Still not a phase. Still not a phase.
Mom still not a phase. Mom, Joe, I do still play games.
Deal with it. Yes, my son will also play
games. Deal with it.
Whether whether he likes it or not, he's playing games.
OK, everybody, let's let's get some rest.
Thank you very much everyone for being here.
Fun and games, podcasts out there.
Matt, Jeff, Sarah, where can everybody find that fantastic
work that you continue to do? Sure.
Go ahead, Jeff. Well, Fun and games can be found
as part of the certain POV network or you could go to
funandgamespod.com to find all of our episodes.
We are fun and games pod across the social media that we're on,
which is Blue Sky, Instagram and Tumblr.
Technically, we are if you are interested in what we do, we are
a conversation and interview video game podcast with an
optimistic view of gaming from the idea that every game is
somebody's favorite and no one can play anyone.
No one can play every game that's out there.
So I loved us to share our experiences and we have a series
called Side Quests with different hosts talking about
the game they love and why they love it.
Different hosts every episode. You can find me and my opinions
on things across those same social media platforms at Jeff
Makes Noise. Jeff, Geoff.
For me, you can find me at djstormagdon.com for the stuff I
do outside of fun and games. I also have a podcast called
Reignite, which is currently playing through the Dragon Age
series. We debuted as a Mass Effect
podcast, playing through the Mass Effect series.
All through the lens of playing as these characters that you
create and making choices as if we would make them.
And more importantly, especially in Mass Effect, which aliens we
would kiss because those are the most important questions to
answer. We are currently playing through
Dragon Age 2 as a recording and really enjoying revisiting that
game and you can find that as well.
I host that with the incredible Frankie Bradley Lestrange.
If you want to hear my thoughts and memes on the Internet, best
place is Blue Sky. I'm DJ stormageddon.com on Blue
Sky as well. You can also e-mail all three of
us at our first names at funnygamespod.com.
Fancy URL, fun stuff. And yeah, that's the best place
to interact with me online. And you can find me at Sarah
Moon and on Blue Sky. Nice.
You can also find my voice acting stuff on jeffmona.com.
Hey there we. Go.
It's good stuff. You want to check it out.
I mean, yeah, Jeff was able to hook us.
Up. We're going to.
Take Zoe. So yeah, it's true.
That's just. That's just 'cause I like birds.
I. Said that's just networking.
Really, that's just networking really.
I was going to say it, it was, it was actually Kazooie.
More like nest working. Damn it, I wish I could just
leave it there, but. But I guess I got to ask Jiggy
what he's up to. Jiggy, how's it going man?
I guess. Oh, it's going, you know,
dropping things left and right, sometimes to lots of fan wear
fanfare and sometimes to little fanfare.
Just depends. Just I just dropped a super cool
video about Super Smash Brothers Melee going through every single
stage and looking for secrets and kind of moving around with a
free Cam tool. It's pretty cool street.
I'm actually going to be streaming Banjo Kazooie myself.
This episode's going to be airing like after that's done,
because I imagine I'm going to be, I imagine I'm going to
attempt to beat this in one sitting.
Maybe I'll break it into two depending on how I'm feeling.
But I, I got a couple Celsius stacked up in the fridge.
I'm like, you know what? Let's let's make it a good
night. Let's do it.
I. I just learned what a Celsius
was a couple days ago. I had no idea.
You're so old. Yes, yes I am.
I'm so sheltered in the last. I don't.
I don't want to stop my drink, those I don't feel as bad.
Bowl or something, I don't feel as bad so especially the green
tea ones I trick myself into thinking that's healthy.
Of course, of course. It's all, it's all healthy.
It's all carbonated in a can. It's healthy.
That's, that's yes, as long as it tastes healthy, it must be.
That's it. I should say that I am doing
Mambo May, so I'm gonna be doing a lot of rare content coming up.
Nice, nice. So.
And just for the record. Add this to it.
There you go, just another just. Another wait.
This is part of it. This is part of it.
You just didn't know it. I didn't know it at the time,
no. Honored to be part of Mumbo Bay.
Same same. I celebrate it every year.
Oh, that's even May. I didn't.
Sign up for this. There's a there's a picture in
the discord for you guys, it's great.
Oh, I saw it. It's haunted.
Yeah, why would you curse us with this knowledge?
Why? Well, I was supposed to go to
sleep. Jiggy.
What the damn it? Nightmares.
Forever. You got to stay up a little bit
because it's switch pre-order night.
Yeah, I know it's it's only a little.
I'm a sucker and I'll get it eventually, but I but.
Now's you're almost there. Now's not the time.
No, it's. Not just got to know, it's not,
it's just a matter of could you get the pre-order if you wanted
to like don't aren't you curious to find out?
You got. To know you, got to know you.
Got to know. What am I going to do with it?
I just brag about it. It's breaking rights.
But I got it and I gave it to someone else and I didn't take
it like. I mean, yeah.
Sell. Sell it to a friend for a
dollar. Yeah, that's the obvious answer.
The best story ever. Your friend will love you
forever. You'll be forever that person
that they talk about randomly on a podcast like 20 years later.
And that's really why we do anything in this world. 100%
yeah. And and I know this is usually
said as like a joke, but like in this economy, so you know,
that's so that's tricky. Look back on YouTube and of
course, remember 64 right across social media, which is just
pretty much blue sky and and Instagram and every once in a
while on Tiktok, if I decide to remember that I have it and post
silly videos and shorts. So there as well.
And of course, I remember 64 show is where you'll find
everything and also on YouTube, so you can find the video
version of this some gameplay. Sometimes I'll put up those
silly videos also on YouTube and I stream every once in a while.
So keep an eye on social media for when, because unlike Jiggy,
I do not have the energy or the Celsius or the time to be able
to do it on a regular schedule. So every once in a while I'll
pick an evening and say, hey, it's 8:00 PM, it's 9:00 PM, I'm
going to play Perfect Dark, I'm going to play Banjo, whatever it
might be. So keep an eye on that.
And of course, patreon.com/remember 64 show and
get all the episodes early, this one included, and the follow up,
which will also have the other Banjo Kazooie GBA games as well.
So really good discussion on those as well and some extra
content. So check that out, but that's
pretty much it. Everyone, thank you for coming
with us this far on this journey.
Getting to 64 and being able to just talk about this game and
this series of games feels great.
I'm happy that I randomly decided to do this on some
January evening and said, you know what, I'm gonna see if I
can do anything with the the N64 and, and here we are so great
people to do it with great games to play and more to come.
So thank you very much everyone for joining us and thank you for
having us. Of of course, it's honestly
could not have had a better crew to put this together, so thank
you very much. You know what the best thing
about this is? Yes.
No, this is this is level 64. We're going through Banjo.
We still have so many heavy hitters to go through.
I know, I know. I mean, we, we've, we've put out
so many. Like I, I'm trying to think I
always forget what, what that game was.
What is the game where you're running around?
It's like GTA3 body harvest. Body harvest, yeah.
We put out like Body Harvest, you know, but it's like you
haven't even talked about Ocarina of Time yet.
Nope. Like we talked about so many
games. It feels like so long, and now
we're on 64 and we get to Banjo. Yeah.
It's like we talked about so many games before Banjo, which
is like one of the most popular games.
This is awesome. There's there's so much to play
in so much stuff that me specifically, I never played
because I had the typical games. So there's a lot to explore and
still more more to play in. Shogi pretty soon.
Yeah, that's right. We we have and we're gonna be
playing some some mods and stuff.
That's part of the plan for this game specifically.
So keep an eye on that. But yeah.
Stay tuned and rate the podcast. Rate the podcast There it is.
Jiggy remembers Jiggy. Remembers sometimes.
Yeah. Oh, and then that like subscribe
thing, people do that too, right?
So. Yeah, yeah.
Sometimes, yeah. Sometimes, yeah, sometimes.
OK, everyone, thank you very much for listening and watching.
We'll see you next time on Remember 64.
Remember 64 is part of the Super Pod podcast network.
Oh yeah. We are teamed up with a whole
bunch of awesome people that some you may have heard on
remember 64 already, but there's a bunch of different great
gaming shows anywhere from fine time to bar silence to retro
wild lands. You can of course find the Super
Pod Saga on there. Press B to cancel all of these
awesome shows. That's we're just here to talk
about great times with games, share their thoughts with you,
our experiences with you. Check us out Superpod Network on
your podcast app of choice and superpodnetwork.com where you
can find all our shows, blog posts, videos and more.