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Welcome to Remember 64. 
We're this week. 

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We're playing. 
Do I even have to tell you? 

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Welcome to the show everyone. 
This is a very special episode. 

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Yes, that's right, we have 
booted up Goldeneye 007 for the 

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Nintendo 64, likely one of the 
most influential games of the 

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generation of the 90s, and, some
could argue of gaming in 

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general. 
Jiggy look back is in the 

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cohosting chair once again. 
But to be honest, it's not 

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myself or Jiggy that make this 
episode as special as we think 

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it is. 
It's because we have Elise Nor, 

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associate professor at Regis 
University and the person that 

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has written the book on 
Goldeneye 007. 

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She is the author of Goldeneye 
007 from Boss Fight Books. 

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According to the website, it 
says quote through extensive 

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interviews with Goldeneye 
creators, writer and scholar 

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Elise Nora traces the story of 
how this unlikely licensed game 

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reinvigorated A franchise and 
genre. 

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Learn all the stories behind how
this iconic title was developed 

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and why Goldeneye Double O Seven
has continued to kick The Living

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Daylights out of every other 
Bond game since. 

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And because of all this, we're 
going to be doing something a 

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little bit different. 
Yes, I usually intro the show 

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just like I'm doing now, but I'm
not going to go through the 

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history of Goldeneye and its 
development. 

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We have a lease with us if 
anyone knows anything about 

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Goldeneye and the development of
it, she is the perfect, perfect 

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person throughout this book, 
which myself and Jiggy read. 

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Highly recommend it by the way. 
Never mind, just this podcast, 

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but it's something that is 
definitely worth reading, you 

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know, She spoke to a lot of the 
people that created this game at

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Rare, and it's just such an 
extensive look at what this game

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means and how it was created. 
So instead of taking the time 

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and listening to me talk for a 
few minutes, we're going to 

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bring a lease in in just a 
moment. 

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And we're going to have a full 
on discussion about the game, 

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its development, how it relates 
to the movie, how it relates to 

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the franchise, what it means for
society, what it meant then, 

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what it means now. 
Oh, we just have a whole lot to 

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go through. 
So it's time to cover one of the

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biggest games of the Nintendo 64
and the 90s. 

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Goldeneye 007, Thank you very 
much for listening to Remember 

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64, a proud member of the Tokyo 
Beats Podcast network. 

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Today's show is brought to you 
by epos Gaming Audio. 

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Do you know how to use one of 
these? 

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Goldeneye. 
Load a rumble pack and see how 

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it feels when 007 meets N64? 
Well, we usually have a pretty 

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long spiel at the beginning of 
our episodes. 

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I usually talk everyone's ear 
off with the, you know, 

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development of these games and 
how were they, how they were 

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created and everything. 
But instead, this time we were 

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lucky enough to have, I would 
say, an expert on the show. 

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I would say if there's anybody 
to talk about Goldeneye 007 on 

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this console, it's going to be 
Elise Snore, the author of the 

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Boss books. 
Book about Goldeneye, about its 

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development, about everything 
around Goldeneye. 

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Elise, welcome to the show. 
Thanks so much for having me. 

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It's great to be with y'all I 
am. 

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I'm so excited because not only 
is Goldeneye obviously a very 

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big game when it comes to the 
N64 and really just the 90s and 

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this generation of games, but to
be able to talk about someone 

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who did so much work in order to
make this book and talk to so 

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many people that helped develop 
it and everything, it's it's 

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really exciting. 
Jiggy man. 

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Like I don't know I I can go for
the next like 10 minutes be like

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I'm excited, but I'm assuming 
we're we're in the same button. 

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Yes, absolutely. 
And I'm here, by the way. 

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Yes. 
And you're here. 

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So at least let's, let's talk a 
little bit about, I'm going to 

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ask you about you about how you 
came to writing a book like this

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because we were sort of, you 
know, joking before we hit 

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record that, you know, me and 
Jiggy are experts at the N64 

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games, which I think we're just 
going to own it. 

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We're going to run with it. 
But we're giving you. 

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Yeah, exactly. 
We're giving you the expert 

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title on on Goldeneye, double 
the seven. 

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And you know, a lot of people 
can sit here and be like I 

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played this game or any other 
game over and over and over as a

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kid. 
But it's different when you've 

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dug into the history and all 
that. 

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But but how do you get to even 
get to this point of writing a 

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book like this? 
Well, so I've always been a big 

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fan of games. 
I I played my first game before 

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I could read or write. 
My dad sat me down in front of 

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Super Mario Brothers Three and 
Doom and Mist and Day of the 

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Tentacle when I was tiny. 
So I grew up with games. 

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I've always loved games. 
Can I stop you right there to 

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ask, Yeah, please, what was your
first video game? 

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It was Super Mario 3. 
It was Super Mario. 

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What a glorious way to start. 
Sonic the Hedgehog. 

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Sonic the Hedgehog. 
Excellent. 

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Also excellent. 
Also excellent. 

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If we're all sharing your mind. 
Yeah, mine is not a standout 

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title because I didn't get a 
console. 

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I mean the first one that I 
think I owned and I played 

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rather than like watching 
someone play, let's say Super 

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Mario Three or something like 
that, was this like old F1 

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racing game that was on our PC 
that you would just control with

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the arrow keys or in maybe was 
indie probably. 

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Arrow keys, Yeah, that's. 
Amazing the magic controlling a 

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game with arrow keys like 
forward was gas and the back 

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button was break. 
Like it was that kind of thing. 

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Literally, you just used for 
keys and it almost looked like 

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this, you know, wire frame 
representation of the cars. 

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And he's only sat in the seat. 
I think, honestly, I think it's 

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just called like Indy 500, like 
that's all it's called. 

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I don't know how we had it 
because my parents do not play 

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games, never have. 
So I don't know where it came 

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from. 
Maybe it was just preinstalled 

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on whatever, you know, little PC
we had. 

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I don't know, whatever. 
That's the first one I remember 

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that I actually sat there and 
played is probably that. 

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Yeah. 
Yeah. 

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Incredible. 
Yeah, incredible. 

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Interrupting. 
I just was really curious. 

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Yeah, I love it. 
Please, please interrupt. 

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So I just, I always loved games.
I went to college and studied 

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creative writing in journalism. 
I became a English professor. 

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I was living up in Alaska, 
starting to get into my, like, 

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you know, late 20s, feeling a 
little nostalgic about the games

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I grew up playing. 
And I saw a call from boss fight

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books for proposals about video 
game, for books about video 

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games. 
They release, you know, one like

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standalone titles about 
individual games. 

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And I was thinking, like, you 
know, mostly I write poetry, but

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it would be really fun to apply 
those journalism skills, to 

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write a book that says 
documentary work and memoir work

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combined on a video game. 
So I wrote a book about Super 

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Mario Three, since that was my 
original favorite game of all 

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time. 
And then a few years later I was

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got the itch again to do some 
more video game writing and I 

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pitched the editor gave a book 
about Goldeneye. 

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So sort of drawing together my 
video game fandom, my love of 

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writing, memoir and creative 
work and also wanting to put 

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those those journalism skills to
get use and and keep those fresh

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with interviews and research and
documentary style writing. 

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That's that's awesome. 
I will say too. 

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I I don't know if you have any 
involvement of any of the 

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authors have any involvement in 
like what even like the books 

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look like. 
But the Super Mario Brothers 31 

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literally has a real raccoon 
just on the front of it, which 

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is just fantastic. 
And then the artistry that kind 

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of goes into the I guess there's
there's two editions of the 

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Goldeneye one there's a regular 
then there's a deluxe and the 

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the look of them are both very 
cool. 

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Like it's it's very simple art. 
But I just want to point out 

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that if anyone looks it up, I 
find them very charming. 

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All three of those, so. 
Oh, thanks. 

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Yeah, they did. 
A pretty cool job with that too.

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Sort of. 
I think the first few seasons 

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that he doesn't in seasons gave 
during the endor of Boss. 

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First few seasons of Boss by 
books. 

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The covers all have a real life 
representation of something 

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that's you know, graphically 
rendered in the game. 

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So in my case for Mario it's the
raccoon. 

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But there are plenty of other 
really great and hilarious 

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examples of sort of like real 
life animals or objects on those

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covers. 
And lately he's been going for a

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more stylized, which I think 
looks equally great, sort of 

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more more graphical looking art.
And in the case of the hardcover

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of my book, something that was 
hand drawn by our wonderful 

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cover designer. 
Yeah, it's it's it's really 

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cool. 
Yes. 

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Like even like the the real life
ones, like the Resident Evil 

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ones as a typewriter, like 
that's great. 

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I love. 
Yeah, yeah, like that. 

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That's really fine. 
Like a really old school 

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typewriter, too. 
Like, it looks like it's from 

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like the 30s or something. 
So that's awesome. 

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The paperback. 
I should just, I should just say

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in case people can't see it, the
paperback of Goldeneye. 

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I just think it's the funniest 
thing. 

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It's it's a guy in a boulder hat
with his back to you and a 

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little. 
Like a little crosshairs right 

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above his head. 
So it's supposed to be odd job, 

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you know? 
He's like just just too short 

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for yours. 
So that just cracked me up that 

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we were able to do that. 
I was like, this. 

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This is everything. 
I always agree. 

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They definitely know what. 
They're doing when you know you 

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know, right? 
Like, you know, you know, OK, so

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let's, let's talk a little bit. 
Let's talk about the game that 

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you mentioned. 
Obviously you've been playing 

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games your whole life. 
Let's talk about like the 64. 

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You know, for certain consoles 
kind of hit people at a certain 

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age and they just sort of stick 
with them, right. 

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00:12:16,250 --> 00:12:20,450
And the 64 has this great like, 
you know, nostalgic feel of 

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getting people together from. 
I would say that the the 

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standout games unless it's, you 
know, Zelda or even Mario 64, 

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like yeah, you could swap 
controllers and all that kind of

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stuff. 
But you know, sitting down, 

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playing Mario Party, sitting 
down, playing this game, what 

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was your experience with the 
with the 64 as you as you grew 

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up? 
It came out when I was 9, and 

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this was a perfect age because I
had grown up on the NES and 

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Super NES and fallen in love 
with games like Mario and Donkey

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00:12:47,500 --> 00:12:51,420
Kong, and I loved adventure 
games and platforming games. 

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And so when the N64 came out, I 
was sort of maturing into the 

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those more complicated games 
like Mario 64, you know, Star 

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00:13:00,140 --> 00:13:03,380
Fox 64, Shadows of the Empire 
and of course Goldeneye. 

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And then going into, you know, 
middle school and high school 

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and then even on to college, it 
was just the perfect golden eye.

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00:13:08,900 --> 00:13:11,940
In particular, the perfect game 
to to play with your friends, to

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play at sleepovers. 
Of course, we've all had these 

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00:13:13,620 --> 00:13:16,220
wonderful experiences of playing
with our best friends and our 

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00:13:16,220 --> 00:13:18,100
siblings. 
In my case, my my college 

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00:13:18,100 --> 00:13:21,260
boyfriend and his roommate and 
my roommate. 

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00:13:21,260 --> 00:13:23,820
It was just such a great party 
game and I think the N64 in 

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00:13:23,820 --> 00:13:25,820
general, you know, really 
facilitated that. 

225
00:13:25,820 --> 00:13:29,060
We also played a lot of Mario 
Kart, a lot of Super Smash 

226
00:13:29,060 --> 00:13:33,100
Brothers, and it's just. 
You know, actually I have some 

227
00:13:33,100 --> 00:13:35,660
friends from out of town from 
from North Carolina right now in

228
00:13:35,660 --> 00:13:37,860
my house. 
And last night the four of us 

229
00:13:37,860 --> 00:13:42,500
were all in our like 30s and 
40s, gathered around my old N64.

230
00:13:42,940 --> 00:13:46,160
Sitting on the floor. 
And played Goldeneye slappers 

231
00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,880
only and we were just laughing 
so hard. 

232
00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,600
My wife like one, she's never 
beat a video game in her life 

233
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,320
and she beat all of us and 
slappers only. 

234
00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:59,120
So I do think the N64 is you 
know that as as you talk about 

235
00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:01,680
on your show a lot is just it's 
the ultimate like party 

236
00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:03,680
friendship. 
OK. 

237
00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:08,840
Just just going off that, so 
multiplayer, were you good? 

238
00:14:11,180 --> 00:14:13,020
No, OK, OK. 
No, absolutely. 

239
00:14:13,500 --> 00:14:18,740
Not like to ask because I suck. 
No, it's very hard. 

240
00:14:19,740 --> 00:14:22,580
I think that I was always the 
one, sort of like launching 

241
00:14:22,580 --> 00:14:25,860
grenades and then blowing myself
up by them or walking into my 

242
00:14:25,900 --> 00:14:28,300
own minds. 
I was like, decent. 

243
00:14:28,300 --> 00:14:30,300
Like I would never be last, but 
I would definitely never be 

244
00:14:30,300 --> 00:14:30,980
first. 
Yeah, yeah. 

245
00:14:31,260 --> 00:14:32,660
Yeah. 
That's true for. 

246
00:14:32,660 --> 00:14:34,980
That's true for all the games. 
I'd always try to gear 

247
00:14:34,980 --> 00:14:38,060
multiplayer things back to Smash
Bros because it could dominate 

248
00:14:38,060 --> 00:14:41,480
in Smash Bros, but. 
Yeah, you know, we gotta, you 

249
00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,080
gotta, you gotta have variety. 
But I'd like to win. 

250
00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,600
Totally. 
I mean I've never been a super I

251
00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,480
I talk about this in the Super 
Mario book, but like I've never 

252
00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,680
been a super competitive person 
around. 

253
00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,480
Like beating other people. 
Like that's never been a thing 

254
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,240
that gives me a lot of a lot of 
joy. 

255
00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,240
I am very self competitive. 
So anything that's going to be 

256
00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,160
like those timed missions in 
Goldeneye or the the single 

257
00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,680
player campaign, like wanting to
level up past agent to double O 

258
00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:09,480
agent or you know double 007 and
all those extra objectives. 

259
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,840
Like I like long distance 
running and not sports with 

260
00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,120
balls and points. 
Like it's always just kind of 

261
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,960
like about endurance and 
completion for me. 

262
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:19,640
So I did. 
I did really love the single 

263
00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,640
player campaign too. 
Yeah, I mean, and that's the 

264
00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:23,880
thing. 
And he's just, it's some of the 

265
00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,560
notes that I that I wrote down 
as I was reading the book to 

266
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:32,080
where it really is the single 
player is what we'll get more 

267
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:33,520
into. 
We'll probably be jumping all 

268
00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:35,480
over this game and stuff because
there's just so much to talk 

269
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,070
about. 
And like I said, we you're here,

270
00:15:38,070 --> 00:15:39,310
so we're going to talk about 
everything we can. 

271
00:15:40,030 --> 00:15:43,790
The single player is is 
something that for whatever 

272
00:15:43,790 --> 00:15:47,110
reason, when I was saying like 
even telling myself when I 

273
00:15:47,110 --> 00:15:49,910
started the show, that you know,
when we get to gold and I have 

274
00:15:49,910 --> 00:15:52,990
this distinct feeling that I'm 
going to have this nostalgia 

275
00:15:52,990 --> 00:15:55,830
more for the single player than 
I do even for the multiplayer. 

276
00:15:57,270 --> 00:16:00,350
Not that obviously everybody 
seemed around this time to to be

277
00:16:00,350 --> 00:16:03,030
playing multiplayer on this, 
whether it's 2-3 or four people.

278
00:16:03,030 --> 00:16:08,830
But the sort of create your own 
fun type of thing that is like a

279
00:16:10,070 --> 00:16:13,350
really big thing you can do in 
open world games now or even 

280
00:16:13,350 --> 00:16:15,270
other FPS games that have come 
out since then. 

281
00:16:15,270 --> 00:16:18,230
Like Halo is a prime example of 
games like that, I think because

282
00:16:18,230 --> 00:16:20,550
of the mechanics. 
And this is one of those games. 

283
00:16:20,550 --> 00:16:23,670
But it's clear that in the book,
as I'm as you're you know, 

284
00:16:23,670 --> 00:16:25,830
writing about all the 
experiences and how these guys 

285
00:16:25,830 --> 00:16:28,230
made this game and how this, how
Rare made the game, that's 

286
00:16:28,230 --> 00:16:31,600
exactly what they wanted. 
In some ways I think I grew up 

287
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,040
thinking like, oh, we're 
breaking the game quote UN quote

288
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,240
breaking the game. 
Or oh, we're we're just messing 

289
00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,840
around with the mechanics. 
And they didn't really want us 

290
00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,160
to do that with the Minds or 
they don't really want us to do 

291
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:42,480
that with the Rockets or 
whatever. 

292
00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:46,120
But that is what they wanted. 
And they it seems like they just

293
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,560
left things in there to have fun
with. 

294
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,360
And they left things in there 
that were goofy, like things 

295
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,760
that we thought were funny, they
thought were funny, and that's 

296
00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:55,520
why they were in there. 
And I love that. 

297
00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,920
Absolutely, absolutely. 
They were so motivated by fun, I

298
00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:03,040
mean, it was 8 guys, only two of
whom had ever worked on a game 

299
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:04,800
before. 
So they were all these rookies. 

300
00:17:04,839 --> 00:17:06,359
Crazy. 
They were just going based on 

301
00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,520
what they loved and they were 
playing games with each other 

302
00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:09,760
the whole time. 
They were playing Super 

303
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:14,359
Bomberman and Doom and so they 
they lived and really worked in 

304
00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,599
an environment of play all the 
time and they play tested 

305
00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:18,760
everything with each other just 
to see if it was fun so. 

306
00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,680
That really comes through and 
they talk about how there are 

307
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,319
these sandbox elements of 
Goldeneye, that some of them are

308
00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:26,800
intentional, some of them are 
unintentional messiness they 

309
00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,080
left in. 
Whether it's sort of like you 

310
00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,400
know little things that you just
noticed that are little Easter 

311
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,840
eggs that are super fun or the 
ability to like shoot a soldiers

312
00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,960
hat off of his head and they the
hats can start stacking and you 

313
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,400
can do weird things and juggle 
hats and that. 

314
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:44,080
Like the the kind of multiple 
routes through a level, multiple

315
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:48,730
ways to beat a level. 
All that kind of like low fi, 

316
00:17:48,730 --> 00:17:54,530
open world concept was super 
influential on the game, being 

317
00:17:54,650 --> 00:17:57,250
as fun to choose your own path 
as it was. 

318
00:17:57,690 --> 00:17:58,850
Yeah. 
One of the things that I 

319
00:17:58,850 --> 00:18:02,650
remembered as I was reading was,
and as I picked up the game 

320
00:18:02,650 --> 00:18:05,390
again was everything explodes. 
Like everything. 

321
00:18:05,390 --> 00:18:07,790
Yeah, everything. 
Everything. 

322
00:18:07,790 --> 00:18:08,990
Everything. 
That's the. 

323
00:18:09,350 --> 00:18:10,430
Chair. 
You should have chairs. 

324
00:18:10,510 --> 00:18:12,830
Yeah, yeah. 
It's just, oh, OK, you know, 

325
00:18:14,150 --> 00:18:15,550
Yeah. 
And some stuff that makes sense,

326
00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:17,070
makes sense. 
So sure, the computer's. 

327
00:18:17,070 --> 00:18:19,070
Going to be right. 
You want to know what I picked 

328
00:18:19,070 --> 00:18:21,990
up right away? 
I was like, oh, I remember this 

329
00:18:22,030 --> 00:18:24,790
drawing pictures on the wall 
with the bullet holes. 

330
00:18:25,750 --> 00:18:27,230
Yeah, and I was like, you can 
write your name. 

331
00:18:28,030 --> 00:18:30,710
Yeah, I wasn't writing my name. 
I definitely drew a penis. 

332
00:18:30,750 --> 00:18:33,750
And it definitely was like a 
thing that like immediately. 

333
00:18:33,790 --> 00:18:35,470
I'm like just. 
You have to do it. 

334
00:18:35,470 --> 00:18:37,830
It was like all this takes me 
back. 

335
00:18:38,870 --> 00:18:43,230
You absolutely have to, Yeah. 
Yeah, it should have been like a

336
00:18:43,230 --> 00:18:45,350
cheat code or so. 
It could have got you, could 

337
00:18:45,390 --> 00:18:48,270
have got you one of the cheats. 
It gives you a special gun. 

338
00:18:48,270 --> 00:18:51,270
That would be funny. 
Remember the prison level that 

339
00:18:51,270 --> 00:18:54,790
you start in, There's definitely
like urine stains on the wall. 

340
00:18:54,790 --> 00:18:58,910
You can see it like they've 
drawn that into the art and 

341
00:18:59,070 --> 00:19:01,500
they're very. 
They were very prurient 

342
00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:03,020
themselves. 
There's quite a few things in 

343
00:19:03,020 --> 00:19:06,660
there that are like naughty 
schoolboy humor as they call it.

344
00:19:06,660 --> 00:19:11,380
Like the DD the DD Destovi 
pistol was named after double D 

345
00:19:11,380 --> 00:19:15,260
bra size slappers. 
Only is actually slapper is a 

346
00:19:15,260 --> 00:19:18,300
reference to prostitutes. 
It's a British slang for 

347
00:19:18,460 --> 00:19:20,500
prostitutes. 
And then that line where 

348
00:19:20,500 --> 00:19:24,780
Moneypenny in the pre mission 
briefing says she says like. 

349
00:19:26,110 --> 00:19:28,110
Be careful with that chopper, 
James. 

350
00:19:28,110 --> 00:19:29,590
And she's she's referring to the
helicopter. 

351
00:19:29,590 --> 00:19:32,470
I never got that joke as a kid, 
but it's because I guess an 

352
00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:34,150
England chopper is slang for 
penis. 

353
00:19:35,870 --> 00:19:37,230
Yeah, I I think so. 
They had. 

354
00:19:37,270 --> 00:19:40,550
I rewatched the movie. 
I think there's a line very 

355
00:19:40,550 --> 00:19:43,830
similar to that because they 
sort of do a back and forth in 

356
00:19:43,830 --> 00:19:44,950
the one scene that they're 
together. 

357
00:19:44,950 --> 00:19:46,230
There's something similar to 
that. 

358
00:19:46,230 --> 00:19:47,990
Yeah, but but that's the other 
thing too, right? 

359
00:19:47,990 --> 00:19:51,830
It's very easy as a kid to just 
skip over those, like mission 

360
00:19:51,830 --> 00:19:55,650
briefings, but they're written 
really clever, you know, like 

361
00:19:55,650 --> 00:19:58,890
there's there's some stuff like 
that I easily would have missed.

362
00:19:58,890 --> 00:20:00,690
I don't know, chopper. 
I knew a chopper was a 

363
00:20:00,690 --> 00:20:02,450
helicopter. 
That's what I Even now. 

364
00:20:02,650 --> 00:20:06,130
Honestly, until until I read 
that in your book, I never would

365
00:20:06,130 --> 00:20:07,690
have. 
Made It's very British. 

366
00:20:07,690 --> 00:20:09,330
I mean, I didn't, I didn't get 
it. 

367
00:20:09,530 --> 00:20:12,130
But yeah, they put all kinds of 
really, really silly little 

368
00:20:12,130 --> 00:20:14,730
things like that in there. 
And they a lot of the time they 

369
00:20:14,730 --> 00:20:16,890
were literally they told me in 
interviews just trying to see 

370
00:20:16,890 --> 00:20:20,530
what they could get away with. 
And sometimes, and sometimes, 

371
00:20:20,570 --> 00:20:23,970
like in the case of David Doke, 
including himself as a character

372
00:20:23,970 --> 00:20:27,010
in the game, they were told no, 
The developers told them, or 

373
00:20:27,010 --> 00:20:29,810
even just the inclusion of a 
multiplayer option, that their 

374
00:20:29,810 --> 00:20:33,890
bosses at Rare said absolutely 
not, you may not do this, and 

375
00:20:33,890 --> 00:20:37,610
then they just did it anyway. 
I love that. 

376
00:20:38,010 --> 00:20:40,850
So just like looking at the 
beginning of your book, talking 

377
00:20:40,850 --> 00:20:45,010
about the history of Rare, the 
history of the game, I love that

378
00:20:45,010 --> 00:20:46,730
they didn't want to talk to 
James Bond. 

379
00:20:47,690 --> 00:20:49,810
They were like, no, no, we don't
want to do a license game. 

380
00:20:50,620 --> 00:20:54,460
And I'm like, in my mind, I'm 
like, that's instant money grab 

381
00:20:54,460 --> 00:20:57,060
cuz you get auto recognition. 
But they were like, no, it's not

382
00:20:57,060 --> 00:20:59,540
original, like it's not 
something we wanna mess with. 

383
00:20:59,540 --> 00:21:01,620
And I'm like, that's so 
interesting to me. 

384
00:21:02,300 --> 00:21:05,940
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think they 
were. 

385
00:21:06,500 --> 00:21:09,580
It was rare, kind of at the 
height of their powers. 

386
00:21:09,620 --> 00:21:11,940
And they were getting cocky and 
they were for good reason. 

387
00:21:11,940 --> 00:21:15,390
They were making beautiful games
and they were really, really 

388
00:21:15,390 --> 00:21:19,270
interested in aiming high and 
only taking on really high 

389
00:21:19,270 --> 00:21:23,910
prestige projects. 
And so they, you know, that's 

390
00:21:23,910 --> 00:21:25,950
how that's how I end up giving 
the project to these rookies, 

391
00:21:25,950 --> 00:21:27,790
because they were like, what? 
I guess this will just be 

392
00:21:27,790 --> 00:21:29,830
something for the new guys to 
cut their teeth on. 

393
00:21:29,830 --> 00:21:32,430
It's not gonna matter. 
It's a it's a movie license 

394
00:21:32,430 --> 00:21:33,790
game. 
That's like a kiss of death as 

395
00:21:33,790 --> 00:21:37,290
far as quality. 
Those games are always so bad. 

396
00:21:37,810 --> 00:21:40,850
And still, and honestly, that's 
still a stain that that sticks 

397
00:21:40,850 --> 00:21:42,330
around, right? 
In a way, yeah. 

398
00:21:43,210 --> 00:21:45,370
It really doesn't. 
For it's not, I don't think it's

399
00:21:45,370 --> 00:21:48,050
as evident as maybe it used to 
be, but fair enough. 

400
00:21:48,050 --> 00:21:49,690
I mean, I feel like I would 
question it too. 

401
00:21:50,490 --> 00:21:55,690
We say this and then I just like
I remember that stigma of movie 

402
00:21:55,690 --> 00:21:57,730
tie in games, and I remember 
there were a lot of them. 

403
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,320
But I also remember a lot of 
good ones that were so much fun.

404
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,800
Spiderman Two comes to my head. 
I was like that game was so much

405
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:05,880
fun. 
I was going to bring that one 

406
00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:07,800
up, yeah. 
I like there were a couple 

407
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,600
Matrix games that were really 
fun. 

408
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:17,400
Yeah, there was just like, it 
wasn't it, You know, it's a 

409
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:22,280
stigma because the bad ones that
were bad were really bad, But 

410
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,520
there were gems out there, like,
you ever played The Incredibles.

411
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,820
I know that that's a little more
Disney Pixar. 

412
00:22:29,780 --> 00:22:34,940
Slaps. 
I did play a Peppa Pig on the 

413
00:22:34,980 --> 00:22:37,900
Xbox with my 4 year old the 
other day and it did not slap. 

414
00:22:38,100 --> 00:22:41,020
It did not slap for me, but it 
slapped for her and that's what 

415
00:22:41,020 --> 00:22:42,460
matters. 
Yeah, that matters. 

416
00:22:42,740 --> 00:22:45,780
When that Next up is apparently 
a Bluey game too. 

417
00:22:45,820 --> 00:22:48,140
And Bluey's, you know, that's 
great. 

418
00:22:48,500 --> 00:22:49,780
So that that could be kind of 
cool. 

419
00:22:49,780 --> 00:22:51,700
Bluey's fun. 
I don't even have kids, and I've

420
00:22:51,700 --> 00:22:53,980
watched a few episodes of my 
officials, which is fabulous. 

421
00:22:54,430 --> 00:22:55,990
Blue is a show for any age. 
I'm coming. 

422
00:22:56,030 --> 00:22:56,510
Really. 
Yeah. 

423
00:22:56,790 --> 00:22:58,150
I love that game. 
The bite the. 

424
00:22:58,150 --> 00:22:59,950
Bite size episodes, everything. 
It's great. 

425
00:23:00,030 --> 00:23:02,510
It's actually so sweet. 
So sweet. 

426
00:23:02,910 --> 00:23:07,150
Also to the in the development 
of everything to which I didn't 

427
00:23:07,150 --> 00:23:09,710
know this at all. 
So I was just like checking off 

428
00:23:09,710 --> 00:23:11,270
boxes. 
I've learned something today. 

429
00:23:11,270 --> 00:23:13,790
You know one of those things 
every time I got to a new couple

430
00:23:13,790 --> 00:23:15,390
pages of your book, I was like, 
I didn't know that. 

431
00:23:15,390 --> 00:23:17,150
I didn't know that I have all 
these like how? 

432
00:23:17,870 --> 00:23:22,430
Great, this is amazing that this
was this was originally. 

433
00:23:23,010 --> 00:23:25,770
Similar to what Virtuo Cop was, 
which was, which is constantly 

434
00:23:25,770 --> 00:23:28,170
brought up in the development 
that this was an on rails 

435
00:23:28,170 --> 00:23:30,610
shooter at first, which I had no
idea. 

436
00:23:30,890 --> 00:23:34,130
I guess it makes sense based on 
technology and time and 

437
00:23:34,130 --> 00:23:37,850
everything, but like I just 
can't even imagine that being 

438
00:23:38,170 --> 00:23:42,730
this game or even a game like 
that on the 64 at that time. 

439
00:23:42,730 --> 00:23:46,170
It feels like it was like that 
for so long in development too, 

440
00:23:46,170 --> 00:23:48,870
which is so crazy to me. 
Totally. 

441
00:23:49,230 --> 00:23:52,190
Yeah, it was real. 
This was the one thing about the

442
00:23:52,470 --> 00:23:55,070
development process that I got 
really mixed answers from the 

443
00:23:55,070 --> 00:23:56,790
guys about. 
They really had trouble 

444
00:23:56,790 --> 00:23:58,990
remembering when it came off the
rails. 

445
00:23:59,270 --> 00:24:01,710
Some of them said we always 
wanted to put it off the rails 

446
00:24:01,710 --> 00:24:04,650
and others said, you know, we 
didn't decide for sure that 

447
00:24:04,650 --> 00:24:07,170
we're gonna take it off the 
rails until after Super Mario 64

448
00:24:07,170 --> 00:24:10,410
came out and we saw how fun and 
open world was on the N64. 

449
00:24:10,410 --> 00:24:13,090
I mean, part of the problem is 
they didn't have an N64. 

450
00:24:13,090 --> 00:24:14,810
For the vast majority of the 
development process. 

451
00:24:14,810 --> 00:24:16,570
They didn't have the controller.
They didn't know it was 

452
00:24:16,570 --> 00:24:17,730
possible. 
They didn't know what the 

453
00:24:17,970 --> 00:24:20,890
consoles really be able to do. 
But yeah, they were so committed

454
00:24:20,890 --> 00:24:24,490
to the virtual cop model that 
they would go to the arcade and 

455
00:24:24,490 --> 00:24:26,890
bring big bags of coins and sort
of sit there and feed the 

456
00:24:26,890 --> 00:24:32,310
machine coins and really learn. 
Virtua Cop one of the the first 

457
00:24:32,310 --> 00:24:35,630
artists hired on the game, Carl 
Hilton, was giving some advice 

458
00:24:35,630 --> 00:24:38,630
to his friend Brett Jones when 
Brett was applying to be the 

459
00:24:38,630 --> 00:24:40,270
next the second artist on the 
game. 

460
00:24:40,670 --> 00:24:42,550
And Brett Jones had never played
a video game before. 

461
00:24:42,550 --> 00:24:46,590
He was a real talented artist 
and he knew a lot about James 

462
00:24:46,590 --> 00:24:48,230
Bond. 
He was a huge James Bonder, but 

463
00:24:48,230 --> 00:24:50,830
he didn't play video games. 
So Carl Hilton told him, listen,

464
00:24:50,830 --> 00:24:53,710
in your interview, just make 
sure you talk a lot about Virtua

465
00:24:53,710 --> 00:24:55,070
Cop. 
It's really important to Martin 

466
00:24:55,390 --> 00:25:00,020
and Brett did and the child. 
So, yeah, yeah, there's, 

467
00:25:00,060 --> 00:25:02,060
there's, I mean, I mentioned 
this book, but there's, there's 

468
00:25:02,060 --> 00:25:05,060
footage of it on the rails still
all the way up through, I mean 

469
00:25:05,060 --> 00:25:08,380
like within maybe 6 to 9 months 
of it coming out. 

470
00:25:08,780 --> 00:25:13,140
Yeah, I think I wrote down that 
it was yeah, last minute it was 

471
00:25:13,580 --> 00:25:17,220
E 396. 
It's you can wrote in the book 

472
00:25:17,220 --> 00:25:19,700
that that it was still 
technically on rails and that's 

473
00:25:19,860 --> 00:25:24,140
when Mario 64 and Gold and I 
were shown and it's like that's 

474
00:25:24,300 --> 00:25:26,370
just crazy. 
I don't that's crazy. 

475
00:25:26,410 --> 00:25:28,890
And there's still, there's 
still, there's still levels that

476
00:25:28,890 --> 00:25:30,930
show that influence, right. 
So like the train level really 

477
00:25:30,930 --> 00:25:33,690
feels like a Rails level. 
It's very linear. 

478
00:25:33,730 --> 00:25:36,330
You know, you're very tight 
shooting guys, they pop out. 

479
00:25:37,170 --> 00:25:39,930
But the fact that then you can 
also have levels you get lost 

480
00:25:39,930 --> 00:25:42,770
in, you know maze like levels or
levels where you can really have

481
00:25:42,770 --> 00:25:45,450
a different strategy approach 
depending on, I mean it just it 

482
00:25:45,610 --> 00:25:48,530
it made the game, the fact that 
it's open world and so yeah, 

483
00:25:48,530 --> 00:25:50,430
huge, huge decision. 
Yeah. 

484
00:25:50,510 --> 00:25:52,430
I can't believe that. 
I can't believe it. 

485
00:25:52,430 --> 00:25:54,870
I just can't. 
It blows my mind, yeah. 

486
00:25:54,990 --> 00:25:57,870
What blows my mind is the fact 
that they didn't have a dev kit.

487
00:25:57,870 --> 00:26:01,350
They didn't have any. 
I remember reading that I'm like

488
00:26:02,150 --> 00:26:06,550
nothing, like no, nothing. 
How do you design something for 

489
00:26:06,550 --> 00:26:08,750
something you have no idea how 
it's like? 

490
00:26:09,410 --> 00:26:11,650
Now that's wild. 
Yeah, it's it's wild. 

491
00:26:11,650 --> 00:26:14,010
And it definitely led to a lot 
of challenges in their process, 

492
00:26:14,010 --> 00:26:17,570
whether it was the the musicians
trying at the last minute to, 

493
00:26:17,890 --> 00:26:20,570
you know, basically they were, 
they were told the N64 could do 

494
00:26:20,570 --> 00:26:22,530
a lot more than it ended up 
being able to do. 

495
00:26:22,730 --> 00:26:24,850
So that meant the artists were 
screwed on. 

496
00:26:24,850 --> 00:26:27,330
You know that the size of some 
of their images and files they 

497
00:26:27,330 --> 00:26:31,090
do a lot of work compressing and
cutting and shrinking things. 

498
00:26:31,510 --> 00:26:35,550
Same thing with the musicians. 
And I do think that you know the

499
00:26:35,590 --> 00:26:39,750
the thing about the N64 
controllers that you know it's I

500
00:26:39,750 --> 00:26:42,910
guess like according to legend 
the controller was really 

501
00:26:42,910 --> 00:26:46,990
designed for Mario 64. 
It's it's a that plays really 

502
00:26:46,990 --> 00:26:49,670
well for that game. 
But then the Golden Eye guys you

503
00:26:49,670 --> 00:26:52,390
know it's it's a horrendously 
sort of horrible controller for 

504
00:26:52,390 --> 00:26:55,550
a first person shooter. 
However, if you play with one 

505
00:26:55,550 --> 00:26:59,030
controller in each hand and and 
you know you have one control 

506
00:26:59,030 --> 00:27:01,430
stick for Amy and one for 
moving, it technically is the 

507
00:27:01,510 --> 00:27:03,950
first dual analog control stick.
Sugar. 

508
00:27:04,350 --> 00:27:07,630
Right. 
Which is also, I honestly, I 

509
00:27:07,630 --> 00:27:10,670
don't know. 
How long have we have, you know,

510
00:27:10,670 --> 00:27:12,790
nerds like me or us. 
Been on the Internet? 

511
00:27:12,950 --> 00:27:14,470
I did not know. 
Nope. 

512
00:27:15,030 --> 00:27:18,350
That was a thing. 
Until, I think, less than a year

513
00:27:18,350 --> 00:27:20,230
ago. 
I had no idea. 

514
00:27:20,910 --> 00:27:24,430
So crazy, so awkward. 
And I I I feel like now that the

515
00:27:24,430 --> 00:27:28,750
game has been re released for 
Xbox and Switch, which it wasn't

516
00:27:28,750 --> 00:27:30,870
at the time that my book came 
out, there were rumors about it,

517
00:27:30,870 --> 00:27:31,870
right? 
But it hadn't happened. 

518
00:27:32,190 --> 00:27:34,630
Now you know, I don't know about
you guys if you've played it on 

519
00:27:34,630 --> 00:27:36,950
on those consoles, but I cannot 
get used to it. 

520
00:27:36,950 --> 00:27:40,110
I cannot get used to doing so 
cold night with dual analog. 

521
00:27:40,150 --> 00:27:41,150
I kind. 
Of hate I have. 

522
00:27:41,270 --> 00:27:43,110
Yeah. 
I have my Xbox controller still 

523
00:27:43,110 --> 00:27:44,430
sitting beside me because I 
just. 

524
00:27:44,510 --> 00:27:47,030
I opened it back up and played 
like the first two stages again.

525
00:27:47,030 --> 00:27:48,390
Cool, cool, cool. 
How did it go? 

526
00:27:48,430 --> 00:27:51,900
Today so I. 
So I have I have the cartridge, 

527
00:27:51,980 --> 00:27:55,100
I have a Switch and I have it on
on Xbox cuz I have Game Pass. 

528
00:27:55,100 --> 00:28:00,100
So I I dabbled in all of them, 
but I think I'm just too 

529
00:28:00,100 --> 00:28:04,060
tailored to playing with dual, 
dual sticks now, So really, 

530
00:28:04,340 --> 00:28:06,220
yeah. 
Yeah, So I think, you know, I'm 

531
00:28:06,220 --> 00:28:10,460
kind of the, the, I'm talking 
about this game that's 25 plus 

532
00:28:10,460 --> 00:28:13,780
years old and yet here I am 
playing it with an Xbox and an 

533
00:28:13,780 --> 00:28:18,640
Xbox controller, I I think. 
For me I just my mind now works 

534
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,360
where I have a separate joystick
to constantly look around as 

535
00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:25,840
opposed to you know, not relying
on auto aim. 

536
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,120
But auto aim is obviously 
something that is that is big 

537
00:28:28,120 --> 00:28:30,440
and in the in the original and 
and on the switch as well. 

538
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,200
It works almost exactly the same
and having to press R and look 

539
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,720
around and stuff is is fine 
because you don't always have to

540
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,760
do it. 
But I found I was like looking 

541
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,440
like I was doing this and I was 
walking weird directions and 

542
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,540
stuff, which is cooler. 
Yeah, it just feels a little bit

543
00:28:45,540 --> 00:28:47,660
awkward, and I don't know if 
that's because it's what it 

544
00:28:47,660 --> 00:28:50,180
always was, but I don't remember
it feeling that way. 

545
00:28:50,180 --> 00:28:55,140
But it's interesting because me 
and Jiggy just played Jeff Force

546
00:28:55,140 --> 00:28:58,700
Gemini and it works almost 
exactly the same, except that's 

547
00:28:58,780 --> 00:29:01,260
technically third person. 
Yeah, and that's where I was 

548
00:29:01,260 --> 00:29:05,460
going to go with this. 
So I started playing the Switch 

549
00:29:05,460 --> 00:29:09,620
version and set it up for dual 
dual stick in it. 

550
00:29:10,450 --> 00:29:13,810
Okay. 
And so I'm playing dual stick 

551
00:29:13,810 --> 00:29:15,130
and I'm like, okay, this is 
cool. 

552
00:29:15,130 --> 00:29:18,490
But because we played Jet Force 
Gemini and I went back to this. 

553
00:29:18,890 --> 00:29:23,370
So I initially like my replay 
since the last time I played it,

554
00:29:23,370 --> 00:29:27,810
which who knows how many years 
it's been, I was like first 

555
00:29:27,810 --> 00:29:31,250
replay, dual stick, modern, more
modern controls. 

556
00:29:31,570 --> 00:29:35,570
And then I went back to the 64 
and I'm like, this feels really 

557
00:29:35,570 --> 00:29:39,560
good, like I was. 
I was almost surprised at how 

558
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,880
much I enjoyed playing it on the
64. 

559
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:44,240
I'm like, this works really 
well. 

560
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,480
And yeah, it's so true. 
Yeah yeah, I think I'm the same.

561
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,440
I mean, I I I love having a dual
control stick for everything 

562
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,880
modern. 
But for whatever reason my like 

563
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:59,240
Goldeneye muscle memories are 
tied to the N64 controller and I

564
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,840
don't know how to function if 
I'm firing with my right finger 

565
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:06,030
instead of my left finger and 
but yeah that that that R button

566
00:30:06,030 --> 00:30:08,830
aim was such a pain in the ass 
because you did have to do it on

567
00:30:08,830 --> 00:30:12,830
the higher difficulty levels the
auto aim was less intense and so

568
00:30:13,070 --> 00:30:16,190
or in multiplayer you know it's 
really helpful to use that R but

569
00:30:16,190 --> 00:30:19,830
it is terrible and especially if
your control stick if you're if 

570
00:30:19,830 --> 00:30:22,550
your N64 controller is like a 
little old and the control stick

571
00:30:22,550 --> 00:30:24,430
is a little sticky you're in big
trouble. 

572
00:30:24,670 --> 00:30:27,950
Yeah, because it's true when 
you're aiming at the cameras or 

573
00:30:27,950 --> 00:30:30,070
the turrets on the on the 
ceiling and stuff you yeah, 

574
00:30:30,870 --> 00:30:32,750
there's no auto aim with those 
none. 

575
00:30:32,750 --> 00:30:35,030
So those those and it's not 
super subtle. 

576
00:30:35,390 --> 00:30:36,390
No. 
And it's it's not. 

577
00:30:36,390 --> 00:30:38,950
Yeah. 
And and those turrets are are 

578
00:30:38,950 --> 00:30:43,590
relentless. 
They they can find you from a 

579
00:30:43,590 --> 00:30:45,550
couple of pixels. 
You know, like they just beat 

580
00:30:45,550 --> 00:30:47,750
the crap out of you. 
I just, yeah, I was like, are 

581
00:30:47,750 --> 00:30:49,310
you kidding? 
I thought I was good at this 

582
00:30:49,310 --> 00:30:51,950
game. 
Totally destroying those cameras

583
00:30:51,950 --> 00:30:53,870
is one of the tensest moments 
for me. 

584
00:30:53,870 --> 00:30:56,190
Because like, as soon as it you 
know you you. 

585
00:30:56,390 --> 00:30:58,150
As soon as it's easy, you're 
screwed. 

586
00:30:58,150 --> 00:31:00,830
But it takes forever to aim with
the stupid thing. 

587
00:31:00,830 --> 00:31:03,790
And so it's it's. 
Very yeah, I I found in. 

588
00:31:03,870 --> 00:31:08,790
And not to jump ahead into 
levels, but the jungle level 

589
00:31:08,910 --> 00:31:11,550
with the the drones that come 
out of the ground, they're like 

590
00:31:11,550 --> 00:31:14,830
hiding in the bushes. 
I'm like Mother Grabber. 

591
00:31:16,630 --> 00:31:19,990
I was getting mad. 
Yeah, it's just brutal. 

592
00:31:20,270 --> 00:31:23,710
It really is. 
And yeah, I still struggle on 

593
00:31:23,710 --> 00:31:26,470
that level every time. 
Yeah, when I when I played that,

594
00:31:26,470 --> 00:31:30,790
I was like, I honestly, I only 
sort of forgot about some of the

595
00:31:30,790 --> 00:31:33,190
levels because like I mentioned 
earlier with the like. 

596
00:31:33,780 --> 00:31:36,300
Sort of make your own fun type 
of thing. 

597
00:31:36,300 --> 00:31:40,220
It seems like a lot of people 
repeated same levels, whether it

598
00:31:40,220 --> 00:31:43,060
was dam or whether it was 
whatever. 

599
00:31:43,060 --> 00:31:45,780
Usually jungle wasn't one of 
those. 

600
00:31:45,780 --> 00:31:50,180
I think maybe because it was 
just like turrets and then what 

601
00:31:50,180 --> 00:31:51,940
would you could call a boss 
fight, right? 

602
00:31:51,980 --> 00:31:53,550
Essentially. 
And there's just less 

603
00:31:53,590 --> 00:31:55,630
experimentation with that. 
There's less. 

604
00:31:55,630 --> 00:31:57,230
How about this? 
There's less tables and chairs 

605
00:31:57,230 --> 00:31:58,710
to blow up. 
So there's, you know, like. 

606
00:31:59,510 --> 00:32:03,510
Yeah. 
Yeah, less reason to fill a room

607
00:32:03,510 --> 00:32:07,150
with minds, I guess. 
True, those levels are 

608
00:32:07,150 --> 00:32:08,390
especially interesting for me to
watch. 

609
00:32:08,390 --> 00:32:12,050
One of my favorite run throughs 
to watch is the beating 

610
00:32:12,050 --> 00:32:13,890
Goldeneye with like only one 
bullet. 

611
00:32:14,610 --> 00:32:16,530
You can do it. 
So people have done it and they 

612
00:32:16,530 --> 00:32:20,530
the only bullet you need 
actually is to shoot the lock 

613
00:32:20,530 --> 00:32:24,970
off the gate in dam oh 
everything else that you can do.

614
00:32:24,970 --> 00:32:27,730
And it's incredible, especially 
on levels like that because 

615
00:32:27,730 --> 00:32:30,650
you're thinking how, how, how 
are you gonna get through how 

616
00:32:30,650 --> 00:32:33,330
can you do a defense only 
approach and cross the bridge 

617
00:32:33,330 --> 00:32:35,730
past Zenia? 
How can you get past those 

618
00:32:35,730 --> 00:32:39,430
turrets that are so, so less, so
much less forgiving than the 

619
00:32:39,430 --> 00:32:41,030
guards that you can kind of 
sneak fast because they're 

620
00:32:41,030 --> 00:32:42,190
stupid and slow? 
Yeah. 

621
00:32:43,710 --> 00:32:45,430
Purpose is stupid, which which I
don't mind. 

622
00:32:45,430 --> 00:32:47,230
That's totally fine. 
That's why you can shoot their 

623
00:32:47,230 --> 00:32:49,070
hat off. 
That's why you can just, you 

624
00:32:49,070 --> 00:32:51,870
know just shoot them in the butt
and like you know the little 

625
00:32:51,870 --> 00:32:53,230
animations that they have and 
everything. 

626
00:32:54,670 --> 00:32:57,950
Yeah, that level actually with 
the Jungle was actually kind of 

627
00:32:57,950 --> 00:33:01,390
cool when I when I went back to 
like oh this, you know, it's you

628
00:33:01,390 --> 00:33:03,870
mentioned the music earlier and 
like the the music in this. 

629
00:33:04,310 --> 00:33:06,870
You know when it's a licensed 
game or when it's such a 

630
00:33:06,870 --> 00:33:11,790
recognizable property, 
especially a Bond theme and 

631
00:33:12,110 --> 00:33:16,990
based on a movie that came out 
years before they did a great 

632
00:33:16,990 --> 00:33:20,070
job of the music. 
And and somehow this is one of 

633
00:33:20,070 --> 00:33:24,670
those games where like the fog 
of war works in in this level 

634
00:33:24,870 --> 00:33:27,310
because you're in the jungle or 
whatever. 

635
00:33:27,310 --> 00:33:29,440
And I was like. 
I feel this level. 

636
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:30,400
I like it. 
I like it. 

637
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,040
It was. 
I actually enjoyed it more than 

638
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,000
I thought I would or more than I
remember enjoying anyway. 

639
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,120
Right. 
You got that kind of turrock 

640
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,080
effect in the in the jungle. 
But it's it definitely makes 

641
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:40,480
sense. 
It's it's earned. 

642
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,240
They were, you know the one of 
the things that developers were 

643
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,960
always so self-conscious about 
when I talked to them was, was 

644
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,960
the frame rate and and the fog 
and the things they were doing 

645
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,440
to kind of cover some of those 
issues. 

646
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:53,960
They're still very embarrassed 
about it. 

647
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,650
And I was just like guys, like 
it was 1996. 

648
00:33:56,650 --> 00:33:58,130
Like what? 
What are you gonna do? 

649
00:33:58,130 --> 00:34:00,010
I mean, you you did beautiful 
work. 

650
00:34:00,010 --> 00:34:02,330
And they're they're so British. 
They just refuse any 

651
00:34:02,330 --> 00:34:04,330
compliments. 
They absolutely hated being 

652
00:34:04,330 --> 00:34:06,490
complimented by me. 
And I was like, I have to 

653
00:34:06,490 --> 00:34:08,010
compliment you. 
I'm writing a book about how 

654
00:34:08,010 --> 00:34:10,050
beautiful your game is. 
And they, they would just, like,

655
00:34:10,090 --> 00:34:13,449
wince every time I said 
something nice and oh, no, no, 

656
00:34:13,449 --> 00:34:18,429
no, no, no, no, no. 
The most humble humbles. 

657
00:34:20,870 --> 00:34:22,870
And it sounds it comes through 
in the book for sure. 

658
00:34:18,510 --> 00:34:24,310
Humblest, sweetest guys. 
Good. 

659
00:34:25,030 --> 00:34:27,389
But do you were mentioning to 
me, I think when we were talking

660
00:34:27,389 --> 00:34:29,510
about playing it like last week 
or something like that, you said

661
00:34:29,510 --> 00:34:33,989
that you ran into some of the 
frame rate stuff, but none of 

662
00:34:33,989 --> 00:34:36,949
it, none of it bothered me. 
I don't know did it cause any 

663
00:34:36,949 --> 00:34:44,750
problems for you or? 
OK, so yes, and I have a very. 

664
00:34:44,750 --> 00:34:47,830
I have a very. 
High tolerance for frame rate 

665
00:34:47,830 --> 00:34:52,710
dipping like like my favorite, 
my favorite game of all time is 

666
00:34:52,710 --> 00:34:57,550
Banjo Tooie and the frame rate 
is locked at a solid 24 and it 

667
00:34:57,550 --> 00:35:00,950
often dips below that, you know,
So I'm like really accustomed 

668
00:35:01,270 --> 00:35:04,710
but I'm trying to think it's one
of the it's one of the beginning

669
00:35:04,710 --> 00:35:09,510
levels where you have to go like
it's right when you meet Trevlin

670
00:35:09,510 --> 00:35:12,270
for the first time. 
It's that level and like the gas

671
00:35:12,270 --> 00:35:15,680
canisters and everything. 
So in there, I triggered an 

672
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,920
alarm. 
And then you get like, I don't 

673
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,760
know how many guys coming at 
you, like, they just load like 

674
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,920
to the point where your game is 
like, like stuttering, right? 

675
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:28,760
And I'm trying to power through 
it. 

676
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,200
I'm just firing, firing. 
My game froze. 

677
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,040
And this happened not once but 
twice for me. 

678
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,680
And I was mad because it's like,
it's not at the beginning, it's 

679
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:39,240
not at the end. 
It's like midway through the 

680
00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:40,880
mission and I just have to start
over. 

681
00:35:41,530 --> 00:35:44,210
Yeah, and and all that stuff's 
blowing up and everything. 

682
00:35:44,210 --> 00:35:46,810
I think when all the explosions 
went off is sort of when I 

683
00:35:46,890 --> 00:35:48,610
noticed it. 
I think that might have been one

684
00:35:48,610 --> 00:35:50,850
of the stages. 
But like, I I don't know. 

685
00:35:50,850 --> 00:35:52,210
I mean, I was just like, all 
right, I'm just gonna kill 

686
00:35:52,210 --> 00:35:53,970
everybody, get out of here. 
Like I just sort of did it quit 

687
00:35:53,970 --> 00:35:56,910
and it was it was fine. 
It didn't stop me. 

688
00:35:57,110 --> 00:36:01,030
I still exactly. 
I was just like, it's not like 

689
00:36:01,030 --> 00:36:03,470
collecting a bunch of tribals to
complete the game. 

690
00:36:03,470 --> 00:36:04,510
Jetforce Gemini. 
My. 

691
00:36:05,070 --> 00:36:07,830
God, no, it's definitely not 
that. 

692
00:36:07,830 --> 00:36:11,230
Thank God it's way worse. 
I mean, it is way worse on the 

693
00:36:11,710 --> 00:36:14,190
multiplayer. 
I think when you have four, cuz 

694
00:36:14,190 --> 00:36:15,990
we had this afternoon, the other
night when I was playing with my

695
00:36:15,990 --> 00:36:18,930
buddies, When you have four 
separate screens and they all 

696
00:36:18,930 --> 00:36:22,290
have explosions going in grenade
mode, it's just terrible. 

697
00:36:22,770 --> 00:36:25,850
It slows down to like 10, you 
know, you're like, OK, I can't. 

698
00:36:26,290 --> 00:36:28,890
But I did think it was way worse
as a whole. 

699
00:36:28,890 --> 00:36:32,290
I think the framer issue was way
worse in Perfect Dark than in 

700
00:36:32,290 --> 00:36:35,450
Golden Eye, which is a real one 
of the biggest reasons I never 

701
00:36:35,450 --> 00:36:36,770
could get into Perfect Dark. 
I just. 

702
00:36:36,850 --> 00:36:38,650
Yeah, I remember that being the 
case. 

703
00:36:38,650 --> 00:36:40,410
But I never. 
I don't have a ton of 

704
00:36:40,410 --> 00:36:41,610
experience. 
The perfect dark, but I do 

705
00:36:41,610 --> 00:36:44,090
remember that being the thing. 
But it's like also. 

706
00:36:44,670 --> 00:36:47,030
This and a lot of games that 
came around this time. 

707
00:36:47,030 --> 00:36:49,030
I was like, well, if you had 
that expansion pack it would 

708
00:36:49,030 --> 00:36:51,550
have, you know, really boosted 
things or whatever. 

709
00:36:51,670 --> 00:36:53,830
It wasn't out yet. 
They didn't know it was coming. 

710
00:36:53,830 --> 00:36:57,710
Probably at that point like all 
of that stuff in a in a similar 

711
00:36:57,710 --> 00:37:00,430
way, I find it. 
OK, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm

712
00:37:00,430 --> 00:37:03,310
gonna do a little maybe, maybe 
you look this up maybe you have 

713
00:37:03,310 --> 00:37:08,350
a note on it at least. 
But so the entire game was 12 

714
00:37:08,350 --> 00:37:13,140
megabytes the entire game. 
That's first of all, insane that

715
00:37:13,140 --> 00:37:16,660
it's just that size, right? 
You wrote the way you describe 

716
00:37:16,660 --> 00:37:19,380
it in the book is. 
And I'm gonna preface it by 

717
00:37:19,380 --> 00:37:22,220
saying kids these days might not
know what 12 megabytes is, 

718
00:37:23,740 --> 00:37:24,060
right? 
Yeah. 

719
00:37:25,940 --> 00:37:30,540
How many copies of this game 
could fit in a 64 gigabyte cell 

720
00:37:30,540 --> 00:37:31,860
phone? 
Do you remember what that number

721
00:37:31,860 --> 00:37:34,250
is? 
I'm I'm. 

722
00:37:34,650 --> 00:37:36,930
I'm looking at my own book 
because I forgot it's it's OK. 

723
00:37:37,010 --> 00:37:45,410
Crazy, I know that is. 5333, 
that is that is only 64 gigs 

724
00:37:45,450 --> 00:37:48,330
which which at this point this 
point sitting in the middle of 

725
00:37:48,330 --> 00:37:52,690
2023 is is yeah is very easy to 
get. 

726
00:37:52,690 --> 00:37:55,010
You know 64 is almost nothing at
this point right. 

727
00:37:56,250 --> 00:37:59,090
I just and then and then it 
goes. 

728
00:37:59,130 --> 00:38:01,250
It just it goes back to your 
point of being like. 

729
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,120
Yeah. 
So what if there's a little bit 

730
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,200
of slowdown? 
Look what you had to work with, 

731
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,240
right? 
These guys were masters. 

732
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,440
One of the masters like they 
did. 

733
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,360
One of the themes that came up 
in talking to the Goldeneye guys

734
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,680
and the Super Mario Brothers, 
three people, was that these 

735
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,840
designers really like they 
missed this period when you 

736
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:26,610
could design A AAA title on a 
team of under a dozen people 

737
00:38:26,890 --> 00:38:30,330
working really, really closely. 
And where the constraints led to

738
00:38:30,330 --> 00:38:33,930
creativity and the constraints 
was a was a fun obstacle for 

739
00:38:33,930 --> 00:38:36,410
them that that made them come 
with their best ideas. 

740
00:38:37,370 --> 00:38:39,930
And now they they they sort of 
sound a little cynical about the

741
00:38:39,930 --> 00:38:44,450
fact that you know most, most 
textures in modern games are far

742
00:38:44,450 --> 00:38:48,250
larger than 12 megabytes. 
And you know, every but 

743
00:38:48,250 --> 00:38:50,530
everything got bigger. 
And so teams got bigger. 

744
00:38:50,530 --> 00:38:53,840
For these AAA, AAA games, the 
teams got bigger. 

745
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,640
You may never know all the 
people working on the game with 

746
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,600
you. 
And so they definitely kind of 

747
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,680
refer to this as like a golden 
era of game design for them. 

748
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,440
Yeah, well, I can imagine even 
some of the pictures that you 

749
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:08,200
that are in your book about 
just, you know, a small little 

750
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:13,080
office of them, just, you know, 
working around these tiny little

751
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,800
computers and having TV's and 
just books and resources and 

752
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,200
things just everywhere. 
It's like it feels like they 

753
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,520
were. 
On their own little college 

754
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,040
campus you know like that's 
really what it would it look 

755
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,600
like and each like team which 
like you said under a dozen 

756
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,600
people you know probably on 
average around around that you 

757
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,840
know rare campus was could fit 
within a couple rooms and they 

758
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,440
just that's like that's where 
this game was made that's it's 

759
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:41,280
just. 
So, so that yeah. 

760
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:46,320
That aspect of it, like what you
said, is almost verbatim 

761
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:52,340
something I heard our NUMA. 
Who is the director of Zelda and

762
00:39:52,340 --> 00:39:54,100
Tears of the Kingdom that just 
came out and switched. 

763
00:39:54,860 --> 00:39:59,620
He was talking about how he 
appreciates that when people, 

764
00:39:59,620 --> 00:40:03,540
whenever people bring up like, 
oh, Nintendo hardware, so like 

765
00:40:03,740 --> 00:40:06,580
last Gen. it's out of date. 
It doesn't have enough. 

766
00:40:06,860 --> 00:40:11,220
He said that exact thing. 
He's like, I love when we're 

767
00:40:11,220 --> 00:40:13,860
limited by that because that's 
when we get creative. 

768
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,680
That's when we come up with new 
concepts to utilize those 

769
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:22,600
limitations in a way that makes 
a fun game play style, and there

770
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:27,680
is definitely truth to that. 
Yeah, as a writer, I use this 

771
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,680
concept in teaching writing all 
the time. 

772
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,880
You need the constraint of a 
sonnet to write a beautiful poem

773
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,440
because it forces you to be 
concise, to be careful, to be 

774
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,600
intentional. 
It forces you to think of not 

775
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:42,960
the very first word that comes 
into mind, but the one that will

776
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:44,480
rhyme with the word that you 
need. 

777
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,400
All of those constraints, yeah, 
are super important for 

778
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,480
creativity and they're what 
creates fun in the process. 

779
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,440
So games are fun because they 
have rules. 

780
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,280
Games are fun because they 
constrain you when you're 

781
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,200
outside with your friends and 
you're like, what should we do? 

782
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,280
And it's like, I don't know, 
like it's not fun. 

783
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,560
But when you're like, let's play
this game and there are rules 

784
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:06,480
involved, that's what creates 
fun. 

785
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:08,640
So it's super interesting. 
It's a very Japanese. 

786
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,400
Idea too, and I guess a British 
one too. 

787
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:16,080
That smallness and and and 
tightness and miniatures, you 

788
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,440
know, are especially exciting. 
But I definitely, you know both 

789
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,320
in terms of how close they felt 
as a small team and in terms of 

790
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,880
how they felt creatively 
inspired by their constraints. 

791
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:29,400
It was amazing to me to hear how
nostalgic these guys were about 

792
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:30,960
their experiences making the 
game. 

793
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,240
Because, of course, I'm writing 
this book because I feel so 

794
00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:34,880
nostalgic about playing the 
game. 

795
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,240
Right, right. 
Which is which is wild. 

796
00:41:38,530 --> 00:41:41,050
Yeah, Well, yeah, I know, right.
Is that is that why I'm doing 

797
00:41:41,050 --> 00:41:42,370
this? 
Probably that's why we have it. 

798
00:41:42,370 --> 00:41:47,090
Right. 
So I yes, I I love that and I 

799
00:41:47,090 --> 00:41:51,050
love the fact that I that that 
it's 1212 megabytes, right. 

800
00:41:51,170 --> 00:41:54,530
That's the size because I I had 
to look it up because I'm like 

801
00:41:54,570 --> 00:41:57,970
OK, rare. 
Like I know conquer was more 

802
00:41:58,490 --> 00:42:01,930
conquer Rep and conquer. 
I know conquer was more. 

803
00:42:02,130 --> 00:42:03,810
I I just wanted to talk about my
shirt. 

804
00:42:03,810 --> 00:42:07,070
That's why I'm bringing this up.
Conquer. 

805
00:42:07,070 --> 00:42:10,190
It was like the end of the 64 
life, you know, the end of that 

806
00:42:10,190 --> 00:42:11,590
era. 
And I was like, I wonder what 

807
00:42:11,590 --> 00:42:13,830
that cartridge size kind of got 
to. 

808
00:42:13,830 --> 00:42:17,350
And it said conquer maxed out at
64 megabytes. 

809
00:42:18,030 --> 00:42:21,590
So you think even that I 
remember having a, you know, a 

810
00:42:21,590 --> 00:42:26,310
flash drive that was, I don't 
know, 256 megabytes back in the 

811
00:42:26,310 --> 00:42:29,510
day. 
And I'm like those like all of 

812
00:42:29,510 --> 00:42:32,990
that, all that content squeezed 
into that small little package. 

813
00:42:32,990 --> 00:42:34,870
But 12 megabytes is even more 
impressive. 

814
00:42:34,950 --> 00:42:38,020
Like that's it's golden eyes, 
not short. 

815
00:42:38,260 --> 00:42:41,580
It's a decent size game, that's 
the thing. 

816
00:42:41,580 --> 00:42:43,820
Yeah, yeah, I was going through 
it. 

817
00:42:43,820 --> 00:42:45,580
And yeah. 
And kind of like what you 

818
00:42:45,700 --> 00:42:48,300
mentioned earlier at least, 
where you said like you want to 

819
00:42:48,300 --> 00:42:50,780
sort of have those goals for 
yourself or you're conquering 

820
00:42:50,780 --> 00:42:53,160
the different. 
Difficulties, for example, like 

821
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:54,440
playing it in single player and 
stuff. 

822
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:58,280
Yeah, where you're conquering 
the yeah, that'd be a cool 

823
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:02,200
mashup. 
And so I started on the middle. 

824
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,040
The regular difficulty, I don't 
remember offhand exactly what it

825
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:06,200
was. 
I think it's just Secret Agent, 

826
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:12,040
I think, and I ran into a little
bit of a wall in the difficulty 

827
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,400
and I want to find exactly what 
stage it was. 

828
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:19,040
I think it was. 
One of the last ones maybe 

829
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,440
caverns or control Control I 
think maybe. 

830
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,920
Control is very, oh, control. 
OK. 

831
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:27,760
So it's not just me. 
No, no, no. 

832
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:29,320
OK, that. 
That's where she has to, like, 

833
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,680
you know, she has to go. 
She's on the computer and you 

834
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,000
have to kind of save her or keep
her alive or whatever. 

835
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:35,720
Yeah, I don't know how many 
times. 

836
00:43:35,720 --> 00:43:38,000
I was frustrating. 
She got, she was killed. 

837
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:39,440
And I'm like, I can't. 
I can't do this. 

838
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,440
I can't. 
What am I supposed to do, like, 

839
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,560
jump in front of a bullet? 
I don't even know that's there. 

840
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:45,120
Like, how am I supposed to do 
this? 

841
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:46,160
So I. 
Find that you do? 

842
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:47,870
Yeah. 
Well, that's what I ended up 

843
00:43:47,870 --> 00:43:49,390
doing. 
I just instead of you know, 

844
00:43:49,390 --> 00:43:51,590
standing by the stairs where the
guys were coming around coming 

845
00:43:51,590 --> 00:43:53,910
down and stuff, I just ended up 
standing. 

846
00:43:54,710 --> 00:43:57,590
I I took the hits. 
I I stood in like on either side

847
00:43:57,590 --> 00:43:59,790
of her. 
I just went left to right and 

848
00:43:59,790 --> 00:44:02,710
just did a half circle around 
her while she was, you know, 

849
00:44:02,710 --> 00:44:07,390
doing her her fist. 
Smacking of the keyboard and 

850
00:44:08,110 --> 00:44:11,670
yeah, actually the funny. 
The funniest thing of the 

851
00:44:11,670 --> 00:44:14,190
animation is yes, there's lots 
of animations that they had fun 

852
00:44:14,190 --> 00:44:16,830
with, with the with the guards 
and everything. 

853
00:44:16,830 --> 00:44:18,670
When you shoot them, you shoot 
them in the groin, you shoot 

854
00:44:18,670 --> 00:44:21,030
them in the butt, you hit their 
hat, their arm, their leg. 

855
00:44:21,230 --> 00:44:24,950
All that stuff is amazing. 
The funniest thing to me is when

856
00:44:24,950 --> 00:44:27,830
she's typing. 
Sometimes when the and any 

857
00:44:27,830 --> 00:44:30,310
characters typing, sometimes 
when they type because they 

858
00:44:30,310 --> 00:44:32,110
don't have fingers, they can't 
really, they couldn't really 

859
00:44:32,110 --> 00:44:33,350
pull that off which is fair 
enough. 

860
00:44:33,350 --> 00:44:36,550
It's just what it is. 
She kind of like flip flips her 

861
00:44:36,550 --> 00:44:38,230
wrist up. 
She kind of, she's typing. 

862
00:44:38,230 --> 00:44:41,350
She just goes up like this, as 
if she's like giving the 

863
00:44:41,350 --> 00:44:44,830
computer the finger. 
But they can't animate the, you 

864
00:44:44,830 --> 00:44:46,230
know, the little finger. 
That's what it looks like. 

865
00:44:46,230 --> 00:44:48,710
It's almost like she's going. 
Such a great catch. 

866
00:44:48,950 --> 00:44:50,710
I hadn't thought about that, but
you're totally right. 

867
00:44:50,830 --> 00:44:52,190
Bond, you saved me. 
You. 

868
00:44:52,190 --> 00:44:54,230
Oh, you did such a great job. 
And then it looks like she's 

869
00:44:54,230 --> 00:44:54,910
going. 
You know what? 

870
00:44:54,910 --> 00:44:56,310
Fuck you. 
Like that's what it looks like 

871
00:44:56,310 --> 00:44:58,430
she was. 
Doing, yeah, it really does. 

872
00:44:59,190 --> 00:45:02,310
So yeah, so that stage got me 
and then I bumped the the 

873
00:45:02,310 --> 00:45:05,530
difficulty down 1 notch. 
And then I forgot that if you 

874
00:45:05,530 --> 00:45:08,850
don't beat it in one difficulty,
you can't continue on the next 

875
00:45:08,850 --> 00:45:13,650
level on that other difficulty. 
So I was like, do I have to go 

876
00:45:13,650 --> 00:45:16,600
back and do this? 
That's why I did it and the 

877
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:22,640
easiest mode possible. 
Yes, it gets incredibly 

878
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,600
difficult in those later levels,
especially once you. 

879
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:27,120
Yeah. 
Well, no, I mean even the 

880
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:31,040
difference between dam on agent 
and dam on 007 is pretty 

881
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:32,840
extraordinary like. 
Yeah, yeah. 

882
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,120
And that's just the start. 
That's the first stage. 

883
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:37,840
I couldn't do it. 
I mean, I can still beat Super 

884
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,410
Mario Brothers three, you know? 
No problem. 

885
00:45:40,410 --> 00:45:42,570
Like with work whistles. 
Give me 10 minutes, I'll beat 

886
00:45:42,570 --> 00:45:44,770
the game. 
But, but, but Goldeneye when I 

887
00:45:44,770 --> 00:45:47,890
was, when I was replaying it to 
write this book, I couldn't beat

888
00:45:47,890 --> 00:45:50,050
it on 007. 
I couldn't finish it. 

889
00:45:50,090 --> 00:45:51,850
I got to controls and I couldn't
pass that. 

890
00:45:51,850 --> 00:45:53,690
It was just OK. 
All right, so it's not OK. 

891
00:45:54,090 --> 00:45:55,210
You get. 
You guys are making me feel 

892
00:45:55,210 --> 00:45:56,130
better. 
It's not just me. 

893
00:45:56,130 --> 00:45:57,370
It was that stage and it was 
that. 

894
00:45:57,370 --> 00:45:59,010
All right, All right, cool. 
OK, Yeah. 

895
00:45:59,130 --> 00:46:00,370
Well, that's all we need to talk
about. 

896
00:46:00,370 --> 00:46:02,010
As long as I feel better about 
myself, that's it. 

897
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:06,320
Full ego best. 
All right, great. 

898
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,480
Amazing. 
Do you have at least you have a 

899
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:14,040
standout level that you remember
either replaying or one that 

900
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,920
when you replayed you're like, 
oh, that's the one that I really

901
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:18,480
appreciate. 
Like I know those might be two 

902
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,760
different things, but if there 
isn't we can go 1st and 

903
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,230
whatever. 
Yeah, I just thought I would. 

904
00:46:24,310 --> 00:46:26,110
Jump into that. 
I actually like control. 

905
00:46:26,190 --> 00:46:29,870
I actually like control a lot 
because I write about this in my

906
00:46:29,990 --> 00:46:31,870
Mario book. 
But I have, I have complicated 

907
00:46:31,870 --> 00:46:35,030
feelings about like damsels in 
distress because I know that 

908
00:46:35,030 --> 00:46:37,590
they can be, you know, a little 
bit regressive and all of that. 

909
00:46:37,590 --> 00:46:41,230
And I want women to be saving 
men and saving other women and I

910
00:46:41,230 --> 00:46:43,390
want all of that. 
But I also, you know, I am a 

911
00:46:43,390 --> 00:46:45,150
lesbian. 
And so I I like a good like 

912
00:46:45,150 --> 00:46:49,070
tamsel to take care of and to to
to, you know, to protect and to 

913
00:46:49,070 --> 00:46:50,430
do this chivalrous, you know, 
like. 

914
00:46:50,940 --> 00:46:53,980
Taking bullets for her, just 
like you explained, so that that

915
00:46:53,980 --> 00:46:56,740
levels a bit of a thrill, you 
know, narratively for me maybe, 

916
00:46:57,020 --> 00:46:59,940
but I think gameplay was my 
favorite, is the sneaky bunker 

917
00:46:59,940 --> 00:47:03,100
level, where you need to break 
out of your cell and sneak 

918
00:47:03,100 --> 00:47:04,580
around when you're playing that 
on. 

919
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,000
A higher difficulty level. 
It's just wild. 

920
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:09,720
I mean, you can't make any 
noise. 

921
00:47:09,720 --> 00:47:12,400
You have to slap people. 
You have to use the throwing 

922
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,480
knives. 
It's very unforgiving to any 

923
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:17,720
kind of noise. 
And I love that the game offers 

924
00:47:17,720 --> 00:47:20,920
us these like run and gun macho 
levels, but also these very 

925
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:25,280
sneaky, quieter strategic levels
where I, you know, I probably 

926
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,600
played it like three dozen times
just trying to figure out, OK, 

927
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,640
if I get my gun first with the 
silencer, can I, you know, I 

928
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:32,320
hope that I have to be too loud 
to get that. 

929
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:34,480
So where should I? 
It's just a very fun, like 

930
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,400
cognitive. 
Causal Add it on to your kind of

931
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,760
twitch reflex skills. 
Yeah. 

932
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,520
And that's one that you can get 
overwhelmed in pretty quickly 

933
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:45,040
because. 
And they just kind of keep 

934
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:47,080
spawning out of, I guess, keep 
coming. 

935
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:48,560
Yeah, they just keep coming, 
right. 

936
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:52,040
So regardless of what difficulty
you're on, you could be mowing 

937
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,320
down enemies if you make too 
much noise like you said. 

938
00:47:55,200 --> 00:48:00,080
For days, if you survive, yes. 
Like right, right you you can't 

939
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,040
think for one minute that you 
can just kill all the bad guys 

940
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,320
and keep going. 
They they will keep coming and 

941
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:05,360
so I love that. 
What are you and? 

942
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:07,320
That's another and that's 
another one with the with the 

943
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:09,440
camera and stuff as well, right.
We have to take the cameras out 

944
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:11,520
and everything, so right. 
I really like that, I mean. 

945
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,600
Yeah, that's a good one. 
Yeah, I think that's one that I 

946
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:18,480
definitely remember replaying a 
bunch. 

947
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:20,880
I don't know. 
Why? 

948
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:22,920
That was the one that I went 
back to. 

949
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:26,800
But I wouldn't be surprised if 
as a kid, as someone who's, you 

950
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:32,440
know, 10 years old or 12 years 
old, that's the one I go back to

951
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:35,600
because the enemies kept 
spawning, because I could put in

952
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:39,240
the cheats and I could have a 
bunch of mines everywhere, have 

953
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,000
12 of them all in like a 
staircase and just see the 

954
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,600
explosions go nuts like it. 
I think that's probably why that

955
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,830
was one of them. 
And then I do remember playing 

956
00:48:49,070 --> 00:48:52,550
the train quite a bit. 
I remember playing that a decent

957
00:48:52,550 --> 00:48:56,350
amount. 
I really appreciated this time. 

958
00:48:56,670 --> 00:48:59,070
Surface surface is the one 
where. 

959
00:48:59,230 --> 00:49:01,150
Oh yeah. 
That's you're in this, you're 

960
00:49:01,150 --> 00:49:03,350
it's pretty open. 
It's not that long of a level, 

961
00:49:03,350 --> 00:49:04,870
but it's open. 
You're in the snow. 

962
00:49:06,510 --> 00:49:09,750
As far as I remember re watching
the movie, that is not something

963
00:49:09,750 --> 00:49:12,150
that happens. 
It's one of the additional sort 

964
00:49:12,150 --> 00:49:15,790
of stages, or at least an 
expansion of the movie. 

965
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:19,400
And I just, it felt, it felt 
ahead of its time. 

966
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,280
When I'm sitting there playing 
this again for the first time in

967
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:25,600
like, you know, probably 17 
years or something, I was like, 

968
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:27,800
oh, they, you know, talking 
about the fog of war and all 

969
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:32,560
those types of things in jungle.
This was that, but in one sort 

970
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:37,200
of like large circular area. 
And you could kind of do things 

971
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:41,240
in any order you wanted. 
And, you know, enemies kept 

972
00:49:41,240 --> 00:49:43,160
spawning, but it never felt like
you were in a tunnel. 

973
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:44,880
You were literally out in the 
open and like. 

974
00:49:45,240 --> 00:49:47,400
All that stuff was a lot of fun,
so I think that's the one that 

975
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,240
stood out to me and also had 
gave me a good chance to use a 

976
00:49:50,240 --> 00:49:51,560
sniper. 
And I always love sniping in 

977
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:53,840
games, so yes. 
Oh yeah. 

978
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:55,520
For sure. 
Yeah. 

979
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:59,480
I I personally, First off I love
Dam. 

980
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:03,160
Like the Dam is just it's so 
much fun it's it's iconic it's 

981
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:05,680
got it's got so much going for 
it. 

982
00:50:05,720 --> 00:50:09,000
And I I hate to be a one note 
song because often when I think 

983
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,840
of games like the first levels 
tend to be my favorite. 

984
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:17,560
And I don't know if that's like,
I don't know if that's a me 

985
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:20,560
thing or if that's like me just 
thinking like, wow, this is when

986
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:22,080
they were fresh. 
This is when they were like, 

987
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:24,160
this is the idea, let's hit it 
hard. 

988
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,320
And you know, because there's so
much, there's so many elements 

989
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:30,400
in DAM that you can go through 
like they have the alarm system,

990
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:35,450
It's like disable the alarms. 
There's the whole, like, shoot 

991
00:50:35,450 --> 00:50:37,850
the lock to get through the 
thing like you were mentioning 

992
00:50:37,850 --> 00:50:39,370
earlier. 
Yeah, that's a lot of fun. 

993
00:50:39,370 --> 00:50:40,890
And feels very spy. 
Like, yeah. 

994
00:50:40,930 --> 00:50:43,730
And it feels giant. 
And there's even the the extra 

995
00:50:43,730 --> 00:50:47,610
mission that you put the modem 
in the, you know, in the in the 

996
00:50:47,850 --> 00:50:49,410
in the thing, in the PC or 
whatever. 

997
00:50:49,410 --> 00:50:53,730
But it's like there's so much 
going on and there's like, it's 

998
00:50:53,730 --> 00:50:57,010
the level that really made me 
feel like a spy rather than run 

999
00:50:57,010 --> 00:51:00,090
and gun kind of a thing, which I
appreciate. 

1000
00:51:00,170 --> 00:51:02,530
And plus, it's also got that 
dope cutscene at the end when 

1001
00:51:02,530 --> 00:51:04,130
you bungee off the dam, which is
awesome. 

1002
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,760
So great it's it's. 
Fun if you mentioned that. 

1003
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:10,320
Yeah, go ahead, go ahead. 
I was just gonna finish. 

1004
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:14,440
I also like streets because you 
can hop in a tank. 

1005
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:19,120
And I I I wanted to bring that 
one up because I I watched the 

1006
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:20,840
movie. 
Like I rewatched the movie just 

1007
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:21,680
for this. 
Yeah, me too. 

1008
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:24,600
Yeah, I gotta watch the movie 
because I haven't seen it since 

1009
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:26,120
I was a kid or since I was 
really young. 

1010
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:30,360
And then he gets in the tank and
goes, and I'm like, yeah, I 

1011
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,200
forgot about that. 
And then I'm playing the game. 

1012
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,710
I got to that level and I was 
like, I got to get in the tank. 

1013
00:51:35,830 --> 00:51:37,990
I was like, I don't even like, 
you don't even need to give in 

1014
00:51:37,990 --> 00:51:39,950
the tank. 
I just, I was like, whoa. 

1015
00:51:41,510 --> 00:51:42,750
Right. 
Yes. 

1016
00:51:43,110 --> 00:51:45,310
It's such a great level. 
The guy, the guys were joking 

1017
00:51:45,310 --> 00:51:48,470
with me that they they they feel
kind of embarrassed of that 

1018
00:51:48,470 --> 00:51:50,510
level because it was a little 
thrown together at the last 

1019
00:51:50,510 --> 00:51:52,070
minute. 
And they and they they're very 

1020
00:51:52,070 --> 00:51:55,790
conscious of the fact that like 
the way the graphics work in the

1021
00:51:55,790 --> 00:51:59,390
first person's perspective like 
Bond becomes a tank. 

1022
00:52:00,110 --> 00:52:02,910
Like it's. 
You could, you know, be Bond, 

1023
00:52:02,910 --> 00:52:04,750
but you just your weapon is a 
tank. 

1024
00:52:06,070 --> 00:52:07,790
And I love that. 
I love that. 

1025
00:52:08,110 --> 00:52:10,390
It's funny that you mentioned. 
That the tank be the tank you. 

1026
00:52:10,790 --> 00:52:12,990
Know Yeah, you are the tank. 
That's why you mentioned you 

1027
00:52:12,990 --> 00:52:15,230
like those early games because 
it's while they still had the 

1028
00:52:15,230 --> 00:52:17,030
idea. 
But what's really funny is like 

1029
00:52:17,030 --> 00:52:20,030
in both Mario Three and in 
Goldeneye, the first levels were

1030
00:52:20,030 --> 00:52:22,710
the ones they designed last 
because they wanted to leave 

1031
00:52:22,790 --> 00:52:23,670
them. 
Last. 

1032
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:26,040
So they could make sure that 
they were introducing all the 

1033
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:28,840
mechanics at the beginning of 
the game the way they wanted to.

1034
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:30,880
And I just love that because 
it's something I it's advice 

1035
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:32,120
that you've had students all the
time. 

1036
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:35,600
Like, write your introduction to
your paper last when you once 

1037
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:37,560
you know what you want to 
introduce, you know. 

1038
00:52:38,240 --> 00:52:40,480
It completely makes sense 
because at that point, I mean, 

1039
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:42,640
especially with the way, like we
talked about, the way things 

1040
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:46,600
change so much in that last year
leading up to release, 

1041
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:49,800
especially with a game like this
or with games at that time. 

1042
00:52:50,340 --> 00:52:54,220
Absolutely because now you know 
the basis of of the rest of the 

1043
00:52:54,220 --> 00:52:56,820
game or at least you know the 
vast majority potentially and 

1044
00:52:56,820 --> 00:53:02,020
all that and and it's it's that 
you know that that level is is 

1045
00:53:02,020 --> 00:53:06,980
great because just like a lot of
stages in this because I I after

1046
00:53:06,980 --> 00:53:09,780
I I read the book and after I 
played the game I watched the 

1047
00:53:09,780 --> 00:53:13,980
movie and I just wanted to 
compare notes on that and same 

1048
00:53:13,980 --> 00:53:15,100
thing. 
I haven't watched it in years. 

1049
00:53:15,100 --> 00:53:17,460
It's been I don't even know how 
long, probably even longer than 

1050
00:53:17,460 --> 00:53:22,890
than since I've played the game.
And I just love the expansion of

1051
00:53:22,890 --> 00:53:26,170
what they did because it's sort 
of like I wrote this down 

1052
00:53:26,170 --> 00:53:29,010
because it reminds me of I have 
some friends and Mike, I'm sure 

1053
00:53:29,010 --> 00:53:31,530
you're listening, I disagree 
with you, but I'm gonna, I'm 

1054
00:53:31,530 --> 00:53:35,610
gonna call you out just a little
bit, You know, there there's 

1055
00:53:35,610 --> 00:53:39,090
talk that, you know, the, like 
Rogue One in Star Wars is sort 

1056
00:53:39,090 --> 00:53:44,160
of an expansion on. 
One sentence that said saying 

1057
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,760
like, oh, these are the secret 
plans and that's it, right? 

1058
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:49,160
You don't need to know that 
story. 

1059
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:51,440
I I disagree with that 
completely. 

1060
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,320
I think it's a great movie. 
I think the story of itself, of 

1061
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:58,000
of the plans and how it all 
works is interesting, even if it

1062
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,040
wasn't in that movie, even if it
was in a novel or whatever. 

1063
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:02,120
That's just my opinion on it 
doesn't have to be everybody's 

1064
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:04,240
obviously. 
Is your friend saying that he 

1065
00:54:04,240 --> 00:54:06,360
doesn't like Rogue One? 
Because that's a great movie. 

1066
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:11,720
He he's, I think he's your. 
Friend, I for exactly the reason

1067
00:54:11,720 --> 00:54:14,000
you I totally respect. 
I totally respect that it is a 

1068
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:17,240
really good movie. 
It's just not a movie I enjoy, 

1069
00:54:17,240 --> 00:54:19,560
but it's. 
But it's because I think if you 

1070
00:54:19,720 --> 00:54:22,120
love Star Wars, some people are 
really more drawn to like the 

1071
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:24,480
light sabery stuff and some 
people are more drowned like the

1072
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:26,940
Han Soloy stuff. 
And I'm just more of a 

1073
00:54:26,940 --> 00:54:28,980
lightsaber. 
Like I want to see people using 

1074
00:54:28,980 --> 00:54:30,700
the forest. 
I want to see lightsaber duels, 

1075
00:54:30,700 --> 00:54:32,700
like I want it. 
I'm not as into, like the 

1076
00:54:32,700 --> 00:54:34,860
espionage, like I'm not a huge 
fan of Pandora. 

1077
00:54:34,860 --> 00:54:36,980
So that's the only reason. 
It's like, it's funny you say 

1078
00:54:36,980 --> 00:54:39,980
that because I feel like it gave
us one of the most badass Darth 

1079
00:54:39,980 --> 00:54:42,700
Vader scenes in a movie. 
It did. 

1080
00:54:42,900 --> 00:54:44,660
I personally, it's true. 
Yeah, it was pretty. 

1081
00:54:44,740 --> 00:54:45,900
Awesome. 
Very bad ass sort of fader 

1082
00:54:45,900 --> 00:54:47,260
scenes, yeah. 
Yeah, exactly. 

1083
00:54:47,780 --> 00:54:49,980
That's no. 
And the reason why I bring that 

1084
00:54:49,980 --> 00:54:53,300
up is because, yes, that's a 
much larger expansion of a 

1085
00:54:53,300 --> 00:54:57,520
singular idea for sure, but. 
When you start a movie with a 

1086
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:01,040
guy jumping off a dam, yes, you 
suspect that it's James Bond, 

1087
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:05,680
but the fact that they show you 
how he gets there and you you 

1088
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:10,120
are him getting to that point. 
Like you spend let's say 20 

1089
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:12,280
minutes, half an hour if you're 
messing around whatever it might

1090
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:15,600
be like or speed running it and 
just using one bullet. 

1091
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:20,520
You're James Bond in that moment
and then you begin the movie and

1092
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:22,520
I love that that's how they 
started. 

1093
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:25,520
They could easily, yeah, you 
are, you are holding the gun. 

1094
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:29,800
They could have easily started 
this with the ending of that of 

1095
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:32,920
that stage of dam Jumping off of
the dam could have just been the

1096
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:34,440
start of the game and it would 
have been totally fine. 

1097
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:37,720
It would have been great. 
But they created a game that, 

1098
00:55:37,720 --> 00:55:40,320
like you said, introduces a 
bunch of mechanics. 

1099
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,760
Alarms, sneaking, you know, 
going behind the truck I think 

1100
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:47,060
is such a fun. 
Way to start things, yeah. 

1101
00:55:48,260 --> 00:55:49,100
And it. 
Totally right. 

1102
00:55:49,100 --> 00:55:51,620
I mean, it feels like, almost 
like a prequel, like you're 

1103
00:55:51,620 --> 00:55:55,660
they're immersing you into his. 
Because those opening James Bond

1104
00:55:55,700 --> 00:55:59,020
action sequences before the plot
of the movie actually starts are

1105
00:55:59,020 --> 00:56:02,700
such a wonderful tradition of 
the genre and of the series. 

1106
00:56:02,700 --> 00:56:05,500
And my my grandfather's favorite
thing to say is after that 

1107
00:56:05,500 --> 00:56:07,820
opening huge action sequence 
that they have in every movie, 

1108
00:56:08,180 --> 00:56:09,780
you always will turn to you and 
go. 

1109
00:56:09,780 --> 00:56:13,870
It could happen. 
That's like, that's our 

1110
00:56:13,870 --> 00:56:15,630
tradition. 
And then the movie starts, 

1111
00:56:15,630 --> 00:56:17,630
right? 
Like after the big music, music,

1112
00:56:17,630 --> 00:56:18,950
credit scenes. 
But yeah, it's fun that you get 

1113
00:56:18,950 --> 00:56:22,350
to participate in that in the 
game, for sure. 

1114
00:56:22,350 --> 00:56:24,110
Yeah, those are those are little
additions. 

1115
00:56:24,510 --> 00:56:27,910
So we talked about favorite 
stages or favorite ones that we 

1116
00:56:27,910 --> 00:56:31,910
remember and stuff. 
Any guns in particular that that

1117
00:56:31,910 --> 00:56:34,930
are your favorite? 
You know, I mean I love the 

1118
00:56:34,930 --> 00:56:37,170
laser. 
I cuz I'm kind of a scifi fan 

1119
00:56:37,170 --> 00:56:39,370
and so I thought that was a 
really fun thing to do in that 

1120
00:56:39,370 --> 00:56:41,170
little bit on this level, to 
have the laser. 

1121
00:56:42,010 --> 00:56:43,450
Yeah, that that's up there for 
sure. 

1122
00:56:43,650 --> 00:56:48,010
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
RCP 90 The RCP 90 is really fun.

1123
00:56:48,570 --> 00:56:51,410
So that's the one that always 
stood out to me as a as a kid 

1124
00:56:51,410 --> 00:56:53,210
for sure. 
So when I finally picked it up 

1125
00:56:53,210 --> 00:56:56,330
in the game, I was like, yeah, I
got it and it's funny, it just 

1126
00:56:56,330 --> 00:56:59,410
shoots super fast. 
It was it's it's really cool. 

1127
00:56:59,410 --> 00:57:02,000
But I like. 
But I actually found this time 

1128
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:05,320
that maybe because it's very all
around, it's strong, whatever, 

1129
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:06,840
maybe it's just overpowered, I 
don't know. 

1130
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:08,640
But the assault rifle is kind of
that. 

1131
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:12,040
I found that to be very 
effective because you do have a 

1132
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:14,160
yeah, you have a zoom on it and 
everything. 

1133
00:57:15,240 --> 00:57:17,200
So in single player at least it 
was. 

1134
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:18,960
It was really good multiplayer. 
I feel like. 

1135
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:23,000
I feel like even the club was 
good, even though it's like, you

1136
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:27,200
know, a spray machine. 
Legendarily bad. 

1137
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:30,040
Yeah, exactly. 
Jiggy What about you? 

1138
00:57:30,540 --> 00:57:32,500
Am I the only one that loves the
original? 

1139
00:57:32,500 --> 00:57:35,580
Like just the PPK? 
Because no, not at. 

1140
00:57:35,620 --> 00:57:37,740
All yeah, honestly. 
Honestly. 

1141
00:57:37,940 --> 00:57:40,780
Like, it's. 
I found myself playing through 

1142
00:57:40,780 --> 00:57:44,580
levels and when you start with 
that, I would often just keep 

1143
00:57:44,580 --> 00:57:46,860
using it because it's you get 
up. 

1144
00:57:46,860 --> 00:57:48,700
It's especially with the silence
around it. 

1145
00:57:48,740 --> 00:57:52,740
You go up and you're like pee. 
Pee. 

1146
00:57:53,380 --> 00:57:56,540
You know, it's not only the 
sound effect, but it's also like

1147
00:57:56,540 --> 00:57:59,820
it's pretty powerful. 
Like, it only takes a few hits 

1148
00:57:59,820 --> 00:58:03,380
to down pretty much any enemy. 
I mean, it's not ideal for every

1149
00:58:03,380 --> 00:58:07,700
situation, but I found myself 
using it more than I thought. 

1150
00:58:07,700 --> 00:58:10,740
I would like a base weapon, like
you never stick with the 

1151
00:58:10,740 --> 00:58:12,980
standard, but I was like this is
a pretty good standard. 

1152
00:58:13,260 --> 00:58:16,060
It's it's a good go to. 
It's a good thing to always have

1153
00:58:16,060 --> 00:58:18,940
and I Love Actually that reminds
me two things. 

1154
00:58:18,940 --> 00:58:21,860
Just reminded me of what we're 
talking about the guns is the 

1155
00:58:21,860 --> 00:58:24,220
with the pistol. 
I love the sound effect of the 

1156
00:58:24,220 --> 00:58:26,900
silencer of that and the sniper 
and stuff. 

1157
00:58:27,140 --> 00:58:28,660
They did such a good job with 
that. 

1158
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:35,880
And then I think it was, I 
think, yeah, in the movie, I 

1159
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:40,320
realized some of the sound 
effects in the game they took 

1160
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:42,200
from the movie. 
So like when some of the bullets

1161
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:44,880
are hitting off the wall and 
stuff, like the ricochet of the 

1162
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,440
bullets, yeah, those sound 
effects are in the movie. 

1163
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:49,520
And I'm like, Oh my God, I 
thought that was just a game. 

1164
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:53,040
This is amazing. 
So that little things like that 

1165
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:56,560
were really like fun touches 
because they, I guess they kind 

1166
00:58:56,560 --> 00:59:00,440
of had some time. 
In order to to to implement 

1167
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:02,520
those things. 
But those little touches I 

1168
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:05,320
thought were great. 
And then because I mentioned the

1169
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:07,720
club, I know at least we should 
talk about that a little bit 

1170
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:12,440
because the club was something 
that has a like a little bit of 

1171
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:16,480
a story to it because like you 
said it's like infamously weak. 

1172
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:19,920
But that was the thing that the 
team knew about like they that 

1173
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:21,840
that's. 
They did, yeah. 

1174
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:23,680
They did that to us on purpose, 
for sure. 

1175
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:26,400
They they just thought it was 
really fun to have. 

1176
00:59:27,070 --> 00:59:29,870
A big range of weapons, right? 
They they've kind of muddled 

1177
00:59:29,870 --> 00:59:32,750
this after Doom, but we're able 
to talk about all these guns we 

1178
00:59:32,750 --> 00:59:35,110
love now because they all have 
their own sort of feel and 

1179
00:59:35,110 --> 00:59:37,750
personality, and that's that. 
Those differences are created 

1180
00:59:37,750 --> 00:59:41,070
by, of course, how the gun looks
and sounds, but also the sort of

1181
00:59:41,070 --> 00:59:44,910
rate of fire, the the speed of 
reload, the accuracy, the amount

1182
00:59:44,910 --> 00:59:46,790
of damage inflicted by each 
bullet. 

1183
00:59:47,630 --> 00:59:50,950
And so that those created a 
really unique feel for each gun.

1184
00:59:50,990 --> 00:59:53,950
And so they did want to have a 
gun that kind of was a little 

1185
00:59:53,950 --> 00:59:57,150
bit wild and sprayed everywhere 
and and was a little bit. 

1186
00:59:57,870 --> 01:00:01,750
Duncan Batwood describes the 
club as chattery and just having

1187
01:00:01,750 --> 01:00:03,550
like a. 
Yeah, I read that and it was 

1188
01:00:03,550 --> 01:00:07,070
like or I've seen that in other 
places too it before this. 

1189
01:00:07,070 --> 01:00:10,470
And yeah, they were my that's 
that's what it sounds like. 

1190
01:00:11,420 --> 01:00:14,340
Like the plastic chattering 
teeth wind up teeth thing when 

1191
01:00:14,380 --> 01:00:17,900
you shoot. 
Yeah, and it kind of feels like 

1192
01:00:18,500 --> 01:00:20,140
cheap or something like 
lightweight. 

1193
01:00:20,140 --> 01:00:22,380
And it might just be because 
it's so inaccurate and it 

1194
01:00:22,420 --> 01:00:25,620
inflicts so little damage. 
But they always do point out 

1195
01:00:25,620 --> 01:00:28,740
that on licensed kill mode, one 
hit kill mode, it's the best 

1196
01:00:28,740 --> 01:00:32,300
weapon because it's got such a 
widespread and so it's the 

1197
01:00:32,300 --> 01:00:34,220
amount of damage inflicted 
doesn't matter at all. 

1198
01:00:34,860 --> 01:00:37,620
But yeah, I think the thing to 
keep in mind about the the guys 

1199
01:00:37,620 --> 01:00:40,610
making this game is they were. 
They were British guys who had 

1200
01:00:40,610 --> 01:00:43,770
never been around weapons before
and never had ever fired a gun. 

1201
01:00:43,770 --> 01:00:46,370
So they had a big picture book 
called Firearms of the World and

1202
01:00:46,370 --> 01:00:48,930
they were just looking for the 
the guns that looked cool. 

1203
01:00:48,930 --> 01:00:51,810
They were really inspired by the
movie Heat and John Blue action 

1204
01:00:51,810 --> 01:00:54,650
movies and they wanted the the 
guns that were in those movies, 

1205
01:00:54,650 --> 01:00:57,090
of course the the weapons that 
were in Golden Eye, the movie 

1206
01:00:57,090 --> 01:00:59,450
they included. 
And so yeah, they were. 

1207
01:00:59,450 --> 01:01:01,810
They were just kind of going off
what they what they thought 

1208
01:01:01,810 --> 01:01:05,490
looks cool and and sounded cool 
and when they when they ended up

1209
01:01:05,490 --> 01:01:07,760
making the club, they. 
They need to give all these 

1210
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:12,040
games, all these guns alternate 
names because the Nintendo legal

1211
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,840
people were concerned about 
copyright infringement on real 

1212
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:16,640
gun names, so they named the 
Club. 

1213
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:20,440
The club was modeled after a gun
called the Scorpion and changed 

1214
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:23,320
the name to the Spider. 
And then, after 800,000 

1215
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:26,800
instruction manuals were printed
with the name Spider as the club

1216
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:29,280
in them, they found out that 
Spider is the name of a 

1217
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:32,680
paintball gun, and so they had 
to change it again. 

1218
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:35,960
And this time they decided to 
name it Club after Ken Lobb, the

1219
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:38,520
Nintendo of America employee who
had really gone to bat for the 

1220
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:41,640
game and really kind of pushed 
for them to be allowed to 

1221
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:43,520
include the multiplayer at the 
last minute. 

1222
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:45,880
And now, now all the guys feel 
sort of guilty that they named 

1223
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:48,280
this terrible weapon after after
Ken Lobb. 

1224
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:51,160
And he's super happy. 
He's he's like, no, I love this.

1225
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:53,840
It's great. 
I, you know they kind of joke 

1226
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:57,160
like or Ken Lobb will say yeah, 
it's it's really loud and wildly

1227
01:01:57,160 --> 01:01:58,200
inaccurate. 
That's me. 

1228
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:02,560
These guys are good sport about 
it. 

1229
01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:04,280
That's great. 
It's I mean it's just sounds 

1230
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:06,120
like all these guys are just 
having so much fun. 

1231
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:08,880
You know like you mentioned 
before it's amazing how like the

1232
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:11,480
fun that they had and the 
camaraderie that they had and 

1233
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:15,320
all that stuff, it shows in the 
final product. 

1234
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:20,160
I mean, like there's this is 
just like such a monumental 

1235
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:23,000
game. 
Because yes, there were, there 

1236
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:26,280
were first person shooters 
available before this, But 

1237
01:02:26,820 --> 01:02:29,980
unless you had a PC, which, you 
know, some people did, and 

1238
01:02:29,980 --> 01:02:33,660
unless you had one that could 
run Doom or unless you were 

1239
01:02:33,660 --> 01:02:38,260
allowed to own Doom as a kid, 
like, yeah, right. 

1240
01:02:38,460 --> 01:02:40,260
I never, I never owned it. 
It was always at a friend's 

1241
01:02:40,260 --> 01:02:41,900
place. 
And I don't know, I feel like, 

1242
01:02:41,900 --> 01:02:43,580
you know, it was, it was 
shareware and stuff, right? 

1243
01:02:43,580 --> 01:02:46,900
So it's easy to get a hold of. 
But I also never had Internets 

1244
01:02:46,940 --> 01:02:49,180
until I was in high school. 
Like all that kind of stuff was 

1245
01:02:49,420 --> 01:02:53,140
just not available to me. 
And yet this, this is what 

1246
01:02:53,140 --> 01:02:55,500
stands out as that. 
Like Doom is obviously iconic 

1247
01:02:55,500 --> 01:02:59,150
cast. 
Castlevania Wolfenstein is is 

1248
01:02:59,150 --> 01:03:02,150
obviously, you know those games 
are there, but there's something

1249
01:03:02,150 --> 01:03:07,070
about this game that is just 
ingrained in gaming and just 

1250
01:03:07,070 --> 01:03:10,830
culture in general and I just, I
it's insane. 

1251
01:03:10,910 --> 01:03:14,750
It's just insane that these guys
did this in such a small, with 

1252
01:03:14,750 --> 01:03:17,110
such a small team in like a 
tight space. 

1253
01:03:17,790 --> 01:03:20,390
I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna 
throw this out there because we 

1254
01:03:20,390 --> 01:03:22,750
were talking about how how much 
fun they must have been having 

1255
01:03:22,750 --> 01:03:24,870
and stuff. 
So the book has pictures. 

1256
01:03:25,470 --> 01:03:28,630
And you get those, those 
pictures of, like, I'm looking 

1257
01:03:28,630 --> 01:03:32,870
at Martin Hollis right now, 
convinced David is a doke. 

1258
01:03:32,990 --> 01:03:34,230
David Doke. 
Sorry, I'm. 

1259
01:03:34,550 --> 01:03:36,670
Yeah, my fonts small. 
Any glasses? 

1260
01:03:37,430 --> 01:03:39,310
But, you know, you just look at 
the pictures and they're sitting

1261
01:03:39,310 --> 01:03:40,390
there, they're smoking a 
cigarette. 

1262
01:03:40,390 --> 01:03:43,950
You know, long ponytail, like, 
yeah, you know, drinks. 

1263
01:03:44,190 --> 01:03:46,390
If you look at the table, 
there's just drinks everywhere. 

1264
01:03:46,630 --> 01:03:48,750
And it's like, yeah, you know, 
they were having a good time. 

1265
01:03:48,750 --> 01:03:49,390
Yeah. 
Oh yeah. 

1266
01:03:50,790 --> 01:03:52,910
Absolutely. 
They have all kinds of stories 

1267
01:03:52,910 --> 01:03:55,830
about sneaking off campus cuz 
you weren't allowed to smoke it 

1268
01:03:55,830 --> 01:03:57,870
rare. 
So they would sneak across the 

1269
01:03:57,870 --> 01:04:00,870
street to a little church, 
church, backyard or something. 

1270
01:04:00,870 --> 01:04:03,870
And they. 
Yeah, they were just so young. 

1271
01:04:03,870 --> 01:04:05,990
And, you know, honestly, they 
were. 

1272
01:04:06,030 --> 01:04:09,670
They were quite close to people.
My students age now and I teach 

1273
01:04:09,950 --> 01:04:11,710
people who are trying to create 
their own art. 

1274
01:04:11,750 --> 01:04:13,470
And so I've found it to be 
really. 

1275
01:04:13,900 --> 01:04:17,220
Inspiring reminder that if 
you're making something and and 

1276
01:04:17,220 --> 01:04:19,980
you are genuinely enjoying it, 
you are having fun. 

1277
01:04:20,300 --> 01:04:23,140
You are being true to yourself. 
You are being honest and and 

1278
01:04:23,140 --> 01:04:26,700
it's and it's moving to you, 
then it will be meaningful to 

1279
01:04:26,700 --> 01:04:29,060
someone else. 
We we get so focused on. 

1280
01:04:29,060 --> 01:04:31,820
Like imagining what our readers 
or our viewers or our listeners,

1281
01:04:31,820 --> 01:04:34,910
I guess in y'all's case, want. 
But then at the end of the day, 

1282
01:04:34,910 --> 01:04:37,910
like you have to you were your 
own first audience and I think 

1283
01:04:37,910 --> 01:04:40,070
those those guys like you 
described it with how much fun 

1284
01:04:40,070 --> 01:04:42,030
they were having really stayed 
true to that. 

1285
01:04:42,550 --> 01:04:47,790
Yeah absolutely. 
It's it's it's just a fun time. 

1286
01:04:47,790 --> 01:04:52,110
I just, I I was, I was worried 
it was going to be I mean maybe 

1287
01:04:52,110 --> 01:04:54,710
it's like maybe it's you know 
using the Xbox controller and 

1288
01:04:54,710 --> 01:04:56,630
sort of like ended up working 
out for me a little bit more. 

1289
01:04:56,630 --> 01:05:00,150
I still felt totally fine 
playing it with the with the 64 

1290
01:05:00,150 --> 01:05:01,710
controller. 
It didn't bother me at all. 

1291
01:05:01,710 --> 01:05:05,550
But like I, you know, there's 
enough chatter online. 

1292
01:05:05,550 --> 01:05:08,630
It's very easy to be cynical, 
very easy to be like, you know, 

1293
01:05:08,710 --> 01:05:11,270
mean on the Internet behind a 
username and stuff. 

1294
01:05:11,550 --> 01:05:14,270
So there's like chatter there 
that that spreads, that's like, 

1295
01:05:14,270 --> 01:05:17,550
oh, this game doesn't hold up 
and oh, it's it's trash now or 

1296
01:05:17,550 --> 01:05:19,910
whatever. 
And I just do not agree, 

1297
01:05:19,910 --> 01:05:24,070
especially after revisiting it. 
Like, yeah, it's, it feels like 

1298
01:05:24,070 --> 01:05:27,870
it was made when it was, but 
that's not a bad thing, you 

1299
01:05:27,870 --> 01:05:30,670
know? 
That is a positive in my mind. 

1300
01:05:31,420 --> 01:05:34,420
Totally. 
I mean it's like when you when 

1301
01:05:34,420 --> 01:05:38,460
you see a picture of like your 
grandfather when he was like old

1302
01:05:38,460 --> 01:05:41,260
and and kind of hot and kind of 
like good looking and like 

1303
01:05:41,260 --> 01:05:43,620
you're like oh, you must have 
gotten all the girls and like if

1304
01:05:43,620 --> 01:05:46,380
you could go back in time and 
like throw down with him, he 

1305
01:05:46,380 --> 01:05:48,420
could throw down, you know, and 
now he's. 

1306
01:05:48,860 --> 01:05:52,060
Old he's older and he but he 
throws down in a different way 

1307
01:05:52,860 --> 01:05:56,820
and he you know he's got kind of
bad knees and and maybe he can't

1308
01:05:56,820 --> 01:05:58,860
always remember things. 
It's like, yeah, this game shows

1309
01:05:58,860 --> 01:06:01,140
its age for sure. 
That's that's not there's no 

1310
01:06:01,140 --> 01:06:01,780
debate. 
Right there. 

1311
01:06:02,660 --> 01:06:05,420
It's not as perennially great as
Super Mario 3, I don't think, 

1312
01:06:05,420 --> 01:06:11,220
but it still throws down now and
for its time, it really, really 

1313
01:06:11,220 --> 01:06:13,780
threw down and was incredibly 
new and innovative. 

1314
01:06:14,060 --> 01:06:20,220
Yeah, absolutely. 
Well, it's like so so this is so

1315
01:06:20,740 --> 01:06:24,780
that's my cat. 
She just Full disclosure, my cat

1316
01:06:24,780 --> 01:06:27,860
just scared the crap out of me 
because she just like jumped. 

1317
01:06:28,350 --> 01:06:29,950
She jumped. 
I had the door closed. 

1318
01:06:29,950 --> 01:06:34,110
She jumped on the door and like,
threw it open and like, reacted.

1319
01:06:34,110 --> 01:06:36,310
So if anybody sees the video of 
this, they're going to see me 

1320
01:06:36,310 --> 01:06:38,550
like React at some point. 
Amazing. 

1321
01:06:39,030 --> 01:06:43,070
But anyways, so my my YouTube 
channel, I actually started 

1322
01:06:43,070 --> 01:06:48,590
because I saw a video about 
someone bashing Donkey Kong 64 

1323
01:06:49,710 --> 01:06:53,430
and I was like, I love Donkey 
Kong 64. 

1324
01:06:54,210 --> 01:06:57,210
And so I started my YouTube 
channel. 

1325
01:06:57,210 --> 01:06:59,250
I was like, I love it, here's 
why. 

1326
01:06:59,530 --> 01:07:04,810
And I made a video about it. 
And so I'm so like, people 

1327
01:07:04,810 --> 01:07:06,050
online say they don't like a 
game. 

1328
01:07:06,050 --> 01:07:07,610
I'm like, that makes me like it 
more. 

1329
01:07:07,650 --> 01:07:10,370
At this point, yeah, I'll show 
you. 

1330
01:07:12,450 --> 01:07:14,490
Seriously. 
No, there's something to it. 

1331
01:07:14,970 --> 01:07:18,410
Like a game and one of those, 
the game's really good. 

1332
01:07:19,180 --> 01:07:20,860
But it's not necessarily always 
the case. 

1333
01:07:20,860 --> 01:07:22,140
But that's why we like 
something. 

1334
01:07:22,140 --> 01:07:23,420
I mean there it could be 
nostalgia. 

1335
01:07:23,420 --> 01:07:26,980
It could be that it hit you in 
the in the fields just because 

1336
01:07:26,980 --> 01:07:29,180
of who you are or because of 
where you're at with your life 

1337
01:07:29,180 --> 01:07:32,020
or whatever. 
But yeah, we shouldn't, we 

1338
01:07:32,020 --> 01:07:33,380
shouldn't be trying to. 
Yuck anyone's Yum. 

1339
01:07:33,380 --> 01:07:36,460
I'm big on that. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

1340
01:07:36,460 --> 01:07:43,460
And and just just to just to 
just to wrap up with just how 

1341
01:07:43,860 --> 01:07:46,220
many copies were out there of 
this game. 

1342
01:07:47,420 --> 01:07:51,980
I believe this is worldwide, but
it is the third best selling 

1343
01:07:51,980 --> 01:07:54,740
game on the console. 
Yes, it was bundled with some 

1344
01:07:54,740 --> 01:07:58,700
consoles, but as we know, you 
didn't have to get it then in 

1345
01:07:58,700 --> 01:08:04,940
order to get this game, right. 
8,090,000 copies according to 

1346
01:08:04,940 --> 01:08:08,750
the Yeah. 
So yeah, a little Austin Powers.

1347
01:08:08,750 --> 01:08:10,830
Which, by the way, we haven't 
brought up Austin Powers, but I 

1348
01:08:10,830 --> 01:08:11,910
could. 
Not help. 

1349
01:08:12,070 --> 01:08:13,390
Think of that. 
Yeah. 

1350
01:08:13,470 --> 01:08:15,990
So it was gonna bring it up. 
That was me. 

1351
01:08:16,029 --> 01:08:18,029
So not. 
For you have to I set it up, 

1352
01:08:19,630 --> 01:08:23,109
yeah. 
Austin Powers was one of those 

1353
01:08:23,109 --> 01:08:25,830
movies that I watched a little 
bit too early. 

1354
01:08:25,830 --> 01:08:27,029
Or at least the first one 
anyway. 

1355
01:08:28,069 --> 01:08:34,050
Just constantly, constantly on. 
I mean really as a yeah, I was 

1356
01:08:34,090 --> 01:08:36,689
like 1213 year old. 
I probably shouldn't have 

1357
01:08:36,689 --> 01:08:40,210
watched the first one, but it 
was like always so especially 

1358
01:08:40,210 --> 01:08:42,410
the second ones. 
But you know, it's it's funny 

1359
01:08:42,410 --> 01:08:44,810
because you know, it's they're 
not they're not fantastic 

1360
01:08:44,810 --> 01:08:46,490
movies, they're just goofy or 
whatever. 

1361
01:08:46,689 --> 01:08:51,410
But watching Goldeneye again, 
playing through it and all like 

1362
01:08:51,410 --> 01:08:53,850
just small things, small hints 
here and there. 

1363
01:08:53,850 --> 01:08:57,330
I was like, oh, that's awesome, 
Powers or oh, you know, like I 

1364
01:08:57,410 --> 01:09:01,920
knew it was riffing on on James 
Bond at the time, but I didn't 

1365
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:03,960
really understand what they were
riffing on. 

1366
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:06,439
And it's just this is one of 
those movies because the movie 

1367
01:09:06,439 --> 01:09:10,399
was so big, it's easy for them 
to, for him, for Mike Myers to 

1368
01:09:10,399 --> 01:09:13,640
have to go and and grab from a 
movie like this, not just, you 

1369
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:15,760
know, the Sean Connery days for 
example and stuff, so. 

1370
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:18,960
Yeah, I don't know about y'all, 
but I'm definitely one of those 

1371
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:22,160
millennials that, like, saw, 
like played the game before I 

1372
01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:23,960
saw the movie. 
In fact, I don't think I'd ever 

1373
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:26,240
seen a James Bond movie before 
playing this game. 

1374
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:28,359
It introduced me to the entire 
franchise. 

1375
01:09:28,359 --> 01:09:30,399
And so one of the arguments I 
make in the book is that. 

1376
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:34,000
Goldeneye, the game I think 
played a major role in in saving

1377
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:36,600
the Bond franchise. 
And then you know, in terms of 

1378
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:39,439
like your your show at large, I 
think Goldeneye played a really 

1379
01:09:39,439 --> 01:09:42,560
significant role in saving the 
N64 and therefore saving 

1380
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:44,439
Nintendo. 
And I know that's a huge claim 

1381
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:47,240
and I know that it's not 100% 
accurate, but we have to make 

1382
01:09:47,240 --> 01:09:49,880
fun, big claims. 
But yeah, I I think the Nintendo

1383
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:53,200
64 would have totally flopped if
it weren't for Goldeneye. 

1384
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:56,520
We know that from sales numbers 
and just from, you know, the way

1385
01:09:56,520 --> 01:09:57,800
people were writing about it 
online. 

1386
01:09:57,800 --> 01:09:59,600
Like I guess I have to get an N 
60. 

1387
01:09:59,890 --> 01:10:03,650
Now so that I can play this game
and without the N 60, I mean you

1388
01:10:03,810 --> 01:10:06,250
know the insects were just kind 
of scraped by and and that's 

1389
01:10:06,250 --> 01:10:09,690
that's how no live to fight 
another day with the GameCube. 

1390
01:10:10,610 --> 01:10:14,410
Yeah yeah no kidding. 
But but it's true like that it's

1391
01:10:14,410 --> 01:10:16,850
yes there's other there were 
other games in development at 

1392
01:10:16,850 --> 01:10:20,210
this time and yes there were 
things that came out 9899, two 

1393
01:10:20,210 --> 01:10:22,810
thousand or whatever. 
But I don't know that like late 

1394
01:10:22,810 --> 01:10:27,330
99, mid 2000, like those last 
couple of, you know, years of 

1395
01:10:27,330 --> 01:10:30,640
the console really would have 
happened unless you have this. 

1396
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:33,360
Because even just looking at the
top, like sales charts quickly, 

1397
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:40,040
if Goldeneye was out in 97, the 
closest one that has high sales 

1398
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:44,720
is Diddy Kong Racing in 97 and 
Star Fox 64, which came out just

1399
01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:49,520
before everything else is Mario 
Kart, Super Mario and then 

1400
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:52,440
everything else is 9899. 
Two thousand, right. 

1401
01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:56,240
So yeah, so a lot of those 
games, you know, I'm sure Donkey

1402
01:10:56,240 --> 01:11:00,990
Kong 64 was being, you know, at 
least early stages that when 

1403
01:11:00,990 --> 01:11:03,710
this game was being made, but 
also also rare. 

1404
01:11:04,670 --> 01:11:08,870
But maybe they wouldn't have 
been given the same leash. 

1405
01:11:08,870 --> 01:11:11,750
Or maybe they wouldn't have as 
much money or as big of a team. 

1406
01:11:11,950 --> 01:11:14,390
Whatever, right? 
And Goldman was meant to reach a

1407
01:11:14,390 --> 01:11:17,510
different audience than than 
folks who would have been 

1408
01:11:17,510 --> 01:11:19,630
playing Donkey Kong 64 and 
Banjo, too. 

1409
01:11:19,630 --> 01:11:22,110
We, of course, Conquer and and 
Goldeneye were kind of in this 

1410
01:11:22,270 --> 01:11:24,910
adult gaming category. 
And we're yeah, we're really 

1411
01:11:24,910 --> 01:11:28,350
still trying to fight that 
console war that they had kind 

1412
01:11:28,350 --> 01:11:30,350
of been. 
Losing to to Sonic and this 

1413
01:11:30,350 --> 01:11:33,910
edgier, more more grown up vibe 
and so they were really 

1414
01:11:33,910 --> 01:11:36,150
experimenting with it. 
I think they obviously came back

1415
01:11:36,150 --> 01:11:38,510
full circle and now they're 
still your your cartoon family 

1416
01:11:38,510 --> 01:11:42,990
friendly company, but the the 
the 90s and and odds are really 

1417
01:11:42,990 --> 01:11:45,630
interesting time for Nintendo 
experimenting with more adult 

1418
01:11:45,630 --> 01:11:50,310
themes and more, you know 
grittier, less family friendly 

1419
01:11:50,310 --> 01:11:52,950
games and so I I find it a super
interesting time in their 

1420
01:11:52,950 --> 01:11:55,590
history. 
Yeah, and your your claim about.

1421
01:11:56,110 --> 01:12:00,190
Goldeneye saving 64. 
I mean, like you, you can make 

1422
01:12:00,190 --> 01:12:02,190
an argument for the game, but 
you can't. 

1423
01:12:02,750 --> 01:12:05,390
You can't make an, I must say, 
can't argue. 

1424
01:12:06,190 --> 01:12:08,390
Can't. 
Yes, you can make an argument 

1425
01:12:08,390 --> 01:12:11,030
for the game, but you can't 
argue with the fact that Rare 

1426
01:12:11,270 --> 01:12:15,830
definitely saved the N64 with 
their library so and that just 

1427
01:12:15,830 --> 01:12:19,230
that Goldeneye and that really 
kind of catalyst everything 

1428
01:12:19,230 --> 01:12:22,870
because. 
Like, even Donkey Kong 64 had 

1429
01:12:22,870 --> 01:12:25,070
influences from Goldeneye. 
That's why Donkey Kong had the 

1430
01:12:25,070 --> 01:12:27,870
gun. 
Yeah, you know, like really 

1431
01:12:27,950 --> 01:12:30,510
great. 
I'd talk about that, yeah. 

1432
01:12:30,830 --> 01:12:33,110
Great point. 
I mean there's just, there's so 

1433
01:12:33,110 --> 01:12:36,470
many good ideas rolling around 
in that you know in that campus 

1434
01:12:36,510 --> 01:12:38,190
or in that workplace or 
whatever, right. 

1435
01:12:38,190 --> 01:12:39,910
And they just sort of. 
Totally, yeah. 

1436
01:12:40,110 --> 01:12:42,030
I think Donke Kong sees you 
first for the example of how 

1437
01:12:42,030 --> 01:12:45,710
they meshed a lot of their ideas
together, you know? 

1438
01:12:46,700 --> 01:12:50,180
And a lot of it work together, 
but some, you know, as we've 

1439
01:12:50,180 --> 01:12:53,740
discussed, as we've discussed in
the previous episode, some of it

1440
01:12:53,740 --> 01:12:55,940
works really well and some of it
just feels like too much. 

1441
01:12:56,620 --> 01:12:58,900
But there's something about 
about Goldeneye where it has 

1442
01:12:58,900 --> 01:13:03,380
like this perfect balance and 
you know, and and that's 

1443
01:13:03,380 --> 01:13:07,180
honestly the perfect balance 
could even just be like you 

1444
01:13:07,180 --> 01:13:10,540
said, I think towards the 
beginning of of a recording of 

1445
01:13:10,540 --> 01:13:14,340
how like multiplayer was sort of
they were told like don't do it 

1446
01:13:15,130 --> 01:13:17,090
and they still did. 
But all of this stuff we're 

1447
01:13:17,090 --> 01:13:20,370
saying I think could be true if 
multiplayer wasn't in this game.

1448
01:13:20,650 --> 01:13:24,970
So add that on top of it, which 
is what a lot of people remember

1449
01:13:24,970 --> 01:13:28,090
because it gets you either at 
that age, perfect age to get 

1450
01:13:28,090 --> 01:13:31,010
together, perfect console, the 
first one with four controllers,

1451
01:13:31,010 --> 01:13:34,810
like all these things that came 
together, it has this perfect 

1452
01:13:34,810 --> 01:13:40,090
middle ground and and if someone
hasn't played it, they're scared

1453
01:13:40,090 --> 01:13:42,330
about the way it controls on 
like the Switch for example. 

1454
01:13:42,330 --> 01:13:46,040
Or if you have Game Pass, I 
still think you absolutely 

1455
01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:48,200
should play it, even if you're 
not playing multiplayer. 

1456
01:13:49,240 --> 01:13:52,280
Agreed. 
Yeah, I do think that it's a fun

1457
01:13:52,280 --> 01:13:57,640
one to play now, and it also is 
so important for a very specific

1458
01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:01,560
generation of humans because of 
exactly what you said. 

1459
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:05,960
Those of us who have grown up 
with Mario on the NES or Super 

1460
01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:08,080
NES, or played, played on the 
Genesis. 

1461
01:14:08,590 --> 01:14:11,150
Then we're starting to want a 
little something, a little bit 

1462
01:14:11,150 --> 01:14:13,110
more mature. 
Then we got this game and it 

1463
01:14:13,110 --> 01:14:15,990
kind of feels like the console 
grew up with us. 

1464
01:14:16,510 --> 01:14:18,070
Yeah, in a really fun way. 
Yeah. 

1465
01:14:18,150 --> 01:14:22,910
Yeah, exactly. 
At least I just wanna say thank 

1466
01:14:22,910 --> 01:14:24,110
you. 
I wanna say thank you for 

1467
01:14:24,110 --> 01:14:26,550
taking. 
The time thank you, no thank you

1468
01:14:26,550 --> 01:14:28,590
it was. 
So much fun. 

1469
01:14:28,590 --> 01:14:31,470
I've really enjoyed chatting 
with you and I've learned so 

1470
01:14:31,470 --> 01:14:34,230
much and I've just really 
enjoyed getting to think through

1471
01:14:34,230 --> 01:14:37,200
all this with y'all oh of course
and and you know what, Not not 

1472
01:14:37,200 --> 01:14:39,280
only thanks for taking the time,
but thanks for writing like a 

1473
01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:43,440
book and books like this because
I honestly I think that they are

1474
01:14:43,440 --> 01:14:46,680
are valuable resources for 
people that are either are 

1475
01:14:46,760 --> 01:14:50,560
either don't know the history of
games like this or Super Mario 

1476
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:53,400
Brothers Three or any of the 
other boss fight books games 

1477
01:14:53,400 --> 01:14:56,960
like there's a lot to dig into 
you know and. 

1478
01:14:58,040 --> 01:15:01,080
There's a lot on 64 titles, so 
yeah, there's, there's put. 

1479
01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:03,960
If you're an N64 fan, there's 
plenty plenty to read from boss 

1480
01:15:03,960 --> 01:15:05,340
fight. 
Yeah exactly. 

1481
01:15:05,340 --> 01:15:07,860
And they have physical and 
digital copies of stuff which is

1482
01:15:07,860 --> 01:15:11,060
great. 
And yeah, I I just you know 

1483
01:15:11,060 --> 01:15:14,500
thanks for taking the time to to
talk with us and and our goofy 

1484
01:15:14,500 --> 01:15:17,780
little nerdy 64 show here and. 
And I will say all. 

1485
01:15:18,180 --> 01:15:20,140
Day. 
I will say that your book is 

1486
01:15:20,140 --> 01:15:22,820
very well written. 
I don't know that we said that, 

1487
01:15:22,820 --> 01:15:27,180
so it's very well written. 
I was trapped in an airport the 

1488
01:15:27,180 --> 01:15:32,860
other day like last weekend, and
I passed the time by reading 

1489
01:15:32,860 --> 01:15:33,980
your book. 
So. 

1490
01:15:34,470 --> 01:15:36,950
No, I'm honored. 
Thank you for spending your time

1491
01:15:36,990 --> 01:15:37,710
that way. 
That's that's. 

1492
01:15:37,830 --> 01:15:39,830
I I was. 
Like thank you. 

1493
01:15:40,230 --> 01:15:43,310
I was like, I gotta read this. 
I was like, I this is perfect 

1494
01:15:43,310 --> 01:15:44,590
timing. 
And then I pulled it up and then

1495
01:15:44,590 --> 01:15:46,310
I was just like. 
So I helped you feel like you 

1496
01:15:46,310 --> 01:15:48,070
were escaping a little like. 
Yeah. 

1497
01:15:48,350 --> 01:15:50,630
Oh, I love it. 
I love diving into the history 

1498
01:15:50,630 --> 01:15:53,750
of rare Like that to me was 
like, that was so cool. 

1499
01:15:53,750 --> 01:15:55,990
I love the history of it. 
That was just awesome because 

1500
01:15:56,030 --> 01:15:58,950
obviously Rare's a big part of 
my life. 

1501
01:16:00,150 --> 01:16:01,590
Yeah. 
Oh yeah, yeah. 

1502
01:16:01,590 --> 01:16:04,230
And the street, yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, and the shirt and the 

1503
01:16:04,230 --> 01:16:07,670
Cocker shirt. 
And so yeah, it was awesome. 

1504
01:16:07,670 --> 01:16:10,830
It was great. 
I wanted to bring up two things 

1505
01:16:10,950 --> 01:16:18,750
before we end this and the first
is have you guys seen the ROM of

1506
01:16:18,750 --> 01:16:20,790
Golden Eye with Mario 
characters? 

1507
01:16:22,550 --> 01:16:23,590
Yes, I. 
Don't know that I Mario. 

1508
01:16:23,870 --> 01:16:26,590
Yeah. 
It's pretty funny. 

1509
01:16:26,630 --> 01:16:30,690
It's amazing. 
Like Koopas or enemies you've 

1510
01:16:30,690 --> 01:16:37,130
got like Natalia is Peach, Daisy
is Zenya and Luigi is Trevlin. 

1511
01:16:37,490 --> 01:16:39,850
And like they they like change 
the dialogue and things. 

1512
01:16:39,850 --> 01:16:42,450
So like Luigi, I wrote this down
because I was like it was pretty

1513
01:16:42,450 --> 01:16:44,570
funny. 
He's like running away from 

1514
01:16:44,650 --> 01:16:46,450
Mario and he's like finish the 
job. 

1515
01:16:46,450 --> 01:16:52,460
Mario, if you were Cam. 
I just love that the game has 

1516
01:16:52,540 --> 01:16:55,340
this continued life with with 
people modding it and there's 

1517
01:16:55,340 --> 01:16:58,220
some mods that are really fun. 
So I just, I just opened it up. 

1518
01:16:58,220 --> 01:17:00,540
You're gonna? 
Recreate like World War 2 areas 

1519
01:17:00,620 --> 01:17:02,420
or OOP. 
Give me one second. 

1520
01:17:02,780 --> 01:17:05,500
Yeah. 
Yes. 

1521
01:17:06,180 --> 01:17:08,180
Oh my God. 
Who this is? 

1522
01:17:08,940 --> 01:17:11,620
This is one of the scientists, 
and it's Yoshi. 

1523
01:17:11,780 --> 01:17:13,300
Yeah, it's Yoshi Body and the 
scientist. 

1524
01:17:13,820 --> 01:17:17,940
Yes, it's awesome. 
Disable the a security. 

1525
01:17:18,940 --> 01:17:20,140
I know it's something so. 
Sweet. 

1526
01:17:20,300 --> 01:17:23,420
Something for viewers to look up
that's that's excellent, That's 

1527
01:17:23,420 --> 01:17:24,740
so funny. 
I never saw that before. 

1528
01:17:24,740 --> 01:17:26,500
And you can play them. 
I mean, you can download all 

1529
01:17:26,620 --> 01:17:29,540
this. 
You can play them if you if you 

1530
01:17:29,540 --> 01:17:31,860
want more Goldeneye. 
You know, like there's lots out 

1531
01:17:31,860 --> 01:17:34,260
there by really creative people 
and their hearts middle levels 

1532
01:17:34,260 --> 01:17:36,340
are very hard and super 
engaging. 

1533
01:17:36,780 --> 01:17:39,220
Yeah, yeah, it's super cool. 
That's that's the cool thing 

1534
01:17:39,220 --> 01:17:43,100
about 64 right now. 
Just the mod scene. 

1535
01:17:43,660 --> 01:17:45,860
Creating. 
I just love that people, people 

1536
01:17:45,860 --> 01:17:48,900
can put these and actually have 
them run on physical hardware. 

1537
01:17:49,100 --> 01:17:52,740
It's not just, it's not 
emulation, it's it's you put it 

1538
01:17:52,740 --> 01:17:55,860
on a cartridge, you can put it 
in your 64 and you can play the 

1539
01:17:55,860 --> 01:17:58,540
game. 
And I just absolutely adore that

1540
01:17:58,580 --> 01:18:01,340
there's tons of banjo modding. 
That modding scene is huge. 

1541
01:18:01,340 --> 01:18:04,140
Goldeneye. 
It's like a lot of rare stuff, 

1542
01:18:04,140 --> 01:18:08,740
which is just so cool to me. 
And then the other thing I just 

1543
01:18:08,740 --> 01:18:11,100
wanted to bring up because I I 
told Dave I would. 

1544
01:18:12,450 --> 01:18:16,570
Fam Kay Jensen She's hot, so 
yes. 

1545
01:18:17,050 --> 01:18:18,450
Yes. 
And she. 

1546
01:18:18,890 --> 01:18:21,530
Yeah. 
And she actually, she's Xenia, 

1547
01:18:21,530 --> 01:18:22,210
right? 
Yeah, yeah. 

1548
01:18:22,370 --> 01:18:26,170
Yeah. 
So she lived up to her name 

1549
01:18:26,170 --> 01:18:28,090
because I don't know if I was 
able to put this in the book or 

1550
01:18:28,090 --> 01:18:31,410
not, but during filming. 
So okay for anyone who's not 

1551
01:18:31,410 --> 01:18:32,850
familiar with the movie she 
does. 

1552
01:18:33,550 --> 01:18:36,630
She's named Xenia on the top and
then she does kill a man by 

1553
01:18:36,950 --> 01:18:39,870
straddling him during sex and 
and like strangling him. 

1554
01:18:40,030 --> 01:18:41,950
Yes, with her thighs. 
So incredible. 

1555
01:18:41,990 --> 01:18:43,470
Classic one boned girl. 
But. 

1556
01:18:44,420 --> 01:18:48,460
She actually, the actress sent a
stunts guy to the hospital 

1557
01:18:48,460 --> 01:18:50,380
during filming. 
She really. 

1558
01:18:52,300 --> 01:18:53,020
Yes. 
Yeah. 

1559
01:18:53,020 --> 01:18:55,020
She she actually really did hurt
him. 

1560
01:18:55,020 --> 01:18:57,460
So she's she's fierce and she's 
amazing. 

1561
01:18:57,460 --> 01:19:00,340
And yeah, the 90s were. 
I touched on this a little bit 

1562
01:19:00,340 --> 01:19:02,580
in the book, but the 90s were a 
super interesting time for 

1563
01:19:02,580 --> 01:19:04,500
gender in the Bond movies 
because. 

1564
01:19:05,340 --> 01:19:09,340
They were like really concerned 
like is people are people too PC

1565
01:19:09,340 --> 01:19:12,460
now will they not like that we 
have these Bond girls. 

1566
01:19:12,460 --> 01:19:15,140
So they they tried to emphasize 
that they have a computer 

1567
01:19:15,140 --> 01:19:18,140
programming Bond girl doing this
kind of traditionally male role 

1568
01:19:18,140 --> 01:19:21,260
and she's super smart. 
And you have Xenia who's super 

1569
01:19:21,260 --> 01:19:22,300
badass. 
Yeah. 

1570
01:19:22,580 --> 01:19:24,620
So you're trying to pitch this, 
you know, purpose? 

1571
01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:27,720
Right, they did. 
And what's funny though, it's 

1572
01:19:27,720 --> 01:19:30,720
like they had even have M in the
movie, said Judi Dench. 

1573
01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:33,040
Say to Bond, you know, you're a 
misogynist dinosaur. 

1574
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:36,040
Then you've got Pierce Brosnan 
on the publicity tour for the 

1575
01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:38,680
movie was saying the most 
horrible thing. 

1576
01:19:38,920 --> 01:19:42,880
He was like, he's a show, he's a
chauvinist and he's proud of it.

1577
01:19:42,920 --> 01:19:46,320
And if a girl gives him any lip,
he's gonna slap her around and 

1578
01:19:46,320 --> 01:19:48,320
you're like, Oh my God, you have
to imagine the movie executives 

1579
01:19:48,320 --> 01:19:51,960
were like, Pierce, shut up. 
Like going for. 

1580
01:19:53,160 --> 01:19:55,720
It OK. 
Yeah, they couldn't control it. 

1581
01:19:56,680 --> 01:19:59,080
Say whatever you want. 
You know what, Maybe he just 

1582
01:19:59,080 --> 01:20:01,960
didn't actually. 
He didn't know what was else was

1583
01:20:01,960 --> 01:20:03,680
said in the movie. 
So he's like, Oh yeah, no, I'm 

1584
01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:06,120
just basically Sean Connery. 
This is basically 78 like for 

1585
01:20:06,120 --> 01:20:07,320
sure I could say. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1586
01:20:07,560 --> 01:20:10,920
That sound very Sean Connery. 
Yeah, that's nobody like. 

1587
01:20:11,440 --> 01:20:13,720
It seems like that's what he was
playing when he was doing 

1588
01:20:13,720 --> 01:20:15,640
publicity. 
It's like, dude, that's not, 

1589
01:20:15,720 --> 01:20:17,960
yeah, what was happening here, 
right. 

1590
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:20,440
That's not the vibe at all in 
the movies that he just, yeah, I

1591
01:20:20,440 --> 01:20:22,680
don't know what got into him, 
but it's very. 

1592
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:24,560
Funny. 
And and and it's and that's like

1593
01:20:24,560 --> 01:20:27,590
one of the first things that. 
That is said to him by M2, 

1594
01:20:27,590 --> 01:20:29,110
right? 
She's just like, I don't want to

1595
01:20:29,110 --> 01:20:32,110
hear your misogynistic, yeah 
excuses or something like that's

1596
01:20:32,110 --> 01:20:33,790
like, yeah. 
Right there. 

1597
01:20:33,790 --> 01:20:35,750
And and of course it's her too. 
Like Judi Dench. 

1598
01:20:35,750 --> 01:20:38,350
Just saying anything like that 
to someone is like that first. 

1599
01:20:38,350 --> 01:20:39,710
Hell yeah. 
I mean love it. 

1600
01:20:40,510 --> 01:20:42,830
It's it's a very cool. 
Yeah, it's hard to remember 

1601
01:20:42,830 --> 01:20:44,190
that. 
You know when that when that 

1602
01:20:44,190 --> 01:20:46,990
movie came out, it had been a 
long gap between the last Spawn 

1603
01:20:46,990 --> 01:20:48,870
movie and the next. 
They were worried about the 

1604
01:20:48,870 --> 01:20:50,550
franchise. 
They were worried that like, 

1605
01:20:50,980 --> 01:20:53,420
hey, the, the Soviet Union's 
kind of over, or is our 

1606
01:20:53,420 --> 01:20:55,660
franchise even relevant? 
Who's he gonna fight? 

1607
01:20:55,660 --> 01:20:57,620
Who's, you know, now they're 
computers, they're cyber 

1608
01:20:57,620 --> 01:20:58,540
attacks. 
What are we gonna do? 

1609
01:20:58,820 --> 01:21:01,580
So going I represents a big a 
big transition, not just for 

1610
01:21:01,580 --> 01:21:04,180
gaming, but also for the film 
industry and film narratives as 

1611
01:21:04,180 --> 01:21:06,180
well. 
Yeah, that franchise took and 

1612
01:21:06,180 --> 01:21:08,340
like you said, I think, but I 
think the combo like, yeah, the 

1613
01:21:08,340 --> 01:21:12,180
game came out just just you know
what year and a half roughly 

1614
01:21:12,180 --> 01:21:15,500
after the after the movie, which
usually doesn't happen. 

1615
01:21:15,500 --> 01:21:18,140
We know that that's part of 
development and the console and 

1616
01:21:18,140 --> 01:21:19,700
like all these types of things, 
but like. 

1617
01:21:20,450 --> 01:21:22,890
You know, they they perfected a 
lot of things. 

1618
01:21:22,890 --> 01:21:26,650
And between the movie doing 
really well and then just enough

1619
01:21:26,650 --> 01:21:28,450
to, I feel like it's just enough
time. 

1620
01:21:28,650 --> 01:21:31,570
Because movies had so much life 
on VHS and stuff at the time 

1621
01:21:31,570 --> 01:21:35,850
that like just when you stopped 
maybe pressing play on the VHS 

1622
01:21:35,850 --> 01:21:40,010
17 * a week, the game came out 
and then you were ready to to 

1623
01:21:40,010 --> 01:21:42,690
play the game. 
And it just sort of like somehow

1624
01:21:42,690 --> 01:21:45,850
that year and a half, whatever, 
18 months, whatever it was, just

1625
01:21:45,850 --> 01:21:48,250
extended the life of everybody 
loving. 

1626
01:21:48,640 --> 01:21:51,840
James Bond and the game, like 
you said, I think played that 

1627
01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:54,560
part for not only the console 
Nintendo, but I think, yeah, for

1628
01:21:54,560 --> 01:21:57,320
the franchise too, for sure. 
Yeah. 

1629
01:21:57,400 --> 01:21:58,880
It's just, it's just one of 
those titles. 

1630
01:21:58,880 --> 01:22:01,880
So once again, Elise, thank you 
very much. 

1631
01:22:01,920 --> 01:22:03,640
I really, really appreciate it. 
Thank you all. 

1632
01:22:03,680 --> 01:22:04,800
I really appreciate it. 
So much fun. 

1633
01:22:04,800 --> 01:22:07,840
Thank you. 
We will hopefully be able to 

1634
01:22:07,840 --> 01:22:12,320
touch base soon and anytime you 
want to talk another crazy N64 

1635
01:22:12,320 --> 01:22:14,560
game, let us know. 
We are. 

1636
01:22:14,560 --> 01:22:17,290
We know where to find us. 
Anytime. 

1637
01:22:17,410 --> 01:22:18,450
Count me in. 
I love. 

1638
01:22:24,250 --> 01:22:27,370
Gigi and I are so very grateful 
that you joined us on this 

1639
01:22:27,370 --> 01:22:29,850
episode of Remember 64. 
And of course. 

1640
01:22:30,370 --> 01:22:33,410
Very, very happy and grateful to
welcome on Elise Nora to 

1641
01:22:33,410 --> 01:22:36,450
Remember 64. 
Be sure to check out the 

1642
01:22:36,450 --> 01:22:41,450
Goldeneye 007 Boss Fight books 
and her book as well on Super 

1643
01:22:41,450 --> 01:22:44,370
Mario Brothers 3. 
All of those are available at 

1644
01:22:44,370 --> 01:22:48,570
bossfightbooks.com. 
There are paper, ebook and 

1645
01:22:48,570 --> 01:22:51,530
hardcover editions of many of 
the books, including these ones.

1646
01:22:51,810 --> 01:22:53,210
All are pretty affordable 
prices. 

1647
01:22:53,210 --> 01:22:54,930
You can check the link in the 
show notes. 

1648
01:22:54,930 --> 01:22:59,130
I will link to the books there 
as well and make sure you check 

1649
01:22:59,130 --> 01:23:00,290
out Giggy's page as well as got 
some. 

1650
01:23:00,370 --> 01:23:03,930
Really cool stuff, including 
some Toy Story videos, digging 

1651
01:23:03,930 --> 01:23:07,490
into some Morden, Donkey Kong 64
and we are going to continue to 

1652
01:23:07,490 --> 01:23:10,370
be doing more things together. 
We're expanding sort of 

1653
01:23:10,610 --> 01:23:13,770
different ideas like streaming 
and playing games together, 

1654
01:23:13,770 --> 01:23:16,330
doing special edition episodes 
that aren't just like this with 

1655
01:23:16,330 --> 01:23:18,810
special guests, but doing 
different kinds of things and 

1656
01:23:18,810 --> 01:23:21,770
different videos and all that. 
So stay tuned at our YouTube 

1657
01:23:21,770 --> 01:23:25,570
page at Remember 64 or at Jiggy.
Look back as well on YouTube. 

1658
01:23:26,320 --> 01:23:28,640
But other than that, I just. 
I really want to say thank you 

1659
01:23:28,640 --> 01:23:31,360
everyone for again for joining 
us on this journey of the show. 

1660
01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:37,120
Your support, whether it's on 
Patreon or not, allows us to dig

1661
01:23:37,120 --> 01:23:39,880
in and do more fun, exciting 
things like this. 

1662
01:23:39,880 --> 01:23:43,680
I really enjoy doing this. 
Whether the game is a home run 

1663
01:23:43,680 --> 01:23:46,160
or not, whether it's Goldeneye 
or whether it's something else, 

1664
01:23:46,160 --> 01:23:48,840
it really doesn't matter. 
Taking this journey with you, 

1665
01:23:48,840 --> 01:23:52,320
with Giggy, with Luigi, with 
people like Elise and all the 

1666
01:23:52,320 --> 01:23:55,520
other amazing guests that we've 
had have been just honestly a 

1667
01:23:55,520 --> 01:23:57,240
joy. 
So thank you everyone for 

1668
01:23:57,240 --> 01:23:59,000
listening. 
Thank you everyone for being a 

1669
01:23:59,000 --> 01:24:01,960
part of the show. 
And of course, thanks again to 

1670
01:24:01,960 --> 01:24:04,720
Elise for being on this episode 
of Goldeneye 007. 

1671
01:24:05,490 --> 01:24:08,890
If you do want to support us to 
help us continue to grow the 

1672
01:24:08,890 --> 01:24:11,690
show, do fun, cool things like 
this and expand on those ideas 

1673
01:24:11,690 --> 01:24:16,050
that I was just talking about. 
patreon.com/remember 64 show as 

1674
01:24:16,050 --> 01:24:19,250
little as a dollar a month. 
Everything helps just like every

1675
01:24:19,250 --> 01:24:22,170
other Patreon out there. 
But I will say we do are doing a

1676
01:24:22,170 --> 01:24:24,090
little bit of a giveaway. 
If you are a new sign up, we 

1677
01:24:24,090 --> 01:24:28,010
have Holographic Remember 64 
stickers available for free to 

1678
01:24:28,010 --> 01:24:30,090
you. 
You can sign up if you feel 

1679
01:24:30,090 --> 01:24:32,050
comfortable giving me your 
address. 

1680
01:24:32,050 --> 01:24:36,090
I will mail those out and get 
them to you as soon as possible.

1681
01:24:36,650 --> 01:24:38,530
All right, everybody, talk to 
you next time. 

1682
01:24:38,530 --> 01:24:58,750
I remember 64. 
Yes.