1 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:15,480 This is an exciting episode for us. 2 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:19,240 We like to talk about your company because we see it online 3 00:00:19,240 --> 00:00:21,360 all the time, right? I'm not, I'm not going to do 4 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:23,760 it's a spoiler alert for those that that know a little bit 5 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:25,360 about marketing that are on Instagram. 6 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:30,200 But I want to give you the opportunity, Matt, to explain, 7 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,040 to own your own narrative, introduce yourself to our 8 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,640 audience, and then we can start to talk about the bottlenecks 9 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,200 that you've been solving and working on across your career. 10 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,640 My name is Matt Paulson. I'm the founder and CEO of O 11 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:47,680 Maze Amaze offers the chance to win once in a lifetime 12 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:52,800 experiences and dream houses and also benefits charity. 13 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:57,040 The origin of the stories. I was a filmmaker before amazed. 14 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:01,040 My passion was using storytelling to inspire action 15 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,879 and I had done a bunch of big projects in that world. 16 00:01:04,879 --> 00:01:07,120 We were the first directors on this thing called Live Earth, 17 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,400 which was the biggest concert ever thrown to raise raise 18 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,400 awareness for climate change was on 7 continents and one night 19 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,680 with everybody from Beyoncé to The Rolling Stones. 20 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,160 We did a documentary series called Go Rising that was funded 21 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,160 by Oprah Queen Ronnie of Jordan. Meryl Streep was a narrator 22 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,440 about girls education, developing world, bunch of big 23 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:28,040 projects like that, Bono and Jay-Z and you know, Bill 24 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,160 Clinton, all that and and then realized we were creating a lot 25 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:33,040 of awareness around those projects, but not a lot of 26 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,520 impact. And I was endemic to the space. 27 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,400 So I went to Business School and tried to surround myself with 28 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,840 people smarter than me. I'd never even opened Excel 29 00:01:42,960 --> 00:01:46,520 before I got to Warden. I was purely on the creative 30 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:48,600 side. And then when I was in school, I 31 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,720 went to this event that Magic Johnson, the basketball player 32 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:53,440 was hosting where he was auctioning off the chance to 33 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,040 play basketball with him and go to a Lakers game. 34 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,520 But it was one of those things is only be able to high net 35 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:00,640 worth individuals sitting in the room. 36 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,480 And we were in the room, but not high net worth individuals. 37 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,520 We are the guys who get invited last minute, didn't come for the 38 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:11,200 free drinks, you know, And so I'm sure you guys been a lot of 39 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:12,800 these rubber chicken dinners before. 40 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,800 And so we watch as the auction went up to $15,000. 41 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:17,880 And Magic was our childhood hero. 42 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,520 But we cannot afford to participate. 43 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:23,600 And so when you're driving home, we said that makes no sense. 44 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:25,880 Magic is fans around the world, not just in that room. 45 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:28,720 This is 2000. 11 Why is that a closed event? 46 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:30,320 Why is it a closed event? Yeah, yeah. 47 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:32,880 And social media was just starting to happen for 48 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:34,240 celebrities. Actually weren't really on 49 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,800 social media then, but we're like, they're going to be and 50 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:38,640 now they're going to be able to reach their fans in a whole new 51 00:02:38,640 --> 00:02:40,640 way. So if we make it so anybody can 52 00:02:40,640 --> 00:02:43,440 donate $10.00 for the chance to win, you could raise so much 53 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,080 more money, so much more awareness, open up a whole new 54 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,040 donor base. So that's how it that's how it 55 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,200 started and. It's amazing because so you 56 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,360 started in the States and you expand to the UK or are you 57 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:54,960 based in the UK now? We are. 58 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,400 We're only in the UK now. Well, UK and Germany now. 59 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:02,240 We're no longer in the States. It's a crazy story of how we 60 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,880 moved from the US to UK, but basically I had a near death 61 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,400 experience and flatlined for 4 1/2 minutes. 62 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,720 They brought me back to life. That changed the trajectory of 63 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,800 the business and our strategy from celebrities to doing 64 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,000 prizes, and then there's a whole story of how we went to the UK 65 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,600 from that. Is, does that come from just 66 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:24,280 like the, the working being an entrepreneur or is that just 67 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,480 like unrelated and just like a, a life experience that's 68 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:29,120 happened? Yeah, yeah. 69 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,480 That was from I was I was supposed to die when I was born. 70 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,680 I was born with my stomach twisted and then and I and the 71 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:40,680 scar tissue from that surgery broke off 40 years later, 72 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:44,240 created a bowel obstruction, led to this crazy series of events 73 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:48,680 where I was flatlining in a hospital room and my mom, who 74 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,200 had gone down to get my brother and sister, had come up and 75 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,800 heard of the loudspeaker code blue and room 437. 76 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,160 And my mom works in a hospital. So she knew that was my. 77 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:00,280 She knew that meant flatline. Wow. 78 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,040 And she knows my room. So she ran down the hall. 79 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:05,880 She got to the door and the nurse said, I'm sorry, you can't 80 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:07,600 come in. This is really serious. 81 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,480 And she said, look, I was there when he came in this world. 82 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:12,200 If he's leaving this world right now, I'm going to be in that 83 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,480 room. So they let her in the room and 84 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,079 it was flat lined on a kind of table like this one in front of 85 00:04:18,079 --> 00:04:20,959 us. And they were doing the the 86 00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:25,920 paddles, the Electro, the defibrillator and and I've. 87 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,520 Always thought that could be a prize, by the way, the chance to 88 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,640 operate a defibrillator. Just to say so, you know, just 89 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,640 one city of life. The ability to go stand there. 90 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:37,160 OK. Bang. 91 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:38,240 OK. I don't. 92 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:39,760 You know, I wouldn't want to do it repeatedly. 93 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,000 So that is a terrible suggestion. 94 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,600 No, no, no. It's a completely different 95 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:48,240 space. Yeah. 96 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:49,360 Yeah, Yeah. Sorry. 97 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:51,000 Sorry. That is hilarious. 98 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,800 Is it welcome to the podcast. There's things that everybody 99 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:55,280 should do once. I've always thought that you 100 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,840 couldn't have tube trainer drivers because everybody would 101 00:04:58,840 --> 00:05:01,360 love to drive a tube train for a day, wouldn't they? 102 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,720 OK, so you could actually just make that an auction off prize, 103 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,960 drive a tube train for a day. Eventually you could get rid of. 104 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,320 I think there would be safety implications and training. 105 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:11,880 Implications, of course. Yeah. 106 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:17,840 I mean, everyone could be a pilot for a day. 107 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:23,160 Oh God. Oh, the emotional roller coaster 108 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:24,640 I've just gone through. Sorry, sorry. 109 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,800 That is Oh my God, that's funny. I did not even. 110 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:32,880 I didn't see that coming. Sorry, that's not an eye. 111 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:38,200 Yeah, but everybody who's watched the ER has a small 112 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,280 fantasy about operating those paddles. 113 00:05:40,280 --> 00:05:42,240 Yeah. Yeah, I would agree with that. 114 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,600 Yeah. Where do you pick up the 115 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:50,200 sunshine? Up to the near death anyway? 116 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,200 So basically my mom basically saved me. 117 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,240 Here's what happened. She like she when they, she saw 118 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:01,280 me, she saw me with the defibrillator, the prize. 119 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:05,760 And she said, can I do this? No, But they, she, she, you 120 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:09,720 know, started to crumble. And then basically she looked 121 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:14,720 outside and she saw all these nurses and staff members and 122 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,760 doctors had gravitated outside the window of the ICU. 123 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,800 And there was like 40 of them just looking in, sending this 124 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:26,880 positive energy to her son, like sending love to her, the son 125 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,080 that they didn't even know. And she was so moved by these 126 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,240 people that it was like a spiritual transformation for 127 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,840 her. And she instead of starting to 128 00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:37,960 crumble, she gathered her strength and she started like 129 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,240 basically talking shit to me was like Matthew, David Poles. 130 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:41,920 And these people are fighting to save your life. 131 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,480 They're fighting so hard to bring you back and you're not 132 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,240 fighting hard enough. And basically because she 133 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,520 fought, they kept fighting. And I fought like 4 1/2 minutes, 134 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:49,520 but I don't usually go that long. 135 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,240 But because she had fought, they kept fighting. 136 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,280 And then at one point, basically the, the main doctor kind of 137 00:06:56,280 --> 00:06:58,600 like shook his head to say, this is done, this is going on too 138 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:00,080 long. And my mom grabbed him and said, 139 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,480 please don't call it yet. And then he turned back and he 140 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:05,440 said, wait a second. And then they said they saw 141 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,000 something never seen before in a hospital instead of the flat 142 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,480 line just going along and then like, maybe tip taking up, it 143 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:13,680 was just going along and all this the nice popped up. 144 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,680 Yeah. And I kind of gave like, like I 145 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:20,400 remember looking and seeing all the people looking for the 146 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:23,000 window and then I saw my mom and it came kind of give a thumbs 147 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:23,960 up. Yeah. 148 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,840 Yeah, but that she. Was presumably worried they've 149 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:28,960 been lasting damage. Well, yeah, I was supposed to, 150 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:30,200 yeah. When I left the hospital, the 151 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,400 doctor was like when I finished my career 30 years from now. 152 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,320 And I'm talking about the most extraordinary case I've ever 153 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:37,280 seen. This is going to be it. 154 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:39,920 We thought we had you had zero percent chance of survival. 155 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,600 And so the fact we have you going home with full faculties, 156 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,920 we have no medical explanation. Yeah, God. 157 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,480 So that changed after that. I did woke me up to a lot of 158 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:50,720 things. And that's when the business 159 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:54,240 changed. OK, so so Amaze has already 160 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,760 started, but it was in the US. It was in the US just doing 161 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:57,800 celebrities. OK. 162 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:01,640 And then you decided to change and go to the UK because usually 163 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,520 the reason why I ask is I speak to so many entrepreneurs and 164 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:08,200 everyone and leaving the UK and Europe and wanting to go to the 165 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,480 US and wanting to go to different spaces, right? 166 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:14,160 So it's very, I'm very curious because you don't often see 167 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,600 people going from that side of the world coming to this side. 168 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,640 So that's why I also wanted to obviously the near death 169 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:22,840 experience and the business changing. 170 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,840 So it will be really interesting to understand obviously from a 171 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,360 personal perspective, but also from a business side, why you 172 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:30,280 felt that it was the right move. Yeah, it was. 173 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:32,600 Yeah, it was a very unpopular decision. 174 00:08:34,919 --> 00:08:36,280 It was really simple, though, actually. 175 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:40,080 We had done just celebrity experiences until that point. 176 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,440 The stuff like riding a tank with Arnold Schwarzenegger and 177 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:45,920 crush things or when a Lamborghini where Pope Francis 178 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:47,560 hand you the keys like. Crazy stuff. 179 00:08:47,560 --> 00:08:50,280 We're going to get into that. So we had, we had just done that 180 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,120 stuff. And then after the experience, I 181 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,840 was like, we're never going to be truly world changing if we 182 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,680 only do celebrity experiences and you just become hyper aware 183 00:08:57,680 --> 00:08:58,800 of how short your time is. It's. 184 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,640 A finite supply and yeah. Exactly, yeah. 185 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,280 And and stepping, I was out of the business for multiple months 186 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,000 as I was recovering, you know, and so you just you get 187 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:09,320 perspective you didn't have otherwise. 188 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,120 Like when you're in a day in, day out, it's really hard to 189 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,640 step back and say, hey, this might not work long over time. 190 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,720 And so, and we had done a campaign with Daniel Craig where 191 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:18,760 you got to go to New York, you got to go to the Aston Martin 192 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,520 track, you got to ride around in a one-of-a-kind Aston Martin, 193 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:23,520 and you got to keep Pastor Martin. 194 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:24,800 And that was the first prize we had. 195 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:26,440 Done. Basically Mr. Beast before Mr. 196 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,960 Beast, Yeah, he, that's a brilliant, that's brilliant. 197 00:09:29,680 --> 00:09:32,240 Yeah, yeah. I mean, not the story. 198 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,280 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is an extraordinarily 199 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:39,720 interesting question, isn't it? The whole Mr. Beast, in other 200 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,800 words, amazing things that now scale. 201 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,320 Yeah. It is an extraordinary idea. 202 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:46,720 Yeah. It's brilliant, Brilliant 203 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:47,320 insight. Yeah. 204 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,680 They always say that the reason why Mr. Beast does very well or 205 00:09:50,680 --> 00:09:53,840 the brands that do the best are those that do what people 206 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:55,160 believe the government should be doing. 207 00:09:55,560 --> 00:09:58,720 So it's like, oh wow. So, so actually a sound strategy 208 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,720 is for the community that I want to serve. 209 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,360 What does everybody expect the government to do? 210 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:06,160 And why don't we do it as a brand, right? 211 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,400 And then that's how you actually get people to, to, to, to 212 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,200 galvanized and come around the brand because they're doing 213 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,960 things that the, the, the, the powers that be should be doing. 214 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:17,520 So what is he doing that the government should? 215 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,360 Be so basically like going to Africa and Building Schools and 216 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,480 building well, so everyone's like, well, the world leader 217 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,280 should be doing this yes, like and Mr. Beast, the YouTube is 218 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,360 doing it and that's the you couldn't. 219 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:28,920 Predict it. Couldn't you, as a good 220 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,160 economist, that there would be a Mr. Beast? 221 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:33,840 Yeah. In other words, the per, you 222 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,200 know, in other words, you know, so it's a winner takes all idea 223 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,680 to some extent, isn't it? Because the person with the most 224 00:10:38,680 --> 00:10:41,600 money can do the most remarkable things which will attract the 225 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,080 largest audience. And so you could have 226 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,880 effectively predicted the emergence of Mr. Beast. 227 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,880 There's a really interesting idea by the way, which is 228 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:56,040 invented by an economist called Matt Tabarock, which is it's 229 00:10:56,040 --> 00:11:00,520 called a dominant assurance contract and it's a way of 230 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:06,680 getting people to effectively engage in communal activities 231 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,600 without a free rider problem. The idea would be if you had a 232 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,040 community which wanted a footbridge across the local 233 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,800 motorway, OK, the problem would be that you could ask everybody 234 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:17,800 to donate 5 lbs to the footbridge. 235 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,560 But then of course there'd be free riders, people who wouldn't 236 00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:23,400 give £5 because they were relying on everybody else to pay 237 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,480 for the footbridge. And the dominant assurance 238 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:31,280 contract works, which I think is that an entrepreneur commits to 239 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:35,280 build the footprint, then sets out to raise money from lots of 240 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,360 individuals. And the deal is they have the 241 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,640 risk, which is if they're, if it's underfunded, they take the 242 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,800 loss, if it's overfunded, they keep the game. 243 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,520 And it's actually a very interesting solution to kind of 244 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:50,480 coordination problems. I always thought, you know, I 245 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,800 always thought it's an idea that the, in a sense it was made for 246 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,280 the Internet in a way. And so there's, I mean, there's 247 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,240 an interesting possibility that you could do, you could extend a 248 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,840 maze to community projects. So we're doing it. 249 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,880 We're doing it. We're building a full hospital 250 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:07,760 wing at Great Ormond St. Hospital, right down the street. 251 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:09,640 Whoa. Yeah, yeah. 252 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,080 Oh, this is incredible. Yeah, we fund the London Air 253 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,240 Ambulances, those helicopters like we fund. 254 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,720 We fund those, yeah. But here's the thing to the Mr. 255 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,920 Beast effect is he's just the one That story told it the best. 256 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,560 Well, I think so we, it's actually, it's painful to listen 257 00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:26,520 to as you understand, because it's probably true, because we 258 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,400 know he came after us and we know we saw like footage of him 259 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:31,440 with like go Maze stuff on there, like vision boards and 260 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:33,160 stuff. But he did a better job of 261 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:35,800 storytelling it. And maybe Mr. Beast is a better 262 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,400 brand or whatever it is. Like he's, what he's built that 263 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,880 into is is probably a space where we probably could have 264 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:43,320 gone. You know, it's a good lesson to 265 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:44,840 learn. But but you can still do it. 266 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,000 Oh, yeah, absolutely. Like Steve Jobs always says, 267 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,080 there's no one more powerful than a storyteller, right? 268 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:50,760 Yes. And The funny thing is there's a 269 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:52,680 lot of organizations that do a lot of things. 270 00:12:52,680 --> 00:12:55,920 But how you story tell in a way that people actually like, can 271 00:12:55,920 --> 00:13:00,600 grasp on to understand and actually see the the the value 272 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,840 that you're providing. I think I always tell people, 273 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,520 whenever you're doing something, yes, you should do the right 274 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,160 thing, but you should also think, OK, how do people that 275 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,040 are not involved this this in this thing, find out about the 276 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:14,560 good work that we're doing so that he creates that compound 277 00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:16,040 effect that other people want to do it too. 278 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,360 That's what Mr. B starts. So I know that a lot of people 279 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:22,040 are talking about creators and the fact that actually, if you 280 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:24,040 do care about the good, then you're not going to tell 281 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,560 everybody, but actually, how do more how do you encourage more 282 00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:28,200 people to do the same thing? Right. 283 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,200 So by by them having and, and I know you talked about the fact 284 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,840 that initially people want the house, but then the fact that 285 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,240 they're also doing yeah, is also a great thing, right? 286 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,000 But. We teach storytelling classes to 287 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,320 everybody out of maze, even accountants. 288 00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:44,600 Like everyone has to just take a a full half day storytelling 289 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:46,440 workshop. Interesting. 290 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,920 Very, very shrewd, yeah. Because all storytelling is the 291 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,080 most powerful, probably the most underrated skill in 292 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:55,320 entrepreneurship, right? It's because it's not just 293 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,040 marketing, it's not just product, it's also fundraising. 294 00:13:58,040 --> 00:13:59,880 It's setting a vision, it's hiring. 295 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:05,000 And if you think about really, all social change starts with 296 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:06,720 the story. Yeah, just even amaze. 297 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:08,720 What's amazed next year is just a story. 298 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,080 Projection forward of a new possibility. 299 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,760 Absolutely. I've always wondered whether one 300 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,320 of the the United States just seems to have an advantage in it 301 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:20,440 in that if you watch, for example, whether it's The 302 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,560 Apprentice or Shark Tank or, you know, Dragons Den, as we call it 303 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,160 here. One of the most painful things 304 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:30,800 in the UK variant sometimes is people who patently have a very 305 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,320 good idea but have no clue how to wrap it up in a story. 306 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:36,640 And there are various debates about why that is. 307 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:40,000 Is it because American schools have show and tell that, you 308 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,040 know, from quite a young age you're encouraged to basically 309 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,160 stand up and give an account of something? 310 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,320 We've we've always debated that. Well, I mean, I think I would 311 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,840 say the UK like punches way above its weight class in terms 312 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,240 of like creative output, storytelling, writing. 313 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,880 But in America, you're taught believing that transformation is 314 00:14:57,880 --> 00:14:59,560 possible. Yes, right. 315 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,320 And it is, it has geographic advantages in that, right. 316 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,680 It was founded by people that transformed their lives. 317 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,600 You have to be an insane optimist to make that journey in 318 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:09,960 the 1st. Place, but it's it's, but we're 319 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,800 also like, we are, you know, life, liberty, the pursuit of 320 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:15,560 happiness. It's this individual expression 321 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,600 of change. Yeah, I this is really. 322 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:22,200 Sometimes I think it's unkind in the sense that, well, no, the 323 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,920 narrative that you are the author of your own success and 324 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:29,320 anybody can be anything is, I think, a deeply unkind narrative 325 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,560 to people who are unlucky. On the other hand, it has net 326 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,760 positive effects, I think, because the percentage of people 327 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,360 who at least try is that little bit higher. 328 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,680 Yeah, I think, I think it is definitely net positive economic 329 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:42,960 effects. I don't know if it has net 330 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,320 positive overall societal happiness. 331 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:46,080 Interesting. Question. 332 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,280 Which is because being here has changed my perspective on that a 333 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:52,440 little bit, you know, because like, I mean community. 334 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,920 At the end of the day, what really brings happiness to joy 335 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:56,920 is a sense of connection. We all want to feel a sense of 336 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,400 belonging. In America, though, you you work 337 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:01,560 so hard to belong by being better than everyone else. 338 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,240 I always talk about like, if you confuse like. 339 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,960 So if you have to boil it down, I think audacity is a word that 340 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,520 you can use to, to have the the audacity to dream and believe it 341 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:16,200 can be something bigger than yourself. 342 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:20,880 And I always say that if you confuse American audacity or 343 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:24,240 American pace with European taste, right? 344 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,080 I always say that that fusion works really great. 345 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,840 Because I think that a lot of the times when I speak to my 346 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,880 friends that are in the UK, in France, they know everything. 347 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,760 Like you can speak to them about what's happening in crypto, 348 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:38,320 what's happening in the stock market. 349 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,480 They know it theoretically, but then you ask them, have you done 350 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:43,400 something with that? And a lot of the times they're 351 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:44,960 like, no, they don't want to take the risk. 352 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,760 Whereas I have my American friends that'll be like, oh, I 353 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:49,480 heard about this thing. I'm going to try it, right? 354 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,440 I'm going to try it. So if you have the ability to to 355 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:53,880 to, I think. That's where the length of 356 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,080 history isn't on their side, you know, because they build up a 357 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,400 series of patterns and historical context where they 358 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,400 like just. I can't. 359 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,720 Though I can't do that or I can't rise up this class system 360 00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:08,079 where our ignorance is a little bit helpful in America, you 361 00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:09,599 know? But also like the end of the 362 00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:11,800 day, geography is really powerful and like we are the 363 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,920 land of milk and honey with like 10X more navigable waterways 364 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,560 than any other country, which like is 90% less effective or is 365 00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:20,960 more cost effective. So you have like some also 366 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,040 systemic things in there that make this mindset a little 367 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,359 easier. You know, Australia like is the 368 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,960 same size country, but like in order to survive in that 369 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,200 country, you have to work with your neighbor to do it. 370 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:33,920 Like it's not the land of milk and honey, right? 371 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,040 So you can't just be this entrepreneurial person going out 372 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,440 to create your fortune to the West because you're going to die 373 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,840 on the way where in the US like you can. 374 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,600 So there's some, there's some of that that perpetuates it a 375 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:44,640 little bit too. So. 376 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,000 So you talked about the fact it was an unpopular decision coming 377 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:49,880 over. So, so walk us through that. 378 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:53,200 So you come from the land of milk and honey, right? 379 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,720 Right. And you decide to come to to the 380 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,400 UK. And so how was that like? 381 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:01,440 Like, why did it make business sense to you? 382 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,160 Because I know that a lot of the times in the entrepreneurial 383 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,560 space, everyone has an opinion. But when you have the 384 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,360 conviction, when you see something, you know that's the 385 00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:12,880 right move to take. So So what is the thing that you 386 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:18,080 saw that made you want to make the move beyond the the the the 387 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,080 life experience change? Yeah, it was. 388 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,560 It was really pure, purely business oriented. 389 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,560 What happened was after that, after I came back from the near 390 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:28,320 death experience, we did the Daniel Craig thing. 391 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,840 We said, OK, let's start doing prizes that we control rather 392 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,440 than relying on talent. And so we started doing holidays 393 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,400 and those worked well and that kind of flywheeled and then we 394 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,600 started doing cars and that worked well and we said, OK, you 395 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:41,640 know, what's really at is houses. 396 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,960 A car changes someone's lifestyle, house changes 397 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,200 someone's life. And it's all of Maslow's 398 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,640 hierarchy of needs in one image, right? 399 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:53,000 Safety, security, status, relationship, self realization. 400 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,680 And so we said that where we can get the, the transformation of 401 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,400 like what a lottery does, but with the storytelling and impact 402 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,200 and salt like sense of like beauty that you didn't have and 403 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,400 that hadn't been done. And we launched that in the UK 404 00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:10,320 because of smaller country, less expensive houses. 405 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,440 We thought all the houses would be more relevant to people. 406 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,200 We weren't sure how to do it regionally in the US and we had 407 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,080 a good business going with the celebrities in the cars and we 408 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:18,560 didn't want to kind of mess that up. 409 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,240 So we said if it's just houses in the UKA subscription, that 410 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,920 could be really powerful. And then we launched it here 411 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,280 while we're still in the US and it just like took off. 412 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,440 I mean, it was like a rocket. And, you know, like, similar 413 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,360 like to Netflix or Airbnb or Amazon. 414 00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:36,520 Even in their early years, it was really, really fast growth. 415 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,680 And it was so extraordinary. They were like, OK, we should 416 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,040 just be doing houses. Like we had 25 people doing it 417 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,720 here, 200 people in the US doing the other thing. 418 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,040 They're about the same sales run rate after like 18 months. 419 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:49,400 Wow. Yeah, it was crazy. 420 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,440 And so I was like, OK, clearly we should just be doing houses. 421 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,040 And then the question was, all right, should we be doing that 422 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,120 in both markets or just focus on the UK? 423 00:19:57,120 --> 00:19:59,600 And everyone's like you obviously do it in both markets, 424 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,120 do it in the US. But what they underestimated, I 425 00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:05,600 thought was 21 is just like we have to buy 8 houses out in 426 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,000 front in order to do a house every single month, we have to 427 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,760 build and design those. So it's a lot of, it's a lot of 428 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,520 capital. We had probably like just enough 429 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,760 to do in both markets. But what doesn't show up on the 430 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,880 spreadsheets is the emotional cost that we would have to go 431 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,280 from 200 people down to 20 people in the US. 432 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,080 There's no reason to have so many more people doing this 433 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:27,640 thing that didn't require the same amount. 434 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,320 And the emotional toll of all these amazing people that have 435 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:34,440 been together for a decade. And then just thinking, oh, you 436 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,480 know, our investors, like, just take the best 20 people and 437 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:37,800 restart. And it's like, that's not how 438 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,360 people work. And like that's, you know, so a 439 00:20:40,360 --> 00:20:44,600 fresh start plus like focuses the price of greatness. 440 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,240 And if we focus on this market and we get this big, then we can 441 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:49,600 come back to the US much stronger. 442 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:53,320 So that was a decision I made. I was very like, I was heavily 443 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,400 criticized for it for the reasons you discussed. 444 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:57,640 The board thought like that's crazy. 445 00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,600 You're leaving the biggest market to go to that market. 446 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,160 But that was, you know, that was the decision we made. 447 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,880 So much so that I thought that makes was the British brand. 448 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,880 Yeah, some ways it is now like you know more majority of our 449 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,120 brand is just an expression of your culture, right. 450 00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:15,320 The culture is just an expression of what people do on 451 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,760 day in, day out. And the majority of people that 452 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:19,920 work at the company are now British. 453 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:21,880 So like it's kind of so there is an. 454 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,520 Interesting question about an idea which which is to what 455 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,040 extent does it scale? I mean, I've always thought that 456 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:32,040 to some extent US lotteries are slightly insane because the 457 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,320 amount you win, you know, and some of those very large 458 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,560 lotteries is so insanely disproportionate. 459 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:42,560 OK, so winning a house seems to be about right in terms of 460 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,640 changing someone's life absolutely permanently. 461 00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:49,680 One hopes for the better, although you can never predict, 462 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,520 of course, for those wins. Winning $200 million when you've 463 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,200 been living in a trailer park strikes me, is actually 464 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,320 something which is, you know, almost problematic. 465 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,800 But also in terms of the geography, I can see Amaze 466 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:02,960 working really well in smaller countries. 467 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:04,920 You know, you it could work in Ireland, it could work in 468 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,760 Denmark, I think maybe in the US if you live in New York, winning 469 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,240 a house in Arizona. Yeah, we would do. 470 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,680 Weirdly, you did do it regionally. 471 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:15,720 We would do it regionally, yeah. Yeah. 472 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:17,040 Yeah. But your point around the 473 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,880 jackpot's really interesting because people can't really 474 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,320 conceptualize 200 million. No, right. 475 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:25,920 Like that's kind of why this works. 476 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,800 If you think about like if you were driving home on the A-40 477 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:35,000 and you saw an advertisement for a lottery for £8,000,000, it's 478 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,080 probably just a billboard that you said £8,000,000. 479 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:38,960 You probably wouldn't catch your attention because you've seen 480 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:40,840 the EuroMillions for 100 million or whatever. 481 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,040 Yeah, yeah, yeah. But if you've seen £8,000,000 482 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:44,920 house in Cornwall. Oh yeah, yeah. 483 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:46,600 That would capture your attention. 484 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:48,560 Absolutely, right? Because when you think about 485 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,360 winning the lottery, what's the first thing that you dream 486 00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:52,360 about? Buying a house. 487 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,000 Buying a house, yeah. So you're kind of shortcutting 488 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,240 that. You're taking all the calories 489 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,640 out of the processing for people and then that's why like it has 490 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,480 the same emotion of the of the big cash without like all the 491 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,120 fixed costs of doing that. And did you guys just go like, 492 00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:10,960 did you go straight into it? You bought the 8 houses or did 493 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,240 you test one first? Like when you did make the step 494 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:15,760 into the UK market and go into housing? 495 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,200 Because as you mentioned, it's a massive investment upfront, 496 00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:20,200 right? Did you just go and make the bet 497 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,840 and say, oh, did you guys do some research on like what did 498 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,200 people actually need going back to the months hierarchy? 499 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,560 So what made you take that first step? 500 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,200 We we started very slow. It started with a £1,000,000 501 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,640 house in Cheshire. Yeah, I can never say that. 502 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,680 Right. But I think but like, but I 503 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:37,000 think I remember this. Yeah. 504 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:38,440 Got quite a lot of press coverage. 505 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,400 It did, yeah. It was actually an old house, 506 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:41,600 wasn't it? It wasn't a new build. 507 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:43,120 I remember this. I think I entered that. 508 00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:44,080 Did you? Yeah, Yeah. 509 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,560 And there was this amazing story where the the guy who won was 510 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:53,560 this guy named Ian Garrick out of Lincolnshire. 511 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,200 And he had lost his wife to cancer. 512 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,760 So he entered because it was for Teenage Cancer Trust, but his 513 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,800 wife had also passed in the house that his two sons lived in 514 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,440 and he wanted. And so he did it and then he 515 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:05,640 won. And when he found out he won, it 516 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,120 was just like amazing emotional story and that kind of like that 517 00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:12,160 just set us off a little bit. And then we went from a 518 00:24:12,360 --> 00:24:15,640 £2,000,000 every house every three months to a 3,000,000 519 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,360 every two. And now we're doing, you know, 5 520 00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:19,280 million every month. And you talked about 521 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,960 subscription, yeah, which is really interesting. 522 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:26,920 So are people liking the fact that they don't have to bother 523 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,280 with like keeping, like they don't forget, they don't miss 524 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,640 out. And always the intangibles that 525 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,360 are associated with being like a subscribed member, they're like, 526 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,040 walk me through the business model of being a subscription 527 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:39,480 instead of just being like a one off. 528 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,080 We're on and then we're not on. Yeah. 529 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,080 We do both. We make it so you can, you can 530 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:47,960 choose either subscription or come whenever you want. 70% of 531 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:52,400 the business is subscription. Wow and what you get for that is 532 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,680 you get additional entries for being subscriber versus the per 533 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,680 per pound. You get a chance to win what's 534 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:01,960 called monthly millionaires. So there's also a million like 535 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:03,800 we also make someone a millionaire every month in 536 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,280 addition to the house. There's other kind of benefits 537 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,080 of that. We're getting even more out roll 538 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,560 out more rewards for subscribers in the future where you 539 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,280 eventually feel like your subscription is free, you know, 540 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,680 and then and so that's why you get it. 541 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,600 Some people like the feeling of the autonomy of choosing. 542 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,720 I don't want the, I don't want the, you know, Cotswolds house. 543 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,640 I only want the Lake District house. 544 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,920 Yeah, but but yeah, but that's why. 545 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,680 But then there's also the convenience of just like it's a 546 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:32,200 reason to dream every single month. 547 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,520 But but, but when I talked about the fact that this feels a lot 548 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,960 like Mr. Beast, I think a lot of the times people think there has 549 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,600 to be somebody yelling in front of a camera, but this is 550 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,840 effectively Mr. Beast but without a face. 551 00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:46,520 Right. Yeah, which may be why Mr. Beast 552 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,680 is is one more known, you know. No, but, but I think that if you 553 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,560 make the people, people that win the heroes, I think that's 554 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,920 actually like a much more sounder strategy because you 555 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:58,320 don't have to have a face, right? 556 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,240 I think that a lot of the times people have a face because the 557 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,600 brand itself cannot take the role of a human. 558 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,520 But I think that if the brand is acting like a human and this 559 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,560 becomes a platform for great human experiences, I think that 560 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,320 you just make the people that you are impacting the heroes. 561 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,680 Actually, 100% one of our tenants, our storytelling 562 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,920 tenants is make the customer the hero. 563 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,000 Yeah, we are the guide. Yeah, yeah, right. 564 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:24,320 And and and too many companies make themselves the hero, right. 565 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,240 That's why title lost and Spotify won. 566 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,400 Like they made those videos are all about Jay-Z and Beyoncé and 567 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,880 their plight. You know, it's like no one 568 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,280 wanted to see that like. And so yeah, we you're right. 569 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,120 If we, we really do work to make the customer the hero in 570 00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:40,320 everything that we do. By the way, it's a very 571 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,400 interesting do you get economists come and approach you 572 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,200 and ask to research, for example, the effect on the 573 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,320 winners? Do you ever get? 574 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:49,880 No, we haven't. You must get television 575 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:51,320 companies approaching you all the time. 576 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,120 I was going to say Channel 4 must be on the phone more or 577 00:26:54,120 --> 00:26:56,720 less continually going. Please can we film a winner? 578 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:58,760 Yes. Have you gone for that yet? 579 00:26:58,760 --> 00:26:59,800 Or we. Haven't yet. 580 00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:02,280 Not because we don't think it's good storytelling, because it is 581 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,320 a classic hero's journey every month, right? 582 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:09,440 Yes, it's every everybody, every customer wants a brand to help 583 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,640 them participate in their transformation, right? 584 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,200 Like it's essentially what almost every consumer brand is 585 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,040 selling, right? Put this rubber and leather on 586 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:22,320 your feet and become an athlete. Put this piece of metal around 587 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,320 your your wrist to become a Princess. 588 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,560 You know, like that's what most. So, yeah, a lot of people want 589 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,760 stories of transformation, so they come to us about it. 590 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:31,080 We we think we will do it one day. 591 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,920 We just want to do it on our own terms, probably on our own 592 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,040 distribution. But yeah, we think that's a big 593 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:38,840 opportunity. And that's really interesting. 594 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:44,760 I always say that it's funny how the brands that do the most for 595 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,960 you are usually the the worst at storytelling and you guys are 596 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,760 great at storytelling, but I've seen that they're usually, I did 597 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,360 a tour called Sexy Brands and Unsexy Industries. 598 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,360 And, and typically the Unsexy Industries are the ones that 599 00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:00,720 actually are the most useful for you. 600 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,280 Just like food, like the food that you don't like, typically 601 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,440 that you like, that's great for you. 602 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,640 But usually the sexy brands are the ones that have to 603 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,040 overcompensate for the fact that they don't have any inherent 604 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:12,760 value and they have psychological value. 605 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,120 Yeah, or survival. Value. 606 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,160 So survival value, right? So when you're saying buy this 607 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:22,120 bag for 1000 lbs versus a typical bag for £100, that bag 608 00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:24,720 probably cost the same to make. You're just adding storytelling 609 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,160 value on top of it to justify the fact that you. 610 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,360 Have well, the survival value there is your status. 611 00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:32,040 Yes, yes. I have now higher status as a 612 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,720 result of having this bag so that when the group moves on, 613 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,440 I'm not going to be left behind and beaten by the Sabre tooth 614 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,000 tiger. Yeah, that's really, I mean, 615 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,120 that's still our neurology. No, it is. 616 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:41,920 Absolutely. Yeah. 617 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:46,160 I mean, we, we'll store well. Well, you know who wrote the 618 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,040 status game? I understand that. 619 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,080 It's fantastic. Very, very good. 620 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,320 But slightly depressing because you realise when reading it how 621 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,760 much of your motivation is really reputational. 622 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,560 Yeah. And that humans, in a way, the 623 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,560 argument is it's a good thing because humans are a prestige 624 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,800 culture, not a dominance culture. 625 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:08,920 Yeah. And so a lot of primates, a lot, 626 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:10,600 you know, effectively a lot of chimps. 627 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,520 Whatever you talking about that where like you wouldn't wear a 628 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,960 luxury brand into your pub where you grew. 629 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:16,120 Up. No, no, because it's very what? 630 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:17,520 The Hell's wrong? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 631 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,880 If I was so massive or she knows some back in the pub, what the 632 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,760 hell, Everybody knows who you are. 633 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,160 But, and there was some wonderful, there was some 634 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,600 wonderful findings which showed that you you get very high 635 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:34,240 status competition when you get an excess of males and also 636 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:35,960 people are strangers to each other. 637 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:37,800 So they have the chance to reinvent themselves. 638 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,200 So oil, the oil industry, of course, somewhere like Dallas 639 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,400 was absolutely sort of status seeking central because the oil 640 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,200 industry brings in disproportionate numbers of men 641 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,680 who are all effectively starting afresh. 642 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,960 So whereas, so the I think there was a fantastic paper which 643 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,520 explained effectively why Neiman Marcus launched in Dallas, not 644 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,600 in Boston, because in Boston it was where you went to school. 645 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,080 Yeah. It was all that sort of stuff. 646 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,320 People knew who you were. Whereas of course people went to 647 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,960 Dallas and effectively you were reinventing yourself from 648 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,680 scratch. And. 649 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,280 And of course those things mattered much more than the 650 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,200 famously American Express had that Do You Know Me campaign 651 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,120 back in the 1960s, which was really, I suppose, the anxiety 652 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:23,160 of people who are quite a big fish in Peoria, IL. 653 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,760 But when they went to a city 300 miles away, no one knew them 654 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,400 from Adam and they needed to kind of assert some sort of 655 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,160 status or prestige when you travel. 656 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,920 That's how well that that. Probably goes my airports are 657 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,680 probably full of luxury goods when you think about it, because 658 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,480 I'm going to a place with a load of strangers. 659 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,240 So suddenly I need a pair of sunglasses with machino in 2 660 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,000 inch high letters. I'm not really not a sponsor. 661 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:48,280 Yeah. Yeah. 662 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,280 No, no, no, no, no, no. I was using it as a very, very, 663 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,480 you know, a very, very out there, unapologetic luxury 664 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:57,680 goods. Do you know what I see a lot 665 00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,880 though? I see a lot of like people 666 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:03,320 buying gifts for their partners, like last minute gifts as well. 667 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,120 So I think that there's a, there's a little bit of that, 668 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,640 but there's also a little bit of, oh, I need to get my my 669 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,800 partner something as I come back home. 670 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,480 So I see a lot of people like gift buying or people on the 671 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,280 phone to their partner saying, is this what you're looking for? 672 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:16,880 So, so I think there's a lot of that. 673 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,000 Happening they're very strange and then I mean the whole 674 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,680 airport retail thing I I asked the people at Toblerone you know 675 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,360 what is it about flying that makes people suddenly discover 676 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,320 the need to buy, you know, a toothless A Toblerone the size 677 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,280 of a baby's arm or a giant super chips. 678 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,000 What what's going on there? You know, they're not really 679 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,400 naturally connected and they, they seem to think it was 680 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,680 funnily enough just as kind of a snowball effect, which is they 681 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,640 happened to be in airports early and therefore they had an 682 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,080 unusual dominance of airport retail. 683 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:54,280 And it's just effectively been self perpetuating since then. 684 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,960 Part of it is also people are just like looking for permission 685 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,440 to justify an unusual action, right? 686 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:02,520 Like my? Girlfriend is the healthiest. 687 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,640 Person in the world, but on the airplane cheats terribly. 688 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,120 And it's like, well, I'm on an airplane, Yeah. 689 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,200 The usual rules. It's like people who drink at 690 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,120 8:00 in the morning because I'm in an airport. 691 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,400 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm in an. 692 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,960 Airport, yeah, the amount of like pre noon drinking that goes 693 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,440 on an airport is shocking. You know, you're like, there's 694 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,880 people like in suits. Very interesting thing by the 695 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:29,440 way, which is I think the question of course arises, which 696 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,760 is whether gambling or you know, or games of chance are rational. 697 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,880 And I think these games of chance are rational because if 698 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:43,360 you say actually X wouldn't change my life that much, but 5X 699 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,960 would really change my life. So I'll, I'll tell you a funny 700 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,280 story about this, which is back in about 1994. 701 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:51,920 Very good. Still do have a very good friend 702 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,960 called Tal Adams, who's kind of like a semi professional poker 703 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,840 player. And we were going to have a 704 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:03,880 Christmas party and the budget was cut by half. 705 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:06,560 So we said, well, there's not really that much point in just 706 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,120 having a rubbish party where we all go to the pub. 707 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,680 And my suggestion, which I never got permission for, was why 708 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,720 don't we take the now halved budget of 15,000 towels to the 709 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:21,080 casino, put it on red right. If we win, we go out and have a 710 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,320 fantastic party, OK, as we planned. 711 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,520 If not, yes, we've lost £15,000. We'll all go to the pub at our 712 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:29,800 own expense. But we can also tell our friends 713 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,000 for the rest of our lives about the time we lost 15 grand on a 714 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,000 single spin of a roulette wheel, and we all thought that was a 715 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,640 completely sensible thing to do, but we couldn't get anybody else 716 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,160 to agree. With me and my Me and my good 717 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,800 friends from LA used to do this. We called it Denny Wolinski and 718 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,680 we would go to Vegas all dressed up in suits when we were like 719 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,320 20-3 years old and had no money. We'd pull all of our money. 720 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,400 Yep. And we'd put it on the roulette 721 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,600 table or sorry, we put on craps. And if we and if we hit, then we 722 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,480 went to Smith and Wolinski's for dinner and got. 723 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,520 Amazing things. And if we didn't hit, we went to 724 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:01,720 Denny's. Brilliant. 725 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,920 Yeah, actually, I think that's, you know, that's total, actually 726 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,680 sensible, Yeah, as an approach to say, you know, certain things 727 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:08,800 in life. Creates memories. 728 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:10,679 Yeah, right. And you can talk about it on the 729 00:34:10,679 --> 00:34:11,840 podcast. There you go. 730 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:13,120 Yeah, I've never talked about it. 731 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,199 Yeah. But but The funny thing there is 732 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:20,120 obviously if a lot of people, because you talked about the 733 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:24,440 fact that also that the danger of making the the customer, the 734 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,719 audience, the hero is also about like privacy. 735 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:27,920 There's all these different things in there. 736 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,920 And also I guess when usually when somebody loses, you would 737 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,960 think that the national reaction just like you saw in the Oscars 738 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,840 for everybody to clap for them. But sometimes you also get like 739 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,480 negativity. People are like, well, how did 740 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,040 you pick winners, et cetera, et cetera. 741 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,280 So walk me through like how you guys actually, you guys have a 742 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,159 massive job of selecting somebody to win, right? 743 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,520 There's a lot at stake here. How do you guys do that? 744 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,560 Like, like what's your selection process to make sure that you 745 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,639 pay you, you pick people the right way. 746 00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:58,160 The people are agree that it's fair so that it keeps it a 747 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,280 positive energy because that's super important. 748 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,040 Yeah. I mean, we have super smart 749 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,200 technologists who who have figured that out. 750 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:11,160 Basically we from the beginning, we worked with this organization 751 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:15,800 called random.org, which is a bunch of like steps PhDs at a 752 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,520 Trinity College. And these guys are amazing. 753 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:22,240 They, they detest pseudo randomness, computer generated 754 00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:25,920 randomness because it doesn't incorporate the unpredictability 755 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,600 of nature, but they love natural randomness. 756 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,960 And so they basically created this beyond my pay grade, but 757 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,320 they, they basically like can channel in like radio frequency 758 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,640 through like atmospheric noise. Sometimes you hear people doing 759 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,000 it through lava lamps. Essentially they can bring in 760 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,720 the in nature, bring in through hotbeds and then they can create 761 00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:45,200 an actual like true randomness generator. 762 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,360 And so that's how we, that's how we select. 763 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,280 So. So why is that better than 764 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,720 computer jet computer? Generated randomness isn't 765 00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:55,640 actually all that random. It's hacked, it's eminently 766 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,960 hackable and all that stuff. Yeah, yeah. 767 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,480 What I can see Rory going. Then I'm fascinated by this. 768 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,040 Yeah. The other weird thing about 769 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,040 randomness, of course, is that it is actually it. 770 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:11,640 Often true randomness looks less random than fake randomness to 771 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,200 the human eye. It's the same same human aspect 772 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,720 I suppose, where we see faces in clouds we're we're over 773 00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:21,640 optimised for pattern recognition, randomness. 774 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,320 Is scary it's. Total randomness. 775 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:29,040 I mean, I always wonder about that, which is if we, if you 776 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:34,040 realise how completely random world history is. 777 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:38,160 Oh, yeah. So for example, World War One 778 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:43,280 sort of happened because the chauffeur of the of the 779 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,600 archduke's car took a wrong turn and then it was a car that was 780 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,280 very difficult to get into reverse. 781 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:50,880 Yeah. Have you read Fluke? 782 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,400 Fluke Brian class. It's absolutely brilliant book. 783 00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:58,280 Fantastic book. And it is interesting because he 784 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,720 he makes the point actually, that it does actually suggest 785 00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:04,400 that although life is much more random than we think, our power 786 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,040 to influence things may be actually greater than we think. 787 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:07,960 Yeah. Yeah. 788 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,800 Fairly small things can have really quite consequential 789 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:11,720 effects. Yeah. 790 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,480 But it, it, it I think, I think that's one of the best books 791 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:15,680 I've read in the last 10 years. Yeah. 792 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:16,440 Absolutely. Yeah. 793 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:23,920 So, so amazes now over £100 million business, right? 794 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:28,760 So you guys making the move to go to the UK, that probably was 795 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:30,880 a massive tick for you. And everyone was like, yeah, 796 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:34,080 that was the right call. So, so, So what went through 797 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,320 that journey? So you go to EU, the UK year 798 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,520 one, year 2 until now. Like what is the growth 799 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,760 trajectory from a financial standpoint for the business? 800 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,080 Yeah. I mean it's we, you know, we 801 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:51,040 went from zero to over 400 million run rate in, you know, 802 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,440 just under five years and and profitable. 803 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,960 Yeah. So it's it's and now we launched 804 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,040 in Germany, which is really interesting. 805 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,560 And the growth of your donations is going up pro, yeah. 806 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:05,600 Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we just passed. 807 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,280 We've given, you know, we're top five corporate donor in the UK, 808 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,720 five years in the other AstraZeneca, Glaxo Smith, Kline, 809 00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:16,800 Barclays, Tesco, you know, so yeah, we've given over £120 810 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,320 million to charity in the UK. So it's like it's real. 811 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:24,560 Like it's, it's, it's real impact, you know, weird. 812 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,960 It's, it's definitely like having quite a, a ripple effect, 813 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,000 you know, and it's like really tangible projects for like I 814 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:36,320 said, the great Orange St. pediatric cancer unit that we're 815 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,240 building has this space editing treatment that is the first of 816 00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:40,800 its kind. We actually helped fund the very 817 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,960 first person they ever did it to save this girl with, with life 818 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,760 threatening leukemia. Now it's going to be able to 819 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:52,400 house 200 kids a year. Like I said, the the London Air 820 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:56,120 Ambulances, like we fund those, those helicopters above London, 821 00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:00,560 they now have the first mobile ECMO unit in the UK. 822 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:05,200 And I was actually saved by the very first mobile ECMO unit in 823 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,400 the world. When I was saved, the first time 824 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:08,960 it ever was moved was to save me. 825 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,600 And now we funded the first one in the UK. 826 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,000 We're, we're funding the New Eden Project. 827 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,040 We, you know, we're, we're building a Cancer Center with 828 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,000 Maggie's, which is going to be designed specifically for 829 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,080 patients recovering in new ways. Like it's, it's, you know, it's 830 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,240 real ripple effect. It's more than just giving away 831 00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:29,480 houses. Oh. 832 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:34,800 Yeah, although actually I will also place a little bit of a 833 00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:37,280 bonuses. You're also funding pretty good 834 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:41,640 architecture. I mean, absolutely, if you think 835 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,920 about it, that, you know, country house building by the 836 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,400 independently wealthy is in decline when you think about it, 837 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,200 that's one of our great, you know, in the UK, not always the 838 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,360 money raised from the best sources, I might add, but 839 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,080 nonetheless, it's a fantastic sort of patrimony. 840 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,880 And, you know, you know, you know, I mean, the National Trust 841 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:05,280 and the general British country house thing, along with 842 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,440 landscape gardening, it was a huge cultural contribution. 843 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,920 I mean, you know what, whatever the actual origins of the wealth 844 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:17,760 and actually building really first rate houses is worthwhile 845 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:19,200 in itself. Yeah. 846 00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:22,200 Yeah, we, yeah, it's a big passion ours, you know, we're, 847 00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:25,040 we're, we don't build every house, but we're building 3 a 848 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,560 year and eventually that'll be, you know, 6A year or 849 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,880 refurbishing every one of them, you know, so it gets, it's hard 850 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,840 to find like these great, like, you know, historic houses in the 851 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,400 Lake District or Cornwall that also have modern amenities. 852 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,320 And so like, that's a really fun thing for us to do. 853 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:45,080 I've got a cunning idea. One of them I've got a couple. 854 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:51,080 One idea, by the way, which is the the effectively things which 855 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,520 are hybrid charities and businesses really interest me 856 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,960 because I think we have a false dichotomy between it's either 857 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,800 charity, which is 100% sacrifice, or it's entirely 858 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,320 selfish. And economists don't really 859 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,440 understand the power of generosity because generosity in 860 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:11,960 itself can be enjoyable. And I for ages tried to get 861 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:15,480 someone interested in this idea where I was talking to Transport 862 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,400 for Wales. And one of my arguments is that 863 00:41:17,720 --> 00:41:19,760 a lot of car parks are kind of you. 864 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,360 A lot of station car parks are kind of useless after 9:30 865 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:25,040 because you can't be sure of parking there. 866 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:29,280 And so I said, look, if you're a pure economist, you'd say we'll 867 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,720 have 10 spaces, which is just three times as expensive as all 868 00:41:32,720 --> 00:41:35,600 the other spaces which are for people to use in emergencies. 869 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,480 You know, you've got a job interview at Goldman Sachs, you 870 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,480 know, OK, it's £30 to park rather than 10, but today it's 871 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,400 worth it. And then I thought, well, the 872 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,160 problem with that is the council then, or whoever operates the 873 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,400 car park looks as if they're price gouging. 874 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:54,560 And I said, if you had every street, every car park had 10 875 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:58,800 spaces which are the same price plus 20 lbs given to charity, 876 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,040 you've actually uncovered willingness to pay. 877 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,360 In other words, who really needs this parking space while 878 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:11,040 benefiting a charity without the operator of the car park looking 879 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,320 greedy? And there's also the 880 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,400 psychological reframing, which I find really interesting in this, 881 00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:21,360 which is there's this huge argument about hospital parking 882 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,520 in the UK and now, you know, are they profiteering? 883 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,000 Is it too expensive? Should have hospital parking be 884 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,440 free? Well, the only problem with that 885 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,720 is you, unless you turned up at 5:00 in the morning, you'd never 886 00:42:31,720 --> 00:42:34,760 be able to park. But it always struck me that 887 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,120 would people complain about hospital parking if the sign 888 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:41,400 says 80% of the proceeds from this car park go to the 889 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,280 hospital. In other words, would we 890 00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,440 complain if we had to pay a parking fine, if, if you know, 891 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,920 or a speeding fine if it said the 100 lbs go towards Rd. 892 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,760 repair or goes towards, you know, Rd. safety campaigning or 893 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,040 whatever it may be. And the government is very, very 894 00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:01,080 bad at effectively this business of hypothecating money 895 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,320 psychologically. And it's it's it's a treasury 896 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:07,920 item of faith that all, all money raised through the tax 897 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:11,440 system must be unhypothecated. In other words, it's for the 898 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:12,960 Treasury to do what the hell they like with. 899 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,000 And it always struck me the the Liberal Democrats did have that 900 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:20,680 idea, didn't they? 1% on tax for the NHS and you 901 00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,840 paid this extra 1% of tax and it was probably separately itemized 902 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,240 on your P11 or whatever. What do they call? 903 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,080 OK, And it said, you know, this 56 lbs that you've paid extra or 904 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:31,840 whatever it might be. That's quite a lot actually. 905 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,640 But this month, OK, yes, you are paying £56 extra in tax, but 906 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,680 this isn't just tax, it's going straight to the NHS. 907 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,880 Now that struck me. If you, I don't think economists 908 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:48,520 understand that we do actually care where the money goes when 909 00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,320 we spend it, I think he goes at some level. 910 00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,240 I think he goes even further. I think the reason why a lot of 911 00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:56,600 charities are finding it very difficult right now, it's 912 00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,280 because, like you said, it goes to the NHS. 913 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,160 But what does that actually mean, right? 914 00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:04,120 Like people want to be able to see the tangible like, and 915 00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:05,440 that's why I think that amazes so. 916 00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,200 Integration The local hospital. Yeah, yeah, because you can see. 917 00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,160 Yeah. What's going to be done, what 918 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,800 you're going to get, who gets it and what is the mechanism for us 919 00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:15,680 doing it? And that's why Mr. Beast does so 920 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:17,960 well, because people can see the tangible impact, right? 921 00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:23,040 I think there was a, there was a tweet with Elon and like, I 922 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,320 forgot the, the global charity that it was, but I think it was 923 00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:30,080 like not UNICEF, but it was like a world charity. 924 00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,640 And I think they went on their back and forth like Elon does. 925 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:36,440 And then he said, I'll give you the, the 70 billion or whatever 926 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,560 it is that you need, but I want to see where every penny goes. 927 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:41,200 And there was no response, right? 928 00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:45,200 And I think that that's just a, that's just a, a, the reality of 929 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:46,800 how people are. The first thing they'll say is 930 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,280 I'm pay all these taxes, but the roads aren't working, right? 931 00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:51,600 So that they want to see where it's going to go. 932 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:52,960 And I think that if people actually said. 933 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,240 This is where degree is. Here's the storytelling you did. 934 00:44:56,240 --> 00:44:59,840 There's actually like there's, there's a lady in Kenya and she 935 00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:02,720 has a YouTube channel and she looks after some children. 936 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:06,120 She's in a local area and people can donate and they can see the 937 00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:09,120 stuff arriving and like the shoes that you've given and 938 00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:10,720 who's wearing it and what's happening. 939 00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,240 And people are more investing into that because they can 940 00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:15,720 actually see the tangible benefits of the village that's 941 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:17,480 that they're seeing on the usury channel. 942 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,360 So what it looked like a year ago, and it's after putting like 943 00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,000 the money in, what they've built, how they've helped the 944 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,840 people, there's more just about like transparency, right? 945 00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,120 And I think that the more you can see the tangible impact of 946 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,640 where it's going, the more trusted you're able to gain that 947 00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:32,400 people want to give. They're going to make sure that 948 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,080 they're not just putting it into a black box and like it's 949 00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,120 disappearing. And then you don't actually know 950 00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,080 what the impact is. I would, yeah, I would agree 951 00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:40,240 with that. People definitely want the 952 00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:42,720 tangible impact. But I also think we hold 953 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,200 charities to standards that we would never hold for profit 954 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:47,160 businesses. Yeah. 955 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,200 We don't want them to pay well. Yeah, like people trying to 956 00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:52,360 solve solve societal problems they must take. 957 00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:55,760 Huge. There's a famous example of this 958 00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:59,080 from the US which I heard on a podcast which is some guy took 959 00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:02,120 over a cancelled charity and he basically spent the. 960 00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,840 The AIDS red one you're. Talking about it could well be 961 00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,280 someone spent a fortune on marketing and raised an absolute 962 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:09,920 fortune. OK, right. 963 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:14,680 And after three years of this, they said only 70% of what we 964 00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:18,320 raise is going is going to charitable causes, 30% is going 965 00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,240 to marketing. So they replaced him with 966 00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:23,600 someone who is far more frugal and raised way less and raised 967 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,880 way less. Yes, yes, 97% was now going to 968 00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,520 charitable causes, but the the overall about was about a 10. 969 00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,560 Would you rather have 70? Would you rather have 50% of a 970 00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:37,400 billion or 70% of 100 million? Yeah, that's exactly Yeah, yeah. 971 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,120 And and yeah, he got fired like it's a very, very. 972 00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:41,560 Famous. It's a famous case, isn't it? 973 00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:42,560 Yeah. Yeah, he has got. 974 00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:47,160 Fire fired effectively for being successful in an expensive way, 975 00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,360 yeah, rather than failing in an efficient way. 976 00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:52,080 He has a really interesting explanation of why that is. 977 00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,440 And he said if you think about the origin of charity, it 978 00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:55,800 actually started with the Puritans. 979 00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,560 The Puritans came to the US and it turns out they were 980 00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,360 incredibly good capitalists. They're really good business. 981 00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:05,520 People because they're stingy bastards actually, but they 982 00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,320 always think of America as like we had Australia for people who 983 00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:11,760 stole a sheep and if you're a whack job puritan, you went 984 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:12,520 West. Thank you. 985 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,520 But they but their but their religion said you can't do 986 00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:20,240 anything in yourself interest essentially. 987 00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,480 So they created the concept of charity to essentially say, OK, 988 00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,480 we want to keep making this money, but we also want to go to 989 00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,320 heaven. And so they created the concept 990 00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,840 of charity to say, this is how we're going to pay off what 991 00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,360 we're doing over here, right. So we're going to give 10%. 992 00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:37,840 And so then so then you could never have charity and business 993 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,880 intersect because the charity was the thing that made you to 994 00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:44,160 go to heaven because what you did in business, you know what I 995 00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:45,120 mean? And that's like where it 996 00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:47,120 permeated through our culture. And now we have this culture 997 00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:51,080 where like we, we are totally fine paying people to do bad, 998 00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:52,440 yes. We. 999 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,440 Don't care at all. Someone like can make 70 million 1000 00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,560 a year in a bank that plunges. Us into the great self-interest 1001 00:47:58,560 --> 00:47:59,800 side, yeah. We're like, no, it's fine, 1002 00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:01,920 they're in their self-interest. But if someone wants to make 1003 00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:05,120 500,000 running UNICEF, which is a 10 billion organization, we're 1004 00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:07,160 like no, no, no, no, no, no. Why? 1005 00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,440 Why do we? Is it like, is it because that's 1006 00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,720 threatening if someone's doing good and also making money, 1007 00:48:13,720 --> 00:48:16,200 their status is higher? Or like, why do? 1008 00:48:16,240 --> 00:48:18,880 Why do we hate that so much? I. 1009 00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,840 Actually think that one of the things that will be most 1010 00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:26,120 interesting in the field of economics would be a 1011 00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:31,640 redefinition of poverty. And in particular, the problem 1012 00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:34,760 we have in society at the moment, which is it's not that 1013 00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,640 there isn't enough money, it's back end weighted in terms of 1014 00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:40,560 people's lives. Now I, I've got a vague theory 1015 00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:44,840 that you could transform the British economy and eliminate 1016 00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,960 large amounts of poverty if you said you have your student loan, 1017 00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:50,000 but you don't have to spend it on education. 1018 00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,840 In other words, so my, you know that famous phrase which is they 1019 00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,160 asked someone how did you get poor twice? 1020 00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,400 They said first slowly and then quickly. 1021 00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,680 In a way, if you asked me how I got rich, it's the other way 1022 00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:04,360 around. It's first quickly, then slowly. 1023 00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:08,120 So there were certain decisive moments where suddenly you got 1024 00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,920 £4000 in the bank. So now you can buy a car and 1025 00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,280 make yourself more effective because you know that if 1026 00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,520 something goes right wrong with the car, it's not going to ruin 1027 00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:19,120 your entire life. So I had this very interesting 1028 00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:20,920 experience. I, I, I've got to be careful, 1029 00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:24,040 I'm not giving away anything. But in two cases, my wife had an 1030 00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,400 old car which we replaced with an electric car. 1031 00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,600 We should sell it and maybe we should sell it and give the 1032 00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:31,600 money to charity. But in two cases we knew 1033 00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:35,280 somebody who didn't own a car and had to walk to work who was 1034 00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:37,480 actually quite useful to some relatives of ours. 1035 00:49:37,720 --> 00:49:39,720 And we knew someone who was very, very helpful to my own 1036 00:49:39,720 --> 00:49:42,480 father and we wanted to give them the car, just give it to 1037 00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:44,760 them. And in both cases, they turned 1038 00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:46,880 it down because they couldn't afford the running costs. 1039 00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,440 And I suddenly realized, OK, we've got, in other words, if 1040 00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:54,000 you went to people at the beginning of their life and you 1041 00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,960 gave them a one off lump sum, Roger L Martin believes that 1042 00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:01,760 you, the tax system should work. Not that the first £10,000 you 1043 00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:05,920 earn every year is tax free, but that the first I think was he 1044 00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:08,720 was Canadian. So the first 250,000 Canadian 1045 00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:11,160 dollars you earn in your life, that's free of income tax. 1046 00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,440 So effectively, if you front weight people's wealth so they 1047 00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,720 have a better cushion and they don't have to get into debt, 1048 00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:23,040 right, I think you could actually transform all sorts of 1049 00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,360 things like happiness, you know, actually people. 1050 00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:32,320 So poverty in a sense is the lack of freedom to take evasive 1051 00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,560 action from being poor in a funny kind of way. 1052 00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:39,440 And if you give people constant Chinese water torture, drip, 1053 00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:42,040 drip. So oddly, the people who 1054 00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:45,000 proposed this were actually quite right wing people in the 1055 00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:48,160 US who wanted welfare to be a lump sum system. 1056 00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:51,760 And the narrative is always that if you give a lot of these 1057 00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:54,560 people a lump sum, they'll do silly things with it. 1058 00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:59,080 And all the empirical evidence in kind of effective alcoholism 1059 00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:02,320 suggests that to a remarkable extent, people don't. 1060 00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,760 You know, I'd go even further and say that to some extent, if 1061 00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,840 you've got very little money, drinking and smoking a lot is 1062 00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:13,120 actually quite rational because they're quite considerable 1063 00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:15,520 pleasures which don't mess with your cash. 1064 00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:16,720 Sure. Yeah, right. 1065 00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,760 You know, I mean, there was a famous John Reed who is the 1066 00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:23,160 health secretary here, who famously was a smoker while 1067 00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,480 being secretary. You have to keep it fairly 1068 00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:31,600 secret, but the, the I, I think if you, the way to re the way to 1069 00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:35,720 rethink welfare is to understand the path dependency of life. 1070 00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,520 And so in a sense, you know these, you know, these games of 1071 00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:43,320 chance where if you have a chance of having a lump sum at 1072 00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:47,120 30, that you know, 5000 lbs at 30. 1073 00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:50,680 I mean, bluntly put, you know, my entire life changed once 1074 00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,160 because I inherited this sounds absolutely trivial. 1000 lbs 1075 00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:56,480 from an aunt. And I had that then and I kept 1076 00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:59,560 it and I knew it was there, which changed my attitude to 1077 00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:02,040 money significantly. And then I inherited from 1078 00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:05,080 another aunt. I inherited 20, by the way, just 1079 00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:07,520 a bit of total, total irrelevance. 1080 00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:11,280 But the thousand fans I inherited from an aunt came from 1081 00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:15,000 the fact that she married the son of a man called Roberts who 1082 00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:20,040 invented the Caterpillar track and sold the Caterpillar tract 1083 00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:23,280 to, I think the California Tractor Company. 1084 00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:27,680 He sold the patent in the before the First World War, I seem to 1085 00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:30,800 remember actually. And I thought, well, nevermind, 1086 00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,120 you know, the company then went on to rebrand as Caterpillar. 1087 00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:38,840 So this 1000 lbs. I got was a tidy residue from 1088 00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:42,280 this effectively her husband's father being the inventor of the 1089 00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:45,960 Caterpillar tract back in about 19, I think it's 1910. 1090 00:52:47,720 --> 00:52:49,640 And by the way, just sorry, it's a detail. 1091 00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:53,320 What's quite famous about the invention by this company in in 1092 00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:56,320 Lincolnshire that invented the Caterpillar track is they made 1093 00:52:56,320 --> 00:53:00,720 the first ever corporate video in history. 1094 00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,360 Sorry, this is a weird connection, but they actually 1095 00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:06,640 made a film of the Caterpillar track and they showed it in 1096 00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:08,120 cinemas. It's a silent film. 1097 00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:11,640 It only survives with German subtitles, rather rather 1098 00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:14,400 weirdly, but you can see it on YouTube and it's the first 1099 00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:18,680 commercial film ever made that was totally irrelevant. 1100 00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,080 I'm sorry about that, but I thought I thought I'd share it, 1101 00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:23,920 Yeah. But guys, this has been an 1102 00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:27,080 exciting episode. Literally every single second of 1103 00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:30,960 that from the start, going from your emotional story to Rory 1104 00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:32,680 taking us to a completely different space. 1105 00:53:33,240 --> 00:53:35,600 It's been exciting. But but Matt, you've been an 1106 00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,240 amazing, it's been incredible. It's been incredible. 1107 00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:41,680 We'll sure we'll have you back again to see all the good work 1108 00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,200 and talk about all the impact that you guys have been been 1109 00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:45,640 generating. So thank you. 1110 00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:47,320 Thank you, Alfred. Thank you, Rory. 1111 00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:48,040 That was a lot of fun.