1 00:00:00,700 --> 00:00:04,800 This is a conversation about swing thoughts, really enjoyed 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:08,500 this chat that I have a doctor no Russo and last week you might 3 00:00:08,500 --> 00:00:11,000 have heard the podcast on swing thoughts as a kind of, a 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:12,700 compliation of a few different things. 5 00:00:12,700 --> 00:00:16,400 But I wanted to share this unedited version talking a 6 00:00:16,407 --> 00:00:19,100 little bit about his research that he's done a little bit 7 00:00:19,100 --> 00:00:22,000 about the Practical aspect since he is a golf coach. 8 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:25,300 And yeah, just shared this entire thing for y'all to follow 9 00:00:25,300 --> 00:00:27,500 along is a good chat. I enjoyed it. 10 00:00:27,500 --> 00:00:29,800 Lots of good stuff in here. Let's get to it. 11 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,500 You are listening to the golf Science Lab podcast. 12 00:00:35,700 --> 00:00:37,900 My name is Corey Walker, and I'm on a mission to figure out how 13 00:00:37,900 --> 00:00:40,500 to improve the way that we learn and get better at golf. 14 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:42,700 I've been able to travel all over the world talking to the 15 00:00:42,700 --> 00:00:45,800 leaders in the industry from instructors, to researchers, to 16 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:49,100 Golfers themselves learning how they're getting better at golf 17 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:58,200 and what that means for you. I want to start I guess. 18 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,500 Like, how would you define Swing thoughts, what is Swing 19 00:01:01,500 --> 00:01:02,700 thoughts? What does that mean to you 20 00:01:03,300 --> 00:01:06,000 swing? Thoughts is from a research 21 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,000 perspective. It's going to be, you know, 22 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:13,100 mechanical cues that happened during your swing, but I mean 23 00:01:13,100 --> 00:01:15,700 for us as golfers are, so just anything that's going on in your 24 00:01:15,700 --> 00:01:19,000 mind related to your swing, while you hit which, you know, 25 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,100 which is a is a distinction. Because often a swing thought, 26 00:01:22,100 --> 00:01:26,100 you know, is often just a feel and some kind of vague, vague 27 00:01:26,100 --> 00:01:29,400 idea of a feeling of a movement where I other swing thoughts. 28 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:33,700 Obviously, A lot more bulky and cumbersome to deal with and 29 00:01:33,700 --> 00:01:37,000 technically focused. Could you kind of maybe lay out 30 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:39,300 a few different types of Swing thoughts? 31 00:01:39,300 --> 00:01:43,000 Like you know like thinking about internally on your you 32 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,800 know your movements are a could you kind of maybe share some 33 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,900 examples and different types of thoughts that people can have in 34 00:01:49,900 --> 00:01:52,000 terms of how we might categorize them? 35 00:01:52,100 --> 00:01:55,100 Yeah, yeah because one, you know, one swing thought is not 36 00:01:55,100 --> 00:01:59,400 the same as, you know, as another from a whole number of 37 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:00,300 perspectives. Tips. 38 00:02:00,300 --> 00:02:03,400 So if you look at the the different types of Swing 39 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:05,400 thoughts, you've obviously got in the way that you've alluded 40 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,000 to there. The internal external focus of 41 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,000 attention, which is I'm sure most of your listeners will be 42 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,500 fairly aware of that, which is a brilliant line of research. 43 00:02:14,500 --> 00:02:19,200 So internal Focus being on your body and how you kind of control 44 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,700 that and external being on more the effect of the movement. 45 00:02:22,700 --> 00:02:25,900 So in the golf swing that's going to be predominantly the 46 00:02:25,900 --> 00:02:30,500 club and the club face the idea there being that you're you 47 00:02:30,500 --> 00:02:35,100 know, if you're focusing on the external factors, IE the club 48 00:02:35,100 --> 00:02:39,000 face, then you are just then allowing your body to in your 49 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,600 brain to self organize the movement in order to coordinate 50 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,400 the club face. In that way, you're going to be 51 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,800 much more automatic. The research, which suggests a 52 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,100 lot less prone to her to Breaking Down Under Pressure as 53 00:02:51,100 --> 00:02:53,400 well. So in this huge advantages of 54 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,500 that external Focus well as internal Focus, you know, you've 55 00:02:56,500 --> 00:02:59,100 got to really think about how the body moves and that may not 56 00:02:59,100 --> 00:03:02,300 be In a way that relates to the to the task. 57 00:03:02,300 --> 00:03:05,100 Now you might be thinking a lot about your backswing when you're 58 00:03:05,100 --> 00:03:08,200 chipping and that may give you a fantastic backswing but not 59 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,500 necessarily the right distance on the shot or the strike Etc. 60 00:03:11,700 --> 00:03:14,400 So that's yeah, that's the internal external Focus but 61 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,100 there's lots of other categories as well. 62 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,300 So then you've got the kind of part movement or holistic 63 00:03:20,300 --> 00:03:23,400 movement. So you know how much you break 64 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,100 break the movement down is you know, it's too difficult as 65 00:03:26,100 --> 00:03:28,600 well, isn't it? I mean if I'm just thinking on 66 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,000 the course about Like though, turn turn back turn through. 67 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,200 I mean that's that's that that's thought pretty much covers the 68 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,400 whole the whole swing. But in very broad terms where as 69 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,300 you know, if I broke in my swing down into where my elbow points 70 00:03:41,300 --> 00:03:44,700 at the top of the backswing, and maybe another checkpoint two, 71 00:03:45,300 --> 00:03:49,900 well, yeah, that they are two very precise and distinct my 72 00:03:49,900 --> 00:03:51,300 linemen. So, I'm trying to create, I 73 00:03:51,308 --> 00:03:54,500 mean, that is going to break down the fluidity of the motion, 74 00:03:54,900 --> 00:03:57,300 but that's not to say it's, you know, it's completely wrong if 75 00:03:57,300 --> 00:03:59,800 you've practiced while thinking about those two. 76 00:03:59,900 --> 00:04:03,900 To those to swing thoughts and it and that that thought process 77 00:04:03,900 --> 00:04:06,600 has been chunked in is something that you can now deal with quite 78 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,100 easily than that may work for you very nicely but certainly 79 00:04:10,100 --> 00:04:13,200 not you know as a new swing thought on the day I would I 80 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,600 would keep it very Broad and ideally have a whole movement. 81 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:18,800 Focus would be a lot better under pressure. 82 00:04:27,900 --> 00:04:30,800 So we've defined swing thoughts and to find a few types of Swing 83 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,100 thoughts. Could you lay out your, your 84 00:04:33,100 --> 00:04:35,900 research that you did? Well, I still like to that with 85 00:04:35,900 --> 00:04:41,000 that, as a fairly analytic or chapped and as a young player I 86 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,400 would, it's, I would choke something horribly in 87 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,400 competition. That, I mean, I could shoot 20 88 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:47,900 shots more than I did in the practice round. 89 00:04:47,900 --> 00:04:50,600 I mean properly choking and when that, when that would happen, 90 00:04:50,700 --> 00:04:54,000 And I would be absolutely riddled with swing thoughts and 91 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,200 trying to control every aspect of the movement. 92 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:58,900 And that's, you know, that's something that pressure does to 93 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:01,300 talk to a lot of us. It makes us want to kind of 94 00:05:01,300 --> 00:05:04,100 control and make sure that we don't we don't mess up and I'm 95 00:05:04,100 --> 00:05:06,700 sure a lot of your, a lot of your listeners will relate to 96 00:05:06,700 --> 00:05:09,500 that. And then, you know, and as 97 00:05:09,500 --> 00:05:11,900 things progressed and I became a coach, I got involved in a 98 00:05:11,900 --> 00:05:15,200 brilliant Academy, and their whole kind of philosophy was 99 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,800 about, you know, moving fluidly and not. 100 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,500 Not thinking too much about about the technique and as much 101 00:05:20,700 --> 00:05:23,400 Is no, I would say, that's that's fairly limited. 102 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:27,300 It does have huge benefits. So the research was had this 103 00:05:27,300 --> 00:05:32,600 fantastic Intervention, which basically stop people think 104 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,500 about their swing other than a few very basic holistic, 105 00:05:35,500 --> 00:05:37,400 thoughts. And the idea was you would you 106 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,800 get yourself, Focus behind the ball, have your practice swing, 107 00:05:40,100 --> 00:05:42,900 his walk into the ball, plant your feet and hit it. 108 00:05:42,900 --> 00:05:45,900 I mean not not in there. Completely Happy Gilmore way but 109 00:05:45,900 --> 00:05:48,200 you know, you've got enough time to set yourself and then get 110 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:49,600 moving. But what you don't have enough 111 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,200 time to do is to Stand over the ball, stop think, worried and 112 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:55,100 engaging. All the kind of self instruction 113 00:05:55,100 --> 00:05:58,000 that would typically go on. When you when you're standing on 114 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:02,800 the First Tee that intervention, I used to use a lot and I still 115 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:04,700 use it. But I mean I used to use a lot 116 00:06:04,700 --> 00:06:07,700 when used with the right person at the right time, which is 117 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,900 unbelievably transformational. I mean, I've seen people who are 118 00:06:11,900 --> 00:06:13,700 at their wit's end with the game. 119 00:06:13,700 --> 00:06:16,900 All of a sudden, move fluidly and balance powerfully, and the 120 00:06:16,900 --> 00:06:20,600 strike is entirely different to what they would have. 121 00:06:20,700 --> 00:06:24,700 Previously just by being forced into that state of of 122 00:06:24,700 --> 00:06:29,800 automaticity and low swings for. So those results were undeniable 123 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:31,500 and I've seen them time and time again. 124 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:36,400 But I was also seeing golfers who I would, I would I had use 125 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,600 the same kind of intervention with it just didn't work and in 126 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,300 fact it made it made them worse and I've had to kind of back out 127 00:06:42,300 --> 00:06:44,700 very quickly. So now after a few years of 128 00:06:44,700 --> 00:06:46,900 doing this, I mean I could see there was something with them. 129 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,700 So I wanted to I wanted to obviously pursue that and And 130 00:06:50,700 --> 00:06:53,400 get some, get some research done and there wasn't much research 131 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,600 down on it at the time, I mean, any research done on 132 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:58,900 automaticity. So that's that, you know, not 133 00:06:58,900 --> 00:07:01,700 thinking about your swing in golf is all done on patting 134 00:07:01,700 --> 00:07:04,700 patting is. So it is a, you know, completely 135 00:07:04,700 --> 00:07:06,900 different task mechanically and obviously. 136 00:07:06,900 --> 00:07:10,600 So we were going into new territory really with the full 137 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,300 swing that they've been no, no, no studies. 138 00:07:13,300 --> 00:07:15,100 On the full swing and swing thoughts previously. 139 00:07:15,100 --> 00:07:17,900 So, there we go. I'm in the aim was really, if 140 00:07:17,900 --> 00:07:22,000 I'm honest for me to find out why this And how I can make it 141 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,100 work with more people and then revolutionize the way that we 142 00:07:25,100 --> 00:07:28,300 learn and play golf. But as the study panned out, it 143 00:07:28,300 --> 00:07:30,200 turned out to be a lot more complicated than that. 144 00:07:30,500 --> 00:07:35,600 So the first of five studies was on, I mean, we looked, we looked 145 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:39,100 at the we looked at that that intervention under pressure, 146 00:07:39,100 --> 00:07:42,600 non-pressure and compared the two and then what we found 147 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,300 initially and bear in mind, this is with fairly good players. 148 00:07:45,300 --> 00:07:48,400 I mean, these were all six handicap and below and we found 149 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,600 that there as a group there wasn't any any A difference as 150 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,000 to when they were, you know, using the intervention or not 151 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,200 using the intervention but you know, and incidentally, we were, 152 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,400 we were monitoring and checking whether it had reduced their 153 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,200 swing for which was confirmed. I mean, the intervention worked 154 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,400 on that front but their performance hadn't hadn't 155 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,000 changed which was, you know, somewhat disappointing because I 156 00:08:07,008 --> 00:08:09,300 really thought I was onto something with this drill. 157 00:08:09,700 --> 00:08:12,900 So you know over the next few years we did lots of variations 158 00:08:12,900 --> 00:08:15,200 of the drill. We gave people time to go away 159 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,000 and practice it and get used to it because it was slightly harsh 160 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,900 being forced to stand to stand on the tee quickly and It it, 161 00:08:20,900 --> 00:08:25,800 but even after practice, so there was no group Wise Wise, 162 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,400 some results from a performance standpoint. 163 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,700 So, you know, it's actually not as we look further through the 164 00:08:31,700 --> 00:08:34,799 data and, I mean, it was pretty clear that some people were 165 00:08:34,799 --> 00:08:37,500 getting better when they were forced to not think about their 166 00:08:37,500 --> 00:08:41,000 swing and they were getting better in a very obvious and you 167 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,900 know, impressive way some people's performance got a bit 168 00:08:44,900 --> 00:08:46,600 worse. So that's that's why the whole 169 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,600 kind of groupwise average never improved. 170 00:08:50,300 --> 00:08:53,900 So then we had to start digging around as to try and find out 171 00:08:53,900 --> 00:08:56,500 why some people are getting better and why some people 172 00:08:56,500 --> 00:08:59,800 aren't and that took us down the route of looking at personality 173 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:04,800 traits. Yeah I think that it changes I 174 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,600 don't think that like you know I've played good golf with all 175 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:10,100 different types of Swing thoughts. 176 00:09:10,100 --> 00:09:16,000 I feel like in it's not necessarily what the thought is. 177 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:20,800 It's kind of how it makes me feel or You know, kind of the 178 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,300 state that it puts me in everything there's danger. 179 00:09:23,300 --> 00:09:27,200 So I mean, I would imagine that you like, many of us would have 180 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:29,800 had the experience of playing some really good golf. 181 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,500 And then on reflection thinking, you know, crikey, I didn't I 182 00:09:32,508 --> 00:09:35,400 didn't actually think about my swing any point in that round. 183 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,900 Yes, absolutely. And that's fairly common, isn't 184 00:09:37,900 --> 00:09:39,300 it? You know, we will look back on 185 00:09:39,300 --> 00:09:41,600 our best rounds of golf from and that's, that's the case. 186 00:09:42,700 --> 00:09:46,000 So I mean, like if you're like me, you'd have then thought. 187 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,500 Okay, well, maybe perhaps the next round then I'm going to I'm 188 00:09:48,500 --> 00:09:50,600 going to commit to not thinking about My swing. 189 00:09:51,100 --> 00:09:53,700 Have you tried that? Yes, how's that worked out? 190 00:09:53,900 --> 00:09:56,400 Not always great because you miss a shot, he missed a couple 191 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,200 shots and then you then you start to think about it. 192 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:03,400 Yeah so did I so I mean you know that was a place I was in for a 193 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,700 long time, you know all the advice and the sport Science 194 00:10:06,700 --> 00:10:08,000 would say don't think about your swing. 195 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:09,600 So now I'm thinking okay, does that mean? 196 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:13,800 I just need to be, you know, more disciplined and and keep 197 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,400 that kind of process of not thinking about my swing, or is 198 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,800 there something may be flawed in the in the logic, you know? 199 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,100 And if in if things are going wrong in the balls you know 200 00:10:22,100 --> 00:10:24,600 going offline just not thinking about your swing isn't isn't 201 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:26,800 going to bring it back, is it? No, I would. 202 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,100 I would suggest anyway. So so yeah. 203 00:10:29,100 --> 00:10:32,400 It's a really, it's a really nuanced term area. 204 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:33,800 You know, it isn't isn't just one. 205 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,500 One thing works for everybody and not even the same thing 206 00:10:36,500 --> 00:10:40,200 works for the same person, you know, from day to day, the same 207 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,100 type of thought won't always work but there aren't. 208 00:10:42,100 --> 00:10:43,800 Yeah. There are some some really good 209 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,800 and strong areas that week that we can take from this. 210 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:49,800 So it's like just going back to my search but we did find them. 211 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:54,600 Was that people with a larger working memory capacity. 212 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,900 So basically, the ability to hold onto information in their 213 00:10:57,900 --> 00:11:00,000 head and process at the same time, which is what we're doing 214 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:01,700 when we're swinging with swing thoughts. 215 00:11:01,900 --> 00:11:04,500 These people did a lot better with the intervention, so these 216 00:11:04,500 --> 00:11:07,300 people were able to walk up to the ball, put their feet in and 217 00:11:07,300 --> 00:11:10,000 hit it fairly quickly. Those people tended to get 218 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,900 better with the intervention, those with a small working 219 00:11:12,900 --> 00:11:15,000 memory capacity or smaller didn't do so. 220 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,500 Well, we also looked at other cognitive traits, such as 221 00:11:18,500 --> 00:11:20,900 whether people were predominantly, Lee had a 222 00:11:20,900 --> 00:11:24,400 processing style of being auditory or more visual sir. 223 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,300 So the Oddity people were with thinking more kind of verbal 224 00:11:27,300 --> 00:11:29,600 terms. Lots of self talk anyway, and 225 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,300 the visual people would obviously thinking more in 226 00:11:33,300 --> 00:11:35,900 pictures and again there was quite a big difference there. 227 00:11:35,900 --> 00:11:39,100 The the order of the the verbalizes of that were called 228 00:11:39,100 --> 00:11:41,600 The Odyssey people found that found the intervention. 229 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:43,300 Again a lot more a lot more helpful. 230 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,200 So I mean, those were just just to personality traits. 231 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,300 I'm sure there's a whole host of personality traits that would 232 00:11:49,300 --> 00:11:52,300 Link in with Not to mention all the different types of Swing 233 00:11:52,300 --> 00:11:53,900 thoughts where you are with your swing. 234 00:11:53,900 --> 00:12:02,200 I mean, you know, it is complex. Hey, I just want to jump in here 235 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:03,400 real quick. If you're enjoying this 236 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,800 conversation and you enjoy nulls kind of outside the box coaching 237 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,600 philosophy and, you know, his whole approach which I think is 238 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,000 just so good based on his research in the way that he 239 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,300 approaches things, you might want to check out some of his 240 00:12:16,300 --> 00:12:18,500 online coaching. He has this online training 241 00:12:18,500 --> 00:12:22,600 program which is really unique. It's not your traditional kind 242 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:27,000 of approach, and it's very much aligned with the way that, that 243 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:28,900 I think. And the way the gulf science lab 244 00:12:28,900 --> 00:12:31,400 approaches getting Better at golf. 245 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,000 He has his background and learning and making sure that we 246 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:35,800 are learning effectively and practicing effectively. 247 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,700 So anyways, I thought that you all would enjoy it and Knowles 248 00:12:38,700 --> 00:12:41,800 has given us a great discount here for us. 249 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:47,400 All you can use a coupon code GS lab, 22, get discount. 250 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,100 When you check this program out, there is a link in the post 251 00:12:50,100 --> 00:12:52,600 along with this. Otherwise I'm gonna go off signs 252 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:58,800 live.com / and no land OE, L, check out what he is up to, I 253 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,800 can't recommend it enough. Anyways, let's go back to the 254 00:13:01,808 --> 00:13:08,800 chat. And that's the thing with spring 255 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,300 collection, I want I might I might have a swing Vlog because 256 00:13:11,300 --> 00:13:12,800 I'm changing my swing and let's face it. 257 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:14,800 If you're going to change your swing it and try and improve 258 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,000 your going to need swing thoughts, I mean there are there 259 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,300 are ways to improve your swing without swing thoughts, but they 260 00:13:20,300 --> 00:13:22,600 will take forever and be hugely frustrating. 261 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,900 So you know, at some point you are going to need to get 262 00:13:24,900 --> 00:13:26,300 technical and think about your swing. 263 00:13:26,300 --> 00:13:29,300 And that's a that's a big challenge for for coaches and on 264 00:13:29,300 --> 00:13:33,500 how to how to manage that level of Swing thought and cognitive 265 00:13:33,500 --> 00:13:36,300 load during the lesson. If we were to it, like, kind of 266 00:13:36,300 --> 00:13:41,400 maybe download or Summarize your study into a few sentences. 267 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,700 You know, the cliff notes for somebody here, what would be 268 00:13:44,700 --> 00:13:47,600 those cliff notes for them as a golfer thinking about their 269 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,500 swing thoughts? What do they need to know? 270 00:13:50,700 --> 00:13:53,500 Would you say they wouldn't need to know what works for them? 271 00:13:53,500 --> 00:13:56,700 I mean that's probably the biggest One external is always 272 00:13:56,700 --> 00:14:00,200 always going to be helpful. I would suggest not necessarily 273 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,700 for a long time learning. But I mean if your ball is going 274 00:14:02,700 --> 00:14:06,000 offline, focusing on on controlling the clubface and how 275 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,100 you deliver that? I mean that will Almost 276 00:14:08,100 --> 00:14:11,000 guarantee most significant Improvement without thinking 277 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,200 about how your, how you're having to deal with it and 278 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,700 deliver it on a more technical manner just that focus on 279 00:14:16,700 --> 00:14:20,000 delivering a square clubface in the same way that you know, when 280 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,000 you're playing in the wind you know good players report of of 281 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,500 having far less swing thoughts. Go, they just can't deal with 282 00:14:25,500 --> 00:14:27,100 all the, all the complexities of the Swing. 283 00:14:27,100 --> 00:14:30,200 They just focus on what is absolutely critical to the shot. 284 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,000 Which is, is going to be clubface. 285 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,900 Delivery in terms of obviously Loft in the wind and also face a 286 00:14:35,900 --> 00:14:38,700 got so so that's one. I mean, Focus on the things that 287 00:14:38,700 --> 00:14:40,900 really matter. So externally that would be, 288 00:14:40,900 --> 00:14:45,900 that we clubface, balanced fluidity, big, big holistic 289 00:14:45,900 --> 00:14:47,700 thoughts. Like, you know, turn back, turn 290 00:14:47,700 --> 00:14:49,800 through. Stay in Balance, would always 291 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,500 Trump smaller detailed elements of the swing. 292 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,300 For, you know, everybody listening, how would you suggest 293 00:15:02,300 --> 00:15:05,100 that? They go find a better swing 294 00:15:05,100 --> 00:15:08,600 fighter, they go find, you know, their next swing thought of 295 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,100 there any exercises, or any, any kind of ways that you help help 296 00:15:12,100 --> 00:15:14,000 students do that. Well, I mean, that's, that's 297 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,000 down to where they are with their, with their technique, 298 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,500 isn't it? I mean couldn't give a blanket 299 00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:20,400 idea there. I mean, Prince, what they're 300 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,600 trying to achieve in their movement, what I will say is, 301 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,900 you know, the trends I've seen our high handicap players are 302 00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:30,700 far more ball. The night handicap players. 303 00:15:30,700 --> 00:15:34,700 I mean, most professionals would report not really looking at the 304 00:15:34,700 --> 00:15:37,200 ball and certainly, not thinking about it, a great deal, which is 305 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,600 in massive contrast to to weekend, golfers who have a 306 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,500 strong bull focus, and then you can see in the movement, which 307 00:15:44,500 --> 00:15:48,300 case, I mean, the thought to just turn through and end in 308 00:15:48,300 --> 00:15:49,800 good balance. I think is brilliant. 309 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:53,300 I mean, having any thoughts that are Beyond impact? 310 00:15:53,300 --> 00:15:56,600 I think I generally very good and far more helpful than 311 00:15:56,700 --> 00:15:59,100 positioning of the The Club at the top of the backswing. 312 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,200 A try and trying to get to a good finish is always a good 313 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,800 thought to have. Do you recommend that people go 314 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,700 through your that flow intervention that you used? 315 00:16:07,700 --> 00:16:10,800 Absolutely a scent definitely give it a go on the on the 316 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,000 driving range. Like I say I mean it's not for 317 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,500 absolutely everybody some people will ya just completely love it. 318 00:16:16,700 --> 00:16:19,700 And definitely I mean I've played tournaments with it, I 319 00:16:19,708 --> 00:16:23,300 mean I loved it so much. I mean bearing in mind in I was 320 00:16:23,300 --> 00:16:27,300 super analytical and you know, paralysis by analysis mean that 321 00:16:27,300 --> 00:16:30,700 that was me and especially under So so I used to use it in 322 00:16:30,700 --> 00:16:33,200 practice and then in tournaments, I just committed 323 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,400 myself to stick into that process and not, you know, not 324 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,400 trying to control every part of my movement and it was 325 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,800 incredible. I really started to move more 326 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,500 athletically and enjoyed it. And in fact, somebody somebody 327 00:16:44,500 --> 00:16:46,900 at the weekend came over, somebody had never met came over 328 00:16:46,900 --> 00:16:50,600 and shook my hand and he said he bought my app like years ago and 329 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,000 he said the one thing he took from it was that drill and he 330 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,800 said I've enjoyed my game so much more ever since no doing 331 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,100 just that drill and he literally plays with it as a sum. 332 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:00,900 Guy never met before. That's amazing. 333 00:17:01,300 --> 00:17:02,800 Could you walk through it, step by step? 334 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,300 So someone could do it if they're just listening to this. 335 00:17:05,700 --> 00:17:08,099 Yeah, yeah. So this is called the flow drill 336 00:17:08,099 --> 00:17:10,800 and the aim is that, you know, you're standing behind the ball. 337 00:17:10,900 --> 00:17:14,200 I had no say, three three paces and you do all your thinking in 338 00:17:14,208 --> 00:17:16,900 your preparation there. So you're not being mindless, 339 00:17:16,900 --> 00:17:20,500 you're doing your shot planning, you're picking your Target, have 340 00:17:20,500 --> 00:17:23,000 your practice swing there and you know, in your practice ring, 341 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:27,900 have a maybe to swing thoughts but then align yourself behind 342 00:17:27,900 --> 00:17:30,500 the Hind. The line of the ball and the 343 00:17:30,500 --> 00:17:33,200 Target. And then once you commit to to 344 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:37,300 walking in, it's like putting your lead foot on a conveyor 345 00:17:37,300 --> 00:17:39,200 belt. It the thing is moving and 346 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,900 there's nothing was going to stop you now other than putting 347 00:17:41,900 --> 00:17:44,400 your feet in and setting the club moving. 348 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,100 So the big thing is they're not to worry too much about where 349 00:17:48,100 --> 00:17:49,900 you're aiming and your ball position Etc. 350 00:17:49,900 --> 00:17:54,000 Because that's that's now you know, creating all that internal 351 00:17:54,100 --> 00:17:57,000 checking and self-referencing, put your feet down, get 352 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,100 reasonably comfortable, and the moment that Club touches the 353 00:18:00,100 --> 00:18:02,300 ground, near the ball, you take it away and begin to swim. 354 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,900 What about how swing thoughts changed so much, you know, even 355 00:18:10,900 --> 00:18:13,100 high level players on tour etcetera? 356 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,300 You know, talk about using a lot of different swing thoughts. 357 00:18:16,700 --> 00:18:19,200 They don't seem to have much longevity of using the same 358 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,800 thought for, I don't know a year, right? 359 00:18:22,100 --> 00:18:24,300 Anecdotally? You don't hear that pretty much 360 00:18:24,300 --> 00:18:27,500 ever at least, I have it. Nobody will probably come back 361 00:18:27,500 --> 00:18:30,600 around once it, I mean, yeah, I mean, if it works, it works, if 362 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,100 it doesn't, if it works, it stays in the back, like a Patty 363 00:18:33,100 --> 00:18:36,100 was both it stays in the bag for a while and then gets forgotten 364 00:18:36,100 --> 00:18:39,300 and And then comes back again. I mean anecdotally. 365 00:18:39,300 --> 00:18:43,000 That is interesting though, mean all the information on not 366 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,000 thinking about your swing, and then there's a lot of that and 367 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,500 there's a lot of sports psychologists who do do suggest 368 00:18:47,500 --> 00:18:50,700 you don't think about your swing anecdotally, the tall players a 369 00:18:50,708 --> 00:18:52,800 lot of tour players, think, a lot about their swing. 370 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,900 I mean, I have it on on, fairly good information that Justin, 371 00:18:55,900 --> 00:18:59,100 Rose has 3 or 4 different swing thoughts on every swing. 372 00:18:59,500 --> 00:19:01,600 And in fact, you can see and its preparation', you know, the 373 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,500 amount of processing that goes through in the planning of his 374 00:19:04,500 --> 00:19:05,900 movement. It's a phenomenal. 375 00:19:06,300 --> 00:19:09,800 I saw an article with McIlroy who said that he needs to have 376 00:19:09,900 --> 00:19:12,100 at least a couple of Swing thoughts, if nothing else to 377 00:19:12,100 --> 00:19:15,200 keep him focused on the process and not so much on the, you 378 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,800 know, the results and where he is in the tournament and Etc. 379 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,100 So, yeah. Swing thoughts, do a do a lot of 380 00:19:20,108 --> 00:19:21,700 different things for different people? 381 00:19:21,700 --> 00:19:25,800 Whether it is a mechanical guide and literally a movement queue 382 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,500 or whether it's just a comfort and a distraction from other 383 00:19:29,500 --> 00:19:31,800 less helpful thoughts. Just curious on your 384 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:33,300 perspective. Why do you think this idea of 385 00:19:33,300 --> 00:19:36,500 you can't think about your golf swing has become so like It's 386 00:19:36,500 --> 00:19:40,800 like a sports site kind of Pop content that is spread so 387 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,600 rapidly and everybody kind of thinks is true. 388 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,900 I think because it can what I mean, firstly I want a very 389 00:19:46,900 --> 00:19:50,000 simple skill, I mean it's a pretty it's a pretty good way to 390 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,200 go. So for example puting the 391 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,800 mechanics are putting stroke are pretty simple, really? 392 00:19:55,100 --> 00:19:57,500 And in which case I would suggest don't think about your 393 00:19:57,500 --> 00:19:59,300 swing is that is a good piece of advice. 394 00:19:59,300 --> 00:20:02,700 Given that, you know, the task is that to judge the speed and 395 00:20:02,700 --> 00:20:05,000 the curve except you didn't that don't want to be thinking about 396 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,800 controlling your elbows and Etc. So yeah. 397 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,200 Well, none mechanically simple exercise. 398 00:20:10,300 --> 00:20:12,500 You want to be fully automatic, certainly something that is 399 00:20:12,500 --> 00:20:14,500 repetitive. So from a research point of 400 00:20:14,500 --> 00:20:17,400 view, you know, a lot of the research is done on a 6-foot 401 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,300 Putt in a lab that you hit, you know, 50 balls at a time. 402 00:20:20,300 --> 00:20:23,200 And then you do another 50 balls, you do want to be 403 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,100 completely automatic in that scenario. 404 00:20:25,100 --> 00:20:27,800 That's where the research is coming from, but it's not mean 405 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,900 that's not the same as hitting hitting a, you know, a 3-iron 406 00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:34,000 into into a crosswind. It was a bull, blow your feet. 407 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:35,200 Is it? I mean, that's an entirely 408 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,900 different Different tasks. So there's that there's the 409 00:20:38,900 --> 00:20:41,300 research which is, you know, a little bit unrealistic but also 410 00:20:41,300 --> 00:20:42,700 that experience we talked about earlier. 411 00:20:42,700 --> 00:20:46,100 I mean we've all played great Golf and look back and felt 412 00:20:46,100 --> 00:20:47,900 cracking. I was in that sense of complete 413 00:20:47,900 --> 00:20:50,800 flow where I didn't have to in have to think there was kind of 414 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,800 space and time and I was totally into the task, you know, and 415 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,400 that is flow. But you know as we mentioned 416 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,900 earlier, not thinking about your swing isn't going to get you 417 00:20:58,900 --> 00:21:01,300 into a state of flow. It is just part of flow that, 418 00:21:01,300 --> 00:21:02,800 you know, is obviously recognized. 419 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,500 I think that's the big thing. We play Great Golf. 420 00:21:05,500 --> 00:21:08,500 When we're, you know, No, so when we play golf, we often not 421 00:21:08,500 --> 00:21:11,600 thinking about how swing too much, but yeah, the reverse is 422 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,500 not true. So if someone's listening, they 423 00:21:14,500 --> 00:21:18,100 should try the flow drill and they should try out our familiar 424 00:21:18,100 --> 00:21:21,300 with vision 54, but like, in their book, be a player or their 425 00:21:21,300 --> 00:21:24,100 app, they have a ton of different cues, you know, are 426 00:21:24,100 --> 00:21:27,700 Concepts that you can go out and try as far as swing thoughts, 427 00:21:27,700 --> 00:21:31,100 which I think are just awesome and try to find, you know, 428 00:21:31,100 --> 00:21:33,600 something, there potentially that really strikes home for you 429 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,800 or gets you in a good place in any other kind of a Is that you 430 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,300 think people should take or well, I'm just going to sound 431 00:21:39,300 --> 00:21:41,300 the pressure. I mean it would be a really good 432 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,800 exercise just to be aware of how their swing thoughts are 433 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:46,200 changing when they're under pressure. 434 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,100 I mean, typically Under Pressure, we are likely to 435 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,800 control more think more and, you know, and protect. 436 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:57,100 So you know, it would be fairly normal to be more guided stiff, 437 00:21:57,300 --> 00:21:59,500 have more swing thoughts, under pressure and that's definitely a 438 00:21:59,508 --> 00:22:02,400 trend to try and back. Try and be more free-flowing and 439 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,700 more trusting as the as the pressure grows. 440 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,000 Hey, thank you so much for listening. 441 00:22:10,100 --> 00:22:14,200 You've got to check out what normal is up to he has some 442 00:22:14,300 --> 00:22:16,900 amazing coaching going on. He's kind of outside, the box is 443 00:22:16,900 --> 00:22:19,700 a little bit different than what everyone else is doing out 444 00:22:19,700 --> 00:22:21,800 there. And he has some online programs 445 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,500 and online coaching training, you should go check out that is 446 00:22:24,900 --> 00:22:28,600 really unique and it aligns with our kind of our mission and the 447 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,000 way that we view things here at Gulf science lab so if you 448 00:22:31,008 --> 00:22:33,700 enjoyed this podcast, go check it out. 449 00:22:33,700 --> 00:22:37,200 We have a link on the post along with the Discount to some of the 450 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,700 Dell entering that he offers if you're interested in that, it's 451 00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:42,600 a good deal, he's got a lot of a lot of value to offer here. 452 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,400 So head over to the post along with this episode and check out 453 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,700 what null has going on. If you're not, subscribe to the 454 00:22:48,708 --> 00:22:51,800 podcast, make sure to subscribe so you can catch all the 455 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,000 episodes. Every week right here, this 456 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,700 episode was edited, Mix A produced by just hit publish 457 00:22:58,700 --> 00:22:59,400 Productions.