1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,400 If you can dream it up, I tried it, not exaggerate. 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,960 I won the John Deere arm lock. I tried the belly putter, mallet 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,280 putters, blades, left-handed for a minute. 4 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:12,440 Honest to God, Cordy, you name it, I tried it, decided that I 5 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:15,000 would just out practice my yips, which was a mistake. 6 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,080 He text me out of the blue and he said, Lucas, have you thought 7 00:00:18,080 --> 00:00:19,920 about the long putter? I didn't know any better. 8 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,560 I didn't want to know anything. I just wanted to kind of figure 9 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,160 it out and make it look like Adam because his looks really 10 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,400 good and that's how it started. When Lucas Glover won 11 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,680 back-to-back weeks in 20 23 the Sweeper, the long putter went 12 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,640 from obscure to totally into the mainstream. 13 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:38,240 So I wanted to hear the whole story. 14 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,560 So I sat down with Lucas to learn why did he pick up a long 15 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:44,640 putter? What was the learning process 16 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,080 like? Tell us his technique and swing 17 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,920 thoughts and all the details of how he uses it and what he's 18 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,240 working on today. This is all part of our new 19 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,080 podcast season on alternative putting styles. 20 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,600 We're talking everything from the long part of the Sweeper to 21 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:00,440 Armlock and everything in between. 22 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,720 We're having on some amazing experts in the space. 23 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,280 Last week was Sam Hahn, the CEO of Lab Golf, who was kind enough 24 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,520 to make the intro to Lucas for today's episode. 25 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,120 So make sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts 26 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:17,720 on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, all those good places as this series 27 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,440 is really fascinating. It's a passion project of mine 28 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,640 as we dive into what's going on in this space of alternative 29 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:31,400 putting styles. I guess like take, take me back 30 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,480 through the styles of of putting that you have tried. 31 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,600 Let's talk about the, the evolution of, of how we got to 32 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:40,880 the, the sweeper. What, what do you remember the 33 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:45,240 the US Open that you won was a just normal blade putter, right? 34 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,400 Just normal grip everything. Yeah, everything. 35 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,920 So I'll just put it to you this way, if you can dream it up. 36 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,640 I tried it. Not exaggerating. 37 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:01,200 I did. I won the John Deere arm lock in 38 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:06,920 2021 and then I went away from that and then I went back to it. 39 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,120 I tried the belly putter when it was legal. 40 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:15,320 I tried mallet putters. I tried blades. 41 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,440 I tried left-handed for a minute. 42 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,120 Be honest to God, Cordy. You name it, I tried. 43 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:25,840 The the claw didn't stick, huh? I mean, everybody loves the claw 44 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,040 it seems like, but it. Turned the claw the the the claw 45 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,800 didn't do it for me because I my issue was getting the putter off 46 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,640 the ball, not flipping at it through the ball. 47 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:42,280 So I couldn't get the putter started consistently because of 48 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,480 my yips and because of the things I had going on. 49 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:56,000 And yeah, the the most success I had pre long putter, pre sweeper 50 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:59,080 broom, whatever we're going to decide to call it that makes it 51 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,200 sound cool because it's, you know, seems like the old man 52 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,440 way, but it's becoming cool. So I think we need a good name. 53 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:10,400 But I had the most success with the arm lock. 54 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:16,080 My issue with that was that I struggled mightily setting up 55 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:20,200 consistently to it because it had so much loft. 56 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,720 If the setup got off just a hair, I was all over the place. 57 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:31,040 But when the setup was good, consistent, that seemed to be 58 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,080 the way to go. And truth be told, if, if, if I 59 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,360 felt comfortable setting up that way, you know, consistently 60 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:42,840 again, I would probably use it because it was very effective. 61 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,280 Got it. So so the arm lock was your 62 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,480 favorite but the setup was an issue just because that much 63 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,280 aloft. Were you playing with what, like 64 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:54,800 6 or 7°? Yeah, I I didn't know at the 65 00:03:54,800 --> 00:04:00,880 time that I could I could get get it pretty neutral and not 66 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,400 have to fight all that loft. But I'd always been kind of a 67 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,640 pressie hands forward putter when it with a short putter. 68 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:14,080 And I liked the way that felt with the loft and with the arm 69 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,839 way up the head of it because it felt like I was hitting into 70 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:21,680 something like, you know, stroking it into the left arm as 71 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,400 opposed to the release that a lot of people talk about it. 72 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,800 But yes, the ball position got off or my eye line got off even 73 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,800 a fraction. It was very difficult to be 74 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,440 consistent. I feel like the a dress with the 75 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:40,480 longer putter has been easier to keep consistent. 76 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:44,200 Interesting. OK, so why was that just that 77 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,320 struggle of set up? You're like, I've got to try 78 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:47,840 something else different besides that. 79 00:04:47,840 --> 00:04:50,000 Did you go from armlock to the the sweeper? 80 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:51,480 Was that the? I did not. 81 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:57,640 I went from armlock to back to the short one and decided that I 82 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,240 would just out practice my yips, which was a mistake. 83 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:06,000 And then I had a putted after that. 84 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:11,760 I probably putted the best with a a mallet head with about two 85 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,400 inches of grip above my hands. That kind of counterbalance 86 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:20,360 thing finished third in Memphis a couple years ago with that. 87 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:27,640 But reality was it was a it wasn't the putter, it was my 88 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:33,400 brain and my body. And and that's what kind of led 89 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:37,480 me down the Let's try something even more drastic. 90 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:38,760 That's that's really interesting. 91 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,520 I bet I like what you said there that I tried to out practice my 92 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,560 yips and that's, that's such an interesting thought because 93 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:47,840 there's a lot of people which probably would say that like 94 00:05:47,840 --> 00:05:49,880 I'll just you can work through it. 95 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,320 What did what did you learn about that through this process? 96 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:54,720 Like you can't just work through it, right? 97 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,360 You cannot work it. No, it's a, it's a, it's an 98 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,800 illness, it's a sickness. It's a, it's a full body 99 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:09,000 reaction to a lot of things, whether it be fear or it is 100 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:10,360 fear. It's the main thing. 101 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,320 It's the you're scared to miss and what's going to happen if I 102 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,960 miss? And all of a sudden you're, 103 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,360 you're literally your central nervous system breaks down. 104 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:25,720 So once I was taught that by Jason Kuhn, who I've talked a 105 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,760 lot about Navy SEAL. And so, you know, taking it back 106 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,160 a step further, I did all the sports psychology, all of the 107 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:38,440 things that you would do to try to beat the UPS and eventually 108 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,960 it it came down to, all right, well, we're going to go 109 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,640 completely against the grain here and talk to talk to 110 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,200 somebody that actually had the UPS, just not in golf. 111 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,240 And that was a baseball player, former baseball player who would 112 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:55,680 help a lot of pitchers. And the best thing I learned 113 00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:00,560 from him and what he drilled into me, no pun intended, Navy 114 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:05,520 SEAL drill. But he said, Lucas, I don't know 115 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,320 why you think you're mentally weak and why you would ever 116 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,560 accept anybody telling you that. He goes, you're still on the PGA 117 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,680 Tour doing us at the highest level with this sickness. 118 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,240 And, and he didn't know anything about golf. 119 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,800 He goes, all I know is you're still out there doing it. 120 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,680 So it's time for you to switch this around and say, do you know 121 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:24,840 what? I'm actually very mentally 122 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,160 strong, but I'm still out here doing it because most people 123 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:31,200 would have quit. And once I understood that, it 124 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,200 kind of opened up my brain, opened up my mind to, all right, 125 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:38,520 how do I go from here since I do have this in me. 126 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:43,480 And understanding that allowed me to start working through with 127 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,520 him on all right, How do I actually beat this? 128 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,400 Because it is beatable. He proved it personally. 129 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,240 And then all of his baseball players that he work with proved 130 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,240 it. So yeah, it was a, it was a 131 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,120 little different way to go about it. 132 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:03,760 So I would say I was two to three weeks in with him working 133 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,240 on this and he had told me he goes, look, this isn't going to 134 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,480 be immediate. He goes, this might be a year 135 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,720 long process, this might be 8 weeks, it might be two years, I 136 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:16,840 don't know, he said, but it will work and it's just time. 137 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,320 Well, I'd struggled, struggled, struggled even working with him 138 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:25,120 on it, didn't give up on it. And Brad Faxon, who I'd worked 139 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,400 with on my putting before, he text me out of the blue and he 140 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:30,920 said, Lucas, have you thought about the long putter? 141 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:33,559 And I said, you know, Brad, I haven't. 142 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:35,720 I said, but I just ordered some left-handed ones. 143 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:42,320 This was in, this was I missed the PGA in 23, so this was 144 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,160 around the PGA of 2023. And he says, why don't you order 145 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:47,960 some long ones too? He said, I think that might 146 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,440 help. He and I said, all right, I 147 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,880 appreciate it. So I did and I thought about 148 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:56,520 thought about what Brad had said, thought about the 149 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,120 left-handed ones unordered and I thought about all right, who 150 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,040 have I seen putt nice with the long putter That kind of looks 151 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:06,640 like me, Paul or heights, you know, just the things and Adam 152 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,960 Scott came to mind. So got my manager in touch with 153 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,400 lab golf and so just send me Adam's putter. 154 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:14,320 He says, what do you mean what kind of specs? 155 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:16,480 I said no, no, no, no specs. I don't want to know anything. 156 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,360 Just send me Adam's putter. They said, all right, can we 157 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:20,560 check with him, make sure that's cool. 158 00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:23,080 I don't care. So they're basically copied 159 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:27,600 Adams and the long putters showed up before the left-handed 160 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:29,280 ones. So that's what I started trying 161 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:33,320 and had two weeks off and spent a lot of time in my garage in 162 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,000 front of a mirror and I just tried to stand there like Adam. 163 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,880 Honestly, I didn't know any better. 164 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,480 I didn't want to know anything. I just wanted to kind of figure 165 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,080 it out and make it look like Adam because his looks really 166 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,320 good and that's how it started. I love it. 167 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,400 I, I love the quote that you, you'd said, you know, you spent 168 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:53,600 10 days in your garage just figuring it out. 169 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,360 And then I think you went to the memorial right after the earth 170 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,800 or that or something like that. But like what, what did you do 171 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,840 for those 10 days in the garage? You said the mirror Like what? 172 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:03,760 What else did what? What were you doing in there? 173 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:10,600 Yeah, we, my wife has a, you know, body or a full size mirror 174 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:12,560 in the garage when she does her workouts. 175 00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:17,040 And I took that on a putting mat that I bought on Amazon and just 176 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,040 laid it out and got it square to the mat and said, all right, 177 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:21,840 well, I know what I want it to look like. 178 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,600 I kind of want to mirror what Adam does and then I'll make it 179 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,240 my own once I kind of get the baseline. 180 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,760 And I just just kind of figured out where to hold my arm, which 181 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:33,640 grip felt the best with the bottom hand? 182 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:37,960 And do you know, does 90° make with my left arm make the putter 183 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,840 go back straight or, you know, just just all those things. 184 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:44,840 It was a couple hours a day in the garage and I didn't, I don't 185 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,680 even think I went out and hit a putt with it for four or five 186 00:10:47,680 --> 00:10:49,480 days. I just trying to figure it out 187 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:54,120 in there. And and then, you know, the the 188 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,600 part about Memorial, I said, well, if this is going to work, 189 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:01,480 I'm going to take it there first because those might be outside 190 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,000 of Augusta, some of the more penal greens we play. 191 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:09,920 And you know, I I putted nice. I actually tripled my last told 192 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,600 to miss the cut, believe it or not, but putted beautifully. 193 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,400 Very unlike me to hit it bad to miss a cut. 194 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:22,800 But but that time in the garage, just it, it enabled me to make 195 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:28,280 something my own. And you know, this is this is 196 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:32,720 probably deeper than it should be, but I was and I didn't know 197 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,360 it at the time, but I was rewiring my brain for a 198 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:39,840 different skill. So four or five days into that 199 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:44,160 process, I texted Jason Kuhn. I said, hey, got this long 200 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,840 putter kind of feeling good. What do you think? 201 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:49,920 Should I keep going down this road? 202 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:51,680 Couple it with what you and I've been doing. 203 00:11:51,680 --> 00:11:55,560 And he text me right back. He goes, dude, this might be the 204 00:11:55,560 --> 00:11:58,040 ticket that makes this thing go by a lot quicker. 205 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,320 And of course, I said, all right, why is that? 206 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:04,640 He said new new motor skill, completely new skill for your 207 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:06,400 brain. He goes, whatever you've been 208 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,600 doing, just keep piling on that because you're you're rewiring 209 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,160 your brain, you're rewiring your central nervous system. 210 00:12:12,680 --> 00:12:15,360 I was like, Dang, this is deeper than I wanted it to be. 211 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:21,240 But if he thinks this could speed this up and I just told 212 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,600 him what I've been doing and he said, I think this could really 213 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:28,560 could really could work and and speed up what you and I've been 214 00:12:28,560 --> 00:12:30,520 working on off the courses. Cool. 215 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:36,320 So took it to memorial, putted Drake and and then that Monday 216 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,640 after memorial I missed that short one to the miss the US 217 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:44,200 Open and it I don't know how it looked on TV because I don't 218 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,680 ever go back and watch myself. But it didn't feel Yippy. 219 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:53,640 I just missed it and walking back to the car with Tommy, my 220 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:58,440 caddy and my dad and my dad came up to to support me through this 221 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,320 a little bit that summer. And we were walking back to the 222 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:05,840 car pretty long walk for 300 yard par 4. 223 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:10,720 It felt like 900 yards. But Tommy grabbed me and he 224 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,960 said, you know, he said wouldn't have been here with the other 225 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:18,160 putter. And my dad said who doesn't know 226 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,480 golf or care, He just loves me. He just said, look to me like 227 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:23,760 you just missed it. I went yeah, pretty much. 228 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:26,880 And he said did it feel like the old way I got? 229 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,160 No. And that was the first time I 230 00:13:30,680 --> 00:13:34,000 noticed that. You know, sometimes you just 231 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,800 miss them. But it wasn't because I couldn't 232 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:39,880 make a stroke. I just missed a pot. 233 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,400 You know, it's almost dark and dreams were bumpy. 234 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:46,800 And I hit a bad pot, big deal. And went from there to Canada 235 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,560 and had the best finish I'd had in months with the long putter 236 00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:54,240 and coming off of that crappy miss to miss the US Open and or 237 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:55,560 keep the playoffs going. I should say. 238 00:13:55,560 --> 00:13:59,320 I don't know if I'd have made it, maybe not, but but that was 239 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,240 a turning point that looked at at that point looked like 240 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,840 something negative. But because it felt like I was 241 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,360 actually a golfer that just missed a short putt instead of a 242 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,400 golfer with the UPS. Huge, huge, huge turn around. 243 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:17,200 And I believe because of the broom, the weight of it, the way 244 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,440 I was able to get the putter off the ball, that started in 245 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:25,160 graining itself and having that acceptance of a hit, a bad putt, 246 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:26,760 it's going to happen. It's going to happen again. 247 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:31,960 And but it didn't feel, you know, it wasn't Yippie. 248 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,480 And that was that turned the page for me with that. 249 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,480 And I can start accepting this in those putts. 250 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,400 So the sweeper broom, whatever we're calling it, the way it 251 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,920 makes me get the putter going because of the weight, because 252 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:51,880 of the way I hold it hard for me to do what I was doing poorly 253 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,480 with the short putter armlock or any of that. 254 00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:00,800 So tying it in with all that stuff said about the yips and 255 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,920 all that, the makeup of the broom, the way I have to hold 256 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:07,320 it, the weight of it enables me to get the putter going off the 257 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,320 ball. Well IA 100% agree with what you 258 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,400 said earlier. Like it is a new skill. 259 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,920 I think like I agree, like it it is. 260 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,760 It's not the same putting as as we have done for years before 261 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,920 and really does take some time to figure it out. 262 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:26,360 I didn't go as intense as intense as you every day, but I 263 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,960 think I over 4-4 weeks just kind of in the house, you know, just 264 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:33,760 kind of getting up from sitting at the office and hit some putts 265 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,320 for a while. You eventually kind of figure it 266 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:37,880 out and it's because it's totally different. 267 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:39,440 What what for you is the hardest? 268 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,760 Like I remember just like watching that thing when I tried 269 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,360 to take it back and it at first like your your path is just all 270 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,160 over the place because you can't control it when you take it 100. 271 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:51,440 Percent. What for you was it like the 272 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:53,480 learning process like of figuring it out? 273 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,200 That no Cordy that's dead on it the first time you pick it up 274 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,560 and even anybody now hey look, just let me hold that thing and 275 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:03,600 that and you know it looks like the looks like a seismograph, 276 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:08,920 you know but yeah, it was that way for me and then you know 277 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:10,920 that was what I was talking about kind of in the garage is 278 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:12,240 all right. How do I hold my arm? 279 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,440 How do I grip it? How do I put my shoulders all of 280 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:19,440 those things to get it on the get it going off the ball 281 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,760 consistently. And then what I had to kind of 282 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:28,040 grab and grab hold of was all right, so I got center shaft, I 283 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,760 got no torque. I got all of these things. 284 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,960 So do I have to make the Potter swing? 285 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:36,720 Is it supposed to open and close? 286 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:38,440 What it what is this thing supposed to do? 287 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,320 And at the time I had done no research on lab. 288 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,320 I didn't talk to their Rep. I don't want to know anything 289 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:47,560 until I started learning. So once I got comfortable with 290 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:52,440 my address and limited that wave backstroke you were talking 291 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:56,560 about that everybody seems to do the first time they take a 292 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,280 stroke with it is then I texted the Rep. 293 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,240 I had his number from ordering the putter and all that texted 294 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:08,480 him and said, hey, just simple stands for pop simplest answer 295 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,520 possible. Am I supposed to be arcing this 296 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:15,520 thing or straight back straight through or what he said, well, 297 00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:18,040 lab stands for lie angle balance. 298 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,960 So you take the stroke and it's supposed to arc for you because 299 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:27,119 you only have he said you're as upright as legally possible, so 300 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:31,480 it's going to arc the least. And I was always kind of a arcor 301 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,120 anyway with the short putter, so that probably took the most for 302 00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:37,480 me, is that I don't have to worry about the face. 303 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,680 The putter is designed and if it's fitted to you, is designed 304 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:46,760 to arc on its own. I've never really thought about 305 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:48,720 that, never really had to think about that. 306 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:53,960 So it was a lot less arc than what I've been working on for 307 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,640 years with the short putter. What? 308 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,840 What I have enjoyed the most, like, so like I, I was in the 309 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,280 wave of people that got broomsticks after you, after you 310 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,720 went on your run. I, when I was talking to Sam, I 311 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:10,080 think he said they sold more broomsticks in, or they sold 10 312 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,840 times more broomsticks in the day after that win than the 313 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,560 whole year combined. So I think hands up I I might 314 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,400 have been part of that. But I see it back there. 315 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:21,160 I know I I brought it in the back. 316 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:22,720 That was intentional. There you go. 317 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,400 One of the things that I find unique about like how you do it 318 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:31,520 and then I modelled was how low you put your right arm and how 319 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,760 it just kind of like my camera's not not helping us out here, but 320 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:39,640 like you just hang it way down. Actually, I had Liam over at 321 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:41,440 lab. I was like, hey, I'm I'm like 322 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,000 off the grip on the bottom of this. 323 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,000 He move it down. So he moved it down because like 324 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,120 one, that's one of the things I noticed when you do it is like 325 00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:50,840 you're just your right arm is just you just hang it and you 326 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,320 just kind of like it becomes real simple. 327 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,600 Is that if you tell us about kind of like your setup and and 328 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,920 maybe some more details what you think about that, like what that 329 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,480 triggers for you? Yeah, yeah, that was that came 330 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:07,280 from my goofy, the way I kind of throw my right arm on it, that 331 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:12,480 big motion so and wherever it wherever it went is where I 332 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,560 wanted it to go. And it just so happened it went 333 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,120 way down on the grip because I don't know, maybe at the time or 334 00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:20,880 maybe it's too short for me. If you did it the perfect way, I 335 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:26,040 don't know, but so my thought was how my arm came onto the 336 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:31,440 putter from whatever hip higher. However I do, it is the same 337 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:36,400 rhythm I want the backstroke to have so you can see it when I 338 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,160 put my arm on it. I want to do it with a, with a, 339 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:43,040 with it, with intention. And it's it's the rhythm I want 340 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:47,080 the backstroke to have. I wanted something rhythmical in 341 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:53,200 my brain when I got ready to go. So originally and I'm work going 342 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,600 to be working on this this offseason is because I got away 343 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,080 from it. When I get that putter on, when 344 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,680 I finally get the putter in my hand, I want to go. 345 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:06,480 I did that very well in 23 into 23 and going into 24 and I got 346 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,240 away from it a little bit. I got a little static over it, 347 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,640 which I don't like. But to answer your question the 348 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,160 way. The reason I or how I decided 349 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,600 the reason I ended up dripping it way down there is because 350 00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:22,000 that's just where my arm went when it felt the best. 351 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,960 When I got my set up with my left hand, my top hand, when I 352 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,560 got it set well, I was bent over a little bit. 353 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,680 I'd always been kind of a hunter anyway when I was comfortable 354 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,920 and then wherever that right hand went was was just where it 355 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,400 ended up. And I'm, I'm right on the rubber 356 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:41,720 and like you said, if you got even down further, you know, you 357 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,200 might get on the, the graphite or whatever those shafts are 358 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,560 made out of. But that's just where I ended 359 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,600 up. But that was kind of a mental 360 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,640 and almost a trigger for me was once my hand got on there out or 361 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,680 when my hand started. That's the rhythm I wanted the 362 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,640 backstroke to have. And as soon as it touched, I 363 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:05,640 wanted to go in my stroke that has slowed down in the last 18 364 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:07,280 months and I I don't really like that. 365 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,320 So that'll be an offseason project is to get going again as 366 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:12,240 as soon as I get that hand on there. 367 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:14,920 Interesting. Is that more of the like, hey, I 368 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:16,960 saw it. I visualized that it would just 369 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:18,320 work. We're going to hit the punt 370 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,080 right away. Yeah, I just, I think, and this 371 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,480 is something I learned from facts is, is we, we always want 372 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,440 to keep moving. We always want to be an athlete. 373 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:31,320 We always want to get static. And getting static is what is 374 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,480 what would cause my poor backstrokes when I had the yips. 375 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,720 And even now it's not yippie, but it does get off rhythm when 376 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,920 I stand over it too long. And that's just a personal 377 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,600 thing. I want when that hand gets on 378 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,960 there, I want the eyes to come back and I want to flow off the 379 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:51,320 ball a little bit of that Rotella stuff, you know, when I, 380 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,320 you know, I almost start the backstroke when the eyes are 381 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,760 still out there a little bit. So we don't get back here on the 382 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,480 ball and learn not from facts. You know, he showed me 383 00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:01,240 originally. He showed me. 384 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:02,880 He goes, all right, this is you hitting a pitch. 385 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,600 I never stopped. Everything went eyes or my feet 386 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,760 were moving or something was all at hands. 387 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,720 Something was always moving. Full swing, same thing. 388 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,320 I'm always fidgeting, moving. He goes, let's not stop on a 389 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,080 putt. You know, you do all this so 390 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,000 athletically with everything else in your game. 391 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,800 And that was a good lesson. I think that's a good lesson for 392 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,120 everybody. You know, the, the putting 393 00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:27,200 strokes, just a small stroke, you know, if you're a good 394 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,720 pitcher or a good wedge player, a good driver of the ball. 395 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,560 Let's look at what you do there and try to mirror that you're 396 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,920 putting and, and fax is big on that with all of his, his, his 397 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:41,680 students and people he helps. And some really cool that that I 398 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,560 can't put in with my putting. And, and I've gotten away from 399 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:49,120 it, unfortunately, but I've had some time to reflect and and 400 00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:51,600 look at some things starting this offseason and we'll work on 401 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,080 that a lot. All right, I I got to go deep. 402 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:55,880 You you've intrigued me too much now. 403 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,440 OK, so do you, you visualize behind the the ball. 404 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,760 Are you like seeing the line? And then are you doing practice 405 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,560 strokes behind or right before you hit? 406 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,080 And they're like, what's how do you how do you do a whole pre 407 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:07,960 show routine? So you're ready to just go? 408 00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:10,120 Yeah. So I'll use the line on the ball 409 00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:16,560 and I'm trying to, you know, if it's a left edge putt, I'm going 410 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,200 to pick out something right in front of my ball that's on the 411 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,360 left edge. Easier to line your ball up that 412 00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:25,200 way, right? So I double check all that, make 413 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:26,640 sure it's lined up where we want it. 414 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:31,200 Sometimes Tommy, my caddy help, sometimes it's on me, you know, 415 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,800 just depends. And then I kind of went away 416 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,720 from practice strokes with Jason. 417 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,680 We we figured out that time was my enemy. 418 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,960 You know, I'm standing up there and taking practice strokes and, 419 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,000 you know, the less thinking, the better type situation. 420 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,760 So it kind of went away from practice strokes. 421 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:54,680 And I always put the putter down with my right hand and then get 422 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,840 the left hand on there. And then yeah, take, take the 423 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,320 line. I'm my, my, my line on my ball 424 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,520 and I chase it down the line to the target. 425 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,920 And then, you know, by the time the eyes get back, I want to be 426 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,360 gone with the backstroke. So yeah, I'm visualizing from 427 00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:11,960 behind. I'm visualizing the break of the 428 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,520 putt, seeing it go in, you know, if it's a left edge putt and 429 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,240 it's probably going in at 637 o'clock on a clock. 430 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,960 I tried to do that a little bit too, to get more visual. 431 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,600 And then, then, yeah, I'm chasing. 432 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,600 I'm tracing the line on the ball, down the target line. 433 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,600 And then when I come back, I'll get back. 434 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,680 I want to be gone in the backstroke and you know, keep 435 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,480 your butt in your neck still and hope it goes in. 436 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:44,640 What what feels work for you like I've noticed that if I kind 437 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,640 of forget to think about shoulders and back and trunk 438 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,200 that I can get real. Armsie, David Orr was talking 439 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:56,040 about driving with your lead hand or do not. 440 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,120 What? What are some things for you? 441 00:24:58,120 --> 00:24:59,640 Like what? What are some thoughts that you 442 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:01,120 think about that have been helpful? 443 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:06,240 So when I finally got comfortable with this putter, I 444 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,400 started asking some questions. I started asked Adam a couple 445 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,440 things, asked Henrik Norlander, who bounced around back and 446 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,760 forth with it and actually watch some videos of Scott McCarron 447 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,720 and things I found on YouTube and different stuff. 448 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:28,560 So for me, I was always a little bit of a cock in the in the 449 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,880 backstroke and then hold kind of the old way of putting is how I 450 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,560 grew up putting. And you know, if, if fax had it 451 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,320 his way that that that'd be how I putt because that's how he 452 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,360 likes to teach and all that. But you get somebody with the 453 00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:43,160 UPS that's got a little of this in there. 454 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:44,680 Guess what? It let's go pretty quick. 455 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:50,880 So, so for me, I found that to engage my shoulders and to 456 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,280 engage everything in my stroke, the best thing for me to do was 457 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:59,760 use this to trace the line up. So when I get set, I want this 458 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,440 left arm at 90° to my target because that enables me to get 459 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,840 the putter going back straight and then the technology of the 460 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,920 blade takes over. So I feel like, and I practice a 461 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,360 lot on the chalk line straight putt when I'm working on my 462 00:26:12,360 --> 00:26:16,080 stroke and I feel like my left elbow literally traces the chalk 463 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,680 line. And if that happens, my 464 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,240 shoulders are engaged, my back's engaged, and then I don't get so 465 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,720 handsy or armsy as you said. So it was explained to me early 466 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,840 on that there's really two ways to to putt with a long putter. 467 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,440 And it's very shoulder, very body like you were saying, or 468 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,240 it's very, or like I was saying a second ago, or it's very feely 469 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:42,440 with the right hand, you know, like a paintbrush almost like 470 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:47,440 David maybe talked about. But for me, I didn't like the 471 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,680 right hand involved as much. I wanted to try to eliminate 472 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,360 that probably because of some prior issues that I had. 473 00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:01,240 And so for me, it was just this, this elbow kind of drove the bus 474 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,880 and that enabled everything else to be as one right hand just 475 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:10,280 kind of along for the ride. And that's kind of the way I did 476 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:11,640 it. Not saying the other ways wrong. 477 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,080 It was just a personal thing. I know, I know a lot of guys 478 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,320 that that use this and feel like they're they're painting the top 479 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,720 of the grass, you know, underneath the ball and it works 480 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,800 beautifully. I could see, I do actually feel 481 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,440 that on long putt, really long ones where you got to give it a 482 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,240 hit. But but for the most part, I'm 483 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,080 trying to paint with this left elbow, paint that line with the 484 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:34,120 left elbow. Excuse me? 485 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,240 Yeah, no, I mean, most of us have switched to this for those 486 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:42,440 short and mid putts, right. And it seems like a lot of the 487 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,880 advantage of that can be when you take your hands out of it 488 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,720 and you just can focus on big muscles, right. 489 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,560 So I love that. Like, yeah, your swing thought 490 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,920 is just I've got my elbow, I've got my line and this is all I 491 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,240 got to think about And like, that's it, right? 492 00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,680 That's. That's one of those, yeah, I 493 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,080 think one of those videos, I was talking about it, my Karen 494 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,680 talked about this triangle, the the triangle that your arm makes 495 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:07,520 once you have it up here. And he said that's your engine 496 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,960 or that's the power source, and that's what moves it and 497 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:11,960 controls it. And I really liked that. 498 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,520 I really liked that thought. But and like I said, I took some 499 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,760 things I've noticed from Adam and and chatting with him. 500 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,600 I took some things from Scott from videos and, you know, watch 501 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:25,200 Bernhard. And then you got to make 502 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,720 everything your own, especially, you know, putting still in art, 503 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:30,840 as much science as there is to it is still art. 504 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:36,960 And and you know, there's people to copy that that, but it's 505 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,800 still got to be you because, you know, I'm not Adam, Adam's not 506 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,240 Scott Scott's not burn hard, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. 507 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,040 But making something your own is, is how you really, really 508 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,080 fine tune something because you're the only one that can 509 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:50,440 feel it. You're the only one that knows 510 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,080 what it feels like inside you. You know, I'm fighting that 511 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,640 right now with my daughter. She's a softball player and I'm 512 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,880 watching her struggle and and have a hard time hitting. 513 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,640 She's in a slump. Well, I know now not just tell 514 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,640 her what I see. Instead, ask her, Hey, what are 515 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,280 you feeling up there? And she's the only one that 516 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,200 knows that. And she really can't even put it 517 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:10,880 into words. Like, I couldn't sit here and 518 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,320 tell you what I felt over that PUD in Greensboro and why it 519 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,720 went in or why it didn't. I just did it and I reacted. 520 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,640 And that's what all of us as athletes want to get to, right 521 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,040 is I can't tell you, Cordy, because I'm just reacting 522 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,600 because I'm athletic and this is what I've trained to do. 523 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:30,440 Well, reality is we're so in our bodies and so in our heads that, 524 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,280 oh, well, I, you know, my right hand was an inch this way and my 525 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,240 elbow is too far out and that's not reacting. 526 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,960 So it's kind of what I've learned the most is to make, to 527 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,360 get over a hump the OR did to get something new in play. 528 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,240 It's got to be your own. You can take pieces from people, 529 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,760 but reality is this, this is Lucas's way, this Cordy's way, 530 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,280 this is Adam's way. And, you know, then we fine tune 531 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:55,960 it. I love it. 532 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,240 I love it. Did did your mindset, I mean, it 533 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,800 had to have changed. That 23 season was probably 534 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:02,480 really stark, right? Like was the beginning of the 535 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,760 year, your mindset over the ball going from like, hey, I hope I 536 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:08,840 don't miss this. Then toward the end of the year, 537 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,280 like, hey, there's a cool opportunity to to make it. 538 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,360 Was it like that Stark of a mind? 539 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:20,240 It literally went from I'm scared to death to putt that 540 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,160 this is bringing me down. This is going to cost me my job 541 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,960 and my career to buy. The summer of 23 I was like, I 542 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:31,200 have a weapon and I'm going to do some shit. 543 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:37,000 And I mean that literally. It was fun to walk onto the 544 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:41,080 putting green. It was fun to hit at 20 feet and 545 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,040 have a putt I could make instead of a putt. 546 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:47,560 I thought I was going to three putt honestly, that it it went 547 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,400 it yeah, it was that stark. I mean black and white It was. 548 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,880 I'm scared to death in February and I'm probably going three put 549 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:58,040 after I just hit this 5 iron from 2/10/12 feet to I just hit 550 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,720 a crappy 8 iron to 23 feet. But I'm probably going to make 551 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,160 this thing, and literally, that's how it was. 552 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,400 I love it. I I mean, it's cool and the the 553 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:07,920 strokes gained numbers backed it up. 554 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:09,560 It was fun. I was before we were, we were 555 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,880 talking, I was scrolling through your strokes gained putting and 556 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,640 then just that season as well and kind of like the results and 557 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,280 stuff. And it's it's fun to look at 558 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,520 like such a like, you know, to look at at and you like your 559 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,560 season and that and how drastic something like this can change 560 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,560 like it. It's really interesting how how 561 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:27,840 that you know, like how it happened. 562 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,960 Yeah, it was. Yeah, I saw a couple go in and I 563 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,040 missed some short ones that weren't the yips. 564 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,280 And I was like, Oh my, I'm just a golfer again. 565 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,640 And it was like this thing just went from a knot to open my 566 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:43,880 head. I'm pointing at my head. 567 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,600 It was just it, it was a knot up there. 568 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,360 And then, oh, I mean, Steve Stricker missed A4 footer one 569 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:51,480 time. I saw it on TV. 570 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,360 That happens to everybody you know and that it just my mind 571 00:31:55,360 --> 00:32:02,080 just went from a closed mess of crud to wide open and accepting 572 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,520 and like I can still do this. What do you think is your 573 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,200 prediction of the next, like, I don't know, three to five years? 574 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:14,280 Do you think we're going to see more people using these on on 575 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:15,920 tour? Like right now I think there's 576 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:20,320 there's probably like, I don't know, 5:00-ish kind of out 577 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:21,360 there. Do you think this is going to 578 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,280 grow and and kind of we're going to see more of it or just kind 579 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,280 of stay the same? I think, I think you'll see 580 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,320 more. I think you'll see more. 581 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,840 And for only one reason, and this, this is very awful to say, 582 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:41,360 but we're playing for so much money now and it is so big and 583 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:46,400 important that I think guys are going to struggle more with the 584 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,160 short putts and getting the ball in the hole because of how much 585 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:51,960 it means now. I think it'll be more of a 586 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,600 mental thing than a than a, than a physical thing. 587 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,560 And now we're down to 100 cards a year. 588 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:03,160 It's going to be so much more important and people are going 589 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,440 to think it's the end of the world and try really, really 590 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,600 hard. And I think eventually we're 591 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,960 going to see guys go into it for nerves because of those things. 592 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,360 I really do know that. That's fascinating. 593 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,240 Have you, have you noticed more and more people asking you about 594 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:24,080 it like. Yeah, yeah, I'll get a text or 595 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:29,680 two a week from a current player or a guy trying to make it. 596 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,200 Hey, got your number from so and so. 597 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,640 Did this help you more mentally or physically or? 598 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,120 I get asked for Jason Koons number more than anybody, which 599 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,280 tells me that some a lot of guys, you know, everybody's 600 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,600 fighting something, you know, every, everybody, every person, 601 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,640 much less every golfer. But I think a lot of people are 602 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:55,520 now open in their minds to the fact that I might, I might be 603 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,320 really good at something, but my mind's keeping me from being 604 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,320 good at it. And I think a lot of people 605 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,280 might be shifting over to a different type of psychology. 606 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,600 But I get a lot of questions about Jason and Sean, his 607 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,520 business partner. And then I get by half as many 608 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,280 questions about the long putter and how it helped me and what 609 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,040 was the hardest thing to change. And I had one guy asked me, you 610 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,480 know, how'd you get over? You know, the look, I was like, 611 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,320 what you mean the look? You know, you, you know, that 612 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,960 doesn't look cool. I was like, I don't care when 613 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,520 the whole man, you know, stuff like that. 614 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,040 But yeah, I get a lot of questions and I probably get 615 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,960 more because I'm almost 46 instead of almost 26 or 36 616 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,080 because it's kind of the grandpa out there. 617 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,080 But yeah, I get asked a lot about it. 618 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,760 What, What's your what's your typical reply? 619 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:46,000 What, what? What does that look like? 620 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,440 What do you text back? Try it out. 621 00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:48,880 Just get one. See what happens. 622 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,040 Just the just the truth, you know, just the truth. 623 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,719 They they're usually pretty pointed questions like what was 624 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,440 the hardest thing for you to learn set up, you know, where, 625 00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:58,760 where do I want everything to be? 626 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:03,320 And and they, you know, I get a lot of a lot of these younger 627 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,720 guys, they're all into the weight and why? 628 00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:07,280 And I don't even know all that I said. 629 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:08,720 I don't even know what it weighs, man. 630 00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:12,800 I know it's like half a degree legal on the upright scale and 631 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,720 it's the length of my driver. Other than that, I don't really 632 00:35:15,720 --> 00:35:20,560 know. But I just, I just, you know, 633 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,960 tell them what my experience just truthfully and how it 634 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:26,720 helped me physically and mentally. 635 00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:31,240 And, you know, if I see them two weeks later with one, I'll 636 00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:33,080 saunter over and go. It looks good, man. 637 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,200 If I don't like, they didn't like it, whatever. 638 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,880 So what? What's the most common, like 639 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,840 advice or lesson you give to someone when you go over and 640 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:43,640 you'd see that they're trying it out? 641 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,760 Like what's the most common, like little feedback that you 642 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,360 give to people? So I just, I don't say, I don't 643 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,000 say anything. And unless they ask, if they 644 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,120 ask, I'll, I'll tell them my experience or what I think or 645 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,360 feel. And, and, and it's not like I'm 646 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,160 all of a sudden, you know, Bobby Locke with this long putter, you 647 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:00,720 know what I mean? Don't. 648 00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:02,640 Let's look at my stats. The last year and a half. 649 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:06,760 It hadn't been great, but I know what it should look like and 650 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,960 what it should feel like. And sometimes it's do as I say, 651 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,840 not as I do type thing, but yeah, I just, I just tell them I 652 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:18,720 feel and my experience and, and how I how I got into it and how 653 00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:22,440 I how I feel the best with it. And, you know, it's kind of like 654 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,560 Hendrick told me he goes, oh, this is what worked for me and 655 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:25,720 I'm not going to say it works for you. 656 00:36:25,720 --> 00:36:27,000 And he don't even use it anymore. 657 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,320 So I mean, it's a big deal. But yeah, just tidbits, you 658 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,920 know, you take some things from different people and apply it, 659 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,200 and if it works, you you add to it. 660 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,240 If it doesn't, you toss it out. It's like, you know, it's like 661 00:36:37,240 --> 00:36:39,320 getting a full swing lesson. Some feels work, some don't. 662 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,680 So I guess your advice then, anybody that's felt a bit of 663 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,400 twitchiness in a hand, for me, it was my right hand. 664 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,200 I can get a little little twitchy, you know, like I always 665 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,040 say, like if you put me in a you know, if we're hanging out and 666 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,760 I'm just hitting putts like I can, I can look great, you know, 667 00:36:56,240 --> 00:37:00,640 But then if you you put me in a tournament, it doesn't look 668 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,600 great suddenly like it is. Would you say like if if you 669 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:07,000 maybe relate with that, you should hey, just do it. 670 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,920 Just try something fit, learn a new skill like this. 671 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,200 This hugely help you. Yeah, 100%. 672 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,880 You're just teaching your brain and your body something new. 673 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:20,920 And if you have any twitchiness, it's because of something deep 674 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:25,720 down that's bothering you or fear or, you know, whatever it 675 00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:27,600 may be. And yeah, teaching your brain a 676 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,320 new motor skill, rewire your central nervous system, rewires 677 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,200 your brain and releases your nervous system. 678 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,960 And I'm not saying the long putters for only people that 679 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,560 have a twitch or have yips. I mean, they work better for 680 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,120 people that don't have any issues. 681 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:48,600 Some people just like them better and just just matter what 682 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,760 you like or don't like. But but for those people that do 683 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:57,080 have yippee characteristics, absolutely the weight of it and 684 00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,680 the new completely new motor skill and the fact that it makes 685 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,240 you practice because you're not going to take a long putter out 686 00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:06,280 the first time and the member guest or at the masters or you 687 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,600 know, it's Harbour Town, you're going to practice. 688 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,760 And that's, you know, I always say that it's like, you know, 689 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:13,920 how to make a tour play or practice as you give him a new 690 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,560 club, you know, they're going to go hit it, make sure it works 691 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,240 well putter especially. But and I found that it was fun 692 00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:22,760 to go practice putting again because I was teaching myself 693 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:24,640 something new. And I think there's a lot of 694 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:26,880 value in that. I, I couldn't agree more. 695 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,440 It, it made like my offseason where I picked it up just a 696 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,280 blast, right? It's so fun to learn a new 697 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:33,640 skill. Try all these things out. 698 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,480 So give us a peek into your offseason. 699 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,560 Then you're, you're working on your timing and adding rhythm in 700 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:41,960 like what? Give give us a bit of a the 701 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,840 practice plan for for putting like how, if, what are you doing 702 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,800 just and what can we maybe learn from your from your plan? 703 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:56,360 I have not hit a shot or a putt since the Sunday of BMW. 704 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,960 So what? Whenever that was, yeah. 705 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,360 But I will, I will slowly start getting back into it soon. 706 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:10,920 And I have one of the new Lab Oz putters, the more rounded mallet 707 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:16,800 that I'm very intrigued by with the steel insert should get the 708 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,960 ball coming off a little faster, which I think could help me with 709 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,280 my speed. But before any of that'll 710 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:28,560 matter, since I haven't done much in the past few months, I 711 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:32,840 will go hard with a dress. How far I'm away from the ball. 712 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:37,360 I was over it before anything else. 713 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:41,440 And you know, on tour instructors, Jason Bale, my 714 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:45,240 teacher, his line is nobody's ever played worse from setting 715 00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:50,000 up better. And so that'll be the First 716 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,680 things first thing first with my putting short game, full swing, 717 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,720 everything is we'll start with setup, make sure that's dialed 718 00:39:56,720 --> 00:39:58,800 in because everything feeds off of that. 719 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,240 So for me, it'll probably be in the garage. 720 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:03,440 It's still hot as hell down here. 721 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:10,640 So be in the garage a little bit and work on a dress and make 722 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,440 sure that's dialed. And then when that's set, then 723 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,200 I'll go fiddle around with this new putter and. 724 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:17,240 See what it's like? I'm excited. 725 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,120 I love it for for a dress for you. 726 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:24,480 So eyes over ball, elbow at Target, Anything else that 727 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:25,680 you're looking for, there's that. 728 00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:29,160 Yeah, I'm like a driver ball position just inside my left 729 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:33,480 heel. And when I putted my best with 730 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,520 the long putter, for whatever reason, I was slightly over the 731 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:42,040 ball with my eyes. I've tried to figure out if it's 732 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,280 because I'm so right eye dominant, but then I get turned 733 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:47,200 around and confused. So I stopped thinking about it 734 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,920 that way. But I know when I was in Memphis 735 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:54,440 and I had somebody take a video down the line, Memphis and 23 736 00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,400 those two weeks, I put it the best ever put it in my life. 737 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,600 I was slightly on the outside of the ball with my eyes. 738 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:06,200 So I'm going to try to get back there and you know, I make sure 739 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:10,520 this left wrist is flat, make sure my elbows down the line and 740 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,840 then I just paint the paint the line on my ball with my with my 741 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,120 elbow and that putter path is really nice. 742 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,120 So that'll be what I focus on. I like it. 743 00:41:19,240 --> 00:41:21,360 I like it. This is so fun. 744 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:23,440 I think it's so interesting because they're they're guys 745 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,160 that paved the way like Adam, right? 746 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:28,440 Like he was kind of there, but then you were the the catalyst 747 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,640 that that shot this up into mainstream. 748 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,480 I mean, who would it, would you ever have guessed that you'd be 749 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,560 the, the catalyst for a new kind of putting method? 750 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,120 Just honestly like, and now guys at my club like, you know, there 751 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,680 are 5 or 6 guys at my club that do this and there was none 752 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:44,080 before, right? There's no one. 753 00:41:44,720 --> 00:41:47,440 Yeah, of course. Well, I will say one piece of 754 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,920 advice, especially if it's a lab is get fitted. 755 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:54,480 Just don't buy it off the shelf because the the labs, they can't 756 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:59,800 bend them and you have to get fitted and they have a very cool 757 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:01,840 tool on their website. You can do it virtually. 758 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:06,880 Big plug for lab here but any long putter get fitted because 759 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:12,000 if it's wrong it'll make it worse but especially lab because 760 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,360 they they can't be adjusted as at all. 761 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,960 Well I guess these new ones came with the neck but just go get 762 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:20,280 fit. It's the biggest thing, 763 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,560 especially if you're a decent to good player, go get fit. 764 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:26,400 Yeah, no, 100%. And then I think you will. 765 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,440 You just have to get started and then you can learn and then make 766 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,320 adjustments like it was fun. Yeah, like moving the grip down 767 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:35,040 like that was something that 20% and you can just start to mess 768 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,080 around here. I got AI got a piece of history 769 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,400 for you. So I was looking at the first. 770 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,160 The first long putter win was Rocco in 91 I think. 771 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,640 Nice. I grabbed this off eBay just to 772 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,240 have a bit of like this is this was the first win. 773 00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:52,560 You weren't the first, but no, this was the. 774 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,160 Oh wow, look at that thing. Yeah, it is. 775 00:42:55,240 --> 00:42:59,240 It is really cool. So I'm thinking that insert used 776 00:42:59,240 --> 00:43:02,160 to be white. It it must have, yeah. 777 00:43:02,240 --> 00:43:04,400 That's awesome. Good fun there. 778 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,560 It's crazy. This thing is, is it's way too 779 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,480 light. It's like compared to what we're 780 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,320 used to now, like it's it's just not heavy enough. 781 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,000 But interesting. It was a cool little that's. 782 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:21,040 A great pick up there. Yeah, first, first long, long 783 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:26,120 putter win was with the B9. The ping B9 came out in 90 so 784 00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:27,400 wow. That was very cool. 785 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:29,880 Very cool. I got a history lesson today 786 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:30,600 too. Awesome. 787 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,680 There you, there you go. Well, thanks man. 788 00:43:34,240 --> 00:43:37,320 We'll we'll wait to watch the the pool. 789 00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,120 We'll see if you put the new oz in the bag or you stick with the 790 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:43,720 the old faithful here with the the old TGL or when are we 791 00:43:43,720 --> 00:43:45,080 coming back? When's the 1st? 792 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:51,840 December 28th or 9th, so I don't know if I'm playing or not We'll 793 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:53,440 see. OK, nice. 794 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,080 See if they throw me in the fire or not. 795 00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:57,920 As a defending champ coming back. 796 00:43:57,920 --> 00:43:59,120 That's it. That's it. 797 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,280 Very cool. Alright, thanks, Lucas. 798 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:03,960 Appreciate it. Alright, Courtney. 799 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:05,040 Thanks man. Alright.