Have you ever seen someone with a broomstick putter and thought
is that actually any easier? Well, today's guest has an
answer. His name is David Orr, he is one
of the best teachers around. He specializes in putting to
work with some of the top players like Justin Rose, Hunter
Mahan, and now I runs the Flat Stick Academy, a great resource
to learn everything putting. I've always enjoyed talking to
David over the years because man, does he have some good
stories, some good concepts and good principles.
And today we're going to learn a few two things.
But one, his thoughts on the long part of the broomstick,
like what does he think about it as a teacher?
And then what I really enjoyed is kind of his taxonomy of
putting, of like the different styles of putting you should try
on your journey of maybe conventional is not for you.
So yeah, we are in the middle of our alternative putting series.
We've had some great episodes before this.
Make sure to go back and listen to those.
And we've got some good ones coming.
I'm excited to get into today's conversation.
Let's kick it off with what's your experience with broomstick
and armlock? Like what?
Who have you worked with with? What's the process you've taken
them through? Like let's start start there.
Yeah, so typically people come to me with, you know, when they
come to broomstick or or lead our block or any alternative
stroke, right. You know, I haven't worked with
too many tour players as far as like broomstick, but I have lead
arm lock, couple players or whatever.
Alex Norton comes to mind. He has an interesting, it's more
like a a wrist lock and then a trail form drive with his fist,
like he's driving his lead arm. So that's a very important thing
to distinguish his. I think the industry thinks that
people only swing the putter when there's a lot of people
that hit with the putter or drive the handle.
Like there's more ways to move it than the theoretical
pendulum. Like I think the industry thinks
that every putter should be swung, but that's not what I've
come across with my experience of teaching players.
You know, I've had a few broomstickers, right?
Connor Brown, who I work with right now, plays at Alabama.
He's probably the one of the best at it that I've seen.
And also Marty Gertzen, our friend out at Pang, you know,
those would be two people I've worked with that and then a few
other amateurs, you know, club, a lot of club pros that come in,
you know, they have to struggle with the short ones.
And it's but yes. And then obviously, you know,
being out on tour for 18 years, 1718 years, you know, when you
play a practice round with other players, you get to pick their
brain, right? And I'll tell you what's an
interesting story, if you like stories, this one happens to be
true. Back in 2015, I was working with
Justin Rose and we were at Albany on the in the Bahamas.
And if anybody's been there, there's not a lot of play.
But on the putting green, Rosie and I are working.
And then Adam Scott's there and he goes, Dior, why don't you go
over there and ask Adam how he does his claw, right?
So I, I felt silly, but I went over, I said Adam, I said Rosie
sent me over here to pick your brain on how you do the clawing
goes. Oh, sure, mate.
And he spent literally 20 to 30 minutes going through like every
little detail on his fields, the claw.
So what? So what's interesting is I went
over and explained to Rosie's like, let's take the cart back
down to the house, get on the Sam pot lab and let's see how
the graphs look and got on there and the grass, the rotational
grass were smooth because I like this.
I think I'm going to put it in play this week, which is the
Masters. So we show up at the Masters and
Fooch looks at me like, what are you guys doing?
I'm set. He's going to do it by the back
nine anyway. And Foley comes up, he goes, are
you guys crazy? You changed his technique the
week before a major. I'm like, hey, you know, he's
going to end up doing it. So that was and I told him, I
said, you know, you're probably going to be better on the
shorter putts, but you're going to struggle with flag putting
because it's a really different way of holding the club.
And I got thrown on the bus. He finished second that week.
Jordan's fee. And if he if we hadn't changed
it, he probably would have won. And then obviously he's been
working with my friend Phil Kenyon and he started with Phil
Conventional and then Phil saw the same things that, you know,
when you got him on the Sam pot lab, the stroke was better claw.
And then, you know, Rosie, I've worked on and off with Rosie
from 2012 to 2022 in different roles, different capacities, not
just putting, but just different roles.
And he, he admitted to me, he said, you know, he goes, I
really like my stroke conventional.
He goes, but I don't trust it so much on the short ones.
And he goes on the when I go claw, he goes feels a little
more mechanical, but I feel locked in, you know, And I think
so he chose the route of I'd rather make all the shorter ones
and then work on my leg putting, if that makes sense.
So I know that's not broomstick and it's not claw, but it's a
great story to lead off with because you know, Adam is
probably got the best swinging style of broomstick.
I think he uses a lot of the same principles.
You know, I think he anchors it with his thumb, but it's not
anchored to the body and he puts his forearm parallel to the to
the line. I think his lead hand grip is
the grip that's trying to keep the butt of the club stable.
And then I think he rocks his shoulders more in a vertical
plane or, or a lateral plane, if that makes sense, which goes
with the broomstick style, right?
And you know, so and he uses more like momentum or swinging
and momentum. So swing length and swing
momentum is a key factor in why he's such a good lag putter with
the the long putter, right? But.
Well, let's talk about. I want to talk advantages and
disadvantages of each one. So let's get right in into the
broomstick like. In theory, it's the simplest
pattern. Why?
What? What makes this simple?
Because it's a fixed radius. So let's just take like
literally a Lab mez one or an oz 1A shaft becomes a radius
because it's going right into the center of mass of the club
or relatively close to it. Plus Lab has done a good job of
reducing the twisting to minimal to none.
So you got this fixed radius that doesn't twist.
To me that's an advantage, right?
And then and are you? Saying to fix radius because
this side like wherever you're gripping the broomstick isn't
moving back and forth, it's. Not translating, it's not
translating side to side. And that would be the key to
that, to that style is let's keep the butt of the club in as
tight of a kernel or space as possible.
OK, makes sense now how you power it.
The butt of the club might move if I move my shoulders, but if I
power up my trail side. The key is it is the is a
physical radius, whether it's 42 inches long or 48 inches long or
52 inches long, that's just whatever you fit to.
And if you can position your right hand grip to move the
shaft in the plane. So a lot of people are, you
know, the the biggest torque in a putting stroke is not around
the shaft, it's in the plane. That's the biggest torque.
That's the most forces are going side to side, not twisting the
club and not moving it out of plane.
You see, I'm saying so you got those 3 axes, XY and Z people
when they are moving the club side to side, that's the most
force, most torque, it's in that plane not twisting.
You know, my thumb and my forefinger can negate any twist
of the club. That make sense?
Well, you've got a putter that's basically a fixed radius.
Yep. If you can keep the butt cap
relatively in a small little kernel, that makes sense.
Yep. Well you're saying if I'm
hitting a normal putt my putter is moving the the butt end of
this is moving back and forth right?
Yeah, well, that would be do that again.
Now that's translation. So now move the head and the
butt of the club together. So that's translation.
There's no rotation taking place.
Yep, now and move the butt of the club 3 inches back, but let
the club head go 8 or 9 inches swinging.
So we're going. To go, you know, let it rotate.
Now move the butt of the club to the right and swing.
Yes, now you have a planar motion.
You have translation and rotation.
OK, got it. And so this is what's happening
in a conventional. Conventional stroke or Yeah,
yeah, so. It's complex, right?
There's because there's a lot. Of because it's no longer a
single pendulum theory. Yep.
Right, because there's translation involved, right?
So translation just side to side movement, right.
So rotation would be a pure rotation would be keeping that
butt cap in the same place and letting it rotate.
Go ahead and do that for. Us like this?
No, no, no side by that, Yeah, but keep your see you're moving
your thumb. Don't move your thumb.
Yes, yeah. So, so #1 it's a fixed,
relatively fixed radius. I always add the word relative
to those people out are saying, well, I I see it moving 1/4 of
an inch, but it's relatively a fixed radius.
And then if you can apply a torque or a force and a torque
in the plane, it's it's a simple method.
And then let's put that plane at very vertical.
Yep. So let's say what is it?
Is the rule what 10° or 80? Degrees.
I think it's 80, so everyone does 79 and.
A half 8080, yeah, 80 off the horizontal, 10 off the vertical,
right. So now it's in a vertical plane
and you just start moving everything in a lateral plane.
What that's taken care of? Most of the problems in the
conventional putting, when players start moving the putter
in the horizontal plane, they start looking like this.
Yeah. Does it make sense?
So I think and it's legal. So I think in theory it's the
easiest way to putt. But it's is that just that Adam
Scott Lucas Glover style though? Like what about like a Bernhardt
I? And.
I going all over the place or. Like, well, if you notice that
almost all, almost all, not all, but almost all, they're keeping
the butt of the club in a relatively small space.
OK, now there's guys like Carl Peterson or I think Marty Putts
with his trail arm. So like you can literally hold
that butt cap. Go ahead and do that for us.
And then move your right hand grip down, down.
Now just take the putter back with your right elbow.
And yeah, and that's drive it through.
Just drive, just drive it through naturally.
Don't even think yes, you're pushing it through.
Oh, you're. Saying the whole thing goes
through no. No, no, keep the butt of the
club in the same spot. Just use your right hand and arm
Go. Yeah, yeah.
But the butt of club went back, so you're not the.
You got to keep that right. There you go.
So that's not being swung. It's not a swinging pattern,
that's a drive pattern. OK.
So. You said that a couple Times
Now. What does that mean?
Swing versus drive pattern? Define that part.
It's got angular momentum around.
It's a circular motion, right? It's being a rotational motion,
which is I think a pulling motion or two rotations of
pulling motion versus it being pushed.
So it's almost like you pulled the putter back with your right
arm and you pushed it forward, you are driving the handle.
That makes sense. So I think I think the problem
in the golf industry is everybody has this swinging
pendulum concept. And I'm just here to say that
not everybody swings. The greatest putter conventional
all time didn't swing. He hit it was Tiger Woods with
his trail arm, trail hand he had now he had some swing blended in
with it, which is what I would call more of a hybrid, right?
Carl Peterson, if you look him up, he had some shoulder rock,
but he also had some right arm drive.
That makes sense. So there's more than one way for
the club to move, but I think as an industry, we think of
swinging, we think of pendulum, we think of that swing length is
what controls distance. In a swinging pattern, that
would be true in a drive hold pattern.
Hand speed is what controls distance.
Hand speed would be here. Hold the butt of the club up.
Hold, hold the club up for us. Now just take your right hand
and drive the handle forward. No, the handle, not the head.
No handle, yes, but use it with your right hand.
Drive it. That's what Alex Noren does with
a left hand low grip. Go ahead and do left hand low
grip. OK, now we're now we're standing
up here. We go.
Yeah. Now see, all your fingers of
your right hand are near your forearm.
Go ahead and lock them out. Go ahead and push the handle
forward till it touches your forearm.
Keep going. Touch it.
Yes, yes. Now put your right.
Now you take your right hand and drive that left arm and club
forward. Good.
Now make a backswing long enough to drive.
Yeah, and keep driving it. Yeah.
Now you got to go a little bit longer backswing to drive it
more. You'll see the butt of the club
going forward and up. Yep.
That thing is not swinging. The club's not swinging.
Yep, here. You might like this.
I've got I've got props here. We got this ready to go.
I knew this was the. Same thing.
Yeah. So now go ahead and do left hand
low. Do the Alex Nora.
Yeah. Now put your.
Now just drive the butt of the club with your trail arm.
You can even straighten out your arm if you want to straighten
out your right arm through the ball.
See how it's your right elbows bent?
Yes. That's it.
That's driving, huh? Yeah.
So the length of the backswing is not what's determining the
distance. It's the hand speed.
So we got 2 ends of club, we got club head speed, we got hand
speed. Nobody's talking about hand
speed. They might be talking about hand
path, but what about hand speed, Right?
What controls hand speed by arm speed in my torso speed?
That makes sense, yeah. Someone's someone's sitting here
listening and they're like, do I drive this or do I swing it
more? Help me help them navigate.
This great question. All right.
If you're swinging it, do you focus more on length?
OK, so how far the club heads traveling and then do you feel
like it's swinging itself, meaning more momentum?
That makes sense. Or look at your right arm and
right hand and see how active your right arm is.
If you have a very active right elbow and a very active right
hand, you're probably driving the club now when when you
demonstrated the go ahead and demonstrate the the left thumb
on top. Now drive the lower portion on
the club with your right arm. Yep, good.
Just just go ahead and swing it. Just just do a little more
natural than that. Don't even use your shoulders.
Just keep by the club right there.
Keep your left thumb where your left thumb is.
Gosh, it's. Kind of hard to do.
Yeah, that's it. Now that's actually really easy
to do. Now how?
How important is your right hand grip?
Well, I think it's pretty important because it's how we're
applying that force to the. 100 So a lot of guys tend to go a
little bit under. So let's Tommy Fleetwood kind of
right hand a little under. Go ahead, maybe put it in the
web of your right hand. So like this is kind of how I.
Yeah. So look at how your forefinger.
Yeah, let's show us under. Show us under the club turn.
Yep. So that would be like Tommy
Fleetwood make a motion like that.
Yeah, good. Yes.
And your shoulder rocker. OK, now put your.
Now let's go. One finger on top, One finger
across. One finger, one finger across
the top. Across the top.
Yeah, like that. Now move it like that.
OK, good. Now let's put everything behind
on the side of the shaft. So your right arm is going to
change. Now.
Now right hand, turn your pronate your.
Yeah, keep moving your elbow out until it's in plane with the
shaft. Oh, now go like that.
Interesting. So there's lots of ways to
position the right hand. OK.
And it's going to, and it's really important for people that
drive the club, huh? Because if it's positioned too
far under, go ahead. Yeah, under.
So too far under would be like this.
Yeah. And then if you were to drive
your right arm out, it'll move the club out of plane on the
follow through like in to out. OK.
You see that? Like this, we'd be going in to
out, maybe going that way too much.
Your tilting is making it go vertical.
Yeah. Yeah.
And that interesting right now just to do 2 fingers across the
top, like rabbit ears. 2 fingers.
Yeah. And then put your ring finger on
the side. No ring finger on the side,
Yeah, but two fingers, Yeah. Maybe stretch your right hand
down the shaft so your right arm's not so bent.
There you go. Yep.
Now go ahead and control it there.
So there's lots of ways that this can be done.
Does that make sense? Yeah.
Yeah, now how do you? How do you so every, every
conversation I've had with folks, like equipment folks, we
was talking about, there's a, a phase of you got to figure it
out, right? And I, I went through that when
I started, I was just like, we're going to do stuff.
We're just going to hit putts and like figure it out.
Like, how do you, is that what you would say?
Like try these different grips, do this, do that.
Like how? How do I figure out what to?
Do I I don't throw stuff against the wall to see if it sticks.
Like I kind of knew based on how you were holding it and how you
were moving it, how it should move.
OK. That makes sense.
Yeah. Yeah.
Now let's get back to the simplicity of it.
The broomstick is a fixed, relatively fixed radius.
It is behaving like a single pendulum.
So you want to minimize the translation of the butt of the
club. Keep it in as tight a space as
possible. Even if your shoulder rocking,
keep it, keep it in as tight a space as possible, like a tight
kernel. We call.
That makes sense, Yeah. And then figure out can I swing
it. So like Adam, so he's got a
large shoulder motion, so he's got to get length and I believe
he's got a really heavy overall weight.
Like I think his head weight might be slightly heavier than
my overall weight of my gamer, my short.
We had Sam. Sam, I think, said it was 512.
Maybe I'd have to go back. So my Potter is 512 OK with the
head, the shaft and the pin grip on it.
For me that's heavy because I've always plotted with five O 500,
not the head, the overall weight.
So I've been head weights of 340. 335 three 4345 right now is
the heaviest I've been possibly ever.
But that makes sense because now with the with the it's no longer
a single pendulum when you're putting conventional because
every segment and joint behaves like its own little pendulum.
Like can you see my upper left arm swinging relative to my
chest? Well, that's a pendulum.
You see my upper right arm swinging relative my chest,
that's a pendulum, but of the club's translating back.
So it's that's why conventional is so it's like a it's like a
scooby-doo mystery, like people can't quite figure it out, but
it's the same plot. That makes sense.
Yeah. So it's you have to Now, the key
thing is when you put conventional, you have to
coordinate all this. And the the finer motor
coordination you have, the better you tend to put.
You're just more precise. The face returns a little more
swearer. So if we get back to the
broomstick, to me, while it's legal and I always say that
because I would have, I would have rewritten the rule.
You would you would have banned it.
I wouldn't ban. I wouldn't ban it, but the way I
would write the rule, everybody would be putting with a putter
that is equal to or less than the shortest club in your bag.
OK. Grip it how you want.
OK. You want to choke down on it and
lock it on your elbow? Fine, but it's going to be equal
to or less than the shortest club of your bag.
So what? How Long's your wedge?
How Long's your your log wedge? I don't know just standard
length. What's standard length?
Log wedge? I don't know how long that is.
3535 1/2 maybe 36 but here but then somebody goes well what if
they're 7 foot tall well aren't there overall length clubs
longer? So you got a you got Shaq O'Neal
playing golf and his clubs are two inch over.
Well, OK, well his wedge is 38 inches long, you know what I
mean? So I I would have written the
rule differently. Yeah.
There I that is an interesting part of the story.
OK, so, so broomstick, what we've learned so far is it's
it's it is more simple bio mechanic.
Whoops, sorry you're. Good.
You're good it. It's more simple
biomechanically. It well, it's simpler in theory.
In theory. When you get that upright, it
actually is simpler because the movements are more lateral than
horizontal. It's correcting a lot of the
behavioral issues that players have with short putters.
And is this why people go to go to the style when they want help
with their short putts, right? Like it's just the complexity
and the nerves and now this new style helps us.
Look at Lucas Glover. Like I, I've known Lucas since
he was at Clemson, and you want to talk about a great guy?
He's a great guy. OK, yeah.
And if you saw his stroke with the short 1, you would feel a
lot of compassion. And now you see how good the
stroke is. Like go look at his stroke on
YouTube. It looks great.
OK, and here's why I think so. You know, some players have
concepts on how they think the Potter should move.
I think going to the long Potter matches how he thought a putter
should move. That's what there's no more
conflict in his concept or his fields because now they are
matching what he believed how the putter should move.
So there. And plus, it's a brand spanking
new pattern, probably minimal to no trauma in it, you know, I
mean, and then all of a sudden, guys at that level, like those
guys are the best in the world. And all of a sudden you've got
just this glamour of hope and belief.
And then all of a sudden it's like boom, like they become
soup. Like Superman, Superwoman,
they're unbelievable. Like, even on the LPGA Tour, you
see them get like just that little glimmer of hope and then
boom, it just takes off, right? But yeah, so I, I, you know, and
now as far as like, like Bernhard longer, I mean, I'd
have to see him in person and ask him personally.
So I can't really judge whether he's anchoring or not anchoring.
The thumb is not on the the thumb is not on the the thumb is
not on the the sternum. The question is, is the forearm
touching the PEC? And I can and I can, you can
only see with a shirt like I can't.
I'd have to ask them, you know what I'm saying?
Like you tell me, is it touching your PEC?
What? Well, that's the other style
when people start experimenting with the brooms is do we go, you
know, parallel with the lead arm to the ground or do you do some
kind of more different style, right.
Do you think there's another way or is it like this is the way
you've got to do? I think if I were to shoulder
putt in the lateral plane I would do my arm out like this.
OK. Like like I.
Wouldn't everybody start there? If you're going to try one,
start there. Try start there.
Try swinging it like go watch Adam do it.
Pull up YouTube and watch Adam do it.
Matter of fact, there might be a couple videos on the out there
him explaining it because he's very good at articulating his
feels right and what he's trying to do, you know?
So try to swing it first and you're going to need arc length,
right? And you're going to need good
timing and cadence to swing the putter.
That makes sense. All I'm trying to say is not
everybody swings the putter. So now what's the second way of
doing it? Second way of doing it would be
the trail hand and arm. And I'm reversed for some reason
I'm not. I look left-handed on my screen,
but using the trail arm arm to pull the putter back.
You might need a little help from this side of the like the
right shoulder pulling it up and back, not the left shoulder, but
the right shoulder moving up and back and then let your right arm
do what it wants to do. That makes sense.
But you got to remember you're standing so vertical, like
within 10 degrees, 12°, that the putter doesn't have a lot of
horizontal arcing to it in in the first place.
And it's minimal twisting. So you're not having to manage
that. And then the whole thing weighs
so much that all you got to do is get a little bit of momentum
on the downswing and let that sucker let, let it go.
But some players use their right arm, their right hand to push
the bottom of the club right versus the top of the club.
Top of the club we call driving, bottom of the club we still call
swinging with the trail arm, if that makes sense.
But that that's why I think it's so important getting the right
length of the putter and then where, how far down if here, if
you, if our listeners experiment how far, how far down the shaft
and how straight your right arm needs to be like that would be
one of the exercises that I did with the guy that does the long
putter. I said, OK, I want you to do it
with your hand up here. OK, now I want you to hit 1/2
inch. Go in 2 inch increments here.
And then we went down every two inches until his arm was
straight. OK, let.
Me demonstrate real quick, yeah, I'm using a short putter, but so
starting with my hand up here, yes, go down to inches.
See my right arm is straightening out, right,
straightening out. I mean, where would be the best
place if I could do it? Where would be actually where
the center of mass the club would be balance point wise,
Find the balance point. Like if I could, if I could
really do it, I'd put it there, huh.
And now what? Do you notice it's staying
stable? The button of the club.
You're not. You're not moving.
Yet now if I start to move my shoulders, uh oh.
Now that relatively fixed axis is going through my body, maybe
to my behind my spine, right? But so this is the easiest way,
pushing on the balance point, huh?
But now look at my right arm, right?
I think players are going to do better with their arm longer.
OK, you. See what I'm saying and this by
the way is to hang also too short, but I think with play
around with different vertical placements along the shaft to
find where you want to push from that make sense.
Yes, yes. And even also same thing I'm
going to go into swinging you ready?
So it's like it's more my back muscles more of a down, up.
Yep. You can see how the right hand
here is not really pushing straightening.
So is the swinging verse driving?
Could we simplify that down to that If you're focused on
rotating your shoulders and back throughout, that's you're
probably doing a swinging motion where if you're staying still,
it's dry, it's more driving. You can water it down that way,
but you still, even if I'm going to drive it, I still got to get
this shoulder to pull the putter back.
OK, because. It's going to feel weird going.
Or I could do it with my elbow. Yeah.
Or you just pull it back with my hand, put my thumb on this side
and go back like that. There's lots of ways to do this
that makes sense. Yeah.
But Adam Scott, I swear, is using more shoulders like this
and much more in the vertical plane.
That's why you'll see like, he's so good.
He's so good. It's almost as if he's just
holding the club with just his left hand.
Yep, that it's funny. It's funny you say that.
I talked to Sam Hahn and he said that's a drill that Adam does is
he just puts with his left hand. Yeah.
So that would be, we'll call it the Adam Scott drill then, but
you can see now the length of the stroke is and then the
momentum. Yep.
See, it looks like a swinging motion even with a heel shafted
88-O2. Yeah.
Yep, now my thumb is keeping it from twisting.
Right. That makes sense.
Yep. So boom, boom, yeah, put the
right hand behind. Just sit here and practice going
boom, boom, right? So if you can, if you can do
this drill with coordination, then you just find where you
want to be with your right hand grip.
You see what I'm saying? Now I'm probably guessing a
longer right arm that way because you got to remember, the
more the arm is bent, the more it can straighten.
If it already starts, starts out with say bent 10° and then my
wrist is extended a little bit of ulnar deviation.
So extension ulnar right now my arm's not going to participate.
It's not going to interfere with that.
Plus the elbow is going to clear the rib cage better.
Yep. You see that now?
If I get my elbow here, that might be the worst place to put
it. See how my elbow is on my side
scene? That could be the worst place to
put your right elbow in golf because what's going to happen
is your trail upper arm is going to Roundhouse.
You see, Watch my bicep, my upper arm, it's going to want to
leave that position. That's why from here it's got to
feel outward when you're everywhere Here, the drive is
outward and that closes the face.
This movement right here is the this right here is the biggest
problem in conventional as well as lead hand low.
It's the, it's the, I think Steve Elkington called it The
Dirty bird. There's the wing.
Yeah, you don't want a lot of you don't.
You're going to get some internal rotation, but you don't
want a lot of it. That makes sense.
So I think for our listeners reviewing, this stays stable.
Do I do the Adam Scott drill, right, that's what swinging is
going to feel like. Or do I take it back with my
trail shoulder back and up, pulling the thing, and then let
my right hand and arm drive it through?
Yeah, or just the right arm. What I think the the key part if
with the drive that you said, which I resonate with is the if
you're extending your right arm, right, if you see that
happening, then you're driving it through.
You're not swinging. Yeah, OK.
A lot of a lot of advantages You you've done a great job selling
broomstick putters, so. So we should so and then let's
talk about the putter. I think there is no better
design and a lot of people think I'm anti 0 torque, I'm not I'm
360° of torque. I think there's an advantage at
0 face balance to me is 90° of toe hang.
Yeah. Toe down is 180.
There is a company that has made a putter that is face balance
face down. So now the putter is pointing at
all four points of the compass near here, here and here on
360°. Now this putter here and this
putter here is for somebody, but not everybody.
But the problem is we've been playing golf just in this
quadrant alone for how many years?
All of the years. Yeah, from east to South, right,
Like like a ping putter's there, right.
So face balance to me because the putter, first of all,
they're showing you with the shaft horizontal and the
revealer shows you the shaft at an angle.
So it's not a fair fight. Makes sense.
Even my thumb and forefinger alone.
Why isn't this? I'm just holding this with my
thumb and my forefinger. Why isn't it going?
Why isn't the toe flowing open? Because it doesn't take much to
negate the torque. So the torque is actually face
awareness. It's face awareness now.
Interesting key. This is a note for our
listeners. When you go from center shafted
to heel shaft and lots of toe hang, you want the overall
weight of the head lighter because it's going to feel
heavier. The inertia feels heavy.
Got it. As you go towards center shafted
and 0 torque, you want to have your head.
You need to understand that relationship because if I showed
you a 0 torque blade, which my good friend David Frisch from
Goodwood Golf made like, what would it feel like in a
conventional blade? Can't feel the head period.
Feels like just just a shaft. So when you go 0 torque, you
must go have your head. Makes sense.
And as you go towards back towards toe hang, you might want
to ease off on the headway. So the worst thing I see
sometimes is somebody comes in with a heel shafted mallet and
the head weighs 365 and they're wondering why they can't get the
face to come back to square. It's because there's just too
much mass in the head. Absolutely.
To me the Mez 1 Max is that correct versus the oz one dot I
with the steel insert which I think's a big deal.
You're coming up short with the grooves.
Consider changing to the to the insert with the steel insert
with a milled face, give you a little more ball speed.
And I think Sam would agree with this that the the initial
aluminum with grooves there's there's a tendency towards a
slow ball speed, which would be great if you remember it,
Oakmont or Augusta or Seminole, right?
But if you're playing on slow Bermuda greens down at the
beach, you know, you might want to have a hotter face, if that
makes sense. So do you know the new HS?
The heel shafted loud? Does that come with the insert?
I think so. Yeah, it'd be, it'd be
brilliant. And then what I'd like to see
them do. And if Sam's listening, why
don't you put this stainless insert on the directed force?
Yeah. Now you want to talk about
really good for lead arm walk which we need to go into now.
Well, before we do that I do, are there any?
What are the broomsick disadvantages?
Like what? What can people besides people
hating and comments on YouTube videos about how?
It's all about coordination. How good is your coordination?
Right? So if lie angle balance means
that you can keep the lie angle from moving out of plane, that
makes sense. So none of that technology works
if you have a non planar stroke. Do not use lie angle balance or
zero torque putters if you're putting stroke is non planar.
Non planar means. Do you see how this thing is
going everywhere it wants to go? That makes sense.
Guess what you probably should be using?
I'm holding it up right now. OK.
These putters like to go shallow or low and inside.
That's just the design of them. They just love to do this.
That makes sense. Yep, which the broomstick is a
planar because it's simple. Yeah, yeah.
It's just, it's so like center shafted you just go, you know
what I'm saying? So you could, but the problem is
most of the training aids are too flat.
Like it's the shaft plane needs to be set at what the, if you're
talking the zero, the lab right with the, the shaft axis goes
through the center mass or even overshoots it a little bit.
But you know anything that's a linear vertical?
That makes sense. Fairly planar.
But if you have a non planar stroke, meaning your shaft arcs
too, not just your sweet spot but your shaft arcs, don't use
these Potters. But.
The directed force, yeah, boy, if that had a different face on
it. I actually have a couple here.
I actually have a couple of the first ones that Mister Pressy.
Sent Yeah, we'll see. We'll see a bit of a.
So I actually have eleven of these, not two of these.
The original. Yeah, with the forward press
shaft and the micro angling back and if I were to put a claw, I'm
using this. But again, it's how like do you
see my right arm and elbow there?
And. Then I'm putting my forefinger
down the shaft because this is going, this is the only grip
that goes in my lifeline. Every single one else goes this
way. Like the pin grips are here.
So look at I'm, yeah, I mean they're there.
I am. And then I'm going to make sure
the ball positions forward because of the offset, the
onset, excuse me, and then the shaft.
And then from here, I'm probably going to swing it with my
shoulders and then I might have shoulder and a little bit of
right hand, right arm with this motion.
So it's like if I were to go to claw and I'd either do this one
or I'd do the axis one, which is the one that Rosie Rosie did.
That makes sense. So now lead arm lock again.
Now the radius is offset so it's no longer in the middle of my
body. It's there's got to be is there?
Let me take a guess. Is there a lot of translation
then happening in lead arm lock because it is moving?
Because the arm is translating. Yeah.
Right. So the butt of the club is
translating. So now the radius is somewhere
in space up by your lead lead between your lead elbow, lead
shoulder. But the radius is now it's more
of a brush stroke, like low, high.
OK. Because the radius is no longer
in the middle, it's offset, meaning my hands are offset,
which gives us a clue what kind of halls should we have.
Probably offset with the correct amount of loft.
And then the shaft lane. That's up to you.
And if you want to feel more locked, you probably want the
the two degree shaft lane or the wrist lock grip that you just
showed. So do you want to lock out that
radius and then drive it? You know, like driving it?
See, I'm you can see that I'm just driving my hands forward.
Yep. How active is my right arm?
You see what I'm saying? What it has to it, it does that
in a in an arm lock or you can go probably either way, right?
Can you do keep it more passive or you could do more?
Than any drive through exactly. OK.
Yeah. So I find it interesting and I
don't know if I'm correct on this or not because it didn't
Adam win his Masters with a short putter.
I think he did. I can't remember.
I think he did, but I think JJ Spawn might be the first guy to
win with 0 torque. He owes, yes.
Yep. Yeah, so how cool is that?
And he's left hand low. Yep.
So what's funny is these alternative putters are matching
alternative techniques. They might not be a match with
certain conventional techniques, but they they have a place in
the market. Does that make?
Sense. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So. I've come to, I've come to the
realization like I'm not fighting this anymore.
Yeah. If you can aim your lab and you
can return it square and you don't have speed problems, I
ain't saying anything about your putter.
You can see on my feedback on my Facebook feedback or Facebook
page, like there's plenty of people that I'm giving a lesson
to have a lab putter. The only people I'm taking the
lab out of their hands if they're struggling with their
speed. So here's a special note.
If you see yourself short and left, short and left, short and
left, there's a very good possibility that the ball speed
is too slow off that face and that that zero torque is
reducing the rotation in the back swing.
You're putting that normal force into it and it's going left.
So you got the short lefts. It may be a mismatch that makes
sense. So what?
We're going to guess they came from a toe balanced.
They might have. Scotty Cameron like at 1:35,
right? Yeah.
And so I think people that tend to have that pattern short and
laugh, short and laugh, short and laugh.
And then you put a little bit a little bit of toe hang like 9090
or 100 or whatever, 10° off face balance like boom, it matches
right. But lead, lead hand.
So I find lead hand low lead arm lock.
I would probably be doing this one.
And didn't they make one that had a smaller footprint?
Is that the DF 3? There's we got the DF 3.
Yep, they they've got that one. So I actually designed my first
two putters with David Frisch and Goodwin Golf, and they were
not blades. One was a absolutely beautiful
wide blade. It's gorgeous.
I stole every good looking concept from Cameron and
Bettinardi and all these custom guys and said OK, I'm going to
put these all into one putter and it is absolutely gorgeous.
Interesting. OK.
I'll be text it to you and I don't know how good you are.
How can I? OK, what's the website?
Let's pull it up. We'll, we'll no.
It's not on. It's not.
It's not for sale yet. It was just designed.
OK. But I'm going to send it to you
via text and then we're going to see how good you are at at
posting this. Yeah, we'll pull it up.
We'll pull it up on the screen here.
So it wasn't a blade putter. See everybody thinks I only fit
blade putters. I don't.
I just wanted to design my own non blade putters.
That makes sense. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, so I just sent you 23D prints.
OK. Of what they would look like and
if you can pull them up on the screen, that would be really.
Cool, I am going to try. Well, anyway, yeah, so lead hand
lock, elite arm lock, it was great.
So in 2022, Saint Andrew's British Open, I was with Rosie
and we were playing practitioner with Bryson Dechambeau and
Bryson was showing me how he does it.
Yep. You know, again, a very upright
plane elite are and then he torques his he torques his upper
arm and lower arm against each other, right.
And then he's a golf machine guy.
So he knows what tracing a straight playing line is.
That makes sense. And then he's got like a lot
lots of shaft lean, but also lots of loft.
And doesn't he use a sick putter that has the variable loft?
I think so, Yep. Yep, and whether you hit it high
on the face, middle of the face or low, there's different planes
with the loft, which is a pretty nifty technology.
I think Steve Patterson back in the day like in 2013, 1415, I
think he owned sick. I don't know if he still does or
not, but he had showed me that technology and that's pretty
nifty. But you know Bryson, if you, if
you'll notice, so a lot of times with lead arm lock, you will see
because the radius is here, you will see a lot of head movement
up and back. That's good behavior for lead
arm lock. That's good behavior for lead
hand low. We don't want to see the head
floating and the torso floating toward the target.
So typically when the radius is locked out, you'll see tilting
like that's normal. So, you know, Brad Faxon was a
good friend of mine and he goes, he goes and I have his 3D data,
you know, like the body data. And he's like Dior, my head
moves back. I'm like, no, your head moves
back the most and you're the best because he actually sets up
open and tilted that goes together.
And then when he goes through, he really he tilts his head as
he's turning his head and then he tilts his spine so his head
moves the most. So keeping your head still is
not a fundamental. We just don't want your head
floating forward. We don't want it dropping or
extending too early. Like it needs to be fairly
stable up till about impact and then after impact, the good kids
heads move back. So did you get my text there?
Did or no? Did they come in?
Said Red. So you've seen what they look
like? Whoops, you're on mute.
Sorry, we're get, we're going to get these pulled up here.
Oh, this is not ideal, but we're going to we're going to do it
anyways. OK, so here you go.
Oh wow, boom, they're not blades.
Not blades. Tell us what?
What were you working on here? What are you?
What are you doing? So I've always felt like the
footprints are too big. OK.
Like even on the #7 So David Frisch is a good friend of mine
of Goodwood Golf Company and he and he does make long putters
for Longbow. OK.
Longbow's a good friend of his, that company.
He makes long putter putters all the explorer I believe or, or
something, but you can look those guys up.
But so I go up to his garage in Maryland and we're literally in
the middle of nowhere and he's like, yeah, I want 2 new designs
to put on my website. And he goes, I want your, your
thoughts? I'm like, OK, I think the
footprints are too big. So this is actually a shorter
wide blade. I also put you can't see it
from, but down the line it has the toe has some rise to it, so
it looks like the toes in the air, but it's sitting clutch
makes sense. And you'll notice that we
radiused everything like look at the shoulders and the bumpers
and everything's soft. So I did the same thing with the
number seven. Look at there's the only thing
that's a straight line is the face.
Explain everything has been radiused.
That makes sense. Now that's a smaller #7 than
you're used to seeing. OK.
That's and we're using either a post or a hole for a single
bend. I wanted to see a number seven
with a single bend and we trim the the shaft a certain maybe an
inch or two to get a certain desired toe hang.
So this will be a 10 to 2020° toe toe hanging number 7.
And I got to pick the names. So the model on the left is the
DO 11. It's the DO David or 11 is my
favorite number. It's what I wore in most of my
jerseys in high school. DO 11 wide blade that looks so
good. Now keep in mind these are 3D
prints. These are not metal.
These are not the finished product.
The other one we call the MF7. Now, MF for a lady would be a
mallet fanged #7 so if you're selling it to a lady, it's an
MF7, it's a mallet, it's got the fangs and it's a #7 model, so
MF7. Now if I were selling it to a
guy, it's an MF7, yeah. I like.
That David and I kind of always joke about, yeah, you know, how
many of those MF sevens are you making, right?
So, but it was fun. It was fun to really learn to
get on a CAD system right to, to really understand what goes in
to you start with a basic shape on a CAD, just like you would
have built a steel. But rather than wasting money on
trying it out on steel, we David used a 3D printer because it's
saving me what, 60 bucks a steel, you know.
And the cool thing is, is once you get the 3D print, you put a
shaft in there and you get an idea what it looks like size
wise, shape wise, radiuses and all that cool stuff.
Then when he decides that, OK, I think we got it, then you run a
one off. So then you put it through the
CNC machine and it takes a lot of time and then all of a sudden
you actually have the first one one.
So it was fun because learning to locate the center of gravity
of the cloth relative to the center of the face relative to
the shaft, that relationship is what makes putter designs.
Putter designs. Yeah.
It's not just what it looks like.
There's a whole, you know, where's the shaft going to be?
Where's the center of the face going to be?
Where's the how high is was the depth?
Oh, by the way, I'm on MF7. Do you know how ballots tend to
be shallow faced in our mass? Now, this is the same height in
the middle of that. MF7 is the same height as your
Scotty Cameron. And the center of mass is
forward and it's higher, so you don't have to lift it.
You know how Rory misses some putts a little thin as the
putters, like lifting on a mallet.
The center of masses tend to be low.
In fact, you actually have to have some lift which creates
more rise angle and maybe occasional low hit strikes.
So same thing, you know, Now what's interesting is if I were
to make that MF7 for a long putter, you want a bigger
footprint. So the smaller footprint is
actually for the conventional. But it just I just wanted to
spell that David Orr only only does blades because that it's
out there that David Orr only does blades.
So I didn't want my first design to be a blade.
It's more of a wide blade or square back.
And my second design is a mallets an MF7.
You know, now I'll go back with David and let's, I don't think I
can do a better blade than David.
David Fritch has two models, One's the G61's, the G71 looks
like an answer to and one looks like an conventional answer, you
know, rounded. So it's one's more squared off
on more rounded. And then he's put his little
touches on it like removing some ledges and things like that.
But it's, we were talking on the phone, like pretty much every
geometric, geometric shape has been made like to really like
come out with a new design. It's like everybody's copying
something from everybody, if that makes sense.
And you look at the lab, right? So the lab has gone from the
directed force, right Footprint. It's large.
They've made a smaller footprint.
You look at the the Mez 1, I think at first it had a big
footprint, then they had a smaller one, I think, and then
the Oz one, right, which is more malady looking more like in the
D shaped family. You know, it'd be interesting to
see if they make a smaller footprint of that one and
they've done the heel shafted one now, which I haven't seen
yet, which technically isn't heel shafted.
It just means the Hazel, the shaft still, I think going
really close to the center of mass and they might have tricked
some weight in the heel or whatever to make it lying a
balance, but it's not truly heel shafted.
Heel heel shafted is my this is heel shafted.
This is shafted. They're just got a a post that's
located toward the heel. That's a certain hot Hazel
height, which by the way, that's another way to get rid of toe
hang is changing the height of the Hazel.
And that's what we did with my custom blade that David made me.
We went with a custom, you know how you got like maybe an inch
and a quarter height of a plumber's neck versus like 3
inches, right? You know, so it's interesting,
but lead arm lock, I think like lead arm lock, claw is a deadly
combination. OK.
Think of Webb Simpson. Yeah.
Like you're locking in the radius again and then again,
what are you doing with this trail hand?
You're just trying to put force and torque in the plane, right?
So if there's a common theme between broomstick lead arm
lock, it's a fixed radius. It's you are trying to control
the butt end of the club as well as the head end.
That makes sense and I think. Disadvantages Marty talked about
with Armlock a lot was leg putting being more difficult.
Yeah. Tell tell us about your thoughts
on that. And I mean, is that why we don't
see more people doing it? Because it is less than you?
Got to get the lock correct. So Alex Noren took a lesson for
me on tour a couple years ago and he goes to me and goes, you
do, you know, I got the most RPMS on Quintic, Like he's got
the most RPMS. And I said, oh, that's great.
How you doing on your uphill left to riders?
He goes, that's why I'm that's why I got a lesson with you is
why I said because you're launching them into the slope
and into the Bermuda grain and the ball is hopping and you're
judging your distance off that hop.
I go, how much left do you got? He goes 3 and I said, well, your
shaft lane looks like it's more than three.
So you got negative loft into, into a slope into friction.
There's a wall like the ball hits a wall of grass and then it
bounces. So how good is that RPM when
you're, when you're launching it into a slope with high amounts
of friction, it's not helping you.
So he goes, well, how much loft do you think I need?
So I, I had him on my Capito and I know what a shaft lean was and
I said, well, the minimal amount, I think a shaft thing
was 4°. Now I think about, I said, well,
I like to see a launch of about two degrees.
So what's 4? What's 6 minus or 4 four, 4 + 2,
you go 6. I said that's what lost you me
because I don't know if I can do that because now you're Sacr,
he's going to reduce some of his what RPM is going to replace it
with a better launch and he's going to have a higher launch
speed. So what's interesting is I think
Paul Hurrians on his quintic, like if you get a green number,
if it's 1.75 launch, but that would be like on a artificial
surface. We're we're playing golf in a
real world with grass. Biv Waden did some great talk
about going from artificial to real grass.
If you ever get an opportunity, you should interview him on
artificial versus real grass. That'd be a good topic.
Yeah. Biv Waden.
So what's interesting is I think Scotty kind of is intuitively
right, like they're out there in the POA country, right in the
fescues. Like I think the launch angles
got to be up there more like 2 1/2 three.
You know, I'm saying like the the taller the wall is of the
grass that you're launching into, the more loft you need.
Makes sense. So what's funny is when I used
to do a Dell putters, I had a two degree loft of putter, but I
tend to have 1 1/2° of shaft length.
So now I'm launching it at 0.5. Well, I had that toppling Alex
Noren RPM bounce. Yeah.
Oh, it looked good. Yeah, right.
And what's funny is I'm all the way back to playing like 3 1/2
degrees. So 3 1/2 -, 1 1/2 is 2.
So I'm launching most of my putts at 2:00 and then I used to
hit a lot up on it. Now I'm move the ball back
closer to low point but not quite a ball still left a low
point. It's just only like an inch inch
and a half left a low point. I'm almost launching it more
now, like a knuckleball like 2 up with a two degree loft.
Like I'm launching it with the least amount of spin.
That makes sense. I could be totally wrong but
I've seen my personal lag putting get better, so lofting
up, not lofting down that makes. Sense if someone's like oh man
this is super interesting how how would someone check this if
they're what tech do they need to check if the.
How they're launching is the Quintech.
Paul Hurian is the guy. Like, have you ever interviewed
him? No, I don't think so.
Well, there's a second topic. Doctor Paul Hurian is the ball
roll expert. His system is worldwide the best
when it comes to ball roll launching, if you know, if
that's what you like to get fit for his ball roll, he's the guy.
I would say of all the fundamentals that that's the
least knowledgeable. I am, if that makes sense.
But I've come to appreciate like the change, you know, so and a
lot of my launch stuff comes from Biv Waden and Biv.
And I were talking about this. I said, yeah, I've been moved
the ball not as far forward, moved it back.
It's still in front of low point in my rise angle used to be like
4, I don't know, 3-4 to 5°, but I'm putting really bad brushing
up five degrees and I've moved it back to almost like 2 and
they'll deliver. Loft is 2 and like man, I'm, I'm
getting some good ball speed now.
It's probably launching with no spin.
Or little spin, if that makes sense.
Yeah. Yeah, So I, I think it's
interesting, so. Let let me bring us back to
armlock here. So we, we kind of talked about
how it works a little bit. Who would you say should try a
long putter? You should try armlock like
what? How would you guide someone if
they're? It all depends on coordination.
Like that's the reason why you're going to these is you
lack the coordination with the short one right now go to lead
arm, go to left hand low. Actually go to claw before left
hand low. So let's let's give it an order.
I've been caught with a short 1 and I'm missing a lot of the
little ones. Right, all right, go to claw
first, learn to stabilize the top hand and then find the right
arm length right then go to left hand low.
If you're left-handed, go to left hand low.
Makes sense now there's a lot of players that putt left hand low
but still drive the club with the trail arm.
Jordan Spieth. So Jordan Spieth is a good left
hand low example. You can see the butt of the club
translate, especially after he's hit it.
Watch what? Watch what his club does after
he hits. It makes sense It doesn't have
any influence on the ball, but you can see what the brains
going like. I want the club going there
right? And then probably lead arm lock,
claw like web sits in or lead arm lock, wrist lock and drive
like Alex Noren. Then I guess we got to go to the
broomstick, right? And then you either got to do it
like Adam or you got to do it like, you know, the trail side.
And then I hate to say it, what comes after the broom is
pickleball. There's your as you pretty much,
you've pretty much exhausted now.
That's when players come up with really alternate.
Like I saw a guy who was lead hand, low claw, like he's
pulling the Potter through this left arm.
Actually have a video of that. Like, I mean, it it the modified
grips, the modified. It's amazing for the simplest
part of the game. It's amazing how people struggle
with the simplest part of the game, which maybe we've been
lied to. Maybe putting is not the
simplest. It looks innocent, doesn't it?
Like you just knocked the ball into a little Gopher hole.
Is that what Robert Robin Williams used to say?
Yeah, but yet it causes how much trauma as soon as we miss A2
footer. Lot of lot of trauma.
Yeah, exactly. A lot of trauma.
That's where the pickleball comment comes in is I'm done
with this. Yeah, you.
Know what I mean? Well.
Let let's end on this. I need your prediction.
So right now, use the long putter who we we've got Lucas,
Adam, Scott, Akshay, Akshay, Taurus.
We got a handful of guys. Five years from now, is it going
to be about the same? Will it be double, triple that?
Like what? What do you think?
I'm not Nostradamus, but I think Lucas's stroke has gotten better
because I think the concepts of the long putter match his belief
system now. Zealot Taurus.
There's a good example when he was when he was struggling with
it, the putter was not moving in the vertical plane in the
backswing. It was moving in the horizontal.
So you can see the putter move like the radius moves inside and
then he was almost missing the the face.
Remember that. Yeah, I've seen that video.
Whatever training aid he was on or concept he was taught was he
was trying to arc. Don't try to arc these things.
They arc themselves, but very little.
But if you get one of these things and you're trying to arc
that shaft that much, you get what Will was going through a
few years ago. Like remember I think he had
almost looked like it stayed on the ground, feel like like a
hovercraft. It went like low inside and on
the ground and then he miss hit it.
That's all total plane and hand path issue.
Do you know what I'm saying? When all he had to do was go
back and up, let it fall, come back down, forward and up.
Like work more in the vertical plane with these things.
Do you see? I'm saying even my hands got a
little horizontal, but it feels very vertical.
So I think you know these putting mats that my good friend
Phil Kenyon come out with, you won't use one of those with a
broomstick because you're going to start arcing the shaft.
We don't want you arcing the shaft.
We want you arcing the sweet spot in a plane that's probably
anywhere from, I don't know, 10 to 12° or whatever it is,
whatever your specs are right now.
Oh, there's another thing. If you get too far away from it
with a long putter, then you're going to start contending with
the shaft arcing too much. Does that make sense?
So there, so you know, stand close where you can see the line
get get the length right, get the weight right, get the loft
right, make sure the ball positions left a low point.
That's important. I would probably hover myself
like because you know how easy it is to like catch the ground
in the backswing because the putters on the ground, I might
would probably lift it up a few millimeters.
That makes sense. So it's just so much easier to
to take, take away the draft angle on the putters, not
grabbing any grass. But yeah, I mean, as long as the
rules are written what way they are, then as long as you're not
breaking any rules, then, you know, go for it if that makes.
Sense what do you think? Are we going to see more of this
five years from now? Do you think we're going to see
people keep adopting? Well, I think, I think this guy
I sent you a video of should have just signed up for lessons.
That makes sense. Like spending $600.00 on a
putter. Why don't you spend $500 or 750
on so you understand some correct concepts and then get a
putter, whatever it is. This putter fitting is another
another discussion on another day because you're going to get
10 different putters from 10 different fitters.
So, but I don't know, five years from now, I think people are
still trying to solve the Riddle.
Why doesn't my ball start online?
You know why? You know, it's funny.
Why does my lab putter twist? Well, the reason is, is where my
expertise is, is joints rotate, joints and segments of the body
rotate. So that's what's imparting the
twist butter. You know, the zero torque putter
is not twisting, it's you are. Why isn't it staying square to
the path because your past not centered.
It's not you know what I mean? Like I have not seen any of any
Potters fix poor mechanics. I have seen well fit Potters who
with people with good mechanics it can it could be the
difference of 1/2 a degree that makes sense.
But you can't fit poor concepts in poor mechanics.
But I think the simplest concept in golf is, you know, this is
the simplest theory right here. Whether you swing it, drive it
or hit with it, that's just kind of the way you coordinate your
movements. So are you?
The question is, are you putting with the long butter?
I am, yeah. I've been for a year and a half
or so. Yeah, and what's the difference?
I mean, I'm a big fan. I I had the you know, the right
hand just felt weird over short putts that I just couldn't.
I mean I can look great if I go on your green behind you there
and you have me putt. We did a lesson.
I bet I could look awesome and it would be it's.
A safe environment. Exactly, but I don't want to hit
a a left to rider 5 feet in a tournament that way though I'm
not interested in doing that. There's a reason why that's a
different environment like this is a safe environment.
Yeah. It could be the safest.
You're putting mat at home, then the practice screen is a little
more dangerous than this, but it's still safe.
And going out playing on your golf course, your home golf
course by yourself is a safe environment, but it's harder
than the practice screen. Then when you get invited to a
Country Club to play in a member guests, now the threat has gone
up more makes sense. And then when you get in
contention of a tournament, it's so it's like 5 different
environments, 5 different levels of stress.
At some point you're not mentally and emotionally
prepared to handle it in your stroke breaks down.
Yeah. And that's what I don't think
golfers appreciate from all these tour players.
All the tour players that I've seen are just geniuses.
They're great. Some are better than others,
Some are struggling, but they're geniuses.
These guys are so good. Like there's a huge gap.
Like even though like what is it #1 on Tour was positive 0.9
strokes gained and that was Sam Burns.
So you're only gaining one stroke per round.
Yeah. But see, everybody's looking at
putting the wrong way. Oh, I got to make more 15
footers. No, you don't.
You got to reduce errors. You got to reduce your green
reading errors. You got to reduce your speed
errors. You got to reduce your line
errors. You might have two to three
errors on the same cut. It's error reduction.
You don't need to make another 15 footer.
You got to stop missing these three footers and two footers
and five footers and that's what I'm hearing you say is I went to
the long putter because that left to right five footer was
became a problem. Yeah, and it worked.
I mean, I'm not like amazing now, but like I feel better.
Like I feel like I have a real chance to make this.
Well, you know. Well, and also because the
putter design probably isn't going to.
It's still going to rotate do the length and curvature, but
it's going to rotate less so on that left to right or there's
less rotation. You're going to find that a left
rider is a lot more friendly versus your right to left putts
now become a problem. So now you got to play maybe a
little bit higher line, which is always good, you know.
But but yeah, I mean, five years from now, I don't know.
Well, based on our conversation, it sounds like you believe there
definitely be more people using a broomstick versus an arm lock.
You because like. Well, I just think it's the
simplest way, but I would go in progression that I described
that makes sense. Go to claw before lefty and low.
I could do an entire dissertation on why that is and
has to do the right arm and the right wrist.
But yeah, and and the thing that I don't want to see, I don't
want to see junior golfers going to the broomstick.
I don't want that that to be the first putter they learned to
putt with. My my 7 year old has requested a
broomstick. Well, let them have one.
But to me, and I've said this before, that every child should
learn on an 88-O2 or a bullseye first to develop face, head and
shaft awareness. Those three things, face, head,
shaft awareness, right? Then they can move to the
technology. So it just really, I would not
want to see a 10 year old or 12 year old in a junior tournament
potting with all this technology and doing the long putter.
That makes sense. Yeah.
Now I could be, I could be convinced to change my mind.
I can because it is theoretically simpler.
But there's a reason why they had the Sam Sneed rule.
What's that? When he no more side saddle.
Oh yeah. Or straddling the line, like
when it's competitive advantage, the rule has to change.
Like when everybody's dominating with broomsticks, then we go to
the, then we go to the David Orr rule, right?
Which the club has to be equal to or shorter than.
Well, let me pin you down with another prediction then.
Will the rules change, do you think?
Do you think we'll see another rule change and and do.
You want to revolt? I mean, do you want lawsuits
because these guys career depend on it, their livelihoods, like
Webb Simpson's livelihood depending on that change.
That makes sense. You know, Adam's livelihood, I
think he might be set for life, you know?
But you know, it's yeah, it's just it's a touchy subject.
But the way the rules are written right now, it's legal.
It just saddens me to see junior golfers, like even when they
come to me with claw, it's like, dude, I'll teach you how to hold
the club, I'll teach you how to make a great stroke.
I'll teach you to become face aware, head aware, shaft aware.
And then if you're still having problems, then we'll then we'll
look at that. Yeah.
But the kids just mimic what their favorite player is doing.
Yeah. Yeah, you know, I did that, you
know, and every sport, you know, mimic my favorite player, you
know, I mean, you know, I couldn't wait to get my first
pair of Nikes, you know, which is the same thing as getting my
first Scotty Cameron. But now that's going to be
replaced with I can't wait to get my first lab putter.
And you got to give a you got to give Sam Han kudos.
Didn't their company just sell for like to a private equity
firm for like 200 mil? I I think yes, yeah, no, it's,
it's really cool. It's one of the great stories in
golf right now you know of. Probably the story, right?
Especially from a business, like how good of a business deal was
that? I mean, if I had that deal, Sam,
Sam, if if I were you, I'd be having my chalet on Snowmass in
Colorado or whatever it is or, and I'd be skiing every day and,
and then I'd be skiing in South America or Australia in the
summer and I wouldn't be worrying about putters.
You know what I mean? But I think you still would be.
I think you'd still be pretty worried about making putters.
Yeah. But I don't think you can get
away from it. Yeah.
So, but yeah, I just think that, you know, there's a part of me
that is still old school and classical and artistic.
That's another thing that people don't know about me personally
is that I pull from both ends of the spectrum being very artistic
and creative versus very scientific and database driven,
data-driven. That's why I couldn't wait to
design those putters and none of them had sharp edges.
They are already curves are great, you know, so but no great
podcast on this. I I hope I hope I hope people
understood there's different ways to do it that the swinging
model isn't the only model makes sense.
The progression of conventional to claw to lead hand low to lead
arm lock to to broomstick to pickleball.
That progression, yeah. Is it good progression so.
David, here's the deal. In the next 6 to 9 months, we
got to find a time when we're together to putting green and
we're going to do a video and let's go through that
progression. And like you talk about where to
take people through because that'd be great.
People would love, would love that it.
Would be fun, wouldn't? It, it would be, that'd be
really cool. So people want to learn from you
more. Flatstick Academy, is that still
the place to go? Www.flatstickacademy.com I've
got two different products on my website.
So I have the subscription model, which is the 999, which
is basically I'm just dripping whatever is on my mind that week
or two weeks. So it's very disorganized.
First, as we have now digital product packages like Short Putt
Focus is my favorite video package.
It's like a package of 12 videos, all the drills.
We're actually getting ready to film Long Putt Focus here in the
end of October. I have flat stick fundamentals
for people that want to know what are the fundamentals of a
punting stroke. Plastic fundamentals is really
good. And I'm just being honest.
Don't buy my flat stick practice plan because that was our first
shoot and the videographer didn't know what he was doing
and I don't think Matt and I knew what we were doing.
So don't buy that one. But I think, you know, the short
putt focus right now is really top notch and plastic
fundamentals. Those would be two that I would
purchase myself. I'm my biggest critic and I was
like, yeah, these are going to suck.
And then you watch him like, man, we we we did pretty good.
You know what I mean? So I'm actually looking forward
to filming the long putt focus. We're going to go from pine
needles over to Southern Pines Country Club, which we own.
And they have what's called this the over hills, which is
probably the most it's one of the larger practice greens in
the world and it's got tons of crowns and saddles that it's
almost probably one of the most difficult practice greens.
So we're going to be filming our long putt focus on probably one
of the most challenging practice greens in the world.
And you're going to be able to see some balls moving a lot.
I don't think there's too many. There's not too many straight
putts on that green. So.
Perfect Flatsick Academy. That's good.
You always have the best ideas. I always enjoy learning from
you, David, so thank you. Thank you for your time.
It's super fun. Perfect.
And I think we should film that progression.
That would be a great idea. It'd be so good.
All right, stay tuned on the YouTube channel, folks.
We'll we'll get there eventually.
All right, man.