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We're on a mission to help golfers from all over the world,
achieve their goals by understanding what it actually
takes to play their best golf. If we're talking with leading
instructors, researchers and players themselves to find what
is actually working. Hey, thanks for joining us
today. You are listening to one of our
partner shows. It is the tour coach podcast
with Tony ruggero. He has some phenomenal guests on
talking about teaching tour Pros, will have his players on
just always a great show today was another Eight episode want
to share that with you here on the golf Science Lab podcast,
let's get into it. It's been a fun, couple days,
good friend, great instructor by knows who you are Chris Como,
what's up? How you doing?
Tony, it's good that. So we I thought tonight because
we had a, we had dinner and we've got Andy Ogletree, we got
Vince Whaley VW, the bug. Emilio's coming out here, and
we've got Morgan Hale and I thought we were all sitting
around. We had dinner together.
I thought we'd titled this edition of the tour coach
podcast questions would come because I felt like earlier at
dinner but it's just asking me questions, okay?
Yes, I thought we'd just kind of continue that and that it asks
questions. All right you like that?
Yes, yeah let's go. Hi, I guess ask questions back
then we can censor those because that be I've no editorial
control in this. Like, you know, this isn't like
you at the show today. Yeah, you don't have it.
This is my this is it's not a very big deal but it's my little
deal. So let's talk about some stuff.
Okay, you ready? Yep.
All right how much further you think Bryce and can hit it.
I think he's got an extra 10 to 15 maybe.
We'll see how this 48 inch driver ghost.
That's gonna be you optimistic about that.
I am. I'm about to ask you about it.
It'll take a little time to kind of really feel like it's a game
ready. I'm sure.
But right, I'm optimistic about. Yes, Gus is a good place to
debut a would be. I want it right?
Have you got a little room there?
Yep. Yeah.
Seems to open up as you get further down there a bit, so
little bit not. But I will say though, you know,
is we exhibited a feel pretty good about Andy shot on 16 on
Sunday. I thought that was pretty good.
Yeah, I think I'll play 16. Great will draw.
All right, anybody got another question for Como?
I mean your big biomechanic guide to an extent, right?
I knew he was going to start talking.
I knew it's not maximize distance.
What would you like higher level player?
Well, I mean like, to first part by McCann Scott, I don't know.
I was teaching for 12 years before you ain't mechanics.
So, you know, I'd already spent time around Mac O'Grady and Hank
And Shriver and Brady, Rigs and worked for Ledbetter way before
I took any biomechanics class, but to me, it's like, does it
help to know a little bit about physics and a little bit about
the body? I mean?
Sure? Right.
So having a longer swing helps a lot, right.
If someone doesn't use their lower body at all, just like,
it's just standard like golf stuff, right?
You got a short swing, you're not going to really hit it as
far typically. So lengthen your swing, if you
increase like your range of motion, if you have no lower
body motion, you make that a little more.
Active, they'll probably help you hit it farther.
So it like that all the research and science stuff.
It's not really showing anything different than, like, what I
think a lot of teachers, kind of already intuitively know, just
from being on the Range. But, you know, maybe gives a
little bit of an Insight on to some of the inner workings but
again, there's no like the secret.
Yeah, there's no crazy secret, right?
Like in general and instruction, there's no, there's no real
secret. It also puts Optics of good
point we've talked before, but I think that's important for any
instructor notes. It up like to me, nobody's have
been there's variations of stuff out there but like no one person
has this. Eat deep insight into knowledge
that nobody else has. That's not what separates.
I don't think. No I mean I think I think the if
you're trying to become a great coach, in my mind, you're trying
to learn as much as you can that's out there, right?
So you are studying some of the biomechanics are learning from
other teachers. You're studying what great
players have done like knowing, you know, a variety of like all
these different swings of existed that have hit the ball
really well, But then, like trying to sort of fill your
brain with that information, you're trying to give a lot of
lessons to, you can do a lot of reps yourself just sort of
seeing all the different kind of like versions of swings and
faults and mrs. Or whatever.
And you're basically just trying to like become a really good
Problem. Solver right.
You're just trying to become like a really good detective of
sort. So for me, like if I were to
say, okay, what's the skill set that?
I feel like that I'm good at with my coaching, it's not
really the knowledge or any that it's just sort of like being in
the May be able to help someone solve a problem.
So like even at at Wingfoot on Saturday night with like,
Bryson, we were on the Range to whatever was 839 light late.
And, and it was is about sort of what was the problem.
Yeah. I mean he didn't really try
this. All he didn't hit it, great on
Saturday, right? So, and I, when he came out the
course I was like that's the round that when you use open
because he chipped and putted unbelievable.
Like there's so much great in that round but he did not hit a
great. So you know, like there's some
stuff with his swing. I couldn't have been out there
with them and help them solve their problem.
Yes, I had a ton of understanding of him as an
individual. It wasn't some sort of like,
biomechanics or trackman knowledge.
I mean, you know that information is kind of running
the backgrounds part of how you solve a problem.
Sure of, but it's really about knowing the player knowing his
Tendencies, having a tons of like time with them seeing
different mrs. Etc.
That in that moment, we were able to kind of think through it
and, and, and sort of, you know, get to a better place.
So, yeah. Did you change anything on the
Range, or did you reinforce what?
Already were doing. It wasn't like changing
something in terms of like, like new is more about.
Okay, this is what you typically do and you hid it.
Well, this is how it kind of got out of that for whatever reason
and we just sort of have to like reset it but thinking through
maybe why I got off, you know, from Friday from Friday's round
to Saturday's round. I was watching the whole
tournament inside on TV and I would actually film swings that
they had on The Telecast. So I had some strings on my
phone. Phone and we kind of talked
through it all that and I was just like, okay, this is kind of
what you're doing out there. Let's try to fix this, was it a
difficult deal or more? Just it's just hey, Trent it off
the toe, I love it. When you give me the text.
So what torque is this? All right, he's, he's walking up
to join us. Any more questions for coma?
Let's just do something simple like favorite.
Golf Course. Okay.
No Cyprus, no Augusta. No Pine Valley.
No seminal. Third course.
Here we go. You know, like those onto
manicures and cheese. I'm not like a huge like Golf
Course architecture guy. Like, you know, I mean I ribs
just got such like a place in my heart.
I grew up out there and and I love like, there's so many
things I love about River, just to me.
It's so interesting, like, grew up in that area like I would go
out when I was a kid and watch those at the time.
The nearest on open, though, they opened, I would I would go
out to that range with an old cannons.
ER, 10 and actually snuck onto the range when I was like 19 and
got a bunch of footage of elq. Davis, Love the third, Nick
price and I was just like I was just kicked out there filming
swings. Then someone eventually like
tapping the shirt, like you have a badge of it, they kick you out
the range so I just Have so many great memories of Riviera plus I
love the track plus it's a great place.
If you have a couple guys played a tournament, it's an awesome
course, like, watch people play because a lot of places where
you can just kind of camp out and go to different holes,
really easily. So ribs great.
Okay, this is my plug Shameless plug but like Dallas Nationals,
awesome track and it's the best course, probably that was
Shameless. I wouldn't even a mix now.
I know but it is I love that place is just such a great place
to mean for Texas and that's kind of where I spend most of my
time now. So whatever you really are.
Is it at their hot in Texas? Yeah, technically take.
Yeah. You don't spend much time
anywhere. Yeah.
We're more than ever more than 50%.
So yeah. So yeah, I'll go over it.
I'm over it. I'll see your golf cart.
What got you to mean? You are sure, right?
But what? So you video and swings when
you're 19, what got you into video and swings that took up
golf late. I took off and I was like 16
fish. I grew up playing hockey and
more. Anything really?
Yeah. Wayne Gretzky got traded to the
Kings. I was in high school and it was
like a huge hockey. Boom, in l.a.
Okay, and I caught up into that and then a friend of mines,
uncle took me golfing, kind of gotten a murder with it quickly
and you know, I guess in my mind I wanted to just like get really
good at the game and I thought if I study it I can sort of make
up for lost time. I can sort of speed up this
process of getting better at it by just like stunned the crap
out of it. So and I was just Obsessed the
game. So yeah, I would like read a
bunch of golf books. I would go find a bunch of
teachers that I thought, you know, I could learn from like
Adam Shriver, Brady Rigs. And then I just every chance I
could, I would, I would get footage you guys.
And, you know, at that time, this was like in the late 90s,
there wasn't like you to Bree have all these swings, his your
disposal, right? So you had to get it yourself.
So whenever the tournaments would come into town, I would go
out there with a camera. And, and guess what, food would
you decide you want to teach for a living?
Do what you do? Probably, I probably kind of
knew it even then deep down inside but like I just became my
shoulder. I was playing, I just gave my
shoulder and then when that happened, I was already like,
kind of teaching people that would be competing with this,
like kind of got this reputation of someone who, like, knew some
stuff about the golf swing, which in hindsight was, like not
accurate, right? Like crap.
But like, you know, just again, I had that reputation of it just
gimmick shoulder and it's like, okay, let me go down this path
to One percent. So anybody many more questions
for coma jumping? Yeah, I don't know if you've
ever worked with someone that's so act like and a little glaze
Bryson. What was your biggest challenge
whenever you took the step of like taking someone in your team
like that? My present?
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think, I think that's
probably some of the benefit of doing that kind of biomechanics
stuff is that, if you need to talk that language, like I need
to talk to someone like Bryson or, you know, like A Bob Grover
Sasha Mackenzie whatever like you know I kind of know the
language to where I can go down those rabbit holes and have
those conversations so it's not really.
It wasn't tough at all. I mean, I think in this part of,
in my opinion, part of like, you know, just coaching is, is sort
of being a chameleon of sorts where you're very adaptable,
you're very sort of, you know, flexible in the language you
use, depending on who you're working with and then a day it's
about communication. So, you know, I'm working with a
person and there's a sort of a set of words that they feel
comfortable with. I'm going to communicate in
those words because the whole idea is to convey something to
them, right? Like, whatever that is.
And if it's if it's talking to, you know, someone who maybe has
like a physical therapy background or whatever you're
going to, you're going to tend to use more kind of you know the
language of like whatever that whole world more like anatomical
motions type stuff because it's just it's simpler for the
communication with that person. So to me it's always about using
the Language that's going to help you communicate with the
person that you're, you're interacting with.
So you'd say that's probably what attracted Bryson to work
with you. And I think more just like my,
my thought process less about the language.
But more about how I kind of think through a problem, as I
think, where we, we have a lot of sort of, kind of similarities
and we have a lot of, like, good chemistry.
Yeah. You both really like problem
solving, yeah, but I guess, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Are we in fact, during You know, one of my previous stints in the
smiley years I've been you and I talk like and you enjoyed the
you enjoyed the delving into and trying to figure out in the
problem. So you talk.
Yep. Yep.
Yeah to me that's that's the fun of it's like every single
person's got their own kind of unique things that they do.
You know, what's the shot? They want to hit.
What's the Miss? They don't want to hit and then
trying to help them think through like why that happens,
you know, when the good stuff happens, why does it happen when
the bad stuff? Ins.
Why does that happen? That's it.
I'm a move away from Bryson. Come on me.
I could I don't think he's going to be the answer to this
question rights. But think of back over your
coaching career. Is there a some you did or a
decision with a player? Something like where you look
back on that you do that was stupid.
Oh yeah, I mean, okay, particular, when you ask me like
question, I was like the funniest thing.
I'm not asking you gotta have one good one in.
There were like and looking back on it.
Now that wasn't the best thing I ever did.
Yeah, there's there's a good player like I.
Oh, I mean I had a couple For sure.
I mean you like you're gonna make like mistakes, right?
I remember like when I first had like, started, like getting into
track, man. I had a guy good player and he
was a correctly. He was pretty out to n, and he
would hit it off the toe and hit these kind of like little baby
Fades, right? And everything else like off the
toe off the top stove and I was like, oh man, you gotta like you
gotta try to hit like center of the face type stuff.
Right? I'll sudden it's like balls like
going like 50 yards, right? Because he was using togeer
fact, kind of counteract. Okay?
So what a big cut, he's using a lot of like his towhead and
counteract that. And you know, for a minute there
I stayed on like man we got to get center of the face and it
just was like pulling teeth. It was just like, not that
didn't feel solid to him toe. Hits felt solid terms like his
whole perception of what air quotes solid was was, was based
upon this ecosystem that he created to create a usable ball
flight, which was Breaking off of a towhead so it was like
eventually we just like went back to.
It was like okay how do you manage that that toe hit was
just how he played golf? So it's one of those things
where, you know, you learn pretty quickly that like
something that sounds like an ideal scenario when you're
dealing with, like the ecosystem right tire?
Swing just doesn't work, right? You know, there's things like
you know, I remember one time I got I try to get a player, kind
of like, hit the ball, really high to get more lean the shaft
and just like he just completely lost control the face by trying
to lean it more. Or so stuff like that better
player. We're just like in this you know
kind of chasing idea of creating a certain ball flight.
Yeah. The potential like hurt.
Someone. If you're not really careful,
right? I think I've always been good
enough. Like, I've been like, sort of
aware nuff to kind of like not be super rich and be stuck on
something. Chase it too far.
Yeah, that you can kind of get out of it fairly quickly.
So like we were able to work out of it but it was like it was
like it was down that path. Enough time for long a period
time words, like that's not good for this.
Right? And and the whole thing, like
the way they solve it everything, there's the whole
they hit a higher ball flight. That's how they saw golf, right?
Just even when they hit it low earners like a good shot.
I was like it just didn't fit the way they played golf.
Yeah. So just kind of like that's just
sort of, you know, a rookie teacher mistakes, things like
that about another just mean to me to teaching higher level
Players Tour players adds an extra level of that.
Yeah they're already really good at doing things.
Yeah and I you know, that's Mentioned a couple times today,
like to me that's where you have to be careful because like with
your preference it's because you could change something that to
you would look better but totally screw them up.
Yeah. For port mean really more
matter-of-factly? Just not give many benefit.
Like it's just changing something to change something.
Yeah. Yeah.
So we talked today, we're doing a show and I said, where I
started with the student I was telling we were doing that
segment about the Rope. So when a new player comes to
you new to our player, I've been struggling it.
Where do you start with first thing?
You do ask a lot of questions. So if someone's already and
they're like a good player and if they've had some success,
like some real successes they've had for tour guy, I'm trying to
take in as much information as possible, like I'm asking them a
ton of questions if they had a window where they felt like they
played their best golf, I'm trying to get swings from that
time. It's like send me as many swings
from whatever it is 2015 when you you know, one whatever.
Tournament or whatever it is, right?
And I'm just really do my due diligence to understand what
they did when they played their best golf.
And just trying to kind of immerse myself and okay, what
was the swing like then? What was her body like then, why
did they move out of it? Where they trying to change
something swing wise? Was there some sort of like
environmental influence that pulled them out of that?
Just really trying to play detective.
Now if it's someone who is stay at or guy who has like, for
example, you know, always finished in like, you know, 100
on the List and they always they've never had a window where
they're like, oh, I played my best golf here.
Like I've always kind of struggled to keep my card type
of thing. That's a totally different
animal, right? Because you don't have that
precedent of what they did when they play their best golf.
That's also a really tricky situation because if you don't
handle that right, make sure they want to like be a better
golfer but they could like it that lose their job, right?
Because a little bit worse for them is off the tour 100%.
And if that's a big threshold you know on the tort off the
tour is like that the difference between being 1/25 on the money
list and 126 on the money list is massive hundred percent,
right? So you got to be like super
careful in those situations like with some like that I'm often
times taking at least to start out with as you know, like
non-invasive of as tragic as possible.
Like I'm getting a lot of stats from say someone like Brody and
trying to see if there's any parts that are game that, you
know, are just off because of maybe the way they practice
time, allocation things like that.
All right, things when your Tour event people that you don't
teach that you'll stop and watch do something that it could be
putting chipping ball striking driving.
I love watching a, Phil hit pitch shots.
I mean, I remember it seen Andrews 15 using these pitch
shots of just, like, it's crazy because, like, a lot of people
when they spin it, like their Spinners are coming out low
right? Are they hit it high?
They lose a lot of spin, sort of flop and just kind of will stop
more because the trajectory Phil and Tiger Woods Sarah kind of
the only guys I have seen, you can hit it high with a lot of
Spin and he was seeing these shots that seen Angela
practitioners like it was almost like I don't know what exactly
is doing it. It's almost like he's
ricocheting. The club off the ground into the
ball and it just like had so much spinning is ridiculous.
So Phil's always fun to watch around the greens.
I love watching Xander, putt standards rolls.
It just looks so solid. He works the dairy QE2 they've
done an awesome job with his game.
On the greens. Rory's always fun.
Watch. Hmm.
He's fun to watch her to go for drivers but not so great and
I've had no your guy drives super long, but man, when Rory's
driving it good, it's pretty, it's pretty.
Yeah. And you said I can mention one
like that's because yes, you can't go ahead.
He said, yeah, he said it said, have you changed my life in a
driver too? Okay, yeah.
Let's just say I feel like we should let you say.
Yeah, it's impressive but but Rory's Roy is really fun to
watch. Swing a golf club the great.
Yeah. That's one of those ones.
That when you're walking down, the Range there.
Aren't many people. I've walked down range and where
I stopped and I think DJ hit drivers is impressive.
Yeah, for sure. What was it?
What was maybe terrific what year was 2011?
Maybe I was at Augusta. I was I was there as a suspect
as a patron, Patron. Sorry my get banging and I he
was having these like nippy wedges that had like fair amount
of like writes a lot of moving on them and they just look so
awesome off the face. Yeah.
Roy iron player sir. Just cool to watch.
It's got the cool side. He's got search.
It's a little bit like the throwback to like, swerve
romanticizing, the guys who like take a dip in it.
You know, has like a cool sound good that you know what I think
at the end of the day it's like look if I get hit like a guy
like Hogan or Trevino obviously had a great and the again they
get a little romanticize because of like the ball flight school
to take a dip. It's got a cool sound to it but
it's like if I could have anybody's sort of ball-striking
prowess and the history of the game, it's like Nicholas, right?
Like straight up straight up in the air and stop it on Fast
greens. Like, what more do you want for
winning a big-time tournaments, right?
It's surprising to me. You do not want to, like, how
few people talk about how good is about his golf swing.
You know, everybody talks about his majors and how he played
where as he did. So good right here, it's so
good. Yeah, absolutely.
It's crazy though. How, you know people get locked
in on certain golf swings? Everybody tried to make people
swing like tiger and 2000. He's pretty good and sure, the
Palisades it going to copy because of like, how well he hit
it, not because the Aesthetics per se, right?
Where's a guy like Nicholas hit? It really, really well, but he's
less copied because he may not have like this sort of like
cemetry, that people seem to gravitate toward.
And I think people like that. That visual like, oh, it's kind
of mean more or less going up on one plane and down on the plane
right on the same plane. And it's like, well, you know, I
just kind of care where the ball is going.
Yeah, any more questions for Como favorite swing of all times
that Jack Nicklaus? I mean it's probably tiger
because tiger probably did hit it as good as as from a purely
sort of functional perspective that's probably the best image
that ever had to golf golf ball. So he just happened to have both
sort of the the functionality and the Aesthetics of it.
I just think the section kind of like fully sometimes right but
the functionality was still there.
So so by that definition I would still Tiger, you ever have a
golf swing that you look at with your eye and you're like me and
it's not that good. But then you load you, slow it
down. You look at different things in
your like, this is really good. Yeah, sure.
Although I think, I think I'm pretty good about not getting
fooled by like a lot and sort of like picking up on what a guys
doing through the ball and that to me is like really kind of
what matters. But yes we have today it's like
you know, you get a swing and You know, it may have a lot of
like craziness to it, right? But then you start to friend,
Matt? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Through the ball. We watch it.
Watch the ball and he's watching even watching through the ball,
right? If you were to just sort of like
you're saying slow it down through the ball, you're like
that's awesome, right? That's gonna get done.
There's nothing unorthodox about the way he works.
Works at through, not at all and just filmed that part.
Everybody try to teach that. Yeah.
Right. That would be particularly the
teachers book at. Yeah, Chris You're the best for
some, you're a legend. Thanks Tony.
I'd like your every week. I thank you.