1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,400 What kind of putter do you think about when you think about 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:06,480 broomstick or long putters taking off over the last few 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:08,520 years? Well, you think about lab 4 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:10,240 putters. You think about. 5 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:14,920 Adam Scott, Lucas Glover, all these guys that have adopted lab 6 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:17,960 sweeper putters. Today we're sitting down with 7 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:21,440 Sam Hahn. He is the CEO at lab and has 8 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,400 been a part of all of these conversations with Adam and 9 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:28,160 these guys as they've switched to the sweeper style of putter. 10 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,280 So I thought it'd be awesome today to learn from him 11 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,360 everything that has gone on in this journey from the first one 12 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,120 they made-up into right now, what they're saying, what's most 13 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,840 popular, what are people buying, and what does he think the 14 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,400 future of sweeper putters is like? 15 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,320 Plus, he's very interesting and controversial. 16 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:46,960 Thoughts on armlock putting? So great episode. 17 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,240 We are in a full series on alternative putting styles. 18 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,360 Make sure to subscribe whether you're on YouTube, Spotify, 19 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:54,040 Apple Podcast, whatever it is I'd. 20 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,360 Appreciate it if you followed. Along we have so much 21 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,960 interesting stuff to come. We have great coaches and 22 00:00:59,960 --> 00:01:03,040 equipment, people and players. They're going to keep telling 23 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,120 the story of why are more and more people switching to 24 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:08,800 alternative putting styles. All right, let's get into this 25 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:16,000 with Sam. OK, I, I just want to start 26 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:20,600 with, we'll just go back to when you first first heard about a 27 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:22,080 sweeper. Someone asked you to make a 28 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:23,200 sweeper. Like what? 29 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,720 What's your first first memory of that that you have? 30 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:31,840 Back in 2019, the first kind of big break on the On the tour was 31 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:33,800 with Adam Scott. Adam Scott played with Kelly 32 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,760 Slater and used a conventional version of the Directive Force 33 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,520 2.1 for, I don't know, probably four or five months. 34 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:42,480 Yeah, used that red one right with. 35 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:44,160 Like the red one? Yeah, it was in the masters 36 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:48,520 through 2 days and using that putter, yeah, ultimately went, 37 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:52,080 you know, got cold with it and asked us if you if we could make 38 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:56,440 him a sweeper. And at the time we didn't have 39 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:02,560 Harold like this. So we were originally balancing 40 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:08,320 them with just a a port here and we were putting sand and 41 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:12,360 tungsten in there and then over here and we didn't have any of 42 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:13,800 the weights on the bottom or anything. 43 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,440 So adding weight to it was just not feasible. 44 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:23,280 So what Bill did was like basically made a sheet of lead 45 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,840 tape. I mean it truly was about that 46 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,640 thick covering the bottom of the putter and then underneath kind 47 00:02:30,640 --> 00:02:32,960 of the top layer, which he did this beautiful job of making it 48 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:36,640 look all smooth and you know, really wide thing and razor cut 49 00:02:36,640 --> 00:02:39,000 and everything. He balanced it, you know, so he 50 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,760 had to balance it first before covering it with like this, you 51 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:43,880 know, smooth layer. So it wasn't all jacked up on 52 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:45,520 the bottom and it took him forever. 53 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,920 He made like two or three of them for for Adam to try. 54 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:54,000 He didn't like him and you know, just what he had used prior. 55 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,120 The DF just had way too much onset. 56 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:00,280 And so at the time, the only two models that we had were the DF 57 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,800 2.1 and we had the, IT was actually blade one, which very 58 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:09,560 quickly turned into the B2 and the B2 we realized that between, 59 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:11,480 because it was such a symmetrical design, kind of 60 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:13,400 blowing it up and shrinking it down was like nothing. 61 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,360 We realized we can mess with that one, particularly because 62 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:17,800 we could use brass too. So it was really heavy. 63 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:21,280 So we so we started prototyping those. 64 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,320 And so I had never used a long powder in my entire life. 65 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:31,400 And the 1st B2, we called it the bomber, the the 1st B2 bomber 66 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:38,520 that we made in a sweeper produced, you know, like we were 67 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,240 like, I'd never used one before and all I cared about was just 68 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,160 making them feel good. There was some pretty good 69 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,160 timing that happened as well around shafts, which we should 70 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,880 talk about. But prior any long putter had 71 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,200 just used a ski pole shaft. And while they were, you know, 72 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:56,000 they were heavy, they were heavy enough to, you know, to do it, 73 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,000 but they were still steel and they were really flexible. 74 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:02,720 And it's something that does make long putters really hard to 75 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:07,800 use. LA Golf had just started, had 76 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:12,360 just acquired OSIC her matrix and and they were making shafts 77 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,960 for Bryson at the time that were just, you know, psychotically 78 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:18,240 rigid. And and so we got a few of those 79 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,000 to put in in some of these and it made a huge difference. 80 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:28,920 So the so I had AAB 2 long with an OSIC 180 gram shaft in it. 81 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:34,160 That was, you know, like rebar and what followed for me, Well, 82 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:36,800 well, first I'm like using it and testing it and we're trying 83 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:38,840 to make them feel good and we're putting grooves in them and 84 00:04:38,840 --> 00:04:40,960 we're changing the weight and we're, you know, trying to 85 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:42,520 figure it out. And like I, you know, through 86 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:46,320 this kind of two 3-4 weeks of, of prototyping these, it like 87 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:47,760 occurred to me, I'm like, I don't think I've missed a putt 88 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:49,560 inside of 10 feet in like a month. 89 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:54,640 And, and I didn't really think through a technique or what I 90 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,160 was doing. My only concern personally was 91 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,440 making sure that nobody ever accused me of anchoring. 92 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:04,600 And So what I was doing was holding it like this so that it 93 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:08,000 was so far away from my chest that nobody would ever, you 94 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,280 know, do it. And I was like, and I was like 95 00:05:10,280 --> 00:05:13,400 this. So I'm putting so well, my 96 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,240 friends are calling me the janitor, you know, just like it 97 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:21,360 was a thing, like it was stupid. And my speed actually wasn't 98 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,920 great with that one because it was just, it had such low Moi 99 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,000 that anytime I missed it, I was coming up, you know, 8 feet 100 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,880 short and it didn't matter. I made the 8 footer every single 101 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,160 time. Like it was just absolutely 102 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:37,960 uncanny. So Fast forward about, you know, 103 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,480 7-8 months, I'm committed to this putter. 104 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:44,280 I am so and I'm making everything play with a guy named 105 00:05:44,280 --> 00:05:46,720 Craig winner. Craig's one of the higher ups at 106 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:53,000 the USGA and he's he's the fellow who's on NBC like when 107 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:54,840 they have a rules question at the US Open. 108 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,000 That's him. He's great dude. 109 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,640 He's he's from around here and he was he used to work for the 110 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:01,560 Oregon Golf Association. He was just in time visit. 111 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,160 He were playing some golf, put on the 13th hole and I'm kicking 112 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,080 his butt and I make AI make a 15 footer or something like that, 113 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,440 you know, putting the way I do. And he comes up and he goes, he 114 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,000 goes like that. He's like, so you've been 115 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:13,880 cheating this whole time. Like, what the hell are you 116 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:15,240 talking about? I'm not even close. 117 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:20,600 And apparently the fact that my forearm was touching my rib cage 118 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:26,720 below the elbow meant that I was anchoring and I was so pissed 119 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:31,120 like, and you know, so, so that seven months of unbelievable 120 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:35,120 putting was illegal. I was, I was going against the 121 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,200 rules and I had no idea. I just thought the putter 122 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,640 couldn't touch you anywhere. And for me that I actually for 123 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,080 the most part ended my, my sweeping career. 124 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,080 I, I've, I've dabbled here and there and, you know, tried to 125 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,440 get back into it and haven't quite gotten there, but. 126 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,400 Wait, I had no idea. So I have her with with an arm 127 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,600 lock putter, right? Like it can't go past the elbow, 128 00:06:57,760 --> 00:06:58,720 right? Correct. 129 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,600 But that also is with any kind of club like you can't have. 130 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:08,280 Your You can't anchor anything to your body below the elbow. 131 00:07:08,280 --> 00:07:11,440 So so so. This is fine. 132 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:13,760 This is not. Yeah. 133 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:22,880 Or if I'm holding it up here, I can't put my forearm against my 134 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,280 rib cage like this. And so like, what upsets, you 135 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,560 know what, what I mean? They, they just whiffed on that 136 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,920 rule so bad, which by the way, I said to Craig when he said that 137 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:32,960 I was like, man, they whiffed on that so, so hard. 138 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,080 He was like, you mean we, I was like easy. 139 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:41,040 But like, I know a dude who I don't know if you can see me 140 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:47,040 here, my friend Raj like has the weirdest body and like 100% he 141 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,120 puts conventionally, but 100% like his forearms are touching 142 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,400 his his body and he just, you know, makes a body turn. 143 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:55,960 So is that illegal? You know, like technically I 144 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:57,800 guess it is. But anyway, yes, you cannot. 145 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:03,920 And that's where Bernhard takes a lot of crap is like he's not 146 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:05,560 anchoring. Like for anybody that thinks 147 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,560 that he is like I've been up close and personal with the guy. 148 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,360 I've watched him play competitive rounds. 149 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:13,160 I've watched him on the practice screen. 150 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:15,360 He wears A baggy shirt. Yes, like it. 151 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,600 I know it rattles around and they're like, I assure you the 152 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:23,680 guy is not touching his body. However, what you will see a lot 153 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,560 of times when he goes through, you'll see if you look at my, my 154 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:31,440 forearm here, you'll see it like it's not there when he starts. 155 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,880 But on the way through, you know, sometimes it'll, it'll 156 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,559 make contact, which I don't know if that's against the rules or 157 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,799 not, but yeah, it's, it's a bit of a mess. 158 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:46,440 OK, so your first experience with the sweeper idea was like 159 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,000 personally you're like, oh, this is cool. 160 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,760 Like this is this is this is interesting. 161 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,520 Then it faded away. And only as a means by by which 162 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,960 to prototype for Adam. Like I never never would have 163 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,680 occurred to me or us to spend that much time screwing around 164 00:08:59,680 --> 00:09:02,280 with longs. So the main challenge with 165 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:06,200 making one was the weight. Why is weight important with a 166 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:10,400 putter like this? So when when you know when they 167 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:14,160 get really long, it's it's it's just worth trying to to feel at 168 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:15,520 some point. But if you just put a normal 169 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:21,320 kind of 350 to 380 gram head at the end of a shaft that's, you 170 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,800 know, 44 inches long or 47 inches long or whatever it is, 171 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,720 it's just crazy light. Just doesn't, the head just 172 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,440 completely disappears on you and you just, you don't know where 173 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:33,840 it's at. Now personally, I think that the 174 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,560 industry standards which have them up around 500 grams and I 175 00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:37,880 think that's too heavy personally. 176 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:39,720 But it's different for everybody. 177 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,520 It's no different than then then with conventional putters or 178 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,240 some people like them light and some people like them heavy. 179 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,040 The difference is the actual number of grams that makes it 180 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:50,480 feel light versus heavy is just more because it's a bigger 181 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,760 putter, it's a bigger head, it's a bigger everything. 182 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:56,760 You know, like Adam's putter, Adam Scott's putter is 508 183 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,880 grams, I want to say 512 or something like that. 184 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:05,840 And then Charles Schwartzel's using one that I want to say is 185 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,200 at 450 O you know, a 60 gram difference, which in a 186 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,400 conventional putter, 60 grams different in either direction 187 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:17,560 from stock is unusable, but with a sweeper, not quite as much. 188 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:20,360 Yeah. So they they got it. 189 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,840 They got to take on more weight than a conventional putter for 190 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:24,400 sure. Minimum 425. 191 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,240 Otherwise you just can't feel where they are. 192 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,560 What's like the normal it Adams? I'm assuming you're talking 193 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,320 about the the mesmax. What's a normal mesmax like 194 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,600 conventional putter weight? Depends on length, but they're 195 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,560 going to be right around 370 OK. Got it so there's a little 196 00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:42,920 comparison 370 to 512 something like that would be the 197 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:43,560 difference. OK. 198 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:47,040 The the other challenge that you mentioned of it was the the 199 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,960 shaft of like right the old school way of having a steel 200 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,960 shaft very heavy and like now you have all these graphite 201 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,440 options available. Was that like do you feel like 202 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:02,440 why this can now be more of a good option is because. 100% I 203 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,520 think it's well, So what I've noticed as I watch people who 204 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,120 try them over the years is like less so lately now that it's 205 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:13,520 been a bit more normalized. But like when I was, when I was 206 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,680 using 1, you know, people would come up and they'd literally 207 00:11:16,680 --> 00:11:20,040 like give it one wiggle and be like, no, no, no, that's not for 208 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,520 me. And, and I think that the shaft 209 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,320 had a lot to do with that, like when we were prototyping first 210 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:31,760 with ski poles before the LA came along, you can feel it. 211 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,960 You can just feel so much play in the shaft and feel his head 212 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,640 wobbling around and it's heavy and it's cumbersome and it's 213 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,560 just, it was just weird to use. I think that the carbon fiber, 214 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,960 you know, innovations in shafts around long putters and stuff 215 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,880 like that is a huge part of the reason that a normal app, you 216 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:50,920 know, a normal player can tolerate them. 217 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:53,600 When you're dealing with the, the flexible ones. 218 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,800 Now all the sudden timing is really important when you've got 219 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,640 a flexible shaft and your your stroke timing, your transition 220 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:04,680 timing, all that stuff. And I think that made them that 221 00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:07,000 much harder to use for the average golfer. 222 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,920 Now with these just, you know, ramrod stiff carbon fiber 223 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,680 shafts, you can, you know, feel where the head is a bit more and 224 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:15,120 have a little bit more control of it. 225 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,800 I think that's part of what's helped it the mainstream itself. 226 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,720 How just to try to understand these, these new kind of shafts 227 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:25,360 that they're using, are they like stiffer than an X stiff 228 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,840 driver shaft, like infinitely more stiffer or like was that 229 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:30,520 ever an idea? Like we're just going to throw 230 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,560 it an X stiff into this and see if it works. 231 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,840 So take take long times out of the equation for a second. 232 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:42,920 Like what what we know for sure is, is that from a performance 233 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,600 standpoint, I wouldn't say this is 100%, but damn close call it 234 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,880 95% of people are going to perform better, particularly 235 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,440 from long range with a stiffer Potter shaft shaft do flex and 236 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,000 they do recover. And and kind of timing that up 237 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,680 when there's a lot of play, particularly in the tip can be 238 00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:02,640 challenging for people and creates a lot of miss hits and 239 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,840 and goofiness like that. And this isn't like new 240 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,520 knowledge. However, if you just took an 241 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:12,600 X100 and, you know, tipped it 2 inches and, and put it in your 242 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:14,560 Newport, like, it just feels like crap. 243 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,400 Like they're just, they're just so rigid and like the auditory 244 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,160 and the, the tactile response is it's just not good. 245 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:22,520 It just doesn't feel good enough. 246 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:24,960 And so historically, Potter shafts have kind of tried to 247 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:29,720 find some balance between, you know, soft enough that they feel 248 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,240 good and are responsive and stiff enough that you know that 249 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,760 they're not noodles. Now most companies used to go 250 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,880 the other direction and make them like noodles because if 251 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:42,680 you're not putting from anything longer than 20 feet, a soft 252 00:13:42,680 --> 00:13:45,520 shaft feels awesome. Just in the same way that when 253 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,840 you pick up, you know, your sister's club or, you know, a 254 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,920 ladies flex or junior flex, something like you, you, you 255 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:53,960 take that one swing at the driving range like, oh, I felt 256 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,560 really good, you know, but it's not actually sustainable because 257 00:13:57,560 --> 00:13:59,600 it, you know, the dispersion is all over the place. 258 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:00,880 It's no different with putter shafts. 259 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:06,840 So the ski pole was there in, in, in, in some of the long 260 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:08,960 putter guys like what's his name? 261 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:13,360 Scott McCarron has this like very specific ski pole that he 262 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,720 used that was very stiff, not stiffer than the carbon stuff, 263 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,400 but still very stiff. And and he and he was adamant 264 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,080 that we use those whenever we build them. 265 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,360 He's got like a stash of like 50 of them left because nobody 266 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,920 makes a ski pole anymore. But so, yeah, the ski poles were 267 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,560 kind of the only option for for heads that were that heavy. 268 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,120 And it was a specially made shaft because they were long, 269 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,640 because most of the long putters when they first started coming 270 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:40,040 out were well over 45 inches. They were, you know, you know, 271 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,880 some up in the 50 range, they were 50 inches long. 272 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,960 So there was no such thing as a 50 inch long driver shaft or 273 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,280 iron shaft or whatever. So this was, these were made 274 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:50,920 just for these putters. And yeah, they were made out of 275 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,520 steel and, you know, save on cost or whatever and 276 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:55,640 inconsistencies. The walls weren't thick enough 277 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:57,840 because if they got any thicker, the shaft would be too heavy. 278 00:14:57,840 --> 00:14:59,960 And there was just they, you know, they're, they were, 279 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:04,040 there's always so many places they could go until carbon fiber 280 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:04,840 came along. Got it. 281 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:10,000 So what was the first like first sweeper putter that you had 282 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,080 success went with? What was the what was the first 283 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:15,200 aha moment of like? Oh, we might be on to something. 284 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:20,680 So we knew even when Bill was putting, you know, a blanket of 285 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,640 lead tape on the bottom of a 2.1 that the technology lent itself 286 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:27,560 brilliantly to the method. I mean, it's perfect. 287 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,040 It's a perfect match made in heaven, fellow playing upright 288 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:31,720 lie angle, very little face rotation. 289 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:33,200 I mean, it's it was just perfect. 290 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,080 We also at the same time recognize that that they were 291 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,560 that the DF 2.1 was just a little bit too onset for most 292 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,160 people, particularly for people that were already using 293 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,880 sweepers, which we felt at the time was our market. 294 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,840 We weren't, we had no intention of like making, you know, like, 295 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,600 like making a push to get people who weren't interested in a long 296 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:52,760 putter interested in a long putter. 297 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:54,240 That wasn't part of the plan at all. 298 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:03,480 So the bomber looked better. You know, it had very little 299 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,760 onset. And you know, before we we came 300 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,560 on here, you and I were talking about that, that the the ping 301 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:11,120 banana. I forget what the what it's 302 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:16,520 called, but you know, it was kind of in that same vein, just 303 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:20,280 a very, very simple putter weight was up, caught it out of 304 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,480 the middle. It felt good, but it was the Moi 305 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,000 was just so poor and the off center strikes were so harsh and 306 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:27,680 brutal that it never really took. 307 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,720 It wasn't an you know, and and and then you know, Adam stopped 308 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,040 using the 2.1. He went back to a Cameron long. 309 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,880 And so just kind of in the back of our heads, we always wanted 310 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:39,640 to figure out something for Adam. 311 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:45,360 So we started work on the Mez in late 2019. 312 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:49,880 I want to say maybe early 2020. And it was a little putter like 313 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:54,800 the, the Mez 1, not the Mez Max, the Mez 1 is, it's a tiny little 314 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,120 thing. Kevin Martin, who's one of our 315 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,160 engineers and at the time was the engineer. 316 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,640 I mean, he was, you know, the whole, he was our entire R&D 317 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:07,160 department in one, you know, he and I were talking and we just, 318 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,599 wouldn't it be nice if we can figure out to make one of these 319 00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:11,920 for Adam. So Kevin, you know, did some CAD 320 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,400 work, blew the thing up and, you know, had to move some stuff 321 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:15,680 around to make room for more weight. 322 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,280 So we could, you know, load it up with mostly 18g tungsten 323 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,000 weights. And lo and behold, he was able 324 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:26,040 to to to prototype the the Mez XL we were calling it at the 325 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:27,480 time. And then it eventually, you 326 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:32,160 know, morphed into the Mez Max Quick sidebar, it was only 327 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,080 intended to be for arm locks and sweepers. 328 00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:38,720 And then Liam Bedford, who's works there, you know, does all 329 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:39,880 the tour builds and all that stuff. 330 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,400 He was just screwing around one day and made one with a 331 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,360 conventional length and weight and all the stuff. 332 00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:47,920 And that's what gave birth to the Mez Max as a conventional 333 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:48,880 offering, but neither here nor there. 334 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:56,560 Anyway, so we make this Mez XL and it's just raw aluminum and 335 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:01,360 pretty rugged looking and and then we sent it to Adam and 336 00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:04,840 never heard from him and like summer. 337 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:09,600 And then it would have been like probably two or three months 338 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,800 later, out of the blue, he calls and he's like, you know, I 339 00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:15,320 demeaned to catch up with you. You know, I want you to know 340 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:20,000 that this Meslong that you've that you guys have made is the 341 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:21,880 best performing putter I've ever used, period. 342 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:27,000 And this was like late fall or like November, I think when he 343 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,560 goes to, to the Middle East to play a bit. 344 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:33,160 And that was the first time he, he putted with it. 345 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,200 And he was putting with this shitty raw prototype that was, 346 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:38,240 you know, raw aluminum scratches really easy. 347 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,560 I mean, it looks like hell, like it was just this, it was a piece 348 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,400 of crap. And we so then we're like, oh 349 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,720 wow, you like it. So now we make like 6 of them 350 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:47,760 with different shafts and different configurations and 351 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:49,960 different whatever. Ship it to Dubai and he never 352 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,320 got it because Dubai customs is a mess. 353 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:56,040 But anyway, that was kind of the beginning of the the journey 354 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:57,720 with him. And then once he was kind of in, 355 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,480 then we started getting some real feedback, you know, like, 356 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,440 you know, I mean, here's a guy that's been using long putters 357 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:04,720 for, you know, 10 years at least at the time. 358 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:09,400 And and then he really helped us, you know, kind of drill down 359 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,760 and make these things awesome. Wow, that's amazing. 360 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:17,160 OK, so he starts using the the meson Max and then I guess did 361 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,320 did that just kind of immediately snowball because 362 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,920 people just started asking like hey, what is this thing? 363 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,200 How do I get one? And then it just kind of started 364 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:25,520 going from there. Was that the? 365 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:29,760 Gist, I mean, first of all, he putted really well with it, you 366 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:34,360 know, So yes, there started being some inquiries and we'd 367 00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:36,720 sell a few here and there to Adam Scott fans. 368 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:41,800 But again, we didn't think there was any opportunity to expand 369 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,160 the sweeper market. We pretty much figured that 370 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,760 anybody who uses 1 uses 1 and that's those, that's the only 371 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,480 addressable market is people that are in their two balls or, 372 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,320 you know, whatever else. So there wasn't like a huge, you 373 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:57,200 know, push for this thing other than in the drop down menu on 374 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:58,480 the custom side. It was an option. 375 00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:04,000 And but we, you know, we would sell a few. 376 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,160 I, I wish I still had the numbers off the top of my head. 377 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,160 I used to have I'll be able to figure it out. 378 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,560 But we I want to say so. So yeah, on tour wasn't really 379 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,000 taking other than guys that you'd already used it. 380 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,200 There was some Champions Tour guys that reached out and wanted 381 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,680 to try them and, you know, did pretty well, but like nobody was 382 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:29,680 like converting to them. And then as, as the story goes, 383 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:34,800 Lucas Glover's agent walked out to one of our reps and said just 384 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,400 make one just like Adam Scott's for Lucas. 385 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,840 And Lucas was at a point where he was either going to start 386 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:45,080 putting left-handed or he was going to try, you know, the long 387 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:49,320 putter. He he gets the putter, he he 388 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:54,240 works with it for not that long, goes and plays in the US Open 389 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:58,480 qualifier, shoot 63 in the first round, even in the second round 390 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,400 and ends up in a playoff. And I had heard that Lucas had 391 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:02,680 got this putter. I didn't work with him. 392 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:06,280 And all this was all Liam. And that night, golf's longest 393 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,560 day, you know, the, all the, the, you know, local qualifiers 394 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:15,040 and everything. I, I, I, I turn on Golf Channel 395 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,200 and the very first thing is Lucas Glover missing an 18 inch 396 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,160 putt with a mesmax sweeper to lose out in the playoffs. 397 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:26,400 I'm like, yeah, well, there goes Lucas and, you know, assuming 398 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:30,120 we'd never see it again. And and then apparently he 399 00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:32,800 called Liam that night and said like, dude, I am in. 400 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:38,120 And because, you know, he missing 18 inch putts was not 401 00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:40,480 something he was wasn't terribly used to at the time. 402 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,960 And meanwhile through the rest of the day, he made a ton. 403 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,720 And so he was stoked from that moment forward. 404 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:51,000 He didn't finish outside the top 6 for the next 5 weeks and then 405 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,440 1 twice, you know, in the, in the, in the FedEx Cup playoffs 406 00:21:55,440 --> 00:22:00,200 in, in 2023, won two in a row. So I, I could be wrong on this, 407 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,800 but I'm pretty sure I've got it right to. 408 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:07,560 So that was in early August that he won back-to-back. 409 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:13,680 I want to say that between June, January 1 and July 31st of 2023 410 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:20,360 total, I think that we had sold like 200 sweepers over the 411 00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:23,240 course of those seven months. And then we sold 2500 the 412 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,320 following Monday, followed by about 1000 a day for like the 413 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:33,000 next 10 days, you know, like it just was sweeper madness, you 414 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,040 know, and and I think, you know, it's just because of how well 415 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,800 documented his struggles were. You know, poor guy that one 416 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:44,000 Putty had for 59 at Greensboro and in 2021 is like, you know, 417 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,640 on everybody's, you know, top ten, all time greatest whiff, 418 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,520 you know, putts. And so everybody knew how bad he 419 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,960 was putting. And then to see, you know, a guy 420 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,480 come from relative obscurity at the time to winning to, you 421 00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,120 know, to winning back-to-back tournaments. 422 00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:02,000 I mean, you know, everybody's like, I think I better give that 423 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,000 a try. And I think that part of it too 424 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:11,000 was like, you know, the shaft and the cooler looking head and 425 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,840 lab being kind of a cool thing. Like all the sudden it wasn't 426 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:21,160 just like super Yippy 65 plus year old golf dorks that we're 427 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:22,960 using sweepers. Like he kind of made it look 428 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:24,760 cool. And then and then combine that 429 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,800 with Adam, right? So now there's Lucas and Adam 430 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,880 who are both in this incredibly athletic posture and their 431 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:34,000 strokes look like good versus, you know, kind of the dumpy old 432 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,840 guys that are standing straight up and you know, it doesn't look 433 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:38,360 particularly graceful or anything. 434 00:23:38,360 --> 00:23:41,040 I think those two guys, Lucas and Adam, like all the sudden 435 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,280 kind of made it, you know, a little bit more mainstream. 436 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,520 Yeah, I, I find it fascinating that it was like it took both of 437 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,320 them and kind of like to get the whole thing going, but then it 438 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,480 was those wins. And maybe it was because, like 439 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,160 we all just felt like this like, oh, man, like I'm kind of a 440 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,040 crappy putter. And like, you know, he did it. 441 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,520 Maybe I can do it too. You know, maybe it was that like 442 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,640 relatability and empathy that we all were like, you know, I'm, 443 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,920 I'm in on this. For the record, I think I, I had 444 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,720 one before he did. So I, I just want to get that on 445 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,280 the, on the public public document. 446 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,160 So I did not, I was not part of the trend. 447 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:15,120 I was pre trained. You're not. 448 00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:17,840 You're not a bandwagoner, not a. Bandwagon I. 449 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:23,880 Mean, I think, yeah, I think that he I mean, in general, like 450 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,560 any alternative to anything that is traditional in golf just 451 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,520 takes a lot of shit, you know, like, and it's so funny, you 452 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:37,200 know, you know, we especially, you know, here in Lavland where, 453 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,440 you know, we arrived on the market with the world's ugliest 454 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:45,680 putter and in like there isn't there is not a single iconic 455 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,440 game changing technology in golf that has ever arrived on the 456 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,720 market as anything other than the ugliest thing that anybody 457 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,000 had ever seen, with the possible exception of the OR with the 458 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,320 exception of the four pieces fall when graphite chest came 459 00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,000 around. Like, no, I'm never using those. 460 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,280 You don't need all that as the steel's just fine. 461 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,440 I worked for my grandfather, worked for my dad and it works 462 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,240 for me, for Simmons. You know, the Big Bertha came 463 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,480 out and people were just like, I will never, ever use that as 464 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,920 long as I live. I'll never put that monstrosity 465 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,440 in my bag. The ping answer, you know, which 466 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,560 70 years later is the standard of beauty. 467 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,640 Carson Soheim sat on the side of PGA Tour putting greens with 468 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,000 people saying the exact same stuff to him that they did to 469 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:23,880 us. I would sooner 3 putt than put 470 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,440 that thing in my bag. And I think it's the same thing 471 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,920 with longs. I think the reason long putters 472 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:34,600 and sweepers have taken longer to sort of catch on as a as a 473 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:39,000 legitimate and viable option for people is that there were so few 474 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,560 people using them. They weren't particularly 475 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,640 available and there wasn't much success, you know, like because 476 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,080 there was such a small piece, you know, pool of people giving 477 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,720 it a try. And the people who did give it a 478 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,040 try probably didn't try it for very long, you know, before they 479 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:55,560 were throwing in the towel on it. 480 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:57,920 I think you Add all that up and that's why it's been a little 481 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,000 bit of a longer Rd. for for sweepers. 482 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,240 I mean, you know, you and I were talking before this. 483 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,000 I think Rocco Media was the first person to win with a long 484 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,080 putter. And I want to say it was 95. 485 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:08,760 Is that right? I. 486 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:10,560 Think it was, I think it was like 91 or something. 487 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,680 It was even early. Yeah, that that could be, you 488 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,680 know, so they've been around, but just, you know, there just 489 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,440 hasn't been anybody that wanted to do it. 490 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:25,040 And I think that Adam Adam's interesting his influence was, 491 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:29,120 was two people, one fellow named Sam Reeves, who if you if you 492 00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:32,280 know, kind of the the sounds much more derogatory than I mean 493 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,840 it, but you know, like it's like California golf Mafia. 494 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,600 Like there's, you know, 3 three dozen guys that are, you know, 495 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,720 deeply involved in everything golf. 496 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,600 They're all great guys and Sam's a very, very special human being 497 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,960 and a great player. I think he's still regularly 498 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,240 breaks his age at I think he's 92 and he still plays four times 499 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,600 a week and he's awesome guy. He uses along. 500 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,360 That's who you know, Adam got it from. 501 00:26:54,360 --> 00:27:00,480 And I think that had Adam not, you know, missed horse short 502 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,680 putts in a row in 2012, you know, at the open and then gone 503 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:10,520 to a long, you know, if he had just done it because he was just 504 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,680 putting better with it, I think it probably would have caught on 505 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,440 quicker than it did because he's always looked cool using 1, you 506 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,520 know, like his the way that he sets up, it's very graceful and 507 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,640 movable. But everybody just assumed it 508 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:23,160 was a crutch. And nobody wants to admit that 509 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,760 they need a crutch. And I think that that's changing 510 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:27,640 too. I think people are much more 511 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:32,040 willing to admit that they need help than they used to be. 512 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,800 I think there's a something going on in the game that makes 513 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,880 people a little bit more humble about the gear that they're 514 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:39,680 selecting. I think there's another aspect 515 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,360 too of, you know, I've been playing since before I can 516 00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:45,560 remember and there's something fun about learning something new 517 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,160 as well that just can, I don't know, revitalize yourself and 518 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,400 just bring new energy to something you've been doing 519 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,440 forever and maybe got it gotten frustrated with. 520 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,120 So I I've talked to some people who are in in that camp as well, 521 00:27:57,120 --> 00:27:58,800 like, hey, this is just like this is weird. 522 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,400 Like I learned a new thing and it it was hard, but it was, it 523 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,880 was kind of fun and. It's super fun. 524 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:06,520 I mean that's when most of us play, right? 525 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,360 I mean like release the avid golfers is like the journey, you 526 00:28:10,360 --> 00:28:13,640 know, and, and discovery and breaking through and seeing 527 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,360 what's possible and those rare moments when that actually 528 00:28:16,360 --> 00:28:19,000 happens to people who play all the time and basically shoot the 529 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,320 same score every time they play. It's it's exciting to introduce 530 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,280 opportunities for legitimate improvement. 531 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,760 And then in many cases, my goodness, have I seen it. 532 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,480 I mean people that just just can't putt and then all the 533 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,920 sudden they get along in their hand and they don't just become 534 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:36,480 acceptable, they become exceptional. 535 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,000 You know, like I've seen it with my own eyes many, many times. 536 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,280 OK, All right, let's dive into the tech a little bit. 537 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:47,160 You teased it earlier, but why do lab putters set up well for a 538 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,160 sweeper option? So they're, you know, we talked 539 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,360 about how much, how much they weigh, right, a sweeper head. 540 00:28:54,360 --> 00:29:00,400 So there's a direct relationship in correlation between weight 541 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,320 and torque if the heavier the putter, the higher the torque 542 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,360 profile and so the torque output. 543 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:10,360 So I, I, I think that with conventionally balanced long 544 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:16,840 putters, it took a bit more manipulation and strengthen that 545 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,080 right hand to keep that thing from moving around because even 546 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,680 more so than a conventional putter really wanted to move. 547 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,440 Now with lying a balance, you know, it's, it's, it's the same 548 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,760 advantage you're getting with a conventional version that you 549 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,840 are with a with a sweeper, except that it's just a bit more 550 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,560 amplified because the torque output of a conventional sweeper 551 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,760 versus a lab sweeper is is, you know, it's just, it's really 552 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,680 significant. So yeah, you know, you just 553 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,840 don't see, certainly you almost never see a toe hang sweeper. 554 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,920 There's quite a few face balance ones. 555 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,240 I couldn't really tell you why that is either. 556 00:29:54,320 --> 00:30:02,120 Like, I don't know why, yeah, I would almost think that a toe 557 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,600 hang, if you're going to choose a non lab sweeper would almost 558 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,920 be better as you know, because it's trying to shut, you know, 559 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:09,640 on the way back and then it's trying to open on the way 560 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,600 through. I don't know why you'd want 561 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,240 something that was opening in relation to the Yeah, I don't 562 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,200 know. Anyway, So, yeah, I mean, it 563 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,480 just, it makes it with a lab, it just kind of makes it so that 564 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,320 you can just swing the shaft, you know, is is, which is, you 565 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:24,920 know, again, the same thing with our conventional putters. 566 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:26,800 That's what we're trying to do is just playing the shaft. 567 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,920 But with the Super upright lie angle, you can get them off the 568 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,840 ground easier. And that's where most people 569 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,280 lose control of a sweeper at first when they first try it. 570 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:37,680 The second it comes off the ground, the weight is so 571 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,880 significant, it falls to the inside and then they reroute it 572 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,000 to try and save it. And it's, you know, it's just a 573 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,080 mess. Doesn't really happen with labs. 574 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,160 Like they just, they just come off the ground the way that 575 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,200 they're supposed to and they keep moving the way they're 576 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,280 supposed to in transition. And you can grip them pretty 577 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:55,440 light. And yeah. 578 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,840 What like what model makes the best sweeper? 579 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:04,640 I mean Mezmax are it seems like 90% of what I've seen, but like 580 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:06,840 why is there and using that one? Why aren't people using, you 581 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,600 know, DF threes more? Like what? 582 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,320 What's going on with that? I, I mean, I, I would think that 583 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,720 that's I, I don't have a specific answer. 584 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:15,880 I would think that's entirely just about the tour exposure. 585 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,040 You know, Lucas and, and, and Adam are still using it. 586 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,920 And, you know, Adam helped us design the Oz and, and loved it 587 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,440 so much, but ultimately didn't work very well for him. 588 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,960 And he spent most, most of the last year wrestling with it and 589 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,040 made a bunch of different versions and different lines and 590 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,520 different stuff to try and try and get it to work for him. 591 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,880 Because certainly we didn't care. 592 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,040 We were just wanting to put well with whatever he, you know, 593 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,880 wants to put with, but he wanted to use it because, you know, 594 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:42,960 he'd helped us. He'd help us carve that one. 595 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,760 I don't know, I think, I mean, I think those, when people ask me 596 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,440 for recommendations, those are the two that I recommend, the Oz 597 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,120 and the Mez. And for me, the reason is just 598 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,800 the lack of onset. And I think that, you know, like 599 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,560 we mitigate onset in our conventional putters by leaning 600 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,640 the shaft forward, then using a press grip, which leans back 601 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,720 with the sweeper. We you can't press grip it. 602 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:13,160 You know, you're, you know, you're, you're needing to, you 603 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,960 know, it's a vertical shaft with, you know, either the long 604 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:17,800 21 inch grip or you're a split grip. 605 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,640 So now the the face is just way in front of the shaft when you 606 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:23,920 start getting into your DF threes and DF2 point ones. 607 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,760 That said, I think it has to do with kind of what you started 608 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,800 with. And like one of our better 609 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,160 players in the company is a fellow named Ryan Dyro. 610 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:38,920 And Ryan Ryan and I met, yeah, the Mez didn't exist yet. 611 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,120 So there was the Bomber and there was. 612 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:47,520 And I think he actually ended up putting with a 2.1 with an inch 613 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,640 of lead tape on the bottom. So that was his first long 614 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,120 putter. And now he only puts with onset. 615 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,200 The Oz and the Mez are very uncomfortable for him, makes a 616 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,880 funny strike. It doesn't just doesn't, it 617 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,240 doesn't sit right with him. And so, and we got plenty of 618 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,000 customers that, that only use the, the 2.1 of the three. 619 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,720 So as far as which is the best 1, I don't think that the answer 620 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,560 to that question is any different than any one of our 621 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,040 putters. So you just, you got to come in 622 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,600 and see which one you line up better, see which one bottoms 623 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,480 out better for you, you know, between the aim, well, which 624 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,400 one, you know, ultimately produces the best results. 625 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,480 But like if you already use a sweeper, if you're coming from, 626 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,920 I've never seen anybody that used another company's sweeper 627 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,880 and come to us and end up in a in a DF 3 or 2.1 just because I 628 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,600 think the the the bottom of the arc is just too different. 629 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,360 But you know the odds and the Mes are, relatively speaking, 630 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,520 minimally onset. Got it. 631 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,000 Would you say the majority of sweepers you sell today are are 632 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,040 Mesmax? Is that the the gist? 633 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,840 Of it, I'd be curious to I mean certain, certainly lifetime. 634 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:53,800 I would have to assume it's like 85%. 635 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,640 Yeah, maybe not, you know, maybe 75 something like that. 636 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,320 I know we sold a lot of Oz sweepers when they came out that 637 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,200 the mess is a fairly polarizing shape. 638 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:10,880 You know, it's really sharp and it sits on the ground in a in a 639 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,000 way that for some is just not comfortable. 640 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,639 But people like the concept of sweeping. 641 00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:17,400 Tried some of the onset stuff didn't work. 642 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,320 And so I you know, I know that when the Oz came out we did we 643 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,400 did really well with it. I haven't checked specifically 644 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,719 on the split recently. I I think the. 645 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,800 I personally think the Oz is the best sweeper we make. 646 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,400 Really, for sure. The mez just makes sense as a 647 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,560 sweeper in my brain for some reason. 648 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,320 It's like the way that it sets up, the way that it aligns. 649 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,280 It's like this thing is square and I'm going to make this thing 650 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,120 go square and square and like I'm just trying to rotate my 651 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,760 trunk and you know, just like I don't. 652 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:48,520 Know. What's that? 653 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:52,000 You tried an Oz. Not the sweeper. 654 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,440 No, not the house sweeper. I'm not going to try it bro. 655 00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:57,800 I need, I need to put that to the test, but I there's 656 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,320 something about the mez Max which is like, I don't know, it 657 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,920 just makes sense as a sweeper anyways. 658 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,000 You're certainly not alone in that feeling. 659 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,040 Yeah. OK. 660 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:12,800 So everything kind of took off. 2023 started selling crazy 661 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,880 amounts of these, not to just people that have the yips, just 662 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:18,400 like to normal people right as well. 663 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,320 Yeah, right. Like which was super exciting 664 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,680 because because it's a great, it's a great method. 665 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,840 And I'm, I'm, I'm excited as we continue to see people who are 666 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,640 competent putters, meaning great green readers and have good 667 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,000 judgement of speed just trying it just because not to solve a 668 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,560 problem, but just to try it. And that's what that's where I 669 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,680 think it's gotten really exciting in these last two or 670 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:41,120 three years. Liam Bedford, who I mentioned 671 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:42,640 before, is one of the best putters in the company. 672 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:44,320 He was sweeper for the last nine months. 673 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:45,440 He actually just recently changed. 674 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,760 We started prototyping some other stuff again, but just for 675 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:49,800 fun. He just wanted to do it. 676 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:51,520 He just wanted to try it, wanted to go down the rabbit hole. 677 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,760 I think we got a lot of people out there kind of on that same, 678 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,040 same, same trip. You've probably seen tons of 679 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,840 people try one of these out, you know, as they grab it for the 680 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,800 first time. What are the mistakes that you 681 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,480 see most people make when they try one out? 682 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,320 Because I know, like if you, if I just tried one out on a 683 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,320 potting green, I would have said no, this is stupid. 684 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:16,320 Like I can't do this right. It took me like 6 weeks to like 685 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,360 actually like I'm committed to this. 686 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:20,400 Maybe it's too long, but like what? 687 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,240 What do you think are the mistakes that people make when 688 00:36:23,240 --> 00:36:25,840 you've watched them grab one and start hitting putts and then 689 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,680 carry on? With the a few things. 690 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,040 So the first is that that initial, those first couple of 691 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,680 putts like you need to be patient and people are generally 692 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:41,600 so overwhelmed by the weight that they're just not used to 693 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:45,440 the the grip pressure required. They don't know quite what 694 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,120 muscles they're using yet. You know, to get the thing 695 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,440 moving, the putter falls to the inside as soon as it gets off 696 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,160 the ground. A little bit lesser with ours 697 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:57,120 than with conventional ones. But and then they loop it and 698 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,600 catch it off the neck and say no thank you. 699 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,560 So you got to give it more than a minute and I'd say you really 700 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:10,760 have to give it more than 5. So that's thing one thing 2 I 701 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,840 see people try to make it feel like a putting stroke. 702 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:18,160 I see people try to make the putter go back and forth kind of 703 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,600 in the same timing as with their, their short putter, 704 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,640 rather than sort of accepting the weight and the, and the, the 705 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:30,440 sort of letting gravity do its thing, you know, with, with with 706 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:34,200 long putters is, is essential. And so the stroke does get 707 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:41,280 longer and you know, it's, it's way less acceleration required. 708 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,440 And and the people who really struggle with sweepers at first 709 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,040 are people who are over accelerators with their 710 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,200 conventional putters, people who have nice long backstrokes in 711 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,960 their conventional putters and kind of, you know, stop a little 712 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,360 bit after the ball. Those people tend to pick up on 713 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,040 sweeping pretty quick, But you're over accelerators really 714 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,160 struggle because the putters too heavy to accelerate. 715 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:05,920 So anybody that tries to, to, you know, have a lot of hits to 716 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:10,080 their stroke and acceleration to their stroke, I tell them you 717 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,560 just got to slow down and take the thing far enough back that 718 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,400 all you need to do is let it just sort of drop on the ball to 719 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:17,960 get it there. And I think that that's a hard 720 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:22,080 concept for people at first, particularly as the path is 721 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,320 really wonky. You know, they want to grab it 722 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,240 and control it and, you know, and do the thing. 723 00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:29,800 So which, you know, by the way, the, the, the, the fix is to 724 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,160 solve for that first impression that most people get. 725 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,800 Just take the thing back and feel like you're taking it a 726 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,680 little outside and shut, when in fact you'll actually just be on 727 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,920 plane and square. But a lot of people's, you know, 728 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:46,120 are just used to seeing the putter go like this and their 729 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,400 brain wants to see that with the sweeper and it's not going to 730 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,840 happen. So, yeah, so I would say don't, 731 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:52,640 don't make it feel like a putting stroke. 732 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:56,320 Let it be its own thing and then take the thing, you know, a 733 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:57,840 little outside and shut on the way back. 734 00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,560 And I think you'll, you'll be in a in a better spot. 735 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,520 And, and, and further, you have to, you have to choose how 736 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,040 you're going to move it. And I've heard very different 737 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,400 things. And in this, the differences in 738 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:13,560 the way people move it are more impactful than with conventional 739 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,240 putters because it's so long and because it's so heavy. 740 00:39:17,240 --> 00:39:19,760 So, you know, people who say that with their conventional 741 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:21,720 putters, like, you know, I'm a little right-handed, you know, I 742 00:39:21,720 --> 00:39:23,680 kind of really feel like I'm hitting it with my right hand or 743 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,480 I pull it through with my left hand or, you know, whatever it 744 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,440 is. You can't really see the 745 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,600 difference in them sort of changing which motor is moving 746 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,800 the putter with a sweeper, you sure can't. 747 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:36,280 And people are very, very different. 748 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:41,480 Like Adam. Adam does a drill where he can, 749 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:45,920 he can putt like this even with his, you know, 850g total 750 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,640 putter. He'll, he'll put his his right 751 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,360 arm behind his back and he'll just putt like this, just 752 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,480 holding the, you know, the the putter with his left hand and 753 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,040 keeping it fixed enough that he can move his core and get it 754 00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:58,680 going. Charles Schwarzel's the exact 755 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:00,160 opposite. He feels like his shoulders 756 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:01,400 don't even move. They do. 757 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,800 They move quite significantly, but he doesn't feel like he's 758 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:05,840 moving them. They just come along for the 759 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:07,280 ride. He just feels like the entire 760 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,400 stroke is his right arm. So you kind of got to decide how 761 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,200 you're going to move the thing and you know, you got to 762 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,480 experiment with all of it. Gosh, I love that Adam Scott 763 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,840 trail because because I this summer really have noticed that 764 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,680 if I got to feel like I'm rotating my trunk, like and if I 765 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:25,400 don't engage my core and like feel my whole body like doing 766 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,960 this, then I get a bit squirrely with it. 767 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,360 So that drill sounds perfect for like kind of working on that. 768 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,640 It's good. And I, and I'm the exact 769 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,520 opposite. I, I need to feel like my 770 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,440 sternum doesn't move at all. And then I keep a really low 771 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:42,680 access point and my, you know, right elbow and right arm are 772 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,040 doing most of the work. And you know, for me, my keys 773 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:51,240 are this figuring out, you know, with the face, square face, 774 00:40:51,240 --> 00:40:55,800 where my arm and elbow need to be in order to pull the thing 775 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,680 back. You know I'm playing. 776 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,040 Got it. All right, prediction time. 777 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:07,160 Five years from now, will there be more sweepers on tour than 778 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,920 there are right now? What do you think now? 779 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,680 Absolutely. OK yes, by like you, quite a 780 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:15,160 few. Let's say I just like I just 781 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:16,800 clawed. Clauded asked. 782 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:18,040 Claude, how many are on there right now? 783 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,720 We got Lucas Glover, Akshay Wills, El Torres, been on Adam 784 00:41:21,720 --> 00:41:24,760 Scott. Conventional one. 785 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:26,560 Yeah, you switched Adam off of a. 786 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,280 Well, he's and got back on it today. 787 00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:33,200 Oh, he did, yeah. OK for a short, short lived 788 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,240 experiment. OK, Adam's interesting. 789 00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:38,880 So what Adam does. So Adam plays probably 95% of 790 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,120 his golf with convent or his casual golf with a conventional 791 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,160 putter. And you know, you know, as a, as 792 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:49,920 a sweeper guy, like when you lay down a sweeper after a little 793 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:51,760 break, they just feel like cheating. 794 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,400 Like when you lock in with a sweeper, it feels unfair. 795 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,240 Like it just feels like you just, you have an advantage over 796 00:41:57,240 --> 00:41:59,920 everybody else. So he likes to sort of keep it 797 00:41:59,920 --> 00:42:01,720 fresh. There's also like once you kind 798 00:42:01,720 --> 00:42:05,200 of get sweeping down, there's a lot less like calibration and 799 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,400 management of technique. Like it's easier to do. 800 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,720 It's like it's just much easier to do repeatedly. 801 00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:13,440 Your setup is the same every time, your distance from the 802 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,640 ball is the same every time. And all this shit is the same 803 00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:19,520 over and over and over again. And so he likes that fresh 804 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:21,400 feeling. So he plays his casual golf with 805 00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,280 the with the conventional putter and then goes back to the 806 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,240 sweeper. He was putting so well casually 807 00:42:25,240 --> 00:42:28,680 with this HS that he wanted to give it a shot at the tournament 808 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,040 and didn't, didn't take after you had 30 plus yesterday, which 809 00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:33,600 he wasn't, wasn't terribly pleased with. 810 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,720 But yeah, you got. And then Ben on also just 811 00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:38,440 switched to a conventional putter, I believe. 812 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,560 But he'll be back. Yeah. 813 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,400 And you got Akshay Will James Hahn. 814 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:51,520 See what Kim using. He he's, he's on and off 815 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,040 statistically, it's crazy to me that he's ever off because it's 816 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,200 not even close how much better he puts with the with the 817 00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:57,760 sweeper. So. 818 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:04,040 You would guess more in five years, more like at least 819 00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,080 double. We'll probably be using sweeper. 820 00:43:06,240 --> 00:43:07,840 Is that will that be your prediction? 821 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:09,720 Yes. OK. 822 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:11,920 OK. You feel pretty good about that, 823 00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,400 pretty confident. Yeah, because like, you know, 824 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:18,360 the younger generation is a lot more open minded to technology 825 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,640 in general. And so, you know, the younger 826 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,760 generation it's it's half what's going to make me putt better 827 00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,160 than the other half. What's not going to be 828 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,360 embarrassing. You know, long putters are 829 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:30,440 sorry, but they're just not embarrassing anymore. 830 00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:31,760 Will tell. Torres is cool. 831 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,120 Adam is cool. Akshay's might be the coolest 832 00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,760 guy on tour right now. You know, like, they're, they're 833 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,520 cool and they're and there's a graceful way to use them. 834 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:45,560 And so, you know, if you're, you know, a freshman, sophomore, 835 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,520 junior on tour and all of a sudden you start looking at your 836 00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,960 shot length stats and seeing that you're 130th and putting 837 00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,080 and you've now seen any number of people. 838 00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,200 I mean, actually is another great example, like Bummer is 839 00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,000 not using a lab, but like that dude was a liability on the 840 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,040 greens. He is now one of the finest 841 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,440 putters on the planet simply for making that change. 842 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,720 And he was instantly. So, yeah, I think there's going 843 00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:09,680 to be when you start searching for an answer and and seeing 844 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,760 prolonged unsatisfactory putting, I think you're going to 845 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:18,040 see people try that maybe in advance of going to find a new 846 00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:21,000 coach or, you know, whatever else. 847 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,480 And then from a consumer perspective, do you feel like 848 00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:27,440 that will continue to to grow as well and as with kind of the 849 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,280 pro? I would think, yeah, I mean, I 850 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,760 see it out here, you know, in Emerald Valley for your 851 00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:34,920 listeners, you know, our factory sits right on a golf course and 852 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:36,920 we got a lot of really good players right here. 853 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:41,920 The Ducks play here and very well respected tournament course 854 00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,520 and I see it a lot more now. I would say, I'd say it's at 855 00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,920 least three X what it was three years ago out here. 856 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,880 Yeah, I I've seen the same thing. 857 00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:52,640 There are more guys at at my club. 858 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,600 I don't think there's a single person that had a sweeper five 859 00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:59,680 years ago and now there are at least 5 plus that that do. 860 00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:05,400 So it's, it's interesting, dude. Thank you so much. 861 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,160 I, the last thing that I need is your 5 minute. 862 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,480 I know arm locks is the other alternative that we're talking 863 00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:15,080 about and we, I just, you know, sweepers have been your guys''s 864 00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:16,360 thing here over the last few years. 865 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,680 But like, what's you sell them? What's your, what's your 3 866 00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,080 minute take on arm locks? Do you feel the same way or do 867 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:22,760 you feel? Different. 868 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:26,040 No, I don't like them. I don't like no, I don't because 869 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,960 there's no way to to lock the forearm against your or lock the 870 00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,040 shaft against your forearm without creating tension right 871 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,600 here. And I think that anything that 872 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:40,000 creates tension below the elbow you're doing so you know what 873 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:43,720 the to what the detriment of your touch and nuanced putting 874 00:45:43,720 --> 00:45:46,560 all that. Of course there are exceptions, 875 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,480 of course, there, you know, like, and, and particularly for 876 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,360 people that control their speed the way Bryson does. 877 00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,200 So Bryson, Bryson's not using touch, but Bryson's using an 878 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,760 equation, you know, so he, he knows exactly how far he needs 879 00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,600 to pull the putter back to get it to go X distance. 880 00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,960 And so there's not a lot of like, he's not feeling that out. 881 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,960 He's, he's measuring it out. I think for people whose brains 882 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,120 work that way, maybe it's, you know, it's a little bit 883 00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,880 different. I you know, Matt Coosier is the 884 00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:15,960 only person that I've seen putt exceptionally well with that 885 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,320 method. And when I say putts 886 00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,520 exceptionally well, I mean that's strictly statistically 887 00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:22,800 speaking. It's one of the ugliest party 888 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,360 strokes I've ever seen. Like I've no idea how that dude 889 00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,080 holds as many putts as he does. It's incredible. 890 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:32,320 Like, I mean, it's 100 wiggles all over the place and the ball 891 00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:34,440 never comes off with any like integrity. 892 00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,360 And and it's just, it's so weird. 893 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:42,680 But he has made millions of dollars locking it on each arm. 894 00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,160 You know, now he's on the he's got he's locking on the trail 895 00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:49,240 arm. Now what I where I do like 896 00:46:49,480 --> 00:47:02,560 armlock is for training. I really like I I one thing I 897 00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:05,320 was actually just talking to my buddy Carter last night. 898 00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:07,200 You remember Carter who who filmed us. 899 00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:09,960 So Carter's a great player and really good putter, and one of 900 00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:13,440 the things that he struggles with either putts exceptionally 901 00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:17,640 well or his head starts moving back through impact. 902 00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,800 And what happens is he takes the putter back. 903 00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:27,400 And if you take it back with your body and then your left 904 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,800 side stops, something's got to get the putter through. 905 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,800 So you either lean back to get it through or the face just 906 00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:35,880 opens up and you hit a lot of pushes, which is what he does. 907 00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,840 What I like about Armlock is, is that it'll it'll it'll teach you 908 00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,880 as a drill to keep that left side moving, whether it's the 909 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:46,520 shoulder or the elbow, you know, that that gets the handle 910 00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,800 through so that you don't ultimately either fall back on 911 00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:51,960 it or fan it open. So I love it as training. 912 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:55,680 I use them, you know, to help players with a feel very often. 913 00:47:55,680 --> 00:48:00,160 But yeah, and I'm not going to lie to like, it's just, I, I 914 00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,320 haven't spent a ton of time messing around with the method 915 00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:06,800 and when I have personally, I hate it. 916 00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:08,720 Like I just hate the way that it feels. 917 00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:13,880 I it feels clunky and weird and I've just never found any kind 918 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:15,960 of worthwhile rhythm and, and then part. 919 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:17,680 And for me, I know that that's about the tension. 920 00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:21,240 Like I putt with incredibly soft hands, credibly soft wrists, 921 00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:23,520 soft forms like my wrists move a little bit when I putt and I 922 00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:25,440 need them to. Otherwise I just start to get 923 00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:26,880 real wooden. This is why we're doing the 924 00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:28,320 series. We need all the perspectives 925 00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:29,120 here. So there we go. 926 00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:31,360 There we got the. And I'm sure there's a great, 927 00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:33,680 there's a great argument for it, obviously, otherwise, you know, 928 00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,160 nobody would do it. But then look at the tour man, 929 00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:40,280 like there was a lot of guys in Arm Lock and four years ago and 930 00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:43,960 who's left Vice and then that it's true. 931 00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,200 Anybody else? I can't think of anybody. 932 00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,440 No, not right now, No all. Right. 933 00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:49,760 There's anybody. Yeah. 934 00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:53,120 So the prediction is is sweet. I know that that's the future. 935 00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:55,200 I know that. What's his name? 936 00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:59,040 Keegan does the the wrist lock. The wrist lock, you know where 937 00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:00,520 it's. So it's, you know, kind of an 938 00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:01,560 arm. Have you guys done that? 939 00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,520 Have you done one of those? We've made a few, it gets tough. 940 00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,080 They're hard, they're hard to balance because the, you know, 941 00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:10,320 the, the grip having so much more weight on one side because 942 00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,000 of the knob that sticks out makes it a, a tricky equation. 943 00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,280 But we've built them for tour players and here and there. 944 00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,280 Got it, got it. Well, cool man. 945 00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:19,720 Thanks for your time. This was this was super fun. 946 00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:26,560 So people should go they should go build a custom lab Mez Max or 947 00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:28,400 Oz. That's that's your professional 948 00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,120 opinion, correct? And check in. 949 00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:33,840 We have a remote fitting for them too, which is important. 950 00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:38,360 It's not super technical. Very rarely does anybody use a 951 00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:44,000 sweeper at less than the maximum allowable lie angle, which is 952 00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,480 80°. We do 79.5 just to to leave a 953 00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,960 half a degree of room for a angry rules official. 954 00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:54,240 The yeah, biggest thing is kind of ball parking length and we 955 00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:56,080 just tell, just screw around with your driver for a second or 956 00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:58,880 your 3 wood and just kind of figure out how you want to move 957 00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:00,760 it, how you want to stand, how much you want to bend over that 958 00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:02,880 stuff. And then, yeah, order away. 959 00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,640 It seemed obvious once you guys said that in the remote fitting, 960 00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:08,200 like just use your driver but like the never had occurred. 961 00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:13,120 So yeah people just grab your driver and figure it out and 962 00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:14,320 you'll figure out the length from there. 963 00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,960 So sweet man appreciate it. Great time, Courtney. 964 00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:17,200 Thanks.