1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:05,080 So right now I have a putter in my hands which almost looks like 2 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:08,320 a chipper. It has seven degrees of loft. 3 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:10,600 If you're on the video, you can see this. 4 00:00:11,120 --> 00:00:16,000 And there's a good reason why. This is the Betanari Armlock, 5 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:20,240 the Matt Kucher Signature Edition, and today I'm going to 6 00:00:20,240 --> 00:00:22,920 chat with Sam Bettenardi about this putter. 7 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:27,640 This was one of the first attempts at making a mass market 8 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:29,680 armlock putter. So he's going to tell the whole 9 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:34,240 story of how it came to be kind of what some of the challenges 10 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:38,080 were as they created it and the the prototyping and then selling 11 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:39,760 of it. And then we're going to talk 12 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,520 about like what they've learned over the years of Bettenardi 13 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:44,440 about armlock putters. They've been doing it for a long 14 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:48,320 time. 2013 was this launch and yeah, they're still making them 15 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:50,440 today. So an important story to tell in 16 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,360 our series on alternative putting styles because the 17 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:57,160 armlock is is a big part of that, but it hasn't really taken 18 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:58,920 off. So we talked about why as well. 19 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,880 Maybe why haven't we seen it grow more since 2013, but man, 20 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,680 this is a really interesting putter this it's got a bunch of 21 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,200 offset, bunch of loft, but it sets up really, really nicely 22 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,520 when you go to to arm lock it. So it's a fun, fun club to play 23 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:15,680 around with. Going to talk about this more 24 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:17,680 here soon, but let's get into this with Sam. 25 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,320 OK, let's go back. What was the first idea of an 26 00:01:26,320 --> 00:01:28,120 armlock putter like? Where'd it come from? 27 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:33,600 Yeah, the first idea really came about in 2010. 28 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:37,360 Matt Kutcher won the money title on the PGA Tour, was playing 29 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:42,400 great, cashing a lot of checks. And in the that year, I believe 30 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,160 the PGA Championship, maybe it was at, at whistling straights 31 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,920 and my father Bob had driven up to whistling straights, bumped 32 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,320 into Matt Kucher. We had a relationship with Matt 33 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:56,080 going back to 2002. The Honda Classic was his first 34 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,720 PGA Tour title and he won it with a Bettenardi putter. 35 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,640 So as we do on the PG Tour, always trying to get players to 36 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,120 switch into our products. So my dad ran into Matt. 37 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:07,680 Matt, good to see you. Would love to make you a putter 38 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:09,240 again. How do we get you in the in 39 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:10,639 play? He said. 40 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,120 Bob, funny ask. I'm actually trying to develop 41 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:17,480 this new putting style where I hold the putter on my forearm. 42 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,080 I don't know how to use it. I don't know what it needs to 43 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,480 look like, how to hold it. But he goes, do you remember 44 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:28,040 when Bernhard Langer won the 93 Masters where he was essentially 45 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,000 wrist locking it, right? He had that putter grip on his 46 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,200 wrist and he goes, I want to do that, but I want it on my 47 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,880 forearm. So again, something totally 48 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:38,600 brand new. And the way that I was told the 49 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:42,320 story, it was Kutcher had approached Scotty Cameron, Garen 50 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:45,240 Rife and then my father to make him this style of putter. 51 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:50,920 So we had made him probably 25 to 30 different prototypes with 52 00:02:50,920 --> 00:02:55,480 different head shapes, different Weld necks, different offsets, 53 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,600 different lofts. And finally settle on what he 54 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:04,080 used for most of his career from 2013 to the last few years of a, 55 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:07,000 what we call basically the Kutcher Model 1 or our Studio 56 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,800 Stock 28. It's a wide body blade. 57 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:13,960 And his putter at that time at 7° of loft that was milled into 58 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,520 the face. And the reason it had so much 59 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,240 loft is when you, when you put that putter grip on your 60 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:24,640 forearm, right, and you have that, that shaft and grip so far 61 00:03:24,640 --> 00:03:27,360 forward on your left, your forearm, your D lofting the 62 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,200 putter. So you need loft added back in 63 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,160 to offset all that D loft and you're doing keeping it forward. 64 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,720 So lot of R&D, lot of time went into making that happen. 65 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:41,240 And then that first first year he put in play in 2013, he won 66 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:45,840 the the WGC at Dove Mountain, he won the memorial in May at 67 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,040 Jack's Place and the rest. Is history interesting? 68 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:53,160 OK, let's get into the weeds on it a bit then what? 69 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,640 Like what is, is there anything difficult about making an 70 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:58,520 armlock putter? Or like, what were the things 71 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,920 that you had to figure out about, like how to make a good 72 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,080 putter for the style? Totally. 73 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:08,720 Once we settle on Matt's exact had an exact configuration, 74 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,240 that's the first step was hey, we got to get this to the masses 75 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:14,640 because we think arm locks going to be great, right. 76 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,360 So the challenge of machining that was a lot of companies at 77 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:20,240 the time. Surely thereafter we released 78 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,920 the arm lock didn't mill the loft into the face because 79 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,960 that's custom tooling, custom fixturing and it's more complex 80 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:29,960 versus just milling. I'm looking for a putter on my 81 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:35,480 desk versus just milling right the flat of a loft off of 3° 82 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:39,200 where you need to mill it at 7°. The second challenging part, 83 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,400 which is what we all kind of secretly feared is that his 84 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:46,840 shaft at 2 1/2 shafts of offset. So the post that goes on that 85 00:04:46,840 --> 00:04:49,920 putter right here was angled. Let me see if I got one behind 86 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,200 me. I do not this post right here 87 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,920 Corey, I got a putters all over my office, but this post right 88 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:03,520 here is an 18° angle and with the Koocher arm lock it was 12° 89 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,360 and this is Koocher unlock was 22°. 90 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:10,320 So with that shaft you need a thicker shaft and a heavier 91 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,920 shaft to allow for the heavier head weight and then that big 92 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:15,560 bend. So we had a source through our 93 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,440 shaft companies, we use what we call a ski pole shaft that was a 94 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:23,440 lot thicker and then a custom bend to allow it to go into that 95 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:28,880 22° push of a neck, right. So what are always fear was I 96 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,560 remember in 2013, I went to watch Matt at the Masters and 97 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,240 our head of engineering was like just pray that putter doesn't 98 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,280 snap. I go, what do you mean? 99 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,920 He goes well, that neck is at such an angle and Matt always 100 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,520 rests. You know, his body leans on the 101 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:45,280 putter. We hope that it doesn't snap. 102 00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:48,520 It shouldn't because it's mill from three O 3 stainless and the 103 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,280 stainless is very durable. But we've never done this 104 00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:53,120 before. So let's just pray it does. 105 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,080 And I'm like, oh God, that's the last thing you want to hear when 106 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:57,960 you're down there and you're you're hanging out with Cooch 107 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:01,080 and his family that his putter could break during the Masters. 108 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:06,920 That's that's pretty good. OK so so for a novice I I'd feel 109 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,480 dumb for asking this, but what is milling loft into the face 110 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,520 mean and is that different than bending it? 111 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:14,840 I'd sorry if that's a dumb question, but. 112 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:17,360 Something that's a great question. 113 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:21,680 So when you well, when you think about why loft is on a putter, 114 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:25,840 right, the the theory is that a golf ball that's resting on a 115 00:06:25,840 --> 00:06:28,760 green, right? It's kind of it leaving an 116 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,280 impression in the green to need loft, right? 117 00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:35,520 If my hand is straight 90° need a little bit of loft to be able 118 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:39,200 to lift that golf ball out of the impression and start rolling 119 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:43,080 end over end immediately, right? So I say milling loft into the 120 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:47,520 face, the face, if it's it's not completely flats, if you look at 121 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,480 it like this. So that fixture that set up to 122 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,360 mill the loft is angled at a way which is 3°. 123 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:58,960 So when I'm talking about 7°, right, it's just it's here, but 124 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,760 it's angled more to be able to allow that 7° aloft milled into 125 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,240 the face. So when we first launched that 126 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:10,160 Kutcher models as the KM one and the KM2 in the spring of 2013, I 127 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,440 remember it very vividly. It was May of that year. 128 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,640 Both models had that much loft milled in the face. 129 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:19,200 And that was my job when I started here 12 years ago was to 130 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,160 sell and market the brand. And I remember talking to a lot 131 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,800 of people like podcasts over the phone and media. 132 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,080 They'd say, wow, that is really hard to look down at. 133 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,320 It almost looks like a wedge, right? 134 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,840 And I said, you have to put it on your left forearm. 135 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,640 This is how it works. So I think again over the years, 136 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,840 Kutcher had even gone down from 7:00 to 5:00 to even 3° of loft 137 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,560 on his on his putter. So we learned over the years, 138 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,560 you don't necessarily need 7 armlock offerings are milled 139 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,440 into the head. Courtney right now at 5°, we 140 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:55,000 feel like that's a a great number for a wide variety of 141 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,920 players. Start as a great starting point 142 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,400 versus 7 which is a little off putting at times looking down at 143 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:05,520 that much loft. Well, I, I went on eBay and, and 144 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:06,840 bought one. I thought I was going to be here 145 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:08,400 today, but it didn't make it in time. 146 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:13,640 So I'm, I'm interested to see what 7° of 7° of loft looks 147 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,000 like. Totally those, those original 148 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,840 ones. So that's, that's interesting. 149 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,400 You guys changed it was is the reason that in that first model 150 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,640 he was just leaning so far forward or that's so much? 151 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:27,240 Forward. He was so far forward. 152 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:29,800 Yeah. And I'll give you an example. 153 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:32,520 I just got a new putter made for me today. 154 00:08:32,919 --> 00:08:38,120 And it's our antidote, SB-2. And we had made a couple front 155 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,480 pieces with five degrees of loft, right. 156 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:46,080 And when Kutcher first started putting, he was, he was out 157 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,680 here. If you ever look at those early 158 00:08:48,680 --> 00:08:51,600 videos, he was way forward. And since then, he's become a 159 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:56,280 lot more closer to his body, which means you don't have to 160 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,000 have all that loft on the putter. 161 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:01,720 Got it, Got it. Again, if you look at a guy like 162 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:06,360 Bryson who's whose arm lock is 79° of lying go right, he's 163 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:10,000 very, very upright, but he's got that putter tucked inside his 164 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:14,040 body where again, when Kutcher started, he was way, way out, 165 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,680 which required again, that's 7°. Did I? 166 00:09:17,680 --> 00:09:19,640 That's interesting. Thinking back, he wasn't so 167 00:09:19,680 --> 00:09:22,440 upright right when he was doing arm lock with the lying. 168 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,440 Oh, really? I want to say it was like 68 1/2 169 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,240 to 69. Wow, would would you? 170 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,760 What's your stock lie on something? 171 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:36,640 Is it more upright? 70s, our standard line goal that 172 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:38,920 we offer to golfers. We feel like that's a great 173 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:40,800 number. I think a lot of people that 174 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,080 come into Studio B Oakbrook, they get fit and I'd say more 175 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:48,280 often than not we're bending people flat to 6968 1/2 ish 176 00:09:48,680 --> 00:09:51,240 versus going more upright. I think it's just a natural 177 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:55,120 position for golfers to be's a little flatter, but 70s are 178 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:56,960 stock lying old. Got it. 179 00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:58,840 OK, let's go. I want to go a little bit 180 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:00,840 deeper. I'm not sure I totally followed 181 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,960 on why the the thicker the the ski pole shaft. 182 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,520 So is that that's because the the offset is more or could you 183 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:09,480 dive into that again? I don't know if you could show 184 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:10,920 us that. Again, I want to make sure I 185 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:14,120 understand that. Yeah, a ski, we call it a ski 186 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,880 pole shaft just because it's a lot thicker than a standard 187 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,000 shaft, right? And if I were to grab again, 188 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:24,400 another butter right here to see the difference, you could see 189 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:28,800 how thick this one is in my left hand versus this thin one right 190 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,320 here. It's probably about 30 to 40% 191 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,080 bigger. So the reason you needed a ski 192 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,760 pole shaft is because of the heavier head weight at 400 grams 193 00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:43,720 versus 3 versus a 358g head, which is typically our standard 194 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,560 weight. So that extra thickness and in 195 00:10:46,680 --> 00:10:50,320 bulkier shaft accommodated the heavier head and that's what 196 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,240 Matt Kutcher preferred. So we figured at the time, hey, 197 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,520 if this is what Matt likes, you know, people out in the public 198 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,080 want a game and use what the professionals are using. 199 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:00,680 So here we go. Here's a shaft. 200 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,240 Got it. Have you in your arm lock 201 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,000 putters? Have you kept the heavier weight 202 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,160 in in the head? Is that maintained over time? 203 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:11,480 We have, Yeah, because arm locks, when we first launched 204 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:15,520 them, even this day, you're offering lengths from 38 to 45 205 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,360 inches, right. So with that extra length of the 206 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,640 shaft and the extra weight of the grip, you need that extra 207 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,880 weight in the head to essentially counterbalance all 208 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,720 that, all that additional weight you're doing on the bottom end 209 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:29,280 or on the top end. Excuse me? 210 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,960 So that extra headway helps. You could still try an arm lock 211 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,360 at a standard weight. It's just going to feel very 212 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:39,440 light when you have that extra grip, extra shaft and length all 213 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:40,880 adding up. That adds up a lot. 214 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:42,480 Got it. OK. 215 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,600 So, so take us back then you were, you said your first job 216 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,720 there was marketing this putter then right, that is where you 217 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,080 kind of got started. Yeah, I started. 218 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,640 I always knew I was going to work for the family business. 219 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,080 I'm I played golf at college, at Marquette. 220 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,120 I played a lot of Junior Golf growing up, so golf's in my 221 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,200 blood, it's in my veins. And I graduated from DePaul 222 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,760 University and my plan was always to work somewhere else 223 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,600 for two to four years, take that experience, come back to bed 224 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:11,520 already golf and start working with my dad. 225 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,280 And at the time when I was graduated, I went to Marquette 226 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:16,640 for two years, DePaul for two years. 227 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:17,920 So I had an extra quarter in there. 228 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,080 So I graduated in December and when December came around, I was 229 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,120 looking for jobs. And he said, you know, I'm about 230 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,960 to sign Matt Kutcher. And we haven't had a big tour 231 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:28,920 player on our staff in quite some time. 232 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,360 I really need somebody to help me out and, and sell and market 233 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:34,120 this. And obviously you're my son. 234 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,560 I trust you. It'd be great timing. 235 00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:40,280 So I started with him right after the PGA Show, so end of 236 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,840 January. And that was the development of 237 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:45,560 the arm lock. He started using it. 238 00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:47,800 I think it's February. We decided we were going to make 239 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,880 that putter. And when we decided to make that 240 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:54,680 putter, my job, just like we're talking now, I was doing a lot 241 00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:57,840 of sales. So I had a headset on and I was 242 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,200 always, you know, in my office standing up holding the arm lock 243 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,320 saying, Yep, you grab it with your left arm. 244 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,480 You put the butt into the grip 2 inches below your left elbow. 245 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,600 You rock the shoulders. It takes the wrists out of this, 246 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,160 the stroke. It takes the hands out and it 247 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,640 really promotes the upper body in the stroke. 248 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,600 So after doing that and for months and months, I was like, 249 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:19,520 wow, this thing feels actually really good. 250 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:21,720 So I put it in play later that year. 251 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,400 And I haven't really switched putters in the last 12 years 252 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,760 just because I'm such a believer in the arm lock technique. 253 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,360 It's helped my game probably three to four shots around 254 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,720 easily just from having that added stability. 255 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,000 Again, there's no hands, there's no small muscles that get 256 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,640 involved. So yeah, back to your question. 257 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,160 That's how I really started. And you know, the arm lock story 258 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,200 and signing Matt is, is like my baby, you know, I feel very 259 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,960 passionate about that. So what do you remember? 260 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,600 Because was this, was this like the first armlock that had ever 261 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,080 been kind of like mass released to the public at the time? 262 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,200 Yes, it was. So people had no idea what it 263 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:57,240 was. They're just like what? 264 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:01,080 People had no idea. So imagine, you know, we were 20 265 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,440 times smaller back then than what we are now. 266 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:07,000 So there's there really was no big marketing budget to tell the 267 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,120 masses. So I remember in May we went to 268 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:11,840 it's when The Players Championship was at Sawgrass in 269 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:15,440 May, we went down there. We rented a little like the 270 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,680 teaching facility at the back of the range, invited Golf Digest, 271 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,400 Golf Week, a bunch of different media. 272 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,680 And it was my father and Matt and they explained to the world 273 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,280 what we did. We we launched it, initiated it, 274 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:31,000 got it into retail stores that month in May and it just took 275 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:32,760 off. It was really, really popular. 276 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:36,280 But the challenge was, is still nobody knew how to putt with it, 277 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,240 right? They watched Matt on TV. 278 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,320 We made some YouTube videos about it, but again, we didn't 279 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,840 have $30 million to go on Golf Channel and blitz the world on 280 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:49,400 armlock technology. And then what really, to me, put 281 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,600 gasoline on the fire. That was in 2014. 282 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:57,920 Mike Davis from the USGA said that belly and long putters were 283 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,760 going to be banned and made illegal. 284 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,800 And he specifically said in his speech, the armlock technique 285 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,560 that Matt Kutcher uses will remain legal. 286 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:09,960 So it couldn't have asked for better marketing. 287 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,920 You know, just saying a armlock and B, mentioning our player and 288 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:15,520 that rules. You know, they had about a year 289 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,800 and a half to two years to stop using belly long and anchoring 290 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,160 on their body. And Mike Davis in the USGA felt 291 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,960 that, hey, we can keep armlock legal because the grip is still 292 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,760 traveling with your body to do and that anchor points not 293 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,720 moving. So that was another big sales 294 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:34,760 surge. People started going, oh, shoot, 295 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:36,680 I can't use this. Let me try Armlock. 296 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:39,640 So again, if we were to, if we were to do it all over again, I 297 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,240 wish we would have made that first model with less offset and 298 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,400 less loft where that had 2 1/2 shafts of offset and seven 299 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,760 degrees of loft. Like I said, now the arm locks 300 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:54,840 we're making are 1 1/2 shafts of lofts, offset and five degrees 301 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,760 of loft. It's less intimidating for 302 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,360 consumers to look down at. It feels a little bit easier to 303 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,920 pick up and go versus a lot of the questions we got is, hey, 304 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,120 where's ball position go? Where do I put my forearms? 305 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,120 How far do I want a forward press? 306 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,720 How little do I want? It was just it was again, it was 307 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:15,440 all brand new Cordy. So nobody really do besides 308 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,680 watching Couture on TV. And then surely around that 309 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,680 time, Webb Simpson, Keegan Bradley started arm locking 310 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:26,400 among some other players were it was more visible out on the PGA 311 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,640 Tour where where consumers could watch what golfers were doing at 312 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:31,560 the biggest stage. Yeah. 313 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,240 I mean pretty cool, pretty cool though first to market with kind 314 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:39,440 of like that product, you know, and and kind of pioneering that 315 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:40,680 that idea out there. What? 316 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:42,200 What year is that again? That that all? 317 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:46,640 Coming out of 2013. 2013 the. Development took all took place 318 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:50,760 all of 2012 and then again making all those prototypes with 319 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:55,280 all sorts of net configurations, loss offsets and finally Matt 320 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,520 Settle on the one and he won two PGA Tour events and in five 321 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,640 months with the putter. So really, really took off. 322 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:03,120 He got the number six in the world. 323 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,160 So again, we had our guy still on our staff to this day, but 324 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,560 he's using a reverse arm lock in our antidote model versus the 325 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,839 left forearm arm lock. Yeah, right. 326 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:15,800 Well, we need to, I think we need to go there. 327 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:17,400 I want to go there. But first I want to go back to 328 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:22,200 tell me about the year of of prototypes like was obviously 329 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,839 pretty involved kind of process of figuring it out. 330 00:17:24,839 --> 00:17:27,160 Was it mainly figuring out the offset and the loft? 331 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,360 Was like that the main thing? Or edge shape. 332 00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:32,480 Or was that like, well, again, Matt didn't really know what he 333 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,480 wanted. He just said, I want to be more 334 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,040 consistent in putting. And we go, you just won the 335 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:37,880 money title. Yeah. 336 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,480 But my, I, I want to win more. So he wanted to be more 337 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,720 consistent in putting. And his belief was that if he 338 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:48,360 tried this style, a different style, similar what Bernhard 339 00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:52,080 Lyer did at the 93 Masters, he would be more consistent. 340 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,200 Him and his coach, Chris O'Connell from Plain Truth 341 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,200 worked on that. And then we were the the vendor 342 00:17:58,200 --> 00:17:59,920 and the guys to make that happen. 343 00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:04,560 So again, a lot of variety with lofts, offsets, neck locations, 344 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,160 flow necks, spud necks, plumber's necks. 345 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:09,880 Just try again. Hey, Mac, we send them five 346 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:11,120 butters. What do you think of these? 347 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,000 Hey, you know, out of the five, I liked one of them, but I want 348 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,000 to change this hey, five more. What do you think of this? 349 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:21,480 So it's just that development and R&D process with Kucher was 350 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:22,960 pivotal and creating this butter. 351 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,440 Why did you land on the kind of thick blade? 352 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:30,400 Was that just a a preference thing or because he's kind of 353 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,000 stuck with the blade with the the arm lock is like kind of a 354 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,440 theme kind of going? Well, I think when you to great 355 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:40,080 question, when you're thinking about putters and you know, for 356 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,920 us what models we want to produce, if you take that wide 357 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,560 body blade, which I feel like we were really some of the first 358 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,840 people to start making that and now it's everywhere. 359 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:53,040 It's your classic, you know, BD-1 answer style head, but with 360 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,160 a wider flange, which to me allows for more confidence in a 361 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,480 dress. So when you look down at that 362 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:02,000 thing versus looking at a very skinny blade, you still have the 363 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,600 blade appearance with the top line, the muscles, the 364 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:08,600 shoulders, the the flange, right, with the, the, the 365 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,120 bumpers and everything. It's classic blade appearance, 366 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,840 but it's wider, right? So it's like somebody using your 367 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,400 butter knife blade versus going to cavity back blades. 368 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,560 Of course, cavity backs look easier to hit and add more 369 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:23,640 confidence from a dress versus that skinny blade. 370 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,040 It's the same reason why you see the top 30 players on tour. 371 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,120 I think over half of them are now using mallets. 372 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,840 They're just easier to use. They're more forgiving. 373 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,920 So same thing with that wide blade that was a more forgiving 374 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,440 and better putter from a dress that added more confidence to 375 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,840 players. So again, great model that we 376 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,240 debuted and did extremely well when we launched them. 377 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,800 OK, take me back to your pitch when you're you're in that 378 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,200 office, how do you describe to someone like, I've never had 379 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,480 one, I just bought 1. Like how do I use this thing? 380 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,720 Like teach me how to verbally walk me through how to how to 381 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:58,320 putt with it. Sure. 382 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,200 I would say, Cordy, Congrats on buying your arm lock ago. 383 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,320 It's a great putter. First thing first, you've got to 384 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:07,040 get the length dialed in. So I would say let your forearms 385 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,000 hang freely and grab the putter and put it on your arm. 386 00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:14,520 And the ideal point, which is what Matt did is the butt end of 387 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,840 the grip, which two inches below is left elbow. 388 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:22,600 So a lot of arm locks we sold back then we sold uncut to golf 389 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,080 courses and club fitters where they could take that uncut 390 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,800 putter. In measure for their member or 391 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,680 measure for their customer, where to put the shaft right. 392 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,280 So once they got the shaft down, we they gripped it, they held it 393 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,040 and they're like, well, this is weird. 394 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,480 How do I hold this? And our statement was always you 395 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,120 should have the ball position slightly forward in your stance, 396 00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:47,040 a little bit off the inside of the left toe and have a slight 397 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,320 forward press. And then from there, while I 398 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:53,120 still use armlock and love it to this day, is you're just rocking 399 00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:56,320 the shoulders, right? There's no, we have all been 400 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,000 there with A5 footer to win some money off our friends or playing 401 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,960 in a tournament where you have that five footer, your hands get 402 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,120 a little shaky, right? You take it back not too far. 403 00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:07,800 You D cell, you take it back and you push it. 404 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,680 I love the arm lock technique because it's all the big muscles 405 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,400 in the body. So just feeling like you're 406 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,680 rocking it. And one of the training tips or 407 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,560 techniques Matt always taught me was just take the arm lock in 408 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:25,880 your left hand and swing it with your left arm only, right only, 409 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:27,840 left arm only. I'm going to stand up and show 410 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,560 you right. So just just here and then put 411 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,800 the right arm on. And that just kind of acts as 412 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,440 your guide where it's just, again, it's all big muscles. 413 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,600 And that's where to me, it's still a great, great technique. 414 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,880 You still see it on the tour to this day of people using it and 415 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,960 having success. I know 0 torques taking over but 416 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:49,960 not so much on tour but it's been a good amount of guys. 417 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,000 Counterbalance has been popular, but I think for players looking 418 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,480 for another way to be more consistent and stable, arm locks 419 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:00,000 just such a such a game changer. Tell me about the right hand. 420 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,240 What do you what do you see work their best? 421 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:04,240 Just normal grip? A claw? 422 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:05,240 Like what? What kind? 423 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,680 Of thing, normal grip I've seen, yeah, I've seen guys, I've seen 424 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:10,960 guys do claw. I've seen guys like Eduardo 425 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,320 Molinari. They'll do like, you know, 426 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:14,840 reverse. They'll put it up here. 427 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,280 I've tried that. It doesn't work for me, but I 428 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,560 think for the for the customer and the golfer, you have to feel 429 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,200 comfortable. You don't want to try something 430 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,760 and it takes a couple rounds and some practice to get used to 431 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,800 because again, it is a new technique, but you got to find 432 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,880 what works best for you. I don't think there's a wrong 433 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,480 answer per SE. Work with a coach if you can. 434 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,960 If not, just take the putter out and start start hitting them. 435 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,680 Yeah, tell me about the reverse arm lock. 436 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,320 What the heck is going on there? What is? 437 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:51,000 What is that all? About that's what I said, that's 438 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,760 what I said to Matt as well. What what, what is this thing? 439 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:58,000 So same kind of concept probably three years ago said he wanted 440 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,000 to be more consistent on putting and he felt that if he put it on 441 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:07,160 his right arm, he was not, he would be able to keep his stroke 442 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,280 more compact. Sometimes he felt like with the 443 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,160 regular arm lock, he was following through too much 444 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,760 throughout the stroke. But if it's on your right arm, 445 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,400 it's harder to keep the putter head going up and out. 446 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:23,960 So to create that right-handed arm lock, number one, you need 447 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:28,160 negative loft. So we made him his putters at -1 448 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:33,160 negative 2° of loft into the face because the ball right it, 449 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:37,000 it's so far backwards. So that was a product that we 450 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,120 made for him. We've never made it at retail. 451 00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:42,960 I just think it's, it's, it's too niche and it, a lot of 452 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,920 broadcasters on TV, you know, said, hey, look at Maddie's 453 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,200 putting with this, this style where it's on his right arm. 454 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,480 What is he doing right? It's very unique. 455 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,560 But Kutcher's always been a phenomenal putter, a top 15, top 456 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,600 30 putter in strokes gain putting stats. 457 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,600 So can't argue with what works for him. 458 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,880 And I remember the first time he put it in play, he texted me 459 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,280 Sunday night, he goes look at that, look at those stats. 460 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,240 I just led the field and strokes came putting. 461 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,040 So he was so he was so excited. And again, can't argue what he 462 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,400 wants. These tour players know exactly 463 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,400 what they want. They know what they want within 464 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,240 a, you know, centimeters, millimeters, right? 465 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,840 They are very, very precise in their their bills and their 466 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,960 requests of what we make them. So if that's what he wanted, 467 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,760 that's what he gets. I like it. 468 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,320 So I'm I cannot go by the reverse arm lock on your website 469 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:35,000 then. Is that what you're? 470 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,000 Is that what you're talking? We can make you one to tinker 471 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,760 with, but I don't, I, I don't think it's, I don't think it's a 472 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,400 putter for the masses. I think, again, arm lock was 473 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,080 challenging enough for people to get used to where that right arm 474 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:51,560 lock just feels to me very awkward on how to set up. 475 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,560 But again, Coocher's got 10 hours, 12 hours a day to go 476 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,720 practice and make it happen. Any downsides to Armlock in 477 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,280 general that you've seen? I know when we talked to Marty, 478 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,760 he was saying that something that they've seen a little bit 479 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,400 as maybe like speed control and leg putting and stuff is 480 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,840 something that might be a downside of of Armlock. 481 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,120 Have you have you seen the same? Any other thoughts on potential 482 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:19,360 like downsides to to Armlock? I haven't because I I've used it 483 00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:21,760 for 12 years and it's the best thing that's ever happened to my 484 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,960 putting a lot. I agree with what Marty said is 485 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,160 that some people it takes, again, it takes time to get used 486 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,800 to lag putting because your arms are connected and you're losing 487 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,840 a little bit of that feel that paint brush stroke of your arms 488 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,080 being free and just kind of feeling the putt in the hole 489 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,600 where sometimes when I put the arm lock in time out, I grabbed 490 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:45,160 the short putter when I played some greens at 1314 in the stem 491 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,520 because I wanted just to feel the putter again versus being so 492 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,520 mechanical and robotic, right? When you set up the arm lock, 493 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,400 you're just your rock and your shoulders and you're going. 494 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,160 So I agree a little bit with that. 495 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,080 It's never been really a problem for me on speed control. 496 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:01,480 Again, I've been using it so long. 497 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,440 But to the average consumer, yes, it's a new putting 498 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:05,840 technique. It's something you have to 499 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,120 practice and you have to learn. It's like if you go get a lesson 500 00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:12,280 from your coach and he's telling you, hey, when you come on down 501 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,320 swing on your driver, I want you swinging to 11:00, right? 502 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,120 That's a whole, that's a new swing. 503 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:20,400 Somebody's going to have to practice and try and get used 504 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,720 to. So same thing for the arm lock. 505 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,160 It's a brand new technique and a new method of putting. 506 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:26,960 It just takes time. Yeah. 507 00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:29,520 Who do you recommend trying this out for? 508 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,560 Like do you tell all your friends like, hey, you got to 509 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,560 like go try this putter, like try it out? 510 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,240 Or is it just like specific people? 511 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,360 I think a lot of my friends have bought it because they've seen 512 00:26:40,360 --> 00:26:42,760 how many putts I've made and it works. 513 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:47,040 So I think anybody really that just struggles with the the 514 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,800 shorter putts and just consistency on the greens, that 515 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,840 was always my demise, those 3456 footers and that's where I saw 516 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,320 immediate improvement. So I think if you're somebody 517 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,800 that gets a little, you know, uptight around that those length 518 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:02,720 putts, this is a great model for you. 519 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,480 If you're looking for more stability and more consistency 520 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,040 on the greens, it's a great model for you. 521 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,080 Same thing I'd say with our our zero torque putters like the 522 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,360 antidote, if you struggle with putting and you want more 523 00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:16,200 stability, it's a great model. So I think Armlock, again, if 524 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,320 you have the patience to put some time in and in practice 525 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,440 with this brand new putter, this is a great model for you. 526 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,280 Did you? Have like I so I switched to a 527 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,800 long putter, probably, I don't know, a couple years ago just 528 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,440 because the right the right hand on those short putts in a 529 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,600 tournament. It I don't know, you know, it 530 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,480 sometimes feels weird. You got to get rid of it. 531 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:39,960 There's a new sensation that takes over. 532 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:41,480 We've all been there. Yeah. 533 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,280 Yeah. So I think again, if you're that 534 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,920 guy and you switched along, so people that have used bellies, 535 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,840 that have used lung, that have messed with counterbalance, that 536 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,440 use high Moi mallets, again, anyone that's looking for an 537 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,240 advantage on the greens, the armlock is is the place to go. 538 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:02,880 So tell me about Armlock since 2013 has, has it kind of been 539 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,520 consistent? Is it a thing of like you guys 540 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,640 there was a big burst and then it's kind of mellowed out over 541 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,280 time? Is this kind of alternative 542 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,120 putting kind of growing for you guys? 543 00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:15,480 Like how does it, how do you view it as a as a company? 544 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,360 Yeah, As a company, I think of it's a model that we we need to 545 00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:22,520 offer every year because we created the technology and it's 546 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,680 a great putter that works. When you think about some of our 547 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,200 customers, right, like PG Superstore, Golf Galaxy, 548 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,000 Worldwide Golf Club Champion, like the bigger accounts that 549 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,320 have stores, you know, Cup champions got 140 stores around 550 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,240 the country, they're less likely to have that as a demo in their 551 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,640 matrix of their 50 putters on their putting grade. 552 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:47,080 You know, some of the bigger stores may carry one per store 553 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:51,280 or one in their better doors. So it's definitely mellowed out 554 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,360 over time. I think we all know zero torque 555 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,800 is the big trend right now because again, that's a putter 556 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,680 someone can just pick up and go, right? 557 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,320 You don't need to learn a new style, you just grab the putter. 558 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:06,560 So I think huge burst in 2013, kind of meld out in 2014, and 559 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,720 then picked up again in a big way when the anchoring band went 560 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:14,000 into effect in 2016, and then again when Bryson won the US 561 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,320 Open. What at wing foot was that 2022 562 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:18,160 or no? That was when Fitz won maybe 563 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,680 21/20/20. Yeah, the COVID year, big surge 564 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,000 then because he was using an armlock putter. 565 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,160 So anytime the old saying in golf is what wins on Sunday, 566 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,960 sells on Monday, anytime there's been players that are using and 567 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:37,000 winning with that style or it's visibly noticeable on TV, we'll 568 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,880 see a little bit of an uptick. So I think overall it's mellowed 569 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:40,800 out. It's something we're going to 570 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,880 carry for a long time, but it's not surging by any means 571 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:46,400 tonight. Like you mentioned, it's an 572 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,640 alternative putting style. What do you what do you predict 573 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:55,200 over the next five years? Like on tour, it's Bryson. 574 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,640 Matt plays one. Does anyone else play in our 575 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,760 mock on tour? I think web. 576 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,840 I think web still plays one. Yep. 577 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,480 Do you do you think we're going to see that stay the same? 578 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,520 Do you think we're seeing more players playing an arm lock in 579 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:12,880 in three, five years? What? 580 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,360 What's your prediction? Well, my prediction was when we 581 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,600 launched it that there should have been a lot more players 582 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:23,320 using it because it just works. So why more players haven't 583 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,040 adapted to it? I know I work with a lot of 584 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,600 great amateurs and a great a lot of professionals and I always 585 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,880 mention them, Hey, if you're struggling with putting, why not 586 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,960 try arm lock? And a lot of the statement is I 587 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,040 just can't get used to it, right? 588 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,920 I just can't. I can't, can't fathom using this 589 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:41,960 style right. Again, it's a change. 590 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,920 It's something that if you want to put the time into and become 591 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,560 a better putter, I think I'm I'm living breathing testament of 592 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,560 that style because I was a horrible putter. 593 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,080 Now I think it's the strength of my game. 594 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,320 So I'm a huge believer in the technique. 595 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,240 I think for, you know, I have a son who's seven years old and 596 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,160 this summer I put him into an arm lock and play some US kids 597 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,200 junior valve turns. I put him into an arm lock. 598 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,240 He loved it for about a round and then he hated it. 599 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,040 So I were teaching the next my kids and to play golf. 600 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,040 I would want to get him into an arm lock because I feel like 601 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,440 it's almost like cheating. But back to what I've echoed 602 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,840 throughout this segment is that it is a change. 603 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:21,160 It is something you have to get used to. 604 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,520 You have to put practice in, so I'm shocked there's not more 605 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,320 players using it, to be honest. So having said that, looking at 606 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,480 what people are using, I think it's going to probably stay 607 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,640 pretty static. Unless somebody big comes around 608 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,560 like a Schaeffler and starts winning everything with that arm 609 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,360 lock technique, or the next big player starts winning with it, 610 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,320 it's going to stay probably where it's at. 611 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,160 Yeah, I mean, you would have thought Bryson's influence would 612 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:48,480 have propelled it to more popularity, but just it doesn't 613 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,520 seem like it has, you know? It is not. 614 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,560 OK, before we wrap, let's get your 92nd thoughts on the long 615 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,320 putter just 'cause that's part of the series too. 616 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:57,360 Talking about it. What? 617 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,320 What's your thought on on on the long putter? 618 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,800 Yeah, we launched our long putter in September, the SB-2 619 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,240 long. It's the same head I'm holding 620 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:11,480 right here where we engineered that head to have a line goal of 621 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,480 79°. It's a 500 gram head because the 622 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,480 long putter we know is, you know, 45 to 4849 inches in 623 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,000 length. So it's a very heavy head. 624 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,720 I tried it for about 8 minutes and I just couldn't figure it 625 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,040 out. I know there's a lot of, you 626 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,760 know, some of my friends, a lot of our customers that swear by 627 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:29,880 it. Since we've launched it, they've 628 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:31,400 been selling pretty, pretty well. 629 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,400 You know, there's a lot of online groups, you know, the 630 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,480 broomstick Mafia, right, that that love that broomstick and 631 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,000 swear by it. My personal belief, right, is 632 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,240 that I don't understand how somebody likes the stability of 633 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,040 the broomstick not being connected to your body. 634 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,960 So now you have two factors. You have this arm hand that can 635 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,920 wiggle and you have the right hand that could also move 636 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,240 around. So now you have to think of two 637 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,080 things to keep quiet, where again, the arm lock, you put it 638 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,120 on your forearm, you rock the shoulders, it's done. 639 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,120 The broomstick, you're here and you got this. 640 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,160 You either do the pencil right or the grip. 641 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,400 I, I can't wrap my mind around it. 642 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,080 So maybe you tell me otherwise why you like it, Cordy, but 643 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,960 somebody's got to explain it to me better than what's going on. 644 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,880 I think that you're a man that has firmly been in the Armlock 645 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,080 camp since 2013 and I don't think you're getting out of it 646 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,120 anytime soon. I tried because my I did have 647 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,960 some putting woes this summer. So I went to the studio in July 648 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:34,240 and tried to use the broomstick. And again, just the thought of 649 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:38,200 this being loose with my left arm, maybe just say, you know, 650 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,680 like Shark Tank, I'm out, right? I just can't do it. 651 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,120 So this was your first launch into the long putter this 652 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,400 September? First launch in a long time. 653 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:52,240 We used to make bellies and long putters back in, you know, OO 6 654 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:57,400 to 2010 eleven, the baby Ben which which was this putter I 655 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,600 brought up earlier, we made this at a broomstick in a belly 656 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:02,520 putter. This is the model Jim Furek won 657 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,920 the US Open with in 2003. So we have made it before, but 658 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,080 they just died out in popularity when the arm lock and the belly 659 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,679 band was announced or the anchoring band was announced. 660 00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:16,800 So Fast forward to now, the broomsticks come back in a big 661 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,000 way and people are always looking for ways to putt better. 662 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,639 We wanted to make it. They've been going great. 663 00:34:21,639 --> 00:34:23,159 It's just not something I would use. 664 00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:26,840 Got it, got it. OK, so if someone's listening to 665 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,000 this, you're like, hey, I want to try out in an arm lock. 666 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,040 They could maybe go on eBay like I didn't grab one of the 667 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,120 original models which I am excited to see when it gets here 668 00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:39,920 and see those 7° of loft. What else? 669 00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:42,120 Let's see I've I've got your website open here. 670 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,719 Let me see if I can. I'm going to share my screen. 671 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:49,719 Yeah, we offer the BB28 lot back in an arm lock, all the innovate 672 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,840 heads there it is right there. The BB28 were sold out on those 673 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,080 because we have our new models coming out very soon. 674 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,000 Those innovates are the other three or four months till end of 675 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,920 life cycle. But yeah, we have our 28 great 676 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,400 model. I would highly recommend going 677 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,560 to one of our trusted retailers. Find a dealer on our website, 678 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,000 visit them and go get fit for it. 679 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,120 I would say unless you you kind of know what you want, order it 680 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,960 online, try it out great. We have a nice exchange of 681 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,160 program within 14 days. As long as it's new you can send 682 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,280 it back to us. But if not got to get fit, go 683 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,680 try it. Go feel it in person to figure 684 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,480 out the length. I think the length is a number 685 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,800 one to figure out what what you want to do. 686 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,240 Got it. And you can just, so this is 687 00:35:33,240 --> 00:35:35,960 kind of what's your setup. Do you, you go like just for 688 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:37,920 someone if they're curious, like what's your height and like 689 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,960 what, what do you do? Yeah, I'm 6 feet tall. 690 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,040 My arm locks 42 and three quarter inches. 691 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:49,200 I have 5° of loft and my lie angle is at 69. 692 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,680 OK. So I'm slightly flat, our 693 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:57,240 standard loft of five and I'm a little bit longer because I got 694 00:35:57,240 --> 00:36:00,520 some back issues and I want to stand taller to the ball versus 695 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,120 being a lot lower. And again, a funny story couch. 696 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,840 He started at 44 inches and even got down at one point to 40 697 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,440 inches. So he's messed with it over the 698 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,920 years on his posture and how tall he wants to be and where he 699 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,320 wants to hold the putter. So it's just something everybody 700 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,480 who's listening, just try it, go mess around with it and just 701 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,480 tinker it on a putting green and see what feels good. 702 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:23,600 Very good, Sam. Thank you for your time. 703 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,080 It's fun to hear the story, kind of get the background of of 704 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,920 where it started and kind of your thoughts on it today. 705 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,000 It's cool. Thank you, Courtney. 706 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:31,720 I appreciate it.