1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,040 If you have ever thought about armlock putting, today's episode 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,200 is for you. Sit down with Marty Jurtson. 3 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:10,240 He is the VP of Fitting and Performance at Ping and all 4 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,680 around a super interesting guy with a ton of knowledge. 5 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,320 And today I'm asking him everything about armlock putters 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:21,000 from what technique to use, why does it work, what are the 7 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,160 drawbacks because there's a big drawback that he talks about and 8 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,960 then what are the specs of a putter that you should look at? 9 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,480 I'm excited about this because this is kicking off a series. 10 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:31,520 I am. I'm super interested in things 11 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,600 that are kind of on the fringe of golf and armlock putting and 12 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,000 then long broomstick putting are two of those things. 13 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,200 So we're going to do 2 series. We're going to look at armlock 14 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:45,520 putting and go really deep with coaches, players and guys like 15 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,800 Marty who are involved in the equipment of this. 16 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:51,200 So today we're kicking the series off on armlock putters. 17 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,560 I could use your help before we get to this episode, if you 18 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,760 could subscribe to our podcast channels, whether you're 19 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:01,520 watching on YouTube or Spotify, give it a like leave a comment 20 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:03,280 or review. It mean a lot as we're growing 21 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:05,880 our podcast. Again, I'm really enjoying 22 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:07,680 having all these chats. I want to make these really 23 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,880 interesting deep dives and share all the behind the scenes 24 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,800 content here on the podcast. So eventually all of these 25 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,760 interviews will make like A1 main guide, which we'll post on 26 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:19,280 the the golf well YouTube channel. 27 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,400 But I'm excited about this. Hit that subscribe button would 28 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:30,680 really help us out. So here we go, everything 29 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:32,680 Armlock. I guess the question is like, 30 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,040 what's your experience with with armlock putting? 31 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,840 Man, Cordy, man, not me personally, I've tried it all. 32 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:42,000 I went to a broomstick long putter and I used I did that for 33 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,640 like 20 years and it was mostly like, I think everybody in the 34 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,480 stigmas like popping the balloon on the stigma of putting 35 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,360 alternative style. Now you can do whatever you 36 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:53,280 want, man. I mean, we, we ran the numbers. 37 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:57,240 There's more tour, more PGA, higher percentage of PGA Tour 38 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:00,400 players using broomstick than on the Champions Tour. 39 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,040 So I'm like all the stigmas gone. 40 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,080 There's like permission to trip putt any different style now. 41 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,720 But I did early on because Kevin Stadler used the long putter and 42 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,520 I was, I was playing with him a lot of golf with him at the same 43 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,080 home course in Colorado. We were both amateurs, same age, 44 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,320 playing amateur stuff, and he was kicking everyone's rear end 45 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,800 and just sweeping them in, you know, and I was like, oh, that 46 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:21,800 looks fun, I'm going to try that. 47 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:23,200 I didn't have the yips or anything. 48 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,680 I was just wanted to try it and I, I loved it. 49 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:27,880 But there's a long learning curve to that. 50 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,840 And I think that'd be fun to dive into for both long, long 51 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,240 and in armlock style. But I think there's just 52 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,880 permission to putt with different styles now, you know, 53 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,080 like the stigma's gone. When do you feel like that 54 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,240 changed or like what in your your brain? 55 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:42,680 Like when did that tick over between like, Oh my gosh, she's 56 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,400 a weirdo because he has, you know, he's using a long putter 57 00:02:45,640 --> 00:02:46,680 to now. It's like pretty normal. 58 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:50,040 Yeah, no, it, it seemed like it was like in the in the in the 59 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,880 old days, whatever you had, you had Rocco Mediate and these guys 60 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:55,640 that you had like a couple that did the long putter on the on 61 00:02:55,640 --> 00:02:59,080 the PJ tour, you know, and then VJ did it for a while, but it's 62 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,320 still kind of niche now. You got the young one, the young 63 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:05,280 kids using the long putter. And I think that's when it 64 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:06,920 really changed. That's really been the last 65 00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:11,720 like, you know, 5 plus years here, but definitely does not 66 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,960 necessarily make putting easier. There's a long learning curve 67 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,520 and there's different ways I think to power the stroke that's 68 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,080 kind of rooted in some bio mechanics would be to be fun to 69 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:23,360 dive into. We're going to do it. 70 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,760 I do want to let you know that the hate for the the long putter 71 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,800 is alive and well. If you visit our channel's 72 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:31,920 YouTube comments, plenty of people. 73 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:35,920 I broomstick it live on on the channel and there's plenty of 74 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:37,520 hate out there. So it you know. 75 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,040 You do that and dude, dude, take a nice long time to aim point 76 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,200 your putts and yeah, yeah, you'll be a happy camper 77 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:44,680 stepping. Everyone's lying on the way up, 78 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,320 too. That's a good idea. 79 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:52,360 OK, so let's let's kind of start into maybe some of the technical 80 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,400 side of things like you like you talked about. 81 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,760 So let's start with with Armlock. 82 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:58,560 And you, you said you Armlock right now, right? 83 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:00,040 Yeah. So actually, so, yeah. 84 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:04,320 So the last couple years after the anchoring band, so I kind of 85 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,840 moved the long putter off the chest really struggled for about 86 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,240 a year work with David Orr actually on helping me kind of 87 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:12,600 with some things with the long putter. 88 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,120 I put it, I put it pretty good, but then I went to arm lock had 89 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,560 a really good putting season, but it was, I was very 90 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,160 inconsistent with it. I would be really hot, like my 91 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,960 good putting would be great and my bad putting would be, would 92 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,480 be worse than normal. So then in this last year, I 93 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:31,640 went to wrist lock with a lighter putter in a little less 94 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:35,600 like in plane torque, like tension against the through the 95 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,640 lead wrist against my forearm. And I've absolutely loved it. 96 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,120 So I've kind of evolved from arm lock to wrist lock. 97 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,240 And so yeah, I do. I do have personal experience 98 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,560 with long arm lock and wrist lock. 99 00:04:47,840 --> 00:04:49,400 There we go. Is this you use this? 100 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:51,360 Is this what you do? Yes, that one. 101 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,720 OK, it's funny, I, I built this putter probably like, I don't 102 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,920 know, five years ago, six years ago and I didn't do it right. 103 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,200 And that's we need to talk about that because this is just a 104 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,440 normal putter. Build with it on and it does. 105 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:06,120 It's not. Don't advise that. 106 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,040 Don't put that grip on a normal putter. 107 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:13,320 Yeah, yeah. So OK, so I guess why, why is 108 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,360 armlock potentially a better option or like what technically 109 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:20,080 do you think makes it more beneficial than just a normal, 110 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:21,680 normal putting stroke? Yeah. 111 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,520 So I think that the very interesting thing about armlock 112 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,080 is that when you think about how you power the stroke like the in 113 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:30,920 plane torque, I mean it's kind of hot topic in the putting 114 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,000 world like 0 torque. But to power the putter to get 115 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,160 them to solve for the right club head speed of the putter, which 116 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,680 is solving for your speed or your pace control, most of that 117 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,920 is coming through your wrist, through your wrist, applying the 118 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,560 in plane torque. That's like the main torque 119 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:50,120 you're applying that never gets to 0, not even approaches 0. 120 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:54,560 That's how you power the putt. So, so for a lot of golfers, if 121 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:58,120 maybe they're speed controlled or pace controlled, their 122 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:03,480 ability to solve for the right putter velocity, it impacted 123 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,720 control your pace. If that is variable and you're 124 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,560 kind of maybe overactive, like you have, you have too much 125 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,960 variability in the power or the torque you're creating through 126 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,520 the wrist. That would that would mean you 127 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:20,040 might be a candidate to try arm lock because you're taking that 128 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,400 main mover out of the stroke on most putts. 129 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,200 And then we'll talk a little bit court about you see Kucher and 130 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,200 these guys hitting a 3040 footer. 131 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,360 They're just using it like a normal putter and the the lock 132 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:32,840 is coming off. There's no lock. 133 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,760 You know, there's light touch at the beginning and then they're 134 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,120 letting the wrist because you have to add that power to get 135 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,640 your touch on the long putts. So I think the benefit would be 136 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,880 that you're taking out that main mover, that main torque, and 137 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,280 then you're and then in order to power the putter, it needs to 138 00:06:49,280 --> 00:06:51,440 come from somewhere else. So it's coming through the 139 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,840 shoulders, the elbows or the abdominals, right? 140 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,320 Those could be how you power the stroke. 141 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,120 So it could in putting, I think it's it, it can be very 142 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,240 beneficial. And we've seen this with some of 143 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,880 our stack putting data. When people switch putters, they 144 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,920 put better to kind of change your motor pattern. 145 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,960 Like like if you take this main mover, this main torque out and 146 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:17,520 limit it way down or turn the turn the volume way down, then 147 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,880 you have to in order to control your speed or get some speed 148 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,720 back on the putt power the putter with something else. 149 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:28,280 You know, elbow, shoulders, abdominals being the being the 150 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,960 main options there. And I think that's, that's, you 151 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,640 know, somebody you might want to try Armlock or if you experiment 152 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,560 with it, you're like, whoa, this is very different. 153 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:38,720 And it's because you're like, you know, it's like you're 154 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,760 controlling the sound and the, you got the bass and the treble 155 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:43,680 and you're going to turn the bass way down and you're going 156 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:45,520 to tweak up the treble a little bit and you get a totally 157 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,920 different experience. So to summarize, we are 158 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,960 currently in a in a normal putting stroke using probably 159 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,000 our wrists to power the putt. A good. 160 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,560 Percentage, yes, OK. And even if we're trying to use 161 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:00,520 our shoulders, right, they're like roots. 162 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:03,920 OK, so when we go to arm lock, we're we're going to eliminate, 163 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,120 we're just going to take them out as much as we can. 164 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:09,880 Yep. So our for our force generators 165 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,680 are now looking at the shoulders and actually having to move 166 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:16,680 those larger muscles. Yeah, shoulders, elbows, ABS, 167 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,360 you know, or some combination, you know, and that combinations 168 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,600 do a little different for everybody, but it's it's a fun 169 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:25,040 thing to experiment with. I think for both long and arm 170 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,400 lock or just traditional putting, it's fun to try to just 171 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:30,520 isolate how you power the stroke. 172 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,320 Like do it like, you know, just play around with like I'm going 173 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:37,280 to do I Sal Aoki like he's the anti arm lock, right? 174 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,480 He's like no moving anything, just all risk boom, boom. 175 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:44,240 And the reason why he he and others back in the day, you 176 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,680 watch Arnold Palmer Putt or whatever back in the day had to 177 00:08:46,680 --> 00:08:49,200 do that is because the greens were so slow. 178 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:53,760 The greens were very slow. Therefore you evolve to just 179 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,800 power it with more risk. Like it's, it's, it's just, it's 180 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:00,840 just natural nowadays, the greens on tour super fast and 181 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,040 you can have the Matt Kuchers of the world that can do armlock 182 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:05,880 for a long period of time. Now. 183 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:09,160 That's kind of my warning to maybe the club golfer out there. 184 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:12,000 If you're playing, if, if your home course does not have fast 185 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:16,800 greens, slow greens, like I use armlock at Frisco last year in 186 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:18,840 the PGA Professional National Championship. 187 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,640 And I had all these like, you know, 30 to 60 foot lag putts 188 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:24,480 because it's all windy and the greens are firm. 189 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:25,440 You couldn't get close to a hole. 190 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,680 But I'm trying to hit greens and Reg and I had a really hard time 191 00:09:28,680 --> 00:09:30,560 with like putting there with the arm lock. 192 00:09:30,560 --> 00:09:32,760 So that's the kind of part of why I went to wristlock because 193 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,720 you don't have the power, right. So for your club golfer, 194 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,920 recreational golfer out there, I would probably not advise to do 195 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:42,880 arm lock if you play on slow green. 196 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,360 If you play on slower greens, I think it's kind of more of a 197 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:49,080 faster green tour player bias type of technique because of the 198 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,760 powering. Who do you think is a good fit 199 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:55,200 to make a switch to this? So like I started exploring this 200 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:59,360 field because for me, if you get me in a lab, you know, like in a 201 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,880 fitting room, like like there I can hit putts and and make 202 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,680 beautiful strokes and make tons of putts with a normal 203 00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:10,080 conventional grip and all this. But if you get me with a sliding 204 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:14,480 6 footer that I'm trying to make to win a match, like things my 205 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:16,760 right hand just like things start happening, right? 206 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:17,560 Yeah. So it's like. 207 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,480 I've been there. I entered that realm of I could 208 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:22,520 do it really beautifully. Yeah. 209 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:24,280 In a, in a controlled setting, yeah. 210 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:26,720 But I couldn't. But I found when, you know, for 211 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,680 me, like that was why I started going down this, this path of 212 00:10:29,680 --> 00:10:31,320 like trying different stuff. Like who? 213 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,080 Who do you think is a good fit? Yeah, so Cordy, man, you nailed 214 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,120 it, man, the six footer, you know, so I talked about powering 215 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,520 the lag putting, but in reality, you know, you know, from all the 216 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:44,640 strokes gained stuff is that, you know, you're putting skill 217 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:48,960 from that 4 to 12 foot range 6. If you can make a ton of 6 to 8 218 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,680 footers, you can really separate yourself from the competition. 219 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,560 This is This is why Luke Donald was #1 in the world there for a 220 00:10:55,560 --> 00:10:58,040 while. He he was he was materially 221 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,080 better in that 6 to 8 foot range. 222 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,400 The armlock is great for that in my if you get overactive heebie 223 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,760 jeebies, the shakes, yippie, whatever you want to call it, 224 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,600 because you can. It's it's now that the anchoring 225 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,320 band is in place and you can only fix something below the 226 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,120 elbow. It gives you the ability to Max 227 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,600 out. So I've this is certainly and 228 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,720 maybe you've experienced this when you've played around with 229 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,760 it. Now you can go maximum in plane 230 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:30,360 torque, like push the putter grip against your forearm and 231 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:34,560 you I would go maximum, like put all my tension in there, right? 232 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,680 And then do the stroke and power with my abs or shoulders, right? 233 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:41,160 So it gives you a place to maximize the tension, right? 234 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,960 And I think if you probably, if you measured the forces and 235 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,920 torques that like Bryson is doing through all his wrist 236 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,520 joints and and forearm, you can see the white knuckles happening 237 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,800 in there, you know what I mean? So it gives you that ability to 238 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:58,520 go maximum on the tension, which is harder, which is obviously 239 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,960 harder if not impossible to do with traditional style putting. 240 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,680 Do you think or have you ever advised somebody who puts fine 241 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:10,440 with a normal putter to switch to an arm lock or or broom sick? 242 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,360 Or are you pretty much like, hey, if you're fine at the 243 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:14,360 normal putter, let's just let's keep you going with that? 244 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,440 Yeah, I think, you know, whether it's in the lab or through stack 245 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:21,040 putting analysis, it's it's, it's, it's, it's only if you're 246 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,640 looking to solve a specific problem, right. 247 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,680 So maybe it is when you're you know, when in the lab you can 248 00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:29,920 roll a good, but in tournament play, you you get nervy, right? 249 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,960 These are the areas. So that's the value of maybe 250 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,920 tracking your encore stats, being very in tune with your, 251 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,440 with your game, your ability to like, you know, I've, I've 252 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:40,920 certainly experienced this big time myself where I'll use the 253 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:44,120 technique and practice or casual play and I'm like putting 254 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,120 literally lights out. Then I get in a tournament and 255 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,200 it's, yeah, when the nerves are there, it's, it's not working. 256 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:51,800 You know, you need to go to something different. 257 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,520 I've, I've gone to the point, even myself, Cordy, where I've, 258 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:56,920 I've carried 2 putters in one round. 259 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:58,920 I'm like, dude, I'll arm locks feels great. 260 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,800 But when I get nervy, I need to go back to the long putter, you 261 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,800 know. So I think being very in very in 262 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:10,040 touch with that with the player is super important. 263 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,360 But to answer your question, I would say no. 264 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,520 Like if if somebody's skill is there with traditional style 265 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,560 putting, maybe it's a grip thing. 266 00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:20,080 Maybe maybe it's going to the claw of the pencil or something 267 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,040 there with you're trying to solve for something with their 268 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,240 lead hand versus trail hand and how they're applying force to 269 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,400 the putter. Again, to it kind of comes down 270 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:29,800 to what problem you're trying to solve. 271 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,600 Are you trying to solve lag putting pace control? 272 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:36,400 Are you trying to improve their reduce their delivered face 273 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,720 angle variability? Big 1 and I think Armlock can do 274 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,480 that for folks. It can help them with reducing 275 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,160 their delivered face angle variability if you kind of have 276 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,480 some of the some of the heebie jeebies at times. 277 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,280 I haven't heard that term before but I love it. 278 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:52,840 Delivered face angle variability. 279 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:57,160 Walk me, walk me through that like what is what's tour level? 280 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:59,640 What's amateur? Tell us some about that and how 281 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:01,400 that. Oh man, we're, we're doing some 282 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,840 awesome research on that. You know, we just got the Zen 283 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,400 green stage. We just did a huge test of like 284 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,320 all different skill levels that are hitting right to left or 285 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,240 left to right or straight putts. And we're looking at both where 286 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,720 they aim, where they intend to aim, where they actually aim, 287 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:17,920 and then they're delivered face angle variability. 288 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,040 And ultimately it's like breaking putts. 289 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:25,680 You got to marry this the the read the speed and the start 290 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:27,920 line to make the putt right. And you have this kind of make 291 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,640 banana, the shape which is you can hit putts higher with less 292 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:34,040 speed, less break with with more speed or kind of optimal or 293 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,360 middle middle of the road break with with medium speed. 294 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:38,640 So you have this kind of make banana and certainly we're 295 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,320 seeing that the more skilled players have less delivered face 296 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:45,720 angle variability to their to their intended start line, 297 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,960 right. So we want to try to solve for 298 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,960 that in the fitting process or you as a golfer want to you want 299 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,000 to train for that or try to reduce that because face angle 300 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,880 in putting is king like path does not matter. 301 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,440 You've probably seen people do those crazy strokes or just 302 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,280 think of Billy Mayfair back in the day with the build, you 303 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,560 know, loopy stroke. But his his delivered face angle 304 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:09,320 was king is because of the ball flight laws of a putt, you know, 305 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:10,800 called the putt flight laws, right? 306 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:15,400 Your face angle is going to control 90% depends on what ball 307 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:17,200 you're using your face insert and stuff like that. 308 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,520 But let's call it 90% ish of your start line. 309 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,520 So you really want to train and try to reduce that delivered 310 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:25,120 face angle variability. What? 311 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,400 What do you got any tips for us? Like how do we train that? 312 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,760 What what are the best ways to? I mean, I just look at 313 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,280 everything the tour players do with their block practice. 314 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,960 I mean, that's to me with the, you know, all the little 315 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,560 training aids that are out there with the mirrors and the two TS 316 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,280 and in the Tiger, you know, well, the tiger drills more, a 317 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,520 little bit more for impact centeredness, but all those 318 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,520 things where you train your, your hit it through a couple 319 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,640 tight Tees. There's a million different 320 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:51,480 drills out there. I think it, you know, leaning 321 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,640 towards the tour players because that's why they spend so much 322 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,640 time on that practice screen hitting their intendants, 323 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,880 because you know, they, they, they evolved to know and realize 324 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,800 with their coaches and then and themselves how important 325 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,320 reducing the delivered face angle variability is. 326 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:07,840 Yeah. I, I think something really 327 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,560 interesting is my guess is on your studies you've seen that 328 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:13,280 delivered face angle variability. 329 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:17,680 There we go, that it's more difficult to control on curving 330 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:19,800 putts than straight putts, I assume, right? 331 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,640 Yes. Yes, we have seen that, yes. 332 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:26,560 They're doing UAC pros but I I don't I know probably a lot of 333 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,520 other games don't, but doing start line drills on breaking 334 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,000 putts. Breaking putts absolutely yes, 335 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,840 yeah, yeah, if you're if you're going to spend some time with 336 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,520 that, I think it's and that's exactly what we did when we did 337 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:41,840 this big Zen test is we said, hey golfer read this putt and 338 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,840 tell us where your intended start line is, right. 339 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,920 So you would go out there and you put a little marker there 340 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:50,400 and then we would, we would capture that in our, in our 341 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:55,000 virtual system XXYZ coordinates to see where that golfers 342 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,080 intended start line is. Cordy. 343 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:58,560 I mean, the results are crazy, man. 344 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:00,360 We, we should, we could do a whole nother podcast on the 345 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:04,760 results we saw from this test. Like we have players like me on 346 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:09,520 one hand where I, my, I try to read the putt very true aim 347 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,599 point is where 2% putts. I'm doing the finger thing. 348 00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:15,680 I'm adjusting the distance for the pace. 349 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,000 I'm trying to get hit the putt in the center of the banana, 350 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,880 which is medium speed for medium capture. 351 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:23,680 So I'm doing everything very textbook. 352 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,760 Then you got players like my my colleague Jim Canaus, tour 353 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:28,319 player just won the Colorado Open. 354 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,000 He's like aiming his left to riders, a little rider where he 355 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,080 intended and then he's and then he's aiming his right to left or 356 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,840 is like way, way to the right or where he intended to stardom and 357 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,320 adjusting his speed and his delivered facing on both of 358 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,840 those. He outputs me, but he doesn't a 359 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:47,000 totally different way. So it's really, really 360 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,480 phenomenal. And then folks different like 361 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,480 pace and targeting strategies. The person who putted best on 362 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:57,040 this test, who made the most putts had like very drippy like 363 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,240 maximize the capture speed. So he made all the putts. 364 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,640 So the better hit his speed control was he changed his 365 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,360 targeting strategy to make the putt with lower speed and he 366 00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:10,880 made the most putts, right. And maybe that one be the best 367 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:16,160 practice over over over a career or a season of golf. 368 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,720 But he won. He won the punting contest in 369 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,560 this this big test that we just did with with that strategy. 370 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:23,760 Wow. Interesting. 371 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,840 OK, OK, All right, sidetrack complete. 372 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,320 Now that we understand face, oh boy. 373 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:32,240 Variable face. Delivered face angle 374 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,520 variability. Delivered face angle variability 375 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,680 of DFA face. Angle. 376 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,160 Yeah, DFA. Let's come up with a new acronym 377 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,840 here. OK, now we got that under 378 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:44,680 control. That's our goal obviously, right 379 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,760 with all putting is to to minimize that. 380 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:48,680 OK, so back to our arm, arm lock. 381 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:53,800 Give me like learning this. I think that might be one of the 382 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,920 underrated things that people do is they, you know, they had, 383 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,240 they hit some putts for a couple days and they're like, I'm no 384 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:01,000 better than normal and then they go back to normal. 385 00:19:01,360 --> 00:19:03,640 Yeah, so. Why not a good strategy, yeah. 386 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,600 So when we we when we did a a few tests on arm lock and when 387 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,760 we give folks an arm lock putter who've never, never done it or 388 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,920 practiced it right and we just have them go put eighteen holes. 389 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:18,080 We measure them on I ping, which is our accelerometers and gyros, 390 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,400 our own app, which which has a consistency score. 391 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,040 Like how consistent is your closing angle, how much you 392 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:28,560 dynamically close the putt, your line goal and loft delivered law 393 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,280 of variability, your tempo consistency, your face angle 394 00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:34,960 delivery folks are worse. It it, it like if you just 395 00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:37,840 random person never used one hand on a putter, on average, 396 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,360 they're like 5 handicap points worse on our eye ping handicap 397 00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:43,120 score, which correlates to your golf handicap. 398 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,520 So the question is, OK, how do you improve that skill and what 399 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,360 do you do? So things we've seen with 400 00:19:48,360 --> 00:19:53,440 Armlock, a good general guide is to build it 6 1/2 inches longer 401 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:54,960 than whatever your normal putter is. 402 00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:58,440 So if you're a normal putter, 35 inches and you're like, I'm just 403 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:02,320 want to order one to try one or whatever, go to 41. 1 1/2, like 404 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:04,440 6 1/2 inches is a good general guide. 405 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,400 We got a little fuzz in there depending on how long your arms 406 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:11,080 are and in your posture and things of that nature that I 407 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:12,400 think you really want to kind of get the ball. 408 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,640 And then in terms of loft, we see folks fit into, most folks 409 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:21,120 fit into like 4 to 6° of loft. Some go to seven, some go to 8. 410 00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:24,000 Maybe a little on the extreme end when Bubba did it for a 411 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:25,320 while. Bubba walks and I'll do the 412 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,080 lefty version. He has elbow very in and he 413 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:32,200 actually didn't add any loft cuz he tucked his elbow weigh in and 414 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,960 didn't add a lot of shaffling. So folks are going to set up a 415 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,280 little bit differently with the arm lock putter. 416 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,960 I think the big thing for a golfer after you get it fit 417 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:44,080 right for loft and length is to experiment with how much tension 418 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,640 you're applying. And when I say tension, how much 419 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,000 torque you're going to put through the wrist, right? 420 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,400 And I would play around with that, like just in your mind, 421 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,800 say I'm going to rank this on a scale of 1:00 to 10:00 or 1:00 422 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,120 to 5:00. I'm going to do 10 out of 10 423 00:20:58,120 --> 00:21:01,280 here, maximum torque and I'm going to figure out how to power 424 00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:03,760 for it. And maybe that side bending and 425 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,320 a little bit of abdominals. Maybe it's you're going to feel 426 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:08,680 a little more shoulders. Maybe you have less tension in 427 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:10,920 your elbows and you're going to get a little elbows through it 428 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,880 like a Kutcher style. And he he powers it with 429 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:17,480 shoulders and kind of elbows and, and, and abdominals 430 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,840 combined and then go down to like, OK, I'm I'm going to go to 431 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:25,120 tension level one. I'm going to barely have it kind 432 00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:29,680 of contacting and torque into the lead forearm and putt that 433 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,120 way. I would do an exploration where 434 00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:36,080 you play around with the amount of torque that you apply through 435 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,200 the wrist and just see what see what's better. 436 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,040 You know, you can do it with stack putting and and capture 437 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,400 your data or just kind of do it qualitatively and and play 438 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,280 around with it. I think that's the the best way 439 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,840 to kind of experiment, self experiment and learn the 440 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,800 technique of arm lock. What's the give us the ping 441 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,760 standpoint here? What's the best arm lock putter 442 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,400 there you guys have where? What should people check out? 443 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,520 How do we how do we order that kind of stuff? 444 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,040 Yeah. No, I think we, we just, we just 445 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,840 launched an Oslo version. So we make an Oslo 446 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:09,000 counterbalanced Oslo CB and that's like it's the headway to 447 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,360 around 400 grams. It's a four at 400 grams and 448 00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:15,320 that's a great option. Yeah, great option. 449 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:20,880 Center shafted, easy to align. We have the new Alley Blue is a 450 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,560 good option if you're looking to get like a little bit of onset 451 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,240 on the putter. You're still pulling the CGS, 452 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,880 still stabilizes it, but it kind of puts the puts, obviously the 453 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,640 face and lead edge out and you get that long single alignment 454 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,800 line. I think that's super beneficial 455 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:35,960 for aiming the putter, especially if you use a line on 456 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,320 the ball. So I'd say the Oslo and then our 457 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:42,320 new Alley Blue onset are two awesome options in our product 458 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:43,480 family right now. Perfect. 459 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,560 Love it. And so 6 1/2 inches. 460 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,280 And then if let's say someone isn't getting fit and there's 461 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:49,960 ordering, what loft should they go with? 462 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,480 Like 5-5 degrees of loss. Yeah, five. 463 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,800 Yeah, you play on smoother greens, maybe 4. 464 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,800 If you play on slower, super slow, bumpier greens, maybe 6. 465 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,800 But I think 5 is a Yeah, we do all of our I ping stuff. 466 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:07,440 We see folks deliver about 1.8° less or more shafling than with 467 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,040 the traditional putter. So most, most putters have about 468 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,040 3° of loft average. So 5 is a is a is a good 469 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,400 adjustment? So let's talk about these these 470 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,120 leg putts then. Sounds like a real issue. 471 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,480 What's for you? Enough to to change, right? 472 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,320 Yeah, Tour Pro is maybe it's not an issue because the greens are 473 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,000 so quick and the ground so firm that they don't have to apply 474 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,400 that much force. So that could be a thing, I 475 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,560 guess. You obviously had to you made a 476 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,920 change because of it, right? Like it was a big enough issue 477 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:37,600 for you? Yeah, yeah, no. 478 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,560 So I think the thing with lag putting is if you're going to 479 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,480 seriously use the arm lock, you got to, you have to have a 480 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,320 technique for the lags for whatever green speed you're 481 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,520 using. So it could be that you just I 482 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,880 just needed to practice it more according you know what I mean 483 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,920 and just have a technique and I needed to practice like like 484 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,360 super long lag puts more maybe some folks play golf and the 485 00:23:58,360 --> 00:24:00,200 greens are small. You never and fast. 486 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,840 You're never even going to have a situation like this would. 487 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,240 I've noticed some of the tour players and and again, I kind of 488 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,040 default to Kutcher because he's used the arm lock for probably 489 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,080 the longest period of time. When he gets to those those lag 490 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,160 putts, he puts them normal. He just uses it like a mid 491 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,720 length putter and he he lets the putter swing, He lets the shaft 492 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,000 come off his lead forearm and he applied what he's doing is just 493 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,520 applying more torque through the wrist and lagging him up there. 494 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,560 I think that's a good technique. Yes, the loft, your loft might 495 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,160 not be optimized when you do that, but I would not worry 496 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:33,840 about it. Ball speed is king. 497 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,040 Like you don't need to worry about the launch conditions on 498 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:37,880 the skid or whatever. You know, I mean, it's like the 499 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,560 equivalent of like you're going to chip with your 7 iron. 500 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,280 You know what I mean? It, it doesn't matter at that 501 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,360 point. Your, your, your main objective 502 00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:48,640 is to get the right ball speed on that putt to get at the right 503 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,600 distance when you lag it. So if you're going to do it and, 504 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,040 and you're like, you listen to this pod, you're like, OK, I 505 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,120 need AI need to be able to lag this. 506 00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:59,120 Just practice with using it like a mid length putter and let the 507 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,000 let the shaft come off. That would that would be my main 508 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,280 tip. When we talk about like reasons 509 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,960 to do this, there are some data like improvements like I have 510 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,400 pulled up here like web Simpson, the before and after was huge 511 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:18,080 back in 20/16/2018. Will Zala Taurus or some some 512 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,120 benefit there for him like do you think? 513 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,680 I haven't looked at the data specifically, but it's, I don't 514 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,160 know if you guys have, but it's got to be the the short to mid 515 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,400 range putting improvements that help them jump, right? 516 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,240 Is there any data that you've seen that's interesting or that 517 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:34,920 you remember off top of your head? 518 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,080 I mean on arm lock, I think you get these acute examples, these 519 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,880 N equal 1 examples. If you're if we're players like 520 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,640 that, that are trying to improve in a specific area certainly can 521 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,000 have a major benefit. And again, on tour, it's like 522 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,680 most of the time if the tour can improve, the player can improve 523 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,760 their mid range putts that have the highest impact on their 524 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,840 scoring or strokes game putting, that's going to be the area 525 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:00,240 they're going to need to solve for. 526 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,880 I think we've seen that with Zealotaurus over the years. 527 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,040 And then yeah, Webb Simpson and you know, he was, he was a good 528 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,440 one, used our crazy putter. That's another good option in 529 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,480 our product family right now. Our new Scottsdale Crazy is a 530 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,040 great option if you're looking for a little like bigger, bigger 531 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,480 mallet. Is it back? 532 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,560 It's the original kind of shape and alignment archetype. 533 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,600 Dude, it's awesome. Yeah, no, crazy's back. 534 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,040 OK. That's another great one to 535 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:30,040 order is arm lock or mid length modern day kind of mid length 536 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:30,920 style. Got it. 537 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,000 What I mean, let's sidetrack here for a minute, then let's 538 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,240 maybe look at this guy. Yeah, you like this? 539 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:44,760 Obviously this idea give me a reason to should I order this 540 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:49,880 instead of an arm lock like any? So arm lock generally we've seen 541 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,960 the best performance if you go to a head weight of like 400 542 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,200 grams, right? You know, get a little more mask 543 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,480 and optimize the the ball speed and the momentum, especially 544 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,120 since you're taking that big lever out. 545 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,520 And if you if you kind of lock this lever, it it helps to kind 546 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,520 of keep the feel proprioception to go heavy in the head weight 547 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,600 to you that spatial awareness in that sense of where the putter 548 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,120 head is. So with the wrist lock, you can 549 00:27:13,120 --> 00:27:17,240 go to less tension in the wrist either head weight, like I'm 550 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,760 playing mine, I'm playing an alley blue at 370 grams and my 551 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,040 speed control on my pace and my lag putting is superb. 552 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,800 And I've gone to less tension, less in plane torque in the 553 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,240 wrist. So if I use that one to 10 554 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,360 scale, I used to with the arm lock, be it like, you know, 555 00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:37,840 78910, depending on how nervous I was or whatever. 556 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,320 Now I'm living in the three to 4-5 ring of this kind of in 557 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,880 plane torque or tension and my pace control, I can play a 558 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,800 lighter headway putter. And we've seen this in our 559 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:50,480 putter research time and time again. 560 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,960 Cordy is like if you're trying to improve your lag putting, 561 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,320 generally a lighter headway putter is better. 562 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,680 If you're trying to improve your short putting, generally A 563 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:02,160 heavier headway putters better. So by going to wrist lock it, it 564 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:06,000 can be a nice little middle ground where your pace and your 565 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,680 speed and your lag putting can be improved relative to straight 566 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,520 arm lock. That's like heavier, stiffer, 567 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,560 more ridges, but. Got it, Specs on that? 568 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,760 Like how many more inches would you recommend going longer with 569 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:19,680 this? Yeah, I think mine is. 570 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,000 I think mine is 3 1/2 longer. I can't, I can't remember 571 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,720 exactly the length of that grip, but I think it's like 11 1/2 572 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,840 maybe you know? It looks pretty long. 573 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,360 Yeah, I think I'm, I'm 3 1/2 inches longer, so I think mine's 574 00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:38,080 like 39 if I remember right. And then you got to add some 575 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,440 loft too, I imagine, right? Yeah, Yeah. 576 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,360 So that again, yeah, probably same thing like couple degrees 577 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:45,920 more. You're still going to set up 578 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,520 with more lean, you're going to still going to deliver with less 579 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,160 dynamic loft. I think good general rules 2° 580 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,480 more loft with with that wrist lock grip as well. 581 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,000 This might be a bit random, but I know some other brands with 582 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,240 Armlock will do like big offsets, right, to try to 583 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,560 account for this forward lean happening, assuming that you're 584 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,080 kind of yeah thing. You guys don't do that, right? 585 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,840 Just kind of a normal, yeah. Yeah. 586 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,440 We just, yeah, You know, I think it comes down to just how much 587 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,320 you want to be, how much we want the golfer pulling the CG to 588 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,720 stabilize it. And so, yeah, I think. 589 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,080 You might have to break that down for us, Break down that, 590 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:23,760 state that. Sentence Yeah, Joseph. 591 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:28,080 So just like if you put a tons of, you know, offset on the 592 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,080 putter, a big bend that that that gave the putter tons of 593 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,720 offset, you're creating a bigger distance between the shaft axis 594 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,880 axis, which is where you're kind of applying force through the 595 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,440 grip and the shaft axis and the center of gravity of the head, 596 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,640 right. And if that distance, we kind of 597 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,280 use the distance between the shaft and the CG to control how 598 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,440 much torque about the shaft somebody's applying. 599 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,240 If you make that distance too big, you're going into the 600 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,400 maximum torque putter realm where you're you're going to 601 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,920 force the golfer to apply a lot of rotation about the grip. 602 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,200 And that can be detrimental, right? 603 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,480 I mean, we're in an area where a lot of people or liking 604 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:09,520 experimenting with less offset or, you know, lower torque, if 605 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,760 you will, style putters. And so that's kind of countered 606 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,760 to to that idea. That can be very beneficial for 607 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:17,400 a lot of players. There's also a lot of players 608 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,040 that are using deep CG heel shafted mallets, which I I like 609 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:22,600 to call those maximum torque putters. 610 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,640 So that a lot of golfers are kind of putting with that right 611 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,680 now as well. But no, we've seen with arm lock 612 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,920 the amount of face rotation people in in about the shaft. 613 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,880 So if you had like a GoPro Cam, you're looking down the putter 614 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,200 grip, how much torque twisting the face open and closed on the 615 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,760 backstroke they have is very, very similar to a traditional 616 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,200 style putting. So we in general, we kind of 617 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,040 like keeping the offset, the distance between the shaft and 618 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,320 the CG pretty similar to traditional style putting and 619 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,600 just using offset in the same way you would for for putter 620 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,320 fitting and selection with it with a traditional style. 621 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,800 Got it, got it. OK, But maybe just we'll hit on 622 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,800 the negatives here a little bit. There are some quotes, you know, 623 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,120 if you do a quick Google search, I'm like he's Brad Faxon has 624 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,080 some quotes against it. Billy Horschel. 625 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,360 Some of these guys have said, you know, like, hey, we should 626 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,040 probably ban this method. It's they're doing some locking 627 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,280 here. It's probably not a good idea. 628 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,000 What what's your take on, on the negativity towards some of these 629 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:21,960 methods? And do you think they'll be 630 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,560 banned here in the next 5-10 years? 631 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:29,160 I I doubt it. Probably because of the probably 632 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:34,880 because of the retrospective on banning arm law, banning 633 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:36,960 anchoring. Like if you look at the number 634 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,200 of tour players anchoring before the anchoring ban and after on 635 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,200 the PGA Tour, especially the younger generation, it's gone 636 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,120 up. The number of the number of two 637 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,840 younger generation tour players using long putters after the 638 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:50,840 anchoring ban has gone up. I don't know. 639 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,480 There's a, there's not a necessarily a correlation there 640 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,000 to, to performance per SE or it's debatable. 641 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:57,800 So I don't think it'll be banned. 642 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,360 That being said, I mean you quoted some kind of golf 643 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,920 traditionalist that I generally agree with. 644 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,800 Like I think, and This is why I don't have my kid even though I 645 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,440 see a lot of young generation kids doing arm lock and things 646 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,560 of that nature, I do not have my kids doing that. 647 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,000 I want my kids learning how to power the putt. 648 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,480 I want them doing Tiger Woods putting drills, trailhand only, 649 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,240 right hand only. The magic is in the hands. 650 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,640 The met the magic of the speed is in that right hand and I'm 651 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,440 very much aligned with David or probably a brand facts and 652 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,880 philosophically on that now, even though myself personally in 653 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,720 my older age, man I'm I'm wrist lock clawing it because I don't 654 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:36,360 care. I'll do whatever to kind of 655 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,400 optimize it for me. But I think it, I think growing 656 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,440 up and as a young age, you should learn how to control the 657 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,520 pace and the ball speed with that trail hand. 658 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,160 Yeah, like. Use the wrist. 659 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,000 You know. Yeah, my 7 year old's the same 660 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,240 way. He's he he wanted, he's got the 661 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,080 ping just blade putter and he just you know, he just gets out 662 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,200 there and he can out. Honestly, he's pretty close to 663 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,720 outputting me at this point. Yeah, but, you know, he's just 664 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,920 all like set up. He's set up funky. 665 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,240 He, you know, his stroke isn't perfect, but boy, does he he 666 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,280 puts, he puts it well and he's learning. 667 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,040 And I love he's just like learning the skill of like ball 668 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:12,800 and hole, right? He's just like figuring out how 669 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,160 to get it over there. Ball and hole, I have my kids 670 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,520 putt with the right hand only and I, I have them and you 671 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:22,560 notice our prodigies all have a little bit of toe hang or slide 672 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:27,480 arc putter because you want kids to, to feel that torque, that 673 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,120 torque they need to apply is good. 674 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,920 It helps them with their proprioception, their mind, body 675 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,320 awareness. If you close your eyes and you 676 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,040 try to swing a putter with no torque, you don't know where the 677 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:39,360 face is. You're blind. 678 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,000 So you want to turn the dial up on that resistance. 679 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,240 And that resistance is very positive for your spatial 680 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:46,200 awareness. Love it. 681 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,320 OK. So I guess the the final 682 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,680 prediction armlock putters right now, I guess we've got Bryson is 683 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,240 the big example of this method at this point. 684 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,920 But like in five years from now, do you think we're going to see 685 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:01,040 more, the same or less of this method used on tour? 686 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:05,840 I would bet slightly more, but not not like crazy. 687 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,120 I think you'll see slightly more of all alternative style putting 688 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:14,000 and we'll call that arm lock long mid length is the one that 689 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,280 a lot of folks are doing now and just different grit. 690 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,560 I mean the amount of people using the claw or whatever in 691 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,000 the pencil and all that continues to go up. 692 00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:24,840 So I think you'll just see more diversity in general. 693 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,199 So a little bit more arm lock in the future, but not like not 694 00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:31,520 like A2 or 3X. That's my that's my bet. 695 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:35,040 Got it perfect okay we we've got everything arm locked figured 696 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,800 out then I want to get your okay I want to I want to cut there on 697 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,080 that thing, but I want to get your take on broomstick. 698 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,000 I don't know what you guys call them long or yeah. 699 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:47,320 Long, Yeah, okay. It's AI like the the debate 700 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,239 around the term there that. I know that you can only use 701 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,080 trademark stuff and all that I. Know I know. 702 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,000 OK so do you guys I did some digging the other day trying to 703 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,360 find a broom like a long putter on your guys website and can you 704 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,360 make a ping? Dude, yeah, we just launched an 705 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,360 Oslo long, but I don't think it's on our website yet. 706 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,920 But yeah, we just launched one. It's an Oslo long, but yeah, 707 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,040 might not be in our site yet. I well, I've been really kind of 708 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,160 stalked the paying like progression of armlock and 709 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,480 broomstick putters and like you guys did a lot of armlock like. 710 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,240 Over the years, yeah, yeah, yeah, we did. 711 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:26,960 Yeah, we. Did, but then did you kind of 712 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,480 like the sales didn't work out so then it was just kind of like 713 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,160 all right, we'll just roll it back then and not. 714 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,840 Interesting, interesting Cordy on this topic. 715 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:35,400 Dude. Can I do a screen share because 716 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,680 we made like a little fitting app for the lawn putter. 717 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:38,880 Great. Let's do it. 718 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:40,520 Yeah. OK, cool, let's. 719 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:43,760 Let's do Do you have time? You have another. 720 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:45,840 Yeah. Can you share? 721 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:47,960 Did you have a share button or do I need to do something? 722 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,080 Let me share it. Look at this. 723 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,120 Yeah, it's pretty sweet, we. Just I haven't seen this app. 724 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:53,920 Is this a public? One or is this a? 725 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,400 This is our fitting app called Ping Copilot. 726 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,600 But eventually we'll probably have this logic like on our 727 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,200 website. OK, got it. 728 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,320 All right, so let's dive into let's dive into your thoughts on 729 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,520 on the long putter. Where does ping sit? 730 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,960 Where do you sit on on this topic? 731 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,120 Yeah. I mean, our our founder, Carson 732 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,800 Solheim was a sweeper. Really. 733 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:16,400 Yeah. Yeah. 734 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,680 He, you know, the original B90 putter, you know, he worked on 735 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,720 that. And so he was a big proponent of 736 00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:25,200 the long putter. And then you know, the old Sam 737 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:29,720 Torrance, Rocco Mediate guys, Rocky Thompson, all these guys 738 00:36:29,720 --> 00:36:33,600 use the big Ping B90 long putter for for a long time. 739 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,440 So he was a big proponent of it. So yeah, we, we try to, we try 740 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,320 to support all different styles of putting out there. 741 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,840 I had no idea. OK, I'm going to go on eBay and 742 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,240 buy one of those right now. B 90. 743 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,480 Yeah. OK, OK, I'm I'm into it. 744 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,680 How what's the what timeline was this? 745 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,440 When were those being made? Do you Oh, man, I mean, he, I 746 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,920 think Carson he yeah. No, I mean in the staple like 747 00:36:56,000 --> 00:37:01,360 Ping white staff bag PGA Tour, like in the early, early 80s 748 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,200 whenever everyone's playing iTunes and if you guys were 749 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:05,760 brooming it out there. Sick. 750 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:07,840 Okay, awesome, I gotta get one of these. 751 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,360 I'm all in on that. Okay, I'm gonna find one. 752 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,000 Okay, so it's been around forever. 753 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,480 I had no idea then, yeah. B 90 We made a couple versions 754 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:20,800 of B90. It was a center shafted and it 755 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,280 was a great look, like kind of like a hot dog or whatever shape 756 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,200 to it, you know, swept up on the heel and toe. 757 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,160 And then we made one with the ISO pure insert, you know, it 758 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,960 said Ping in the face, like floating behind the face, you 759 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,840 know, and that's what Kevin Stadler used and a bunch of tour 760 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:35,400 players used used back in the day. 761 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,440 OK, I see one right now. Buy it now. 762 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,200 Our best offer for 1:48 with the ISO Pure face. 763 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,040 Come on, that would be a good keepsake for you if you pick one 764 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:45,280 of those up. I like it. 765 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:50,040 OK, yeah, this series is also just giving me an excuse to like 766 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:55,840 we're just going to get some cool random broomsticks and arm 767 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,320 locks. OK, so that's it's been around 768 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:00,640 forever at paying obviously then. 769 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,880 Yep, Yep. And now you guys are bringing it 770 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:05,120 back. Yeah, yeah. 771 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:09,600 We're launching the Oslo Long, which is a center shafted Oslo 772 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,800 man. It's a great like mid size kind 773 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:16,080 of mid between a mallet and a mid mallet size for us single 774 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,720 line on the floor enter shafted which we're seeing long putters 775 00:38:19,720 --> 00:38:22,880 folks, folks still have a little bit of face rotation or a little 776 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,400 closing angle or little kind of in plane torque in general with 777 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,160 the long putter. But center shafted, you know, 778 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,360 there is, there is less face rotation to take a little bit of 779 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,880 the torques out, minimize them just a little bit, which is what 780 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:37,240 we're doing with the center shaft. 781 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,280 We see that beneficial for most folks. 782 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,760 So yeah, we, we, we. And that's what the old B 90 783 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:45,640 was, Center shafted version. Got it. 784 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,040 Is that necessary for a good long putter is to have it center 785 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:50,680 shafted or or no? Yeah. 786 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,440 I mean, I think you see what you see in center shaft most of the 787 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,760 time is, is face balance. So whether it's a double bend to 788 00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,360 get there where, where you where you have the shaft still 789 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,000 intersecting the center of the face. 790 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,240 So if you hang it, if you hang it kind of off your finger 791 00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:07,520 there, it would still hang face balanced. 792 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,840 So most folks do best with face balanced or just a little bit of 793 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,120 toe down, you know, like 5-10 degrees to pay on the center 794 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,360 gravity depth there. So that's a good kind of general 795 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,160 guide. But over the years we have built 796 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,920 some long putters with more slide arc and you can use how 797 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,040 much arc is in it to control your miss bias. 798 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,360 And that applies whether you use a long putter or not. 799 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,400 More toe down, you'll start the ball more to the right, deliver 800 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,360 the face more open for right-handed golfer. 801 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,120 More face balance, you'll start the ball, ball more to the left 802 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,280 or you can kind of hold off a block. 803 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,320 Open face delivery. Got it. 804 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,080 OK, what? What's our next step on this 805 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,480 long, long putter here? Walk us through some of this. 806 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,480 The key Cordy is getting fit for the length. 807 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,600 I'm going to show you and I'm going to walk you through this 808 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,760 this this is in our pink Copilot app. 809 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,880 So all of our pink fitters use this app to fit everything from 810 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,160 perfect launch conditions, gapping, juniors, grip size, 811 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:05,200 color code. All that type of stuff, wedge 812 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,960 fitting. But we just launched this long 813 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,680 putter fitting logic and my colleague Jim Canals, PGA Tour 814 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:13,440 player, just won the Colorado Open. 815 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,720 He did all this research and helped build this app. 816 00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:18,080 So you know, our fitter is going to go in there, they're going to 817 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,040 click long. And this is really good because 818 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,480 it kind of helps you think about, OK, if if you're going 819 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,920 to, if you're new to the long putter, what are some things you 820 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,520 want to kind of think about or maybe experiment with as you're 821 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,320 kind of learning the skill or the technique? 822 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,800 So we've seen players over the years stand way more upright, 823 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,320 like Bernard longer, like he stands pretty upright. 824 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,760 Then you have kind of other players, you know, whether it's 825 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,880 Adam Scott or something, bend over a little bit more, right. 826 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:46,960 So, Lucas. Lover is the is the best 827 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:48,080 example. He's just like. 828 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:49,640 Totally. Way bent over. 829 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,360 Way bent over. So again, there's if, if you're 830 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,680 going to kind of dabble with the long putter, these are things 831 00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:58,320 you should experiment with, right? 832 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,440 How much am I going to bend over then? 833 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,120 And that kind of goes into your length fitting. 834 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:04,800 So what we're doing here is kind of fit in the length. 835 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,440 So let's say you're going to go Lucas Glover style, right? 836 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,840 You're going to Crouch over a lot, then you put in your 837 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,680 height. And then this measurement is 838 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,360 brand new for us, right? We would never use this. 839 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:19,040 A lot of times we use wrist to floor to measure your line goal 840 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,040 and your color code. That's kind of in our classic 841 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,480 approach, but what Jim came up with is for a long putter, you 842 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:29,560 want to use your elbow to floor. So you want to stand because 843 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,160 some people, some people have the arm their their lead arm 844 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,160 lower on the sternum, some have it higher. 845 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,680 It's kind of have their elbow. They have their elbow. 846 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,960 I'm going to turn sideways more out or more against their side. 847 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,200 And so this is going to affect your length. 848 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,040 So we actually use an elbow to floor measurement. 849 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,960 So you kind of just stand stayed straight up and we put average 850 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,360 for the height here is our default and then your elbow 851 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,480 position. So for folks maybe listen to 852 00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,760 this is like, OK, is your lead elbow going to be more tucked? 853 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,200 This is like burner longer style or is it going to be more Adam 854 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:07,240 Scottie, you know, straight out or pointed aimed at the target 855 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:11,000 or kind of in between, right. So again, these are again, while 856 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,640 we're fitting the long putter for length, this also is really 857 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:16,120 good. Like, OK, I'm going to kind of 858 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,800 play around with this and see what works best for me for my 859 00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,240 setup and how I'm going to power the stroke right. 860 00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:25,520 So there you can see as you align it more at the target on 861 00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:30,160 our little app here quarter, you can see where that that elbow 862 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,360 position kind of changes and gets kind of higher up right and 863 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,320 that changes the length. So somebody puts their their 864 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:40,160 their lead arm more at the target, their hand generally 865 00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,760 goes down a little bit. And, and we use that to kind of 866 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,320 fine tune the length recommendation of the long 867 00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,640 putter, right? So you put those things into our 868 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:53,840 app and you get a, we have this long putter upright aligned at 869 00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,200 the target. 45 inches would be a good, a good spec, right? 870 00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,160 It is a good kind of general guide. 871 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,360 Of course, maybe there'd be a little, a little variability in 872 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,280 there for everybody. But yeah, we just just launched 873 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,720 this fitting app. It's super cool, very accurate. 874 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,240 We actually train this app on all the lung putters we've fit 875 00:43:11,240 --> 00:43:13,760 over the years. A little AI approach, what have 876 00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:18,480 you on the data analysis side. So like anybody on the PGA Tour 877 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,880 that's using this app with taking these these that using a 878 00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,200 long putter and all the folks has come through our putting 879 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,880 lab, their logic works within like 1/2 an inch on their their 880 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:30,640 putter spec using this method I I. 881 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:34,640 Love this because first of all, the long putter, it does take 882 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:38,120 time to figure out what technique you want to use. 883 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:42,280 So this is like what this is also done is broken down like 884 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,760 hey, you could try these these approaches to long putting, 885 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,200 which is kind of nice. And and I've found I think like 886 00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:52,080 I am more crouched. I found that like Lucas Glover, 887 00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,160 Adam Scott thing to be quite good of like a bit more bent 888 00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:59,360 down elbow at Target. And then what do I do? 889 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,520 I think I'd like, I try to go perpendicular with the hand and 890 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:04,360 like, Yep, push the hand kind of thing. 891 00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,160 Yep. So I found, oh, I need to, I 892 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,920 need a shorter one because I need to bend over more and 893 00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:12,840 totally kind of do that, which I've, you know, I, it's great. 894 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,280 I got, I got 1 to get started with and it's help, but I do 895 00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,200 need to now get a second one that's the right height based on 896 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,960 this information. So I think it's, I think what I 897 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,480 love about this is, yeah, you've kind of figured out all the 898 00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,440 variables that could impact this and kind of laid it out. 899 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,400 So a good testing mechanism to like test all these different 900 00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,720 ideas, see what you like. Yeah, totally, totally. 901 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,400 I think Cory, for folks just getting started with the with 902 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,080 the long putter, I'd be curious to hear your experience with it. 903 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:42,400 Most people who do it, they like death grip the, the bottom hand 904 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,280 and then they, they, if you watch people first do the long 905 00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:49,080 putter, they got the, the bottom hand, the trail hand super tight 906 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,440 and then the putter's waving all over the place. 907 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,880 And the key. What I again, kind of similar to 908 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,680 what we talked about on, on, on arm lock. 909 00:44:57,720 --> 00:45:00,640 You want to run somebody through a little protocol or do this 910 00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:05,160 yourself, self protocol on the tension that you have in your 911 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,520 trail hand to grip the putter, regardless of what grip. 912 00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,480 And I think you see all kinds of traditional style trail hand. 913 00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,760 You see claws, you see palm towards the target. 914 00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,760 You see pencils claw with the, with the tent. 915 00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,240 You see the you know longer, it's got the whatever you want 916 00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:23,120 to call the fork method or what have you. 917 00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,080 I do like that one, yeah. Tons of different ways to do it. 918 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,880 I've done them all. I kind of like the I kind of 919 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:31,800 like the claw. And it will talk about the 920 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:36,080 biomechanical reason why is because the claw you can, you 921 00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,040 can support the, the weight of the putter, right? 922 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:42,160 So the, the torque you apply to keep the putter from falling 923 00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,680 down in the line goal plane. You can do that through 924 00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:50,320 squeezing the grip between your thumb and, and, and index finger 925 00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,080 here. So that's like your force you're 926 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,040 going to apply to support the weight of the putter. 927 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:59,240 And then whichever finger you're going to use, put it exactly in 928 00:45:59,240 --> 00:46:02,200 plane down the target line. And that's where you're going to 929 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,960 apply the force in plane to control your speed. 930 00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:10,800 So I really like that from a biomechanical standpoint with 931 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,760 the long putter. But what I want folks to try, if 932 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,600 you're first getting into the long putter, experiment with how 933 00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:21,400 much tension you have in the trail hand to move the putter 934 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:22,800 right. And you're gonna you're gonna 935 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:24,280 go, OK, I'm gonna go super light. 936 00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:27,240 I'm gonna go tighter and control more of the shoulders. 937 00:46:27,240 --> 00:46:30,080 I'm gonna go super light and do a little bit more elbows. 938 00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,600 John Graham, PGA Tour putting coach who's who's a PING 939 00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,240 ambassador for us. He likes to categorize people 940 00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:40,320 from in the long putter to a rocker or a pumper. 941 00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,840 So a rocker is like shoulders mostly doing the movement or a 942 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:48,840 pumper is like trail arm flexing, elbow flexing, doing a 943 00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,480 lot of the movement or you got a hybrid of both. 944 00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:54,800 So all long putters are somewhere on that spectrum. 945 00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:59,240 And so that's a really good place to explore what you like 946 00:46:59,240 --> 00:47:01,240 it and how you want to power that putting stroke. 947 00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:03,400 I think you nailed it when you said if you have too much 948 00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,360 tension on your your backstroke, you're going to see that putter 949 00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:08,720 just making figurates and all kinds of designs just. 950 00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:12,040 Waving. I think that's the definition of 951 00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:16,080 getting started with a long putter is like you're gonna have 952 00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:17,560 that. I don't know if you've ever seen 953 00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,240 anybody not do that, but when you first start. 954 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:22,960 You. Feel out of control right? 955 00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:26,000 I have no idea where this putters going or where the putts 956 00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,640 going. So like, they're the learning 957 00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:30,320 curves big in my opinion. Yeah. 958 00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:33,360 So one thing I really like folks to do with the long putter, if 959 00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:35,960 we're fitting them or teaching them or fitting teaching 960 00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,320 combined, because they're like, hey, fit me for this long 961 00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:39,240 putter. I've never tried it. 962 00:47:39,240 --> 00:47:41,480 So you're really fitting and teaching them at the same time 963 00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:45,080 is to don't have the putter statically on the ground. 964 00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:47,400 This is very important. The long putter is heavy, so you 965 00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,480 want to hover it or tap it or move it. 966 00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,360 And I like a little tiny tap, a little movement. 967 00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,880 Because what you don't want is the golfer to lean on the putter 968 00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,640 and then right when they take it back, that balance points gone. 969 00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:02,760 It's like a three legged stool. You got your two feet. 970 00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,720 And then if the putter is leaning on the ground and then 971 00:48:05,720 --> 00:48:08,680 it you pick it up and move it, your brains like, oh, where's my 972 00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:10,000 balance? And that's where you see that 973 00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,880 putter kind of waving around. So I would highly, I really 974 00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:17,120 encourage folks to kind of just lightly tap the putter or hover 975 00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:20,760 it or some combination of both. Super duper important because 976 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,720 what you want to have happen is you want to kind of break that 977 00:48:23,720 --> 00:48:26,280 inertia. You know when you take it back 978 00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,360 and get get a little velocity on the backstroke and do it in a 979 00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:31,520 very smooth way. One thing that we. 980 00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:35,520 Forgot to talk about in arm lock as well as this is lie angle of 981 00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:38,920 of these. We've talked about length of 982 00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:42,280 both of them. We talked about loft, I guess 983 00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:46,480 talk with us on the long putter here, loft and lie angle of a 984 00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,480 long like what do you guys start at? 985 00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:51,720 Yeah, loft. We still do loft at like 2° you 986 00:48:51,720 --> 00:48:53,040 know? That doesn't change. 987 00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:54,880 Yeah, we haven't seen that change. 988 00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,000 Obviously we fit it. Some players do a little bit 989 00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,080 more neutral, some not. You know, if you delivered like 990 00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,840 at zeroed out, you know, so you're so this kind of depends 991 00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:05,800 on your ball. Your ball position's the big one 992 00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:08,080 that's going to drive this in the long putter, right. 993 00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:10,440 And then your your your pivot point. 994 00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:13,600 So again, some players are very centered on the sternum. 995 00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,760 So it's like ball position relative to sternum, how much 996 00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:20,320 side bend you have in the long putter, which side bend can be 997 00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:21,960 important to get a little rise angle. 998 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:24,680 It's hard to generate rise angle in the long putter. 999 00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,880 And why that's important is in a traditional style putter, you 1000 00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:31,480 mostly use your elbows and your shoulders to get a little rise 1001 00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:33,600 angle on the putt. Long putter, you don't have that 1002 00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:37,680 option really unless you stand up in flexion or lose some of 1003 00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:40,400 your spine angle. So that's why generally you want 1004 00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:42,800 to have the ball a little bit forward and a long putter to get 1005 00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,920 a little rise angle. Then where do you, where do you 1006 00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:50,560 center the putter on your sternum and then your ball 1007 00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,360 position? Those are kind of drive the 1008 00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,240 loft. But I would say Cordy, on 1009 00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:56,960 average we do long putters at three degrees. 1010 00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:01,040 So three degrees, 2 to 4° and then line goal, line goal. 1011 00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:03,440 We build our long putters very close. 1012 00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:05,160 There's, there's a USGA rule on this. 1013 00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:08,600 You can't go more upright then then 10° or 80 if you measure 1014 00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:11,720 from the ground plane. And so we build ours right there 1015 00:50:11,720 --> 00:50:16,600 like 10 1/2 or 79 1/2 just to give us a little of safe zone 1016 00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:21,680 for USGA conformance. And that's generally a good spec 1017 00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:24,880 for everybody with a long putter but it. 1018 00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,800 But maybe if you have your kind of eyes in different position or 1019 00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:33,440 you're, you're crouched over a little bit less with a ball kind 1020 00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:37,120 of outside your eye line, maybe we would go slightly flatter 1021 00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:39,520 than that. But that's it's, it's generally, 1022 00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:43,160 I think sticking to as close as you can to that 10° USGA limit 1023 00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,280 is a, is a good spec. So you can, you can kind of have 1024 00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:48,640 where you're applying force in the center of gravity of the 1025 00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:52,280 putter little closer in line and that's going to reduce your, 1026 00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:56,560 we'll call it your torque, your torque applying in the lie angle 1027 00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:58,360 direction to keep the putter upright. 1028 00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:03,120 If you have that the the center of gravity and where you're 1029 00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:07,400 applying force closer together, it will feel more like a 1030 00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:09,200 pendulum or more stable, so to speak. 1031 00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,000 Got it, Got it. So we talked about the downsides 1032 00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,840 of arm lock being leg putting. What downsides of of a long 1033 00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:17,960 putter do you see? Yeah, long putter. 1034 00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:22,000 I I think it has a bad rap for lag putting, but I don't know if 1035 00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,960 the stats bear that out that that might be kind of like a 1036 00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:30,680 false assessment, You know, might again, just be players 1037 00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:35,200 just you just need to practice it more and, and and learn that 1038 00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:39,360 skill of lag putting. You're applying all in plane 1039 00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,560 torque, which is again, the main mover that can controls the 1040 00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:45,040 speed or primarily in plane torque. 1041 00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:49,960 You're not taking that away. You're actually maximizing it or 1042 00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:52,480 turning the dial up on the in plane torque when you use the 1043 00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:54,960 long putter. So a little bit less on that. 1044 00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,040 You know, I think windy, I think it when it comes to long putter, 1045 00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:02,200 you know, I think breezy conditions, windy conditions can 1046 00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:05,120 be 1 area where using a long putter can be tough. 1047 00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:07,920 Like if you play most your golf in very windy, breezy 1048 00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:11,080 conditions, you got you got the fact that you're standing taller 1049 00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:14,600 is a factor blowing you the human over. 1050 00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:19,320 And then you have a surface area for the air to blow on a the 1051 00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,880 putter if it's a mallet style and be the shaft like the wind 1052 00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,800 blows on the shaft. So I think putting in the wind 1053 00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:29,240 is probably the main detriment of of the lung putter. 1054 00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:32,040 Got it, got it. Yeah, I personally, I like 1055 00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,760 anecdotally like leg putting, hasn't I? 1056 00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:39,040 It's still a skill to to work on and improve, but it seems just 1057 00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:40,720 as difficult with the long putter as it did. 1058 00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:43,840 I don't know. That's that's what I got. 1059 00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:49,520 OK, So we, we've covered a lot here with with long putters. 1060 00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:54,120 I guess what's kind of your, any specific getting started with it 1061 00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:57,400 that you said, obviously you said to kind of don't rest, rest 1062 00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:59,840 any weight on it because that could really kind of disrupt you 1063 00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:01,520 getting started. Any other kind of tips that 1064 00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:03,720 you've helped people with as they're as they're trying to 1065 00:53:03,720 --> 00:53:06,040 learn it or get started? Yeah, I think it's, I think it's 1066 00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:08,880 just explore how you want to power it. 1067 00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:12,200 So again, so it's so it's OK. How much once you're going to 1068 00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:14,520 move the lead elbow out, how much you going to bend over? 1069 00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:18,560 Start with maybe a traditional style grip with the trail hand. 1070 00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:23,880 Keep it dynamic, keep it moving and and play around with how 1071 00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:26,040 light you're going to. You're going to hold the putter 1072 00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,520 and go super duper. However light you think you're 1073 00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:31,120 going to hold it with the trail hand, go more extreme. 1074 00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:35,000 Go so light you're just barely supporting the putter and that 1075 00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:39,600 will force you to power it through the kind of ABS, side 1076 00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:43,800 bending ABS and side bending or shoulder movement or rocking 1077 00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:46,000 movement. And that's where I would start. 1078 00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:49,080 I would I would start with those factors super light trail hand 1079 00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:52,360 grip and that will force you to move the putter through the 1080 00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:56,480 rocking motion, side bending and and and abdominals. 1081 00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:58,680 Yep. I think one of the things that I 1082 00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:03,480 found is for me personally, I've got that Lucas Glover, Adam 1083 00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:07,200 Scott approach to it that if I forget to like engage my 1084 00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:10,600 shoulders or like like if I don't do a practice stroke and 1085 00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:13,560 like intentionally think like, OK, use, use your body, use your 1086 00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:17,560 body that like typically don't have as good of a stroke. 1087 00:54:17,720 --> 00:54:20,440 If I just get up there and just kind of use my use my arms and 1088 00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:22,200 just kind of hit it. So I think there you still have 1089 00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:25,560 to constantly think about it and like practice this this stuff as 1090 00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:28,240 you as you're working on it. Courtney, I agree, man. 1091 00:54:28,240 --> 00:54:31,160 I think if you're if you're, if you're, if you're going to the 1092 00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:33,240 long putter for in most of your golf curve, you've been 1093 00:54:33,240 --> 00:54:35,240 traditional. It's a totally different 1094 00:54:35,240 --> 00:54:37,880 powering mechanism which can be super beneficial. 1095 00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:40,040 It could be, it could be the benefit of going to the long 1096 00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:41,800 putter. But yeah, you kind of got to, 1097 00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:44,560 you got to think about it. And when you keep practicing 1098 00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:47,920 your putting, always play around with that like, OK, how am I 1099 00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,000 powering this? I think a big thing is get the 1100 00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:52,960 tension out, get the tension out of your neck and your shoulders 1101 00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:56,800 right. So get your setup dialed in and 1102 00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:58,960 try to get as much tension out of there so you can have that 1103 00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:03,200 rhythm and that flow. Super duper light trail hand 1104 00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:04,880 grip. Play around with it. 1105 00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,640 Play around with that. If you go to claw style, you 1106 00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:10,280 again, can, can, can play. Maybe you can have a lot of 1107 00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:13,600 squeeze to support the the weight of the putter and then be 1108 00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:16,160 a little lighter pressure with your elbows and your shoulders. 1109 00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:20,400 I just think in both arm lock and long, you really want to 1110 00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:23,160 explore how you're powering the putter and tension levels and 1111 00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:25,280 different, different joints. That's what kind of when I look 1112 00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:29,920 at Bryson, he's obviously got maximum tension level lockout of 1113 00:55:30,720 --> 00:55:34,000 of end range motion and his in certain joints. 1114 00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:36,880 I don't think that's for everybody because he has, he 1115 00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:40,520 spent so much time practicing his, you know, his putter length 1116 00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:42,320 and his tempo. He does all that stuff to kind 1117 00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:44,800 of control the pace of the putt where other golfers. 1118 00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:47,440 I think it would, would, might be better off having high 1119 00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:50,320 tension in some areas, but super low tension to others. 1120 00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:52,920 And that's where I would start with the with the long putter 1121 00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:54,960 for a lot of folks. The one thing I think that 1122 00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:59,120 people should realize about this is that if you expect to buy one 1123 00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:03,040 and then use it this weekend and putt better, it's probably like 1124 00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:06,640 it's not going to happen. So don't, don't, don't expect 1125 00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:08,520 that. Like for me personally, I, I 1126 00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:12,920 made the transition in during the offseason, so I just like 1127 00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:15,720 putting inside on a mat and wasn't really playing golf 1128 00:56:15,720 --> 00:56:20,880 anyways, So it was, it was fine. So I, I gave myself like, I 1129 00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:23,000 think 6 or 8 weeks where I was just kind of inside, just 1130 00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:25,120 dinking around a little bit every every week. 1131 00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:28,920 What kind of expectations would you set for people if they're 1132 00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:32,280 going to like buy one and they want to start using it in like, 1133 00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:36,120 how long should that be? The the long putter is very fun 1134 00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:38,240 to practice. I think it's one of the funnest 1135 00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:41,400 butters to go out there in the putting green if you've never 1136 00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:46,240 done it and practice because you can put for hours and not be not 1137 00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:49,840 you can, you can do a little, you know, block practice on a 1138 00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:53,640 chalk line or or whatever and not get tired, but your back is 1139 00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:56,360 not going to start hurting. So that's super fun. 1140 00:56:56,400 --> 00:57:00,200 But yeah, no, I think to kind of get the speed down, like how 1141 00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:02,000 you're powering it and get the pace. 1142 00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:06,880 I think a golfer Cordy could go out and do really good inside 10 1143 00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,040 feet with the long putter on the first couple rounds. 1144 00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:13,000 But it's probably going to be that skill of powering the putt, 1145 00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:17,560 solving for your for your putter head velocity that's going to 1146 00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:19,680 control your pace. Give yourself a little bit of 1147 00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:22,200 patience with that. But I think you're learning 1148 00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:23,840 curve. Like if you, if you bow and 1149 00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:25,640 you're like, dude, I'm going to, I'm going to go do it. 1150 00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:29,640 And you go to the putting green for 20 minutes every day on the 1151 00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:31,920 every day on your way home from work and do some nice lag 1152 00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:33,360 putting along with some short putting. 1153 00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:37,440 I think you could get good and two to four weeks I think you 1154 00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:40,400 know, if you kind of already have green reading and that's 1155 00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:43,200 skilled down. Yeah, I, I do say it's, it's 1156 00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:45,960 super fun to learn a new skill if, if you enjoy that kind of 1157 00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:47,680 thing. So like, it is a pretty 1158 00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:50,640 enjoyable new skill to learn, especially one where there's so 1159 00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:53,040 many options of like how you can do it. 1160 00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:56,240 So if you don't like that kind of stuff, maybe don't dive into 1161 00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:57,680 it. If you love like just like 1162 00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:01,600 experimenting and trying stuff. And I, I, it's, it's a blast. 1163 00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:05,040 It is not easy though, like the long putter is not an easy 1164 00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:07,400 skill. It's a, it's a different 1165 00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:10,520 instrument and it's so foreign compared to like all the other 1166 00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:12,120 clubs in your bag. You know what I mean? 1167 00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:15,760 Like like your putters, your putters on a transition from 1168 00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,480 your, from your irons and wedges, from a weight and 1169 00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:21,720 inertia standpoint, all that. And a long putter is like a 1170 00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:24,080 totally different animal. It's like a different sport and 1171 00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:27,160 most you know what I mean? But but that can also be a 1172 00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:29,720 benefit, right? You, you can have a totally 1173 00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:33,520 different technique and if you're already good at green 1174 00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:35,960 reading, so you've got the components of good putting or 1175 00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:40,240 green reading slash targeting strategy, then you have can you 1176 00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:43,000 control your start line? Then you have, can you control 1177 00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:47,200 your pace if you're already really good at green reading and 1178 00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:50,000 maybe the long putter or a different putter technique can 1179 00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:52,120 help you with these other two ingredients, which are the other 1180 00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:56,040 2/3 of putting that could, you know, that could unlock a, a 1181 00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:57,560 nice improvement in someone's golf game. 1182 00:58:57,800 --> 00:58:59,480 Yeah. And and I think that's part of 1183 00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:01,840 the fun of it is it's a new, it's totally different. 1184 00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:03,760 Maybe if putting has pissed you off over the years and you're 1185 00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,040 tired and you don't want to practice and you're just done, 1186 00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:08,360 do this. I agree, I agree it's. 1187 00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:10,440 Fine, All right, Marty, I want to end. 1188 00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:12,240 I want to go. I want to put myself through 1189 00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:15,120 this app. We we got let's all right, man. 1190 00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:18,000 I want to know my my length. The long putter. 1191 00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:21,000 Long putter. Yeah, let's do that. 1192 00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:23,200 I'm in the crouched camp at this point. 1193 00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:26,800 I do that totally bent over. I'm 6 feet tall. 1194 00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:28,160 Let's see here. OK, look at. 1195 00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:30,480 This Yeah, we got to get your elbow to floor if you can 1196 00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:32,160 measure it. If you got a driver. 1197 00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:34,800 Oh, look at this Cordy's come with a tape measure. 1198 00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:36,760 Yeah, OK. So standing up like this. 1199 00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:44,680 Yep, Yep. 51. Sound right, 51 Yeah, yeah, 1200 00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:46,120 let's do it. And that's a lot. 1201 00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:51,080 All right, 51 And how do you like you, you're saying you line 1202 00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:53,560 it more at the target? Yeah, because I'm going like. 1203 00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:57,680 Lucas Glover style. Yeah, I'm going like this. 1204 00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,200 Okay, totally. Let's see dude, 48 and 1/4. 1205 01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:03,040 Very specific. I like it. 1206 01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:06,400 Yeah, 48 and a quarter, so a little bit longer. 1207 01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:09,920 So I think that's cuz, yeah, maybe we'll double check that 1208 01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:13,160 elbow measurement, but not elbow, not elbow to floor. 1209 01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:16,760 Okay, I'm standing here. You might have really short 1210 01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:20,160 humorous bone. Wait, do I OK? 1211 01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:23,320 How? I would say maybe, yeah, go up 1212 01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:25,840 against you could do it against the wall and mark it against 1213 01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:28,160 your banner and then measure, measure the banner. 1214 01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:29,320 You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1215 01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:30,080 OK. Yeah. 1216 01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:32,200 Like that just. Want to stand here comfortably? 1217 01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:34,080 Yeah, stand right there. OK. 1218 01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:36,600 And then see it's right about the L in Philly. 1219 01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:37,960 Yeah. Yep. 1220 01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:40,160 All right, then let's measure that. 1221 01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:43,960 We're doing all kinds of stuff. Here it's got it's about even 1222 01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:45,600 with the L if I see that right. OK. 1223 01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:48,640 So that's about 48. So that's OK, 48. 1224 01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:50,480 All right, let's go back. Let's go back. 1225 01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:52,120 Well, here we're doing some testing. 1226 01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:54,920 How important is this? Measurement, let's go back to 1227 01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:57,320 48. So this will be, this should get 1228 01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:01,480 us maybe closer to 46. Yeah, 46 3/4. 1229 01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:04,880 That seems perfect, man. Like our long putter at retail 1230 01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:07,000 is going to be 47 by default. Got it. 1231 01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:09,280 Yeah. So that elbow measurement is is 1232 01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:10,600 huge. Yeah, that's big. 1233 01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:14,360 That's like controlling your lie angle with the wrist of floor it 1234 01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:17,280 from a color code standpoint. OK, yeah, that's good right 1235 01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:19,760 there. 46. So make sure the measurement is 1236 01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:23,360 correct on the elbow. Yeah, that's what we learned 1237 01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:27,840 today. Yeah, cool, Marty, we covered a 1238 01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:30,160 lot of ground. Let's anything else on before we 1239 01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:32,320 wrap on Long. Any other parting? 1240 01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:35,600 No, man, I think long, yeah, no long. 1241 01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:37,840 Long's fun to try. I think you're going to see more 1242 01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:40,560 and more of the younger generation, younger generation 1243 01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:42,400 kind of do it. Yeah, what? 1244 01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:46,320 Listen five year prediction more same long of same on along 1245 01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:48,680 putters more or less than of right now. 1246 01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:52,200 I'm going more, I'm going more again. 1247 01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:55,120 I would I would say probably not a doubling, but wouldn't be 1248 01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:59,160 surprised if maybe 50% more in the reason why I say that Cordy 1249 01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:02,160 is, you know, younger generation doing it. 1250 01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:04,920 You know, the auction is the world and the the sea woos of 1251 01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:09,280 the world doing really good with the long younger generation 1252 01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:13,680 doing it, less stigma and it's just another tool in the 1253 01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:15,880 toolbox. I think young kids might play 1254 01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:18,160 around, play around with and try it perfect. 1255 01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:20,000 All right. Thanks, man. 1256 01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:22,480 We can wrap there on our fun chat.