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You are listening to the gulf Science Lab podcast.
My name is Corey Walker, and I'm on a mission to figure out how
to improve the way that we learn and get better at golf.
I've been able to travel all over the world, talking to the
leaders, in the industry from instructors, to researchers to
golfers. Themselves learning how they're
getting better at golf and what that means for you.
Hey everybody, welcome back to the podcast.
So, happy to be here with you. Lots of good stuff here, going
around in golf science lab world.
We have some really cool projects going on behind the
scenes you might have seen. This thing called practice
Secrets has been like a three-year Journey.
It's coming soon. Just keep your eyes peeled.
I'm sure. You'll you'll hear about that.
They have someone new on the team.
So we've been making Go through quite a bit more video from
trips from this past year. So there's just a ton of good
traction that's going on. I'm so excited to be able to
help you all more. Hopefully, on this journey to
better performance and this journey to always be growing.
Today, we are talking with Derick Ingram, great guy coach
up in Canada, and a fascinating conversation, because Canada has
more players than ever on the PGA tour right now.
And he's been involved with the Team for a really long time.
And so I wanted to chat about what are some of the things that
he thinks had the biggest impact on that like why are there more
players than ever at this point? So, that is what this
conversation is about. I am so excited, so many good
things going on right now. Have a baby coming here in the
next week or so. So if there's a radio silence,
that's, uh, that's that's where I'm at.
Hopefully, the podcast will continue to might, just take a
week off for that, but we will carry on.
I'm excited that you're listening.
I'm excited. You're Didn't you care about
this mission of all science lab do is be growing to looking
outside the box to find, what's actually working to develop
great golfers. Thank you, Derrick, for taking
the time to down at this. Let's get into it.
My name is Derrick Ingram on the head coach for a national
amateur team, and young pro Squad and Canada on the men's
side. Also, coach Cory Connors
Mackenzie use on the PGA tour and huge hockey fan.
Yeah. I've been very fortunate to be
involved with sport Canada and golf Canada for 15 plus years.
Now, at one time as your junior team coach and then as our head
coach for a women's side and now back on as head coach firm
inside. And so, you know, I travel
extensively around the world really trying to lead and Mentor
our best young amateur and professional players in
conjunction with a lot of, you know, important groups in Canada
provincial, golf association's, you know, college coaches in the
US. To our players might be, you
know, playing college at, and obviously, the PTA of Kennedy's
in charge of Education, in Canada.
So, I travel extensively. I also, I'm on the PGA tour a
little bit with Corian Mac, really just trying to be the
best coach and leader, and Mentor that I can to help our
players have international results and move up the ladder.
So here's our goal today is you guys have more players than ever
on the PGA tour right now. Now, and our goal is to kind of
dig into the program. The system, the process is the
coaching the training, like everything that you guys do to
develop players and hopefully get some really cool insights
and you know, tidbits that people can go out and Implement
and utilize themselves. So I mean take us through, you
know, a couple players. I know you worked with Corey a
lot like take us through the story of one of your players of
like what It mean to go through the the, you know, the team
Canada program? Well, I would say, you know,
Corey's a really, he's a prime example, entered our junior team
became one of the top and best juniors in Canada.
Actually, one of the best juniors in the world, went to
Kent State struggled, originally with that college transition for
a year or two. And then, you know, as part of
our amateur team and working with, you know, at Kent State,
he became one of the top amateur players in the world would take
his game anywhere in the world literally and and play in the
biggest events in the world that have either win or have top five
or 10 or 15 finishes. So and then we help Cory with
that transition from amateur golf high-level amateur golf to
professional golf. And and that really involved a
year in the PGA tour, Canada, a year and the PGA Tour Latin
America here in the web.com tour.
And then obviously, his rookie year was not was last year.
PGA Tour, and then this unbelievable season this year,
where he happened to be in the top 30 at the tour championships
in a PGA Tour winner and that just really nice Ascension up
the world, professional rankings and all the time.
Cory's had that same structure, a strength and conditioning
coach a physiotherapist, our sport psychologist in myself is
as Coke. You know, there really is
Courtney, no skipping steps or jumping jumping, you can't
bypass development. I mean, the odd case you get a
player like a Rory, McIlroy Tiger Woods and I'll probably
throw them. I'm at wolf and a Victor,
hobbling in and there where they've you know, they've jumped
from college golf to the PGA Tour but their skill level was
so high. That you know, it wasn't like
they skip steps. They're just their skill level
grew over time, to be the in Open just unreal and college and
have the same high abilities or skill.
Level would be into PJ during for his case, it was a very good
Junior player. But short, you know, as he
matured and really fell in love with working out and taking care
of his body. He started to develop some more
speed, you know, and from a mental game standpoint, you
know, Cory was a winner in junior golf and I need
developed, then he struggled in college.
Little bit, and I think that was good for him because he had to
break through that ceiling and and learn how to win in college
and win the big amateur events and have success as an amateur
player. And, you know, Corey got a lot
of kicks in the but before he got into the top you know, 30 in
the world. I mean he was in the final group
in the Canadian amateur, I think four years in a row, three years
in a row and never want it. And those were those are tough
years, you know? Because that's the one term he
really, really wanted to win. But, you know, we use some of
those experiences of failing and not, you know, and maybe He just
not getting the result. We wanted to springboard.
Success at the US amateur and he had, you know, very good results
of the US amateur quarter-finalists.
Why nearness a finalist the next year, which got him into
Augusta. And then even on the pro level,
I mean Corey never really want to term.
It does a professional played, you know, in Canada after being
you know one of the top amateur players in the world for many
years you know really struggled as a pro his first year and then
just found his footing and PGA Tour Latin America.
Never one had a good season in the web.com tour.
He's so consistent and then got his PGA Tour card and maybe a
little early because we didn't win in the web.com tour didn't
win as a pro but, you know, got more comfortable on the PGA tour
and and this and they wanted to our schools.
I guess we can call that one pro win.
But then this year, got more comfortable with the best
players in the world. And then obviously one in San
Antonio. And, and now is looking for four
more. So, you worked with the guys,
the Ford they make it, right? Like, that's a big chunk of your
time and you've seen, you know, the success and those that don't
succeed. You've seen both, that's just
naturally. Parts of, you know what happens?
Let's maybe talk a bit about some of maybe the habits or
traits that you see in a guy like Cory in these guys that
have continued to grow, what kind of stands out to you and
you look at the sample size of all these guys that you've
worked with as some of the traits of those that have
succeeded and continued to grow. You know, I look at Cory or
Mackenzie versus some players that maybe haven't made it yet.
I would say the number one thing that stands out is their habits
and routines and their daily life, you know, and I know you
guys may want to sexier answer in terms of, so we got the shots
laid down on the way down a little bit better.
We just happen to Rotate jump through impact a little bit
better and that made all the you know, the biggest difference in
the world. And yeah, we work hard on, you
know, their technique on and we work hard in the short game
they're putting but quite frankly, according to the number
one reason I would say those guys are where they are is they
just have better habits and routines than other players.
I'll give you a simple example if I call Corey Potter's at 901
in the evening to talk about his round, I won't get an answer or
text message back There's just it doesn't matter what day of
the week at 901, he'll be in bed sleeping.
And, you know, sometimes it's earlier.
So, you know, his sleep habits are like an Olympic Athlete,
their extraordinary, you know, his workout routine like this.
It's layering good day after good day after good on.
Good week, good week on good month, on good week over the
core good month. After the honestly, three, four,
five, six, seven, eight years, You know, doing very similar
things that we know are working. It doesn't mean we don't put a
bullet in some, some drills Amina.
I'll give you a small example, you know, Cory loves and is
putting drills. You know, he loves to do the
stuff that makes them comfortable.
So he, you know, he'll spend for half an hour, the chalk line
right to left left to right center.
You know, just fine tuning that start line and he'll say, he'll
spend Hill spent a lot of time and it is very comfortable at
it. And, you know, I'll be like, you
know, Cory we're not going to get one pot today on the course
with a chalk line. So let's get off this for a
little bit. And yeah, we have to do our
maintenance practice and I think maintenance practices, you know,
for start line and you know face control and speed controls
really important, but we also have to make the game our
practice very similar to what we're going to have on the golf
course. And so you know, I tried to
cause you know, cause a little way more to be way more
uncomfortable in this practice and do a little bit of that
where you can go home and touch home base for 5 minutes or so.
It's what I want to. I want the challenge and I want
to make it really hard. I want to piss you off and
frustrate you and your practice. So that when we get out there
and tournaments, we have those same situations.
I'm going to deal with a lot better.
Let's talk about some of the, you know, habits.
You're trying to get the the folks on your young pro Squad,
you know, that they're not quite There yet.
You know what are some of the things.
The key things that you're working on with them to try to
get them to level up? Or big and stats and analyzing
their game from their stats. We use we are team uses
shot-by-shot from Peter Senators.
There's other great programs out there.
And you know, it's highly individual to the player Cordy.
Some guys need to drive the ball better.
Either guys need to iron it better and and other guys, you
know, need to improve their putting your short game.
So it's highly specific to the player, but I think it's really
important to drive the ball in play.
That's really key. So, I think I'll use Taylor
Taylor pendrick. That's a really nice example.
Taylor is in the top five and the Order of Merit in the PGA
tour Canada, he's got a ball speed in the 180 to 185 Zone,
you know. Just a standard stock shot is is
182 or 183. And so with Taylor we have to
get, you know we have to work on a second serve.
So it might be a 3-wood off the tee or possibly two or three
iron. So, if it's a narrow course or
the rough super long while we might drive, And wedge it on the
green. But we also want to get balls in
play, we and we cannot afford to make, you know, that penalty
Strokes. So in Taylor situation, we work
a lot on t-ball and obviously we work a lot on Wedge game.
The courses on the web.com tour, kft tour and even the PGA tour
Canada. They're short.
And there's a significant amount of wedge plan.
So I'm always either using a track, man, flight scope,
combine, you know, or forsake going down and or putting cones
on the Range and, you know, at 42. 110 yards or sometimes five
yard increments and have the try and play a game, I call getting
it wrong to get it right. Where they're trying to hit.
If it's if it's 80 yard to try to get 179 the next 181 and then
try and fly the number 80, then we move on to the next Target.
So there's a small example of, you know, some of the stuff will
grind away on their wedge player or other people.
So obviously not on PGA Tour. So what do you all use for stats
tracking and what do you have found best for for looking at?
That data. Yeah, we shot by shot website.
Shot-by-shot.com, Peter Sanders is is a developer that there's a
Strokes gained component to that, you know, there's other
excellent stack guys like Lou and and certainly Mark Brody
those guys are unreal, but we've just been in the habit of using
of using shot by shot. And and Peter Sanders has been a
great resource for our players and me as a coach because he
also works with PGA Tour. Layers.
And, and so we're, obviously, we're aware of.
We're trying to get better at being themselves.
It's really key to be the best version of yourself, but then
we're also in, you know, looking down the road and what's what
kind of skills and habits are going to, what kind of game are
we to need to be successful on the PGA tour?
What what's that? Do you find yourself looking at
the most four players? Is there?
Any anyone that stands out to? You is one that you always find
yourself checking and talking to guys about Yeah, there's two
that stand out. Mistakes off the tee.
So, penalties straight sideways chip outs, you know, that's
number one because it's highly unlikely.
A player can be a great player. If he's making mistakes off the
tee, you can be short and still end because every player in the
PGA Tour averages under par from the Fairway.
So if they put in the Fairway, every they're good, they're
really good. All 200 Guys, average is under
par from the Fairway, so obviously being long ski, but if
you're long and making mistakes off the tee, it's tough to
score. And the second thing I look at
is is putts inside of 10 feet. Specifically really, really that
3 to 10 feet. Because so few people meant
inside a three feet, it's not really a an area that you're
going to gain a ton of strokes but from You know, from 4 feet
to 10 feet, you know, Peter would say to me, Derek the
difference between a good Putter and a bad putter is somebody
between 0 and 10 feet. And then the difference between
guys who win on tour is the guys from 11 feet to 20 feet.
They make the most you classify as a birdie putt, or, you know,
those makeable birdie, putts that week, but you can't be a
good putter. If you're bad inside of 10 feet,
you can be you can, but you can be.
If you're solid inside of 10 feet, you could be a good
putter, but the guys who win generally are The best ball
Strikers who happen to pot. Well, from ten to twenty five or
ten to twenty P. So if you're looking at my data
and saw that I struggled in those two areas, what would be
your go-to s for for helping me improve those, those two data
points and he go to drills or concepts or anything that you
explain on a regular basis? Yeah.
First we take a look at your your, you know, if it's if it's
mistakes off the tee, you take a look at your Technique and make
sure that, you know, makes You're moving the ball.
If you're, if you're a guy who moves it one way or the other
way, consistently we make sure your ball flight is repeatable
and you know, I love, I mean, a simple drill.
I like if a guy I'll put an alignment stick on the target,
line up in front of the, you know, in front of the t-ball,
maybe 15 feet and I'll have them if they're working cats will
have them. Start it laughed and and just
work a cut to the Target liner or the opposite with a draw.
It may be a situation there being too aggressive off the
team. It might Mm or three Woods or
two irons off the are hybrids, off the tee.
And so there could be something in there technique that really
stands out. It could be there being too
aggressive in some cases maybe they're not being aggressive
enough and taking advantage of other of their their distance on
the t-bar. On the puting.
I first we're going to make sure they've got the correct phase
control. So some start line maintenance
drills with Gates is, you know, it's probably really important
because, honestly, That's that's one of the biggest things inside
of 10 feet. You know, it's start line and
then then green reading and we teach all our guys AimPoint some
use it. Some just use the principles to
be a better green reader and then obviously obviously speed
control. So what am I?
What do I, what am I cut? My favorite drills there, I'll
have them, hit putts from three, four, and five feet in a
north-south, East-West. Yeah, so there's 12 pots there.
Got to make 12 12 out of 12 and the greens are good.
If the greens are brutal, maybe eleven out of twelve simple.
Drill inside of five feet, I do another drill 10:51 or we take
them around the green, I'm with them, I'll pick the pot so it's
never the same break, it's never the same pot off, the never the
same length. So they're always having the
practice reading the green, you know and then trying to make it
pop between 9 and 11 feet. I need to point For make and you
get 20 points for a two-putt, no leaving it short and so what's
good there? You know, if you can get nine to
11 feet, if you can make if you can get 10 points with 10 putts,
it's good. Probably really good.
You know guys like Mark Brody who you know who have like just
opened up the can on on stats and Made us aware of where PGA
Tour players are gaining the most amount.
And, you know, you know, it has been great for a coach like
myself and our players along player, I'm not overly concerned
some about Fairways Because unless they're playing the PGA
Tour really rough this significant in some in some
courses. You know, it's t.i. use the word
tea balls in play, you know? And and so if you get the if
they're super long and then get the ball in play, they're going
to have shorter irons in and We wedges and sandwiches from the
rapid still scorable and then when they do hit the Fairway,
it's almost like cheating but for shorter players or you know
medium-length players. You know, they don't have the
speed to get it down. Possibly to pitching wedge, nine
are in sand wedge. And so now let's say they're
getting, you know, 6-iron 7 there, possibly 5-iron from the
Rockets tough to score from there.
So they really have to get Fairway.
So it really got to get the ball in play because they can if they
have the ball into short stuff, they can be extremely good with
a 65 7-iron. Out of the Fairway and compared
to a guy who's hitting, maybe 9-iron From the Rough and Peter
had the school stat a few years ago.
He shared with me that, you know, you can give up 50 yards
off the tee in terms of proximity to the hole on your
second shot from the Fairway, versus the rough.
It's not amazing. Like and I was like 50 yards,
Peter and yeah, that was a few years ago, but he'd worked it
out on tour. That.
Yeah. So a guy drives, a 50 yards
further in the rough. First, the person who's 50 yards
shorter, they're going to have the exact same roughly
proximity, to the whole on their, on their approach shot.
What about working on golf? Swing working on on technique if
there have been any is that you've seen as you've worked
with these guys, you know, and on the teams that you do, Yeah,
any kind of overarching, you know, I don't know, like we use
a lot of body track obviously, so you're using a lot of, you
know, kind of that feedback, or, you know, anything, stand out.
Well, now, I think we just have so much more information that we
used to have. Then we've been we used to
happen. So I'd love, I love Gathering
all that information. I'm a guy who loves to get him
on the body, track who, you know, wants to see their track
matter, their radar numbers or their, you know, their
foresight. I love using I use K vest 3 and
the amm obviously system is brilliant, it was great but you
know use K vast. What else do we use?
I mean it was a bunch of plethora stuff for putting but
you know I found that ground usage has really made a big
difference in some players. I'll use Corey as a quick
example of Cory's always had great hands.
He's a bit of a handle polar so he gets a little bit steep
sometimes in transition and They asked to stop and flip but he's
got great hands and great timing, hits it flush every
time. But you know, I noticed that
just from using the body track that he could shift into his
back leg. Early pressure into the back leg
or Trail, I guess I should say early but then the as arms got
to get, you know, it's like the three quarter position or even a
little bit further, he started to get loaded a fair amount on
his front leg early in that sometimes earlier in the
backswing. And so, then the downswing you
Have to shift back to the trail foot and when hitting and that
really caused a fair amount of, you know, rotation in the
hitting area and, you know, something shot some over hook,
some shots that started way too far, right?
And so, you know, with the body track.
That was one thing that we, you know, we tried to get that
pressure back so that you can get the pressure through and
simple thing like trying to get pressure back and pressure
through pressure back in the backswing and pressure through
in the in the downswing made a gigantic.
Techimpact on his ball hitting like just such a huge difference
and before you know I'd look at that swing in video and I had
some pretty good 3D stuff but I honestly didn't I didn't notice
it. So that's a pretty good example
there like he's so much better so much better ball Striker, and
so consistent and hits it so much further with less effort.
And that tool is really useful for us.
you know, one thing that really made a big difference in Canada
to it was was having heroes or having somebody that can do it
and you know, a long time ago, Mike, Weir me, one time we had
one or two, maybe three players in the PGA Tour and often we for
a lot of years, we had one but having having Heroes who could
they could look up to and say wow you know Mike We Are One the
Got the Masters in 2003. He was a former number three or
four player in the world. He's got eight PGA Tour wins,
maybe nine, you know, you know, creating Heroes and having guys
to look up to, that's, that's really important for our
program. Now guys go, hey I can do that
as well and and there's strength in numbers, you know, when you
have one or two players on the PGA tour, you're not going to
get many wins on the PGA tour. But when you have, you know,
six, seven, eight, nine. You know, we always have some
guys playing well so younger players.
Amateur players, Junior players and Cat are always looking at
the PGA Tour, the LPGA Tour in Brooks case and other players on
the LPGA Tour and going. Hey jeez, I can do that as well.
Let's say another thing that's been kind of cool that we've
been able to do is we've had players like Cory and Nick
Taylor and Adam had win. You know, Mackenzie use.
They've come back and they come to our series of training camps
and they train. And practice with the guys.
That's been really cool as well, because it Say ho.
Wow. I mean I can't believe how far
away I am this from this guy. I'll never beat him or they can
look and goatees, you know, I'm really not that far away you
know my game we got Stacks up reasonably well you know I can
do this as well given the right time and effort that's obviously
required. And and again, being able to
talk to those guys about what they do and how they, how they
work in their game. I think it's really been useful.
So I would say those are two really nice components for our
program. Hey, thank you so much to Derek
for taking the time to chat with us and go behind the scenes on
what he's seen work for the players in Canada and what some
of the biggest changes have been, you know, it's so many
other players are just doing really well making those drums
from tour to tour and succeeding at the highest level.
It's awesome to see. And it's great to hear about.
If you enjoyed this the unedited version of this episode will be
coming out to, you can listen to our whole conversation.
This is probably about Half half to a couple thirds of the
conversation. So there's more.
If you go behind the scenes, you like that kind of stuff, make
sure to subscribe in the podcast, apple cup podcast,
Spotify stay tuned for that, and so much more to come.
I appreciate you listening. Thank you for being a part of
this golf science lab Mission. You can follow me on Twitter at
Corey Walker at golf science lab.
This was edited mix and produced by just hit publish Productions.