1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,100 A sponsor for this episode is whoop. 2 00:00:05,100 --> 00:00:07,500 You haven't heard a whoop, it is a fitness tracker. 3 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:11,500 Provides personalized, daily, insight into recovery, strain 4 00:00:11,500 --> 00:00:15,500 and sleep in. This has provided some really 5 00:00:15,500 --> 00:00:18,400 cool actionable data. I've been using a personally, 6 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:20,600 there's a ton of PGA Tour players to using you. 7 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:25,000 Probably seen Justin Thomas for a macro and others wearing it 8 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,700 and here's kind of what I take away. 9 00:00:27,700 --> 00:00:29,400 The most is, is number one sleep. 10 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:33,000 And Hurry. 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Is there enough strain, is there 19 00:00:54,900 --> 00:00:57,900 not enough and look at all those different things in the Gulf 20 00:00:57,900 --> 00:00:59,900 context, I just the other day, really interesting. 21 00:01:00,300 --> 00:01:04,400 I found that playing nine holes, walking was the same amount of 22 00:01:04,408 --> 00:01:07,200 strain as playing 18, holes riding in a cart. 23 00:01:07,300 --> 00:01:08,500 There's so many good things from whoop. 24 00:01:08,500 --> 00:01:10,800 You should check it out. We got 15% off your group 25 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:18,200 membership code GSL. 15% off GSL head over to whoop.com and check 26 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,800 that out. Definitely recommend picking one 27 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,300 up. We're on a mission to help 28 00:01:24,300 --> 00:01:27,300 golfers from all over the world, achieve their goals by 29 00:01:27,300 --> 00:01:29,800 understanding what it actually takes to play their best. 30 00:01:29,900 --> 00:01:31,500 Golf. We're talking is leading 31 00:01:31,500 --> 00:01:36,700 instructors, researchers and players themselves to find what 32 00:01:36,700 --> 00:01:45,700 is actually working. All right, everybody, welcome 33 00:01:45,700 --> 00:01:48,600 back. We have another fun q, a round 34 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,400 table. We are with Adam Young. 35 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,200 John Sherman. We have yet to determine a name 36 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,600 for this Trio of conversation Roundtable. 37 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:59,800 But welcome back, guys. What's up? 38 00:02:00,300 --> 00:02:05,200 Again, not much today. We are tackling a question 39 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:11,700 around practice, which atom has I believe written a book on if 40 00:02:11,700 --> 00:02:13,400 I'm not mistaken? What's it called again? 41 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:15,300 Adam. I don't know. 42 00:02:15,500 --> 00:02:17,000 I think it's the practice blueprint. 43 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:18,800 Is that right? Yeah, something like that. 44 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:20,500 Well yeah. You have your own series on it. 45 00:02:20,500 --> 00:02:23,700 Yeah, we're practice. Practice God's out here. 46 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,000 That's guys. Just thought of golf Gods could 47 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,400 be take. That's already taken it for 48 00:02:29,900 --> 00:02:31,600 whatever it takes. Yeah, we can't do that. 49 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,900 Okay, so this is a, this is a simple question and one that I'm 50 00:02:35,900 --> 00:02:38,500 sure we all have gotten or talked about or thought about 51 00:02:38,500 --> 00:02:40,800 and in some point of view, but it's what are your thoughts on 52 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,600 the benefits of blockers? Random practice and I guess we 53 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,100 should start out by clarifying what block and random practice 54 00:02:47,100 --> 00:02:50,700 our, who wants to do that? I want, I want Adam to do it 55 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,200 even though he might not want to Adam you do this. 56 00:02:53,300 --> 00:02:55,500 There is between block and random practice. 57 00:02:55,500 --> 00:02:59,000 Okay, well, block practice is just doing the same thing over 58 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,900 and over and over. Again, like if you scrape and 59 00:03:01,900 --> 00:03:06,600 hit a 7-iron towards the same Target on the same lie, random 60 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,600 practice is much more. We say contextual in that, it 61 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:13,700 represents the game, there are varying levels of it so you 62 00:03:13,700 --> 00:03:18,200 could change clubs each time. So go from a 79 to a wedge to a 63 00:03:18,208 --> 00:03:20,500 driver just like you would in the real game. 64 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,800 You could change lies each time you could change. 65 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:28,100 I don't want to say shot shape, you could do that but I don't 66 00:03:28,100 --> 00:03:30,600 think that's a necessary thing. I think that Falls more Under 67 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:34,500 the Umbrella of variability practice but yeah just changing 68 00:03:34,500 --> 00:03:40,300 targets lies shot type you know wedging chipping. 69 00:03:40,300 --> 00:03:41,900 The anything that makes it more realistic. 70 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,100 Anything that makes it more. Contextual would be random 71 00:03:45,100 --> 00:03:48,500 practice and the research has shown. 72 00:03:48,500 --> 00:03:52,000 There's some studies that show that when a retention test is 73 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:56,100 done, meaning that a group of people do the practice in a 74 00:03:56,108 --> 00:03:59,600 block or random Manner and then they come back and are asked to 75 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,100 protect Perform at that skill and the retention test that 76 00:04:02,100 --> 00:04:05,800 random has performed better than Block in some of the studies 77 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:09,000 that have been done going back. I think probably since the 70s 78 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,700 if not if not before and so that's kind of where this 79 00:04:12,700 --> 00:04:15,600 conversation comes from. It's not a golf specific idea to 80 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,000 begin with. This was from you know, Academia 81 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,600 outside of golf just in, you know, motor skill different 82 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,300 skills. And then we're kind of bring 83 00:04:24,300 --> 00:04:26,200 that into golf over the years. And there have been a number of 84 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,900 Papers written on that. We've had some of the experts on 85 00:04:28,900 --> 00:04:32,100 in the past, like Like dr. Tinley Mark, guadagnino lie, 86 00:04:32,100 --> 00:04:34,900 Robert Bjork Etc. Some of these guys really kind 87 00:04:34,900 --> 00:04:39,300 of brought the study to Gulf, which is which is really nice to 88 00:04:39,300 --> 00:04:42,500 actually have them looking at our sport feel really lucky that 89 00:04:42,500 --> 00:04:45,500 they've done research on it and we're able to to learn so much 90 00:04:45,500 --> 00:04:47,200 from it. But there's, there's a little 91 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:49,700 context, little context for this conversation. 92 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,500 Yeah, you make me, you make an important point in terms of 93 00:04:52,500 --> 00:04:55,300 retention because I think we often get mixed up between 94 00:04:55,300 --> 00:04:58,400 performance and learning. So it's very easy to stand there 95 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,800 with a 7-iron beat them over. Over and over perform like a 96 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:03,900 God. And think that you've actually 97 00:05:03,900 --> 00:05:07,100 learned something yet, you people know they go on to the 98 00:05:07,100 --> 00:05:09,100 course and they hit it everywhere and they think, where 99 00:05:09,100 --> 00:05:11,400 did my game go? Even in my own game. 100 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,300 If I stand there with track, man beating seven eyes over and over 101 00:05:14,300 --> 00:05:18,500 my proximity to the Target, might be 10, 15 20 foot. 102 00:05:18,700 --> 00:05:21,300 Whereas I know if I actually produce that in a round of golf, 103 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,000 I would be number one on tour and that just doesn't happen 104 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,400 because I wouldn't be here speaking about on his podcast. 105 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,100 If that was the case, come on. Now you would still have Hang 106 00:05:30,100 --> 00:05:32,100 out my. Yeah, I'll I still like he's 107 00:05:32,100 --> 00:05:37,600 literally be playing a colonial right now at this moment, you 108 00:05:37,608 --> 00:05:40,800 know, when it comes to Preparing on that for a round of golf. 109 00:05:41,100 --> 00:05:44,500 If you want to look at, say your shot patterns, for example, and 110 00:05:44,500 --> 00:05:47,700 you want to see what shot patterns you have the you're 111 00:05:47,700 --> 00:05:50,900 going to take on the course, you know I set a little tweet out 112 00:05:50,900 --> 00:05:54,000 the other day saying are your shot patterns are same or 113 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,600 different when you're doing random versus block practice and 114 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,700 75 percent of people said they're different. 115 00:06:00,300 --> 00:06:03,200 So whether they whether they're better or whether they were, so 116 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,700 when you're doing random practice, they are different for 117 00:06:05,700 --> 00:06:08,900 the vast majority of people. So, why would you practice when 118 00:06:08,900 --> 00:06:11,900 you're preparing for a tournament and get a false sense 119 00:06:11,900 --> 00:06:14,700 of what your patterns are? You know, my pattern is much 120 00:06:14,700 --> 00:06:16,900 straighter, I miss fewer left shots. 121 00:06:16,900 --> 00:06:20,200 When I'm doing block, practice and I know from group coaching 122 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,600 as well, that I would watch the people in the group hit these 123 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,800 shots and it'll be hitting great. 124 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:27,100 And then I clap my hands and say. 125 00:06:27,100 --> 00:06:28,400 All right, everybody gather round. 126 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:29,900 We're gonna do a little game now. 127 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,300 And they would all stand in front of each other and hit one 128 00:06:33,300 --> 00:06:36,000 shot and then rotate. And so would be a very 129 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,300 pressurized game so much more context, much more random 130 00:06:39,300 --> 00:06:42,500 practice and they shot patterns would be completely different. 131 00:06:42,500 --> 00:06:44,800 You you go from someone hit the sweet spot every time. 132 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,500 They're all sudden shanking, every single one of them, let's 133 00:06:47,500 --> 00:06:49,000 get down to the nitty-gritty here. 134 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:54,900 And I think that, you know, Adam myself we could go on for four 135 00:06:55,100 --> 00:06:58,300 hours, speaking about the benefits of random practice or 136 00:06:58,300 --> 00:07:02,500 improving your practice and Pretty one-sided discussion. 137 00:07:02,500 --> 00:07:08,000 I think some of the arguments against it arise when folks turn 138 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,300 on the television or head out to a PGA Tour event that's in their 139 00:07:11,300 --> 00:07:15,600 area and they see, you know, a pro with something like a 140 00:07:15,608 --> 00:07:19,300 putting mirror or some kind of drill set up and they hit, you 141 00:07:19,300 --> 00:07:23,500 know, 204 Footers in a row, you know, and they make every one of 142 00:07:23,500 --> 00:07:27,600 them just over and over and over and they come home and they're 143 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,600 talking and they're like, yeah I just you know, I I just got to 144 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,300 do that to build confidence and hit these over and over and over 145 00:07:33,300 --> 00:07:36,000 again. And so you know, and also we 146 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,800 hear stories of people, you know, hitting trash cans full of 147 00:07:38,808 --> 00:07:41,500 golf balls to get really good. They're all the kind of these 148 00:07:41,500 --> 00:07:45,900 stories told through out, which anecdotally we would go like, 149 00:07:45,900 --> 00:07:48,700 while the pros do it. So, you know, why wouldn't I is 150 00:07:48,700 --> 00:07:51,300 that a good place to start kind of that that argument against 151 00:07:51,300 --> 00:07:53,000 Adam? Yeah, I mean, there's all the 152 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,300 obvious correlation versus causation argument, you know, 153 00:07:56,300 --> 00:07:59,900 just because Pros, all wear hats with sponsored logo. 154 00:08:00,100 --> 00:08:02,900 I had doesn't mean if you sponsor an amateur, they're 155 00:08:02,900 --> 00:08:04,700 going to get better. In fact, it might make them 156 00:08:04,700 --> 00:08:06,800 worse because now they're pressurized by the sponsor. 157 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,400 There's also the, what the pros do is that necessarily the best 158 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,200 for them, you know, if you're practicing 10 hours a day, you 159 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,500 can probably get away with a hell of a lot that someone who 160 00:08:16,500 --> 00:08:20,200 only has one hour week can't. Then there's all the scientific 161 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,000 studies which are flawed. They're not perfect, they only 162 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,900 show what they show their very specific, but they all do show 163 00:08:26,900 --> 00:08:29,600 that random practice, performs better when it comes to 164 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:31,600 retention. Tension tests, not necessarily 165 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,000 performance tests. And ultimately, we are after 166 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,700 learning where after retention, we have to transfer to. 167 00:08:37,700 --> 00:08:40,600 The course, we're not there to be range Pros, some people are 168 00:08:40,900 --> 00:08:43,400 so there's all these different routes that you could go down. 169 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:47,400 But in fact, I think there are studies now showing that when 170 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:51,600 prose or really high-level, golfers are given a random 171 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,700 practice protocol. Even the pros improve more than 172 00:08:54,700 --> 00:08:56,000 when they're practicing were blocked. 173 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,500 So even at the highest skill levels, it seems to hold true 174 00:08:59,500 --> 00:09:02,300 especially on Exact wedge tests, where, you know, you've got 175 00:09:02,700 --> 00:09:07,400 energy selection, you know, if you're hitting 60, 90, 70 yards, 176 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,900 and you haven't a very a lot. You have to select the right 177 00:09:09,900 --> 00:09:12,300 shot, which is a huge part of this. 178 00:09:12,700 --> 00:09:14,200 All right, I'll stop talking John. 179 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:19,400 Do you like jumping? I think a good place to frame it 180 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,000 as. Let's talk about the mistakes 181 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,300 that most golfers are making when they practice. 182 00:09:24,300 --> 00:09:27,000 And I think all of us here, agree from our own personal 183 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,900 experience, and watching other golfers, is that most players 184 00:09:30,900 --> 00:09:33,900 are not really engaged when they practice. 185 00:09:33,900 --> 00:09:37,500 I kind of view it as like these zombie range sessions and I did 186 00:09:37,500 --> 00:09:40,800 them for a very long time myself you know you show up you buy as 187 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,800 many balls as you're going to hit whether it's 50, 80, 100, 188 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,000 and you just kind of go through the motions you're hitting and 189 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:48,600 you're not really paying attention to much. 190 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,200 You're not paying attention to your target where the ball went, 191 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:55,500 what your stance was you know, posture all these things and the 192 00:09:55,500 --> 00:10:00,300 trap that most players fall into is that they feel like Okay, I 193 00:10:00,300 --> 00:10:03,600 spent that our at the range. I'm entitled to better golf now 194 00:10:03,900 --> 00:10:08,000 and it's just not that simple. So, in terms of where I fall on 195 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,500 this debate and I don't really know how big of a debating is in 196 00:10:11,500 --> 00:10:14,200 the ad General golf, well, maybe the nerdy golf world. 197 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:19,300 But so I'm all for engagement in practice and I think that most 198 00:10:19,300 --> 00:10:22,900 players get stuck with blocked practice because that's just 199 00:10:22,900 --> 00:10:26,700 what comes naturally to them. And it's harder for them to 200 00:10:26,700 --> 00:10:29,900 focus and be engaged in that verses. 201 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,100 If you introduce them to a random concept which they're 202 00:10:33,100 --> 00:10:36,800 probably not doing, there's a much better chance that they're 203 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:41,100 going to be engaged in that and also experience the pressure and 204 00:10:41,100 --> 00:10:44,400 whatever you go through on the golf course to hit that singular 205 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,500 shot. So I'm totally fine with doing 206 00:10:47,500 --> 00:10:49,200 both kinds of practice. I do. 207 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,800 I just think most golfers are overdosed on blocked and start 208 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:58,500 need to explore more of the random, but I definitely do both 209 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,500 and I try and stay engaged. Either, I just think, you know, 210 00:11:01,500 --> 00:11:05,400 introducing random can open up a nice new door for golfers to 211 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,000 make their time worth it because you know, you do like you said 212 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,600 Adam, you don't have unlimited time to beat balls all week like 213 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:13,100 a pro does. You might only have a couple of 214 00:11:13,100 --> 00:11:15,300 hours and you want to make it worth it and obviously transfer 215 00:11:15,300 --> 00:11:18,800 those skills to the golf course. So I think random practice could 216 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:23,100 address the main problem, that plagues a lot of normal players. 217 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,800 You know what, I think it comes down to John, is that as humans? 218 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,100 We naturally kind of go to what's most comfortable Or 219 00:11:30,100 --> 00:11:31,700 what's, you know, easiest for us. 220 00:11:31,700 --> 00:11:35,500 And doing a kind of, that kind of block practice where we do 221 00:11:35,500 --> 00:11:37,700 improve during that session, right? 222 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:39,700 We can hit our 7-iron a little bit better. 223 00:11:39,700 --> 00:11:42,000 By the end, we can hit our driver a little bit straighter, 224 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,300 maybe, and we see that, and we go towards that. 225 00:11:45,500 --> 00:11:48,800 The problem is that when we look at the research, like Adam 226 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:50,900 mentioned earlier, the performance versus learning 227 00:11:50,900 --> 00:11:53,100 that's from a guy named dr. Robert bureaucratic. 228 00:11:53,100 --> 00:11:56,800 California and talking about how actually, we learn when we make 229 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,900 mistakes. So it's this really 230 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,800 Uncomfortable place of his we don't want to make a mistake, 231 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:04,800 right? Like, and with him on the Range, 232 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:08,500 I don't want to look bad next to these people that I might know, 233 00:12:08,500 --> 00:12:11,000 potentially, right? And so I think a lot of this, 234 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,600 just good comes down to we haven't been educated on it. 235 00:12:13,900 --> 00:12:18,500 So we do what's most comfortable for us and it comes down to a 236 00:12:18,500 --> 00:12:21,300 lot of times with an education thing like and that's what I get 237 00:12:21,300 --> 00:12:24,300 so passionate about is that there's a lot of really smart 238 00:12:24,300 --> 00:12:27,400 people out there that have spent the time and done the research. 239 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,100 You know, like Adam you've you know, you've looked into All 240 00:12:30,100 --> 00:12:32,800 this, you've tested this out, you've put in so much work in 241 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,300 this and now it's just about spreading that message because 242 00:12:35,300 --> 00:12:38,500 people just they don't know and that's why they just follow 243 00:12:38,500 --> 00:12:41,900 along with the stereotype. Yeah, I mean just as I'm not 244 00:12:41,900 --> 00:12:45,300 anti technical, I'm not anti block either, there are certain 245 00:12:45,300 --> 00:12:47,700 things that I think it's valuable for. 246 00:12:47,900 --> 00:12:49,700 I still want to see more research on it. 247 00:12:49,700 --> 00:12:53,900 But you know, for me I'd say what is the main value in random 248 00:12:53,900 --> 00:12:56,900 practice? And for me, it's it's that act 249 00:12:56,900 --> 00:13:00,500 of forgetting, I think Mike Hebron is someone Talks about 250 00:13:00,500 --> 00:13:02,200 that. Maybe if I think about the 251 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,600 preparation skills that go in to see a chip shot, right? 252 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,500 If you stand in Hitler's, a Chip Shot, you've got to assess the 253 00:13:09,500 --> 00:13:11,800 lie, you know, you can't hit the same shot. 254 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,200 If that ball sitting down versus sitting out, you've got access 255 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,700 or select the shot type. You're going to have more shaft 256 00:13:17,700 --> 00:13:19,800 lean the shaft lean. What club you're going to use 257 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,700 your going to get the chip and run as high stopper little 258 00:13:22,700 --> 00:13:25,700 spinner you're gonna have the face open what are the green 259 00:13:25,700 --> 00:13:28,600 conditions as well? Every time you face a new shot, 260 00:13:28,900 --> 00:13:30,800 you'll basically have the Make a prediction. 261 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,400 So how hard is this green? What is this line going to take, 262 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,600 is going to curve left by how much, and then you have to go 263 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,200 through the act of doing a couple of practice swings, too, 264 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:43,100 kind of recall, the speed control all the energy needed 265 00:13:43,100 --> 00:13:45,900 for that swing and then you have to execute. 266 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,700 Now, if you're doing random practice, you have to go through 267 00:13:49,700 --> 00:13:54,500 that process every single time, but if you do block practice, 268 00:13:54,500 --> 00:13:55,400 you only have to go through that. 269 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:59,400 Once the next one is, just a, you don't have to assess the 270 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:00,900 line out. You don't have to make a 271 00:14:00,900 --> 00:14:05,100 prediction on the break because, you know it, you've seen it. 272 00:14:05,300 --> 00:14:07,400 So you're losing. Those predictive skills. 273 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,900 You're losing those preparation skills or your at least not 274 00:14:09,900 --> 00:14:12,500 practicing those preparation skills. 275 00:14:12,900 --> 00:14:16,900 So for me when it comes to tornament prayer, random is 276 00:14:16,900 --> 00:14:20,200 going to be a big part of that and let's face it like golf. 277 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:24,900 Technically is a random game other than like your tee shots. 278 00:14:25,300 --> 00:14:28,800 You are faced with a random situation every time, whether 279 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,400 it's the LIE, the Wind the elevation change. 280 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,700 You're not facing the same challenge. 281 00:14:34,700 --> 00:14:39,600 You are on a driving range mat, that has a perfectly flat lie 282 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,300 and you don't have to worry about chunking, the ball. 283 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:45,000 It's just not the same scenario not that you can't build skills 284 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,600 in that scenario. But when you really think about 285 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:51,100 golf, it's a random series of events that you have to react to 286 00:14:51,100 --> 00:14:53,400 and plan in the moment and execute. 287 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:57,000 Well, you said that Joe and the would build skills I think 288 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,500 that's that's probably a key with Block versus random is See, 289 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,200 I see blocked practice, as more of a building thing, you're 290 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,700 building something new potentially, you're creating a 291 00:15:07,700 --> 00:15:12,400 new motor program whereas random practice is more about accessing 292 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,100 what you already own. So you know if you want to make 293 00:15:15,100 --> 00:15:18,000 a golfer better if you want to make them achieve new potential, 294 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,300 if you want to take them from a 20 and the cap to the scratch, 295 00:15:20,300 --> 00:15:22,200 they might have to do a lot of block practice because they 296 00:15:22,208 --> 00:15:24,800 going to have to make mode changes are going to have to get 297 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,000 used to those things. But if you've got a 20 or let's 298 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,800 say, a 10 handicap will keeps going On the course and playing 299 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,700 like a 20 handicap. They're not accept accessing the 300 00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:37,100 skills, they already own. So let's help them with random 301 00:15:37,100 --> 00:15:40,700 practice to improve the access of the already own skills. 302 00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:45,500 One caveat to that is that it hasn't been proven yet, but 303 00:15:45,500 --> 00:15:47,300 blocked practice is better for building. 304 00:15:47,300 --> 00:15:52,600 Even so I intuitively believe it is, which goes with the blocked 305 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,300 block crowd, but it wouldn't surprise me if it came out and 306 00:15:55,300 --> 00:15:58,000 said, you know what, when creating a brand-new motor 307 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,800 program, random practices The for that as well. 308 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,200 Wouldn't surprise me? Would it be helpful if I gave 309 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:08,400 like a scenario of how I practice like short game and 310 00:16:08,500 --> 00:16:12,200 kind of give it overview of how I switch between blocked and 311 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,000 random. I think I wrote an article about 312 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,700 this, about a month and a half ago. 313 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,400 So, for a very long time, I struggled with distance control 314 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,600 on like, those those in between wedge shots, and I mean by, like 315 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,500 30 to 70 yards. So my first step was is like, I 316 00:16:26,500 --> 00:16:31,100 needed to learn a technique that I Could rely on for those 317 00:16:31,100 --> 00:16:35,000 distances, whether it's a 30, 40, 50, 60, or 70 yd wedge shot. 318 00:16:35,100 --> 00:16:38,900 I would hone those distances and have to repeat them until I 319 00:16:38,908 --> 00:16:41,600 could feel like. Okay, that's my 60-yard swing, 320 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,500 that's my 40-yard swing. And to be honest I got that 321 00:16:44,500 --> 00:16:47,300 template from Reading Dave, pelts, his short game Bible a 322 00:16:47,300 --> 00:16:49,100 long time ago and is clock system. 323 00:16:49,300 --> 00:16:52,900 So I spent a lot of time like hitting that 50 yard shot over 324 00:16:52,900 --> 00:16:54,700 and over again. That's 70 yard shot over and 325 00:16:54,700 --> 00:16:58,700 over again till I feel it. But then at the same time I 326 00:16:58,700 --> 00:17:01,800 would then at the end of Practice session test myself 327 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,500 saying, like, whether it's like a launch, I have a scotch track 328 00:17:05,500 --> 00:17:08,200 launch monitor at home. So like I would do the random 329 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:09,500 thing. It calls out a number and like, 330 00:17:09,500 --> 00:17:12,900 try and hit 63 yards, try and hit 42 yards, try and hit it. 72 331 00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:15,300 yards. So I'm going back and forth 332 00:17:15,300 --> 00:17:20,400 between repeating the distance and then testing myself. 333 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,000 And I felt like that helped solve one of the biggest 334 00:17:24,008 --> 00:17:28,300 problems in my game or I would say if you're out in the 335 00:17:28,300 --> 00:17:32,300 practice area on your Of course, even in your backyard giving 336 00:17:32,300 --> 00:17:35,600 myself all different types of lies and the rough. 337 00:17:35,700 --> 00:17:39,300 So changing that variable and trying to hit that shot over and 338 00:17:39,300 --> 00:17:41,500 over again or just throwing it down and see what happens. 339 00:17:41,500 --> 00:17:44,900 So like I think we're short game because those are distance 340 00:17:44,900 --> 00:17:48,500 control is such a huge thing and you really are changing things. 341 00:17:48,500 --> 00:17:50,900 All the time, you have to like recall, a distance and a 342 00:17:50,900 --> 00:17:55,600 trajectory going back and forth between the two has helped me. 343 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:59,800 Personally, I think that's, that's right, on point, I think. 344 00:17:59,900 --> 00:18:05,500 Interesting facet and all of this is like, Adam mentioned is 345 00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:09,100 time spent. I think a lot of times I think 346 00:18:09,100 --> 00:18:11,900 about self-discovery. Some of the words that come to 347 00:18:11,900 --> 00:18:13,900 mind and out of your familiar though, you know, like a 348 00:18:13,908 --> 00:18:18,000 constraints based approach ecological Dynamics Theory. 349 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,800 There's some of the stuff we've done podcast on this, in the 350 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,000 past but like like what you're talking about there? 351 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,600 John? I wonder, you know, my questions 352 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,700 was if you had unlimited time, would you best retain us, if you 353 00:18:29,900 --> 00:18:34,100 Self discovered this on your own where you went out and created a 354 00:18:34,100 --> 00:18:37,100 game, where you had to go figure it out, how you are going to do 355 00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:41,000 this, and if that would be more beneficial in the long run, 356 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,300 although it take longer. Am I making any sense? 357 00:18:43,300 --> 00:18:46,800 Adam, is that I do. I mean, I'm interpreting it in 358 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,300 my own way, but I personally wouldn't have discovered random 359 00:18:50,300 --> 00:18:52,100 practice. If I hadn't read the science. 360 00:18:52,500 --> 00:18:56,400 Because because of that performance versus learning 361 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,600 thing, I would have stuck in Block practice because I would 362 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,300 have Felt better with it. I would have formed better with 363 00:19:02,300 --> 00:19:05,700 it and not it is only when I understood that difference, it 364 00:19:05,708 --> 00:19:08,500 was like a light bulb going off. It's like, oh wait there. 365 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,300 Yeah, learn it. But performing in for in 366 00:19:11,300 --> 00:19:13,000 practice, doesn't necessarily mean. 367 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:17,100 You're actually retaining any of it and the act of forgetting and 368 00:19:17,100 --> 00:19:20,800 then trying to remember it, that's what creates the 369 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,400 retention, and that's why random practice makes sense and then I 370 00:19:24,408 --> 00:19:27,300 started doing it more study see and benefits from it. 371 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,700 So I don't know if I would have discovered it myself. 372 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,700 Elf organically. Yeah, what do you think in 373 00:19:32,700 --> 00:19:34,800 John's case their did? What do you think about doing 374 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,700 that block to get down that this idea of? 375 00:19:37,700 --> 00:19:40,400 Alright, I'm going to go to, you know, what 9:00? 376 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:44,000 And that's 65 yards. Again, intuitively that makes 377 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:45,800 sense. I think we would all probably go 378 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:47,500 towards. I even after reading the blog 379 00:19:47,500 --> 00:19:51,300 versus random debate, my only question on that is. 380 00:19:51,700 --> 00:19:53,900 What if you just dump your random all the time? 381 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,500 You would have made more mistakes. 382 00:19:56,500 --> 00:19:58,700 You probably would have felt like you were learning less but 383 00:19:58,700 --> 00:20:01,600 we don't know what. Left even doing that building 384 00:20:01,700 --> 00:20:04,200 stage, where you're building these different distances. 385 00:20:04,500 --> 00:20:07,100 Well, if you've done the pelts method, just varying it, you 386 00:20:07,100 --> 00:20:10,000 know, going from 40 to 60 to 70. Yeah. 387 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,100 I think along the way how I've always practices, I'm always, 388 00:20:14,100 --> 00:20:17,000 like I'm always paying attention to what the golf ball is doing 389 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,000 and working backwards. So I'm always looking at what's 390 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,500 going on, I'm saying, like, oh, what could I do differently that 391 00:20:22,500 --> 00:20:25,200 time to react to that? So, I don't know if you would 392 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,300 classify that as like, all right? 393 00:20:27,300 --> 00:20:29,500 You know, sometimes I've experimented with, like grip 394 00:20:29,500 --> 00:20:31,600 change. Changes over the years to see 395 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,200 how it would affect my ball flight. 396 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,300 But I'm always like, I've always felt like I work backwards from 397 00:20:36,300 --> 00:20:39,500 what the ball is doing and if I have to you know potentially 398 00:20:39,500 --> 00:20:43,100 like is it my alignment? Is it my grip or something like 399 00:20:43,100 --> 00:20:44,800 that? Or is it you know a lot of other 400 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,800 things like I've always been like an experimenter in general 401 00:20:48,100 --> 00:20:50,400 especially when I was a kid, I used to go in the yard and just 402 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,600 like smack balls around and see what I crazy things I could do 403 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,300 with it. So I'm all for like taking time 404 00:20:57,300 --> 00:21:00,900 out of your session and trying to do like, Sometimes I'm 405 00:21:00,900 --> 00:21:03,400 struggling hooking the ball. I try and hit like an enormous 406 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,700 slice or just like experiment with what that feels like to 407 00:21:06,700 --> 00:21:08,900 help may be neutralized. What's making me hook? 408 00:21:08,900 --> 00:21:11,900 So I don't know if that would fall under the random part of 409 00:21:11,900 --> 00:21:14,200 it, but like it's an experimentation thing, like 410 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,300 challenging myself and through that process, like I'm trying to 411 00:21:17,308 --> 00:21:19,100 solve the problem of my ball flight. 412 00:21:19,100 --> 00:21:22,500 I'm working backwards that's been, my own quirky way of doing 413 00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:25,100 it and how I've arrived up my own golf game, I didn't know 414 00:21:25,100 --> 00:21:27,400 what I was doing at the time growing up or even through the 415 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,900 years, but that's how I felt like I built. 416 00:21:30,100 --> 00:21:33,300 To bring out to the golf course. I love that Adam. 417 00:21:33,300 --> 00:21:36,700 I'm curious your take on that kind of awareness drill where, 418 00:21:36,900 --> 00:21:39,200 you know, intentionally trying to hit a huge slice at a huge 419 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,900 hook, things like Tempo intentionally, you know, going 420 00:21:42,900 --> 00:21:49,500 Tempo. 50% 110% intentionally aiming left of your target line 421 00:21:49,500 --> 00:21:52,100 aiming, right? I love these awareness drills 422 00:21:52,100 --> 00:21:54,100 for people because a lot of people have such a lack of 423 00:21:54,100 --> 00:21:56,200 awareness because they never try anything different. 424 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,000 They just do the same thing over and over. 425 00:21:58,100 --> 00:22:01,100 Yeah, I think that's the core like if We're the core problem, 426 00:22:01,100 --> 00:22:04,100 we're trying to address here. Is like most golfers are doing 427 00:22:04,100 --> 00:22:05,700 the same thing over and over again. 428 00:22:05,700 --> 00:22:07,500 Unusually are not happy with the results. 429 00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:10,200 So what we're trying to do here is take you out of that pattern, 430 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,300 give you suggestions on how to how to get out of that rut and 431 00:22:13,300 --> 00:22:16,200 what you can do. So, you know, the continue with 432 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,500 the experimentation thing, but I think that's like the problem 433 00:22:18,500 --> 00:22:20,300 we're trying to solve here anything. 434 00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:22,700 I'd say we're doing the same thing over and over, is that 435 00:22:22,700 --> 00:22:25,900 even when we are in that block practice mode, we're still 436 00:22:25,900 --> 00:22:29,300 making on-the-fly adjustments, they might be more conscious for 437 00:22:29,300 --> 00:22:31,000 some people. Might be less conscious but, you 438 00:22:31,008 --> 00:22:34,900 know, even if I, if I'm in Block practice mode, I am hitting 439 00:22:34,900 --> 00:22:38,300 straighter shots than I normally would because somewhere 440 00:22:38,300 --> 00:22:41,200 unconsciously. If I hit one left, I know the 441 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:45,500 feeling of neutralizing that and it's a stage was unconscious now 442 00:22:45,500 --> 00:22:48,500 and I think that's why random practice is better for me 443 00:22:48,500 --> 00:22:52,000 because it makes those adjustments more conscious. 444 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,900 So say, for example, I hit a shot in Block practice. 445 00:22:54,900 --> 00:22:58,600 I hit it left, the next one, it's just automatic. 446 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,600 It's like, I'm this. Such a short period of time 447 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,400 between shots that the adjustment is already inbuilt 448 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,200 into my motor program. Whereas, if I hit one left in 449 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,600 random practice and I have to step back out, then I have to 450 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,400 hit a wedge shot. Then I have to get my 79 and 451 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,300 come back in again. Now, I have to remember I have 452 00:23:18,300 --> 00:23:21,600 to remember that I hit that last shot left and I have to make a 453 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,400 prediction that though this show might go left as well. 454 00:23:24,700 --> 00:23:28,900 Then I have to make a conscious intervention and say do I want 455 00:23:28,900 --> 00:23:32,500 to try Just this shot before it even happens, you know, on the 456 00:23:32,508 --> 00:23:37,400 prediction that is going left. And then I have to even say, how 457 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,400 much of an adjustment do I want to make? 458 00:23:39,700 --> 00:23:42,500 It's all on, it's much more of a conscious process when you're 459 00:23:42,500 --> 00:23:46,900 doing random practice, whereas, like I said, Blok, practice or 460 00:23:46,900 --> 00:23:49,500 low way effectively in the science, doing the same thing 461 00:23:49,500 --> 00:23:52,200 over and over again. We are constantly tinkering and 462 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,200 try and do certain things. It's just, it's more of an 463 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,700 unconscious process, and that's why I think blocked can these 464 00:23:59,700 --> 00:24:01,900 are Obviously benefits to it. You're going to get better if 465 00:24:01,900 --> 00:24:04,500 you do blocked, or are you going to get better than if you did 466 00:24:04,500 --> 00:24:07,700 the same amount of reps random or even the same amount of time 467 00:24:07,700 --> 00:24:10,900 random. So if someone want to have 468 00:24:10,900 --> 00:24:13,700 someone, you know, came to you and said, Adam, like I've been 469 00:24:13,700 --> 00:24:17,600 doing this block thing, my whole golf career without realizing it 470 00:24:17,608 --> 00:24:19,400 and I want to start doing random practice. 471 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,900 Can you give like some tangible examples of like, you know, if 472 00:24:23,900 --> 00:24:26,900 you were at the range for 3045 minutes, something like that, 473 00:24:26,900 --> 00:24:28,900 what would you tell them to do that? 474 00:24:28,900 --> 00:24:32,600 You would think it's Our bread and butter random practice I 475 00:24:32,700 --> 00:24:34,900 suppose. I would start with varying 476 00:24:34,900 --> 00:24:39,500 levels depending on the player. If they are really solid 477 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,600 mentally, you might shove them into full random practice mode. 478 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,900 So changing clubs, changing targets, changing shot type. 479 00:24:48,300 --> 00:24:50,500 So that would be the most difficult form, but then is the 480 00:24:50,500 --> 00:24:53,600 most representative and they'd have to understand the 481 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,200 performance versus learning thing. 482 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,700 Because if they start doing random, they start hitting it 483 00:24:57,700 --> 00:24:59,000 worse. They're going to think. 484 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,300 Well, I'm just Go go to block practice. 485 00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:04,300 Whereas if they understand it, if they understand that they 486 00:25:04,300 --> 00:25:07,100 might perform worse then they're more likely to stick through 487 00:25:07,100 --> 00:25:09,600 that. But yeah it might be a case of I 488 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,800 might select a target for them so he's got a left side boundary 489 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:16,100 right side boundary and I would say all right you're going to 490 00:25:16,108 --> 00:25:20,300 hit a driver down there. If successful you move to a 491 00:25:20,300 --> 00:25:24,700 wedge down the same Target if successful you move to a 7-iron 492 00:25:24,700 --> 00:25:27,400 down the Target and then if you get all three successfully you 493 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,800 win a point. So there are loads of it. 494 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,000 Such a simple thing, but there's quantification, there's 495 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,200 pressure, they could, even if they struggle with the driver, 496 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,900 they can make the drive the last shot so that, you know, the as 497 00:25:39,900 --> 00:25:42,400 they about to win that point, they're feeling the pressure. 498 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:47,200 So rather than hide from what we suffer from actually confronting 499 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,800 what we suffer from helps us through it and he's a nice book, 500 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,400 Viktor Frankl Man's Search. For meaning that talks about, 501 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,600 that going really deep here now, are we? 502 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,500 But yeah, it's just it's the random stuff here. 503 00:25:58,700 --> 00:26:02,200 I think you hit on an Oughtn't point there, atom, which is 504 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,100 almost layer. I think this is such a layered 505 00:26:04,100 --> 00:26:07,300 conversation like block and random as such the tip of the 506 00:26:07,300 --> 00:26:10,200 iceberg of this that it's hard to talk about it in concrete 507 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,800 terms. Like yes random yes block kind 508 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,900 of you know, like this is not a black and white kind of thing. 509 00:26:14,900 --> 00:26:18,600 Like because another aspect of you touched on like going 510 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,700 through the mental aspect of, there's a problem here in front 511 00:26:21,700 --> 00:26:23,100 of you. You have to go through all that 512 00:26:23,100 --> 00:26:26,600 problem solving to get to the solution and then try to execute 513 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:28,700 that solution and then reflect on that, right? 514 00:26:28,700 --> 00:26:32,500 The other You just also hit on was coming in with a plan of 515 00:26:32,500 --> 00:26:35,000 things to do, right? Like how many golfers come I 516 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:35,800 think? This is probably one of the 517 00:26:35,808 --> 00:26:37,800 biggest things. How many golfers come into any 518 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,600 practice session with any kind of plan, right? 519 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,300 The plan is to hit golf balls and try to hit them straight for 520 00:26:43,300 --> 00:26:46,900 most golfers which as we just talked about, is probably not 521 00:26:46,900 --> 00:26:48,700 where the Learning Happens, unfortunately. 522 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,800 So I mean, for myself, even I know this stuff, like it's very 523 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,600 different. Like, I don't keep a journal of, 524 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,000 you know, kind of a practice plan and don't come in with, 525 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,400 with plans necessarily and I know No, that's a problem and I 526 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,100 think it's something a lot of golfers struggle with because 527 00:27:03,100 --> 00:27:06,500 you just get reactive and then you, you start, you know, down 528 00:27:06,500 --> 00:27:09,200 your swing tips search. Pretty pretty quickly. 529 00:27:09,700 --> 00:27:14,300 I think, at at the bare minimum, you know, sometimes we assume 530 00:27:14,300 --> 00:27:18,200 that people might know more than they do about this topic, but 531 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,500 like, I think a lot of golfers when they go to the range and I 532 00:27:22,500 --> 00:27:24,900 probably did this for a really long time myself. 533 00:27:25,300 --> 00:27:27,300 Like, if you, if you pull them aside, be like, where are you 534 00:27:27,300 --> 00:27:29,700 trying to hit that ball? They would say like, oh, oh, 535 00:27:29,900 --> 00:27:31,100 There. And they're like, where's over 536 00:27:31,100 --> 00:27:32,000 there? You're like, I don't know. 537 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,300 Just out there. And when I always talk about 538 00:27:35,300 --> 00:27:38,400 like, working from my ball, flight backwards, like if I'm 539 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,800 not engaged in where I'm trying to actually land the ball and 540 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,200 seeing what's happening and paying attention to what the 541 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,800 golf ball is doing in relation to my target, then I have, I 542 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,800 believe, zero chance of fixing it, or working it working on 543 00:27:53,500 --> 00:27:54,900 building skills and getting better. 544 00:27:54,900 --> 00:27:58,000 Because like, there's no intention, right? 545 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,500 Like, every golf. Shot you hit on the course, like 546 00:28:01,500 --> 00:28:03,500 you're probably going to be choosing a Target. 547 00:28:03,500 --> 00:28:07,100 So I think a lot of golfers like just need to take the first step 548 00:28:07,100 --> 00:28:10,700 of like maybe going through a routine before they hit each 549 00:28:10,700 --> 00:28:13,900 ball at the range, sometimes, placing the bucket of balls 550 00:28:13,900 --> 00:28:15,300 behind you. So you're like forced to 551 00:28:15,308 --> 00:28:19,000 actually like, pick it up, walk back, take a second and refocus 552 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,000 and actually think about where you're hitting the ball and what 553 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:25,600 you're trying to do just taking that one simple step of really 554 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,500 it's a step of discipline. I believe could really make a 555 00:28:29,508 --> 00:28:30,200 world. Difference? 556 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,300 Right from there. And then, you know, making start 557 00:28:32,300 --> 00:28:35,400 introducing, like, all right, hit a driver, then a 7-iron, 558 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,100 then a pitching wedge and just go through cycle. 559 00:28:38,100 --> 00:28:40,800 All the targets on the Range try and play a game with yourself 560 00:28:41,100 --> 00:28:44,400 but no matter what. Even if it's random, you're 561 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,400 going to have to stop yourself and think about what you're 562 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,600 doing and pay attention to. What the ball did is I don't 563 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,000 think you have any chance of getting better. 564 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,700 If you don't have that even basic level of Engagement, even 565 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,200 something you said about picking a Target, I wrote a blog post 566 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,300 about three years ago. Four years ago Ago on a guy who 567 00:29:01,300 --> 00:29:04,000 I watched and he's a twenty handicapper, and he's hitting 568 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:05,800 these shots. And I'm just, I'm looking as 569 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,800 patent and thinking, there's no way this guy is off 20 and then 570 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,600 I asked him that question. What's your Target? 571 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,300 And he looked at me and said, I haven't got a Target, which is 572 00:29:15,300 --> 00:29:17,400 crazy, right? Some people do this, some of you 573 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,100 practice without it. So I gave him a Target out into 574 00:29:20,100 --> 00:29:23,400 the distance and he stood back walked in and then he looked 575 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,500 like a 30 handicapper didn't even look like a 20 handicapper 576 00:29:26,500 --> 00:29:30,600 anymore. So it's amazing how A locus of 577 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:35,200 attention where we place our attention can change, depending 578 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:36,600 on what type of practice were doing. 579 00:29:36,900 --> 00:29:39,200 Now, I asked that player. So what were you thinking of? 580 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,700 Before I pick the target for you and he said, well, I was 581 00:29:41,700 --> 00:29:45,200 thinking of my swing or as I can remember exactly what he said, 582 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,100 but it's something more internal and then when I picked a target 583 00:29:48,100 --> 00:29:51,600 for him he started thinking of the Target and the way I see 584 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,600 motor programs, it's almost like Pavlov's dogs in that our motor. 585 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,500 Programs are attached, very strongly to what we are 586 00:29:59,500 --> 00:30:01,900 thinking. Going about, if you give someone 587 00:30:01,900 --> 00:30:05,200 a Target Focus, they might produce one motor pattern might 588 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,700 be a shank pattern and then you give them an internal focus, and 589 00:30:08,700 --> 00:30:11,400 they might be able to produce a more centered strike pattern. 590 00:30:11,700 --> 00:30:13,500 Does that make sense to you guys? 591 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,500 Yeah, I actually think like, there's a disproportionate, 592 00:30:17,500 --> 00:30:20,300 like, I've always, golf is incredibly mental, obviously, 593 00:30:20,300 --> 00:30:23,500 and like, I always look at the 17th at TPC Sawgrass is like the 594 00:30:23,500 --> 00:30:29,000 perfect example of that. Those Pros was at 130 yard shot. 595 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,400 Five, like those guys have would have no issue hitting that 596 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,700 green, or that Target if there was no water around or anything 597 00:30:36,700 --> 00:30:39,400 to like worry about, or all those be like, it would be 598 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,300 automatic, they'd hit that green every time in a practice session 599 00:30:42,300 --> 00:30:45,900 but throw a bunch of water around it and where the pain is 600 00:30:45,900 --> 00:30:49,100 and all of a sudden like it just changes everything for them and 601 00:30:49,100 --> 00:30:52,100 they're hitting disproportionately poor shots, 602 00:30:52,500 --> 00:30:55,700 probably for their normal dispersion on that hole than any 603 00:30:55,700 --> 00:30:58,100 other hole. Just because it's the most 604 00:30:58,100 --> 00:31:01,300 unique mental challenge or One of them in golf probably, like, 605 00:31:01,300 --> 00:31:03,800 I always look at that holes. It's so interesting to me 606 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,100 because like, it just once you change the reference point, you 607 00:31:07,100 --> 00:31:10,100 know, your mind can do some crazy things to your body, and 608 00:31:10,100 --> 00:31:13,000 you can't fit. And I guess my point is that, if 609 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,800 you're not taking that step during practice and you're just 610 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,000 randomly swinging, like there's no pressure on you. 611 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,000 You're just letting your body, you know, free flow and like 612 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:23,400 that. That's never going to happen on 613 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:24,900 the golf course. Like you're never going to walk 614 00:31:24,900 --> 00:31:27,500 up to a shot and just be like, I'm just gonna swing and, you 615 00:31:27,508 --> 00:31:30,300 know, I hope you can get to that point but There's always going 616 00:31:30,300 --> 00:31:33,100 to be like more pressure because you got one chance and you're 617 00:31:33,100 --> 00:31:34,800 focusing more on the target at that point. 618 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,600 So yeah, I guess we're trying to get to the point practice where 619 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,800 you're not recreating the golf experience. 620 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:42,800 Exactly. But you're at least giving 621 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,800 yourself a better chance at dealing with those problems and 622 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:50,400 practice that you would see on the golf course versus just 623 00:31:50,700 --> 00:31:53,600 winging it and doing nothing special at all. 624 00:31:53,700 --> 00:31:57,800 Definitely, I I've done it where I've let players hit shots 625 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,300 towards 150-yard. Agate and looked at their shop 626 00:32:01,300 --> 00:32:04,800 patterns, and then I've kind of recreated what you were talking 627 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,000 about? The 17th at Sawgrass, by saying 628 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,000 that. Okay, you get a point every time 629 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:13,400 you hit this 20-yard Square, so you got 20 to 10 yards left, 10 630 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,400 yards, right? 10 yards long, tenured shorts or 631 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,500 20 yards square and you lose three points. 632 00:32:18,500 --> 00:32:22,400 If you miss it or I can even if someone has issues, say someone 633 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,900 comes to me and they say I'm hitting it left, this goes to 634 00:32:24,900 --> 00:32:26,300 court, his point about constraints. 635 00:32:26,300 --> 00:32:29,000 Been spaced learning I would say. 636 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,800 Okay well let's Play a game where you get a point every time 637 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,800 you hit this target, 20 yards, they decide but you lose three, 638 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,800 if you miss it left and you don't lose anything if you miss 639 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,500 it, right? So that starts to evolve the 640 00:32:41,500 --> 00:32:44,300 entire ecosystem of the players or, you know, things like that 641 00:32:44,300 --> 00:32:47,700 are alignment their path. They face their perceptions, 642 00:32:47,700 --> 00:32:51,100 their fears of that left side because they know if you can 643 00:32:51,100 --> 00:32:54,000 visualize this, they know if I miss this left, I'm going to 644 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,700 lose three points. Whereas, if I miss it, right, 645 00:32:56,700 --> 00:32:59,100 there's no loss. I don't gain the point, but I 646 00:32:59,108 --> 00:33:01,300 don't lose. Use and then I say, stand there 647 00:33:01,300 --> 00:33:05,500 until you reach 20 points. So, do you think one of the best 648 00:33:05,500 --> 00:33:08,800 ways to solve this problem for most players would be like some 649 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:10,900 type of performance game? Yeah, yeah. 650 00:33:10,900 --> 00:33:13,600 That's why would cause like, if you just tell people like, oh, 651 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,700 just rip practice randomly. Like, they don't necessarily 652 00:33:16,700 --> 00:33:19,000 know what that means. And I always view these 653 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,700 performance games as a way to solve that, because it creates 654 00:33:21,700 --> 00:33:25,000 pressure creates that scenario where you are changing targets 655 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,200 every time and you're focusing more on each shot to kind of 656 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,500 solve that problem. Like I've I do it myself more in 657 00:33:31,500 --> 00:33:33,800 the winter. Like I have a, the simulator 658 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,000 thing in my house and like my kids playroom and like I'll just 659 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,900 play around of simulated Golf and to me, that's great random 660 00:33:39,900 --> 00:33:41,800 practice. Because like, I'm playing the 661 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:43,700 World, Golf Tour and hitting shots. 662 00:33:43,700 --> 00:33:46,300 I'm like Pebble Beach and like, I'm actually like thinking about 663 00:33:46,300 --> 00:33:48,900 what's going on rather than just like slamming, my driver into 664 00:33:48,900 --> 00:33:52,000 the net as hard as I can. Yeah, it's interesting, you 665 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,700 know, on that performance game, there's this whole concept of 666 00:33:54,700 --> 00:33:57,400 like as humans. We either adapt to an 667 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,700 environment and succeed. Over time. 668 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,100 And so, you know, when you create a game, that's really 669 00:34:04,100 --> 00:34:06,400 effective. Hopefully the idea is you get. 670 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,600 So engaged in that game that time goes by really fast, you're 671 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,400 having a ton of fun that it's, you know, appropriate it 672 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:16,000 challenging and that you learn how to succeed at that game. 673 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,400 If it's a really well structured game, it's going to help your 674 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,400 help your golf game. And so that's what I love about 675 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,800 you know, Adam your your stuff is that a lot of these games to 676 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,900 figure out face control or low Point control stuff like that 677 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:33,199 that that you A is, it's making people figure it out. 678 00:34:33,300 --> 00:34:38,300 And a lot of times, you know, in that ability to keep going until 679 00:34:38,300 --> 00:34:41,400 they figured out is where that learning that learning is, which 680 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,400 is, which makes it super effective for retention, which 681 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,000 is, which is really what we're looking for. 682 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,400 That would be like, if someone's listening to this and they're 683 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,000 like, how can I get started on this? 684 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,800 Like I would, you know, whether it's like Adams resources or 685 00:34:54,900 --> 00:34:57,700 there's plenty of performance games out there, like that would 686 00:34:57,700 --> 00:35:02,500 be my recommendation is to like approach it find performance 687 00:35:02,500 --> 00:35:05,700 games that challenge you like there's a great short game. 688 00:35:05,700 --> 00:35:07,200 Performance game is called par 18. 689 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,200 We're like you just choose nine Targets on the chipping green 690 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:14,100 and you're trying to get up and down each time and you register 691 00:35:14,100 --> 00:35:16,800 your score. So you're presented with nine 692 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:21,100 situations where you have to try and Chip or pitch the ball and 693 00:35:21,100 --> 00:35:24,200 hopefully one pot or two, but at worst and you've got your score 694 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,000 at the end of the round, and you can play that game every week 695 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,400 and keep track of your progress rather than just Now, if you did 696 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,700 have a short game facility, you can access just like smacking 697 00:35:33,700 --> 00:35:36,200 the same sandwich over and over again to the same Target. 698 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,600 That would be. My recommendation is to move 699 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,400 away from that kind of practice to, I think the performance 700 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:45,800 games like push you in that random scenario where you're 701 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,900 actually like putting real pressure on yourself and it's 702 00:35:47,900 --> 00:35:50,700 and it's just more fun. Like like I tell you when I hit 703 00:35:50,700 --> 00:35:54,900 balls over the winter with the simulator, like I enjoy that way 704 00:35:54,900 --> 00:35:58,300 more than just like hitting balls into a net. 705 00:35:58,300 --> 00:36:00,300 I know not everyone has access to To a simulator. 706 00:36:00,300 --> 00:36:03,400 But like even if you are at the range like playing an imaginary 707 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,000 Golf Course or something like that, it's just more engaging 708 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,100 and more fun. And I think you'll get better 709 00:36:08,100 --> 00:36:10,900 doing that this performance games and there's so many 710 00:36:10,900 --> 00:36:12,500 different layers. You could add on to it. 711 00:36:12,500 --> 00:36:14,600 Random or blocked is just one of them. 712 00:36:14,900 --> 00:36:18,100 A random clubs targets lies shots, whether you doing a 60 or 713 00:36:18,100 --> 00:36:21,600 90 yard shot, but even adding things like observers, you know, 714 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,000 I knew that from group coaching that, you know, just someone 715 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,100 hitting shots on their own. Even if they play in a certain 716 00:36:27,100 --> 00:36:30,200 game, they're going to produce different patterns and So all of 717 00:36:30,207 --> 00:36:33,100 a sudden five or six people that are random watching, I always 718 00:36:33,100 --> 00:36:36,400 tell the anecdote of, I remember hitting shots on the Range in 719 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,700 Spain and just blasting these drivers, big high draws down the 720 00:36:39,700 --> 00:36:42,700 Target and I just, you know, I just felt like a golf God. 721 00:36:42,700 --> 00:36:44,900 And then, I notice behind me that there are a couple of 722 00:36:44,900 --> 00:36:48,600 people watching and I didn't feel any different. 723 00:36:48,900 --> 00:36:51,500 I didn't nothing changed consciously, but then I started 724 00:36:51,500 --> 00:36:55,300 spraying them all over the shop. So it's just that just the 725 00:36:55,300 --> 00:36:57,400 observer effect, right? Schrodinger's golf. 726 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,200 So yeah, adding observers makes it more or realistic 727 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,600 quantification so that we talked about a game where you get a 728 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,400 point. If you hit a Target, you lose 729 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,600 points. If you miss a certain direction 730 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,500 that adds pressure. And if you record those games as 731 00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:15,000 well, if you write down and say right, I scored 100 points today 732 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,600 or 80 out of 100. Today, I'm going to try and beat 733 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:19,100 that tomorrow. Then there's going to be 734 00:37:19,107 --> 00:37:21,000 pressure. When you start that situation 735 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,200 that very first ball has pressure, and then the emotions 736 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,200 part of it as well. Often we practicing, there are 737 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:27,900 no emotions. We hit one left. 738 00:37:27,900 --> 00:37:29,500 It's okay, just grab another one. 739 00:37:29,700 --> 00:37:32,100 Whereas, if you're playing a game where you lose three 740 00:37:32,100 --> 00:37:34,700 points, if you hit it left, I've seen people slam their Club into 741 00:37:34,700 --> 00:37:38,300 the ground, which all right isn't great, but it shows the 742 00:37:38,308 --> 00:37:41,000 day they are engaged. Now in the practice, it shows it 743 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,600 means something to them. And if that's who they are and 744 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:47,500 the golf course they can't shy away from that because then they 745 00:37:47,500 --> 00:37:50,900 never learned a deal with that frustration or the Elysian. 746 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,300 So, all these games that have this quantification is 747 00:37:54,300 --> 00:37:56,900 performance games that John talked about, I call them 748 00:37:56,900 --> 00:37:59,500 transference games because they help you transfer. 749 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,500 Do what you have to the golf course. 750 00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:03,600 I think it's there's so many layers to it. 751 00:38:03,900 --> 00:38:06,600 Well, I feel like we could talk all day on this topic and 752 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,300 there's no doubt that we could, maybe we come back next week and 753 00:38:09,300 --> 00:38:13,500 we, and we share some of our favorite kind of games routines 754 00:38:13,500 --> 00:38:17,000 or habits that, you know, maybe for John and I have helped us 755 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,600 personally, Adam, what you've seen with students what you've 756 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:24,100 heard about and we can come back and share a few few next time on 757 00:38:24,100 --> 00:38:25,900 that episode. But guys, this has been great, 758 00:38:25,900 --> 00:38:28,300 there's so many things to share and there's so many layers to 759 00:38:28,300 --> 00:38:31,700 this conversation again. We enjoy I really enjoy this and 760 00:38:31,700 --> 00:38:33,700 we could probably do a whole food. 761 00:38:33,700 --> 00:38:36,300 Probably do a Daily Show. Just talking about this. 762 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,600 I guess the real question going to find out is someone going to 763 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:41,900 listen to that? We got to make it good right. 764 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:43,700 I hope you. Yeah. 765 00:38:43,700 --> 00:38:47,500 I mean we could go on forever on this stuff and I think like I 766 00:38:47,508 --> 00:38:50,300 think the main point a lot of us I hope I think we're trying to 767 00:38:50,300 --> 00:38:54,400 make is like block is what comes natural to Golfers and we'd want 768 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,500 to push you more towards that random flavor in your practice 769 00:38:58,500 --> 00:39:01,000 just too. Increase your engagement in the 770 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,200 pressure, you put on yourself and I think that's going to give 771 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,400 you a better chance of solving that problem of taking your 772 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:10,000 skills off the golf course, onto the golf course, that would be 773 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,600 by my final point on that. Because I know that really 774 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,300 pisses people off when they hit a great on the range and then 775 00:39:15,300 --> 00:39:17,900 they can't hit anything close to that on the course. 776 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,700 Yeah, people already do enough. It's just a bummer. 777 00:39:20,700 --> 00:39:24,200 There are no books about practicing golf disappoint. 778 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:29,900 Yeah there was only one. Alright guys, see you next Week. 779 00:39:29,900 --> 00:39:31,100 Alright, thanks Chase guys.