1 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,880 Doctor Bridget Burns is in the midst of an illustrious career 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:08,480 in higher Ed. She's advised college 3 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:12,360 presidents, she's LED higher Ed governance reform legislation, 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,440 she's served on state education task forces and received a 5 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:18,680 numerous gubernatorial appointments. 6 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,240 Today she leads a groundbreaking, or shall we say 7 00:00:22,240 --> 00:00:26,320 path breaking organization called the University Innovation 8 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,400 Alliance. But our own path in education 9 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,360 was challenging. I'm actually Exhibit A, and many 10 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:34,560 of the people I work with were Exhibit A of the kinds of 11 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,560 students that America has been failing for a long time and that 12 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,840 our systems of our universities are not and colleges are not set 13 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,280 up for. She's talking about students who 14 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,560 are a lot like her, students who are the first generation of 15 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,360 their family to attend college and students who are from low 16 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,440 income families. A lot of these students are also 17 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:56,800 students of color, and too many campus systems are not set up to 18 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:00,200 support these students. Bridget knows that the stakes 19 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,640 are high for anyone pursuing a college education from that 20 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:09,120 background. It literally is the difference 21 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:11,840 between getting out of intergenerational poverty and 22 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,240 not. Bridget's own lackluster 23 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:18,040 experience as a college undergrad crystallized for her 24 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:22,360 of mission to improve the college experience and education 25 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:26,400 outcomes for vulnerable students across the entire field of 26 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,520 higher education. And to do so by fundamentally 27 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,760 changing the way higher Ed institutions approach problem 28 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,920 solving around student experience, namely through 29 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,800 radical inter institutional collaboration. 30 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,560 That's what the University Innovation Alliance is all 31 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,000 about. We are not interested in 32 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,160 posturing and preening. And that's generally where the 33 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:51,200 conversation ends in higher Ed is a lot of, you know, show pony 34 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,680 showing off. And but when we get to the real 35 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:55,760 substance of it, it's like, yeah, but how'd you actually do 36 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,080 that? And we just need good ideas to 37 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:01,720 not be a trade secret. So you've got to make it so that 38 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,880 it's not just possible to talk about the hard stuff around 39 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:07,400 change management and innovation. 40 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:12,520 But it's actually the currency. Welcome to Path Breakers, a show 41 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,320 about what it takes to cut through the noise and the red 42 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,360 tape and all of the other obstacles to progress. 43 00:02:18,920 --> 00:02:22,320 I'm Tracy Pearson and I work on the communications team at the 44 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,920 Kresge Foundation. And I'm Jamie Bennett. 45 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,960 I work at the intersections of arts, culture, and equitable 46 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,160 community development. On each episode, we talk with a 47 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,960 different path breaker who's forging a new way forward in 48 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,240 their community. Today we're talking with Doctor 49 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,320 Bridget Burns about what it takes to get a consortium of 50 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,680 college presidents together, put the institutional competition 51 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,560 aside so that they can share their best ideas about the nitty 52 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:51,320 gritty of their most successful student support programs. 53 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,480 Welcome to the Path Breakers podcast, Doctor Burns, we are so 54 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:02,280 happy to have you join us today. So why don't we start with you 55 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:06,160 introducing yourself, your name, your role, and your? 56 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,360 Organization. So my name is Bridget Burns and 57 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:13,520 I am the CEO of the University Innovation Alliance, which is a 58 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,000 consortium of universities who have banded together to try and 59 00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:20,320 make it so that good ideas that serve students aren't treated 60 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:23,240 like trade secrets. And we can actually team up to 61 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,640 address some of the big challenges that hinder the 62 00:03:25,640 --> 00:03:28,760 experience of far too many low income, first generation and 63 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,520 students of color. So yeah, that's what I do. 64 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,400 Awesome. So when you say a consortium of 65 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,200 of universities and colleges, what does that, what does that 66 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,160 look like? Well, so it, it started more 67 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,920 than just over a decade ago and it was, it's just at the end of 68 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,040 these, it's just people. These are just people working in 69 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,960 big, large organizations in an industry that has been hyper 70 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,520 competitive from day one. We compete them against each 71 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:58,080 other on everything possible. And and yet there are some 72 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:02,360 things that they are struggling with that frankly are universal. 73 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:06,320 And if you expect them to individually solve those 74 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:07,920 problems, we're going to be waiting a long time. 75 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,800 And we also need them to team up and and actually solve some big 76 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:13,240 challenges facing us as a country. 77 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:17,240 So this group of presidents were all originally former first 78 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,079 generation, low income and students of color. 79 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:21,800 I started with 11 of them and they just got into a room and 80 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:23,360 they had a conversation. It was very simple. 81 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,760 And it was basically talking about the fact that we weren't 82 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,160 producing enough college graduates to keep America on 83 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:31,920 track for economic competitiveness. 84 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,920 And we were doing a really bad job as a country when it came to 85 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,200 serving low income for Shen and students of color. 86 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,840 And it would be a huge waste of time, energy and money if they 87 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:45,040 continue to go it alone and, you know, repeat experiments. 88 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,640 And so, you know, how do I do it? 89 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:52,640 We create experiences where it's we help them suspend reality and 90 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:57,840 pretend that they don't compete. And it's a matter of focusing on 91 00:04:57,840 --> 00:05:02,720 two things, which is the shared problems that they have and the 92 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:04,360 big things they can only accomplish together. 93 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:06,760 That's it. I don't talk about other stuff. 94 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,000 I'm not interested in other stuff. 95 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,120 I'm interested only in creating space where those are the two 96 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:18,040 pillars that we focus our time together and make it really 97 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,320 acceptable. And, and, and frankly, we, we 98 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,360 flip the script a bit that the only way you get a microphone 99 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,040 and a UIA event is if you're going to share a story from 100 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,680 failure, you know, sharing war stories of, Oh my gosh, do not 101 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:31,680 try and combine your data systems in the middle of 102 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,320 changing your HR system. And let me tell you how bad that 103 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,560 is because those things make it so that, Oh my gosh, you don't 104 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:40,560 have to keep repeating the mistakes of others. 105 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,320 And, you know, because all of that is costly. 106 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,040 You have, you know, thousands of universities and community 107 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,080 colleges around the country who need to do a better job for 108 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,120 students. We need them to perform better 109 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,280 for our students. But it's actually, these are 110 00:05:54,280 --> 00:05:57,040 just human beings who are working in really busy, hard 111 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,400 jobs. And every day right now is a 112 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,760 slog. They are facing constant 113 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,920 criticism, new cuts every day the public is upset. 114 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:07,320 You know, it's it's just a really hard. 115 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,560 And so think about when you need to punch above your weight and 116 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:14,040 when you need to do awesome. Do you do really well when you 117 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:19,200 feel like constant scarcity and constant, you know, you know, 118 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,400 criticism and, and that there's no help coming? 119 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:26,000 No, you do better when you actually can focus on, you know, 120 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:27,880 the small things you can actually work on together, when 121 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,520 you can same team it and, and share practical advice. 122 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:35,160 And frankly, you know, we start there, but that quickly goes to 123 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,640 innovation. It goes to AI enable chat bots 124 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,080 that we've been using for more than five years now, like 125 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,240 everyone else, welcome to ChatGPT. 126 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:47,400 But you can you can move a lot faster when you create this kind 127 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,760 of a culture. And so we are focused on scaling 128 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:54,400 innovation because one of the early conversations we had was 129 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,800 people talking about, you know, we have a centre for this or we 130 00:06:57,800 --> 00:06:59,640 have this experiment, or we've done this. 131 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,840 And we, if we can get past that surface conversation and get 132 00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:08,120 real, then we can actually talk about the real challenges and 133 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,960 build solutions that help them on things that if we don't do it 134 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:13,080 together, it's never going to happen. 135 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:15,640 So that's how we do it. It's amazing. 136 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,600 And Bridget, I want to take a step back for a second. 137 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,320 I mean, you're Doctor Bridget Burns, you're leading the 138 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,640 University Innovation Alliance. I'm assuming that you're just 139 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,440 someone who's always loved school, always succeeded, just 140 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,440 never wanted to leave. What was? 141 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,280 What was your own path to getting to UIA? 142 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,600 So adorable that you think that that that I love that that must 143 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,640 it must be, you know, the the business blazer it. 144 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,960 Gives Scarlet. Right. 145 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:48,000 So I grew up in poverty in rural Montana, family of four living 146 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,160 on less than $20,000 a year. My dad was a farrier, which is 147 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,280 like a horseshoer, and he went into work one day and a horse 148 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,080 flipped over on him when I was 2 years old and he was paralyzed 149 00:07:58,080 --> 00:07:59,880 from the waist down. South. 150 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,920 Tragedy happens all the time. People are resilient. 151 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:08,000 My family basically had 100% unemployment my whole life. 152 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:09,600 My mom stayed home, take care of my dad. 153 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:14,280 And so, you know, I didn't get a lot of good advice about how to 154 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,960 navigate higher Ed. I got nothing but bad advice. 155 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,080 Actually. My dad used to always just say 156 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,000 that if I wanted to go to college, I should only do, I 157 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,560 should just do what my brother did and win a state championship 158 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:28,640 in wrestling, which was like so helpful for a 13 year old girl. 159 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,919 And so like a lot of lot of first Shen and low income 160 00:08:32,919 --> 00:08:35,799 students, I followed you. You get the bad advice, you find 161 00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:39,400 something in it to follow. For me, I thought if I worked 162 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,400 really hard and won something, if I was great at something, I 163 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,520 would get to go to college because I knew I was going to 164 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,600 pay for myself. And so I totally neglected my 165 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,240 studies and focused exclusively on winning A state championship. 166 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,080 I did in debate. So I'm not a, I'm not a, I'm not 167 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,400 an unserious or unsmart person, but I barely eked out of high 168 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,480 school with a 2.3 GPA because of that. 169 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:05,640 And so I was left with the reality that it turns out, you 170 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,840 know, people aren't as interested in a mediocre student 171 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,360 who can argue about it. So I didn't have a scholarship. 172 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:14,720 I stumbled to a Community College and as soon as I got 173 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,680 there I discovered these people are all good people who want to 174 00:09:18,680 --> 00:09:22,880 help, but this place is not actually set up around the user. 175 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:24,640 This is not set up for me as a student. 176 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:28,280 Like at no point does anyone coach me on how to be successful 177 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:29,480 at college because we don't do that. 178 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,200 You know, you're just supposed to pick that up, I guess from 179 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:36,400 the, the like the water supply. We, you know, I walk. 180 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,000 I didn't know when to go to an advisor. 181 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,720 I heard the word office hour and thought that meant people were 182 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,600 doing office work so I shouldn't bother them. 183 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:46,720 I took really interesting classes and it was a 184 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,880 transformative experience, but not a lot of it had to do with 185 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:54,480 my program of study because we hand 18 year olds a choose your 186 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:56,400 own adventure map with no guidance. 187 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:00,000 And I, you know, it still worked out for me. 188 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,560 It still was the most incredible transformative experience. 189 00:10:03,560 --> 00:10:06,120 It completely changed who I am and I'm deeply passionate about 190 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:10,040 everyone getting the kind of epiphanies and like light bulb 191 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,600 awakening moments that I had from higher education. 192 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,040 And it's why I'm I literally everyday I get it. 193 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,080 I get to go to work and do a job that's amazing. 194 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:24,080 I wouldn't be here without it. But it became very clear that 195 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,080 this, it's not nobody's setting these booby traps for students. 196 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,240 Nobody's twisting their mustache in the ivory tower. 197 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:34,680 It's actually really hard to help an institution improve. 198 00:10:35,560 --> 00:10:40,280 These are big bureaucracies. You want them to serve, you 199 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,200 know, thousands upon thousands of students. 200 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,200 It's really difficult to drive change an environment like that. 201 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,280 The world has changed. And so I, you know, spent a few 202 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,400 years working in a state where I just saw universities throwing 203 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,160 elbows. We should have been same team. 204 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:58,960 Why? We are serving the same state. 205 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,680 How is this possible? Why can't we collaborate? 206 00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:04,720 And then I realize, oh, cuz collaboration frankly is a 207 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,160 terrible experience. It's a, it's a lot of extra work 208 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:10,600 people throw on you that they expect of you. 209 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,720 It's unpaid. And so I got to go. 210 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,720 I was given an opportunity that led to the alliance, which is I 211 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,600 got to do an ace fellowship, which is kind of like baby 212 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:24,800 president school and you shadow a president for a year. 213 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,600 And I wanted to know if all this innovation hype out there was 214 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:30,560 real. And I wanted to understand what 215 00:11:30,560 --> 00:11:34,640 was going on around the country. And so I shadowed ASU President 216 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:38,240 Michael Crowe, and I quickly learned it's real. 217 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,640 The innovation work is legitimately different in in 218 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,080 certain environments. And I wanted to understand why 219 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,680 innovation works in some places and why it wasn't scaling. 220 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:51,160 And simultaneously, this idea for the alliance had happened. 221 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:54,840 The these presidents had come up with this idea and I was free 222 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,080 labor because I was an ace fellow. 223 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:02,320 And so I, you know, I jumped into it and have been here since 224 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:03,880 the beginning. That's amazing. 225 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,480 And Michael Crowe, I know Michael a little bit, he seems 226 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:11,200 to be one of the few university presidents I've run across who 227 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,840 understands that it's no longer 18th century Germany and that 228 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,960 universities don't have to sort of operate in the same way. 229 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,600 And what's interesting to me in this moment is we have some of 230 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:26,520 those big long term historic issues that were true when you 231 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:28,800 were being a student, that were true for the generation before 232 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:33,000 you, that are true today. And my hunch is that the past 233 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:37,160 six months have maybe been one of the most difficult times to 234 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,480 be a university in the United States. 235 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,520 When you sort of think about those big ongoing things and the 236 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,560 immediate things that are coming up and changing every day. 237 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,480 How are universities, how are presidents balancing those while 238 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,280 still trying to center the students and center the teaching 239 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,360 and learning? How do you do those two things? 240 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,520 It's very difficult. It is the hardest job in 241 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,760 America. These are huge organizations 242 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:06,240 that are so we cannot screw this up. 243 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,080 We cannot afford to lose progress. 244 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:12,000 These like the life changing experience I had and you know, 245 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,200 millions of other people have had where it's the it's the 246 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,880 trampoline upon which most of the good innovation that changes 247 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,320 society and it helps us evolve comes from. 248 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:27,240 And yet it at the end of the day, right now, it is under 249 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:32,640 attack and a level that has never been some of it was prior 250 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,040 to this moment. There has been feedback that 251 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,480 they that hired we should have been listening to we should have 252 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:42,040 been shifting. But it is the most precarious 253 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,200 moment I think in in the history of American higher education. 254 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,720 No question. And we could lose all the 255 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,480 progress we could, we could lose our leading edge as a country if 256 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,240 we don't see the big picture here, which is if you want 257 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,040 progress and innovation and change and creativity, and you 258 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,880 want solutions that fundamentally change the lives 259 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:04,040 of everyday people, that comes out of educating people and 260 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,000 giving them opportunities so that they can build those 261 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:07,360 solutions. And it comes out of 262 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,640 universities. We are the the laboratory. 263 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:15,200 We are the, you know, the spark. And right now, if you're a 264 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,760 college president, you are in the trenches. 265 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:23,040 You're head down war tattered. It is so it is so much harder 266 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:24,600 than I've. And I thought I'd knew it like 267 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:29,800 I've been at this now for 11 years and a decade prior. 268 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,320 And it's the hard it, it really is. 269 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,520 You know, I yes, I help them collaborate, but right now I'm 270 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,120 just trying to keep keep them in their jobs. 271 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,880 Because every time that you transition a president, you lose 272 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,160 five to seven years of progress at a university. 273 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,560 Because think about it like the whole team. 274 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,360 When you lose, think, imagine yourself losing the big boss. 275 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,440 That means that some now the provost's going to leave now 276 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,400 other vice presidents, now Dean's, now all of a sudden it's 277 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:00,400 destabilized. Anything you thought you had 278 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,560 permission to do, now you don't know if you have permission to 279 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:04,560 do it. I think it's either it's, it's 280 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,280 either fire, ice, you're either frozen and you can't move 281 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,480 forward or everything is on fire. 282 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:16,640 And so right now, I need them to survive this moment and navigate 283 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:18,920 it. It is really difficult. 284 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,720 But yeah, I think that I think we're going to get through it. 285 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:24,640 But yeah, they need, they need buddies. 286 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,520 And I don't know if you know that this is very unusual for 287 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:31,040 them to have buddies, an environment in which they would 288 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:35,040 get to have conversations about the real hard nuts and bolts of, 289 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:36,880 of doing these jobs. Because these jobs are really 290 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:43,200 precarious and most of the rooms they're in are massive or it's 291 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,360 or they're on a stage. And so they don't actually get 292 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:49,480 to talk about the heart stuff anywhere else. 293 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:55,720 I can only imagine the amount of trust that is required to be the 294 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:59,320 connective tissue between all of these individuals and and and 295 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:03,080 professionals and and their teams and bringing them 296 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:08,360 together. It's it does take a lot of trust 297 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,680 and usually it has to be earned, right. 298 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,000 Every time I get a new president, I'm just nobody, 299 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:15,000 right? Like, who are you? 300 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,880 I need to show up with and solve a problem for them. 301 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,440 Thankfully, the more that we've been established over time, the 302 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:27,240 UI has been known to actually do the real work, the more that 303 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,080 they are aware that this is actually a very exclusive group. 304 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,200 Like we're kind of like the ID league of student success 305 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,240 innovation. But if elitism actually, if 306 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,400 exclusivity served the purpose, like the future of our country, 307 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,600 if, if the only we're exclusive in that you have to actually 308 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,200 really mean it that you care about low income students and 309 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,560 you're going to, you're going to actually like show it. 310 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:48,960 You're going to actually make hard decisions that are not 311 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,120 popular in order to support improving outcomes for those 312 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,840 students. And so if you're willing to do 313 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:56,680 that, then those are those are our people. 314 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,560 Not elite for the sake of just being exclusive. 315 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,520 And I think there are a lot of challenges right now to Jamie's 316 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,920 point, not higher education. So what I'm curious to know what 317 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,079 are some of the challenges that you all are trying to sort of 318 00:17:09,079 --> 00:17:13,280 navigate within the context of UIA? 319 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:18,000 So, you know, we're in an interesting inflection point. 320 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,640 So the first decade of the UIA, we President Obama announced our 321 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,720 first goal on stage. We were going to, we were going 322 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:29,200 to commit to graduating 68,000 more students then we were on 323 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:30,840 track to. And so it was going to take us 324 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,200 actually, you know, think about the students who would have 325 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,040 dropped out. We're we wanted to commit to 326 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,240 68,000 / 10 years more of those would actually, actually 327 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:40,720 graduate. And in that time period, we 328 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:45,520 actually hit 164,000. So so and you know, 100% more 329 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,480 graduates of color, 43% more low income graduates. 330 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,240 Nothing in American higher Ed has ever accomplished anything 331 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:52,720 like this. So we figured out how to do 332 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,240 systemic changes. That's right. 333 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,320 And so that's what I mean by like my form of elite. 334 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,640 These people are like elbow grease like we are, we are, we 335 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:03,680 are, you know, we don't have time to play. 336 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:05,360 We are very serious about this work. 337 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:10,440 So you have the backdrop of, you know, UA one point O is student 338 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,720 success and more degrees. I think that, you know, in terms 339 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:18,960 of projects that we're working on next, the two big challenges 340 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:24,880 we're tackling right now are the, the moment a young person 341 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:29,360 is is looking at college and thinking about it right now, the 342 00:18:29,360 --> 00:18:32,680 way that that experience is set up makes totally no sense. 343 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,680 It makes zero sense that we ask you to pick a college not 344 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:39,400 knowing anything about the outcomes of those institutions. 345 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,960 We make this assumption that you're going to like go travel 346 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:44,440 somewhere. No, most people actually pick a 347 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,400 college near them. So of the ones near me, who does 348 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,080 the best job with a low income first generation student who's 349 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:54,280 interested in possibly becoming an attorney, who like to, you 350 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:55,920 know, help it make it make it make sense. 351 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:59,720 Help help me feel like I understand what's actually, you 352 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:04,040 know, what I need to know. And then, and then it's insane 353 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,720 that we asked them to choose a major before they know anything 354 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:11,120 about a career, right? We think that by listening to 355 00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:15,440 those to young students and students who are in their first 356 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,320 year after being admitted, that we can actually build a 357 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,320 fundamentally different experience that would be 358 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,800 connected to career readiness. Help them match, make with the 359 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:28,400 right major, reduce the number of major changes and excess 360 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,920 credits, help them get through in four years, you know, 361 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,600 actually have a plan. So that's one place, but and the 362 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,320 other is that the classroom is where career readiness needs to 363 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:42,040 be, that it's the one place all students go is the classroom. 364 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:46,880 And so we, we want to actually be able to to make that a 365 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,960 reality for them. When I ask people what it was 366 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,440 around their educational undergrad experience that that 367 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,560 set them up for their career, they talk about like, you know, 368 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,560 I was the president of a club, or I was the, you know, head of 369 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,400 my sorority, or I was the student newspaper, or I, you 370 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,200 know, it was, I was in a lab and I was doing undergraduate 371 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,200 research or I was part of a, we did this, you know, design 372 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:10,320 competition as a team and I did this. 373 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,880 It's things that technically didn't happen in the classroom. 374 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,080 Right. That and I don't think people 375 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,960 give higher Ed credit for all of that stuff, right? 376 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,480 And that's, that is the stuff that is helping them post 377 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,440 college that is going to set them up for success. 378 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,480 But we don't give students, I think good marching orders when 379 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,120 they come in that you're going to go to class. 380 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,560 That is awesome and there's going to be incredible learning 381 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,360 there. But you have to go out and, and 382 00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:37,800 actually maximize the value. Half of it is going to be what 383 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,040 you do with this stuff out here. When you're going to do an 384 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,080 internship, when you're going to be part of activities. 385 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,320 You see those students who get through and at the end of their 386 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,960 when they're ready to graduate. And you know that if they didn't 387 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,760 do those things, if they didn't actually maximize the 388 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,680 experience, we do still have a backup plan for them. 389 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:57,280 And that is called career services. 390 00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:59,800 It's an office that is only a backup plan. 391 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,480 It is not actually the plan. The plan was the whole place. 392 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:06,760 So it's a reframe, but it's a really big reframe because I 393 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,240 think people think career services is an insufficient 394 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,840 answer to the question of, of jobs and career. 395 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:16,760 And that's because it it's just a. 396 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,320 It's the backup plan for in case you didn't maximize the 397 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:23,200 experience. I think my I'm putting going to 398 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:27,880 put my PR hat on when you talk about the full experience and 399 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,520 ensuring that students know that they need to have that full 400 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,320 experience. I think that sometimes students 401 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,840 get pushed to pick the major, go to class, get the good grades 402 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:43,280 and ignore all of these sort of auxiliary programs that they 403 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,920 could really sort of lean into to help them figure out which 404 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,600 path they want to go down. Like, don't don't forget all the 405 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:51,400 little accoutrements to the recipe. 406 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,760 You know, for this to be a delicious experience, you need 407 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,680 you need all these other little things that go into it totally. 408 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:03,280 So yeah. Yeah, I, I mean, my everything 409 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,320 that I do every day is directly related to what happened in my 410 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,240 undergraduate experience, which is I was a competitive debater. 411 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,120 So I have to come up with ideas quickly. 412 00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:15,160 I have to be able to defend a position quickly. 413 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:16,800 I have to be able to research and analyze. 414 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,400 But I also a year and a half after I stepped foot on to 415 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,440 Oregon State's campus, I was elected student body president. 416 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,640 And a year and a half after that, I was appointed by the 417 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,080 governor of Oregon to the State Board of higher Education. 418 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,040 I was a non traditional student from out of state, low income 419 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:34,440 family. Like I didn't have any 420 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,880 connections, right? That place changed my life 421 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:41,280 overnight and I and I was now in charge of a nonprofit with 422 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:45,000 $1,000,000 budget and I was hiring and firing college 423 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,920 presidents at 22 years old. That does, I mean, those are not 424 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:50,480 things that happen inside the classroom. 425 00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:55,160 Do I feel like that institution gets full credit for the 426 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:56,640 transformative experience that I had? 427 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,280 No, I think we think of colleges. 428 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,720 You, you pay your tuition, you go to class and you leave. 429 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,840 And I think that there's so much more that that people are 430 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:10,200 getting out of this experience. Richard, as we were looking at 431 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,000 the University Innovation Alliance, I am a little bit 432 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,560 fascinated by the listening lab. Will you sort of introduce our 433 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,680 our listeners to what is the listening lab? 434 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:21,960 I want to get into that a little bit. 435 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:27,720 So I've shared how these are highly complex, bureaucratic, 436 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,400 large organizations. But in this case, I think of it 437 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,160 like universities are kind of like a body. 438 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:38,880 And I would, I would go to I, I go to institutions and I would 439 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,800 always ask the same question when I get on campus. 440 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,760 And that is, where do you think students bring their problems? 441 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,520 Where do problems go? Whose job is it to solve 442 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,920 problems? And if the answer is everyone, 443 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,360 but then it's no one. And that's always the answer I 444 00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:58,120 get. Or I would hear people say go to 445 00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:01,560 the the help center and I would go to the help center and I 446 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:03,960 would ask them, can you show me the list of problems the like 447 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:05,840 the last two months worth of students problems. 448 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,800 And they would just tell me, Oh, no, we don't keep a list. 449 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,720 So think about that. The one place that students are 450 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:15,640 supposed to bring the problems. We don't keep a list. 451 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,200 We just expect because we're always responding in real time. 452 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:20,840 We're always like, you know, fighting the fight. 453 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,520 And the other place I would hear was a go to the meet with your 454 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,280 advisor if you have, if you're a student with a problem. 455 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,360 And I would go through advisors and I would ask, do you feel 456 00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:31,240 like you, you get to solve problems for students? 457 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,320 And they would say, no, My job is to help them change 458 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,280 themselves and adapt to this institution. 459 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,400 It's about how they need to shift, right? 460 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:45,320 So now multiply that times over 10 years now 19 institutions. 461 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,000 It became very clear that if it's if this is a if this is a 462 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:53,040 body, where is the ear that we're going to listen and 463 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,360 understand which students are going through in real time to 464 00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:57,040 try and actually solve their problems. 465 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,120 And we don't have it universities, everyone so will 466 00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:05,120 have a focus group and that will you know, if you're in the room 467 00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:07,360 when that that you know, the insights come. 468 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,640 You're lucky that's going to go sit on a dusty shelf somewhere 469 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:15,160 with a strategic plan at we don't actually feel like we can 470 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,640 solve these problems because the politics on that one is going to 471 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,560 be difficult. Well, that's good. 472 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:21,600 That's, that's not something we can do right now. 473 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,880 And so, but these students, but students are experiencing these 474 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,600 problems in real time. I can't pay my rent. 475 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,160 I cannot get into this class. And if I don't, I'm not going to 476 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,080 graduate this year. All of these issues that 477 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,800 students are experiencing, we need to listen to them and be 478 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,160 able to change how we make decisions. 479 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,800 So we are actually combating these challenges in real time so 480 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:45,760 that our campuses can actually navigate right. 481 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,880 So in COVID students we're dealing with in real time, like 482 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,240 I don't have access to a computer, I don't have Internet 483 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,080 at my house. I, you know, that we had to 484 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:57,160 listen to them more. And so the listening lab is take 485 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,280 that idea and put it on steroids. 486 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,960 We think that you, that empathy is the first step of design. 487 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,440 You have to listen and you have to truly be earnestly listening 488 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,040 and and understanding where where they are and do it 489 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,440 consistently, not sporadically. And don't just listen to the 490 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,200 student government students or the scholarship kids who get 491 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:17,680 rolled out. You know, I was one of those who 492 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,080 like, you know, bring me out to talk to a donor and I'm going to 493 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:20,800 say a nice thing. Yeah. 494 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:22,640 No. And don't make students just 495 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,160 come in and perform their trauma either. 496 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,880 Right. So we had to build a method by 497 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,240 which you could consistently listen that honored their time. 498 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,440 So we actually it's compensated, it's regular, it's inclusive, 499 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,680 we're bringing in all student voices and backgrounds. 500 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,880 And then we're working on how you take all those insights and 501 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,720 real time try and actually we're going to do a Sprint and we're 502 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:45,880 going to solve this problem. We're going to try and actually 503 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:50,000 shift how we make decisions about what we do and the changes 504 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,480 that we're advancing. And so these institutions are 505 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:57,800 basically, we now have a a consistent practice of not just 506 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,640 listening to students, but also systematically responding and 507 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:03,480 trying to address their issues. And is that something? 508 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,520 That the listening lab. Within the specific universities 509 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,480 or UIA holds a listening lab that sort of covers a bunch of 510 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,320 universities. So the lab is central to the UIA 511 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,400 and what we do is we actually, we first had a prototype, the 512 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,160 solution. So what would it look like if 513 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,760 every university had consistent focus groups? 514 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:23,440 What was the method? How do you make sure you're 515 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,920 actually recruit the right students, that you're not just 516 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:27,640 getting the same voices, all that kind of stuff. 517 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,200 So figured it out over the first, first phase of our work. 518 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,200 And the Kreski Foundation has been so generous with this, the 519 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,480 support of this, it's a, it's a strategy shift for the sector. 520 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:43,600 And so now, once, you know, now we actually run trainings, we 521 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,080 teach module based learning. People can get skilled up. 522 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,640 We've have held national national Summit, train people 523 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,920 at, you know, many other universities. 524 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,280 We're running like hundreds of focus groups at all time, 525 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,120 constantly listing of students and then synthesizing those 526 00:27:58,120 --> 00:28:01,440 insights and basically saying, Hey, we have a problem over at 527 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,480 this university. It's not your student, but we 528 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,000 think it's relatable. So here's an example from the 529 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:11,080 listing lab, a campus in an urban center, very relatable 530 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,880 students, all the student was only getting text alerts about a 531 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,360 crime. They were only ever getting 532 00:28:18,360 --> 00:28:21,800 notified because of, because of reporting requirements that 533 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,960 universities have to say like, hey, if there's a crime that's 534 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,040 happening on campus, right? Well, the student that was only 535 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,160 they, they, that was all they ever heard was about bad things 536 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,200 that were happening on campus. So they were afraid to come to 537 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:38,440 campus because we had not realized that that's the only 538 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,840 communication they're receiving is a text alert about a crime on 539 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,600 a camp. Like, and it's such a obvious, 540 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,360 but like when you're running a complex organization that is 541 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,600 trying to change lives, like, you would totally miss that. 542 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,880 And yet it's completely relatable that all students in 543 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,080 the United States get those same kinds of texts. 544 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,560 And we don't think, hey, that's actually kind of scary. 545 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,520 And we're not contextualizing that. 546 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,120 And we're also not even thinking about those students who've 547 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:04,520 unsubscribed from everything else. 548 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,640 That's a terrible message to get about your institution. 549 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:12,320 So that's just one of the many ways that the lab has made it so 550 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,080 that the other institutions can solve their prevent this from 551 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:19,160 happening on their campus. I want to talk to you a little 552 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:23,400 bit about the amount of empathy that I feel like I'm hearing 553 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,520 that goes into this work, the vulnerability, trust, empathy, 554 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,120 and being open to sort of the big questions. 555 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:36,120 These all sound like things that I went in prepping for this 556 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:41,760 interview you have had some experience with and sort of 557 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,720 another area of your life with is the improv theatre. 558 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:50,640 And so I wanted to ask you, are there any elements of that 559 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:52,840 experience? And if you are open to sharing 560 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,320 that with us, we'd love to hear it that you sort of bring to 561 00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,760 your work at the UA. Yeah, we so we first started 562 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,000 doing this. We knew that we couldn't do this 563 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,360 work the way everything else had ever been done in higher Ed. 564 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,360 Just it wouldn't it wouldn't accomplish what we needed to. 565 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:13,040 And so I I focused on getting inspiration from other places. 566 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,960 So take took improv. I tried to you know, we looked 567 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:19,600 at Carnegie's improvement science work. 568 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,400 We looked at the Institute for Healthcare Improvement. 569 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,080 We looked at all these places, but I also where are the 570 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,600 cultures that you can make people really trust each other 571 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,760 and do real work. Create create the conditions 572 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,080 which people can actually lower their shoulders and and feel 573 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:36,920 like they can be them. They can actually share the hard 574 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:41,640 thing and improv is a fantastic place because experience and I 575 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,760 think design for those kinds of experiences because the rules of 576 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,480 improv, they translate to the work that I do. 577 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:53,520 So I used improv to initially to try and you know, just simulate 578 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,440 creativity and learn about it here. 579 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,120 Every one of our events we start with yes, and is the framework. 580 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,320 We know that you do not get the best idea by yourself. 581 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,960 You just don't. If you think that you are going 582 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:05,440 to solve everything by yourself, you are wrong. 583 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,440 So when someone is vulnerable enough to share a new baby idea, 584 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,720 it's a baby. It's not ready to be debated. 585 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,960 And so the you know what, the way you meet them where they are 586 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,880 is you say, I hear you. I see you being being generous 587 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,880 because a new idea is generous because you could keep it to 588 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,560 yourself. And yes, and I'm going to build 589 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,120 on it. I'm going to meet you in that 590 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:30,840 space of vulnerability. So yes. 591 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:32,760 And it's our first rule for everything we do. 592 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,280 There are other rules of improv that really help. 593 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:40,320 The others are focus on being interested, not interesting, 594 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:43,920 subtle. It's a subtle shift, but think 595 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,520 about like right now, if I said we're going to do an ice breaker 596 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:53,280 and everyone's going to share a fun fact, immediately you stop 597 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:57,360 listening, you turn your ears off, you literally go inside to 598 00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,560 figure out how you can be interesting. 599 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,160 You you don't pay attention to anything else, right? 600 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,160 You So that's kind of The thing is like if you focus on being 601 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,200 interesting, you are not going to be a good thought partner. 602 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,080 You are not going to be listening to people. 603 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,160 You're, you're going to be, you know, you're going to just focus 604 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,240 on yourself. So focus on being interested. 605 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,240 Think about what are the questions that will actually, 606 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:19,720 you know, what do you want to know about this person? 607 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,920 What do you think? You know, who are they get into 608 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:28,320 tapping into curiosity more. So the other rule of improv is 609 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:29,640 it's about the team. It's not about me. 610 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,640 And so anyway, all of that has been super helpful for our work. 611 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:39,840 And, and then years later, I also moved it on to stand up 612 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,400 comedy because I run a national nonprofit and not everybody 613 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:44,960 wants to talk about low income students. 614 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:49,680 So I got to find a way to make sure that all of our our work is 615 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,240 it can adapt to any audience and you know, people need to laugh 616 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,720 because the stuff can be heavy. And so it's all connected. 617 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,400 Love all of that. And one of our first 618 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,600 conversations this series was with Dean Moji, who's working on 619 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,160 the Merrill Grove campus in Detroit, and she has a 620 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,600 background as a theater teacher. I'm also a failed stage manager, 621 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,160 and so I think theater is excellent preparation for 622 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:18,040 anything you're doing. A lot of the work of the 623 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,480 alliance is also about scaling solutions, right? 624 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:23,120 We need to understand the problems. 625 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:24,160 We need to be honest about failure. 626 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:25,960 We need to have empathy. We need to do deep listening. 627 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:27,760 We lead a prototype and collaborate. 628 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:33,640 So how do you approach scale? You know, when there's a good 629 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,760 idea that works at the University of Illinois, how 630 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:42,840 should the president of ASU or Yale or Wayne State think about 631 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:44,360 that idea? What should they copy? 632 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,640 What should they learn from it? How do you think about scaling 633 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,280 and doing something that actually is specific to other 634 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:54,000 places, other campuses? Our version of scale is an idea 635 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,400 has worked in one place and we want to transport it to another 636 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,400 state, another institution, and they are going to have their own 637 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:03,920 narrative. They're going to have the story 638 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:05,560 they tell themselves about what's possible. 639 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,639 They're going to all be like, we've tried that or we can't do 640 00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:09,920 that. Did you know that? 641 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,480 That there's always a story, Got to find out what it is. 642 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,520 But that's 1/2 is, you know, how do you need to shimmy it in? 643 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,159 You got to shave off some sides. You got to adapt it. 644 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,520 Scale is not black and white. It is not cut and paste. 645 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:26,800 It is, it is riffing, it is inspiration, it is, you know, it 646 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,679 is got to be adapting. So it depends. 647 00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:32,480 So chat bots for one, we've implemented AI enabled chat 648 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,440 bots. Some campuses focused on career 649 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,159 services to apply that. Some it was the incoming student 650 00:34:37,159 --> 00:34:38,920 and it was to make it so they could produce e-mail. 651 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,000 Some it's because they have students who want to go to talk 652 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,760 to someone at 24 hours a day and we can't keep offices open that 653 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,120 you know how. But but the idea of an AI 654 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,400 enabled chatbot is the same thing. 655 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,719 It's how are you going to adapt it to solve your problem. 656 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,800 And that in that example, it was boiling it down to the most 657 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,480 essential element, which is the question of where are the 658 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,080 repetitive tasks? Where are there people getting 659 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,880 asked repetitive questions and that makes it so that those 660 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,840 individuals are not able to do some higher order thinking. 661 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,440 Let's focus on that because we can probably use this AI enabled 662 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,360 chatbot to make it so that advisors are not answering the 663 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,600 exact same question so that we're having that 24 hour day 664 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,720 offering to students so that career services is able to 665 00:35:23,720 --> 00:35:26,120 adapt. You know, So yeah, in in our 666 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:30,360 case, it's the first year or so. I thought it needed to be all 667 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,240 the same. No. 668 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,240 And and so it needs to be creative environment where 669 00:35:35,240 --> 00:35:38,280 people can riff on each other, where they can ask the really 670 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,280 dumb question, the the dumb questions, the right question. 671 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,840 You know, like, I think I'm doing the same thing as you, but 672 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,560 I don't know because this is not my job, right? 673 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:49,920 Most of these people report up to me. 674 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,560 So and they all want to make me happy and they all want to tell 675 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,720 me that they're doing a great job, but I don't actually know 676 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:57,560 if what we're doing is the best thing. 677 00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:58,920 That's what presidents experience. 678 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:00,880 Everyone they interact with works for them. 679 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,000 And so everyone's going to tell you you're doing a great job, 680 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,360 but they actually want to make sure you're doing a great job. 681 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:10,480 And so are we. Is this even like what, what 682 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:11,680 have we learned from other places? 683 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,440 So that's what the Alliance does is like the the peripheral 684 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,080 vision. They don't have it. 685 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,160 We have to fill it in because they are they, they, they have 686 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,080 such a massive job. And. 687 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:23,240 Yeah. Awesome. 688 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,280 I just have one quick question a a sort of a follow up. 689 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,440 Let's say a university president who's not currently a part of 690 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,960 the UI hears this. Is the organization open to new 691 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:36,480 membership? How does how does that sort of 692 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,960 work if a president wants to become involved? 693 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,560 So when we first announced publicly that what we wanted to 694 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,320 do, you know, a little over 10 years ago, I had 120 695 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,280 institutions reach out within 48 hours. 696 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,360 OK, So that was a problem because we had to figure out how 697 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,040 do we act like what, you know, like the whole. 698 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,440 And and we learned over time that the intimacy of this 699 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:02,360 network is, is really the value is that it's the lubricant 700 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,480 because you aren't going to you're not going to shout. 701 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,880 You're vulnerable moments in a giant theater, right? 702 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:13,400 And so I don't think we are not closed, but we don't right now. 703 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,360 We're focused on trying to actually adapt to this moment 704 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,080 and launch this next chapter for institutions who are not in the 705 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,280 UIA one. We've always believed that our 706 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:26,520 job is to act like a laboratory and build the solutions, 707 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,840 prototype it, test it, scale it, and then create playbooks and 708 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:35,200 accessible content that is actually useful for the listener 709 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:39,320 or for the reader to actually be able to solve this problem on 710 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,200 their campus. And so we believe in giving 711 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,240 everything away. So we have the UI Summit which 712 00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:48,480 people can send their teams to and will actually, you know, 713 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,120 help them connect with funders, build projects. 714 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:52,840 We give them all the tools we create. 715 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:54,080 Our playbooks are freely available. 716 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:55,560 We are not trying to sell anything in the sector. 717 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,840 We are trying to be Exhibit A of here's how you can actually do 718 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,880 this and you can actually hear the tools you need to implement 719 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:07,240 it back home. And so that's one is that 720 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,160 everything we've ever done is actually out there and it's 721 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,680 designed for the user, not for the the writer. 722 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:18,600 And we are open, but it's one per state and I already have 19 723 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,960 states. So we've already, you know, 724 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,840 where each state there is a potential campus that we would 725 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,200 add. And over time, we are adding 726 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,360 them quietly. We just added Temple University. 727 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:35,440 And I don't think this is known yet, but but perhaps by the time 728 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:37,880 this comes out, we're adding University of South Carolina 729 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:45,200 breaking news. So, yeah, yeah, we're not close, 730 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,920 but it's hard. The rooms already getting big 19 731 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,600 institutions. And so I think we could go to 732 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,680 30, but but you have to go slow over time because you have to 733 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,600 get to know the other campus. You have to build trust. 734 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,280 We have to teach them actually how to do the real work and not, 735 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,760 you know, because in this sector there are a lot of things that 736 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,840 exist that people join and it's it's a lot of talk. 737 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,920 It's we are making a big announcement and then we don't 738 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,400 do anything different. This is this is doing we, it's 739 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,320 harder. And so we we're, we're open, but 740 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,720 we're also giving everything away so that others don't need 741 00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:22,160 to join the alliance in order to change. 742 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:23,920 Awesome. Well, we'll make sure that the 743 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,000 website is in the show notes and people can take a look at all of 744 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,960 that. We want to wrap up our time with 745 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:35,760 our little tradition of doing couple rapid fire questions to 746 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,560 just get a different part of your brain. 747 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:42,600 So Bridget, on a scale of 1 to 10, how good are you at keeping 748 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:49,600 secrets? Like it's 0 from my best friend, 749 00:39:49,720 --> 00:39:52,800 but it really depends on the juiciness of the secret and like 750 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,520 what it's about, right. So if it's like super actually a 751 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,320 legit secret, I have like I mean the nuclear codes are in here. 752 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,560 I would say I'll give myself A6, you know, just average it out. 753 00:40:03,720 --> 00:40:07,440 OK, other than Innovating Together and Path Breakers, 754 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,720 what's your favorite podcast? I listen to pivot. 755 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:15,320 Oh, I love Kara Swisher. You spend a lot of time in 756 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,800 Portland, OR. What's the most stereotypically 757 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,880 Portland thing you have ever done? 758 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,120 I ride A1 wheel go away. Just stop. 759 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,920 You know, those like those like electronic devices, you see some 760 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,520 teens whiz past you and you're like, what is that? 761 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:32,680 I ride one of those and I ride it to work actually. 762 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,480 And of course, I have a dog. Everybody has a dog in Portland. 763 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,400 What's your song of the summer for 2025? 764 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,040 I keep having all these different TikTok songs that I 765 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:43,920 don't even know what they are, that are stuck in my head. 766 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,520 But I would say that one, that was just on America's Got Talent 767 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:47,840 that I think is going to go viral. 768 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:50,960 Lots of movies about the college experience. 769 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,840 Wondering if you have a favorite movie that's sort of a college 770 00:40:54,320 --> 00:41:00,240 theme slash college experience? Well, mine is unlikely, which is 771 00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:03,000 the documentary that the Kresge Foundation actually supported 772 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,440 and that covered our work. 10 out of 10 recommend. 773 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,400 Texting or talking? It depends on who it's with, 774 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:10,600 right? There's some people I don't want 775 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,120 to text me, but but I like to talk. 776 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,960 I I probably process through verbally so I will talk about. 777 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,360 What tabs are open on your computer right now? 778 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:25,040 Oh my God, like 100. Who gets to play you in the 779 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:26,760 movie about Doctor Bridget Byrne? 780 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,920 So I've spent my whole life people telling me I look like 781 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,960 Glenn Close and so she is obviously older than me, but 782 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,120 that would be the aspirational target, right? 783 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:36,680 I. Like Glenn Close, go with Glenn 784 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,160 Close. What's something that's given 785 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,400 you hope this week so far, big or small? 786 00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:45,880 I am really excited about the direction that we're moving in 787 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,840 here. We can we can convene people 788 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:53,760 around creating a future for each of our states that is just 789 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,880 better and create the kinds of conversations and exeriences 790 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,840 where we will design the kind of future that we need the. 791 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:05,960 Title of the podcast is Athbreakers. 792 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,680 The theme of the annual report is Path Breakers. 793 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:11,680 So I wanted to ask you who's a path breaker in your life? 794 00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,600 I'll go back to just acknowledging earlier that I 795 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:19,680 wouldn't be in this position for if it not to be for Michael 796 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:23,240 Crowe at Arizona State. He's someone who saw the 797 00:42:23,240 --> 00:42:25,360 potential of ASU when it was just people thought of as a 798 00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,720 party school and ignored it. And now it's the most innovative 799 00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:32,160 university in higher education and, you know, more than 100,000 800 00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,760 students. And then, you know, I run his 801 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:39,840 friend group essentially, you know, and he made it so that 802 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,640 this kind of work was normal. You know, other presidents are 803 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:46,680 innovative and they have big ideas, but we often have existed 804 00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,640 in the structure of universities that are not set up for you to 805 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,120 to change them. And so he broke the path and 806 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:56,800 made it possible for other leaders to think differently 807 00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:01,120 about the job and to change their institution, and not in 808 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,600 the ways that it always been, to not just focus on becoming more 809 00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:08,200 exclusive, but actually reframing the relationship 810 00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,520 between what universities are and what they can do for 811 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,320 society. And so he's the path breaker for 812 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,320 me. I love that Doctor Bridget 813 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,920 Burns, chief executive officer of the University Innovation 814 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,120 Alliance. Thank you so much for taking a 815 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:22,200 little bit of time today to share some of the stuff that's 816 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,120 happening. I know you've got a full day in 817 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,280 Washington, DC ahead of you, so we'll let you get out of here 818 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,360 and get off to doing that work. Just thanks so much for being 819 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,520 with us today. Thank you, Doctor Burns. 820 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:41,400 Thanks for having me. Doctor Bridget Burns is the CEO 821 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:45,200 of the UIA, the University Innovation Alliance, a multi 822 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,440 campus laboratory for student success innovation. 823 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,040 We've put the links to the UIA, as well as the documentary that 824 00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:55,360 Bridget was featured in, in our show notes. 825 00:43:56,240 --> 00:43:59,120 Path Breakers is produced by the Kresge Foundation, which was 826 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,920 founded in 1924 with a mission to promote human progress. 827 00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:06,640 Today, Kresge works to expand equity and opportunity in 828 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:10,240 America's cities. Read the stories of all of this 829 00:44:10,240 --> 00:44:13,320 season's Path Breakers and learn about our grant making and 830 00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,840 social investing work in Detroit, Memphis, New Orleans, 831 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:20,440 Fresno, and cities across the US at kresge.org. 832 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,520 To hear more stories from the Path Breakers, be sure to 833 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,680 subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. 834 00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,640 Our producers are Juliet Hindley and Zach Rosen. 835 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:32,760 Managing editor is Krista Yankee. 836 00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,520 Our show art is by Rochelle Baker and Creative direction by 837 00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,960 Alejandro Herrera. Special thank you to my 838 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,200 colleagues on the education program for lifting up Doctor 839 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:47,840 Burns and speaking her name as a truly phenomenal path breaker. 840 00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:49,560 We'll talk to you all next week.