1 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,560 Welcome everybody to a special episode of Path Breakers, a 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:10,600 podcast from the Kresge Foundation about what it takes 3 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:14,160 to cut through the noise and red tape and all of the obstacles to 4 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:16,800 progress. I'm Tracy Pearson and I work on 5 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:19,320 the communications team at the Kresge Foundation. 6 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,280 Hey Tracy, I'm Jamie Bennett, and I work at the intersections 7 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:24,600 of arts, culture, and equitable community development. 8 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,160 On this season of Path Breakers, we've been talking with 9 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,160 community leaders who are forging new ways forward and 10 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,720 solving urgent problems and creating new paradigms. 11 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:35,040 That's right. We've talked with people who 12 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:39,280 work in community organizing, finance and economics, arts and 13 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:42,640 culture, as well as public health, higher education, and 14 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:44,680 even environmental justice and public policy. 15 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:47,880 All of these folks are breaking paths in their communities 16 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,760 across the country. Places like Memphis, TN. 17 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,560 Fresno, CA as well as Oakland, CA. 18 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,080 New Orleans and Detroit. New York City. 19 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,400 Springfield, MA. Flint, MI. 20 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:03,080 LA, Atlanta, and today we're right here in my hometown of 21 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,040 metro Detroit. That's right, we're close to 22 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,200 Tracy's hometown. We're actually in Troy, MI 23 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:12,480 today, which is the current home of the Kresge Foundation topic 24 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:14,560 we're going to come back to at the end of the episode. 25 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,000 But Tracy, we're here today to talk with someone who, like, 26 00:01:18,320 --> 00:01:20,360 breaks paths for the Path Breakers. 27 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:24,600 Yes, it is a pleasure to welcome my boss and the Kresge 28 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,240 Foundation President and CEO, RIP Robson. 29 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,920 He has been with the Foundation for almost or maybe more than 20 30 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:31,760 years now. RIP. 31 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,240 Almost, almost. 20 years. That's right. 32 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:36,760 Well, welcome, RIP, and thank you so much for being with us 33 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:38,440 today. Yes, thank you for being with us 34 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,480 on our special episode. It's a pleasure to be with you. 35 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:43,880 So today we're going to talk with you. 36 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,000 We thought we'd sort of start out by getting your take on the 37 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,840 path Breakers have Tracy and I've been doing this season. 38 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:51,640 What are the great stories that have been told? 39 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,480 We want to hear a little bit about your own journey, sort of 40 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:57,360 the ways, some of the ways that you've broken paths yourself. 41 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,680 And then we do, Spoiler Alert, have a big announcement coming 42 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:02,720 up at the end of the episode, which RIP is going to share 43 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:04,840 with. Us and RIP will not get out of 44 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:09,400 our wonderful, entertaining and hard hitting lightning round of 45 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:11,800 questions. So RIP, over the season we've 46 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:14,920 featured many different path Breakers who are creating all 47 00:02:14,920 --> 00:02:17,960 sorts of bold and creative unique change across the 48 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,800 country. They're taking risks. 49 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:25,120 They are letting leaders follow their instincts for change and 50 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,720 being guided by community input. And so one of the things that I 51 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,880 wanted to ask you as the CEO of Kresge, you direct a pretty 52 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,680 significant amount of money, something like six, $160 53 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:36,560 million. Every year. 54 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:40,720 Every year in grants, what are you taking into consideration 55 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,560 when you make those decisions about the types of risk you 56 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,120 invest in, the types of leaders you invest in? 57 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,280 What are some of the things that the team collectively talks 58 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,240 about? Well, you've ticked off a lot of 59 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,120 them, Tracy. I mean, it is, it is courage, it 60 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,560 is integrity, it's values alignment with community, it's 61 00:02:59,640 --> 00:03:02,560 predisposition to make sure that the community's voice is 62 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,680 reflected in in the work everyday, not just occasionally. 63 00:03:06,640 --> 00:03:10,280 But one of the things I've been struck by as the podcasts have 64 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,480 rolled out is the extent to which each of these path 65 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,480 Breakers has had a relationship with another sector of 66 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,400 community. Some are pushing against or 67 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,440 working with the public sector. Some are trying to introduce the 68 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:24,920 private sector in different ways. 69 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:29,040 Some are trying to mobilize the nonprofit, the civil society 70 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:33,400 actors, in a very different way. And that I think in some ways is 71 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,920 a thread through all of them that they are trying to 72 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:42,920 understand that everything we do at community is interrelated and 73 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,320 there are complex sort of systems that sort of surround 74 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,120 everything we do. And so just working in one 75 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:49,520 dimension doesn't work very well. 76 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,120 And so each of our path Breakers, I think, has 77 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,840 understood that in very different ways and has tried to 78 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,440 stitch together a different kind of way of working that sort of 79 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,680 breaks through barriers that engages brought a much broader 80 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,360 sector of community than maybe just the people they serve 81 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:06,920 directly. But it's a, it's a fascinating 82 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,280 sort of fabric weaving exercise that these path Breakers do. 83 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,160 It's not just sort of hunkering down and doing one thing all the 84 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:15,880 time the same way. It's really trying to make sure 85 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,560 that the totality of of a community is recognized in the 86 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,280 kind of solutions that these folks are going at. 87 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,240 Yeah. I mean, $160 million a year, 88 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,840 almost 20 years, that's an awful lot of grants. 89 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:32,560 And when you think back across all of those, is there one that 90 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:36,560 you sort of stands out to you as one that was exactly the right 91 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,080 money at exactly the right time, that sort of blew up in a way 92 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,400 that even you and the program officers didn't expect? 93 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,840 Well, because I've known Jamie for so long, I'm not going to 94 00:04:46,840 --> 00:04:49,120 answer that question quite that way. 95 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:51,880 I will it. I know it's fine. 96 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:52,520 It's. Fine. 97 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,680 But I do think that one of the things that has been so 98 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,120 remarkable over the course of the 20 years that I've been in 99 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:02,440 Christie is the extent to which philanthropy has changed. 100 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,800 In one dimension, it's moving an enormous number of dollars out 101 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,840 the door each day to to extraordinary folks. 102 00:05:10,840 --> 00:05:14,320 But in another way, it's trying to understand what our roles and 103 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,560 our responsibilities are in the broader civil society. 104 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:22,160 And so whether it's making a grant to a nonprofit in Fresno 105 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,320 or whether it's commissioning research in San Antonio, or 106 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,320 whether it's pulling together a network of Human Services 107 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:32,280 providers across the country, every time you invest in people, 108 00:05:32,280 --> 00:05:36,080 you're surprised. And so in some ways this kind of 109 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,800 strategic, which is an overused term, but it's sort of 110 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:44,640 intentional, purposeful, long term grant making is inviting 111 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,280 surprise and inviting something that you didn't expect. 112 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,920 But to be a little bit more specific, one of the most 113 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:56,280 obvious examples is the Marygrove project that Dean Moji 114 00:05:56,280 --> 00:05:58,760 talked about in her podcast. But let me not use that one 115 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,960 because it it it was truly extraordinary in both its 116 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,560 conception and its execution. But the one I'd I'd point to is 117 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:08,080 something called Hope Starts here. 118 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:13,560 This was an effort we began A decade ago to try to take their 119 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,320 early steps in figuring out how to build an early childhood 120 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,080 development system that was a little bit more coherent, a 121 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:21,920 little bit more well resourced and a little bit more impactful 122 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,160 in the city of Detroit. So many kids in the city of 123 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:28,920 Detroit enter kindergarten not prepared to to go on, whether 124 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:30,560 that's emotionally or developmentally or 125 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,680 intellectually or otherwise. And so we joined with the 126 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,480 Kellogg Foundation to try to figure out what is it that the 127 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,600 community believes could be done that would augment the 128 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,320 opportunities for low income kids in the city of Detroit to 129 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:46,320 to get ready for kindergarten, but then put together a suite of 130 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,760 supports that would enable those kids to actually be successful 131 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,600 once they got to kindergarten. And so we spent a whole year 132 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,400 talking to community, trying to understand from parents or 133 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:59,040 providers or kids themselves what they might think would be 134 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,600 most appropriate, and then stitched together a framework. 135 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,720 So far, so good sort of classic philanthropic intention. 136 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,760 But then what happened is that we were able to grab private 137 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,000 sector folks, public sector folks, nonprofit sector folks, 138 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,880 and put together a consortium of folks who could actually create 139 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,840 sort of a delivery mechanism into the kind of aspiration that 140 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:20,600 we had identified at a community level. 141 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,080 So all of a sudden it became really important that the 142 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:27,480 facilities were healthful, they were safe, they were beautiful. 143 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,040 All of a sudden, it became important that the parents could 144 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:31,760 talk to one another and compare notes. 145 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,200 All of a sudden, it became really critical that the 146 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,600 providers could band together and work collectively for higher 147 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:39,880 wages. All of a sudden, we were able to 148 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,120 identify a policy agenda that might actually, actually push up 149 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,120 to the state when they had excess revenues that they could 150 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,920 then push back down to the early childhood system. 151 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:53,160 And in fact, 10 years on, that has been an enormous success. 152 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:57,480 There's still an enormous gap of opportunity and young people in 153 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:01,280 the city of Detroit, but we have made very concrete strides in 154 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,200 helping young people get ready for kindergarten and beyond. 155 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,040 I think, Tracy, if we sort of think back across all the 156 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:12,840 episodes, children is maybe the one topic that's come up in 157 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:14,600 every single conversation we've had. 158 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:16,640 That's true. There's that sort of Masai 159 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,200 wisdom that when 2 warriors greet each other, they sort of 160 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:20,840 ask how are the children? How are the children? 161 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:22,640 Because if the children are doing all right. 162 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,840 The society is doing all right, and if they're not doing all 163 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,880 right, we have work to do. Well, and Wendy Jackson of our 164 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:33,320 staff, who directs our Detroit work, has often said that at the 165 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:36,159 end of the day, the litmus of whether we've done our job well 166 00:08:36,159 --> 00:08:38,840 or poorly is whether the children are better off. 167 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,159 It's wonderful having a young person in the city of Detroit 168 00:08:42,159 --> 00:08:45,960 and all of the things you all have done, just not just with 169 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,080 hope starts here, but some of the our colleagues who who have 170 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,480 helped sort of implement different programs throughout 171 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,640 the city and neighborhoods. I want to ask you what do you 172 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:59,640 think is driving the change and how we approach the grant 173 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,160 dollars in the way in which we sort of allocate them and give 174 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:09,080 them out within cities? Maybe Tracy, it's a little bit 175 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:13,080 what I was describing earlier is it rather than sort of thinking 176 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:18,000 about grant dollars in sort of a siloed 1 dimensional way, I 177 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:22,400 think we are increasingly asking how an early childhood grant 178 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:26,120 matches up with a transportation grant, matches up with a housing 179 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,360 grant, matches up with an open space grant. 180 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,960 Because essentially what you want to do is grab the web hole. 181 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,200 You want to make sure that these places in Detroit are places 182 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,760 that parents and kids and elders want to live. 183 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:40,480 They want to make a life there. And you can't just do it in one 184 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:42,960 dimension. You've got to do it across 185 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:44,880 multiple dimensions. And so one of the the big 186 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,800 changes at Kresge over the last 10 or 15 years is the extent to 187 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:52,400 which we have each of our programs talk to one another 188 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:54,280 about whether they can't do joint grant making. 189 00:09:54,560 --> 00:09:56,920 Can you get the arts and culture team to actually partner with 190 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,240 the Human Services team? Can you get the environment team 191 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,680 to partner with the health team? And I would say that probably 30 192 00:10:02,680 --> 00:10:06,840 to 40% of our grants are now multi programmatic grants, just 193 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,520 recognizing the reality that people don't live their lives in 194 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:11,720 one dimension, they live their lives in complicated 195 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:12,360 relationship. So. 196 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,760 True. And you know, philanthropy is a 197 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:18,720 little bit of a niche thing, right? 198 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,800 I don't think 6 year old RIP raps and dreamed he would grow 199 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,000 up one day to, you know, lead a social impact investing in grant 200 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:26,800 making program in America's cities. 201 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:27,920 Yeah, it's possible. Well. 202 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:29,560 It's. Possible. 203 00:10:29,560 --> 00:10:31,800 I'm guessing you wanted to be a firefighter. 204 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:33,960 You know What did you want? To be well, it would it 205 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,240 explained why I wore a suit when I was five years old that's. 206 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,120 Right, right. That's for your birth. 207 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:39,840 Tie that you were, that you were aware. 208 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,000 But we've spent some time with each of the path Breakers 209 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,240 talking about sort of their own origin story. 210 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,920 How did they arrive at doing the work they wanted to do? 211 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:52,600 And, you know, you are the son of an architect who went to law 212 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:54,920 school, worked in environmental justice. 213 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,480 We're deputy mayor of Minneapolis. 214 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,560 We're a mayoral candidate for Minneapolis. 215 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,920 But you ended up as President McKnight Foundation in Minnesota 216 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,080 and now President the Kresge Foundation. 217 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:12,440 When you sort of look back over that life, how, how did that 218 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:14,960 path come to be? How did you end up here, sitting 219 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,120 in this chair? Well, you know, in some ways, 220 00:11:18,680 --> 00:11:21,480 Jamie, it was sort of less of a path than sort of a creative 221 00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:25,800 serendipity. It was a series of experiences 222 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:30,040 and exposures and adjacencies to leadership that helped me 223 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:34,680 realize that in order to make social change, you need all of 224 00:11:34,680 --> 00:11:36,720 the sectors pulling in the same direction. 225 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,000 And I thought, well, that's hard for the public sector to do, 226 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:41,560 right? It has an election certificate. 227 00:11:41,560 --> 00:11:43,840 It has certain responsibilities back to community. 228 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,400 It's sort of circumscribed in its its realm of motion. 229 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,240 It's hard for the private sector to do. 230 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:54,200 They have quarterly earnings reports they've got to meet and 231 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,840 sort of short term values in in many cases hard for the academic 232 00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:59,400 community, hard for the journalistic community. 233 00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:02,920 And one of the things that was sort of interesting about my 234 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,480 increasing exposure to philanthropy was the extent to 235 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:06,880 which it could sort of shape shift. 236 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,920 Sometimes it would behave a little bit like the public 237 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,880 sector, and it would use lots of different tools to advance 238 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,720 social change. Sometimes it looked a little bit 239 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:19,400 more like an academic sector. So taking this Longview patient 240 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:23,960 capital, waiting forever to get stuff done too long so often 241 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:29,880 sometimes it it acted much more like the nonprofit sector, just 242 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,920 making sure its focus was on issues of equity and social 243 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:37,000 justice. And philanthropy has this rare 244 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,760 privilege of being able to sort of mix and match when the 245 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,520 circumstance requires. And sometimes we do act like a, 246 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,840 a different sector, But when you actually push all of that 247 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:50,240 together, it becomes a a very unusual sector if properly 248 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:54,600 deployed, because you can use capital, you can use convening, 249 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,800 you can take risks, you can take a long term view, you can take a 250 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,760 short term responsive view. And so I think after coming out 251 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:05,640 of public and private and nonprofit work, it just seemed 252 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:09,200 to me that the opportunities to pull all of that into a 253 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,280 different methodology of social change had real promise. 254 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:14,920 And that's what attracted me first to McKnight and then to 255 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,480 Kresge. And another theme that we've had 256 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:19,960 throughout sort of our conversations this season has 257 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:25,880 been unusual approaches to work. And there have been many 258 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,640 instances in these conversations where I am talking to someone or 259 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:31,760 interviewing someone. And I think to myself, how would 260 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:32,960 RIP draw this out in the picture? 261 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,120 Because there are many CE OS who are in the boardroom, they're in 262 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:37,720 their suits, they look wonderful and lovely. 263 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,120 But if you look over at RIP, sometimes when we're in big 264 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:41,480 meetings, he. He has. 265 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:47,040 He has his pen and you see him sort of moving this this, you 266 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:51,440 know, furiously and these creating sort of a masterpiece 267 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,080 based on what's sort of going on the dialogue in the room. 268 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,360 And I just wanted to ask you, how did you come to find 269 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,240 yourself in a place where you could sort of hear complex 270 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,760 issues and scenarios and then you take them to paper? 271 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,000 Well, it's interesting you would phrase it that way because some 272 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:12,120 some would ask why do you draw? And I think that misses the 273 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,680 point you just made. It's trying to take complexity 274 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:21,280 and distilling it into a form that can sort of serve as a 275 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,480 point of departure for a, a different kind of conversation. 276 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:29,480 You know, the, the actual origin story for this is, is pretty 277 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,560 clear. I, I have absolutely no artistic 278 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,240 talent. I remember coming home in 7th 279 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:36,680 grade. No, no, no. 280 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:38,000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait, wait. 281 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,560 I came home in 7th grade with the, the, my sort of master 282 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:45,600 class in, in pencil drawing, which was a Turkey. 283 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,600 And my father took one look at it and he walked out of the 284 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,360 room. And this is one of the great 285 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,760 draftsman, architectural draftsman of the 20th century. 286 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,560 So I knew my, my future was not in that direction. 287 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,280 And so I really, I never did learn to draw. 288 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:03,560 I was never trained to draw, but I found myself one day in a 289 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:07,200 meeting at the Casey Foundation and the and the conversation was 290 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:12,480 just incoherently complex. It was 40 academics who 291 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:16,200 specialized in kids and kids policy trying to help the Casey 292 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,200 Foundation figure out what would how they could sort of retool 293 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,600 their programs to meet the full challenges of kids. 294 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:26,160 Any rate, after about 3 hours, I just got lost in the Peacock of 295 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:29,920 of the room, just people starting all of their knowledge. 296 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:31,920 And so I started doing this little sketch. 297 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:38,360 And after about 3 or 4 minutes of this shape kind of began to 298 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,320 emerge about how I thought the major themes were lining up and 299 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,760 the relationship among them. And Ralph Smith was then the 300 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,080 vice president of the Casey Foundation was running the 301 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,200 meeting, looked over and he said, what is that? 302 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,280 And I said, well, I just real, if I'm not, I'm not just 303 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:54,000 doodling. I'm just trying to make sense of 304 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:58,000 this conversation. And he, and he raised his hand 305 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,240 and he said, all right, we're going to take a break for 10 306 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:04,400 minutes. And I thought he's going to yell 307 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,640 at me for not paying enough attention to his meeting. 308 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:11,040 So he took the piece of paper and he went and made 40 copies 309 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,600 and brought it back and handed this piece of paper out, the 310 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:18,720 sort of schematic piece out. And the people around the room 311 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,520 were so offended. I mean, these were serious 312 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,480 academics and the idea that you could reduce their complexity to 313 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,840 this sort of simple diagram was blasphemy. 314 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,680 So anyway, the the meeting proceeded and it kind of it kind 315 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:36,480 of teed off of the drawing. And so Casey actually asked me 316 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,320 to continue doing this for them. They were developing a new 317 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:43,080 strategy and they wanted a way to sort of pictorially represent 318 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,160 it in a way that wasn't just all 40 page PowerPoints. 319 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,320 And so slowly, slowly, slowly, I began sort of drawing more and 320 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,360 more. And I had an enormous good 321 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,600 advantage of being at something called the Design Center in 322 00:16:56,040 --> 00:17:02,440 Minneapolis, which was run by a really gifted illustrator drawer 323 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:04,480 conceptualizer guy named Bill Morris. 324 00:17:04,839 --> 00:17:07,800 And Morris took this drawing that I had done for a Smith back 325 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,640 and he said, what is this? And I thought, here we go again. 326 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,560 And he said, well, let me, let me just show you a couple of 327 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:16,040 things that might make this more interesting. 328 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,839 And so he started giving me these little pointers about how 329 00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:22,240 you can do clouds, or you can do arrows, or you can do 3 330 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,440 dimensional cross sections or whatever it was. 331 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,400 Any rate, make a very Long story short. 332 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,440 That began a process in which I increasingly felt comfortable 333 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:37,520 trying to take complex ideas and complex conversations and make 334 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:39,760 them a little bit more accessible, a little bit more 335 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,440 legible. And sometimes it works, 336 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:44,680 sometimes it doesn't. They're almost never end 337 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,000 products in themselves. They are most always an 338 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,800 opportunity for people to look at a piece of paper and sort of 339 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,760 locate themselves in it or not, and then that becomes a point of 340 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:56,720 departure for a different kind of conversation. 341 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,840 Amazing. Before we I, I'm sure we want to 342 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:02,160 plug the book right? The RIP raps and drawn to 343 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,480 challenge book very important. But before we do that, can we go 344 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,880 back to your dad for a second? You and I once had a 345 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,600 conversation with your dad, who was the architect Ralph Rapsom, 346 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,440 and you said to me once that you thought he was a perfectly good 347 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,240 architect. You thought he was an 348 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:22,400 exceptional architect teacher, a teacher of other architects, but 349 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,680 you said he revolutionized the way that architects often did 350 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:27,200 renderings. Will you? 351 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:28,200 Do you remember what I'm talking? 352 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:29,480 Will you, will you tell this bit? 353 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,280 Because I think this is helpful insight. 354 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:41,320 My father came of age in the 1930s at Cranbrook where he had 355 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:48,920 of art and he had this incredible array of colleagues, 356 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:53,560 including Uriel Cernan and and others who who sort of helped 357 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:58,680 define the mid modern era. And they were all brilliant in 358 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,320 in their own way. But what dad was really good at 359 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:05,840 was drawing. And when he began his 360 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,120 architectural career, he started in a very conventional way with 361 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:12,360 a bunch of conventional firms and drew just like the rest of 362 00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:14,440 them. He sort of drew in section and, 363 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,040 and what I think was expected at the time. 364 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,400 But he increasingly, as he developed his own style, started 365 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,120 populating his drawings with people. 366 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,520 And he took took drawings away from the sort of the frontal 367 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:30,520 section view and would take the camera up and look down or take 368 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,200 the camera sideways and look in and would show a woman hanging 369 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:38,240 clothes or a child playing on the grass or how people would 370 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:43,320 actually move through space. And I'll never forget, Jamie, I 371 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,600 was having a conversation with the great architect Cesar Pelle. 372 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,720 And Pelle taught first year architecture at Yale. 373 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,440 I was the Dean of the Yale School of Architecture. 374 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:57,080 And he, he said to me, your father, you know, revolutionized 375 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:58,480 drawing. And I said, really? 376 00:19:58,480 --> 00:19:59,720 And he said, yeah, he is the first. 377 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,200 Person to really humanize architecture. 378 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,600 Every, all of the great architects, even Frank Lloyd 379 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:06,960 Wright, never put people in their drawings, and they 380 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,320 certainly never put people using the space in their drawings. 381 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,840 And your father did both. And he said, so I actually 382 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,440 consider his drawing of something called the Case Study 383 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,200 House, which was a 1940s project in California, to be the single 384 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,760 most important architectural drawing of the 20th century. 385 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:25,720 And I said, well, you say that to all the guys. 386 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,120 And he said, he said, he said, no, really. 387 00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:30,960 He said when you look at you, when you look back at that time, 388 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:36,360 this was so unusual and it was so idiosyncratic that you always 389 00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:38,840 knew that it was sort of a Ralph Rapson drawing and a Ralph 390 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:43,560 Rapson project, He said since then, others have copied it and 391 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,080 computers have populated drawings now with people for 392 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,320 quite a long time, but for a long time that was a highly 393 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,120 unusual act. That's amazing because it's a 394 00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:54,840 standard now. Yes, it's, yeah, hard to 395 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,000 imagine, hard to imagine doing an architectural scheme now 396 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,200 without that in it. But in 1935, that was not what 397 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,400 was done. OK, very interesting. 398 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,240 Jamie first shared a little bit of that story with me and I was 399 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:08,920 like, how come Rick never told us this? 400 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,240 Is so. Interesting. 401 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,040 So thank you. Well, it's because none of that 402 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:17,280 talent was passed down. I wish I could claim some of it. 403 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:18,360 Right. Did you? 404 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,800 I I've never asked you this. What did you take from your 405 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:21,920 mother? The librarian. 406 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:26,200 Oh, thank you for asking. My mother was a librarian of the 407 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,240 Children's Collection at the University of Minnesota, The 408 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,440 Kerlin Collection, and the Kerlin Collection was known for 409 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,800 its books of children's illustration. 410 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,040 Also drawings. Also drawings. 411 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,800 And so she would bring me into her workplace and I would climb 412 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,200 up the stairs to the fifth floor, wherever it was. 413 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:43,880 And the minute you open the door, there were just these 414 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,120 stacks of books everywhere. And there were these drawers 415 00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:49,640 that you could pull out and see the original drawings for Peter 416 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,920 Rabbit or something else. And it was just magical. 417 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:58,120 And so when, when she began collecting her own very small 418 00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:01,800 collection of books, it, it was sort of the classics, but it was 419 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,480 much more books in which the drawings were really 420 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,920 extraordinary. And I, I just, I probably 421 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,480 learned to look at drawings before I learned to read. 422 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,160 I probably learned to read by the time I was in 8th grade. 423 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:18,120 But the, but the drawings had really sort of stuck with me 424 00:22:18,120 --> 00:22:22,080 from a very early age. And again, it, it's the, the 425 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:27,960 sort of the ability in a way that sort of takes you out of a 426 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:29,720 paper reality into something else. 427 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,720 It sort of triggers a, a part of your brain that thinks about 428 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:38,360 ideas and stories and possibilities very differently. 429 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,640 My drawings clearly don't do that. 430 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,880 But I think there was sort of this impulse that there is more 431 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,280 beyond the just the, the written word. 432 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,560 There's more beyond the spoken word as a way of communicating 433 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,240 ideas to people. There's what you did, a drawing. 434 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,400 I can't remember the context, but you sort of drew the art and 435 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,680 culture ecosystem in Detroit and it involves sort of the Wilds, 436 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,440 the stuff that happens naturally there was like a greenhouse 437 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,000 element. What is the stuff that 438 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,240 philanthropy wants to make sure is nurtured there? 439 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:10,240 You know, I get, but I, it's something I actually Omari Rush, 440 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,800 who runs Culture Source here in southeastern Detroit, he and I 441 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,240 had a conversation. He's just published something 442 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,920 that's sort of the art and culture ecosystem based on a 443 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,920 conversation he and I had, which was actually based on my memory 444 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,840 of that drawing, which I don't know that that drawing made the 445 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,880 RIP Raps and Ronda Challenge book, but there's some other 446 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,000 great things. That I knew Omari was doing it, 447 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,200 so I didn't dare put it in. That's great. 448 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,800 So Tracy, I think it's time for you to earn your Kresge salary 449 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:42,080 on the communications team. It's a big Newsday at Kresge. 450 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,720 What's going on? It's an amazing Newsday and I'm 451 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,800 so excited for today. We have some big news and I 452 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:53,760 think that as a Detroiter, I, I probably am especially excited. 453 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,440 We have some news to share with and I will I will let you go 454 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,160 ahead and share that news with with all of the folks that are 455 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:06,240 listening. We have for a long time been 456 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:10,000 located in Troy, MI, just down the street from where we're 457 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,360 recording. And it's a lovely facility and 458 00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:16,440 it's a lovely town, but it's not Detroit. 459 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,320 And as you said earlier, Tracy, Detroit is our home. 460 00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:20,920 It is always been the Kreski home. 461 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,560 It's where Kreski was founded and where it, it grew up and 462 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,440 flexed its muscles and became Kmart. 463 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,720 I mean, the, the K and Kmart is Kreski. 464 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:34,240 It was essentially as the, the five and dime store business got 465 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,000 bigger and bigger and bigger and they sort of morphed into the 466 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,200 sort of these department stores, Kmart's. 467 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,200 And matter of fact, it was when Kmart got so big that 468 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,360 essentially the family got out of the business because it was 469 00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:46,920 no longer really a family business. 470 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:51,000 And so they sold their interests and helped capitalize the trust 471 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,280 that is the Kresge Foundation. But we have been in Troy for a 472 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,560 very long time and it's time to come home. 473 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:04,280 And so we announced today that we are moving into Detroit, into 474 00:25:04,360 --> 00:25:06,240 the the northwest quadrant of the city. 475 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,120 And that is only a very small part of the news because the 476 00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:15,960 real news is that this is a partial investment in a much 477 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:21,320 larger suite of investments that are intended to help continue 478 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,840 the revitalization of the Live 6 neighborhood, the Livernois Six 479 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,400 Mile neighborhood in northwest Detroit. 480 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,600 And so in in some ways, it's the announcement is sort of like a 481 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,760 set of Russian dolls. You know, with the at the center 482 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,600 is Kreski's decision to move into a new headquarters and 483 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,960 build a new headquarters. It'll be on the Marygrove campus 484 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,520 where we already have a substantial investment 485 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:45,120 surrounding that. And the next doll out is a reek 486 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,120 imagined and reconfigured campus that sort of draws together all 487 00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:52,920 of the extraordinary activity on Marygrove and invites the 488 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,720 community in in a very different way to think about this space, 489 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,440 this public space. And then the the largest of the 490 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,720 dolls is the broader neighborhood strategy where 491 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,360 we're going to be investing in housing programs, commercial 492 00:26:04,360 --> 00:26:08,120 corridor revitalization programs, open space programs, 493 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,920 community engagement programs. And all told, we think this is 494 00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:17,240 probably the single largest commitment that has ever been 495 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,320 made to a neighborhood in the city of Detroit and probably one 496 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,640 of the larger commitments that's been made anywhere in the United 497 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,800 States. But it's not so much the 498 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,440 magnitude, but the sort of the multi dimensionality of it. 499 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,640 It's it's sort of building from the inside out and inviting the 500 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,200 outside in. And I think it's important to 501 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:39,440 say that if this were just an office relocation decision, it 502 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,600 would be interesting, but not particularly. 503 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,720 But I think because of the way we're trying to integrate the 504 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,680 facility into the broader campus and the campus into the broader 505 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,600 community and the community into the broader city, I think it 506 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,600 will have enormous repercussions over the long term. 507 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,840 And it's certainly signals our intention to be part of the 508 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,440 Detroit community for the next 5000 years. 509 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,920 Amazing. And that brings to mind what? 510 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:06,800 So what's the what does this represent in terms of the 511 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:13,880 trajectory of the foundation? Well, it's, it's tempting on one 512 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,560 hand to think that this represents a significant 513 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:21,120 departure from past practice. And to the extent that we're 514 00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:25,160 actually moving 120 people down to Detroit and working with the 515 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:30,120 the Marygrove community to make a more integrative holistic 516 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,000 community asset work, it is a departure. 517 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,680 But in many ways it's not a departure. 518 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,760 We have been investing significantly in Detroit since 519 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,760 the moment I arrived. And early on, it was sort of 520 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,920 tempting to say that a lot of that investment went into 521 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,920 downtown along the Woodward corridor and in the central 522 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:50,680 business district and along the riverfront. 523 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,040 But I think it misses the point that we've always invested in 524 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,360 the neighborhoods of Detroit. We've always thought that you 525 00:27:57,360 --> 00:28:01,120 can't do just a central business district revitalization of a of 526 00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:03,360 a city. It needs to be done in balance 527 00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:05,720 with a broader set of community investment. 528 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,440 So whether it's housing or early childhood development or 529 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,200 commercial corridor revitalization or open space 530 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,840 protection or education, all of those things occur in 531 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,360 neighborhoods. And so we can stabilize the tax 532 00:28:18,360 --> 00:28:20,840 base of downtown Detroit. And I think we've contributed 533 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,040 significantly to that through the queue line and through 534 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,520 quarter revitalization funds and the like. 535 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,120 But it always had to be done hand in glove with a 536 00:28:28,120 --> 00:28:31,080 neighborhood strategy. And so in that way, I think it's 537 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,720 not so much a departure, it's simply a, a fortification, an 538 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,280 acceleration, an intensification, but it's not 539 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,720 different. And Tracy, you've got a special 540 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,640 interest in this project because you live not that far from Mary 541 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,280 Grove Camp. You know, this is news. 542 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,000 It's just breaking today. How's the neighborhood going to 543 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:51,680 react? What are their hopes, dreams and 544 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:56,600 fears? Well, I, I, I, I grew up not 545 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,000 even 10 minutes from the neighborhood. 546 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,600 I went to the school on the campus, what is now the Mary 547 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,880 Grove Elementary School, used to be Bates Academy, used to be, it 548 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,600 was a Catholic High School. So I went there, My mother 549 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,040 taught there, my aunt taught there. 550 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:10,880 So I spent a lot of time on the campus. 551 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,160 And I told Dean Moji that when you walk on campus, it feels 552 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,320 like a warm hug. The, the space feels like love. 553 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,000 It feels like care. And I'm really excited to see 554 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,960 the thoughtful way in which Kresge will come onto that 555 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,960 campus. And it it's just also keeping in 556 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,360 mind that, and RIP can attest to this. 557 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:32,960 Our presence is but a small percentage on the campus. 558 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,200 There's life there already. There is there's a lot happening 559 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:41,200 there already. And so just just how thoroughly 560 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,520 and mindfully and with love, as Wendy Jackson, who runs the 561 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,200 program to in Detroit, says, we we do things with love. 562 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,440 And so if we're coming onto a space that already feels like a 563 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,480 hug and it feels like love is moving in the air and it's good, 564 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,200 people should be excited about it, Yeah. 565 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,160 That's a that's a high standard, but it's the only standard, 566 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,800 right? We simply have to respect and 567 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,360 honor all that has gone before and then all that will come 568 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,000 later and we're going to be good neighbors. 569 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,040 One of the things that we are spending a lot of time doing is 570 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,760 having conversations with neighborhood leaders, 571 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:21,640 neighborhood representatives, not to have them go through one 572 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,280 more planning exercise, but just to make sure that the kinds of 573 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,240 investments, the kinds of initiatives, the kinds of 574 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,240 engagements that we have on Marygrove are the kinds of 575 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,000 things that add to the neighborhood. 576 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,320 They don't, they don't distract from other work. 577 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:40,400 They don't push people aside. And, and I think we need to be 578 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,080 very, very careful that everything we do is something 579 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,560 that that builds community. It doesn't sort of fragment 580 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:47,440 community further. Yeah. 581 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,320 That's yeah, I think it's really exciting and it's, and it's in 582 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,120 many ways, it's sort of a national philanthropy at its 583 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,280 best because you're building on local momentum, you're working 584 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,240 with local leaders. You have some pretty big minds 585 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,600 that are both inside Detroit and outside Detroit. 586 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:06,760 They're going to work with you all on this. 587 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,960 And so I think this is how long is it? 588 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,560 When is when's the ribbon cutting going to be? 589 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:16,600 How long a project is this? I I laugh because our project 590 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,920 team tells us that it'll probably be three years and I 591 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:24,880 tell them no, it will be two. We need to, we need to fire on 592 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,600 all cylinders. And I think because we have such 593 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,360 a coalition of the willing going on, whether it's the Marygrove 594 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,200 Conservancy, whether it's the Live 6 Alliance, whether it's 595 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,600 the neighborhood block club leaders, everyone is excited 596 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,760 that I've spoken with about the project. 597 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:44,040 And so I I think there will probably be bumps in the road, 598 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,640 things that we won't get quite right, but I think everyone 599 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:48,760 brings to the project enormous goodwill. 600 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,280 And I think when you have enormous goodwill in community, 601 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:52,680 projects move more quickly. What? 602 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,080 Do you think is there an office pool yet on what what it's going 603 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,000 to get is 2 years or the project? 604 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,240 Gets us two years. That means my commute gets cut 605 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,680 down from like 24 minutes to 7 minutes. 606 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,280 So I am all on the RIP bandwagon of two years. 607 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,120 Excellent, excellent. You know what's so funny too, 608 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,960 Jamie, is that when a number of years ago, when the Marygrove 609 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,680 campus was at risk of of being shuttered and Dean Mochi talked 610 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,120 about this, we had a decision to make. 611 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,080 We could either kind of let the natural process of markets sort 612 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,040 of shutter the campus and create something of a black hole. 613 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,800 Matter of fact, Aaron Siebert, our wonderful head of social 614 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,000 investment said, well, we'll just get get it on the rebound. 615 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,840 Let's go, let it go into bankruptcy and we'll get it on 616 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:34,800 the rebound. He's a finance guy. 617 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,400 And there is there is a tale to that story that is a little bit 618 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,200 more charitable to Aaron because we said, no, of course not, 619 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:44,440 we're not going to let that happen. 620 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,200 And Aaron then became the greatest advocate for the 621 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,280 project and has done kind of more than any single human being 622 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,600 could possibly do to make to make it possible. 623 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:57,400 But one of the very first things we decided to do was to take 624 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,640 that Hope Starts Here framework and landed on the Marygrove 625 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,400 campus because you already had the School of Education at the 626 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,680 university developing the K12 programming, which was 627 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,120 spectacular and beyond imagination. 628 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,600 But then we thought, well, if we are going to help build out a 629 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,840 new model of early childhood development, why don't we do it 630 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,240 on this campus? And so that has been an 631 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,400 extraordinary addition to the neighborhood. 632 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,200 And what makes me think of it, Tracy, is it, is it a lot of 633 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,400 folks in the neighborhood have said, you know, I, I was 634 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,440 thinking that maybe we might not stay, we might go somewhere 635 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,600 else. It's just too hard to raise 636 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,560 children in this neighborhood. And now all of a sudden you have 637 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,720 a, a, a preschool program, you have AK-8 program, you have a 638 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,640 912 program. And the University of Michigan 639 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,120 has said that if you move through that system as a 640 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,920 Detroiter, you get automatic admission to the University of 641 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,360 Michigan Extraordinary. They have never done that. 642 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:54,200 And so you really have this preschool through post secondary 643 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:58,320 continuum that is I think unlike anything I'm aware of anywhere. 644 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,760 What I love about the hope starts here, the award wielding, 645 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:04,960 award-winning building that is on the campus. 646 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,120 It has won international awards. It's not just a beautiful 647 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,600 building. The space when you walk in, it's 648 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,960 so thoughtfully designed that as a parent, you, you look forward 649 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,600 to sending your your little one there. 650 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,320 Like the just the landscaping, the windows, the lights, how 651 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,440 they thought about just the design of the corridors is 652 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,000 beautiful. And I think when children are 653 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,520 learning and growing in beautiful spaces, it's an 654 00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:33,280 affirmation of their importance. Yeah, we've had a terrible time 655 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,520 getting parents out of the space after they drop the kids off. 656 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,679 When I tour, I just want to sit down and take it in like just, 657 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,679 it's beautiful it it is absolutely worthy of all of the 658 00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:45,440 awards it's received so. Well, I don't mean to to pile 659 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,360 on, but it just seems to me that that then becomes another reason 660 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,360 to do the campus right, because the renovation of the high 661 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,199 school has been spectacular. These are beautiful turn of the 662 00:34:55,199 --> 00:34:59,920 century buildings, turn of the 1900s buildings, and if we can 663 00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:04,160 make sure that the entire campus has that quality of of warmth 664 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,080 and holding of community, then we'll have done our job well. 665 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,120 Amazing. Dean Moji, who's leading a lot 666 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:11,680 of this work, kicked off our series. 667 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:13,800 Yes, she did. She also shared that some of the 668 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,880 kids are actually helping to design those spaces, that the 669 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,560 kids aren't just inhabiters of the spaces, but the kids are 670 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,640 actually helping to shape the spaces they're in. 671 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:27,800 And is it Eric Howard, who runs the project in southwest 672 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:32,880 Detroit, often talked about sort of visual equity and that one of 673 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,920 the conditions of being a young person is you're not in control 674 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,520 of how anything in your life looks anyway. 675 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,320 I just anyway. Well, so wouldn't it be 676 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,920 spectacular, Jamie, as we designed this new building? 677 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,200 Because we are going to design a new building and a new grounds 678 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,120 again in conjunction with the Conservancy. 679 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,720 Wouldn't it be cool if those kids were sitting right there 680 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,280 helping us figure out how to do this? 681 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,120 And they will, yeah. Sorry, So what I was supposed to 682 00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,080 do with that transition? Before I got lost. 683 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,760 Is to say that not only did Dean Moji kick off the series the 684 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,080 season of Path Breakers, she also inaugurated our favorite 685 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:07,800 tradition, which is the Lightning Round. 686 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,120 So this is where we're going to see if you deserve to be CEO of 687 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,160 the Kresge Foundation by asking you a series of hard hitting 688 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:16,200 questions. I think we know the. 689 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,280 Answer to that, right? So, Tracy, I think you're 690 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,400 kicking this. One What is an essential part of 691 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,080 your morning routine? I'm embarrassed to say that 692 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,880 every morning of my adult life I have run. 693 00:36:28,240 --> 00:36:29,680 You have a run. I've run. 694 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,440 I know it's so tedious and uninteresting, but I whether 695 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,600 it's 20 below or 90 above, I, I go slogging out. 696 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:39,880 I it's now more of a waddle. But it is. 697 00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:42,400 It is. It is out in the open air every 698 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:43,720 morning. Just stop What? 699 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:45,320 What's the best thing to draw with? 700 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:46,920 What's the best drawing implement? 701 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:54,160 Oh, there are these sort of wonderful new pencils that can 702 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:58,320 actually change colors. And so I used to have to figure 703 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,480 out where my Reds were and where my Blues were. 704 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,640 Now you can actually turn a little knob and and you only 705 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,280 need 1 pencil. I think I still have 500 but I 706 00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:10,880 you only need one. If you could spend one day as 707 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:15,640 any animal, what would you be? I think an Otter when, when, 708 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,160 when we were growing, when, when my son was growing up, he had 709 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,280 this fascination with otters. And when we would go to 710 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,840 aquarium, he would stand in front of the Otter case and he 711 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,440 would move and the otters would move with him. 712 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,320 And I've often thought, wouldn't it be nice to have have that 713 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:32,600 kind of rapport with a human being? 714 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,040 Just. Amazing. 715 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,000 What's the first book you remember reading? 716 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:42,560 Oh, oh, it, it was probably Pinocchio and it wasn't the 717 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,680 Disney Pinocchio. The the actual real version of 718 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,360 Pinocchio is a terrifying book by an Italian author. 719 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,160 And we had it in our library and I made the mistake of opening it 720 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:54,800 and I was just traumatized for years. 721 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:55,880 I don't think I read another book. 722 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,240 Do you collect anything and if So, what? 723 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,560 What do I collect? Oh, oh, I this is a terribly 724 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,560 Monday. I collect T-shirts from other 725 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:09,000 cities. Oh. 726 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:10,840 That's. Not terrible. 727 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:12,960 Yeah, it comes in handy if you have to go running in the 728 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,400 morning. We'll have to snake you out. 729 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,240 You come and see what cities you're representing. 730 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:19,920 What's the best part of summer in Michigan? 731 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:25,240 Oh, I think clearly if you can get there, being on the the 732 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:30,280 northernmost reaches of Lake MI. If you could create a holiday, 733 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,880 what would it be? Maybe it would be National 734 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,920 Architecture Day. If you could have dinner with 735 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,160 any historical figure, who would you have dinner with? 736 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,280 I actually did. It was Stephen Hawking. 737 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:49,520 Yeah, Hawking was giving one of his very final lectures, and 738 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:54,360 using the voice technology made him make that possible. 739 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:58,560 And I was invited afterward to sit at a very small dinner with 740 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,240 him. And he didn't have to say a 741 00:39:01,240 --> 00:39:02,920 word. Just being in his presence was 742 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,480 inspirational. Speaking of dinner, what's your 743 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,240 favorite thing to make? Doesn't have to be dinner. 744 00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:11,160 It could be breakfast, lunch, brunch. 745 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:12,720 Oh gosh. I think if. 746 00:39:12,720 --> 00:39:14,280 It's a mimosa for brunch. I won't judge. 747 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:21,680 You, I think it would be going to the local Kroger and getting 748 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,680 some kind of icing topping and then putting it on pretty much 749 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:27,440 anything. It doesn't match matter. 750 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,200 You're not allowed to say Detroit and you're not allowed 751 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,240 to say Minnean. What's an American city everyone 752 00:39:33,240 --> 00:39:36,280 should visit? I think New Orleans, I think 753 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:40,240 there is a magic to New Orleans beyond the French Quarter. 754 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:44,080 I mean, when you think about the complexity of what that city has 755 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:48,000 gone through and how it's both rebuilt to its past, but rebuilt 756 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:52,120 to a future, and the resilience of the folks in in New Orleans 757 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,000 remind me a lot of the resilience of the folks in 758 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,280 Detroit. Where do you do your best 759 00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,640 writing? The computer has sort of changed 760 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:04,120 that it it it used to be holding up in a study and kind of 761 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:08,600 walling myself off and doing long hand work was that's what I 762 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,760 would do. Now it's just the kitchen table. 763 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:14,480 Just because you can go get the icing that you got it cover. 764 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:16,920 But you know. There is something about that 765 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,560 pen to paper that just feels good, and then you can look at 766 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:21,640 it when you're done and close the page and you feel like 767 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,120 you've accomplished something that just doesn't come with 768 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,800 minimizing the screen. Oh, absolutely not. 769 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:28,760 That's. True, and so we usually end by 770 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,040 asking folks who's someone who broke a path that made your 771 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,320 career possible? Who do you look to as a path 772 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:41,840 breaker in your life? There have been so many leaders 773 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,360 who have sort of modeled different kinds of behavior in 774 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,440 their sectors. I had a mentor at the law firm. 775 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,760 I worked for a congressman, I worked for a mayor. 776 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:55,520 I worked for a designer. But you know, in some ways the 777 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,240 person who sort of entered my life first was a Superintendent 778 00:40:59,240 --> 00:41:04,560 of schools in Minneapolis who asked me to lead a project to 779 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,360 help define sort of a Bill of Rights and responsibilities 780 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,640 during a particularly tumultuous period of Minneapolis when we 781 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,160 were desegregating our schools and going through the anti war 782 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,960 movement and everything else. And the fact that he chose to 783 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:21,560 trust in a young person and backed us all the way and 784 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,880 permitted us to do our work unimpeded was an enormous gift 785 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:33,360 of how leadership can can be both risk taking and risk 786 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:34,480 accepting. It was. 787 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:40,160 He was an extraordinary leader. His name was John B Davis and I 788 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,360 kind of carry his image with me pretty much wherever I go. 789 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,960 That's amazing, Tracy, this is a little bit of a bittersweet 790 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,200 moment for us. This is our final episode of 791 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:51,880 what we hope is the first season. 792 00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:54,560 Path Breakers, What's been your favorite part of the season? 793 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:59,880 Oh wow, talking about just the change taking place in cities, 794 00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:02,920 learning about the different aspects of how people are able 795 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,960 to do their work, that has been really eye opening for me. 796 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:11,240 I just, I wake up in the morning and I'm now on a diet of how 797 00:42:11,240 --> 00:42:15,040 much MSNBC I can watch. And it's so easy to get so 798 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,520 depressed. But then you talk with someone 799 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,720 like Doctor Beverly Wright from New Orleans and what she's 800 00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:23,360 accomplished in her career and is still accomplishing. 801 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,600 I've just been filled with so much hope about what's possible, 802 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,720 what can actually happen. So, but I think for now we're 803 00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:32,120 going to leave it here. We'll leave it here for now, see 804 00:42:33,240 --> 00:42:34,840 what happens. Absolutely. 805 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,080 Thank you, RIP for joining us today. 806 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,320 It was a wonderful time talking to you. 807 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,680 We so appreciate all of the knowledge and insights that 808 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,240 you've went today, as well as sharing this amazing big news 809 00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:46,400 with us. Yeah, I can't. 810 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,720 I mean, this was so much more interesting than I thought it 811 00:42:48,720 --> 00:42:51,000 was going to be. No, I'm, I'm totally kidding, 812 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,520 but this is a big deal about Kresge relocating. 813 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,280 And so thank you for coming on our podcast to break the news. 814 00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,800 What a pleasure. Path Breakers and news Breakers. 815 00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,480 Thank you both very much. And Tracy, I think we've got to 816 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:05,360 read ourselves out of this episode. 817 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:06,920 We do. We have to officially put some 818 00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:12,360 icing on this thing. RIP Rapson is the president and 819 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,320 CEO of the Kresge Foundation. We've put links in the show 820 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:19,160 notes to the announcement about our new headquarters and to a 821 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,200 great video of RIP demonstrating his drawing process. 822 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,440 Path Breakers has been produced by the Kresge Foundation. 823 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,880 It was founded in 1924 with a mission to promote human 824 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,280 progress. Today, Kresge works to expand 825 00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,480 equity and opportunity in America's cities. 826 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,280 Read the stories of all of this seasons Path Breakers and learn 827 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,160 about our grant making social investing work in Detroit, 828 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:44,200 Memphis, New Orleans, Fresno, as well as cities across the US at 829 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,920 presby.org. To hear more stories from the 830 00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,840 Path Breakers, be sure to subscribe to the show wherever 831 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,200 you listen to podcasts. Our producers are Juliet Heimley 832 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:57,080 and Zach Rosen, managing editors, Krista Yankee, show art 833 00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:00,520 by Rochelle Baker, and creative direction by Alejandro Herrera. 834 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,760 Special thanks for this episode to Podcast Nation Studio here in 835 00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:09,160 Troy, MI for hosting us and to Mark Marks for his work on the 836 00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,440 video version of this episode. I'd also like to say thank you 837 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,440 to all of my crazy colleagues for their support and enthusiasm 838 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,040 on this project, especially Jennifer Koziki, Sarah Traxler, 839 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:21,840 and of course, thank you, RIP Rapson for letting us do this. 840 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,440 See y'all next. Time. 841 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:25,160 Bye.