1 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,480 If you've been listening to our podcast this season, you might 2 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,800 be hearing this music and think, hey, that's not the Path 3 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,480 Breakers theme music. First of all, thank you for 4 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,120 listening. And also, you'd be right, this 5 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:30,720 music is by the band Ketzal. And one of the members of Ketzal 6 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,880 is its namesake, Ketzal Flores. Hello everybody. 7 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,040 This is Quetzal Flores, Director of Cultural Power with the 8 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,600 Community Power Collective here in the East Side of Los Angeles. 9 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,560 In addition to his role at the Community Power Collective, he 10 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:47,640 is also a Grammy winning musician. 11 00:00:48,480 --> 00:00:51,800 And today, we're going to chat with Quetzal Flores about the 12 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,120 connections between music making and community organizing, 13 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,200 between cultural traditions and cultural power. 14 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:01,840 And when we were recording kids, all was sitting in front of 15 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,440 several paintings on the wall. There was a portrait of a woman. 16 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:10,800 A Raul Baltazar painting of my partner Martha. 17 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,800 Another painting, primarily in red and black, of a trumpet 18 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,680 player at a protest. Particularly about the the 19 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,480 teachers strike that happened a couple years ago here in LA. 20 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,880 And a third one. Well, this is Carmen Lomas 21 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,040 Garza. This is actually. 22 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,920 It's a lithograph. This one's a dreamy night time 23 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:33,240 scene. That depicts a family as two 24 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,480 sisters on the rooftop, you know, reflecting on the moon and 25 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,360 the clouds and pointing up and just kind of like, you know, the 26 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,680 wonder of of nature and the universe. 27 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:47,040 And you have a mom down here doing what we could call 28 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:52,520 invisible labor, but creating the safe, the conditions that 29 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,680 are safe enough for these young people to be up up there to 30 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,760 imagine and to be connected and, you know, and to have to be in 31 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:05,880 relationship and conversation. Creating space for imagination 32 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,160 is a critical aspect of KET Sal's work with the Community 33 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:11,960 Power Collective. From imagination comes 34 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,760 innovation. I I would say the best way to 35 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,360 talk about imagination and organizing is through a Robin DJ 36 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,480 Kelly quote. Freedom Dreams is the name of 37 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:23,960 the book. Robin DJ Kelly says without new 38 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:29,240 visions, we don't know what to build, only what to tear down. 39 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:34,840 We become cynical and rudderless, and we forget that 40 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:39,760 making a revolution is not a series of clever maneuvers and 41 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,280 tactics, but a process that will and must transform us. 42 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:47,440 Welcome to Path Breakers, a show about what it takes to cut 43 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:51,400 through the noise and red tape and all of the other obstacles 44 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,360 to progress. I'm Tracy Pearson and I work on 45 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,880 the communications team at the Kresge Foundation. 46 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,520 And I'm Jamie Bennett. I work at the intersections of 47 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,080 arts, culture, and equitable community development. 48 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,560 On each episode, we talk with a different path breaker who's 49 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:07,880 forging a new way forward in their community. 50 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:15,960 Today, we welcome Ketzel Flores. So let's start with where are 51 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,720 you, where are you joining us from and can tell us a little 52 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:21,880 bit about that that place. Yes. 53 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,720 So I work and live in East Los Angeles. 54 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,160 It's known as East Los Angeles, but, you know, historically 55 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:35,680 unseated Tonga land and East LA is one of the also historically 56 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:41,680 redlined areas in Los Angeles and a place in particular that 57 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:47,440 many immigrant communities could come to and find sanctuary and 58 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:49,760 find connection and find belonging. 59 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,200 You talk about sanctuary and connection and belonging. 60 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,600 I've I've never been there, but can you describe what's like the 61 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,440 flavor there? How would you describe it for 62 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:00,800 people that have never been today? 63 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:02,240 Yeah, I would. I would. 64 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,760 I would describe it as lots of family, lots of language, 65 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,520 particularly now it's Spanish. But like, you know, historically 66 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,360 there were large Japanese American communities, Eastern 67 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,280 European communities, and so there was a lot of languages 68 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,920 happening. It is a site of many rebellions 69 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,360 throughout history. This is where the zoot suitors 70 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,400 came from, or at least you know, in in Los Angeles. 71 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:25,840 This is where they came from because they were all over the 72 00:04:25,840 --> 00:04:27,440 Southwest and Mexico City as well. 73 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:34,280 This is where the high school blowouts started in in the 60s. 74 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,280 This is where the Chicano Moratorium happens and Ruben 75 00:04:38,280 --> 00:04:41,080 Salazar gets murdered by the LA sheriff's. 76 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:46,280 This is where the anti fascist protests led by the Jewish 77 00:04:46,280 --> 00:04:50,160 Baker's Union happened. There's a lot of, there's so 78 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,440 much history and, and credible present. 79 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:54,840 This is where people are currently responding and 80 00:04:54,840 --> 00:04:57,880 resisting and, and being proactive about refusing 81 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,800 displacement, refusing the process of gentrification and 82 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,280 doing it in ways that have been effective and exemplary in terms 83 00:05:06,280 --> 00:05:09,680 of not only what are the, the, the technical things you do, 84 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,080 what are the legal things you do, but what are the extra legal 85 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,880 things you do? How do you step out-of-the-box 86 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:20,440 and and build things that become then become a sort of layer of 87 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:24,560 protection and of space to breathe and reflect and think 88 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:28,680 and and plan? Yeah, I love that you bring 89 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:33,320 those different errors and and moments in time up because it's 90 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,320 it's, it's a really a testament of how that community is really 91 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:41,520 about that action when it comes to maintaining and, and 92 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,280 maintaining culture specifically and the people that are there 93 00:05:44,280 --> 00:05:47,200 and honoring those people and the movements that they've been 94 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,560 able to to build there. I love that. 95 00:05:49,840 --> 00:05:51,760 Yeah. And then and then thinking about 96 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,760 culture, it is because of of what it is. 97 00:05:55,760 --> 00:06:02,160 It's it's incredible and important site of of culture, 98 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,480 production and influence throughout Los Angeles. 99 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,560 One of the reasons we wanted to talk with you today was your 100 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:13,440 work with the Community Power Collective, and you specifically 101 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,280 are the director of cultural power. 102 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,800 And I think to folks who come out of organizing, to folks who 103 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,200 do this work in the street, that connection is really obvious. 104 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,080 But I think to some of the folks who might be listening, they 105 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,840 might not quite understand what culture has to do with building 106 00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:33,400 community power. So can you help us walk through 107 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,800 the lithograph behind you, the music you've been mentioning, 108 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,920 all of these things that are part of the culture, And why is 109 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,120 that such an essential ingredient about building 110 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:46,160 community power? Yeah, I grew up in movement. 111 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,640 I grew up parents who were a part of the Chicano movement 112 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:55,240 were part of even a, a clandestine national Marxist 113 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,560 Leninist organization, cadre organization. 114 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:03,280 You know, I, I grew up in, in understanding that as normal. 115 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,560 I grew up before being an organizer was a paid job. 116 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,720 It was something you did because you had to do it and you got 117 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,800 involved in the movement because change needed to happen and you 118 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:16,640 wanted to be a part of that social transformation. 119 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:21,920 And so you, you did your part. I also, when I was coming of 120 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,200 age, I, I fell in love with music, deeply in love with 121 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,400 music, with playing music with, with composing music, with, you 122 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:32,160 know, performing music live. And, and so then as, as I 123 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:36,800 developed that craft and decided that that's what I wanted to do 124 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:42,120 for, let's say, as my labor practice, it became very 125 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:47,800 complicated because of the value system of socialism, of Marxism, 126 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:52,920 you know, and became very confusing because how was I 127 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:58,200 going to make money off of something that was not 128 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,120 necessarily mine, but belongs to an entire community? 129 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:06,160 And then as I went along, building that thing and then 130 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:08,240 going out and touring and doing all those things. 131 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,400 And then you have a lot of time to reflect out there. 132 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:14,320 And so the question was, are we having the impact we really want 133 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,880 to have with this? And so you're moving from town 134 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,320 to town, you play, you get on stage, you play, you sell merch, 135 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,480 you shake hands, you say hello, you hug people, you say goodbye, 136 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,080 go to the next town. And it's just a business. 137 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,720 And the, it's, it becomes a transactional relationship. 138 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:31,960 You're, you're building a fan base. 139 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:33,919 And I wasn't interested in building a fan base. 140 00:08:33,919 --> 00:08:36,799 And I had to ask myself the hard questions 1st to get to that 141 00:08:36,799 --> 00:08:39,520 answer. And so once I could answer that, 142 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:41,760 then it was like, well, what am I trying to build? 143 00:08:41,919 --> 00:08:44,400 You know what, how am I effectively going to build 144 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,160 movement with culture? And at the same time, there was 145 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,520 this movement of indigenous people in, in Chiapas, Mexico, 146 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:56,480 that in the early 90s that came out and declared war on the 147 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,720 government of Mexico. And they're called the Sapatista 148 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,040 movement, right? Or the the acronym is EZLN 149 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:08,240 Mejiasito Sapatista de Liva de. And so the subatista movement 150 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:15,280 was so inspiring because it was these Mayan Indians were deeply 151 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,320 rooted in their traditions, in their culture, spawning this 152 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:22,800 postmodern revolution. And it wasn't the the guns and 153 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,200 you know, the warfare wasn't the point. 154 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,520 They quickly retreated from that and then pulled civil society 155 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:32,920 into a conversation, an important, necessary 156 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,640 conversation around transformation, around 157 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:41,400 indigenous rides, around questions that up to that point 158 00:09:41,560 --> 00:09:44,200 movements weren't really trying to deal with, and particularly 159 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,480 around gender and, and, and sexuality and so on and so 160 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,200 forth. And so one of the quotes that 161 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:54,560 really impacted me was when the Mexican media was trying to 162 00:09:54,560 --> 00:09:57,160 discredit one of their spokesperson, they called him 163 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:00,160 Soup Comanate Marcos. They said, oh, because they wear 164 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,960 they wear ski masks. And so they're like, why do you 165 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,000 hide your identity? You know, And then he would say, 166 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,120 well, if before 1994, you didn't care what we look like, why are 167 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,600 you so concerned now? You know, we hide our identities 168 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,760 just to to make the point that you're asking, right? 169 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,640 And then he says, well, we heard Marcos was a gay from San 170 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,640 Francisco. And then he's pauses and says, 171 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,440 yes, Marcos is a gay from San Francisco and he's a black from 172 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:34,320 South Africa and he is a a Palestinian in Gaza. 173 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:39,080 And he is a woman on the night in any major city on the metro. 174 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,600 And he's he just goes on and on. He says he's all the oppressed 175 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,280 people in the world saying enough. 176 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,680 And and that that type of response, that type of 177 00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:51,760 creativity, it was it was poetry. 178 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:54,320 You know, clearly it was poetry. And so then we started to dig 179 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,800 into like what they were doing and, and then we had an 180 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,360 opportunity to plan in Encuentro, which is like a 181 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:06,240 retreat, very pointed and, and intentional retreat to get at 182 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,240 some things. And so it was a cultural 183 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,280 Encuentro. And this is the first time that 184 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:14,280 they were actually engaged around culture because they had 185 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:16,520 been having these, what they call the international 186 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,560 Encuentro, the intergalactic Encuentro. 187 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:23,680 But it was largely dominated by like, by dogma and philosophical 188 00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:25,840 conversation around, like, you know, or theoretical 189 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,320 conversation around, like what, what is the meaning of this 190 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:29,800 movement? And you had all these 191 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,400 intellectuals from all over Mexico and around Latin America 192 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,640 and the world descending upon these indigenous communities. 193 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,480 And, and what we heard was that the indigenous people felt 194 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:40,800 displaced in these conversations. 195 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:45,680 And so when we went and we had the Cincuentro about culture, 196 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,440 this is the first time they were centered and their practices 197 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,600 were centered. And we got to get into the 198 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:55,840 minutiae of these conversations and we were still able to 199 00:11:55,840 --> 00:12:00,120 challenge patriarchal values and and practices in both 200 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,840 communities. We were able to dig into what 201 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,480 Wellness and health means. We got to dig into it to a lot 202 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,520 of these questions. And so each day had a theme and 203 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:13,040 then there was these sub themes and then there was dialogue 204 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,440 sessions and then there was art making or culture production, 205 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,320 right? And so you had dance and you had 206 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,680 theater and you had mural making, you had graffiti, you 207 00:12:22,680 --> 00:12:25,160 had music. And so then at the end of the 208 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,040 day, we'd all come together and share what we came up with. 209 00:12:28,680 --> 00:12:31,160 And I tell this story because this is where we learned 210 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:35,280 something that was that has been so important in my practice and 211 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,480 then many people's practice from my generation. 212 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:41,600 And that is, how do you land your skill set as an artist into 213 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:47,280 a community space in a way that reignites participation? 214 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,640 That, yeah, genders participation. 215 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,160 Right. And so we learned something 216 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,320 called collective songwriting from a woman named Rosa Martha 217 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:02,720 Sarathe, who was a former nun who sued the archdiocese for 218 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:07,000 their gender practices, left the archdiocese and then became this 219 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,280 like, radical organizer here. And, but like, had traveled all 220 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,880 over Latin America and hung out with Ferrari and hung out with 221 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:18,160 all these revolutionaries in, in across Latin America and then 222 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,360 came back and, and had all these ways of, of doing these things. 223 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,440 And she's a singer also and a, and a, and a guitar player. 224 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,840 And so she taught us how to do this in Chiapas in 1997. 225 00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:33,920 And since that moment it was like, oh, oh, there it is. 226 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,560 And then we knew how to look for the thing after that. 227 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:40,920 Yeah. And Ketzel, you took some of 228 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,720 those lessons and you landed for a little bit of time with her 229 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,840 friends at the Alliance for California Traditional Arts. 230 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,280 And you were doing some work in Boyle Heights and you were doing 231 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,000 some work in prisons. And yeah, I mean, you were doing 232 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,720 some really amazing work about taking those cultural practices, 233 00:13:57,720 --> 00:13:59,840 those traditions and integrating them. 234 00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:01,440 Yeah. Will you talk to us a little 235 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,520 bit? I mean, Boyle Heights, the, his, 236 00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:08,240 the, the recent history in Boyle Heights around culture and 237 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,720 gentrification. I think it's a really important 238 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:12,600 case study. Will you just talk a little bit 239 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,120 about that? Sure. 240 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:18,480 So there was a, an initiative through the California Endowment 241 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,120 called Building Healthy Communities where they were 242 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:25,320 trying to move the marker on, on the three different areas of, of 243 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:31,680 health, health in neighborhoods, meaning like, you know, public 244 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:36,200 space health with prevention, which is largely A clinical 245 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,160 health, and then schools, the third one with schools. 246 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,680 And so they really dug in and said, well, there's something 247 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:46,240 missing here in this, this framework that you've all built 248 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,440 building holy communities. And, and we think it's culture, 249 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:51,440 particularly traditional cultures, because these 250 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,360 community specific communities you're working in have 251 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,680 tremendous amounts of culture already active. 252 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:04,120 So how do we leverage that to be able to build stronger campaigns 253 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:08,200 and what not, right. And so that was a lot of the 254 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:13,520 work was getting people used to the idea that culture can be 255 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,920 centered and by centering culture that you can arrive at 256 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:25,840 very different and deeper impacts than just going for the 257 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:31,320 linear campaign win, right? That we needed to delineate to 258 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:35,680 be able to take care of some things I've heard them called, 259 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,160 like the preconditions to be able to be in struggle and be in 260 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:44,360 movement spaces. And so we placed what we called 261 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:49,040 artist fellows into these spaces, two of them in each 262 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:50,640 space. And the artist fellows then 263 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:56,160 worked with each work group and help them design what we call 264 00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:00,200 cultural interventions, right ways in which we're going to 265 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:06,120 actually practice the thing that then is going to help us yield 266 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,240 something very different. One of the stories I always tell 267 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:12,240 that so fascinating was in the clinical health space, you had a 268 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,040 bunch of doctors and attorneys and they weren't, they weren't 269 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:20,120 trying to do this. And who we placed in that and 270 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,880 that space was Ofelia Sparsa and Rosanna Sparsa. 271 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:29,080 And Ofelia is at the time was in her 80s and so commands a 272 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,400 certain amount of respect, you know, and, and she is a 273 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:38,040 recognized culture bearer, altar maker in our community and has 274 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,640 since 1:00 gotten the National Heritage Fellowship, the US 275 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:43,800 Artist Fellowship and so many other things. 276 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,680 Ophelia is just one of our most important culture bearers in the 277 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:51,600 East Side. And so Ophelia goes in and 278 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,080 they're like, OK, well, you can do the icebreaker in our 279 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,760 meetings. And Ophelia Anderson were like, 280 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:02,080 we don't do Ice Breakers. Like, if you want us to hold you 281 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,960 in a process, we can do that, but you have to surrender. 282 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:13,599 So from that point and that sort of like difficult, intense 283 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:21,359 moment to, you know, a year later, the biggest opposition to 284 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:25,760 Ophelia being in that space was a woman attorney named Yvonne. 285 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:32,280 And so she was the one a year later looking for a failure in 286 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:34,520 the meeting, saying where is she? 287 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,320 Like, I need to talk to her. I need I need that thing, you 288 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:42,640 know, And so I came here looking for that because I know that I 289 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:47,000 can let go here that I can, you know, I don't have to have my 290 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:51,560 hands up and that I can be held. I'm holding all day. 291 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:56,640 I need to be held. And so it was a reminder that in 292 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,920 order for us to sustain movement, we all have to engage 293 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,880 in the practice. What's good for community is 294 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,720 good for us as well. And this is what collective 295 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,840 Wellness means. This is what it looks like We 296 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:15,960 cannot continually put out as organizers, as cultural workers, 297 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:22,320 as whatever it is and, and not have that reciprocal spiral come 298 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:27,240 back and touch us and move us and, and keep us connected, 299 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,000 right. And so that was a lot of the 300 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,920 work in in Boyle Heights was cracking open those moments in 301 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:38,640 those spaces where people can see themselves collectively in 302 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:43,440 in the mirror and, and say, Oh my gosh, like, you know, let me 303 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:47,720 say what I need because no one has ever asked me before what I 304 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,760 needed. My pen is like going crazy, you 305 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:52,560 dropping gems and I'm just trying to catch them. 306 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,120 I want to talk to you about the Community Power Collective. 307 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:00,760 How what was the founding story there? 308 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:02,600 How did how did that sort of come to be? 309 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,280 You want me to tell you the truth, or you want me to give 310 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:07,680 you the? I want it real. 311 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,000 What's the truth? Tell the Tell the truth. 312 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:11,720 Make the producers nervous. Yeah. 313 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:20,280 So I was hired by my close friend, Isela Gracian to work 314 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,480 from the, the building Healthy Communities work, but we had an 315 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,800 art and culture work group. And so this is how I got to 316 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,640 really connect with Isela and, and built before like we 317 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:32,800 actually share birthdays. We just had a birthday, June 318 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,280 4th, happy birthday. And so thank you. 319 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:40,400 And so she, she's like, I need you to come to work for the East 320 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,520 LA Community Corporation. It's a nonprofit housing 321 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:47,680 developer, CDC, right? I need you to help us change the 322 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,880 DNA of the organization using practices that you have right 323 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:53,800 doing the same thing you you've done in the building healthy 324 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:55,360 community space. I need you to come and do that 325 00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:57,800 inside ELAC you still a community corporation. 326 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,640 We've become stuck is the word she used. 327 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,360 And so they hired me as the director of of cultural 328 00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:09,880 vitality. And my job was to transform the 329 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,760 internal workings of the organization to, you know, 330 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:18,240 again, crack open these things. First week I borrow a key. 331 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,200 To a cultural space that was empty for years that they were 332 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:23,720 holding onto. It was just a property. 333 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,520 And then I, I go in there and I look, it's all dusty and kind of 334 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,840 like, OK, what can we do here? You know, kind of just spinning 335 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,200 my wheels. I was the only staff member for, 336 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:35,720 for a culture vitality at the time. 337 00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:39,280 And so then I keep the key because I'm like, I'm going to 338 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:40,960 keep coming back. And, you know, spending some 339 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:45,720 time here and just thinking. And then all of a sudden I'm, I 340 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,320 see the, the person who gave me the key, they were called the 341 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,880 property manager, right? And they say, Hey, where's the 342 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,240 key? And I said, Oh, I have it 343 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:55,400 because I'm, I'm going to keep going over there. 344 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,360 They're like, well, we have a policy of like, you don't return 345 00:20:57,360 --> 00:21:00,280 the key within three days. I suspend your privileges for, 346 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,800 for 30 days. And I, I thought he was kidding, 347 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,480 but he wasn't kidding. And I was like, oh, he's not 348 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,320 kidding. Oh, so this, this is the vibe. 349 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:13,240 Oh, this is what's going on here. 350 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:18,280 OK here, sure. Here's the key, you know, and so 351 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,680 I was like, OK, I got to get to work and, you know, I can go to 352 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,720 the community space and, and imagine later, but I can, I got 353 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:29,360 to get to work internally here. And, and so we started to, to 354 00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:33,280 just create process. And the thing we did that really 355 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:38,520 helped us turn the corner was a mural project we brought. 356 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:40,640 I brought in one of my contemporaries who was in 357 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,800 Chiapas with us, who understood the trajectory, understood the 358 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,280 mission and who had the skill set. 359 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,760 His name is Omar Ramirez. And Omar Ramirez has since come 360 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:52,880 up with this really beautiful framework called Restorative 361 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,400 Cultural Arts. And he's going to publish 362 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,880 something soon. And so he's he's brilliant. 363 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,320 And Omar, he says, OK, well, let's, let's do a mural project 364 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:06,440 on panels. And so for a year we went and we 365 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,080 just would meet with different groups of people. 366 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,920 So we met with what were effectively the departments. 367 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,240 And then we started to mix them up, you know, and break apart 368 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,760 the departments and mix, meet with like this person from this 369 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,200 department, that person and put them together because they 370 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:27,840 didn't like each other, right? And then have them work together 371 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,960 on an, on an actual panel. And so, but what came out of 372 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,160 those discussions was actually a theory of change. 373 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,960 And that theory of change identified that we have been 374 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:45,160 fixed in a mode of resistance for some time now. 375 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,600 That is, we're responding to injustice. 376 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,120 The powers that be don't care about this response. 377 00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:55,600 There's an uprising, and then there is some sort of paradigm 378 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,920 shift. And then from that paradigm 379 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,760 shift, there is potential for innovation. 380 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,440 But instead of innovating, we go right back to responding to the 381 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,680 next thing. And then we just fixed and. 382 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,280 That sounds so funny and. We're just fixed in the cycle of 383 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,360 resistance, right? This is, this is the world we're 384 00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:11,680 talking about. This is how it's been. 385 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,640 And so at what point do we actually sit in innovation long 386 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:20,400 enough so that we can spin off into regenerative spirals? 387 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:25,720 And in those regenerative spirals, we are simultaneously 388 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:31,240 responding, not reacting, but responding to injustice. 389 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,480 We're responding to all the things. 390 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,240 And we're building the thing that we actually need and want 391 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:43,400 instead of waiting for it to happen in some system that will 392 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,080 never, ever, ever give us the thing we want, will give us 393 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,640 concessions, but will never give us the thing that we want and 394 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,560 need as a society, as a community. 395 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,600 Socialized healthcare, socialized housing, food, access 396 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:02,360 to food, education, you know, those basic things that every 397 00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:06,840 human being should have. And so as we got to a beautiful 398 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,960 moment in that organization where I felt like we were going 399 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,640 to take off, there was a financial crisis. 400 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,360 And so this board stepped in and said, we're going to 401 00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:21,280 restructure. And so we know what that means, 402 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,920 right? And so I went to the director of 403 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:28,120 organizing and I said, OK, Carla, the writing's on the 404 00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:29,920 wall. What are we going to do? 405 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,720 And she's like, I think we need to start our own org. 406 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:34,120 And I was like, that's what I was thinking. 407 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:41,280 And so then we started lining up the funders and having really 408 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,560 difficult conversations and saying this is what's happening 409 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:44,600 and this is what we're going to do. 410 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:46,440 And they said, we're going with you. 411 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,920 And that's how the Community Power Collective was born. 412 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,200 Interestingly enough, simultaneously through the East 413 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,920 LA Community Corporation, we were able to build a Land Trust. 414 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,040 And at that same moment, the Land Trust was emerging from 415 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,920 that organization and into its own. 416 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,640 And so as we were landing the Community Power Collective, the 417 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,000 Land Trust was landing as well. And so we built a really strong 418 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,040 symbiotic relationship. And that's that's our sister 419 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,080 organization. We share everything. 420 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,360 And you am I right that the center sort of organizes its 421 00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:25,560 work around tenants, around transit riders and around St. 422 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,320 vendors? Is that some of the organizing 423 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,040 framework? Yes. 424 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,640 So the three pillars are exactly what you mentioned. 425 00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:39,040 The three pillars are transit justice, economic justice that 426 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,160 happens through our justice for St. 427 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:45,000 Vendors work and then it is housing justice. 428 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,160 How do these all sort of coalesce together? 429 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,240 Like how do they, how do they work together in, in, in through 430 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,160 the framework of of that well. When you think about working 431 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:58,760 people and you think about access and you think about like 432 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:04,960 basic needs, you know those those things go together. 433 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,800 In Spanish, there's a word olgar, which does not mean like 434 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:15,160 house, it means home, you know, like the, the right to be able 435 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,080 to have a space where if you, you know, if you have family, if 436 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,320 you don't, whatever it is like that you that you feel safe, 437 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:26,080 that you feel warm, that you feel protected, that you feel 438 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,840 that you can, you can launch from the nest that you can 439 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,520 launch from. And so then the other part is 440 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,520 like moving about like you, we have to move about the city. 441 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,120 We have to be able to go to work. 442 00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:39,440 We have to be able to do these things. 443 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:49,240 And so it shouldn't cost people money or fear or terror to be 444 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,720 able to do this, right? People should be able to think 445 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,080 we we already paid for it. Why are we paying for it again? 446 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,720 And so that's the concept. And so learning how to hold 447 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:05,600 space collectively so that there is safety, right, community 448 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:11,000 safety plans and what instead of instead of guns and, and, and 449 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,880 violence. And then the last piece is when 450 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:17,920 they get to work that, that, that that place is a dignified 451 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,360 place, that that work is dignified, that the pay is 452 00:27:20,360 --> 00:27:23,800 dignified, that the benefits are dignified, right? 453 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,720 That they don't have to worry about ice coming in and sweeping 454 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,560 them away, that they don't worry, have to worry about the 455 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,960 cops coming and stealing take taking their merchandise for the 456 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,000 county coming and taking their merchandise and throwing it 457 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,040 away. And all of a sudden they have to 458 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,520 start all over again. And now they're you, they're in 459 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,520 debt. And they're, you know, and we're 460 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:49,040 not talking about people who are making millions of dollars. 461 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,720 These are people that make, you know, see, OK, this is another 462 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:58,200 thing is when we talk about like, economy, when we talk 463 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,080 about like, you know, like these different strategies, like, I 464 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:06,040 don't want to hear the goddamn economist on CNN because that 465 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:07,840 sucker has gotten us into a lot of trouble. 466 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,000 I want to hear from the street vendor who has raised a family 467 00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:14,280 on $20,000 a year. How the hell did you do that? 468 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,000 Tell me, Tell all of us, because we need to understand. 469 00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:21,320 And I'm not saying it's good or that people should have to do 470 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,880 that, but I'm saying these people are geniuses. 471 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,680 They're brilliant. Requires ingenuity to do that. 472 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,080 And then like, what is the network that you've built to be 473 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,680 able to do this? That's where we need to lean and 474 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,520 that's where the the juicy information is. 475 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,280 And that's how Community Power Collective works is that we sent 476 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,520 her their lived experience, we sent her their stories. 477 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,000 We don't. We don't have all the answers, 478 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:52,080 but we sure as hell know that without them, like we, we have 479 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,560 no business trying to have these conversations. 480 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,920 You, you said something about breaking that cycle in the loop, 481 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,920 and it made me think about something I once heard Titus 482 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,000 Kafar, he's an artist from Kalamazoo, but he's out in 483 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,680 California doing some amazing, amazing things. 484 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,800 And he was talking about the importance of culture production 485 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:19,920 and how society's needed because it is the only way that the next 486 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,880 generation will be able to imagine something different. 487 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,440 And without that, that sort of cultural production, without the 488 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,640 ability to imagine, to dream, to create you, you keep getting the 489 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,800 same things because there's no space for the invention of 490 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:38,800 something new. And So what is or I want to hear 491 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,920 your thoughts on the importance of getting to something new, 492 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:49,040 something better for people and, and, and absolutely through your 493 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,760 work. But it's that mission to build 494 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,080 power through through all of these different things and 495 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,880 something just that the the next generation can also build upon 496 00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:03,800 but benefit from. One of the traditions that I I 497 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,840 have studied for a long time and and been a participant in is the 498 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,040 Fandango tradition and from Veracruz, Mexico. 499 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,400 Now the Fandango tradition is participatory music, dance and 500 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:19,160 and singing tradition around a wooden platform. 501 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:25,480 It is an Afro Mexican tradition. It is this music itself. 502 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,320 The song Carocho is known as the Blues of Mexico because of the 503 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:34,080 way it has emerged and the way it tells, the way it narrates 504 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,360 story, history, history, on and on. 505 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:44,480 And so in the Fandango, there are no performers, there are 506 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:50,040 only participants. Even the last, the in its 507 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,800 concentric circles, even that last circle, which is community 508 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,400 sort of hanging out, eating, having conversation, let's call 509 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,440 it the cell wall. Without that sort of outer wall, 510 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,720 we cannot wield this thing into into friction, right? 511 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:11,520 And so in that tradition, so you all know La Bamba, correct? 512 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,000 Of course. OK, so La Bamba is from that 513 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,400 tradition. However, they would never say 514 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:21,280 let's play La Bamba. They would say, let's play a 515 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:29,360 Bamba because they're very aware that there's not one definitive 516 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:37,480 version of Bamba, that it is up to the community in those 517 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:44,440 moments in the present to be able to articulate it however 518 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,720 they need to. And then the verses that are 519 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,160 sung, maybe verses that have never been sung before, the 520 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,800 verses that are sung, the order that they're sung, are 521 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,720 different. And so this is the beauty of 522 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,920 traditional music. This is the beauty of tradition 523 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:03,240 in general, OK, is that it is dynamic. 524 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:09,040 It is ever evolving and we have to look at it as such in order 525 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:13,320 to benefit from it. So I, there's, there's so much 526 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,440 in what you just said and one of the threads that I want to pull 527 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,120 a little bit. And these are some things that 528 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,120 have come up I think consistently across the 529 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,400 conversations we've been having. I don't know if I want to call 530 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,440 them tensions as much as I want to call them twins. 531 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:33,240 But this sort of the need for traditional knowledge paired 532 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,440 with the need for innovation, right? 533 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,800 We do need some experts, some expertise, the economist, but we 534 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,320 also need to elevate experience, what the micro entrepreneur 535 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,560 who's who's getting by with the family is doing. 536 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:52,280 There's, you know, and, and sort of traditionally, philanthropy 537 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,720 has a hard time with more than one thing being true at the same 538 00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,720 time. And, you know, a project like 539 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,920 yours is often hard for a lot of foundations to get their head 540 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:09,120 around because there's too much music and painting for someone 541 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:10,920 who's working on transit justice. 542 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,760 There's too much sort of organizing the street and micro 543 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,320 entrepreneurs for someone who's funding art and culture. 544 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:21,000 You know, if you were going to sort of talk to philanthropy and 545 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,240 sort of say, here's what I really want you to understand 546 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,800 about this work as it happens on the ground and working in East 547 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,400 LA, what, what's your sort of open mic to philanthropy? 548 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,360 Yeah. I would say, OK, I was doing a 549 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,480 presentation on Son Cairo, Ocho and the Fandango in in a 550 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,800 organization in Seattle. I used to live in Seattle and we 551 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,640 were doing a presentation to be able to gain support from this 552 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,360 organization, to give us space to hold the workshops. 553 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:56,720 And then the executive director says, asks, can this solve gang 554 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:03,360 violence? And I was like, no, in, in 555 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:07,720 isolation, it cannot. Can it be a contributing factor 556 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:13,360 to giving young people a culturally sustainable space to 557 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:20,280 participate and to grow and to connect and to feel the warmth 558 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,400 and embrace of community? 100%? 559 00:34:25,639 --> 00:34:29,080 Can that lead to making a difference in their lives? 560 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:34,440 Can we bring their families into this space to actually confront 561 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,199 dynamics that may be happening? Sure. 562 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:41,159 Are there resources in this space with people who work in 563 00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:46,880 different sectors that could provide resources to therapy, to 564 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:52,360 anger management classes, to jobs or job training, or 565 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,320 absolutely 100%? All of that can be found here, 566 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,400 right? But this is how philanthropy 567 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,440 works is like, oh, this thing is going to do this right. 568 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,760 It's going to solve gang violence and that's just not how 569 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,120 it is. What I will say though to them 570 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:13,000 is that the cultural component and particularly in within how 571 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,680 the community power collective is working, it is an essential 572 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:21,240 function in the larger scope of organizing. 573 00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:27,520 We cannot ignore the lived cultural experience of community 574 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:29,560 people. As a matter of fact, we are 575 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,200 doing ourselves a disservice by if we ignore it because the 576 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:37,280 information that they are bringing, the wisdom that they 577 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:41,720 are bringing, the cultural wisdom is the foundation for 578 00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:45,480 which we have to build this thing up. 579 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,160 To look at St. vendors and to say oh, micro entrepreneurs, 580 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:54,120 yes, that is true. And 80% percent of them are 581 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,440 indigenous from Central America and Mexico. 582 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,560 OK, what does that mean? Well, it means a whole lot. 583 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,520 And when you think about what indigenous communities have that 584 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:10,960 we are missing is exactly that they know each other, they know 585 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,800 their neighbors, they know how to build community. 586 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:20,440 Communities are are often times moving intact over here and the 587 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,760 networks are intact and the social dynamic is intact. 588 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:30,400 And so how do, how can we leverage that and build stronger 589 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,080 movement, right? How can we learn from them? 590 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,120 And so without any sort of cultural process practice 591 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:41,400 conversations around centering culture, we, we can't understand 592 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:46,160 that we had a, we have a leadership development class or 593 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:52,680 series called Liverarte and one of our curriculum is corned 594 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:54,640 beans and squash, a system in equilibrium. 595 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,960 And everybody in the room can relate to that because 596 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:04,000 everybody's sort of dietary foundation is that that's where 597 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:05,840 that's where we all come from, right. 598 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:11,520 And so every meal that is prepared for these sessions is 599 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,840 using those ingredients. So first thing they do is they 600 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:19,360 eat it and then we talked about it and then they start telling 601 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,400 stories about their grandmothers and their mothers and their 602 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,800 great grandmothers and them as children walking through these 603 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,800 corn fields. Like understanding that 604 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,120 connection to earth, understanding the connection to 605 00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:37,040 culture and land and, and all these amazing things that then 606 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:42,040 turn into the foundation for a critical analysis of capitalism, 607 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,200 of patriarchy, of white supremacy. 608 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:49,000 Some systems that are out of balance versus a symbiotic 609 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:54,080 system that is in perfect balance from the earth roots to 610 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,480 your plate maintain an equilibrium. 611 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:04,160 And so to them it is fascinating because they understand it in 612 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,320 the deepest way. They embody it literally in our 613 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,160 DNA. We embody that. 614 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,960 And so that's one of the things I would describe. 615 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,240 OK, so I wish this conversation keep going. 616 00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:20,840 I want to keep learning with you and talking with you. 617 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,840 I know we're almost out of time and I can't think of a much 618 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,360 better place to leave it than with the Senoras and with the 619 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,960 three sisters, the corn, beans and squash. 620 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,960 Tracy, what should we do to close up today? 621 00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:35,720 I think we'll do a quick lightning round. 622 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,320 Let's do it. Yes, that sound OK? 623 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:40,000 Yeah. All right, that sounds great. 624 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:41,560 These are the real gotcha questions. 625 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:48,520 What sound reminds you of home? Wow, sorry, it's not that's not 626 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:54,360 lightning my my child's voice. That's beautiful. 627 00:38:54,720 --> 00:38:57,160 Do you have a favorite tradition within your family? 628 00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,840 Oh. For sure, son Harocho, this is 629 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:01,320 how we gather in the living room. 630 00:39:01,720 --> 00:39:06,080 Amazing favorite street food. Tamales. 631 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,480 Would you take me to go look at a sunrise or a sunset? 632 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:14,920 Oh, sunset in East LA Boyle Heights is something to marvel. 633 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,400 Beautiful. First song you remember learning 634 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:23,400 how to play? Oh Harbor Coat by R.E.M. 635 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,440 Awesome. We're recording rather early for 636 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,040 you. Do you have coffee with you, tea 637 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,560 or something else? I get up at about 6:00 AM 638 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,360 everyday. I already had my coffee, I 639 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,760 already had my workout. I'm I'm all juiced up. 640 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:39,560 Awesome. What keeps you grounded when the 641 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:44,720 work gets heavy? My music, my instruments, I pick 642 00:39:44,720 --> 00:39:48,960 them up and I play whenever I start to feel tension and my 643 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:53,880 music has never let me down. After Los Angeles, what's your 644 00:39:53,880 --> 00:40:01,920 favorite city to perform? It's it's a toss up between 645 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,680 Chicago and New York. We'll give you, we'll give you. 646 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,640 I'm a thoroughbred Detroiter, but I love Chicago like I love 647 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,200 that city. What does liberation sound like 648 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:20,160 for you? Oh, it sounds like the voices of 649 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:27,920 many, many women singing together, in tune, out of tune, 650 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:32,960 out of time in time, and still, somehow together. 651 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,360 I love that you've name checked some really amazing folks, some 652 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,240 amazing teachers. Who's one more person who helped 653 00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:41,960 make the path that you're walking today? 654 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,920 My lifelong teacher Lorenzo Martinez, also known as Lencho. 655 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:48,120 Awesome. Excellent. 656 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,120 Well, kids all, I think this is where we'll leave it for today. 657 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,480 I can't wait to come visit with you in person, walk the streets 658 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,120 together and until then, have a great rest of your day. 659 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:01,600 Thank you both so much for a beautiful interview. 660 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,680 Ketzel Flores is the director of cultural Power with the 661 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,720 Community Power Collective in Los Angeles, CA. 662 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,680 We've put links to the Community Power Collective and to Ketzel's 663 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:22,120 music and some of the band's beautiful music videos in our 664 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:27,320 show. Notes Path Breakers is produced 665 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:31,000 by the Kresge Foundation, which was founded in 1924 with a 666 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:32,600 mission to promote human progress. 667 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,480 Today, Kresge works to expand equity and opportunity in 668 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,960 America's cities. Read the stories of all of this 669 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,040 season's Path Breakers and learn about our grant making and 670 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,560 social investing work in Detroit, Memphis, New Orleans, 671 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:50,160 Fresno, and cities across the US at kresge.org. 672 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,240 To hear more stories from the Path Breakers, be sure to 673 00:41:53,240 --> 00:41:56,360 subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. 674 00:41:56,720 --> 00:41:59,280 Our producers are Juliet Hindley and Zach Rosen. 675 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,400 Managing editor is Krista Yankee. 676 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:05,160 Our show art is by Rochelle Baker and Creative direction by 677 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,680 Alejandro Herrera. And a special thank you to my 678 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:11,560 colleagues on the Arts and Culture program for lifting up 679 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:15,800 kids out and speaking his name as a phenomenal path breaker. 680 00:42:16,720 --> 00:42:18,320 We'll talk to you next week.