Welcome to this Watch LIVE. Hi, I'm Lydia Winters.
And I'm Bui. Today we're talking about
movement decoration. That is not what I thought when
you said I'm going to do all the research for this episode.
I I had no idea you were talking about movement decoration.
Yes, but it's because of the second word decorations.
No, I mean, OK, so I've been thinking about this recently.
I visited Nomos, I visited IWC, seeing all these processes and
how they're making everything. And The thing is, so with the,
with so much of the watch, there's like a lot of function
and then there's also a lot of design involved.
When you get to the movement, it's very functional.
But the fact that it's being designed and decorated to be
really beautiful, I got really invested in finding out the
history of that. Because I think to me, a lot of
times in watches, there's this like no function over
everything. But obviously that's not true
because all of these movements are being beautifully decorated.
So not only do they work, but many of them not, not all, but I
mean, they actually look beautiful, have a history of,
you know, different processes to make it look more incredible.
And I, yeah, I've been very excited about it.
That's cool. I, you know, we've talked a
little bit about before because I think we've gotten questions
through Instagram about like should case backs be open?
And you know, at what price point should case backs be open?
And I'm, I'm a fan of most case backs being open because at any
different price point, like the person buying it can enjoy what
they're looking at on the movement because not all
movements are decorated, but most have something done to them
that is decoration, even if it's just a choice of the plating
color for the rotor for an automatic watch, right?
And the rest might be completely machine finished.
But even in machine finishing, you have to choose what that
machine is doing, right? So yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm excited about. This, yes, but in this case
we're going for you. In this case, we're going for
more like highly decorated movements.
OK, we're not talking. Just a cost of like, you know, I
kind of no, no, no. I was just trying to be
inclusive, yes. That's all.
But the cool thing about decorated watch movements is
like they're not just about telling time.
They're celebrating the artistry, the precision, and the
history. So the history on decorating
watch movements, it dates back to the 16th century in Europe,
particularly in Nuremberg, Germany.
Early watchmakers like Peter Henline, he began crafting small
ornamental timepieces worn as pendants.
So these were kind of like the precursor.
To water watch. Yeah, so he actually is credited
a lot of times for inventing the portable watch in the early 16th
century. They were these little
timepieces called Nuremberg eggs because they were shaped Oval,
because. It didn't have that flat shape
yet. Exactly.
And so they were made from materials like iron or steel and
they were all and then they were engraved and very ornamental.
What? Kind of accuracy.
Were they hidden? This is my favorite part
actually. It was like I I like conjured
that question because I was like how do I get to say this?
The accuracy was absolutely incredible.
Wait, what? Because it was only an hour
hand. I have only since I found this
out, I've only been thinking about how I wish all my watches
only had an hour hand and that that's how I lived my life.
You know, they were the I can see was quite limited, we might
say. You did recently leave your job
of 13 years. So I can just have an hour hand.
Technically just have an hour hand right now.
Do you even need a watch right now?
No, probably not. You only meet people on the
hour, That's fine. Only meet people on the hour.
So then if you want, if you needed to synchronize, you're
just like hey. But if someone's like, I'm
running 5 minutes late, you're like, I have no idea.
I don't. Know what that means at all?
Yeah. Well, OK, so this is where I
started going on I. Guess they say that to you on
their phone and then you'll probably be able to see the time
on the phone. True.
Never mind. They never mind.
That's true. I'm like, oh, I get.
I want to do an episode on retro tech and and retro modern tech
because there's like this big push for the modern phones,
phones built today but with less features and like we got to get
one for watch enthusiasts that doesn't tell the time.
Ohh, that's true. So you have to you could have a
like you could mod it basically or like no time here someone
like, oh, can you give me the times like only from my?
Only from my watch my not from my phone.
OK. So.
But watches with only our hand were quite common in early
watchmaking. I didn't really realize that,
especially during the 16th and 17th century, and so it wasn't
until the late 17th century that the minute hand was introduced.
So maybe. 1691. If when I think about the 1600s,
as I often do. I never do.
I'm like, I don't even know. It's not. 196016.
Hundreds, like to me at that time, most people didn't
probably it wasn't it Like you wouldn't just say like, oh, it's
like 9:00 like the time of day to any level of precision
probably didn't factor into most people's lives.
Yeah, but you could say it's 9:00 because it's an hour
marker. Yeah.
But probably very. Rich people.
Have those so like just the average person had no clock or
watch probably, you know, no clock at home and maybe the in
the town square or, you know, there there there were ways to
tell time, but but not personal ways to tell time.
So it's unlikely that at that time that you would say like I'm
gonna, I'll see you tomorrow at 9:30 at the general store.
Do you think when this British watchmaker like created the
minute hand then they went to all the big clocks in town, then
they just like added it on and people's mind were blown?
You can research this because I like want to know how the roll
out of a minute. Hand.
Yeah, you're like, what if people were like, absolutely
not. I don't know any level of
accuracy. And people know what I'm doing
all the time. We're digressing.
We never. Started to measure time.
There'd be no meetings. OK.
Like if we didn't start to measure time accurately.
Yeah, but there would be no meetings of people.
And like, remember, that's part of the the romantic thing about
time is we're saying like we together.
Yeah, so. Most people want to meet other
people. Yeah, I forget that sometimes.
OK, anyway, so you have these Nuremberg eggs, They're quite
bulky. They're worn as pendants,
they're attached to clothing. So even though they're saying
smaller, it's like smaller for the time, not like a lot of the.
Tiny things. They're made of heavy material.
Yes, but they were made to be very much a novelty, a lot of
prestige and precision. I love so much that they had
only the the our hand. I want that.
You know there are watches made today with only our hands.
I actually didn't know that, and now I will look them up and I
will get one for this period of my life.
OK, OK. Yeah, yeah, I'm kind.
Of in for it. Now you have to.
Now you have to look into that. If our good friend of the
podcast Vern Watch Studies can have a watch that goes
backwards. Most of them do a 24 hour so
it's like 1 rotation is a day. I like that.
Yeah, that sounds awesome. I shouldn't say most of them,
most of the ones that I know of. Also I think that more watches
should be 24 hours. Yeah, yeah.
It makes sense because it would be awesome, but it would also be
really hard to tell the time. It would be the same as well,
no? It would be hard to fit into
your collection. Yes, of other watches that are
12 hour base dials. Very true.
OK, so hand decorated movement. Sorry, we're getting off track
here. No, but some of the reasons they
exists, craftsmanship, obviously.
So it's like meticulously finished by skilled watchmakers,
like using a lot of traditional techniques.
And so when you think of like the finishing techniques, you
have engraving, you have the Cult de Geneve, Prolage, Enlage.
I got to try some of these things when I was an IWC
watchmaker for it for two hours. Oh did did you actually do
decoration during that? Well, I got no, not during the
class. Actually I did the prolage at
the factory. That's cool.
It seemed easy, which means it's not no, all I was doing was just
prologing a movement without any like consistency.
Or it was just like, oh, this is how it feels to do it.
OK, OK. So obviously pretty bad, but
anyway, so these techniques are are really cool, like even just
the finishing. So you have the quilt de geneve.
This is the decorative technique involving parallel.
They're like wave like lines. They're visible usually on the
surfaces of the bridges and the bars.
Plus Hootay has their own called ribbing.
Obviously we were out at no. Most so.
We like to see that and it's it's a striped finish, so it's
usually diagonally across. So it is very similar.
To the color. Yes.
Or if he was just looking at it. So just so everyone knows, he's
not Speaking of it, but he is. He has taken off his watch and
he is looking at it and. Look at those stripes.
Yeah, the stripes are really cool.
They were actually originally designed for a function.
Okay, that is no longer necessary.
What do you think that is? A function?
Yeah, the striping. Yeah, it was.
It was functional. It was useful, I should say.
For positioning maybe? No, it was for dust collecting.
Wait, what? Well, because I mean, nowadays
you're in these manufacturers that have really like created
dust free environments as much as possible.
So that's not what they were doing.
But in in the past, they were actually this, you know, the
uneven surfaces were to kind of catch the dust bunnies.
Really. No one online said dust bunnies,
but I would like. Oh, you added bunnies?
I wanted to add bunnies. That's really interesting.
So then you have like stippling, which is spotting.
This is creating a texture of overlapping small circles.
It's very expensive to perform. I think most of these are.
Yes. And glage is a beveling of the
edges of the movement components to create a smooth, polished
finish. Again, these are all things that
are just to make it look more beautiful.
Yeah. And then Prolage, which I am
highly trained. I like, you know, help.
The movement How many times did you?
Like 30, cool, highly trained. This is a technique, and it's
like these small dots are applied to the surface and
they're often used on the visible parts of the movement.
Again, in these descriptions, obviously it's a little hard
when we're just talking through them, but I think the main thing
is that the watchmakers who are trained to do these, they're
doing it so precisely. They're making sure that like,
each piece of the movement is really, really beautiful.
Yeah. So I think that's pretty cool.
But just the, you know, like the what?
But then also there's just engraving.
And then a lot of this can be done either by hand or machine.
And especially when it's by hand, it requires a very steady
hand and then a deep. Knowledge.
Of drawing techniques, it's like.
When you were younger, you chose either surgeon or engraver like
because you you. You choose.
Not me personally. I'm saying.
The people who are doing these engravings with these super
steady hands, their option was well, there's probably more.
Options yes, but it is but it is really amazing to think about
and this got me thinking about my Chopard skeleton because it
has this beautiful hand engraving and the way that
typically works like all over the movement and you get to see
it because skeleton we're we'll do history of skeleton watches
later. I started going on that path but
we will not. This is like a 2.
Hour. That should be a Halloween
episode. Oh no, but that would be.
Oh, that would be now we're gonna have a late skeletonized
Halloween episode. That's an awesome.
Idea later in November. OK, anyway, but so when they're
hand engraving, the engraver usually sketches the designs on
paper and then they sometimes do it directly on the metal and
then they're using tools like in like gravers, these tiny chisels
to meticulously carve the design into the metal.
So that's something where, yes, it happens for the dial, like
the Noahita, which we love. Like Connor San is hand
engraving everything. He's, you know, like when you
see numbers on the dial, It's him, hand engraved.
Yeah. One person did that.
It's like Kudoke movements. They, they, they have a lot of
engraving on the movements, depending on which movement it
is. And I think Steven Kudoke does
all of the engraving still. Maybe not still, but yeah.
But really cool to think about that like by hand, so on the
movement, but also people are doing it on the dials.
And then you have this like line engraving, you have stippling,
you have cross hatching. And it's just really interesting
to think about how much work is put into something that
sometimes you don't see. Yeah, because a lot of very well
decorated movements are behind closed case backs and you will
never see them. No, and this is where I was
like, I'm going to ask AI why would you finish a movement and
a watch that isn't visible? And this is a great answer.
So I'm just reading it directly word for word.
It's about dedication to the craft, my friend.
Are you friends with this AI? No, Finishing a movement, even
when it's hidden, speaks volumes about a watchmaker's pride in
their work. It's an unspoken promise of
quality and excellence. It's also a nod to those in the
know, other watchmakers and collectors who appreciate such
artistry. And, of course, it's about
maintaining the tradition and heritage of fine watchmaking.
They don't cut corners, even if you never see it.
Pretty epic, right? I don't know.
Why would you add the pretty epic, right?
No, I did not. Why are you so casual?
That's very chatty. Yeah, I guess I I did write
like, why wouldn't you finish a move?
Why would you finish a move and that isn't?
Physical. You're not going to even look at
it, OK. But I really I did like that.
Actually is a sensical. Answer it's a very good answer
and it is also true like it and I mean even looking on the
normal website, they they also said that about how it's really
about letting you know know that the craftsmanship is up to the
highest standard and I really like that I think that's super
cool. It's kind of what you were
talking about with the open case back.
So there we're still, there's still choices and decisions made
by brands to make it look. Yeah.
To, you know, the way they want it to look, so when you see it.
So but that that's interesting because you are someone who has
always said that you won't buy white gold because you can't see
that it's gold because it looks the same as steel basic Exactly.
It does look slightly different, but to if you just glance at it,
it could be steel. Yeah.
So a decorated movement that's behind a closed case bag.
I don't want it, No no no. Just just cut some corners on
the inside. Well, you're Royal Oak is a
watch with a closed case bag and I'm guessing it has a beautiful,
a beautiful movement. Yeah, but.
Still decorated, Yeah. No, I mean, look, I think then
you should show it. But then I was thinking about
like, why do people want decorated movements in the 1st
place? So obviously you have this
aesthetic appeal, like intricate designs, it's this level of
craftsmanship, but then you also have like it is it makes it more
exclusive. It's high end luxury watches.
It can be that you know, a symbol of like how well the
watch was made. Then you have the craftsmanship,
which I think is the really cool part, the time and skill used to
actually decorate the movement like using the watchmakers
expertise and and dedication. And then you have the value,
which is that a well decorated movement can just increase the
value. But I will say you also paid for
that because see exclusivity. Well, it but it does depend.
So we've talked a lot about at different price points or at
lower price points, and that can mean different things to
different people. But at lower price points,
brands, you know, the manufacturer is making choices
on where to spend the money. And often you'll see the a brand
will maybe spend all the money on the dial, right?
And they really put a lot of extra work into the dial and
sometimes it's the case and sometimes it's something else.
But sometimes you know, they're going more for a well balanced
type of thing where where you don't notice any particular
thing. But one thing I I have noticed a
lot, and I'm looking at it again because you were talking about
movements. I happened to be wearing my
limited edition Tankante. The high fish grow and I think
this movement is beautifully decorated, especially when you
think of the price, it's like under €2000.00.
So it usually under €2000. The money is spent elsewhere and
you can see it elsewhere and you don't get to see it on the
movement. But I do like on this watch and
others that I've seen where they've like put that effort in,
even even if it's not a Royal Oak.
Yes, but I mean by hand decoration, it does require a
lot of extra labor, you know, So it is, it is the mark of luxury
and high quality watchmaking just because you've actually
taken the time and effort. To and even even machine
decoration. Yeah, even.
Yeah, exactly. Still takes more time.
It takes more time. Yeah.
And set up and machinery and there's cost involved in all of
that, yeah. Good times.
So decorations. Decorations.
I will. I think I'm becoming.
I would have said prior to this that I like didn't care that
much about the movement decorations or like that I
didn't. It wasn't a factor.
It wasn't a factor, but now I think it might be.
I might pay attention a little more.
Like you like, whether or not a movement is decorated and
visible to you may have an effect on whether or not you
want that watch I. Don't know, that makes it sound
like a lot deeper of a relationship to the.
I'm just saying I might think about it.
Casually kind. Of like a only hour.
Bye everyone. Bye.