Welcome to this Watch live. Hi, I'm Lydia Winters.
And I'm Boo booing. And today is a holiday in
Sweden. It is.
But I love you all so much. I'm still up in the morning
recording. That's like a high level of
love. That's why I'm saying it.
I mean, last night you did say like, hey, wait, tomorrow's a
holiday. Should we record?
I was like, oh man, we didn't tell anyone.
Yeah, we. Can't just disappear.
But anyway, that's just to say thank you for being here.
You're amazing. Super happy to be here today.
Well, not you. I meant the listeners.
No, I was saying that to them. Today we have a question.
Hi, Lydia. Hey Vu, this is Jim in
California. Got a question about dates in
three parts. How important is it to you?
What percentage of your collection has a date and where
do you like it to be? 3 o'clock?
6:00 That weird 430 o'clock? Looking forward to your answer.
Love the podcast. Thanks a lot.
Bye. I love dates.
Done. Answer complete.
Lydia loves dates. Yes, I this is such a great
question. Dates seem to be like the
biggest platform for certain people's complaints, yeah?
But that's because there's different choices, so that's
what. We love many choices.
That's why we all love debating and watches is anything that has
multiple choices where you can say your choice is wrong.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it is.
Not all of the above. Yours is awful.
I think maybe when I really just first started getting into the
watch enthusiast community like this is, you know, over 10 years
ago, just so back then it was mainly like forums.
I I think I learned very quickly that date was something you
can't just take for granted whether or not there's a date.
Where is the date? How is it executed?
Does it have a little baby cyclops?
Very divisive. Yeah, that's its own.
That's its own full podcast of people hating the cyclops.
But I I do think this is the source of much complaining, but
then also the opposite of what is the opposite of complaining?
Joy. I guess is it?
Is it though? I don't think so.
I don't know. Complaints.
Oh yeah, I definitely don't think the opposite of
complaining is counter complaints I like.
Counter. Yeah.
OK. No.
I like when people complain that I can counter complain.
Yeah, that's, yeah, that's very you.
OK so I wanted to 1st go over like some of the common issues
that I've seen people talk about when it comes to the the hot
topic of days. The the first one is of course
like whether or not the date should exist on a watch.
OK, well yeah, you can debate that.
I think it's more of if it's important to you, is it useful
to your everyday like it is you. This is useful to a lot of
people. Yeah, and if if someone says but
I don't care about the date, well, you can't really argue
that. It's like, OK then for you, I
totally understand why. What you're saying is you do not
care what date it is, or you don't need a watch to tell you
what date it is and you already know from other ways, then
you're good to go. So this is hard to argue
against, but the next one would be that dates don't fit the
style of the watch. Like the specific date on a
specific model. Just any day answer SO.
Like OK. Certain styles of watch should
not have a date like a dive watch.
And the argument is, you know, dive watch is meant for diving
when you're underwater looking at sharks.
Like what if you have to write a check and you're like, what's
the day to? A shark.
Yeah, a shark. Check.
You're underwater. You don't need the date because
you're not underwater for multiple days at a time.
So the date is not valuable to you at all.
And I I do remember I read an article, I don't know, fairly
recently and it was about the Reggae type 20 release and the
person was arguing that a fighter pilot like they go up
and fight for just a few hours. There is no reason that there's
a date on that watch. And so then to me, I was like,
so are we of the mindset that even back in the day when these
watches were the tools that needed to be used, that after
you were done doing the thing you were doing like you have to?
Take that watch. Off or or fighter piloting.
I think that's what it's called. You would just take off that
watch and put on your Normie watch.
Yeah, it definitely. It just feels like, isn't that
just, you know, go anywhere, do anything, watch.
You're like sometimes I'm you know, but maybe.
It wasn't like. Writing checks and sometimes I'm
a fighter pilot 'cause like. This guy.
So now people wear dive computers when they dive, right?
But you probably don't wear your dive computer all day.
You put it on to do the dive. So if a dive watch was truly
considered just a diving tool, then maybe they did just put it
on, go for the dive, come out, and then they take it off and
they'd put on their other watch. I guess it's possible.
I don't know. I wasn't a diver in the 1950s.
Yeah, I don't know if you knew that.
I did. But the color of the date wheel
is also another huge issue. For people, this is my platform,
though before I was like anyone can have anything they want, no.
So OK, first of all, I still agree anyone can have it.
It's just that the color of the date wheel bothers me immensely
depending on the look of the watch.
So I can't say that like I only like it if it matches or I only
like it if it doesn't watch. Here's the thing, I think that a
lot of date wheels that are matching, I'm doing air quotes,
so you already know my feelings. Air quotes, again, no, they
don't actually match because the look of the dial is like a
slightly different blue or a slight and then no.
Which is? A no go fan from a
manufacturing. Process, but not for Lydia likes
it. Stamp of approval because I just
find that very jarring. I actually prefer the date
window to be the the contrast color I think to me like for my
sensibilities. I really like that I did love
popping crowns. Chris one of our friends of the
podcast, he actually just posted about the new Tudor chronograph.
The pink one, the inner Miami CF watch you can tell I don't
sports and he's he said he loved it because of the pink but then
he said the non color matched wheel would have bothered me
forever. So I I do agree that like the
color of the date wheel and the placement can be a go or no go
on a watch. I disagree on this point Chris
though, 'cause I actually like the complimentary the white.
It matches the indices. And so to me.
I think they probably would have made the pink a little wrong and
then I would have hated. It I think typically when people
are complaining about the non color match date wheel, it's
that it's just white. Yeah, it's like which is the
default, right? It's just a white disc, and I
think that works really well when your indices are also
white. Yes, agree.
And large and I think it can maybe stand out in not the most
complementary way If your indices are different, like if
you just have metal indices or or or, the shape of them doesn't
work out well to. Have oh the I forgot the shape
of the date we. Know.
Sometimes you get some weird ones.
For me. Weird.
For me.
For you. OK.
But before we actually talk about the positions, I wanted to
do quick history. It seems like in 1915 like a
very small brand did the first date window, but then actually
Movado was the first cereal produced watch with a date
window in 1915. And then it took another 15
years, until in 1930 a swish company called Mimo actually
introduced a date window at 3:00, which counters people who
said that Rolex originated it in 1945.
With the date just it's more that Rolex popularized.
Popularized. Popularized in 1945, and then it
became more of a standard. It's interesting that individual
brands do a great job of celebrating the anniversaries of
their accomplishments. But then like you have something
like the first date ever. It's not like a bunch of brands
came together and they're like we're doing a big deal about.
Dates this year exactly. It kind of trickles out. 2015
wasn't like the year of date. Watch.
No. And I mean even if you look at
this, so Movado is 15 years before the 1st Switch Swiss
watch brand at 1930 and then Rolex introduces it at 1945.
So you can really see how this. Was slow.
This was slow back then. Oh, this?
Well, this how slow the watch industry is.
Maybe it's speed up a. Little anymore.
Things were different back then. But yeah, so 3:00 is the most
popular. It's the default date position.
If you're putting a date on a watch, it's probably at 3:00.
O'clock Yes, and I have a. So to actually answer the
question, I have quite a few date watches and mainly there at
3:00. So my Rolex Day trust which you
know those started in 1945 has it.
And then also my GMT master two, my tutor mini sub, probably a
lot of other ones that I'm getting.
My Seiko. Yes.
So many. Yep.
Your IWC probably should have looked at these.
So mostly. So any anyway to say?
Mostly I'm a 3:00. You are mostly 3.
O'clock, but I do have. Because you chose that?
Or is it because that's the default?
Could be a bit of both, but I do have a watch.
That is what brings us to our next one, which is 6:00.
Yeah. And that is my Oris cotton
candy. Yes.
Yeah. And I diver 65.
The 6:00 is like popular for some people because at least it
keeps the dials symmetrical. You know when it's at 3:00 or
any other position but but six or 12:00?
Then it's it's You've got a little bit of asymmetry going.
Well, yeah, I mean everything is weighted towards the 3:00 side
including the crown. So you actually do have that.
I I like that look, but I also really like the date window on
at six. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it it, it is a
nice place to put it. But then there's the as, as Jim
said, the 4:30 o'clock position, which I've seen mostly on like
Seiko's and Zenith, like the Zenith El Primero.
I like this one because it doesn't replace an index, it's
tucked in between. OK, I've not seen every single
one, but typically when I see this, it's tucked in between the
4:00 and 5:00 indices. So then you still have all your
indices, you're not breaking that up, and you also get to
have a date. But this is where the shape
starts getting weird. The shape of the window.
Yeah, it can. Because it's, you're on the
curve. Yeah, yeah.
You're on the curve. Things you have to figure out,
like which thing is I don't, I don't hate it.
But it's still, it's like it's not really like it's not a box
at that point. It's like becoming something
else. Yeah, typically not.
Then you have the 9:00 position, which is very rare.
I've seen it only a few times and reading the comments on
those posts is quite interesting.
Well, isn't that what happened when when the the left-handed
Rolex GMT came out and you looked at IT, people couldn't at
first figure out like what? What's going on here?
Yeah. And then you're like, oh, the
date's at 9, the crown is at 9. Like, well, you know, yeah.
So the interesting thing that I've seen on the very few
watches I've seen announced with the 9:00 date is it it really
does bring people together because both date lovers and
date haters are able to come together and hate the 9:00 date
together. Oh, I love that.
There's this thing where where you say, like, you know, dog
people and cat people can all agree that bird people are
weird. I've my family has owned a bird,
so I can say that. And.
We've owned birds, and honestly, we are.
Weird and dogs and cats. I've had all these.
Then you've got pointer date with like a central.
Pointer. Date pointing to a date around
the dial. My best example of this is
Oris's Big Crown Pointer Date I love.
So good. I love that watch.
I love that watch too. And I really feel like I need
one in. My collection.
Oh, we need to go shopping. Share a watch 'cause I think we
we haven't updated that you have not shared any watches with me
anyway, OK, we'll keep going with dates.
Sub dial date. You know, that's another way to
do a date. Yeah, that's kind of I.
Don't see that that often, but it's a way to do it.
You can, especially if the sub dial is at six, it can be
symmetrical and kind of out of the way.
Yeah. You don't really see that on its
own. It's more of in a perpetual
calendar, yeah. You know, part of a moon phase
or part of something else and then you've got the like that
dial edge date like the Nomos Tongente update where it's like
all the way on the edge. And I like this one because it's
really low key. It doesn't break the symmetry,
and it's still very easy to read, but my favorite.
My favorite, yeah, this is absolutely your favorite is
hands down but. But this isn't necessarily even
about where it's placed. But I love a big date, and my
favorites are by a Longo, Unzona and Glasutte Original Big date.
Love them. I want a big date.
Watch. I love them.
And a lot of times they're kind of like can't they be at
basically 12 or kind of on the spot, you know like.
In between 12:00. And two, yeah.
Well, because like the long A1 is is probably one of the more
well known watches that has a big date and it's an
asymmetrical dial already where you have a smaller watch face
and the date is outside of that. So it it kind of doesn't matter
where it is in terms of it's not at a specific time on the dial
because it's outside of the time keeping.
Yeah, I really want a watch, mainly alonga with a big date,
'cause I think it is so amazing. And sometimes when I see watches
that they make without the big date, I'm just like, but I but
you know, that's if I had one so I could understand if you had a
variety or like, oh, I don't need the big date on all of my
long, but for me, I'm like, I really want it.
But it does. Yeah, it it's great both ways,
but I think I'd go big date. Yeah.
And then there's the adorned and then not adorned date window.
So like both Grand Seikos that I've owned have a frame around
the date window. Oh yeah, that does change the
look a lot. Really changes the look and it
OK. There's so many different
designs this. This is not universal, but in
some ways like it makes the date feel completely intentional.
Yeah, I can. See that?
You put a frame around it. It doesn't feel like an
afterthought. Or a cyclops.
I know it's divisive, but
honestly it's the date. I can read the best because it's
like it's bigger, yeah. It's a big date without actually
having a. Big date, yeah.
So yeah. So for you, which watches do you
have that are? I'm not going to try to think
about it right now because I would not be able to remember,
but I'm about half OK. That's a that's a lot.
Actually, I'm I am not about half because of my love of the
Rolex Oyster perpetual line, which therefore takes away all.
Day probably less than half and just think it's half and I.
Will say over time, like I do love having the date.
I think it's very useful, but I love the cleanness of not having
a date of just like a very, but I'm kind of a time only where.
Which makes sense, yeah. When I looked up I just last
night just looked up lists of most popular watches.
Just. In general.
Looked at a bunch of. Those.
That's what you do as a watch collector at night.
You're like, what if I looked at a list of?
Because I wanted to see out of these most popular watch lists
like how many have dates and it's like 9 out of 10.
Oh, OK. Yeah.
You know, and these are just lists made by random, but, but
it showed because I probably looked at maybe 50 different
watches on those lists and the vast majority had dates.
And if you read articles, there are many sources where they say
that sales data, sales data supports that most watch buyers
want a date on their watch and watch buyers are not the same
and they far outnumber watch enthusiasts.
Yeah, dates seem to be more of an enthusiast battle and
everyone else watch buyer. Yeah, is kind.
Of. Yeah, well, there you go.
We have a very, very definitive answer, which is whatever you
like to do, it's it's up to you. And there's no problem either
way. Bye love dates.
Ready. Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye,
bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye.
Bye, Have a great weekend.