I'm totally cool with this. I'm not going to go and cry
anyway. So we were just like saying give
me a second. I've got some in my eye for the
Karen tour. For Pandaria.
For calendar to the. Burning region for Gilneus or
has not done for the Lich King for the.
Cindori for the Alliance for. The Horn for Azeroth.
Hello and welcome back to another episode of For Azeroth.
I am one of your hosts, Manny, AKA the true villain Manny.
And returning triumphant from her travels abroad is Lex.
Lex, how are you and how has the woodwork?
I've been treating you for like half a month now.
I don't know that we could say I returned triumphant, since I
returned very well. Very I'm I'm a whiny little
baby. I returned mildly ill and I've
decided to milk the absolute life out of that.
So which also answers the how is the World of Warcraft treating
me? Not really at all.
I've done a couple. I think I did one mythic plus in
the last bald cycle, which is really sad because I love it and
I'm having a lot of fun and I want to tank and I'm finally
actually kind of getting tanked. Like kind of like Sean has seen
how many times I die as tank. But that's OK.
I'm getting there. I'm learning, I'm figuring it
out. I learned that demon spikes is
actually not optional, which I will just say I think it's not
optional to be listed on the core rotation instead of like
you have to Scroll down 5 pages and it's like, you should always
keep demon spikes up girl. Then why is it on the core
rotation? But that's OK, I'm not upset.
It's fine. We figured it out.
But it's pure cooldown. It doesn't actually use any of
your resources, right? It doesn't.
I don't, I don't know what I'm if I, if I'm learning that, but
then I, how am I supposed to know?
I get, I get OK, OK, here's the thing.
I get the logic. Now that I've found where demon
spikes is in the in the page, I understand why it was written
that way. It's very intelligent.
They simply expect me to have brain cells.
Here's the issue. I'm a vengeance tank already.
We've determined I don't have brain cells, only zoom.
So like I, I, I, I saying this is this is my fault, but it's
not my fault. You know, like objectively, this
is my problem. I was the issue here.
I'm the idiot. It did say very clearly, you
want to always keep demon spikes up.
Did she expect me to read like multiple words?
Like I look at, I look at the Pretty Little pictures and then
I'm like, oh, I think that's a rotation.
I don't know how. To do it, it is.
Really. I know I haven't been introduced
yet and that's what to talk. It is really far down here.
It's it's a. It's fairly down scrolling and.
I was like, surely it's right at the top, but it's like it's not
even listed in my. It's like advanced tips like
this is not an advanced, this is a.
Basic core, basic thing. Yeah, yeah, I think.
So militated in this Chili's today.
Honestly, like it's glad, I'm glad that you are taking the
time to learn the other spec for your class.
That gives you a lot more flexibility for like, let's say
one of your raid guys needs to take it take time off to go on
vacation. They want to go visit their
brother and and stuff. And then you like lose one of
your tanks or something. You being able to jump in means
that your 18 it gets to continue and it also just understanding
the different roles. That means that you've been
healing, you're now DPS ING and you're getting your feet into
into tanking. That means you're just going to
have a better understanding of the game.
So I I love it for you. Have you, having spent some time
at tank, have you learned to appreciate what the tank has to
handle better? Have you like learned to
appreciate what the DPS should do to help a tank in it through
those? Well, the first thing I'll say
is I think we might be reaching the point where maybe we have to
start saying that I'm a vengeance mane because the only
time I do havoc is in raid because we have 2 tanks and it's
you know like I'm, I'm not going to be taking either of those
spots and like I. I part of it is just because
it's so much easier to get in, but that's not even true.
I say like, oh, I just I tank mythic plus it's so much easier
to get into mythic plus pugs the tank.
I cannot remember the last time that I've done anything more
than like pug one DPS. I've only been playing with my
Guild and like occasionally I'll swap out for another tank, but
my God do I whine about it not really it's fine if you guys
also want to learn to tank in my rate team, that's OK.
I'll you I'll I'll DPS. It's not a big deal.
It's fine, whatever it's OK, but I whine about it.
I I do really enjoy tanking. I will say I don't know how I
would learn this without people teaching it to me.
The one that's really still breaking my brain.
I have so much trouble in city of threads.
I don't understand what I'm supposed to do in the
conglomeration. Like I literally I've done it so
many times and it really I just like I cry like I and then like
I think I'm supposed to be collecting balls.
But like if I do, then I drag the boss all over and and then
Sean's like, Oh, we should have everyone gather and get the but,
but nobody does. And then all my range is over
there and it's scary. And then I like, and then I get
overwhelmed and I like, I don't. And I've tried to look up guys
guides, but all the guides are like not telling, like
positioning is hard. Like I, I know that this is
going to sound like, I feel like everyone's like, oh, tanks are
so easy. All they do is positioning.
Yeah, that's difficult. Like there's a lot of things you
have to think about to position properly.
And then it's like, is this like, am I able to like bait
this cone or not? And like nobody's going to tell
you, you got to figure that one out on your own or have Sean and
you're telling you what to do. Yeah, it's it's.
It's tricky, but I'm having a lot of fun with it.
So like for those of you at home who don't have like your own
pocket, Sean and your team telling you how to deal with
this stuff, I would like to refer you to Radar iOS Mythic
plus guides. They do include very specific
enemies that you need to be worried about.
The affixes. We do reference them in the
show. That's a really good way of
learning that that sort of stuff.
I think that typically if you do YouTube guy, if you do YouTube
and it's like, oh, this is like the look at the at the dungeon.
You will find some people who do guides, guides on that, though
with the speed that like things are coming out, I think it's not
as frequent as it used to be, like when when seasons were
slower, but there are stuff out there.
I think anybody, any question that you could ask, there's an
entire musical about everything on the Internet, but any
question you could ask, other people are asking it too.
And so there's a demand for those answers.
And so they're out there. So I do, I do suggest that
again, I think Radar IO does a really good job of like their
roots. They'll do roots that are the
beginning of roots. They'll do play like the pros,
which is the higher ones. Somehow we managed to get
through to the guys at Radar IO and now they actually divide it
at 12. So you have like the stuff with
affixes and the stuff without affixes now, and that's really
great. So like that's what I would
suggest for the people at home. But of course you can jump into
the fast discord bit dot LY slash fast discord and ask
questions. We have had some people who've
just been like, hey, I've been like losing threat to like
enhancement shaman. What the hell is going on there?
And we managed to help them out. We've had some people come in
and ask like various questions and we're always wanting to help
because half the time we're asking those questions ourselves
or have asked those questions or you ask a question and we don't
even know. And it's like, huh, at least
somebody in the community knows. And then we find out how to
leave a five star review on Apple.
So. Add to that, yeah, be nice to
your pug tanks. We have such a like tank dirt
and like also healer issue. But it it does seem like it when
I was pugging, it seemed like it was pretty heavily a tank issue.
And so we need people learning tank and it's hard.
Like it is, it is. I mean, like, you know,
whatever, there's you, it's not the end of the world, but like
it is a lot that is on your plate and you can't really like
hand wave it away. So like if you're pugging with
somebody and they're obviously learning, talk to them because
they probably don't have a pocket Shawn or don't you know,
I'm not your mom. But that's my advice as somebody
who likes to pug a lot of mythic plus be nice, be nice to your
mythic plus pug tanks. They are probably learning and
they're probably doing their best.
For sure. So we have yet to introduce
Sean. Hello, Sean.
Manny, that was quite an intro. I'm going to.
I'm going to ask you to keep it short so we can get into the
episode itself. I'm sorry.
Yeah. But like, let's come back after
two weeks. She deserves the line share of
the time. Yeah, no, I get it.
Yeah, game's been great playing with my raid team on an A, my
key team, Valor Reign. I made my trumpet, my trumpet
return to EU healing. I am healing again for the
rating Fates Reforged. A bunch of friends of the show
are on this Guild and they were, they lost a healer, so they
needed somebody. And I thought, you know what?
I don't need to see my family. Let's play some more Warcraft.
For Asroff does not condone Warcraft widows.
Yeah, for legal reasons, it's a joke.
I see my wife plenty. She's sick of me.
See the pre show. Yeah.
OK, Well, I'm, I'm glad for that.
We have seen a lot of people who are being diving into both
Mythic plus into delves, into rating.
It is in full swing. And this week we got huge
changes, hot fixes that have shaken up a lot of things.
So it doesn't really matter what you play, something has been
adjusted that affects you. So the first two that we're
going to deal with or stuff that have sparked a lot of
consternation in the community and they seem like relatively
small changes, but clearly nobody like that.
So the first one is that Zekvir and Zekvir's layers no longer
count towards credit for the Great Vault.
This was because a lot of people were just chain running the
supposedly mage tower level challenge that at the base level
8 is no longer that big of a challenge for many people who
are relatively geared. And as people have been just
trying to, you know, min Max optimize, conserve as much
effort as possible. This seemed to be the fastest
way for people to just fill up their vault.
And so Blizzard came down with a nerf hammer and said, no, not
happening. What do you guys think of this?
Let's let's go to you first, Sean.
I feel like I guess I'm of two minds.
I suspect Zek fear counting towards the weekly fault was a
bug that was never meant to happen and that Blizzard simply
removed it once they realized it was happening.
So I don't really. I don't delve a lot and I'm
beyond a gear point where it matters.
Any characters I have that could still use the gear from delves
are going to run bountiful delves because I need the gear
from delves that I get with the keys in the chests.
But the other side of the coin is who is this hurting?
Just leave it right? If people only have a limited
time every week and they can jump in and blast out eight Zek
fears and they're two hours to play that week, just let them.
Who delves are so irrelevant at this point for anything other
than alts and I guess AOTC only teams there's just go let them
do them anyway all right? There's a lot of there's a lot
of caveats in irrelevant there. So let's let's go to Lex.
You've been seldomly playing the last two weeks, so your gear is
probably not as advanced as Sean, who's been pushing through
halfway through mythic. So I would assume that that that
the vault and the entire row for Dells is still fairly relevant
for you. What about you?
What do you think about this? Yeah.
I mean, what is the whatever 6/5/16, 5:16 that's the year
that it's dropping 216? Six or three at the end, 610 if
you have a map and 616 in the vault.
In the I, I only pay attention to the last two numbers.
Everything else is irrelevant to me.
The first the I'm moving on. I'm I'm not making that joke.
Yeah, so 616 gear is still, I'm 610 item level, so 616 still
feels very good to me. I I will say everyone was like,
Oh yeah, you can fill your whole great vault slot in like 10
minutes. Like, yeah, that's the problem.
Like, I don't know, I, I, I, it was, it was a little funky that
Zac Fear's lair was giving us great vault credit.
I am with Sean. I think it was probably a bug or
they didn't realize that people would literally just sit there
grinding out Zac Fear's vault or Zac Fear's lair for their great
vault. I hear you, Sean, that like, you
know who's being harmed by this? But I mean, at that point, why
can't I fill out my mythic plus line in 10 minutes, right?
Like why can't like to some degree, I think gears being
handed away, what's the meaning of it, right?
Like 616 is is pretty high level.
Like that's hard to get outside of.
Like there's a reason that that like delves my team.
You're right. AORTC only teams love delves
still like we all still do our full line fault line because 616
is nothing to sneeze at for an AORTC only team.
So I think that that like kind of gets into the like the deeper
underlying question of like, how much should World of Warcraft be
catering? Sounds like bad, I think.
But like, how much should we be prioritizing making it so the
people don't feel like they have to grind to play this game?
And like you can do relatively like mid level, like AOTC and
mid level keys with limited effort, given that most of us
are adults, like established in our careers, in our lives, we
have kids, we have families, not me, but other people have kids
and families. So time is limited versus like
if everyone is getting to a certain level than that levels
kind of stops feeling meaningful because everyone's getting
there, right? Like nobody had to work for it.
And that that's a really complex question.
We've talked about that so many times on the show.
We will continue to talk about that so many times on the show.
So basically I kind of am on Blizzard side with this.
I think that like personally, I think that if you are able to
fill out an entire like one of the higher level great vault
slots in 30 minutes, that's not meaningful.
Like at that point they might as well just like you log in and
you get it. That's not true.
I understand you're doing more than that, but still like it.
It's it's a pretty low amount of effort.
I understand why people are frustrated.
I think that it was probably a good call from Blizzard and I
think that it only feels bad because it feels like something
was taken away. I think that we were all no go
for. It I don't think Zekfir's layer
drops loot, does it? So it stops.
Purely to just so it's. Just your vault slots, yeah,
Yeah, I I got to tell you, man, if you still need gear, like if
you still need 616 track gear, I don't think you're clearing
Zekfir 8 times in 10 minutes. I don't think you.
Clearly we are. It's I think it was mostly.
Is it that fast? Yeah, it's super easy.
I mean, like, maybe OK, not 10 minutes, like 30 minutes in
exaggeration. It's probably like an hour of
grinding but still OK. You could you could do 8 delves
in about an hour. Ogre or druid You still threw
them. Just run that earth crawl mine.
Still need to. You still need to do the
objectives along the way. And.
That is going to cause you to pull more stuff that will cause
you to make the and make it longer to Zach fair like this is
sorry. In my opinion, this is Ma of
souls again. It is people who were seeking
their rewards that wanted to do it in the most efficient way
possible. Running through Zechvir's layer
is fun. The first time you get it done
and possibly the next bunch of times you get it done.
That is like I did it on my retribution spec, I did it on
protection spec, I've now done it on holy, I've now done it on
all three roles. Like I've mastered this content.
I think that there is generally something that is fun for people
to do it multiple times. I think that Blizzard has the
numbers and if somebody is doing it 8 * 1 character 8 times the
second character, 8 times the next 6 characters, they're not
doing it for the fun and enjoyment of it.
They are clearly looking to to like maximize the reward that
they get out of it. And so if you are somebody who
does normal or is AOTC so that your other your other tracks
don't just surpass it in terms of item level, yeah, this will
be good. If you are somebody who is
looking for your tear set to get your tear set all all at least
heroic level, it makes sense to fill out this line.
And I believe people were doing this in order to like get the
get the rewards because you don't get end of end of dungeon
gear out of this. This is this is specifically to
fill out the vault to have those extra selections to be like, OK,
I got something I can throw it in the catalyst or I got the the
tier exactly. Or the there's a trinket, a
knife, ritual knife that if you are not in mythic level is
genuinely a competitive trinket against anything you can get in
raid or mythic Plus. But it is not on anybody's best
in slot list because it caps out at that 16616 level that you can
get it from or whatever. I think 619 is the cap of like
that that line. Who knows of a?
Zero track, it's 626 is the cap. 626 Thank you.
Right. And so I think that people can
push for for that reason or, or or another, but genuinely, who
does it hurt? Is is like one of those things
where it's like, if I give away, if I could create $1,000,000 and
give everybody $1,000,000, who does it hurt?
And it's like nobody immediately.
But then the community adjust to it.
We get people who are like nothing in the lower levels of
mythic plus means anything. And now nobody get nobody gets
to like work their way up through Mythic.
Plus we get everybody who is in the raids, who gets normal, who
looks at the gear and there's like, I don't need any of this.
And they jump directly into heroic because they've out
geared it before they've done their natural progression and
the raid gets devalued. And I'm not saying that this is
like a awe things need to be hard.
It's that the progression gets screwed up.
It causes it, it causes people not to like to over gear things
rather than learn through things.
And that causes them to hit a much harder wall when they stop
getting that support of that gear.
And there's also a question of like if you are, let's say you
are a delver only you only do second.
I didn't remove that that gear still exists.
You said it just takes 8 times as long now, right?
You're. Going to run 8 delves instead of
eight, and now you're also going to get hero track gear because
you're running four of them are going to be bountiful with keys.
So they've increased the amount of gear you're going to get by
doing this? No.
Well if you run 4 bountifuls that give you loot that give you
6 or three heroic track loot, that's four more pieces you
weren't getting if you were just doing 8 sectors.
Yes, but you've created a false dichotomy there.
Both options existed prior to this week.
One options gone this week. If you were getting the gear
through doing the doing the bountiful delves right one,
you're playing more and I would suspect that you have a little
bit better practice with your your character though it
doesn't. It's not.
One for one. Doing a delve is not the same as
rating is not the same as mythic.
Plus way harder than doing a delve doing is a single zek fear
is way way outer than doing a single belt I.
Wonder if that's class specific because I have very like I
personally I found it different like just the I guess challenges
is relative. Yeah, relative.
Yeah, like like so, So for me, I have found that like Zek fear,
it's a very like rinse and repeat sort of mechanic focus
thing. And once I kind of got that
dance, it was like a little bit of a pain, but like I can get it
down pretty easily. Delves, I mean, are also kind of
rinse and repeat, but longer. There's more like different
people are doing different things, different things are
going on over here. I gotta remember to gather this.
I gotta go over here. I gotta kill.
Like it feels like there's more going on.
And so going through 8 delves does feel like more of a
personal challenge then just like, OK, I'm gonna go back in
and then, oh, and then he's casting the thing and then I go
over here and I kill the spider web and then, Oh yeah, zoom on
back here. And then I do like it it for me,
that feels like a little bit a little bit easier.
And I mean, like to be fair. Also a lot of guides were very
specifically saying do Zach fear because it's so much faster and
and clean. I will also say, sorry, man.
And then a lot of you speak. No, no, go ahead, go ahead.
I think they're like 6 O Like the people who are benefiting
from 616 gear are not necessarily benefiting from six
O 3 gear. I don't do bountifuls anymore.
They're meaningless to me, right?
It's the same gear though, you just upgrade it.
Yeah, crests are expensive. Crests are the hardest thing.
You're going for if you well, if you already have gear at 616,
you don't need crests, you just need valor stones and you can
optimize your stats or you can catalyze those pieces for your
heroic tier pieces. That's fair.
But so so like I I hear what you're saying there, but like to
push like as I'm so maybe I'm shabbatic hearing I mean.
OK. Sorry to support like in a
little bit, right. If you are going through Dekvier
it is an intense challenge that it is that is more of a
challenge in one sitting then Delves would be in anyone
sitting. But I think that the variety of
challenges in the delves, the things that that pop up gives
you more variety of like of encounters rather than hey, I've
learned how to defeat Zakvir. I know the three major moves
that he does. And I just repeat this at at
nauseam. I think that if you were pushing
an 11 Zakvir, he's going to be just harder and more demanding
because the intensity and the timings and, and, and what's
required of you in one go. But it doesn't require you to
use all of your tool set like you would see in in like the
full range of delves. In my in my opinion, like you
use more of your tool set then you would for a single
encounter. So I think in terms of like
specificity, how much does this mean do not screw up?
Definitely Zekvir is going to going to push that button.
But if it's like, hey, I don't know if this talent is good and
it's like, hey, there's, there's situations in these delves where
this poison cleansing totem is great or your roots are going to
be good. But Zekvir is never going to
demand that I use like a root totem.
I'm mostly going to be OK, stun, disrupt the spider, get out of
the the fear, make sure that I I don't have that, that I have a
movement speed to get out of the frontal that he does.
And roughly that's the that's going to be like make sure I do
it in a way that I don't get a crazy overlap, which is, which
is a different type of challenge, I think.
But here's So if I'm somebody who is doing 8 Zek fears a week
for my to fill my vault, I'm just going to wait for that good
story in Fungal Folly where I can skip everything and I'm
going to run that eight times and it's going to take about the
same amount of time. Sure.
But at that point. More variety of delves.
I'm going to do whatever the easiest fastest delve is 8
times. Yeah, but it doesn't.
I don't see, I don't see how removing Zekfir makes.
How does that? How is that better?
How is spam running one easy delve 8 times different than
spam running Zekfir 8 times? Fairpoint I mean, I guess.
That's what they're going to do. Yeah.
It's what they did to get to 8. Sorry.
No, you're right. And I, I know this is, I'm
getting a little bit more global in my thinking.
And this I, I do think that one of my issues with delves this
season is that it does kind of feel like it became giveaway
here. And I can get into quite a few
opinions on that. But I, I do think that part of
the like delves are complicated because people do think about
them in the mindset of this thing.
I should be able to do, you know, in a couple hours, I feel
to knock out everything I need to do.
It should be fast. It should be easy.
I did feel this a lot when they were nerfing them pretty heavily
because people felt like they were overly challenging.
I was like, but if that's supposed to be like, I think I
said on the show, like if that's supposed to be at the level of
like Mythic 2, then like that's actually kind of the level that
it's supposed to be at. And I think that that's an issue
that their Blizzard's going to have to reckon with overall is,
you know, nobody. And maybe I'm wrong, but I don't
think people, for example, approach Mythic Plus like that
right where they're like, OK, well, I'm just going to like, I
just want to fill out my great vault thing.
So I'm just going to do this. Oh, maybe they do, maybe they
do. I don't know what I'm talking.
About Yeah, I ran 478 Blackbrook holds in Season 3.
Fair enough. Yeah, 100% that's and I have run
mythic 10 mist of Tunis I how many weeks in are we times that
by 8? Fair enough, fair enough.
I take him back 100%. That's what people do.
So I will say that with the way that delves are random from
day-to-day, the, the people who find that perfect delve, it's
going to be different for for each person because there are
people who like will find that perfect, the best delve in the
week and they'll be online at that time during that day to do
it and they'll get it done. But there'll be people who
couldn't play that day and they'll find the next easiest
one. Everybody is going to find the
easiest path available to them, right?
But it's going to it's going to have more variety by default
because of of the way that the delves rotate and vary.
So there's there's going to be some adjustment.
It's not a perfect solution, but I don't want to get into some
sort of Nirvana complex where it's like we couldn't find a
perfect solution. So we're not going to do
anything at all, I do think. Who does that benefit then?
What? Who benefits from this?
I think that the people who are doing Dells who are are going to
find that, hey, the more, the more variety of the system is
now being used and the they'll get they, they will get
something from that, even though it's not the loot that they were
after, they'll get the experience and I'm sorry.
To talk. To somebody to say.
You think people who hyper optimized and ran 8 sectors
because it was fast are going to be happy now that they get to
experience other delves? I think that they will be
rewarded for the experience. I don't think they'll be happy
for it, But I will tell you, there are people who got into
this season of Mythic Plus and are like, this is way harder.
This is garbage. Blizzard Drake, what the hell
you've made, you've made it horrible.
You've destroyed Mythic Plus. There will be people who will
get into next season and will be like, what the hell, Blizzard?
You've made it. You've made it easy.
Everybody's getting everything. You've destroyed Mythic Plus.
Do I think the people who optimize will ever be happy?
No. Am I going to even argue that
there will be a point where it's?
Wrong with optimizing there's I don't think everybody I feel
like people try to like put a negative connotation on min
maxing and optimizing and I don't think we should I.
Would never put Aiden. I just, I just want to know who
wins when they take this option away, who wins from this?
And, and the answer I think is nobody, because the people who
weren't doing it don't care. They're going to keep doing what
they were doing. And the people who were doing it
are now just inconvenienced. And then I have to find the fast
delve and they're going to run that fast delve instead.
And like you said, if somebody can't get on that day, like,
just like having push weeks, if you couldn't get on for a push
week, well, I guess you're out of luck and you're going to run
a slower 1. And now I don't, I just don't.
Yeah, I, I'm going to change my answer from the beginning to I
actually think it's a bad change.
I think any change that doesn't have some group as a benefit
from it when there is nobody being hurt by it, I think then
that feels bad. I wouldn't be surprised to see
this get reverted. I believe, I believe that there
is a long term systemic issue with with everybody just running
the beer fastest thing at the cost of every other piece of
content, right? I believe that there is a cost
in that that does affect the community overall.
It is not immediate. And so the community is this
little like yay, we found a way to cheat the system, right?
And they will always try and cheat the system.
There will always be speedrunners in every game that
will glitch through walls. If they fix the wall, have they
really helped anybody? No.
The people who were going to glitz through the walls are just
going to find a new wall to glitz through.
And the people who weren't going to do it were ever going to do
it. But like, you understand why the
developers would fix that, right?
Not to dogpile on Sean, but I think also like it did it's
it's, I don't know numbers, but it's hard for me to really buy
the argument that like Zac Fear's layer is not
significantly different from other delves when like it was
everyone was saying, oh, you just run Zac Fear's layer, just
run Zac Fear's layer. Wowhead was doing articles about
how Zac Fear's layer is the easiest way to get all these
done. Like it was it was clearly a
significant difference, right? Like this is not a like couple
people are like, maybe you run Zexter's layer instead.
Like it was like anyone with a keyboard who has ever considered
min maxing was saying runs Zexter's layer.
And I think when something gets that much like it, it when when
there's that much of a difference that like it becomes
a cultural norm, it starts to be harder to push back against.
If you like it, like if if if you don't want to like like who?
Who's gonna run other delves in in groups?
If that's if everyone is saying just run Zac fears layer.
It doesn't matter, there's solo content, run it by yourself.
Sure, I mean, first of all, there's there's still you know,
maybe I'm just I I I I take in a lot of pressure that I don't
need, but like I I I did feel a little like if I was doing other
delves. It felt weird, like I felt like
I was doing something wrong. I felt like I was incorrect for
not just running Zac fears layer, but also like not
everyone does run delve solo right?
They're they're, I think maybe this has changed when it stopped
being like face roll cake if you're in a group and I only, I
only run delve solo, but like I I assume there are still some
people. I'm looking for group doing
delves and I cannot imagine that there were any major delve
groups that weren't either doing bountifuls or Zac Fear's layer
on repeat, but I don't know. Ran.
I ran 1 today and for the record it's August 9th.
October 9th and to date I have never killed Zac.
Fear. So fascinating.
It's fun. I couldn't, it was too hard.
Oh, wait, Sean, I'll do. Zac, fear with you.
It's fun. Yeah.
It's OK. I tried once.
I don't need to now. There's no reward in it.
Why would I bother? I'll wait till I.
I'll wait till I'm 636 and I'll come back in one shot over.
The time over the time, John, I can, I can zoom around, I can
fell rush over to the little spider cell.
It generally feels that everybody understands that Zach
Fairs layer was the the fastest, most efficient way to get the
loot. Nobody's arguing that the other
delves were somehow less fun, they were just less efficient.
So this is an argument about like, how much efficiency do
they want to do they want to put into it?
How lopsided do they want to to make this this particular
gearing path? And at that point, like, who
does it hurt? Like I guess nobody in
particular immediately, but like, does it mean that like if
they had said, OK, you know what, we'll leave this season 2
when we switch out Zek Veer for whoever the next one is, they go
change it, then that could be something.
And then just season 1 was degenerate.
But I guarantee you immediately people will be like they've made
season 2 delves way harder. I used to be able to punch out
and we would have the exact same conversation again, just with an
entire season of president and set.
So like, I don't believe there was any way to sort this that
would have made people happier and would have put the needle
where they want it to be in terms of like speed to get
through this. OK, I just don't.
OK, I, I like, I get that no change would there's no change
that could have been made that would make people happy.
But I think that reason stands that nobody is happy with this
change. Are you happy they made this
change? Does this give you joy?
How does it make your life better?
And the answer is you're indifferent because it has no
impact on your life. Elizabeth put all of his work
into making a fun little game for us, and I think that we
should explore it to its fullest.
Yeah. OK, stories Sean.
They have cute little things going on.
You're gonna be really upset. Like I'm about done running
delves unless it's on a rat alt that has no gear because they
have done value to. Me I'm I'm done running delves
like I I have seen people sex with me.
No, because it because I think of people more other than
myself. John, if you really want the
answer, I'm sorry, OK, right. And I don't mean to say it as a
backhanded answer. I just think of like, hey, if
delves they've dealt irrelevant to me and this is a situation,
why would they make those changes, right?
It is faster for somebody who is running like 65 level level 80s
to just hammer them, hammer it through.
But as we're going to be talking about, we want.
To tell them that that's not how they should play.
Well, the pressure becomes the pressure becomes that that is
the way to play as again this this goes into the next change.
So talking about the next change that they did, they change the
way that you get the time walking quest.
Instead of it granting 500 every time you complete it, it's now
500 the first time for the rewarding badges, but only 200
badges subsequent times. What does this mean?
That alts aren't as efficient as at being able to farm up these
badges right And then like it used to be that I would have how
many thousands on one character, how many thousands on another
character and never to and never could I pull it together.
But we're now in the World of War bands, so everybody can pull
it together. If somebody doesn't have like
10s of thousands of these badges, it's because they were
not doing it on alts. But if every, if every alt was I
could get 500, then the developers have to go like, OK,
what's the rate that they can earn this?
What do we need to cost these things as we're going into
refreshing all of these holidays?
And then if you don't have 65 alts or whatever the cap is, I
think it's 65 now you're behind. So you should be doing 65 if
you're 65 volts, if you're a collector.
And that becomes a pressure on, on other people to be like, hey,
I need to run up my alts. All those people who like were
doing the holiday bosses on like, I need to have an army of
alts to get my best chance. And they made the same sort of
adjustment where it's like, hey, first time on your your account,
here's your here's your best chance.
Subsequent times, yeah, you'll still have a chance, but it's
don't worry, it's not worth talking about.
It's a it's a similar sort of setup where it's like, listen,
whatever alt you want to make your focus or whatever character
you want to make your focus or group of characters you want to
make your focus, this is the time investment you can put in.
We are not going to to put it to a situation where you should be
able to like reasonably and reasonably.
It's different for other people feel you need to maintain a much
larger amount because it is that much more efficient to do it in
that manner. And you could make that
argument. It's less an argument for The
Dells, but it's definitely an argument for this.
I think this is a slightly different issue because this
like and Blizzard has been really clear since BlizzCon.
Like they said this so many times it was crazy that they
when they were building war bands they wanted to make alting
easier but not beneficial right? That, like having alts does not
make you suffer more, but it also doesn't mean that you are
having an easier time going through the game.
So we think that this change makes a lot of sense on that
with that mindset and frankly is is still fairly high.
But I I mean, I don't really care.
I don't time walk. So I think that this is more
than balancing alt levels and making it so that like you're
saying, people don't look at also, I think has, or at least I
don't know if they've like verbally said this, but it's
been very clear with their actions.
They don't want us grinding anymore, right?
Like they don't want I can't RAF levels of like grind for people
playing. They want people to feel like
they can log off after a, you know, a reasonable number of
hours in a week and not feel like intense FOMO and not feel
like they're gonna get kicked out of their Guild.
As long as it's as many hours as they decide you should be doing
in delves of. Course.
Don, sorry. We've moved on.
We've moved on, no. Valid.
You're so right. I we, we can, we can, we can dig
in. I have so many thoughts on
delves and how they're balancing delves and how delves affect the
gear system. Don, we can go so crazy.
We can talk about this for hours.
We should have a delve. We should have a deep Delve
episode. I'll I'll delve into the delves
my man, I'm not. I have some thoughts on delves.
OK, yeah. I mean, I guess this is I don't
care what, I have 140,000 of these tokens already.
Who? OK, I'm going to buy everything
when the vendor opens. I think that there's a there's a
couple of things with the currencies that they have to
consider, right. It is how much is already out
there. They're going to refresh all of
the the holiday vendors, including time walking.
We're going to be getting new, new mounts that are coming out
with that. As it stood, I would have like
at least 10,000. I think the, the amounts
themselves were like 5000 or something like that.
And at one point they put out two mounts and I was like,
that's it. Every time after I'm going to
have at least enough to buy 22 mounts.
And Blizzard has all this information.
They're like, well, Manny's got his 10,000 set aside.
Sean's got his 140,000 set aside, but he doesn't really
buy. So let's like weigh that
differently. Lex has got like 50 million set
aside. What in the world was she she
doing? She really liked Legion time
walking that one time and we couldn't stop her.
And then you say. The words I don't do time
walking and was like that's let's let's let's say that's a
lie. Yeah, I mean we have to expect
tuning like this in a war bound world.
Like we talked like they, they, they say right in the post like
they did it going in with reputation.
You know, you you get repped once a week and that is that is
a phenomenal change because that means you don't get to do stuff
on your main once it's lap Max level.
And you know, you're like, I don't want to we want to do Halo
fall. I don't need bountiful keys
anymore. I'll just run this rat alt and
still get the Rep from my account.
And this is the same thing. I'm going to do time walking on
my main, maybe one or two alts and that's it.
I don't get the full 500. OK, no big deal.
I'm really that upset about it. I will just run another alt and
run another, although I have to run another alt.
Anybody who has the number of vaults that would be like in the
in the realm of like if they get all 500, they're going to wreck
the economy already has that many badges and owns everything
anyway. So this is a this effects
nobody. This is just a a change to say I
don't. Think so the the the the people
who are like super super into it but joined later.
They're now behind all the people who were super into it
but joined earlier. And then if they.
Did a reset. Everybody who had the stuff
would feel so disadvantaged. This is again another situation
where. You can't be ahead and behind in
collecting content that doesn't go away.
It's non limited, non time limited content.
You're not a header behind, you just you're going to get it
eventually. Just relax.
People, people will constantly and.
This is why I follow everybody on Twitter.
I follow three people. Me, Lex and Dax.
That's it. People will constantly have FOMO
though. People have constantly have
FOMO. They will.
They just realized he wasn't on the list.
No, no, it's fine. I like respond to Dax's tweets
and then like you see it in the replies, it's good.
I'm totally cool with this. I'm not going to go and cry
anyways. So we were just like saying
like, give me a second, I've got some in my eye.
Aw, Manny, no, I follow you, Manny, I follow you.
Like there's, there are so many people in so many different
positions. It is such a balancing act
because there's so many legacy issues that you have to take it
take into account, you do need to address that.
And like, I'm sure that's why in the upcoming event that we'll be
talking about, there's a new currency.
People keep complaining and be like, listen, why do you keep
making new currencies? It's because because the old one
has been devalued so greatly that if we used it, people would
walk in on the first hour and never need to go back.
And why in the world are we spending our time designing
that? There is guys at some.
Point they have design the content to be fun, so they go
back. Sean Minmaxers don't give a crap
about fun. Min Max is because.
Because we find min maxing to be fun, we generate our own fun.
We don't need Blizzard to make it for us, we will make it
ourselves. Well, if they do a new currency,
if they do a new system. I'm for a new currency by the
way. I think the new currency is
good. Yeah, I know, I know.
But I'm, I'm responding to like your, I believe that people
would hold your, your, your position, right?
And I love min maxing. I love, like trying to, to do as
much as I can within the limitations of what I can do
right? And I will find fun if they
bring back an old currency, if they create a new currency, if
they have a currency that degrades over time, I will find
the fun in min maxing that. So in that way, it doesn't
matter what they do. The min maxers are going to find
their fun, right? For the people who want to
engage with with this, they have to look at the legacy issues.
They also have to look at seeing like, oh, this dark moon fair
ride gives you this many tickets for spending this much time and
this dark moon fair ride gives you this many tickets for this
much time. So do we cap it so you can only
do 11 each time Dark Moon Fair comes up?
Or do we allow people to just keep doing the same thing over
and over again because that's where they find the fun?
And then it becomes like a, oh, shoot, we had somebody who
stayed up 82 hours straight just doing the same thing over and
over again. And maybe this wasn't the best
thing we could have done because now they've ballooned the ticket
market or something like that. So like this, always these
things. And the other thing about an MMO
is that like nothing like people are going to inherently feel
pressure off of each other, right?
So like you mid Max are people can be like, Oh well, I enjoy
mid maxing. But then the rest of us who are
normal with normal brains but just want to be able to keep up
with you guys in content so we can run mythic plus.
We'll be like, well, I guess I have to do that too then since
we're all grinding, I'll do mythic plus.
As long as you're nice and friendly and you don't mind when
I die 50 times because I don't know what I'm doing, I'll do
mythic plus with you. DM me, hit a girl up.
I tried. You told me you were sick.
You faked an illness. Yeah, but that's because she
just wants to leave you to your 10s and stuff.
We can do. We can swap.
Germs. And you can sleep all day and I
can go off and like, look at trees like I want to, and then
we can talk about who's faking what.
All right, let's set up a fascon selection.
I can swap germs and I can spend 18 hours a day.
I don't know why but swap germs. This sounds so wrong, but we
were talking. About.
Legacy content. Not what I meant.
You didn't start it though. Anyways, I'm certain it's not
what Alexa meant either. Legacy content is something that
Wow needs to deal with. They have to keep that bound.
But the great part of it is that that means that you have a
legacy. And the big thing that is coming
up is that we get to celebrate that legacy.
They announced that the WOW 20th anniversary patch 11.0 point 5
is going to be going live October 22nd in the NA, October
23rd in EUI don't actually, we do have some people who are
listening to us from Australia. October actually 23rd for you
guys too. So 24th in in Southeast Asia.
So this is it guys 20 years of World of Warcraft 30 years of
Warcraft as a franchise in general.
This is one of like definitely one of the games that is so dear
to me and we get to talk about like where were you?
Where were you back when this anniversary?
They have an entire patch for it that this is the 11 point O .5
patch. We have the event going from
October 22nd all the way through to January 6th.
This is going for through the entirety of the year into the
new year. Probably January 6th is the
Tuesday when they get back to the office.
They're going to. Do you think that's 11.1 or do
you think it'll be 11 point O .7?
5.1 That's going to be like months.
I think it's 11.1 because it's six weeks.
I would. I would if I would a betting
man. Yeah. 11 point O .7 is likely to
be probably. Is I don't think there's a .7 on
the road map, is there? Is there a road map period I?
Think so? Go.
Grab that. Go grab that road map that
you're thinking about. I don't believe there is a there
is a general road map for the War Within though.
I'd love to see a road map for 2025.
That would be great. I believe that they they did.
Say what are? You talking about?
Yeah, sorry, it's it's a math. It's hard.
I'm too busy trying to kill Zekfir.
There is there's a 2024 road map, but there is no 2025 Rd.
Map. So does that 2024 road map say
anything about 11 point O .7? Nope, it says 11 point O .5 in
autumn. There's no winter.
Winter I guess will be. They started with winter, so
that'll probably the start of 2025.
Yeah, that would be December 21st technically I guess is a
winter and just putting that out ahead to be like coming in the
new year sort of thing. Yeah, just ahead of winter would
be it would be pretty cool. So I could see an 11 point O .7
in December, but that is a very short time frame to then go into
11.1 in January. So I could also just say, say
based On this date that we're just going straight into 11
point. 0.7 went live on the internal dev servers one month
ago so. It's like.
The real maybe I like internalize that and thought it
was my own brilliant idea, but I said saw that we'll go.
Thank you, thank you, Patch sniffer.
Credit the patch sniffer. Thank you, Patch sniffer.
Yeah. So that still could happen and
then the event ends. We go into 11 point 0.7 in
January, but that seems like really long like you're saying,
Lex. So I would expect go ahead I.
Think the 11 weeks might work with the holiday and it being
the anniversary patch that could like justify it maybe?
To be fair, I have been saying, I'm like I think I said on the
show that I am worried that Blizzard is like pushing their
devs too hard. And I want them to know that if
they need to take more time, that's OK and they should take
more time. So like, you know, to be fair,
if that's what they need, that's what they need, right?
Like I would rather 11.1, like, you know, yeah, I'll be a little
sad and I'll just, I'll learn how to do high level mythics.
I'll actually get to Keystone Master, which is scary, but like
if, if they need 11 weeks between 11 point O .5 and 11
point O .7 and then they need 11 point O .7 before they go into
11.1, like that's OK. Like genuinely like I, I, let me
put this on record, refer back to this if I ever whine about
length again, like do it. I would much rather that than
Apache or the buggy 11.1, so whatever.
Happened. The other part is, yeah, the
other part is that we are getting a raid with this.
The we have the anniversary raid, which isn't a full on
raid. I don't believe I've seen
anything to say that the item level with this raid that only
goes up to 15 people. Right, it's it's item.
It's par for par with Nurbar Palace.
Yeah, but it's not a higher level is what?
It's the same. It's same here.
Yeah, and it's like 15 people at at cap. 10 to 15, yeah.
Yeah, right. So and it doesn't have a mythic
mode, it's just too heroic. LFR, normal and heroic.
Yes. So there is no mythic level.
We're not going to see full progress of this.
This isn't meant to be a in between in between tier, nor do
I believe that this raid is supposed to like count as like a
hey you got a new raid so you can wait longer for another
raid. No, definitely not.
Definitely Yeah, It's a fun event.
It's ketchup gear. It's a Ketchup gear raid in the
middle. It'll probably be face roll easy
because by the time it comes most of us will already be in,
if not full heroic gear close to it anyway.
Yeah, for the teams that actually raid it into Heroic,
yes, for sure, yeah. Yeah, yeah, sorry.
Yeah, if you, but if you, no matter what, you if you are a
team that only raids normal, by the time this comes out you'll
be full normal gear because it will have been eight weeks of
rating normal and doing your delves for your free heroic
stuff. I think that this is going to be
something where nobody even maybe, no, I'm not gonna sell
that. I'm not selling that.
I understand where you're you're fishing.
You have to understand professional.
I'm trying. To I'm trying to like focus on
my breathing so I don't sniffle into the camera because of my
fake illness. This episode is derailed.
OK, anyways, I think that maybe some teams might actually push
into her work if it is significantly easier.
They might feel like inclined to like give that push and maybe
that'll allow teams that are like if they are pushing hard to
like then be able to take that gear as an additional leg up in
their progress. But also after going for eight
weeks with like the other adjustment that came in, I, I
feel like this, this tear is going to be what we're dealing
with now with Narobar Palace is going to be all pretty much
done. This is going to be, in my mind,
a Ruby sanctum sort of thing. For the people who are just
bored and want to raid. Here's a Here's a fun little
RAID that you can do quick. I am sad about the numbers.
I think that I think our Ray team is more than 15 people.
So like we're not gonna be able to do it or we'd have to sit
people. But we don't like doing that
trash. We're gonna have to split it too
for sure. Yeah, I'll ask I guess, if it's
ten. Yeah, it's an awkward number,
but I I mean, at the very least of all of art, it sounds fun and
cool. I never got to do Black Rock
deaths because I was a child during the time that was out.
You're still a child. I'm 28.
I risk my case. Beyond that, we also getting
time walking. This is the time walking classic
that I'm really glad to see that come back.
I gotta assume that they rework these dungeons a little bit so
that people can run through it a little bit smoother.
It's is it the old school versions like classic true to
classic? Yeah, it's classic Dead Minds.
I can't remember the other ones, but it's definitely the old
versions. It's not the Cataclysm ones.
You know what, this might be the the time walking week that I
skipped the most because I can't stand BC it's.
Amazing. Classic Dead Mines is my
kitchen. And I can't.
I wouldn't want to. Manny, how do you not like BC
Time walking? It is the best.
It's so fast. Now rap time walking is the is
fast. So is BC.
Those dungeons are long. And wide and take way too long.
Shattered shattered halls. Man I love BC time walking
that's didn't just tell Jay hit for me because BC was like when
I was the happiest. Maybe Wrath was when I was the
happiest. BC was when I was with BC was
when I was the soberest. Anyway, that's not even true
either. OK, OK.
Yeah, we're. Going to have a talk after the
episode I. Love for a fact that somebody is
listening to this show that I lived with during Burning
Crusade and they're right now going bulls bullshit.
That was the sober. Bull Ridge.
We used to have, we had a taxi driver that lived in our area,
Special shadow to John Lee. Hope you're still rocking it.
Who we would call at like two or three in the morning to go pick
us up cigarettes and McDonald's and drive it to our apartment
because we were playing Warcraft.
Sober activity. You guys, well, we weren't up
till 3:00 in the morning just playing Warcraft.
You guys both met him. He did those keys with us the
other day, my friend. Wow.
Yeah. Hi.
Buddy. I'm gonna get just more shot
dirt when next time we do keys. Yeah, we've known each other
since we were 10 years old. He stole my Marvel cards to.
Him, honestly, he made AW for him.
And he is screaming at his car stereo right now, so I say that.
They were. The cards were in dispute.
We'll leave it at that, OK? OK.
The big thing that everybody is really happy about, of course,
is the transmog sets that are coming back.
These are the Tier 2 remastered sets for the classes that
weren't around for Tier 2. They are getting in sets that
would be like that the Envision would have existed at that time,
but brought up to today's standards.
Looks amazing. They did the like little post on
social media where it's like when you realize that Wow is 20
years old and it's the paladin getting older, but it's also the
paladin's armor upressing. And I'm like, that's a real nice
way to show off that armor. So big, big W for the Wow social
team. I they also have like a number
of different events. There's a bunch of stuff.
If you guys want to know everything, we have it in the
show notes. But just quickly number one
thing that you're looking forward to, Lex.
Deadlines, you crazy fool. That is so exciting.
That is top of my list. I'm going to do that so much and
I'm going to be such a nostalgia hit, OK?
All right, all right, John, other than classic deadlines.
So deadlines other than classic deadlines.
I'm looking forward to the raid. I think it's going to be a lot
of fun. I'm going to put together A12
main strike force and blast through it every day or once a
week, every week. And just have some vibes in old
BRD and I'm definitely down with that time walking.
I'm going to probably this will be my big alt push for levelling
because those dungeons, they get me right in the fields.
So Lex, if you need any friends to blast time walking with, just
let me know. Well, there's a lot to
celebrate. There's a lot to.
Mount showcase. Dance off.
He got your one. Yeah, no, I'm just trying to
pick one of the other things in here that I'm not going to do it
all that I'm excited for. To somebody who doesn't like
dungeons and raids, feels like they're included in the show,
but I'm really also looking forward to the showing off
special toys that I've earned at the Bizarre.
I'll pick one because I am genuinely excited for the
spiritual successor to the Secrets of Azerov that is going
to be started up there. It is like I think kind of
tongue in cheek. You are a customer service
person. You have to deal with the issues
that people bring to you and I love that concept.
And so that's the spiritual successor for the Secrets of
Azerov. I think that is going to be
cool. I loved when streamers were like
trying to figure it out and then like the next one would come.
I caught up after the fact and was trying to like I, I just
basically was like, OK, you know what?
I watched 1 streamer and they were like, I'm gonna try and
figure this out. And then I'm gonna like refer to
like the guide and they would go through and they'd be like,
where the hell am I supposed to go on this bridge and then look
back this way and look back that way.
Go back and be like, OK, I give up biggest or you're, you're in
chat. Where the hell am I supposed to
go? And so that was a lot of fun.
I love those. Those events that I like will
remember that to this day. That was a lot of fun to watch
people do that. So yeah, I do.
I'm surprised. I, I do have one, so I'm, I'm
hyped. I'm pretty hyped for the 20th
anniversary. I legitimately think there's
something for everyone. I was being facetious, obviously
with my joke about the things that I'm not interested in and
and pretending I was. I am glad that there was
something for everyone, but I am worried.
I have a concern. It's been reported that the
acquisition of the new currency is currently quite slow.
If at the end of this 11 weeks I haven't had the ability to earn
enough currency to buy everything, I'm going to be very
disappointed. They.
Have catch up mechanics. It's Blizzard.
They're they love a catch up mechanic and their favorite
activity there. I I swear to God there's an
entire team that just working on developing catch up mechanics at
any given time. I'll, I'll address this because
you brought it up, but like once you hit a particular amount of
the currency, all of those little daily events start giving
you extra currency like you get you hit break points where you
start getting more currency faster.
So I suspect that it should be OK.
I also think that I. Thought there was a daily cap
that were. You worried about?
I didn't even think of that. I guess hypothetical.
Yeah, but it's a rolling cap. You're going to.
Set the cap low enough that you can't earn everything right if I
cap every day. I need to know that I can buy
everything at the end. Oh, OK.
I mean like. You could jump on to the PTR and
since you've, you've you seem concerned about this, then I
suggest that you look to see because probably people have
have already kind of done the math on like how much everything
is and how much the the daily cap is.
And now you know, the exact dates of months.
So I feel like it's likely that you're going to be able to get
everything. But we will.
He just said he doesn't. Want to do math, Manny?
He has a calculator. Sean's all.
About using the tools. So he hates me, so Sean's going
to do that. He's going to.
Let you know take. That why you're making me do
this? No, because you brought.
You brought up a. Concern that you're valid, that
you feel is valid. Because I just want to be
efficient. No, no.
I'm going to. I'm delegating the work because
I also like to be efficient. I'm not even going to run them
anymore so. So.
John, you're. Going to, you're going to do the
math. You're going to find out.
Let me know before tomorrow afternoon.
I'm just going to complain about it on.
Twitter No, no, you, you let me know we're.
Going to put in an edit that says you can't earn enough and
wait. Till somebody corrects me.
Because the only thing people like more than complaining is
correcting somebody who's wrong. Do it.
Sean, if you mic go do it,
you'll get you'll get the answer before the end of the episode.
OK, you're right. You're right.
It is the best way. To find the answer to something,
make a very bold, very wrong statement about it.
You'll be corrected. Yeah, so lot to.
Celebrate, but we also want to take the time to celebrate the
people who are supporting us at this show.
Thank you to all of our patrons for your patronage.
Fast will always be free, but if you enjoy the content we
produce, please consider supporting us over at our
Patreon that is patreon.com/fa. Zed because I'm Canadian Zed,
not Z going into the next part we have we have three more
topics we're. We're only.
Going to be the the next ones. Are pretty fast and we're going
to do the next two OK yeah, we're not really going to talk
about this class tuning aren't we?
I was really going to we're. Slowing down.
This is why this was Jonah's beats a long as elemental shaman
is dead stop. OK.
Sean, take us through the last aspects that we finally got this
week. All right, we finally got
Zalatat's. Bargain devoured how this works?
There's a healing absorb placed on everybody in the party.
If you don't heal it off or dispel it before it expires,
after 15 seconds it explodes and heals the enemies you're
fighting. If you do heal it off or dispel
it in that amount of time, then you get health and crit for 20
seconds. Find a shaman friend and run
with them this week because poison cleansing totem can clear
it every time. So good because shaman has not
been meta. Enough this.
This season. It's good.
They're eating good. They're eating good.
This. Season waking up every day and I
was like, God give them give. Something to the shamans, Yeah,
I mean every class. Has a way they can deal with
this. Just drink a health potion 5
head but because it'll heal off the healing absorb.
But yeah, it's that's the that's the short answer.
Bring a shaman poison cleansing totem.
I think all of the healers can dispel it.
It's not a healer affix, but the healer can deal with it easier
than anyone else. No, you got a, You got a.
Shaman it doesn't matter what role because the because like
unless you are a priest, unless you are a priest and everybody
is stacked together for that massive spell.
Literally the shaman is the fastest way, the easiest way,
like the least commitment. It's like it's not even close.
It's ridiculous. This affix basically is like
afflicted, except that it's on the player and not on a separate
character. So it's so it's so free if I if
you're running from 2:00 to 12:00 like this, this seems like
the push week. The overlaps aren't aren't an
issue like we have had in previous weeks, because you walk
around with it. If you are anybody who has any
kind of Leech, you're already working against it from the
second it drops in any kind of dispel.
Use a potion 5 head like you're you're saying that Sean's just a
tip for this week. You you this is so you don't get
to pick what my tip is, Manny, I sure.
OK, Sean. What is your just the tip for
this? Week So this week my just the
tip is that for Salat's. Bargain to Fowler.
You can just pop a health potion.
Yeah, you can choose your health potion.
You could do an Algari health potion, which is like a lay on
hands, or you can do a cave dull cave dwellers to light, which
doesn't share a cool down with your Gary health potion, but
instead is a combat potion. Now, you're not going to have
access to your combat potion, but let's be honest, if you're
running below a 12, you're probably not popping combat
potions anyway. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,
whoa. Exclusively right flow are you?
Hold on, Manny, are you in the last?
Time I did a combat potion. Yeah.
Like I'm like I'm now trying to like get between like into 10s
and I'm like, I use them in rates.
I I just stood like a. Ten.
Oh no. Like.
Behind everybody's journey is different.
OK, you are exactly where you were meant to be and we will
play with you. I already said I got rad alts
that I'm using in Delft. Here we go.
They'll come to your keys, yo. OK, we're fine.
We're back, new frogs of Azeroth.
Keys, man, He's got rice. Got that?
Warlock that he's terrible at. He'll bring that everybody will
be on the same man he's created. Warlock No, no, I'm I'm terrible
at. Warlock.
Like totally different. You're working on it.
Here's the deal guys. You could be bad at.
Stuff. There is nothing.
Wrong to be bad at stuff. I am perpetually single because
I'm bad at dating, but I will own that OK moving forward.
Yeah, OK. So let's just quickly run
through this meta. This episode has been so off the
rails. Welcome back Lex.
Warriors continue to be very popular between 2:00 to 6:00 and
7:00 to 11:00, which is really great because warriors are in a
fantastic place. As Sean, you have been promoting
since before to the war with an even came out, so your opinion
is super valid. We do see that as you move into
the Keys 12 and higher, that you're actually seeing Vengeance
Demon Hunters becoming the most popular, as well as seeing
Guardian Druids that we mentioned last last week also
coming in there. It's because we're fun.
We got good vibes. Restoration.
Shamans. Just continue to dominate across
all levels. The the representation is just
ridiculous. I have to believe something is
coming to adjust them because they are just they are the
outlier. Everything else is that we saw
last week is relatively in in play, but this is a case where.
They're going to get nerfed. This.
Isn't the other classes getting put up?
I don't know how you nerf it though.
They're not they're. Not in first place, 'cause
they're blasting, healing so high.
They just have a million utility.
It's the utility. And Sky Fury.
We gave them a raid buff and everybody was like, oh you know
what, they can also cap totem and thunderstorm and shortest
kick on the planet and X and maybe we should bring them.
I also 20% extra. HP every.
Time they heal somebody. They they are.
They are. Likely to adjust that the extra
HP on top. That's the reason that odd Voker
is being used a lot is for that extra cushion for the health.
I suspect that you're likely to see a paladin like shift to the
class tree in a later in a later build, maybe going into 11.1
because I don't see it in sky fury.
No, not for sky fury for the utility you may see like cat
totem get like restricted to GDPS tote Sean.
I don't know. I don't know how you.
Oh, restricted. OK, I see what you're saying.
I see. I don't know, man.
That feels bad to me. They did it for.
Paladins, they have the
president. They it's clearly specifically
Resto that needs to be addressed.
Pruning some of that utility so they can't do everything.
I think is the is the way to address it because it's not like
they heal far better than everybody else.
It's not like there isn't rate utility that's being left on the
floor by the groups that are pushing so high.
It's the extra health. It's the fact that they have
everything. So you got to address those, in
my opinion. Also, they're cutie.
Well, they have good vibes. It's hard.
For me because one of my friends is playing resto.
This year and I played Resto and Amir Roussel and I love Shaman's
guy, I love Shaman and I don't want.
To see it get nerve but at the same time I also.
Understand. Like, hey, a Miss Weaver would
like to get invited once to a key this season.
Just once. Well.
Honestly, in terms of classes, every single class has completed
at least a between 14 to 14 to 12.
I like looked to see when they what the highest was for each
class and so they're all within 2 keys of each other.
Most are have completed 13. That is even going with the fact
that there's going to be a selection bias that is going to
turn these numbers to be a little bit more extreme than
their actual capabilities. But the capability is there for
people to get to those higher keys with any class and it's
it's proven. It's not theoretical in terms of
DPS though. We're also starting to see sort
of a meta build there. Paladins and DKS are really
becoming like mainstays, which is a very melee heavy sort of
set up. That also means, I think that it
kind of hurts Holy Paladin, Holy Paladin Miss Weavers, the ones
that have to get up close, because now everybody's kind of
grouped up. So I think that also sort of
sort of effects things as well. And it's being enabled by Resto
Shaman being able to hang back and do everything from the
distance and do things while moving.
Good grief. Spirit Walker's grace is so good
but so they also need to be addressed.
We should get rid of it. They should block it behind zek
fear. 'S layer completions, but if.
You are interested in keys, just like we said at the top of the
show, we have links to radar IO's route guides.
We have links that show just like the breakdown of of like
how the affixes are coming in, what you can do.
So there's all those resources there, so make sure you check
that out. The last thing that we have to
talk about, of course, is the raid.
We are now past the race to world first.
The top teams have have started coming in.
We're now at a point where the Hall of Fame is sort of what
people are looking at. And then from there it is
cutting edge. I got to ask you, Sean, as
somebody who raised on a mythic level, do you think we're going
to see the Hall of Fame filled faster now that there is no
cross mythic day one, right? And do they even keep keep track
of a Hall of Fame anymore or have they just done away with
it? No, they're still going to keep
track of a Hall of Fame, but I don't think.
It will be filled until there is another massive sweep of nerves.
Especially after the preservation nerves.
A lot of these bosses were only killable because you had dual
preservation evokers healing it. And now that they've been nerfed
one of their one of their builds has been nerfed.
I think without corresponding boss nerfs you're going to have
a real hard time. Kyvesa is still a major wall.
As we start to get the stacking buff it'll help, but if that's
what we're relying on for Hall of Fame teams to clear the raid,
mere mortals can forget it. I think I I wouldn't be shocked
if we didn't see another massive sweep of nerfs on Oven Axe,
Chivasa, Tokencourt and Ansarek before we start to see these
things. 5 bosses entirely. Yeah, oven axe.
Has been killed 200. As of yesterday I looked at this
up. Yesterday 289 guilds had killed
Oven Axe. 289 guilds required two blood death nights to kill
Oven Axe. Zero guilds up until yesterday
had killed it without having two blood death nights.
So all of those nerves that we know when everybody on Twitter
screamed, oh they can't, they gutted it, it's dead.
This will fall over. If you have two geared and
capable blood death nights on your team, there is a theory
that it'll work with a Vengeance DH and a blood death night and
then a third tank to three tank it, but I don't think any teams
have actually done that yet. It's all been two blood.
They should try it because vengeance demon hunters as we.
Know are key to opportunities that have they should and this
is a mythic on heroic. It just none of this applies on
heroic. But yeah, honestly, the last
four bosses, the first four of this raid I think are tuned
probably pretty good teams are killing them at a good pace.
But the last four, like Ian said, we felt that the
difficulty in a mere Dressel was gradual at first, and then you
hit a wall at Smolder on Tin Rule and for Rock, and we don't
want that to happen again. And I guess we all thought that
meant that we're going to smooth out the difficulty curve to the
last boss. But what he meant was he wanted
the entire last half of the raid to be a wall and not just the
last three. OK.
Yeah, well, you mentioned. The 1100.
Guilds stuck on Ovenax, so you. Mentioned the raid.
Buff that is coming in yeah Lex, do you want to take some time
and just explain how this buff works Obviously this is not the
savior Sean wants but this will help some teams progress over
the coming week so how does this work exactly?
Such a good question Manny. So according to the show.
Notes Starting this week, players can now collect Nerve
Bar Finery towards the Severn Threads.
Buff drops off of the boss automatically.
Account wide currency players can only collect up to the
account wide cap of eight this week.
There is a catch up mechanic for those who start late 16 required
to turn in for a 3% bonus to damage and healing somewhere
Strands can stack up to 8 times for a maximum of an 18% bonus.
Sean, do you want to tell us what that means?
Yeah, so. Every boss who kill drops one of
these finery newer bar finery things.
It's it's a currency. It drops off a boss.
If you kill the boss, you loot it.
It goes into your currency tab. If you don't loot the boss, they
mail it to you. You still get it.
So full clear the raid, you get 8.
It takes 2 full clears of the raid on any difficulty to get
16. You turn in those 16 and you get
we think a 3% healing done and damage done bonus war band wide.
So every character in your war band will have this buff once
you do this turn in and that's stacks up to 8 times.
The first time you'll be able to turn it in will be next reset.
So if you're listening to this, the next reset you will be able
to full clear. If you're a team that raids on
Tuesdays, blast LFR when you log in before raid time, get your 8,
turn it in. You have your extra damage jam
for for raid on Tuesday if you want.
Or don't. I mean, I think this is another.
Reason that you're going to see some teams that are like let's
say frog and on Mythic, they're going to go back and just kill
like the last couple of bosses on a lower difficulty, whether
that's LFR to heroic just so that they can make sure that
they roughly hit their eight these first couple of couple of
weeks. Sean, you are right.
I think that is another tip right there.
Make sure that if your team is like OK, we're going to proc
through and we get the 44 bosses and we're trying for that 5th
and hey, we finally got that fifth boss.
Yay. Make sure you are hitting those
last three so that you can get this buff in the following weeks
as well. So that is the really good tip
there. And be nice to each other.
Now LFR. LFR's fun.
Tell them. To have a good time, if anyone's
being mean to each other, be like, don't be mean to each
other. It's LFR.
Have a good time, don't talk. No, it's.
Fun. It's fun.
It's cute having a good time. They're trying to learn.
You could like teach each other. It's really good, it's really
cute. I love LFR, just want to quietly
ignore my chat and get my. Items, please?
Yeah, or you can or you can or you can make friends and.
You can help people with the mechanics and you can be like,
OK, so I think we're not understanding here.
And you can walk them through what people aren't
understanding. And then you guys can have a
good time. You can have fun.
And if anyone's being mean, you could be like, Oh my God,
imagine being such a loser that you're mean to people in LFR.
I'm gonna commit, Sean aside. And I'm gonna AFK.
Straight through. I did that today.
All right, guys, we're gonna. Call it here.
Until next time, may all your hits be crits.