Manny I I I adore you, but your Venari impression is not very
good. No, no, it is I.
Want you to know, don't enter any Venari impression contest.
For Lorderon. For the Karen tour for.
Pandaria. For.
Calendar to the. Burning region for Gilnaeus but
has not died, for the Lich King, for the Sindora, for the
Alliance, for the Horn, for Azeroth.
Hello and welcome back to another episode of For Azeroth.
I am one of your hosts, the Truva Manny AKA Manny, and I am
joined by returning Lex. Lex, how are you and how has the
weeks of World of Warcraft been treating you?
How has 11.2 landed for you? It's been really fun.
I've been having a really good time with it.
I do feel a little overwhelmed just by the sheer number of
things to do. Like I still haven't really
gotten my teeth in phase diving, so it feels like there's some
things that I kind of need to figure out before I officially
say that I am. I'm grounded in 11.2, but I'm
having a lot of fun. I was.
I was not playing a ton last week, which is why I was out.
I had my parents over and now my house has been painted and my
dog learned that she likes the taste of drywall.
But it was very fun and now I am back and I'm actually playing
and I'm ready for raid tomorrow. I've done most of I've done the
whole storyline from last week and most of the storyline from
this week and we're getting into it.
OK. And then somebody else who might
be having a overwhelming week, we have Sean.
Hello, Sean. Mr. Cartridge Rose, how are you?
Hi Manny. I'm doing pretty good.
War Craftsman treating me well.
Been a busy week. It's Wednesday.
I feel like it's Friday. Tuesday we had the NA reset
obviously blasted through the campaign quests and then did a
bunch of M plus. Almost got KSM on the first day.
Then we did normal raid clear with the Guild and a cheeky
little 20 stack LFR. And it's not scummy.
If one of us doesn't need the piece that we win, we give it to
the people that are not in the Guild that are with us.
And today was my first ever race to world.
First casting session on the desk for method and I had a six
hour shift today. Long shift.
Pretty tired, Pretty tired. Now you, you were a natural.
I got to say I I tuned in for for for part of it.
I was actually surprised. And I guess we should do like a
sort of currently what's up with the race to world first as far
as as far as the big guilds are going, they're doing their same
thing. For people who don't tune into
the race to world first, it often starts where you know,
you're doing your splits, you're doing your farms, you're getting
ready to dive in so you can make that impact.
But while the big guilds are normally doing that, we also
usually have some other guilds that aren't really there to like
claim the full title, still getting some early kills.
We normally see some some of those guilds that want to get
put their names out there killing off like the first two
or three bosses early in the race.
And I haven't seen that this tear at this point.
I was actually a little surprised because I because I
was like, oh, well, you know what?
I'm probably just not paying attention.
And then I went over to like the usual suspects to track race
progression. So of course Raider IO among
others. And that leaderboard is blank
the last time I checked. John, am I?
Am I smoking something? Nope, there is no mythic kills
as of recording. So 7:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time
there is no mythic kills. The best pull on plexus Sentinel
is 62.1% from melee mechanics. They did 9 polls on Tuesday.
The 1st boss has an intermission that has a shield phase at the
end of the emission. Had to breakthrough the shield
to stop his cast. Ramping damage will kill you.
His shield alone in that phase had more health than some of the
bosses in heroic. So Mailer mechanics who are the
team that took first kill for both Nurbar Palace and
Liberation of Undermine did 9 Poles realized OK this isn't
going to be it. We need to be better spending
our time in some splits and they jumped over to do splits.
So auspicious start to the race. On top of that, we've seen
people like tearing through normal.
I know a lot of people haven't really had a chance because
we're literally on day 2 for NA and day one for EU.
So we're not going to go into spoilers here.
We're not we're not going to go. It's too deep in that.
If you want some early impressions, Sean and I talked
about our testing on the PTR. So if you want to know like more
about the bosses, go ahead and look back at those episodes.
But I think that what we saw in Liberation of Under Undermine is
sort of playing out again here, where normal seems to be quite
accessible. The step up to heroic is quite
the step up and the step up to mythic apparently is another
magnitude altogether as well. So they have definitely
separated those those difficulties in this tear from
what I what I've been seeing. And based on the race, the world
first so far, I would say that seems to be the case.
Lex, we were saying before the episode, you haven't had a
chance to really jump in. Sean, your team I believe, start
raids Thursday. Yeah, we haven't.
So NA we have an optional night on Tuesday which we cleared
normal and then EU and NA both raid Thursdays.
So it'll be normal for my EU team, heroic for my NA team?
There you go. That's going to be a busy day
for you. So again, we're going to give
our full impressions on a later episode, but good luck to all of
you guys who are rating. And that is going to require a
lot of luck because we have seen actually the Chinese region put
out a huge bounty for their push for race to world first.
China wants the the gold in this.
And so they've put out AI believe it is 500,000.
Sorry, I, I apologize. I don't know the currency.
Yen, I think it is. Yen's Japanese.
Oh well, it looks like a Why it? Does look like a.
Why? Never mind, I'm not going to try
to guess. Yen.
It's yen. I got, I got yelled at.
No, I got yelled at by Jin last time for saying yen.
It's Yuan. I was right.
That's what I was going to say. None of you know that because I
didn't say it out loud. But it's Yuan.
OK, good, good. Shout out to Jin for reminding.
You Jin Death of Live Laugh Floor fame.
Oh yes, of course, Jin of Live Laugh Floor.
OK, good, good. So there you go.
So that that's quite the push and I believe this is still the
same bounty that they kept adding to.
Yeah, every tier that China does not finish in, the top three are
going to win. The prize pool goes up, the
bounty goes up from Nettie's. This isn't we're not at a dollar
amount yet. That makes this like super
appealing. So it's about 70 thousand U.S.
dollars. Obviously the cost of living in
China is different from the cost of living in the US.
So it's not 1:00 to 1:00, but that breaks down to about $1700
per member because you have like the 20 to 30 man raid roster and
then you're going to have anywhere in the range of 10 to
20 support staff from analysts to we core designers to that
kind of stuff. So it's not like a huge payday
for the raid team. You know, people are quick to
say, oh, 70,000 US divided by 20 Raiders and that's it.
But you're not, that's not you would have to pay everybody on
the team for this. So it is, I mean, it's a bigger
prize pool than you get from winning in North America or
Europe, I guess, although their money comes mostly in the form
of sponsors. So yeah, we'll see.
It's China's at a real disadvantage because the the
raid for them doesn't start till Thursday.
So everybody talks about the NA to EU head start and how NA gets
12 to 14 extra hours and how unfair that is.
Well, they get like a day and a half over in China.
So I I don't see a world where a Chinese team, something drastic
would have to happen for a Chinese team to come in 3rd just
because that that X that day and a half delay is such a huge
hurdle to overcome. Have we talked about this
already? Do we know why they don't just
release everything at the same time?
Is it just server load? I assume it's because they hate
fairness. That's true.
I forgot about that. I forgot that it was, it was
simply, I mean, to be fair, it is an NA company and they're
like, we're gonna keep winning. Yeah, we really like when NA
wins. I mean, there's like a number of
reasons behind it. 1 is that like, yes, those server teams
have to be working at its point to like update and do that.
They're the reset is when their reset normally occurs, right?
So it's not like they're they're particularly doing it for the
race the world first where they're setting people back.
It's like no and a is is Tuesday, then then Wednesday is
EU, then Thursday is China. Otherwise you're asking them to
build a a support staff that is doing all three of those servers
at the exact same time for no financial gain for the company.
Company that this seems like a like, not something a profit
driven company would do. And the race the world first is
not officially supported by Blizzard.
As much as people want to say, hey, you guys are catering to
these rates of old first people, this is clearly a point where
they're not. But like.
Final Fantasy 14 releases are global and they have data
centers in all regions. And cross region gameplay I
might add. Looking at you, midnight.
How much later did their servers come out?
Their game released I believe 5-6 years.
Oh, I'm not sure, I'd have to look it up.
Yeah, yeah, I I think like when you're working off of the off of
technology, right and the fact that they haven't moved over
servers, there's there's parts of it and like you could make
that switch. It's just that I also don't
think that like Final Fantasy also supports its race to world
first. So if they do like a no they.
Do Final Fantasy is huge? Yeah, Square they.
Officially support the Race to World.
First, yeah, it's like a massive thing they do which.
Realistically it's a little silly that Blizzard doesn't
right like the race the world first is AI mean.
Maybe it's the people don't want them to like step in and take
over, but I mean, it's, it's a huge it's, it's very much and
it's a thing they benefit off of, right?
Like it's not like the Blizzard team doesn't acknowledge the
existence of the race to world first.
Oh, I'm sure they like they soft supported.
It's definitely they soft supported.
They're talking with the the gals.
They're they invite them to how many events where they have like
exhibition matches and stuff, but like the specific race to
world first, who gets who gets that first kill.
The closest that we have from Blizzard really is the Hall of
Fame leaderboards, where it's like, OK, yeah, we'll put you in
as like, you killed it first. I'm guessing.
And of course, nurfing their bosses so that their players
could get in easier. Yeah, I just read that Final
Fantasy doesn't support the race because they're terrified of
promoting somebody who uses an add on, so never mind and.
The final. Fantasy, never mind.
Oh bad. But you had said that it works
out to like $17170 per per player, but if they do take
first place for some reason that is 1.4 million.
Sorry, yeah. One I might be.
I might. Ohh, you know what?
I might be saying that really embarrassingly wrong.
I didn't even think of that possibility.
OK, that's OK. We're we're making a good faith
attempt. Yeah.
If. If you know don't feel free to
message. I would like to know I'd like to
bright broaden my horizons, but there is a much larger price of
1.4 million if they take first place and that is that what Sean
you're saying is the the long haul.
I think the closest that I've seen is like a that in like
recent memory is 1/5 place finish by a Chinese region team
and I think that was. Skyline.
Yeah, Skyline, which I think is dissolved since then.
Yeah, there's no, there's just no.
You can't start a race a day and a half late and expect to have
any shot at winning it. It's just not possible.
Yeah, yeah, they the teams are so crazy organized and it is a
it is a strange thing because you need a machine that is
running behind you like these world first guilds.
They have not only like the analysts and the like weak, weak
or in like coders that are like that are building the stuff that
they need as they analyze the fight and the players, but they
have like an entire machine that is like getting them the mats
and the resources for the stuff that they they need.
Organizing splits with people all over like the region now,
because like it's regional at this point, there is a big step
up from being even in like a like doing really well, getting
cutting edge Hall of Fame every every tier and being in that
race to world first. And that is I guess something
that maybe we can talk about on a different episode.
But it it it requires A literal infrastructure to be in that
race. And you're right, that day and
1/2 is crushing when you've got a machine that is starting up
that much later. But moving from the race to
world first to us casual players, we've got something big
on the on the horizon and that is my attempt to get a Deathless
Tazewesh run because that's way off the horizon.
I don't expect that I'll be getting that this week.
Sean, are you going to attempt to do a Deathless Tazewesh run
this week? Yeah, we should be able to get
one of these done Saturday or Sunday.
I imagine at that point we will have done probably six of eight
heroic, if not the full raid and lots of mythic plus.
Lots and lots of mythic Plus. We're already doing 10's and
elevens now, so all of our gear drops are at seven O 1.
So we should be able to get a deathless run in by the weekend,
Monday at the latest. But even if you don't get one
in, it's still worth doing the hard mode, especially if you're
not regularly timing 10s because all of the loot drops at one O 6
heroic in the hard mode. And I'm pretty sure yeah, the
completion of it counts as if you ran a + 10.
So even if it takes you 2 hours, it still gives you a + 10 in
your vault, which guarantees you a mythic piece next week.
So if you're somebody who, if you're, you know an individual
or a team or group who, who isn't successfully doing 10s or
can't get into plus 10s or you're struggling to get that
level, get 5 or 4 friends together and run the Tasmvesh
hard mode. Even if you die, finish it
because it'll count in your vault and then you'll get.
If you don't time it, you'll get a nine out of your vault and
you're that much closer to to pushing back into 10s.
OK. It's big worth, big worth to do
this dungeon. All right.
Well with with that in mind, Lex, has hard bone tazewesh been
on your radar or does this make it more enticing to you?
So the deathless one, as I was reading that article, I could
feel my heart rate go up and I was like, that's going to be
really fun for Sean and Manny. They're going to have a great
time fighting for that. Best of luck.
I will not be trying to deathless Tazewesh.
However, I so I haven't just because realistically I've only
been playing 11.2 for like the past like days or so.
I haven't dug much into anything but I really want to.
I think that two seasons ago I jumped in really feet first in
dungeons and I kind of scared myself and, and pushed a little
hard and I needed to back off. Last season.
I think I, I in fact I know I did 0 mythic and I think that
was kind of the opposite. I just, I, I ended up feeling
really stagnant and like I didn't have much to do and I, I
couldn't really catch up. So I'm hoping that we're going
to find a nice little middle ground where I'm doing some
dungeons and I'm not pushing so hard that I'm freaking myself
out. But I'm also not, you know, just
utterly delving it only and calling it a day.
So I do, I, I'm really excited to get into Tazewash.
And I also wasn't really doing dungeons when Tazewash was, came
out originally. I don't think I've done a full
Tazewash run other than the cute little bits.
So I'm excited. I really want to do it.
I think that's gonna be fun. I don't know that I'll jump
right into hard mode for all the reasons that I'm scared of
Mythic Plus, but I'm excited to to get into it and, and play
and, and see how it goes and have a little fun.
But no, I will not be doing Deathless.
I will cry if somebody says we're going to try to do this on
Deathless and I'll die immediately.
So they don't can't do that. Not really, not really.
I wouldn't sabotage my friends if I'm not a jerk.
Well, people who had anxiety because they were afraid that
Lex or one of their friends would sabotage had a lot to say
about this. There was complaints that like,
hey, people are going to grieve Blizzard.
This is insane because like, I don't want to be held hostage.
And Blizzard has sort of addressed part of it.
At the beginning of the the dungeon, you're on the dock
just. We haven't really explained the
deathless Todds the restaurant, have we?
No, no, I'm going about to jump into that.
Yeah, sorry. So yeah, at the beginning
there's like the dock that overseas, overseas like the
boundless beyond or whatever. And so it would be easy for
somebody to jump off and grief a group, especially before you put
in the key, just just to screw you over.
Like let's say you're doing a Mythic plus run and you're like,
yeah, no, we're just want to put input in a key.
Somebody screwing over your Mythic 0 hard mode run like that
would be bad. So people were really concerned
about this. And that's because the way that
this works is that at the beginning of each week you will
have a buff, and that buff is called the Smart Street buff.
That buff goes away as soon as you die in Tazewash.
If you complete the run without without anybody dying, you get
that bonus. In chess that is a guaranteed
mythic loot and that is 5. Pieces of everybody gets a piece
of mythic loot. Everybody gets a piece of mythic
loot that's you don't have to wait for your vault.
You get a piece of a mythic loot, which is amazing and very,
very much something that it can entice people.
But yeah, if anybody loses their buff, then the run fails and has
to be done in your first attempt of the week.
You can't reset and go back into it.
So what? There was a lot of stress
involved involved with this. There were people who were
saying like oh what if somebody exploits me?
Is this why they needed the ban, the ban or sorry the vote kick
system. But this doesn't help with the
because the even if you vote kick and disband the group, that
is still your first attempt. There hasn't been any, any
confirmation from the article that I was reading on Wowhead
about if you're doing your first attempt, let's say three people
are doing their first attempt, two people are not doing their
first attempt. And so three people have the
buff and two people don't What the what that winds up being.
But honestly, I I like that there are there, there's the
ability to do these like challenging non time things.
A lot of people get anxiety just from a timer or don't like the
rush, rush, rush thing. This is a different way of
challenging. Challenging players like being
very strategic and careful with your polls and like trying to be
like, even if you're like lower your defense just to like,
sorry, lower your damage just to be a little bit more defensive.
You could you could do this in a completely different manner.
What was it in Dragonflight where you would do hard mode?
Dawn of the Infinites, Dawn of the Infinites.
Yeah, right. That was that was the same.
Right where? Yeah, you only had one shot each
week. No, no.
No, there's something different about it.
I'm just forgetting what it was. No, I do think you only had one
shot each week because I remember we did it once and we
got to the end and somebody died.
You still couldn't die. It had to be deathless.
We had somebody die with 3% left in the last boss and it cost us
our attempt and we didn't do it again.
So I'm pretty sure it was once a week.
Yeah, and I think it was just in the .5 patch before it went into
rotation. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah. Before before it became Mythic
plus. Before it became mythic, mythic
plus. So it's not like this hasn't
been done before. So I'm I'm a little bit baffled
that people were so up in arms about it.
I think it's because this is such, this is a much bigger
power game. So Dawn of the Infinites was
Mythic 0, and I think you were guaranteeing it wasn't everybody
got a piece. It was it was just their normal
end of dungeon piece and it was only from the last boss.
This can be, this is a guaranteed Myth track piece to
everybody in the party, and it could be any piece from any
boss. And there are multiple trinkets
in this dungeon specifically that are quite good for people.
Well, it also the beginning of a patch is hugely different than a
.5, right? Like just at that .5, a lot of
people have kind of checked out. Yeah.
And we don't care if, like you're getting, you're thrown at
you anyway. Exactly.
I, I think people are upset. I, I mean, I can't speak for
certain because I, I'm personally upset.
I don't care. But I think one of the issues
was that for teams that are fighting for those early kills,
falling behind on this is a massive power loss to your raid
team. If you have a a 20 man raid team
and you don't time this every week, that's 20 pieces of mythic
year you're behind from a team who does time it with their
whole team. So that is 1 issue.
Also the anxiety issue of you know what if you're the one who
causes the death, even if you're playing with friends, you're
still going to feel terrible afterwards.
Even if they tell you it doesn't matter, you're still going to
feel bad. You know, I'm for some people
that is worse than a lot of things.
OK. Sorry, before you jump into
more, I do want to sort of like talk about both of those points
because I think that they're ugly valid points, but they're
points that exist in the game anyways.
Like if you are the person who causes like the .3% wipe, not on
the specific example of the Dawn of the Infinite, but like, let's
just say it's, it's a Prague boss and you're about to, and
you're like, oh man, we're about to like kill, get AOTC or we're
about to kill like this. The normal boss, like day 2 and
you're about to kill normal boss and you get a, you got to wipe
that like, oh man, I, I blanked and, and everything you're going
to feel bad. Like this is a magnitude more
because of the loss of the opportunity.
I mean, that's for the teams that.
But it's it's it's literally 1 not no other source of gear is.
You can try once a week. If you wipe on the boss for as
you see you just pull again. If you break a key, you just go
again. And it's also not like just well
I screwed up so like I can't do this again all like my 4 buddies
who are playing this perfectly and made zero mistakes are also
screwed for the entire week. Yeah, but like, your four
buddies made zero mistakes and you made one mistake.
And like, it's just, it feels so binary.
And I get that. Like that's like such a binary
thing for the teams that are like really caring about the
gear right now. Like if you don't get this every
week you are falling behind. That's the competitiveness of it
in my opinion. Like I don't think it would have
any effect on the race if you could make unlimited amount of
attempts and as long as you can do 1 deathless run in the week,
you get it right. Because then in general, I think
people would just do what they're doing already, which is
doing stuff ahead to make sure that they're comfortably geared
so that they can comfortably get this right.
If they were making attempts earlier, even even when they're
like quote on the bench, which makes it easier for them to
schedule right. I I think that this wouldn't
have the same intrigue like that tension means something.
It means something in both ways. And for like those of us at
home, the the mere mortals at home, right?
If Lex doesn't get this week 1, I don't think like that level of
like, Oh man, I'm forever behind effects you as much.
And I don't think it affects me that that that much.
Sure, but. I think you got to be at your
level, Sean or higher for it, for like it the I'm falling
behind FOMO to really start kicking in.
Yeah, but that I mean, that's that's a massive amount of
guilds. It's like 500 guilds of people,
right for that where that matters, that makes a difference
like that. And I wasn't talking race to a
first level when I said you're. I was talking like the Hall of
Fame to you know, that anywhere, anywhere from from from like 25
to 500 and even above, like there are people who are in
lower ranked guilds who like to push mythic plus itself on, you
know, with a group. If you're in a group that pushes
mythic plus and you don't time this even one week, it doesn't
have to be the first week. If any week you make a mistake,
you're now forever behind that piece of mythic loot.
So and I just think it's harsh because it's the only content
that doesn't allow multiple tries.
Everything else you can try again, but this is this is
overly, I think it's overly punishing.
I think the more I'm thinking about this, I think it should
not have dropped with hash because I, I, I kind of agree
with Manny that like the the point, the reason it's exciting
is that it is limited and it is hard to access.
And I think overwhelmingly there's some degree of like, you
know, I'm not personally super worried about the race world
first folks because they're the best in the world.
And so I, I, I could be wrong. I doubt that they're going to
have a lot of failed deathless hard mode Tazewash if they're
going into it prepped and ready. I but obviously humans make
mistakes and video games are like errors happen.
I'm not saying that it's impossible, but I I'm not super
worried about them. I'm also honestly not super
worried about people at like, you know, high level to mid
casual like or like true casuals like me, because I feel like
we're pretty good at reading like we we can read our own
vibes, right? Like I'm just going to like I
will say to my entire group, I'm not touching that.
Like if you guys want to try your hard mode, deathless Todd
Todd Savesh, please do it before you play with me.
I will not. I'm not going to engage with
that because I know that I would be the like I I I stopped
playing mythic because I had one really bad M plus, because I had
one really bad era Cara run. I would be devastated if I was
trying this. So, like I I just step out of
it, right? For or you're like, I know this
group of friends, like, yeah, I'm going to feel bad, but like
it'll be whatever, right? We we know how to like laugh it
off and keep playing. I do think though, because right
now it's so like loot is not easy to get, especially in
mythic loot and the people who are pushing are pushing for a
thing. I think having that time
limited, like I think this should have this shouldn't have
dropped at least until the end of the race, for example, just
because I feel like it just it's a lot of pressure for really
high reward that isn't really catch up able and will be catch
up able in the future. You know, there'll come a point
that mythic loot will be exciting, but not Oh my God, are
you serious? I get one promised piece of
mythic loot or Oh my God, are you serious?
You're the reason that this entire five group can't get
mythic loot. I just, I, I do think that it's
pretty intense for dropping a patch.
Yeah, like Lex you make some really good points there.
It is most impactful earlier and far less impactful later,
especially as soon as the race is done and as more teams
complete. Yeah, like gearing up after
you've gone through. I don't want to say that this is
just a concern for the race to Walt first teams, because when I
like use your level or higher, Sean as like the words that I
use, I don't mean to say that Sean, you're the you're raceable
first person. Like you.
Are a mythic Raider right who hits your your your cutting edge
consistently? Like I can't think of the last
season that you didn't get cutting edge, right.
And we just talked about the difference between like race,
the world first and the people in the Hall of the Hall of Fame.
Like it's a, it's a larger community that is going to be
concerned about this than just the people you see on like
Twitch. And that I do think that maybe
later on Blizzard could put through like a hot fix or
something that's like, hey guys, now the first 3 attempts, right?
And then later on, now it's the first 55 attempts or something
later on as sort of a almost a soft nerf to allow people to get
more loot to to get into it and like alleviate that and maybe
make it more appealing to a broader audience.
But I do think that the one attempt at the beginning is
somewhat important because this can't be another mythic plus
nearly guaranteed way of getting loot.
Like it has to have some form of tension or otherwise you may as
well just start looking at like, Hey, do we want to just have end
to run loot be that level anymore or not do it at all.
Like there's, there's, there's a very fine line that you have to
you have to walk for reward bounds here.
I mean I would argue that just completing A deathless run is
probably enough tension. It's 9 bosses tuned to the
difficulty of A + 10 with extra mechanics.
Like it's not mythic 0 health pools and that comes with extra
mechanics that aren't seen in mythic plus.
So you can't even practice it. Like there's no I think that's
the issue is like you can't, you're like you just can't
practice it unless you go on the PTR and practice it on the PTR
and like the mechanics change from boss to boss.
So unless you go and watch Avada, I don't know.
I I think like just removing the once a week I think makes this
probably perfect and it's in its implementation.
Leaving the once a week is fine. You know, the people that are
like super crazy about it will do all the research and wait
till the last possible second when they have the most gear
this week to try it. And then those who brick it or
who make a mistake, they'll just be behind.
They will forever be behind this season.
And that, I don't know, that's a bad feeling for people.
OK. I do want to address forever
behind, but go ahead Lex. Oh, I was going to say, how
would you just because this thing, I'm not turning over in
my head. How would you feel if instead of
like loot, it was something like every week there's a new mount
or there's one mount that you get?
Like if it was something that felt a little bit less like,
like this is still a big reward, but it's not devastating if I
don't. It's not like a huge power loss
if I don't get it. I don't personally care about
mounts so that wouldn't be the hook.
That would be a hook for me and I think most mount collectors
aren't going to be able to complete a deathless or ON still
very late in the season. Most of them, most, not all.
There are some mount collectors that are exceptional at Mythic
plus, but I think the majority of them are mount collectors for
a reason and it's because they don't enjoy Wow.
They don't enjoy that content. I, I, I think that mount
collecting is not a direct reflection of your, your
involvement in other areas of the game.
There are people who like love making gold but are amazing
Raiders or people who love collecting mounts but are like
crazy about pet battles. Like it's just, it's just
another vector of interest. So I don't think it, it quite
aligns with like your skill or love for any other part of the
game. If.
You're spending 10 hours a day farming old raids and
collecting. You're not spending that time
getting better at current content.
So your skill level, you know what I mean?
Like you, what you practice is what you're going to be good at,
you know? Sure, but like you can still be
like really good at it and then oh, I got some off time.
I'll collect. You might not have amazing
amount of. Balance.
That's why I said. Still be interested in it.
That I mean, there's a difference between.
I think there's a distinction between, you know somebody who
is a Raider or a mythic plus runner who also likes mounts and
a mount collector. A mount collector plays the game
to collect mounts. Someone like yourself plays the
game for other reasons but also happens to collect mounts.
You know your sole purpose for the game isn't mount collecting.
Right, but like I I'm there are people who will identify
themselves as mount collectors. You probably do not have as many
mounts as as I do, right? There are people who will
identify themselves as like mount collectors who have
cutting edge and and have like pushed deep deeper into the raid
at difficulties that I don't even attempt.
I just, I don't think that the two are aligned.
Like, yes, your time is limited and you, you have to put it
towards something, but there are, there are people who are
just like, better than me at like one thing or another and
therefore don't have to put the time that I put at that thing.
And like, like their interests might align with mine, but
their, their ability, right. And their luck, because mount
collecting is like very much a huge portion of it is luck can
be, can be totally matched. But I did want to talk about
your forever behind comment because that's the other part of
this is that the teams that do get this and get all their teams
and, and such will have a significant power boost and that
will help them in their progression through this season.
Are they forever behind? Yes and no.
There are definitely times where you might have the luck of loot
that I've had this week where you go and you run time walking
because time walking was giving out, giving out heroic.
If you did the the five dungeons or you did the the raid and
killed enough bosses and you happen to get boots and then you
do another thing and you get boots and then you do another
thing and you get belt And it's just like the pieces that you
get might be misaligned in in the fact that like, why was time
walking in this season giving out cloaks?
Why did I get 3 cloaks? Oh, woe is me.
Or or in different ways. So like there's the possibility
that like the the loot isn't going to line line up as well,
right? Somebody who like gets it gets
doesn't, doesn't get a good piece.
Somebody who missed it one week, but the next week gets one of
those really good trinkets. Are they really that far behind?
Like it's, it's, there's a wash in that, But also there's the
fact that like, as these teams progress, as they, they are
pushing loot. They are going to get less from
these dungeons as it's more likely to hit the pieces that
they've already got their best in slot or something along those
lines in so like it isn't quite cut and dry.
And so when when Sean was saying Forever behind, I want to speak
to the audience, it's not like he wasn't thinking these things.
Often times I have conversations with Sean and I'm pedantically
saying things that Sean's already considered.
This is one of those times in my mind.
But I do want to say it because. Because you don't think the
audience will. Be in short form, huh?
Because you don't think the audience is as smart as me.
I think that like people will take you at your word and not
understand that you're short forming stuff and it has to be
spoken out. I want the audience to know that
I would never think that they weren't right with me to fully
answer Lex's question. If this was anything at all
other than mythic loot or shield trans mogs I wouldn't care what
they did with it. But I think if this was a
cosmetic thing that you would see the collector community piss
blood that it was only once a week and that it could be ruined
by somebody jumping off before you start a key.
Rightfully so, they already have the hardest job in the game.
Actually I just have a a super quick question for you guys.
As the less casual to the group, would you guys ever like hug
someone into this? Because I I guess I'm just like
like surprised by the fear of like somebody grieving you.
And I'm like, I cannot imagine doing something this hard and
this precise not with. And I guess, I guess if you're
pugging, if you have to pug, you like, you know, if you don't
have friends who want to do this with you, if you're friends with
me and you're like, Oh my God. Right.
I have a five, I have a five Man Group, but one of them's lack.
So we don't, we don't have anybody for hired mode.
Exactly. OK, I answered my own question.
Yeah, but no, I would not pug. I would.
There is zero chance I will pug this.
I will run this only with guildies and and and friends and
not even all my friends are. You going to run with me, Sean?
Are you going to invite me? No.
That's good. Are you going to invite me?
Because I value your feelings and I know that it would be too
stressful for you and I didn't want I wouldn't want to put you
in that situation. Thank you, Sean.
You're. Welcome.
And I consider Manny a mound collector, so that'll answer the
question of whether or not I'd invite him.
Yeah, I'll see myself out, but for the rest of us mere mortals
that want to get gear there? Is wait for legal reasons.
That was a joke. No, it wasn't.
I'm going to edit out the fact that you said that was a.
Joke. They're going to think I'm so
elitist, they'll be right. That was so good.
That was I'm really, really pleased with myself.
That was very clever. Sorry.
Well, for those of you who are not going to be pushing through
Tasvash hard mode trying to get your deathless runs, there is
more gear stuff coming up as part of a panel that we're going
to be talking about soon. Blizzard has announced that the
turbo boost is going to be coming back in season 3, so
we're looking at 11 point 2.5 again, Turbo boost.
For those of you who have short memories, that is when they
jacked up the levels that you could upgrade your gear by 6.
So you could get two more upgrades at the end of your
mythic track, your hero track or whatever, and gave everybody a
bit of boost of power. This was done in conjunction
with the dinars, but that is a separate system.
Want to make sure that people realize that that that ability
to buy trinkets was separate from this power boost.
I'm really glad that this is the thing coming back.
I think I like this more than the dinar system.
And I say that I'm really glad that this is the thing coming
back. But I think it is like of the
two, which one would I'd like more because I don't think I
like either one of them. To be truthful with you guys,
I've already said on previous things, I dislike how quickly
things become obsolete when you go from season to season.
And I dislike that like part way through the season.
Well, this is when the real push begins, and this is when we can
really see how far you can get in in your keys to see what the
new cap of keys is. And this power creep over the
course of a season means that, like, people who pushed early,
Well, yeah, that was just so you get your gear because the real
push is when these five events concur and give you like, an
extra 25% power. Anyways, that's my complaint
about this, but it's coming back.
What do you guys think? Let's start with you, Lex.
So I like the midway through the season, they're like, oh, it's
OK. I know, I know you don't have
AOTC yet. It's OK here, Here you go.
Yeah, No, you can get extra levels.
It's OK. I think that's good.
So I'm excited it's coming back. I'm sorry, Manny.
Totally fine. Like I understand I am likely in
the vast minority where I'm like, just let me get whatever
my season goal is, let me set at the beginning and be fine with
it, get the gear, see how far I can go and be like, that's where
my limit is. Not like, oh, sorry, that's
before you gave me like head and chance and I'm going back into
it again, Sean, I don't. Really have feelings on this
either. I do have a just a tip though
for everybody because we know this is coming.
You have the ability to trade up your crests at the Drac fear in
Donegal where you can turn your weather into carves.
You're carved into ruined. You're ruined into gilded.
If at all possible do not do that at all this season until
turbo boost. The reason is last season we had
multiple Guild members who never upgraded their crests.
They always just found out their new crests for the week when
turbo boost came they upgraded them all and didn't have to do a
single dungeon to Max out all their gear.
So if you can at all avoid upgrading your crests, do so and
then just farm your Max volto. Farm your Max Crest out every
week. As far as turbos goes, it's I
think it's an elegant way to nerf the raid, but it's so it's
good because it I I, I like when more people can clear the raid.
We are currently liberation of Undermine was the most cleared
raid of, I want to say all time, but if not all time, it was
definitely the first time in forever that the second tier
raid had more clears than the first tier raid did.
It was wildly successful, So many clears, turbo boost, so pro
more teams get to clear clear the content, more people get to
enjoy the content. More people then move up to a
next difficulty of content that they normally wouldn't get to
see. That's a pro Con is if you have
finished really early in the season, now you have to like
come back at the midway point. A lot of people play the game
seasonally. If you finish really early now,
you have to come back at the midway point to catch your
character back up to speed for the preparation into midnight.
I know you're going to say, oh, it doesn't matter midnight
because it's all going to get gear when we level through
midnight and this gear won't matter.
But there are people who need to optimize everything, so they'll
need to do that. Lex, you have a question before
I do my next con. What I was going to say is it's
it's, it's the change on expansion, so.
It's. All going to go away and it's
but like listen, if you if you feel, if you experience joy when
you optimize things knowing that they'll be meaningless, good for
you. That was really that was really
condescending. I'm so sorry.
I mean that genuinely, I genuinely like, play the game
the way that makes you happy. Sorry, what's your next con?
Don't let Lex get you down, she's not going to have any
mythic pieces from Tessa Fishhard mode.
I sure I probably don't have any mythic pieces.
You can. She's going to be so far.
Behind and then my next con is if you're somebody who kills the
raid around that .5 mark turbo boost, it can go one of two
ways. Option one, hey, we get a boost
to get the get past the last boss or two, get over that.
I'm great. But the other side to that is if
you're close to a kill on on dementias and turbo boost kicks
in, you're now robbed of that opportunity to see if you could
have done it at that lower item level because you're going to up
up gear to the next level and get that kill.
So it's trying to pulls the rug out.
It can pull the rug out from under you.
That one. There's no like there's a pro
Anicon there with that one with it coming out of the .5 patch,
yeah. And I guess my only complaint is
that I can't trade crests between my alts and my main SO.
There's a new that comes back with turbo boost.
Sorry. Maybe that comes back with turbo
boost? I don't think we've ever been
able to trade crests between alts.
Oh wait, no crests. I'm thinking valor.
Nevermind. Yeah, yeah, Valor.
Valor is like a nothing burger anyway.
I don't know anybody who's not. So yeah, Valor should just not
exist. For the, for the, for the
listeners at home, I've definitely run out of valor.
OK wait, are you currently valor cap?
Because I think that was what the sentence was going.
I'm surely not. Continue flex, right?
There you go. Now you know.
Casual. We know I'm the casual.
But yeah, it's so I don't know, I just there's like a 0% chance
I'm going to look at Turbo Boost and my 4 alts and think I can't
wait to do 42 more plus twelves for all of them.
And actually I think it was higher than I think it was like
84 I had to do. It was a ridiculous number
anyway. I don't know, I did not mean to
just double that first number. I said, but that's that's what
happened. But that was coming back.
But this isn't news because they told us they had an interview
like a month ago where they said, yeah, we really like Turbo
Boost and we'd like to see something like that come back in
season 3. And then it's like the Internet
forgot that they said that and that they read it.
We actually reported that. Yeah, but they said, they said
they would like to see something like that.
We didn't know exactly and we didn't know if it was going to
so for them to well. And they've never not had like
made like the halfway point of the patch is always when they
just start like finding a way to just throw things at you, which
again, I like because I like the fact that if I have been
struggling with things, they say it's OK.
No, no, no, no, no, it's OK. You don't have to quit Mythic
plus it's OK. Look, you get more.
We knew that interview was legit because it wasn't an Ian quote.
Your hate of Ian. Continues.
I think he's lovely and I think the game has climbed like
decades above where it was since he took over as game director.
I think Ian is doing a fantastic job but I need to be curmudgeon
abled somebody and I think Morgan Day is a sweetheart, so
Ian gets it. Yeah, we got him.
We all have to have the one person that we name and shame on
the podcast, which Manny, you have to pick yours.
Who's the dev that you want to publicly state your dislike of?
Not just like we love you. Yeah, I got none.
I have. I have different people who are
no longer part of Blizzard that I think are absolute ass hats.
But we won't mention you better than this episode.
Let's move on. Manny, he's one of us.
Dear God, something we can all look forward to.
I. Bet you he does it.
Definitely no. Let's not talk about him.
Let's move on. I'm sorry.
OK, so something we can look forward to is the Legion Remix,
which is going to be our last story of this episode.
We had a Wow cast that came out where they unleashed all this
information about Legion remix. It looks like they have taken
the formula for Mr. Pandera Remix and then amped it up a
bit. They talked about how you're
going to have the 12 Legion classes to play through and go
through. That experience is going to be
an accelerated pace. However, it is going to have
some time gating. I said the word time gating.
I'm really sorry guys. You're not going to be able to
kill Argus on day one. Quitting the game.
Yeah, there's a lot of improvements that they have
done, like bronze is purely cosmetic.
That is something I know, Sean, you and I were a little little
giving you a little side eye at 1st and then we realized, hey,
once you get the power, then you'll get enough bronze.
And they made multiple improvements along the way of
Mr. Pandaria so that like we were swimming with bronze by the
end of it, just like Remix before, we're getting a lot of
cosmetics like the pets, the mounts, the transmog gear.
Things that they have said that is that are coming back along
those lines include the artefact weapons, not the mage tower.
People are upset about that friendship Burb coming back as
well as the class mounts, but with a new fell green version
for all of them. I don't know what that means for
warlocks because we already had a fell green version, but this
is like I guess a more fell green Rasteed.
There's also like a number of things, like different variants
of stuff that that didn't exist in Legion, but it's very much
Legion, Legion esque. So Manoroff's shield, the
corrupted version of Varian's sword, which looks so good.
I got to get that for my warrior.
The, the thing that is is exciting me most is that for
world quest for the outdoor world, they are taking a page
from Diablo and actually having different tiers of difficulty
for the, for the world. I'm hoping and like knock on
wood, I'm not going to knock because I don't want this to
screw up the recording. I'm hoping that this is
something that they're testing for the main game because we've
said it here a number of times, or at least I've said it here a
number of times that like outdoor world content need some
teeth. And this might be this might be
exactly what I need. This might be me biting off more
than I could chew and I will be happy for that.
What are you guys excited for in in Legion that I haven't talked
about because there's a number of things in here.
I'm going to throw this one to Sean first.
When am I supposed to play this because I'll be busy gearing my
characters up from the turbo boost during the 11 point 2.5.
Sean, you could always exposure therapy, not maxing everything
like you, you could, you could do that as like a personal goal,
Like I'm going to see how it feels to not do everything that
I can do this season. Sure, Alex, I.
Get where your head's at Alex. But think about it this way, he
would just be like supplanting mid maxing his live character
for supplant for mid maxing his character in Legion.
So would it help at all in that way?
Because you're something we're also not thinking about here.
It just it seems like a lot. I liked that panda like they
mentioned. Hey, we're putting everything
back in all the dungeons, all the raids, all the campaign
quests, all the class, all quests, all the artifact quests
and we're going to time gate it. Every two weeks you get a new
flavorful of this stuff. It just feels like a lot to jam
into the four month window that is .5 up to 12 point O.
And on top of that we have turbo boost like I sort of tongue in
cheek mentioned, but there's going to be midnight alpha at
the exact same time at midnight beta.
Like it's sort of what happened with classic Mop classic
launching right at the same time as 11.2.
And when there are people who genuinely like, severely suffer
from the need to collect everything, who will lose sleep
and 'cause themselves like, not like, it will, it will damage
themselves to make sure they get everything and do all of this
while also doing all those other things.
I feel like it's too much. There's twelve class campaigns.
Pandaria remix that happened during a season 4 right?
Am I fully making that up? Yes, yeah.
So when nothing was happening. Yeah, I do kind of agree that if
you're not going to have a season 4, why are you giving me
filler content? Like respectfully, remix
Pandaria was filler content. To be fair though, I was not a
remix girlie so I've not been paying heavy attention to Legion
in general. Like Legion Remix in general, I
know that it's some people's thing.
So I mean to yuck anyone's Yum. For me personally, it felt like
I didn't get into it right away. And then when I did get into it,
everyone was just like face rolling everything.
Which like, it's fun for a few runs to go through a dungeon and
all you're doing is trot trot trotting behind somebody while
they wipe it out. And then you kind of get sick of
that. But that's my own problem.
I I wasn't playing like Sean. I wasn't even maxing.
And that's my own fault. But yeah, I think I kind of am
on your side with this Sean. That it it it.
This is something to throw in when we're in a lot like a a
content lull, not with a .5. Yeah, there there will be people
who still haven't finished the raid, right?
Like raid teams will still be progressing.
It's, I don't know, it just feels like a lot.
Not to complain endlessly about Blizzard's new road maps, but I
feel like this is kind of the downfall of the road map, which
is that if something is in the road map, they feel like they
have to put it in right. Like if they're going to put a
Legion, maybe I'm wrong, Manny's making face of me that makes me
think that I'm wrong. But if like I, I, I feel like
Legion remix is something to have in your little back pocket
for when you know that your team is going to need help, right?
And they're going to need to be able to have a longer mid patch
or they're going to need to put in a Season 4 that they didn't
originally want. And you need something so that
people don't, you know, send death threats on Twitter.
And you're like, OK, yeah. So we're doing the Season 4.
And while we're announcing Season 4, also Legion Remix,
right? Putting it in on the road map
and making it a part of the game in general leads to it not being
like makes it filler content that has to go in even if you
don't need filler content. Yeah.
I'd love your thoughts. Money.
Oh, I'm going to be the meanest that I can be to do poor
collectors. Even though Sean thinks, and I'm
I'm one of you, get over it. I'm sorry.
I think that part of the thrill of collecting should be the
hunt. I think that.
You have to prioritize. I hate that people go and and
complain every month that I don't have enough tenders to get
everything in the in the trading post.
Well, then you don't get everything in the traders post.
Make priorities. If if this is going to hurt you
to not have everything, then you need to adjust your view.
Like Sean's talking about like, hey, like I want to hunt trans
mog. We want to talk about all trans
mog. He likes shield trans mog
because he prioritizes raiding mythic plus and stuff.
And he's like, I'm not going to collect every trans mog.
That's too much. So even with all the time that
Sean says he has to play on North America and Europe and do
all these things, he, he narrows his focus down so that like he
can maintain sanity and maintain real life relationships.
Like apparently he's got a, a woman that he lives with.
Like I don't want to preach about.
Did you just balance but everything?
In moderation, including Wow, did you?
Just refer to Anjali as a woman that I live with.
I was just giving the general thing like you have
relationships that you maintain that you prioritize, right?
And like I didn't want to like go to down the preachy Rd.
because I'm already like veering so hard into it.
But I think that if you are somebody who wants to get the
stuff from Mr. Pandaria, but sorry rather from Legion Remix,
but also wants to get the stuff currently on on live, yes, you
are going to have to make a choice.
I think that the last patch of a expansion right where the gear
is going to be made relatively obsolete by by the next
expansion and you want to collect everything, then
prioritize Legion remix because that's there temporarily.
And when you are level 90 and able to squash everything in
Koresh, come back and stomp that.
Yes, it's it's going to come at you a little bit faster than you
can deal with right now. But like I also want options for
the people who are like done with Koresh.
Maybe they went through the story and the the story ended
this this week except for the except for the epilogue.
If you happen to be stuck behind the story mode raid clear,
you're going to have to wait for that.
And there are people who aren't doing everything, but they
should still get content. There are people who love love
collecting, don't like rating, but they should still get
collect content. There are people who missed
legion in the 1st place and this is a way cool accessible way to
way to do it. So like, yes, it's not there for
everybody, right? But like, just like how this,
this version of hard mode Tazewesh effects some people,
negatively effects some people, gives some stuff for some people
to do. There are going to be things
where Blitzer's going to put out stuff that maybe isn't for you
or conflicts with stuff that you're already trying to do.
And I think as gamers, we should accept that and not expect them
to put out the perfect calendar. So I can get everything in
classic and everything in retail and then everything when Mr.
Panteria drops. And then poor Sean, who might
not like any of, sorry, I keep saying Mr. Panteria when Legion
drops, and then poor Sean, who doesn't like any of this, has to
wait around 12 months for you to collect everything.
That doesn't feel fair to Sean either.
But Sean, you had a point to to go against this.
Go ahead. It's not to go against it, I
just wanted to know or wanted to ask, do we not have to make
enough sacrifices in real life for things that we want and
can't have? Is it not OK for us to be able
to just get everything in a video game?
Yes and no. That's supposed to bring joy.
It's not supposed to be a microcosm to teach us how to
deal with life. It's just supposed to be a fun
thing we play. OK, I collect mounts and I love
collecting mounts and it's a fun thing.
It's a fun thing I play, but I'm never going to get PvP mounts.
That's always going to be a gap for me, right?
Don't you want and I could do. It and I could or I could be
like Blizzard you should stop doing PvP mounts because mount
collectors and PvP players are completely opposite.
Because those people who get glad they spend their time
fighting, not collecting mounts. That's true, and that seems like
a very silly argument that we would never have on this show.
It's true. I think it's true, yeah.
I mean, the fact you don't have glad mounts proves it.
Sean was right. Yeah.
Go get some glad mounts. Yeah.
I mean, lead. Your remix is probably going to
be fun. I imagine Twitter will love it
because they love things. Yeah.
I don't know. I don't, I know I don't.
I would love to experience. I think it'll be cool to
experience the story of the the classes I haven't play because I
didn't play Legion when it was current.
But just where this is launching, I already know, you
know, And in .7 we're getting housing, so it's like, I don't
know. Yeah.
And it doesn't matter. It'll be playing a solo game
anyway because the world's are all going to be phased as people
playing different difficulties. Yeah, that's the thing that I, I
definitely want to test this out because like the different world
tiers on top of phasing when things get busy or on top of
like different, different realms and stuff, I'm hoping that it
doesn't segment the world too much.
Like there's gonna, there's gonna have to be some, some sort
of thing that they're doing to make this work.
But yeah, no, I'm excited. I'm excited for it, at least the
prospect of it, assuming that I can, you know, find the time.
But you're right. If I'm in like the alpha or the
beta, yeah, sorry, Legion remix, you're taking the backseat.
What about you, Lex? Anything like you're really
excited for in here? I'm.
Probably gonna go in and get some trans monks.
Yeah, that's probably. I did play through lead band and
it was really fun. But I think I'm going to be
trying to get AOTC or after having AOTC or hopefully doing
midnight stuff. And like I said, I was just not
I, I really did not play Pandaria Remix a lot and I was
really excited about Pandaria Remix.
So I'm not counting on me being at all motivated to play lead
remix, but we'll see. There's been plenty of things
that I was like, I do not care about this.
And then it was fun. I can't think of any examples,
but I think they've happened. I believe.
Can I give a special shout out to chat?
The chat just made me chuckle pretty hard.
OK, go, go ahead. After my rebuttal to Manny's
statement, chat said Sean says can't we just collect everything
but also Sean accept anything from mythic filthy casuals?
See, you're, you're, you're a nuanced man.
You're onion. You've got multiple layers
there. It's make me try when I try and
figure a new deal through them. Yeah, we're working with me.
I've been told before that working with me is tear
inducing, so yeah. Well, we're going to call it
here. Thank you so much on and Lex for
for this episode. We'll be back next week.
And until next time guys, may all your hits be crits.