1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,600 Hey, I'm Jeddeth and you're listening to For Azeroth Victory 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,080 for the Forsaken. For Lauderon. 3 00:00:06,560 --> 00:00:10,600 For the Kirintor. For Pandaria. 4 00:00:13,040 --> 00:00:16,520 For calendar. To the burning region. 5 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:24,320 For Gilnaeus but has not died. For the Lich King, For the 6 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,320 Sindora. For the Alliance, for the Horn, 7 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:34,400 for Azeroth. Hello and welcome to another 8 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:38,400 special episode of For Azeroth. We are covering all things 9 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,480 Midnight. With the release of Gamescon and 10 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,320 all of the information coming out, I've been going to the 11 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:48,800 experts to find out what they're talking about and what they 12 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,160 think of what all the information we got. 13 00:00:51,480 --> 00:00:56,240 So today I am here with Jenneth, the Demon Hunter extraordinaire. 14 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:59,880 Hello, Jennif, and how are you? Hello, thanks for having me. 15 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:03,800 I'm doing quite well. It's getting starting to be a 16 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,400 little chillier here in Canada. It's been like raining all day. 17 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:08,560 So it's kind of been a gloomy day. 18 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:12,200 But yeah, happy to be here and looking forward to to talking 19 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,760 about some Demon Hunter stuff. Truth be told, we're pretty 20 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,760 close in it geographically. I'm yeah, I'm just outside of 21 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,720 Toronto, so I've been dealing with the the rain and 22 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:27,360 everything, but we are here to talk about something a little 23 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,640 bit darker, which is the new Demon Hunter specialization. 24 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:32,720 Of course, Demon hunters in general. 25 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,360 For people who don't know you, could you tell us a little bit 26 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,000 about your history with World of Warcraft and content creation? 27 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,080 Yeah, my name is Jeddith. I've been streaming on Twitch 28 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:47,240 and making YouTube content for probably like 7 years now. 29 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,880 I make guides and like educational content mostly 30 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,200 around Demon Hunter, but sometimes I branch out and cover 31 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,760 some other things. Something I've been trying 32 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:00,240 lately is to make videos that are a bit more concise and like 33 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,080 clear language and easy to understand. 34 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,240 Because I do think that, you know, in this day and age, it's 35 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,360 not just the zoomers who are having their attention spans 36 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,120 diminished. I think all of us, even myself, 37 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,320 I mean, believe it or not, I am 35 years old and I can, I can 38 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,240 say that my attention span is dwindling away. 39 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:21,760 So the new thing I've been trying is making a bit more, you 40 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:26,400 know, honed in concise videos. And I think just out of respect 41 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:28,920 for for people to like, I think people want to find the 42 00:02:28,920 --> 00:02:31,000 information they're looking for and then get back to actually 43 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:32,680 playing the game. They don't want to sit there and 44 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,480 watch a 45 minute long video when that video, that 45 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:37,400 information could be portrayed in 10 minutes. 46 00:02:38,640 --> 00:02:40,520 So yeah, that's been what I've been doing lately. 47 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,520 I mythic raid do a lot of mythic plus. 48 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:46,960 I got Hall of Fame a couple times in the past. 49 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,720 Never pushed for title for Mythic Plus but hey, who knows 50 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,960 what the future holds. OK. 51 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,520 And so how long have you been playing World of Warcraft? 52 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:02,000 Oh, wow. I started playing, I don't know 53 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,760 the exact year, but it was around the end of The Burning 54 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,600 Crusade. I played EverQuest for the 55 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,680 majority of my life before that. I started EverQuest when I was 56 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,240 nine years old, and I played that well into my teens. 57 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,240 And that's kind of like where I learned how to, you know, read 58 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,440 and and speak to people. And then all my other friends in 59 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:22,080 high school, they started playing Wow. 60 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:24,760 And I was like the odd one out playing EverQuest. 61 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,400 So they eventually convinced me to, to hop over and I was a 62 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,520 little hesitant at first. I was a little resistant. 63 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:32,520 I was like, wow, this game looks like it's for kids. 64 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,360 It's, it's a completely different style. 65 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,360 But yeah, I, it was just nice to play with friends instead of 66 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,760 playing alone. So that's how I got hooked in. 67 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,080 And yeah, it was around the end of the Burning Crusade. 68 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,920 I think the Black Temple had just come out when I started, so 69 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,120 it's been a while. And so that kind of is like the 70 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:55,040 Ilidan expansion and everything. Is that what led you into Demon 71 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:55,720 Hunters? Like what? 72 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:57,800 What was the attraction for demon hunters for you? 73 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,520 Maybe subconsciously, yeah. I mean, demon hunters, they came 74 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,960 out a lot later. But truthfully, the, the story, 75 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:11,040 how I got into it is, is kind of underwhelming, but also kind of 76 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,880 amusing. I was playing back then, I would 77 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,040 just play random alts. I think I was playing a fury 78 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,040 warrior back then. I also had like a prop paladin. 79 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:19,360 I never, I didn't play very seriously. 80 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,800 I just made alts. I levelled them up and once they 81 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,600 got to Max level, I, maybe I did LFR a couple times and then I 82 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:29,320 made a new character. But at that point I had found a 83 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:30,800 Guild. They were advertising. 84 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,600 They were looking for players in, you know, general chat or 85 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,360 whatever. And I somehow got involved with 86 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,080 them. I was on a different server. 87 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,560 I don't think I had a, a Max level character on there. 88 00:04:42,840 --> 00:04:45,560 And the easiest way for me to to start playing with them was to 89 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,880 just create a Demon Hunter on their server, 'cause they start 90 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,240 at a higher level. I forget what it was back then, 91 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,080 but it started at a higher level. 92 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,360 So I was able to just hop right in with them in a quicker amount 93 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,160 of time than it would be to like, you know, transfer a 94 00:04:58,160 --> 00:04:59,680 character. Cause back then I, you know, I 95 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:01,680 was a teenager, didn't have much money either. 96 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,520 So I just made a Demon Hunter and it stuck since then. 97 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,760 Yeah, very cool. And so now we are reaching like 98 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:13,280 almost the third stage of your career where we've got a new 99 00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:17,760 Demon Hunter spec. And do you want to give us like 100 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,760 a little bit of a rundown of this new Demon Hunter spec, the 101 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:22,360 Devourer? Sure. 102 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,040 I can give you as much information as I know. 103 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,360 They haven't really given us all that much either. 104 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:31,000 So there's a lot of speculation happening and some people are 105 00:05:31,280 --> 00:05:33,800 are kind of like going down one path and assuming what it might 106 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:35,960 be and others are are going down the other. 107 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,960 All that we know so far is that it's a mid range, which could 108 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:42,560 meet a multitude of things we don't know. 109 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:48,160 But it is a 1/3 spec who I guess is using void magic rather than 110 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,680 fell magic. So purple instead of green and 111 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,320 it's going to be ADPS spec. I know some people were hoping 112 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:58,440 for a healer, but I think, you know, or wise, you know, flavor 113 00:05:58,440 --> 00:05:59,680 wise that doesn't quite make sense. 114 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,680 But yeah, it's going to be a mid range DPS. 115 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,840 There's spell casting involved. There's also melee combat 116 00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:10,120 involved. Your i-beam is now void Ray, 117 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,080 which is like a a purple beam instead of a green one. 118 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:15,440 Yeah, it's it's looking really cool. 119 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,240 I'm excited for it because it's something new. 120 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,320 And I think from what I'm understanding from the 121 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,800 information that we've been given, it sounds like it's going 122 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,640 to be a play style that isn't in the game in any other form so 123 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,000 far. You know, we have Evokers that 124 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,120 are, you know, supposed to be mid range, but they don't have 125 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,720 that melee aspect as well. Devastation Evoker is a caster 126 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:41,920 and they play from range. So I think like, it's going to 127 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:47,400 be pretty unique, probably going to be pretty, it's going to 128 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,760 divide the community probably a little bit, but that's always 129 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,160 how it's been for Demon hunters. And, you know, we can talk about 130 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,320 that a little later. But yeah, ultimately it's going 131 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:56,960 to be pretty cool. I'm looking forward to it. 132 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,760 It's purple instead of green. Sounds good to me. 133 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:05,680 Yeah, I did like that analogy where it because it is that mid 134 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:12,240 range the ability to be kind of close to that 25 yards where the 135 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:16,200 Evokers are sitting, devastation augmentation sort of thing. 136 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:22,560 That's that's one thing we have heard from the the developers 137 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,800 that you can build it so that you are mostly staying that mid 138 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:28,480 range. But there's also that ability to 139 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:34,280 sort of jump in and out of melee, which I guess is sort of 140 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:39,040 like they took the momentum build and sort of put it back in 141 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:44,200 sort of this sort of way going to like Havoc as like that sort 142 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,680 of analogy. Has momentum been something that 143 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,160 have a players on a whole have enjoyed? 144 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,800 Is this something where you think that if they slow it down, 145 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,160 will you have like greater periods where you're in one 146 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,000 place or another, it'll be more fun? 147 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,040 Like what's your hopes in that kind of scenario? 148 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:04,040 Yeah. I mean, that's kind of a loaded 149 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,040 question because like I kind of alluded to a second ago, that's 150 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:11,080 been one of the dividing factors in the Demon Hunter community 151 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,440 for the longest time, right? We've had the the mover versus 152 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:17,200 the no mover camps. And you know, everyone wants to 153 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:23,040 play havoc in their own way. I think the problem that the 154 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,480 problem that we have right now is that the talent trees are 155 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,040 designed in a way to cater to both of those people. 156 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:33,600 But unfortunately, the way that we play video games nowadays is 157 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:35,919 we pick the option that does the most damage. 158 00:08:35,919 --> 00:08:38,720 We pick the one that the robot tells us to pick that is doing 159 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,200 the most damage on paper. And if you don't take that 160 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,880 option, you're shamed. So realistically, even all those 161 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,840 options are there. People aren't getting the choice 162 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,320 to play the way that they want, which in turn just ends up 163 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:55,480 hurting the, the one bill that we do end up playing because 164 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,000 then half the the talents in our tree are completely disregarded 165 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:00,720 because they're, you know, for a different play style. 166 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:07,880 So it leads to some confusion, I think, and a lot of just like, 167 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,160 like infighting between the community as to what's better, 168 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,480 what's, you know, how things should be balanced, how things 169 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,160 should be played. So I am a little cautious 170 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,840 hearing about how this could work potentially with Devourer. 171 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,920 If there is a lot of movement involved with the Devourer play 172 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,800 style, you know, that comes with its own risks in terms of just 173 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,120 like how you how do you deal with mechanics, how do those 174 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,960 things work, you know, synergistically. 175 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,200 And if there are two different play styles where one is more 176 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:41,600 ranged and one is, you know, dipping in and out of melee, how 177 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,760 do you balance those? Because one is definitely more 178 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,240 dangerous than the other and there has to be that risk versus 179 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:51,480 reward balancing between that. So I don't know. 180 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:55,200 We're going to have to see. I'm a little cautious, but I'm 181 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,760 holding off until we know more information. 182 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,880 OK. So again, like because there's 183 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:03,960 very little information known right now, a lot of this is 184 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:09,440 going to be just like a speculating in your mind, would 185 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:13,800 you want them to sort of move one of those camps out of the 186 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:18,160 Havoc spec and transplanted into the Devourer spec so that if you 187 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:23,240 are Devourer, then you are more along that momentum camp or vice 188 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,720 versa? I think that would be the best 189 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:27,600 way for them to do it, truthfully. 190 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:32,280 That would open up a lot of doors for Havoc to just become 191 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,640 something concrete, which it hasn't been for a long time. 192 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,520 And you know, if people like that, you know, movement for 193 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,720 damage type of gameplay, they can go one way or the other, 194 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:44,640 whether that's with Devourer or with Havoc. 195 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,360 But just I do think it needs to be split. 196 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:48,600 I think that would be very healthy. 197 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:51,280 Will they do it? I don't know. 198 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:57,120 Because the the strange thing is Havoc, Havoc is keeping both of 199 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,520 the hero talent trees, is keeping Felsgard and it's 200 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:05,840 keeping El Draki Reaver. So those are all very designed 201 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,000 in a way where they've been, they've been put together with 202 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,560 the idea of movement for damage being available. 203 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:13,640 So some of those things might need to be changed. 204 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:19,640 And then we don't know like what the Devourer hero talent tree is 205 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:21,160 going to look like. The Annihilator one. 206 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,000 All we've been told about that is that we're, we're pulling 207 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:28,400 down big comets from the sky. So we we don't know what that 208 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:30,640 looks like either. So it, it, it's going to depend 209 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:32,920 on a lot of things. I personally would like them to 210 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:34,640 split it. Will they? 211 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:39,600 I don't know. Well, sort of looking at havoc 212 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:44,680 through the course of of the War Within, how is its relationship 213 00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:48,120 being with its hero talents? Have they both been viable? 214 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,440 Has one being like the Mythic Plus versus the raid spec? 215 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:57,320 Or has it been where one spec or one hero talent is like 216 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:01,440 predominantly the best one throughout anything you do? 217 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:06,200 Yeah. Do you have like a Demon Hunter 218 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,600 character or an alt? Do you play anything at all? 219 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,960 I do play Demon Hunter, but I've been in the Vengeance camp, I've 220 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:17,720 been tanking it up, and I am also a person who bucks trends, 221 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:21,000 so I've been playing with the Fell Scar despite the fact that 222 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,720 like, it is not the preferred 1. So I'm going to be losing that. 223 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,760 That's just like I'm going to have to reinvent my Demon Hunter 224 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:32,120 come the introduction of Devourer, But because it's been 225 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:36,240 an alt I haven't felt so slavishly to follow what the 226 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,480 meta is. Right, OK, yeah. 227 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,880 So I mean, I can speak more on Havoc because that's what I 228 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:44,760 focus on. I I don't really play Vengeance 229 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:46,640 all that much, though I I probably should because there's 230 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,000 a whole nother audience that I could be tapping into. 231 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,280 But yeah, I could speak on, you know, Havoc and and it's 232 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:57,440 experience so far. The two hero talents, I think 233 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,480 have ultimately been a they've been a miss, I think. 234 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:05,480 So again, it's it's the, the split, the the division of, you 235 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,440 know, we have one hero talent tree that is incredibly simple 236 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,760 and that's the Felscard 1. And that wasn't satisfactory for 237 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,520 a certain type of person that plays havoc Demon Hunter. 238 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,120 It was strange because it was focused on doing like big 239 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,800 uncapped AOE damage with demon surges at the start of the 240 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:23,960 expansion, but then it got target capped. 241 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,040 So the intention of that mechanic became a little 242 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,480 unclear. It also didn't have any like 243 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,680 unique visuals that the, you know, we were seeing all these 244 00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:36,600 other hero talent trees like mages getting these Phoenix 245 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:38,760 Phoenix's that they were summoning or, you know, all this 246 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:40,920 other stuff. And Felsgard didn't have 247 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,120 anything. So we eventually got something 248 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,240 like I think it was halfway through the 1st season of the 249 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,240 War Within and it's like a little puff of green smoke. 250 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,080 It's, I guess it's something, but it just felt really 251 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,960 underwhelming. So that's the, that's the one 252 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:56,720 hero talent tree. And then we have the other one, 253 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,800 Eldraki Reaver. And yes, that is how you 254 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:01,840 pronounce it. By the way, there is a voice 255 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:04,240 line in the game that says it that way. 256 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,520 I know everyone else says El Dracci Reaver and you know, keep 257 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,640 saying it that way if you want, but the in game voice says it 258 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:15,640 this way anyways. That one is like miles ahead in 259 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,840 terms of complexity. So obviously people don't like 260 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,320 that either because it's the whole mover versus non mover 261 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,160 thing. People like simple and they also 262 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:27,800 like complex. So yeah, like I I said, it just 263 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:32,920 it's like a, a direct reflection of of havoc. 264 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,280 All these things pop up, whether it's mover versus non mover, our 265 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,120 two hero talent trees being completely different. 266 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:41,680 It's all kind of the same thing where they're 2 completely 267 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,840 separate things trying to cater to two different types of 268 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:45,720 players. And neither of them are getting 269 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:47,200 it right. They're not getting the 270 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,760 attention that they need to actually excel and and succeed 271 00:14:50,760 --> 00:15:00,280 in that, in that intention. So it's hard because I feel like 272 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:03,920 they've tried to make some changes to it recently. 273 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,280 I can't even say recently. Maybe like over the past two 274 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,640 seasons, there's been some changes here and there. 275 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:15,080 But in the most recent season, I'll Draki Weaver was given a 276 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:20,880 tier set that's pretty broken and that is pushing us towards a 277 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,880 unique sort of a damage profile, which is funnel damage. 278 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,400 There's not many specs in the game that that have that. 279 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,480 There's like a maybe two or three, maybe 4. 280 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,840 But we're really, really good at that right now because of our 281 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,560 tier set. So it's put us into an OK place 282 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:39,400 in terms of mythic plus and keys. 283 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,240 But in raid, we're still pretty, pretty lacking. 284 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:51,000 And yeah, like before that our our class tree went over an 285 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,160 entire year without having any changes to it. 286 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,480 There were a few changes to the spec tree here and there, but 287 00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,280 there were very few and far between. 288 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,160 But now, I mean, looking back on it, it was probably because most 289 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,120 of the devs attention was going into designing Devourer. 290 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:11,040 I would imagine so yeah. I mean the hero talents in the 291 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,000 War Within I think have been ultimately a miss. 292 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:18,880 I'm hoping they've had enough time now going into a new 293 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:20,880 expansion where they can redesign some of these things. 294 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,800 I think they are going to have to redesign some of them just 295 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,800 to, you know, work with with Devour or whichever one it's 296 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:29,120 getting. I can't remember if they 297 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,400 flip-flopped a couple times, whether it's they're getting 298 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:33,560 fell scarred or Ari don't even know anymore. 299 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:36,680 They're getting scarred, no longer fell. 300 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,560 Scarred. Because yeah, yeah. 301 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,760 So the question there is, right that the hero talent tree 302 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,880 functions around demon surges, which is an explosion around 303 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:47,800 your character. How's that going to work when 304 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,600 you're playing out ranged? They're going to have to change 305 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,560 something there. Or maybe they only proc when you 306 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:55,440 go in and you do your melee thing. 307 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,440 I don't know. We're going to have to see. 308 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,720 I almost want to say that it'll be probably be like the cloak 309 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,280 where it just just shoots at whatever your current target is 310 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:04,880 and blows around and blows around that. 311 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:11,119 But again, we're we're in speculation territory, honestly 312 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:15,440 speaking to you today, like a lot of what's been coming up is 313 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:20,920 that schism within within havoc demon hunters like that, that 314 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,440 tube camp sort of thing. And maybe this is much like when 315 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,960 we had guardian and Pharaoh split up so that they could be 316 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,240 healthier trees. We could see that. 317 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,200 And like maybe that is the hope that with that the community is 318 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,240 looking for. But another part that you talked 319 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:42,720 about is how it's almost as if because this was on the horizon, 320 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,880 the team wasn't really looking at like what was happening on 321 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:47,920 live. Can you tell us a little bit 322 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:53,480 about like how Demon Hunter has been performing or both in like 323 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,680 numbers but also mostly enjoyment throughout the War 324 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:02,080 Within? Yeah, it's, I think that's a 325 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,520 personal thing. You know, some people really 326 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:06,920 enjoy playing havoc still. Some people have been having the 327 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,720 worst time ever. I think the hero talent trees 328 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,280 definitely contribute to that in both directions. 329 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:17,440 If, if you're talking to somebody who has been playing 330 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:21,280 Demon Hunter for a while at on a casual level and now in the War 331 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,800 Within, they're forced to play Aldraki Reaver, which is a bit 332 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,080 more complex than probably what they're used to. 333 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:31,480 I would imagine their enjoyment of, of that class is of that 334 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,080 spec is going to go down quite a bit. 335 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,080 They might get frustrated because the cognitive load of 336 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,840 that, of that hero talent tree is definitely a lot higher than 337 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,960 Felsgard. And yeah, if, if, if you're that 338 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,160 type of player and you are, you know, resorting to playing 339 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,280 Felsgard purely out of personal preference and that's how you 340 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,720 enjoy playing. And you're like I said, you're 341 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,840 shamed for playing that you're, you're looked upon, people look 342 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:58,920 you up in your logs and you're like, oh, why did, why did he 343 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,560 play Felsgard on this fight? And clearly should have played 344 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,560 the other one. It's an uncomfortable situation. 345 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:09,760 So I, I think even on a grander scale, kind of like what I 346 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,600 mentioned, Havoc started off being very simple. 347 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,480 If you think back to like BFAI, think that's where a lot of 348 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,560 people hopped onto it, but it was a, it was so simple back 349 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,720 then and it's been progressively getting harder and harder and 350 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:24,040 harder throughout the expansions. 351 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,480 And I feel like now I feel like we're at a boiling point with it 352 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:35,600 where either they're going to fix the issue with Devour or 353 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,240 people are just going to be fed up and they're going to, they're 354 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:40,880 going to abandon ship and they're going to create a rat 355 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,920 paladin or something. You know, I think that's where 356 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,480 we're at now. I mean not until met paladins 357 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,520 get double digit buffs, but we'll see. 358 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,840 They got their 5%. They're OK, OK, they're good. 359 00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:55,480 They're. Good. 360 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,000 Well you just mentioned about complexity in that complexity 361 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,720 cap, a lot of people deal with that through the use of add-ons, 362 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,480 through the use of WE cores. Has that been the situation with 363 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,240 Demon Hunters having to have WE cores to track a number of 364 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,080 different things? How? 365 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:17,800 Are they supposed to function if Blizzard's now looking to disarm 366 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,800 our add-ons? Yeah, I mean, that's a, that's a 367 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,080 valid concern. I I think not even just for 368 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,720 Havoc, but for for every class. Like there's some things that 369 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:32,640 are unrealistic to be able to, to track to player class at a, 370 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,360 at an optimal level for Havoc in particular. 371 00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:38,560 I mean, if, if you're playing, if you're playing AR, you're 372 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:40,080 track. If you're playing AR in raid, 373 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:44,040 you're tracking your essence Brake, which is a four second 374 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,640 debuff window that you're putting on enemies. 4 seconds. 375 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:48,560 That's not very short, or that's not very long, that's very 376 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,720 short. Then you have your inertia. 377 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,080 If you're deciding, deciding to play that, that's a damage amp 378 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:56,640 that you put on yourself, that's 5 seconds. 379 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:02,680 Then if you're playing a fire inside, you have up to five 380 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,720 immolation or a buffs all running at the same time, 381 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,720 expiring at different times, which is important because when 382 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,240 they expire, your rage fire explodes, which is like big AOE 383 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:13,880 damage. So you want to make sure you're 384 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:15,720 hitting enough the right mobs with that. 385 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,240 You're also tracking how many soul fragments you've picked up 386 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,560 on the ground and when they're going to expire. 387 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,600 That's a kind of a new mechanic that was brought into play for 388 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,880 damage with Eldraki reverse. So you have to pick up six soul 389 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,160 fragments and that gives you your reverse glave, which is 390 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:36,400 like your your your key ability that you get with that hero 391 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:40,160 talent tree. So you're tracking that. 392 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,680 You're also tracking your initiative buff on yourself, 393 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,240 which is 5 seconds. So we have all these like little 394 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:51,880 short buffs and debuffs that unfortunately we have to line 395 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:54,640 them all up together. They all have to happen at the 396 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:56,560 same time. That's how you do your damage. 397 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,400 That's your big damage window. So like independently, those 398 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,360 things might be fine. Like tracking your essence brake 399 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,840 window for four seconds, sure, that's fine. 400 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:09,280 But then you're also doing all the other actions to to line all 401 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:13,040 these other things up and you're cutting into certain buffs and 402 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:14,760 debuffs like you're losing a second here because you're 403 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,960 trying to set something else up. I don't know if you've ever 404 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:20,440 tried to play, I'm sure you have. 405 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,200 You've tried to play on the PTR without add-ons and you're just 406 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,160 like looking at your buff, buff bar up at the top right. 407 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,320 And things are popping in and out of that so quickly and 408 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,280 things are getting reordered and rearranged. 409 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,320 There's no way you could track all of those things I just 410 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:35,680 mentioned while that's happening. 411 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:40,760 Absolutely no way. So I'm, I'm hopeful that, you 412 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:45,080 know, if Blizzard can properly implement like an allow and 413 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,400 block list for buffs and debuffs, that would make things 414 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,400 infinitely better. And if you're able to select 415 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,120 those things to go on to the, the name plates, the new name 416 00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:57,800 plates that they're setting up, if they can do just a few of 417 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,560 those things, I think they'll, they'll have a lot of success 418 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,400 with this initiative of, you know, trying to replace add-ons 419 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,880 and and whatnot. But they're, they're very 420 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,360 crucial things. If they get those wrong, people 421 00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:13,640 are going to be upset. So then looking towards this new 422 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:18,680 spec with the the Devourer Demon Hunter, I'm guessing that a good 423 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,840 portion of the community is looking to have something that 424 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,160 doesn't have such short window buffs that you're trying to 425 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,800 align. We can hope so I, I mean, I, I 426 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:30,320 do think I, I will say I'm, I'm hoping actually, I think they 427 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,000 did say this somewhere. They haven't fully announced it, 428 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:36,920 but I think that their mentality and how classes and specs 429 00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:40,040 function and the, the overall complexity is going to change. 430 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,680 I think their approach to how these things work and how they 431 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,360 design classes is going to be changing with that in mind, with 432 00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:49,720 the the idea that, you know, they have to simplify things in 433 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,160 a way that it makes a playable without external help. 434 00:23:54,360 --> 00:24:01,280 And like making things simple doesn't necessarily mean like a 435 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:05,000 bad thing. I think if people hear that, 436 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,320 that term or you know, hear me say, or anyone else say they're 437 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:12,920 making things easier, I think all they plan on doing is just 438 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:17,600 pulling it back beyond the threshold of, of where proper 439 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,400 play is only possible with external help. 440 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,480 I think we're far beyond that right now and that's why we need 441 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:24,880 all these weak cores and add-ons. 442 00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:27,360 But if they can just pull that back a little bit where there's 443 00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:30,000 still the challenge in playing your class in spec, but it's not 444 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:34,320 completely impossible. I think that's what their intent 445 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:39,360 is going into the expansion. And I'm very curious to see just 446 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,320 the types of changes they make to to accommodate that. 447 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:48,560 It is a refrain that I've heard fairly often and people looking 448 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,320 for them to sort of, I think the term that I like is 449 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,520 concentrating the fun so that you have a few things that are 450 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,360 very important and you get to enjoy. 451 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,160 Yeah, absolutely. That's a good way to put it, 452 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:04,000 actually. The other spec, well, not 453 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,320 speculation, but the other little bit of information that 454 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,640 we've received about Devourer's rotation is this entire thing 455 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:15,400 with their void metamorphosis, that it is something that like 456 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,200 you build up the energy and then you get it. 457 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:22,480 It's not on a a set time that you have it for, but you're 458 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,080 trying to stay in this form as long as possible to keep using 459 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:27,680 the finisher that becomes available. 460 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,480 A lot of people have likened this to rendered to madness that 461 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:37,200 shadow priests had where you are just trying to hold off the the 462 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,880 inevitable. What are the thoughts, concerns 463 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,720 or like pros that people are thinking about this just from 464 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,280 like what information we have so far? 465 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:53,720 I've heard a lot of things I've heard some concern about. 466 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,440 Well, that mechanic in particular, Surrender to madness 467 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,680 is like the, the big comparison that people make. 468 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,920 I think that certain mechanic can work in a multitude of ways 469 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,720 and comparing it one to one with surrender to madness, if it's, 470 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,280 if you're getting a negative vibe from that, that thought, I 471 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:15,160 don't think that's fair yet because it could be much easier 472 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,800 to extend your your void meta form. 473 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,160 We don't know we, we don't know anything truthfully. 474 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,120 So, but I, I like the idea of it. 475 00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:26,920 I think it's something new. Like, I don't know about you, 476 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:32,000 but I, I've found that Wow combat has become pretty 477 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,640 homogeneous over the years. It's all builder spender, you 478 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,160 know, you're all, whether it's energy or, you know, soul 479 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,080 fragments or combo points or whatever you're building up and 480 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:46,720 then you spend them. I, I think this does that also 481 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:48,920 in a sense, but it's a different spin on it. 482 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,120 And I'm just, I'm open to, to new things. 483 00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:57,120 I'm open to things that may or may not vibe with me, but it's 484 00:26:57,120 --> 00:26:58,640 not all about me. You know, there's going to be 485 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,000 people who love it. There's going to be people who 486 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:02,240 hate it. If you hate it, it's not for 487 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:03,360 you. And you can still play havoc. 488 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,280 If you love it, awesome. Subscribe to my channel. 489 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:12,040 But it's, I think we have to hold off judgement until, until 490 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,600 we actually know how it's going to function. 491 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:19,720 I think it could be cool though. Yeah, I mean, I was a big fan of 492 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,760 the surrender to Madness. I mean, not like them dying at 493 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,480 the end. They like I felt that that was a 494 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:29,200 little a little much. But I my biggest concern about 495 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,680 this and again, it's something that I am holding off until like 496 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:37,840 I actually play play. It is not what it feels like in 497 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,040 the void form metamorphosis, but what it feels like outside of 498 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,240 the void form metamorphosis. Because if that if so much is 499 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:49,760 concentrated in it, then you feel almost worthless when 500 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,760 you're not in your metamorphosis. 501 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:56,160 And something I'm going to link in the show notes and something 502 00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,040 I do recommend anybody to do is look at your latest video on 503 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,840 this where you specifically say like, hey, if you are strong 504 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,400 inside of your cooldowns, what do you look like outside of your 505 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,040 cooldowns in your mind? What do you think are ways that 506 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:11,800 could this could at least be remedied? 507 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,080 I think the the easiest way is just to spend less time outside 508 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,920 of it. You know that you make a 509 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,400 fairpoint that and that's kind of what Havoc suffers with. 510 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,480 Now if you're playing Felsgard in particular, like your time 511 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,680 outside of your demon form, you're hitting like a wet noodle 512 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,360 until you can get back in demon form. 513 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,720 But if they just reduce the time it takes to get into your 514 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,840 powerful form and that solves the issue, you know, we don't 515 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,320 know how long it's going to take to get back into void meta. 516 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,040 We don't know how long we're going to be able to stay in void 517 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,520 meta. You know, how many souls does it 518 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,160 take to get into it? Could be 3, it could be 10. 519 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,440 We don't know. 10 would suck. 10 might cause some problems. 520 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,760 If it's three, it might not be so bad. 521 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:02,760 So I think by the sounds of it, by the sounds of what we've been 522 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,520 told, we're going to be spending a lot of time in that void meta 523 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:09,040 form. So I think they've learned their 524 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:15,400 lesson from havoc and I'm hoping, I'm hoping just like you 525 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,080 are, I'm sure that it's not going to be a blunder and and 526 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:23,040 they they do the right thing. It it's if you have a the Demon 527 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,640 Hunter alter, humane Demon Hunter, you can see an attempt 528 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,920 at remedying this problem in the Felsgard hero talent tree. 529 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,440 I think it's on the right hand side where it's, I think 530 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,360 increasing your chaos strike damage outside of meta or you're 531 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,720 just your, I don't know what it is, but it's increasing your 532 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,640 damage outside of meta. And that is to to sort of like 533 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,120 fix that problem that you're talking about. 534 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,600 But then on the off side, on the off split, we also have in the 535 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:53,560 spec tree talents that keep us in meta more often. 536 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:58,280 So the more time we spend in meta, the more time that talent 537 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,320 in our hero talent tree is completely useless. 538 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,720 So this is what I mean by they're trying to like they're 539 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:09,040 trying to cater to two different play styles and they're just 540 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,320 constantly throwing Band-Aid fixes at us. 541 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:16,360 Like in our spec tree, we have talents that reduce our threat 542 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,520 or that, you know, it's giving us reduced, I think it's reduced 543 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,840 physical damage or something or 4% extra verse. 544 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,120 And those are those are put in there because we were so 545 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,160 squishy. We were having issues just 546 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:35,240 staying alive as Adps and those remedy fixes, those Band-Aid 547 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,000 fixes are taking up entire talent nodes in our spec tree. 548 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,160 Like that type of thing. You shouldn't be in our spec 549 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,680 tree that if anything put it in the class tree, but I know that 550 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,840 would cause problems because then vengeance gets it as as 551 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,120 well. But like these Band-Aid fixes 552 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,200 shouldn't be in our spectry. Those should be damage in our 553 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:57,040 spectry, not reduce threat. OK. 554 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,160 So then just to sort of round out the conversation in 555 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,320 midnight, we're getting a bunch of new talent points. 556 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,720 We're getting three that go into the class tree. 557 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:12,200 We're getting another three that will be in the hero talent and 558 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:17,680 of course 4 in our spectry, which if they want us to put 559 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:24,280 that in the apex talent, right. In terms of the spectry for 560 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:30,320 Havoc, what would you say would be a good focus for the Apex 561 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,400 talent? Good question. 562 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:43,400 So if it's in, if it's in the spectry, it has to be neutral to 563 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,640 it has to be neutral from a hero talent tree. 564 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:52,280 So I would imagine it has to be i-beam. 565 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:59,040 I-beam or Immolation aura, because if they go glaive that's 566 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:08,000 going to be catering to Ari think yeah, I think like flavor 567 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:14,720 wise it would have to be I-beam. OK, i-beam is really powerful 568 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:19,160 already. So yeah, I don't know. 569 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,240 That's a tough one. I'm very curious to see. 570 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,640 All right, what about the hero trees? 571 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:31,360 Yeah, So the hero trees, I hope for Havoc's sake, I hope they 572 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:35,800 don't change AR because that's what's giving us our our, our 573 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,400 niche sort of spot in, in damage. 574 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:43,880 Is that the funnel damage? So I think that is going to be 575 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:48,280 what is able to differentiate Havoc from Devour is having that 576 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,920 that niche damage profile, because there's a lot of 577 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,560 situations where that is very, very valuable in mythic plus, 578 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:58,480 it's super valuable in raid. If there is, you know, a a big 579 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,720 boss and then a bunch of little ads that come out. 580 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,120 If you're able to funnel damage off those little ads into the 581 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,160 the main boss and do a lot of single target damage, super 582 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,640 valuable. So that is something that could 583 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:14,080 set apart Havoc from Devourer. So I I hope they don't change 584 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,560 that in terms of Felsgard or scarred. 585 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:22,360 Now they I don't think it's I don't know. 586 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,520 God, it's so tough because like I said, there are those like 587 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,960 weird things in the talent tree where it's doing more damage 588 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,880 outside of outside of your meta, which I don't think should be 589 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,160 there. The the demon surge mechanic 590 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:36,800 might need to change like we said. 591 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,600 You think it needs a rework entirely because based on what 592 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,360 you're saying it, it might need more attention than just another 593 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,960 row of talents. I think so, yeah. 594 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,360 That's the other thing too. Like, that's a good point. 595 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,880 We're getting an entire it's like a new column, right, Of 596 00:33:55,200 --> 00:34:00,160 four talents in the hero trees. I believe it's 3 for the hero. 597 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,800 Trees. OK, yeah, I mean, that's just 598 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:08,920 like packing more power into and into all of these things. 599 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:10,880 And that could be problematic too, right? 600 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,000 Like we've or even maybe defensively, it could be 601 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:15,520 defensive stuff. Like there's some defensive 602 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,960 things in the AR tree that we really rely on defensively like 603 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:24,280 we have in the AR tree. There's it's a choice node where 604 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:28,639 you're either getting a shield for a certain amount of healing 605 00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:32,560 that you get from your soul fragrance that you pick up, or 606 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,400 there's another one that gives you a 10% shield every time you 607 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,800 press Fell Blade. Those are pretty impactful. 608 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,120 Those are, are big defensive nodes in your tree. 609 00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:46,639 And again, I feel like those are, I don't want to call those 610 00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:49,520 ones Band-Aid fixes because they're not quite that, but 611 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,920 they're these things that if we didn't have, I think we'd be in 612 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,560 very, very rough shape, you know, in, in a lot of different 613 00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,120 ways. So yeah, I do think maybe I'm 614 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,040 just hopeful. Maybe I'm, I'm like wanting new 615 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:04,760 stuff. So I'm saying, hey, yeah, this 616 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,440 needs a rework. Maybe it doesn't, maybe I'm 617 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,880 exaggerating, but I would love to see, I would love to see 618 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,400 reworks on, on a lot of things. Yeah, it's the opportunities 619 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,960 there. Like they've said they don't 620 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,640 want to do those big types, those big swooping changes, 621 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,160 patch to patch or in the middle of a patch, those types of 622 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,320 things are reserved for new expansions. 623 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,600 So now's the time to do it. OK. 624 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,040 And then the class tree is a different story. 625 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,760 You're getting three more talent points, but they're not they're 626 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,280 not adding anything to there is for. 627 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:46,480 So for that one, are the three points are going to allow DPS 628 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,440 demon hunters to like spec into stuff that were pain points 629 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,600 before or is it really superfluous for for you in your 630 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,840 class tree? I think there's a couple things 631 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:03,880 that would allow us. It would allow us to get the 632 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,120 choice note on darkness. You can either like make it last 633 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,600 a little bit longer or you reduce the cooldown on it. 634 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:16,440 It could allow it could allow us to take demon muzzle easier, 635 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,800 which is another defensive you take like 8% less magic damage 636 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:21,920 from whatever target was hit by your sigil. 637 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,680 It's something people end up taking in like high mythic plus 638 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:31,000 to to survive things. It could also mean that we take 639 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:35,120 all three capstones. So collective anguish, the hunt 640 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:39,760 and sigil of spite. I don't know if that would be 641 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:46,160 great for Felsgard to take sigil of spite because it's the the 642 00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:49,880 for AR Sigilus spike gives us a lot of souls and we need like 643 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:51,480 soul fragments to use our reverse glaive. 644 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,200 So that's why it's really useful for that one. 645 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:59,440 But for Felsgard it's just some AOE damage I I guess and it 646 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:04,840 doesn't interact with Felsgard. So with Felsgard, Sigil of flame 647 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,680 converts to a new ability, sigil of doom I believe it's called 648 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,800 and that gives us a demon surge. So you if that's procking a 649 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,160 demon surge, you'd probably always prioritize that over 650 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:21,160 sigilos spite to press it. It's it's yeah, I'm not sure the 651 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:22,800 spec tree or sorry, the class tree. 652 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,800 There's there's some weird things where I have to pull it 653 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,840 up to see, but we're going into like APVP talent to get down to 654 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:35,080 one thing and everybody asks me like, hey, why are we putting 655 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,480 points into this? It's like a spectral site talent 656 00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:41,800 and yeah, and nobody uses it. It's a PvP thing. 657 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,880 But the reason we put one point into that opposed to the other 658 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:50,360 option, which is a 2 point node into immolation or giving you 659 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,840 armor or something is because it's a one point investment 660 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,280 compared to a 2. So you put one point into the 661 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,360 Spectra site talent, it's completely useless. 662 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,080 You're wasting a point, but you can get down to the the point 663 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,040 below it that much easier and you have one point to spend 664 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:08,000 elsewhere. So yeah, it's, there's some 665 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,440 things that I think they need to reorganize in the class tree as 666 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,040 well. It's it's, there's a lot of 667 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:14,480 things, man. There's a lot of things. 668 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:21,120 Yeah, yeah, no, I, I definitely encourage people to go in, watch 669 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:25,280 your streams and ask you questions about like all the 670 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,880 nitty gritty of that. But I do have one last brain 671 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:30,160 teaser for you. OK. 672 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:36,760 As we head into midnight, we have the defensive claw back 673 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,600 that they said they wanted to do back at the start of the war 674 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,240 Within. You've been speaking a lot about 675 00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:47,360 like how squishy DPS Stephen hunters can be. 676 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:51,360 Do you expect that you'll be hard hit by it, presumable like 677 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:56,360 de escalation of defensives? Or do you think that like demon 678 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,840 hunters are are meant to be, especially with devour, are 679 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,480 meant to just stay out of the trouble in general? 680 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,920 I think that may be the case for Devour for sure, because it 681 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,040 sounds like you're right. They're either playing out 682 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,200 ranged or they're dipping in quick and getting back out so 683 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,480 you can plan your movement accordingly and stay out of 684 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,440 mechanics and maybe not take certain hits. 685 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,200 As a pure melee. Sometimes getting hit is 686 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,120 inevitable. There's certain things that you 687 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,560 know, you just, you take it to the chin, you expect that you're 688 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:26,440 going to take it and you find ways around it. 689 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:32,840 I think if they're going to roll back some of those defenses, I 690 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:37,480 would imagine they're going to tune everything else around that 691 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,240 principle. We're not going to be taking as 692 00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:42,960 much damage if we have less defensives, I would hope. 693 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,360 Otherwise we're just we're in a world of trouble. 694 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:53,480 But I think as long as we keep Blur, if Havoc keeps Blur and 695 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,160 maybe Blur gets a little bit of a buff, it's kind of weak right 696 00:39:56,160 --> 00:40:00,040 now. We also have a lot of Leech. 697 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,240 We can't really forget that Havoc Demon hunters have a lot 698 00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:06,640 of Leech and we have healing from our soul fragments. 699 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,800 So that takes you only so far, right? 700 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,200 Like healing and Leech isn't going to save you from one 701 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,280 shots. But I think we are starting to 702 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:20,720 move away from one shots being as much of a thing as they were 703 00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:26,240 maybe back in Dragonfly. So I, I think, I think we'll be 704 00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:33,080 OK, but it does very depend on the tuning of everything else. 705 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,600 If they're going to have, you know, bosses doing constant rot 706 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,440 damage or having, you know, one shot mechanics everywhere, I 707 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:41,440 think then we'll be in some trouble. 708 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,560 But like I said, if, if they're doing this, this whole 709 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,600 initiative of like, you know, removing add-ons, removing weak 710 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:53,240 auras, I think the whole game is going to have to change around 711 00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:55,760 that idea. And I, I think they know that 712 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,320 they're, they're smart people over there. 713 00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,960 As much as, you know, we love to, to rag on the devs and, and 714 00:40:59,960 --> 00:41:02,320 whatever they're, they, they know what they're doing. 715 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,080 So I, I, I have my, I have my worries. 716 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:10,960 But I, I'm hopeful, yeah. OK, so if people want to like, 717 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,600 keep a praise of everything happening with demon hunters, 718 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:17,600 where can we find you? I'm on YouTube, primarily 719 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:22,480 youtube.com/jeddeth TV. I'm on 720 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:28,520 twitchtwitch.twitch.tv/jeddeth. its.tv, right? 721 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:33,840 Yeah, yeah, I'm on Twitter. I'm sorry, XX, the everything 722 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,920 app. I'm kind of all over the place. 723 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,600 If you play, if you're thinking of getting into Demon Hunter 724 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,000 because you want to play Devour and you want to like hop into 725 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,000 Demon Hunter early and get a feel for things. 726 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,920 I have a lot of resources online, a lot of video guides. 727 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:53,520 I have a havoc week or a pack up on Y go dot IO. 728 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,200 You can go grab that until they take week hours away. 729 00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,800 Then you're out of luck. Yeah, I'm kind of everywhere. 730 00:41:59,920 --> 00:42:02,000 Just search Jeddath. You'll find it all. 731 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,400 That's awesome. So I will encourage people to do 732 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,240 that and of course, put those in the show notes as well, but 733 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,440 that's going to be it for us today. 734 00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:13,560 Until next time guys, may all your hits be good.