It's been really nice to not have to care about that and to
just find the fun again in a game that I have enjoyed for
many, many, many, many years at this point.
Victory for the Forsaken. For Lauderon.
For the Kieran Tour. For Pandaria.
For calendar to. The burning region for Gilnaeus,
but has not done for the Lich King for the Sindori.
For the alliance. For the Horde, for Azeroth.
Hello and welcome back to another episode of For Azz.
I'm Benny, a gay, the treatment manly, and today I'm joined not
by Lex, not by Jean, but by the one and only Jocelyn.
Hello Jos, how are you and how's the World of Warcraft been
treating you? I'm well, thanks.
Hi, Manny. I'm so glad to be back.
It's been a it's been a long time.
I don't even remember. It's been like I feel years not
since I talked to you obviously, but since I've talked to FAZ.
Hi, guys. It has.
Been a bit but I do like that we do these check insurance and
everything seeing how the expansion is because honestly on
the main show we've been talking about how I am not interested in
12 point O .5. None of the stuff really works
for me. We've had people on like one end
who are focused on their rating and their mythic plus and all of
that. We've got people who are loving
the new decor duel and you have a very unique perspective as
somebody who is not engaged in the game in the same way that
you used to be. And so it's a great time to
check in where I have said that Oh my God, 12 point O 7.
If they're going to have some Mcguffin and guys, spoilers for
next episode. They have a Mcguffin and so I my
my way I'm viewing of the game is like influx.
I will say at least if you're in the fast discord, there may have
been talks of me to say is saying farewell to the show.
No way. I don't believe it.
Come on. Oh man, it, it, it's been, it's
been a time. So it's good to check in, of
course, get different views on things because World of Warcraft
is now this big tent game that appeals to all sorts of people.
And so let's get into it. How are you interacting with
like what, a Warcraft Midnight or in Warcraft in general?
You know, it's, it's really funny to to hear you talking
about, you know, like the the issues in the patch and things
not being for you and, and everything else, because like,
so I'm not rating anymore. That was like my big midnight
change was that even in War Within for the first, the first
big patch, I was still rating. And when I kind of like left the
raid, I can't even remember if I actually stuck it out for AOTC.
But basically like I just got to the point where I was like, I
can't commit these, you know, two nights a week plus the time
it takes to gear and everything else.
I was like, I just think, you know, Wow's not for me anymore.
And you know, kind of walked away and walked away for the
whole rest of War Within. Wasn't even going to play
Midnight. And then it was just like, but
the blood elves and I was like, OK, OK, OK, I'm back in.
And one of the big things that I have noticed is that because I'm
not rating, I don't need to care about the patches.
I don't need to care about the timeline.
So I know like the we were going to do this talk, I think a week
or week and a half ago and I was like, you know what, I think,
you know, our conversations going to be a little bit
Evergreen. I know there's a patch that's
coming out on Tuesday this week, so you guys probably won't talk
about that. So, you know, like it's just so
funny because it's like everyone's talking about how how
broken the patch was and I was like, OK, cool, I'll check it
out next week. And then I did, I checked it out
next week and I was like, everything's working fine for
me. It's like when you don't care
about day and date patches, the game is so much more enjoyable
because I'm I'm having a great time.
So I logged in today, I think, yeah, about about 10-10 days
after the patch and for the first time, and I mean, like, I
just I went in, I checked my vaults and I still get vault
things because doing delves, which is my big main piece of
content that I enjoy doing my delves gets me those those great
vault slots. So I'm like, cool, I got, I got
shinies waiting for me when I log in.
I got a whole bunch of weekly. So I can go pick up.
I'm going to go, I'm going to go sit with my magister dudes and
serve them some wine and things and get some points for that
stuff. And then, you know, zoom around
the zone and find all the void things and kaboom, kill those.
Yay, get more shiny things. This is so cool.
And when you don't care about the numbers that are attached to
the shiny things, I'm just like, I'm I'm walking around and I'm
doing activities and achievements are popping and I'm
like, Oh yeah, give me that dopamine.
Let's go. So it's an entirely different
game when you don't care about high end, like end game content,
like whether that's Mythic plus or whether that's Raid.
It's an entirely different experience.
Since midnight launched. I basically like I went through
the the campaign. I got my my main, my hunter to
level 90. I went through and kind of did
some of the stuff in the void zone and I'm like, you know
what, I don't really like it here.
I'm going back to Ever song because that was giving me all
of the fields, especially around like all the Silvana stuff and
like the Win runner Spire dungeon and just being in ever
song. I was like, I'm going to work on
Loremaster and I went and did every single side question ever
song. Like there are no more
exclamation marks than ever song.
And I've had so much fun just hanging out in the zone I love
because I don't have to go anywhere else.
Yeah, you're not constrained by a schedule and it seems that's a
lot of freeing for you. Yeah, exactly.
And the other thing is too, I'm not like I'm leveled, whatever
it is, something 55, like 450-5555.
I don't even see. I don't even know what my item
level is supposed to be. All I know is like I'm at 55.
So I'm like my number is purple. I feel like that's a good thing.
So I'm like I'm not like cutting edge eye level content, but I'm
like, I still feel like I I'm progressing my character and I'm
still getting pieces that matter, you know, probably two
or three times a week I'm getting a piece of gear that's
replacing something I already have and that just feels good.
It feels like I'm progressing without having this like, I
don't know, axe over my head being like you shall progress.
So it's it's been a lot more enjoyable than even War Within.
OK, now you haven't been part of a static rating team, you said.
Have you dipped your toes into story mode or LFR?
Not at all, which again is a very like freeing feeling.
I know that that content is there and I can go see it
whenever I want to go see it. I think that what I'm probably
going to do is do all my loremaster stuff, so go over
into like the troll area and then go to the void area.
And I, I don't know how everyone else feels about this.
I don't love the root area, the, the like new race area thing,
like with all the, the tree roots and stuff.
And like to the point that when I was, even when I was questing,
I was like, I'm barely listening to what you're saying.
Like I really don't care. I was like, there's something
about the big tree, like world tree roots or something and
somebody's rotten and someone's light infested and everything's
bad. And I'm like, OK, roots, roots,
roots. When do I get out of here?
Roots, roots, roots. Yeah, Tarindar has been a hot
box, a hot button topic for a number of things.
Maybe I'll, I'll spoil this for you.
So 1 is that the zone has been like identified as lifted out of
the war within and transplanted into midnight.
It's not created new for for midnight.
So is that like they meant it to be in War Within and it didn't
make the cut? So the story is that War Within
was part way through development when they decided to shift into
this trilogy The world Soul saw. OK.
Yeah. And so while they were
rearranging stuff, this was her and our or the Root Lands, as it
was originally called, was going to be in the the War Within
expansion and then got transplanted.
OK, because that is that is my like, one thing that I think is
very my like my one big criticism of the midnight
expansion so far is it feels very disjointed, right?
You have this weird root land place.
You've got this void planet thing, twisting nether,
whatever. And then you've got like your
two zones that are actually grounded in Azeroth and right
next to each other. And I found that like I really
enjoyed those two stories again, like it went back to a lot of
the Alvin troll history and you know, dealt with some stuff that
was like raids back in like burning, Burning Crusade,
probably when Blood Elves came in.
Again, like that wasn't when I was playing the game originally.
So I wasn't as clear. It's like that.
That was one of the things where I was like I knew the lore
there, but I didn't play the lore, which I think makes it hit
a little different. But I recognized all the
characters. I recognized the names.
Some of it I recognized from Hearthstone and playing those
cards right. So I feel like connected with
those two zones a whole lot more.
And the void kind of made sense, like the void zone part because
I was like, OK, you know, Zaltath is attacking us from
there. Like that's what that feels
like. OK, we're going somewhere else,
but it's somewhere else that makes sense.
The root people never made sense to me.
And if they're if they came from War within, that's where I we
were underground that whole time.
I feel like a root area makes so much more sense in war within.
So now that you're telling me that that makes sense is where
this zone came from, because as someone who has been like, I
think the last the last expansion that I really engaged
with not only from a rating perspective, but from like a
story and lore and characters and everything else.
And you know, played start to finish with shadow lands.
After shadow lands I fell off hard.
I say very similar to War within with Dragonflight.
I played the first the first patch and then didn't play
anything else after that. Just fell right off of it.
And I think I can see myself sticking with Midnight just
because as a Horde player, I feel like it's going back to my
stuff. I feel like it's been, you know,
Shadow lands ended all the Silvana stuff like, and then it
was like they didn't want to touch the Horde for a while.
And you know, I again, I didn't engage too much of Dragonfly and
I didn't engage too much with War Within.
So, you know, Lor nerds, don't get mad at me.
I don't know lore anymore. So I'm not saying that there was
no Horde presence, I'm saying that as a mostly like
disconnected player, I didn't feel the horde presence, like
the horde story wasn't really front and center and I had a lot
of trouble connecting with stuff because of that.
So now we're back to, you know, the blood elf side and and you
know, we could just spend time in Silver Moon.
We get to spend time in ever song and that just makes my
little horde heart happy. So I think I will be sticking
with midnight. But again, like Lornerd's don't
get mad at me. Even watching like the
previously on I was like this story doesn't make any sense.
Like what is happening? It's like we jump from like one
place with the with the Nerubians to another place with
somebody else in another place and all of a sudden we're with
the Oh crap. What are they called?
The the, the, oh, the broker guys.
Oh yeah. Ethereals.
Ethereals in general, it's the
it's. The IT was, it was very
confusing watching like what happened in War Within.
I was just like, OK, so now there's the there's like a God
or something in a necklace. Yeah, yeah.
OK, whatever you say, give me the Hearthstone Tavern and I'm
happy. I mean, obviously in the initial
part you were talking about doing the soiree with the with
the blood elves. Have you been enjoying the
Tavern? The the.
Argentina, the Argentina, thank you, yes, very much.
Again, like when I'm not forced to interact with very specific
content, then I'm able to explore the world a whole lot
more. And I have really enjoyed the
Argentina because you're going to like all different places all
over Azeroth and finding these like, I guess like artifacts and
display pieces that then you have to find a place for in the
Tavern. And I'm like, there's just
something about that. Like once a week I just go to
the Tavern, I check in, I'm like, hey, how's it going?
What are we finding this week? What story are we going back to?
And it's been really enjoyable. It's just one of those things
where you just have to go do it once, experience it, enjoy it,
and then it's done. And there's no like pressure
because there's like a piece of or 90 gear back there or
something. I don't know.
I don't even know my my. I'm gonna help you out.
You're at 2:55 and that's the the range we're in.
I apologize. I didn't think it would matter,
but this is We're coming back. Dude, No.
It just that's how disconnected I am with all of the like the
number side of the content, like the the keeping track of things.
And I mean, I've been so I guess focused on finding my joy and,
and playing my own path through the game.
I've been doing a lot of archaeology because I was trying
to get the little like clockwork gnome guy for pet battles
because I want to go win the celestial tournament, which is
Pandaria content. But I'm like, I never did this.
I stopped engaging with pet battles because it's it's the
kind of thing that I just didn't have time for when I was
constantly trying to make sure that my eye level was correct
and that my stats were right and I had all my gems and I was
getting all the things and making all the food and the
potions and the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
When I don't have to do any of that, I'm like, what could be
fun? Oh, you know what's adorable
pets. Like, let me go back through
those achievements and just find stuff I haven't done before.
And it's like I'm going all the way back into all this old
content because I don't even have like my collect all the
pets from this expand, like all the wild pets from this
expansion, Like I was getting like my drain or safari things.
And I'm like guild's making fun of me in Guild chat.
Like Josh is the new Pokémon master.
I'm like, I'm just trying to get caught up because I don't have
to raid anymore. So it's like I can poke at all
of the different things that there are to do and all the old
expansions and not have to worry that I'm wasting my time.
Air quotes. That is amazing.
I guess I want to go through like different parts of the game
and see if you're connecting with them.
So obviously you were just talking about pet battling.
Delves was something you just mentioned as the main thing.
How how are delves in Midnight for you versus like the War
Within? Do these hike have a little bit
more longevity for you? Yeah, so again, I feel like I
I've connected with them both pretty much the same way.
I feel like I maybe understand them a little bit better and I'm
just better at making my way through them.
I made it to Tier 11 pretty quickly but I've still really
enjoyed them because I I like how the like bountiful thing
like moves so you don't just always go to your same comfort
delves all the time and there's different iterations of them and
it was pretty similar for me in war within.
Like I enjoyed them about the same, I just didn't enjoy the
larger expansion so I fell off. But I feel like I'll probably
stay in midnight just because I enjoy logging in once or twice a
week and just like puttering around and doing things and
delves is a really big part of that.
That's probably my most like end game content.
I don't even know if delves count, but it's just really nice
to have challenging content that I can play as a solo player
because that was always my big thing is I was like, it's it's
difficult for me to at this point in my life, find time that
I can actually pull other people who have just as busy lives into
group content. And you know, without having
like a long standing like day saying like yes, we get together
every Friday night and we run, you know, Mythic Plus and stuff,
which you know, Manny and I did with another group of three
other people for a while. I just couldn't commit to that
because I was like, you know, I was having like 2 nights a week
of raid and then I had gamers in and then I had, you know, I was
basically down to well, I mean, Manny and I also have a Frost
Haven group. We play board games on Sunday
nights. So I was like, I basically now
have my, my Saturday night free. And even that is like free again
in air quotes because you know, weekends being weekends when you
work all week. So I'm like, if I, if I commit
to a raid team, if I commit to a mythic plus team, then before
you know it, I just, I have no more evenings to the no
flexibility in my schedule. So it just really didn't work
for me. So the fact that they've brought
in things like delves that can be, that can be challenging.
Like even at my, you know, I get level like 1011 delves.
Like there's times I'm dying. Like there was that.
I think it was released a little bit later.
I'm trying to remember. It's the one that's kind of like
a round behind Silver Moon. Oh, the dark way.
Maybe. Or is.
The Plaza or something? Parhelion Plaza.
So there's two, yes. There's the Dark way that's at
the docks, and then a week later the Parhelion Plaza unlocked.
As well, the Plaza is. The last one.
Yeah, the Plaza is the one I was thinking of and I went in and it
took me like, well, I went in at 11 because I was like, I do
dumps at 11 and why would I do anything else?
And it took me like 5 or 6 attempts to kill that boss.
And I was like, oh, maybe I should have gone in at like 9 or
10, but but I got there. And I feel like that's the kind
of content that I'm looking for as a single player is something
that I can go into that's going to challenge me, that's going to
kill me. And then I'm going to have to
adjust my play style and actually make a strategy.
But I don't have to go like look for a strategy.
It's like, it's a very delicate balance, I think between making
something so punishing that nobody can get past it or making
it way too easy and just allowing your, because I at this
point am a very average player. So like making it so that your
average player can look at their spells and look at their kit and
be like, hey, I need to make sure that I'm, you know,
interrupting this spell. Like I've done it four Times
Now. This is the thing that kills me.
I have to make sure I interrupt is up.
Like that's the kind of thing that I want out of single player
content where I don't have to go get a friend with more
interrupts. I just have to like look at
what's happening in front of me and play the game.
And they've done a really good job.
As far as I can tell. They've done a really good job
in Dells. Maybe more hardcore players feel
differently, but as someone who plays once or twice a week on a
good week, I feel like there's a good balance there.
Bringing up interrupts and knowing what the what affects
you, that kind of goes into one of the big things with Midnight,
which is this overhaul that they've done with both the
classes themselves, simplifying or rather streamlining those as
well as adjusting the UI. So no more week or is how have
you interacted with the game in this?
Like add on apocalypses, they've called it before.
I think I've been really lucky because I was out of it for a
little while. So I mean, I loved my weak
auras, loved them. I do really miss it because I
feel like I have a lot less information now.
But at the same time, I feel like that information doesn't
matter quite as much just because I'm not doing like
heroic or mythic rating because I am not doing mythic Plus.
I'm like, do I actually really need to know if my bleed is
constantly up on the target? Like probably not realistically.
Like for the content that I'm doing for the level that I'm
playing at, I don't need all of the information that my weak
auras were were giving me. I have not rated, so I feel like
I would be I that would be a stretch for me to actually get
back to the level that I was without a weak aura.
I think like I said, I haven't actually rated so I don't know.
Maybe they have simplified things to the point where I
don't need that level of information in order to perform
and it's more about timing and positioning and that kind of
stuff, which I do think is really important in rating.
And the part that I liked the most was, you know, having to
position certain ways for certain mechanics.
That was always my favorite thing is like having to get to a
place with a certain number of people to soak the thing.
Having to make sure that you're like not in the tail super, not
in the frontal cone, you know, having things falling from the
sky and having to move around to get out of the way.
It was that movement that I always thought was what made the
fights the most interesting because you weren't just
standing there spamming your buttons.
I say that as a hunter, obviously I can move a whole lot
more than most, if not all classes, so I get it.
But those were that was always my favorite raid mechanics were
the ones that made you have to think about where you were and
what you were doing and how you were doing it.
So, you know, I, I think those are the things I don't
necessarily need weak auras for. I think Wow has been really good
at even I've noticed like in the world boss fights and stuff
after rating, I can tell what abilities from like the world
bosses need to be soaked or need to be avoided.
Like they, their symbology is very good.
So yeah, I, I think like maybe I'd be OK, maybe in rating, but
I, I miss my weak aura for sure. I do think again, I'm a hunter,
I'm a beastmaster hunter. I have three buttons and I kind
of hate it because I'm like, I might as well use like the auto
button because there's like, I mean, there already wasn't a
whole lot to the class. I feel like now there's even
less to the hunter. And to the point that I've been
looking at the other specs, 'cause I'm like, even though I'm
just kind of like going around doing some world class and not
do and, and, you know, filling out Loremaster and not really
doing any like sustained fights. I still am getting bored 'cause
I'm like, you know, Barb shot, kill, command, cobra shot,
repeat. Like look.
For a little bit more meat in that rotation.
Exactly the fact that I know the names of my spells, that is.
That is not OK. That is.
Just not how it should be. I should be being like, yeah,
the red one and then the green one, and then I don't even know,
'cause there's eighteen colors and things are always flashing.
No, Hunter's three things. I, I, I don't know if you.
Count your your cool down but I I don't. 18 things flashing at
you and I don't know, sounds like a trauma response and
you've been you need to. Yeah, maybe I need to look at
myself a little bit. It's like when things are calm
and there aren't 18 things to manage, then that's when I start
to get stressed out. Yeah, you're right that I think
this might be a me thing. It might be a World of Warcraft
thing. I think we're all a little bit
in that same boat, but you're looking at the different specs
and so you're going from Beastmaster and you're looking
at the other ones. Have you been looking at like
the different hero talents and different specs and being like,
oh, this one looks cool? Or has has your thoughts drifted
to like, oh, what 1 performs the best when you're really just
playing like this? The content that you're playing
like, does that pull still matter to you at all?
So many What are hero talents? That is, that is the level of
Wow I'm playing right now. So when you're when you're
choosing your spec. Yes.
No, I know. It's the big button in the
middle that lets me choose. Yeah, So I'm not in the middle.
Yeah, the big thing in the middle.
Yeah, I'm not. I'm not totally, completely out
of the jargon, but I mean, I can't even tell you as a
Beastmaster hunter which one I chose.
Like I, I'm pretty sure I went in and just chose like starter
build or something. And like, I have not touched it.
I have not looked at it because again, I'm not engaging with any
sort of content where that matters at all.
Like we're talking about changes of like 2 to 5%.
I don't give a like, I just I, I just really don't care and I
feel like that is the healthiest Wow mentality I have had since I
started playing the game. I'm like, I really and truly,
honestly don't care. And for the most part I've
picked passive, which is probably why my rotation is only
three buttons. But I've picked like passive
overactive a lot. And I'm just like, you know
what? I just don't want to think about
it. I want to just go and be a
hunter and tell my pets to go bite things.
And you know, like that is enough of the fantasy for me
right now. So I have also been levelling up
some of my other characters. So I've got my Rep pally, my
shadow priest and my mage. I haven't really touched my
shaman. Is shaman still fun?
So I've been playing enhancement shaman.
I've recently switched to elemental shaman.
Elemental shaman is really flashy, really like you know,
lightning bolts going everywhere and all of that sort of things.
All the effects are there. The way that I describe it is a
whole lot of sizzle. And then if you are min maxi
there, maybe we start questioning about the steak, but
it's it's it's pulling numbers. It's more survivable.
Actually, little aside shaman talk enhancement finally coming
came with some buffs to it because it was underperforming.
These are these are the patch note words, not mine.
Underperforming in both raids and mythic plus, which is like
well OK that's everything to me. I was going to say, I think I
have proven over the last half hour that that is not in fact
everything, but I get what you mean.
That like 4 people who are playing at that higher level,
that more hardcore level than absolutely Mythic Plus and and
raids are the the stick by which we measure all.
I get it, Yeah. For anybody who is like,
involved enough that they're actually reading patch notes,
yes. Then yes, yeah, I haven't read a
patch note in like 4 years and I'm so much happier for it.
Aw, I'll tell Kyvax you said hi though.
Anyway, OK, so that's, that's where we're at with like, you
know, how much the balancing is affecting you, how much you're
like deciding. Yeah, big.
Doughnut on that. So then what about things that
aren't about like numbers tuning for damage and such?
Do you dabble in professions at all?
So not so much honestly, I just, I have my double gathering
profession. So I just have my herbs in my
minds and I just as I'm going through and existing in the
world, I'm getting those too, which is kind of a nice little
like passive gold come on the back end because I'm like, I'm
out here anyway. I'm not rushing to anything.
I might as well like pick all the flowers as I go.
Like, I don't think you understand how like calm of a
wild wire I am now, Manny. I'm like, there's flowers over
there. Snoop, Snoop, Snoop.
I'm literally stopping to smell the roses and wow.
Have you touched the prey system?
Yes, OK, so yes, that's another thing because I am basically out
clearing my world quest all the time.
I found the prey system is makes the whole thing a lot more
different and engaging because I'm like I'm basically choosing
like a mini boss to follow me around and annoy the hell out of
me while I'm doing the world quest.
So, and I do find that it is, I, I think, and this might be total
and complete coincidence, but it seems like a very intelligent
system because I will basically be like in a world quest, I'll
pull a big group of mobs, I will blow all my cooldowns, all my 1
cooldown, and then will like have nothing left.
And then the little mini boss guy will show up And I'm like,
oh man, I have nothing for you right now.
And I've also pulled five other things.
And it seems like when I'm just like wandering around doing not
much, it's, I don't get ambushed.
It's, you know, when I, when I have no cooldowns left, when
I've got, you know, a whole bunch of things that are trying
to hit me all at the same time, That's when they show up.
And it does make you like think about things a little bit more
and maybe change and alter how you play.
I've really enjoyed the prey system that's mostly like the
kind of like world repeatable, like world events, the delves
the prey system like and, and just world quest in general is
really what I've been engaging in the most.
I haven't really been doing, I do the follower dungeons every
once in a while, like mostly just to see the story or, you
know, just poke around and play some dungeon mechanics when I
know I've got time. But yeah, I've really enjoyed
the prey system. I think it's a it's a good
addition. I feel like maybe I'm I've out
levelled it at this point because like today I was playing
through and I I did all the hard guys.
I was like none of you guys are particularly hard anymore where
I feel like the first week, no, I don't know what nightmare mode
is. There's one more difficulty on
top. OK, yeah, so I need to figure
out how to unlock that then because I I did all my hard guys
today and I was like meh, you guys really aren't that great.
Where is before they were like. Cold opening because out of
contact cost. It just, it's one of those
things where they were really difficult in the first week or
two I engaged with the system. But now with me being 755 or
whatever, I'm just going to keep doing that to you, Manny.
Not what I knew was purposeful. I'm like, I'm not thinking.
But yeah, like now that my item level is so much higher and I've
engaged with the system and I'm starting to see the same, the
same adversaries, I'm like, OK, I know what to do here.
And it becomes a little bit more trivial.
So knowing that there's a whole other difficulty level, man,
I've been slacking. You've been going at your own
pace, you've been enjoying the IT, you're now hungry for more
and so it's good that the difficulty is there, OK?
Yeah, and it's funny too, because like, I have not like
read an article. I have not.
Like I said, I haven't read any patch notes.
Like I'm literally just moving through Warcraft with whatever
they throw in front of me. And if I don't get a quest
thrown in front of me, I'm like, I had no idea that that was a
thing. So yeah, even the, like, they
throw follower dungeons right in front of you, which I very much
appreciated because except it took me longer than I care to
admit to figure out how to, like, get back into them without
the quest. I was like, I get I'm going to
like the meeting stones and then like walking up to every NPC and
I'm, do you want to come with me?
Is this how I start them? Then like, I click on them and
they're like, what are you bothering me for?
No one ever even realizes I'm here.
Like I just. I just want some friends please.
I, I, I think that you would have to explain to me how to do
fall or dungeons because I did them like the once and I'm just
sort of like never again. Like I know, I I know that
they're supposed to be for people who, you know, again,
don't, don't have the time to like get a group together or
maybe have anxiety about group group content.
Which is 100% me. I'm like, I do not want to be in
here with real people. That is like my no thank you.
I just like I don't play any important role.
Like I'm not a healer, I'm not a tank, but I am still envisioning
people just yelling at me and I'm like, I don't need that in
my life. Give me the give me the NPCS
please. I'm like.
Listen, that anxiety is from top to bottom, Sean, Hall of Fame.
Sean, we're going to keep doing that too because he just got
Hall of Fame. He does keys at at the Keystone
level 1, like different characters and all that.
And he does, he doesn't do the competitive flag.
He like filters those out because he doesn't want to deal
with the same sort of yelling and everything.
And I, I myself soon as they added that filter, I'm like,
Yep, just relaxed. I'm not going to do a learner at
like the key levels that I'm doing because I feel like you're
should be beyond learner at that point.
But I. Didn't even know that that was a
thing. I didn't even I stumbled across,
I think it was automatic. Jack was streaming live on
TikTok and I stumbled across him this evening and I saw that like
there were those extra like competitive, relaxed, whatever
flags on the group Finder. And I was like, wonder what that
is? Is that a thing that they're
everyone's typing in now? I'm like, way to go community.
No, it's it's a Warcraft thing. OK.
It's a nice, it's good now, obviously, because it's just A
tag that says relaxed versus competitive.
What? Competitive is what.
Relax is what? Learner is it's up.
To for interpretation. So I go by what?
It's not right. If I go into a relaxed key, I'm
not expecting these people to like bail out the first time we
wipe, right? If I go into a learner key, I'm
not expecting that if we're not timing.
We're not finishing this, Yeah. Like we might, we might time it.
You could have some learning, but like I have a higher
expectation that like we won't time time this.
So I do like that that kind of filter exists.
But at the same point, if I wanted to do a a follow
retention, just because it's like, you know what?
I don't want to talk to anybody. I just want to do this for a
quest. There's weekly quest to do
whatever dungeon, right? And some of them are not
dungeons in the current season. So yeah, knowing how to do a
follower dungeon is something I might need to get you to teach
me. It's literally you just queue
for it like you do any other dungeon.
It's just an option in the drop down now is to queue for
follower dungeon. OK.
Yeah, no. Well, but if you're not looking
for it, like there are so many systems and so many windows and
UI pieces to Warcraft now because the game is just so big
that I don't blame you for not knowing where things are half
the time. I don't know where things are
more than half the time now. But you know, like there are a
lot of menus and and buttons and things to navigate.
Not surprised that you don't know where follower dungeons is
in the one drop down menu. Like you're not looking.
Forward to know everything. Hold your comment reader #27.
Yeah, no, it's definitely there's a lot to the game now.
That's actually one thing that I haven't engaged with as much is
housing is. And that was kind of surprised
because like to me, the housing system is almost too
overwhelming. Like there's too much to it all
at once because I mean, like, you basically have to make that
your entire game. Like that is your end game is
housing. I mean, there are so many
different ways to earn those cosmetics.
They're all over the place in all of the old expansions and
everything too. It just vendors across
everywhere. And I think even not only just
collecting all of those cosmetics, but then also having
to take the time to go back to your house and to place
everything and like that is a game in and of itself.
I am sure that in fact, I know because I follow some of them on
TikTok that is their entire World of Warcraft is, is just
they go into their house and they play The Sims and that is
totally fine. And that is amazing that that
system exists now. I engaged with it right off the
bat and very quickly bounced off of it just because I was like,
this isn't the game that I, that I personally play Warcraft for
like I like the combat. I like the the larger story, but
the fact that that system exists is crazy.
Like it is so robust and there is so much to it, so much so
that I don't even understand everything that there is to it.
So yeah, I think that like there, there just is so much in
World of Warcraft now that there are tons and tons of systems to
engage with. And I'm not surprised that you
don't know where absolutely every single little thing is
Many. OK, so housing, that was
something I that I did want to get to.
But yeah, I like, I do love that, you know, you know,
exists. You tried it.
The fact that you bounce off it because it's so expansive
already. And it's like housing just came
out of early release at the beginning of midnight.
So clearly they've made a big splash with it.
Now obviously you you liked one of my posts that I put put up
about one of the packages. That is a whole other There's
not much that makes me rage about Warcraft these days
because of the way I'm engaging with it.
But this is something that we have seen not only in World of
Warcraft. I'm I will die on the hill that
this is what killed Heroes of the Storm is like this kind of
pricing where digital cosmetic goods are coming up to, you
know, forty $5075. That's disgusting.
That's the cost of an entire game.
And it's not even a Blizzard specific thing.
Like it happens over in Fortnite and everything else to like
anywhere there are cosmetics. Those prices have been creeping
up. But the thing that really pisses
me off is putting another currency.
And again, this is not Blizzard specific.
This is everywhere, putting another currency between you and
the price so that you don't understand how much money you're
spending when you buy the thing in game.
That makes me very angry because that is not consumer friendly at
all. And I think when you combine
rising prices with that kind of obscuring of what the price
actually is, that's when you're just asking for the system to
fail. Like I think they try to do it
to trick people into it, and people just end up seeing posts
like here's Manny where it's like, wait, this thing is 75
real life American dollars. What?
It's a tree. A digital tree A.
Digital tree. It's like, how much would the
lumber cost make a tree house in my backyard?
Yeah, like, literally, if I went to like a nursery right now and
went and bought a baby Maple tree, it would cost me 75 real
dollars, and that's a real tree to plant in my yard.
Like, come on, people. These are digital goods.
This is insanity. So with like the store doing all
these things, we've got the $75 tree and the $40 flying squirrel
bundle. I'm assuming that like, unless
people are pointing it out to you, like unfortunately I did,
this is all sort of flowing under the radar for you.
The store hasn't become so invasive in game that you're
seeing this stuff right? Oh yeah, no, not at all.
I mean, the pop ups that I see in game now are basically just
like the when there's a new patch, like hey, guess what,
this new content is out here. I haven't notice pop ups from
the store. Maybe I've just been because
usually I just dismiss them because I'm like read patch
notes. So maybe they have been store
pop ups and I just haven't noticed because I don't engage
with the pop ups at all. But for the most part, the store
hasn't really been to in my face or to bothersome really.
But I do find it like super frustrating just the the cost of
things. And it like it's really nice
that there are whales who will probably pay those prices.
But I think it's starting to be in this economy.
It's starting to be a really, really big ask, right?
And and it's also part of what has discouraged me from getting
too involved involved with housing is because it does seem
like there's an element of the best of the best stuff, like all
of the coolest things, all of the most detailed items and
everything else are behind that paywall.
Like you can find a lot of really cool stuff in game.
And that's a lot of the creators that I follow over on TikTok who
are making housing content will say like this is very
specifically items from like XYZ vendors and not using premium
content in order to create these things.
And the things that they are making are insane.
Like they, the things that they have created.
And it honestly, that's part of the deterrent too, is I'm like,
my brain doesn't work like that. Yeah.
They're like, oh, yeah, you just have to like, take this lamp and
flip it over backwards and then turn it 60° and you'll have a
coffee maker. And I'm like what the hell?
That makes as much sense as like, you know, the Transformers
movies. It's like, it's like, wait,
what? Exactly how did that robot
become a car again? Yeah, it's exactly like that
where, you know, I just like don't have the money to engage
with all of the like super fancy pre made stuff.
Don't have the brain to engage with the go buy 10 of this thing
and all of a sudden you'll have a a floral fountain in the
middle of your house. So like I'm kind of stuck with
the the few things that I've earned and you know, like my
house is, I think I might have upgraded to like a medium house
right away. And I was like, this is too big.
This is too much space. I don't know what to do with all
of the space. But that being said, I can very
much recognize the coolness of the system because I really
liked in particular the part of your house when I came in to see
it like literally day one. It's probably totally changed
now, but you had like your hall of accomplishments and like, it
was literally like a big hallway and you had like all of your
like raiding trophies and all that kind of stuff on the walls
and stuff. That to me was so cool.
The fact that you have a spot that you can go to and be like,
I helped kill Deathwing or, you know, like I had.
These are all of my accomplishments over all of the
years of Warcraft that I thought was really, really, really cool.
Oh, I'm glad that you like that. And generally I'm glad that the
store hasn't ruined everything. So overall for For Midnight, has
it like held your enthusiasm? Does it look promising?
Have you like heard about some of the new stuff coming?
So if I were to mention Labyrinth, do you do you have
any idea what that is? That went right over my head.
No idea. OK, I know we talked about
flexible mythic rating. You're like, oh wow, I'm really
glad that they were doing that. Obviously that's not something
that you would be pushing, pushing towards, but like what's
your thoughts on like that kind of angle?
Well, OK, you're so flexible. Mythic rating makes me so
excited because I know as a raid leader, when we were raiding
AOTC content, it was like you get to a certain point and when
you had a a good committed group where because heroic was
flexible, there was nothing left for you to do.
It's like you might get AOTC halfway through the season and
then it was like, OK, but we have 23 people or we have 17
people and you don't necessarily want to cut people because
you're not a hardcore mythic group.
You don't necessarily want to bring in randos because it is
so, so easy with even one or two people to ruin the tone of your
raid group. And I think that you can very
quickly kind of get to a place where nobody wants to play
anymore, either because you're cutting dedicated Raiders or
because you're bringing in randos.
Either way has the potential to totally disrupt the dynamic of
your group. And it only takes one raid patch
to not be able to come back from it, right?
And then you go into heroic in the next tier and people are
just like, I don't really want to be here or I went found a new
team or, you know, whatever. The dynamics of a raid are so
fragile. So I think like when you get a
good group and you're doing a certain amount of content, it's
nice that when you finish that content, there's another
challenge waiting for you. And I don't think that that
should be gated behind a certain specific number.
And I think that the higher level teams, the people who are
doing like race to world first and whatever, they're the ones
who can make those kind of decisions.
They're the ones that can easily say like you're benched if it
turns out that like 16 people is the magic number for this boss,
that makes it super easy because you only get like 3 of a really
difficult mechanic instead of four or five.
Let them figure that out. Who cares?
Like give the average player more to do and I think removing
that block and even if you want to keep it at 20 people until
Hall of Fame is full or whatever, and then make it
flexible. However you bring that system
in, having flexible mythic rating is such a good idea
because it's going to give those heroic teams something to do
another challenge, another push and keep them engaged through
the entire tier instead of having people fall off when
there's still a month or two left and just be like I'll be
back next year. Like if you you're a
subscription based game like keep your Subs.
It seems like a no brainer to me and honestly I can't believe
it's taking them this long to even start.
You're talking about bringing in a system like that.
It's just it's so easy to me that that is absolutely what you
should be doing. OK.
I guess one thing you had said is like, you know, keeping
people engaged through until the next year.
One thing that's been coming up especially with this 12 point O
5 is like how quickly they've been going with this eight week
cadence, right? You're taking like 10 days
before the after the patch to play.
You're on your own sort of schedule.
So patches don't have the same impact for you, but do you find
that the game is going too slow, too fast, just right?
Like how do you like your porridge?
Honestly, I I've been pretty happy with the amount of things
there are for me to do. But again, that's not engaging
with the end game stuff right? Like I have enough delves
they've kept me happy. I would say that the stuff that
came out this like Void ritual stuff feels exactly the same as
what was already there. Like it's the same as what you
were doing in Void Storm Zone, whatever place, right?
Except for now it's on like the steps of Silver Moon and I'm
kind of like, okay, but it's the same so.
Yeah, strikes are definitely, well, I, I, I bounced off them,
but yeah, I would say they're kind of the same.
Yeah, it's like you have a few waves and then there's like a
big boss or whatever. And it didn't seem like that
impactful. It was just the same thing in
another place, at least again to me.
Who's not engaging with it on any sort of like really truly
meaningful level. So I was kind of like, OK, this
is kind of like a blah, whatever.
It's just another thing for me to do in Eversong, which is
good. I'll always take more content in
the zone that I love to be in. Cool.
But yeah, like it hasn't really impacted me necessarily.
I did do one of, I did do a ritual thing today, which I
thought was pretty cool because it's basically like a repurposed
delve almost. So I was like, OK, this is just
again, more content in the type of content that I want to do.
I'm not necessarily at the point where I'm feeling overwhelmed,
but if I ever got there, I'd just drop something like I'd
stop doing world quests or something.
The only reason I'm even really doing world quests right now is
because of the prey system is I'm like, well, I got to do my
hunts, so I got to do my world quests to draw them out, you
know? So, but yeah, I mean, overall, I
don't think it's necessarily like too fast.
Maybe I would feel differently if I was like raiding, but I
yeah, I don't know. I should check in with my old
raid team and see if they've got AOTC yet, if they're if they're
looking for new content or not. That's totally fine.
At at one point through this conversation, I'm like, we
should do get your crit back together.
Right. But I also really love how
you've explained how you're engaging with the game, how the
level that you're engaging with this pace that you're engaging
with. Like I, I don't want to talk
about like the trap cheese on prey or whatever min Max
strategy people have to do that sort of stuff because like from
my eyes, the way that you're engaging is the way that it
should be engaged with. Like I understand why people
will optimize things, but there is such a thing as optimizing
the fun out of a game. That was very much how it was
starting to feel when I was rating is that there was no room
for the fun anymore. It was like, OK, you are X
class, you should be doing Y damage.
And if you're, you know, 10% above or below that ideal, it
was like a huge deal. So the people who were above, it
was like, Oh my God, you're a God.
And then the people who are below, it's like you don't have
a spot on the team anymore. And I'm like, that is not my
vibe. That is, that's not, that's not
what I want to do with my life. So, you know, and, and even
then, like I, I, I say that, but I did have AI did have a very
good raid team. And, and you know, like I've
been through two or three different raid teams now at this
point and I have enjoyed my time with all of them.
So please don't anyone take those comments to like
personally, as it was directed at you or you as a raid leader
or anything else. But it was just how I was
starting to feel with the game. Is that like if you were
underperforming, there was this huge pressure to get better,
whether that was through your potions or your gear or your
gems or, you know, like looking at different rotations or
changing specs because yours wasn't, you know, the the best
of your class, you know that kind of stuff.
And I was like again, like you say, min maxing the fun out of
it is like that's not the way I want to play.
Like I want to be a beastmaster hunter or like I want to be a
shadow priest, like, and you know, be wanting to be very,
very specific about things. And, you know, if you're telling
me I can't do that and still like play the game with you,
then that's going to make me feel bad.
And I just don't want to feel bad in my games anymore.
So, you know, and there are, you know, more casual teams that I
can join. Absolutely, because I know I
tend to join very competitive teams because I do like to be
very, if I'm going to do something, I do want to compete
and be good at the thing that I'm doing.
But once you get down to the point where you're like 5 or 10%
is going to make or break your position on a team that just, I
don't like that anymore. So it's been really nice to not
have to care about that and to just find the fun again in a
game that I have enjoyed for many, many, many, many years at
this point. So I feel like that's what I'm
doing now is I'm I'm finding the fun again.
OK, so last question for those who might want to break away
from Wow but they're not quite ready to touch actual grass yet,
what's like a game that you would recommend for people to to
play that's not Wow? Oh, man, I mean, like that is,
oh, that is a big question because there's so much stuff
out there right now. I mean, I I don't.
Even know world outside. Of Warcraft there is a whole
world outside of Warcraft and then there's a whole world
outside of gaming so like I know double brain explosion there but
I mean for me I've been absolutely loving 2 point museum
and they have a new DLC coming out soon so I that I think is
the most recent game where I got all of the achievements.
I've also really been loving just came out Masters of Albion.
It's still in early access, but that one also is very, very
good. But again, those are very like,
they are totally different than Wow.
Like, that is like if you are wild lovers, don't play either
one of those games because those are not Wow.
Yeah. And I mean, if you haven't
played clear obscure yet, come on, go do that right now before
you log into raid. Go start that game because it is
brilliant. I'll, I'll do that.
I've got a couple of days before.
Oh, actually, no rage tomorrow. We'll we'll get on that.
No wait, no. Tomorrow, Sunday.
I apologize. Yeah.
OK, I got two days. I can I can do this.
Well, thank you so much. It was great like talking about
this and like getting that viewpoint because it even though
like, you know, we have three different people with three
different viewpoints on the World of Warcraft podcast that
is for Azeroth. There's a lot more out there.
And so it really is great to have you back and giving that
perspective. But you do cover a lot of
different games where people find you and the stuff that you
do. You can find me over on Blue Sky
if you would like. I'm at josplays.com.
Or you can go and check out my general gaming podcast.
It's the Gamers In. I've been talking about it for
years and years and years, because I've been doing it for
15 years now. We've been doing the Gamers In.
So yeah, if you are a general gamer or if you're curious about
gaming outside of World of Warcraft, then yeah, go and
check out The Gamers In. Well, that's going to do it for
us today. Until next time, may all your
hits be crits.