Maybe you'll get the loot that much faster because you got EP
mcsween up on your raid. I've done a dungeon with him,
he's actually pretty good at mechanics.
He's a blowhard. We don't need him.
Victory for the Forsaken. For Lauderon for the Karen tour
for. Pandaria.
For calendar to the. Burning region for Gilnaeus or
has not died for the Lich king for the.
Sindora for the alliance. For the horn for Azeroth.
Hello and welcome back to another episode of For Azeroth.
I am one of your hosts, Manny, and of joining me is of course
the other two parts of The Triumphant.
Of course, joining us first is Lex.
Lex, how is the World of Warcraft treating you this week?
It's been treating me well. I have really dug into delves
again this week and in fact this week I had the thought, you
know, I don't actually have to do M plus for this entire season
if I don't want to. And I like felt my body relax.
So looks like I'm not doing M plus this season but that's OK
because I have my fun little delves to gear through and get
my hero gear and I get to Bob with my raid and have a good
time. OK.
And you're, I know you had done
8 and I think you had tried an 11 last week.
Are you still doing around there?
I tried a nine. Isn't it hard?
You guys are right, they're tough, but I did like having a
little bit more challenge. I will also say the undertaker
is wait, no, not the the underpin.
The underpin, excuse me, man's tricky.
He has so many ads it's crazy. So we're going to keep working
on that, but. It's not the.
So that's going to be question mark, not double question mark,
OK. Yeah.
Just question Mark. No, no.
I started with double question mark.
I was like, I bet I can do this. I bet it's not as hard as people
were saying. And then I went back out and was
like, I'm going to do this on one question mark.
I bet I can do that. That's probably not as hard as
people are saying. And then I went out and I'm
like, I'm going to gear a little more and then we'll try again.
Got it, got it. And where are you in your gear
progression? I am up to 641.
I have 0 jewellery from this season though, so both of my
rings and my necklace are 619. Season 1 little grey text and I
really got to figure out crafting and I've never crafted
anything in my life and I'm broke as a joke so I'm probably
not actually going to figure out crafting.
But I got it. I got it because I really should
not be at this point in the game with no necklace and no rings
for this season. But maybe next of all.
OK, I mean, necks are hard to come by this season.
I actually did a search through and looked at all the things.
It's just like there's barely any neck drops the dungeon pool
cause like we've got dungeons from BFA, right?
Which means no necks there. And there are literally 22IN all
of the dungeon pools. And then in the raid, I think
there's two for me. It's, it's, it's pretty, pretty
vicious. So you're, you're not alone.
I've crafted a neck and I'm going to be re crafting a neck
as soon as I get a enough of the concentration to do the earthen
crafted. Cause I've been making that neck
for everybody else. And now I know why.
Yeah. Let's get an order from me,
Manny. That's why there.
You go, you just let me know. I can.
I can do some Joel crafting. I'll jump into your guilt for a
little bit quickly. Make it for you.
You're broke as a joke, so this will be a labor of love, not
profit. I have some money, I have like
50,000 gold I think. Not even my of all my war band,
not even the lowest salt has only 50K.
Anyways, going over to somebody who might also be a little bit
broke as a joke because it is that that part of going through
progression and so forth. Sean, hello, how are you and
how's the World of Warcraft been treating you?
Warcraft's been great. I'm actually pretty flushed this
season. I did a bunch of farming at the
end of last season once we wrapped up everything, so I
haven't had to buy a token yet. So there you go Manny.
I'm sitting on an easy 4 to 500 K rich there.
You go, there you go. That's that's pretty solid
there. Yeah, Warcraft's been great.
I we killed Sticks Bunk Junker on NA last week.
It was a pretty good kill. The team did really well and
then we got Sprocketmonger lock and stock, first of his name,
King of the Andals to 31%. I want to say no 34%.
And then on EU, I read on EU as well.
We, we got AOTC on Sunday, which is it's an AOTC Guild that I'm
in on EU because I couldn't possibly maintain 2 mythic
rating characters on two different regions.
And that was a lot of fun. That team did great.
So we're in the postseason for them, which means I can start my
gold farm early over there. We're only one month in.
I got about 5 months of of herbing and mining to do so
that's pretty good. So I should be good for gold for
a bit. It's tough one of you because I
can't buy tokens there. I'm a big big fan of the token
purchase, but because I have an NAB net account, I can't
purchase EU tokens. I would have to change the
region of my B net, which would then mean I couldn't buy NA
tokens. So I am restricted to only
getting gold in EU by farming. Wait, how hard is it to change
your region though? Like could you just like do that
on like a daily basis anytime you wanted to?
I'm going. To be honest with you, I don't
know, but it's a minor annoyance, which means it's
beyond the scope that I'm willing to consider that's.
Entirely fair. It's actually impossible.
Yeah, I, we tried to change the faucet in our bathtub on
Saturday. Honestly wanted to put a we have
like a one of those cast iron claw foot bathtubs and it just
had a faucet like a like a what do you spell it?
And. You rub oil?
Yeah, we rub oil on it. Yeah.
You got to get them. You got to season them.
You got to be. And so she wanted a wanted like
a shower nozzle on there and put a shocker around it.
To swap a faucet in a bathroom like that, because it's open,
it's. It should be as easy as you undo
the compression nuts that are currently on the faucet.
Take the two lock nuts off. Pull the faucet open, put the
new faucet in, lock nuts on. Reattach the compressor nuts.
Bob, Compression nuts. Bob's your uncle.
It was not that easy for us. It was 6 1/2 hours.
One of the compression nuts was bent.
At one point there was water spraying all over the back of
the wall when we tried to see if we had put them on right.
I then attempted to get it to stop dripping.
I have multiple bruises and four cuts and we ended up calling a
plumber who came on Monday and at that point we were so
frustrated with the new shower nozzle that we put in that we
asked him just to put the old one in.
So I spent this weekend $230 on a new shower faucet for our
bathtub and then $125.00 to have a plumber put it all back the
way it was before we started. Which for those keeping a score
at home, is what Anjali suggested we do on Saturday
morning. She said, why don't we just get
an attachment on the wall with a little claw and I'll just
because the one we have up there now has like a, one of those
handheld things with a hose. She's like, I'll just hang it up
on there. She's the one that's here.
I'll just hang it up. And I was like, no, no, no, we
got to get you a nice one. We have.
It's going to be easy. It's going to be so easy.
Anyway, Warcraft great. I'm.
Really glad Angela is back. Yeah, I'm glad she's back too.
You know, I'm glad she's back. But while she was gone, there
was no plumbers required in this house.
And I believe pretty soon you're going to be hopping across the
pond. Yeah.
May I fly out May 7th for LFG 2 and that runs May 10th and 11th.
And I can't announce it yet because they haven't announced
it yet, but there will be a special recruiter friend episode
recorded live on scene with somebody that is very cool.
Oh, is it me? It is.
It could be you. No it.
Couldn't because I'm going to be in.
Boss, but I can't. But I can't say who it is, but
it's, it's, I'm pretty excited about it.
I'm really looking forward to to talking to this person.
They have mirrors at home. If you want to talk to somebody,
cool, you don't have to fly out. That's true.
I'm talking to two cool people right now.
Yeah. And I'm in the conversation too.
So I'm glad that World of Warcraft is going well for you
guys. That progression is going well
in delves and rating and so forth.
But one thing that has been hitting the servers is a number
of hot fixes for not delves, not raids, but the dungeons.
And I'm. I'm glad to see these hot fixes.
I'm glad to see them constantly changing things.
Last week we had fortified, but it was like OG fortified, not
the regular fortified. Instead of getting the nice 20%
health buff, the these guys were packing more punch than usual
and Blizzard took some time, realized oops that was a mistake
and we got the proper fortified back.
And I'm glad for that. Were you doing dungeons quick
enough for this, or did this elude your your sights there,
Sean? I mean, I had been doing
dungeons since this this, this bug was in place for the whole
start. Like this has been in place
since start of the season. So everybody was doing them
harder than they should have been, and they feel a lot easier
now. Pull sizes have increased.
Get ready for those MDI pulls. Lex.
I can't believe I have to just ask this.
This is the best Mythic Plus season I think I've ever played
in terms of both accessibility and fun, and this is the season
you're choosing to quit. Yeah, So I, so first of all, I
think Mythic Plus is I, I, I want to be really clear, that
was not me saying other people should also quit Mythic Plus.
The only argument I would like to make from that is to remember
that this is a video game that exists for fun.
And if there's anything in this video game that's not fun for
you, just don't. Just don't do it.
Simply don't. It it the why why it's it to to
be clear, if you are a professional World of Warcraft
player, don't listen to me. Listen to your boss.
Then you do do all the hard stuff.
You're getting paid for it. I do hard stuff at work.
I mean not as hard as what you do probably, but I do stupid
things that I hate at work and it's the job.
That's why you're making money. But if you are not getting paid
for World of Warcraft, it's a poopa doopa doopa video game.
Have a good time. I so mythic plus hits this
perfect in between spot for me. We're like in a raid.
I don't feel like everyone's looking at me and I'm like
everyone knows when I'm doing a bad job because there's a
million other people. It's fun, right?
Even when I was a healer, there's a bunch of other people.
It's no big you tank a little bit.
I felt like I but that's, you know, whatever it's there's two
of them. They'll figure it out.
If I die, then the other tank gets cool because he gets to
kill the boss on his own. Everyone's like, oh, Kirk,
you're so good, you know, who cares?
I was actually I was trying to make Kirk look good.
So raid. I feel like I can kind of blacks
and vibe with my friends and just hoop like, you know, not
stress delves. Obviously it is me in a room and
I am bopping right along and we're having a good time and
everything is great. And so, you know, who cares?
Nobody's looking at me. We're having we're having fun
and plus I feel like everyone is looking at me and I feel like,
especially because all of my friends are really experienced
mythic plus players, I like every time things are going
badly, I feel like it is my fault And I am like, everyone is
just taking this like horrible carry.
So like, you know, to to power through and like everyone's like
having a bad time and they could be having a good time if they
were playing with anyone else, but they're playing with me.
He's having a bad time. So mythic plus has always been a
little bit overly like more stressful for me.
And I felt very like observed and like even even outside.
And I want to be really clear. This is I none of my friends
have ever made me feel like a bad carrier.
My friends are incredible. They're wonderful.
They just want to play with me. I know that in my thought brain,
I know that in my feeling brain, I feel like an asshole.
Sorry, Manny, but so for like even beyond that, like I just, I
feel like everyone can see when I make a mistake in mythic plus
in a way that I don't really feel enraged because there's so
many more people and I don't feel in doubt because they're
zero people. So mythic plus is always tough
for me. And then this tier, there's, you
know, gestures vaguely, the happenings of the world that
have my anxiety up. And also everything that I do
has to compete against the other option, which is sitting on a
couch while a little puppy snuggles her little body into me
and looks at me with more love than I've ever seen anyone look
at me in my life. So anything that like doesn't
bring more joy like then a little puppy look and snuggling
up at me and looking at me with more love than I've ever seen
anyone look at me in my life. It it's just, it doesn't feel as
good, right? So this season in particular, I
have found that the stressors of mythic plus are not outweighing.
I'm sorry, the the stressors are outweighing the joy for me.
And I would just rather have a slow little tier where it takes
me a while to gear. But I'm bopping through my, you
know, couple delves every week. I'm getting my keys in and then
I'm going in a rating with all my besties.
We're having a fun little time. We're chatting, chatting,
chatting away and nobody's looking at me because there's a
million people and I spend the other nights snuggling with my
little puppy. Yeah, you had me a puppy.
I get it. You're also going to have
horrific visions in 11 point 1.5 which are also solo content and
they come with a friend from Sora Dormy so and they drop
heroic tier gear so I'm sorry Heroic track gear.
I'm going to be the geared out most geared out person in my
guilt. Yeah, there you go.
All right. You know what, Lex?
You're right. You should quit this season.
Hell yeah. And again, I'm not saying that
Mythic Plus is bad. First of all, everything that I
said is ridiculous. Can I first say that I know that
every single thing I said about Mythic Plus and everyone
watching me and feeling that I care, that's stupid.
That's dumb. If you feel that way, you're
wrong. That's not how it goes.
That's not how anyone feels. And if they do feel like that,
they're an idiot. All of the mistakes are your
fault, but nobody cares. Yeah, exactly.
That's true. That's true.
But so if, if, if what you want right now is somebody to tell
you no, no, no, it's actually OK, you should do Mythic.
Plus good kind people will want to play with you.
Even if you're learning. It's OK to learn.
It's OK to make mistakes. No biggie.
If it is a biggie to somebody, they're a jerk and you should
cut them out of your life. I've heard that's so true.
Everything that I just said is 100% correct.
Go do mythic plus have fun. If what you want is somebody to
tell you it's a, it's a silly little video game and if
anything is not making you feel good in it right now, it's OK to
just decide that's not a thing you're going to do.
Whether that's mythic plus, whether that's raid, whether
that's grind gold obviously is another one that I don't do.
Whether that's Delve, babe, I got you.
Don't do the bad. Don't do things that feel bad in
a silly video game. It's silly video game.
Go have fun with your silly video games and boop, boop,
boop, boop. Have fun.
Anyway, that's my take of the day.
So I think, yeah, if you're enjoying dolls and you're like
finding your love in that, like it's it's a good path.
And we had the conversation a couple episodes back, right
about the items that you can get from there and the gearing you
can get from there. And if you're ALT focused, that
will get you some pieces to fill in slots and such.
In fact, this season the Delve gear has been actually pretty
solid. In fact, two of the trinkets
from Delves have been quite good.
I mean they're no Sephorium trinket, but there is one
trinket that at a heroic level I think is even including mythic
mythic level trinkets is actually quite competitive and
the A tier trinket for enhancement shamans.
And I think for a lot of classes that like stats, there was also
a big change with a lot of trinkets recently, where the
proctic trinkets, the trinkets that did damage that the ones
that weren't just giving stats are have been buffed.
And so would have to look at those again.
But yeah, they're like, you can get the you can get the gear
from delves that'll help you push through.
You're playing a Demon Hunter. So it is that damage is always
going to be good for you in in Havoc.
But going back to the mythic plus that we started with, there
were a number of changes over the last little a bit now
multiple days, I think every two days, every other day we were
seeing like some sort of changes for a mythic plus.
So the 26th, there was one, there was one in between.
There was one that was scheduled for the reset and stuff came in
with the reset. So we are now seeing some
beautiful hot fixes the in the the theater of pain, the Xav the
unfallen crushing slam now has a proper visual so you could see
where it's lined up. Oh, I like I didn't see these
hot no, these hot fixes at 1st and I was running a dungeon and
suddenly it's like, wait, there's a line there?
What when the hell it was? It was glorious.
One thing that I thought was hilarious that I knew about this
like behavior before and I'm kind of glad they fixed it, is
that dark Fuse demolitionists, when they get when they're under
the effect of dominate mind by a priest, they're not constantly
firing off their big RPG thing that had caused wipes because
just it would pull everything in like 80 yard radius was causing
a lot of wipes. Now that's being fixed.
Priests can still mind control them, but they won't be going
absolutely insane. Boo but it's being mind
controlled. They should be going absolutely
insane. No, no, you keep them under
control and Sandy is a separate part of priests and only a
particular flavor of priests. There was also where, again in
theater of pain, the deaf speakers that do the death
winds, those will actually fire off in the location in the
direction they're facing. I have seen some poor people who
thought they were safe, but unfortunately that storm went
off in a different direction, blowing them right off the
platform and then causing a death, so I'm glad that that got
fixed as well. Is there anything in these hot
fixes that you guys are are really happy to see?
The increased minimum distance for swamp face is nice because
often times one of the roots, the protruding roots would spawn
like right underneath them. It would be really hard to see.
So now you should be able to see them.
They should be far enough distance so you'll be able to
see them fully. I mean, that's the one I'm
really excited about. I'm I'm always I'm pro hot fix
all the time. Anytime you're making dungeons
easier or fixing a pain point that would make things more
difficult than needed to be is a win more to.
Lose the hot fixes should be on Theatre of Pain to fix the pain
points. I see what you.
Detect. I mean.
I mean the priority of the sacred flame, even though it
doesn't have pain in the in the name, has had a number of pain
points. I think they did three separate
hot fixes to forge Master Damien alone because he was just like
he was a slog for some teams and as the damage went up his
abilities coming. Fast and Furious has have been
adjusted and I'm glad for that. But yeah, I, I, I really do
think that this season is really good.
I'm sorry that you're taking a little break from it, but maybe
with Season 3 you might give it another chance.
Maybe would be fun. I would.
I want to. I want a tank.
It's just the getting to that point and feeling like I not
understand what I'm doing enough to be having a good time is a is
a bigger gap to bridge than I thought it would be.
I I might suggest, well last week was when you did 4 mythic
zeros and you could get the thing, but you could just run it
with as like DPS, see how the pools are, get a feel for it.
Like as Adps, we're less of the pressure, you're less of a
linchpin. And then translate that for when
you want to tank and be like, OK, let me tank at a lower than
I'm used to. So it's a little more
comfortable. And you already know the pools
and some of the behaviors and stuff.
And that might be a good way of going into it rather than going
into it really late in the season where everybody already
kind of knows what they're doing.
And then it feels bad to like not be pulling at the crazy rate
that you might see somebody like Sean pull.
Yeah, and I think that's one reason why Season 1, I I felt
like I could dip my toes into tanking because I did, I had
done a lot of DPS already. And so I felt like I kind of
understood the routes. And then I learned very quickly
that I didn't at all. But no, I think that's a really
good idea to like start out in a thing that would feel a bit less
stressful and then see what people are doing and focus on
learning it. Yeah, that totally would work if
I didn't want to snuggle my puppy instead of doing that.
Yeah, the puppy wins. I get it.
OK.
That's the real thing. I really everything right now is
competing like I I I am doing just enough that I can
realistically remain rating and any other time I want to
dedicate to snuggling my puppy. I'm surprised you're here right
now. I kind of am too, especially
since I do have a wireless headset, so I could
hypothetically be recording this while snuggling my puppy.
Yeah, that. Would be bad for the video.
So we're, we're gonna, we're gonna nip that on the bud.
But that said, season 3 is already in the talks because
they are asking everybody what dungeons they would like to see
return for season 3. So this is a little bit
different. Usually this is a survey kind of
comes for season 4, the extra season where we go, oh, what
classic dungeons would you like to come back?
And then people vote for grid rail and I get angry at them.
But this time I, what did you say?
Like way back when they're all WS.
All we do is win, win, win. I feel like all these dungeons
are win, win, win. So you can have all of the
dungeons, including Operation Floodgate, which was introduced
this season, right? And suggest which of those
dungeons will be coming back for Season 3.
Now, They didn't say how many of them will be coming back.
I would think, I would think that it's gonna be 4:00 to 5:00.
I don't think they're gonna have mostly classic dungeons coming
back. But the top votes of this poll
will be the ones that are going to be returning.
And then these votes are aggregated.
So if there is a very close near tie, the Wow development team is
gonna make the call on that. And that's most likely to be
based on like all the criteria they normally do.
Now, generally, what dungeons are you looking to have come
back from both Season 1 and Season 2?
Sean, you had you had some strong decisions here.
What's your top dungeon? So it's this is a tough, it's a
tough question. And I think the issue is the
community also doesn't understand the question that's
being asked. People are voting for dungeons.
It seems like people are voting for dungeons that they had an
easy time clearing or in which there was a good loot table
instead of voting for the dungeons that are the best
designed. So for me, my vote.
As far as boss fights go, the top two best dungeons from the
World Within pool are easily Operation Floodgate and Dark
Flame Cleft. You cannot.
And I know Dark Flame Cleft caught a lot of heat at the
start of the season or pre season when people were
convinced that the Minecraft section was going to be doomed.
And it's not. Blizzard made it so that it
wasn't. It's still not.
It's it's it's probably my favorite dungeon this season.
And the boss fights are so incredibly well designed that
they can even be completed if you don't fully understand the
mechanics of them. I watched a Demon Hunter friend
of mine complete a + 15 and he had no idea how the boss
mechanics worked on the candle boss or on the last month.
And I was like in the call watching explaining to him as it
was happening. Like no, you're going you want
to light as many candles as you can so that you have less of the
dot anyway. So those those those one of
those two should be people's picks because they're super well
designed, they're fun, and the the boss fights are good.
If you're looking for speed, then you want to maybe vote for
the Rookery. The Rookery is by far the
fastest dungeon to complete. Also very fun, the last boss
there can be difficult if DPS don't realize that they don't
have to stand at their spots for the pillar breaks and the
pillars aren't there and they can come in for healing from
your preservation of ochre because he can't reach you way
over there. Yeah, honestly, there is no you
did say man, there's no bad answer here except maybe City of
threads. Nobody wants that so.
It's a 2% right now, so you're right, nobody wants.
It yeah it's a rough one, but a lot of people are heavily voting
for Eric Cara and the Dawn Breaker, which were both super
well received in season 1 and it's because they were easily
timed. They both had extremely
forgiving timers, but I would argue that Eric Harris is not a
super great designed dungeon and that last boss is kind of a
nightmare. I.
Hate that one. That was that OK our Cara was
genuinely in season 1, the dungeon that made me stop doing
mythic plus and it was that last boss, boss specifically.
I was done after like one night of like an hour long pull and I
was like Nope, we're finished, cancelled, it's over.
Yeah, I get it multiple times, like multiple times.
We will be running 12/13 1212 and thirteens get to the last
boss with like 14 minutes left and still not time it.
It's it's wild, wild how it was our least consistent dungeon of
that season. And this is not the dungeon's
fault, but the like the mechanic with the the blood is bugged
with it's specifically, first of all, it's horrible, but it's
also specifically bugged with Demon Hunter leaps where if you
leap to the other side of the blood, it like marks your body.
Like like the where, where the the thing goes is not where you
get stuck. So like I, I was spending so
much time trying to figure out where my blood was because I
jumped over it. But like, also, that's how the
Demon Hunter like unless I'm running by pressing W or both
mouse buttons for those of you who don't keyboard turn like
there's, there's literally no other way for me to get to where
I need to go in time. It was terrible.
That one was really, really stressful.
Yeah, and I I also think people might be voting for it because
Sack Brood was such a strong trinket, but every time they
brought dungeons backs, they've they've tuned to the trinkets to
bring them in line. So if you're and also when you
use sacred, you get this weird lump on your back.
I hated it so much. Anyway, I voted.
I voted for the Rookery because I did what I said people
shouldn't do and voted for the one that is fast and easy.
But flame. So do as I say, not as I do.
Dark Flame, Cleft, Operation Floodgate are both probably the
two best designed dungeons from The War Within prior to Second
Flame is gorgeous. It's also a lot of fun.
I think. I think that that could be a
good winner. That's third right now.
Yeah. Anyway.
I voted for cinder brew because I think it's it's cute.
I hate cinder brew meter E because I'm stuck in neck hell
or I was I I got the neck last two nights ago.
I got the neck, but it was like 30 two runs of cinder brew to
get that neck, but it is a it is AII get it If I had only had to
run it when I got the key. It's a fun dungeon.
It's pretty. It reminds me a lot of temple
the jade serpent because you can go either direction.
Obviously you're going towards IPA first because you need the
lust for him, but it's a lot of fun and it has some really fun
boss fights as well. I really like bank Busby in
there and I really also really like Goldie bear and bottom.
Both good fights. Although I will say I this is an
issue that I have every time World of Warcraft does anything
involving brewing. Although I have less of an issue
with the meadery than I do when they talk about beer, where I
don't think they, first of all, I don't think they understand
how brewing works. And second of all, I think they
think that Mead is a beer. And it's not.
It's a with anything, it's a wine, which just bothers me.
Like I, I just like, especially the I the IPA.
I'm like, I get the joke, I get the fun, but it's why?
But it wouldn't it wouldn't be an IPA.
Why? Why would there be an IPA and a
meadery? An IPA is a hoppy beer and
meadery like Mead is a honey wine.
Like what are we doing here? What is going on?
It's. An experimental element that
they made. They were experimenting, Lex.
But I and I, I get that. I get that.
And I, I just, who would put like is, are they saying that
they put hops in honey wine? Because that sounds terrible
like, which I guess is why they have a big evil.
I mean like I wouldn't say hops, he more floats.
OK, but like but but OK. But all of this is better than
and I swear I'm going to let Manny speak in a minute, but I
just, I just need to get this off my chest.
Blizzard thinks that you brew beer within the course of one
day. Like this bothered me so much
when I was reading the the not war crimes.
The other the the war crimes isn't even Pandaria.
No, it is anyway the, the the Pandaria story, the Volgen
story. And like very clearly the author
was under the impression that you could like put something
like a flavoring in a beer and that afternoon or within a few
hours, sometimes you could taste how it affect did the brew.
And I just like brewing is like at least a month long process.
Like, what are we? It is certainly even even if
we're talking to faster beers, it is not with like you will not
know what that tastes like by the end of the goddamn day.
So I'm chronically annoyed by that.
But it's OK. Minnie, what are you voting for?
I haven't made my decision yet. I think that like, I wanna see
something come back from Season 1 because I'd like to see the
difference between Season 1 and Season 2.
Like one thing I wanna point out to everybody is that anything
coming back from Season 1 is gonna be a lot different.
There's a completely different ethos that's involved with like
the way trash is done, how many interrupts you need to pull, and
that's going to change the the amount of packs that you pull
together and all and all of that.
The fact that the affixes and where they're introduced has
changed his stuff. I'd love to get like a direct
comparison of some of these dungeons, how I experienced them
in Season 1 versus how they look like with this, with this new
change in direction of how affixes interact with dungeon
mechanics. So yeah, like I think that
Floodgate has some magnificently designed bosses and it's really
fun, but I would really like to see some Season 1 things come
back and see if they're like, OK, well, you know what?
Like you can pull two of the mini bosses together when
you're, when you are doing something like the dawn breaker
or you're not going to be like utterly overwhelmed with like
interrupts when you're going through the storm vault.
Cause the storm vault had just packs with multiple casters in
every single pack. And so like, how would they
change that? Like, is it that those effects
aren't going to be as painful and as punishing or they just
going to like be less frequent? Like I just, I want to see that
as sort of a thought experiment sort of thing.
And all these dungeons are going to come back later.
So whatever I I'm going to, I'm going to give it a good look
through and see and see what it is.
But yeah, let us know what you guys think.
Obviously, bit dot LY slash fast discord like to know what our
listeners think should be the top choices, not necessarily the
entirety of the World of Warcraft population.
Now going from that over to our next story guys, they've done it
again. As much as gear score changed
the game as much as everybody in their IO score caused caused
pugging to be a bit more toxic, a bit less social, Wowhead and
their subsidiary Arcon have decided to create a new add on.
You guys want to talk about this?
Wait. Wowhead owns Arcon you.
Didn't know that I. Had no idea.
Wait, is it Wowhead or is it Warcraft logs?
Warcraft logs. Warcraft logs is ARCON.
Is there a sort of all of them are working together?
I'm not sure. Well, it's definitely Warcraft
logs and Arcon, yeah. Arcon is Warcraft logs.
That's the same company. I didn't know Wowhead was
involved. I'm going to double check, but
tell us about this add on, OK? Yeah, so it's it takes your
parses from heroic and mythic and shows it on a tool tip in
game for use when putting together pugs for the rates they
are taking Now obviously hear that immediately and everybody
knee jerk reaction is Oh my God this is terrible for the game.
Why would you do this? You're going to ruin pug life.
The sky is falling. I have a slightly less doomer
take on it than that because this information is already out
there. It already exists.
Anybody who cared about it when building their PUD groups could
already look it up and see it. They are making steps so to try
to try and balance that perception.
So it is your average par score among all of your kills in
heroic and mythic, but it's only after you've hit certain
thresholds. You have to have 20 heroic boss
kills before it shows any scores to allow you to build up sort of
a base so you're not being judged off of 1 bad prog parse.
And 20 boss clears is just about 3 clears of the Raiders. 8
bosses in the raid. So 8 * 3 is what, 18 maths hard?
Nope, 24. So yeah, just about 3 clears of
the raid and two and a half clears.
And for Mythic, because mythic kills are a lot harder to come
by and not ever experience it, it's only 5 kills.
So you start to see parses at 5 kills.
If you've killed the boss on mythic but you haven't gotten 5
kills, I'll show you a heroic parse and say it's heroic.
You can opt out of this. However, opting out means you
hide your parses on Warcraft logs.
And if we're being honest, if somebody's opted out, it's going
to be the same as if your score was low.
So opting out won't really increase your chances of getting
into a group of anybody who was using this to determine their
group anyway. But they they are.
And it also hides your purses on Warcraft logs so you're the only
one who sees them. They are aware that people want
to be able to opt out of the add on but still be available on
Warcraft logs. I believe they said they were
working on that. I know people are really upset
about this. I don't pug a ton.
I do pug a little bit of the raid on alts.
I don't personally think this is going to have the impact that
Twitter or the overarching Warcraft community thinks it's
going to have. I think anybody who truly cared
that much about parses when building pug groups for heroic
was already looking them up or using another metric to to judge
you on, and I just don't think it's going to have the impact
that people think it is. It you.
It doesn't even exist for normal pugs.
So like it doesn't show normal prices at all.
So you shouldn't have any issue if you're like a more casual
player. I don't know.
I I know people are upset, so go ahead Lex.
Yeah, so I was going to say, I guess the one thing that I would
push really question. So I, I, we don't really pug at
all. I I, I would mean I'm scared of
doing random mythic classes. I'm certainly not going to put
myself at the mercy of a a random pugged raid.
And my team as a general rule, does not mess with pugging just
because there, there are exceptions.
But like usually if we're at a point where we need to pug, we
just don't because we just, we, we are very protective of the
community and the vibes and the energy we have.
And we would hate for that to feel like to, to have somebody
invited in who ruins that for a night.
So this doesn't really affect me.
The one I guess thing that I would just say though, is, yeah,
you can go look at logs. You can search people for logs.
But I guess it, for me, it's like I question that people do.
And I I understand like, yeah, like all this information is
publicly available, but surely there's a difference.
Sorry, not that that felt when I the minute that started coming
out of my mouth, I was like, this feels aggressive for
something that I don't actually fight about, that I don't know
anything about. I guess I feel like I would
never in my life when I was making pug groups for M plus
before, I would never have gone to radar IO and search people's
names while I have like 50 different applicants coming in
every second, right? But if they're going to give me
a score number, I don't really have a ton else to go on.
It's like I'm, you know, it's right there in my face, right?
And so I guess I, my thinking is like, yeah, but like who
actually does go look at Warcraft logs?
And on the other hand, if it's right there on your face, like,
are you going to ignore their persons and be like, no, I'm
going to go with this other person who I also have zero
additional information about but the number.
And and maybe that's OK, right? Maybe good people should get
into groups more. Maybe like that's not inherently
unfair. I didn't change things, right?
I don't. Yeah, I I see, I see your point.
It is I I definitely understand that.
Like, I could go. This will this will make people
who wouldn't take the effort to go look up a score be able to
go, oh, well, I'm going to take this person instead of that
person, even though they've both killed the same number of
bosses. This person has a better score
and they're better at it. Could you make the argument that
it will then make pug groups naturally form that are among
equal skill level instead of having a vast skill?
Maybe it'll make it. Here we go, here's a here's a
hope PM take that I'm sure will go really well.
Maybe this will make pug groups less toxic because instead of
having extremely skilled players mixed with less skilled players,
and then those players getting Madden, the less skilled players
make mistakes. The extremely skilled players
will only play with other extremely skilled players, and
the players that fall the next tier down will all group
together because they'll be able to see their gear scores and so
instead of being toxic with each other, they'll be understanding
because they're all at the same level.
We'll actually say to to add to that hope.
Maybe I shouldn't admit this, but when I do pug mythic plus I
usually will not take people with top scores because they
scare me and I don't want them to get mad at me.
Oh my God, I'm right. Let's just confirm I'm right,
Andy. What do you think?
Do you think this will make the pug scene less toxic?
No. What?
Like Lex is right, like it's in front of you.
So you'll go with the person with the highest score.
That will change people's behaviors.
This is raid, So what will people do?
They'll pad their scores to go for to go for the highest score
instead of doing mechanics. Now you'll get a bunch of people
who are concerned about doing the damage instead of mechanic.
Raids these days require people do to do mechanics.
There's going to be this entire thing of like come on guys, give
me the Pi as bad as it was before when like we were in farm
mode and it's like, oh man, give me all the PIS.
Let's do this. I'm hoping because it is
Warcraft logs that if you get too many PIS, it just won't show
up on the add on that they will include that that filter into
this because they already have a thing where you can go.
Hey, I don't need this thing with the PIS on this many people
giving me the buffs from this many drag theares, whatever,
right? I happen to be the guy who never
got picked to go on the the balls.
And so I just got to do A0A 0E. I did a bunch of superfluous
cleave damage on X&Y fight. So I've got the parse, but like
my team didn't care. So now this allows me to pug.
Why are you even in pugs if your team's already doing this,
Claire? I don't know, but like there's
just parses were already susceptible to abuse.
Making it so that your invitation now now gets
reflected by your parse and more people are going to be looking
at your parse is just inviting the behavior that I just don't
want and I do think. Will it incentivize people to
learn the fights and play better to get better scores?
I'm getting better. Hold on.
I just, I need to be super clear for both my Co hosts and
everybody who's listening right now screaming at their their
stereos. I obviously know what's going to
happen when this add on comes out, but we can't all just sit
here and be like this add on's garbage.
Maybe it'll be OK. Let's be today.
But everybody knows that you can pad damage in so many fights in
this raid. They do actually negate a lot of
the ad damage. It doesn't count for purses.
Sure, right. Like that, that helps if I am a
funnel if I'm a funnel character does naturally it like it helps
to offset some of it right? If I decide to tunnel on the
boss so I can get 100% up time and not turn and kill the kill
the ads in one in one armed bandit.
Holy crap, I I need those parses to be like immediately removed.
If you are not doing like 1520% of your damage on those ads,
just your parse is great immediately.
And like, do I want to put that on Warcraft logs that you need
to police your logs because now you're affecting people's
ability to even play the game. Their choice to make it right,
the but like, I just know bad behavior is going to rule the
day because people aren't going to look deeper in the logs.
And I think that the people who did look deep in the logs, that
took the time to go to the logs and say, oh, this is a problem.
Let me not look at their parts, but actually go and see, hey,
did they actually do this right? That takes away from the people
who were going just to Warcraft logs, right?
And now there's a bigger portion who will lazily look at the
orange parse and be like, yeah, even though that orange parse
might be a complete red herring. So I have a question that I'm
trying to answer as we speak because as much as I I totally
agree with everything you're saying, Manny and I like, I
can't make a good argument for why this shouldn't exist, but I
think that it shouldn't, right? I think that I think that bad
players should be allowed to have fun.
And that's not a good enough reason for us not to have ways
to know if players are bad. But it's for me, in my heart and
soul it is. But I kind of have I'm I'm
curious how much hugging raid actually happens, right?
So I just want to know, Oh my God, my computer needs to load
faster because I want to know at 8:17 PM EST on a Tuesday how
many heroic pug groups there are right now.
And maybe it'll be a lot, and I'll be about to.
Look, depends on the season, depends on like where you are in
the season, depends on the day, right?
But like, yeah, it could be a lot earlier.
And then of course trail off. Like it depends on on a lot of
things there. But like also I could see a
fight where it's like I go in there and I die immediately.
And now Lex is stressed out of her and out of her mind.
She's normally with with like people who are competent
healers, right? And because she's down a healer
from like the get go because I just ran myself into the
garbage. Her log is like huge, right,
Because she's doing way more healing or some idiot is like
running into like every everything and you're keeping me
alive. And so like, hey, your your law
gets utterly inflated. But that devalues all the other
logs from teams that work together.
And so the the damage wasn't that much like that also would
affects logs if you are burning through the boss super fast and
nobody takes any damage or you have a longer fight and people
take a lot of damage, that also effects healer logs, not even
including DPS logs. Oh.
I, I'm done heel leading and I will say until the day I die,
the healer parses are not. So I, I was thinking about this
only as ADPS parse, right? I think DPS parses, there's a
lot of So first of all, I'm going to quickly interrupt
myself and say there, there were a lot of pugs.
So I was completely, I was a liar.
A ton of people are pugging and it's absolutely going to have an
effect on the the game as well. So you make an add on if there
was no word audience for it so it makes sense.
True, Absolutely. Yeah, in retrospect I'm being
silly DPS person. As somebody who's played healer
and DPS and who was raid LED primarily healing but like to
some degree DPS ING, I DPS parts are are fairly meaningful right?
Because the thing about DPS is that you can in like from when
the start the fight starts to when the fight ends, you can
engage in your action. And if everyone is like burning
that like against the the boss, it will simply end sooner,
right? There's no cap to the amount of
damage you can do other than the boss dying.
So DPS parts I think are very meaningful.
Healing parses I will always say are incredibly complicated
because there is a hard cap to the amount of HP like HPS that
can go out. And that hard cap is your team's
damage. Just like you're saying Manny
right? So a team that takes a lot of
damage does like like healers can literally put out more heals
per second. If your team, if nobody is is
getting in a single mechanic in your in in in a boss fight, your
healers parses inherently will be lower, right?
Because, but like they, they, they simply cannot put out as
many heels per second. There's not there's nothing else
to heal. They healed it all.
They're up to 100. We had a like one reason that I
started learning how to do some DPS on my priest is because on
my team we have a few like absolute rock star healers.
And to be fair, first of all, if anyone on my team is listening,
you're old rock stars. I love you all.
I'm so proud of you all. You're incredible and I love
you. But we had some people who were
burning right, like hitting like parses in the 90s frequently.
And what that meant is that my little, you know, mid level
healer, but was getting grey parses, not because my skill
significantly dropped, but because the amount of the damage
that existed in the raid was going down, right.
The really incredible healers meant that I literally did not
have heals to heal. They, they, they were gone.
They were, the damage is 0. It's OK.
Like I, I had to learn to do something else.
So yes, I think with in, in, in terms of DPSI think I, I do hear
you. I think that like the risk,
especially of people who primarily pug just refusing to
do mechanics because they want to maximize their DPSI think
that's a a big danger. But I do actually really agree.
I think the people who don't understand healing and don't
understand healing parses or just the fact that you have a
limited amount of information and now you have a number and
it's hard not to follow the number.
Even if you tell yourself that you're too, like you understand
the nuance behind the number. I think that that would be
really damaging to healing pugs. Absolutely.
And the problem is that not everybody who is looking at that
add on with that number is going to understand many of these
little intricacies. And I think that the people who
had taken the time to go, I'm gonna go to their logs, there is
a small subsection of players who would do that.
And of those players, there was a meaningful subsection of that
subsection that would actually take the time and look at your
parts and be like, this guy better not be fluffing the logs
or blah, blah, blah. And would actually know that
because if you're on Warcraft logs at that level, I think
you're there is a better chance that you are going to be looking
at these filtered information than somebody who's grabbing it
from an add on. They're not going to then take
the time to look for a filtered information because I don't
believe this add on even provides that option.
And if it doesn't, then you're already going to logs and and
therefore, what is this serving a newer audience that may not
use it in the proper way? But I do want to say before we
go any further, Arcon, they are not part of Wowhead.
But what what I'm remembering is that they used to be, you know,
Warcraft logs, FF logs, ESO logs, they all went under the
same name and that's when they and they merged together under
the Archon name. So the the way the add on is
functioning now, if you're a Warcraft Logs Patreon
subscriber, you are a premium member.
It might not be Patreon anymore. You you get to see the full
breakdown. Like you see the the Vexy score,
you see the Carlton O'Connor score for each player, but if
you're not a subscriber, you just see their average score for
the raid. So you don't get the individual
boss breakdown. I do have a question though.
This is for the listeners. I want you guys to and you too
as well, although I think I know what you guys are going to say.
But for the listeners, I want you to be really, truly honest
with yourself. If you are putting together a
pug with the intent of clearing the raid, are you not just a
little bit grateful that now you have some measure of the skill
of the people you're inviting instead of the complete random
chance from before? Yeah, I think that the one thing
that I do want to say is I don't have an issue with Arcon for
this. I think there was never a world
where this wasn't going to come out like eventually there was
going to be a way to look at and like I don't like it.
But again, most of the reason that I don't like this and I
don't like IO score and I don't like like it's just because I
think that bad people should be able to play the game too.
And that's not a good argument. And I under like as a as a raid
leader, obviously I would like good people when I'm pugging.
I just as a it's a bad, I am protective of bad players.
And that's a terrible argument to not have a feature.
And I get that, especially in a in a MMO.
So like objectively that is not a feasible argument to keep
things like this from coming along.
But yeah, yeah, it's like, I can argue about how it's harmful to
the community as a whole, but you, yeah, people are going to
want information when they're making pugs.
And especially, you know, I would also love if we could have
a nice score, although I immediately understand why that
would be complicated. But alas, they don't.
We haven't devolved into social. Would we call it?
Would we call it Nico or Kindo? I don't.
I know. What's your Kindo score, Lex?
You're a 99, by the way, and Kindo Manny's a solid.
Manny's a solid 96 1/2. No, Manny, he's so much nicer
than. Me Manny is giving me a look
right now every time. I suggest that this add on might
be OK I think. They're trying social scores
over in China. I don't think that's going too
well. Going to be clear, not not a
fan, not I I don't I I understand why a kind score
would actually be really problematic and would probably
lead to more toxicity. Oh no, I don't.
I think in the video game it works out wonderful.
I think that you maintain a certain average and you for your
kind score and that allows you a bunch of extra tenders and
suddenly everybody's sucking my ass.
Anyways, we will have to push through this raid and I'm glad
that. This, yeah.
Manny, what's the question? Again, if if if you're a raid
lead pugging people, are you not a little grateful that this
exists? So I'm part of the dungeon Dojo.
I actively look for people who want to learn, not people who
are already having learned the dungeon or the raid.
Like I would rather go do a mythic 0 and struggle through
with somebody so that they learn it, then get caked walked
through a 12 or get carried through a 15.
I've never done a 15. I am just starting to time 10s.
I don't care to like run and get like 10 done in like 18 minutes
flat and get my portal and be like, yeah, like I know people
want the easiest path forward. That's why this this exists.
It's like, oh, now I don't have to to type a, a name into
Warcraft logs. It can just be thrown right in
front of me. But I know what the cost of that
is. I know what raid Finder did in
terms of community. I know what LFG did in terms of
community. I understand that there's a very
real cost for this, even if the convenience factor makes the
people say like, yeah, I'll take the the offshoot used to be that
like I would have terrible dungeons back in the Barrens
coming from the crossroads, getting every everybody together
so we could, we could walk uphill both ways to go get
through that dungeon, right. But I love that.
I love to like finding friends and stuff and and like one
person going to me and be like, dude, why are you wearing that?
I'm like, because it matches. It's like it's all graze.
The stats suck. Oh, right.
I like I love that introduction. I loved when Warcraft was more
of a social game. And I get that people want to
find a way to not even have to like, acknowledge the existence
of people and look at a number, but it's going to suffer.
Right. And like, yeah, maybe you'll get
the loot that much faster because you got EP Mcsween up on
your raid. I've done a dungeon with him,
he's actually pretty good at mechanics.
He's a blowhard, we don't need him.
But you lose something in it, right?
That's it. That's my answer to it.
OK, that's a good answer. I like that.
But last thing I want to talk about is, yeah, we are four
weeks in, I completed my rank 20 of Undermine Rep, but we are now
just getting to level. I think it's six in the raid
cash. I'm sure some people have been
doing full Claire's and may have gone further than me.
Did I full Claire weak one? I can't recall.
Anyways, yeah, there's a we are now one week away from getting
6% damage amp, but this week we got what I think is the best
thing ever, which is the cartel jumper cables.
Have you guys jumped into the raid and used this?
I haven't used it yet, but we did talk about it last night as
we death skipped past all of the ridiculous amounts of trash to
one armed bandit. But we had a that.
Skip is glorious. Yeah, it's insane.
I there's so much trash in this raid.
It is. I'm I'm enjoying the trash,
though. I like other than Oh my God, the
ones that like run me over the road.
I just other than them. I'm OK with it because we hunt
down like the rares because you get extra Rep from them.
Yeah, the boes of being kind of nice and lucrative.
So I'm not tired of the trash. Do you feel like the season has
just like ended so quickly? Well, no, we we.
For me, it ends when we get CE. So it hasn't we're we're Sean
and. Mandy and I have AOT 3 already.
I'm Sean and Mandy, and I feel like we've reached the end of
the season already. I do feel like I do feel like
the season is moving at a faster pace than last season, but it's
because they made Mythic Plus so easy and that's not a complaint.
Faster if you're listening. I love it.
But the plus should be easy. I want to log in.
I'm the guy man to talk to, but I want to log in.
I want to do my a 10s. I wanted to take 18 minutes and
then I want to go bow my dad snuggle.
Your puppy. Yeah, so I can be.
I'm going to go sluggle my puppy.
It does feel like the season has gone by fast.
I feel. I actually felt this a lot last
season 2 and I felt that every season since Sepulchre and maybe
it's just because I'm getting older and that's how time works,
but I feel. Like been a shift in
dragonflight so sepulchre sounds like the right time that it.
Happened yeah it feels like every season is getting just
shorter and shorter like we're going to have 11 point 1.5 in 26
days so that's crazy to me did. They do the official
announcement. They didn't, but it's everybody
on the planet. Everybody's I know, everybody's
been guessing at it. Yeah, I don't it's like the
least the worst kept secret. Once Tower Lee or Max says it,
you can lock it in because for some reason Blizzard just keeps
telling them stuff. Then they just keep telling us.
Yeah, so it's it does feel like it's going fast.
Now what? You have to start pulling the
trash in that rate. Oh my God, there's a lot of
trash in that rate. I am also I'm glad that you're
having fun with it, Manny. We at I might have complained
about this on this podcast already.
I'm trying to remember why I remember talking about this
verbally. But we at Timbermod Tavern are
traumatized by the trash because we always mostly me, but we do
have a tendency to like have death pulls.
We're like, we're like we have to call people back to escort
the fools, namely me, nobody else.
Everyone else is sorry, the fool.
The one fool is me. Nobody else has ever had a had a
trash pull. Don't worry, don't think about
it. But we have like like escort
people to the next boss because we can't get through without
pulling trash. So I'm traumatized by this.
This tears trash. We've had that too, especially
once you're you're done with bunk junker and it's like, oh
wait, we can't go directly to the next boss.
You have to go through six month junker.
Cuz we came in one way and then out the other.
Which meant that like if you try and make a direct bull, you're
gonna bring everybody to us. And yeah, there was like a
couple of times where it's like, OK, I'm gonna die in front of
the boss so that you guys don't get into combat and then you can
res me. So it's not just you.
You're not the only fool. I'm a fool too, OK?
I can't figure out raid maps. I don't know what's wrong with
my brain that makes it so I can never get my bearings in a raid.
But the number of times this has been happening since the
Denathrius raid where I just like people like everyone else
is going and it's a very normal direction and there should be no
way for me to get lost. And I'm over in like God damn
Narnia trying to figure out how to get back into World of
Warcraft. Like I cannot handle it.
I mean Narnia was the 5th covenant so I get it.
I I genuinely think that the raids because you can go from
like different boss to different boss.
It's not a straight line like it used to be.
Nobody got lost in like Amir Dressil.
It was like, go right, go left, go straight, we're good.
This is a full on city map that they have converted into a raid.
And yes, you can go down the wrong St., end up down the wrong
alley, and then suddenly it's like, give me your wings, Demon
Hunter, and you're gonna have to start from the get go again.
Listen, just give me Bo ES for it, give me a BOE chance for it,
make it so that I get to say in my Guild child like ha ha.
Sorry guys, I just want us to get a chance for more Bo ES.
Like you can that's what they're the mini bosses are some.
People are definitely the mini bosses do it, but I want the
regular trash to do it so I don't feel like a freaking idiot
when I pull the regular trash. Can regular trash drop it?
I think it's no, it's just the yeah, just the mini bosses.
OK, Yeah, sorry, sorry, Lex. I will say though, earlier we
did get that silver card, so when you're going back to the
Glaggio, you can just use that and teleport right back.
That might be a good way. We use that a lot.
OK, my team only started using it this week.
A silver card from Rick Reverb. So then I can go to six bunk
junker with less distance and then I just kill myself after
Sprocket monger and I think because I have to do the one
abandoned trash. So you, you've been, you've been
maxed, it is what you're saying. Yeah.
And then we. Just like I don't even want to
walk because you're not going to get on the fast mount too,
right? You're on.
Slow down. No, yeah, I don't use the car.
I don't hate the car anymore. I don't remember if I gave that
update. I did shipping and handling and
made me not hate the car. And I actually kind of enjoy
shipping and handling when it gives me a little arrow and says
hey, go here and do a thing. But I don't use it on side of
that. I'm really, in all honesty, I'm
only in the Undermine to go from the teleporter to the raid.
And then I heard back, that's it.
Sometimes I go and do the delve that's there.
I don't do I, I do nothing else in Undermine but.
But yeah, I, I am, I am of the opinion that the season's gone
by incredibly fast, so I am looking forward to 11 point 1.5.
So let's see what happens. We're going to get that pretty
soon and we should try and talk about that next episode,
assuming there's no big news. But until next time guys, may
all your hits be crits.