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At the very least, if we're 
going to say we have given solo 

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players end game content, that 
end game content cannot be at 

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the level that multi like group 
players begin, You know what I'm

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saying? 
It's not that's not end game 

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content, that's mid game content
like that's beginning of the 

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game content. 
Victory for the Forsaken. 

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For Lauderon. 
For the Karen Tour for Pandaria.

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For calendar. 
To the burning region for 

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Gilnaeus or has not died, for 
the Lich King, for the Sindori, 

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for the Alliance, for the Horde,
for Azeroth. 

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Hello and welcome back to 
another episode of For Azeroth. 

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I am one of your hosts, the true
villain, Manny, or just Manny. 

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And I am joined by Lex. 
Lex, how are you doing? 

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Good, Manny, I'm popping right 
along. 

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We got to Gaslo on normal, my 
raid team did last week, which 

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is very exciting, very fun. 
And then Gaslo is more 

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complicated. 
So we did the entire raid normal

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blind and then Gaslo. 
A little RAID normal. 

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Yeah, we didn't do like enforced
blindness, which is what we 

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like. 
Historically when we've done 

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blind bosses, it's been like, 
you cannot tell us anything you 

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saw in Race to World First. 
You cannot do any. 

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Like you can't look at anything 
that's not we're going to be 

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fully blind. 
Because we weren't really 

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expecting to do normal blind. 
And it was more of like on the 

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1st pull of the first boss, we 
were like, let's just go for it,

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let's just see what happens. 
And then we kind of continued 

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zooming through and just 
realized we were having a good 

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time. 
We didn't do enforced blindness.

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So somebody could be like, oh, I
think I remember Liquid doing 

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XYZ Strat. 
So we did have some guidance 

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there, but it was really fun. 
And we think that's probably 

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going to be our move in the 
future is doing normal blind and

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then watching videos and getting
prepped before heroic. 

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And to be fair, my team also 
does prepping a little bit 

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differently. 
So we kind of realized that 

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nobody was actually prepping 
before bosses. 

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So what we do know, well we were
like, let's just lean into it. 

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So now before bosses, we just 
take a like 5 minute break and 

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everyone watches a video. 
And then we all know we watched 

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the same video. 
Everyone watched a video because

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we gave them a time to do it. 
And then we come back and we 

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talked about it and it has 
worked so much better. 

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Like when we were telling people
like, Yep, make sure you study, 

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do the strats, watch the videos,
use the videos we expect you to 

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watch. 
We would spend so much time 

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explaining Strat and nobody 
would get it and it would just 

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like nobody was doing the work 
or at least half the team wasn't

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doing the work. 
And once we kind of stopped 

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trying to fight that and trying 
to make it a big deal, like you 

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guys didn't watch the videos, 
you didn't prep, you clearly 

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don't know what's going on. 
And instead just kind of leaned 

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into it and allowed the, you 
know, learning the bosses to 

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happen during raid time. 
We started moving so much faster

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and people were having more fun.
OK, I mean that there's a 

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question about like what do you 
do when people aren't reading 

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the strats? 
Like it's, it's something that 

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comes up more in the the more 
casual teams, people who will 

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like literally raid log period, 
no prep whatsoever when going 

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way back in time to like for 
Azeroth, maybe in and around the

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100th episode, one thing that we
did in our raid group was that 

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we would explain the strats, but
the strats were based on, you 

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know what these are. 
So we wouldn't explain what it 

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did. 
We just explained what we would 

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do with it. 
And then we would pull and there

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would be no explaining what does
what does that do? 

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It was just a OK, so tanks, 
tanks stack on the tanks for the

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the blast. 
Make sure you taunt afterwards. 

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We're going to drop the the 
bombs off to here. 

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Three people, three people in 
each of the things only only 

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Joss is going to take it to the 
consoles and and then it's like,

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OK, if you know the fight for 
for Galliwicks, that makes 

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sense. 
If you don't, you're utterly 

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lost and we are not going to 
explain explain it to you. 

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And then with the enforcement, 
it would be for like, let's say 

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gearing and enchanting and 
stuff. 

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We'd be like, OK, make gearing 
enchant you. 

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You can do it during break. 
Otherwise, just do it after the 

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raid. 
We're not stopping in between 

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the poles and we never had to 
like drop somebody, but there 

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would be times where we'd be 
like, they'd be like, hey, 

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where's the invite? 
Like, oh, I thought you were 

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taking the time to jam an 
enchant because you didn't do 

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that last time, right? 
And it'd be like notice. 

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And then it's like, hey, like, 
don't make me inspect you before

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you join again. 
And, and I guess we were just 

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more hard line with that. 
But like once we did that, we 

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just started pulling. 
Like it was just like everybody 

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knew to show up before before 
and have that, that sort of 

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stuff. 
And everybody's went through. 

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And I think there's friction in 
both ways. 

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If you push that, the people who
are like, I just genuinely don't

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have the time for that or I 
generally don't want to do that 

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sort of stuff, They're going to 
drop off. 

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If you go my way. 
If you go your way, I can see 

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the frustration of the people 
who are like, I want to do the 

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homework. 
I want to get all this stuff 

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ready. 
Getting annoyed when it's like I

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have to sit there and watch a 
video that I've already watched 

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like two or three times or I've 
seen like how many different 

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strategies. 
And that's when I think the 

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worst thing I've that I hate in 
raids is when the non raid lead 

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knows better and starts like 
chiming in and oh, oh, that's 

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what I that's the stuff I want 
to shut down real quick. 

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00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:05,640
It's like you're not the raid 
lead. 

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If you've got any kind of advice
or suggestions, feel free to 

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propose those when we ask for it
or at the end of the night. 

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But like, yeah, it's very 
strange. 

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It depends on where where things
are going. 

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But your team is one night a 
week you guys go through and and

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raid. 
So it's already very much geared

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to like, like, hey, we're just 
here to have fun and socialize 

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and get through this content as 
we get through it, right? 

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And it's Week 2 as well. 
Yeah, we, we heavily prioritize 

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community. 
The point of our raid is that we

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are there to I mean, the point 
of the raid is to raid 

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obviously, and nobody has fun. 
If no like if we make no 

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progress, right, we still want 
to continue moving forward, but 

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we are there because we want to 
play together as a community and

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we want to have fun together. 
I want to say probably like over

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half of the raid team has is 
have kids of some kind. 

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We all the the the point of 
Timbermont Tavern is that we are

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all busy adults who want to play
video games together and we want

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to balance both the fact that 
like respecting the time that 

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people put in so that Ray 
doesn't feel like a huge 

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terrible slog to the people who 
worked really hard and also 

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respecting the fact that we are 
adults in this is a video game, 

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which to be fair, is not 
remotely disrespectful. 

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Like I, I don't mean that 
snarkily towards the people who 

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are like, yeah, this is a video 
game that I work really hard in 

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and that I care deeply about and
I do a ton of Labor to make it 

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so that I'm the successful and 
the joy of the game is that we 

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are driving. 
But you know, it's, it's a lot 

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for the people who are like, Oh 
yeah, like I really can't do 

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significantly more than raid 
logging because I have kids and 

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like I, we have single parents 
in the raid and we have people 

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like, with dealing with really 
big life stuff. 

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And we have, we have people just
with like, you know, reasons 

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that they just don't want to do 
any more than raid log. 

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Most of us early in the season 
especially, we do push a lot 

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more gearing and things like 
that. 

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But you things happen and and 
life happens and and do we do I 

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we do talk about that conflict a
lot because we do also have some

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really high level raters in the 
team. 

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And we want to make sure that 
they don't get bored and that 

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they aren't feeling disrespected
and they aren't feeling like the

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time they're putting into M Plus
and rating on their own and, you

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know, prepping and doing 
everything feels forgotten. 

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But what I think we've mostly 
found at this point is that the 

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people there are certainly some 
people who have left the team 

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because they were like, listen, 
I just want to keep pushing. 

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And that's fair, right? 
We're not for everyone. 

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We're a, you know, a small team.
We're there for, like, the 

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people who want to be there 
should be there. 

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The people who aren't there, 
like, we love to have you in the

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community however we can. 
But the people who stay with the

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team are there because they 
genuinely want to be with the 

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team and they're OK taking a few
extra days and they're OK, you 

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know, pushing heroic on their 
own time if they would like to 

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push. 
And then playing with us during,

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you know, during the the time 
that we do play. 

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Because the point to them is 
also that they want to come and 

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hang out with the group and they
want to have fun with us and 

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they would rather move slowly 
with Timbermont Tavern then move

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quickly with another Guild. 
And we've also had some people 

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leave and come back, which we 
like. 

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We love to see it when they come
back. 

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And we also those of you who 
don't leave and who leave and 

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leave, we also love and are 
cheering you guys on. 

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Like you guys are doing 
incredible things. 

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And we're so proud of you and 
we're so impressed with 

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everything that everything that 
comes out of the team and in a 

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million different ways. 
So we love our team and we also 

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love our community as a whole. 
And I think that it's important 

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that people are able to play the
game. 

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They want to play the game. 
OK, So then overall, how are you

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liking the Undermine patch so 
far? 

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You've had, we're now in our 
third, sorry, third week of the 

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patch, second week of raiding, 
right? 

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What are, what's your overall 
impressions thus far? 

181
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How's it landed versus like I 
guess your first impressions? 

182
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I love the raid, I'm having a 
ton of fun. 

183
00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,720
I think it's cute, I think it's 
exciting. 

184
00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:08,080
I think all of the characters 
are unique while also cohesive. 

185
00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,120
I think the mechanics are all 
reasonable. 

186
00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,720
There's no boss that I feel like
is this is just such a like 

187
00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,280
terrible slog and it's just so 
tough. 

188
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But also I don't feel like any 
of the bosses are just like face

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00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,720
roll ignore everything, who 
cares? 

190
00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,000
Like everything. 
I think at least on I mean 

191
00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,400
normal is tuned pretty well and 
makes sense and it's reasonable 

192
00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:32,400
and fair. 
I have been having a, I have 

193
00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:36,560
kind of opposite issues right 
now with Mythic like M Plus and 

194
00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:41,440
with Delves where I feel like 
delves are under tuned to the 

195
00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,520
point when, and I've complained 
about this on this podcast 

196
00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,360
before, that I feel like I 
finished what I like. 

197
00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,120
I finished delves really early 
and that was a little bit 

198
00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:53,240
frustrating for me. 
M Plus, I've been having a lot 

199
00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,480
of trouble so far and part of 
that because I'm a new tank, 

200
00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:58,400
part of that because it's early 
in the season so nobody really 

201
00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,480
noticed the mechanics. 
Part of that is because I 

202
00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,280
started on operation Floodgate, 
which if you haven't started 

203
00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,680
Mythic and plus yet, don't start
on operation floodgate. 

204
00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,040
It's hard. 
That took us, I think close to 

205
00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,160
two hours. 
It was a really, really rough 

206
00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:16,360
like it was a like the type of 
mythic where I logged off and I 

207
00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,480
was like, am I not capable of 
tanking? 

208
00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,520
Like is this something I should 
just never try again? 

209
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:27,440
Like I am I just bad. 
So so far I haven't really like 

210
00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:29,160
I. 
I've had fun in M plus because 

211
00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:33,760
I've been with my friends, but 
realistically if I didn't have 

212
00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,520
to do any M Plus this season I 
probably wouldn't be heartfrog 

213
00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:41,640
man. 
The story hasn't necessarily 

214
00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,640
hooked me on a deep level. 
I actually haven't even finished

215
00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,760
the main storyline. 
Well, then Nope, Nope. 

216
00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,040
I, I refuse. 
Like, OK, yeah. 

217
00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:51,920
That's Vali. 
That's super. 

218
00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:53,000
Valiant. 
I think that. 

219
00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:59,200
I think that it's fine to say 
that in the initial part you 

220
00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:03,640
don't feel incredibly hooked, 
but how far are you into it 

221
00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,680
though? 
I got to the Kaja mines, the 

222
00:12:06,680 --> 00:12:10,360
Kaja coast. 
OK, so you're only part way. 

223
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,280
So has Galliwick's needed 
convincing? 

224
00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,640
Like where it's like there's a 
pause where it's like, I got to 

225
00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,600
convince Gaslow. 
Sorry Gaslow, I got to convince.

226
00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,360
OK, so you're part way through 
like the first week stuff. 

227
00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,680
Yeah, right. 
Yeah, I think that it's 

228
00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,360
basically broken into three 
parts, so not going into 

229
00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,520
spoilers. 
There is Part 1 where it's like,

230
00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:40,000
what the Hell's going on? 
How did Galliwick's wrestle 

231
00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:44,320
everything and take over? 
And then the second part is 

232
00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,920
like, OK, let's fight back, 
right? 

233
00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,920
That leads into the raid, and 
then there's an epilogue after 

234
00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,600
the raid. 
I think that the main emotional 

235
00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,880
thrust is in Part 2. 
OK, right. 

236
00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,040
And then yeah. 
And then the epilogue is more 

237
00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:06,640
funny stuff, but also like a 
good epilogue with one part 

238
00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,080
that's really tear jerking and 
everybody knows when I that's 

239
00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:11,680
played it what I'm talking 
about. 

240
00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:17,520
So like I would say it, it's 
definitely something to you 

241
00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,000
should continue through. 
And if you got some time to play

242
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,480
good, be like, OK, I'm going to 
hammer down that story. 

243
00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,800
Absolutely. 
I think I will say not to bring 

244
00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:29,280
up a hot topic on the friends or
other podcast. 

245
00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:31,640
I do think part of it is that we
didn't have a heroic week. 

246
00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,800
And so doing the story right 
now, every time I log in and I 

247
00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,160
try to go through the story, 
there's a part voice in the back

248
00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:38,640
of my head. 
It's like usually getting dove 

249
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:40,320
keys. 
You should be doing it and plus 

250
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:41,880
you should be doing this, you 
should be doing that, you should

251
00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:43,040
be gearing. 
Why aren't you gearing right 

252
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:43,840
now? 
You're doing the story and 

253
00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:45,600
that's a waste of time and it's 
taking you've been playing for 

254
00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,640
an hour and you haven't done 
anything but the story. 

255
00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:49,280
You could be, and this is 
probably the only hour you're 

256
00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:50,880
playing today and you're not 
gearing at all. 

257
00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:52,280
You're not gearing at all before
bed. 

258
00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:53,160
You're just going to do the 
story. 

259
00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:57,480
And I think if we had that 
protected time where it felt 

260
00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:59,960
more like this is the time that 
I can really play through the 

261
00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:02,080
story. 
I mean, to be fair, might not be

262
00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,080
the point that, you know, if I 
wanted to play through the 

263
00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:05,760
story, I'd set aside the time. 
I'm not. 

264
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:07,880
I think there's reasons that we 
wouldn't have a heroic week. 

265
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:09,960
But I think if we did have a 
heroic week, I would have played

266
00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,320
through the story. 
I I, I do want to say to the 

267
00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:17,480
listeners that points Lex is 
reacting to my facial 

268
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:22,080
expressions. 
So I, I will my face said 

269
00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,880
actually Lex and so she reacted 
to it. 

270
00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:29,800
So I will say actually, Alex, 
heroic rate doesn't affect you 

271
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:34,480
or I because heroic Greek only 
stops mythic raid from being a 

272
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,920
factor. 
And because you haven't been 

273
00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:42,000
doing much mythic plus, the 
effect on mythic plus is also is

274
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,000
also addressed. 
So like. 

275
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:47,520
When when we say heroic week, 
are we not talking about a week 

276
00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:49,520
where you can only do heroic 
dungeons? 

277
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:54,520
No heroic rate. 
It's normal raid, heroic raid 

278
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,320
Mythic is locked out. 
Mythic plus will usually have 

279
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,280
you like you get your keys and 
stuff, but there's a cap on end 

280
00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:06,480
of dungeon rewards. 
And so like for all intents and 

281
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,400
purposes, well, it's just a part
of the game that doesn't affect 

282
00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,480
you. 
You're not jumping into mythic 

283
00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:15,520
rating and so. 
What I want is I want what 

284
00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:19,240
happened with the new expansion.
I want there to be like a week 

285
00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,160
where you can't. 
I think about even more than a 

286
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,000
week, but there I want there to 
be time. 

287
00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,280
Yeah, we're all I do with. 
There's nothing you can do 

288
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:30,600
except heroic dungeons and the 
story and mess around and gather

289
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,000
herbs and have a good time. 
That's what I want. 

290
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:34,320
When because the thing to be 
fed. 

291
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,480
You're right, you're right. 
But I'm being ridiculous by 

292
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:38,800
saying, well, you know, if there
was a heroic week, if there was 

293
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,200
this protected time, I would 
have done it when Meanwhile I've

294
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,400
done like 4 delves all together.
So it's not like I'm actually 

295
00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,440
doing other things, but The 
thing is, The thing is. 

296
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,080
Well, I know you're lying there.
That's a hyperbole, because you 

297
00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:56,280
already reached the 8. 
So in order to get from rank 3 

298
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,080
and beat that to get to the 8, 
you'd have to do at least five. 

299
00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,360
That's true. 
That's true. 

300
00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,040
That's true. 
But those don't those, those do 

301
00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:04,840
count. 
I'm sorry. 

302
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:06,600
Those are you doing? 
No, you're hyperbole for 

303
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,200
somebody who's going to be 
pedantic and like, no, I love 

304
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,920
that and and be like, oh, Lexus 
play. 

305
00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:13,520
He's like, no, no, no. 
Tell me out. 

306
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,400
She's she's. 
She's going a little. 

307
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:16,320
Overboard. 
All right, she's. 

308
00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:20,160
Going, I love this. 
But The thing is what happens is

309
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,600
I think about what I could do. 
I'm like, I could go in and play

310
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,480
the story and I'm like, Oh my 
God. 

311
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,480
But I what I shouldn't be doing 
is I should be doing mythics. 

312
00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:29,160
I should be doing doves. 
I should be doing this, I should

313
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,480
be doing that. 
And then I feel guilty and then 

314
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,360
I don't log in at all and 
nobody's happy, which is 

315
00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:40,400
Blizzard's fault and not mine. 
OK, I I do want to swing back 

316
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:44,160
around to that because there's a
topic there, but yeah, 

317
00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:45,760
unfortunately we would get 
discerned. 

318
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:48,520
Flitzer just needs to hire you a
therapist, period. 

319
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:49,480
Everyone needs. 
Therapy. 

320
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:51,760
You'd be able to apply for 
therapy through Blizzard. 

321
00:16:52,040 --> 00:17:03,000
Yeah, but like I do wish that 
there was additional story 

322
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,560
content because now I'm all the 
way all the way through and I 

323
00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:13,880
could have been done the first 
week because the the first week 

324
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,040
that there was no raid 
available, just that initial 

325
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,440
introductory week, which which 
you're asking to have that 

326
00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:21,560
extended. 
Yes. 

327
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,960
You couldn't go into the raid. 
Yeah, not for sure. 

328
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,240
You couldn't go into the raid. 
You could do delves. 

329
00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:35,040
There was there was the ability 
for you to do the story and 

330
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:39,360
concentrate on the story. 
But Sean has said it himself 

331
00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:42,440
that the story has no purpose 
for him because there's no power

332
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,280
behind it. 
Unlike in previous expansions 

333
00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:50,600
where it was like, oh, I need to
unlock my ability to have a 

334
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:56,120
second legendary like we had 
back in in Zeroth Mortis or I 

335
00:17:56,120 --> 00:18:00,520
need to like work my way through
the Rep for this to unlock 

336
00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:04,560
various stones and stuff like 
like we had in Shadow Lands. 

337
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:09,280
There's always been some 
competitive power that was with 

338
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,400
the story. 
And so you could do the story 

339
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,280
and be like, I've got to do it. 
And now that's gone. 

340
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:18,920
So now, yeah, Sean didn't touch 
the story after after that, I 

341
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,720
only did the story because I 
love the lore and I went through

342
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,040
that and I went and collected 
the collected all the little 

343
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,480
storybooks so that about like 
ancient goblins and like what 

344
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,760
the deal was that like got 
different people in. 

345
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,760
But yes, that's time that I 
could be putting towards Mythic 

346
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:39,000
plus that's time I could be 
putting towards Dells. 

347
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:45,520
So I get what you're saying 
there in terms of my take. 

348
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:50,400
I had alluded to this before and
I was like, I actually am really

349
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:58,040
worried about the about this. 
The entire patch I was worried 

350
00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:04,080
would be just a Side Story. 
It's like Carmen San Diego, she 

351
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,720
she's in Italy this week. 
And like, so we're going around 

352
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,680
Italy and now there's this 
henchman of hers and we got to 

353
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,880
stop the henchman, but we don't 
catch Carmen San Diego and the 

354
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,480
henchman's ugly forgettable. 
And that's what I worried 

355
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,280
Galliwicks would be. 
He would be this forgettable 

356
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:24,480
henchman that just got in, got 
introduced and removed in the 

357
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,840
same in the same patch. 
Again, we're not talking story 

358
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:31,800
spoilers, but they did surprise 
me. 

359
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:38,760
And so I'm I'm happy about that.
The theming of the raid, the 

360
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:46,080
city, the enjoyable nature of 
this patch with like the jazz, 

361
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:53,120
the sweet jazz music, the slot 
machine slot machine boss, the 

362
00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:58,120
the goblinness of it all. 
He's really well done. 

363
00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:03,000
They managed to get that goblin 
zaniness, but allowed to have 

364
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,640
heart. 
None of it seems orderly 

365
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,720
slapstick like. 
I think the the most like OU 

366
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:14,000
goblins was when Gaslo like puts
like a million explosives at the

367
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:20,720
door of the Galaggio and you 
jump behind the the rock or 

368
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,160
whatever fortification it was to
avoid the explosion when you 

369
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:30,000
blow up the door to get in. 
The rest of it feels like a 

370
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:34,920
story of people with a goblin 
twist. 

371
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:41,360
And I loved, I love that for it 
in terms of the daily things 

372
00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:49,320
that you can do collecting scrap
the, the various rares that show

373
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,400
up and everybody like drives 
around for them, the drive 

374
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,240
system itself, all of those sort
of dailies. 

375
00:20:55,840 --> 00:21:00,840
I think they're OK. 
But I, I think that now that 

376
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:07,960
we're at a point where that's 
not mandatory, I kind of wish 

377
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,560
that they would throw story 
elements into it. 

378
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,440
I want my like, I feel like 
story can be its reward. 

379
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,480
It's going to be a big thing for
me recurring guys now that 

380
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,800
people aren't forced to do this 
as a as a power element and like

381
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,320
rush through it. 
They can they can slow it down 

382
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,480
and let us get rewarded with 
like these story story elements 

383
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,360
and go dive deeper into the 
world. 

384
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,520
I love the side quests that are 
in the zone. 

385
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:37,400
There is the one where the 
apartment landlord is absolutely

386
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:42,240
horrible and you end up like 
being the hero of like that 

387
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:46,600
apartment complex there. 
There's like the wedding thing 

388
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,840
and going around and like 
finding the perfect wedding 

389
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,360
guests and stuff. 
There's a lot of small little 

390
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:55,800
side stories, local stories, 
which I think are great. 

391
00:21:55,960 --> 00:22:00,720
And I just would like some of 
that to be in the main 

392
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,120
reputation stuff. 
I'd like to know more about the 

393
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:11,880
various cartels other than, 
yeah, we're the yellow goblins. 

394
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:13,840
We're the red goblins that 
joined the horde. 

395
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,600
We're the purple goblins that 
have eye patches and say, yar, 

396
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,560
sometimes we're the green 
goblins that like, run around to

397
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,960
the sludge. 
Like, I think that I'd like for 

398
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,000
them to have taken those 
characters because there's like 

399
00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:31,560
Gilma and all of those different
characters that they introduce. 

400
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,080
I just, I wanted more. 
I've wanted more. 

401
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:36,760
And I think they could have put 
that time in. 

402
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:46,000
Yeah, Yeah. 
But the raid, the raid I have 

403
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,960
played through normal, enjoyed 
normal. 

404
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,120
Like I like the the concepts and
stuff, like I said. 

405
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,280
But there's a big question about
the balancing. 

406
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,280
And I know Sean is going to go 
nuts on this when he comes back.

407
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,800
And I should say for the 
listeners, please give a little 

408
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,880
check in with poor Sean. 
He he's not feeling well and so 

409
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,760
couldn't make it the episode to 
today. 

410
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:16,480
I hope to have him back soon. 
But if you if you have any way 

411
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,600
of reaching out to him, just 
wish him well and a quick 

412
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:24,200
recovery. 
But yeah, there are content 

413
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:29,080
creators that are saying that 
this is the worst raid ever. 

414
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,360
There are content like literally
worst raid ever. 

415
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,640
They they ruined it with their 
bad tuning. 

416
00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:42,480
There was a liquid member who 
just went off about the tuning 

417
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:46,040
and such. 
And even Sean last week was 

418
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,200
saying like, oh, they need the 
heroic week so they can get this

419
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,080
additional tuning and and so 
forth. 

420
00:23:51,480 --> 00:24:00,240
And I have to say, race the 
world first problem mostly. 

421
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,720
So obviously by the time I even 
step into mythic, there'll be 

422
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,760
multiple waves of tuning that 
have gone through that have 

423
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,360
already gone through at the time
of this recording and more will 

424
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,680
will be coming through. 
What do you think, Lex? 

425
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:21,720
Do you think that they they need
to like push the push to have 

426
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,720
more tuning, get that heroic 
weekend stuff like you were 

427
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,120
saying last week? 
Or what's your feeling this week

428
00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:28,640
now that the race is officially 
over? 

429
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,240
So I'm not big race world first 
girlie, so I don't really know. 

430
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,280
I'm going to make a very 
uninformed statement, and I'm 

431
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:40,000
going to say it pretty intensely
because of who I am as a person.

432
00:24:40,120 --> 00:24:42,120
So I'm probably wrong. 
The same way that I thought 

433
00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:44,200
Heroic week meant that I got a 
week where I could only do 

434
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:51,200
heroic dungeons. 
I agree that like, yeah, like on

435
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,040
the one hand, we shouldn't be 
catering to the top point O 1% 

436
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:56,920
of Raiders. 
That shouldn't be our number one

437
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,000
priority. 
The priority should be the 

438
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,280
majority of players. 
That said, those really top 

439
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,120
ranks, they're the people who 
like, you know, the World of 

440
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:07,000
Warcraft is their job. 
And I think that there's 

441
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,080
something to respect there. 
Like I I think that the team 

442
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,120
should have and the team does 
have respect for the, you know, 

443
00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:15,720
race world first and the really 
high level Raiders. 

444
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,200
So yeah, there's going to be 
tuning issues. 

445
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,360
And frankly, even if they had 
more time, they probably would 

446
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,080
like tuning issues are just 
going to happen. 

447
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,160
You can't really they can't do 
the race world first before they

448
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,120
do the race world first, right? 
They're going to find things in 

449
00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:33,280
the moment. 
That said, 100 pulls on a final 

450
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,560
but last name wasn't it 99 if 
you if. 

451
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,560
You need to know the exact 
numbers right? 

452
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:45,920
World first kill on on 
Galliwicks was by liquid and 

453
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:50,680
they did 100 pulls exactly. 
That's pretty cool. 

454
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:57,200
We love that. 
Echo will 2nd 49 pulls, method 

455
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:09,720
will 3rd 104 pulls. 
Like like, yeah, it's like 

456
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,480
Liquid got it first so their 100
kills is setting the bar, Liquid

457
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:17,080
getting a second but doing it at
half the amount of pulls feels 

458
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,360
impressive. 
Getting their third and then 

459
00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:22,280
having the most pulls of 
everyone even though you've had 

460
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,320
all the other ones have had days
ahead of you to like bat their 

461
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,640
head and like forge that path 
and you really are fully going 

462
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,280
to full in their footsteps. 
It feels bad. 

463
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:36,840
It also feels bad that the race 
was over before Method even got 

464
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,840
to the final boss. 
Like they were still against 

465
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:45,160
Mugsy when like the kill when 
the kill came in and hey, we've 

466
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:50,200
crowned first place. 
But like they are according to 

467
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:57,360
according to some, they're like 
just one or two tears away from 

468
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,360
really being in contention. 
Yeah. 

469
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,720
And so. 
Well, meth used to be one of the

470
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,200
like meth. 
Basically my understanding of 

471
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,760
the NA race world first teams is
that it was good. 

472
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,160
Yeah, method is EU. 
Yeah, so. 

473
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,320
What am I thinking of? 
I will say. 

474
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,880
Like a a schism of where like 
one of the groups got 

475
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,880
accusations and so like half of 
them broke off and became liquid

476
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,640
and the other half stayed on. 
I swear to God that was. 

477
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:28,800
Method that that was method. 
They are an EU team and so yes, 

478
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:36,560
they were several issues that 
came up with method, with their 

479
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,680
leadership, with their HR, with 
like particular members of their

480
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,040
rating team. 
And many of the method Raiders 

481
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,720
left the left the team and 
started up Echo. 

482
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:54,200
So Echo is just Method Raiders 
under a different banner for 

483
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,360
the. 
That might be too reductive, but

484
00:27:56,360 --> 00:27:58,200
for the most part that's true. 
Has has. 

485
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,240
OK I'm going to sound so stupid.
Has the top NA team always been 

486
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,360
named Liquid? 
I swear to God that was changed 

487
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,080
so they. 
Used to be known as limit. 

488
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:12,400
They got bought by liquid and so
they became like liquid limit 

489
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,560
and then they just dropped limit
after a while and so now they're

490
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,880
just liquid. 
OK, I think that I kind of got 

491
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,360
wires crossed where like when 
method was falling apart. 

492
00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:21,800
I think that might have been 
around first. 

493
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,960
I'm not a race world first 
girlie, so that's why these 

494
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,360
wires got crossed very easily. 
Anyway, so now I'm caught up. 

495
00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:31,920
Now I'm caught up, I figured out
so OK, but like I I, I don't 

496
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,240
know, I and then to be I want to
be so clear. 

497
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,160
I'm never going to get 
Gallyworks on down on mythics. 

498
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,640
So like still I mean fewer 
pullers that I would. 

499
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,080
Need I'm going to tell you 
you're wrong because we're going

500
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,480
to go back and we're going to 
get you that mount the truth. 

501
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,160
One day, yeah. 
We're going to go back and 

502
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,320
didn't like 2 man it. 
We're going to be good. 

503
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:56,600
Oh, yeah. 
But I so I don't, I don't think 

504
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:04,400
I don't not to say the thing 
that I say every single podcast.

505
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,440
I think the lizard should be 
spending more time on 

506
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,240
expansions. 
I think that we should have more

507
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,040
time between patches. 
I don't think that we need to be

508
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:16,320
pushing the way that we're 
pushing. 

509
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:22,520
I think that that like I I would
rather a priority, the priority 

510
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:27,360
being things come out pretty 
close to perfect, then things 

511
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,200
come out soon. 
I understand that might not be a

512
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,440
popular opinion and that a lot 
of people like the fact that the

513
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,320
content is driving and to be 
fair, they're doing a really 

514
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,760
good like overwhelmingly they're
doing a good job of it. 

515
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:40,360
I just a humans can't keep up 
this time, right? 

516
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,360
Like the old Blizzard team 
wasn't putting out information 

517
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,080
slower because they were lazy 
and like to spend work hours 

518
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,040
eating pies, right? 
Like, they were putting out 

519
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,520
patches slower because they 
needed that time to do the work.

520
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,200
And the idea that we can just 
permanently be like, well, no, 

521
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,080
we're actually going to cut, you
know, months off of development 

522
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,760
time after laying off. 
I mean, I guess the World 

523
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:03,440
Warcraft team wasn't hit too 
hard by layoffs. 

524
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,960
But like, after putting these 
people through an emotional 

525
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:07,960
ringer and it's going to be 
fine. 

526
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:09,920
We're not going to see any 
repercussions of that. 

527
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:14,240
I think is frankly disrespectful
of the old team and like the 

528
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,440
historic team, and I might, 
maybe I'm wrong, maybe this is 

529
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:23,280
going to age really badly, but I
do feel like every patch and 

530
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,440
every expansion, I'm like, oh, 
that could have been fixed with 

531
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:32,640
another month in the pot. 
And I just wish they'd do that. 

532
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:37,520
But I know that money is money. 
There's, there's definitely 

533
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:43,440
limiting returns on like how 
much time an internal team 

534
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,720
spends on something. 
Obviously things are, nothing's 

535
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,640
ever going to be perfect, but 
yes, sometimes some more time 

536
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,200
will allow them to refine 
things. 

537
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:59,200
But I also think that when we're
in a world where in the 

538
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:04,080
day-to-day of World Warcraft is 
something you can walk away 

539
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:08,480
from, they need to give you 
reasons to come back to the game

540
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,280
more frequently. 
That's fair. 

541
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:16,120
So like, that's why we get these
patches of the 1.51.7 patch 

542
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,240
because there's a reason to 
return. 

543
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,760
Oh, something news coming. 
Let me check out Wow. 

544
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,840
When you have people blowing 
through the raid in two weeks, 

545
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:35,400
12 days, well then these guys 
are in farm mode for the next 

546
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:40,080
little bit, selling, selling 
carries for the next little bit 

547
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,760
afterwards and the race starts 
up again when the new when the 

548
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,280
new patch comes out. 
And not even the 11.5, which we 

549
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:53,680
think is going to be in time for
Easter or no, Yeah, I think it's

550
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,040
in time for Easter or it's in 
May anyways. 

551
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,520
We don't have a confirmed affirm
date, but it should be sometime 

552
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:04,120
soon, right? 
Yeah, like that doesn't do 

553
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:05,360
anything for people who are 
rating. 

554
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,320
That doesn't do anything for 
people who are doing their delve

555
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,120
journey. 
That doesn't do anything for 

556
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:15,880
people whose entire journey is 
doing keystones. 

557
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:21,520
The PvP is going to get shaken 
up if they do big balance tuning

558
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,840
like one point, sorry, rather 
eleven O 5 had big balance 

559
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:30,040
changing so that shook up PVPA 
lot, but it was still the same 

560
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,080
season. 
Your rating was still carrying 

561
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:39,120
over. 
I think that May with like a 

562
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,640
three tier sort of thing and 
they're rushing to get out the 

563
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:44,280
next expansion. 
Obviously midnight. 

564
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:48,560
We're already getting looked at 
the housing system. 

565
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,000
We already know that we're going
to get the big reveal this 

566
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:56,320
summer, which is only a couple 
of sorry, a couple half a year 

567
00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:01,000
away because we're now in March.
That's likely going to be in 

568
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,440
August. 
Don't scare me like that, Manny.

569
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,560
Things can't come out that fast.
I have things to do with my 

570
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:06,280
life. 
I'm. 

571
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:11,120
Happy, right. 
So like the, the speed of 

572
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:16,920
content is a lot faster. 
And yes, I would prefer that we 

573
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:23,480
would get meteor releases in the
small patches and, and have 

574
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,640
things teased out a little bit 
longer. 

575
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:32,040
But everybody before this, I was
complaining about, oh, Blizzard 

576
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,760
and your time gating. 
Well, now you're getting it. 

577
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,560
Now you're getting it fast. 
And nobody's complaining about 

578
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,600
time gating. 
And I, I know it's a Venn 

579
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:42,920
diagram. 
Not everybody who's complaining 

580
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,440
about time gating is the same 
people who are complaining about

581
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,320
it not being balanced on day 
one. 

582
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,720
But like, I don't think that you
could ever expect them to do 

583
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,760
everything. 
And my bias is that, yeah, the 

584
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,920
race to world first teams are 
going to go all going to go 

585
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,920
balance and test it for for me. 
And when I get to there I'll be 

586
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:06,040
fine just like all the EU guys 
are like thanks NA for beta 

587
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:07,840
testing every patch that comes 
out and. 

588
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:14,480
To be super clear, I am 
primarily concerned about the 

589
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,800
human issue of how fast things 
are moving up Blizzard and I am 

590
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:22,159
using issues that come up with a
patch to kind of make a business

591
00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:24,080
argument for why they should 
slow down. 

592
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,679
Because I under like, I, I don't
think that anyone cares. 

593
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,679
I mean, like people do care, but
I think that like the people 

594
00:34:30,679 --> 00:34:33,320
looking at the numbers are not 
going to be like, oh, but it'll 

595
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,560
make our employees sad. 
And maybe it doesn't. 

596
00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:39,360
Maybe the employees are fine. 
I don't believe it. 

597
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:44,040
Again, I really I don't because 
I to argue. 

598
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,880
That they they're unionized Lex 
and they're adults. 

599
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:52,560
When they start complaining 
about crunches and such, then I 

600
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,159
will be 100% in line in line 
with you. 

601
00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:02,560
But we haven't heard any devs 
start being like this schedule 

602
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,960
is is is ridiculous. 
You would hear it at least a 

603
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:18,480
little bit on socials, right? 
I think that that has been the 

604
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,120
issue with the gaming industry 
for a while though, right? 

605
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,280
Like, it's not like it's a new 
issue that like people feel 

606
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,480
like, well, we're doing 
something cool and it's worth 

607
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:27,840
it. 
So we got to kind of suck it up.

608
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:35,360
But but like, crunch has never 
been overly sorry. 

609
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:36,840
That's not true. 
Blizzard. 

610
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:41,840
Blizzard has had its issues with
crunch, especially since it's it

611
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,720
likes to hire passionate people 
to then come in and work for 

612
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,000
less than mark market value and 
stuff. 

613
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,200
And that's like, but that's like
an entire entire side. 

614
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:58,320
The the thing about it is that 
the team has never been quiet, 

615
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,360
or at least the entirety of the 
team has never been quiet when 

616
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,080
it's come to those sort of 
issues. 

617
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,200
Like there's how many walk outs 
when there needed to be walk 

618
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,720
outs. 
There were petitions to get like

619
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,520
the CEO fired when they when 
they felt it was necessary. 

620
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:19,600
There was complaints about 
stacked ranking in the with the 

621
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:21,600
customer. 
Sorry, the employee reviews. 

622
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:26,680
So like I just, if this was a 
persistent issue that was 

623
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:34,680
affecting the the lively the 
lives of the employees, I think 

624
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,720
we would see it more. 
And what has been told to us 

625
00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:45,560
public is that they brought on a
large number of developers and 

626
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:49,720
even before that they were 
separating the team into stages.

627
00:36:49,720 --> 00:36:53,320
So you have the team that's 
concepting things, you have the 

628
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:58,480
team that is building out the 
like the stages of the patches. 

629
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,720
And then you have a live team 
that's bringing in all these 

630
00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:04,360
other things. 
So none of those teams are like 

631
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,480
pushed on all of the work. 
They're just they're, they're, 

632
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,200
it's a far more of an assembly 
line that we're getting with 

633
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,200
patches. 
But I would, I think what I 

634
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:20,320
would love for you to do is if 
you could look for something 

635
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:27,200
that kind of points towards 
confirming or validating your 

636
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,960
concerns more. 
And I, I would love to sort of 

637
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:34,640
like do like a, a more of a 
deeper dive into it in into a 

638
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,800
future episode. 
But like I just, I feel like 

639
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,920
until we get the concerns like 
voice, like we're, we're, we're 

640
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,840
almost mothering at that point. 
Do you really think that anyone 

641
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,880
is going to come out in a time 
when Blizzard is consistently 

642
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:52,640
doing pretty intensive layoffs 
and say I'm unhappy with my job 

643
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,240
right now? 
Like I. 

644
00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:00,640
I, I think, I think that there 
that that would quiet many 

645
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:02,640
people, but it would never quiet
at all people. 

646
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,040
It would never quiet. 
Everyone. 

647
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:11,200
And I think that even when I 
felt that Blizzard was like 

648
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:17,640
Blizzard as a corporation was at
its worst with like a, a person 

649
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:23,680
that I would characterize as 
vindictive leading them, they 

650
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:28,400
they weren't able to, to sort of
not even they weren't able to do

651
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:29,840
that. 
They had so many people in the 

652
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:35,480
organization that were were 
supporting, even if even if it 

653
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,360
wasn't like loud, like it was 
quite. 

654
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:42,360
About for what, like a decade 
after the issue? 

655
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:46,120
Like, I, I don't know, maybe I 
mean, neither of us have 

656
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,720
anything. 
Like I, I guess you feel that 

657
00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:51,560
you have something more to back 
your, your side, but like we're,

658
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:53,360
we're both kind of talking in 
hypotheticals. 

659
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:58,800
But like, I would argue that the
lawsuit proves that Blizzard can

660
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,880
cover things up for a really 
long time, right? 

661
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,440
Do you feel like you knew that 
that was going to come out 

662
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,080
before the lawsuit came out? 
Like, do you feel like you would

663
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,200
have heard whispers that that 
was going on a Blizzard? 

664
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,600
I don't think, yeah, you know, 
that that is a good point. 

665
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:16,760
I, I would say that is a good 
point. 

666
00:39:17,240 --> 00:39:25,360
But I, I think that you still 
hear things, even if it, you 

667
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,760
don't, if you realize it's that 
pervasive, you still hear a 

668
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:31,440
couple of things. 
You can still hear about like, 

669
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:36,280
oh, BlizzCon and like, oh, 
something happened at BlizzCon, 

670
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,360
or like, this is horrible that 
this has happened at that 

671
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,920
BlizzCon. 
You still still have some of 

672
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,680
those things. 
And I guess that kind of segues 

673
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:52,080
into the announcement about, no,
I was going to say the obvious 

674
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,600
word for BlizzCon coming back 
because we're talking about like

675
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,400
all the bad things. 
But we talked about that last 

676
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:57,120
week. 
We did. 

677
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,320
You know what I want, I want to 
give us a couple seconds to talk

678
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,640
about, although I know we've 
been very chatty for a very long

679
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:07,360
time, is maybe how was the 
Toronto Creators event? 

680
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:08,960
Not, sorry, not the Toronto's 
Creators event. 

681
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,280
How was the Toronto 30th 
anniversary? 

682
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,920
Yeah, OK, So I went to the 
Toronto Warcraft 30th 

683
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:21,040
anniversary event. 
It was nice. 

684
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,000
I thought that it was. 
It was nice. 

685
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:29,600
It was a very intimate thing 
because like they had a space, 

686
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:34,640
the entire space of the rec room
would hold like 1200 people, but

687
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,960
they had only cordoned off a 
part of it for about 300 people,

688
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,960
which includes staff and the 
dignitaries. 

689
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:45,080
Anyways, you know what kind of 
events I usually go to anyways, 

690
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:47,960
like the end of the faces and 
everything. 

691
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,240
And so it was sort of like just 
a social. 

692
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,720
It wasn't like police con. 
There were no announcements. 

693
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:01,120
There were no like games on on 
hand for you to test or 

694
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,080
anything. 
It the events included, of 

695
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:09,560
course, like a bit of a speech 
by Holly Longdale, who is 

696
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:11,400
Canadian. 
For those of you who don't know,

697
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:17,240
Tina Wang was there and Brendan 
Sewell, who is from Hearthstone.

698
00:41:17,240 --> 00:41:20,120
Tina Wang is one of the senior 
artists, right? 

699
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:24,040
And just talking about like, oh,
like Warcraft has been going 30 

700
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,400
years and it's great and we're 
looking forward to like doing 

701
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,800
more stuff, but no big 
announcements. 

702
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:37,000
There was a, a cosplay sort of 
showcase where there's people 

703
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,160
dressed up as all the like, 
mostly the different dragon 

704
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:45,160
aspects felt very Dragonflight. 
Then they gave like if they gave

705
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,280
out mocktails and just got to 
chat and everything. 

706
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,360
There was like a little book 
that you could sign gift gift 

707
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:54,960
box or is a gift bag really that
had a couple of things like I 

708
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,400
think same as the London event 
had that same gift bag. 

709
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:05,160
And so like what I found was the
real fun of that event was 

710
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,280
meeting people. 
Like it is great to be in a 

711
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,120
place where like, you know, 
everybody shares a common 

712
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:15,280
interest and that you got to 
like talk with people. 

713
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:19,480
So like it was just the 
conversations that I had, 

714
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:24,080
whether it was Towley and his 
love of like calling everything 

715
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,200
clickbait or sorry, that was 
Slute. 

716
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:28,880
That was Slute. 
Slute called everything 

717
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:30,080
clickbait. 
I'm just like, no, you're 

718
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:31,880
warping the, the entire term of 
it. 

719
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:37,240
Or like meeting ABBA Don, who's 
a streamer that like I've talked

720
00:42:37,240 --> 00:42:40,320
to her a couple of times and 
actually meeting, meeting people

721
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:42,200
in person. 
That was, I think that's what 

722
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:49,320
really made the, the event. 
But I think BlizzCon is a 

723
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,800
different animal. 
It is just like a bigger, badder

724
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:57,040
beasts of an event. 
Yeah, well, I'm really hoping to

725
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:58,880
be at the Boston event, although
we won't know until we have 

726
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,840
tickets. 
So hopefully I'll see people 

727
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:03,560
there and we'll have fun. 
We'll chat. 

728
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,200
I have big dreams of bringing a 
lapel Mike and maybe doing some 

729
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,760
small interviews, but TBD if 
that actually happens. 

730
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,520
But I'm still that that sounds 
so lovely, just having that time

731
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:14,920
to talk to people. 
Like, as much as I do agree that

732
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,400
it sounds like BlizzCon is an 
entirely different beast and the

733
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,000
energy is completely different, 
I do think that part of the joy 

734
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,480
was just being in a space where 
everybody loves the same thing 

735
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:24,120
you love. 
Right. 

736
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,960
I remember one of the just the 
happiest moments for me at 

737
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,600
BlizzCon was just looking around
and watching everyone play 

738
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,320
Rumble because Rumble and jump 
come out at BlizzCon and being 

739
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,760
like, Oh my God, I got early 
access. 

740
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:38,160
I, I was doing beta testing and 
just feeling like we're all the 

741
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:39,600
same. 
Like we're all just, but I was 

742
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,360
also playing Rumble. 
Like, we're all just having a 

743
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:42,760
good time. 
We're playing our fun little 

744
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,120
games. 
And we're just, we're here for 

745
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,000
the joy and the happiness and, 
and to support this game that we

746
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:49,480
all love. 
Yeah. 

747
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:51,840
So I'm glad you're able to have 
a little bit of that experience.

748
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,320
The Boston one, I think it's 
going to be really good. 

749
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,720
It's like happening right 
alongside packs. 

750
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,520
So like if you can get out the 
boss, if you can get those 

751
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:06,240
tickets, do do so. 
Again, these tickets sell fast. 

752
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:11,160
So if you are looking to get 
tickets, be ready with that 

753
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,880
refresh button to try and get it
because the Toronto one went in 

754
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,600
like about a minute. 
I'm not sure if it was under a 

755
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:21,880
minute or over a minute, but it 
was about a minute that that 

756
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,080
they sold out my friend and I, 
my friend gave me a heads up. 

757
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,080
It was like, oh, they're going 
on sound like right, right, let 

758
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:28,640
me go. 
I got tickets. 

759
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:32,120
He didn't. 
So luckily I brought him along 

760
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:37,200
and that was good. 
Anyways, let's swing it back to 

761
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:42,400
the I the game itself. 
Let's talk about Delves because 

762
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,800
there's been yet again more 
balancing with Delves. 

763
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:52,560
Bran has received a number of of
buffs, so they have decided to 

764
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:57,720
sort of roll back a couple of 
the nurse that they gave him. 

765
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:01,280
Remember that he knocked his 
health down by 20%. 

766
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:07,280
Well, now it's back up 10%. 
The big one that they did is 

767
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:11,920
that all versions of Brand, 
whether he's tank, heal or DPS 

768
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,720
now take 50% reduced damage from
AOE. 

769
00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:17,920
And I think that's a big one in 
terms of survivability for all 

770
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:23,400
brands. 
And they fixed a a bug where 

771
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:29,880
healer Brand, his damage taken 
was not being reduced as 

772
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:31,880
expected. 
So healer Brand was especially 

773
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:36,960
frail and they fixed a bug with 
that on top of the 50% reduction

774
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:44,680
going back to tank man, he now 
receives 13% reduced damage 

775
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,680
overall. 
Remember, they increases damage 

776
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:48,840
taken by 60%. 
Well, now they've backed it off 

777
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:54,240
a little bit from that. 
He now also receives 5% reduced 

778
00:45:54,240 --> 00:45:57,640
damage while using his shotgun. 
That's great for AOE thing 

779
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,040
because the shotgun is great for
that spread damage and now he 

780
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:02,480
takes less damage when he's 
using that. 

781
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:11,400
They have put in a special 
internal cooldown for his like 

782
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:15,920
stacking weapon as sorry 
stacking damage buff for a lot 

783
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:21,360
of the hot like effects. 
So it's not just hot like, you 

784
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:25,040
know, riptide or soothing 
soothing mist, but it's also 

785
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:27,680
things that you where he would 
get like relatively frequent 

786
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:30,240
healing. 
Like when you use pennants on a 

787
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,280
on a discipline priest. 
It's not actually a hot because 

788
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:37,240
it's damage events that then 
translate to healing, but 

789
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,280
because it's happening so 
constantly, they are treating it

790
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,720
like a hot for this. 
So now I believe it's about 5 

791
00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:49,640
seconds where he won't gain 
additional stack of the the 

792
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,680
damage buff when you're when 
you're using these abilities, 

793
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:57,680
but you can still stack this up.
Keep enrolling in combat, keep 

794
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:02,320
those stacks going. 
He it stacks up to like 360% 

795
00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:06,600
damage. 
So it's still quite a big damage

796
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:08,320
buff. 
And now that he doesn't like get

797
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:13,440
like two shots as quickly Brand,
I think tank Brand is in a much 

798
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,280
better position. 
And that's not even including 

799
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:19,560
the fact that like last week, 
when this wasn't happening, I 

800
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:23,960
jumped on my shaman, went over 
to heel spec with like garbage 

801
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,560
trinkets that were like things 
that I could find, hobbled 

802
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:31,080
around A11 delve and still got 
through it. 

803
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:37,480
And that was like item Level 3, 
sorry, rather 612 or 613. 

804
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:41,160
So not, not anything high. 
I'm leveled, not skilled with it

805
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:43,480
because I haven't done for a bit
and now it's even better. 

806
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:47,680
So I think should be good. 
Yeah, I do. 

807
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,360
I will say I complain a lot 
about Delves being underpowered 

808
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:51,560
this tier and I will probably 
can. 

809
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:53,360
I mean at this point they're 
just going to be under tap power

810
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:54,440
at all tier. 
So I'll complain about it all 

811
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,200
tier. 
That said, I do think that it 

812
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:00,080
should be fair, right? 
Like, if I, as a tanky DPS, 

813
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,600
could go in and kind of only 
half pay attention to my poles 

814
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:06,880
and not do my rotation and still
get through pretty cleanly, then

815
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:09,080
a healer at a similar item level
should be able to do the exact 

816
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,520
same. 
So yeah, I like the fact that 

817
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:13,720
they're putting things back up 
and they're making it so that 

818
00:48:13,720 --> 00:48:18,160
healing in Delves remains that's
viable. 

819
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:20,880
I mean, like I haven't done it. 
So and and also we've talked 

820
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,800
extensively about how like 
nothing like if if you're trying

821
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,040
to balance to this many classes 
with this many different skill 

822
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:27,680
sets, nothing is going to be 
equal, right? 

823
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,840
There are going to be some Demon
Hunter is going to be 

824
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,480
particularly powerful in Delves 
because we're particularly high,

825
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,480
highly tanky and we are 
particularly high in self heels,

826
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:37,880
right. 
So I'm always going to have an 

827
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:39,960
easier time in Delves. 
That's. 

828
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:43,920
Go for it. 
One thing I will say, even if 

829
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:47,400
you were a Demon Hunter, the 
trio of hobgovins, you know 

830
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:51,680
those ones that charge nasty, 
those things were nasty. 

831
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,520
They decided to nerf that by 
like kicking one of the trio off

832
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:56,680
the team. 
So now it's only two. 

833
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,600
I'm in love. 
Like when I, when I saw those 

834
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,440
guys, I like that was like the 
OK, this is going to be the 

835
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,120
challenge. 
And it was like Dunlock burn one

836
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:08,080
down and I can handle 2 now they
start off as two from the get 

837
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:10,160
go. 
I'm I'm, I'm enjoying it. 

838
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:13,840
Oh yeah, that's a good change. 
Those again, I think that things

839
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:17,680
should be consistent through 
throughout delves, throughout 

840
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,200
different delves, throughout 
different classes and delves. 

841
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:22,640
So like that, that was tough, 
right? 

842
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:26,080
It was a little bit weird that 
it's like, I can do the end boss

843
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:30,440
and only pay like 10% attention,
but I get to this like mid 

844
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:33,640
level, like just trying to 
upgrade my Ruby in cash and all 

845
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,000
of a sudden it's complicated, 
like what is going on here? 

846
00:49:39,240 --> 00:49:41,760
So yeah, I, I, I agree that's a 
good change. 

847
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:43,160
We like that. 
We were down to just two. 

848
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:45,320
The other one went first, as 
Blizzard said. 

849
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:49,480
Yeah. 
Yeah, I mean, like to be fair, 

850
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:53,600
as much as I complain about how 
I want elves to be harder. 

851
00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:56,880
It is. 
Kind of fun I will admit that I 

852
00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:02,400
can go in and spend 15 minutes 
just I beaming things down and 

853
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:04,080
call it a day and get some good 
gear. 

854
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:08,640
You know I, I would like more 
single player challenge to 

855
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:15,560
continue through longer in the 
season, but I it's not that I'm 

856
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:19,440
not enjoying delves, right it's 
not that I'm not having fun 

857
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:23,000
doing delves. 
It's just that I want more. 

858
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:29,120
I don't want to be at the apex 
of Delves at this point. 

859
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:31,760
I I didn't want to be at the 
apex of the delves last week, 

860
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:33,840
right? 
I wanted that to give me more 

861
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,280
that I could do throughout the 
season. 

862
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:40,080
Yeah, yeah. 
So if any Blizzard devs are 

863
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:42,600
listening, like, yeah, throw, 
throw in those those challenge 

864
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:44,200
modes, we'd we'd love to see 
them. 

865
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:47,040
The challenge mode with the 
third guy comes back and he's 

866
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:51,040
like, oh I, I've been swimming 
and now I've got the swimmer 

867
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:55,600
pod. 
Man's a triangle. 

868
00:50:55,920 --> 00:51:00,480
Yeah, yeah, but no, I'm, I'm 
glad for the I'm glad for these 

869
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:04,760
changes for those who need it. 
I don't think that this there's 

870
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:08,200
they're much smaller changes. 
They're nowhere near the 60% 

871
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:09,880
change. 
They are very targeted. 

872
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:14,720
The AOE, the AOE damage I think 
was Brand's real weakness. 

873
00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:17,640
The fact that like Brand was 
going down and getting stunned 

874
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:21,440
and and I was still just like, 
all right, fine, I'll I'll just 

875
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:23,320
roll up the gloves. 
I'll do it myself. 

876
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:25,560
Thanos snap a couple of 
creatures and go. 

877
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:30,920
I do think that delves could 
need stuff, but my mileage 

878
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:34,560
varies from other people. 
So yeah, they've got the numbers

879
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:39,600
and they're making the tuning. 
Yeah, we're popping along now. 

880
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:41,320
Here's what I think. 
Here's what I think I just said.

881
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:44,360
I think that things should be 
equal among tears or like among 

882
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:46,120
within delves. 
Everyone should be the same. 

883
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:50,040
I think it should be the same 
with different sections of delve

884
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:52,640
I think, or not not delve 
different sections of the game. 

885
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,680
So I think that if we're going 
to say that I can reach tier 8 

886
00:51:56,680 --> 00:52:00,720
delves in one sitting, I should 
also be able to what? 

887
00:52:00,720 --> 00:52:02,880
What's the mythic plus version 
like? 

888
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,120
What would hit at the same gear 
level as an ear? 

889
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:07,760
Like not recommended gear 
because the recommended gear for

890
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:11,840
delves is busted, but what drops
a 539? 

891
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:18,640
I want to say 8639. 
Yeah, yeah, 639 at the end of a 

892
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:21,880
dungeon. 
Good question. 

893
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:27,480
I think you're looking at A7 
like, you know what, Let me just

894
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:29,800
quickly pull up a little chart 
here because they were the 

895
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,520
Fisher's Guide that had all of 
that. 

896
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:43,000
And so if you want a 639 from a 
Mythic Plus, you are looking at 

897
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:53,240
2 plus three. 3 + 4 also gives 
you at the end of the dungeon 

898
00:52:54,720 --> 00:52:56,160
639. 
Yeah. 

899
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:59,480
So it's real quick to get that 
level in Mythic Plus. 

900
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:03,200
I guess realistically my issue 
is the same issue I've had with 

901
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,320
delves the entire time, which is
that I don't think they're 

902
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:09,760
actual end game, right? 
And they're not, they're not 

903
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:11,240
meant. 
I understand that you're going 

904
00:53:11,240 --> 00:53:12,840
to then respond with yes, 
Elizabeth said. 

905
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,880
They are not like that. 
They cap at a much lower level 

906
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:20,480
than group and game content. 
But I think that we have not 

907
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,800
achieved single player end game 
content. 

908
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:26,600
And I think that they need to do
that. 

909
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:30,600
And I don't really believe any 
of the arguments they've given 

910
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:33,200
me for why they can't give me 
single player end game content 

911
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:35,520
that. 
Well is it the rewards that make

912
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:37,240
it single player end game 
content? 

913
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:40,040
Well, I mean, first of all, 
there's the amount, but also, 

914
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:44,520
yeah, I I think that I should, 
I, I think that I there's for me

915
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:46,840
to say that we have achieved 
single player end game content. 

916
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:50,480
I should be able to get 
essentially like equally geared 

917
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:54,960
doing delves as I would doing 
mythic plus right? 

918
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,120
Like I should. 
Be or like a mythic raid. 

919
00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:59,000
Yeah, sure. 
Wow. 

920
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,040
And it should be equal level of 
challenge. 

921
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:05,600
But I think that I, I, I, I have
not heard an argument that 

922
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:09,960
genuinely convinces me yet of 
why they can't tune single 

923
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,320
player content to difficulty 
levels. 

924
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:16,240
That would mean that you could 
have viable like true end game, 

925
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:18,880
the way that you have mythic 
rate, the way that you have high

926
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:21,600
level mythic Plus. 
I have not heard a real argument

927
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:23,600
that I, I fully believe. 
And maybe it's just I don't buy 

928
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:24,960
any of the good arguments, 
right? 

929
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:28,880
OK, so let me let me run past a 
what I feel is a good argument 

930
00:54:29,240 --> 00:54:34,400
and see if you you believe it. 
Let's assume that there are an 

931
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:36,320
unlimited number of Lexus in the
world. 

932
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:41,840
OK, there are equal amount of 
Lexus that are playing Demon 

933
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:45,840
Hunter and Priest, which means 
that you can cover every role 

934
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:52,440
between tank, healer, range, 
DPS, melee DPS. 

935
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:59,480
OK, in a delve, single player 
delve failure or success is 

936
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:03,480
binary. 
Lex messes up, she fails, Lex 

937
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:08,200
succeeds, she wins. 
In a raid, mythic raid, which is

938
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:16,040
20 Lex, one Lex fails, does that
mean she wipes the raid and 

939
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:20,520
that's equal difficulty or half 
the Lexus fail? 

940
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:24,200
All but one Lex fails and they 
could still make it through the 

941
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:28,160
the the failure. 
Just the failure line with no 

942
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:31,640
other context is just wildly 
different between the two, the 

943
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:37,240
two formats, right? 
You fail a mechanic in a delve 

944
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:40,400
and let's say it one shots you 
because that's the level of of 

945
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:46,000
the hit, right? 
That's that's going to wipe your

946
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,760
team if you do. 
If one person fails a mechanic 

947
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:52,960
and gets one shot in a mythic 
raid, that isn't the end of the 

948
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:56,760
world, right? 
Well, so first of all, I would 

949
00:55:56,760 --> 00:56:01,680
say that they equal that out 
with Simon. 

950
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:03,640
I'm making a couple points. 
The first thing they they, they 

951
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:07,000
could, they have not. 
This is not well balanced in 

952
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,000
Delve. 
I think that what they would 

953
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:12,600
need to do is they would need to
give a higher fail state, right?

954
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:14,560
They would need to make it much 
harder, for example, to be a 

955
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:19,000
tank and a delve, make it much 
and make make I probably fewer 

956
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:22,280
lives at the end of a delve, and
make it easier to die in a delve

957
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,920
because I I would actually kind 
of argue the opposite, which is 

958
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:28,480
that a delve is at this point 
virtually unfailable like. 

959
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:32,240
I I did not argue it one way. 
I just said if both are equal 

960
00:56:32,240 --> 00:56:37,800
chance of fail fail state, you 
have 20 chances in one versus 

961
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:40,880
binary in the other. 
I guess I'm kind of struggling 

962
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:43,960
with the issue like then then 
you you balance it out at race 

963
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:47,560
you make. 
What's the equal difficulty in 

964
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:48,840
that? 
Like assuming that you can make 

965
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:52,720
both of them equal, how many 
people have to fail in a raid to

966
00:56:52,720 --> 00:56:56,000
equal one person dying and and 
and failing in the delve? 

967
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:59,040
Well, how many people have to 
die in a mythic plus equal dying

968
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:00,320
and failing in a raid? 
Do you Would you? 

969
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:04,840
I don't know that I'd argue that
those are inherently 1 to one. 

970
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:07,240
I I, I, I guess I'm just not 
understanding. 

971
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:10,880
Like, is it? 
Are you saying that the issue is

972
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:12,760
that it's too? 
Like one would be too easy and 

973
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:16,720
the other would be too hard? 
I just think that like it if you

974
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:20,200
have, you don't know how much 
can fail between one or the 

975
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:22,880
other. 
That's the answer to that in my 

976
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:25,400
mind is that there is no correct
answer, right? 

977
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:30,840
There is like there are 
mechanics that will one shot one

978
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:35,840
shot you in a raid and you fail 
and it'll cause a immediate raid

979
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:38,640
wipe, right? 
Which means that you that any 

980
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:43,240
one out of 20 people can cause 
entire raid to wipe, right? 

981
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:45,680
And that mythic difficulty 
personal responsibility can be 

982
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:49,880
at that level. 
In a delve, it's always personal

983
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:53,120
responsibility. 
You die, you die Brand is never 

984
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:55,600
going to carry you through it 
right? 

985
00:57:56,120 --> 00:58:03,640
In terms of the, the balance in 
a 20 person raid, they can 

986
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:08,360
assume that you have certain 
things like Mythic Galliwick's, 

987
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:12,160
the the gate doesn't come down. 
You need somebody who can 

988
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:14,240
actually jump over. 
So you have to give it to an 

989
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:16,600
evoker. 
You have to give it to a Demon 

990
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:19,800
Hunter that you jump over the 
gap because anybody else is just

991
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:21,240
going to fall and they won't be 
able to do it. 

992
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:25,520
So they can assume that in a 20 
person raid at mythic level, 

993
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:28,840
somebody's going to be able to 
bring one of those classes that 

994
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:31,760
can do that or even a warlock 
that can gate it, but then they 

995
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:33,960
can't get back. 
So they'd have to use their 

996
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:35,960
circle. 
It's like there's like you could

997
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:38,680
use different things in a in a 
pinch, right? 

998
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:46,160
That kind of balance can't be 
done in a delve because even if 

999
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:48,600
you scale it to five people, you
can't guarantee that somebody 

1000
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:54,320
has has an ability, right? 
Same thing with the the damage 

1001
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:56,120
that they're having now. 
They're having such an issue 

1002
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:59,520
making it challenging for 
somebody who's a geared tank to 

1003
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:02,680
go through delves because they 
also need the damage not to 

1004
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:05,560
scale so far that the mage isn't
going to get one shot or some 

1005
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:09,040
other cloth wearing class that 
can't take take the hits. 

1006
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:13,520
I just think the tuning can 
never be as exact as on a mythic

1007
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:16,280
raid and therefore the 
difficulty cannot be as dialed 

1008
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:17,960
in. 
And in an episode where we were 

1009
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:21,160
just talking about them having 
such difficulties balancing the 

1010
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:24,880
raid right, asking them to do 
that with a mythic plus just 

1011
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:29,920
seems so far gone. 
So I kind of feel like I, I, I 

1012
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:32,080
feel like what I think was the 
slip of the tongue there 

1013
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:35,160
actually kind of makes my like, 
I, I, I think that that's an 

1014
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:37,680
argument that people bake and I 
think that it's kind of 

1015
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:41,440
inherently washed out by the 
fact that mythic plus exists, 

1016
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:43,920
right. 
And in mythic plus, there are a 

1017
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:47,080
significantly higher number of 
potential combinations of 

1018
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:51,520
classes that are going through 
then will ever the the the the 

1019
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:54,840
numbers of ways that you can 
combine five classes in World of

1020
00:59:54,840 --> 01:00:00,520
Warcraft is I don't I can't do 
the math, but it's probably in 

1021
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:01,560
the thousands. 
I don't know. 

1022
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:02,800
I don't know. 
I can't do the math, But I know 

1023
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:05,360
that that like that change, like
that sort of exponential 

1024
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:08,640
combination is I went to high 
school. 

1025
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:11,200
I didn't, I haven't thought 
about that in a while, but they 

1026
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:13,720
balance it right. 
And yeah, and and there's always

1027
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:16,400
times that it's like, yeah, like
it's so much better to bring a 

1028
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:17,840
shaman. 
So it's so much easier to get 

1029
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:21,320
into. 
And plus a shaman or like this 

1030
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:23,840
season just really sucks if 
you're a warlock. 

1031
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:26,520
I don't know if that's true. 
I pulled a class out of my butt 

1032
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:30,240
but like. 
There Yeah, there are always 

1033
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:33,160
balancing issues and there's 
always a meta, but clearly the 

1034
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:40,000
Blizzard team knows how to 
balance events, how to balance 

1035
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:45,280
and plus specifically so that 
you can take a group of five. 

1036
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:48,560
Yeah, like like you said in in 
raid, you can be like, well, 

1037
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:52,600
it's 20 people, you're going to 
have somebody who can jump, but 

1038
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:55,320
you can't do that in M plus. 
So it's not that Blizzard needs 

1039
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:58,720
the capability to assume that 
certain percent like, you know, 

1040
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:00,960
you're always going to have 
people who have certain skills 

1041
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:05,600
to to do to create content. 
They're capable of creating 

1042
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:07,960
content where they're like, 
well, what are we, you know, how

1043
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:09,880
are we going to balance this in 
case they don't have somebody 

1044
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:12,800
who can do a magic dispel, but 
we want to have a magic debuff 

1045
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:15,640
in like what what's the how? 
How are we going to manage that?

1046
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:17,360
It's not just that. 
It's like, well, for this 

1047
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:20,840
dungeon we exclusively have to 
do like, we just assume that you

1048
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:22,240
have a priest or you're all 
going to die. 

1049
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:26,880
Yes, no, right. 
Like I mean like magic buff 

1050
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:29,240
aside because all healers get 
rid of magic, but like let's 

1051
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:30,320
say. 
OK, well then I picked the wrong

1052
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:31,400
one. 
Disease, let's say you say 

1053
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:32,120
poison. 
Yeah. 

1054
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:35,720
Disease or disease or something 
that required a specific kind of

1055
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:39,400
dispel. 
Yes and no, because you will 

1056
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:45,040
find that above certain key 
levels, certain classes no 

1057
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:48,400
longer become viable. 
And what they do is that they 

1058
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:53,880
don't have the reward scale 
infinitely, just like Mythic 

1059
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:58,720
Plus scales infinitely. 
They cap the rewards so that if 

1060
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:02,880
you are doing a 12, you get the 
best rewards. 

1061
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:07,440
But people go on and they do 
18/19/20, right? 

1062
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:11,400
Like they're going to almost 
double where the rewards cap 

1063
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:14,280
out. 
And regardless of all that you 

1064
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:19,360
do, the best rewards come once a
week in the vault. 

1065
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:24,920
The lower rewards, the lower 
rewards are like capped lower 

1066
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:27,280
because mythic plus rewards 
faster. 

1067
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:32,920
And that's been like the largest
argument that we've had many 

1068
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:35,120
times on this show and many 
times throughout the community 

1069
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:42,080
is Mythic pluses don't offer the
same logistical complexity and 

1070
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:48,560
difficulty that raids do, right?
And often what you'll find is 

1071
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:56,160
that many of the the same things
that they would do in a raid 

1072
01:02:56,160 --> 01:03:01,920
where it's like, OK, this raid 
requires you to have a death 

1073
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:05,120
knight or some sort of sort of 
thing that doesn't get forced 

1074
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:07,040
movement so that you can do 
this. 

1075
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:11,880
Or this one requires that you 
use immunity like they did it in

1076
01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:17,440
so gears or that sort of thing 
in order to really push through 

1077
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:23,560
this, this fight in in mythic 
Plus they still have some of 

1078
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:27,040
those things where it's like, 
OK, you now need to leave the 

1079
01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:29,160
group. 
Like let's say dark flame craft 

1080
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:32,320
last boss and dark flame craft, 
you get a circle around you. 

1081
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:36,160
You now need to leave the group 
and go out into into the 

1082
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:39,560
darkness to so that you don't 
fear the entire group. 

1083
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:47,400
And if and if one person doesn't
do that well, then everybody 

1084
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:51,000
gets feared, it's likely to lead
her wipe at a high enough level.

1085
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:53,760
Right, which is something 
similar that they can do in a 

1086
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:56,640
raid where it's like a bunch you
get get circles. 

1087
01:03:56,640 --> 01:03:58,320
You can't stand on top of 
somebody else. 

1088
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:02,800
They do that all the time. 
Like in the carnage fight, the 

1089
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:05,600
Colosseum of carnage. 
It's like, OK, here's circles 

1090
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:09,080
around you spread out so you 
don't hit your your fellows 

1091
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:13,400
right. 
They can't do that in delves 

1092
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:16,240
because they're not guaranteed 
to have fellows. 

1093
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:19,400
Your everything has to be sort 
of a personal thing. 

1094
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:22,080
Yes, sometimes Bran will cleanse
for you. 

1095
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:27,040
So hey, you don't need to have 
that that curse because Bran 

1096
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:31,800
will sometimes curse for you. 
But then you need to support 

1097
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:34,440
brand, you need to use a 
defensive for yourself and they 

1098
01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:37,560
don't put as they don't put tank
Busters in there because you're 

1099
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:40,000
not guaranteed to have a tank. 
So there's a lot of different 

1100
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:43,200
things that they can use to make
a more exacting difficulty that 

1101
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:46,880
they that they're literally 
restrained from using in delves.

1102
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:51,280
But again, but again, there's 
there's also huge differences in

1103
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:53,640
what you can do in an M plus 
versus the rain. 

1104
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:56,360
But they have end game content 
for both of them right? 

1105
01:04:56,560 --> 01:05:00,240
Like yeah, but you said the end 
game is because you can get the 

1106
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:05,720
best gear and I'm showing that 
mythic plus takes a step down 

1107
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:09,880
because it's difficulty is wait.
Does mythic plus not offer the 

1108
01:05:09,880 --> 01:05:11,880
same level of gear that raid 
does? 

1109
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:14,240
Like like top level mythic plus?
What? 

1110
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:17,200
What is the the raid difference?
The gear difference between top 

1111
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:21,840
level like mythic raid gear and 
M plus like before you hit the 

1112
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:25,240
challenge mode. 
So at the end, at the end of a 

1113
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:34,240
raid, you will get 662, I 
believe gear and I'm I'd have to

1114
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:38,400
go 678 on the very rare 678 
gear. 

1115
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:44,440
OK, at other at other places 
it's 672. 

1116
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:51,480
OK in a mythic plus the end of a
vault will give you 655 and then

1117
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:55,480
sorry the end of a dungeon 6:55 
and then in a vault you will get

1118
01:05:55,480 --> 01:06:00,400
662 which you can then start 
going like OK let me upgrade 

1119
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:03,760
this but it's slower because you
start at that lower thing and 

1120
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:06,280
have to upgrade. 
So they already offset it a bit.

1121
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:09,000
OK, So I would accept the delves
mainly. 

1122
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:12,640
Yeah, like it does not have to 
be like exactly. 

1123
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:15,240
I, I, I, I I didn't realize 
that. 

1124
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:19,680
So maybe I'm a little bit, but 
10 item levels is different than

1125
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:25,240
I guess 20. 
Are you serious? 

1126
01:06:25,240 --> 01:06:28,480
Is it really? 
So the delve is 649 at in the 

1127
01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:33,520
vault at 6:39 in in there but 
their heroic track so they will 

1128
01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:38,680
cap. 
Oh man I hate when I do this cap

1129
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:43,600
at 665 S The stuff that you get 
out of a delve in your vault 

1130
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:49,280
right on the hero track you can 
get up to. 

1131
01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:51,760
Is it on the hero track? 
Oh God, Delves. 

1132
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:54,040
Wait, is it 655? 
No. 

1133
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:58,320
It's going to be champ track. 
No, it's going to be hero track.

1134
01:06:58,320 --> 01:06:59,520
I'm right, I'm right. 
It's hero track. 

1135
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:04,760
There's only a 20 item level 
difference, but less than less 

1136
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:06,360
than a 20 item level difference 
between. 

1137
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:10,200
If you do it AM 2 and it's like 
it's in an M10. 

1138
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:12,840
Is the top level mythic? 
I don't do top level anything. 

1139
01:07:13,240 --> 01:07:18,120
Mythic. 
If you do a mythic 10 you will 

1140
01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:21,120
get the best in your vault. 
That'll get you a 662 in your 

1141
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:24,560
vault. 
OK, that's the highest reward 

1142
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:26,400
you can get out of a vault from 
a mythic. 

1143
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:31,160
Plus that difference between 
what you get out of a vault for 

1144
01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:36,560
the top tier delve. 649 to 52 
right? 

1145
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:39,040
That's a 13 item level 
difference. 

1146
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:43,680
So but but no I'm talking I'm 
I'm I'm just surprised I don't 

1147
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:45,920
do top level mythic so I didn't 
even realize how small of an 

1148
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:48,840
item level change this is. 
So it's only a 20 item level 

1149
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:54,840
change if you do an M2 and an 
M10AM I tripping out? 

1150
01:07:55,520 --> 01:08:04,160
So a mythic 2 gets you the 39 
and the mythic 10 getting you 55

1151
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:07,880
is I guess. 
I'm not not not nothing, but 

1152
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:09,760
it's much slower than I thought 
it was. 

1153
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:11,400
Right. 
Plus it's on a different upgrade

1154
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:12,760
track there at that point, 
right? 

1155
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:14,080
That's true. 
Yeah. 

1156
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:19,399
So I I guess maybe it's more so 
that mythic plus isn't as strong

1157
01:08:19,399 --> 01:08:21,319
as I thought it was and I just 
assumed that mythic plus is 

1158
01:08:21,319 --> 01:08:24,840
strong because all of my besties
who like spend all their time 

1159
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:27,319
playing are super geared after 
mythic plus. 

1160
01:08:28,279 --> 01:08:31,160
Again, like it's easier for you 
to get like and there's also the

1161
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:33,920
organizational challenge. 
It's easier for you to get 5 

1162
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:36,920
people together and go do Mythic
Plus than it is for you to get 

1163
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:40,840
20 people together and do a 
Mythic raid and 20 people at 

1164
01:08:40,840 --> 01:08:45,160
that level versus 5 people at 
that same level if they were 

1165
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:47,200
equivalent. 
It's just a completely different

1166
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:49,399
organizational hurdle to jump 
through. 

1167
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:52,560
Oh yeah, yeah. 
And I mean, like, to be fair, 

1168
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:54,920
I'm not arguing the delves. 
I, I'm not arguing the delves 

1169
01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:56,960
should be infinitely scalable. 
I'm also not arguing the delves 

1170
01:08:56,960 --> 01:09:00,240
should like, I, I would be more 
than happy if they made it so 

1171
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:02,080
the delves could continue on 
longer. 

1172
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:04,640
And this like there was more 
levels and more gear that you 

1173
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:06,439
were getting out of them at 
higher levels and you were able 

1174
01:09:06,439 --> 01:09:11,000
to push further in delves. 
But also like I, I think, I 

1175
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:14,600
think 5 lives is far too much. 
And I think first of all, I 

1176
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:16,600
think the kid things will have 
to kill you more and I want that

1177
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:18,000
to happen. 
And I also think I, I want to 

1178
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:20,760
fail adults. 
I would like adults to feel 

1179
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:24,840
failable. 
At the higher levels, I think as

1180
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:29,359
you start going into 9/10/11, I 
believe you start with less 

1181
01:09:29,359 --> 01:09:32,840
lives. 
I think it's like 5 lives at 8 

1182
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:36,080
and like at 11 you start with 
like 3 lives and you might be 

1183
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:37,800
able to gain a life once you get
to the mid. 

1184
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:39,800
No, you do get it. 
Gain a life through it. 

1185
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:42,800
You can gain a life when you get
to the midpoint or something 

1186
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:45,840
like that. 
Yeah, exactly right. 

1187
01:09:45,840 --> 01:09:48,680
I I, I will say I'm not like 
it's, I don't, if I'm not 

1188
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:50,880
getting anything out of 
something, I'm probably not 

1189
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:54,720
gonna do it in World of Warcraft
or unless like sometimes I'll do

1190
01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:56,480
like story stuff just for the 
story of the story. 

1191
01:09:56,480 --> 01:09:58,720
But like, I'm probably not gonna
do challenge motels because 

1192
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:01,920
like, yeah, like I could, but 
like I. 

1193
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:04,200
Could offer cosmetic. 
It doesn't need to be power 

1194
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:05,640
though. 
It doesn't need to be power cuz 

1195
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:08,880
soon as you put power people get
really bent out of shape. 

1196
01:10:09,040 --> 01:10:11,920
Yeah, but it's not end game 
content if it doesn't offer and 

1197
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:15,320
like, like the and again, I, I, 
I hear you that maybe the the 

1198
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:18,240
differences aren't quite as big 
as I thought, but I think I 

1199
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:22,360
think being like, oh, no, you 
single, like solo players, you 

1200
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:23,400
guys. 
Yeah, you're not going to get 

1201
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:26,240
like gear out of it, but you can
keep doing it to higher levels. 

1202
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:28,240
Like, yeah, girl, we played 
alone anyway. 

1203
01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:30,280
Like we were used to not getting
gear out of this. 

1204
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:34,320
Like that's going to help me. 
But like, look at Mythic Plus, 

1205
01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:37,360
how many people will push way 
beyond the point where they're 

1206
01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:40,320
getting gear, right? 
Because they are like, they want

1207
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:42,440
to challenge themselves, they 
want a title, they want to 

1208
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:44,960
mount, they want portals, have 
power. 

1209
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:47,720
But like all the other stuff is 
so cosmetic, right? 

1210
01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:50,840
I'm not anti challenge mode for 
the people who want challenge 

1211
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:53,160
mode. 
I'm arguing the tell like like 

1212
01:10:53,320 --> 01:10:57,120
that single play, like solo 
players should be able to push 

1213
01:10:57,320 --> 01:11:00,640
for gear and benefits for 
longer, right? 

1214
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:02,480
That it shouldn't be like, well,
you get challenge mode like, 

1215
01:11:02,480 --> 01:11:03,600
yeah, like we're not going to 
give you gear. 

1216
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:05,360
You're not going to get anything
out of it, but you could do it. 

1217
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:08,560
You have challenge modes, right?
Like I, I, I hear you that 

1218
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:10,880
that's like I, I, I, I'm not 
saying that we should do away 

1219
01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:13,320
with challenge modes and delves 
because I don't do them. 

1220
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:17,480
I'm arguing for higher levels of
delves that do include gearing 

1221
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:22,400
and do include power and, and 
give me more to do as a solo 

1222
01:11:22,400 --> 01:11:24,360
player for a longer period of 
time. 

1223
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:26,440
And then they can go into 
challenge modes that I won't do,

1224
01:11:26,920 --> 01:11:30,680
you know? 
OK, I was thinking that you 

1225
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:35,360
would do your eights or elevens 
or whatever they say the cap is 

1226
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:38,600
for gear so that you could then 
push through the challenge modes

1227
01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:43,640
and get your like cosmetics and 
titles and stuff in the 

1228
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:46,400
challenge modes where it's like,
OK, I'm going to farm out my 

1229
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:50,760
like elevens and get it and get 
all those upgrades and get my my

1230
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:54,120
6 out of 6 heroic gear set up so
that now I can push through and 

1231
01:11:54,120 --> 01:11:58,960
do gold, gold heroic mode and 
get like my title. 

1232
01:11:59,080 --> 01:12:02,200
Hey, this was actually worth it 
of Alcatraz or whatever. 

1233
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:08,480
But like, yeah, like if if your 
cap is once I don't get any 

1234
01:12:08,480 --> 01:12:11,200
power out of it. 
It's not it's not something that

1235
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:15,600
I'm going to be put out to do. 
I think that's fine. 

1236
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:19,120
And I think that's sort of what 
the game has been heading 

1237
01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:21,760
towards for a while, ever since 
they're like, hey, you don't 

1238
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:23,400
need to do the story because 
we're not going to put power 

1239
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:25,240
into it. 
We're not going to put some new 

1240
01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:29,080
system into every patch that you
need to like work through. 

1241
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:33,200
The galaggio rewards thing 
that's in the raid is purely 

1242
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:36,840
through rating because in a, in 
a prior incarnation of the game 

1243
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:40,880
that would have been through 
doing all the stuff in, in the 

1244
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:42,360
undermine. 
So you'd be like, I've got to 

1245
01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:46,600
work on my my renowned track so 
that I get all this power in the

1246
01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:53,040
raid. 
So I think what you're saying is

1247
01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:57,000
healthy, especially since we 
began this episode with the oh, 

1248
01:12:57,000 --> 01:12:59,280
but I could be delving. 
I could be doing mythic plus, I 

1249
01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:00,360
could be doing all of this 
stuff. 

1250
01:13:00,480 --> 01:13:05,760
The fact that the delves aren't 
pushing you to go all the way to

1251
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:10,560
14 because you could be getting 
power in that conceit sounds 

1252
01:13:10,560 --> 01:13:16,280
healthy. 
But then why do those people who

1253
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:19,040
play with groups get power 
higher? 

1254
01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:21,960
This is my argument. 
I if I only want to play for 

1255
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:25,040
power, I should be able to get 
at least like roughly in the 

1256
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:29,560
same ballpark as the people who 
only want to play for power in 

1257
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:33,400
five player content or I I guess
to be fair, there isn't really a

1258
01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:38,080
a challenge mode in rating, but 
like I. 

1259
01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:40,080
This is a challenge mode. 
Right. 

1260
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:46,440
Well, no, but you, you get 
rewards for Mythic Manny the and

1261
01:13:46,440 --> 01:13:49,400
like I, I will say one thing 
that I'm learning through this 

1262
01:13:49,400 --> 01:13:52,480
conversation is I think that my 
sense of how skewed Delves were 

1263
01:13:52,480 --> 01:13:54,760
versus mythic plus is perhaps 
off. 

1264
01:13:54,960 --> 01:13:58,000
I do think it's skewed, 
especially because Delves cap 

1265
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:01,360
out at about the level where 
mythic plus begins, since it 

1266
01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:03,800
sounds like Delves cap out at 
about two. 

1267
01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:07,840
And that's like technically M0 
exists, but by and large, that's

1268
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:14,200
where mythic plus starts. 
But I we'll accept the argument 

1269
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:16,960
that to some extent I'm being 
unreasonable about how behind 

1270
01:14:17,200 --> 01:14:19,960
solo players are. 
I just think that solo players 

1271
01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:22,800
should be low. 
Like if, if at the very least, 

1272
01:14:22,800 --> 01:14:26,240
if we're going to say we have 
given solo players end game 

1273
01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:30,480
content, that end game content 
cannot be at the level that 

1274
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:34,120
multi like group players begin. 
You know what I'm saying? 

1275
01:14:34,880 --> 01:14:36,360
It's not. 
That's not end game content, 

1276
01:14:36,360 --> 01:14:39,320
that's mid game content like 
that beginning of the game 

1277
01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:44,280
content. 
Like, OK, like for for people 

1278
01:14:44,280 --> 01:14:48,360
pursuing power, I can see that 
that construction of it. 

1279
01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:52,840
And I would also say that like 
your impression of mythic plus 

1280
01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:58,200
is not out of thin air. 
It is because in season 1, the 

1281
01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:06,120
stuff that you were getting out 
of of end of end of dungeon, 

1282
01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:13,000
sorry, rather end of dungeon 7 
was about where you would end up

1283
01:15:13,080 --> 01:15:15,520
with delves. 
And so people were jumping from 

1284
01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:17,680
Delves right in the sevens and 
that was causing an issue. 

1285
01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:20,280
So they've clearly made that 
shift so that people aren't 

1286
01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:24,080
going from delves right into the
middle of of mythic plus. 

1287
01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:28,840
And I could, I could see why 
that is suddenly like jarring, 

1288
01:15:29,080 --> 01:15:33,320
jarring for you. 
But I'd like to list, I'd like 

1289
01:15:33,320 --> 01:15:36,960
to hear from the listeners, 
where do you think Delves should

1290
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:41,200
fit, both in terms of the 
rewards you should get from it 

1291
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:44,440
and also the difficulty that it 
should land? 

1292
01:15:44,440 --> 01:15:47,480
Do you think Season 2 is 
underpowered? 

1293
01:15:47,480 --> 01:15:50,240
Do you think that it should go 
further? 

1294
01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:53,600
Do you think that it should be 
closer to Season 1? 

1295
01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:58,640
And again, let us know. 
Join the discord at bit dot LY 

1296
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:02,840
slash fast discord. 
And until next week, guys, may 

1297
01:16:02,840 --> 01:16:03,920
all your hits be quits.