1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,840 Happy New Year from all of us at Farazzarov. 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:08,080 We have a couple of episodes that are going to be starting 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,480 off the new year, so you're going to see episodes on off 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,920 days as well as the normal days of Thursday releases. 5 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:19,600 So check back and you will see such stuff from a number of 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,080 people from the Warcraft community as well as the Prime 7 00:00:23,080 --> 00:00:26,680 episode. For Lordaron, for the Karen 8 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:28,880 tour. For. 9 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:37,560 Pandaria for Calendar to the burning region for Gilnaeus, but 10 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:43,680 has not died for the Lich King. For the. 11 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:50,600 Sindora for the Alliance for the Horn for Azeroth. 12 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,640 Hello and welcome to another special episode of Four Azeroth. 13 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:57,360 I'm Sean, one of the Co hosts of the show. 14 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:01,720 I'm here as always with Manny and a very special 3rd guest 15 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:06,000 today, the Augmentation guide writer for Wowhead, the one and 16 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,440 only Jericho. Jericho, thanks for being here. 17 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,960 Thanks for having me. We are going to sit down today, 18 00:01:11,960 --> 00:01:14,560 so augmentation has been a hot topic since it came into the 19 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,680 game. In was it 10 point 2.5? 20 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,800 I believe it's 10 point 1.5 so it was the the middle patch of 21 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,400 season 2 of Dragonflate. Yeah, and it came in, hit the 22 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:28,240 ground running, made a big splash. 23 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,440 We're going to get Jericho's opinions on how Ogg has been 24 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:33,960 since its inception and where it's going in the future. 25 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,800 Why don't we start with just maybe give a brief rundown of 26 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,440 what augmentation does and how it first came into the game? 27 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,960 Oh boy, so how how absolutely exciting to be talking about 28 00:01:45,960 --> 00:01:48,960 augmentation and how it's kind of come along all this way. 29 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:53,920 So augmentation first came into the game halfway through season 30 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,400 2 of Dragonflight. And the best way to kind of 31 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,920 think about that is OK, the race to world first has ended. 32 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:05,440 We're well into kind of farm for rating groups, but the mythic 33 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:07,120 plus scene is still going strong. 34 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:11,480 So there's a lot of, you know, still jockeying for that top 1%, 35 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:15,080 the latter, that sort of thing. So the biggest impact that 36 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,400 augmentation had when it first hit was in Mythic Plus. 37 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:23,240 And it goes without saying that augmentation was pretty damn 38 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:29,000 strong when it first hit. In fact, augmentation has got 39 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:33,480 hit with nerfs pretty much every single major patch since then, 40 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:38,960 and it's still in every group in Mythic plus at the very top end 41 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:44,240 and still very strong in raid, especially in the hands of some 42 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:45,920 of the top guilds. And that's something we can kind 43 00:02:45,920 --> 00:02:49,920 of talk about as well. But when the spec first hit, we 44 00:02:49,920 --> 00:02:54,920 had these hilarious videos of 30 augmentations in a raid, buffing 45 00:02:54,920 --> 00:02:58,280 two death Knights and just killing bosses in 10 seconds. 46 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:03,440 We, you know, just absolutely ridiculous stuff in terms of 47 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,400 the, the scaling. And through time, Blizzard's 48 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,680 gone. OK, we're gonna hopefully peel 49 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:10,560 that back to more reasonable levels. 50 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,320 Let's try and get the damage in check and that sort of thing so 51 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,680 that, you know, we're, we're not running thirty of these in, in a 52 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,520 raid. One of the biggest changes 53 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,000 initially in in the rating setting was limiting you to two 54 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:28,080 buff targets essentially for your for your Evan Mites, or 55 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,880 rather, you can only receive 2 Eben might buffs. 56 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,080 So the sort of limited stacking the augmentations and raids. 57 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:41,200 And then as we've gone in mythic plus as well, the potency of a 58 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,960 lot of these buffs has been peeled back a lot. 59 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:48,640 So I, I actually pulled some numbers for a while had article 60 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,440 that I put together and remembering this is hilarious. 61 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:57,560 Eben Might when it first came in was a 10% stat buff that gained 62 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:03,520 an additional 40% when when in sort of a solo situation or in 63 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:07,200 in M plus because of that clutch of sorry closest clutch mates 64 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,080 buff, right? So this thing was giving 14% 65 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,160 main stat in in these M plus groups. 66 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,800 Also we had black atunement, right, which was basically this 67 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:22,880 big health aura like you know, fortitude giving 5% health as as 68 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,360 being pretty strong Black atunement if you popped Obsidian 69 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,960 scales was giving you 16% maximum health for the duration 70 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,400 of that buff absolutely insane right. 71 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,640 So all of this stuff has kind of come back and in, in many 72 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,320 different ways. And in addition, it's kind of 73 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:40,600 been hammered all over the place. 74 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,480 So frankly, 1 of augmentation's biggest strengths and continues 75 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,440 to be the case is that it has a lot of buttons there. 76 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,800 There are just a lot of different ways that it interacts 77 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,240 with the group, that it controls, you know, mobs in a, 78 00:04:53,840 --> 00:04:56,000 in a mythic plus setting. And it just has a lot of 79 00:04:56,280 --> 00:05:00,800 different sort of support and utility options. 80 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,760 And it's it's been kind of a multi layered thing to kind of 81 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,920 get a lot of those things in into check for fragmentation 82 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,400 since then. So to get a little bit of 83 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:14,560 perspective where we are now in 11 point O or you know, point O 84 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:19,640 seven, however you want to look at it, Ebenmite is now 5% main 85 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:23,520 stat closest clutch mates is gone, which means that it's 86 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,840 Ebenmite is just as effective in raid as it is in mythic. 87 00:05:26,840 --> 00:05:32,080 Plus black atonement has been nerfed so much that we basically 88 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,480 don't even run it anymore. For the most part, it's the the 89 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,040 2% Max health that we get from it. 90 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:39,640 You're almost better off just putting those points somewhere 91 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,840 else. And frankly, when it comes to 92 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,840 you know, augmentations placed in the meta, it's still 93 00:05:48,840 --> 00:05:51,600 considered to be, you know, strong enough from a damage 94 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,360 standpoint to be brought to these mythic plus groups. 95 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:59,600 When we look at Raid for example, interestingly not part 96 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,320 of every composition in the mythic race, the world first, 97 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,200 but was absolutely included on a few key bosses towards the end. 98 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:12,680 And in this case, Evoker was absolutely well represented. 99 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,400 It's just that Preservation and Devastation were particularly 100 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:20,280 strong this time. We had 4-5 plus Evokers in on 101 00:06:20,280 --> 00:06:22,640 pretty much each kill, especially towards the end. 102 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,280 It's just augmentation was either better or worse than 103 00:06:25,280 --> 00:06:30,280 devastation in in certain spots. So Long story short and happy to 104 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,160 dive in on on any one of those topics in in a little more 105 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,040 detail, but this spec started strong. 106 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:40,560 It's seen a lot of kind of changes in nerf since then. 107 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:46,880 Right now it's still in a pretty good spot and the changes going 108 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:51,720 into 11.1 are meaningful, substantial, but not, I wouldn't 109 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,360 say, the death of this spec in any meaningful way. 110 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:56,840 Not yet. We won't say that yet. 111 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:58,480 Maybe by the end? Of the episode. 112 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,280 Manny, you are a longtime wild player, obviously more years 113 00:07:03,280 --> 00:07:07,360 than you'll care to admit. You play mainly as DPS when 114 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:11,680 augmentation, the very first ever and the date only support 115 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,520 spec was introduced to Warcraft. How did you feel about it? 116 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,400 Did you? Did you welcome Ogg with open 117 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:23,280 arms or were you hesitant? I was hesitant, but not because 118 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:27,880 of Aug itself, but because Aug was the only buff class put in 119 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:31,600 that. It's such a big change to find a 120 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,400 place for something that the game has never supported before. 121 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,440 And based on how it's been going, they're still trying to 122 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:43,680 find the exact place for it. So Aug itself, I was like, yeah, 123 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:45,880 OK, we're going to see changes. It's got, it's going to have 124 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:49,840 growing pains, which it's had, but I was expecting that with 125 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:54,560 the War Within, with the hero talents, I was expecting some 126 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:59,960 other classes to start going into that that role so that Ogg 127 00:07:59,960 --> 00:08:03,120 would have some competition that they could really carve out a 128 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:05,800 niche for it. But they decided not to do that. 129 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:10,200 And I think that's the biggest issue with Ogg is that they want 130 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,680 it to be viable. They want it to have a place, 131 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,640 but if that place becomes mandatory, then everything is 132 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:18,640 Ogg and that screws up their classroom representation. 133 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,400 So they've really put themselves in a hard place in my opinion. 134 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:26,720 Maybe we need some totem, totem twisters, seal seal, throwers on 135 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:31,760 paladins and and shamans just to say OK people need to have the 136 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,039 buff class, but at least it doesn't always have to fall on 137 00:08:34,039 --> 00:08:36,919 this one class. Also the one thing I hate about 138 00:08:36,919 --> 00:08:40,679 Ogg Earthshield looks crappy compared to what they gave 139 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:42,440 augmentation. Come on, it's. 140 00:08:43,159 --> 00:08:43,760 True. It's true. 141 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:45,800 They. Absolutely nailed it. 142 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:47,640 Sorry with the visuals for this spec. 143 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,360 It is the newest class to the game and it shows. 144 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,040 The visuals are fantastic. Yeah, yeah, it is beautiful. 145 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,560 So I wanna touch on community feedback now. 146 00:08:57,560 --> 00:08:59,400 We're hesitant. I say we man. 147 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,280 He's always hesitant to use the term the community as a giant 148 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:04,960 all-encompassing entity. I love to do it because I'm a 149 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:06,960 big fan of paint brushes and generalizations. 150 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,880 Jericho, can you tell us how was like what was the community 151 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:14,760 sentiment on Ogg when it was released and up until right now? 152 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:20,440 Yeah, I'm going to also agree that the community at large is a 153 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,600 bit of a difficult term to use in this case. 154 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,760 And as, again, as, as the writer for Wowhead, I get the, I have 155 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,400 the pleasure of reading these fantastic comments on all of 156 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,760 these articles that we post, which is just fantastic. 157 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:39,000 I'll, I'll try and summarize in, you know, in in a pretty 158 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,760 straightforward way what I think different segments of the 159 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:43,920 community look like and what that kind of means. 160 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,840 First off, just by design, the way that the spec has been 161 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,760 implemented and by virtue of how it interacts with other 162 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:57,160 characters in in your groups and in your raids, necessarily right 163 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:01,240 now is going to have a very different impact for different 164 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,640 players of different skills and different sort of points. 165 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:09,520 The game necessarily by way of buffing other characters, you 166 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,360 rely on the scale of your allies to sort of boost your your 167 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:14,840 damage output and your effectiveness. 168 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:20,280 There's that aspect, but there's also this aspect of sort of 169 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:24,680 being able to recognize, for example, how to move your buffs 170 00:10:24,680 --> 00:10:28,280 between different players in a raid setting, which is a huge 171 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:32,320 part of how Ogg is sort of most effectively played in a raid. 172 00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:35,160 That's changed a little bit more recently, but by and large, 173 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:39,480 still fundamental. And then also just the simple 174 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:41,960 fact that so much of what all brings to the table is in the 175 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,800 form of this utility, this crowd control, the box that it brings 176 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,920 to the group. It's it's stuff that as maybe a 177 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:53,160 more casual damage dealer, you know, DPS player, you might not 178 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:55,120 think about all the time, especially if you're just kind 179 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:56,480 of blasting through keys just for fun. 180 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,320 You're not necessarily pushing. You're just like, I'm going to 181 00:10:58,320 --> 00:10:59,880 push my damage buttons and be done right. 182 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:07,680 So when it comes to all of that augmentation, if played just for 183 00:11:07,680 --> 00:11:12,320 its damage isn't really right now anyway, especially anything 184 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,360 particularly special. But once you layer on all of 185 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,800 these different sort of effects, the way that it buffs your tank 186 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,760 and your healer, the way that it brings all of these control 187 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,760 options, you have Tail Swipe, Wing Buffett, Oppressing Roar, 188 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,520 you know, Landslide, all these damage reduction buttons like 189 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:30,960 Zephyr. You know, you have spatial 190 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,360 paradox for your healer. I've got a fun list on the side 191 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:38,120 here just to just remind me just in case, but the list goes on, 192 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:42,440 right? So really what I think a lot of 193 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,160 where, where a lot of the dissonance is, is in, in terms 194 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,280 of community reception and that sort of thing is recognizing 195 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:53,000 what aspects of the spec are, you know, really valued by the 196 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,800 the top players in terms of, you know, why they're bringing them 197 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,480 to groups versus why the average player might want to play this 198 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:02,840 spec. So I've seen a lot of different 199 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:05,240 opinions on augmentation as we go. 200 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:10,960 There's a pretty, I, I would say I, I don't want to say, you 201 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:15,080 know, uninformed, but maybe just less interested in a productive 202 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,560 discussion where, you know, it's just, hey, you know, delete the 203 00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:20,440 spec. This thing's no good failed 204 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:25,080 experiment, that sort of thing. That that's one that hits close 205 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,040 to home because for me, I, I think this has been a very 206 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:31,800 valiant experiment, so to speak to, to sort of bring 207 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,840 augmentation in as the first and I would say sorry, support 208 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:40,640 oriented damage dealer. Really by and large, if there 209 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,400 was any hope of calling this thing a support spec, they've 210 00:12:43,560 --> 00:12:46,200 moved away from that as much as possible, especially more 211 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,720 recently. It's, if anything, they've been 212 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:54,680 moving away from this spec that brings a ton of just crazy 213 00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:57,680 utility and, and really try and focus on, on the damage more 214 00:12:57,680 --> 00:13:02,680 than anything. And I think the community 215 00:13:02,680 --> 00:13:04,720 reception has really shaped a lot of that. 216 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,840 I, I had a similar sort of thought to to many that if there 217 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,360 was appetite for it, especially in terms of design and, you 218 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,200 know, community feedback and that sort of thing, that the 219 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,760 hero talents would have seen a lot more sort of support 220 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:22,400 elements brought in to give players of other classes the 221 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:24,040 option to play those sorts of things. 222 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:30,760 And my personal opinion, my hot take on the matter is that the 223 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:36,080 wells sort of got poisoned by the specific implementations of 224 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,720 some of those that we saw in in the beta. 225 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,000 We saw the light force Paladin, for example, which dropped the 226 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,600 the weapons on the ground that you, you know, were supposed to 227 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:46,600 have your team go and pick up and that sort of thing. 228 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:51,040 And then we had the first cut of Oracle for healer priest, which 229 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,240 frankly was just not a very good implementation of what something 230 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,280 like that could be. And that's sort of the thing 231 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,640 that makes me the most sad at the end of the day is I do see a 232 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:05,360 world where, you know, having a, you know, having one of the five 233 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,720 players in an M plus situation, for example, be a support 234 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,520 oriented spec makes a ton of sense. 235 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,920 Where you know, OK, maybe you're giving up a bit of direct damage 236 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,760 or healing to bring a lot of this extra utility to the group 237 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,960 in in different ways and in creative ways, frankly. 238 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:25,600 But I think the overwhelming feedback that Blizzard received, 239 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:29,480 especially in in the beta for the War within was we don't like 240 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,000 what you've suggested here for these hero talents. 241 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:33,720 We'd rather something more conventional. 242 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,640 And I think that really scared the development team in the big 243 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,400 way from doubling down on support classes going forward, 244 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,640 which is, which is a shame because frankly, I, I adore the 245 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,840 idea of, you know, a less conventional, but more support 246 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:53,360 oriented character ultimately. And, you know, that's bringing 247 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,760 something different than just pure damage, pure healing, that 248 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,720 sort of thing. But as it stands, you know, 249 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:03,200 having augmentation as a role that brings just as much damage 250 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,680 as any other spec, if not more, depending on the meta. 251 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:07,800 And then also all of these other tools. 252 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,160 Yeah, that's probably a little bit unhealthy. 253 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:14,960 If you want a an M plus meta, for example, that has broad 254 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,040 representation of a lot of different specs. 255 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:21,080 I, I, I think that's at least the sentiment that most people 256 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:26,480 can agree on is if this spec brings so much to the table and 257 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,080 it feels like it's locked in, that really restricts your 258 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,240 ability to make viable compositions at the end of the 259 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,120 day. And that's, that's I think where 260 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,480 a lot of the the conservation has come from, especially at the 261 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:41,680 top end. Seeing Blizzard be hesitant to 262 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:46,880 implement more support style classes or specs, is there any 263 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:51,520 concern among augmentation enthusiasts that they will 264 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,440 eventually start to shift augmentation away from support 265 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:56,960 and that it will become a purely DPS spec? 266 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,000 Well, I think that's if anything, a fear that we've been 267 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,000 seeing manifest a little more recently. 268 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:07,200 And you know, as we kind of go through the war within into 269 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:11,680 Season 2 here, the, the elephant in the room in terms of the 270 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:15,760 biggest changes coming in 11-1 is that Eben might will no 271 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:20,280 longer affect tanks or healers. Ebenmite will purely be for the 272 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,840 benefit of the DPS players in, in the group and in the raid. 273 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,080 And for what it's worth, this is of course more impactful in 274 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:28,720 mythic plus setting than than raid. 275 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,480 It was frankly only very niche situations that you would ever 276 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,040 have plus a healer, Sorry, Ebenmite, a healer in in a raid 277 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:38,880 setting, for example. But what this does and, and I 278 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,680 want to be a little bit clearer that it it it, it does not 279 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:49,120 completely remove all of augmentations buffing power on 280 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:54,280 tanks of healers, so to speak. In fact, blistering scales for 281 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,920 tank armor is absolutely still there. 282 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,560 It still gives a, you know, a few points of damage reduction 283 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:04,400 by way of armor source of magic, which many of ochre brings or 284 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:08,359 well, devastation and and augmentation both bring is a 285 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:10,400 significant source of healing for the group as well. 286 00:17:10,839 --> 00:17:13,400 And Eben might in its most recent iteration. 287 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,040 That's just 5% main style for the tank and the healer. 288 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,319 Taking that away, it's not necessarily the end of the 289 00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:23,920 world. It's not, you know, like maybe 290 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,920 as big of a game changer for for the entire group as as some of 291 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:32,360 the Aug haters, for example, might have hoped for. 292 00:17:32,360 --> 00:17:37,200 But I mean, and, and that's not to say that healers won't notice 293 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,960 it, they probably will notice a a 5% cut here or there. 294 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:47,520 But essentially what this change does, and coupled with the 295 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:51,800 closest clutch mates sort of buffed back up to 25%, is it 296 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,720 does move that throughput from the tanks and healers back into 297 00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:01,560 the DPS players as a combination of augmentation's own damage and 298 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,080 the other DPS players in the group. 299 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:08,280 Essentially, we are moving away from, you know, the additional 300 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,280 throughput for the tank and the additional throughput for the 301 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,760 healer and really just focusing back on damage. 302 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,560 And this has been pretty consistent with a lot of the 303 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:18,720 nerves that that we've seen over the last bit. 304 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,680 And that's not to say that it's not warranted because it 305 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,800 probably is if augmentation's going to be the only spec that, 306 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,120 you know, can do these things and still bring, you know, 307 00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:32,080 enough damage to be competitive. But it is pretty clear to me 308 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:37,120 that, you know, OK, in its current form, they're they're 309 00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:42,240 really trying to maybe narrow the gap between the additional 310 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:46,040 utility that augmentation brings versus other more traditional 311 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,520 DPS specs. I mean, if we think of utility 312 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,880 in the way of throughput that that other specs bring, we think 313 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,480 of priest with power infusion, which frankly, anytime you can 314 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,040 put a priest in your group in mythic plus, you absolutely try, 315 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,600 whether it's, you know, discipline or holy priest as the 316 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,360 healer or if you can bring a shadow priest. 317 00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:06,280 Awesome mages have been, you know, popular forever since 318 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,040 usually they do a ton of damage, but also arcane intellect has 319 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,920 been incredibly strong to, you know, benefit healers as well. 320 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,240 The God comp that we saw towards the end of, you know, 321 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,440 Dragonflight bringing both was, you know, a perfect example of 322 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:23,520 just that, that synergy where you know, OK, you've got the 323 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:27,280 power infusion plus arcane intellect plus Ebenmite, all of 324 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:31,920 these things working in tandem. It but also, but you know, not, 325 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:36,120 not any one of those specs necessarily not pulling their 326 00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:38,640 own weight, right. Like, I, I would argue 327 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:40,840 absolutely that power infusion is a support ability. 328 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,160 These raid buffs and having them in mythic plus, for example, are 329 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,040 also support abilities. Absolutely, they're very 330 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,440 passive, but hey, it's it's utility, right. 331 00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:54,200 So while augmentation has just an absolutely crazy laundry list 332 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,640 of of different buttons and different things that benefit 333 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:01,680 the group, it it, it is pretty clear to me that until we see a 334 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,240 little more experimentation in the form of a new class or a new 335 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,760 spec or some enhancement to these hero talent trees or what, 336 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,080 it seems like they are really trying to peel back on on the 337 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,560 support aspects of augmentation. Push it a little more in the way 338 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,120 of damage, at the very least to try and narrow that gap a little 339 00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:24,120 bit. I don't think it's at least for 340 00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:28,520 the foreseeable future. It's still quite a crazy kit in 341 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,200 terms of all the things that it brings, but but I definitely 342 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,600 would say that that's the direction that that it's been 343 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:38,200 heading, so to speak. So I'd I'd like to ask you if 344 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:44,640 augmentation didn't have the the buff to DPS and could opt to 345 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,440 instead throw it on on the tank and healers, right? 346 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:52,720 So you can choose to either buff the damn DPS or buff the tank 347 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,960 and the healer, right? That's a I think a big problem 348 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,720 with with lining up augmentation is that it brings everything to 349 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:01,800 the table and it's like, what can you leave off the table? 350 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,520 So if you had to make that sacrifice, would that ever be a 351 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,160 sacrifice that augmentation players or theory crafters would 352 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,240 ever consider worth it? Or is it just that DPS just 353 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,160 rules everything at this point? Well, when, when was the last 354 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,600 time that we've had a meta, for example, where we've been like, 355 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,160 OK, what if we could run 2 healers in mythic plus, right? 356 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,240 What if we ran like 2 discipline priests and just, you know, went 357 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:24,640 nuts with power infusion, that sort of thing. 358 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:30,840 Like I, I would say in general, and, and this is just my, my 359 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,440 naive view, I'm not necessarily, you know, a, a crazy key pusher 360 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,280 or anything like that. But to me, the sentiment that 361 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:40,440 I've I've seen through time is the the meta in the community, 362 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:46,840 so to speak, seem to prefer when damage is king, when your damage 363 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,200 throughput dictates whether or not you succeed in the key. 364 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,080 And that it's not, you know, oh, we're getting overwhelmed by 365 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,760 incoming damage that we have to, you know, have all these crazy, 366 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,240 you know, sort of like stacking defensives and making sure that 367 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,320 we can survive every single like incoming ability. 368 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,080 And that, you know, it's not that you're worried about timing 369 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:07,840 the key, but you're worried about surviving hits. 370 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:09,640 It. It seems to me that players 371 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,920 prefer when damages the the sort of when, when, when damage 372 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,040 throughput is sort of the the limiting factor, right. 373 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,480 And as long as that's the case, and again, this is a very M plus 374 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,520 sort of focused, you know, point. 375 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:25,000 But I think as long as that's the case, Blizzard is going to 376 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,200 continue to sort of design in that direction, which is to say, 377 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:33,720 OK, players really try and do as much damage as possible and, you 378 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,040 know, healing and survivability or that sort of thing, or a bit 379 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:40,400 more of a checkbox exercise. And that's really, I, I think 380 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,720 that's driven a lot of the community reception through 381 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:43,880 time. I think that's driven a lot of 382 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,680 design through time. And we, we do see it in terms 383 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,760 of, you know, compositions in the meta and that sort of thing. 384 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,320 For example, when you can bring a pallet and tank to the group 385 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,880 and they're doing all this crazy off healing, that sort of thing, 386 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:58,520 you're happy to have them, right? 387 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,520 They're, they're absolutely contributing to the success of 388 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,440 the group. But that's not usually your 389 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,160 first thought. Your first thought is, OK, 390 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,400 what's, what's the tank that's gonna, you know, succeed in 391 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,120 these, you know, huge crazy 5 pack pulls that we're trying to 392 00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:13,840 do without falling over and that's, you know, also 393 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,200 contributing a substantial amount of damage and, and that 394 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:21,360 sort of thing, right? So I think by and large, it's an 395 00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:23,560 interesting thought to say, OK, you know, what if we had a 396 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,160 version of augmentation that was more focused on the tanker 397 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,000 healers, right? And, and would that be an 398 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:33,520 interesting, you know, choice, for example, to, to bring 399 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:36,440 perhaps in a rate setting right there? 400 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,600 I mean, I could see a world where, and, and it's a little 401 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,920 bit difficult there as well, because most encounters are 402 00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:46,040 balanced around, you know, specifically 2 tanks on on that 403 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,520 side of things. But you can imagine a world 404 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,360 where, hey, I have a third character that's like kind of 405 00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:54,360 beefy and is able to like off tank some ADS or something every 406 00:23:54,360 --> 00:23:58,840 once in a while or that has, you know, just a few extra externals 407 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,080 to keep the tanks alive in, in crazy moments, right. 408 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,360 And healing's always interesting because healing is the situation 409 00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:07,320 where sort of towards the beginning of the tier, you need 410 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,720 a lot of it. As farm goes on, you need less 411 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,200 of it and you focus more on damage and kill times and that 412 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,720 sort of thing. But there are moments where, and 413 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,560 this comes down to tuning and how hard you're you're pushing 414 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,520 and that sort of thing. But in in the race to world 415 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,920 first, for example, augmentation has every once in a while had 416 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,400 moments where you might want to put Ebenite on healers. 417 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,720 And again, very niche. But but you you know, we're in a 418 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,960 position where you might do that just just to give the healers 419 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,040 that extra, you know, 510% throughput for that one moment. 420 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,920 And then you go back to the to the the DPS, right. 421 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,600 And so having a spec that that could do that right or go I'm 422 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,600 going to buff this healer right now and then this healer and 423 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,440 that sort of thing. Yeah, absolutely. 424 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,120 It's a it's an extension or, or you know, an an interesting 425 00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:55,040 design idea, certainly. But I do think the game is 426 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,200 personal anyway, just more designed around the the damage 427 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,400 question in general. So that that's kind of an 428 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,520 interesting thought for sure. So if if the survivability 429 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,880 through healing and tanking is so binary where it's like it's 430 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,680 good enough move on to DPS, how do you how does like 431 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:20,080 augmentation like work with that if not focused on the DPS beyond 432 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,840 good enough to survive? Let's get the numbers. 433 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,640 Well, and, and again, I, I do think this is where Blizzard 434 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,640 might have designed themselves into a bit of a corner here 435 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,480 where and, and I, I don't think this will be shocking to anyone. 436 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,720 But I mean, at the, at the end of the day, if you have one 437 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:41,800 speck that brings, you know, again, sufficient damage to earn 438 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:46,440 its place in the group, but is also just, you know, 439 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:50,200 automatically causing the tank to, you know, generate more 440 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,400 thread and have 5 percent, 10% more survivability and do more 441 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,040 damage. And the healer is doing the same 442 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,520 thing where, you know, maybe they can just cast a regular 443 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,880 spell instead of a cool down because they have that buff. 444 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,720 Right. When, when you have all of that 445 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,640 in play and you're the only spec that can do that. 446 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,400 And again, especially noticeable in mythic plus, you, you have 447 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,640 kind of solidified a spot for that character in, in that 448 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,600 group. I, I mean, I again, I, I love 449 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,960 the idea of support characters in, in Mmos in particular. 450 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,720 I'm like when, whenever I try a new MMO, I'm always sort of 451 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,000 going towards that support character first and foremost. 452 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,280 And it is a bit of a bummer to me that, you know, in, in World 453 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,920 of Warcraft, OK, I'm either playing a direct damage dealer 454 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,640 or I'm playing a healer, right? But there there isn't really 455 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,480 something in the middle that you know, that that I can that I can 456 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:48,040 choose that does a little bit of both, unless in this case I'm, 457 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,400 you know, I'm playing this one spec that brings more than maybe 458 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,600 one slots worth of of utility. At least that's how it largely 459 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,160 was at the end of Dragonflight. And so it like in, in terms of 460 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,320 its current state and especially going into 11 one, I, I think it 461 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,480 is in a much sort of, I would say healthier state in terms of, 462 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,280 you know, do you need one in your group? 463 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,720 I would say largely, a lot of players will probably look at 464 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:15,200 everything by and large and go, OK, I don't need Warren Stone 465 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,040 because we're not doing any weird tech. 466 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:21,440 I don't need rescue because I'm actually not like that confident 467 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,160 in my ability to use twin guardian. 468 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,800 Well anyway, so maybe I don't care too much about that. 469 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,680 And you know, hey, yeah, I really do want to bring my my 470 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,280 shadow priest because Pi on this enhancement shaman would be 471 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,960 nuts, right? So like by and large, players 472 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,000 might decide, you know, hey, I, you know, they're just no longer 473 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:44,000 is enough on the throughput side of things that, you know, hey, 474 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,280 maybe I can experiment a little more. 475 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,720 But the biggest thing ultimately to to me when it comes to 476 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,640 augmentation and why it gets this big of a wrap, I think 477 00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:00,520 personally is this idea of kind of agency and the way that the 478 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:01,960 buffs are felt. OK. 479 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,640 And then this is something that we don't necessarily talk about 480 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:09,720 a lot, but when I am a shadow priest player and I just have my 481 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,440 1, you know, power infusion that I put on people, I have my 482 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,680 passive fortitude and then I'm just doing damage the rest of 483 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,440 the time. No one's really looking at that 484 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,920 and going like, you know, for, for example, Wow, that that 485 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,520 shadow priest is is making all the difference in terms of 486 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,560 whether or not, you know, we succeed this key. 487 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,440 The healer is not going like, oh shit, you know, I've got this 488 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,520 buff on me and I'm doing more now, right? 489 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,400 And then especially when it comes to to tanking, for 490 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,200 example, it, you know, you might have a, a priest in your group 491 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,520 and everyone has more, more health, or you have a major 492 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,160 group and everyone has slightly more, more main stat. 493 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,960 But the fact that Ogg has these buffs and they're, they're 494 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,320 active and that you're like, you know, pressing buttons and 495 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,440 that's causing, you know, players to, to have more 496 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,320 throughput. They, they, it's almost 497 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,120 psychological, but you almost just feel it more when, when 498 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,840 this, this spec exists and, and is doing this stuff. 499 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,800 So I, I do think by and large, the, the changes that are, that 500 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,560 are coming are going to even the playing field a little more, 501 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:08,880 especially in terms of perception. 502 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,360 And then hopefully by then players will realize like, OK, 503 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,440 this back is, is pretty neutral in damage. 504 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,120 We can, you know, we can live or with or without it, It has very 505 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,000 specific utility. So if you know, if I really need 506 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,320 to be able to do this or that, great. 507 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,120 It still has a lot of, you know, different crowd control options 508 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,800 and God cauterizing flames super useful. 509 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,000 Like, you know, just the the list goes on in terms of all 510 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,080 these different buttons, but you might decide, hey, I don't need 511 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,760 that, right? And, and I, I do think at the 512 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,560 very least in terms of this, this design pit that, that I 513 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,720 think we've kind of ended up in where if we're not gonna make 514 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,360 more of these things, then they should kind of still exist in 515 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,840 the DPS paradigm. I think they're at least moving 516 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,960 in, in a way where it can live a little healthier in, in, in the 517 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,680 world of DPS specs, so to speak. And again, it's a bit of a 518 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,120 bummer for me. Like, I, I love the idea of, you 519 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,920 know, hey, we'd have like support characters that are 520 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,800 doing cool stuff. It just doesn't seem like that's 521 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,600 where we're at right now anyway. Or at least, you know, there 522 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,280 doesn't seem to be a lot of appetite at the moment. 523 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:18,360 Yeah, in, in infinitely. Scaling content like M plus you 524 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,680 have two options. You're either the you get to a 525 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,200 point where you can't kill the mobs fast enough because they 526 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,520 have so much health to time the key, or you get to a point where 527 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,080 the damage they do is so overwhelming, you die and you 528 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,440 can't time the key. And that's we're currently in 529 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,000 that state and we've been there since that's August launched, 530 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,960 where the deciding factor is there's too much damage. 531 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,400 We need more defensives. And as long as we're in that, 532 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:47,320 that design world, augmentation is going to be needed at the top 533 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:51,160 level keys forever because people are sheep. 534 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,320 It will trickle down and we'll be running them in our sevens, 535 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,160 but if we switch to the other, if we switch to the point where 536 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,720 OK, what the deciding factor now is can we do enough DPS to kill 537 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,120 these mobs to time the key as opposed to can we survive? 538 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,240 Are you worried about augmentations place in the game 539 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:13,400 as because devastation typically is tuned for more damage. 540 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,960 Well, I would say before you tacked on that last little bit 541 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:23,080 at the end, yeah, I mean it it it all hit both when it comes to 542 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,720 augmentation and how it looks sort of in a damage dealing 543 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,200 paradigm. It I I would say it's it's now 544 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:36,440 at a point where we can pretty safely say it depends Before I 545 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,880 would have said this thing brings 1 1/2 DPS players worth 546 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:42,240 of value. Of course you want it right, 547 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,720 That that was the the Dragonflight tuning angle and 548 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,760 we're we're past that. It's it's been nerfed to the 549 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:52,960 point where it it now depends. The current meta that we're in 550 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:57,440 right now, for example, where enhancement is just absolutely 551 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:04,200 nuts, lends itself very well to augmentation coming in, buffing 552 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,080 the enhancement, the enhancements getting Pi and from 553 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:12,880 the healer in this case mostly, and the occupations coming in. 554 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,720 And also, you know, you've got your shifting sans buffer, more 555 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,320 versatility. You've got your Eben might, 556 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,880 you've got your prescience for crit and then all these other 557 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,320 stacking buffs when when you're really leaning on this, this one 558 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,000 character and buffing that one character up to a tremendous 559 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,560 extent. It works very well, right? 560 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,560 It's, it's very well suited for, for that in, in terms of what's 561 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,360 coming up in 11-1 and sort of what that I think looks like 562 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,200 we're we're gonna see a little more damage on the Aug itself, 563 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,840 certainly a little less damage from tanks, healers and more on 564 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,960 the group. It's hard to say before we like 565 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,320 I have a good understanding of what the other specs are going 566 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:54,360 to bring to the table, but in a similar meta, so to speak, you 567 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,560 know, assuming you have specs like enhancement that are still 568 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,640 viable, augmentation absolutely can still kick it from a pure 569 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,640 damage standpoint. In fact, I, I would say right 570 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,360 now, it's, it's absolutely, you know, it's, it's competitive in, 571 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,320 in terms of the, the damage it brings. 572 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,600 And largely, I mean, when, when you compare to devastation, for 573 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,640 example, devastation has struggled for a long time in 574 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:22,360 terms of just the fact that it, and, and it's, it's crazy 'cause 575 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:26,200 it, it was this for a while, but it really doesn't bring enough 576 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,560 burst damage in the way that you might hope for a mythic plus 577 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,000 situation. The dragon rage has turned into 578 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:39,200 this, you know, really like 42nd long sort of damage window and 579 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:43,000 and really there there are a couple aspects of of devastation 580 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,440 that that could work well in a particular setting. 581 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,840 You know, pyre is still uncapped, which is wild, but 582 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,360 using doing unethical amounts of damage to like, you know, 583 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,440 compare with some of these other specs like enhancement, like 584 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,680 frost. You know, I mean, even balance 585 00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,360 is doing really well in some of these keys, right. 586 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,040 So it's just been, you know, it's been something you can 587 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,200 enjoy in your 10s, elevens twelves, absolutely, and you 588 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,280 know, I play it from time to time in in those keys. 589 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,920 It it's not bringing anything special to the table beyond the 590 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:17,159 list of evoker utility to those top groups, especially when you 591 00:34:17,159 --> 00:34:19,679 have another character in the group that brings lust right, 592 00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:24,080 that sort of thing. So so devastation unfortunately 593 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:28,080 has has actually been a little lackluster in terms of its, you 594 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,760 know, inclusion in in mythic plus, especially it's very 595 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,800 strong in raid right now and it just has a very good damage 596 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:34,920 profile for a lot of these fights. 597 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,760 But when it comes to mythic plus, it's it's just a little 598 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,840 bit lacking and we'd probably hear a little more about it if 599 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:42,360 augmentation wasn't in every group. 600 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,480 I think that's sort of a a big thing as well. 601 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,639 It's not to say that every devastation player likes to play 602 00:34:48,639 --> 00:34:50,280 augmentation. In fact, that's, you know, a 603 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,000 little bit of a dividing point, I think for a lot of players as 604 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,280 well. But certainly what the situation 605 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,400 is right now is Evoker is in pretty much every top group. 606 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,520 It's being run as augmentation and it's well represented and 607 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,600 it's not purely in fact, it's almost not exclusively at all 608 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,120 for its its utility. It does enough damage to hang. 609 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:16,440 So when we come into 11 one, it's even more personal damage. 610 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,440 The tier set looks like it's going to sort of, you know, pile 611 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,320 on to the buttons that that augmentation hits and then does 612 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,480 more damage with. It's looking like it's gonna 613 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,640 have a crazy resource economy, which means basically permanent 614 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:31,560 uptime on a lot of these buffs and this sort of thing. 615 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,560 It looks, frankly, and we haven't tested it yet, but it 616 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,080 looks pretty wild right now. So looking at the immediate 617 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,560 future, yeah, it looks like augmentation will be fine. 618 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,480 In terms of damage. It's sort of up to where all of 619 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,680 the tuning lands. And if there aren't three other 620 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,680 DPS specs that outperform, right? 621 00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:53,560 And really, when when push comes to shove, then we're in a 622 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:58,440 position where we can say, OK, the side utility isn't game 623 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,840 breaking anymore. We are mostly looking at the 624 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,400 specs damage output. Yeah, I, I I think that's at 625 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:07,160 least it's a much easier place to balance from. 626 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,320 And I think a place where people trying to, you know, come up 627 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,960 with their group compositions by playing their favorite specs are 628 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,960 a lot more keen on going, OK, yeah, I can do more damage than 629 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,240 than if I were playing hogs. So let's try this and see if 630 00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:21,840 this works. So I mean, my, my, my $0.02 on 631 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,880 it are I think Ogg is in a good position to do good damage in 632 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,560 season 2. And I think the trend at least 633 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,880 looks like it'll continue to to do well, especially when you 634 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,160 have, you know, the ability to buff a crazy damage back like 635 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,000 enhancement. But I, I, I do think we're in 636 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,120 kind of a bit of a healthier paradigm, or at least a bit of a 637 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,760 return to form where we can kind of just hold them side by side 638 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,800 mostly on damage and then go, OK, do I, do I need the, the, 639 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:49,760 the extra utility? Do I need to be able to, you 640 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:51,320 know, throw a wearing stone in here? 641 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:55,880 Do I need, you know, do I need rescue shield to keep the healer 642 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:57,520 from dying on this hit? That sort of thing. 643 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,280 So yeah. This is where we asked the 644 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:05,520 experts for a well balanced, optimistic outlook as opposed to 645 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:10,000 the Twitter doomers who quickly announced Dog's demise. 646 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,560 Manny, I don't have any more questions for Jericho. 647 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,000 I could listen to him talk for hours, sometimes I do during 648 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,320 raid. He is very passionate about his 649 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,760 spec and in his class and I really enjoy it. 650 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:23,000 Do you have any questions left for him? 651 00:37:24,240 --> 00:37:26,520 Honestly, I think that we've pretty much covered it all at 652 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:28,440 this point. It is like looking towards the 653 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,560 future and speculation. So with 11.1 coming soon, 654 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:39,480 hopefully on the PTR within the next week, crossing fingers, I'm 655 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,720 looking forward to seeing where where Voker goes. 656 00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:44,680 And of course, you know, we're at a lot of enhancement shaman. 657 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,080 Let's hear more of that. Yeah, Jericho, if any of our 658 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,120 listeners want to get more of you directly pumped into their 659 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,600 veins, where can they find? You sure? 660 00:37:54,600 --> 00:38:02,440 So I, I've got a website, jericho.com, jereico.com and 661 00:38:02,720 --> 00:38:05,080 haven't updated in a while, but it should have all the links to 662 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,200 everything that you might care about like Twitch, YouTube, 663 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:13,720 Twitter and mainly Discord. I would say if you spend any 664 00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:17,600 time on Discord, you can join the, the little Jericho 665 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,680 community that we've got on there and get a hold of me 666 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,280 pretty easily. More than happy to talk about 667 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,840 Evoker, answer questions, have a good time and frankly, I could 668 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:32,280 again talk in excruciating detail of kind of any of these 669 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:34,760 different topics that we only kind of lightly touched on 670 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:40,600 today, but absolutely happy to have a good chat so you can find 671 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:42,240 me there. I actually lied. 672 00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:44,880 I do have one more question. Where does the name Jericho come 673 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,080 from? Are you just a big fan of Skeet 674 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,360 Ulrich TV shows? It's gonna kill me with 675 00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:52,600 references beyond my comprehension There. 676 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,400 It's an. Old TV he's, he's an actor, but 677 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,320 he was in an old TV show called Jericho. 678 00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,720 Absolutely. No, I'm, it's just one of those 679 00:39:01,720 --> 00:39:05,640 things, you know, are you, you're 13 years old and you're 680 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,560 like, damn, I'm gonna come up with a cool name for when I 681 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,160 spend time on the Internet. And that's where we landed. 682 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,800 That's why the the spelling makes no sense and why it 683 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,520 doesn't align with anything you've ever seen before. 684 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,200 So I dig it. I dig. 685 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,000 It all right Anyway, thanks for being here. 686 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:24,960 Thank you, all of our listeners for joining us. 687 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,080 And we'll see you in the next episode. 688 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:30,800 Until next time, may all your hits be Critz.