And I mean, Miss Sugar I think is not not stranger to these
things happening where things start off really bad.
Victory for the Forsaken for Lauderon, for the Kieran Tour,
for Pandaria for Calendar to the Burning Region for Gilneus or
Has not Died for the Lynch King for the.
Sindori for the Alliance for the.
Horn for Azeroth. Hello and welcome to another
episode of For Azeroth. I am one of your hosts, Benny,
and I am joined by a very special guest, the Master of the
Mist, the Weaver of all things healing.
We have Swirl, Swirl. How are you?
Hello, I'm doing well. How are you?
I'm doing OK. I'm doing OK.
For those of us that may not be familiar with your gifts, can
you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Yeah, sure. I am a Miss Weaver.
I'm a healer through and through.
I've been playing this game for so much of my life.
I started when I was a little kid just playing around with
Cataclysm. I was a tank at first really
funnily enough, but then picked up rest of Druid.
Mop came around. Miss Uber was the most fun spec
to play. So I started playing it back
then and on and off throughout the years.
You know as I got into college and had real life person person
things to do. Had to do that but just came
back to it kind of when had some more time and have been playing
ever since. It's been been a really fun
journey with the spec to say the least.
Well, I'm glad that you have had a fun journey with the spec and
the spec itself has had a bit of a journey.
I've played it on well, I've had it as an alt on and off
throughout its time. I jumped in in Mr. Pandaria when
it was the new hotness. I don't want to say the new
hotness because even in its debut there were some wrinkles
and then Blizzard decided that they weren't going to do fist
weaving. And now fist weaving is like the
new hotness. So Miss Weaver itself is is had
its own journey in terms of the war within.
How has Miss Weaver fared fared with these new hero talents and
throughout this expansion in the three tiers that we've had?
Yeah, I think All in all, I think hero talents for mystery
were pretty successful. I mean, I I don't know if this
was Blizzard's way to do it, but mystery were definitely had a
pretty clear split between its its hero talents, kind of one
for raid, one for M plus. You know, we had condo the
celestials for raid pretty much exclusively and then almost
exclusively master of Harmony for M plus, just kind of due to
the things that it did. Conduit of the celestials is
super good and at being very scalable.
I'll say, you know, we gained Cdr through heart of the jade
serpent just while having all of that.
And it works really well because renewing mist is something that
we heal through in raid and we just kind of have it going at
all times. So for us to be able to
capitalize off of that has been really good.
Doesn't work that great in M Plus just due to the way that
Miss Fever had fared with HE lamps.
If anybody's ever played Miss Fever, they know that he lamps
are super duper relevant just across the entire spec, which is
actually being removed in midnight that I'm very excited
about. But those HE lamps worked really
well for M Plus, which was kind of the basis of the tree of
Master of Harmony. Allow us to do a boatload of
damage and then also just supplement that with really,
really strong healing and kind of play around with both damage
and healing as a resource through this kind of pseudo
resource called vitality that just builds and spends as we're
playing the game essentially. So yeah, I mean, All in all, I
think it was pretty good. It's definitely here to stay.
I mean, our tier sets have been pretty good through this past
season as well that they got implemented, implemented onto
it. So yeah, I think pretty good for
hero talents. I mean, you mentioned this last
tier and the tier set, which seems to be such a hit, so much
so that as far as I'm aware it got put into the hero talents
for Midnight. Is that the case?
Yeah, it got a little bit of a rework with the Heart of the
Jade Serpent stuff with the Cdr that had additional benefits on
it of Thunderfocus Tea procking it.
So just something that we do like every 30 seconds.
Anyways, that was changed away from, you know, one source where
we would cast Shalin's Gift and it changes via the stack count
that we have this spell away from, you know, that kind of
buff tracking mentality that that midnight is trying to get
away from just to get it to Thunder focus T we gain a bunch
of haste with it. That's always like multiplied by
our haste bonuses that we currently have.
And yeah, I mean, those are really good for the master of
harmony tier set. It is definitely in a lowered
state than it was on live on live is it?
It was a bit oppressive with the way that it worked, just the way
that you gained so many stacks of this buff called harmonic
surge and you really couldn't use them that much.
It didn't do enough healing to cover a lot of damage events,
but when you stacked every single multiplier that you had,
it does just enough for you. And it worked really well.
I mean for for people doing lower keys, it was just kind of
a spam tiger palm situation, which isn't super fun.
I I did not love that play style, but just in a reduced
state kind of added to our our new tree.
OK, well, I mean you've mentioned a number of things
that I think have been the target for pruning in midnight.
So let's talk about that that and the pruning that well, I say
pruning. I just said in the pre show that
I don't like that term and here I am using it.
But the streamlining. So things like those, those
healing ramps, things like the stacking of of buffs to get
something effective. How has Miss Weaver interfered
in terms of the reworks and the massive shifts that people will
start to see this coming week? Yeah, I mean, it's definitely a
lot. Masura has received quite a bit
of changes going into midnight. There's there's a lot of really
relevant ones. I mean, like I mentioned that HE
lamps have been removed. We had, oh God, we had so many
sources of HE lamps attached to it.
We had enveloping mist, we had a 20% that could be buffed to 40%
or sorry, 30 to 40%. We had Qi Harmony that was a 25
that was nerfed down from 50%. Lotus and Fusion brought 12%.
We had menning proliferation which just replicated your
enveloping mist HE lamps. So that basically 40% on to
anybody. The Master of Harmony tree had a
20% heel amp attached to it. I'm probably missing a couple
others, but I mean, there was a lot.
Yeah, exactly. I'm like looking at my fingers
trying to count them all. But yeah, I mean, all of those
are kind of gone, which is a really good change.
I mean, one thing that was a really major point of concern
was, you know, trying to teach people the spec and telling
them, you know, how the spec plays.
And it's like, OK, I have to apply all these heal amps in
order to do good healing. When do I have the time to do
this? What does my ramp look like?
And as a melee healer, those things are kind of difficult of
this balance between casting and, and pressing melee
abilities, which is a really common misconception that people
have with Miss Weaver, that it's like 1 or the other.
But it's not like we, we try and take fist weaving as a term away
now because it's not that right. Super reductive of, of a play
style that once was 10 years ago.
And it's just not really what happens anymore.
And it's just Miss Weaver, right?
It's it's no longer one way or the other.
But that like casting time, you know, it's, it's definitely a
bit hard. And melee is seen as like this
quick movement action. There's a bunch of things
happening in melee that you can move around frontal swirlies
like those things. And range doesn't really have
those types of things going on back there where you have to
move out constantly. So, you know, timing those
spells is really important. And thankfully those things are
kind of gone now, which I'm super excited about.
I think that it's still gonna be relevant in like let's say the
Super highest of keys because you really need that very strong
output at some case. But a lot of it has been been
super reduced. And I mean, just in terms of
things that are going on, there's, there's so many
multipliers, which is kind of a heel lamp in and of itself.
That has also been reduced. We had one called Invoker's
Delight that just gave us 20% haste whenever we called our or
invoked our Celestial. So more so a raid thing because
of the talents and kind of how we could have gotten talents
that way, but that's being removed.
Shaho's lessons, which I personally love, I wish was not
being removed. But it's kind of like the
cyclical buffing of just gaining a buff that does something for a
certain amount of time. And it's really fun.
I think it was really fun to play around choosing the right
one. You know, you either got haste
or crit or you doubled the amount of healing that you did
to somebody at a lower HP percentage.
But that kind of stacking of buffs is now gone.
So the gameplay is definitely a bit more streamlined.
I don't know if it was a good cost to it because our spells
are not really doing what they need to be doing at the moment.
A little worried for For Midnight, Miss Weaver, but yeah,
All in all, I think the changes have been fairly good.
Some better than others, but mostly pretty good.
I mean, we, we got to go into that.
So with the new reality of damage in midnight, we're
dealing with like less burst damage.
The damage of rot has been picked up, and so is that
challenging for Miss Weaver? Is that more in the current or
rather the upcoming midnight changes wheelhouse where you
know you're going to get the renewing miss, you're going to
be able to like keep people healthier through rot damage, or
how bad is it that the healing's falling behind in your eyes?
Yeah, I think, I mean, I'll be honest that like reduction of
burst healing, I haven't really seen all too much like I'm I I
haven't really done super many keys, but at the moment, but
just the ones that I've played, I mean, there's still so much
burst and dungeons that it does not feel great to heal at times
without the tools available that give me that burst healing.
I think that in raid also, like I, I have done the testing and
I, I don't see a difference. Maybe it's just because I'm, you
know, learning the encounter and I'm not really paying attention
to the damage patterns there, but I don't really see a major
difference in the way that healing is.
You know, you press your cooldown, you heal during your
cooldowns and things are normally fine.
Maybe a little bit of that kind of ticking damage and rot
damage. I I don't really foresee it
being a super big issue for miss Weaver.
I think we are definitely one of the better healers for rot, kind
of maybe not as good as resto druid.
They are like the king of rot healing, as you can see with
like Mdis where, you know, we have this really big rot boss
from, I forget her name, but from halls of infusion, that ice
boss or candle king that we just recently had.
I mean, Dark flame Cleft and I mean resto druid is insane at
those. And mystery falls behind a
little bit on it simply for the fact that we are melee.
Sometimes, you know, we lose melee up time and we lose a lot
of healing because of that. I don't really see that being
too, too big of an issue, but we've gotten some supporting
talents with renewing Myths, which is pretty cool.
We got one recently, which is a bit silly of a talent, but it's
a a the renewing Mist that's on your lowest health party member
heals for an extra 500% on them. A bunch of talents that increase
the healing of renewing mist. So hot wise, yeah, I definitely
think that, you know, those things are pretty good with the
enveloping mist nerf as well with the the the reduction of
its heel amp. Now it's just a 20% amp that
Hots healing has been increased by I think it was like 160% or
something. So Hots are super duper relevant
and I think that it'll be really no major struggle.
OK, I, I mean, you're talking about the different talents.
One one thing that is there is that you're able to, I believe,
cast miss as you're moving, but you get slowed down.
Now movement has been something I've seen a lot in the raids.
How is Miss Weaver handling movement with like the new setup
in midnight? Is it a is it a struggle or is
it something that Miss Weaver can, you know, roll with the
punches? Sorry about that joke.
Yeah, I mean, I mean, I think it'll definitely help a lot
because one of the major concerns was like that Miss
Reaver. So, you know, as I said, like
it's a melee spec, so trying to stay in melee while things are
going on and trying to get those casts off are very hard.
I I don't see it as like a major boon because, you know, maybe in
raid where we're casting a lot of vivifies as our main cast,
but NM plus there's a lot more than just kind of that vivify or
I guess now being replaced by Shaylin's gift whenever we're
talented into it. So just those two things are
pretty good. But you know, that doesn't stop
anything else. We have to get our like
maintenance buffs out. You know, renewing mist breaks
it. We have rising sun kick, which
breaks it. Rushing wind kick, same thing
breaks it pretty much anything else that we have to do outside
of vivify. Enveloping Mist and a life
cocoon, which for some reason is not on the tool tip anymore, but
it is something that does not break the soothing mist channel.
So allowing us to do that in raid is really good because
that's our main ones and plus not so much.
I don't really see it as a major benefit, but movement, I think
in general Misreaver has been pretty good with in the first
place. In Raid, you know, we have
instant cast basically all the time as you're moving through
things like you press rushing Wind Kick and then you have an
instant Vivify. So you get a few of those lined
up and prepared for that movement and it makes things
fairly smooth. It's not like Spirit Walker's
Grace or, you know, getting spatial from an Evoker that you
can't really get anymore because they take Time Spiral and Raid,
but still super possible. I don't.
I don't really see a big, big bad thing for Miss Weaver there.
OK, comparing Miss Weaver raid healing versus mythic plus, and
I know you haven't had much mythic plus on on the dungeon,
but just from like where the balance is right now are are
Miss Weavers scaling well in five man content versus the ten
20-30 people that you can have it in a raid?
Yeah, I think that I mean, Miss Weaver does pretty good in five
man content with the the talents that we have.
There's a few outlying bugs that just make it not super great at
the moment in both sets of like raid and M Plus, but like
Ancient Teachings, for example, it heals a maximum of five
players and then splits that healing up between those
players, you know, whoever is actually injured.
So if one person is not injured, then it splits into four and
then it keeps going down. So it's really scalable that
way. It helps a lot just getting that
like maintenance healing out as opposed to casting on somebody
at all times. Like, you know, some healers
need to cast off, let's say, a regrowth on somebody that's
taking damage when you could just press a Rising Sun kick and
it will heal that one person for a fairly large amount.
But I think they're fine. There's a lot of concerns about
like Life Cocoon, for example. It's always been a major concern
for Miss Weaver just with tanks in particular, damage reduction
on a tank is just so invaluable and for us to have a really,
really minor one at 6%, just a channel soothing mist on to them
when again back to the everything breaks the soothing
mist. Sometimes you can't even cast it
on these like shout scenarios, you know, like when talking
about Priory, for example, one of the Knights does their shout
or scream and you have to stop your channel in order to to get
it off. Otherwise you get silence for 10
seconds. But you need this damage
reduction on whoever it is. So it's kind of like that weird
quirk of Miss Weaver that you have to do something extra that
somebody else does for free. It's it's very odd.
But I think All in all, I mean, I think it works pretty well.
Just needs a bit of bit of tuning on the positive side.
OK, further down that line, outside of the shame bubble is
what we call it with Migrant. What are the external situations
for Miss Weaver? Like what?
What kind of effort can you give to that that tank before they
take the big hit or the person who you know is going to stand
in the goo? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's
basically just like Cocoon, which is a really, really good
external for ADPS, right? Because the, the lower amount of
damage you take, the better an absorb is, right?
So if somebody takes, you know, even their entire health bar,
I'll go with, you know, like health that is in midnight,
let's say 450K, right? Or 500K just to make it easy.
If they take a 500K hit with an absorb on them, that is a 500K
absorb. They take nothing, right?
They take no damage at all, whereas with damage reduction,
you have to go pretty high of damage reduced in order to not
take any damage for that. But as you scale up in the
amount of damage that you've taken, which a tank is a really
good example, that they're constantly taking really, really
big hits of damage. The absorb works well until a
certain point, so you can save them off of a really big hit,
but after that you don't really have very much.
You can channel soothing mist into them, you can continuously
cast a bunch of vivifies into them and try and keep them
alive. But I mean, it's really no
comparison to that damage reduction when, you know,
they're taking a million hits from a bunch of little smallies
and one of them breaks it after a second, which is not, you
know, not fake. It's happened so many times.
I'll put life cocoon on a tank and it will just die
immediately. And then I just kind of have to
hope and pray that I can keep them alive off of these crazy
hits that they have no defensive for.
I mean, we do have like our chi cocoons which happen whenever we
invoke our Celestial. But again, another weird part of
utility that other healers don't really have to deal with.
Like I have to use my major cooldown in order to give my
group some form of quote UN quote damage reduction with
these absorbs. And then it does nothing for a
tank, right? It's like 6% of your HP or
something like that. It's nothing to to sit proudly
about. Paint cooldowns seeming to have
been a sore spot for a long time, but like being able to
like quickly bounce a raid team back has always been something
that when I've come across Miss Weavers and raids has been a
shining point. What would you say the niche for
Miss Weavers are right now? Or do you feel like Miss Weavers
are being outshined in the niche that they should have?
Where? What's the situation currently
with midnight balancing? Yeah, you know, it's, it's
funny, I, I talked to Megaset, who's a a really awesome content
creator for Miss Weaver, does a lot of dungeon stuff, is our
best content creator. She's great.
We were just kind of talking very briefly and I was like,
what do you think Monk is about now?
Like looking at it from what we've lost, we've lost all of
our he lamps, which makes us like not very different from
anybody else anymore where we don't have this extra thing that
we do. You know, Misweaver is known as
a, a throughput healer in, in modern Wow, I guess, like
there's a damage reduction healer, there's a single target
healer, there's a healer that can, you know, top the raid
every 30 seconds like Evoker does.
And I, I, I don't think Misweaver has anything anymore,
honestly. You know, first for a throughput
healer that doesn't bring much to the raid, right?
We don't have power infusion. We don't bring like this crazy
raid buff. We just don't really do good
healing as as a result, you know, we've seen in the war
within Evoker has been insane at their healing and they're this
throughput healer, but now they're also receiving like
group wide damage reduction at like 16% group wide, you know,
damage reduction at a maximum and then some spread across
raid. I don't know the specifics so
please don't bash me if I'm wrong on that, but something
around there. It's fine.
So kind of seeing that it's like, where is Mist Weaver?
Where does it stand now? I, I really don't think it does.
It just kind of exists there and is at the mercy of our
throughput, right? We kind of have to go into this,
is Brewmaster good? Is Wind Walker good?
If neither of them are good, then Miss Weaver is the only
choice that can happen. But Miss Weaver is not at the
forefront of that decision almost ever unless our
throughput is so insane like we saw in a mere Dracil, right?
And a mere Dracil in Dragonflight.
Miss Weaver is really, really good because of the healing that
we did specifically. Like on the end boss for
example, right? We had to single target heal a
tree that had to be healed in like 10 seconds.
And Mystery did really good. We had a lot of supporting
talents there that increased our vivifies as we were single
target healing this tree and only got better as we were
healing more within like 1 channel of soothing mist.
So it allowed us to have that really good niche of the single
target healing, but it kind of fell off after that.
And then afterwards, it was like we had a good bit of, you know,
these really medium lows, I should say, right?
You know, instead of all of our healing falling off, whenever
we're kind of going through this, we just kind of stagnate,
right? We have these renewing mist that
are blanketed across our raid and then we can increase them at
some points to like 200% of their original healing and then
have these fairly big burst windows whenever we press our
cooldown. And with all of these he lamps
that are gone, with all those multipliers that are gone, our
cooldown is just kind of there doesn't really do much, you
know, the cooldown of itself, the, the absorbs do more than
what the actual cooldown does, which is so bad.
I mean, it's no interaction with what the gameplay is like.
So yeah, I, I don't know where our Nisha's at anymore.
It's just kind of healing if it's good, yeah.
OK, I mean, I would not want any spec to be reliant on the on
their other specs not having a place.
So you're just like, oh, where can I fit this rain buff?
I guess I take the the miss Weaver.
So what would you think should have What, what do you think
should happen in order to give a proper healing identity to Miss
Weaver? What the What's the shortest
route to a successful healing identity that you can see?
Yeah, I mean, shortest route, the easiest 1 is just to make us
what Preservation of Ochre was, right?
You had this really, really strong, very bursty healer that
was strong every like incredibly strong every minute and 30 right
that they just got to do these bombs of healing onto the raid.
It was super relevant in like nerbar palace and it's obviously
been nerfed and now removed because it was so oppressive.
So that would be like the quickest and easiest and
dirtiest way to do it in order for us to get kind of that niche
and identity back. I mean, I don't know, I feel
like all the bases are covered, right?
I'm we have disciplined priest that has kind of what that
preservation Evoker was like that they're a little bit at the
mercy of their cooldowns where, you know, every minute and 30
they just kind of do this really big amount of healing and then
they die down towards the end. You kind of have rested druid
that has really solid spread out healing, which now I think they
have a really major burst presence to their healing with
like regrowths that are just bursting the raid that they kind
of sort of stole from us with a regrowth affecting every single
rejuve across the raid, which is just invigorating mists.
It's vivify. It's basically the same thing.
You know, you have H Paladin that is pretty good at like
moderate healing across the raid that has been fairly well known
for its single target healing and this kind of like topping
somebody very quickly type healing.
So it's hard for me to choose a place where things can go for
Miss Weaver because it's always been that, like lone child out
pretty much since its introduction.
Yeah, I'm not. I'm not sure.
OK, all right. Swapping it up a little bit, we
have seen the Miss Weaver buff get buffed itself and then
reverted back. Do you feel that Misweavers,
like we already talked about, of course, Externals.
Do you feel like the Mystic Touch buff is doing enough in
its current form? Do you feel that that should be
something that gets addressed so that it doesn't feel left off?
I know anybody who is playing playing the last spec without a
proper raid buff or DK sport one out for them is yelling at me
because it's they don't have one but miss Weaver.
Do you think that buff needs to needs to be improved?
Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest, I will swap with DK.
If I was given the choice right now, I would gladly take a grip
over what Mystic Touches. I mean, and a few of the other
things that DK has going for it, like they're immortal, they have
this awesome raid buff that like produces damage.
They don't have to take damage. It's great.
A lot of things going for it. But yeah, I mean, Mystic Touch
lives in a really weird state right now.
I was actually just kind of doing a deep dive into to
seeing, you know, how many specs are actually dealing physical
damage, right? Because the buff only effects
physical damage. And you know, Demon Hunter has
the opposite of ours that theirs effects all magical damage.
But when you really take a look at the specs that are dealing
physical damage, there's only two that are doing 100% physical
damage, which is warrior Pot Warrior is like 95% physical
damage. But yeah, I mean, those specs
are doing mostly all physical and then it slowly weans down
like you have actually, sorry, Ferrell Druid is also doing
almost 100% physical damage. And then it goes down from there
like rogue that you would think these, you know, melees that are
attacking with their daggers are doing physical damage.
It's not it's like 1 spec is doing 45% Fizz and another spec
is doing, you know, 60 or something like that.
So while those specs are really good that they take most like
benefit from it. Also Hunter is a good one.
I think it's like 80% of their damage is physical, something
like that. I don't have everything in front
of me to tell you, but somewhere around there.
So those specs are you know, that's awesome that Miss Sugar
can kind of synergize with that. But it's also really unfortunate
because Miss Sugar can't synergize with anything else.
You know, you have the state of when you really can only compare
with other healers, right? Healers are the only thing you
can kind of sort of compare with because that's what you're
fighting for. You're fighting for that healer
spot. When you look at everything that
everybody else brings, with the exception of preservation of
Ochre, though, I would say that Time Spiral is super duper good,
especially in a raid format. Obviously dies a bit and M plus
kind of has a similar vein to us, but they also have blood
lust and you know this bleed dispel that they have.
So not just necessarily about their raid buff, but the other
things that it brings. It leaves mystery in a spot of
OK, I don't bring damage reduction like devotion aura
does. I don't bring mark of the wild,
which versatility effects every single person you know their
healing and their damage with priest.
They bring Fort, so they raise stamina with I mean, that's both
priests, right? You have shaman that just got
this insane raid buff. That is probably the best raid
buff ever that they've ever created.
And it's kind of unfair, right? We we we only affect a super
small subset. Yeah, it's great.
Everybody looks out for it. I wish that I had it, but I
think actually if you look at the benefits of misrevers raid
buff compared to shamans, even on the specs that are fully
doing physical damage, shamans still wins out and they bring
bloodlust and they bring spirit link and some damage reduction.
So much like so many tools around their tool kit that just
like outshine anything that Misreur brings, that it's in a
weird spot, right? And that's kind of what I
mentioned before, that Mystic Touch is going to be brought to
a raid. There's been times where they've
decided to not bring a monk into a raid because of the way that
the raid works with that specific boss that it's really
bad for melee, for example, right?
The less melee that you have that can actually benefit from
it, the less that you need the Mystic Touch buff.
Whereas versatility effects every single person.
I do think that, you know, the buff that they did to it and the
subsequent nerf was needed. In a sense.
I I kind of understand it because that just makes that
synergy even stronger where it's like I have to play with the
speck in order to do decent. I don't know if it was the worst
thing to happen because it was gonna happen anyways, right?
You have to play with the speck to do good.
Now I just have to have to play with the speck.
I don't know, but ultimately I would like to see it changed.
I mean, I, I don't see a reason why it can't be Same with like
Demon Hunter, even though they buff literally everybody else
because it's just magical damage.
You know, chaos, which is literally every single magic
school. And when you look at every
caster, I mean, it's all magical damage.
You look at Rhett Paladin, which is doing 7% physical damage, 7%
on a melee. It's insane.
So those things are just kind of kind of weird and I wish would
change absolutely. OK, if we're then taking that
from the raid and trying to fight for that raid slot, it's
even worse when you're in a five man.
We're talking about specific setups for a Mythic Plus group,
and you're talking about Brett Paladin's only doing such a
small single digit percentage and and that does that mean that
Mystic Touch really isn't going to be benefiting most of the
groups that you might pug with? And does that mean that if
you're bringing a Miss Weaver, you're looking for a very
particular comp in Mythic Plus? Yeah, I think so.
I mean, I don't think that that's like something that you
have to super duper worry about, but synergy in M is always super
good, right? You want to have some form of
synergy within your group because if you don't, then it's
kind of like, what's the point, right?
I could have just brought, you know, this shaman that's gonna
affect everybody in my group and not just, you know, the fury
warrior that's in my group. And then everybody else doesn't
get any benefit. Now, this obviously is not to
say like this is a requirement, right?
Unfortunately, meta has always kind of come down from the top
to the bottom. So it will eventually affect
everyone, but it shouldn't, right?
If you're doing a weekly plus 10, that does not matter to
anybody. Even, you know, non world first
keys. It does not matter to anybody
really. It does add up for sure.
But yeah, I mean, it makes it hard, right, Because if you
compare, which again, back to I'm only comparing between
healers, I I can't really compare between, you know, ADPS
and a healer because I'm fighting for that spot in
particular. It it makes a bit of disrupt
when you're trying to choose because this other healer can
either do healing better than me, brings a better raid buff,
has more utility, does something better where monks monks is
really hard to sell. So getting that comp kind of
perfect is I think probably a necessity if you really want to
do super duper well. But I don't think it's, you
know, make or break, but it is a a big benefit.
One thing that I think that we haven't really talked about just
because it really hasn't been much of an issue in the last
expansion is mana efficiency. If you're running through keys
and you've got good throughput, maybe not the best throughput,
but you can just keep putting that throughput on.
That could be a place for healers in mythic Plus does Monk
farewell in that? Are you having to stop often in
order to like recoup that MP? Just are you going OOM
significantly or can you just keep trucking?
Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to lie, I don't.
I don't think that that would really matter too much if a
healer, you know, is doing medium healing, but they never
run out of mana. I think it's it's definitely the
opposite way around that if they're doing really good
healing, they usually just don't run out of mana.
But if they do really good healing anyways, they'll they'll
figure it out one way or another.
Monsieur now has I think mana's OK for M plus.
So, you know, running from pack to pack I don't think is a major
issue anyways, right? Because you have as a healer,
especially as a monk healer, right?
You just rolled forward and you're kind of like already
there at the next pack. So you can briefly sit down.
And not every pack is gonna be so much of this mana
intensiveness. Or, you know, let's say you're
walking up to a boss and there's no damage for the 1st 15
seconds, right? You can sit down before combat
starts and you don't have to really do anything until you
have to really start healing and getting prepared.
There's obviously exceptions to that rule for sure, but I don't
think that's a major issue. I mean, miss Uber now in in M
plus specifically, I can foresee mana issues once we get to these
like 3-4 five minute bosses that require either a lot of single
target healing or just really major, you know, group wide
healing. I mean, we have a talent right
now that when you drink Manatee stacks, you regain stacks of
Shaylin's Gift to heal your group more.
So we kind of got rid of this part of Manatee that was you
drink some stacks and then afterwards you have this
duration of reduced costs on on your spells.
That's now gone again, back to this like tracking mentality
type thing that they're removing in midnight.
And now it just returns mana, which I don't think it was
enough mana return that they gave us as like a, a
compensation for that being gone.
Because I think All in all, Misreaver is kind of maybe this
is our niche, right? This is our mana niche that we
are super mana reliant, you know, constantly worrying about
mana where, you know, we have some healers that you're never
think about it ever, or they're like moderately fine.
It's just a thing that they have to deal with where monks is
constantly in the back of our minds of, you know, I have to
have manatee going in order to make myself, you know, prolong
the duration that I have until the end of a fight.
So I, I, I definitely foresee a bunch of issues that can happen
as fights progress longer. I'm very worried about pre patch
right now. Nexus King is like the killer of
mana in general. And now I, I genuinely don't
know how I'm going to survive until the end.
Maybe the damage that they have reduced it by is like more than
enough to not worry about it. But if I go umm in the first
minute 30 I'm going to be very very sad.
Miss Fever. OK, that mana game, do you find
that that's a fun mini game? Like in my mind, if you're
healing and you're a fairly reactive healing, because that's
what monks do, that's what shaman healing is for the most
part, your reactive healing. That mini game is kind of what
makes you somewhat stand out in like gameplay loops.
Is the Mana mini game a fun mini game?
So I did think it was quite fun before this season.
I thought it was some way for you to not only provide a bunch
of skill expression to the gameplay, right?
You have this thing that only stacks to 20 and you can drink
it at some points. You know, you have this mana
cost reduction at the end of it that you know you want to fit in
as many mana heavy spells to do it.
So you're kind of shifting your globals around in order to like
fit a rushing wind kick in there or fit a enveloping mist in
there. That's like reduced via some
buff that you got and it allowed you to play pretty good.
Like if you didn't play manatee well, you did not get to the end
of the fight and you did not play very well.
Prior to this, this season we just had so many globals that
were active for us, or I mean, sorry, this season we just have
so many globals that are filled in.
Our CPM is so high that, you know, playing the Mana mini game
was so hard. While you have all of these
effects that are going on, you know you're getting Cdr from 4
different sources and you're constantly pressing abilities
and it's really, really hard to keep up sometimes, right?
Mystery did not start this season super well, so in order
to keep up with different healers you had to cast more,
and Manatee was just like this looming thing at the back.
I definitely need to. Cool down and screw screw your
throughput when you did it on it.
Yeah, exactly. So it's, I think it's fun, I
think it's engaging. I think it brings a level of
skill expression which a lot of it has now been reduced by that
mana cost reduction being gone where it's just kind of a now
it's really just like a kind of like bug kind of just standing
there and you gotta squash it eventually because otherwise you
don't make it to the end of a fight where some healers again
back to Shaman, you know, Shaman just kind of does what it does
and then it sticks around like 8090 and it's just there.
So yeah, I, I don't know what has to happen with it, but it's,
it's fine, I guess. OK.
We've been talking about midnight for all of this and we
haven't yet to discuss the Apex talents.
Yeah, So what is Miss Weaver's Apex talents and does it
actually change the game? Yeah, so Miss Weaver's Apex
talent is like all of them. Four points.
First one is that when you just cast, you got a chance to proc
this thing called Spirit Font, which visually I think is really
cool. Soothing Mist is kind of
something that Miss Weaver, I mean, has always had, right?
It's a super cool channeled spell that either dominates
gameplay or it does not needed all the time, just depending on
the way that you're healing. And that visual has always been
super cool to a bunch of misfivers.
I love it. And what it does is it sends off
5 soothing mists from your body on to five players.
It swaps around to different targets that you know, if they
get healed to 100%, moves on to somebody else, heals them, just
gives them, you know, this extra bit of healing from you.
So visually, I think super cool. We had a talent previously
called Unison that unfortunately got removed.
I really don't know why, probably because of this, the
Apex talent, but it just replicated your soothing mists,
right? So you could have had, I think
it was a maximum of like 16 soothing mists onto your raid at
once, which is crazy, right? It's like a spider going through
the raid of these green myths. But I mean, it was really cool.
But I understand kind of why it had to be removed to not have
that happen when that procs. And you press the sorry when it
procs, it doesn't immediately go.
You have to press it, right? It's not like immediate passive
healing, right? Yeah, you have it's tied to
enveloping this. So whenever you cast the
enveloping this after it proc, it would start doing this.
And it's not like you channeling it, it's just a buff that you
get right that just pushes it on to everybody else.
So it's really good. It also like the last point is
tied to Thunder Focus T so you can guarantee a proc that way.
The like 2 middle nodes is just you know, a little bit of extra
buff, higher rushing wind kick, rising sun kick healing more
enveloping mist healing while your spirit fonts are active.
Those are like the bonus is doubled.
So pretty basic stuff in the middle, but I mean, ultimately I
think it's really cool. I think for the way that it
heals, I think was really smart, right, that they have this
talent that's not really used much anymore.
Visually is a really major part of Mist Reaver of like your
mists, right? Your Mist healing people, you
don't really get to see them super often in gameplay just
because you don't really use soothing Mist all that much.
So to be able to activate it that way is really cool.
Thematically, I think it's really cool.
Numerically in raid it does a lot better just because of the
way that it works. And then an M Plus, I think it's
kind of all right. Definitely some other Apex
talents that I've seen that are really, really cool and do a lot
more. But All in all, I can't really
complain with it. I think it's really cool.
When it procs, how long does that?
How long do you have to use that proc?
Is it sticking around for like 10 seconds, 30 seconds, a minute
or like it appears? It's 30 seconds, so it's a
really long time on it should proc multiple times a minute.
So ideally you kind of want to use it when you get it right.
We had we had a bug on not, I guess not really a bug, but on
beta for the longest time that was actually fixed yesterday
that it was not visible on the the cooldown manager.
So it's just very hard to see when you got a proc versus like
the guaranteed one from Thunder Focus T, which I mean affect the
gameplay, right. You didn't know when you had
healing when you actually had healing where you couldn't, you
know, could have used that instead of a a cool down,
because I would say it's about cool down strength, maybe like a
mini cool down strength of of a cast.
So sticks around for a while. You could definitely plan around
it a little bit. It's not just like you get it.
You have to spend it now, but it's more so I should spend it
fairly soon. You know that that 30 seconds, I
think that's kind of great. Like if you're at the end of a
pack, you're like, no, no, I'm just going to bring this into
the next one. If you're if it procs in the
middle of a boss fighting, you know, the next damage events
coming up, you kind of can save it to like actually be
effective. I like that.
OK. Yeah, it's pretty good.
I I think that the way that it works is really well, I think
it's better than kind of some of the things that we've seen in
the war within where we have this buff that is literally
infinite, which I think is a bit unfair of of just the way that
it plays. I think that it should never
have been infinite. And definitely maybe a 30 second
thing would have been nice too there, but it was definitely a a
major bonus to monk. OK.
All right. Last things that I want to ask
you about congening with talents, of course, in midnight,
sorry, in midnight we're going to have a new row of talents in
both of those heroes trees. I think Monk also got some
talents completely pulled out and replaced as well for for
their hero trees. How are those looking?
Let's start with like the conduit of the Celestials.
Like how is condo Celestials looking with those new talents?
Yeah, so Conduit was definitely the the baby of whoever did our
hero trees of, of, you know, looking at the way that monks
should play it got a lot of changes to it, so much more than
Master of Harmony. In the Conduit celestials tree
we got, you know, a choice, a new choice node between whether
or not our celestials active. If we do 5% more healing, it's a
little bit boring, but 5% is 5% in cooldowns.
I'll take it with another choice node there that increases rising
sun kick damage. So pretty good.
The tree is just to like preface, it is very well known
for not great damage because Master of Harmony did phenomenal
damage when it really needed to, so it got a lot of supporting
talents for damage there. There's another one that conduit
itself, the actual button press no longer gets increased by the
number of targets up to a cap. Now it is doing maximum damage
until 5 targets, and then it gets reduced past that, so it
does even more damage. Now there's a talent there that
increases its damage and healing when you have lower amounts of
targets to do. So it's like kind of inverse but
still doing good damage and healing.
So those are really good. Those are welcomed.
I don't really love that they're adding damage onto our tree.
I guess some of the damage gets pushed into healing, like the
Rising Sun kick for example, right?
Because it converts into healing.
Not a super big fan of of that in particular, but it's fine.
The tree really needed some of that damage like I mentioned
earlier, like our hero talents are coming in to the tree now.
So changing the way that Heart of the Jade Serpent worked from
Shaolin's Gift to Thunder Focus T activating it and then Thunder
Focus T gets cooldown reduction through Heart of the Jade
Serpent. So very, very much like a, a, a
cyclical relationship with both of them.
We gain haste during our Heart of the Jade Serpent.
There's one more that I'm totally blanking on that we got
on our new robe that I can't remember.
Oh, it's a, a random proc to Heart of the Jade Serpent.
So a lot of really good things working there for Thunder Focus
T like now it's it's kind of become this like almost major
cooldown. So many things are tied to it
now that it's super strong. That makes the tree really,
really strong. So a lot of things there.
Master of Harmony unfortunately got some really sad changes that
I don't love with the tier sets edition.
Like I mentioned before, it was kind of like in a reduced format
right before it was super overbearing and did a lot of
healing when it really, really got into it and especially on
the lower end, did a lot of healing when you just didn't
really have too much to heal anyways.
And then they reduce it down to like when we get a rising sun
kick that is guaranteed, which is good, right?
That's a good way to to move around it from what it
previously was of just like the more healing you do, the more
chances you have to gain a stack of it.
So that was really good. We got another node that
increases ancient teachings healing by 50% or the, excuse
me, the the transfer of damage into healing by 50%.
So fairly basic node. The capstone of the tree was, I
would say, reworked. Not necessarily a nerf, not
really a buff. Puffed for raid nerf for M plus
kind of. It used to have this 20% heel
amp attached to it that had a lot of intricacies on it that a
lot of mysteries are very confused.
I had to write a whole guide about it.
Make weak wores around it. It was a super convoluted thing
that still is kind of around there but isn't really worried
some anymore. But it was reworked, so it made
it so that when you cast Vivify or Shalin's Gift now it puts a
Hot for 100% of the amount that you healed onto that player and
reducing from this vitality pool that you had, which is really
good. It's very solid for healing.
But as a result of that, you know, Shalin's Gift, for
example, an M plus it stacks up to 10.
So the more stacks you have, the more healing it does.
And when you press it at 10 stacks, that's a lot of healing.
So it just like wipes your entire pool worth of vitality.
So previously where we had these really big burst moments of
healing when you press Thunder focus T that gave you this heel
amp that gave you this pool of of healing to work with either
applied onto healing or damage. Now when you do it, you just
don't have enough vitality regularly like to to do anything
with. So good for raid, right?
Because now you have this, this pool that can no longer cap
anymore. Previously in raid, you just sit
on 100% vitality for, you know, 10 seconds because you press it,
you do a bunch of healing and then it's done.
So good for raid and plus, which it was mainly good for, lost out
a lot. You don't do damage with the
tree anymore. The thing that used to do like
30 to 40% of your damage is now 2%.
A lot of the healing nodes do practically nothing for healing.
It's very, very damage focused, which is fine.
It worked really well. But when we're comparing the two
trees, it's, I mean, the difference is quite stark.
Perhaps the team is gonna come back with another pass through.
Maybe, maybe not. Unfortunately I was was playing
Shaman at the throughout the War Within and for those who might
remember, one of the the hero talents was left in a really
horrible position and didn't get its rework until the Point O5
patch. So let's hope that's not the
situation for you. I'm glad one of your trees looks
like a baby gem and it's wonderful.
So you do have an option, but you want you want both options
to be viable. Yeah, and I mean, Miss Sugar, I
think is not not a stranger to these things happening where
things start off really bad and then they get moderately good as
time progresses, just with, you know, recognizing that there's
an issue and then it being solved.
I think Miss Sugar has done really good in like
Dragonflight. The wherewithin dragonflight,
especially the the rise of miss fever was pretty crazy from the
depths of nothing to pretty solid.
You know, being a meta healer in in dragonflight season 3 and
being wanted pretty often for raid.
And you know, while it didn't do the highest of keys that resto
Jura did in that season, it still was the most populous
healer, which is like unforeseen levels of gameplay.
So I'm hoping that something comes of it.
I think leaving the tree in the dust is is not a good thing.
Hopefully this is like the devs evil plan of like let me make
the tree so bad nobody plays it and then I have to tell Blizzard
I have to rework this tree to get players on because they did
some crazy changes in the war within that made the tree super
meta and and I think like the .5 or point yeah something patched
like that that made it really good, which is mostly bug fixes,
but this isn't bug fixes. This is just tuning and bad
nodes. The the last thing that I've got
to ask you because you are the first healer that we've had on
for this series, with the add-ons and the changes to the
API, healers will not have access to nearly the same amount
of information that they used to have.
How much is that affecting Miss Weavers in particular?
Yeah, I think that it's not super affecting monk as much as
other healers are like rest of druid feel bad for him, hate
them, but feel bad for him. But I, I think it does in some
of these moments of miss Weaver, like for example, with, you
know, renewing miss coverage on the raid right when we have, and
granted, there is add-ons, I have not checked it out yet.
So I could be just saying things that are fully in function now.
But when you look at, you know, these buffs for me personally,
like I've always played with my renewing mist at the top right,
my enveloping mist in the middle on the bottom right.
I had, you know, enveloping breath, for example, and
soothing mist was at the top. So definitely being able to like
filter out where things are on my raid frames helps me in
figuring out quickly who has what.
Now the way that they work now is that, I mean, you have no
filtering whatsoever. You have one singular line of of
hots or buffs that you apply onto them with what add-ons can
do now, which is filter them by like making them alphabetical or
by like duration. But that doesn't do anything for
me because something that's alphabetical could be less
important, right? When I look at, let's say chi
cocoon versus enveloping mist versus renewing mist, right,
they would just display in that order.
But chi cocoons to me don't really mean too much.
They do if I'm playing a specific build and I have to do
some things on it. But I don't really care all that
much about who has this absorb on them.
I care about who has my renewing mist so that when I place
another renewing mist, I'm not wasting it, right?
There's some fall back mechanics that renewing mist has that when
you place a new one on somebody that has one already that can
jump to somebody, but only if somebody is injured and near
them in like a 20 yard range. So it's really good that there's
this like fall back protection on it.
But if those things are not true, I've now lost this
renewing mist, right? And for me to quickly identify
things that are happening on my raid.
I mean, it's hard. It's it's definitely pretty hard
and like the heat of the moment, especially, right?
I mean, I'm sure like if anybody has ever progged something, you
tunnel vision sometimes and it's really easy to get into these
hard moments of a raid boss and you go into it and you just kind
of are I guess on autopilot. So for you to be able to get
there, like figuring out those things in the moment makes it
really hard filtering out buffs or or debuffs that are
unimportant, right? I filter out currently every
debuff that is like raid wide. I know when my raid is taking
damage. I don't care that they, I have
this debuff on them that's ticking for 1% of their health.
I, I, I could care less about that, but it's on my raid frames
without a choice for me to get rid of that.
And as a healer, I feel like even with mystery, right, it's
it, it just, I've lost agency for anything that I'm doing
right. ADPS can display their their
Dots on a nameplate. They can display their cooldowns
on their cooldown manager in any order that they want, wherever
they want, how they want. There's obviously limitations to
it, but I just don't have that agency anymore.
So I'm, I'm a bit worried. I, I think that some things that
they have done, or I guess I should say lack of doing is very
clear that, you know, healers are not at their forefront of
what they're doing. And they're definitely, you
know, even though they've said they want to make healing
easier, this is not the right way to do it.
Even as a mystery. I, I got some Flack the other
day for being the only healer with these like survival guides
that Wowhead is doing, being the only healer that didn't mention
raid frames. But for me, it was like, every
healer's gonna do it. So let me talk about the actual
problems with my spec, then talk about something that's kind of
well known anyways. You're not going to repeat the
same thing that five other specs have put in, as well as several
of the DPS and tanks along with it.
OK, Yeah. Exactly.
OK, well honestly this is being an amazing talk and now I'm
looking at it. We're at the hour.
So did I say 45 minutes when I initially started this man?
Eventually. I don't even know.
But this has been an amazing conversation.
When people want to find you and your stuff, where can they find
you? Yeah, I mean, I mostly talk
through discord to people. I'm in peak of serenity super
duper often. I'm in their swirl, always known
as swirl pretty much everywhere I stream on Twitch lol.
Twirl on Twitch don't really do that much right now, just mostly
Prague stuff, key stuff when I'm actually doing that of odds on
swirl streams on YouTube. That's pretty much it.
If you got a question feel free to pop in to peek and at me.
Always down to to help. That's awesome.
Thank you so much and hopefully good things coming for months
and for the raid frames and we will see you guys all in
midnight. Until next time, may all your
hits be grits.