1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,600 Guardian Druid. Something not incarn related. 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,440 I'm begging, just not incarn related. 3 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:10,400 Please, please pick something else. 4 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:16,640 For the Forsaken, for Lauderon, for the Kieran Tour, for 5 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:21,360 Pandaria. For calendar to the. 6 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:29,560 Burning region for Gilnaeus, but has not done for the Lich King, 7 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:37,520 for the Sindori, for the Alliance, for the Horn, for 8 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:41,120 Azeroth. Hello and welcome to a very 9 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:45,360 special episode of For Azeroth. I am of course Manny AKA to 10 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,120 Trueville. Manny and I am joined by the 11 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,960 Indomitable Wall Tactics. Hello tactics, how are you? 12 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:54,240 Good, good. Excited to be here. 13 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,400 I appreciate the invite. Always happy to talk about all 14 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,080 things tanking. So yeah, it's I'm excited. 15 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,760 Yeah. So for those of us who may not 16 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,200 know the pedigree that you're coming from, tell us a little 17 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,120 bit about yourself. Yeah, so I've been playing Wow 18 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,720 for a long time, I think since like Burning Crusade when I was 19 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,560 in like middle school, I was kind of on and off. 20 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,520 I've been playing consistently since Siege of Orgermar and I 21 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,880 started being a bit more competitive in like Battle for 22 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,760 Azeroth, like the end of Battle for Azeroth in Season 4 with all 23 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:29,800 the corruption stuff, Nyalotha. And then I started like 24 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,160 seriously mythic raiding in Castle Nathria. 25 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:34,360 And since then I've kind of worked my way up. 26 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:38,600 I've gotten like every single point 1% title on I think 5 out 27 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,520 of the six tank specs. I've gotten cutting edge Hall of 28 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:46,600 Fame on four or five of the of the tank specs in the game. 29 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,160 And I currently raid in like a Guild that hovers around the 30 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:54,200 world 50 rank. Yeah, in fact, this last tier, 31 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,000 you guys got a world first, if I recall correctly. 32 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,560 Yeah, yeah. Not usually something we we go 33 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,040 for by any means, but it was, it was cool. 34 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,520 It was cool to get for sure. Definitely. 35 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,800 So like, I guess you weren't going like you said, you don't 36 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:10,880 go for that, but like how did that happen? 37 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,960 How did you get into that world? First kill? 38 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:18,360 Yes, I mean, we, we do only two splits total. 39 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,560 So we have we have two groups usually and a lot of the top 40 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,560 guilds, they'll have many, many groups especially look in the 41 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,520 race world first, right. Like they don't really care 42 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,240 about the first bosses, they care about the last boss and 43 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,960 that's it. And so they do like 40 splits, 44 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:36,080 but like the normal human guilds in the top 100 usually do 45 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:37,800 anywhere from 2:00 to 4:00 splits. 46 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,080 So we're on the lower end of that, right, with, with two 47 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,080 splits. And so we finished all the 48 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,480 splits except for heroic dementias. 49 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,040 We hadn't done heroic dementias yet. 50 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:51,120 And we looked and we saw no Guild had gotten below 60% on 51 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,000 the first boss. And we're like, what's going on 52 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:54,680 there? So we, we went in, we were like, 53 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,520 hey, what, what is actually so tough about this boss? 54 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,240 And on our first poll, I think we had like a 2% wipe and you're 55 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:04,280 like, OK, so this is just people pulling this, this boss without 56 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,080 gear. We, we went back and looked 57 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,320 like, so no one had tier bonuses, no one had anything 58 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,080 outside of like the season 2 stuff. 59 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,200 It's like, OK, well, we'll just kill it real quick and and move 60 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:15,400 on. Get a world first. 61 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:17,960 Put that in our, our cap. And yeah, it was, it was funny. 62 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,080 But yeah, definitely not. We are, we are not delusional in 63 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:23,080 thinking that we are world first Raiders. 64 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,320 You know, I, I promptly retired, I think shortly after that. 65 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:28,840 Go out on top. That's awesome. 66 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:36,720 So then with that as well as casting you've, you've had like 67 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,800 a good amount of experience with the War Within and with tanking 68 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,640 and how it's been. So that's kind of what we're 69 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:47,840 here to talk about today about tanking in the War Within and 70 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,640 how it's looking like going into Midnight and what we might like. 71 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:57,000 So give me like a little bit of background on your tanking. 72 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,520 So you do splits. Is there like a favorite tank? 73 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:01,080 Are you playing all of the tanks? 74 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,600 I think historically at least I'm I'm pretty well known for 75 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,600 playing Guardian Druid. It was like the first tank I 76 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,960 started playing competitively back in Castle Nathria and it 77 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,640 was actually the tank spec that I 1 tricked all the way through 78 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,360 getting mythic plus titles and through getting into a Hall of 79 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,000 Fame Guild. That's a tank player, which is, 80 00:04:21,079 --> 00:04:23,560 you know, that's there's only two tanks boxed in a Guild. 81 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:28,280 So it takes a bit of a bit of time and effort to actually get 82 00:04:28,280 --> 00:04:30,160 one of those, you know, coveted spots. 83 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,080 And so I one tricked guardian Druid to actually do that. 84 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,320 Since then I've been more of a multi class tank player. 85 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,680 As you know, again, the higher you go up in the the Guild 86 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,760 ranks, the more important it is that your tank players 87 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,080 specifically are multi classers. And so that's something I've 88 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,520 taken on, but Guardian Druids always going to have a a close 89 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,320 spot in my heart. OK. 90 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:57,800 And so as you've moved away from being a 1 trick and as you've 91 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,560 gained that sort of flexibility, we've moved into the war within. 92 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,720 And so like in general, how have tanks been? 93 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:11,240 Has the like, let's say the delta on how viable tanks are, 94 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,560 Has that been fairly narrow? Have all tanks been like 95 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,920 somewhat viable or or like how's it been through through the war 96 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:19,840 within? So I think it always depends on 97 00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:22,520 the content, right? Like I think a lot of people's 98 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:27,320 think in my weekly 10 keys I need the meta tank In my weekly, 99 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,560 you know, get my keystone ledge and need the meta tank or 100 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:31,000 whatever. That's definitely not true. 101 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,920 I think every single tank is more than viable to do that kind 102 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,320 of level of content. Even cutting edge getting, 103 00:05:36,840 --> 00:05:39,560 beating the hard response, automatic difficulty is doable 104 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,640 by all 6 tank specs. So I don't think like viability 105 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:44,960 wise that's an issue. Obviously you're going to see 106 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,640 some things excel and you're going to see some interesting 107 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:49,880 trends. If you look at like season 1 108 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,680 meta tank numbers, Season 2 meta tank numbers, it's heavily 109 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:57,640 skewed in One Direction. But I think that is almost a bit 110 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:02,800 of a symptom of high end tank players often being multi 111 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,840 classers, right? Like there are obviously still 112 00:06:05,840 --> 00:06:09,920 high end 1 tricks, but a lot of tank players are just happy to 113 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,520 play the tank role and they will just reroll to the strongest 114 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:15,520 tank that is in the role currently. 115 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:19,760 And so I think that probably plays a a bit of an influence on 116 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,680 why you see like 90 plus percent representation of like prop 117 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,800 Paladin season one title range, for example, or or similar 118 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,200 number for season 2 in Vengeance Team Hunter. 119 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,320 I, I think I've said that multiple times on this show 120 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,200 where it is one of those self fulfilling prophecies where it's 121 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,880 like, Oh yeah, this is like able to do the exact same thing, but 122 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,240 a little bit easier. And so like the best players 123 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,720 shift over to that, that makes it look like it's performing 124 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,240 even that much better. And that causes that like, you 125 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,160 know, trickle down or cascading effect. 126 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:54,240 So I'm glad that they're that they're all viable at least for 127 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:58,760 for everything but the cutting edge of players or the bleeding 128 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:00,040 edge. I don't want to call it just 129 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:05,280 cutting edge. Is the same true relative to 130 00:07:05,280 --> 00:07:07,640 raid and mythic plus? Or is there a little bit more of 131 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:12,280 a schism for different content? Yeah, I mean, I think, I think 132 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,400 it's especially early on in the in the expansion and it had a 133 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:20,240 bit of a rough start, right? Like going into the the beta of 134 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:24,040 War Within there was the whole tank nerfs, right? 135 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,520 It was a it was a big topic because like they kind of 136 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:28,880 Blizzard kind of came in and they're like, listen, tanks are 137 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:33,240 too powerful right now. We want them to have some 138 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,240 reliance on healers. In exchange, we're going to give 139 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,840 you a less bursty damage intake. And and that's kind of what 140 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:43,400 their initial stated goals were going into the expansion. 141 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,920 And it didn't quite work out in season 1, as we saw right? 142 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:51,880 There was a ton of bursty magic damage intake and most tank 143 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:54,440 specs had problems dealing with it. 144 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,080 And then we saw Paladin kind of get buffed. 145 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,600 And specifically in Mythic Plus. Again, I will maintain that raid 146 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,400 is very diverse and has been diverse all expansion. 147 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,520 But specifically in Mythic Plus, if you look at some of the high 148 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:10,440 key routes, like if you're pushing for the .1% title, a lot 149 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:15,280 of those routes could not be lived by other tank specs. 150 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,800 You had to run something entirely different, usually a 151 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,240 lot more conservative because of the whole 100% spell block 152 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,280 shenanigans that pro paladins could do, allowing them to 153 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:28,160 basically on demand fully mitigate any kind of incoming 154 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,400 magic damage. Of which there was a lot of 155 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,960 incoming magic damage bursts in season 1. 156 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,520 And so that was a bit of a problem that was peeled back a 157 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:40,400 little bit in season 2. It was almost entirely removed, 158 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,520 I think magic damage intake from the tank spot it entirely 159 00:08:44,680 --> 00:08:47,000 instead of replaced by melee swings. 160 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:50,040 The bulk of your damage was just pure melee swings. 161 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,080 And so that that gives things, you know, there's a lot more 162 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:57,200 balance in that. We saw Vengeance kind of rise 163 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:01,640 up, but I maintain that's a mix of not only them being the most 164 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,280 durable tank, but also a tank that is entirely 165 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,800 self-sustaining, right. You could play with a prop 166 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,920 warrior and they could survive very similar poles in season 2. 167 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,160 Like we saw brewmaster as well appear in a bunch of high key 168 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:17,280 comps, but they needed more attention from their healer is a 169 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,200 is a main thing. Whereas vengeance was entirely 170 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,160 self-sustaining, something that Blizzard had talked about. 171 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,480 Hey, no, we want we want tanks to rely on the healer and then 172 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,720 just vengeance on its own kind of didn't do that. 173 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,680 Lived the same or bigger poles and then buffed all the DPS that 174 00:09:30,680 --> 00:09:32,400 were doing magic damage at the same time. 175 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,960 So that was kind of, you know, it kind of skewed it in 176 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,640 Vengeance's favor a bit, but we did start seeing with them 177 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,400 removing magic damage, more tanks appear in the high end. 178 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,200 Like I said, there were there prop warrior comps, there were 179 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,800 room master comps, and I think season 3 they've struck a nice 180 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:52,760 balance where they've kind of peeled back on that a little 181 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:54,920 bit. They've added more caster mobs 182 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,480 in that actually don't hit the tank, but they still have caster 183 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:58,880 melees. So they're a little weaker. 184 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,840 And they also have a lot more debuffs and Dots in the pool. 185 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,520 And then on top of that, we're seeing them kind of be like, OK, 186 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:06,280 you know what, we'll let tanks be strong again. 187 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:07,880 You don't need to rely on the healer. 188 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,040 Prop warriors are popping off. Brewmasters got the defensive 189 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,560 buffs. What prop paladins are looking 190 00:10:13,560 --> 00:10:17,200 better with the changes even of course Avengers team hunters are 191 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,640 like all all the tanks. Most of the tanks. 192 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,480 I mean, I think blood decays are still a little sad, but I think 193 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,120 most of the tank specs this season are looking quite good. 194 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,640 And obviously it's early, but you know, Ameda is Ameda is 195 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,720 going to evolve at some point, but it's looking a lot more 196 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,800 balanced this season than the previous two, which is good to 197 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:36,080 see. And and a good omen for 198 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,720 midnight. So before we look directly at 199 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:44,360 midnight, sort of looking at this season, where do you see 200 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:46,920 the meta developing or what do you think's going to influence 201 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:52,640 the meta for Season 3 right now? So I, I think, I think always 202 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:57,200 the biggest thing and the thing that people tend to overlook is, 203 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:01,360 is just raw damage output. It's just like damage is king, 204 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,720 especially obviously for the DPS role. 205 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,640 People look at things like Vengeance, Stephen Hunter and 206 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,440 Paladin from the previous seasons and they're like, well, 207 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,880 you're only bringing them because of their sigil utility 208 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,760 or because pals and utility. But in reality, I don't think 209 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,320 that's really it. Like you build a comp around 210 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,200 what can do the most damage and as a tank player, what can live 211 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:25,320 the poles that you need to do? And then you say, OK, what 212 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:29,200 utility do we have and what kind of poles do these utility 213 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:31,880 abilities enable? If they enable us to pull bigger 214 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:35,040 because we have all these AOE lockdown abilities, great, we'll 215 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:38,200 pull bigger. If they are not enabling us to 216 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,120 do that and we instead need to pull 5 moms at a time, we'll do 217 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,600 that. And we saw Brewmaster comps, 218 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:45,520 like I was talking about, even in Season 2 when everyone's 219 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:47,640 talking about how great Vengeance, even Hunter is, those 220 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:51,360 Brewmaster physicoms, we're doing like -1 key level only. 221 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:56,440 So they were still well above title range, barely below the 222 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:00,240 the bleeding edge players. And so they're clearly showing 223 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,320 that it is not just about the utility kit. 224 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,920 It is more about the throughput and the synergy of the specs 225 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:12,280 that you're playing. And, and I think a big factor 226 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:17,560 for this season is how strong DPS specs are because I think 227 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,320 tuning is not just solid on the tank front. 228 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,800 There's a lot of good DPS specs right now, more so than I would 229 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:28,720 say in previous seasons. And you can kind of build these 230 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:32,720 comps with good DPS specs around all of these other tanks, right? 231 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,240 You can build a magic based comp around a Demon Hunter. 232 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:39,520 You can build an attack based comp around a prot warrior. 233 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,200 You can build a physical base comp around a brewmaster monk. 234 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,960 And you can build kind of these general comps around stuff like 235 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,720 guardian Druid and protection paladin, right. 236 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:51,000 So there's you have a lot more flexibility and they're just 237 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:55,800 being more strong DPS specs kind of enables these tank specs to 238 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,880 be played as well. And so with all those options, 239 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:03,200 you gave us 5 which lack core DK out in the gold there. 240 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,280 So let's let's talk about that. What what's holding DKS back 241 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,760 right now? What does blood lack that the 242 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:14,480 other tanks are bringing? So they lack consistency, I 243 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,280 would say, in terms of the ability to mitigate melee 244 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:22,760 swings, like we talked about Blizzard kind of moving towards 245 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:27,840 melee swings being the vast, vast majority of your damage 246 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:29,480 taken, especially in Mythic Plus. 247 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,880 And when you're dancing rune weapon is up, you're happy, 248 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,200 right? Like you're vibing, nothing can 249 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,360 kill you. You're death striking your life 250 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:38,200 away. It's great. 251 00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:42,040 The problem becomes in all those moments between your dancing 252 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,520 rune weapons where you don't necessarily have a lot of 253 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:47,680 coverage, right? Like Vampiric Blood and 254 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,280 Umbilicus can do some work. Obviously you always have 255 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:57,360 purgatory to lay back on, right? But they basically just have to 256 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:01,120 work infinitely harder than every other tank spec to live a 257 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,120 lot of these poles. Boss fights, they're better, but 258 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:06,800 boss fights don't tend to be the focus in a dungeon, right? 259 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,560 Like you're usually more focused on trash poles or trash poles 260 00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:13,880 onto boss fights, right for for a lot of these higher keys. 261 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,360 And so being really good against fighting one mob is not as 262 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:19,840 valuable, which blood decay is obviously very good. 263 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,440 And blood decay is obviously also a staple and raid right? 264 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:23,920 Like we even saw get the world first kill. 265 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,000 So it's not like blood Decay is bad LED DK is a very good tank 266 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,800 spec, but it's almost like a raid specialist at the moment. 267 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,280 I really think they need something in the talent tree, 268 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:35,840 maybe on a choice node with something so they don't take it 269 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,640 in raid, but something that kind of scales their defensiveness 270 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,560 against those melee swings, especially in AOE in particular 271 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,360 like that. They need, they need something 272 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,760 to help in that specific situation, I think. 273 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,400 And you know, they've, they've kind of steered away from the 274 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,480 dancing run weapon Cdr because as we saw in shadow lands in 275 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,720 season 3 and season 4, if they can just have dancing run weapon 276 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,920 all the time, they, they're crazy, right? 277 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:02,440 They're they're, they're kind of insane. 278 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:04,600 So Blizzard has steered away from that. 279 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,960 I personally kind of like the idea of giving dancing run 280 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,160 weapon on the Deathbringer sides 'cause that would have given 281 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,240 some like oh Deathbringer is like hey this is really good in 282 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,280 mythic plus and lanes the raid 1, whatever. 283 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:18,840 I think that would have been cool. 284 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:23,560 They ended up scrapping that idea and giving you bone storm 285 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,600 instead, which I I think is definitely significantly worse. 286 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:30,000 So I would like them to also go back and experiment with a 287 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:34,040 little bit more like 100% guaranteed 2 or 3 seconds of 288 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,320 dancing room weapon when you use a deathbringer scythe. 289 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:40,040 I think that could also help, but I really think the talent 290 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,080 that scales into AOE is kind of what they need instead. 291 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,480 OK, you actually mentioned something that I'd love to talk 292 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:51,280 about because The War Within is the introduction of hero 293 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,400 talents. And we have seen, of course, all 294 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,040 specs have access to two different different hero 295 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,880 talents. Some specs have loved both 296 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:04,040 options, other ones have said that one is king and the other 297 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,600 one is just absolute popper. Unless you're doing it. 298 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:10,400 That's for the themes. How has that been in The War 299 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:12,600 Within? You were just talking about 300 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,040 Death Night, so we can start there. 301 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,960 But also, I know for sure that every time I tells people that 302 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,440 I'm a Fell scarred vengeance Demon Hunter, they look at me a 303 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:26,000 little funny. So how how's it been for our 304 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:29,080 tanks? It's been, it's been fun. 305 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,520 Like I think thematically they're a lot of them are pretty 306 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,240 cool, right? Like they're they have cool 307 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,840 ideas. Some of them seem like misses. 308 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:41,320 I do wonder going into midnight if they go in there and actually 309 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,360 like delete a hero spec and add a new one in its place. 310 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,320 If there's been like a lot of negative feedback. 311 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,760 I'm trying to think of why maybe light Smith is one that I can 312 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,760 think of that has has had a it had a negative reception 313 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,840 initially. And then a lot of people I still 314 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:57,200 see are like, man, I don't want to be a light Smith. 315 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:58,840 I want to be a Templar. I want to I want to swing 316 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:00,160 hammers. I don't want to play this light, 317 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,560 even though it's like it was the best in season 1, It's looking 318 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:03,800 like the best in the current season. 319 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:05,599 A lot of people don't like playing it. 320 00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:09,000 So I do wonder if, you know, they would be willing to just 321 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,280 scrap a hero tree and put a new one in that. 322 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,680 That's an interesting idea. But but overall, I think like 323 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,040 you said, it's either the situation where one is the best 324 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,400 at everything and then you just don't play the other one, or 325 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,599 it's the situation of 1 is mythic plus and one is raid and 326 00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:27,079 you don't ever play 1 and the other right. 327 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,560 And so I think that is maybe a little less interesting. 328 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,800 It's maybe this is from a tank perspective, right. 329 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:36,720 I don't know what the DPS situation or the healer 330 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:40,120 situation is if they're switching up, but I don't know. 331 00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:43,000 I don't hate the whole mythic plus versus raid one because at 332 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:48,160 least then you have some field variation potentially, but it 333 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:52,280 definitely feels a bit a bit weird when you were only playing 334 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,080 one and you're never playing the other in any form of content. 335 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,160 Like I think Stan Lane is that right now for DKS. 336 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,960 Now like that hasn't always been true given the season as they've 337 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,840 been tuning and adjusting them, they like certain to one 338 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,960 suddenly become, Oh well, now this is the one we bring into 339 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,480 raid. Has that been interesting 340 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,200 enough? Or do you really feel like both 341 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:18,080 should be viable and you should be able to like either stick 342 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:22,440 with your guns or switch it up as you as you feel that you want 343 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:24,480 to? I know perfect balance is an 344 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:28,080 ideal that will never touch, but like, do you think they should 345 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:29,920 strive for that ideal or do you think they just should? 346 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,960 They should say, you know what? We understand that this will 347 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,800 never happen. So we're going to focus on 348 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,760 making sure you have one that's viable for for any content. 349 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,280 Yeah, I mean, I think, I think no matter what they're going to 350 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,440 do, yeah, there's there's going to be one that's better in some 351 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,240 form of content, right. Perfect balance is impossible. 352 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,320 And I think they've done a fine job at that. 353 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,320 Like, I don't think it's they've done a poor job at it. 354 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:56,600 And you know, it's, it's, it's almost like it's a player 355 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:01,040 mentality, right? Where like, oh, Sanlein is 1 1/2 356 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,840 percent ahead and Deathbringer, Deathbringer is unviable. 357 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,560 Never play Deathbringer. You know, it's like, guys, it's 358 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,960 it's 1 1/2%. You're not even playing at 100% 359 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:12,280 capacity. It's chill. 360 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,720 You can play what you want. Don't don't worry about it. 361 00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:18,960 But like there are some that have like a super significant 362 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:20,360 gaps that I also think should be addressed. 363 00:19:20,360 --> 00:19:23,080 But we can talk about Guardian. This is I think the most 364 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:26,000 egregious example where the entire expansion you have a 365 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,720 loons chosen in Mythic Plus and you have drew to the claw in 366 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,280 raid. If you tried to play loons 367 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:35,440 chosen versus like drew to the claw in raid, you were actually 368 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,120 like 20% less DPS. Like it is actually that high 369 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:43,520 because just the cat weaving damage absolutely owns a Loon's 370 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,480 chosen, which the build historically, just looking 371 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,960 throughout all three seasons is really, really bad at single 372 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,040 target damage, right? It's just it's just not built 373 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,240 for that. And so that's like a situation 374 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,440 very obviously with how the talent trees are built. 375 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,520 A Loon's chosen is for mythic plus true to the claws for raid. 376 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,880 You don't mix, right? You don't mix because true to 377 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,960 the claw has a lot of consistency problems in in 378 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:06,960 mythic plus situations. You're reliant on procs for 379 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,920 defensiveness. Which is not ideal, whereas 380 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,040 Elunes chosen is the complete opposite, right? 381 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,600 You have so much rage generation, you can spend a lot 382 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,880 more on iron furs and you are very, very consistent with a new 383 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,080 defensive button in lunar beam that drew to claw doesn't have 384 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,640 in their build, right? So it's it's kind of built for 385 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,360 Mythic plus, whereas Drew to claw is built for single target 386 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,400 And and they just been that way the entire expansion. 387 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,680 And you just have, I mean, it just has to be the intention, 388 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,280 right? Like there's, there's such a 389 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:41,720 massive gap between them that it just, it can't be by accident, I 390 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,040 feel like. But I mean, this might lead to 391 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:47,480 another discussion of Guardian just kind of being the forgotten 392 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,560 stepchild of the tanks potentially and just being tuned 393 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:53,680 all expansion, but that that's another discussion entirely. 394 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:55,600 Oh. Man, I thought that was Red 395 00:20:55,600 --> 00:21:02,000 Paladins, but again, OK, so you've had that discrepancy. 396 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,880 Have there any, have there been any tanks that are just like the 397 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:09,600 success stories where they're like so close that yes, you you 398 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,200 could be a that 1.5% behind, but go for it. 399 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,000 I mean, I think right now that's Brewmaster Monk, right? 400 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,480 Like I think Master of Harmony and Shadowpan are both like 401 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,720 solid. I don't know the actual number 402 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,960 discrepancy between them, but I'm pretty sure people are 403 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,760 playing both at a relatively high level. 404 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,080 Maybe they're leaning a little bit towards Master of Harmony 405 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,240 and Raid and a little bit towards Shadow Pan and Mythic 406 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,120 Plus, if I remember correctly. But they're both like really, 407 00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:36,760 really good and usable in both forms. 408 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,320 But, and also to be clear, like, yeah, viability wise, I think 409 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,760 everything really is usable in in both forms of content. 410 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:48,200 Outside of that, I think it's kind of waffled on the season, 411 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,200 you know, like it's, it's been kind of dependent on like the 412 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,120 tier bonuses, right? Like for example, in season 1 413 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,560 for paladins, just as an example, the tier bonus really 414 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,200 favored light Smith. It was about wings and and like 415 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:02,840 wings damage. And obviously they do a lot more 416 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,960 damage in their wings because of their just how the the talent 417 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,680 tree functions. Season 2, it's kind of swapped 418 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:13,040 in the favor of Templar a bit. And then season 3 we're going 419 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,960 back and like the light Smith tier bonus is just better than 420 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,640 the Templar tier bonus. So that's another layer as well, 421 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,760 right? The specific hero tree tier 422 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:25,880 bonuses in this tier are really impactful for affecting which 423 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,440 hero tree you're playing. I think Bratwur is another 424 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,240 example which is waffled back and forth. 425 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,680 It was like Thane and and colossus in season 1 in mythic 426 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,960 blessing raid and it was all colossus in season 2 and now 427 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:41,800 it's all thane in season 3. So like it is not a bad thing I 428 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,440 think for to swap up from tier to tier. 429 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:47,640 Like, I personally am a fan of new gameplay, every tier playing 430 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,680 the same spec just because you know, whether that's through 431 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,200 tier bonuses or whether that's through your hero tree switching 432 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,080 or whatever it is. I'm a fan of that just because 433 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,040 it it, you know, you're playing the same thing, but it feels a 434 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,560 little different, you know, And I think I like that between 435 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,200 tiers as opposed to just only between expansions, you know? 436 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,720 Yeah I I definitely agree that I have loved it but like also I 437 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,960 play enhancement shaman and both DPS shamans got like a almost a 438 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,480 rework in season 2 so it got switched up a bit. 439 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,240 And then you're right, the tier set bonuses that are doubling 440 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,800 down on our hero talents has switched things up as well. 441 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,120 So same as you or same as many tanks rather? 442 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,720 I have had a different hero spec that I have played in the 443 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,480 different tiers going back and forth between them. 444 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:42,320 So then looking at the tier bonuses in season 2 in Undermine 445 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,200 we had a lot of tier bonuses that were proc based and had the 446 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:50,360 like jackpot and so forth. Kind of cool for DPS, not 447 00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:53,160 something I would like if I was a tank and looking for some 448 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,600 consistency. How was that feeling for the 449 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,520 tanks in Season 2? Man, never give me those tier 450 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,320 bonuses again. That's OK. 451 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:04,560 Here's here's the problem with them. 452 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,200 OK, just just real quick, I won't I won't go too far, but 453 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:13,360 it's like, OK, tanks hate RNG defensiveness, right? 454 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:21,240 What can make that OK is if the RNG defensive either is not too 455 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,080 low of a proc rate, right? It's got like a fairly decent 456 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:29,680 decent proc rate or the duration on the random proc defensive is, 457 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:34,360 is decent so that you don't have to react in a 2 second window 458 00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:37,680 and you can see, oh, I got this proc, I'm good for the next 8 to 459 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,160 10 seconds. The undermine tier bonuses were 460 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,560 neither of those. They were both very RNG, very 461 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,600 low proc rate. I would go polls with a 0 procs 462 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,880 on some boss fights for example. Sometimes you get one or two, 463 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,560 sometimes you get like 10. And they were also I think 4 464 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:59,640 second duration defensive procs. So if they propped when you like 465 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:04,600 weren't actively tanking for example, or they propped when 466 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,520 you had just pressed your defensive, like a different 467 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,040 defensive, right, it's just entirely useless almost. 468 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:14,680 So if they're going to do something like an RNG defensive 469 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,760 proc for tanks, they need to either make the proc more 470 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,840 frequent or make the proc a longer duration, and either of 471 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:23,520 those would have made them infinitely better. 472 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,560 I'm going to also throw in from my little bit of tanking, which 473 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:33,120 I don't do anywhere near your level, but I would also be fine 474 00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:36,920 with the procs just reducing a cooldown on a defensive so that 475 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,520 like, yeah, so then I can use it again or I mean, type use it. 476 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:45,120 But yeah, you're you're right. I I kind of baited that question 477 00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:47,240 because I just needed it that with somebody with, you know, a 478 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:52,600 bit more authority. So then moving from Undermine 479 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:57,920 Casino madness and then going into this latest season, I was 480 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,680 annoyed again because of the Rishi wraps. 481 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,560 Yeah, I feel that they once again did that. 482 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:08,440 But the tier bonuses are are much different this time around. 483 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,720 And so The thing is, because they are based on the hero 484 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,400 talents and because they are very impactful on those hero 485 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,720 talents, there are some definite winners and losers this tier. 486 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:25,520 So tell us about that situation. Yeah, I mean, not only are the 487 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,280 tier bonuses like, yeah, they're hero spec base so you can feast 488 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,000 your famine almost depending on tier bonus, but the actual 489 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,400 throughput value of these tier bonuses is way higher than the 490 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:39,440 last two tiers, like 20 plus percent across multiple of the 491 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,600 specs. Like it's it's pretty normal for 492 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,440 it to be around like a 20% output increase. 493 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,560 Like it's, it's kind of wild, especially when the previous 494 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,080 tier bonuses were absolutely nowhere near that. 495 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,120 Like I think especially for tanks, they were like sub 10% 496 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,800 and and now we're up over 20, which is is wild. 497 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,080 And yeah and yeah, you're seeing you're seeing some massive 498 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,600 swings like mountain thing is the is probably the biggest 499 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,200 example, right? It has never been a raid spec 500 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,440 really right. It was the mythic plus in season 501 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:11,880 1, not used in season 2, and now the tier set is so powerful. 502 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,280 One of the most powerful tier sets in the game right now, by 503 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,640 the way, like not even just across tanks, like across all 504 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,200 specs in the game is mountain Dane, Prowl warrior, and they're 505 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,760 just owning like they they're it is fun too, right, because this 506 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,840 this is a good RNG right? Your thunderblast procs. 507 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,200 I think it's like a 35% chance, so high chance when you get this 508 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,880 proc that you get quite frequently to just hit again or 509 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,840 a reset, sorry, is basically what the tier bonus is. 510 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:40,480 And so that's cool or that's fun. 511 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,480 You get an extra button press. It happens quite frequently, 512 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:45,920 deals a ton of damage. It's good. 513 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:50,240 I'm a big fan of it. And I think again, not all RNG 514 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,280 is bad. RNG can be good, but it needs to 515 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,400 be the right level of RNG. And I think, you know, the 516 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,280 mountain thing is a is a good example of that. 517 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,240 And I think just generally a lot of the tank bonuses are a lot 518 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,120 more offensive focus this tier as opposed to defense like we 519 00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:07,080 saw in liberation of undermine the RNG defense. 520 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,280 It's almost like they went pure damage here, which I know I'm a 521 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,200 fan of, but I know there are some people that are just like 522 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,560 tanks should tank. They should just be tanky. 523 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,360 Don't worry about damage. I I like doing big numbers. 524 00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:22,000 I don't know. I do like the the big numbers. 525 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,920 I do love this one because not just that that it is damage, but 526 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,640 because it gives you the button to press, you're always able to 527 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,560 capitalize on it unless like there's some like proc that you 528 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,520 munch because you didn't hit the button fast enough. 529 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,160 But as an offensive proc, there's no reason not to hit 530 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,800 that that damage as soon as you get it. 531 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:44,840 So it you're right, it's a lot of fun. 532 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:50,200 It is basically ADPS. It is ADPS tear set on a tank. 533 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:55,240 But there is another part that it it helps with is that as 534 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,720 you're getting these procs, as you're doing more damage, that's 535 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,280 helping the threat issue that tanks had. 536 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:05,560 And I, I got to ask you about this because the war within it 537 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:09,480 felt like it was going OK. And then suddenly in season 2, I 538 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,360 just kept hearing about threat issues after threat issues. 539 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,520 And that's when I started learning about particular spells 540 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,880 that because you weren't in combat, they weren't doing 541 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,400 damage and therefore not threat. And so I, I guess I got to wrap 542 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,480 those two questions in together. What's been the issue with 543 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,280 threat and what's been the issue with these bugs when you're 544 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,120 tanking? Yeah. 545 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:34,920 So I think initially the problem started kind of twofold, right? 546 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,800 And tanks got these pretty mediocre defensive oriented, a 547 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,280 little bit of damage in some cases, but mostly defensive 548 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,480 oriented tier bonuses and DPS did not. 549 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,760 And so, you know, the scaling in season 2 just went drastically 550 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,040 in DPS players favor over tank specs. 551 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,920 That was combined with the, the, the vengeance even hunter 552 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,480 effect, where you know, like all these tank players were swapping 553 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,000 to Vengeance and Vengeance notoriously just has bugs, which 554 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,560 at this point might be considered features of the spec 555 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,240 where the aggro doesn't work right. 556 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,640 Like if you're not in combat with the mobs when you sigil a 557 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,160 flame, you're not doing any aggro. 558 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,840 If you're you're glave, whether it's a reaper's glave or not 559 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,080 doesn't do any aggro. There's you know, there's a lot 560 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,760 of, you know, quirks to Venice team hunter combined with the 561 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,640 the, the fact they're playing a capped build. 562 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,600 They were heavily target capped, but they were doing gigantic 563 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:34,800 pulls. And so it became quite an issue 564 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,960 maintaining aggro if you're trying to do those poles because 565 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,880 you basically had to go in and make sure that you had built up 566 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:47,080 an Aldraki Reaver uncapped flurry ability because that was 567 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:48,760 the only thing you had that was uncapped. 568 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,000 So if you're doing any of these big poles, you had to make sure 569 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,560 you had one of those ready to actually build threat. 570 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,240 And even then, you would randomly just lose threat on 571 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,960 like the one priority mob 30 seconds into a pole because the 572 00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:03,240 arcane mage is just doing 30 times your damage to that mob 573 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:04,520 and there's nothing you can do about it. 574 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:05,840 So you just have to be ready to taunt. 575 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,200 So it's it's stuff like that, right? 576 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:13,440 It's just a big portion is just the damage of DPS out scaling 577 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:18,760 the damage gains of of tanks. And I think these tier bonuses 578 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,480 is an acknowledgement of Blizzard that OK, maybe we do 579 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,240 need to give tanks a bit more damage. 580 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,960 Maybe maybe we went a little bit too hard and out of the 581 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,240 direction because he's on a multiple Band-Aid buff threat at 582 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,320 the end of season 2 and that didn't really help out too much. 583 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,320 And it was still a pretty pretty significant problem just because 584 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,400 of that damage gap. But I think it's been not not a 585 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,600 problem, but much less of a problem so far this season. 586 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,120 There are still issues on grouping and DPS getting antsy 587 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:51,760 and and pulling stuff or whatever. 588 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,920 But I think it's much less of an issue if you like losing threat 589 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,200 30 seconds into a pole. Which is just the most 590 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,000 frustrating thing because like if you're a tank player doing 591 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:05,760 your rotation correctly or even like 80% correctly, I don't see 592 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,360 why you would ever lose threat like you. 593 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,640 You shouldn't mechanically, right? 594 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,840 If you're kiting and doing weird stuff, sure right? 595 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:14,920 Then that's probably why threaded exists as a mechanic. 596 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:20,320 But if I'm doing my rotation 80% correctly with ADPS doing their 597 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,360 rotation 90% correctly, I should still hold thread on them? 598 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,720 I feel like. I don't know, maybe that's a hot 599 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,360 take. It's not a hot take. 600 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:32,560 You're gonna get pushed back from here, but I I generally 601 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,760 have had like a couple of times where like, you know, the burst 602 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:37,960 has gone off and I'm sorry I had procs. 603 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:43,040 And I feel like that shouldn't result in an absolute scare 604 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,880 situation, not even like, oh, we have to think panics and is able 605 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,200 to put it together. I don't think there should ever 606 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,720 be a panic. I think that at least initially, 607 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,440 maybe snap threat needs to be like something that tanks should 608 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,440 have. And then over time, if you are 609 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,200 consistently there, that's when the tank needs to start looking 610 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,560 at the threat. Yeah, there is of course a lot 611 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:10,280 that you need to do as a tank to make sure you're on top of the 612 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,600 threat, even know what the threat is. 613 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,080 And a lot of that's being dealt with with add-ons back in the 614 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:20,800 day was Omen threat meter. And since then it's been baked 615 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,640 into a lot of things. So now it's on the name bars if 616 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:28,600 you're using using like tidy plates or plater or any number 617 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,520 of different add-ons. And in fact, a lot of things 618 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,920 that we do are using add-ons. What are the kind of add-ons 619 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:40,960 that like currently are must haves in order to do tanking at 620 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,520 a sufficient level? And like with Blizzard now 621 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,400 looking to pare back the add-ons, especially in combat, 622 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,560 what are the things that Blizzard has to have baked in if 623 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,960 they're going to stop the US from using these add-ons? 624 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,680 Yeah, so I think, I think the big ones people always talk 625 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,720 about, right, Like I want a way to display my ability 626 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,320 information, which a lot of people use weak wear packs for. 627 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,960 But I think the cooldown manager has kind of been their initial 628 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,239 answer. Obviously the first iteration of 629 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:14,239 the cool down manager was not great, but the update coming in 630 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:18,199 next patch 1125 looks solid and I expect this to get updated as 631 00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:22,480 well over the next year or two. And I think it'll be in a 632 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,199 similar spot. It'll be able to replace 633 00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:27,080 essentially those weak word packs, which I think is is a 634 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,600 good thing, right? It's, you know, lightweight in 635 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,239 the game included intuitive for people to use. 636 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,679 I think that's only a positive and that's also just my general 637 00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:41,120 feeling about Blizzard adding these in game alternatives to 638 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,239 add-ons. I think it's only positive for 639 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:48,239 the game assuming they get them right before they turn off 640 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,679 combat add-ons, right? That's my that was my concern. 641 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,239 It looks like they are taking their time right? 642 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,800 They announced they're going to be adding I think what name 643 00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:01,040 plates, damage meters and boss mods in midnight. 644 00:35:01,720 --> 00:35:05,840 And it doesn't necessarily. Boss mods as a full package but 645 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,440 at least timers for. Timers yes, yes, yeah, but it 646 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,480 doesn't seem like they're turning off other add-ons at the 647 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,920 same time, right. It seems like they're going to 648 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:21,120 be in game and you know, getting iterations while we still have 649 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,960 access to other add-ons. So that is good because it gives 650 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,640 them time to actually make them usable as opposed to just 651 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,640 ripping away all our add-ons and us having what do we do here? 652 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:36,040 What is this so I'm I'm positive feeling about it. 653 00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:37,840 They definitely need to make sure they get it right though, 654 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,720 right plater a big one you're talking about their name plates 655 00:35:40,720 --> 00:35:43,160 apparently is going to show threat is what they were talking 656 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,560 about threat they were talking about I think back hits as well 657 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,440 like you will get an indicator on the name plates if a mob is 658 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:49,920 behind you attacking from behind. 659 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,160 That's amazing right like that. That is a great change for new 660 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,720 tank players that do not understand that if a mob is 661 00:35:55,720 --> 00:35:58,320 behind you, you are not really effectively mitigating it at 662 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,000 all. Especially on certain tank specs 663 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,560 that rely on like block, Perrier, dog. 664 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,720 That's a great indicator. It's great for new players, it's 665 00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:06,520 built into the game. Love it. 666 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,000 Are you going to be able to recolor certain plates? 667 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,720 Are you going to be able to just choose what debuffs and buffs 668 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,240 you show on it? Who knows, that could be 669 00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:20,720 overlooked. I think it needs to be included 670 00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:24,960 for it to be a viable nameplate solution and something you would 671 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:26,920 use over something like Plater, right? 672 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,920 The ability to recolor, the ability to emphasize, even to 673 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,320 make disappear for certain mobs, to whitelist and blacklist 674 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,360 certain debuffs and buffs. That kind of thing is all very, 675 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,600 very important because there are some specs, for example, that 676 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,680 blanket debuffs on mobs and you only really care about the 677 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,320 duration of one or two of them, right? 678 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,880 There's multi daughter specs and maybe you really want to know, 679 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,920 OK, I want all the name plates to be blue that have my shadow 680 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,600 word pane and then anything that's not blue, I know I need 681 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,280 to continue dotting it, right? Stuff like that I think needs to 682 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:02,240 be included, but we'll have to wait and see what the first 683 00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:04,680 iteration of it was. The images I saw from the the 684 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,240 panel at Gamescon, they looked like they were much further 685 00:37:07,240 --> 00:37:11,640 along on those than they were on the the cool down managers. 686 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,240 So that's a good sign. But yeah, we'll have to wait and 687 00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:18,440 see. OK aren't there are some things 688 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:24,520 that weak ores and plater and everything include that some 689 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,240 people might consider superfluous? 690 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:31,200 One of the things that came out was not being able to track 691 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:35,480 externals cooldown. So like when you are going 692 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,600 through a Mythic Plus or when you are doing a raid, knowing 693 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,760 that you have abilities from your healers is something that a 694 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,120 lot of tanks use. Do you? 695 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,320 At one point Blizzard had sort of said, OK, that's not 696 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:53,320 something that we want you to have, But I think since then 697 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,560 they've sort of gone back against that. 698 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,080 Yeah, I think they backtracked it, if I remember correctly. 699 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,320 I don't, I don't remember 100%. But I mean, I definitely think 700 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:07,120 that's important to know because what is the value in hiding that 701 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,040 like there are some things where I'm like, OK, this makes sense. 702 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:11,720 Blizzard does not want us to have it. 703 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:17,880 An example, the spell CDs on name plates from little wigs and 704 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:19,520 big wigs, we're just right next to the mob. 705 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,600 Hey, this ability is going to be off cooldown for the next 24 706 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,240 seconds. I can see them being like, hey, 707 00:38:25,240 --> 00:38:27,880 not only is this break immersion, we don't want you to 708 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,200 have this information. Don't you don't have that. 709 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,720 So they'd take it away, right? That that I would be totally 710 00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:34,840 fine with. Taking away the ability to see 711 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,080 other people's cooldowns is a bit odd. 712 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,400 I don't want to hear that it's for some PvP reason. 713 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:45,240 I'm sure they can fix it for PvP, but like for Pve, I feel 714 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:50,760 like like if you're just communicating with the players 715 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:56,120 in voice for example, it's just another advantage to being in 716 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:57,760 voice versus in a pug environment. 717 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,640 Maybe people will just make macros that spam all the time, 718 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,720 you know what I mean? It's just there's no reason to 719 00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:05,000 hide that information. I guess that's the point I'm 720 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,440 getting at. Yeah, I had suspected that if 721 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,280 they had stuck with their guns, we were going to get the 722 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:18,600 basically analogous thing to the macros where it would, when you 723 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,840 used it, it would send a command being like, it's on cooldown for 724 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,080 Bing, and then create A and create it anyways. 725 00:39:23,240 --> 00:39:26,240 So I did think that there was a good way for them to stop it 726 00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:29,120 without like, utterly shredding the API in general. 727 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,640 But yeah, my question was going to be, are there some things 728 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,240 where you're like, yeah, this is superfluous and if we don't have 729 00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:38,000 it, we're still going to go along just fine? 730 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,160 There's certainly some weak aura stuff, right? 731 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,480 Like, and, and this also comes kind of hand in hand with their 732 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,160 encounter design where they're like, we have to design stuff 733 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,080 thinking that you're going to have weak auras, right? 734 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,400 Like we, if you look, we're progressing on Mythic Nexus King 735 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,240 right now, right? You get into phase three and 736 00:39:57,240 --> 00:40:01,520 this map just pops up on your screen showing you exactly where 737 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,680 to drop your your stars where so that you'll get pulled to a 738 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,320 specific spot in the room. It's like. 739 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,520 Man, this boss would have been so much cooler if that didn't 740 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,640 exist, right? Like that, that kind of 741 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:14,960 functionality. Fractalis is the perfect 742 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,480 example. The Tetris boss that is just 743 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,560 solved by a text week aura that tells you where to stand at all 744 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,480 times, whether it's the safe spot, where to put a wall, where 745 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:26,440 to break a wall, it just tells you where to go. 746 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,600 That boss could have been way cooler if they maybe slowed it 747 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,280 down a little bit and you just didn't have that week aura, but 748 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,880 you just had to play the fight as they intended, right? 749 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:39,200 So I think, I think there are a lot of situations where we would 750 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,040 be better off with them removing some of the things we currently 751 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,680 have access to. One thing that they did provide 752 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:50,840 for us that is a little bit unique for tanks is the single 753 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:56,560 button rotation that helps DPS get to like a percentage of 754 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:58,920 their damage. It is something that very spec 755 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:03,000 to spec, but obviously that doesn't do much help for you as 756 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:04,640 a tank. Do you think that there's 757 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:10,200 something that they could add to help people learn tanking or do 758 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,880 you feel that the SPR is good enough as a start? 759 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,360 And it's like no, no, no, things happen. 760 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:21,520 You should learn how to manage it just from like raw effort. 761 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,240 Yeah, I mean, well, the single button rotation problem is that 762 00:41:24,240 --> 00:41:26,880 it never presses anything off the global cooldown, right? 763 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:30,240 So it's like if you're playing a warrior, it's not pressing 764 00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:31,760 shield block. I don't think it's pressing 765 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:33,920 ignore pane either, right? It's not pressing any of. 766 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,880 Your it doesn't press defensives or utility at all, Yeah. 767 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,120 Yeah. So it's like, I personally would 768 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:44,200 more recommend the rotation assist setting 'cause I think 769 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:48,160 that's a bit more, it's, it's also a better learning tool in 770 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,000 my opinion to see that abilities highlighted and kind of get a 771 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,720 feel for like the frequency of things. 772 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,200 I still don't know if that recommends defensive abilities, 773 00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,320 to be honest with you. I haven't used it personally, 774 00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,640 but I think that's just a, a better general thing for someone 775 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,880 trying to learn the game. Like if you don't care about 776 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,840 that stuff, go go to town with the one button assist. 777 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,400 But if you're trying to learn a spec, I actually think that's 778 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,960 bad to use the one button assist and you should use the rotation 779 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,400 assist instead, which is the highlighting thing. 780 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,240 I think that's a better learning tool. 781 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,960 But yeah, I mean, I wonder if there's like almost like 782 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,640 tutorial type things that they could do for for tank and healer 783 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:30,240 players because this thing doesn't really work for them as 784 00:42:30,240 --> 00:42:32,680 well as it does for DPS players. You know, I know they said 785 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:37,160 they're redoing the whole tutorial island, I think in 786 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,840 midnight. But yeah, you know, giving some 787 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,960 sort of tank tutorial or healer tutorial I think would be 788 00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,800 beneficial to get players into those roles which, you know, are 789 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:52,520 less popular. Yeah, I mean, I, I definitely 790 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,080 think that things like the interrupt tutorial that they're 791 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,920 speaking about and so forth are going to help some new players. 792 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,480 I worry that like returning players will say, oh, I don't 793 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,120 need that, not realizing how much the game has changed 794 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,200 because they're like, if you played in BC, yeah, crowd 795 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:15,320 control was king. If you play in like BFAAOE, 796 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:19,120 stops were king. If you play now, you can cause 797 00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:23,080 havoc by just spamming AOE stops and and syncing them all up. 798 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,480 So learning that stuff as it changes is something that 799 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,680 Blizzard is going to have to make sure that they're updating 800 00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,400 the tutorials along with that. But tutorials are definitely a 801 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:38,320 help. But looking at what you think 802 00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:44,680 tanks would need, what do you think Blizzard should add to the 803 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:50,160 game to help tanks? And actually at the beginning of 804 00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:54,240 the War Within, they spoke about a defensive clawback. 805 00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:57,640 They had already said, OK, like healers are going wild and 806 00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,840 dragonfly and we need to do some adjustments here. 807 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,120 They got into this, said, hey, next, next expansion, we're 808 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:07,880 looking at a defensive clawback. What do you expect from that? 809 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,480 Yeah, that's interesting. So they did mention at the 810 00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,120 beginning of War Within. I'm glad you brought that up 811 00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,680 because they have not mentioned it since then. 812 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,600 We'll have to see if they remembered or if they're just 813 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:22,400 like, oh, we don't have time for this. 814 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,720 Let's push that away. Because I think, I think this is 815 00:44:25,720 --> 00:44:27,880 actually primarily focused not at tank players, right? 816 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,320 This is primarily focused at DPS players and healers where they 817 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:35,080 have too many defensive tools. And I think even the hero trees 818 00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:37,400 were kind of a problem with that because every single hero tree 819 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,800 has an additional defensive node in it, which is kind of further 820 00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:45,760 resulting in bursty healing profiles as opposed to rot 821 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:47,760 healing profiles, especially in raid. 822 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,360 Like you basically just playing putting all your cooldowns where 823 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,400 the burst damage happens and then you feel like a wet noodle 824 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,600 outside of your cooldown as a healer player is my 825 00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:57,520 understanding. I don't do that. 826 00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,760 I don't know what healers do, Who knows, but that's what 827 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,040 they're saying. And defensive bloat is a 828 00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:08,640 contributor of that because they have to challenge for the amount 829 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,280 of defensiveness that your group is bringing, right? 830 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,760 We saw a similar thing in Mythic plus I think in Dragon fight 831 00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:19,040 season 2 where you had the one shot meta where like you went at 832 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,680 a certain key level. Maybe it was season 3 actually, 833 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:22,760 I can't remember off the top of my head. 834 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:27,080 But like at a certain key level, it went from, oh, all this 835 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,800 damage is kind of free and literally one key level up. 836 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,720 Oh, everything is one shot in me. 837 00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,280 And all of a sudden you had to come up with a defensive 838 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,840 rotation to cover every single ability and the meta comp could. 839 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,080 And if you didn't have that, you would just die to those 840 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:44,120 abilities, right? So it's, it's, that's clearly 841 00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,800 what they're trying to avoid. Cuz that has never been as bad 842 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:48,960 as it was that season. And they've been doing better 843 00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,120 with it. But yeah, I think the further 844 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:55,960 you go in expansion, the more problematic it seems to become. 845 00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:01,720 I'm curious if the stat squish will do anything in that sense. 846 00:46:01,720 --> 00:46:03,640 Cuz obviously they've announced there is going to be a stat 847 00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,280 squish in midnight. So that might help. 848 00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:07,880 I, I don't know. But yeah, it would be 849 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,680 interesting to see if they, the, the number of abilities they end 850 00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,760 up pruning defensively from classes like mages are a great 851 00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,320 example. They have like 5000 defensive 852 00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,840 buttons, right? Are they going to leave them 853 00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:24,160 with only like ice block and alter time and take away 854 00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:27,560 everything else? It's possible, but it wondered 855 00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:31,240 it's, it's just kind of how far they want to go with it, which 856 00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:33,080 it's going to be very interesting. 857 00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,240 On the tank front though, I am kind of under the assumption 858 00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:39,640 that tanks are going to be excluded from this, but but who 859 00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,200 knows, maybe not. Maybe we'll get collateral too. 860 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,720 I, I think it is a very strange thing to look at and I really 861 00:46:47,720 --> 00:46:49,760 wanted to start this conversation with the tanks 862 00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,160 because defensives are so important to you. 863 00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,480 There's a number of things that you kind of look at. 864 00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:59,040 There is the like if you have a tank death that might mean a 865 00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,880 wipe because by the time that rez goes out the tank can get 866 00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:06,440 the threat again. 2-3 DPS have already bid it. 867 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:11,720 There's also a matter of the fact that DPS and tanks and all 868 00:47:11,720 --> 00:47:17,400 the specs have a lot of the utility and defensives on their 869 00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:22,040 class tree, which means that if you're going to attack those, 870 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:24,640 it's going to affect the tanks in in turn. 871 00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:28,040 Unless they do what they did with Paladins when they did the 872 00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:31,600 Paladin revamp and they had a lot of this stuff on. 873 00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:34,520 The classes actually differ based on your spec. 874 00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:40,960 If they were to do a defensive claw and it did affect tanks, do 875 00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,320 you think that it's, I guess going back to the early 876 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,760 conversation, do you think it's something where it's going to 877 00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:51,560 have to be pared back enough in effectiveness that your 878 00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:58,360 tankiness is not so far above DPS and healers outside of your 879 00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,880 cooldowns? Or pull back the cooldowns so 880 00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,680 that you don't have to have a cooldown ready at all times. 881 00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:10,240 Yeah, I'm definitely more in favor of you just generally 882 00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:14,160 being like your cooldowns being a little bit weaker and you 883 00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:18,320 being baseline a bit stronger. Like I think a great example was 884 00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:23,480 like Venthier Guardian Druid in Shadow Lands where you were just 885 00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:27,720 a beast for 30 seconds in your cooldowns and then you could 886 00:48:27,720 --> 00:48:30,800 have just done anything you wanted in the 2 1/2 minutes 887 00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:34,120 between that and your next incarn and it would have made no 888 00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:37,760 difference whatsoever. That is the worst as a tank, 889 00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:41,360 like like especially like, Oh yeah, I'm going to pull 4 packs 890 00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:42,960 together at once. We do that all right. 891 00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:46,520 Now I am pulling a singular pack at a time and I'm scared for my 892 00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:49,520 life, right? Like this one singular pack is 893 00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:52,880 absolutely owning me. I just that that is like the 894 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:56,320 worst thing for me about these cool down reliant tanks. 895 00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,920 And, and to be fair to Blizzard, they've moved drastically away 896 00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:01,760 from that right? It's we're nowhere near that 897 00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,320 situation anymore and I prefer it that way. 898 00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,160 I prefer not having the massive cooldown reliance, especially 899 00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:12,440 when it comes to survivability. And it just kind of depends on 900 00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,000 the number of tools that spec has as well, right? 901 00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,920 Like some specs are built around you chaining a bunch of 902 00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,960 cooldowns, some aren't. And I think that's also fine to 903 00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:25,400 have these varying play styles. Paladin is that example, right? 904 00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:29,160 Like Paladin is all about chaining your cooldowns together 905 00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:33,200 to kind of build this cohesive defensive layer at all times. 906 00:49:33,720 --> 00:49:37,440 And you are going to have some downtime on those and you kind 907 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,800 of need to, you know, figure out what am I going to do to solve 908 00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,560 those moments of downtime? And it's kind of an interesting 909 00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,080 puzzle. Now, is it a bit too challenging 910 00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:48,720 and maybe a bit too far with the defensive terms they've received 911 00:49:48,720 --> 00:49:49,960 already? Maybe. 912 00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:55,600 But I, I enjoy that kind of play style and I also enjoy the big 913 00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,800 burst play style like something like prop warrior, right, where 914 00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,760 you know your main cooldown avatar is just just pure damage, 915 00:50:03,240 --> 00:50:04,880 right? And your defensive abilities are 916 00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:08,440 generally more shorter cooldown stuff that you can kind of use 917 00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:10,680 as needed. All of shield wall, spell 918 00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:14,680 reflect and demo shout short cooldown, but you're not 919 00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:17,920 layering them right because you have this baseline defense of 920 00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,880 shield block that is very, very strong to incoming damage, 921 00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:23,440 especially when paired with ignore pain. 922 00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:27,080 So it's like I I don't mind the differences between specs and I 923 00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,800 think they're actually important to to maintain no matter what 924 00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:33,440 they do with defensives that you don't make everything too samey, 925 00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,560 if that makes sense. No, that definitely makes sense. 926 00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:40,560 OK, so then we're we're running a little bit low on time, so I 927 00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:44,840 just want to throw some quick fire at you in midnight. 928 00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,000 We're gonna get Apex talents. Yeah. 929 00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:50,400 And so I'm not gonna get you to guess what the Apex talent is, 930 00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:57,920 but if you could solve each each class's weakness with their Apex 931 00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,560 talent, what would be the general idea? 932 00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:03,120 How would you help tanks with their Apex talent? 933 00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:10,520 Oh, I mean, that's that's tough. So I think I think OK, here, 934 00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:12,280 here. So for vengeance Stephen Hunter, 935 00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:16,240 it's just your threat done is increased by 1000%. 936 00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:21,640 OK, that's my vengeance team Hunter one for blood decays. 937 00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:23,920 We'll we'll fix their AOE damage intake. 938 00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:27,440 Yeah, just like the more mobs you're fighting, you get like, I 939 00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:32,280 don't know, 10% increased armor or something like that. 940 00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:34,400 I I don't know, making it up right make. 941 00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:41,680 It up, yeah. Guardian Druid something not 942 00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:45,040 incarn related. I'm begging just not incarn 943 00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:48,320 related. Please, please pick something 944 00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:52,000 else. Paladin. 945 00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:58,440 Paladin is interesting. I'm actually not really sure 946 00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:03,720 what you would do with Paladin something not related to 947 00:52:03,720 --> 00:52:06,880 consecrate. How's that not consecrate 948 00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:08,280 related? Something else? 949 00:52:09,240 --> 00:52:12,200 A lot of something not they something they shouldn't do as 950 00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:13,880 opposed to something they should do here. 951 00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:20,200 What it what I'm missing Brewmaster and I'm missing oh 952 00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:23,800 prot warrior? Let's do Brewmaster first. 953 00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:25,920 Brewmaster first. OK, I don't know if I'm 954 00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:28,000 qualified to talk about brewmaster. 955 00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:35,040 Let's say Brewmaster. So because they they all love Ox 956 00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:39,600 so much, let's just say something about about Ox just to 957 00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,600 make all the actual Brewmaster Manes very mad at me. 958 00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:48,360 The ox gets up and follows you. Pet class. 959 00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:51,200 Wait, yes, it makes Brewmaster a pet class. 960 00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:56,240 That's what I'm doing, yes. So you just have perma ox and 961 00:52:56,240 --> 00:52:58,120 yeah, no, that's good. I like that. 962 00:53:00,240 --> 00:53:03,680 And then prompt warrior, just give him spell block back. 963 00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:05,560 There you go. Spell block, Yeah. 964 00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:07,960 Apex talent we gave you back spell block. 965 00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:10,360 Yeah, it's good. There we go. 966 00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:17,320 OK, thank you so much for this. I, I wish we had more time, but 967 00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:19,760 we've got a lot coming up in midnight. 968 00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:24,320 I'm sure as we get closer to the alpha that will be in the coming 969 00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:27,480 weeks, we're going to get a lot more information and see where 970 00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:30,280 things go. Thank you so much for being on 971 00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:31,200 the show today. And tactics. 972 00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:34,760 Where can people find you when you are not riling up poor brew 973 00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:38,120 masters? Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm tactics 974 00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:43,280 TACTYKS on on pretty much all platforms on on YouTube is where 975 00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:46,440 I post a lot of guide content for dungeons, raid and tanks 976 00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:51,520 stream on YouTube and on Twitch. I randomly tweet stuff on on 977 00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:54,040 Twitter as well. So yeah, it turns out if you 978 00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:56,440 spell your name incorrectly, you can just get it on all 979 00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:57,720 platforms. Let's go. 980 00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:02,680 That is awesome. And then for me, I chose to 981 00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:04,920 spell my name incorrectly as well, so I have it on all 982 00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,760 platforms. You can find me as true Villa 983 00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:10,080 Manny. That's true without the E on all 984 00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,840 platforms. And until next time guys, may 985 00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:14,200 all your hits be crits.