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I mean, it just depends on what 
you want hero talents to be, 

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right? 
Like depending on who I talk to,

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there's a lot of like variants 
there. 

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We have some people that came in
now over the last few days and 

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say like, OK, do I have to learn
two hero trees? 

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Because if I have to learn two 
hero trees I would just play 

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different spec Victory for the 
Forsaken. 

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For Lauderon. 
For the Karen tour. 

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For Pandaria. 
For calendar to. 

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The burning region for Gilnaeus,
but has not died for the Lich 

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King for the Sindora. 
For the alliance. 

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For the horn for Azeroth. 
Hello and welcome to another 

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special episode of For Azrok in 
my series where we talk to the 

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people who know what in the 
world is going on in the World 

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of Warcraft, the guide riders, 
the three crafters, the people 

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who like dig into stuff. 
And joining me is a great friend

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of mine. 
Mr. Hawk. 

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How are you and how's World of 
Warcraft been treating you? 

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Oh yeah, I mean stressful, 
right? 

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Like that's how every patch 
releases. 

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I think we'd currently in the 
process of US or NA getting 

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their patch deployed right. 
So I think in a few hours, is 

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that about right? 
It's, it's going to be Tuesday 

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with extended maintenance that 
goes through to 3:00 PM PST. 

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Yeah. 
So it's it's going to be a. 

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Little more time zones. 
Yeah. 

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And then obviously that's when 
we in NA start actually beta 

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testing and hopefully it's good 
for you guys. 

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Yeah, that would be. 
But there is a lot happening and

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a lot happening to our classes. 
So for those who don't know you,

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can you tell us about yourself 
in the class that you like to 

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talk about? 
Yeah, So hi, I'm Hawk. 

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Hawk Hogan I've been doing 
elemental shaman theory crafting

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and like tool support I guess 
for the last, what is it now, 

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eight years or something. 
Started doing Wow analyzer back 

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when and then slowly worked my 
way into like simulation craft 

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and do like theory crafting, 
crunching some numbers and 

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trying to figure out how the 
game works, how the spec works, 

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how to do it properly, how to 
play the class. 

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Still in the process of figuring
that one out, but I do think 

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that I have at least a good 
theoretical some good 

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theoretical knowledge about the 
spec. 

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Of course, of course, it's 
always a moving target, so even 

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when you do figure something 
out, it might change on you in 

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the next path. 
For the Elemental Shaman, 

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something that is near and dear 
to my heart, it's been quite the

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journey. 
Over the course of The War 

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Within we've had entire 
cooldowns completely changed 

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over, we've had our on and off 
again love affair with Flame 

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Shock, and even that is 
changing. 

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Can you tell me, in your 
opinion, how things have gone 

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for Elemental through The War 
Within? 

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I mean, it's been turbulent to 
say the least, right? 

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Getting like a full on Wework, 
which I mean they didn't touch 

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like the bass spells I guess, 
but still like everything kind 

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of changes or changed. 
Previously we had like different

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build types depending on like 
which of our fillers we were 

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just spamming because that's 
just what kind of always 

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happened. 
And they just kind of took 

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offence with that if we just 
ignored one of our main like 

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minor coolers, our major 
fillers, I guess, depending on 

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whichever one it was, right. 
And so they just reworked 

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everything. 
Turns out every time something 

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gets reworked, it gets kind of 
strong. 

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So we got nerved quite a bit. 
Still ended up being pretty 

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good, not going to lie. 
And yeah, like in the end of the

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expansion. 
Now, I personally think that the

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gameplay was pretty good. 
It was very fun to play and 

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yeah, I mean still very strong. 
So I think they ended up in a 

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good position with The War 
Within and now with Midnight 

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there will be changes. 
So I think we're going to talk 

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about that one. 
Yeah, definitely. 

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But before we do, I'd love to 
talk a little bit more about the

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hero talents, because of course 
The War Within was the 

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introduction of the hero 
talents. 

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We had both the Farseer and of 
course the Stormbringer hero 

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talents for Elemental. 
And there's been sort of like a 

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back and forth between the two 
and sometimes one was the Mythic

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plus build and one was the raid 
build. 

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And they've been changing. 
So like overall have has 

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Elemental benefited from these 
hero talents and have they been 

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like overall a good thing? 
I mean, it just depends on what 

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you want hero talents to be, 
right? 

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Like depending on who I talk to,
there's a lot of like variants 

85
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there. 
We have some people that came in

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now over the last few days and 
say like, OK, do I have to learn

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to hero trees? 
Because if I have to learn to 

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hero trees, I would just play 
different spec. 

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And for us, how it's 
traditionally been, it's like 

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Farsi as the rating, the single 
target build, right? 

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And storm bringer, like the AOE 
just burn everything in the 

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build, right? 
And that is more or less stayed 

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the same, right? 
Like Farsi is playable in mythic

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plus definitely does better boss
damage and a few dungeons like 

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usually like one or two dungeons
each season. 

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It does see play and might be 
slightly better depending on 

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your context, who you're running
with, stuff like that. 

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00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:13,720
But yeah, like so having these 
completely distinct kind of 

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00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,120
flavours for different Pve 
styles, so playing something 

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that feels quite different 
between rate, single target and 

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mythic plus AOE is just kind of 
drawing for some people. 

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I don't particularly mind it 
because I've, I do like the idea

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of being able to specialize in 
some kind of like damage pattern

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or something like that, right? 
But generally what happens if 

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you have to specialize is that 
you obviously lose in all of the

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areas where you don't 
specialize. 

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So what we had a lot of the time
is like Stormwinger does more 

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AOE, but we just lose out on 
single target. 

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So we just lag behind on that, 
which kind of held us back right

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now we're probably so overturned
that it doesn't really matter as

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much. 
But that's a different kind of 

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question, right? 
Oh yeah. 

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So like having it as like an 
aesthetic choice and having like

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the animations and summoning 
like The Tempest for the storm 

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Winger and have like all the 
lightning happening and 

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everything. 
It's pretty cool. 

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It it feels good. 
Farcia. 

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I'm personally enjoy all of it. 
I know that half the community 

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hates it. 
Just having more pets and like 

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summon your grandpas and have 
them actually do the job, right?

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Like if you're playing the game 
and 30% of your damage is just 

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from the pets, it's just from 
the people that are standing 

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behind you and you're not really
expecting to play a pet class. 

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I see how people would kind of 
dislike that, but I, I do very 

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much enjoy it. 
I mean, I've always liked 

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Primordial Wave, which is like 
the main thing that you need to 

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use for Farseer builds, right? 
Because it procs the Eurotelons.

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But yeah, so end of the day, I'm
not entirely sure if I think the

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system benefits us in the sense 
of like it makes the gameplay 

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better or anything like that. 
But it I think the idea is 

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generally successful. 
So I'm I'm quite happy that they

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take it over into midnight, I 
think. 

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OK. 
And so as you've gone into 

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Midnight and we've gone through 
the streamlining, we've seen a 

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reduction of a lot of the buffs 
that we used to have to keep an 

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eye on the plates that we used 
to spin. 

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Does Elemental still do what 
Elemental does? 

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Does it still feel like 
elemental? 

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And how is the gameplay being 
affected? 

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Well, it entirely depends again 
on who you're asking, right? 

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Like all of the like the try 
hards, the people that spend a 

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lot of time playing the spec, 
some of them may be playing it a

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bit too much. 
Just say like all of the 

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interesting stuff is gone, 
right? 

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The skeleton is definitely still
there, right? 

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00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:03,680
Like it's a bit of a spender 
spec. 

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00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:05,960
You generate your mouth some 
precious spenders. 

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All of the things that kind of 
do, all the pretty colours, all 

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the animations, all that is 
still there. 

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It's probably more now than it 
was previously because they just

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kind of focused in on like 
overload. 

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So everything just happens more 
now is at least what it kind of 

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looks like and feels like. 
But all of the fun stuff, right?

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00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,640
Like Ice Fury broke up the 
rotation. 

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Ice Fury has always been a very,
very highly debated spell. 

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Like the word clunky has at 
times been very, very well. 

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We disincentivize people to use 
it. 

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Let me put it this way, right? 
Because everything just gets 

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kind of called clunky and the 
word just loses all meaning. 

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00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,400
But yeah, like, people always 
called it clunky because playing

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around it was just kind of 
annoying. 

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00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:55,680
You had to as well as you said, 
right? 

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00:09:55,680 --> 00:09:58,400
Like spinning plates, just one 
more that you just kind of have 

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00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,840
to manage. 
But after they rework that, I'd 

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00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:07,640
like, I don't know how many of 
your listeners and viewers know 

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00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,560
the history there, right? 
Like I sure he initially was if 

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00:10:11,560 --> 00:10:14,480
I remember correctly 32nd 
cooldown and gave you like 4 

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00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,800
charges of first Chuck. 
Then that got rebalanced a few 

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00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,120
times. 
Was it even a minute and four 

170
00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:21,800
charges? 
I don't even remember, it's been

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00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,680
about a while and it anyway. 
It's been a long time since like

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00:10:25,680 --> 00:10:31,840
I think BFA days when we were 
doing the, the, the balance of 

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the elements and so you would 
want to go through and it's gone

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00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,720
through a lot of changes though.
It's even older, right? 

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00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,360
Like in Legion there was like 
the ice quake build and stuff 

176
00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,200
like that. 
Ice shoe already existed back in

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00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,840
Legion, right? 
So it's been like 10 years at 

178
00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:50,640
this point. 
So anyway, point being, they 

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00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,080
changed it to a random clock 
now, right? 

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00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:58,440
So just by doing things you just
sometimes get it and every ice 

181
00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:00,800
shoe is like one for shock that 
you can use afterwards. 

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00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:06,240
And that was kind of cool. 
You could save up like 2 

183
00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,720
charges. 
The way it procs is more or less

184
00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,600
normalized, so you don't really 
get like 3 procs in a row or 

185
00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,320
something like that. 
So you can just bank it. 

186
00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:16,120
You have it for like movement 
stuff. 

187
00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,800
You can just actually move 
places, which is very nice to do

188
00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:25,320
as a caster. 
People still call it clunky. 

189
00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,360
I don't know if that is related 
to like we have a talent called 

190
00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:32,640
Fusion of Elements, which the 
base UI just never tracked. 

191
00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,240
It was tracked and like a beta 
at some point, but then they 

192
00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:37,640
just removed that for some 
reason. 

193
00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,640
So we had to like work around it
with we go us to even just 

194
00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,040
understand what is actually 
happening in the game because 

195
00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:49,680
Blizzard didn't want to tell us.
But so that was kind of weird. 

196
00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:51,640
That was kind of janky to play 
around that. 

197
00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:56,320
But other than that, it was a 
pretty nice spell. 

198
00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,120
Now at the end of all, at the 
end of it all after the we 

199
00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,960
factors and reworks. 
So losing that is kind of bad. 

200
00:12:06,680 --> 00:12:10,240
Similarly, like a lot of the 
flavour stuff Liquid Magma told 

201
00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:15,680
him which back in legion or 
something you just popped it 

202
00:12:15,680 --> 00:12:18,440
down at the damage. 
Great, loved it. 

203
00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,080
Then it started applying like 
flame shocks, which that was 

204
00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,320
kind of neat when we had like 
primordial wave to actually 

205
00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,200
benefit from the flame shocks 
right? 

206
00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:27,800
And now they just removed it 
again and replaced it with like 

207
00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,400
a new talent, which is 
technically better. 

208
00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:34,880
It can just apply all of the 
flame shocks now, but it was 

209
00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,240
like the last totem that we had 
remaining. 

210
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:41,200
And people like totems I think 
just for Charmin generally. 

211
00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,000
So bit of a loss in flavour I 
guess. 

212
00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:46,280
Yeah. 
And some other stuff, right? 

213
00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,160
Like we have lost a lot of 
procs, a lot of like random 

214
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:53,200
stuff, a lot of things that were
kind of you had to track or you 

215
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,880
just didn't. 
Usually you will find just not 

216
00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,520
tracking it at all. 
People obviously want to track 

217
00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:00,040
it. 
If things are happening, they 

218
00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:01,880
want to see it, right? 
Oh, yeah. 

219
00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,080
So like they removed a lot of 
those things, which I think is 

220
00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,800
fair, right? 
It's it's a very weird 

221
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,000
situation. 
They added a lot of things and 

222
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,160
removed the little things that 
we kind of asked for. 

223
00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,640
But now it's just the shell 
that's left over. 

224
00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:19,040
So it just feels like, OK, and 
and now please add the fun into 

225
00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:22,960
the spec, right? 
It still feels like elemental 

226
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,960
sound, but there's just the 
little bit missing. 

227
00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,840
I don't know if that's just me 
talking or someone who likes to 

228
00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,360
slightly min makes or slightly 
like try to optimize gameplay a 

229
00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,880
little bit, right? 
Because it's also a situation 

230
00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:39,520
right now where like if you go 
onto the Internet, you go onto 

231
00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:43,040
YouTube and you see like what 
creators are talking about with 

232
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,040
regards to like midnight and 
everyone loves elemental shaman 

233
00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:47,840
and one says you should play 
that. 

234
00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,160
But that in my opinion, right, 
It's mostly just people that 

235
00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,320
played it for like a few hours 
and tried it in a few dungeons 

236
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,800
and stuff like that. 
And it's really cool. 

237
00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:03,680
It it feels good, it looks nice,
but there's just not much there 

238
00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:05,800
if you actually want to go into 
it, right? 

239
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:07,720
Like when I was writing the 
guides and I'm sitting there 

240
00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,880
like, OK, and how can I tell 
people how to optimize this? 

241
00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,680
And I'm just saying like there, 
there is nothing I, I don't 

242
00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:18,080
know, like there's mass of the 
elements and like the which you 

243
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:24,200
have to kind of play around and 
that's it really so. 

244
00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:30,560
So it feels like while the cool 
factor remains, a bit of the 

245
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:34,840
soul has been hollowed out. 
Like the skeleton is still 

246
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,120
standing there but the soul is 
just missing, right? 

247
00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:43,120
OK, OK. 
You did talk about the loss of 

248
00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:47,160
Liquid Mogmototum, the addition 
now that we, we no longer have 

249
00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:51,840
Liquid Mogmotum, we're boring 
from enhancement. 

250
00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:59,120
The ability to like now 
immediately apply a flame shock 

251
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,400
onto 1 target and five others in
there that hit like hits the 

252
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:10,000
cap. 
How has that really changed for 

253
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:16,640
the AOE of, of elemental? 
Because elemental AOE was a lot 

254
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,440
of that project juggling. 
You wanted to make sure that you

255
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,880
were like sending and sending 
your elemental blast so you 

256
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,080
could, you could empower and so 
forth. 

257
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:30,960
You wanted to make sure that you
were doing the the right amount 

258
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,560
of juggling. 
And now it feels like you're 

259
00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:39,480
looking for a Aftershock proc to
like send more spenders and go 

260
00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,360
from there. 
Yeah, I mean, you're right. 

261
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,960
I even forgot to mention that I 
like Echoes of Grades Unknowing,

262
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,840
which is like the talent where 
you just alternate your 

263
00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:49,640
spenders. 
That is also gone now. 

264
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,440
So you're just spamming your AOE
spender when AOE is happening, 

265
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,440
which it's it's earthquake is a 
great spell. 

266
00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,320
Might need a little animation 
update at some point if we look 

267
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:04,600
at the new like augmentation 
earthquake animations and stuff 

268
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,840
like that, but that's a 
different conversation. 

269
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:12,280
But yeah, so like stuff like 
that has gone. 

270
00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,120
The whole Ice Fury fusion thing 
is gone. 

271
00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:18,520
Some talents that you could 
sometimes play around like 

272
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:22,960
Search of Power where like your 
spenders would then upgrade your

273
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,840
next generator, stuff like that 
is gone. 

274
00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,760
So all of the flame shock 
juggling that we did previously,

275
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,680
right? 
Like we kind of understand how 

276
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,840
exactly liquid magma totem 
applies it's dots. 

277
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:38,520
So depending on target counts, 
how many targets have flame 

278
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:42,120
shock, how many don't you just 
have to use your spells in a 

279
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:45,760
different order to just kind of 
abuse the logic there. 

280
00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:51,040
And whether that was fun for 
people to do or not is very, 

281
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,680
very it's it's debatable. 
I agree, right. 

282
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:59,400
Like I personally enjoyed myself
figuring out how exactly that 

283
00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,400
works and trying to maximize 
like the active flame shocks 

284
00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:06,200
with those builds. 
But to each their own on that 

285
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:07,880
one, right? 
And now it's definitely. 

286
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:11,200
Fun to read on my end, it was 
not something I was looking to 

287
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:15,480
put into practice. 
Yeah, and now the new voltaic 

288
00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:17,880
place. 
So I'd like, as you said, you 

289
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,640
shock a target and everything 
else also gets flame shocks up 

290
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:22,200
to the maximum, which is 6, 
right? 

291
00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,960
The problem is just it entirely 
replaces your flame shock. 

292
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:30,320
So you can't do it. 
Like if if you have to wait for 

293
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,280
everything to be grouped up, 
then you can actually press the 

294
00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,480
button. 
So that's the one, that's one 

295
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,360
thing. 
And then you also are kind of 

296
00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:39,680
reliant on everything standing 
together because you only have 

297
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,040
one spell that's a splash that 
just applies the dot now. 

298
00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:45,880
So if they are not grouped, like
what are you supposed to do? 

299
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:47,480
You can't really put it 
somewhere else. 

300
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,680
There's no other way to apply 
flame Shock at all. 

301
00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:53,120
There are no procs anymore where
they just apply it. 

302
00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:57,600
I guess pressing Ascendance 
itself kind of still does apply.

303
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,800
It spread sometimes, but that's 
like a two or three minutes cool

304
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,480
down, right? 
So kind of debatable how 

305
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:08,560
relevant that is in most cases. 
But yeah, like previously you 

306
00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,800
had Primordial Wave, which was 
like 30 second cool down. 

307
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:14,840
So every 30 seconds you kind of 
had like your little set up 

308
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,560
thingy where you try to do all 
the flame shock juggling. 

309
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,520
You did the primordial wave and 
then you just kept playing the 

310
00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:29,480
game kind of, and now was like 
15 second cool down -6 seconds 

311
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:33,800
from one talent and then -1 1/2 
again, something like that. 

312
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,760
I think it's like 8 second 
cooling or something on the low 

313
00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:40,480
end. 
So pressing that button and then

314
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,160
the lava burst afterwards, it's 
like a good bit of irritation 

315
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:48,000
now, which is not terribly 
another terribly bad thing 

316
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,600
because it's one of the few 
instant casts you have, right? 

317
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,000
So you can actually move when 
you press will take place. 

318
00:18:55,440 --> 00:19:00,280
But yeah, so like, I think it 
doesn't feel particularly nice 

319
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,320
to play. 
I mean, sure, if everything's 

320
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,200
scooped up, if everything goes 
well, it's kind of neat. 

321
00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:09,560
But yeah, I don't know, I 
definitely preferred the 

322
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,000
previous iteration. 
Probably just what I'm used to, 

323
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,280
to be fair, right? 
Like it might just be a thing 

324
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,040
that will and like if we talk 
again like 2 years, I will just 

325
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,960
sit there like MO wasn't so bad,
was just a little bit of growing

326
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,080
pains, right? 
Understandable. 

327
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,640
I mean it is going to be a 
different beast in AOE. 

328
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:35,360
The single target though, when 
we are walking up to that boss 

329
00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:38,840
and we are now dealing with like
a raid boss or just the boss 

330
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:42,000
that we're dealing with in a 
mythic Plus, how is that 

331
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:43,200
affected? 
It doesn't. 

332
00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,600
It's not being completely 
reworked like AOE, but like are 

333
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,680
we still able to do what we 
wanted to do? 

334
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,840
Well, single target or rate 
generally is kind of the the 

335
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:55,640
pain point in my opinion, right 
like from all the testing I've 

336
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,600
done and from all the tests 
testing I've watched, we're just

337
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:03,160
losing a lot of mobility, right?
The assumption right now is that

338
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:07,320
you will play voltaic place, but
just apply it like every 15 

339
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,360
seconds ish right. 
So play it without the cooldown 

340
00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:11,560
reduction talents and all of 
that. 

341
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,720
So that's a movement spell. 
And then I guess you have your 

342
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:20,640
earth shock, which like every. 
Let's say every 8 seconds or 

343
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,520
something, right? 
You can press like a spender and

344
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,880
you can move a little bit that 
way and that's kind of it. 

345
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,640
So I mean Stormkeeper gives you 
some instant cars, Lava search 

346
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,560
gives you some instant cars. 
So I'd like there is definitely 

347
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,800
it's definitely possible to like
start a step places sometimes, 

348
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,960
but if you just have to go far, 
you have spirit walkers, 

349
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:46,200
obviously, but that is still not
always available, right? 

350
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,720
And if I look at at least how 
the bosses were designed in war 

351
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,280
within, a lot of them required a
good bit of movement. 

352
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:58,040
So we're going to see how that 
goes in the pre patch, I guess. 

353
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,520
And even in midnight, right, 
like all the right bosses that 

354
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:06,280
we tested, I think they still 
require a good a good amount of 

355
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,520
mobility. 
I felt like it was a bit of an 

356
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,520
issue and most people that I 
talked with considered a bit of 

357
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:16,600
an issue and didn't really have 
a lot of fun, at least on the 

358
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:18,280
single target process and stuff 
like that. 

359
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,520
So just kind of a question, 
right? 

360
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:25,640
Like we are obviously not the 
only class, not the only spec 

361
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,760
that kind of has like this 
charity ranged approach. 

362
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:29,600
If you look at something like 
destruction Warlock or 

363
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,520
something, or Warlock in 
general, I guess they're also 

364
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,160
just sit there and casting. 
I think that they have some 

365
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,480
better tools. 
I think that circle is generally

366
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,800
a bit better than most of the 
stuff that we have access to. 

367
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:47,760
But at the end of the day, in my
opinion at least, they often get

368
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,720
balanced around the fact that 
they have to move as much, 

369
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:52,200
right? 
Like even if they lose a lot of 

370
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:57,520
cars, they still do good damage.
And yeah, I mean, there has 

371
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:01,600
basically been no balancing at 
all on the PTR and on the beta, 

372
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,320
right? 
There was basically no damage 

373
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,640
shuffling for the specs, no aura
adjustments, nothing. 

374
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:12,080
Which will be a bit interesting 
when we patch in our launches, 

375
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:16,040
but we will see about that one. 
So it's really hard to say 

376
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,640
whether Blizzard, I mean 
Blizzard is keeping that in 

377
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,560
mind, right? 
Like they are aware of that, but

378
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,760
like how aggressively they want 
to compensate for that. 

379
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,920
We will see. 
I mean, it's the same thing. 

380
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,040
I like they have communicated 
that there is a shift in like 

381
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,320
how they design weight losses, 
how they design Mythic plus 

382
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:38,400
around the loss in utility. 
And if you look at something 

383
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:43,760
like destruction, I don't know 
that much about it, but to my 

384
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,920
understanding at least they lose
like some of their shadow burns,

385
00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:48,680
all of their shadow burns, stuff
like that. 

386
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:50,520
They do lose some of the instant
cast. 

387
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:55,880
So they also lose like mobility.
So we are definitely not the 

388
00:22:55,880 --> 00:23:00,400
only ones with that issue. 
But I mean, if you compare that 

389
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,040
to like a mage who still can 
just blink everywhere all the 

390
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:09,320
time back and just do like 
ridiculous stuff, yeah, it's 

391
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,200
it's concerning. 
I am concerned. 

392
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:19,400
OK, So you're looking at this 
not like where we went from like

393
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,520
Mr. Pandaria, where we could 
just cast like most of our 

394
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,320
rotation on the move to 
Warlords. 

395
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,120
It's not it's it's not that kind
of pain. 

396
00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:30,640
You do feel like that they 
haven't properly compensated for

397
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,640
it? 
Yeah, I mean, we're not going 

398
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:38,440
from like BM level mobilities to
still kind of good mobility, 

399
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,120
right. 
We're going to yeah, pretty all 

400
00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:43,080
right. 
I mean, to be fair, we are 

401
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,080
reasonably mobile with like Ice 
Sphere and all the things right 

402
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:50,680
now. 
And but like where we're going 

403
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:55,800
to, I don't think there is a lot
in terms of mobility. 

404
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,560
I think that it will be an 
issue, I think, especially 

405
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:04,360
because I mean it might not be 
actually true, but I think that 

406
00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:08,160
Blizzard is trying to design the
games a bit more like player 

407
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,880
friendly, a bit more like 
beginner friendly, right. 

408
00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:16,840
So making the skill requirement 
so much higher in terms of just 

409
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,720
silent movement, min maxing 
mobility, right? 

410
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,640
Like every single time someone 
comes to me or to the discord or

411
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,240
something and asks hey, how can 
I improve? 

412
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,480
Hey, what am I doing wrong? 
My damage isn't there. 

413
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,080
I don't know what what's 
happening. 

414
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,680
I'm following the guide and you 
can just see maybe they aren't 

415
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,280
following it one to one. 
Maybe there's some minor 

416
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,760
mistakes, but usually the issue 
is that they are just not 

417
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:41,400
casting. 
They're just moving places. 

418
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,280
They just go into Ghost Wharf 
and just walk around for like 10

419
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,000
or 15 seconds, which like at 
that point you can't really do 

420
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,720
damage, right? 
That's kind of how that works. 

421
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,480
But yeah, so if they're making 
movement harder on the player, I

422
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:59,120
think that's very quickly. 
A lot of the like beginner 

423
00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:02,440
player base, a lot of the like 
lower end player base will run 

424
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,840
into issues. 
Obviously like DPS doesn't 

425
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:11,000
really matter that much and like
normal or heroic rates, right, 

426
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,600
because you will probably never 
see a an NRH or something. 

427
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,120
But I do think that it will just
feel bad, right? 

428
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:20,520
Like if you are so immobile that
you can't really perform well 

429
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,880
and all of the other specs, 
maybe not all the other specs 

430
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:28,440
are like BM's, majors, whoever 
else just have a much easier 

431
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,840
time compensating or much easier
time just being able to move, 

432
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:33,800
then you will just lose a lot of
players. 

433
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,040
I think they will just we will. 
I think they will just go 

434
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,920
somewhere else. 
OK, yeah, that's definitely 

435
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,600
true. 
If it's not even across the the 

436
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,280
field, it it just feels like 
you're going to see a lot of 

437
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:53,200
people move, move away. 
Throughout the war within shaman

438
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:58,240
has been in relatively good, if 
not grotesquely overpowered 

439
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,040
situations, especially when I 
forget what the talent was that 

440
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,760
like reduced all nature spells 
and so we could single handedly 

441
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:10,600
interrupt and they got rid of 
flash. 

442
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,040
Thank you. 
And they've got they got rid of 

443
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:14,960
that. 
So like again, we we needed it. 

444
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,320
We needed a team. 
But in terms of this this 

445
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,800
movement issue, do you think it 
is an all or nothing? 

446
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,320
Do you think it might be 
something where we're hoping 

447
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:30,400
that these procs start stacking 
up so that when we get to start 

448
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,280
standing and delivering again, 
we get a little bit more damage?

449
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,400
Because there are there are 
classes where they have burst 

450
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:40,960
windows. 
And so as long as that burst 

451
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,080
window isn't interrupted, you're
still going to keep up and 

452
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,400
damage. 
There are classes that can just 

453
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,440
consistently deal damage. 
Where's elemental standing right

454
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,360
now? 
Is it closer to 1 or the other? 

455
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,400
Yeah, you're thinking about like
the old school fire mage, right?

456
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,360
Or like they do damage for like 
15 seconds and then they just 

457
00:26:58,360 --> 00:27:01,440
run around for like 2 minutes 
when nothing matters because 

458
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,160
it's basically like 10% of their
overall DPS outside of cool 

459
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,680
lands, right? 
But yeah, with Midnight, we also

460
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,320
got quite significant nerves to 
Ascendance, right? 

461
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:18,280
So Ascendance has previously 
buffed all overloads by 150% 

462
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:23,760
that has been slashed 275, which
is probably reasonable, right? 

463
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,840
Like with the new Ibex Apex 
talents, we get generally more 

464
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,520
overloads and all of that. 
And they also compensated 

465
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,360
generally, right? 
Like the the top end. 

466
00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:40,600
So with the 75%, the overload 
still deal as much damage now as

467
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,040
they did with the 150 before 
because they just buffed the 

468
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:49,400
baseline, right? 
So they did compensate in that 

469
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,880
sense, but that just means they 
took damage outs out of the 

470
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:59,640
cooldown window, right? 
How exactly that's going to work

471
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,080
is speed up in the air, because 
we haven't finished implementing

472
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:08,840
The Sims and all of that, right?
So it's reasonable to say right 

473
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,520
now that we might, for example, 
be playing the two-minute 

474
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,720
Descendants because they changed
our elementals, right? 

475
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,200
Previously, we could change, we 
could choose one of the 

476
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,440
elementals. 
It was like a 2.5 minute 

477
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:21,960
cooldown. 
We just put them down. 

478
00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:26,080
He did his thing. 
Storm Elemental gave us some 

479
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,840
haste these days. 
Earlier was like a cast time 

480
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:35,160
reduction, which got a little 
crazy at times, but that's also 

481
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,840
for a different time of place. 
I, I I. 

482
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:41,560
Know you want to say it's a 
different time of place, but I 

483
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:46,360
feel like it's worth mentioning 
that the, the change to a haste 

484
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:53,320
buff instead of the further and 
further stacking cast time 

485
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,320
reduction just feels like such a
loss of skill expression because

486
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,560
you would, you would line up 
your, your cooldowns. 

487
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,720
You would, without going into 
the bug about about that, but 

488
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,920
you would line up your 
cooldowns, you'd get 3 instant 

489
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,800
casts right when you right when 
you sent that and that would get

490
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,840
you going immediately. 
And then they cut it down so you

491
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,520
could only stack it up to to a 
certain point because there was 

492
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,800
too many button presses in a 
short window and now it's a 

493
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:24,040
haste buff. 
So like that feels like a loss 

494
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,680
of skill. 
Expression, yeah, like as a 

495
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,160
short explanation, right? 
Like you. 

496
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,400
Normally the way World of 
Warcraft works is that you can 

497
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,920
stake haste up to like 100% and 
half the cool your GCD right 

498
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,920
from 1.5 forecast is down to 
.75. 

499
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:42,400
And on top of that you could 
then stake cast time reduction. 

500
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,520
So if memory serves we had 40% 
cast time reduction, right? 

501
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,480
So we could cast the lightning 
bolt every .4 seconds I think. 

502
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,440
And we had that up basically 
100% of rate fights. 

503
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:01,800
So you just had to like do 2.5 
button presses per second, which

504
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,960
is, is a form of skill 
expression, I guess, but might 

505
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:12,560
not be the most, yeah, the the 
most sensible thing, the most 

506
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,320
healthy thing. 
Yeah, but I'm not particularly 

507
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:15,760
against it. 
Right. 

508
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,400
Like it's also one of the things
where you just ignore everything

509
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:19,720
else. 
You're not even pressing your 

510
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,240
spenders at some point because 
you're just spamming your 

511
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,480
generator because it's so fast. 
So just do that. 

512
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,880
But yeah, so they slash that in 
half at 1st and then at some 

513
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:31,760
point they rework that to haste,
right. 

514
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,640
So it just kind of covers 
everything or covered everything

515
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,360
now. 
But yeah, so they just said, OK,

516
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,160
we're just going to remove the 
elementals as their own button, 

517
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,240
which fair enough, right? 
Like we have 3 minute 

518
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,120
descendants or two-minute 
descendants and then the 2.5 

519
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,880
minute cool down on top of that.
So we're just going to delay 

520
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:55,920
that to 3 minutes all the time, 
Probably some, but then also 

521
00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:00,120
faster reduces that further. 
So it's less than 2.5 and then 

522
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,120
nothing lines up and you're just
confused, like doesn't really 

523
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,360
know what it wants to be. 
And it also wasn't particularly 

524
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,520
impactful anymore after all of 
the nerves. 

525
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:14,240
So how they did it now is that 
they just bound the fire 

526
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,200
elemental to ascendance. 
So if you press ascendance, you 

527
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,600
get the fire elemental. 
And when you press Stormkeeper, 

528
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,880
you don't get the lightning 
elemental anymore, you get the 

529
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,040
storm elemental now. 
And they just removed the haste 

530
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:30,320
from that storm elemental 
because with how often we're 

531
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:34,120
able to cast storm Keeper now, 
it's probably better to just 

532
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,480
have the pet and not have haste 
on top of that. 

533
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,640
Yeah, like some of that doesn't 
really work the way you want it 

534
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,720
to, right? 
Like fire mental extends your 

535
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:50,000
dots every newly applied flame 
shock and ascendance also 

536
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,600
applies flame shocks, but it 
applies to flame shocks first 

537
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,440
and then spawns the pets right 
now. 

538
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,960
So you just don't get the 
extended duration and stuff like

539
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,040
that, which is just just feels 
weird. 

540
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,960
Just kind of, I don't know if 
that's an oversight or just like

541
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,480
a mistake. 
I couldn't tell you. 

542
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,920
Yeah. 
So kind of getting away from all

543
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,680
of that, those things, right? 
Like where, for example, storm 

544
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,520
elemental so strongly just only 
pressing lightning board or like

545
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:17,760
fire mental being completely 
useless. 

546
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,280
Basically like the the thing 
that's 3% of the overall damage 

547
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:25,480
or something, maybe 5. 
So now they actually buffed that

548
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:29,240
quite substantially, whether 
it's worth to play like all of 

549
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:34,000
the pet talents, Probably not 
really, but at least it feels 

550
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,560
like it does something now. 
And also it's just kind of 

551
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,400
automatically lines up now 
because if you press the button,

552
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,440
both things happen, Descendants 
and the Filamento. 

553
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,080
So you're not just trying to 
work around that and 

554
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,640
everything's just kind of weird.
And I mean, it's one of the 

555
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,160
stated design goals. 
So like every time you have to 

556
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,240
press 2 buttons always at the 
same time, why just not turn 

557
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,640
that into one button, right? 
Like why not make the macro that

558
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,280
you're going to use anyway just 
into a thing that the game just 

559
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:10,040
gives you most? 
Definitely there was also in 

560
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,640
single target. 
Do you want an elemental blast? 

561
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,800
Do you want to do you want to 
send the shock? 

562
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,000
Now obviously air shock will 
help more in a in a movement 

563
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,440
heavy fight, but the bounce 
between those has always been 

564
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,760
like a a strange thing in 
midnight. 

565
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,640
Is it are they still competitive
with each other? 

566
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,360
Is there a use case for both or 
currently? 

567
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,040
I guess this is something that 
would roll out in The Sims, but 

568
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,080
ideally where would you want it 
to be? 

569
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,680
I mean, honestly, even if 
Elemental Blast would be better 

570
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,240
in single target, you're not 
going to play that like you. 

571
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,480
You need to go places, you need 
to move. 

572
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,920
So just having an instant cast 
as a spender is definitely the 

573
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,000
better choice over just sitting 
there and casting another cast 

574
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,520
like an elemental blast for two 
seconds. 

575
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,720
Right? 
Because what would that leave 

576
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,200
lead you? 
You could use your storm keeper,

577
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,800
whatever the coolerness with all
the Cdr toes these days, kind of

578
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,560
hard to figure out. 
Let's say every 30 seconds or 

579
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:13,280
something for like 2-3 instant 
cars depending on if you have 

580
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:18,000
like Tia or something. 
And then you also have a lava 

581
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:23,360
search which blocks every 2015 
to 20 seconds, right? 

582
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,440
So if you have like 3 instant 
cars every 30 seconds or 

583
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,400
something, that might be not 
enough. 

584
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,239
I think so, yeah. 
You will definitely play your 

585
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:38,600
shock there for AOE for Mythic. 
Plus it's a bit up in the air 

586
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,639
because Elemental Blast is 
really strong. 

587
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:48,520
And the big problem with 
Elemental Blast for rate is also

588
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:53,719
that Farseer, the expiring 
Farseers also caused Elemental 

589
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,639
Blast, right? 
So you get the stats anyway. 

590
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,720
So I'm getting even more stats. 
At some point you're just going 

591
00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:00,600
to cap out. 
You just have all of them. 

592
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:07,120
And similarly, because overloads
also count and with the Apex 

593
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,280
sounds, we're going to get 
overloads on all overloads. 

594
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,360
You will probably have enough of
those just by default. 

595
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:19,720
But yeah, so we will see in 
Mythic Plus when you're playing 

596
00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:22,560
like Stormbringer or something 
like that, whether it's worth to

597
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:28,760
just get the extra stats. 
But to be fair, like they've 

598
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,880
changed fusion, the spell I 
mentioned earlier where Ice Fury

599
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,440
kind of had these things that 
just would prock an elemental 

600
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,440
blast at some point, now that 
ICU doesn't exist, can't really 

601
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,640
do that anymore. 
So there's also another talent 

602
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,040
called Power of the Malstrom, 
which like every time you cast 

603
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,960
lava burst, you have a chance 
for the next lightning bolt or 

604
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:49,760
chain lightning to overload an 
additional time. 

605
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,000
And that also triggers fusion 
now. 

606
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,800
And because we are actually lava
bursting in AOE again, we just 

607
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:01,000
get it that way. 
We get Elemental Blast in AOE, 

608
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,280
so we do still have some of 
them. 

609
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,440
Whether that's going to be too 
many already to also pick 

610
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:14,560
Elemental Blast as like a cast 
is yet to be seen. 

611
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,000
Like, yeah, not. 
Really true. 

612
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,680
The value of the choice is being
diminished by the fact that 

613
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:25,000
you're getting it anyways from 
all these other sources. 

614
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:30,280
Yeah. 
Speaking about value, we sort of

615
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,480
mentioned it, but we should say 
it out loud for listeners. 

616
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:37,880
Tell us about the Apex talent 
and the the love of overloads. 

617
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:44,720
All right, so yeah, let me 
actually get that, pull that up 

618
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:49,000
so I can actually have correct 
numbers on that one. 

619
00:36:49,240 --> 00:36:50,640
The name is feedback loop, 
right? 

620
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,680
I, I don't know if everyone's 
aware of how the apex sounds 

621
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,840
work right? 
Blizzard just changed it. 

622
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,880
Like there's an extra node at 
the bottom of the tree now with 

623
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:02,280
like a zero out of four. 
It's like an extra circle. 

624
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,600
And the whole idea is that you 
can put four points into it. 

625
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:11,320
The first point, the 2nd and the
3rd together, and the third is 

626
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:16,840
like 3 different talents. 
I I think this is a very poor 

627
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,320
way to phrase it. 
But like the first point you put

628
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:23,200
into feedback loop gives you 
extra elemental overload damage,

629
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,840
the second point gives you extra
quick chance and quick damage, 

630
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,720
and the last point gives you I 
think it's a 50% chance for all 

631
00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:33,080
of your overloads to then 
trigger more overloads. 

632
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:39,040
I haven't actually have had the 
time to completely test that how

633
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,560
that actually works. 
Because right now right? 

634
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:45,080
Like a normal spell, a normal 
lightning bolt can overload, 

635
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,000
then Descendants gives it an 
extra overload so it overloads 

636
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,320
twice, then Power of the 
Maelstrom can make it overload 

637
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,480
an additional time so that's 
three times, and then 

638
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,200
Supercharge can make it overload
1/4 time. 

639
00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:00,800
If every one of these roles now 
has a 50% to also overload, so 

640
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,320
you could have 8 overloads on 
one singular spell cast, that 

641
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,600
would be a lot. 
And I've never seen that in any 

642
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,200
of the logs I looked at or any 
of the testing that I've done. 

643
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,680
So I don't think that is 
actually works that way. 

644
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,320
The assumption right now would 
just be that it does like a 50% 

645
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,240
role on every one of them up 
until it like succeeds, right? 

646
00:38:21,240 --> 00:38:23,720
And so it's like kept at one 
additional overload. 

647
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,000
That would be the assumption. 
That's usually how it sounds 

648
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,880
like these work, but I honestly 
don't even know because it's not

649
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,920
on the pre patch. 
So I still have time until the 

650
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,720
actual expansion launches to 
figure out exactly how that 

651
00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:39,840
works. 
But anyway, no, it's it's part 

652
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,320
of what I said, right? 
Like, well, we just put even 

653
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,800
more emphasis on overloads. 
We have a chance to get more 

654
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,160
overloads from the town and also
the overloads are doing more 

655
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:52,000
damage. 
So that just kind of makes it 

656
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,600
feel or it makes it look better 
because overloads of the 

657
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:57,440
animation. 
So I like, it's just kind of the

658
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:02,920
thing that elemental does, just 
have more of everything pretty. 

659
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:07,480
Much that turrent set up. 
I mean it's the same thing for 

660
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,960
like the quid right? 
Normally in World of Warcraft a 

661
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,680
quid does double damage. 
Do you have an the idea how much

662
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:16,760
damage to quit from elemento 
shaman does now? 

663
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:22,600
I thought it was 250%, but now 
that you've got that scaling on 

664
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:28,600
top of it, I, I, I don't know. 
Yeah, Yeah, it goes up to 300% 

665
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:32,000
now, right? 
Like just from or 325, even just

666
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,440
from your normal talents, you 
get like an extra 50% and then 

667
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,160
an additional 25% on top of 
that. 

668
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,840
It's like for elemental shaman 
and normal quit value would be 

669
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:48,880
like 200 a math 100 to 75%. 
And now you then get like 50% or

670
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:55,040
2 * 25% on top of that. 
So yeah, like you get two 325% 

671
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,120
quit damage on all of your 
spells and then you have 

672
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,600
something. 
They change Lava Burst now, 

673
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,120
because Lava Burst always quits,
right? 

674
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,080
So usually we had like a problem
where quit was very bad because 

675
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:11,400
it always quit anyway, so just 
get other stats. 

676
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,640
But now that spell also scales 
with quit chance. 

677
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:22,920
So lava Burst might just be 
doing like 380 four 100% quit 

678
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,440
damage or something. 
Now, which that is a lot, I'm 

679
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:31,240
not entirely sure. 
But yeah, I mean, high numbers 

680
00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:33,080
are fun. 
And I don't think it's actually 

681
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,080
going to be much of A like 
gambling issue, like on G issue 

682
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,400
where you just sit there like, 
oh, I didn't quit on my spell. 

683
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:39,880
So now I don't do any damage, 
right? 

684
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:44,560
Like we have so many instances, 
so many cars, so many things 

685
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:48,600
happening that just kind of 
normalizes pretty easily, right?

686
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,760
And we don't really rely on 
quits for anything mechanical, 

687
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,680
right? 
Like we're not saying like I 

688
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,680
need a quit for my thing to proc
because otherwise I can't press 

689
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:00,880
my button because things like 
that just kind of lead to issue,

690
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:02,920
lead to very big swinginess at 
times. 

691
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,680
So I like fire mage had that 
problem historically where like 

692
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:08,680
if you didn't have enough quid 
to actually get like your 

693
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:13,400
pyroblasts up and your hot 
streaks and everything, you just

694
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:17,880
couldn't really do much, which 
not really the case anymore. 

695
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:19,840
They kind of worked around there
now. 

696
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,640
But yeah, so like a lot of the 
numbers things or something look

697
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:30,040
very crazy now because of all of
the additional multipliers on 

698
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:36,000
top of each other. 
But yeah, so Apex talents, I 

699
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,480
think they designed it with the 
goal in mind to have those 

700
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,960
always be picked. 
And I think they succeeded, at 

701
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:45,520
least for Elemental, which would
be kind of a shame, right? 

702
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:49,200
Like you could just write purely
mechanically. 

703
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,800
You could just ignore it and 
just put more spell more points 

704
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,560
into the bottom of the tree 
normally, but if you have like 

705
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,240
this new shiny thing and just 
completely ignore it, that would

706
00:41:59,240 --> 00:42:03,600
be kind of a waste. 
Yeah, I, I, I'd like that. 

707
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:08,840
It's definitely something that 
people would love to to play 

708
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,640
around with. 
And so far shamans have been 

709
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,440
winning with that two out of 
three. 

710
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:20,760
We'll see what happens when we 
get over to Resto, but is there 

711
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:24,360
build where you could see 
working without it? 

712
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:29,920
It just seems so good that like 
it would almost feel foolhardy 

713
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,520
not to use it. 
I mean the problem isn't even 

714
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,520
how good it is, the problem is 
just how bad everything else is.

715
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:42,840
We are sitting in the situation 
right now where I'm thinking or 

716
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,480
whether currently recommended 
build by us without Sims. 

717
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:47,600
Right? 
So we don't have the hard 

718
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,360
numbers on it, but the currently
recommended build is taking 

719
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:55,200
voltaic place and purging flames
in single target. 

720
00:42:56,080 --> 00:43:00,440
Voltaic place is basically just 
a glorified flame shock right? 

721
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,680
Like it also does some damage, 
but because it doesn't really 

722
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:08,840
scale with everything because 
it's bucked, I guess it deals 

723
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:14,800
less than you would expect. 
And at the end of the day, it's 

724
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,400
not really that much damage. 
And then you'd take like purging

725
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:22,560
flames, which is this, this new 
cleave talent, right? 

726
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,800
Which was like the primordial 
wave effect previously, where 

727
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,800
like the lava burst just hits 
all of the targets with a flame 

728
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:33,520
shock on it, which does nothing 
in single target from that 

729
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,040
cleave mechanic. 
But it also says lava burst 

730
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:40,240
damage increased by 10%. 
So that alone is probably enough

731
00:43:40,240 --> 00:43:43,400
to just have it be viable. 
Like the 3% DPS that you gain 

732
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,560
from this 10% buff. 
It's probably good enough. 

733
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:53,480
I mean, yeah, I guess that 
that's great if you're doing a 

734
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:57,800
fight like the tic tac toe boss 
in the in the new raid where 

735
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,520
early on it's single target. 
And so I guess this is good 

736
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,920
enough for single target. 
But as you get into the the 

737
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,600
cleave situation where the 
summoning, the ads, being able 

738
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:14,200
to use the enhanced flame, flame
shock voltaic to to start on the

739
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:20,680
that AOE, get the lava burst 
onto a bunch of them gives you 

740
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:23,720
like that AOE on demand on very 
short demand because the 

741
00:44:23,720 --> 00:44:25,800
cooldown of voltaic is is quite 
low. 

742
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:29,200
So I guess that's good. 
But the fact that it's it's 

743
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:33,560
there even at a pure single 
target feels like you said, like

744
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:35,520
the rest of the talents are 
lacking. 

745
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:40,680
So what could use the Shine for 
Elementals talents? 

746
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,560
I mean just just to mention it 
right, like because you said 

747
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,640
that you can just flexibly I, I 
forgot how you phrase this like 

748
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,960
you can just use the voltaic 
place to just dot them up 

749
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,480
immediately, which is 
technically true, but also not 

750
00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:01,440
really right because flame shock
has an 82nd 18 second duration, 

751
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:03,840
right? 
And the cooldown on voltaic 

752
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,560
place is 15 seconds. 
So you're basically pressing it 

753
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:11,120
on cool down just to keep the 
dot up in single target anyway, 

754
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:13,760
right? 
Because there's also no procs or

755
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,720
anything anymore. 
Like show when you press 

756
00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:18,240
ascendance you get your flame 
shock up and also you get the 

757
00:45:18,240 --> 00:45:20,440
filamental. 
So you get like 1 double 

758
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,160
duration flame shock. 
But generally you always have to

759
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:27,040
press it every 15 seconds just 
exactly there. 

760
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:31,400
So if you press it and then you 
have the ADS spawning like 8 

761
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:35,320
seconds later, well, that's kind
of an issue, right? 

762
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:36,720
You can just not press it, I 
guess. 

763
00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:39,160
And then you don't have a flame 
shock active, so you can't 

764
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,480
really press your lava burst 
anymore, which that's also 

765
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,000
awkward, right? 
Like a lot of people want to see

766
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,000
flame shock come back. 
So Voltaic Place wouldn't 

767
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,680
replace flame shock entirely. 
It's just an additional button 

768
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:53,960
for that reason. 
So you just have it on. 

769
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,960
You have just flame shock 
readily available, maybe still 

770
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:01,280
with the short colon that it has
right now, just use on the boss 

771
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,360
or something or on whatever main
target. 

772
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,400
And then you just have that as 
like a cleafing or a wee thing, 

773
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:10,800
whatever you want to call it 
leads to some other issues 

774
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,120
technically. 
And I mean, the intended goal 

775
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:14,920
here is to kind of cut back on 
buttons. 

776
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:18,200
So it's just having like those 
redundant buttons just both 

777
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:21,080
living there on your boss. 
It's just kind of awkward. 

778
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,400
So I see why they didn't do it 
that way. 

779
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:30,320
I see why they haven't replaced 
that, but so yeah, just to 

780
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,320
mention that I kind of forgot 
what your your actual question 

781
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,160
was that you asked me. 
Could you repeat that? 

782
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,400
Do you remember? 
Oh man, we got so into the 

783
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:43,720
weeds, but it was basically what
talents need the shine in order 

784
00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:47,400
to give Elemental some some 
options like. 

785
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:49,760
Yeah. 
I mean, the, The thing is like 

786
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:56,360
we have what is it now 15 or so 
talents down in the bottom there

787
00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:00,720
and four of those nodes of all 
those points are just voltaic 

788
00:47:00,720 --> 00:47:03,280
place. 
So the moment you decide I will 

789
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,680
not take voltaic place at all, 
you just kind of pick everything

790
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:08,720
else. 
That's just kind of how that 

791
00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:12,840
works out, right? 
Generally, you could probably 

792
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:19,120
say that all the pet talents, 
like what is it? 

793
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:27,200
Everlasting Elements, that's the
name, increases the duration of 

794
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,120
the elemental slightly, and it 
basically just says they get one

795
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:33,800
more cast in when they're alive,
right? 

796
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,320
So for something like a fire 
elemental that gets spawned 

797
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:40,520
every 3 minutes, let's say, 
right, if you're not even 

798
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:44,000
playing all of the other 
elemental talents, just having 

799
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:49,280
like it does one more cast 
doesn't really matter that much.

800
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:54,400
It's kind of a little 
disappointing, kind of 

801
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:57,040
questionable though, how many 
points you actually want to put 

802
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:00,280
into your passive pet talent. 
So I like, I do. 

803
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,240
I'm not the biggest fan of the 
elementals. 

804
00:48:03,240 --> 00:48:04,880
I'm not the biggest fan of the 
pets. 

805
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:06,960
I do like the flavour that they 
give. 

806
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:10,920
I like the whole like, OK, we're
drawing in the primal elementals

807
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,280
and manifestations of them. 
It's just kind of cool, sure, 

808
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:18,160
but just have like the dude next
to you is just casting emulated 

809
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:20,400
Fire blast or something and 
that's it. 

810
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,360
And then sometimes he just turns
around because he doesn't find a

811
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,960
way to actually get to the boss 
and just kind of fails. 

812
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:31,520
Like we added a lot of the time 
now in the War Within where I 

813
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,280
had friends that just sent me 
clips where like one of their 

814
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,400
elementals just balled into the 
last room in Priory and just 

815
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,520
pulled everything. 
We still don't know how that 

816
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:45,200
happened, but yeah, that 
happened consistently for some 

817
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:47,720
people. 
So yeah, like all of the pet 

818
00:48:47,720 --> 00:48:50,360
talons kind of could use some 
love, in my opinion. 

819
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:54,320
Again, it would kind of make 
sense that it doesn't happen 

820
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:57,760
right now just because they want
to have a lot of passive 

821
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,960
talents, right? 
And also they have reworked, 

822
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:05,600
removed, added a good few 
things, right? 

823
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:09,600
So at that point, you just kind 
of touch everything, which that 

824
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:16,400
was never expected to happen 
here, But yeah, so those talents

825
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,520
could use some love. 
I mean, I'm personally not the 

826
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:20,880
biggest fan of all of the 
passive stat notes that they've 

827
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:22,480
that they're bringing in with 
Midnight. 

828
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,120
But like we have a talent that 
just gives you a 3% mastery, 

829
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:32,080
which another one that just 
gives you 3% haste, another one 

830
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,920
that increases your elemental 
damage by 2%, then another one 

831
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:39,000
that gives you 3% more elemental
damage and all of that. 

832
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:44,400
So all of those, well, it's 
like, here's a number you doubt 

833
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:49,080
deal 2% more damage. 
OK, I guess that's fine. 

834
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:53,400
I guess having cursive talents 
is kind of OK, but also it's 

835
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:59,360
kind of uninteresting. 
We've gotten 3 new talents and 

836
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:03,160
each of the hero talents, are 
those much the same sort of 

837
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,160
passive, uninteresting ones, or 
are there any highlights in 

838
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:08,960
those? 
I guess start with the Farsi 

839
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:13,280
year. 
Yeah, I mean, Farcia is pretty 

840
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:18,120
boring, right? 
Farcia, one of them now now 

841
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:22,800
names, I think it's Mystic 
Knowledge gives you 1% intellect

842
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:28,000
per active ancestor, right? 
So generally you have like your 

843
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,880
ancestor Swiftness and your 
Stormkeeper, both of them spawn 

844
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:33,320
once you have 2% more into the 
2% more damage. 

845
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:34,080
Great. 
OK. 

846
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,840
Then. 
You can also just randomly spawn

847
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:43,920
more still, so sometimes it 
might be 3%, but yeah, so that's

848
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:49,120
pretty boring in my opinion. 
Then you have another one that's

849
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:52,040
called Windspeaker, which 
basically just reduces some cast

850
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,800
times by 10%, including Lava 
Burst. 

851
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:58,120
Can you notice that? 
Yes. 

852
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:01,120
If I take the tone point out and
then put it back in and just sit

853
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,400
there and just compare those two
cast times, I will be able to 

854
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:08,480
notice. 
But in normal gameplay also just

855
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,520
becomes normal, right? 
Like if, if every if if it's 

856
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:13,920
always 10% faster than just the 
new cast time of it. 

857
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:20,440
It's just there and then the 
last point just gives you like 

858
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:25,360
an extra 20% proc way proc 
chance for lava surges, which 

859
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:27,400
doesn't mean that it goes from 
10 to 30%. 

860
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:33,680
It just means it goes from 11:50
as far as we can tell, which I 

861
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:35,440
don't really notice the 
difference. 

862
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,440
Right? 
Like if it's if I get a pluck 

863
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:40,720
every, what is it in 20 seconds 
or every 18? 

864
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,840
Not really something that I can 
personally notice. 

865
00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:51,720
Oh, sorry, go on. 
Sorry, I think it the only time 

866
00:51:51,720 --> 00:51:54,880
that like, like obviously you're
going to have all these talents 

867
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:59,800
and so you won't notice it, but 
it it'll make a difference if 

868
00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:03,120
the proc comes up earlier when 
you're when you're dealing with 

869
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:05,640
movement. 
But it's because this change is 

870
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:10,440
so small and so passive and so 
unnoticeable. 

871
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:13,680
Yeah. 
Like it's OK. 

872
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:15,880
We were about to go over to 
Stormbringer. 

873
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:18,000
Any better talents there? 
Yeah. 

874
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:19,920
Yeah, I do think so. 
Right. 

875
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:24,000
Like the first town Stormwell 
basically just says casting 

876
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:27,120
Stormkeeper gives you 10 
maelstrom and your storm 

877
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,480
elemental, which is spawned by 
casting Stormkeeper last two 

878
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,280
seconds longer, 2 seconds, 
right? 

879
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,520
Like it's, it's a cast doesn't 
really matter much. 

880
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:38,440
But having some actual milestone
generation, having something 

881
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:40,920
happen when you press a button 
like Stormkeeper is kind of 

882
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,000
neat. 
Don't think it necessarily 

883
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:47,120
needed it, but I mean, it's 
generally a thing that they want

884
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:49,000
to do and a thing that I 
appreciate. 

885
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,600
Well, like they say, don't just 
have empty globals, right? 

886
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:54,560
We're not sitting there and 
press a button and then nothing 

887
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:56,920
happens and then I press another
button and then the thing 

888
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:58,840
happens. 
But just every button is 

889
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,440
supposed to have immediate 
feedback, which I think is 

890
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:03,280
reasonable for a game like this,
right? 

891
00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:08,360
The second talent, I don't even 
remember the name, it's just 2% 

892
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:11,760
nature damage. 
Yeah, wasn't really too much, 

893
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:13,800
not really interesting. 
The last one is called 

894
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:17,800
Descending Skies, and they 
basically took the idea from our

895
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:21,080
current tier set. 
And every time you cast 

896
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:26,480
Descendants, you just get a 
Tempest, which that's kind of 

897
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:30,200
cool, all right? 
Like because when you play 

898
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:34,640
Stormbringer, you're kind of go 
fishing for Tempest before you 

899
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:38,000
press Ascendance anyway. 
But sometimes you just can't do 

900
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:39,520
that, right? 
Sometimes the proc just doesn't 

901
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:43,920
happen or something. 
So being able to just have the 

902
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:47,080
proc every time you press the 
button is just kind of neat. 

903
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:50,960
OK, yeah, that does sound 
better. 

904
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:55,920
On top of that though, I believe
the way that Tempest now works 

905
00:53:56,040 --> 00:54:03,480
for Elemental has changed. 
So like going from the War 

906
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,800
Within, how was it in the War 
Within and how is it now? 

907
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,400
Well, it hasn't really changed, 
but also it has, right? 

908
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:14,360
Like previously there were two 
different ways that you could 

909
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,480
get storm stormwater, like 
Tempest box, right? 

910
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:21,520
One of them was just like every 
300 miles from spent you would 

911
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:23,680
get them, right? 
So what we did was like have 

912
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:28,120
counters there that just counted
how many miles from you spend in

913
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:30,840
like a run or something. 
And then that didn't really work

914
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:33,640
sometimes. 
And the week ours were bugging 

915
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:36,560
out or the counting in game 
didn't really work and it was 

916
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:39,800
just kind of annoying. 
And then the other way was like 

917
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,680
every time you cast lightning 
mode or chain lightning, it was 

918
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:46,720
like an RPPM. 
So like a time normalized random

919
00:54:46,720 --> 00:54:57,040
effect that just poked something
and that after you had was 3 

920
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:00,720
after poked 3 times, you just 
got The Tempest, right. 

921
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:05,800
So how it works now is that 
every time you spend Maelstrom, 

922
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:07,720
there's like a chance for it to 
happen. 

923
00:55:07,720 --> 00:55:09,560
That scales with how much 
milestone we spend, right? 

924
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:12,560
So if it's a more expensive 
thing, it's more likely. 

925
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:17,000
So it's basically the same idea 
as deeply rooted elements, the 

926
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:20,600
sentence book that we had in War
Within. 

927
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:26,480
So just like a mixed mash of 
different things. 

928
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:29,680
It just kind of feels the same 
still because you you press your

929
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:31,640
spender, you get The Tempest at 
some point right? 

930
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:33,320
Too much. 
If that's also normalized, I 

931
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:35,240
would. 
Assume that it is at this point,

932
00:55:35,240 --> 00:55:38,280
because most things Blizzards 
has in terms of RNG now I'll 

933
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:42,360
just kind of forced to have 
procs after a certain amount of 

934
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:43,600
time or something like that, 
right? 

935
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:47,720
Because being completely swingy,
like sometimes you just sit 

936
00:55:47,720 --> 00:55:50,280
there, press your spend the 
three times you just have 3 

937
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:53,040
Tempest and sometimes you just 
press it 10 times and nothing 

938
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:56,960
happens at all. 
So. 

939
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,040
Yeah, that. 
Was changed. 

940
00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:05,320
I do think that it's for the 
better generally because sitting

941
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:08,680
there with the 300 counter, for 
example, right? 

942
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:13,000
Like if you are at the end of a 
poll and you're sitting at 280 

943
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:15,160
spend and you know, like the 
next time you press your 

944
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:19,120
earthquake or whatever, you will
get this this proc, but you're 

945
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:21,160
just sitting there like fighting
one enemy. 

946
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:23,080
So what do you do? 
We just not pressing your 

947
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:25,880
spending anymore. 
That's not really good 

948
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:33,240
generally, whether the change. 
Actually solves that. 

949
00:56:33,240 --> 00:56:35,640
Is it? 
Is written more different piece,

950
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:40,040
right? 
Because we found out. 

951
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:43,040
On. 
The guy in the discord arc found

952
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:48,200
out that deeply rooted elements 
is based on like a deck of cards

953
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:50,240
thing right? 
So you know, like every time or 

954
00:56:50,240 --> 00:56:53,040
every, I don't remember the 
numbers of the top right now, 

955
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:55,560
every 30 times you press your 
spender you would get 2 procs or

956
00:56:55,560 --> 00:57:02,480
something like that, right? 
It's kind of the idea so. 

957
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:04,400
We just started. 
Tracking that with we. 

958
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:07,000
Goers. 
So we just could tell, hey, we 

959
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:10,120
cannot get an ascendance block 
now or we have to get one now. 

960
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:13,840
So if we were highly likely to 
get one at the end of a pack, we

961
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:17,080
just would stop spending. 
And if we knew that we couldn't 

962
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,880
get one, we would just try to 
get more spenders out to just 

963
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:24,400
psyche through that really quick
to try to get the deck stack, 

964
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:30,160
yeah, for the next pack, right. 
And yeah. 

965
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:33,920
All of that kind of thing. 
Might still exist now with 

966
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:36,560
Tempest, right? 
We haven't really looked much 

967
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:41,240
into how the randomness works 
there, but you can assume that 

968
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:43,800
if it's worded the same way and 
just kind of works the same way 

969
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:45,920
that it might just use the same 
RNG, right? 

970
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:52,120
So that's a bit of a concern, 
but other than that it's just 

971
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:56,160
generally better now. 
OK, so then with. 

972
00:57:56,200 --> 00:58:01,000
All those concerns with the way 
that it had to be tracked, does 

973
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:04,880
elemental lose out more than 
most classes with the changes to

974
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:08,560
the API? 
The quote UN quote add on 

975
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:15,800
Apocalypse well. 
I don't think so. 

976
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:18,520
All of the things that we wanted
to track are just kind of gone 

977
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:22,040
now. 
There are some things. 

978
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,120
Like. 
I alluded to it a few times 

979
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:26,200
like. 
Lava Search. 

980
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:29,480
Kind of works in a way that 
system you can just kind of 

981
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:31,640
predict when your procs are 
happening. 

982
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:35,440
We have never really tracked 
that because it's just kind of 

983
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:37,720
annoying and no one really likes
it. 

984
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:41,880
We would have probably started 
tracking it in midnight because 

985
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:44,200
there's really nothing else to 
track and really nothing else to

986
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:45,280
do. 
But now we can't. 

987
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:53,000
So I guess that's fine. 
And all of the box or the weird 

988
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,160
mechanics or the things that 
Blizzard didn't allow us to 

989
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:57,720
track that we had, we got us to 
work around, they just removed 

990
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:02,440
now. 
So now with the new system. 

991
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:05,200
Like the deck? 
Of card thing that I talked 

992
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:07,920
about right now with Tempest, 
right, like being able to track 

993
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:12,640
that would be kind of nice. 
You probably could still track 

994
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:16,000
that if you're just kind of 
degenerate enough and just kind 

995
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:18,320
of have like an extra button 
that just tells you, hey, I just

996
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:21,280
got a Tempest, right, so you 
could just macro more things. 

997
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:24,080
And it's that that's my concern 
for all that. 

998
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,920
I don't apocalypse thing, right?
Like we are where people just 

999
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:30,640
are not going to sit there and 
just accept it. 

1000
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:33,160
But we'll just try to work 
around everything. 

1001
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:35,960
I know that we like in 
preparation for this, we had a 

1002
00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:40,040
few conversations about like 
ways people figured out how to 

1003
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:43,960
kind of bypass and circumvent 
some of the things that Blizzard

1004
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:46,520
try to not really allow you to 
do. 

1005
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:51,360
So I'm just kind of. 
Concerned that we have. 

1006
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:54,000
To or that people will do stuff 
like that. 

1007
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:56,520
But I mean, at some point you're
just going to have to blame the 

1008
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:59,280
player for that, right? 
I mean, game design only goes so

1009
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:00,800
far. 
If people want to be degenerate 

1010
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:04,880
about it, they will always be. 
And if at the end of the day, 

1011
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:07,760
they have to use like ACT like 
this Final Fantasy thing that 

1012
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:11,240
just reads your network traffic 
and reads your screen and just 

1013
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:15,000
kind of does all of that, which 
is against TOS, right? 

1014
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:18,760
Like it's, it's technically not 
allowed for either final or for 

1015
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:21,840
World of Warcraft, but we will 
probably start doing that at 

1016
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:25,400
some point if the if the gain 
that they can get from it is 

1017
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:28,680
high enough, right? 
I don't think that's actually 

1018
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:30,080
the case for Elemental right 
now. 

1019
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:34,480
I am personally kind of sad 
about losing some of the new 

1020
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:38,760
ones, losing some of that whole 
thing and because you were 

1021
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:40,160
talking about like. 
The add on Apocalypse. 

1022
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:42,600
Specifically some of the 
cooldown manager settings and 

1023
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:47,040
all of that don't really mesh 
well with like tracking debuffs 

1024
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:49,200
and stuff like that. 
So like before take place. 

1025
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:51,920
And if you're just trying to 
figure out, OK, what's my flame 

1026
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:53,920
shock duration, when should I 
refresh? 

1027
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:56,840
What's the pandemic when, when? 
No, I'd like the point where I 

1028
01:00:56,840 --> 01:01:01,160
have to reapply the dot to not 
lose any value out of that. 

1029
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:03,240
You can't really do that 
anymore. 

1030
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:07,800
They just kind of don't track 
that well enough in my opinion. 

1031
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:12,840
I'm not I I haven't researched 
enough to know whether there's 

1032
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:17,160
like an add on that does it at 
this point already or I wouldn't

1033
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:19,000
expect that to be. 
I don't think it you can 

1034
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:23,600
actually do that, but either 
they're going to relax those 

1035
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:27,400
restrictions a bit or maybe 
someone will find a workaround 

1036
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:29,480
or it's just how we're going to 
have to live now, right? 

1037
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:32,640
It is a. 
It is a hard thing. 

1038
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:36,480
Even though we're only one dot, 
so you would think that it would

1039
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:39,240
be fairly easy for us. 
The problem with the variable 

1040
01:01:39,240 --> 01:01:43,320
length when you can have the 
elemental extend extended means 

1041
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:48,880
that you can't simply say like, 
hey, after I send it, let's say 

1042
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:51,600
15 seconds later, it's now in 
pandemic window. 

1043
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:55,040
Because if you've doubled that, 
that distance, sorry, that 

1044
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:57,480
duration, you're, you're 
clipping a lot. 

1045
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:01,000
So yeah, it is hard for 
elemental shaman. 

1046
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:06,280
But like I think we would be 
doing a disservice if we didn't 

1047
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:10,960
talk about elementals, 
defensives and where that is 

1048
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:13,920
with the war, with the war then 
going into midnight. 

1049
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:16,160
So I'll give you the floor for 
this one. 

1050
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:19,160
Yeah, I mean, it's part of the 
whole pruning, right? 

1051
01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:21,080
Like. 
Generally, I think it's fair to 

1052
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:24,760
say that most specs, if not all 
specs, lost some defensive 

1053
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:27,680
capabilities. 
The problem is just where do you

1054
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:30,440
start, right? 
Like for Elemental, we started 

1055
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:37,720
with, well, two, let's say. 3 
defensives, right? 

1056
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:40,360
We have Astral Shift which is 
our main defensive. 

1057
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:43,520
It's like 2 minute cooldown 
reduces all damage by 40%. 

1058
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:48,560
It's generally pretty good with 
the choice talent I know. 

1059
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:52,320
You can either buff it so. 
It reduces more damage or you 

1060
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:55,240
reduce it down to a minute 30, 
which most often you do that 

1061
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:58,840
because 40% basically covers 
everything dangerous in the 

1062
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:01,000
game. 
But like if you don't live it 

1063
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:05,200
with a 40%, you're also going to
live with a 60% Dr., So whatever

1064
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:09,560
the second thing that. 
We have. 

1065
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:14,000
Or had and have Is the F 
elemental right like the F 

1066
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:19,360
elemental when you summon it 
will give you what is it now 10%

1067
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:26,880
HP or is it drop 1515 still? 
Yeah. 15, yeah. 

1068
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:29,640
OK, they changed it previously. 
Was like a 5 minute. 

1069
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:31,440
Cooldown and with a one minute 
duration. 

1070
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:36,000
Now it's through 2.5 minute 
cooldown with a 3 minute 

1071
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:42,280
cooldown with a 32nd duration. 
I think that's correct and also.

1072
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:45,520
They took the. 
Health gain out of the elemental

1073
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:46,880
and put that into an extra 
talent node. 

1074
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:50,200
So you just kind of have to take
an extra talent now, which it 

1075
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:52,440
doesn't really matter. 
We're not really start 4 points 

1076
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:55,040
in the class 3, but it's just 
kind of awkward that you have to

1077
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:58,000
pick talents now for things that
you had previously, I guess. 

1078
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:05,680
But I don't personally care much
for that kind of logic, so. 

1079
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:07,920
The problem with that? 
Notice that it also turns off 

1080
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:11,440
your taunt for the pet right? 
Like previously when you were 

1081
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:14,840
dying in the dungeon or like 
your tank died, you just press 

1082
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:17,600
earth elemental and it's 
probably going to live for like 

1083
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:22,720
5 seconds, maybe 10 which is 
usually enough for a tank to. 

1084
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:27,080
Get rest and cast. 
Like something to maybe try to 

1085
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:28,920
get some aggro back or 
something. 

1086
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:34,200
I definitely found a full wipe, 
yeah. 

1087
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:37,200
I mean. 
I definitely use it a lot for 

1088
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:40,320
that during my bugging areas or 
eras. 

1089
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:44,480
So yeah, like. 
Now with it. 

1090
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:45,920
Not being able to taunt. 
Anymore. 

1091
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:48,120
I mean you can still summon it, 
it just doesn't do anything. 

1092
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:54,200
If your tank dies, you will just
die anyway, so kind of a bit of 

1093
01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:55,640
a loss there. 
Or you. 

1094
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:58,760
Just keep it having the taunt 
and then you just don't get the 

1095
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:01,960
HP, which maybe that's a choice 
for my big plus. 

1096
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:04,040
But then you just lost your 
defensive right? 

1097
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:08,680
And thirdly, like the actual 
defence that we lost, stumble 

1098
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:12,920
walk told him gave us a shield, 
not the biggest shield ever. 

1099
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:15,520
Think it was like 2025% of your 
health or something like that. 

1100
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:18,680
And then it also gave you like a
ticking shield every few 

1101
01:05:18,680 --> 01:05:20,840
seconds. 
So what's kind of need against 

1102
01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:24,720
like damage overtime effects? 
Not really the best spell to 

1103
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:28,640
save you from like a nuke for 
like a big damage event, but 

1104
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:30,400
usually it's served you well 
enough. 

1105
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:33,120
That's completely removed now, 
right? 

1106
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:37,560
Which turns really quickly into 
an issue if you also go to that,

1107
01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:39,640
that our self healing basically 
doesn't exist. 

1108
01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:43,320
I'm not entirely sure how this 
that squish affected that, but 

1109
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:45,560
like our self healing is pitiful
now. 

1110
01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:51,840
Like we just can't do anything 
with it to my understanding. 

1111
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:55,120
Enhancement, at least, can. 
Still heal themselves with 

1112
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:59,720
maelstrom weapons weapon stacks.
But the way that it works now is

1113
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:02,160
you spend and then your healing 
Search afterwards, right? 

1114
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:07,040
So you're just kind of sit there
and just have to also have it so

1115
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:09,520
late that it doesn't really save
you in the moment anymore. 

1116
01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:11,840
You have to prepare it and then 
it's late anyway. 

1117
01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:14,120
We're here to talk about 
elemental. 

1118
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:18,560
So for us, Healing Stream Totem 
doesn't do anything. 

1119
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:19,920
Healing Search doesn't do 
anything. 

1120
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:26,120
The only extra thing that we got
is some or two new talents about

1121
01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:30,160
Earth Shield or like Earth 
Shields put on yourself. 

1122
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:35,720
It has like 9 stacks, maybe 12 
if you're suspect into that, and

1123
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:36,960
every time you take damage it 
heals. 

1124
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:39,320
You for a bit. 
And there's a new talent that 

1125
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:42,640
just says it never loses stacks 
and to heals you for 15 more 

1126
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:45,320
percent. 
Is it a lot? 

1127
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:47,960
No. 
Really isn't anything to write 

1128
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:51,760
home about, No. 
Currently, because of some 

1129
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:55,920
clever use of game mechanics, 
you can just kind of double the 

1130
01:06:56,000 --> 01:07:00,880
healing output from Earth 
Shield, which makes it at least 

1131
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:05,960
worth a a mention. 
But that's a bug and I don't 

1132
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:09,960
really expect that to stay in 
for Midnight, so I think they 

1133
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:11,320
need to make it a default 
behavior. 

1134
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:14,160
It's worthless. 
Without it, I'm sorry. 

1135
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:17,560
I like. 
Yeah. 

1136
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:18,960
Anyways, go ahead. 
No, go on. 

1137
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:24,560
No. 
It's it's such an anemic heel. 

1138
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:29,160
Even if it just stays on and 
every time there is a damage 

1139
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:31,480
event, because it does have its 
own internal cooldown, you're 

1140
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:33,800
not going to catch every damage 
event, right? 

1141
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:36,640
But every time you you have a 
damage event, you get a little 

1142
01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:42,400
bit more health back. 
It's still not doing it. 

1143
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:45,160
Like I don't think a healer is 
going to notice the difference 

1144
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:47,840
between somebody who's got an 
earth shield on and somebody who

1145
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:51,400
doesn't in terms of like 2 
shamans standing beside each 

1146
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:55,320
other. 
And it that is with such a waste

1147
01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:57,240
of talents. 
That you're putting into it and.

1148
01:07:57,240 --> 01:08:00,200
Such a waste of a button press 
if you so happen to go with the 

1149
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:03,000
other choice, which I'll leave 
for you to explain. 

1150
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:05,560
Oh yeah. 
I mean, it's it's basically the 

1151
01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:07,360
question I. 
Like either you're going to have

1152
01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:10,080
the thing where it just doesn't 
lose any sticks, so you just 

1153
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:13,440
have it on yourself. 
You heal, I don't know, maybe a 

1154
01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:15,600
health ball over 5 minute fight 
or something. 

1155
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:17,760
I honestly don't even know the 
number for that. 

1156
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:20,800
But as you said, like 3 seconds.
I think it's the internal 

1157
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:24,439
cooldown, so every 3 seconds you
can heal at all. 

1158
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:27,520
Which the next question is OK. 
Do you even take damage every 3 

1159
01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:31,800
seconds on the fight? 
Like smaller one or slotch fist 

1160
01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:34,840
or something like that where you
have like the permanent AOE just

1161
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:38,720
ticking on you? 
Yes you will just completely 

1162
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:41,240
saturate that ICD. 
You will just get to heal all 

1163
01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:44,840
the time and even then it's kind
of bad right? 

1164
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:48,000
But in a normal fight where you 
just take damage every so often,

1165
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:50,920
it's just kind of useless, 
right? 

1166
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:52,359
And then you're also saying that
like, OK. 

1167
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:57,279
With Farcier, if you're specced 
into that choice, note you go 

1168
01:08:57,279 --> 01:09:01,240
out from 9:00 to 12:00 charges, 
but like after you got healed 12

1169
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:04,680
times you're going to have to 
press the button again, right? 

1170
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:06,160
I mean, technically you can't 
even have. 

1171
01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:09,600
The Earth shield on 2. 
People but just don't bother. 

1172
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:12,520
I mean, put it on there pre 
combat, I guess, but other than 

1173
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:15,359
that it's just there's really no
point, right? 

1174
01:09:16,240 --> 01:09:19,680
The alternative choice note on 
that right now is something 

1175
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:22,359
where like every time you 
refresh Earth Shield, you just 

1176
01:09:22,359 --> 01:09:25,479
get like a big heal depending on
how many charges you're missing,

1177
01:09:27,359 --> 01:09:30,120
whether that's going to be. 
Useful or not is also kind. 

1178
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:33,359
Of up in the air, because I 
mean, it's probably it's 

1179
01:09:33,359 --> 01:09:36,399
probably nice if it's if it 
works, it works. 

1180
01:09:36,399 --> 01:09:39,560
So I like if you need a heal and
your sex are low and you can 

1181
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:43,520
just press the button and you 
just get like a pick like 30,000

1182
01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:46,640
HP heal or something after the 
scratch that squish. 

1183
01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:50,399
That's kind of cool. 
But also if you're saying that 

1184
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:53,800
if you have 11 charges or 
something of the 12 and then you

1185
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:56,240
press the button, nothing 
happens, All right. 

1186
01:09:56,240 --> 01:09:59,880
If you have to actually have it 
expire, nothing happens if you 

1187
01:09:59,880 --> 01:10:02,960
have to refresh it when you're 
full HP or you just don't need 

1188
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:06,760
the heal immediately yet I mean 
you get healed sure, but it's 

1189
01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:10,080
wasted. 
So at the end of the day it's 

1190
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:11,680
just not readily available 
right. 

1191
01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:14,280
So not really much you can do 
about it. 

1192
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:19,160
Yeah, the the way that I. 
I'm looking at this, is that 

1193
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:23,760
with our conversation about not 
having enough things to do while

1194
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:28,080
you're moving or ways to fill 
that gap, it might be that like,

1195
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:32,480
you're below, you're below X 
amount of charges. 

1196
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:37,680
It's worth pressing before you 
go back into combat in a 

1197
01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:40,760
progression situation where you 
get pushed out and you're like, 

1198
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:44,000
oh, I guess I can't, I don't 
have anything to press in this 

1199
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:45,840
button. 
Here's the last thing that you 

1200
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:48,120
do to just give yourself a 
little bit of health going back 

1201
01:10:48,120 --> 01:10:51,200
in. 
Yeah, I mean, maybe right, But. 

1202
01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:53,840
Even at that point. 
If you're expecting to the thing

1203
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:56,560
where it doesn't lose charges, 
you don't need to reapply it. 

1204
01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:58,880
If you put, If you're expecting 
to the thing where it heals you,

1205
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:01,640
you don't really want to use it 
as a movement global because you

1206
01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:04,840
want to have, you want to stay 
at low charges to be able to 

1207
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:08,800
heal yourself, right? 
So it doesn't, it just doesn't 

1208
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:11,840
really make sense. 
It's, I mean, I, I understand 

1209
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:14,480
what I, I do think that I 
understand what they're trying 

1210
01:11:14,480 --> 01:11:17,560
to go with, right? 
Like previously, if you just had

1211
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:19,720
to replay it and nothing 
happened, it just kind of felt 

1212
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:21,600
like a waste of global because 
it is. 

1213
01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:25,360
And so them just giving like 
something to happen in the 

1214
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:27,720
moment when you reapply that, 
it's just kind of cool. 

1215
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:32,560
But yeah. 
I mean the only other. 

1216
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:37,480
Thing that they also added, we 
have a talent that's called Wind

1217
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:40,680
Veil, which was previously 
seasoned wins I think is the 

1218
01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:44,840
name every time you interrupted.
Something. 

1219
01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:49,520
Previously in the Warfin you 
took less damage from. 

1220
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:51,320
That. 
Specific spell school, right? 

1221
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:53,680
So if you kick the fire spell, 
you took less fire damage. 

1222
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:56,080
If you kick the nature spell you
took less nature damage. 

1223
01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:59,760
If you kick like a combination 
of things like in volcanic spell

1224
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:01,800
or something, you just took less
damage from both. 

1225
01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:06,480
And now they just changed it 
that you just take less damage 

1226
01:12:06,480 --> 01:12:10,000
after interrupting any spell. 
The duration on that with 12 

1227
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:12,640
seconds is pretty good to be 
fair. 

1228
01:12:13,480 --> 01:12:16,040
It's just generally A 
situational thing, right? 

1229
01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:20,240
Like if you just interrupted the
enemy, it didn't deal damage, 

1230
01:12:20,400 --> 01:12:23,160
right? 
So now having a damage reduction

1231
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:25,840
against that specific enemy 
might not matter. 

1232
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:28,360
Maybe it does, maybe it's just 
going to start casting something

1233
01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:32,520
immediately after again, has 
happened at times, right? 

1234
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:39,680
But generally, generally it can.
Be very good in like mythic. 

1235
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:43,280
Plus stuff like that. 
But in a rate, either it's 

1236
01:12:43,280 --> 01:12:46,320
incredibly good because you just
sit there and interrupt 

1237
01:12:46,440 --> 01:12:49,480
something all the time, right? 
Like when she has a 12 second 

1238
01:12:49,480 --> 01:12:52,160
cooldown, Winfair has a 12 
second duration. 

1239
01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:55,040
So you just have like permanent 
15% damage reduction, which 

1240
01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:57,080
would be very, very good, 
obviously. 

1241
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:01,080
Or the boss doesn't cost 
anything and you just can't use 

1242
01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:05,280
it, which is probably more 
likely to happen, not the other 

1243
01:13:05,280 --> 01:13:12,640
way, so. 
Overall though, heading into 

1244
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:17,280
midnight, what's your prognosis 
for Shaman? 

1245
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:20,920
For the people who are going to 
be running around in the pre 

1246
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:24,280
patch being like, what in the 
world's going on when we get to 

1247
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:29,120
midnight? 
Is there hope it is lightning in

1248
01:13:29,120 --> 01:13:34,440
a bottle there? 
For elemental, I am doubtful. 

1249
01:13:34,520 --> 01:13:39,800
I like, I mean, I always try to 
be positive about changes, even 

1250
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:45,320
if I'm personally maybe not. 
But I mean, the skeleton is 

1251
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:47,560
there. 
I like it's still the same spec.

1252
01:13:47,560 --> 01:13:51,000
It still has like the very 
characteristic, very special 

1253
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:54,400
elemental buttons and it still 
feels like elemental. 

1254
01:13:55,040 --> 01:13:59,280
I'm just scared that because the
expansion will last usually two 

1255
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:01,160
years, right? 
That's how that usually goes. 

1256
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:04,720
So I'm just kind of scared that 
it will just get boring very 

1257
01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:07,600
quickly if you don't really have
anything special to do, if you 

1258
01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:10,200
if everything's just kind of 
basic. 

1259
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:15,160
I do think that's a concern that
most specs have a lot of other 

1260
01:14:15,160 --> 01:14:18,560
specs have as well, right? 
I don't really think things like

1261
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:22,280
the defensive issue, sure, for 
like high end players or people 

1262
01:14:22,280 --> 01:14:29,000
that want to play in a way that 
they have to be concerned about 

1263
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:30,280
things like that, it will 
matter. 

1264
01:14:30,280 --> 01:14:32,520
Right, but like for. 
The general player base, 

1265
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:34,760
probably not the biggest issue 
right? 

1266
01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:37,080
Like you're not going to die 
because you don't have 1/3 

1267
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:44,000
defensive. 
But generally A spec should be 

1268
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:48,040
fun to play. 
And if it's so easy and so 

1269
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:54,240
simple, you might still just 
enjoy having fun, right? 

1270
01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:56,720
Like turning off your brain, 
pressing buttons, see all the 

1271
01:14:56,720 --> 01:14:59,520
pretty colours and do all of 
that, which I'm a big fan of. 

1272
01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:01,600
That's part of the reason why I 
play elemental, right? 

1273
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:06,000
But I do very much think that 
sometimes you should be able to 

1274
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:09,000
just sit down and just have a 
think about what you try to do 

1275
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:12,680
and just try to be able to 
optimize things if you want to. 

1276
01:15:13,800 --> 01:15:15,640
So yeah, that's kind of my 
concern with. 

1277
01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:17,800
The with. 
How elementals looking in 

1278
01:15:17,800 --> 01:15:22,320
midnight so? 
The lights are on, but you're 

1279
01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:24,400
worried nobody's home. 
Pretty much. 

1280
01:15:26,440 --> 01:15:35,080
OK, well, I I'm hoping. 
For for the excitement to to be 

1281
01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:38,280
there. 
I know tier the first tier sets 

1282
01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:43,520
are never things that like add 
good hooks but hopefully with 

1283
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:47,120
the future seasons we'll get 
that as they. 

1284
01:15:50,320 --> 01:15:53,600
A little bit of inside. 
Baseball is that as I follow 

1285
01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:57,000
these specs, I also see how they
change and go through. 

1286
01:15:57,280 --> 01:15:59,880
And one of the things that we 
were talking about as we were 

1287
01:15:59,880 --> 01:16:05,000
setting up this show is how 
Elemental got that first brush 

1288
01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:08,000
and that first pass. 
And it doesn't feel like they've

1289
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:11,240
come back to really add in those
hooks. 

1290
01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:17,200
And we had a similar situation 
with the beginning of the war 

1291
01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:21,040
within where it wasn't until the
the .5 patch that they were 

1292
01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:25,880
like, OK, let's get this up and 
going hoping that that is not 

1293
01:16:25,880 --> 01:16:30,000
the situation. 
But like as we are so close to 

1294
01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:33,760
all of this going live, that may
be the truth of the matter. 

1295
01:16:35,440 --> 01:16:39,240
We will see if people want to 
find you and everything that 

1296
01:16:39,240 --> 01:16:40,320
you. 
Do where can. 

1297
01:16:40,320 --> 01:16:44,040
We find that, well, generally, 
like on Earth, shine on the. 

1298
01:16:44,240 --> 01:16:49,360
Charmin discord right? 
If people have like things. 

1299
01:16:49,360 --> 01:16:50,520
That they want. 
To know usually. 

1300
01:16:50,520 --> 01:16:53,920
My discord DM so open maybe 
sometimes I'm a bit bad about 

1301
01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:56,440
responding to things but then 
just just write me again. 

1302
01:16:56,440 --> 01:17:02,000
I will probably notice at some 
point, but yeah, like Earth. 

1303
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:03,480
Shine discord is usually pretty 
good. 

1304
01:17:03,840 --> 01:17:07,680
Way other than that, like the 
guy, it's small head is the one 

1305
01:17:07,680 --> 01:17:13,040
that I do and yeah. 
Maybe at some point. 

1306
01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:15,440
Streaming, but we will see you 
in that one. 

1307
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:19,840
Well, Hawk, thank. 
You so much for coming on to the

1308
01:17:19,840 --> 01:17:24,160
show and I'm hoping for the best
for Elemental Shaman. 

1309
01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:26,680
It is of course, something near 
and dear to me, as I am stubbly 

1310
01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:30,400
Shaman all the time. 
But until next time folks, may 

1311
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:31,560
all your hits be kits.