1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,800 You know, I, but I was scared to do it. 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,160 I was afraid, you know, I never run a full time company. 3 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:08,000 I had two kids, I had a mortgage. 4 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:12,080 The bills kept coming in and, and, but I, I'd met with a buddy 5 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:15,440 of mine or wasn't a friend of mine at the time, but he also 6 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:17,680 owned the company and he was kind of similar position. 7 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,960 And I met with him a number of times and meeting with him gave 8 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,720 me a lot of confidence too. There was different exercises 9 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,960 that I did like getting over fear, you know, doing a business 10 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,120 plan. There were a ton of things, you 11 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,759 know, not only it's fine to have confidence, but then you also 12 00:00:32,759 --> 00:00:35,080 had to have data and you have to be able to back it up. 13 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:38,960 So I, I went through a number of exercises to kind of get me to, 14 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,280 to have the confidence to do it. And that was like a 678 month 15 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,000 process. I wrote a book called the 16 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,360 blueprint, how I kind of figured all this stuff out. 17 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,240 And in it I talked about this is exactly what I did. 18 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:52,200 I met with other entrepreneurs, I did a business plan, I did a 19 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:56,960 fear it studying exercise. I did all these things and so 20 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:59,200 that gave me the confidence. Before we dive back into today's 21 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:00,960 conversation, I want to share something important. 22 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,600 This episode includes a pay partnership with Better Help, a 23 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:05,720 platform designed to make starting therapy easier. 24 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:07,960 I know from my own journey as a leader and entrepreneur that 25 00:01:07,960 --> 00:01:09,400 life can sometimes feel overwhelming. 26 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,080 There are seasons where stress, uncertainty, and pressure build 27 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,080 up, and you need a safe space to process it all. 28 00:01:14,320 --> 00:01:17,120 That's where therapy comes in. Therapy isn't only for people 29 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,360 facing clinical challenges. It's a space to reflect, grow, 30 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,160 and find better ways to manage stress, relationships, and 31 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,760 personal goals. 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Dot com forward slash King 47 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,680 James, that's betterhub.com/kingjames to get 48 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:03,400 10% off your first month of therapy. 49 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:05,840 Once again, this is a paid partnership with better help and 50 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:07,080 I encourage you to take that first step. 51 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:09,160 If you've been thinking about it, sometimes the best 52 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:11,120 investment you can make these in yourself. 53 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,440 Welcome to The Kingdom's podcast, where we share the 54 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:24,120 stories of extraordinary people and dissect hot, relevant topics 55 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,840 that shape our world. From visionary leaders to 56 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,120 trailblazing creatives, we uncover the mindset, strategy, 57 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,400 and grit behind greatness. Whether it's business, culture, 58 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,040 or personal growth, we ask the real questions. 59 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,920 This isn't just conversation, it's transformation. 60 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,440 The Kingdom's podcast, Your next breakthrough starts here. 61 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:48,880 Music licensing reimagined your life. 62 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,080 Ladies and gentlemen, you'll once again welcome to the King 63 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:58,000 James podcast and today I've got will be fighting out of Chicago, 64 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:06,800 IL Macwortham, Kevin. Barnacle, that's an amazing 65 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:08,080 intro. I feel like this is like the 66 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,000 Chicago Bulls intro or something. 67 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,360 I love it. Whoa, Chicago Bulls. 68 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,160 That's the basketball team. Yes. 69 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:20,360 How how you guys did in the NBA? This year we're not so great. 70 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,200 I'm a season ticket holder a long time. 71 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:25,720 We used to be doing great in the 90s with Michael Jordan. 72 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,120 You might be familiar with but. Yeah, Michael. 73 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,520 Jordan recently. Recently, not so. 74 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:31,320 Great. Hopefully. 75 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:36,640 We'll turn it around, yeah. Hopefully, hopefully and let me 76 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:38,560 see. I've not really been following 77 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:44,280 the NBA somewhat lately, but the last time I checked, you know 78 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:45,200 the box. Yeah. 79 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,320 Milwaukee boxer won the on the tournament. 80 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:49,280 Yeah. Of course. 81 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,000 That's because there's a Nigerian on that team. 82 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:54,160 Yeah. Yeah, it is. 83 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:55,560 Yeah, it is. It's a combo, yeah. 84 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,080 Yeah. Oh, wow. 85 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:00,960 So you see, your son is a good son. 86 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:02,760 That's, that's the, that's the reason why he likes you. 87 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,640 Yeah. And if your son loves Yanis, 88 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,120 he's going to like me. So you need, you need to get 89 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,200 yourself to watch this podcast. I will for sure. 90 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,520 I always put him on the car and, you know, he could care less 91 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:16,399 about listening, but I'll make him listen to it, yeah. 92 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,680 OK, OK. And of course, you know I 93 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,480 prepared your introduction, so please sit back and let me give 94 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,920 you your flowers. So ladies and gentlemen, today I 95 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,440 am joined by a remarkable guest, Kevin Barnacle. 96 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:34,760 Kevin is a tech entrepreneur, author and founder of Control 97 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,320 Legal technology company. He builds from scratch without 98 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,800 high experience, scaled into one of the fastest growing companies 99 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:48,680 in the US, and eventually sold not once but twice for millions 100 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:53,880 to Epic, a global tech giant. He's also an Amazon best selling 101 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,360 author of The Blueprint, starting a successful business 102 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:01,160 and currently exploring passions in publishing and film 103 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:03,880 production. From learning leadership on the 104 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:08,040 job to mastering financial literacy, give a team into 105 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,520 subscription modules and practicing mindset mastery 106 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,480 through meditation and therapy, Kevin's story easily even proves 107 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,440 that you don't need all the answers to start, but you do 108 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:21,400 need the right mindset to feel strong. 109 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:31,480 Kevin, welcome to the show. Yeah, you, you're welcome. 110 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:32,880 That of course, you know, you're always welcome. 111 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,480 It's interesting, you know, reading through your 112 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,000 introduction, right? You actually stand for 113 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,480 everything that The Kingdom's podcast stands for. 114 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:42,760 And when you look at The Kingdom's broadcast on or 115 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:47,200 Spotify or Apple podcast, what do you see as the subtitle of a 116 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,600 podcast? It's about growth mindset, 117 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:52,440 leadership and business insights. 118 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:56,560 And if that were to be a person? Thank you. 119 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:01,840 Yeah, I definitely. I read, Yeah, I read the 120 00:06:01,840 --> 00:06:03,320 description of the podcast. I'm like that. 121 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,240 That's exactly what I'm all about as well. 122 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,560 So that is exactly. So tell me, tell, tell me. 123 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,240 I've like, done a good job, you know, curated. 124 00:06:12,280 --> 00:06:15,000 Yeah, you did phenomenal. Good job. 125 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,560 The King. The king of insurance. 126 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:26,720 You know, it's, it's interesting how life just plays out. 127 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,880 When I started, there's some guy in your neck of the woods who 128 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,000 was telling me you need to create a niche. 129 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,400 You just a generalist, blah, blah, blah. 130 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,000 You cannot make it to the top, you know, without creating a 131 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,000 niche. I'm like, I will discover what 132 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:42,240 this is about. Don't worry. 133 00:06:42,280 --> 00:06:45,920 And you know, when I be discovered it right, I knew, you 134 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:50,240 know, when I started, it was about sharing the stories of 135 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:53,280 ordinary people doing extraordinary things. 136 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:57,400 And, you know, some people liked it and, you know, some people 137 00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,840 were like, Nah, I don't like the idea of being painted as an 138 00:06:59,840 --> 00:07:04,000 ordinary person who's spinning around. 139 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,360 We will spin it around. And, you know, over time, I've 140 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,400 got to discover that what really do I care about? 141 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:16,000 What really do I care about of growth mindset, leadership and 142 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,080 of course, you know, with my pieces and find this background 143 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,480 of pieces and sites and you know, I started to, you know, 144 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:27,080 find big minds like yourself from around the world to speak 145 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,280 to these topics. And I only say something. 146 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,040 I have only two goals to achieve with this broadcast. 147 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,360 And those two goals are to educate and to motivate. 148 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,600 If I do that, my job is done. I don't like to stress myself. 149 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,640 Yeah, I love that. I love that you said that too. 150 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,600 And the kind of the pivot of the podcast, and it's something I 151 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,920 actually talk about in my book too, is like running the 152 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,600 business is hard, right? You're running the business and 153 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,560 you've got to do something that not only provides value for 154 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,440 listeners, you're getting good feedback there. 155 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,840 Also something that you're passionate about and that you're 156 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,760 interested in because it is hard running the business and you've 157 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,480 got to have that. You've got to have that base of 158 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,400 being passionate about it to want to push through all the 159 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,760 obstacles because there are a ton of obstacles. 160 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,480 So you know, the fact that you're doing something, you're 161 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,200 getting, you're getting up and talking to folks about the same 162 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,040 topics that you're passionate about, that they're passionate 163 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,480 about. That's how you persevere through 164 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:26,800 the hard time. So good for you. 165 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:29,280 Absolutely. Thank you very much. 166 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,680 And of course, you know, at the risk of sounding like a broken 167 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,840 record, there's something that I always say that an attitude of 168 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,559 gratitude is good attitude. I'm grateful to you to have you 169 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:42,280 on the forecast today. And I always say that anytime a 170 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,000 person shares their time with you, they share their life with 171 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,160 you. But press the SI unit for 172 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,960 measuring life as time. So I'm really grateful for your 173 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:52,840 time. I do not take it for granted at 174 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:54,400 all. Yeah, same, same with you. 175 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:56,160 Thanks for having me and thank you for. 176 00:08:58,000 --> 00:08:59,440 It's good having great minds like you. 177 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:04,720 Think about it like 30 years ago. 30 years ago, these kind of 178 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,360 things were not possible. I'm grateful for for technology 179 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,840 and AI, you know, making these kind of interactions possible. 180 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:16,520 Tapping into the video, I'm not I see myself as not very young. 181 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:18,920 I'm not very old. I'm just like the sweet sport 182 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:23,160 after the three years old millennial growing up, I used to 183 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,960 read, you know, my dad had, you know, this really massive 184 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,680 library. And I was introduced to 185 00:09:28,680 --> 00:09:33,880 philosophy and psychology very early in life, reading the works 186 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:38,520 of, you know, great minds like Aristotle, Socrates, even 187 00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:42,280 contemporary philosophers like Bertrin Grossel, Winston 188 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,200 Churchill. A lot of people don't realize 189 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:47,120 that Winston Churchill actually won a Nobel Prize for 190 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,120 literature, like indeed, Veteran Wassell as well. 191 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:56,000 I read their books and I used to wish how I wish I could, you 192 00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:00,080 know, have a verbal discussion, you know, some of these great 193 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:01,320 minds. Yeah. 194 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:07,040 And I think I was born at the right time to grow up at the 195 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,240 right time to do this. Yeah. 196 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:11,200 Right. Yeah, because back then you 197 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:12,560 wouldn't have been able to talk to them, right? 198 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,080 They're very unlikely. Yeah. 199 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,680 Cool. So I'm privileged, you know, to 200 00:10:18,680 --> 00:10:21,400 be able to speak with the great minds, you know, like yourself 201 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,560 across the world. But you know, talking about 202 00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:29,280 business, you actually builds control without any prior text 203 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,960 that of experience. What gave you that courage to to 204 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,160 take that leap? You know, it's a constant leap 205 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,720 into entrepreneurship. Yeah. 206 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,200 You know, I was, my whole background was in sales and 207 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:44,320 there's probably no more entrepreneurship type of job in 208 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,280 corporate America than being in sales. 209 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:48,520 You really, there's a lot of things that are on you. 210 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,640 You got to wake up and you know, at least the roles that I was in 211 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,600 go find opportunities anyway. So I learned, I felt like I 212 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:58,320 learned a lot about business being in sales from finding 213 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,560 customers, keeping customers, building a business, making it 214 00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:03,080 profitable, all those type of things. 215 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,960 And I was the number one sales guy at this company and, and we 216 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,920 were selling software to to lawyers for them to help them 217 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:12,960 deal with lawsuits and investigations. 218 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,560 So they there be a lawsuit they had to go through, look through 219 00:11:15,560 --> 00:11:18,640 a bunch of emails and we would sell them the tool and then they 220 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:20,440 wouldn't have a lawsuit for a couple months and all of a 221 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,600 sudden they would have a lawsuit and they would forget how to use 222 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:25,760 the tool. They'll call me as the sales guy 223 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,160 saying I need help, I need help. And I wasn't really supposed to 224 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:30,960 be helping them with the tool. That was for another team, but I 225 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,200 would kind of give them some advice or get people to help 226 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:34,400 them. And this happening over and over 227 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,440 and over and over. ANYWAYS, so I knew there was a 228 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:38,320 market opportunity, right? So that's what I would say to 229 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,560 any entrepreneurs like start with what is the market 230 00:11:41,560 --> 00:11:44,880 opportunity and make sure that people actually care about what 231 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:46,800 you're doing. I knew that they care because 232 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,400 they kept coming to me and I was trying to find companies out 233 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,360 there that could help them and there was really none or they 234 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,360 were doing a bad job. So I was always very 235 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:58,560 entrepreneurial, you know, minded. 236 00:11:58,560 --> 00:12:00,920 I always want to run my own company, but I was just about 237 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,000 your age. I had two young kids. 238 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:04,920 I was married. My wife didn't work at, you 239 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,080 know, I was, it was a high paying job and but I felt like, 240 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,360 man, there's someone has got to do this business and it, there's 241 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,120 no one better to do with me. And that the confidence I had 242 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,360 was, I've always been a kind of a confident person because I 243 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,400 know I, I work hard, I try hard, I care a lot. 244 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,920 So, you know, I, but I was scared to do it. 245 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,280 I was afraid, you know, I never run a full time company. 246 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,120 I had two kids, I had a mortgage. 247 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,920 The bills kept coming in. And, and, but I, I'd met with a 248 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,560 buddy of mine or wasn't a friend of mine at the time, but he also 249 00:12:37,560 --> 00:12:39,800 owned the company and he was kind of similar position. 250 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,080 And I met with him a number of times and meeting with him gave 251 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,840 me a lot of confidence too. There was different exercises 252 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:50,120 that I did like getting over fear, you know, doing a business 253 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,280 plan. There were a ton of things, you 254 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:54,920 know, not only it's fine to have confidence, but then you also 255 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,240 had to have data and you have to be able to back it up. 256 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,120 So I, I went through a number of exercises to kind of get me to, 257 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:03,960 to have the confidence to do it. And that was like a six, 7 258 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,160 eighth month process. I wrote a book called the 259 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,520 Blueprint, how I kind of figured all this stuff out. 260 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,400 And in it I talked about this is exactly what I did. 261 00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:14,360 I met with other entrepreneurs. I did a business plan, I did a 262 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:17,920 fear it, studying, exercise. I did all these things. 263 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,320 And so that gave me the confidence. 264 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,120 I was still afraid to do it, but I did it, you know, and the 265 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:24,920 courage. And then the minute I did it, I 266 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,800 knew it was the right decision. Wow, the right decision. 267 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,480 You know, talking about you having that relationship with 268 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:36,160 your friend reminds me of what the Bible sees as ion sharpened 269 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,280 ions too. Shot by Chaplin, the continent 270 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:44,880 of fighting brethren. You know, it's very important to 271 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:49,120 what I say, associate and fraternize with people of like 272 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,600 minds and like goals, like directions in life. 273 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,920 And of course, you know, to our audience, I hope you're picking 274 00:13:55,920 --> 00:14:01,280 up on this, right? So I remember when I was going 275 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:05,200 to start the podcast, there are people who did not understand 276 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:09,200 the dream. And you know what they there's? 277 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:10,880 There's always gonna be funnier, though. 278 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:12,960 Yeah, that. Always does discourage me 279 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:14,680 because like, oh your finance guy? 280 00:14:14,680 --> 00:14:16,800 What's the finance guy looking for in the world? 281 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:18,200 Media. Yeah. 282 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:26,400 Let's have a conversation today with global top 2.5% today and 283 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:28,800 you know. You know, yeah, it's all 284 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:30,600 Congrats. Yeah, that's great. 285 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,760 Now there's always people, you know, there's there's always 286 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,480 doubters, there's always haters. You know, I don't know how many 287 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,120 people told me I was crazy. You know, they're like, you're 288 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:42,360 making all this money. You're we've got a pretty easy 289 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,280 job. Wouldn't you don't start your 290 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,600 own company. I thought about starting my own 291 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:47,720 company. I never do it. 292 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:49,360 They were, this is things that they were saying to me. 293 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,920 I don't so many people and I was like, they don't know. 294 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:54,920 They don't know what's going on in my brain. 295 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:56,400 They don't know what I'm capable of. 296 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,480 I'm not going to listen to them. And and it's also like one of 297 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,520 the better pieces of advice that I think I've just cultivated in 298 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,680 my own mind is don't ever take the advice of someone who hasn't 299 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:09,600 done what you're doing right. I can't guarantee those people 300 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:11,840 at a podcast, right? None of those people in a 301 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:12,440 pocket. Like what? 302 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:14,200 Why would I care about your opinion? 303 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,400 Yeah, and yeah, you're right. You're what I'd like to see. 304 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,440 I'd like to tell people that the best part of your opinion is the 305 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:22,960 fact that your opinion does not count. 306 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:24,680 That is the best part of your opinion. 307 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:27,880 I like that, no. That's good, right? 308 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,440 It, it's crazy. You know what? 309 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:31,960 You just reminded me of something. 310 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:37,600 I saw something on LinkedIn yesterday and it sort of baffled 311 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,840 me. I think this person is an XC 312 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,800 suite executive and they must probably be in there in their 313 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:50,040 50s or 60s. And this guy dropped a post that 314 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:55,440 he's been job hunting for the past nine months and that, oh, 315 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,200 he, he's done really, really high profile, you know, jobs, 316 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,640 high profile organizations, international organizations, 317 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,920 being it being called CEO and, you know, for certain 318 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,840 organizations. And, you know, he's unhappy. 319 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:15,040 He's unable to get a job for the past nine months. 320 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,720 And my head, I'm like, what happened to entrepreneurship? 321 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:24,400 Why are certain people so conditioned in their minds that 322 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:30,280 you have to be on the bygone that was greeted by another 323 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,320 person? Right, right. 324 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:32,640 Yeah. Why? 325 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,720 Don't you create something for yourself with so much experience 326 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,560 and expertise? Yeah, You know, I, I don't know, 327 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:43,520 I think probably a lot of it is how you're raised, you know, and 328 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,560 I mean, education's a big part of it. 329 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:52,120 I think most people are told get a good education, get a good 330 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:56,880 job, go on to management, try to move up the corporate ladder. 331 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,600 And I had no interest in doing any of that. 332 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:04,560 Like I saw those people that were 50 and 60 and had worked 333 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:06,880 their asses off for these companies and then all of a 334 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,599 sudden they're gone and they can't get another job right or 335 00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:13,040 whatever. And I remember thinking, I do 336 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,400 not want to be that person. I don't want to be that person 337 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:21,400 who's 5560, you know, maybe 10 years away from retirement, 338 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:22,760 can't get another job or whatever. 339 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:25,839 I had no interest in doing that. And then it was a matter of, OK, 340 00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:30,720 how, how do I make it happen? And so when I saw that market 341 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,360 opportunity, I took it. But I think you know, you're 342 00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:36,600 either working on your dream or you're you're working to help 343 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:38,000 someone else achieve their dream. 344 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,280 Right. For me, I was like, I know how 345 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,160 it our work. I know how talented I I was and 346 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:45,440 AM and the things that I'm good at. 347 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:47,520 I'm not great at everything, but some things I'm very good at. 348 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,920 And I was like, I rather, you know, see the rewards of that. 349 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:52,520 I don't mean you were talking about reaping. 350 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,520 You reap what you sow I'd rather reap those rewards that I've 351 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,880 sowed and not someone else reap those rewards. 352 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,080 And there's a trade off to that. Of course, it's hard, you know, 353 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,320 there's a lot of challenges of running a company, but it's 354 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,920 absolutely worth it. And it's really comes down to 355 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,600 knowing yourself and your own personality, right? 356 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,880 That some people, they want a place to be, go somewhere and be 357 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:16,800 told what to do every day. And there's nothing wrong with 358 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,400 that. That's not me, it's not you. 359 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,480 But there are people like that. I think they're crazy 360 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,040 personally, but hey, to each their own. 361 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:26,400 And I don't know how they were raised. 362 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,400 I don't know anything about them. 363 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,440 And and that's also like why I don't take people's opinions 364 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,320 like you were talking about, like they don't know me. 365 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:35,800 I don't know them, they don't know me. 366 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:37,520 You go, do you? I'm not going to worry about 367 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,880 you. But yeah, I think it's a lot of 368 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,560 it's conditioning, a lot of it's people being told that's the 369 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:47,200 safe route and they believe it. And for me, it just, I don't 370 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:48,040 know. I've always been kind of 371 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,920 rebellious and contrarian, but I had no interest in doing that. 372 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,720 The interesting part is that they also think you're crazy. 373 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:01,520 So yeah, right is crazy. Yeah, well, I think we're all 374 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,960 crazy, everyone. We're just now we're human 375 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:06,880 beings. We're just totally flawed 376 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,200 running around. We're all trying to figure it 377 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,320 out. And you're on this, you know, 378 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,240 plan it for such a short period of time. 379 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,800 It's like, why not go after your dreams? 380 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,720 Why not see what you're capable of? 381 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:19,520 You know, it's like I talk about my book. 382 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,480 There's the whole Maslow hierarchy of needs right in the 383 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,240 top of the pyramid. It's self actualization. 384 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:29,480 Like it's innate us to want to know what we can actually 385 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,400 achieve. If you're at a corporate 386 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,040 America, you don't know that you're not going to get every 387 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,560 opportunity you want to be. There's only one person is going 388 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,200 to be the CEO who's going to be at the top of that pyramid. 389 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,480 And you know, you a lot of times you don't know what you're 390 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,400 capable of when you're when you're an entrepreneur, you find 391 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:52,400 out what you're capable. Of real quick you. 392 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:54,920 Know, like all of a sudden, you know, you thought a podcast two 393 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,680 years ago, now you're in the top 3%, right? 394 00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:59,920 So you're finding out. You're finding out. 395 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,320 You find it out like and I like that song. 396 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,520 If you are what you see you are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 397 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,760 Like I love that song. Like if you are what you say you 398 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,000 are, Yeah. That that. 399 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,840 Yeah. Entrepreneurship is Oh yeah, 400 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:18,680 prove. It that's yeah, prove it. 401 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:20,720 Because Oh yeah, prove a job there is. 402 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:25,280 Because the market, the market speaks man, you know the market 403 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,240 always wins. Yeah. 404 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,560 And of course, speaking to what you say about the market speaks 405 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,840 I when I advise people, especially upcoming 406 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:37,920 entrepreneurs like myself, I tell them you don't sell what 407 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,040 you want to sell, you sell what the market wants to buy. 408 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:44,400 It's simple. Market forces demand and supply, 409 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:46,680 right? I've been sales my whole my 410 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,200 whole career. You I never sold anyone 411 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,360 anything. You know, I always understood 412 00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:54,760 what they were trying to accomplish and then figure out 413 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,200 whatever I could do to help them, you know, whatever 414 00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:58,960 products I had, whatever services I had. 415 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,840 But you're not going to like if someone doesn't want, you know, 416 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,640 a Droid phone over an iPhone, you're not going to convince 417 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,800 them or it's very unlikely or it's not worth the effort. 418 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:13,600 It's better to understand that person, their situation and and 419 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,960 then try position whatever you have to help them that that's 420 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,000 all sales is and and same with the market, right? 421 00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:22,920 You're either increasing pleasure or you're decreasing 422 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:24,680 pain. That's what every product is. 423 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:26,440 It really is. It's that simple. 424 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:31,000 So go find people's pains and decrease them and in problems 425 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,520 and solve them, and you'll find what they like doing and enhance 426 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,360 that experience and you'll still sell. 427 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,560 Yeah, exactly. You know, you need to speak to 428 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:43,480 people's pain points, right? And somehow lengths in 429 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:47,800 economics, you know, from first degree this money is a store 430 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,920 value. And if money is a store value, 431 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:56,040 it means people will give it to people who offer them perceived 432 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,400 value. Yeah. 433 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:05,960 So as long as you master the art of creating value, you will 434 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,840 definitely get money. And you know, people don't like 435 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:13,560 to be sold to. People like to buy to meet their 436 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,280 needs 100. Percent. 437 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,400 Right. So if you are telling somebody 438 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,520 what they don't want or they don't need, they sticky like 439 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,240 why, why are you pushing it? You're you're pushing your lock. 440 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:27,680 Yeah. No, that's exactly right. 441 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:29,720 That's it. That probably is, yeah. 442 00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:35,360 But you know, you actually build control like without, you know, 443 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:40,520 the whole experience in tech, right? 444 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:47,640 And leadership actually, you know, comes or would I say 445 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,720 improves over time with experience, right? 446 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,680 And of course you, you never had managed anyone before finding 447 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,840 that company. So what were like some of the 448 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,640 hottest leadership? Yeah, you know, I think. 449 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,720 Since you learned, you know, yeah, you know, trial and error. 450 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:05,840 Yeah, yeah, a lot of trial and error for sure. 451 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,440 I mean, a lot of it in the beginning was, you know, I'd 452 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,520 never manage anyone. We grew really fast. 453 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:12,360 I had 10 employees by the end of year 1. 454 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,840 And I don't know, because I didn't have a lot of experience 455 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,720 managing people. I just always thought people 456 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,320 were like me and I worked a lot. I was hard. 457 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,960 I was hard. Yeah, I, I was a hard worker. 458 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,760 I took things very serious. I had attention to detail. 459 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,280 And I remember a couple people that came in early and they were 460 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,240 not like that. And I would bark at them. 461 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,680 I'd be like, what are you doing? Yeah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 462 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:37,920 You got to do this, that and whatever. 463 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,640 And I'm like. And then I remember meeting with 464 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,000 my mentor and I was like, you know, I feel like I don't even 465 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:45,800 want to hire people because I can just do it better. 466 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,000 And he was like, of course you can do it better. 467 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,960 But and you're going to care more about your business, but 468 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,080 you have to figure out the stuff that you're not any good at and 469 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,720 then outsource it to those folks and then let them be, let them 470 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,120 figure out they're not going to be like you. 471 00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:58,960 And that's OK because there's probably a lot of things you 472 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,840 were not good at either. So I think the biggest thing was 473 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:09,520 trying to hire for need and realized that I had to give them 474 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,160 autonomy and that's what I wanted to write. 475 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,120 I the the best bosses I ever had were kind of let me do my own 476 00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:17,280 thing. But I think it was the, the, the 477 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,400 error in the beginning was trying to fit them to do things 478 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,080 like I did things versus how they did things. 479 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,200 And then how I got better at it was just, you know, a finding 480 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,680 really good talent that helps because then I don't worry about 481 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:31,880 telling them what to do because they already know what to do. 482 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,280 So I always kind of found a plus talent paid them well versus 483 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,960 trying to coach up people. I was found people experience. 484 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:40,800 That was something that worked for me. 485 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,320 And, you know, just really trying to see it from their 486 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,960 perspective, you know, not being so reactive, trying to listen 487 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,080 more instead of talking. That was a lot of the things I 488 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,480 learned with with folks and and giving them space and, you know, 489 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,040 giving them opportunity. So that those are the big things 490 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,520 is just, you know, not forcing them to do things the way I 491 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,440 wanted them done. Let them figure it out on their 492 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,320 own, but measure the results more than the process. 493 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,200 I love the way you talk about hiring A+ talent, but there's 494 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:14,280 something that I like to say, and I think I said this on the 495 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:19,360 podcast before, it's gonna have talent, right? 496 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:25,520 But hard work beats talent when talent does not work hard. 100% 497 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,720 and. I have a problem with when I 498 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:33,680 say, coping with or trying to teach people the right attitude. 499 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,840 I don't know, I'm a young entrepreneur myself, right? 500 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:43,880 But I think it's quite difficult or maybe almost impossible 501 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,720 teaching people the right attitude, right? 502 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,560 Because how do you teach a person to be hungry? 503 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,280 How do you teach a person to be determined? 504 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,760 How do you teach a person to be ambitious? 505 00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:00,440 How do you teach a person to go above and beyond, right? 506 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,840 You can give a person a task, right? 507 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,720 Give them a deadline and they might come to you and just to 508 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,040 trust enough, right? How do you teach them the fact 509 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:16,520 that you need to consciously, actively find ways to become 510 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,560 more efficient at whatever it is that you do? 511 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:25,600 How do you teach them that you have to be innovative, right? 512 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:31,600 And, you know, keep up with current trends, right? 513 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,960 And of course, you know, in the tech industry, you can attest 514 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,920 this. Sometimes you you're working on 515 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,480 a particular research and another company has done that 516 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,360 research and has put that product in the market. 517 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,040 And whatever you're working on becomes sort of obsolete. 518 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,760 And you need to probably have an add on to that service or that 519 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,040 product line in order to make it relevant, right? 520 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,400 How do you teach people attitude? 521 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,640 For me, yeah, I think I struggle with that, but I'd like to. 522 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,240 Yeah, I don't. I don't know that you do. 523 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,800 I mean, I think you struggle with it because I don't know 524 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,760 that you do. I think it's more about finding 525 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,320 people that already have it and that is in your interview 526 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,920 process. You know, I mean, we used to 527 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,720 have a saying that if we have to manage you, we're going to 528 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,840 manage you out of the organization, Meaning you want 529 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,360 to find leaders, right? You want to find people with 530 00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:21,680 that hunger. You want to find people with 531 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,400 that determination and that grid. 532 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,960 And I don't know that is something that you can teach 533 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,040 them you they can observe someone doing it. 534 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,960 But when you're in a company, especially like ours is a, you 535 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,400 know, fast growing tech company, we didn't have a lot of time to 536 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,840 be teaching people. We, we needed people that 537 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,480 already knew and bring them in and then give them opportunity. 538 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,280 But I've, I'll tell you one thing that just made me think of 539 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:49,200 that is, you know, I, the company that I was from EMC and 540 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,640 I know a lot of companies and, and the tech space do this is 541 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,400 they would look and I did one of your other guests talk about 542 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,280 this the the Flickr guy or clicker, Sorry, I can't remember 543 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,600 the name of his company. Sun Tepper a tiker. 544 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,480 Yeah, yeah. But he thought about this. 545 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,080 But it's about athletes, you know, finding athletes and a lot 546 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,680 of athletes and have a lot of those attributes already. 547 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,440 So like one of my first questions, when I was being 548 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,600 recruited to go work for this company called EMC, they were 549 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,640 like, what high school sports did you play? 550 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:18,920 I was like, I was not expecting that. 551 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,680 You know, I was like, huh. And and I did play high school 552 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,040 sports. So I talked about that. 553 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:28,640 And but it's because those people that played those sports, 554 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:33,560 they usually are hungry, they are competitive, They have a lot 555 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:38,120 of that attitude, you know, properties that you want, right. 556 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:42,480 And those things get, do get instilled as a kid through 557 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,880 sports. So it is kind of a little bit of 558 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,840 a hack to say, do you have some of these things? 559 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,480 Not everyone probably played sports has those things. 560 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,240 But I talked about it in my book. 561 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,520 I would ask, how competitive are you? 562 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,560 That was one of my favorite question. 563 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,480 And if they would smile before they even were saying anything, 564 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,320 I knew I was going to hire them because they're like, Oh yeah. 565 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,840 So are you going to hire me now? Because I was smiling when 566 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,240 you're saying that. Now, but like some people like 567 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:15,440 get scared. They're like, oh. 568 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,520 Shit, how do I? Start writing for my language. 569 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,320 But Oh no, how do I answer this versus if they are competitive, 570 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,840 they're like, all right, let's go, you know, and, and most 571 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,520 people are competitive, obviously at least anyone's 572 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,560 achieved anything in their life. But that that was a good hack to 573 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,280 finding those that are already like have that attitude versus, 574 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,320 like you said, teaching them. I don't know how you teach them. 575 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,720 I mean, I would tell them to go read a bunch of books that 576 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,800 helped me along my way. And you know, there's a bunch of 577 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,640 podcasts are things you can do, but you've got to, you know, I, 578 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,720 I'm not going to hire someone that I have to teach attitude. 579 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:54,640 They better have it. And you know, the sad part is 580 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:59,160 this right before I get to the sad part, I've tried that 581 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,960 approach, you know, even that certain book, certain materials, 582 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,440 okay, go read this or read that. They don't add really anything. 583 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,240 Wait. Yeah. 584 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,120 No, no, totally. It's like you wish your tag. 585 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:17,040 Yeah, no, unless, no, it's kind of funny because I, I actually 586 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,720 forced my my new employees to read one book. 587 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,640 There was one book I forced them to read and I just did it with 588 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,560 my daughter too. And she was like, I don't, you 589 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,720 know, she's going to college. She didn't really want to read 590 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,440 this book. I'm like, well, if you don't 591 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,600 read it, I'm not paying for tuition, so you better read the 592 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,120 damn book. But it is, you know, it's 593 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:36,600 whatever. It's how to win friends and 594 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,240 influence people. It's my favorite book and and 595 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,760 that. Was a great that was the first 596 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,920 book I bought with my own money. Really. 597 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,120 Oh yeah, Dale Carnegie. That's my favorite book of all 598 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,160 time. And the art of public speaking, 599 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,320 Yeah. Yeah, I have both of those. 600 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,000 I actually have like I can pull it up at some point. 601 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,200 It's over there, but I've got like a fourth edition copy of 602 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,120 that book like from the sitting on my desk right over there. 603 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,760 But I love that book. And but anyways, that is a when 604 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,840 you own your own company, you can force them to do some 605 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,120 things. And that was the one that was 606 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,800 the one book I would, and this is for younger employees. 607 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,320 This wasn't like, you know, someone's coming and later in 608 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,000 the career. I'm not forcing anyone, but I 609 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,840 had a couple, we we did decide at some point to hire some kind 610 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,000 of junior engineers and and they didn't have the best people 611 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,040 skills. I could just tell. 612 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:27,480 And I'm like, you got to read this book. 613 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,760 So and they all, you know, I don't know if they're be asking 614 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,440 me, but they all seem to say like, hey, thank you for making 615 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:33,640 that. That actually was helpful. 616 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:34,960 I get it, you know, da, da, da, da. 617 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,520 So. But anyways, yeah, so you're 618 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,920 right not as they won't read it. And it's, it's not like you're 619 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,240 wasting your time. So I'll figure something out. 620 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,400 I'll figure something out. But you know, the sad part is, 621 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,160 you know, when you have those ones, you know, with the right 622 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,080 attitude and with the right talent, the turnover is very 623 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:54,960 high. The need for better 624 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,320 opportunities is very fast. How, how? 625 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,000 How do you do? Well, you have, well, you know, 626 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,480 we actually did a pretty good job of keeping our talent. 627 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,160 I mean, a, an easy way to do is pay him more than the market's 628 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,000 paying. That's one of the things that I 629 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,320 did. I was like, you know, I I would 630 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:16,280 rather hire less people and pay them more than the opposite. 631 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,280 So, you know, a lot of people in the running business, they want 632 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,200 to say, Oh, I have this many hundreds employees. 633 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:22,880 Like I didn't care. I'm like, I want to keep it as 634 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,280 small as possible, but I want to really, really good people. 635 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,920 So I would poach people from like sometimes our customers and 636 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,320 you know, they'd be making, I'll just, you know, say some rough 637 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,560 numbers making $100,000 to some corporate job. 638 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:38,320 I'd say I'm going to pay you 130. 639 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,760 And you know, they would come in and they would get other 640 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:43,920 benefits and I would like, hey, I don't care. 641 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:48,040 I'll pay above market rate because we were moving fast. 642 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,000 We needed experts. I, I knew when I found the right 643 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:52,360 people, I was willing to pay them. 644 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,440 So that helps, you know, we didn't lose a lot of people. 645 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,960 We would then give them structures and incentives that 646 00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:02,080 were aligned with the company goals for them to make more 647 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,760 money to no matter what their role was. 648 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,400 But yeah, you know, you're always going to have people 649 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,680 poaching talent. But if you give them upside 650 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,480 like, you know, stock options, things of that nature, when 651 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,720 you're an entrepreneur, you can give them, there's creative 652 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,640 things you can do being the boss and being entrepreneur to kind 653 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:22,760 of keep people around. Yeah, I feel like that equity 654 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,960 stake actually has a big way of motivating people. 655 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,560 Yeah, the golden handcuffs. Correct. 656 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,640 The golden handcuffs. Yeah. 657 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,240 That that's that's a treat. That's a very, very fantastic 658 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,480 trick around keeping these people. 659 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,160 So. But then, you know, you had zero 660 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:44,200 accounting background and you educated yourself and worked 661 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,160 with accountants. So what's the most important 662 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:51,080 financial principle you think every founder should master Very 663 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,880 early? Yeah, you know, I that was the 664 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,720 thing I was more intimidated by when I started my company is 665 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,320 because, you know, I did like my family personal accounting and I 666 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,720 talked about this in my book too, but it's like I, I was 667 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:05,240 like, man, I don't know anything about accountants. 668 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,960 I, you know, accounting. I don't, I've never, you know, 669 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:10,840 done a general Ledger or anything. 670 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:15,040 So I read a ton of books. All of them are kind of boring, 671 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:19,719 you know, but I like accounting one O 1 books and then and you 672 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,560 know, I talked about it. I, I really recommend people 673 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,440 outsource that function. I know that's something that you 674 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,280 do right? You're a fractional CFL, but for 675 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,000 real. Bring them my way. 676 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:31,719 My company would do that. It's. 677 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,719 Great. Well, that's actually my advice 678 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,280 in the book is get a fractional CFO. 679 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,639 And if you don't know it, like I didn't know, I didn't care to 680 00:34:39,639 --> 00:34:41,840 know it. I wanted to know it to be 681 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,679 informed and to have good dialogue, but like I didn't want 682 00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:48,000 to be an accountant at all. And it was like one of my 683 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:52,120 weaknesses. And so I hired a a fractional 684 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,080 CFO outsource, you know, small consulting company. 685 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,400 The guy was amazing. He taught me a ton. 686 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,680 And then I would say, you know, you got to understand the P and 687 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:02,640 LS. The biggest thing, you know, in 688 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,120 my opinion, for a young entrepreneur and and keep costs 689 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,240 down and you know, it's not necessarily an accounting 690 00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:08,760 principle. What? 691 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,680 I would just keep costs down solo. 692 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,200 You know, I didn't take a salary myself. 693 00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:17,960 I didn't bring out a full time kind of W2 employee until like 8 694 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,280 months in and I was just paying people's contractors. 695 00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:24,440 You know, I waited too long to hire people, but it helped me 696 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,200 sleep at night. And then at the end, especially 697 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,640 if you're looking to sell your company, you really got to 698 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,760 understand GAP principles. That was not something I 699 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,920 understood. I learned real quick, you know, 700 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,320 I went through the cold quality of earnings thing with selling 701 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,760 the company and it's a bunch of really smart accountants in the 702 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,960 room and I'm like, I'm just going to shut up and let my 703 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,280 fractional CFO do his work. But you know, I, I would say 704 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,960 this with accounting, for those of you out there listening that 705 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,160 are like me and didn't have a lot of accounting experience, 706 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,600 it's scary. Like accounting and law. 707 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,960 Those are two of the scarier things with selling, with 708 00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:00,000 running a company. Outsource them, you know, and 709 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,560 you'll figure it out. It's not that complicated. 710 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,160 It's just like a different language, you know, you got to 711 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,600 learn, learn how it works. But really at the end of the 712 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:09,880 day, a business really just money coming in, money going 713 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,440 out. So it's not that more 714 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:16,600 complicated. And so just making sure that you 715 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,880 can control what you can control in the beginning, that's money 716 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,280 going out. You can control how much money 717 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:22,360 is going out in the organization. 718 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,160 You can't always control how much is coming in. 719 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,960 So that's what I would say from accounting principles 720 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,040 perspective. Why you just said I'm gonna 721 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,400 summarize it. Revenue is vanity, profit is 722 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,880 sanity, and cash is king, if you wish. 723 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,840 Cash is reality. You know, profit says that 724 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,440 you're winning in the game of business. 725 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,560 That's right. And cash flows determines how 726 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,960 long you can stay the business. That's right. 727 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,880 So make with that information whatever you wish to make with 728 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,760 it. So you're actually successfully 729 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,920 transitioned, you know, from project based services to 730 00:36:59,240 --> 00:37:02,280 subscription model. I love subscription model 731 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,480 revenue a lot though. And of course you use Caraca to 732 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,400 the growth. So can you walk us through how 733 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,560 that came about and what was the impact? 734 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:14,680 Yeah. You know, I think it was like 735 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,920 year 4 or five. I was, you know, we've gotten a 736 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:23,360 lot of interest from companies investing in US and even 737 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:25,400 potentially purchasing the company. 738 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:31,080 And I, you know, was trying to understand that whole game, 739 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,120 right? Like if you sell the company and 740 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:37,120 I really learned a lot about you know, so any Long story short, I 741 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,440 made the Inc 5000, my company makes the Inc 5000. 742 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,800 I talked to a couple private equity companies and venture 743 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,880 capitalists and they all were really honing in on the amount 744 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:46,960 of recurring revenue that we had. 745 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,240 And I had a decent sense of it, but a lot of our stuff was 746 00:37:50,240 --> 00:37:52,360 products. So like an example, you know, a 747 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,960 customer has a new software system that in their environment 748 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,640 they want us to configure out, we'd say, hey, it's $15,000, we 749 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,240 go in there, we get it done in a week and then we're gone. 750 00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:05,240 And then they pay us and then maybe they'll call us later on 751 00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:08,120 if they have problems or we would try to outsell them other 752 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:09,800 stuff. But that's, that's it, right? 753 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,720 It's one and done versus when I learned more about the 754 00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:16,080 reoccurring revenue subscription model, I was like, you know, a, 755 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:20,360 not only does it make it you more valuable from a, you know, 756 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,600 selling the company, but it makes you a lot more valuable to 757 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,640 the customer if you've got something that you can annually 758 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,760 provide to them. So I just sat down and thought 759 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,840 through, OK, how can I actually turn these projects and these 760 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,240 other things that we were doing into, you know, annual 761 00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:38,240 contracts? So I kind of made it a no 762 00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:41,960 brainer in the beginning and just said, look, you know, that 763 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,520 same customer, right, $15,000. I'd say, look, we're going to 764 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,440 give you a managed service for the same price, $15,000. 765 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,480 We're going to come in, we're going to do the install and then 766 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,680 for the next 10 months, you're going to have support from us 767 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:55,440 and we're going to get in the environment. 768 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,680 We're going to proactively take care of the software. 769 00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,560 And you know, they'd be like, what's the catch? 770 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,040 You know, do I got to sign up for multiple years? 771 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:03,520 I'm like, Nope, there's no catch. 772 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:07,480 I just I'm that confident that you want to re up on the service 773 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:09,960 in a year from now and it's the same price. 774 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,960 You get, you know, option A is you get work for us for two 775 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,600 weeks and we're gone. Option B is you get to our first 776 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,880 of the whole year. And you know, we were taking 777 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,240 some risks doing that. And like me and you talk before 778 00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:22,320 we jump on, sometimes you got to do stuff for free. 779 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,760 And I would say like 95% of the customers would sign up for it. 780 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:28,920 They're like, yeah, that sounds like a no brainer. 781 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:34,240 And then 75% of those customers in year 2 would re up because we 782 00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:36,120 would go above and beyond for these customers. 783 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,680 We would take care of stuff. We got to know them. 784 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,800 We're in their environment doing stuff and they were like, you 785 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:43,680 know what, I don't want to deal with this crap anymore. 786 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:44,880 I'll let you guys deal with that. 787 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,160 And then it was just like stacking those customers up. 788 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,560 And then instead of, you know, January 1, we're going, what the 789 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:52,800 hell are we going to sell this year? 790 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,160 Now we're like, hey, we already got twenty of those customers. 791 00:39:56,240 --> 00:39:59,000 All we got to do is keep them and then add them. 792 00:39:59,240 --> 00:40:01,280 And we can still do those projects if we want to. 793 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,160 We could do other things. So, you know, for me it was 794 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,440 like, this is a no brainer. Why did I not do this sooner? 795 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,880 And it all started with, I read a book called Built to Sell by 796 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,600 John Warlow and he talked a lot about it and that, and that was 797 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,560 more about, hey, this is how you make your, your company more 798 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,080 valuable. But I was like, man, I, this is 799 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:20,680 making the company easier to run. 800 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,240 So anyways, that's why we did it and it worked. 801 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,600 By the time we sold the company about two years later for the 802 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:31,520 first time, about 75% of our revenue was recurring versus 40% 803 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,800 two years prior. So which gave us a great 804 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:36,640 multiple on the on the actual sale. 805 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,840 You know it it, it's beautiful when you have that recurrent 806 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,600 revenue, especially by way of a subscription model about, you 807 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,440 know, in terms of scaling up right? 808 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,840 It, it, it makes it easier as well, right, because you have 809 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:59,120 that multiplier effect course having multiple customers that 810 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,440 you can service at the same time, right. 811 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,520 And of course, you're keeping up cost as low as possible, but 812 00:41:06,240 --> 00:41:09,840 another strategy that a lot of consulting or service 813 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,520 professional services that companies or firms use is 814 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:17,600 upselling. So were you guys able to upsell 815 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,840 any of your, would I say food or? 816 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,880 Other service, yeah, because we have software products too. 817 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,560 Yeah, I mean, the beauty of it is when you have a recurring 818 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:30,360 model and this was more of a managed service, right? 819 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,400 This was a service. We actually had a software 820 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:36,760 product that we did as well. So we, we would use that managed 821 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:38,000 service. That's usually how we would get 822 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,880 introduced was through this managed service. 823 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,440 And it was around technologies like Microsoft and, and other, 824 00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,840 other companies. And we would get in there and 825 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:49,760 they're thinking there's going to sign up for a project with 826 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:50,640 us. They actually sign up for a 827 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:52,880 man's service. And then, you know, my team 828 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,680 would get to know them, you know, and in this space, we're 829 00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,880 taking care of a software that is associated with like, you 830 00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:04,000 know, legal services and, and these lawsuits. 831 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:09,000 So when then three months later a big lawsuit hits, we're 832 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:10,800 already managing the software for them. 833 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,600 They have a relationship with the, with my, with my, my 834 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,560 engineer. And they'd say, oh man, I got to 835 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,680 be all weekend doing these searches, running this for the 836 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,440 lawyers. He would say, you know, we do 837 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:24,840 that as well. And they'd say, oh really? 838 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,600 So then that was another service line that we had that that was, 839 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,160 you know, they could work with our team and we had lawyers and 840 00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:32,920 they could actually go in and do the searches. 841 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,000 And then we would understand about the type of litigation 842 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,200 they would have in the industry that they were in. 843 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,840 And then we had our own software that we built to help them 844 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,400 manage their data proactively. So the next time that this 845 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,800 happens, we can help them as well. 846 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,520 So it was it all kind of started with that one. 847 00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:52,520 And then there was all these add on services that we could do and 848 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:54,960 some of them were projects, some of them were software 849 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,880 subscriptions, you know with the software subscriptions recurring 850 00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,400 revenue as well. And it was just it just built, 851 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:04,120 you know. So now we've got you know, 4050 852 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,440 of these customers 50 to 100 and that's why our revenue kept 853 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,520 going up. And then we could manage our 854 00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:13,720 expenses a lot easier because we knew, OK, going into the year, 855 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:17,520 we're going to have 5 million bucks of this recurring revenue, 856 00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,160 OK? You know, we had really good 857 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,680 metrics on how much work we were actually doing for those 858 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:26,080 customers, the profitability. And we're like, OK, we don't 859 00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:27,520 even need to hire that many more people. 860 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,000 We can just tweak some of our, you know, tweaks how we're doing 861 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:32,480 things. And then profitability starts 862 00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,680 going up and you're like, that's when things get exciting. 863 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,000 You're like, OK, now the flywheel spinning. 864 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:43,400 Yeah, the flywheel, it's very important to be able to like 865 00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:47,320 recognize the the different elements or the components or 866 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,600 the flywheel and of course the activates, you know that engine 867 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:55,840 at the middle and of course it's just like an automated system. 868 00:43:56,080 --> 00:44:02,960 I love the SAS system, right? The SAS easiness model, you 869 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,960 know, pretty much like the the flagwheel. 870 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:11,520 But one thing that comes with that fast growth is possible 871 00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,920 burnout. Right now it can be quite 872 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:18,440 exhausting. So how did methods like 873 00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:22,160 meditation therapy help you avoid burnout? 874 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,120 I'm like what? What's your advice, you know, to 875 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,880 young founders like myself, you know, about managing residents 876 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,320 and I'm I'm quite that exhaustion. 877 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:33,600 Yeah, I mean, I'm quite passionate about this particular 878 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,400 subject. I, you know, it was like year 2 879 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,720 or year three of the company and, and everything was going 880 00:44:38,720 --> 00:44:40,480 well, right? We're having a lot of success, 881 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:45,760 but I'm working a lot. I typically am working like 14 882 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:50,120 hour days, you know, and I'm not sleeping a ton because I've got 883 00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,560 to get, I got to stay up late and I got to get up early and 884 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:55,760 you know, things are going, I'm hiring all these people feel 885 00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,800 like we're having a lot of success, but I felt like really 886 00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:01,920 low energy. I wouldn't say depressed was the 887 00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,000 right word, but just kind of blah. 888 00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,200 And I'm like, man, I got to, I got to do something like I'm 889 00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,120 just constantly kind of running out of energy and I was still 890 00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,960 pretty young and eating well for the most part and exercising. 891 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,520 And it was like year three of the company I met with my same 892 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,040 mentor. I kind of talked about and I'm 893 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,080 like, man, I, I don't know if I can keep doing this. 894 00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,200 Like this is a lot. He's like, you don't want to 895 00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,160 quit. You're tired and you need a 896 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,480 break. And he's like, you need to go on 897 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,160 vacation And every vacation I take in a couple years prior, I 898 00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,680 wasn't really, I was working on the vacation. 899 00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:34,840 My kids were on vacation, my wife's on vacation, but I'm 900 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,840 working. So I was like, I don't care. 901 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,040 I'll burn the house down. I'm going on vacation. 902 00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,400 I'm shutting off my e-mail. I'm shutting off everything. 903 00:45:42,720 --> 00:45:44,480 And I've heard a lot of entrepreneurs talk about 904 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,960 meditation and specifically transdental meditation. 905 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:52,240 And I tried it like the whole lie down on the floor thing. 906 00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:54,400 And I'm like, I, this is not working for me. 907 00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:58,680 And, and I was like, you know, I just, my brains racing and I'm 908 00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:01,160 not calm at all while I'm meditating these things. 909 00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,200 And I, I read something that you've got to, you got to give 910 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,000 it a week. You've got to do it every single 911 00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,280 day for a week, right? For like 10 minutes, whatever. 912 00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,800 So I'm going on vacation. I'm like, here's a perfect 913 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,080 opportunity. I would lie down. 914 00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:16,080 I would like to listen to guided meditation. 915 00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,880 And, you know, it still wasn't great. 916 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:21,800 It was like, you know, you're walking in a forest. 917 00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,880 I'm like, OK, it's fine. But it was it, I did feel after 918 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,160 day three like I'm becoming a little bit more relaxed and 919 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:29,920 focused. And then by the end of that 920 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,920 vacation, we, you know, we full week of it, I'm like, God, I 921 00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:34,200 feel good. I feel energized. 922 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,880 Obviously being on vacation was part of it too and being around 923 00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:38,520 my family, but I felt really, really good. 924 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,720 And I was like, all right, I kept doing that, but then I 925 00:46:41,720 --> 00:46:42,960 wanted to take it to the next level. 926 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,960 So I learned transit lamentation and doing it for 10 years now 927 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,280 every day, first thing I do, I wake up 20 minutes. 928 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,600 I'll probably do it right after this podcast around 3:00 in the 929 00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:55,200 afternoon. I do it and it's a mantra based, 930 00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:59,240 you know, meditation and more than anything, it's not like a 931 00:46:59,240 --> 00:47:00,280 lot of people think of meditation. 932 00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:04,600 They think, you know, oh, I'm going to be like my, my brains 933 00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,760 going to be empty and I'm like levitating and like, no, that's 934 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:11,040 not what it for me. It was getting me. 935 00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:13,800 It was getting me in touch with what was going on with myself, 936 00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:15,880 right. So like you're dealing with a 937 00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,280 lot when you're running a business and for me, I'm dealing 938 00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:20,840 with a hundred, a hundred different things. 939 00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,960 So sometimes I'd be bothered and I would close my mind and I 940 00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:29,000 meditate and it you real quickly get in touch with yourself, 941 00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:30,960 right? You're like my brain be going, 942 00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:32,640 oh, I can't believe that employee did this. 943 00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:34,480 You know, what a jerk, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, 944 00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:35,800 blah. And I'm like, OK, this is what's 945 00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,320 bothering me and now I need to go address it. 946 00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,080 So that's what really helped with me. 947 00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,000 And then I, it would just give me like energy. 948 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,960 Like I would, I'd be tired by around 3:00. 949 00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:48,920 I would meditate. It was like the equivalent of 950 00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:50,760 taking a nap. You know, you take a good nap, 951 00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:52,440 you feel good, you feel refreshed. 952 00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:54,600 And then I'm like, oh, I feel good now. 953 00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,360 And now I can be a better husband when I go home. 954 00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:01,520 I've got a couple more hours in me with my team and then I can 955 00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:03,360 have the energy for later on at night. 956 00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,200 But meditation is a huge thing, you know, sleeping. 957 00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:09,520 I learned to probably, you know, year 4, I really need to start 958 00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:12,160 focusing on my sleep. That is a much better. 959 00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,960 Yeah. But burnout, you know, vacation 960 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,200 scheduling time with friends and family. 961 00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:22,800 Like it's easy to non-stop work and I started scheduling blocks 962 00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,640 of time like 3 hours every night with my family where I'm not 963 00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:27,640 working. I might think if I might be 964 00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,520 thinking of work every once in awhile, but like you need to do 965 00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:32,360 those things. And then mental therapist, I 966 00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:34,480 went and saw, I started seeing a mental therapist deal with the 967 00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:38,240 stresses of it and. Therapist, I'm really happy you 968 00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:40,560 talking about these and of course, you know, I, I guess 969 00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:42,160 this is the right time right now, right? 970 00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:46,680 Your episode, you are you are a fantastic guest. 971 00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:50,920 And of course your episode is the episode where we break the 972 00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:55,320 good news. We are now partnering with the 973 00:48:55,320 --> 00:49:02,000 world's number one therapy brand and that is better health. 974 00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,680 So what a great time. That's awesome, man. 975 00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:07,520 Congratulations, partner with us. 976 00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,480 So Better Help is not officially a sponsor of the Key Dips 977 00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:12,760 podcast. And of course, what a way to say 978 00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:15,080 we into you talking about mental therapy. 979 00:49:15,240 --> 00:49:17,440 Yeah, I mean, and I would say, you know, and the nice thing 980 00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:20,400 about Better Health, as you know, is, is it's an online 981 00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,840 mental health program, people traveling, etcetera. 982 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,920 I personally have been seeing, you know, a therapist since 983 00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:28,840 before the online thing even existed. 984 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:34,160 But it's great, right. And, you know, I think sometimes 985 00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:38,280 entrepreneurs probably put too much on their spouse to kind of 986 00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:40,440 be like their therapist, like they come. 987 00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,880 Home and untrained, Untrained therapist. 988 00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:45,600 Right. And you know, they might be 989 00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:47,160 having a bad day. They might be dealing with like 990 00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:48,920 my situation, my wife's, the old little kids. 991 00:49:49,240 --> 00:49:52,360 And it was nice to be able to go talk to someone that doesn't 992 00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:57,200 know me, that's not judging me, that has is equipped to be able 993 00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:58,760 to deal with some of these things. 994 00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,600 And I joke like I used to just go and complain, you know, like 995 00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:03,160 sometimes I didn't really want to talk to anything. 996 00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:04,640 I just go and complain about my team. 997 00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:06,440 And then I would leave and I'm like, I feel better. 998 00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:07,760 Great. It's out of my system. 999 00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:10,160 So yeah, I'm a huge proponent of therapy. 1000 00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:13,920 Congrats on your your partnership with Better Health 1001 00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:16,680 and that'd be awesome routine. Thank you very much, brother. 1002 00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:21,760 And of course, you know, guys, if you least injure us, therapy 1003 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:25,280 is something that is very, very resourceful, very helpful for 1004 00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,560 you. I'd be grateful to have a better 1005 00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,680 help as a sponsor of the King Games broadcast. 1006 00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:38,280 And if you use the if you link that is betterhelp.com/king 1007 00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:43,600 Games, you will actually get a 10% discount on your first month 1008 00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:46,600 of therapy. Therapy is very helpful. 1009 00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:52,240 I cannot under emphasize the the importance of the help that 1010 00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:57,160 therapy actually does. You know, due to once a mental 1011 00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:58,960 health, I've only gone therapy myself. 1012 00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:03,880 I have used better help myself and of course, it is actually 1013 00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,120 very helpful. I don't I don't know what to 1014 00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:11,640 say, but really therapy. A lot of people, especially 1015 00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:18,360 where I come from, find it when I say difficult to have this 1016 00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,040 difficult conversations about mental health. 1017 00:51:21,720 --> 00:51:27,440 But if you can see a doctor right, for physical health, why 1018 00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:32,240 can't you see a trained practitioner for your mental 1019 00:51:32,240 --> 00:51:33,840 health? And a good thing about, you 1020 00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,600 know, better health is the fact that it's online. 1021 00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:38,680 You don't have to see the therapies face to face. 1022 00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:42,200 Yeah, it's, it's, I would look at it. 1023 00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:45,240 I would look at it as coaching too, right? 1024 00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:48,000 It's, it's not my experience with therapy. 1025 00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:52,200 Being an entrepreneur is not going and talking about all my 1026 00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:54,520 problems of childhood, right, or anything like that. 1027 00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:57,960 People see in movies. It was OK, here's what I'm 1028 00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:00,920 dealing with. You know, how can I balance work 1029 00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:04,320 life? How can I, you know, be a better 1030 00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,160 communicator? You know, like it's there's all 1031 00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:09,160 these different tools. And if you're listening this 1032 00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:12,320 podcast, reading books, you're already seeking that 1033 00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,480 information. This is someone that you can 1034 00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:19,840 have a personalized one-on-one mentorship and coach with you. 1035 00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,800 And you know, the nice thing about things like these online 1036 00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:25,440 tools is you could try a couple different ones, right? 1037 00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:29,680 You don't, you might not jive with the first person you meet, 1038 00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:31,600 which is harder to do in person, right? 1039 00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,400 Meet to drive, to meet all these people and figure all that out. 1040 00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,600 It's hard, but you can. From the comfort of your phone, 1041 00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:39,680 just just read the therapist right? 1042 00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,080 Yeah. And you know, but yeah, I did a 1043 00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:44,880 lot of online therapy during COVID because of course, because 1044 00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,280 I had to. And it's great, you know, it's 1045 00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:49,040 it's anyways. But yeah, I agree. 1046 00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:55,400 Thank you very much, brother. So, you know, talking about exit 1047 00:52:55,400 --> 00:53:00,040 strategies, by the way, I do have a particular episode on 1048 00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:03,640 exit strategies. And of course, the guy I spoke 1049 00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,800 with talked about that book to to sell. 1050 00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:11,160 So you told your company twice. What are the top two or three 1051 00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:15,880 things entrepreneurs should prepare for if they hope to sell 1052 00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:19,080 their businesses one day? Yeah. 1053 00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:22,080 I mean, you better be prepared to know your numbers really, 1054 00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,040 really well. You should be prepared to talk 1055 00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:28,880 about recurring revenue and predictable revenue, right? 1056 00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:32,800 That's what they care about. And I would say understand if 1057 00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:35,240 you go through a process like I did and you know, I met with 1058 00:53:35,240 --> 00:53:39,920 about 10 companies, it's, it's, it's an interesting process. 1059 00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:43,360 It's challenging, it's mentally challenging to go through it it 1060 00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:45,880 for me, I was kind of explaining like your dream is right here, 1061 00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:48,000 right? Like a lot of selling a company 1062 00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,360 for a lot of people to dream because financial independence, 1063 00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:54,560 whatever it is, you know, seeing what the company can go and it's 1064 00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:58,320 a roller coaster and you know, like my process is about 100 1065 00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:02,120 days, 120 days. And man, it's like if anyone's 1066 00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:05,120 ever sold a house and you get a home inspection and it's very 1067 00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,360 stressful. It's like doing that everyday 1068 00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:11,960 for 120 days and they're going to, you know, it's, it's just, 1069 00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:15,760 it's a process, right? So having a mental therapist, my 1070 00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:17,240 I don't know how I would have gotten selling through my 1071 00:54:17,240 --> 00:54:19,040 company without having my therapist. 1072 00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:23,200 It was very, very stressful, mentally taxing, exciting as 1073 00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:26,840 well and worth it by the way. But just know that you know it. 1074 00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:28,560 That actual process is pretty brutal. 1075 00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:35,680 You know, tough diamonds don't last, but tough people do. 1076 00:54:35,720 --> 00:54:39,800 And the Survivor also like to say that God reserves his 1077 00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,160 toughest battles for his toughest soldiers. 1078 00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:45,280 Yeah, there you go. You're a tough one, you know, 1079 00:54:45,720 --> 00:54:48,200 but your book, Let's talk about your book, The Blueprint. 1080 00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:53,040 It aligns seven faces, you know, to start in a successful 1081 00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:56,920 business. So which of these faces do most 1082 00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:03,560 entrepreneurs underestimate? The first one is fear, How to 1083 00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,120 get over the fear of actually starting a company. 1084 00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:10,640 I think that was, you know, looking back at my journey, I 1085 00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:13,440 spent a good eight months, you know, kind of really 1086 00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:15,200 contemplating starting the business. 1087 00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,240 And like I said, I in the beginning, I, I was leaving a 1088 00:55:17,240 --> 00:55:19,920 high paying job. So that actually made it harder 1089 00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,720 in some regards. But that process, I look back 1090 00:55:22,720 --> 00:55:25,840 and like, man, did I expend a lot of energy on that. 1091 00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:29,280 And it's obviously the most important thing because you got 1092 00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:30,720 it. You got to make that first step. 1093 00:55:30,720 --> 00:55:33,640 You got to take that that leap off the off the Cliff, so to 1094 00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:35,920 speak. And then a. 1000 miles begins 1095 00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:37,760 with a step. That's right. 1096 00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:40,120 It's that first step, right? And overcoming that fear. 1097 00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:43,640 And that's, I start off my book talking about it, the exercises 1098 00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:46,720 that I did to get over the fear. That's the number one thing 1099 00:55:46,720 --> 00:55:51,320 because once you do that, I found the rest of it actually 1100 00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:55,840 easier than I expected it to be. I found it easy to be successful 1101 00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:57,720 running the business and making profit. 1102 00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:01,360 And there's a lot of challenges, but man, that first step was 1103 00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:03,800 hard. And so that's why a lot of 1104 00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:07,120 reasons why I wrote the book is I wanted I know how I felt about 1105 00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:09,760 it at the time. I know the things that I did to 1106 00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:13,000 overcome the fear and it without taking that first step in my 1107 00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:15,960 life is like, I can't even believe it. 1108 00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:17,840 It's my life now. You know, I've been retired 1109 00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:19,840 since I'm 45. I get to do whatever I want a 1110 00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:22,280 daily basis. None of that happens without 1111 00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,520 that first step. So that's the biggest thing. 1112 00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:28,000 I think people if they're very serious about making it and 1113 00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:30,880 they're leaving a kind of situation like I was, it's it's 1114 00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:32,760 nerve wracking. So how do you get over that? 1115 00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:34,360 That's that's the thing, people under, under. 1116 00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:37,840 That I think you need some therapy to get over that. 1117 00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:42,800 Yeah. It's like about failure. 1118 00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:46,760 Failure and resilience. You know, you're to share a 1119 00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:49,720 moment where you thought things might collapse. 1120 00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:52,800 And of course, maybe heaven might fall. 1121 00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:57,920 The heaven never falls. And how did you turn that 1122 00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:02,040 obstacle into an opportunity? Sure. 1123 00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:05,840 Yeah. You know, in 2015, we, we've 1124 00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:09,320 been kind of running for about, you know, 3-4 years and things 1125 00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:12,000 were really good. And most of our business model 1126 00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,400 was, was, you know, building services and products around 1127 00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:19,560 large technology companies and kind of filling in gaps. 1128 00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:23,840 And we had two major partners and both of them got massively 1129 00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:27,400 disrupted in the same year and that massively disrupted us. 1130 00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:30,680 So, you know, we had built our kind of whole company around 1131 00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:33,480 these two technologies. The one company was like selling 1132 00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:35,480 off and going to sell off this technology. 1133 00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:37,120 They didn't care about it anymore. 1134 00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:41,320 The other one was kind of like they were getting acquired as 1135 00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:43,720 well. And it was just all, they were 1136 00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:47,000 very disrupted, which made us very disrupted. 1137 00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:50,480 And I kind of was like, oh, and our sales started going down 1138 00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:52,560 because customers weren't investing these technology, 1139 00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:54,520 weren't sure. And I was like, we've got to 1140 00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:57,840 find another partner. We've got to find a different 1141 00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:00,120 alley because we're not we, we probably could have milked those 1142 00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:03,360 customers and done OK. But you know, I was like, we've 1143 00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:07,240 got to find an opportunity here. And I and Microsoft, it kind of 1144 00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:11,440 just got into our space and I tried to like reach out and find 1145 00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:13,760 out what they were doing, but it was very kind of closed off 1146 00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:16,000 group. And I just threw persistence and 1147 00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:17,680 resilience. I was like that Microsoft is 1148 00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:21,520 going to change this industry. And I just non-stop all day for 1149 00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:24,680 months figured out any angle I could to try to get a meeting 1150 00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,960 with Microsoft. And I was flying to New York on 1151 00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:31,320 the maybe the promise of meeting for with someone which that 1152 00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:35,240 didn't even happen just to try to get any angle that I could. 1153 00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:38,920 And finally got a meeting just through pure persistence and 1154 00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:42,560 resilience and made the pitch about why we should be entered 1155 00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:45,960 into this program that Microsoft had kind of closed off and got 1156 00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:49,600 us into that program. And, you know, and we didn't 1157 00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:50,760 know a lot about their technologies. 1158 00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:54,360 We didn't, my team was very skeptical, but we got in there 1159 00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:57,920 and then we just, you know, took off and then that that part of 1160 00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:01,240 the business became our most profitable, our largest part of 1161 00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:02,920 the business. Now the company's still running 1162 00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:05,720 even though I left and you know, I sold the company, it's like 1163 00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:09,000 90% of revenue. And if I wouldn't have just 1164 00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:13,440 stubbornly non-stop work to get in this Microsoft program, the 1165 00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:16,360 company would would have gone under, I'm sure, or, or 1166 00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:17,880 certainly would have been what it became. 1167 00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:22,560 So, you know, sometimes when these things, you know, doors 1168 00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:25,680 close, the window opens kind of thing, that's the way I looked 1169 00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:28,760 at it and it's scary. Well, you just got to do it, 1170 00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:30,240 right. It's, it's sometimes it's almost 1171 00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:32,280 about survival. And it wound up being the 1172 00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:34,160 greatest thing for us. And at the time, it did not feel 1173 00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:37,520 like a great thing, you know, that these companies were kind 1174 00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:40,120 of going away. It was not a good feeling at 1175 00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:42,600 all. But you know, here's this new, 1176 00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:45,080 this new company and that we just took off with them and we 1177 00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:47,680 got off to an early start. And that's why companies wanted 1178 00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:48,880 to buy us. They wanted to get into the 1179 00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:50,440 Microsoft space and we were the leaders. 1180 00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:53,720 So anyways, but yeah, it's it's those things and you can't 1181 00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:57,080 control it. So all you can control is what 1182 00:59:57,080 --> 01:00:01,040 you do about it. You cannot control what happened 1183 01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:04,200 outside of you where you can control what happens inside of 1184 01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:06,200 you. And I love the way you 1185 01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:08,600 structured it really beautifully wet. 1186 01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:11,800 One door closes. It's it's the opportunity for 1187 01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:16,080 another door to to open each of these as human beings, it never 1188 01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:21,600 makes sense to us in real time. It never makes sense to us in 1189 01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:27,160 real time, but, you know, down the line, you know, after some 1190 01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:31,920 months or years and then you get back and you're grateful because 1191 01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:37,480 to myself, I'm always grateful that setting opportunities that 1192 01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:42,440 I really wanted very, very badly did not come my way because I 1193 01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:45,760 ended up, you know, harnessing bigger and better opportunities. 1194 01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:49,400 Yeah, I mean that. And everyone has that, right. 1195 01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:51,680 You can look back at your life, whether it be a relationship, 1196 01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:54,920 whatever, be whatever, you know, and everyone has those moments 1197 01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:57,080 in their life where they can look back and say, man, at the 1198 01:00:57,080 --> 01:00:59,360 time I was pissed. I didn't get that. 1199 01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:00,840 But it wound up being the best thing for you. 1200 01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:03,640 And it doesn't, like you said, it doesn't feel great at the 1201 01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:07,760 time, but, you know, draw, draw on those past experiences 1202 01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:11,000 because, yeah, you never know. You just never know. 1203 01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:17,040 You'd never know, you know, you talked about the Maslow's 1204 01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:20,800 Hercule weeds right there. And of course, like I told you 1205 01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:24,320 very early in life, I was exposed to reading books on 1206 01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:28,280 psychology and philosophy. That is, you know, one of my 1207 01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:31,600 favorite psychology models because it, it really much, you 1208 01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:40,600 know, articulates human desires very to a high level of 1209 01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:43,840 precision and, and accuracy. And when I look at that 1210 01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:47,640 triangle, I think you, you're actually right up there trying 1211 01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:51,040 to get that self actualization. So when I look at you, you're 1212 01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:52,800 tired. And of course, now you're 1213 01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:55,840 exploring publishing and even film production. 1214 01:01:56,160 --> 01:02:00,840 So how important is it for entrepreneurs to pursue 1215 01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:02,800 creativity? Passion. 1216 01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:04,840 Projects, yeah. I think outside of business. 1217 01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:08,880 I think it's great. I mean, you know, for me, I 1218 01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:10,800 started the company because I want to be able to control my 1219 01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,280 future a little bit of control free. 1220 01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:16,360 And so I put myself in that position. 1221 01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:20,600 So I was, you know, 45 years old and here I am retired and, and I 1222 01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:23,960 had all these dreams and, and ambitions as a kid, right. 1223 01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:26,000 And I think a lot of it's like going back to what you want to 1224 01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:28,360 do as a kid. I always wanted to write a book. 1225 01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:30,640 I always wanted to make a comedy movie. 1226 01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:33,480 I wanted to be able to do whatever I wanted to do when I 1227 01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:36,320 was older and I'm like, I'm going to go do those things like 1228 01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:41,440 now I have I worked really hard. I took some risks, you know, had 1229 01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:44,680 this with a lot of value for our customers that turn into value 1230 01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:46,920 for me. And now I'm going to go do these 1231 01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:50,520 things and it it is those that Maxwell hierarchy needs, right? 1232 01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:53,720 It's like I felt like I could write a really good book and the 1233 01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:56,000 market right now is telling me that that's what I did. 1234 01:02:56,360 --> 01:03:00,200 And I felt like I could really make a funny movie and I'm still 1235 01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:02,000 working on it. But I feel like that's what the 1236 01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:04,960 market will think and it's that self actualization, right? 1237 01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:07,760 Like I felt like I could run a successful business. 1238 01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:10,120 I did, right. So it's like I felt these 1239 01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:13,400 things, I've actualized them. And when you build, when you 1240 01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:15,440 have success in one thing, it builds another's right. 1241 01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:18,680 Like a lot of people were like a lot of people were like, oh man, 1242 01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:20,360 what if you write this book and it bombs? 1243 01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:21,840 You know, you're going to be so embarrassed. 1244 01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:23,800 I'm like, you know, people said that to me. 1245 01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:26,920 And I'm like, I don't, I don't think it's going to bomb because 1246 01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:29,560 I, I know I read a lot of business books, blah, blah, 1247 01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:30,960 blah. Same thing with this movie. 1248 01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:33,160 Like, man, what if it sucks? I'm like, I'm not worried. 1249 01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:35,680 About it, If it sucks, I'll do a sequel. 1250 01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:40,560 Yeah, I love that. That's funny. 1251 01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:42,840 You know that's what I always tell people, right? 1252 01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:45,080 Even if it feels I just found another way. 1253 01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:47,160 We things don't work, I will keep going. 1254 01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:48,600 You can't stop. Yeah, and it's all right. 1255 01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:50,800 A lot of these things I'm doing for myself, like the book I 1256 01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:54,400 wrote for myself, like I wrote it for the kid that was 32 years 1257 01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:56,560 old going through that, right? Like what was helpful for me in 1258 01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:58,120 the same thing with this movie, I'm like, I'm making it for 1259 01:03:58,120 --> 01:03:59,840 myself. It's a passion project. 1260 01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:02,200 So I think it's important for entrepreneurs to scratch those 1261 01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:05,640 creative itches because in general I have found I know 1262 01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:08,040 hundreds of entrepreneurs, they're all very pretty 1263 01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:11,040 creative, right? You get in, be running a 1264 01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:13,160 business is a very creative endeavor. 1265 01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:18,160 And so I have found that most of them have a lot of interest 1266 01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:22,160 outside of, you know, just being running a business, right. 1267 01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:26,160 And you know, being being an entrepreneur is a very creative 1268 01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:27,920 process. Like you're creating products, 1269 01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:29,920 literally, you're bringing on people. 1270 01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:31,840 You're you're do you're, you're creating. 1271 01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:36,400 So I think naturally for any entrepreneur to have those other 1272 01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:39,160 interests is important. I don't think I probably need 1273 01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:41,400 even say it that much because I bet they're doing it already. 1274 01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:44,080 Like, I'm sure you have creative interests that you do, you know? 1275 01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:45,600 I mean, look at your backward setup. 1276 01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:52,720 After that, you didn't see more episodes of my podcast, right? 1277 01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:55,560 I've had creatives on the forecast. 1278 01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:57,640 I've had even musicians on the forecast. 1279 01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:02,800 Maybe I did not tell you growing up because I was a skinny kid. 1280 01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:06,720 They used to want to believe me. So I go into martial arts. 1281 01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:10,960 So I started with Taekwondo, karate, moved to mixed martial 1282 01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:13,560 arts. So I've had world champions in 1283 01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:17,120 boxing, world champions in MMA, you know, guys in the UFC. 1284 01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:19,480 But there's more Cage Warriors. They've all been on this 1285 01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:23,240 podcast, you know, and I love, I love mixed martial arts. 1286 01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:28,080 Anybody that knows me closely knows 3 letters are very dear to 1287 01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:30,880 my heart. That's the UFC and yeah, what 1288 01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:31,760 about the country? London. 1289 01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:34,480 And I'm there. I was there at the Altar Arena 1290 01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:39,840 and at the CA, you know, and, you know, that's something 1291 01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:42,720 creative, you know, outside of building the company that, you 1292 01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:46,480 know, I'm very passionate about. And even the way to tease, you 1293 01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:49,840 know, people on the broadcast is the Brisbane for introduction. 1294 01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:54,520 You know, I fused it into, you know, yeah, the the podcast, you 1295 01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:57,040 have a big party for your. Hands like this too. 1296 01:05:57,040 --> 01:05:58,120 I was like, we're getting into a fight. 1297 01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:00,120 This is great. I felt like I was going about 1298 01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:02,520 hearing like literally that's what I thought of when you were 1299 01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:04,160 the intro. I mean, actually I said the 1300 01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:06,480 bulls thing as well, but when I listen to some of your other 1301 01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:08,960 episodes, I'm like, man, it's like a Ding, Ding, Ding, let's 1302 01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:11,560 go here. And of course, think about it. 1303 01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:13,560 Life is actually fine. I think about. 1304 01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:16,560 It oh 100%. Oh, we have lots of battles. 1305 01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:21,320 Yeah, yeah. No, I I've got a lot of. 1306 01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:24,200 Battles. I've got another idea book 1307 01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:26,600 that's just going to be called Fight, and that's what it's just 1308 01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:28,080 about. Life is going to fight you every 1309 01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:30,880 day. Let us collaborate on that one. 1310 01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:36,960 And of course you know that. That's why I love working with 1311 01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:39,200 athletes. They, they understand. 1312 01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:43,200 They understand the concept of teamwork makes a dream work. 1313 01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:47,160 Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. If you, if you're doing a team 1314 01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:50,440 sport or an individual sport, you know what it means to have 1315 01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:54,320 that discipline. Dr. Consistency. 1316 01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:58,120 A lot of people tell me and even people that don't really know me 1317 01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:00,720 because they've seen my body of work, you know, over time, they 1318 01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:03,000 said, how do you manage to be consistent? 1319 01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:06,160 You know, even when I was in a corporate world, still putting 1320 01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:10,880 on my body of work, like it's a function of commitment, right? 1321 01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:13,160 And finding ways to be efficient. 1322 01:07:13,160 --> 01:07:19,680 And when you're committed to something, it's really crazy how 1323 01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:22,000 much you can achieve over time. It's just like compound 1324 01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:27,120 interest. You say I am going to save $1.00 1325 01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:32,080 one pound a day for the next, you know, 300 assets or five 1326 01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:33,520 days. You'll be amazed with, you know 1327 01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:34,880 what you're going to put together. 1328 01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:39,080 But people don't have that discipline to be able to stay 1329 01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:42,360 committed. And you know, I say, yeah, I 1330 01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:44,640 know I'm not need you video with a high IQ. 1331 01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:48,240 That's not what really sets me apart is sets me apart is that 1332 01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:52,360 ability to stay disciplined and consistent and just cheap in 1333 01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:54,680 the, you know, cheap the block every day. 1334 01:07:55,480 --> 01:07:59,160 Yeah, it's the only way to do it. 130 episodes Like how? 1335 01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:02,480 How did I come from? Yeah, Discipline. 1336 01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:04,640 Equal success. Yeah. 1337 01:08:04,680 --> 01:08:06,320 I mean, you've got to be disciplined. 1338 01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:09,280 You've got to stay committed. You have to have a process 1339 01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:13,800 that's just a essential building block of anything being 1340 01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:16,359 successful. But you know, that's funny 1341 01:08:16,359 --> 01:08:18,600 thing, right? Yeah, I'm going to talk about 1342 01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:20,120 this. Yeah, there's a book either 1343 01:08:20,120 --> 01:08:24,080 work, right? I'm about to publish a book at 1344 01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:28,399 that book is on helping podcasters, you know, to succeed 1345 01:08:28,399 --> 01:08:32,200 in this podcasting journey. And I have a podcasting 1346 01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:37,080 management service under my company and I had 6 broadcaster 1347 01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:44,000 on the management 6. But now we have 5, The five of 1348 01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:46,720 them, you're on the Kingdom's forecast. 1349 01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:50,240 That's the highest ranked. Global top 2.5%. 1350 01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:55,399 We have Guy over CFO global 5%, top 5%. 1351 01:08:55,640 --> 01:08:57,399 We have bricks and backs by Stephanie. 1352 01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:03,000 That is global top 5%. We have the crews tycoon global 1353 01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:05,479 top 10%. And of course, we have business 1354 01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:11,600 11 global top 10% or we have one that I'm not going to mention 1355 01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:13,720 the name. I think everybody deserves, you 1356 01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:16,319 know, their dignity to be protected. 1357 01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:22,120 And this was the only person who struggled with consistency, 1358 01:09:22,359 --> 01:09:26,240 right, right. And also this person, I don't 1359 01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:29,880 like the fact that they weren't faithful about, you know, their 1360 01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:32,600 financial commitment to the program, right? 1361 01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:35,399 And they thought they could be smart about it. 1362 01:09:35,399 --> 01:09:39,359 And you know, which are not like I, I was just laughing behind 1363 01:09:39,359 --> 01:09:42,399 because if you're not investing in me, you're investing in 1364 01:09:42,399 --> 01:09:44,240 yourself. Right. 1365 01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:46,960 Yeah, that's sure changed. That's just stupid. 1366 01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:49,279 But yeah. And they are the only ones that 1367 01:09:49,279 --> 01:09:52,600 I left behind right now. Yeah, I feel sad for them. 1368 01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:55,320 I feel sad for them. You know, back to where you have 1369 01:09:55,320 --> 01:09:58,640 a SAS tool and somebody is trying to use that SAS tool, 1370 01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:01,640 right, without paying the subscription like. 1371 01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:04,760 Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1372 01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:05,880 It's not gonna work. Yeah. 1373 01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:08,240 Well, life will teach them plenty of painful lessons. 1374 01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:11,360 I feel bad, I feel bad for them. You can lead a horse to the 1375 01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:13,800 stream, but you cannot force it to drink. 1376 01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:16,280 That's one lesson. I'm learning this word of 1377 01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:19,800 entrepreneurship. But like I said previously, it's 1378 01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:22,200 hard to teach people attitude. Yeah. 1379 01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:24,440 I was just going to say it brings us back to earlier about 1380 01:10:24,440 --> 01:10:26,960 like you, you can't teach them. They either have it or don't 1381 01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:29,040 have it. And like that's where we used to 1382 01:10:29,040 --> 01:10:31,760 say if we have to manage you, we're going to manage you out of 1383 01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:33,400 the organization. Like you shouldn't be here, 1384 01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:37,120 like, you know, you know, you should be a leader, you should 1385 01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:38,960 have those things, you should have those attributes. 1386 01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:42,680 So that's, that's part of it is, you know, but it's, it's a 1387 01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:45,680 lesson learned for you too, you know, like that's not everyone's 1388 01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:51,960 going to be above board with how they act and how they, and, and 1389 01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:55,520 that's, that's what I found in, in management and leadership is 1390 01:10:56,200 --> 01:10:59,520 once you identify those people, get them out like we would just, 1391 01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:02,040 you know, sorry, you're not a good fit. 1392 01:11:02,480 --> 01:11:04,600 You know, we used to say, you know, positive attitude, 1393 01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:07,000 positive results, you'll love it being here. 1394 01:11:07,320 --> 01:11:09,520 Positive attitude, not great results. 1395 01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:12,120 Hey, we'll work with you. We'll help you figure it out. 1396 01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:15,000 Negative attitude, negative results, you're gone, you know, 1397 01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:16,720 and that's going to be the. Cut off. 1398 01:11:17,440 --> 01:11:19,240 Yeah, gone. We're not here. 1399 01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:21,200 You don't even, you're not, you're not going to last. 1400 01:11:21,200 --> 01:11:24,080 You're going to be exposed. So like that last person you 1401 01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:25,920 mentioned, that's a negative attitude, negative results, 1402 01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:27,480 right. So get out here, you know, just 1403 01:11:27,480 --> 01:11:31,800 goodbye. Wow, lots of lessons, you know, 1404 01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:35,960 I've been learnt here and of course, I think that's a good 1405 01:11:35,960 --> 01:11:40,240 way to segue to the last question I have for you, and 1406 01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:42,560 that's about your legacy and impact. 1407 01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:46,280 So looking back and of course looking forward, what do you 1408 01:11:46,280 --> 01:11:49,840 hope your entrepreneurial journey inspires in the next 1409 01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:53,280 generation of of founders? Yeah, I mean, you know, that's 1410 01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:56,680 why I wrote the book a is just to inspire people to be an 1411 01:11:56,680 --> 01:11:58,440 entrepreneur. That's what I was really hoping 1412 01:11:58,440 --> 01:12:02,600 to do because I know what a great life it's given me. 1413 01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:05,200 And you know, it's something I teach my kids about, you know, 1414 01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:08,520 being an entrepreneur. And and I think in this age of 1415 01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:11,520 AI where a lot of things are going to, oh, there are going to 1416 01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:14,040 be job loss and they'll be job created because of AI too. 1417 01:12:14,040 --> 01:12:18,600 I'm not saying that, but I think I don't know what profession I 1418 01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:22,720 would tell my kids to go learn to be in college right now that 1419 01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:25,800 isn't going to just get totally disrupted by AI, but you're 1420 01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:27,240 always going to need entrepreneurs. 1421 01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:32,360 So if I could inspire one person to be an entrepreneur that was 1422 01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:34,960 kind of on the fence, that have been worth it for the book for 1423 01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:35,920 me. And I've actually received a 1424 01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:38,440 couple emails saying just that. So that's it. 1425 01:12:38,440 --> 01:12:41,400 I think I would just, it's inspiring people to be 1426 01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:43,680 entrepreneurs and then if there's anything they can learn 1427 01:12:44,320 --> 01:12:48,800 from my lessons and my trials and errors and tribulations, I 1428 01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:53,240 would be thrilled about that. I think that that is actually 1429 01:12:53,240 --> 01:12:54,720 well said. Something just popped on my 1430 01:12:54,720 --> 01:12:56,640 mind. I I want to make you make a 1431 01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:59,400 commitment. I don't be recorded right. 1432 01:12:59,720 --> 01:13:03,240 So your book I, I, I really need a copy of that book. 1433 01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:06,920 I have a couple of books that are ready to buy, you know, from 1434 01:13:06,920 --> 01:13:08,600 a guest. So we have this. 1435 01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:09,680 You know this. I'll send you. 1436 01:13:09,680 --> 01:13:12,240 Here it is. There is mine, yeah. 1437 01:13:12,440 --> 01:13:16,760 Don't just want a copy of the book, I want an autographed copy 1438 01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:17,640 of the book. No worries. 1439 01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:21,200 I will send you on. Just just just like, just like 1440 01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:24,200 what Professor Bruno did, right? I think I need to start 1441 01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:26,760 connecting this autograph. There you go, I accept. 1442 01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:29,240 Accept your challenge. OK, OK. 1443 01:13:29,240 --> 01:13:30,720 Thank you very much. I appreciate that. 1444 01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:34,600 So you know what time it is, is the quick fire round. 1445 01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:37,360 Let's do it fun, fast and of course insightful. 1446 01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:42,320 Just give me the quickest answer that you can provide to this 1447 01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:44,880 questions. Are you ready to rumble? 1448 01:13:48,480 --> 01:13:49,840 Yes. Let's go. 1449 01:13:50,440 --> 01:13:54,920 OK, So what is one book that you think changed your life? 1450 01:13:55,840 --> 01:13:57,840 Yeah, I, you know, I know I mentioned how to win friends 1451 01:13:57,840 --> 01:14:00,680 influence people that that one day, but I already said that so 1452 01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:04,440 and I know another common entrepreneur 1 is rich Dad, poor 1453 01:14:04,440 --> 01:14:06,080 dad. But when I read that book. 1454 01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:10,040 Robert Kiyosaki. Yeah, I was young and it just 1455 01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:14,080 like changed my mind. Like I, I, I was thirsty for 1456 01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:15,800 something. I was searching for something. 1457 01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:17,880 I didn't know what that was. And I read that book and I'm 1458 01:14:17,880 --> 01:14:20,680 like, this is it, This is what I'm talking about. 1459 01:14:20,920 --> 01:14:23,360 It seemed like a major life hack to me. 1460 01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:28,360 I, I definitely assimilated with that book. 1461 01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:29,240 I don't know, it's not the right word. 1462 01:14:29,240 --> 01:14:31,720 I'm looking for whatever. I saw myself on that book and 1463 01:14:31,720 --> 01:14:34,960 that my dad was kind of like my real dad growing up was kind of 1464 01:14:34,960 --> 01:14:38,000 like the poor dad in that book. He's get a good education, 1465 01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:39,760 etcetera. I don't mean poor, like, you 1466 01:14:39,760 --> 01:14:42,280 know, whatever he, that was what his opinion was. 1467 01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:44,840 And then I had a buddy, one of my best friend's dad was like an 1468 01:14:44,840 --> 01:14:46,520 entrepreneur. He was kind of like the rich 1469 01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:48,560 dad. So there was 2 very influential 1470 01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:51,600 men in my, in my young life. And so that kind of made sense 1471 01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:53,760 to me. Anyways, I, that book changed my 1472 01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:56,280 life. I went on AI, went on a reading 1473 01:14:56,280 --> 01:15:00,120 spree, I learned about finance, I learned about entrepreneurship 1474 01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:03,560 I real estate, which I still do to this day as well that that 1475 01:15:03,640 --> 01:15:08,160 book changed my life. Do you want to hear a phone 1476 01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:10,320 fact? Yes. 1477 01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:15,360 Robert Kiyosaki says the same birthday with me. 1478 01:15:16,240 --> 01:15:20,360 Robert Kiyosaki is April 8th 1947 and of course I'm April 1479 01:15:20,360 --> 01:15:22,680 8th, 1992, so. That's cool. 1480 01:15:25,480 --> 01:15:29,360 Know, know that you are. You're talking to the rich dad. 1481 01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:30,920 Yeah. I want that. 1482 01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:35,240 Well, maybe maybe everyone born on April, like there's an 1483 01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:37,000 entrepreneur, you know, like that's. 1484 01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:39,360 Yeah. Oh, where's your birthday? 1485 01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:43,520 On November 17th. November 7th. 1486 01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:47,680 OK, you close to my 1717170. You're Scorpio. 1487 01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:49,160 Scorpio. Yes, Scorpio. 1488 01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:52,520 Yeah, you, you can. My mom is a Scorpio. 1489 01:15:52,840 --> 01:15:55,640 We we don't see eye to eye and everything that's. 1490 01:15:56,680 --> 01:15:58,400 All we need to worry about, yeah. 1491 01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:02,160 I'll tell you, I'll tell you, you know, like I feel, I feel 1492 01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:06,480 like my mom feels like I'm this troublemaker personality. 1493 01:16:06,480 --> 01:16:10,360 But you know, the troublemaker is honest is only making things 1494 01:16:10,360 --> 01:16:12,760 happen. But I don't know that is what I 1495 01:16:12,760 --> 01:16:14,800 feel. But she told me that no, that's 1496 01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:17,480 not what I think about you. But on my mind, that's what I 1497 01:16:17,480 --> 01:16:20,800 think you think. It's funny, I like that. 1498 01:16:21,240 --> 01:16:25,080 But think about it right, Right. What did you say? 1499 01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:28,080 That I'm also troublemaker, so all good there. 1500 01:16:28,240 --> 01:16:32,240 I'm telling you, I I feel like if you are going to be great at 1501 01:16:32,240 --> 01:16:35,960 entrepreneurship, you have to be a disruptor and you have to be a 1502 01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:38,800 troublemaker of some sorts. That, yeah, I agree. 1503 01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:40,480 Yeah, maybe this is. Wrong. 1504 01:16:40,480 --> 01:16:45,520 Go go check them out. Like you, most others be a 1505 01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:49,480 disruptor and I always like to say those mouths don't get fed. 1506 01:16:50,800 --> 01:16:52,400 Yep, right. Yeah. 1507 01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:55,400 So we always have to stand our grounds and, you know, be 1508 01:16:55,400 --> 01:16:59,040 assertive. And sometimes being assertive 1509 01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:00,760 leads to being borderline aggressive. 1510 01:17:00,920 --> 01:17:05,600 And aggression is not. It's not a bad thing entirely. 1511 01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:08,240 But I think people get uncomfortable with, you know, 1512 01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:12,720 people being aggressive because if you're ambitious, you have to 1513 01:17:12,720 --> 01:17:16,280 be aggressive, you know, to chase those things. 1514 01:17:17,320 --> 01:17:20,480 That's difficult to achieve. Well, I don't know if you want 1515 01:17:20,480 --> 01:17:24,160 to speak to that. No, no, I agree. 1516 01:17:24,160 --> 01:17:27,440 I mean, I think it's just about being pointing it in a positive 1517 01:17:27,440 --> 01:17:29,520 direction, you know? Absolutely. 1518 01:17:29,520 --> 01:17:32,080 You know, Yeah, You know, And of course, when they see the 1519 01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:34,840 results, they not come and say, oh, wow, I'm proud of you. 1520 01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:46,160 But excuse me, coffee, meditation or both. 1521 01:17:47,040 --> 01:17:51,760 Meditation. Oh wow, you just did that should 1522 01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:54,960 have a little question. OK, Biggest misconception about 1523 01:17:54,960 --> 01:17:59,680 entrepreneurship? I found it easier to be 1524 01:17:59,680 --> 01:18:02,160 successful than I thought it would be. 1525 01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:05,240 I think it's all the other things that go with it, like we 1526 01:18:05,240 --> 01:18:07,960 talked about today. Yeah, I think it's a 1527 01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:10,320 misconception that it's hard to run a successful business. 1528 01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:12,720 I do. I think it's about determination 1529 01:18:12,720 --> 01:18:14,600 and grit, and you got to have some talent, too. 1530 01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:18,520 But I think people, you know, they hear the numbers, 5% of 1531 01:18:18,520 --> 01:18:20,640 businesses fail in the first five years or whatever. 1532 01:18:21,240 --> 01:18:24,440 I think that's a misconception. I think it's people give up or 1533 01:18:24,440 --> 01:18:26,080 quit. They're not resilient. 1534 01:18:27,200 --> 01:18:31,120 Yeah, determination that greets the grind and of course the the 1535 01:18:31,120 --> 01:18:34,000 execution. So if you could have dinner with 1536 01:18:34,120 --> 01:18:39,480 one entrepreneur, you know in world history even or dead. 1537 01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:44,120 Yeah, this is a good one. I, you know, there's a the 1538 01:18:44,120 --> 01:18:47,000 couple that rattle in my brain. I'll give you kind of one that 1539 01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:49,080 is not probably talked about as much. 1540 01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:52,480 You know, Tim Ferriss, who wrote the four hour work week. 1541 01:18:52,480 --> 01:18:56,440 I was big fan of that book. That book really helped me run 1542 01:18:56,440 --> 01:18:58,760 the business to the beginning and be more efficient and 1543 01:18:58,760 --> 01:19:01,160 effective. And I listen to his I was like 1544 01:19:01,160 --> 01:19:03,440 early listeners podcast. I just think he's a great 1545 01:19:03,440 --> 01:19:07,280 teacher and it would be more more so to say thank you because 1546 01:19:07,280 --> 01:19:09,120 I feel like he he changed my life. 1547 01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:11,240 I've never met him or anything and listen to his podcast, but 1548 01:19:11,560 --> 01:19:14,760 there was an opportunity at one point when he was kind of on, he 1549 01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:18,280 wasn't very well known where you could bid on a dinner. 1550 01:19:19,280 --> 01:19:22,480 You could bid on a charity to go to a dinner and I'd try bidding 1551 01:19:22,480 --> 01:19:24,360 and it like they didn't get my bid or something. 1552 01:19:24,360 --> 01:19:26,400 And I was like, I'm going to, I'm going to make this happen. 1553 01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:31,200 So when I saw that, I was like, yeah, that's I would try to go 1554 01:19:31,200 --> 01:19:34,080 back in time and, and do that. But I think you guys are 1555 01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:37,520 brilliant dude. And he I would, I think I would 1556 01:19:37,520 --> 01:19:41,240 enjoy talking to him so. OK, fantastica team first, 1557 01:19:41,240 --> 01:19:44,240 right? OK, yeah, we work something out, 1558 01:19:44,280 --> 01:19:45,480 We work something out. There you go. 1559 01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:50,840 Make that happen, right? Yeah, you know, I'm the go to 1560 01:19:50,880 --> 01:19:52,880 guy. I'm the one who makes this 1561 01:19:52,880 --> 01:19:54,400 happen. That's why I'm called the 1562 01:19:54,400 --> 01:19:57,880 troublemaker. I love it. 1563 01:19:59,040 --> 01:20:03,240 Wow. So before I let you go, you are 1564 01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:06,640 pretty much like a Big Brother, right between us and 1565 01:20:06,680 --> 01:20:11,680 entrepreneurs. So what's your last statement of 1566 01:20:11,720 --> 01:20:17,840 advice, especially when it comes to a growth mindset for Statue 1567 01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:20,960 of Business? Yeah, I would say just just look 1568 01:20:20,960 --> 01:20:22,880 at as obstacles as opportunities. 1569 01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:28,400 There's a famous military hero in the United States, some Jocko 1570 01:20:28,400 --> 01:20:29,680 Willenic. I don't know if you know who he 1571 01:20:29,680 --> 01:20:35,200 is, but he he has something that he calls the good mindset where 1572 01:20:35,200 --> 01:20:37,800 it's looking at setbacks as opportunities. 1573 01:20:37,800 --> 01:20:42,440 Like, oh, I didn't get that job good, I can go start a company. 1574 01:20:42,760 --> 01:20:45,720 Oh, I didn't get financing to start my company. 1575 01:20:45,720 --> 01:20:48,640 Great, good. Or you know, excuse me, good, I 1576 01:20:48,640 --> 01:20:51,400 will own more equity. You know, I didn't get that deal 1577 01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:53,880 Good, I can go get a more high profitable customer. 1578 01:20:53,880 --> 01:20:57,320 So it's hard to do that right? It's difficult. 1579 01:20:57,320 --> 01:21:01,400 Your your natural reaction is to not feel that way. 1580 01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:04,400 But if you do look at that way, and that's what I would try to 1581 01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:06,840 do is like, OK, how can I look at the good in this? 1582 01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:10,560 OK, it's not natural, but how would I, how would I, what would 1583 01:21:10,560 --> 01:21:12,320 I do? What would become something good 1584 01:21:12,320 --> 01:21:13,920 out of it? Like I talked about before, that 1585 01:21:14,280 --> 01:21:16,800 situation where the two companies we build our services 1586 01:21:16,800 --> 01:21:19,200 around were like kind of very disrupted. 1587 01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:23,160 It's like I could have just kept going and rode that out and 1588 01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:25,360 whatever. But I was like, OK, good. 1589 01:21:25,360 --> 01:21:27,360 I'll look at this as an opportunity to go partner with 1590 01:21:27,360 --> 01:21:29,040 Microsoft. And then that took us off to a 1591 01:21:29,040 --> 01:21:31,960 whole new level. And so, you know, it's, it's 1592 01:21:31,960 --> 01:21:35,240 difficult, but it's an important mindset to have. 1593 01:21:36,840 --> 01:21:38,880 I think I really love that mindset. 1594 01:21:39,680 --> 01:21:41,720 It reminds me of a book I read growing up. 1595 01:21:42,320 --> 01:21:44,320 And of course, I'm really grateful that, you know, while I 1596 01:21:44,320 --> 01:21:48,560 was a teenager, I was exposed to a lot of really good self help 1597 01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:51,840 self development books. Well, I remember this one, it's 1598 01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:55,520 by Doctor Willie Jolie. Of course the Titan of the book 1599 01:21:55,760 --> 01:21:58,560 is a set back is a setup for a comeback. 1600 01:21:59,840 --> 01:22:02,960 Yeah, I've heard that phrase, obviously, but I did not. 1601 01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:04,440 I've never read that book. That's great. 1602 01:22:05,280 --> 01:22:07,360 It's a book everybody should be, you know, it. 1603 01:22:07,400 --> 01:22:10,400 It talks about a particular formula, the dad, and that's a 1604 01:22:10,400 --> 01:22:12,920 vision, decision, action and desire. 1605 01:22:12,920 --> 01:22:17,040 And when I think back, you know, full second moment about how 1606 01:22:17,080 --> 01:22:21,920 those books have affected my life, influencing my mentality, 1607 01:22:22,400 --> 01:22:27,000 my attitude as a person. And now looking how it's helping 1608 01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:31,640 me to impact, you know, younger ones, you know, while you're 1609 01:22:31,640 --> 01:22:33,360 younger, you, you feel like you're going to be young 1610 01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:35,520 forever. But when you see these younger 1611 01:22:35,520 --> 01:22:39,400 ones look up to you and they tell you, oh, you're giving us 1612 01:22:39,400 --> 01:22:41,360 gems. Really appreciate you. 1613 01:22:41,840 --> 01:22:47,720 And my social media and somebody was messaging me on X formerly 1614 01:22:47,720 --> 01:22:51,480 cheater yesterday. And the person said, it's really 1615 01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:54,520 wonderful connecting with you. I feel so honored, you know, 1616 01:22:55,200 --> 01:22:58,080 having advice from a person like you. 1617 01:22:58,080 --> 01:23:06,600 And I'm like, who am I? Well, you never know your impact 1618 01:23:06,600 --> 01:23:08,480 and congratulations to you on the podcast. 1619 01:23:08,480 --> 01:23:12,720 Everything you're doing, man, and wouldn't possibly I like 1620 01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:15,360 like all the Jerry, your quote and stuff. 1621 01:23:15,360 --> 01:23:17,320 It's good stuff. So keep it going and. 1622 01:23:17,520 --> 01:23:20,520 Thank you very much for that. You know, faith, faith, faith is 1623 01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:23,320 a sometimes of these hope for the evidence of these not seen. 1624 01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:25,160 You know, I'm very, very big on faith. 1625 01:23:25,160 --> 01:23:28,800 And do you want to know what my best Bible verse is? 1626 01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:33,400 Yes, I would love to. Philippians chapter 4, verse 13. 1627 01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:36,080 I can do all things through crisis transcends me. 1628 01:23:36,680 --> 01:23:40,080 It keeps it going. Yeah. 1629 01:23:40,080 --> 01:23:41,280 And I was going to tell you something. 1630 01:23:41,600 --> 01:23:45,680 The very first book my father ever gifted me was thinking 1631 01:23:45,680 --> 01:23:47,440 Queries by Not Totally going to Kill. 1632 01:23:47,440 --> 01:23:48,560 Oh, yeah, the holy hill. Yeah. 1633 01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:50,480 Oh, of course I read that book. Yeah. 1634 01:23:51,120 --> 01:23:53,440 What I read that book? I love it. 1635 01:23:53,440 --> 01:23:54,920 I agree with it. You know, it's one of those 1636 01:23:54,920 --> 01:23:57,120 things you read and you're like, is this true? 1637 01:23:57,680 --> 01:24:00,400 And it seems kind of weird that I could just like think it and 1638 01:24:00,400 --> 01:24:03,520 grow rich. But that that book I read on 1639 01:24:04,440 --> 01:24:07,840 Millionaire Next Door is kind of similar kind of realm. 1640 01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:09,800 At least I read a lot of those self help books. 1641 01:24:09,800 --> 01:24:13,480 But yeah, think and grow rich. I mean, I never thought I'd be 1642 01:24:13,480 --> 01:24:16,800 in my position that I'm in now. And IA lot of those books were 1643 01:24:16,800 --> 01:24:19,280 very influential for me too. And I love that you talk about 1644 01:24:19,280 --> 01:24:22,240 reading so much because I'm a avid reader myself. 1645 01:24:22,280 --> 01:24:24,520 And that would be like probably one of the biggest things I 1646 01:24:24,520 --> 01:24:26,080 would say. And I tried it and it's part of 1647 01:24:26,080 --> 01:24:28,160 my kids. It's like read, you know, it's 1648 01:24:28,160 --> 01:24:32,200 like all the like secrets of life are hidden in books and 1649 01:24:32,200 --> 01:24:34,800 it's for you to unlock them. And you know, we it's really 1650 01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:39,520 easy to get caught up and you know, TikTok and Instagram or 1651 01:24:39,520 --> 01:24:42,320 whatever these kind of quick knit things, but like to have 1652 01:24:42,600 --> 01:24:45,640 concentrated time and energy. And I think there's some 1653 01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:47,640 beautiful about the written word, which is why I wanted to 1654 01:24:47,640 --> 01:24:49,640 write a book myself. You know, like you can really 1655 01:24:50,080 --> 01:24:53,920 fristalize, you know, what what you're trying to say. 1656 01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:56,600 And that's hard to do even like in a podcast, like I'll listen 1657 01:24:56,600 --> 01:24:59,120 back this like, Oh, I should have said that or I should have 1658 01:24:59,120 --> 01:25:02,320 said this or whatever. But when you're writing, you can 1659 01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:05,600 actually edit and really adapt it. 1660 01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:09,160 And so you're getting someone's best, you know, So if you're 1661 01:25:09,160 --> 01:25:12,800 reading all this stuff like that book, like that was his best, 1662 01:25:12,800 --> 01:25:16,360 you know, and that's the beauty of books that is doesn't exist. 1663 01:25:16,760 --> 01:25:20,720 Otherwise your movies a little bit, you know, but and that's 1664 01:25:20,760 --> 01:25:23,680 you know, I don't know. I am huge avid reader and I just 1665 01:25:23,760 --> 01:25:25,200 thought I love that I could tell that you are too. 1666 01:25:25,200 --> 01:25:27,480 So that's great. Thank you very much. 1667 01:25:27,480 --> 01:25:31,120 I think there's sort of like a solution to to what you were 1668 01:25:31,120 --> 01:25:35,280 just talking about. And I think that solution is 1669 01:25:35,280 --> 01:25:41,040 audio books and of course the contents of versions SO11 brand 1670 01:25:41,040 --> 01:25:44,280 or what product that I really appreciate is Blinkist. 1671 01:25:44,680 --> 01:25:48,120 So hi guys, Blinkist, please tell them it's high time to 1672 01:25:48,120 --> 01:25:51,960 become sponsor this broadcast. So I have a one year 1673 01:25:51,960 --> 01:25:55,560 subscription with them. So for me, I I love to get 1674 01:25:55,560 --> 01:25:58,720 sponsored by brands that I use personally. 1675 01:25:59,120 --> 01:26:02,760 So I'm the most authentic person working on the surface of the 1676 01:26:02,800 --> 01:26:04,440 earth. So I'm an endangered species. 1677 01:26:04,600 --> 01:26:07,040 So I cannot advertise something that I don't use. 1678 01:26:07,400 --> 01:26:08,920 I cannot endorse something I don't use. 1679 01:26:09,320 --> 01:26:12,760 So that's a help in thank you very much, guys. 1680 01:26:12,760 --> 01:26:14,680 And of course, being kissed you up next. 1681 01:26:14,720 --> 01:26:21,760 Let's do this whoa And of course to Kevin Barnacle love and of 1682 01:26:21,760 --> 01:26:26,000 course respect to he. I only say that when a person 1683 01:26:26,000 --> 01:26:27,800 shares the time with you to share their life with you at 1684 01:26:27,800 --> 01:26:29,280 first. Thank you for sharing your life 1685 01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:30,040 and your time with. Me. 1686 01:26:30,080 --> 01:26:33,480 Thank you man. I'm very grateful to our 1687 01:26:33,480 --> 01:26:36,840 audience. Can you see that gorilla behind 1688 01:26:36,840 --> 01:26:39,800 Kevin, right? If you do not share and 1689 01:26:39,800 --> 01:26:43,720 subscribe and comment and show love to this broadcast that 1690 01:26:43,720 --> 01:26:46,840 Karina is from your way. And of course, for me, it's 1691 01:26:46,840 --> 01:26:50,560 goodbye Kevin. Any last last words or do you 1692 01:26:50,560 --> 01:26:52,800 want to give a shout out to anybody before you run away? 1693 01:26:53,840 --> 01:26:56,600 No thanks, man. I really enjoyed talking with 1694 01:26:56,600 --> 01:26:59,320 you and yeah, being a guest, so thank you. 1695 01:27:00,280 --> 01:27:01,800 OK, out of Chris. Hopefully. 1696 01:27:01,800 --> 01:27:03,360 We'll see. You'll see in the part too, 1697 01:27:03,360 --> 01:27:08,400 brother. Wow, like I like to say, guys, 1698 01:27:08,480 --> 01:27:11,040 guys, always go for something in your life so very, very 1699 01:27:11,040 --> 01:27:15,880 important, conceive, believe, strive to thrive and of course 1700 01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:18,160 achieve. And so that can't be a way next. 1701 01:27:18,160 --> 01:27:20,840 I love and I respect your way. Goodbye for me.