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If the only reason, if the only 
reason you're doing this is to 

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earn money or to earn some 
status in in the society, if 

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that's the only reason that gets
you only so far. 

4
00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,000
But if there is something bigger
than yourself, something 

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00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,120
contribution you're trying to 
makes, you're trying to make 

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00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,640
life better for some people. 
And that doesn't have to be 

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00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:25,120
grand things, but your mindset 
is about contribution, about 

8
00:00:25,120 --> 00:01:20,280
legacy. 
Hi there, are you a professional

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We are live. 
Ladies and gentlemen, you'll 

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once again welcome to the 
Kingdom's podcast and diary of a

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00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,080
CFO. 
And today I've got with me 

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fighting out of Atlanta, GA 
Mick, welcome. 

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Ahmed Bozer. 
Very well. 

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Wow. 
What a joyful introduction. 

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Thank you for that. 
Doing very well. 

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Thank you. 
Thank you for having me on your 

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show. 
Amazing, amazing, amazing. 

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And of course, a seat back. 
Why? 

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We'll give you your flowers. 
Today's episode is a special one

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00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,880
because we're joined by a global
Visa speeder whose carriers, 

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fans, continents, cultures and 
industries. 

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Our guest spent more than two 
decades at the Coca-Cola 

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Company, where he rose to become
president of Coca-Cola 

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International and group 
president for Eurasia and 

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Africa. 
In that role, he helped oversee 

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some of the fastest growing 
markets in the world, including 

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India, Turkey, the Middle East, 
and Africa. 

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Beyond corporate leadership, he 
has served on multiple global 

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boards, including Turkish 
Philanthropy Funds and the 

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Advisory Board of Georgia State 
University. 

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Today, he is focused on 
something even deeper, unlocking

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human potential. 
He is the author of Soldiery, A 

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framework built on the idea that
growth begins with mastering our

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thoughts, emotions, and mental 
models. 

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From leading global markets to 
mentoring readers and developing

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a philosophy of personal 
transformation, this story sits 

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00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:43,360
right at the intersection of 
leadership, mindset, and impact.

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00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,280
Ahmed, welcome to the Kingdom's 
podcast. 

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00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:49,920
Thank you once again, Thank you 
Adam Allah. 

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00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:55,440
You're welcome once again. 
So let's let's start, you know 

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from the beginning of your 
journey, right? 

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So you've actually spent more 
than 25 years at Coca-Cola and 

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essentially LED international 
operations across multiple 

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continents. 
When you reflect on that journey

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today, what we are the defining 
moments that shaped you as a 

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leader. 
There are so many, but other 

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more I'll focus on a couple of 
them which share a common theme.

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That common theme is sort of 
fusing what's seemingly 

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different or maybe sometimes 
opposite experiences into one. 

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So the most important one for me
was being exposed to cultures 

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that are predominantly 
individualistic and those 

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cultures that are predominantly 
collectivist. 

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If you plotted all the countries
around the world on the 

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spectrum, everybody would fall 
into some place. 

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But but certain characteristics 
of those cultures would make 

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them closer to being 
individualistic cultures where 

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you are constantly told you can 
do anything you want if you set 

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your mind to it. 
It's all up to you and your 

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borders are pretty defined. 
You know nobody will if they try

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to breach those borders. 
That's culturally not 

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acceptable. 
Then you have these cultures 

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that are more collectivist where
things like, if I do this, what 

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00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:24,640
would others say? 
Or I have to sort of deliver on 

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the expectation of my community 
or my family of those who are 

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close to me. 
So that's you're, you're more 

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00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,120
mindful of what the society 
expects from you. 

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I think experiencing both of 
these cultures were fascinating,

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and I came to realize that 
neither one is perfect. 

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Neither one is the right one. 
I thought I had to find the best

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of both worlds by taking what's 
best in the individualist 

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cultures and what's best in the 
collectivist cultures and and 

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then live those values yourself 
in your life to the best of your

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ability. 
This helps me grow as a person, 

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00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,600
but it also helps me grow as a 
leader. 

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00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:11,360
And that was probably one of the
sort of, I wouldn't say a 

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00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,400
moment, but a defining process 
that helped me grow as a leader.

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00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:19,240
The other one was more on the 
business side, where the 

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Coca-Cola system is comprised of
the Coca-Cola Company itself and

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00:06:24,280 --> 00:06:27,000
the bottling organizations. 
Those are separate companies. 

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And I've had the chance to work 
in both and in the course of 

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00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,440
everyday life, you know, this 
relationship is very important 

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00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:37,440
to the functioning of the 
Coca-Cola system. 

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And having the opportunity to, 
to be in both also gave me that.

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So those two, you know, 2 
experiences of fusing or 

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00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:50,600
integrating two sides of the 
same equation and experiencing 

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00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,480
that in your life, I'd say those
were the most fundamental 

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00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:59,120
experiences that that helped 
shape my leadership style. 

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00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,680
Interested. 
You know, looking at your 

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00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:07,800
background, you come from Turkey
and I would say you guys tend to

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00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:14,440
have more of that collective 
culture, you know, that is 

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00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,960
similar to what we have in 
Africa, right? 

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00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:22,600
And when I also tried to mirror 
your journey, I'm an African who

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00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,400
moved into the Western world, 
and what were you talking about 

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00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:30,000
actually resulted in a culture 
shock for me. 

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00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:34,280
That is looking at how 
individualistic the Western 

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world is versus how collective 
our culture back in African Asia

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is. 
And of course, you know, like 

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you rightly said, there's no 
right way. 

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There's no wrong way, right and 
achieving that balance. 

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So how do you achieve that 
balance, you know, depending on 

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where you go to? 
And how do you still make people

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00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:06,480
see you as being authentic, That
is, you know, leaving that 

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00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:11,080
collective culture that you grew
up with, but also adapting, you 

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00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:15,120
know, optimal ways of getting 
things from the individualistic 

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culture. 
So how do you achieve that? 

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00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,440
You know, balance based on 
context? 

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00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,280
Yeah. 
You know, I've always believed 

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00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:27,480
in internalizing certain 
concepts, internalizing ways of 

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00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,120
being in such a way that if 
you've internalized this 

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00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:35,320
integration within your way of 
being and just be authentic, 

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then you're able to connect with
either culture. 

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So for example, by the way, for 
me to internalize something, for

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00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:47,440
anyone to internalize a value or
a concept, it has to make sense 

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00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:49,600
to you, right? 
So you have to reflect on what 

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00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,920
makes sense in the 
individualistic society. 

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00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:57,200
And that is one example is being
achievement oriented. 

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00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:01,120
That's wonderful and believing 
that you have a lot more in your

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00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:06,200
power to achieve what you're 
looking for than you think. 

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00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:10,240
So pushing the limits, trying 
that, having time to yourself, 

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having your privacy, those are 
things all of us need. 

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00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,520
And so therefore, you know, that
makes sense. 

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And I feel I need all of those. 
Those are good for me. 

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So I internalize that and I try 
to live those concepts in my 

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00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,240
everyday life. 
Then you turn to the 

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00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,400
collectivist society. 
I come from a large family of a 

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00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:34,600
lot of great friends. 
And you know, I really enjoy 

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00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,880
when I'm connecting with them, 
when I, when I share experiences

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00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,720
with them, when I share joys, 
when I share sorrows. 

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00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,840
That human connection comes 
through the collectivist 

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00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,240
society. 
So you then say to yourself, 

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00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,520
yes, all of those that I've 
mentioned in the individualistic

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00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,800
society are great, but I also 
have to, this also makes sense. 

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00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:59,960
I also have to internalize the 
fact that those are also good 

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for me. 
I cannot live without them. 

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00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,640
So therefore, I have to live 
that as well. 

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00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:08,680
Now, now that you have these 
beliefs and ways of being, 

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00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,480
obviously you have to be aware 
of your environment, what makes 

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00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,600
sense, you know, to bring out 
what doesn't make sense, to 

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00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:21,680
bring out and try to adapt to 
those environments in the best 

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00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:23,920
way. 
But let me tell you this, you 

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00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:27,400
know, we're all human beings. 
Even in an individualistic 

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society, a human connection is 
valued very much. 

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00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:35,080
So if you have that in you and 
where it is sort of appropriate,

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00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,520
then you activate that. 
That works. 

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That's a collectivist society 
feature, predominantly 

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00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,760
collectivist society sort of 
theme, let's say. 

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But that doesn't mean that it 
won't work in individualistic 

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societies. 
The other way around is 

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00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,240
sometimes could be difficult, 
but not every society is 

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00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,160
homogeneous either. 
In each society you have people 

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who are more, you know, inclined
towards this side or the other. 

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00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,200
But if you have convinced 
yourself that this is very 

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00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:05,520
human, aspects of both societies
are very human. 

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We have just gone different ways
in living those human realities.

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00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:16,400
And if you sort of accept that, 
make it your own, live it in an 

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00:11:16,680 --> 00:11:22,480
context appropriate way, then I 
find that it generally works. 

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00:11:22,560 --> 00:11:25,840
Interesting. 
You know you've been able to 

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00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:31,120
lead teams across different 
regions, you know, Eurasia, 

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00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:36,400
Africa, but what are the 
leadership lessons that silly 

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00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:40,160
with you today for managing 
teams across different cultures 

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00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:44,000
and different socio economic 
realities? 

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00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,320
You know, something that I've 
realized fairly quickly is, you 

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00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,560
know, as the number of countries
that I was responsible for, I 

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00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:52,920
was increasing. 
If you take an approach of 

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saying, OK, what's the specific 
culture in this country and how 

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00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,280
do I adapt for that? 
I figured that's not the right 

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00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:03,520
way to approach leadership. 
A better way to approach is 

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00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:07,080
we're all human beings. 
The first question is what are 

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00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:11,880
those common values, common 
principles that work regardless 

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00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,080
of where you are? 
And you'd be surprised that 

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00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,040
you'd find a lot of those 
values. 

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00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,600
Then you could say, OK, I'm 
going to South Africa. 

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00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:24,640
Yes, be aware of some of the 
cultural aspects there that you 

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00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:26,520
sort of enrich your approach 
with that. 

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00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:30,120
But the, the foundation of your 
approach is what's common to all

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00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,640
of us. 
I used to call this common 

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00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,960
currency of humanity. 
These are invisible current. 

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00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,720
This is an invisible currency. 
So what is an example? 

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00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:46,200
You know, if I show genuine 
interest in you as a person in a

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00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,600
conversation, or if I 
demonstrate care in what we're 

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00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:53,240
doing together, you would that 
that currency would sort of 

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00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,920
transmit to you. 
You're going to engage 

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00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,520
differently. 
And that works everywhere if I 

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00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,920
demonstrate genuine respect for 
you, whoever you are. 

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00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,920
That currency works if I 
recognize you for what you've 

196
00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,680
done well. 
That works everywhere if you 

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00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:15,960
didn't do something too well, if
I sort of carefully share that 

198
00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,320
with you. 
Anniversary of independence. 

199
00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:22,920
We wondered about a game plan 
for the country's future, so 

200
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:27,160
Hall of Fame basketball coach 
Mike Schefsky drew one up. 

201
00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,760
For us. 
To build a championship culture,

202
00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,960
you need talent and character. 
You then developed the values of

203
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,760
that culture. 
The best teams have the best 

204
00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,440
values. 
We had 7 Integrity. 

205
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:44,240
Do the right thing. 
Respect everyone is important. 

206
00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,000
Courage. 
The courage to say or do what 

207
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,720
needs to be said or done in that
moment. 

208
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:55,440
Selfless service, loyalty, duty,
the dignity of work and trust. 

209
00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,440
Values based organizations stand
the test of time. 

210
00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:05,480
Our country has great talent and
for 250 years we have proven 

211
00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,040
that we stand unshaken by the 
tests of history. 

212
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:14,040
Moving into the future, we must 
continue to teach, celebrate and

213
00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:18,960
most importantly, live the 
values that have made America 

214
00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,840
the best country in the world. 
Well, said Mike Schefsky. 

215
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,880
Many leaders actually struggle 
when they come from technical 

216
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:31,440
activity into global leadership.
So what skills did you have to 

217
00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:36,600
unlearn and relearn when you 
stepped into the executive 

218
00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,200
roles? 
Well, I transitioned to general 

219
00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,160
management, let's say from a 
financial role. 

220
00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:51,960
Interesting. 
So as a CFOI was, you know, my 

221
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:57,080
character is also very much a 
control oriented character and 

222
00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,160
at the base of it. 
So as a when you're in charge of

223
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:06,080
money, I used to travel around. 
This was E midden EI used to 

224
00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,280
travel around with a bag this 
big. 

225
00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,920
Why? 
Because I had, you know, every 

226
00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:13,840
number with me that you can 
imagine. 

227
00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,960
If I had a question or if 
somebody asked me a question, I 

228
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,680
wanted to be on top of 
everything as a CFO. 

229
00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:25,680
Exactly. 
So when I first got my, and at 

230
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:30,000
that time Internet wasn't as 
pervasive and I would say during

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that time was the first time we 
got introduced to the idea of 

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e-mail, you know, that was like 
mid 90s in the in the company 

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environment. 
So that was the technology of 

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the time. 
So I was walking around with 

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this huge bag. 
When I got promoted to the 

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general management role, I said,
well, if I aim to be on top of 

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everything all the time, there's
no way I could do this job. 

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00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,920
So it's not just finance, 
there's all these other 

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functions. 
So I decided to reinvent myself 

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and it was more. 
That's when the people issue 

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00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:11,600
became even more pronounced 
because you really have to trust

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00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,640
your team. 
You have to nurture a a great 

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00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:20,280
working relationship with your 
team members individually as 

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well as as a team. 
So if I can, if I had a good 

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00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,440
team and if I trusted in them, 
think I don't think I have to 

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00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,600
walk around with a suitcase of 
information. 

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So that was the first thing I 
changed, and I have sort of 

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00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:41,360
shifted my focus from doing the 
functional work into more trying

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00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,960
to understand, you know, what's 
involved in that general 

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00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,800
management role. 
Then I discovered things like 

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when there is a difficult time, 
you sort of have to be there 

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00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,920
with the people, like we had an 
earthquake, for example. 

253
00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:58,600
And then you have to genuinely 
authentically participate in it.

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00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,920
Sometimes as a worker, you know,
we set up tents and stuff like 

255
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,920
that, but also during these 
times, people would look to you 

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00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:12,560
for sort of a, a constructive 
vision for, for, for hope in a 

257
00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:16,000
realistic way. 
So that means that leadership 

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00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,720
will make you turn inwards even 
more because if you don't feel 

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00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,960
that, if you don't feel that 
there's a better future out 

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00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,720
there, you won't be able to 
convince your team to that. 

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00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,720
But if you maintain your 
realistic but constructive 

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00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,480
attitude towards what can be 
achieved and stretch yourself, 

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00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,800
be willing to do that yourself. 
So I didn't experience that as 

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00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,680
ACFO so much. 
But as I moved into general 

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00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:48,640
management, I started learning 
that those are traits that are 

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00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,880
very important for you to 
succeed in a leadership role. 

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00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:58,840
So and then sort of, you know, 
you're not expect, you may think

268
00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,160
because you're in a leadership 
position that you should know 

269
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,080
everything, but you will never 
know everything. 

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00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,800
And being at ease with that, 
being at peace with that idea 

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00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,440
helps also. 
And so those were some of the 

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00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:11,840
things, Adam. 
Before we dive back into today's

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00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,640
conversation, I want to share 
something important. 

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00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,440
This episode includes a paid 
partnership with Better Health, 

275
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,560
a platform designed to make 
starting therapy easier. 

276
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,240
I know from my own journey as a 
leader and entrepreneur that 

277
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,600
life can sometimes feel 
overwhelming. 

278
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:33,080
There are seasons where stress, 
uncertainty, and pressure build 

279
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,320
up, and you need a safe space to
process it all. 

280
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:41,400
That's where therapy comes in. 
Therapy isn't only for people 

281
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:46,680
facing clinical challenges. 
It's a space to reflect, grow, 

282
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:51,360
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stress, relationships, and 

283
00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:55,600
personal goals. 
It takes courage to seek help, 

284
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but it's also one of the 
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285
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,080
make in your mental and 
emotional well-being. 

286
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,720
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287
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291
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292
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293
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294
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295
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296
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297
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299
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That's betterhub.com/kingdames 
to get 10% off your first month 

300
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of therapy. 
Once again, this is a paid 

301
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,080
partnership with Betterhelp and 
I encourage you to take that 

302
00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,480
first step. 
If you've been thinking about 

303
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:09,520
it, sometimes the best 
investment you can make these in

304
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,360
yourself. 
Interesting, interesting, but 

305
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:16,120
you know, that's quite 
interesting to have a guest like

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00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:21,920
yourself who who addresses both 
sides of the population that we 

307
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,600
cater to. 
So we have diary of a CFO and of

308
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,800
course, who better that, you 
know, an extra calculus CFO to 

309
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:31,600
address that side. 
And of course, you know, you 

310
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:36,720
have a King James podcast, which
is aimed at mindset, AI, 

311
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,960
leadership, business insights, 
right? 

312
00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:42,120
And of course, you're also an 
amazing individual to address 

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00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:46,880
that side of the audience. 
Now it's interesting to see the 

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00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:52,760
evolution from CFO to CEO, you 
know, among individuals, you 

315
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,760
know, as CFOs, we tend to, you 
know, be primarily concerned 

316
00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:00,520
about the numbers. 
But when you make that move to 

317
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:05,360
CEO, you a lot of people are met
with a weird awakening that it's

318
00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:08,160
not just about the numbers, but 
also about the people. 

319
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,800
So when you were president of 
Coca-Cola International, you 

320
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,200
were actually responsible for 
markets with billions of 

321
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:19,280
customers, right? 
So how do leaders make high 

322
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:24,520
stakes decisions when the scale 
of impact is so enormous? 

323
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,000
Yes. 
You know, decision making is 

324
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:31,680
both an art and a science, and 
the greater the stakes, the more

325
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:36,080
the art side comes into play. 
So one of the things my father 

326
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:41,280
had taught me was Sonny said 
there's a process to decision 

327
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,080
making. 
In other words, you have to 

328
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:47,640
think about how you're going to 
decide before you decide. 

329
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:49,680
I think that was a very 
important learning. 

330
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:54,600
You have to decide how you're 
going to decide, and sometimes 

331
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:58,680
in that how you have very 
rational exercises. 

332
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:05,680
So you have analysis or you have
research, or you say, OK, what 

333
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,480
are my options? 
What are the pros and cons of 

334
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,680
each option? 
A very cerebral process, very 

335
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,720
rational process. 
But that's the science part. 

336
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,400
There's also the art part. 
It's what you feel. 

337
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,920
Maybe it's in your gut feel. 
It's deciding who would be the 

338
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,880
right person to talk about this.
You know, reaching out to your 

339
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:30,080
network, knowing who to ask, 
knowing, knowing what to ask. 

340
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,000
These are more the art part of 
decision making. 

341
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,040
And each decision requires a 
different mix. 

342
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:41,040
And at the end of the day, 
you're never sure whether you've

343
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,920
made the right decision because 
you know, if you haven't made 

344
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,680
that, you don't know if you 
haven't made that decision, what

345
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,000
would have happened. 
So you will never know that, you

346
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,240
know what happens once you make 
that decision and you say, OK, 

347
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,600
it looks good. 
It's, it looks like I've made 

348
00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,320
the right decision. 
But sometime down the road, you 

349
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,600
might recognize an unintended 
consequence of your decision and

350
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,520
say, oh, I wonder if it, if I 
did the right thing. 

351
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,200
So it's decision making is 
something like that. 

352
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,640
It's art and science. 
And if you try to be absolutely 

353
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:16,000
sure about whether you've done 
the right decision, if you, if 

354
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:20,280
you occupy yourself on being 
perfect on making that decision,

355
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,040
then you don't make a good 
decision necessarily. 

356
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,720
But it is important to be 
thoughtful about it. 

357
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:30,800
It's important to be used both 
your rational side and your gut 

358
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,920
feel and your the people around 
you who might help you. 

359
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:38,160
There's a very nice Turkish 
saying that maybe summarizes 

360
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,600
this. 
It says, you know, talk with a 

361
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:48,040
lot of people, think with few, 
decide for yourself, decide 

362
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,240
yourself basically not for 
yourself. 

363
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:56,840
So I always found that very 
useful, very helpful, because 

364
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,200
once you allow, of course, that 
assumes, you know, the decision 

365
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,720
that you have to make has a 
certain time. 

366
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:04,800
Like it's not, you don't have to
make it today. 

367
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:11,720
If you have time, it's good to 
let it extend over this time, 

368
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,760
and through this process you 
start discovering things that 

369
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,240
you otherwise might not have by 
following this kind of a an 

370
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:20,920
approach. 
Interesting. 

371
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,720
You know, something I've 
realized over time is the best 

372
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,480
decisions I've never made in a 
hurry. 

373
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:30,480
So it's it's always good to 
yeah, yeah, think before you act

374
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,200
right. 
But what, what frameworks would 

375
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:37,880
you say have actually helped you
to balance short term business 

376
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,160
results with long term market 
growth? 

377
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,680
You know, you always look for 
first of all, you have to accept

378
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:49,440
that, you know, there's always 
short term goals you have to met

379
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,360
meet and there's also long term 
goals. 

380
00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:56,080
In other words, you can't be too
idealistic and say, oh, I'll 

381
00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:01,600
never make a decision that helps
me in the short term but hurts 

382
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,360
me in the long term. 
Of course, if you could, that's 

383
00:25:04,360 --> 00:25:07,000
wonderful. 
But I try to look at making 

384
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,800
those short term decisions in a 
way that they contribute to the 

385
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,120
longer term where possible. 
And then the important thing 

386
00:25:14,120 --> 00:25:18,840
though, is to run your business 
in such a way that short term 

387
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,480
crises, short term surprises are
minimized. 

388
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:27,160
This means you've established 
system structures, cultures, 

389
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,440
people, a good planning 
discipline. 

390
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:34,200
So all of these in a well run 
company, excluding like external

391
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,680
shocks that you that is not in 
your control. 

392
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:42,320
If you have your house in order,
you already minimize the sort of

393
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,320
disruptive short term actions 
you have to take. 

394
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,320
But then there would still be 
short term goals. 

395
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,600
To the extent that you can set 
them in a way that they 

396
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,360
contribute to the achievement of
your longer term goals. 

397
00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:57,240
That's the ideal. 
You try to do that the best you 

398
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:01,320
can. 
So, Luchenbach, was there any 

399
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:06,560
difficult decision that taught 
you a lot about leadership and 

400
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,120
responsibility? 
Yeah, there were certain 

401
00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:12,520
organizational decisions and 
people decisions. 

402
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,480
Those are the harder ones and, 
and sometimes also commercial 

403
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:21,280
decisions that taught me a lot. 
And I think what what what these

404
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:25,800
decisions teach you mostly is 
you really have to believe in 

405
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,760
your believe the rightness of 
your position in what you're 

406
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,400
doing. 
Because when in these decisions 

407
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,880
you have a lot of objections or 
a lot of criticism and all of 

408
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:38,800
that. 
If you really believe in what 

409
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,920
you're doing, you have to hold 
your ground, not as a stubborn 

410
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:47,520
person, but more as one that 
continues to explain why that's 

411
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:52,400
the right thing, continue to win
people over about why that's the

412
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,000
right thing. 
And if you have the belief and 

413
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,880
inner strength in youth, then 
you can do that. 

414
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:04,040
If you are easily swayed by 
external pressures or external 

415
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:08,080
criticisms and stuff like that, 
then you're not going to make 

416
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:09,800
the right decisions. 
Interesting. 

417
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:14,560
So Speaking of right decisions, 
right, you actually spent a lot 

418
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:19,440
of time in your career leading 
growth in emerging markets like 

419
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:24,400
India, like Turkey, like Africa.
A lot of people complain about 

420
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:29,880
emerging markets saying they are
full of challenges, but I see 

421
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:31,760
that they are full of 
opportunities. 

422
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:37,040
So what did you learn about, you
know, taking on these challenges

423
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:41,080
and also what I see harness and 
the opportunities that exist in 

424
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,200
this emerging markets? 
Yeah. 

425
00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:47,760
And I'm with you. 
You know they are full of 

426
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,440
opportunities. 
There are opportunities in 

427
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,200
developed markets as well, but 
the opportunities in emerging 

428
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:56,040
markets are from a business 
growth standpoint are probably 

429
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,160
even greater. 
I think the key would be your 

430
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,440
time horizon because the 
emerging markets can go through 

431
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,200
a lot of volatility, ups and 
downs. 

432
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:12,760
So if you view these markets 
with a longer term mindset, you 

433
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,160
know that there will be ups and 
downs. 

434
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,000
So when the downs come, you 
focus on how to strengthen 

435
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,480
yourself through that downtime 
because that downtime will be 

436
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,480
over. 
And then when it's back into the

437
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,880
normal business, you have built 
yourself more strongly and 

438
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,080
you're better positioned to take
advantage of the opportunities. 

439
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,520
So that's probably the 
fundamental approach to it is to

440
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,400
take the longer term horizon and
look for the downs to make 

441
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,520
yourself better through them. 
Interesting. 

442
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:47,160
So for the founders and the CE 
OS that are listening today, 

443
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,360
what are the biggest mistakes 
that companies make when 

444
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,040
expanding internationally? 
What What are the biggest 

445
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,320
mistakes that companies make 
when making global expansion? 

446
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:03,520
Yeah, a common pitfall is let's 
say you are accustomed to doing 

447
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,520
business in your own country, 
right? 

448
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:10,440
And you sort of think, OK, the 
country where I'm going, the 

449
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,240
same approach by and large would
work. 

450
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,600
For example, you know, you may 
have a distribution system that 

451
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:23,200
works especially well for you in
your home country, but then go 

452
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,320
to another country. 
That may not work as well 

453
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,400
because it may not be the same 
circumstances. 

454
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:34,520
Or the pricing approach, you may
be a, you know, very premium 

455
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,440
brand in your own country, but 
you go to another country, 

456
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,400
nobody knows you and you try to 
start out as a premium that has 

457
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,760
its risks maybe because you, you
know, so it's everything is 

458
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:50,120
about the context and first 
really, really understanding 

459
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,440
what are the critical 
SuccessFactors in the country 

460
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,440
you're going to. 
And that's not easy for that 

461
00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:02,360
many times you need good, 
reliable local partners who sort

462
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,920
of know the market, who are 
honest, you know who you can 

463
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,000
partner with in a productive 
way. 

464
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:13,640
So that will be the biggest 
mistake to avoid, to not assume 

465
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,280
that what has worked for you in 
1-2 or three countries, even 5 

466
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,600
countries will work in the next 
one. 

467
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:26,600
Each one has its own dynamics, 
and each one requires a careful,

468
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:31,680
thoughtful strategy to. 
Interesting, you know, Speaking 

469
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,720
of, you know, local context that
there's something Coca-Cola does

470
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:40,920
in my country, Nigeria, we even 
have our own branded Coca-Cola, 

471
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,960
you know, and Nigerian Fanta as 
well. 

472
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,520
It's interesting how even in 
London, Nigerians still go for 

473
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,480
the Nigerian Coke and the 
Nigerian Fanta because that is 

474
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:57,040
sort of like customized for us. 
Is there, is there, is there a 

475
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,280
treat to it, especially with 
Coca-Cola? 

476
00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:03,960
I go to some countries and then 
I'm like, oh, that is the Coke 

477
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,320
for Turkey. 
That is the Coke for Romania, 

478
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,960
that is the Coke for Belarus. 
But oh, what's up with the 

479
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:14,640
branded and customization of 
Coca-Cola products for certain 

480
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,640
special countries? 
Well, that's getting us into, 

481
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,520
you know, coke business. 
And as you know, I've, I've been

482
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,080
away from that for the last 10 
years. 

483
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,160
So it wouldn't be appropriate 
for me to comment on, you know, 

484
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,480
formulations or anything of that
sort. 

485
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:30,920
OK. 
OK. 

486
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:35,000
But like it's, it's clear you 
guys would do that market 

487
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:39,320
differentiation for certain 
would I say certain markets and 

488
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,240
it seems it seems to be working,
but like in your own view, what 

489
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,480
separates companies that 
successfully globalize from 

490
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,080
those that feel outside of their
home markets? 

491
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,360
What's what's the 
differentiating factor? 

492
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,440
Yeah. 
I guess you know, every 

493
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:59,120
products, every brand has, you 
know what appeals maybe more 

494
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:04,360
universally and then what will 
have to be adjusted locally. 

495
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,840
Sometimes a certain product may 
just work universally and and 

496
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:10,560
that's great. 
You don't have to adjust 

497
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,080
anything. 
But let's say you know, you 

498
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:17,400
know, some countries, you know, 
orange juice consumption may be 

499
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,760
so big that it's so relevant in 
some others, it may be apples, 

500
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,800
you know, depending on what your
product is, what your brand 

501
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,960
stands for, it's always finding 
that right mix of, you know, 

502
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,640
where something is universally 
relevant. 

503
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,680
That's great. 
That means you don't have to 

504
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,400
spend time and money to I try to
localize it. 

505
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,920
But if that doesn't work, you'll
have to do to do that. 

506
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:47,880
So each product, each brand will
have to be find their own unique

507
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,560
mix for that. 
Interesting for their market 

508
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,560
feeds. 
Let's talk about leadership, you

509
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:58,360
know, and mentorship because 
after your corporate career, you

510
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,200
transitioned into advisory and 
board role. 

511
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:07,320
So how does leadership change 
when the role moves from being 

512
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:12,120
an operator to being an advisor?
Yeah, You know, and I've also 

513
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:16,800
had some, you know, formal board
roles and the advisory roles. 

514
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:22,200
You know, the key there is to 
sort of shake off your mental 

515
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,480
habits of being an operating 
person. 

516
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,880
When you're an operating person,
your mind is shaped in a certain

517
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,760
way, you're operating. 
But when you're in a board role,

518
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,560
you're governing, you're not 
operating and that has its own 

519
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:38,400
dynamics. 
You have your fellow board 

520
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,600
members who participate in that 
governance, you have certain 

521
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,120
rules and regulations you adhere
to etcetera. 

522
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:50,880
And you know you have more of a 
long term strategic stewardship 

523
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,120
oversight, let's say, not 
stewardship and oversight 

524
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,520
responsibility and looking at 
risks over the long terms. 

525
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:01,200
It's that kind of focus in the 
board roles, and you just have 

526
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,680
to keep in check your previous 
operational experience to a 

527
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:10,639
point that you're not intruding,
you're not creating a sense of 

528
00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:14,960
mistrust or intruding 
unnecessarily into management's 

529
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:16,920
work. 
Once you do that, and then of 

530
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,600
course the other changes, you 
know, when you're operating, 

531
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,360
you're always on top of all the 
issues, right? 

532
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,159
But then when you're in these 
board roles, you come in and out

533
00:34:25,159 --> 00:34:27,320
maybe every three months, every 
four months. 

534
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,719
So it is important that when you
sort of jump in, you're well 

535
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,639
prepared and that you can play 
your role in the best way. 

536
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,440
So that preparation is also very
important. 

537
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,400
Interesting. 
So what do great boards do very 

538
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,000
well that every boards fail to 
do? 

539
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,239
Yeah, I don't know. 
I mean, I have been in probably,

540
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,239
I don't know how many, 8 or 9 
maybe. 

541
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:54,639
But so it's it's hard for me to 
generalize, but what makes sense

542
00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:59,880
to me is do you have a sort of a
good complementary set of skills

543
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,840
for the task at hand? 
So for example, you know, do you

544
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,680
have somebody with a technology 
or AI background, today's world,

545
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,600
right? 
Or do you have someone with a 

546
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,280
people focus? 
Do you have someone with 

547
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,080
expertise in the business 
itself, deep expertise. 

548
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,240
So I think that that formation 
is, is that you have 

549
00:35:19,240 --> 00:35:24,200
complementary set of experiences
in the board and then you know, 

550
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,720
the culture and the environment 
of the board is very important. 

551
00:35:27,720 --> 00:35:30,320
Is there participation from all 
members? 

552
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,680
Is everybody able to contribute 
to what they can? 

553
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:39,880
And you know, is there like a 
healthy mix of both harmony in 

554
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,160
the board, but at the same time 
healthy differences of opinion 

555
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:47,120
and discussions about them? 
So it's those kinds of cultural 

556
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,480
elements are also important in 
addition to the complementary 

557
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,480
experiences. 
And then there's a bit of 

558
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,480
discipline in how the board is 
run, right. 

559
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,400
It's not you don't get your 
board materials day before the 

560
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,320
next meeting and there is good 
follow up and and all of those 

561
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,320
things. 
So those are the things that 

562
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,400
come to mind that make things 
work. 

563
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,520
And in some cases, you know, the
discipline may not be there. 

564
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:15,480
In some cases, maybe, you know, 
it's not run in a way, it's run 

565
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,600
in such a way that only few 
people always talk and the 

566
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,320
others listen. 
So now I'm not saying people 

567
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,720
have to say something because 
they have to say something. 

568
00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:29,240
No, but it's the dynamic of is 
there as wide a participation as

569
00:36:29,240 --> 00:36:31,360
possible. 
So that, that kind of thing, I 

570
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,640
think that makes the boards 
effective. 

571
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:38,800
Interesting, So if you actually 
mentor many leaders today, what 

572
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:43,720
common mindset barriers prevent 
talented professionals from 

573
00:36:43,720 --> 00:36:48,360
reaching their full potentials? 
It's really hard because in our 

574
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:52,880
world today, everybody works 
long hours just to keep up with 

575
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:57,080
what's going on. 
And it takes a certain kind to 

576
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,840
be able to step back from all of
that and take a look at 

577
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,680
themselves, take a look at 
business from a distance and 

578
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:09,880
have a good conversation about 
what's holding us back and what 

579
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:14,040
you know, and that it's not so 
much the mindset. 

580
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,120
I, I find people to be open 
quite, you know, they, they're 

581
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:21,320
willing to listen, but just the 
pressures of every day makes it 

582
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,760
very hard for them to be able to
step back and, and look at 

583
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:26,960
things with a cool mind. 
And that's hard. 

584
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,080
That's hard. 
Now you may say that's because 

585
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:34,560
the leader isn't able to 
delegate properly because they 

586
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,120
now miss the time for 
themselves. 

587
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,200
And that's probably true that 
maybe that's the mindset 

588
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,120
question. 
You know, as I think about it, 

589
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:47,960
that try to set your work up in 
such a way that like you're not 

590
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,680
so swamped and you're like 
you're accessible. 

591
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,040
You're able to have time to 
think for yourself, think, you 

592
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:59,120
know, have self reflection time.
It's those kinds of factors, I 

593
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,880
think that allow people to to 
grow. 

594
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,520
Then you can also have your 
classical things like I know 

595
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,640
everything, right? 
No, that's not the way to do it.

596
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,560
Not being open to other views. 
And there's not a black and 

597
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,960
white answer on that because 
sometimes you are right, 

598
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,680
Sometimes you know, you can't, 
you shouldn't listen too much. 

599
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,440
Sometimes you have to. 
So it's it's a balance you have 

600
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,000
to find. 
But but if you sort of if you're

601
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,840
wrapped up in everyday business 
going on, you never have a 

602
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,680
chance to step back from 
yourself and reconsider those, 

603
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,680
that's where the problem. 
You know activity doesn't 

604
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:32,800
necessarily generate 
productivity. 

605
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:38,760
Let's talk about your book. 
You know the philosophy of Soul 

606
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:40,760
Tree. 
Amelia wanted to host a webinar,

607
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,760
but the tool couldn't deliver. 
Zooming out, she turned to 

608
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,080
Webinar Key, an expert solution 
for webinars. 

609
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,680
With seamless setup and 
intuitive design, she delivered 

610
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:53,520
the perfect webinar. 
Webinar host webinars like a 

611
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:57,520
boss. 
That book introduces the idea of

612
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,840
doing a kind of self surgery on 
our thoughts and emotions. 

613
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,200
What inspired you to develop 
these? 

614
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,360
Frameworks. 
So when it was time to move to 

615
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,760
to my next chapter, I gave a lot
of serious thought to what I 

616
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,400
should do next. 
Sort of what might have seemed 

617
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,920
natural is, well, go on and 
either work as an executive 

618
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,000
again or just participate in a 
number of boards. 

619
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,080
But I wanted to share what I 
learned from my experiences in 

620
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:31,640
the interest of developing 
better leadership as I saw it. 

621
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,000
So I decided, you know, the a 
good way was to sort of capture 

622
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,280
my thoughts somewhere in a book 
and then maybe I can publish 

623
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,000
that book at some stage, which I
did. 

624
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,600
But an interesting thing 
happened in that process. 

625
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:53,080
I've always believed that for me
to be a better leader of others,

626
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,640
I have to become a better leader
of myself. 

627
00:39:55,640 --> 00:40:01,520
And when I step, when I realized
that's, that's been my approach 

628
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,120
to leadership. 
So if I'm going to write 

629
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:07,520
anything, I'm not a scientific 
person, you know, I'm not a, 

630
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:09,120
this is not based on any 
science. 

631
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,920
It's based on my experience. 
If it's going to be based on my 

632
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:15,520
experience, then it has to honor
that principle. 

633
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,560
Leading yourself better before 
you lead others better. 

634
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:25,120
So but then when I dove into 
that subject, self leadership. 

635
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:31,040
I found myself in really the 
realm of what's growing as a 

636
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:35,480
human being, you know, because 
if I'm going to lead myself, 

637
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,360
what am I going to lead myself 
towards? 

638
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,880
What is it for? 
What's my end goal in leading 

639
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:42,800
myself? 
If you're leading a company, 

640
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,440
your end goal may be to make 
more profits or to add more 

641
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:51,000
value to your stakeholders. 
What's the end goal of leading 

642
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,320
self? 
I decided that was this. 

643
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:59,880
Just like businesses, we also 
have incredible potential of 

644
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,560
what we can accomplish and who 
we can become the kind of person

645
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,320
we can become. 
It's both accomplishments for 

646
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:11,360
the what and the how both. 
So if that's the goal of self 

647
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:15,240
leadership, to discover and 
realize ever more of my better 

648
00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:18,200
self. 
So I found myself in this 

649
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:23,400
concept of working on yourself 
to realize that potential. 

650
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:25,840
And I said, what does that feel 
like, man? 

651
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,640
It looks like it's like you're 
doing self surgery. 

652
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:30,440
You're doing surgery on 
yourself. 

653
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,280
And that's how the name came up,
Self Surgery of the Soul. 

654
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,920
So yeah, it was like a desire to
contribute something in the area

655
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,120
of leadership. 
And if you dig deep into its 

656
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:46,560
foundations, I ended up spending
this time on what I called 

657
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:51,480
initially self leadership. 
But then what in reality was way

658
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:57,240
a framework to continuously 
realize your better self through

659
00:41:57,240 --> 00:41:59,360
life, through your everyday 
life? 

660
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:05,160
OK, many people focus on 
external success, but the 

661
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:10,720
neglect that, you know, growth. 
Why do you think, or why do you 

662
00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:13,680
believe that personal 
transformation is the real 

663
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:18,840
foundation of leadership? 
Because that approach avoids 

664
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:23,840
having to pretend. 
In other words, if my inner self

665
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:28,200
is strong, meaning I can manage 
my emotions, I can decide what 

666
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:32,160
skills to build, I can build 
those skills, I can increase my 

667
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,120
wisdom, I can know more about 
things. 

668
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,440
So, you know, all of that is 
included in your inner self. 

669
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:39,440
I'm including your skills in 
your inner self. 

670
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:43,480
You're building your skills. 
So if those are there and you 

671
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,120
just authentically or you're 
authentically present in all 

672
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:48,880
situations, you don't have to 
pretend. 

673
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,760
That inner self comes out 
naturally if you sort of ignore 

674
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,520
your inner self and just focus 
on what am I going to do today 

675
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,560
in this job or but then, you 
know, your inner self is sort of

676
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,520
struggling there. 
Yeah, maybe you might be able to

677
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:09,400
sort of twist some arms or force
some solutions, but that that is

678
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,400
not sustainable. 
But if you keep building a 

679
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,320
stronger inner self, which I 
include in the book, in that 

680
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:21,600
inner self, your wisdom, your 
character and open heart and 

681
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:25,560
your skills, those are the four 
things, your skills, which 

682
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:29,200
includes your job skills as well
as your soft skills, those will 

683
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,720
naturally come together in your 
job. 

684
00:43:31,720 --> 00:43:35,880
They will come together in your 
role as a family person, like if

685
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:40,880
you're a father or mother or so 
just keep building that inner 

686
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,320
machine. 
Keep building that inner machine

687
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:47,040
and reflect them through your 
roles in an authentic way. 

688
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,560
That's how your performance is 
sustained. 

689
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,520
I'm not guaranteeing success for
two reasons. 

690
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,480
Success may be different to you 
than it is to me. 

691
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,520
It's a relative thing, what you 
consider success. 

692
00:43:59,960 --> 00:44:03,880
But what I'm saying is that you 
can sustain a high performance 

693
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:08,640
through this through on an 
inside out way. 

694
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:10,280
There's a. 
What would you say are the key 

695
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:14,760
mental models that people have 
to master to unlock their true 

696
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:15,720
potential? 
What? 

697
00:44:15,720 --> 00:44:20,440
What are those mental models 
that people have to unlock to 

698
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,920
unlock their true potentials? 
Yeah, and of course, you know, 

699
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:27,880
there is no one right answer on 
these, but what Soldier says is 

700
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,240
being a meaning seeker. 
In other words, if you're in 

701
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:36,960
doing a job, if the only reason,
if the only reason you're doing 

702
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:42,040
this is to earn money or to earn
some status in in the society, 

703
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,880
if that's the only reason that 
gets you only so far. 

704
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,920
But if there is something bigger
than yourself, something 

705
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,040
contribution you're trying to 
makes, you're trying to make 

706
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,560
life better for some people. 
And that doesn't have to be 

707
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,760
grand things. 
But your mindset is about 

708
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,760
contribution, about legacy. 
That doesn't mean you ignore 

709
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,400
your financial goals or other 
personal goals. 

710
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:11,120
You don't ignore them, but you 
put them into the context of the

711
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:15,600
contribution you're making. 
So that's, that's I'd say that's

712
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,680
actually 2 mindsets. 1 is that 
you're seeking some meaning out 

713
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,280
of what you do. 
And the second one is that 

714
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,160
meaning usually comes in the 
form of some sort of a 

715
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:27,960
contribution, some legacy. 
I call this a legacy mindset. 

716
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:32,000
So being a meaning seeker, 
having a legacy mindset, those 

717
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:37,200
are couple of the mental models.
Then how do you engage with 

718
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,120
people at work, at home, in your
society? 

719
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:44,160
You asked earlier about how do 
you engage in different cultures

720
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,200
And I talked about this common 
currency of humanity, those 

721
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,280
common currencies that there are
certain qualities like 

722
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:56,680
integrity, courage, fairness, 
respect, humility that connect 

723
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:58,880
us more closely with one 
another. 

724
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:03,080
If if I approach you with 
respect and humility, and you 

725
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,640
know, you probably will be more 
approachable, you'll probably 

726
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:11,760
engage with me more. 
So the third mindset is to have 

727
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:17,120
that kind of authentic human 
connection, you know, behaving 

728
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,920
with these qualities that 
connect us to one another. 

729
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:25,480
That's the third mindset, 
meaning legacy human connection.

730
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,120
The 4th one I'd say is 
resilience. 

731
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:33,720
All the problems we face, all 
the adversity that finds us when

732
00:46:33,720 --> 00:46:37,320
we're not expecting the most, do
we have the mindset of 

733
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,920
approaching that so that we grow
through them? 

734
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,680
We truly do that. 
And then finally, I'd say if you

735
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:50,920
take these four mental models, 
you can always improve how well 

736
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:55,920
you are acting on these. 
There is no perfection in them. 

737
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:59,080
Sometimes you'll do well, 
sometimes you'll fall. 

738
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,800
How consistently? 
How well? 

739
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:03,960
So let's say take a certain 
human quality. 

740
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:08,000
If I'm connecting with you, how 
deeply am I connecting? 

741
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,160
I can always improve on that. 
I can always grow in each one of

742
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,520
them. 
I can connect with my meaning 

743
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:18,000
every minute of my life. 
You know, that's a way out goal.

744
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:22,960
I can apply a growth mindset to 
my challenges certain way. 

745
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:27,000
Now I can improve on that. 
So in all of these 4, you are 

746
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:30,120
constantly growing yourself, 
continuous growth. 

747
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:34,120
That's the 5th mindset. 
So I'd I'd say SOLDIER sort of 

748
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,600
boils down to those seeking 
meaning, having a legacy 

749
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:42,600
mindset, engaging with human 
qualities that connect you to 

750
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,600
other people, finding growth 
opportunities in your 

751
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:50,200
challenges, and then 
continuously growing yourself no

752
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,440
matter where you are in life. 
Those were the five mental 

753
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:59,000
models, I think, that lay a 
robust foundation for growing as

754
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,480
a leader. 
Amazing so where where can 

755
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:05,680
people find the book soldier? 
Is it an Amazon or what other 

756
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:09,480
platforms is it on? 
And can we have the link in the 

757
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:12,760
description? 
Yes, yes. 

758
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:19,000
The book is available in three 
formats, both in print in Kindle

759
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,880
and an audio book. 
An audio book is pretty much in 

760
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:28,040
every platform from Spotify to 
Audible to Storytell. 

761
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:31,640
Whichever country your audience 
is in, they can look it up as an

762
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:33,680
audio book. 
They can download the Kindle and

763
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:39,080
they can purchase the print book
through Amazon and many of the 

764
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,120
other US retailers and they can 
also. 

765
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:45,440
What I would recommend to them 
is this before they buy the 

766
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:47,520
book. 
Now, if they listen to this 

767
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:49,400
podcast, that is. 
I really want to buy the book. 

768
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:53,040
OK, go ahead and buy the book. 
But if you're not sure, go to 

769
00:48:53,040 --> 00:49:01,600
the website whichissoldry.com, 
vw.soldrysoulgery.com and sort 

770
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:03,560
of surf that website a little 
bit. 

771
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:07,880
Try to read some of the things. 
Try to look at the Soldry model 

772
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,160
and see how it does approach 
growth and all of that. 

773
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:15,720
Then they can, from there, they 
can Click to the in the book 

774
00:49:15,720 --> 00:49:18,960
page, whichever retailer they're
going to buy it from, they can 

775
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:21,800
go there. 
Also, they can follow me on 

776
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:26,160
LinkedIn with my name and I 
engage, you know, I share short 

777
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,280
videos every week. 
They can, when they're in the 

778
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,560
website, they can join my 
newsletter. 

779
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:35,400
I'm sending monthly newsletters 
on how to live soldry so there's

780
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:39,480
all these ways they can engage 
with soldry, including buying 

781
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:40,920
the book. 
Amazing, amazing. 

782
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:44,600
I will definitely have that in 
the description section. 

783
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:48,400
So let's talk about the future 
of leadership and of course, 

784
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:52,600
human potential. 
Having worked across corporate 

785
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:57,160
leadership, philanthropy and 
education, what gives you the 

786
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,560
most hope about the next 
generation of leaders? 

787
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:04,360
Well, I'm always, you know, I'm 
not one of the kinds who enjoy 

788
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,760
conversations when people say 
things are so bad and oh, we're 

789
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:11,640
done. 
You know, life will always serve

790
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:13,760
us. 
Life will always serve us, you 

791
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:17,000
know, disruptive things as well 
as opportunities. 

792
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,080
There will always be adversity, 
unexpected challenges. 

793
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:25,240
My view is this will never end. 
And we have to focus on what we 

794
00:50:25,240 --> 00:50:27,800
can produce, what we can make 
happen. 

795
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:31,040
On the on the more positive 
side, I'm quite one of the 

796
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,840
things that's very encouraging 
for me is that as I was 

797
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:37,800
socializing the book, I get 
feedback from many saying this 

798
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,600
is what this new generation is 
looking for, They're seeking. 

799
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:44,320
And if that's true, which I find
that it's true in many cases, 

800
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:49,080
that's very encouraging because 
that means people want to have a

801
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:52,760
sense of meaning, a purpose, and
they want to integrate their 

802
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:56,880
lives behind that purpose. 
That's a wonderful awakening. 

803
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:58,800
We didn't have that when I was 
young. 

804
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:02,160
We were pretty much like, OK, 
you're going to graduate from 

805
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,480
college and you're going to get 
a job and you'll get married. 

806
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:09,360
And it was like a pretty much 
laid road map for us. 

807
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,360
And we follow that. 
But this generation is asking 

808
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:13,960
for meaning. 
They're questioning things. 

809
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:17,320
I think that's very encouraging.
I'm also quite encouraged about 

810
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:21,200
what AI can do for humanity. 
Now, I do have to say this will 

811
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:25,080
be a very, very disruptive 
period, you know, and because AI

812
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:29,680
can be an incredible enabler of 
realizing our potential, but at 

813
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:33,720
the same time, it can be the 
reason why we shrink. 

814
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:38,800
And it is up to the individual 
and it is up to how it's 

815
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:42,080
governed. 
Both of these factors on the 

816
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:47,120
individual side, if you use it 
in a lazy way, I'm going to let 

817
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:51,120
AI do my work for me, you will 
find yourself on the shrinking 

818
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:54,320
path. 
But if you use the harder 

819
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:58,120
working way to, to create a 
better version of yourself by 

820
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:02,440
using AI, using it as a mirror 
to yourself, and yes, getting 

821
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,760
rid of low value work that 
you're doing, but really 

822
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:09,400
focusing on high value work, 
which will always be there as 

823
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:16,520
long as humans exist. 
So, so in a in a way, I'm very 

824
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:21,480
encouraged by what AI can do, 
but I also have to say that some

825
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:25,640
of its risks are inevitable job 
displacements and losses and how

826
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,520
people will adapt to that, how 
governance will deal with that. 

827
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:33,760
Those are unknowns. 
So yeah, those give me both the 

828
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,040
hope and the caution for the 
future. 

829
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:40,000
And she said, so Speaking of AI,
how should companies rethink 

830
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:45,400
leadership development in a 
world that is shaped by by, you 

831
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:49,960
know, the rapid changes and 
global increasing global 

832
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:52,160
complexity? 
How? 

833
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:53,920
How should companies retain 
leadership? 

834
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:57,600
Yeah, I think a couple of 
mindsets become very important 

835
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:03,360
in my view. 1 is, is the mindset
of how AI will make us better as

836
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:07,200
an organization that you're 
really committed to walking that

837
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:11,360
path, not sort of overly 
protective trying to protect 

838
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:15,600
your organization, but really a 
more constructive, more creative

839
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:20,120
approach with what AI can do. 
Second one is a more holistic 

840
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:24,080
systems thinking type of view 
that becomes very important. 

841
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:28,720
So you should even ask the 
question of with AI, is my 

842
00:53:28,720 --> 00:53:32,560
primary product and service 
still going to be relevant? 

843
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:36,520
Start there. 
Then question, is my business 

844
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:40,280
model the right business model? 
Do I have the right people? 

845
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:42,840
Do I have the right processes, 
everything? 

846
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:45,920
How am I engaging with my 
stakeholders? 

847
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,600
So think about beyond your 
company, think about the 

848
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:51,840
ecosystem in which your company 
exists. 

849
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:56,320
And with that perspective 
evaluates everything from the 

850
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:59,200
beginning and then reinvent 
yourself. 

851
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:04,440
So that's the second mindset, A 
systemic view where you question

852
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:09,920
every existential question about
your company and be willing to 

853
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:15,640
take the risks and the actions 
to evolve it so that it thrives 

854
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:18,800
in an AI world. 
I know these are easier said 

855
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:22,680
than done, but it's this kind of
people, this kind of mindset 

856
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:29,280
that will decide how people will
leverage the AI capability that 

857
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:33,520
we're being served. 
So if you were advising a young 

858
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:38,560
professional starting their 
career today, what capabilities 

859
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:40,120
would you tell them to build 
first? 

860
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:43,480
You know, I'd say ability to 
reinvent themselves. 

861
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:49,640
So I'd say in your life, you 
will probably get involved in 

862
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:52,520
10-15 different things 
throughout your career. 

863
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:56,520
They may be completely different
areas, they may be related, but 

864
00:54:56,520 --> 00:55:00,040
and you will learn, you will 
prove yourself, you will be 

865
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,400
successful and then you'll find 
that you're disrupted. 

866
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:04,640
You're going to have to reinvent
yourself again. 

867
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:09,560
So I'd say that would be my 
number one advice to somebody 

868
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:12,240
going into and they shouldn't be
scared about that. 

869
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:16,560
That's a wonderful muscle to 
build that allows them to lay 

870
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:20,360
stronger roots that they can 
stand on their two feet in life 

871
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:23,920
no matter what happens. 
So the other thing I'd say is it

872
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:27,640
seems, you know, all these 
things about work life balance 

873
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:31,320
and, you know, we're so 
comfortable in many, many ways 

874
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:35,000
in many parts of the societies, 
that's sometimes I, I think, you

875
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:39,280
know, the value of hard work and
sacrifice is slowly being 

876
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:41,680
forgotten. 
Like you have to sacrifice 

877
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:46,440
sometimes from your personal 
life so that especially earlier 

878
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:50,320
on in your career, you have to 
work extremely hard to do that. 

879
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:52,840
And sometimes if you have to 
reinvent yourself, that comes 

880
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:57,160
through and then never to fall 
into the pole of I'm just 

881
00:55:57,160 --> 00:55:59,400
working too hard. 
And, you know, what is this? 

882
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,320
Where is this going to, Oh, I'm 
not, you know, don't complain 

883
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:05,280
about that. 
So that would be another thing. 

884
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:08,360
Yeah. 
OK, amazing, amazing take. 

885
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:11,920
We're getting to the end of the 
podcast and there's something I 

886
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:15,800
always love to say that any time
a person shares the time with 

887
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:17,400
you, they're sharing their life 
with you. 

888
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:20,600
Of course, the SI unit for 
measuring life is time. 

889
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:25,280
So gratitude is good attitude. 
And you know, for me, to you, 

890
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:27,760
it's a very, very big thank you 
for sharing your life and your 

891
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:29,560
time with us on the podcast 
today. 

892
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:34,080
But before you leave, we have a 
tradition of asking the quick 

893
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:36,520
fire round questions. 
That is five quick fire round 

894
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:39,760
questions and of course putting 
you on the hot seed to ask you 

895
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:45,080
two individuals, right. 
So the tradition is you 

896
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:48,360
mentioned one person you are 
going to invite on the forecast 

897
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:51,120
that you invite. 
You mentioned another person you

898
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:53,880
would like for me to invite on 
the forecast. 

899
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:58,360
So would you give me two names, 
one person you invite yourself 

900
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:02,000
or one person for me to invite? 
Why you think about those two 

901
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:03,760
names? 
Maybe we should take you through

902
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:07,040
the quick fire round. 
So that is five questions. 

903
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:09,840
Just give an answer that comes 
to your mind first. 

904
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:14,040
So number one, what is 1 
leadership principle you need by

905
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:16,280
every day? 
What is 1 leadership principle 

906
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:20,000
you need by? 
Every you're yeah, you get your 

907
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:26,000
mind onto the the contribution 
you are going to make in your 

908
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:29,000
area of work that day. 
What are you going to make 

909
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:32,480
better that day. 
So get your mind oriented to 

910
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,800
that. 
Interesting so #2 is what is the

911
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:38,760
best career advice you have ever
received? 

912
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:40,680
Surround yourself with good 
people. 

913
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:45,000
I think that is amazing advice 
#3 what is a book that changed 

914
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:49,480
how you think about leadership? 
Very Young I Was Two books, 7 

915
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:53,520
Habits of Highly Effective 
People by Stephen Covey and The 

916
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:56,440
Effective Executive by Peter 
Drucker. 

917
00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:01,240
Oh wow, interesting. 
Peter Drucker that's that's an 

918
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:05,600
OG of management science. 
Interested, I've read one of 

919
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:08,280
those books that I think I'll 
I'll go grab the second one. 

920
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:13,040
So #4 What is 1 habit that helps
you stay mentally strong and 

921
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:14,680
focused? 
Self reflection. 

922
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,800
Okay, surgery by the surgery 
experts. 

923
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:21,920
And #5 if you could summarize 
your life philosophy in one 

924
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:25,560
sentence, what would it be? 
If you could summarize your life

925
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:27,840
philosophy in one sentence, what
would it be? 

926
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:33,400
So it is keep serving in areas 
where I have the skills. 

927
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:36,600
That's basically what it. 
Is you have the skills, Wow. 

928
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:40,160
Interesting. 
I actually I actually wrote it 

929
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:42,480
down somewhere. 
I don't know if I wrote it down 

930
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:46,200
exactly as this. 
I took time to, if you want to 

931
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:48,800
hold just for a second, I'm 
going to read to you from where 

932
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:49,960
they are. 
It's the same thing. 

933
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:51,600
I just want to be able to say 
it. 

934
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:53,720
I want to see if I said it in a 
different. 

935
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:58,560
So to see, here we go to serve 
with excellence in areas where 

936
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:01,040
my skills can make the most 
meaningful impact. 

937
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:04,160
I think that is brilliant. 
That is absolutely brilliant. 

938
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:09,840
So I hope you wrote the names 
that you would love to see other

939
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:13,520
podcasts. 
Two names, one name you invite 

940
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:17,600
yourself, one name I get invite.
One name comes to mind, but 

941
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:20,840
instead of naming them right 
here, I just want to be 

942
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:24,040
respectful of their privacy and.
OK. 

943
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:29,040
Ask them and introduce you and 
let them come and then I'll find

944
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:31,720
another second name too, so I'll
share those with you. 

945
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:35,120
OK, amazing, amazing. 
Let's let's cover. 

946
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:38,040
Let's cover the name and uncover
the name after. 

947
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:41,160
I think that is an amazing. 
All right, OK. 

948
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:46,280
OK, So if the listeners could 
take only one idea from this 

949
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:50,320
conversation we've had today 
about leadership and unlocking 

950
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:53,440
human potential, what should 
that idea be? 

951
00:59:53,440 --> 01:00:00,680
Never doubt that your potential 
to do better and to be better is

952
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:05,640
greater than you think. 
Oh wow wow, never doubt that. 

953
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:10,520
Your potential to do better and 
to be better the creator that 

954
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:13,800
you think I think that that's 
actually true. 

955
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:17,600
I was telling somebody yesterday
that things are never as good as

956
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:20,480
we think and they're never as 
bad as we think right. 

957
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:22,600
So we need to be open minded 
yeah. 

958
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:27,280
And I think I think this speaks 
to it. 

959
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:31,080
Wow, wow, wow. 
It's it's, it's a very, very big

960
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:37,120
thank you for me to you, your 
man, who is actually, when I say

961
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:39,880
lead many lives and of course 
aligns very much with my 

962
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:43,760
philosophy and of course aligns 
with, you know, the number one 

963
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:46,520
brand in the world for me that I
love. 

964
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:49,880
So many things to love and 
appreciate about you. 

965
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:54,360
So it's thank you very, very 
much for your time today. 

966
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:58,520
Of course, God bless you. 
And of course, to the guys, to 

967
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:02,680
the people who listen to us, 
never forget, all is thank you 

968
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:04,600
very much. 
All is good for something in 

969
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:07,240
your lives. 
Conceive and strive to thrive 

970
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:10,480
and of course, achieve. 
It's like, call me away next 

971
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:13,600
time, guys. 
You know, keep keep winning and 

972
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:16,800
of course, keep subscribing, 
keep sharing the word. 

973
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:20,000
And of course, you know, keep 
helping us grow to that global 

974
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:24,960
top 1%. 
All righty. 

975
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:26,200
Good luck to you on that.