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We are live. Ladies and gentlemen, you'll
once again welcome to the Kingdom's podcast and diary of a
CFO. And today I've got with me
fighting out of Atlanta, GA Mick, welcome.
Ahmed Bozer. Very well.
Wow. What a joyful introduction.
Thank you for that. Doing very well.
Thank you. Thank you for having me on your
show. Amazing, amazing, amazing.
And of course, a seat back. Why?
We'll give you your flowers. Today's episode is a special one
because we're joined by a global Visa speeder whose carriers,
fans, continents, cultures and industries.
Our guest spent more than two decades at the Coca-Cola
Company, where he rose to become president of Coca-Cola
International and group president for Eurasia and
Africa. In that role, he helped oversee
some of the fastest growing markets in the world, including
India, Turkey, the Middle East, and Africa.
Beyond corporate leadership, he has served on multiple global
boards, including Turkish Philanthropy Funds and the
Advisory Board of Georgia State University.
Today, he is focused on something even deeper, unlocking
human potential. He is the author of Soldiery, A
framework built on the idea that growth begins with mastering our
thoughts, emotions, and mental models.
From leading global markets to mentoring readers and developing
a philosophy of personal transformation, this story sits
right at the intersection of leadership, mindset, and impact.
Ahmed, welcome to the Kingdom's podcast.
Thank you once again, Thank you Adam Allah.
You're welcome once again. So let's let's start, you know
from the beginning of your journey, right?
So you've actually spent more than 25 years at Coca-Cola and
essentially LED international operations across multiple
continents. When you reflect on that journey
today, what we are the defining moments that shaped you as a
leader. There are so many, but other
more I'll focus on a couple of them which share a common theme.
That common theme is sort of fusing what's seemingly
different or maybe sometimes opposite experiences into one.
So the most important one for me was being exposed to cultures
that are predominantly individualistic and those
cultures that are predominantly collectivist.
If you plotted all the countries around the world on the
spectrum, everybody would fall into some place.
But but certain characteristics of those cultures would make
them closer to being individualistic cultures where
you are constantly told you can do anything you want if you set
your mind to it. It's all up to you and your
borders are pretty defined. You know nobody will if they try
to breach those borders. That's culturally not
acceptable. Then you have these cultures
that are more collectivist where things like, if I do this, what
would others say? Or I have to sort of deliver on
the expectation of my community or my family of those who are
close to me. So that's you're, you're more
mindful of what the society expects from you.
I think experiencing both of these cultures were fascinating,
and I came to realize that neither one is perfect.
Neither one is the right one. I thought I had to find the best
of both worlds by taking what's best in the individualist
cultures and what's best in the collectivist cultures and and
then live those values yourself in your life to the best of your
ability. This helps me grow as a person,
but it also helps me grow as a leader.
And that was probably one of the sort of, I wouldn't say a
moment, but a defining process that helped me grow as a leader.
The other one was more on the business side, where the
Coca-Cola system is comprised of the Coca-Cola Company itself and
the bottling organizations. Those are separate companies.
And I've had the chance to work in both and in the course of
everyday life, you know, this relationship is very important
to the functioning of the Coca-Cola system.
And having the opportunity to, to be in both also gave me that.
So those two, you know, 2 experiences of fusing or
integrating two sides of the same equation and experiencing
that in your life, I'd say those were the most fundamental
experiences that that helped shape my leadership style.
Interested. You know, looking at your
background, you come from Turkey and I would say you guys tend to
have more of that collective culture, you know, that is
similar to what we have in Africa, right?
And when I also tried to mirror your journey, I'm an African who
moved into the Western world, and what were you talking about
actually resulted in a culture shock for me.
That is looking at how individualistic the Western
world is versus how collective our culture back in African Asia
is. And of course, you know, like
you rightly said, there's no right way.
There's no wrong way, right and achieving that balance.
So how do you achieve that balance, you know, depending on
where you go to? And how do you still make people
see you as being authentic, That is, you know, leaving that
collective culture that you grew up with, but also adapting, you
know, optimal ways of getting things from the individualistic
culture. So how do you achieve that?
You know, balance based on context?
Yeah. You know, I've always believed
in internalizing certain concepts, internalizing ways of
being in such a way that if you've internalized this
integration within your way of being and just be authentic,
then you're able to connect with either culture.
So for example, by the way, for me to internalize something, for
anyone to internalize a value or a concept, it has to make sense
to you, right? So you have to reflect on what
makes sense in the individualistic society.
And that is one example is being achievement oriented.
That's wonderful and believing that you have a lot more in your
power to achieve what you're looking for than you think.
So pushing the limits, trying that, having time to yourself,
having your privacy, those are things all of us need.
And so therefore, you know, that makes sense.
And I feel I need all of those. Those are good for me.
So I internalize that and I try to live those concepts in my
everyday life. Then you turn to the
collectivist society. I come from a large family of a
lot of great friends. And you know, I really enjoy
when I'm connecting with them, when I, when I share experiences
with them, when I share joys, when I share sorrows.
That human connection comes through the collectivist
society. So you then say to yourself,
yes, all of those that I've mentioned in the individualistic
society are great, but I also have to, this also makes sense.
I also have to internalize the fact that those are also good
for me. I cannot live without them.
So therefore, I have to live that as well.
Now, now that you have these beliefs and ways of being,
obviously you have to be aware of your environment, what makes
sense, you know, to bring out what doesn't make sense, to
bring out and try to adapt to those environments in the best
way. But let me tell you this, you
know, we're all human beings. Even in an individualistic
society, a human connection is valued very much.
So if you have that in you and where it is sort of appropriate,
then you activate that. That works.
That's a collectivist society feature, predominantly
collectivist society sort of theme, let's say.
But that doesn't mean that it won't work in individualistic
societies. The other way around is
sometimes could be difficult, but not every society is
homogeneous either. In each society you have people
who are more, you know, inclined towards this side or the other.
But if you have convinced yourself that this is very
human, aspects of both societies are very human.
We have just gone different ways in living those human realities.
And if you sort of accept that, make it your own, live it in an
context appropriate way, then I find that it generally works.
Interesting. You know you've been able to
lead teams across different regions, you know, Eurasia,
Africa, but what are the leadership lessons that silly
with you today for managing teams across different cultures
and different socio economic realities?
You know, something that I've realized fairly quickly is, you
know, as the number of countries that I was responsible for, I
was increasing. If you take an approach of
saying, OK, what's the specific culture in this country and how
do I adapt for that? I figured that's not the right
way to approach leadership. A better way to approach is
we're all human beings. The first question is what are
those common values, common principles that work regardless
of where you are? And you'd be surprised that
you'd find a lot of those values.
Then you could say, OK, I'm going to South Africa.
Yes, be aware of some of the cultural aspects there that you
sort of enrich your approach with that.
But the, the foundation of your approach is what's common to all
of us. I used to call this common
currency of humanity. These are invisible current.
This is an invisible currency. So what is an example?
You know, if I show genuine interest in you as a person in a
conversation, or if I demonstrate care in what we're
doing together, you would that that currency would sort of
transmit to you. You're going to engage
differently. And that works everywhere if I
demonstrate genuine respect for you, whoever you are.
That currency works if I recognize you for what you've
done well. That works everywhere if you
didn't do something too well, if I sort of carefully share that
with you. Anniversary of independence.
We wondered about a game plan for the country's future, so
Hall of Fame basketball coach Mike Schefsky drew one up.
For us. To build a championship culture,
you need talent and character. You then developed the values of
that culture. The best teams have the best
values. We had 7 Integrity.
Do the right thing. Respect everyone is important.
Courage. The courage to say or do what
needs to be said or done in that moment.
Selfless service, loyalty, duty, the dignity of work and trust.
Values based organizations stand the test of time.
Our country has great talent and for 250 years we have proven
that we stand unshaken by the tests of history.
Moving into the future, we must continue to teach, celebrate and
most importantly, live the values that have made America
the best country in the world. Well, said Mike Schefsky.
Many leaders actually struggle when they come from technical
activity into global leadership. So what skills did you have to
unlearn and relearn when you stepped into the executive
roles? Well, I transitioned to general
management, let's say from a financial role.
Interesting. So as a CFOI was, you know, my
character is also very much a control oriented character and
at the base of it. So as a when you're in charge of
money, I used to travel around. This was E midden EI used to
travel around with a bag this big.
Why? Because I had, you know, every
number with me that you can imagine.
If I had a question or if somebody asked me a question, I
wanted to be on top of everything as a CFO.
Exactly. So when I first got my, and at
that time Internet wasn't as pervasive and I would say during
that time was the first time we got introduced to the idea of
e-mail, you know, that was like mid 90s in the in the company
environment. So that was the technology of
the time. So I was walking around with
this huge bag. When I got promoted to the
general management role, I said, well, if I aim to be on top of
everything all the time, there's no way I could do this job.
So it's not just finance, there's all these other
functions. So I decided to reinvent myself
and it was more. That's when the people issue
became even more pronounced because you really have to trust
your team. You have to nurture a a great
working relationship with your team members individually as
well as as a team. So if I can, if I had a good
team and if I trusted in them, think I don't think I have to
walk around with a suitcase of information.
So that was the first thing I changed, and I have sort of
shifted my focus from doing the functional work into more trying
to understand, you know, what's involved in that general
management role. Then I discovered things like
when there is a difficult time, you sort of have to be there
with the people, like we had an earthquake, for example.
And then you have to genuinely authentically participate in it.
Sometimes as a worker, you know, we set up tents and stuff like
that, but also during these times, people would look to you
for sort of a, a constructive vision for, for, for hope in a
realistic way. So that means that leadership
will make you turn inwards even more because if you don't feel
that, if you don't feel that there's a better future out
there, you won't be able to convince your team to that.
But if you maintain your realistic but constructive
attitude towards what can be achieved and stretch yourself,
be willing to do that yourself. So I didn't experience that as
ACFO so much. But as I moved into general
management, I started learning that those are traits that are
very important for you to succeed in a leadership role.
So and then sort of, you know, you're not expect, you may think
because you're in a leadership position that you should know
everything, but you will never know everything.
And being at ease with that, being at peace with that idea
helps also. And so those were some of the
things, Adam. Before we dive back into today's
conversation, I want to share something important.
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it, sometimes the best investment you can make these in
yourself. Interesting, interesting, but
you know, that's quite interesting to have a guest like
yourself who who addresses both sides of the population that we
cater to. So we have diary of a CFO and of
course, who better that, you know, an extra calculus CFO to
address that side. And of course, you know, you
have a King James podcast, which is aimed at mindset, AI,
leadership, business insights, right?
And of course, you're also an amazing individual to address
that side of the audience. Now it's interesting to see the
evolution from CFO to CEO, you know, among individuals, you
know, as CFOs, we tend to, you know, be primarily concerned
about the numbers. But when you make that move to
CEO, you a lot of people are met with a weird awakening that it's
not just about the numbers, but also about the people.
So when you were president of Coca-Cola International, you
were actually responsible for markets with billions of
customers, right? So how do leaders make high
stakes decisions when the scale of impact is so enormous?
Yes. You know, decision making is
both an art and a science, and the greater the stakes, the more
the art side comes into play. So one of the things my father
had taught me was Sonny said there's a process to decision
making. In other words, you have to
think about how you're going to decide before you decide.
I think that was a very important learning.
You have to decide how you're going to decide, and sometimes
in that how you have very rational exercises.
So you have analysis or you have research, or you say, OK, what
are my options? What are the pros and cons of
each option? A very cerebral process, very
rational process. But that's the science part.
There's also the art part. It's what you feel.
Maybe it's in your gut feel. It's deciding who would be the
right person to talk about this. You know, reaching out to your
network, knowing who to ask, knowing, knowing what to ask.
These are more the art part of decision making.
And each decision requires a different mix.
And at the end of the day, you're never sure whether you've
made the right decision because you know, if you haven't made
that, you don't know if you haven't made that decision, what
would have happened. So you will never know that, you
know what happens once you make that decision and you say, OK,
it looks good. It's, it looks like I've made
the right decision. But sometime down the road, you
might recognize an unintended consequence of your decision and
say, oh, I wonder if it, if I did the right thing.
So it's decision making is something like that.
It's art and science. And if you try to be absolutely
sure about whether you've done the right decision, if you, if
you occupy yourself on being perfect on making that decision,
then you don't make a good decision necessarily.
But it is important to be thoughtful about it.
It's important to be used both your rational side and your gut
feel and your the people around you who might help you.
There's a very nice Turkish saying that maybe summarizes
this. It says, you know, talk with a
lot of people, think with few, decide for yourself, decide
yourself basically not for yourself.
So I always found that very useful, very helpful, because
once you allow, of course, that assumes, you know, the decision
that you have to make has a certain time.
Like it's not, you don't have to make it today.
If you have time, it's good to let it extend over this time,
and through this process you start discovering things that
you otherwise might not have by following this kind of a an
approach. Interesting.
You know, something I've realized over time is the best
decisions I've never made in a hurry.
So it's it's always good to yeah, yeah, think before you act
right. But what, what frameworks would
you say have actually helped you to balance short term business
results with long term market growth?
You know, you always look for first of all, you have to accept
that, you know, there's always short term goals you have to met
meet and there's also long term goals.
In other words, you can't be too idealistic and say, oh, I'll
never make a decision that helps me in the short term but hurts
me in the long term. Of course, if you could, that's
wonderful. But I try to look at making
those short term decisions in a way that they contribute to the
longer term where possible. And then the important thing
though, is to run your business in such a way that short term
crises, short term surprises are minimized.
This means you've established system structures, cultures,
people, a good planning discipline.
So all of these in a well run company, excluding like external
shocks that you that is not in your control.
If you have your house in order, you already minimize the sort of
disruptive short term actions you have to take.
But then there would still be short term goals.
To the extent that you can set them in a way that they
contribute to the achievement of your longer term goals.
That's the ideal. You try to do that the best you
can. So, Luchenbach, was there any
difficult decision that taught you a lot about leadership and
responsibility? Yeah, there were certain
organizational decisions and people decisions.
Those are the harder ones and, and sometimes also commercial
decisions that taught me a lot. And I think what what what these
decisions teach you mostly is you really have to believe in
your believe the rightness of your position in what you're
doing. Because when in these decisions
you have a lot of objections or a lot of criticism and all of
that. If you really believe in what
you're doing, you have to hold your ground, not as a stubborn
person, but more as one that continues to explain why that's
the right thing, continue to win people over about why that's the
right thing. And if you have the belief and
inner strength in youth, then you can do that.
If you are easily swayed by external pressures or external
criticisms and stuff like that, then you're not going to make
the right decisions. Interesting.
So Speaking of right decisions, right, you actually spent a lot
of time in your career leading growth in emerging markets like
India, like Turkey, like Africa. A lot of people complain about
emerging markets saying they are full of challenges, but I see
that they are full of opportunities.
So what did you learn about, you know, taking on these challenges
and also what I see harness and the opportunities that exist in
this emerging markets? Yeah.
And I'm with you. You know they are full of
opportunities. There are opportunities in
developed markets as well, but the opportunities in emerging
markets are from a business growth standpoint are probably
even greater. I think the key would be your
time horizon because the emerging markets can go through
a lot of volatility, ups and downs.
So if you view these markets with a longer term mindset, you
know that there will be ups and downs.
So when the downs come, you focus on how to strengthen
yourself through that downtime because that downtime will be
over. And then when it's back into the
normal business, you have built yourself more strongly and
you're better positioned to take advantage of the opportunities.
So that's probably the fundamental approach to it is to
take the longer term horizon and look for the downs to make
yourself better through them. Interesting.
So for the founders and the CE OS that are listening today,
what are the biggest mistakes that companies make when
expanding internationally? What What are the biggest
mistakes that companies make when making global expansion?
Yeah, a common pitfall is let's say you are accustomed to doing
business in your own country, right?
And you sort of think, OK, the country where I'm going, the
same approach by and large would work.
For example, you know, you may have a distribution system that
works especially well for you in your home country, but then go
to another country. That may not work as well
because it may not be the same circumstances.
Or the pricing approach, you may be a, you know, very premium
brand in your own country, but you go to another country,
nobody knows you and you try to start out as a premium that has
its risks maybe because you, you know, so it's everything is
about the context and first really, really understanding
what are the critical SuccessFactors in the country
you're going to. And that's not easy for that
many times you need good, reliable local partners who sort
of know the market, who are honest, you know who you can
partner with in a productive way.
So that will be the biggest mistake to avoid, to not assume
that what has worked for you in 1-2 or three countries, even 5
countries will work in the next one.
Each one has its own dynamics, and each one requires a careful,
thoughtful strategy to. Interesting, you know, Speaking
of, you know, local context that there's something Coca-Cola does
in my country, Nigeria, we even have our own branded Coca-Cola,
you know, and Nigerian Fanta as well.
It's interesting how even in London, Nigerians still go for
the Nigerian Coke and the Nigerian Fanta because that is
sort of like customized for us. Is there, is there, is there a
treat to it, especially with Coca-Cola?
I go to some countries and then I'm like, oh, that is the Coke
for Turkey. That is the Coke for Romania,
that is the Coke for Belarus. But oh, what's up with the
branded and customization of Coca-Cola products for certain
special countries? Well, that's getting us into,
you know, coke business. And as you know, I've, I've been
away from that for the last 10 years.
So it wouldn't be appropriate for me to comment on, you know,
formulations or anything of that sort.
OK. OK.
But like it's, it's clear you guys would do that market
differentiation for certain would I say certain markets and
it seems it seems to be working, but like in your own view, what
separates companies that successfully globalize from
those that feel outside of their home markets?
What's what's the differentiating factor?
Yeah. I guess you know, every
products, every brand has, you know what appeals maybe more
universally and then what will have to be adjusted locally.
Sometimes a certain product may just work universally and and
that's great. You don't have to adjust
anything. But let's say you know, you
know, some countries, you know, orange juice consumption may be
so big that it's so relevant in some others, it may be apples,
you know, depending on what your product is, what your brand
stands for, it's always finding that right mix of, you know,
where something is universally relevant.
That's great. That means you don't have to
spend time and money to I try to localize it.
But if that doesn't work, you'll have to do to do that.
So each product, each brand will have to be find their own unique
mix for that. Interesting for their market
feeds. Let's talk about leadership, you
know, and mentorship because after your corporate career, you
transitioned into advisory and board role.
So how does leadership change when the role moves from being
an operator to being an advisor? Yeah, You know, and I've also
had some, you know, formal board roles and the advisory roles.
You know, the key there is to sort of shake off your mental
habits of being an operating person.
When you're an operating person, your mind is shaped in a certain
way, you're operating. But when you're in a board role,
you're governing, you're not operating and that has its own
dynamics. You have your fellow board
members who participate in that governance, you have certain
rules and regulations you adhere to etcetera.
And you know you have more of a long term strategic stewardship
oversight, let's say, not stewardship and oversight
responsibility and looking at risks over the long terms.
It's that kind of focus in the board roles, and you just have
to keep in check your previous operational experience to a
point that you're not intruding, you're not creating a sense of
mistrust or intruding unnecessarily into management's
work. Once you do that, and then of
course the other changes, you know, when you're operating,
you're always on top of all the issues, right?
But then when you're in these board roles, you come in and out
maybe every three months, every four months.
So it is important that when you sort of jump in, you're well
prepared and that you can play your role in the best way.
So that preparation is also very important.
Interesting. So what do great boards do very
well that every boards fail to do?
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I have been in probably,
I don't know how many, 8 or 9 maybe.
But so it's it's hard for me to generalize, but what makes sense
to me is do you have a sort of a good complementary set of skills
for the task at hand? So for example, you know, do you
have somebody with a technology or AI background, today's world,
right? Or do you have someone with a
people focus? Do you have someone with
expertise in the business itself, deep expertise.
So I think that that formation is, is that you have
complementary set of experiences in the board and then you know,
the culture and the environment of the board is very important.
Is there participation from all members?
Is everybody able to contribute to what they can?
And you know, is there like a healthy mix of both harmony in
the board, but at the same time healthy differences of opinion
and discussions about them? So it's those kinds of cultural
elements are also important in addition to the complementary
experiences. And then there's a bit of
discipline in how the board is run, right.
It's not you don't get your board materials day before the
next meeting and there is good follow up and and all of those
things. So those are the things that
come to mind that make things work.
And in some cases, you know, the discipline may not be there.
In some cases, maybe, you know, it's not run in a way, it's run
in such a way that only few people always talk and the
others listen. So now I'm not saying people
have to say something because they have to say something.
No, but it's the dynamic of is there as wide a participation as
possible. So that, that kind of thing, I
think that makes the boards effective.
Interesting, So if you actually mentor many leaders today, what
common mindset barriers prevent talented professionals from
reaching their full potentials? It's really hard because in our
world today, everybody works long hours just to keep up with
what's going on. And it takes a certain kind to
be able to step back from all of that and take a look at
themselves, take a look at business from a distance and
have a good conversation about what's holding us back and what
you know, and that it's not so much the mindset.
I, I find people to be open quite, you know, they, they're
willing to listen, but just the pressures of every day makes it
very hard for them to be able to step back and, and look at
things with a cool mind. And that's hard.
That's hard. Now you may say that's because
the leader isn't able to delegate properly because they
now miss the time for themselves.
And that's probably true that maybe that's the mindset
question. You know, as I think about it,
that try to set your work up in such a way that like you're not
so swamped and you're like you're accessible.
You're able to have time to think for yourself, think, you
know, have self reflection time. It's those kinds of factors, I
think that allow people to to grow.
Then you can also have your classical things like I know
everything, right? No, that's not the way to do it.
Not being open to other views. And there's not a black and
white answer on that because sometimes you are right,
Sometimes you know, you can't, you shouldn't listen too much.
Sometimes you have to. So it's it's a balance you have
to find. But but if you sort of if you're
wrapped up in everyday business going on, you never have a
chance to step back from yourself and reconsider those,
that's where the problem. You know activity doesn't
necessarily generate productivity.
Let's talk about your book. You know the philosophy of Soul
Tree. Amelia wanted to host a webinar,
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boss. That book introduces the idea of
doing a kind of self surgery on our thoughts and emotions.
What inspired you to develop these?
Frameworks. So when it was time to move to
to my next chapter, I gave a lot of serious thought to what I
should do next. Sort of what might have seemed
natural is, well, go on and either work as an executive
again or just participate in a number of boards.
But I wanted to share what I learned from my experiences in
the interest of developing better leadership as I saw it.
So I decided, you know, the a good way was to sort of capture
my thoughts somewhere in a book and then maybe I can publish
that book at some stage, which I did.
But an interesting thing happened in that process.
I've always believed that for me to be a better leader of others,
I have to become a better leader of myself.
And when I step, when I realized that's, that's been my approach
to leadership. So if I'm going to write
anything, I'm not a scientific person, you know, I'm not a,
this is not based on any science.
It's based on my experience. If it's going to be based on my
experience, then it has to honor that principle.
Leading yourself better before you lead others better.
So but then when I dove into that subject, self leadership.
I found myself in really the realm of what's growing as a
human being, you know, because if I'm going to lead myself,
what am I going to lead myself towards?
What is it for? What's my end goal in leading
myself? If you're leading a company,
your end goal may be to make more profits or to add more
value to your stakeholders. What's the end goal of leading
self? I decided that was this.
Just like businesses, we also have incredible potential of
what we can accomplish and who we can become the kind of person
we can become. It's both accomplishments for
the what and the how both. So if that's the goal of self
leadership, to discover and realize ever more of my better
self. So I found myself in this
concept of working on yourself to realize that potential.
And I said, what does that feel like, man?
It looks like it's like you're doing self surgery.
You're doing surgery on yourself.
And that's how the name came up, Self Surgery of the Soul.
So yeah, it was like a desire to contribute something in the area
of leadership. And if you dig deep into its
foundations, I ended up spending this time on what I called
initially self leadership. But then what in reality was way
a framework to continuously realize your better self through
life, through your everyday life?
OK, many people focus on external success, but the
neglect that, you know, growth. Why do you think, or why do you
believe that personal transformation is the real
foundation of leadership? Because that approach avoids
having to pretend. In other words, if my inner self
is strong, meaning I can manage my emotions, I can decide what
skills to build, I can build those skills, I can increase my
wisdom, I can know more about things.
So, you know, all of that is included in your inner self.
I'm including your skills in your inner self.
You're building your skills. So if those are there and you
just authentically or you're authentically present in all
situations, you don't have to pretend.
That inner self comes out naturally if you sort of ignore
your inner self and just focus on what am I going to do today
in this job or but then, you know, your inner self is sort of
struggling there. Yeah, maybe you might be able to
sort of twist some arms or force some solutions, but that that is
not sustainable. But if you keep building a
stronger inner self, which I include in the book, in that
inner self, your wisdom, your character and open heart and
your skills, those are the four things, your skills, which
includes your job skills as well as your soft skills, those will
naturally come together in your job.
They will come together in your role as a family person, like if
you're a father or mother or so just keep building that inner
machine. Keep building that inner machine
and reflect them through your roles in an authentic way.
That's how your performance is sustained.
I'm not guaranteeing success for two reasons.
Success may be different to you than it is to me.
It's a relative thing, what you consider success.
But what I'm saying is that you can sustain a high performance
through this through on an inside out way.
There's a. What would you say are the key
mental models that people have to master to unlock their true
potential? What?
What are those mental models that people have to unlock to
unlock their true potentials? Yeah, and of course, you know,
there is no one right answer on these, but what Soldier says is
being a meaning seeker. In other words, if you're in
doing a job, if the only reason, if the only reason you're doing
this is to earn money or to earn some status in in the society,
if that's the only reason that gets you only so far.
But if there is something bigger than yourself, something
contribution you're trying to makes, you're trying to make
life better for some people. And that doesn't have to be
grand things. But your mindset is about
contribution, about legacy. That doesn't mean you ignore
your financial goals or other personal goals.
You don't ignore them, but you put them into the context of the
contribution you're making. So that's, that's I'd say that's
actually 2 mindsets. 1 is that you're seeking some meaning out
of what you do. And the second one is that
meaning usually comes in the form of some sort of a
contribution, some legacy. I call this a legacy mindset.
So being a meaning seeker, having a legacy mindset, those
are couple of the mental models. Then how do you engage with
people at work, at home, in your society?
You asked earlier about how do you engage in different cultures
And I talked about this common currency of humanity, those
common currencies that there are certain qualities like
integrity, courage, fairness, respect, humility that connect
us more closely with one another.
If if I approach you with respect and humility, and you
know, you probably will be more approachable, you'll probably
engage with me more. So the third mindset is to have
that kind of authentic human connection, you know, behaving
with these qualities that connect us to one another.
That's the third mindset, meaning legacy human connection.
The 4th one I'd say is resilience.
All the problems we face, all the adversity that finds us when
we're not expecting the most, do we have the mindset of
approaching that so that we grow through them?
We truly do that. And then finally, I'd say if you
take these four mental models, you can always improve how well
you are acting on these. There is no perfection in them.
Sometimes you'll do well, sometimes you'll fall.
How consistently? How well?
So let's say take a certain human quality.
If I'm connecting with you, how deeply am I connecting?
I can always improve on that. I can always grow in each one of
them. I can connect with my meaning
every minute of my life. You know, that's a way out goal.
I can apply a growth mindset to my challenges certain way.
Now I can improve on that. So in all of these 4, you are
constantly growing yourself, continuous growth.
That's the 5th mindset. So I'd I'd say SOLDIER sort of
boils down to those seeking meaning, having a legacy
mindset, engaging with human qualities that connect you to
other people, finding growth opportunities in your
challenges, and then continuously growing yourself no
matter where you are in life. Those were the five mental
models, I think, that lay a robust foundation for growing as
a leader. Amazing so where where can
people find the book soldier? Is it an Amazon or what other
platforms is it on? And can we have the link in the
description? Yes, yes.
The book is available in three formats, both in print in Kindle
and an audio book. An audio book is pretty much in
every platform from Spotify to Audible to Storytell.
Whichever country your audience is in, they can look it up as an
audio book. They can download the Kindle and
they can purchase the print book through Amazon and many of the
other US retailers and they can also.
What I would recommend to them is this before they buy the
book. Now, if they listen to this
podcast, that is. I really want to buy the book.
OK, go ahead and buy the book. But if you're not sure, go to
the website whichissoldry.com, vw.soldrysoulgery.com and sort
of surf that website a little bit.
Try to read some of the things. Try to look at the Soldry model
and see how it does approach growth and all of that.
Then they can, from there, they can Click to the in the book
page, whichever retailer they're going to buy it from, they can
go there. Also, they can follow me on
LinkedIn with my name and I engage, you know, I share short
videos every week. They can, when they're in the
website, they can join my newsletter.
I'm sending monthly newsletters on how to live soldry so there's
all these ways they can engage with soldry, including buying
the book. Amazing, amazing.
I will definitely have that in the description section.
So let's talk about the future of leadership and of course,
human potential. Having worked across corporate
leadership, philanthropy and education, what gives you the
most hope about the next generation of leaders?
Well, I'm always, you know, I'm not one of the kinds who enjoy
conversations when people say things are so bad and oh, we're
done. You know, life will always serve
us. Life will always serve us, you
know, disruptive things as well as opportunities.
There will always be adversity, unexpected challenges.
My view is this will never end. And we have to focus on what we
can produce, what we can make happen.
On the on the more positive side, I'm quite one of the
things that's very encouraging for me is that as I was
socializing the book, I get feedback from many saying this
is what this new generation is looking for, They're seeking.
And if that's true, which I find that it's true in many cases,
that's very encouraging because that means people want to have a
sense of meaning, a purpose, and they want to integrate their
lives behind that purpose. That's a wonderful awakening.
We didn't have that when I was young.
We were pretty much like, OK, you're going to graduate from
college and you're going to get a job and you'll get married.
And it was like a pretty much laid road map for us.
And we follow that. But this generation is asking
for meaning. They're questioning things.
I think that's very encouraging. I'm also quite encouraged about
what AI can do for humanity. Now, I do have to say this will
be a very, very disruptive period, you know, and because AI
can be an incredible enabler of realizing our potential, but at
the same time, it can be the reason why we shrink.
And it is up to the individual and it is up to how it's
governed. Both of these factors on the
individual side, if you use it in a lazy way, I'm going to let
AI do my work for me, you will find yourself on the shrinking
path. But if you use the harder
working way to, to create a better version of yourself by
using AI, using it as a mirror to yourself, and yes, getting
rid of low value work that you're doing, but really
focusing on high value work, which will always be there as
long as humans exist. So, so in a in a way, I'm very
encouraged by what AI can do, but I also have to say that some
of its risks are inevitable job displacements and losses and how
people will adapt to that, how governance will deal with that.
Those are unknowns. So yeah, those give me both the
hope and the caution for the future.
And she said, so Speaking of AI, how should companies rethink
leadership development in a world that is shaped by by, you
know, the rapid changes and global increasing global
complexity? How?
How should companies retain leadership?
Yeah, I think a couple of mindsets become very important
in my view. 1 is, is the mindset of how AI will make us better as
an organization that you're really committed to walking that
path, not sort of overly protective trying to protect
your organization, but really a more constructive, more creative
approach with what AI can do. Second one is a more holistic
systems thinking type of view that becomes very important.
So you should even ask the question of with AI, is my
primary product and service still going to be relevant?
Start there. Then question, is my business
model the right business model? Do I have the right people?
Do I have the right processes, everything?
How am I engaging with my stakeholders?
So think about beyond your company, think about the
ecosystem in which your company exists.
And with that perspective evaluates everything from the
beginning and then reinvent yourself.
So that's the second mindset, A systemic view where you question
every existential question about your company and be willing to
take the risks and the actions to evolve it so that it thrives
in an AI world. I know these are easier said
than done, but it's this kind of people, this kind of mindset
that will decide how people will leverage the AI capability that
we're being served. So if you were advising a young
professional starting their career today, what capabilities
would you tell them to build first?
You know, I'd say ability to reinvent themselves.
So I'd say in your life, you will probably get involved in
10-15 different things throughout your career.
They may be completely different areas, they may be related, but
and you will learn, you will prove yourself, you will be
successful and then you'll find that you're disrupted.
You're going to have to reinvent yourself again.
So I'd say that would be my number one advice to somebody
going into and they shouldn't be scared about that.
That's a wonderful muscle to build that allows them to lay
stronger roots that they can stand on their two feet in life
no matter what happens. So the other thing I'd say is it
seems, you know, all these things about work life balance
and, you know, we're so comfortable in many, many ways
in many parts of the societies, that's sometimes I, I think, you
know, the value of hard work and sacrifice is slowly being
forgotten. Like you have to sacrifice
sometimes from your personal life so that especially earlier
on in your career, you have to work extremely hard to do that.
And sometimes if you have to reinvent yourself, that comes
through and then never to fall into the pole of I'm just
working too hard. And, you know, what is this?
Where is this going to, Oh, I'm not, you know, don't complain
about that. So that would be another thing.
Yeah. OK, amazing, amazing take.
We're getting to the end of the podcast and there's something I
always love to say that any time a person shares the time with
you, they're sharing their life with you.
Of course, the SI unit for measuring life is time.
So gratitude is good attitude. And you know, for me, to you,
it's a very, very big thank you for sharing your life and your
time with us on the podcast today.
But before you leave, we have a tradition of asking the quick
fire round questions. That is five quick fire round
questions and of course putting you on the hot seed to ask you
two individuals, right. So the tradition is you
mentioned one person you are going to invite on the forecast
that you invite. You mentioned another person you
would like for me to invite on the forecast.
So would you give me two names, one person you invite yourself
or one person for me to invite? Why you think about those two
names? Maybe we should take you through
the quick fire round. So that is five questions.
Just give an answer that comes to your mind first.
So number one, what is 1 leadership principle you need by
every day? What is 1 leadership principle
you need by? Every you're yeah, you get your
mind onto the the contribution you are going to make in your
area of work that day. What are you going to make
better that day. So get your mind oriented to
that. Interesting so #2 is what is the
best career advice you have ever received?
Surround yourself with good people.
I think that is amazing advice #3 what is a book that changed
how you think about leadership? Very Young I Was Two books, 7
Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey and The
Effective Executive by Peter Drucker.
Oh wow, interesting. Peter Drucker that's that's an
OG of management science. Interested, I've read one of
those books that I think I'll I'll go grab the second one.
So #4 What is 1 habit that helps you stay mentally strong and
focused? Self reflection.
Okay, surgery by the surgery experts.
And #5 if you could summarize your life philosophy in one
sentence, what would it be? If you could summarize your life
philosophy in one sentence, what would it be?
So it is keep serving in areas where I have the skills.
That's basically what it. Is you have the skills, Wow.
Interesting. I actually I actually wrote it
down somewhere. I don't know if I wrote it down
exactly as this. I took time to, if you want to
hold just for a second, I'm going to read to you from where
they are. It's the same thing.
I just want to be able to say it.
I want to see if I said it in a different.
So to see, here we go to serve with excellence in areas where
my skills can make the most meaningful impact.
I think that is brilliant. That is absolutely brilliant.
So I hope you wrote the names that you would love to see other
podcasts. Two names, one name you invite
yourself, one name I get invite. One name comes to mind, but
instead of naming them right here, I just want to be
respectful of their privacy and. OK.
Ask them and introduce you and let them come and then I'll find
another second name too, so I'll share those with you.
OK, amazing, amazing. Let's let's cover.
Let's cover the name and uncover the name after.
I think that is an amazing. All right, OK.
OK, So if the listeners could take only one idea from this
conversation we've had today about leadership and unlocking
human potential, what should that idea be?
Never doubt that your potential to do better and to be better is
greater than you think. Oh wow wow, never doubt that.
Your potential to do better and to be better the creator that
you think I think that that's actually true.
I was telling somebody yesterday that things are never as good as
we think and they're never as bad as we think right.
So we need to be open minded yeah.
And I think I think this speaks to it.
Wow, wow, wow. It's it's, it's a very, very big
thank you for me to you, your man, who is actually, when I say
lead many lives and of course aligns very much with my
philosophy and of course aligns with, you know, the number one
brand in the world for me that I love.
So many things to love and appreciate about you.
So it's thank you very, very much for your time today.
Of course, God bless you. And of course, to the guys, to
the people who listen to us, never forget, all is thank you
very much. All is good for something in
your lives. Conceive and strive to thrive
and of course, achieve. It's like, call me away next
time, guys. You know, keep keep winning and
of course, keep subscribing, keep sharing the word.
And of course, you know, keep helping us grow to that global
top 1%. All righty.
Good luck to you on that.