1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,040
I am going to ask you a question
that was sent to you by my 

2
00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,440
partner and she says this, She 
says from your perspective, 

3
00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,400
what's the most exciting or 
surprising discovery about the 

4
00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,280
brain in recent years? 
We think for a minute, Oh my 

5
00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,000
gosh, there's so many. 
Let me give you 1 from my book 

6
00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:24,360
that so. 
Welcome to the King Dems 

7
00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:27,680
podcast, where we share the 
stories of extraordinary people 

8
00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,880
and dissect hot, relevant topics
that shape our world. 

9
00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:33,920
From visionary leaders to 
trailblazing creatives, we 

10
00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,280
uncover the mindset, strategy, 
and grit behind greatness. 

11
00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,800
Whether it's business, culture, 
or personal growth, we ask the 

12
00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,240
real questions. 
This isn't just conversation, 

13
00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,800
it's transformation. 
The Kingdom's podcast, Your next

14
00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,560
breakthrough starts here. 
Music licensing reimagined. 

15
00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:54,800
Before we dive back into today's
conversation, I want to share 

16
00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:56,360
something important. 
This episode includes a pay 

17
00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:58,400
partnership with Better Help, a 
platform designed to make 

18
00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:00,200
starting therapy easier. 
I know from my own journey as a 

19
00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:01,920
leader and entrepreneur that 
life can sometimes feel 

20
00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:03,240
overwhelming. 
There are seasons, severe 

21
00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,200
stress, uncertainty, and 
pressure build up, and you need 

22
00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:07,360
a safe space to process it all 
that severe therapy comes in. 

23
00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:09,600
Therapy isn't only for people 
facing clinical challenges. 

24
00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,400
It's the space to reflect, grow,
and find better ways to my 

25
00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:14,200
stress, relationships and 
pessima goals. 

26
00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,760
It takes the courage to seek 
help, but it's also one of the 

27
00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:18,560
smartest investments you can 
make in your mental and 

28
00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:20,160
emotional world. 
That's why I'm proud to 

29
00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:21,480
highlight. 
Better help with better help. 

30
00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:24,240
Think you feel out of a short 
question there and get match to 

31
00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:25,960
the credential therapist in just
a couple of days. 

32
00:01:25,960 --> 00:01:28,280
If the first match doesn't feel 
like the right field, you can 

33
00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,200
easily switch therapist at no 
actual cost until you find 

34
00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:31,360
someone who should connect with 
you. 

35
00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:33,280
Inside the platform, you also 
find tools like Donelline and 

36
00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,000
group sessions on different 
topics that can support your 

37
00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:36,560
growth. 
And with over 7000 reviews and 

38
00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,040
4.5 trustpathy, reason, Better 
Help is a platform you can rely 

39
00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:40,400
on. 
So if you feel like you'd 

40
00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:41,720
benefit from talking to a 
therapist, visit 

41
00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,640
betterhelp.com/contained. 
That's betterhelp.com/contained 

42
00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:46,360
to get 10% off your first mother
therapy. 

43
00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:48,480
Once again, this is a big 
partnership with Better Help and

44
00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:50,600
I encourage you to take that 
first step if you've been 

45
00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:52,360
thinking about it. 
Sometimes the best you can make 

46
00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,960
ease in. 
Yourself real life, ladies and 

47
00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,760
gentlemen, you'll once again 
welcome to the Kingdom's 

48
00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,440
podcast. 
And today I've got with me a V 

49
00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:07,200
VIP14 out of New York, United 
States of America. 

50
00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:12,320
Mick, welcome, Doctor Benjamin 
Ryan. 

51
00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,960
How are you, Doctor Ben? 
I'm great man, Thanks for having

52
00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:16,960
me. 
It's good to be here. 

53
00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:21,160
Wow, wow, finally, finally six 
months in the making. 

54
00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,880
And of course, you know, we 
finally have you here. 

55
00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,280
And before we hit the record 
button, I was saying it like it 

56
00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,200
feels like this man is not just 
a genius. 

57
00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:36,200
This man is also a seer. 
Probably he sees the future. 

58
00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,600
I think we should have futurist 
to to your list of titles 

59
00:02:41,640 --> 00:02:47,720
because you actually did like a 
perfect timing on the better 

60
00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,200
help partnership. 
So better help reached out to me

61
00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:57,680
last week to become a brand 
partner with them. 

62
00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,880
And you know, this is highly, 
highly connected to the work 

63
00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:06,440
that you do to mental health. 
It's a therapy and it's it's a 

64
00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,360
good time. 
It's a good time to be on the 

65
00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,760
podcast and you actually timed 
it perfectly. 

66
00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:16,480
So I appreciate you and of 
course, like I like to see in 

67
00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,920
every of my episodes, gratitude 
is good attitude. 

68
00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,240
When a person shares their time 
with you, they share their life 

69
00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:27,200
with you because the SI unit for
measuring life is time. 

70
00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:31,760
So I will give you your flowers.
Please sit back and let me read 

71
00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,280
out your introduction. 
So ladies and gentlemen, to do I

72
00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:39,040
have the pleasure of speaking 
with Doctor Benjamin Brain, a 

73
00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,880
neuroscientist, educator and 
award-winning science 

74
00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,040
communicator. 
Doctor Ben is the Chief Science 

75
00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,520
Officer of the Mind Science 
Foundation and adjunct 

76
00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:53,920
instructor at Stanford 
University and founder of the 

77
00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:58,480
Aspiring scientists Collision 
supporting students in over 75 

78
00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,440
countries. 
He's groundbreaking research 

79
00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:07,400
spans autism spectrum disorder, 
empathy, and the neurobiology of

80
00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:12,240
social behavior, and he has 
authored more than 20 peer 

81
00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:16,240
reviewed papers. 
Beyond the laboratory, Doctor 

82
00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,279
Ben reaches over 1,000,000 
people worldwide with 

83
00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:23,440
educational science videos on 
TikTok, Instagram and YouTube, 

84
00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,720
where he breaks down complex 
neuroscience and tackles 

85
00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,720
misinformation head on. 
His mission is to see is to make

86
00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,080
science accessible, accurate and
inspiring. 

87
00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:38,240
And today we're diving deep into
his journey, research and 

88
00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,440
impact. 
Once again, ladies and 

89
00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:44,360
gentlemen, make welcome Doctor 
Ben Rain. 

90
00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,280
Thank you for that intro by the 
way, because you know IA lot of 

91
00:04:48,280 --> 00:04:50,760
the time people when I'm 
introduced, they'll just use the

92
00:04:50,840 --> 00:04:53,160
bio I have on my like website or
whatever. 

93
00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,360
But I could tell you, you really
you customized that and I 

94
00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:57,800
appreciate that. 
It means a lot, really. 

95
00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:00,800
Brother, we, we, we do our 
research here, you know, and of 

96
00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,800
course, that is why we're 
climbing the global rankings. 

97
00:05:04,280 --> 00:05:05,680
I'll tell you these. 
Well deserved. 

98
00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:08,680
Thank you very much. 
I really appreciate it. 

99
00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,440
You know, as at the time of 
recording, we are currently 

100
00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:19,320
global top 2.5% and the goal is 
to make it to the global top 1%.

101
00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,600
I think you're going to do it. 
Absolutely with you on the show 

102
00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:27,560
come on collaboration, teamwork 
makes the dream work. 

103
00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:29,960
You know that's right. 
This dream is going to 

104
00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,400
absolutely work we're going to 
smash it we are going to smash 

105
00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:33,640
it. 
Let's. 

106
00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:35,680
Do it. 
Wow. 

107
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,560
So let's go back to, you know, 
where it all started. 

108
00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:41,200
You know your journey and your 
vision. 

109
00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,200
What really you know initially 
treats you to neuroscience. 

110
00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:49,440
And how did empathy and social 
behavior become central to your 

111
00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,800
research focus? 
Man, my relationship with 

112
00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:58,080
neuroscience started way before 
I knew it started. 

113
00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,240
It really began for me honestly 
in in grade school, elementary 

114
00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:06,520
school, I remember looking 
around my cafeteria, sitting at 

115
00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:10,680
lunch and eating my sandwich or 
whatever and just noticing that 

116
00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,120
there was the kids naturally 
distributed by like social 

117
00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,400
behavior. 
And, and you know, I, that's not

118
00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:18,280
how I thought about it when I 
was like 7 years old. 

119
00:06:18,280 --> 00:06:21,600
But I noticed that there were 
really outgoing groups of 

120
00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,560
children and then they were 
really shy, quiet groups, you 

121
00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:26,600
know, and you see this 
everywhere now as an adult, you 

122
00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,840
can look around a bar, a pub, 
you know, a library, a concert, 

123
00:06:30,840 --> 00:06:32,680
whatever, you name it. 
You look around, you can see 

124
00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,280
this distribution of how people 
treat and act towards others. 

125
00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:38,360
And I thought that was really 
interesting when I was young 

126
00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,720
because I was, I was like, why? 
Why are some people really 

127
00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:42,720
outgoing and others are really 
shy? 

128
00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:45,720
But I didn't think about it 
obviously from a neuroscience 

129
00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,600
lens. 
But later on when I got to my, 

130
00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:52,040
my college, I was studying 
psychology and I was interested 

131
00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,160
in that. 
I was interested in social 

132
00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,000
psychology, why people act the 
way they do and, you know, in 

133
00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,320
social interactions. 
And I knew I had an interest in 

134
00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,720
the brain. 
I knew I had some, like there 

135
00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,280
was something inside of me that 
said the brain is the 

136
00:07:04,280 --> 00:07:05,840
interesting part. 
It's not about the behavior. 

137
00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,040
It's about what's driving the 
behavior, right? 

138
00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,680
Like this organ, this mysterious
organ up here in the dark. 

139
00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,240
What's it doing? 
And but I was afraid of 

140
00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:14,600
neuroscience. 
Honestly, I was. 

141
00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:16,840
I was. 
Everybody thinks you have to be 

142
00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:18,640
a genius to to be a 
neuroscientist. 

143
00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:19,520
I don't know. 
And I. 

144
00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,160
Didn't well, I didn't believe in
myself And, and you know, the 

145
00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,080
reality is if you want to become
a neuroscientist or you want to 

146
00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,440
become, you know, any sort of 
scientist or doctor, whatever, 

147
00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:30,880
you have to take, you know, 
genetics, molecular biology, 

148
00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,640
biochemistry, all these really 
challenging courses. 

149
00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:35,720
And I didn't know if I had it in
me. 

150
00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:37,560
I was really intimidated by 
that. 

151
00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:41,920
And so I stayed studying 
psychology for a while, kind of 

152
00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,840
feeling like I was doing the 
wrong thing but not willing to 

153
00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,240
confront it. 
And then in my second year of 

154
00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,520
college, I had the most 
terrifying nightmare of my life.

155
00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,360
And I'll spare you the details 
of the nightmare, but the 

156
00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,760
important part is that I woke up
and I sat up in bed and I 

157
00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,520
thought, Oh my goodness, how did
my brain do that? 

158
00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,760
How did my brain generate this 
whole environment, this world 

159
00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,480
that I was interacting with? 
And there were characters and I 

160
00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:09,760
was making decisions and there 
was a storyline and people would

161
00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:11,800
say things to me and I would 
react. 

162
00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,800
And not knowing that it was all 
happening within this one organ,

163
00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,640
the world I was inhabiting and 
the person I was, we're all 

164
00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,160
within the same organ. 
And that just blew my mind. 

165
00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,840
Like it something just happened 
where I was like, I need to 

166
00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:24,640
understand the brain. 
It's not about behavior, it's 

167
00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,400
about this thing. 
And I literally changed that 

168
00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,840
day. 
I went to my academic advisor, 

169
00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:33,240
changed my major, changed my 
path, started studying 

170
00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,679
neuroscience got as in those 
classes I was afraid of. 

171
00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,520
So everybody, don't be afraid. 
Don't let your intimidations 

172
00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:40,919
steer you in the wrong 
direction. 

173
00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:42,640
Take it on. 
You were saying this before we 

174
00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:44,320
started recording. 
I mean, if you really if you 

175
00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:46,880
want something, if you really 
believe in something you're 

176
00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:48,400
capable of anything you can get 
right through it. 

177
00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,160
And so now coming full circle, 
I'm able to, I've been studying 

178
00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:53,880
for the last decade, the 
neuroscience of social behavior 

179
00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:55,840
and studying things like you 
mentioned, autism spectrum 

180
00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,880
disorder, empathy, looking at 
the, the brain systems that 

181
00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:03,120
drive these social changes and 
social differences in people and

182
00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,960
really getting it to the heart 
of that question I cared about 

183
00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:07,960
as a child. 
And I'm, I'm living the dream. 

184
00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,000
I'm enjoying all the, the work 
I'm leading. 

185
00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,960
It's a lot of fun. 
Wow, you know, it's, it's quite 

186
00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:20,480
interesting and I appreciate 
your what I say, authenticity 

187
00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:26,320
and ability to the vulnerable. 
A lot of successful people want 

188
00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:31,720
to paint a perfect picture, but 
I always tell people, people 

189
00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,960
don't relate to perfection. 
People relate to excellence. 

190
00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:41,520
And successful people are people
who have failed multiple times. 

191
00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:46,120
But you know, we're Brazilian 
enough to find ways to be 

192
00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:48,240
successful at the things that 
they do. 

193
00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,520
Imposo syndrome. 
A lot of people struggle with 

194
00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:54,960
imposo syndrome, but I'm quite 
grateful. 

195
00:09:55,280 --> 00:10:00,080
I'm a man of faith, by the way, 
I'm a Christian and at the early

196
00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:05,720
age of 16, I went to Bible 
school, graduated and, you know,

197
00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,840
the faith was, you know, very, 
very ingrained in my heart. 

198
00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,440
And do you want to know what my 
favorite Bible verse is? 

199
00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:18,560
Philippians chapter 4, verse 13.
I can do all things true crisis 

200
00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:21,760
strengthens me. 
That's verse what I say sort of 

201
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:27,720
helped me in my life to beat the
whole imposter syndrome thing. 

202
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:32,520
I'm not afraid to feel because I
failed multiple times out of 

203
00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,680
very early age. 
I was very poor at mathematics 

204
00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:42,800
and failed twice at what you 
call the O level in Nigeria and 

205
00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,480
third time asking, third time as
a champ. 

206
00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:50,200
I got it. 
So I feel like that experience 

207
00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:54,720
made me have a very, very early 
encounter with failure. 

208
00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,560
And we've been there, done that.
But what would you say about 

209
00:10:57,560 --> 00:11:02,240
like young people who try to 
chase perfection and I'm not 

210
00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:06,880
able to get it. 
And because they probably feel 

211
00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:13,440
like certain things, they feel 
like they're not worthy or they 

212
00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:18,640
don't have a place in society. 
And going into the adulthood 

213
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:20,800
impulsive syndrome, you know, 
kicks in. 

214
00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:22,440
I'd like for you to touch on 
that. 

215
00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,040
Yeah, You know, I told you the 
very short version of my story, 

216
00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,680
which basically sounded like I 
became a neuroscientist and it 

217
00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:31,800
was successful, right? 
I left out a lot of details. 

218
00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,680
And the reality is it wasn't, it
wasn't just I changed my major 

219
00:11:35,680 --> 00:11:37,760
and I poof, I was a Stanford 
neuroscientist. 

220
00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:41,320
No, the truth is I've had I had 
setbacks like that all the way 

221
00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,040
through my life. 
And when I was first applying to

222
00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,680
college, I thought I was, I 
thought I was smart and I 

223
00:11:47,680 --> 00:11:50,080
thought I was gonna have no 
problem getting into colleges. 

224
00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,720
And I thought I'll, I'll know 
I'm smart, you know, And so I 

225
00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,320
applied to, I don't know, 12 
dozen schools. 

226
00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,040
And the only school that I got 
into was my very lowest fall 

227
00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,800
back, a school with like an 80% 
acceptance rate. 

228
00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,800
And it's a, it's a, it's a 
great, it was a good school. 

229
00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:07,960
I had a great education. 
It's West Virginia University. 

230
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:09,120
It's in West Virginia in 
America. 

231
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,200
And it's most known for being 
the number one party school in 

232
00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:13,480
America. 
And I had a good time. 

233
00:12:13,680 --> 00:12:16,920
I did, but I was disappointed 
with myself. 

234
00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:18,800
I was disappointed with life. 
And that was the first time 

235
00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,840
where I felt like, Oh my gosh, 
my life is not going to be what 

236
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,480
I thought it was going to be. 
You know, like I like I've, I 

237
00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:29,400
had this ambitious vision and 
now I just took this scary 

238
00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,600
detour into I don't know what my
life is going to be like. 

239
00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,160
And that scared me that kind of,
you know, it's intense to say 

240
00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,560
this, but it kind of traumatized
me where that was the first time

241
00:12:38,560 --> 00:12:41,800
I felt like my well-being, my, 
the sustainability of my career 

242
00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,680
was threatened. 
So I went to my, my undergrad, I

243
00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:45,840
did it. 
I worked as hard as I could. 

244
00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,240
I had a four point OGPAI 
graduated in, in three years. 

245
00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,960
I, so a year early, I worked in 
all these research labs. 

246
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,800
I did everything I could so that
when I was applying to my PhD, 

247
00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,680
it wouldn't happen again, that I
wouldn't get disappointed like 

248
00:12:57,680 --> 00:12:59,440
that. 
And so I applied to all these 

249
00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:03,440
great schools now like 10. 
Once again, I only got into my 

250
00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,120
lowest fall back, which is the 
school that I did not want to go

251
00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:07,840
to. 
And I was like, Oh my goodness. 

252
00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:11,360
Again. 
I worked so hard, like I was 

253
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,400
100% more deserving this time 
around. 

254
00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,360
I had such a higher GPAI had all
this extracurriculars, like I've

255
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,520
poured everything into being 
successful academically and I 

256
00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,280
still didn't get what I wanted. 
And that broke my heart. 

257
00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,200
And so, but I kept my head up 
and I stayed optimistic. 

258
00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:30,520
And so I went to my PhD and once
again, I worked my ass off. 

259
00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:32,520
Sorry, I don't know if we swear 
on this podcast, but. 

260
00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,160
Feel free. 
Feel free brother. 

261
00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:37,560
All right, I'll, I'll try and 
take it easy here. 

262
00:13:37,560 --> 00:13:41,000
Not, not like a off the rails 
cursor or anything, but I worked

263
00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:44,360
really hard and I ended up 
publishing, you know, a bunch of

264
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,280
papers and having a really high 
GPA and getting all these 

265
00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,200
awards. 
And I went to the next step 

266
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,560
where you're after a PhD, you 
apply to a postdoc. 

267
00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:54,640
If you're doing a, if you want 
to be a researcher, it's kind of

268
00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:56,760
like a residency. 
When doctors do a residency, a 

269
00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:58,760
postdoc is like the scientist 
equivalent. 

270
00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:03,160
And so I applied to Stanford, 
MIT, Johns Hopkins, Yale, 

271
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:04,720
Harvard, all these great 
schools. 

272
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,800
And I thought, please do not let
me get disappointed again. 

273
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:13,000
And I got offers from Stanford, 
MIT, Yale, Duke, Johns Hopkins, 

274
00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:15,760
I could have gone to any of 
those places and I end up going 

275
00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,120
to Stanford. 
And that was I Stanford. 

276
00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,240
I went to Stanford because it's 
one of the top institutions in, 

277
00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:25,960
in the US And when I visited, so
I'm from the East Coast and the 

278
00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,160
East Coast is very where, where 
I'm from at least, is very Gray 

279
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:30,600
and cloudy. 
And you don't get a lot of sun. 

280
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:31,840
It's cold. 
We get a lot of snow. 

281
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,360
And then we, my wife and I, we 
visited Stanford and we were 

282
00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,560
like, yeah, like this is, it's 
like blue skies, sunny, 

283
00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:39,600
gorgeous. 
And it was, it was kind of the, 

284
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,560
the environment that that sold 
us and also the, the lab that I 

285
00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:43,880
was going to work with. 
That's amazing. 

286
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,520
But I, but I share all this to 
say, like, you can be 

287
00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:53,600
disappointed and humiliated and 
just terrified over and over, 

288
00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:55,680
and then you can have a 
breakthrough. 

289
00:14:55,840 --> 00:15:00,200
And I think that it's, it's 
important to not bang your head 

290
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:01,760
against a wall that's going 
nowhere. 

291
00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:06,360
But I think, you know, you want 
to make calculated decisions 

292
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,800
about this stuff, right? 
Like, I don't think that in any 

293
00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,320
universe, even if I, let's say 
the story ended in a bad way, 

294
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,000
where once again, I didn't get 
into all those places, I don't 

295
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,000
think I would look back and say,
man, I regret trying so hard. 

296
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,280
You know, and I regret having 
all that success academically, 

297
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,200
But I, it did pay off because I 
was resilient and I kept pushing

298
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,600
through. 
And, you know, I, I think that 

299
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,400
as long as we know that the 
challenge we're up against is 

300
00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:34,200
worthwhile and that the 
outcomes, the potential upside 

301
00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,160
is there and it's what we want, 
You know, it's, it's just like 

302
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:38,440
the same thing with taking those
classes. 

303
00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:40,560
You know, you might be afraid 
of, of something and then you do

304
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,360
it and just 'cause you have to 
do what you get through it. 

305
00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:44,960
You know, I think if you love 
something and you want it and 

306
00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,000
you keep fighting for it, 
there's going to be something 

307
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:49,280
good. 
It may not be the, you know, I 

308
00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:50,840
can't promise, you know, you're 
going to get everything you 

309
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,080
want, but you will breakthrough 
eventually. 

310
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:58,120
And and you can imagine what it 
has been like for me. 

311
00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,720
I mean, imagine, imagine going 
through that and going all these

312
00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,120
universities saying you're not 
worth our time, you're not 

313
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:05,560
worth, you can't be a student 
here. 

314
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,480
And then finally, after 10 years
of working on that or seven 

315
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,200
years of working on that, you 
get to Stanford and you're in 

316
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,600
front of all these scientists 
who are Stanford scientists and 

317
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,760
they all come from Harvard and 
UC Berkeley and all these great 

318
00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:17,600
schools. 
And you're like, I've never been

319
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,360
in anyone like around these 
caliber people ever. 

320
00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:22,400
Imagine the imposter syndrome, 
right? 

321
00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:27,240
That was difficult, but it was 
fine. 

322
00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:28,920
I was completely fine. 
I kept up with everyone. 

323
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,000
You know, I, I, it was 
completely fine. 

324
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,920
There was no issue. 
And, and I could have been 

325
00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:35,320
alongside these people all 
along. 

326
00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:39,400
I think that the truth is, you 
know, another major lesson I 

327
00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,640
like to tell people is this all 
started because I didn't apply 

328
00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,080
myself in high school. 
I didn't have the grades that I,

329
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:46,440
that I thought I had in high 
school. 

330
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,240
I, you know, I was capable of 
getting high grades, but I 

331
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:50,640
wasn't really trying in my 
classes. 

332
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,400
And if I had tried harder, then 
I would have probably gotten 

333
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,240
into a better college and then I
would have gotten into a better 

334
00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:57,920
PhD and I wouldn't have been 
fighting all that time. 

335
00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,880
And so, you know, I think for 
young people, it's important to 

336
00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,599
take academics seriously because
academics in many cases will be 

337
00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:07,760
the key to unlocking whatever 
the future is. 

338
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,040
And when that when you reach 
that point, if you reach that 

339
00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,800
point like me, where you open 
that door, you know, use that 

340
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:17,079
key and you twist that knob and 
you open that door and it's a 

341
00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:19,800
horrifying reality on the other 
side and it's not what you 

342
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,000
expected. 
That's a real wake up call. 

343
00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,560
And so if you can apply yourself
earlier and really start taking 

344
00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:28,480
stuff seriously before it 
becomes too late, you're gonna 

345
00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,240
thank yourself for doing that. 
And I wish I had done that 

346
00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:32,640
myself. 
Wow. 

347
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:37,080
I think this is a very, very 
great a Big Brother advice. 

348
00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:41,440
You know, here in the UK, it's 
really, really puzzling to me 

349
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:48,280
how the key to here, the Gen. 
Z generally do not really value 

350
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,320
education, especially tertiary 
education. 

351
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,440
And then they tell me, oh, if 
you went to university, I'm not 

352
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:55,760
interested in going to 
university. 

353
00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:00,480
I'm like, OK, there's one in my 
apartment. 

354
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,360
I had to talk to you. 
I said, you know what, if you 

355
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:11,600
become well educated, you may 
never become very rich or you 

356
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:15,640
will never become very poor and 
good. 

357
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:20,040
Point unless you take out too 
many student loans. 

358
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,000
You know, back to your point of,
of, of, you know, at least 

359
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,480
trying, you know, Nelson Mandela
of blessed memory, he said 

360
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,800
something. 
He said if we try, we may fail. 

361
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:35,040
Or if we don't, we have failed, 
at least try. 

362
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:39,040
And I love your theme of 
resilience. 

363
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:42,680
It's something that I preach, 
you know, on this podcast, you 

364
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,880
know, all the time. 
Resilience is, is very 

365
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,960
important. 
You know, keep going and never 

366
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:53,120
let anybody stop you. 
Never let anybody put you down. 

367
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:58,000
Never let anybody, you know, try
to put you in a box because we 

368
00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:59,120
all don't know what we are 
doing. 

369
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:03,920
And, you know, some people try 
to advise other people based on 

370
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:08,560
their own worldview or based on 
the limitations that, you know, 

371
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,400
they have on their minds or the 
cast on themselves, right? 

372
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:14,440
And they try to project it and 
other people. 

373
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,520
And that's something I very, 
very, very much detest. 

374
00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:21,080
I remember when I was, you know,
about to start this podcast, 

375
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:25,080
I'll see someone who was very 
opposed to it. 

376
00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:29,360
And I think that was the reason 
why that relationship had to 

377
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,080
end. 
It's crazy. 

378
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:32,680
You can't stop me from my 
dreams. 

379
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,440
You can't stop me from my goals.
And I was very, very upset about

380
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:37,840
it. 
And they were like, oh, you're 

381
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,480
finance guy, What are you? 
Why are you going into the 

382
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,840
media? 
Do you need permissions from 

383
00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:46,200
anybody? 
If you're passionate about 

384
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:50,040
something and go for it. 
If you have a dream, always go 

385
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:51,120
for it. 
And of course, keep. 

386
00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:53,080
And, you know, can I add 
something on that because we 

387
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,920
were talking earlier before we 
started, before we turn on the 

388
00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,240
recording, we were talking 
about, you know, your journey 

389
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,520
and what you're up to nowadays. 
And you know, I was noticing 

390
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:04,200
because you're talking about 
this theme of. 

391
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,760
Basically, I was realizing that 
your values and beliefs and your

392
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:13,080
interests are all perfectly 
blended into the theme of this 

393
00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,400
podcast. 
You know, like you've taken all 

394
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,080
these different things that you 
come that you care about, right?

395
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:22,000
Like whatever finance, business,
psychology, growth mindset, 

396
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,800
you've taken all these all these
angles that have influenced you 

397
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,000
in your life and you compiled 
them into one podcast. 

398
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,920
Then I think another tip for 
young people and anybody really 

399
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,760
is like, you know, you will 
naturally gravitate towards what

400
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,800
you care about. 
And it's for me, like I, I 

401
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,880
started this is getting really 
complicated now, but when I 

402
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,720
started my PHDI was just happy 
to be there because I had gotten

403
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,960
almost rejected from all PhDs 
and I just wanted to be 

404
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:51,280
successful. 
That's all I wanted. 

405
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,560
I wasn't thinking about, Oh, I 
want to study social behavior 

406
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:54,960
anymore. 
It didn't matter. 

407
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,160
It was just like, I need to just
be successful. 

408
00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,000
That's I need to, I need to 
regain the lost ground that 

409
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,480
I've, that I've lost, right. 
And so I ended up joining this 

410
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:07,640
research lab and started working
there for in about a year in it 

411
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,560
occurred to me that I was 
studying autism spectrum 

412
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,120
disorder, that I had joined the 
lab because they were a 

413
00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:14,840
productive lab. 
And I thought, this isn't the 

414
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:16,920
lab that's going to give me the 
best shot at being having a good

415
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,600
career. 
But I found myself, I had carved

416
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,280
out this little niche of 
studying social behavior without

417
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,120
even thinking about it. 
It was just like my gut and my 

418
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,000
subconscious mind had sort of 
geared me into this direction of

419
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,560
doing what I love. 
And I think, you know, I got 

420
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,280
this fortune cookie years ago 
that I always think of that 

421
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,720
says, look for the dream that 
keeps coming back. 

422
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,120
It is your destiny. 
And that's kind of what I think 

423
00:21:40,120 --> 00:21:43,440
about with your podcast and with
my journey and, and with just 

424
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,960
with your journey and like this 
person telling you like, oh, why

425
00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:48,040
you're a finance guy? 
Why are you talking about this 

426
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,240
stuff? 
Like, or why are you going into 

427
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,720
media like that's that's you. 
That's that's what makes you who

428
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:55,840
you are. 
That's what makes you unique 

429
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:57,840
and, and what you care about. 
That's what your brain is 

430
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,480
interested in. 
And you're naturally suited to 

431
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,400
put out good materials on this 
because people, people like what

432
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,240
they're good at. 
People are, they're naturally 

433
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:07,960
driven to the people, the things
that they excel at. 

434
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,760
And so if you are good at 
something and you're have 

435
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,960
interesting ideas about it, your
podcast is going to do well and 

436
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,960
look at where you are. 
So I think, you know, follow 

437
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,920
that dream to the listeners, you
know, like, listen to your gun 

438
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,080
and listen to your heart because
it's it's telling you your 

439
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:25,560
destiny. 
Maybe if my fortune cookie was 

440
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,760
right. 
Well, I love and respect to you,

441
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:34,040
you know, absolutely love how 
you you framed it so, so 

442
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,880
beautifully. 
It's interesting. 

443
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,680
You're welcome. 
I tell people this, right? 

444
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:42,960
There's potential and there's 
credentials. 

445
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,280
When you're younger, you you 
judge based on your potentials. 

446
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,320
But as you grow older, you get 
judged based on your 

447
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,720
credentials. 
But you don't want to be a 

448
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:57,440
person who has, you know, 
massive potentials but little 

449
00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,760
credentials. 
And a lot of people suffer from 

450
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,280
this bandwagon effect, you know,
wanting to do what other people 

451
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:04,640
are doing. 
You are not other people. 

452
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,520
You're yourself. 
And I think a lot of people get 

453
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,800
discouraged by the opinions of 
other people. 

454
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,160
It's crazy. 
Think about it like if I had 

455
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:19,440
listened to that person at that 
time saying do not do 

456
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:25,320
podcasting, I wouldn't be here 
speaking with, you know, one of 

457
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:30,480
the greatest scholars of my 
generation, you know, today. 

458
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:32,200
Think about. 
It I'm honor for you to say 

459
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:32,880
that. 
Thank you. 

460
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,440
To walk and I think about my 
body of work. 

461
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:42,200
I've spoken to, you know, people
that are highly successful from,

462
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,840
you know, different parts of the
world in your neck of the woods.

463
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,040
I spoke on people who weren't in
school and have it, you know, 

464
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,360
for it. 
It's really mind blowing. 

465
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:55,320
People who are #1 in the world, 
you know, at whatever ease that 

466
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,240
they're doing. 
And if I listen to, you know, 

467
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,080
that person saying do not do 
this, what would happen? 

468
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,880
So I don't know, like what what 
would you say to the people out 

469
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:10,760
there in terms of, you know, 
sticking to their guns and 

470
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,800
believing in themselves? 
And if you're able to maybe 

471
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,520
butchers that with a personal 
story of yours in a situation 

472
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,440
where you wanted to go for 
something or somebody said 

473
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,840
otherwise apart, you talk to 
your gods, your instinct and you

474
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,080
know, went for it and he was 
successful. 

475
00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:33,040
Yeah, for I, you're bringing up 
something immediately, you know,

476
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,400
so I've always been really 
ambitious, which is probably 

477
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,960
clear from my story. 
And, you know, the career path I

478
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,400
chose, you know, and, and I like
to reach for things. 

479
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,160
I like to set goals and, and get
after them. 

480
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,560
And just for everybody listening
and yourself included, you know,

481
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,040
I, I wanted to make it very 
clear. 

482
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,160
I was completely full of anxiety
all the way along that journey I

483
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,800
just described. 
Imagine how it felt when I 

484
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:58,880
didn't get into that school that
I wanted to. 

485
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,560
And I realized, Oh my gosh, like
I was horrified for my future. 

486
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,480
And I was and I was motivated to
keep on reaching and keep on 

487
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,720
reaching. 
And so I don't want everyone to 

488
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,360
think, you know, oh, this guy is
just full of confidence and he 

489
00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:12,200
believes in himself all the way.
No, you can. 

490
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,040
It's it's going to be normal for
you to experience that for sure.

491
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,160
But an example of what you're 
talking about when I was working

492
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,520
at Stanford, this is very 
personal, but I don't mind 

493
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,520
sharing personal things. 
When I was working at Stanford, 

494
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,960
I was seeing this therapist 
because I was, and I was talking

495
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:30,080
to her about exactly what we've 
been talking about here, that 

496
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:34,120
I'm, I want so badly to just 
succeed in my career and I'm so 

497
00:25:34,120 --> 00:25:37,400
afraid of setbacks. 
And I've always been like, I 

498
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,160
want to be the best at this, you
know, I want to be like the 

499
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,960
number one scientist, whatever. 
You know, I've always just been 

500
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:46,840
ambitious like that. 
And this, this therapist, she 

501
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,080
told me basically, it's OK to be
average. 

502
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,160
She was like, if you, you know, 
I, I bought this book something,

503
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,960
something about basically it's 
OK to be average. 

504
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,440
And I gave it to my son and he's
reading it because I want people

505
00:25:58,440 --> 00:25:59,920
to understand it's OK to be 
average. 

506
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:05,640
And I was like, that's really 
comforting advice, but that's 

507
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:10,080
not what I want. 
That's I had to listen to my 

508
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,360
heart, which was telling me, 
yeah, you're reaching for 

509
00:26:12,360 --> 00:26:16,720
something so far away and it's 
stressful because you want it so

510
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,400
bad and you don't know what 
you're going to, if you're going

511
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,600
to get it or not. 
And so sure, it would be so much

512
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,560
easier to say, you know what, 
I'm OK with not getting it. 

513
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,640
I'm OK with being average. 
But that's not the journey that 

514
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,120
I wanted for myself. 
That's not what I how I view my 

515
00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:31,200
life and how I view myself, you 
know, I want to reach. 

516
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,400
And if I fail, I fail, but I 
don't think I'm going to fail. 

517
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,080
And that's a big part of it, by 
the way, is just being 

518
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:36,960
optimistic and having that 
growth mindset. 

519
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,680
And I remember just, you know, 
this was right when I joined 

520
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,760
Stanford and I was dealing with 
that imposter syndrome that I 

521
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,960
described. 
And I remember like three years 

522
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:52,000
after that, I was in, I don't 
know, Iceland or Italy. 

523
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,080
I've been to Portugal. 
I've been flown out to give 

524
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,200
talks. 
And I thought, Can you imagine 

525
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,680
if I had, if I had just decided,
yeah, I want to be average. 

526
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:02,360
Like, I wouldn't have achieved 
this for myself. 

527
00:27:02,360 --> 00:27:03,680
I wouldn't have experienced 
this. 

528
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,680
The satisfaction of attaining 
that goal that I wanted so bad. 

529
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,680
And that's what drives me. 
Is this the satisfaction of 

530
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,360
setting a goal and then working 
my way to it? 

531
00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:16,920
I love the feeling of progress. 
And I, I don't think I would be 

532
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,360
happy if I, if I just said, you 
know what, I'm going to stop 

533
00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:21,120
reaching. 
It's, it's not what's meant for 

534
00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:25,560
me. 
And so my advice to anybody is 

535
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,600
to basically like set goals and 
figure out what you want, right?

536
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,080
If by setting a goal, you can 
learn a lot about your 

537
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,320
preferences and what you want 
from life, you know, because if 

538
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:36,840
you're setting a goal and it's 
like, all right, I'm a 

539
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,040
scientist. 
My goal is to win a Nobel Prize.

540
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:40,880
You know, it's like, OK, that's 
a lofty goal. 

541
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,840
Like, I don't know, 0.0001% of 
scientists win the Nobel Prize. 

542
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:47,520
I'm making that up. 
But it's really, really, really 

543
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,320
small. 
That was my goal when I was 

544
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,480
young, by the way. 
I'm now smart enough to realize,

545
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,520
or I guess wise enough to 
realize that that's never gonna 

546
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:54,600
happen. 
I'm never gonna win a Nobel 

547
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:55,520
Prize. 
I'm OK with it. 

548
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,120
But if your, if your goal is 
like, I wanna win a Nobel Prize,

549
00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:02,600
OK, good. 
Like hunt after that, right? 

550
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,280
Make that your journey. 
Make that your, your meaning of 

551
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,440
life, right? 
But if your goal is like I, I 

552
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,040
just want to like, take, have, 
make enough money to take care 

553
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:13,600
of my parents. 
It's like, OK, there's a lot of 

554
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,280
routes that you can take to that
goal, right? 

555
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:19,600
Like you don't have to be as 
hungry as devoted, but identify 

556
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,080
sort of your ambition levels 
and, and what your dreams are. 

557
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,760
Because to me, that is one of 
the sort of meanings of life. 

558
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:29,520
I think like if anyone ever 
asked me, what do you think the 

559
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,800
meaning of life is? 
For me, it's about telling 

560
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,880
yourself this is what I want and
going and getting it, carving 

561
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,480
that journey for yourself, 
right? 

562
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,720
I think of it like a, like a 
board game, right? 

563
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,360
It's like you get to pick your, 
your player and where they go 

564
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,600
and which direction you're 
headed or what kind of player 

565
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:46,920
you want to be like. 
That's life. 

566
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,360
You get to live 100 years and 
take whatever journey you want. 

567
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:55,000
And I think it's, I get sad when
I think about people who kind of

568
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,440
just float in that journey and 
they don't steer their own 

569
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,160
journey. 
And I think it's important, 

570
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,880
especially as young as you can 
be, the younger, the better to 

571
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,520
start thinking about where is 
that dream and how do I get 

572
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,640
there? 
Because for me, that's the most 

573
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,400
satisfying thing in the world. 
And that dream can change, by 

574
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,000
the way. 
So don't worry, mine has 

575
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,600
changed. 
That's called P13. 

576
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,960
You know, along the journey of 
life, I remember a particular 

577
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:26,240
lecturer, you know, when who 
taught me in my professional 

578
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,720
accounting classes on strategy. 
He said, you know, that 

579
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,000
different types of strategy and 
you know, strategy comes with 

580
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,680
planning. 
And some people have, you know, 

581
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,760
that's plan to be average. 
And you know, they say 

582
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:44,400
something, if you don't plan, 
you plan to fail. 

583
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,440
So not having a plan is a plan 
on its own. 

584
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,840
It's just a plan to fail. 
But you know, back to your point

585
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,640
on, you know, it's OK to be 
average. 

586
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,360
I don't like that idea at all. 
And you know, I'm grateful I was

587
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:02,400
able to read a book, alien life,
It's called Conquering an Enemy 

588
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,520
called Average by John Mason. 
I think I'll try to put the link

589
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,840
to that book in the description.
And of course, you should, you 

590
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:14,040
should give, give that book to 
your son as well because for me,

591
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,000
no, no, average is a no, no. 
Like I'm not born to be average 

592
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:23,080
in Nigeria. 
If you are to join the military 

593
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,200
and as a graduate from 
university, I thought about 

594
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,760
joining the military and about 
somebody told me that if you 

595
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,920
join the military as a graduate 
from university, you did not go 

596
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:38,040
to the combat school. 
You can never become a general. 

597
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:42,000
And immediately that dream just 
died. 

598
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,560
Like I will never join an 
organization where I can never 

599
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,120
rise to the top. 
No, no, no, no way. 

600
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,560
No way. 
And that has actually, like 

601
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,280
pushed me in terms of the way my
career has progressed. 

602
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,520
And when you join the big four 
accounting firms, they always 

603
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,400
tell you, you know, join us and 
associate. 

604
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,680
You can actually work your way 
up to become a director or 

605
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,280
partner, you know, having share 
of profit. 

606
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,440
Yeah, that's cool. 
That's interesting. 

607
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,080
You must always have that 
pathway, reasonable pathway to 

608
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,040
the top. 
And of course, you know, if you 

609
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,440
work, if you put in the work, 
right, you should get, you know,

610
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,200
certain expected results. 
That's what I like personally, 

611
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,600
but I stand to be corrected. 
But when when we come back to 

612
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,120
science, you know, the autism 
and of course our 

613
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,200
neurodevelopment are disorder 
disorders, right. 

614
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:36,240
Your PhD identified neural 
systems are regulating social 

615
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:40,120
behavior in autism. 
So looking at that field now, 

616
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:45,000
which therapeutic pathways seem,
you know, most promising? 

617
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:49,560
But you have gene therapies, 
epigenetic approaches, or the 

618
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:57,400
pharmacological tools like MDMA.
So which pathways actually would

619
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,480
I say are effective or efficient
in your opinion? 

620
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,680
Yeah. 
So when it comes to autism 

621
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:09,360
spectrum disorder, which is 
characterized by difficulties in

622
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,760
social interactions, there's 
nothing on the market right now.

623
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:18,040
If, if you or a loved one is 
someone who is on the autism 

624
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,440
spectrum and you suffer with 
social interactions and you want

625
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,760
to enhance your interactions or 
feel more comfortable in 

626
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:25,600
interactions, there's no 
options. 

627
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:27,960
There's nothing out there. 
And, and before I even go any 

628
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:33,000
further in this topic, I just 
want to mention that there are a

629
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,760
lot of people who are, you know,
in the autism community or 

630
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,280
they're on the spectrum, they 
have loved ones with autism and 

631
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:44,800
they're, the idea of the 
treatment is, it's just, it's a,

632
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,960
it's a terrible idea. 
It's basically that to treat 

633
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,600
this is to label it as a 
dysfunction and to say that 

634
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,120
there's something wrong with me.
But this is what makes me 

635
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,080
unique. 
And so I, I just want to qualify

636
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:02,520
that by just acknowledging that 
it is not my belief that 

637
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,680
everyone on the autism spectrum 
should have some treatment. 

638
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:05,680
That's not at all what I 
believe. 

639
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,040
In my PhD, though, I got to 
studying the biological basis of

640
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,720
autism and discovered, you know,
there are no treatment options 

641
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,840
for those who are struggle with 
their symptoms and want 

642
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,120
treatment. 
And that was sort of the focus 

643
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,040
of the lab. 
And so I got into studying like,

644
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,600
what are these brain systems and
how could they potentially be 

645
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,840
altered, which is interesting, 
altered to enhance sociability, 

646
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,280
I should say, which is 
interesting because it got 

647
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,720
exactly at the question that I 
was looking at when I was young,

648
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,400
which is like, how do you know 
if, if you could go into the, 

649
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,600
the table where the quiet kids 
are sitting and tickle a certain

650
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,040
brain system and make them feel 
like sitting with the, you know,

651
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:39,720
outgoing kids? 
Like, wouldn't that be 

652
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,240
interesting? 
What, what brain systems are 

653
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:42,400
there that, that do that? 
Right? 

654
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:43,920
It's such a fascinating question
to me. 

655
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,960
And so it turns out it's, it's 
very complicated and very 

656
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:52,880
molecular, basically. 
But I will say this, the root 

657
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:57,560
cause of autism in most cases or
many cases I should say, I guess

658
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:02,960
is genetic. 
And so it is possible that if 

659
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,960
done early enough, if like, 
because what happens is if you 

660
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:10,280
have a genetic mutation, so the 
gene is coded as it is. 

661
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,480
And then if there's a change in 
one of the base pairs, let's 

662
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,120
say, and it, each gene 
corresponds with a physical 

663
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,440
protein. 
So you have, you know, 30,000 

664
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,880
genes, 30,000 proteins floating 
around your cells or that, you 

665
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:24,960
know, you could have up to 
30,000 floating around your 

666
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:26,480
cells. 
And so I like to think of it as 

667
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,400
like a house. 
Let's use that analogy. 

668
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,920
So your cell, each of your brain
cells is a house. 

669
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:36,440
And like, you know, this book is
1 protein, right? 

670
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,000
Like this book serves a purpose.
Like this water bottle is a 

671
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:40,159
protein. 
It serves a purpose. 

672
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,560
And so there's a blueprint to 
build this water bottle. 

673
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,639
There's a blueprint to print 
this book. 

674
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,440
Those are the genes, right? 
So the genes are the blueprint 

675
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,920
and they build the actual like 
physical structures. 

676
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,480
And So what could happen is you 
can have a mutation in one of 

677
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:58,680
the genes which causes the 
blueprint to basically change. 

678
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,960
So let's say there's a mutation 
in the gene for this water 

679
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,160
bottle and it comes out and 
there's a hole in the bottom, 

680
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:05,960
and now it's no longer 
functioning as a water bottle 

681
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:07,440
because the water is draining 
out the bottom. 

682
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:09,680
That's sort of like what happens
in cells where if you have a 

683
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,400
genetic mutation, the protein in
your cell that's supposed to do 

684
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,240
something is not doing what it's
supposed to do. 

685
00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:17,760
It's it's functioning 
improperly. 

686
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,360
And that can change how brain 
cells are functioning in a way 

687
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,160
where if that change happens to 
be going on in a brain area 

688
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,120
involved in social interaction 
and the brain starts, that brain

689
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,600
area starts functioning 
differently, it can result in 

690
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:35,400
changes in social behavior. 
And so if this genetic change is

691
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,520
caught early enough, super, 
super, super early, like in the 

692
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:43,480
womb in it before, you know, the
brain has developed, could 

693
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:48,000
theoretically reverse autism 
spectrum disorder before it even

694
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,400
like begins. 
Very controversial idea though, 

695
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,200
of course, right. 
It's like if we're gonna do gene

696
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,000
therapy, if anyone's gonna do 
gene therapy, you know, the, the

697
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,400
first use case should be 
anything that's fatal, right? 

698
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,760
If there's someone, if you're 
gonna suffer from some condition

699
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,360
like like Huntington or 
something like that, 

700
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,680
Huntington's disease and you're 
gonna be struggling your whole 

701
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:10,040
life with with condition, you 
know, this, whatever it may be, 

702
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,360
and you're gonna die young. 
Those are the things that should

703
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,240
be used for gene therapy, autism
even even to propose that is 

704
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:17,240
super controversial to use gene 
therapy. 

705
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,960
But hypothetically, you know, it
would kind of make sense because

706
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:23,640
it's a genetic disorder in many 
cases. 

707
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:24,800
Now, the other thing you 
mentioned, it's like 

708
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,160
pharmacology, right? 
So you can use pharmacological 

709
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:32,960
agents, drugs, in other words, 
to target epigenetics, which is 

710
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:38,360
kind of sounds confusing because
epigenetics is how experience 

711
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,840
changes our, our gene 
expression. 

712
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,840
So expression being not the code
or the blueprint, but how many 

713
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:46,160
of these water bottles do I 
have? 

714
00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:49,320
You know, And so you could think
if I'm really thirsty, I might 

715
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,040
want to have ten of these water 
bottles around. 

716
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,680
And so I'll go to the store and 
get 10 of these bottles or I'll 

717
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:55,080
make 10 of them from the 
blueprint. 

718
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,360
That's how cells act, right? 
Like you have an experience, 

719
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,600
like my experience as being 
thirsty, I need more of these 

720
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:01,680
cells are the same. 
Something changes in the cell or

721
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,240
we need more of that or we need 
less of that. 

722
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,400
Let's change how many copies of 
that gene we're producing. 

723
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,680
That's epigenetics. 
And so while it would seem that 

724
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,360
only experience can do that, you
can actually there are 

725
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,920
epigenetic drugs that you can 
basically go in and manipulate 

726
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:24,160
the parts of the cell that make 
that change happen or manipulate

727
00:37:24,240 --> 00:37:28,360
the accessibility of the DNA. 
And there is some evidence from 

728
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,520
the lab that I was do working in
and some of my own research that

729
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,880
doing that and altering the gene
expression through a drug can 

730
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:40,160
change social behavior as well. 
And so that's, you know, a 

731
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:41,480
possibility. 
But again, none of these things 

732
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,720
are actually like demonstrated, 
right? 

733
00:37:43,720 --> 00:37:45,320
Like we haven't done this in 
human beings. 

734
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,760
We don't know if this is useful.
And then the last one though, is

735
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,280
MDMA. 
And I've also studied MDMA, but 

736
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:51,880
in a different context. 
And for those who don't know, 

737
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,480
MDMA is ecstasy, the illegal 
drug. 

738
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:59,280
But I in my postdoc working at 
Stanford, I was studying how 

739
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,920
MDMA enhances empathy. 
And if you're curious, if you're

740
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,880
neuroscientifically minded, it 
comes down to serotonin release 

741
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,360
in the nucleus accumbens, a 
certain brain area That's kind 

742
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:12,840
of irrelevant unless you want to
get into that. 

743
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,200
But, but what's interesting 
though, is that we actually, we 

744
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:20,480
found that in in mice with those
same genetic mutations that are 

745
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:24,720
linked to autism in humans, 
those mice socialize less. 

746
00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:27,520
They also show reduced empathy. 
We can test empathy in mice 

747
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:28,960
also. 
Happy to get into that if you 

748
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:33,640
want, but they show reduction in
social and empathic behaviors. 

749
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,640
And when we gave the mice MDMA, 
they became more social, they 

750
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:42,120
became more empathic. 
And I mentioned that MDMA's 

751
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,960
effects seem to be related to 
this serotonin release in the 

752
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,040
nucleus accumbens. 
Well, when we just know MDMA, we

753
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,760
just stimulated serotonin in the
nucleus accumbens. 

754
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:52,320
It had the same effect on the 
mice. 

755
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,800
So it's possible that that also 
could be an approach. 

756
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,440
You know, I actually personally,
I see that less as a like a 

757
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,960
therapeutic for autism. 
I see that more of a just 

758
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,240
empathogen, which is what you 
know, and empathogen is a drug 

759
00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:11,880
that's that enhances empathy. 
But I see that if we can target 

760
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,720
that system, it could be a 
useful tool for all of humanity.

761
00:39:15,720 --> 00:39:18,960
You know, I think that we are, 
we are living in a sort of 

762
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:23,440
unusual time right now. 
I would argue that the current 

763
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,160
era of humanity, at least in 
America, I'm not sure how it is 

764
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,520
over in the UK, but in America, 
it feels like we're really kind 

765
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,440
of living through an era of low 
empathy. 

766
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:33,760
And I think part of that is 
because we interact. 

767
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:36,120
Yeah. 
I think part of that is because 

768
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,280
we interact online a lot. 
I think part of that is because 

769
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,200
we're super politically 
polarized. 

770
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,080
And so, you know, we can get 
into this, but the brain's 

771
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,720
empathy systems are very 
sensitive to how we view 

772
00:39:46,720 --> 00:39:48,720
someone, whether they're on our 
team or not, basically. 

773
00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:50,880
And that can be anything. 
It could be their political 

774
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,240
affiliation. 
It could be their religion, 

775
00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:57,560
their race, their sexuality, if 
we see them as different from 

776
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,360
us. 
The brain scenarios that Dr. 

777
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,520
Empathy literally just like 
don't come online as much. 

778
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,440
They show less activity. 
That's significant. 

779
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:08,840
And I think, you know, in a 
world that's very politically 

780
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,520
polarized where you look at 
anybody, at least this is how it

781
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,560
is in America, You look at 
someone, you look at their 

782
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,320
clothes, you know, maybe they 
have a Red Hat on or maybe they 

783
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,160
have, you know, a blue shirt on 
or whatever it is. 

784
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,440
And you're like, oh, that 
person's on the other side. 

785
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,720
Empathy systems. 
Disengage and you basically view

786
00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:29,680
that person or your brain treats
that person as less of a person 

787
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,760
and that's really problematic. 
And so, you know, do I really 

788
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,560
think that we'll be given people
will be taking a drug to 

789
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:41,720
simulate their empathy? 
No, I mean, because how would 

790
00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:43,640
that even work? 
And it's another ethical 

791
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,760
concern. 
But but hey, maybe, you know, 

792
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,680
maybe not in a clinical context 
where it's like like going to 

793
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,960
this, you know, clinic and take 
this drug and you're gonna feel 

794
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,240
empathy. 
But wouldn't it be cool if there

795
00:40:56,240 --> 00:41:00,440
was like, like instead of going 
to the bar and drinking alcohol,

796
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,880
we went to a bar and drank in a 
pathogen, right? 

797
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,200
Something that stimulated 
serotonin release in the nucleus

798
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,840
accumbens, made us all feel a 
bit more connected and more 

799
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:12,960
empathic and you know, not to be
kumbaya, but like brought people

800
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:17,120
together and actually drove 
connection and community. 

801
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,040
I think that that'll be 
interesting. 

802
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,880
And the reality is we don't know
how to do that 

803
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,480
neurobiologically. 
But with the research that I did

804
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,400
at Stanford, we know a little 
bit more about how we might do 

805
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,280
that. 
And I don't want to, by the way,

806
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,480
before I go any further, I don't
want to say I just said how we 

807
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,880
might do that. 
I know there's a lot of people 

808
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:34,280
out there with opinions on 
science. 

809
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,680
I don't want people to think 
that there's like some secret 

810
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,200
scientific society controlling 
what you drink at the bar. 

811
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,120
There's not. 
Scientists have very little 

812
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,240
control over the real world. 
We could control what happens in

813
00:41:43,240 --> 00:41:45,200
our labs. 
But even when it comes to 

814
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,600
policy, public policy, you know,
we're very detached, 

815
00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:50,560
unfortunately, because I think 
scientists often have a lot of 

816
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,800
good ideas. 
But yeah, I mean, you know, our 

817
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,600
our goal is to discover new 
things so that humanity, whether

818
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,160
that's, you know, commercial 
entities like what if really, 

819
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,560
what if a drink came out, a 
brand came out that was like, 

820
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:04,200
you drink this and you're going 
to feel more empathy. 

821
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:05,440
It's, you know, there's no 
hangover. 

822
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:06,680
You can go to the bar and drink 
it. 

823
00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:08,560
People be interested in that, 
right? 

824
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:11,920
It's kind of interesting idea. 
Or if there was a clinical drug 

825
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,320
that people could take and 
enhance their empathy, you know,

826
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,880
or if what I always like to joke
about is half kidding. 

827
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,360
Wouldn't it be amazing if right 
before a political debate, the 

828
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,680
presidential debates, all of the
candidates had to take a drug 

829
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,200
that made them more empathic and
made them see the other person's

830
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,480
side a bit more? 
And so instead of going up there

831
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,200
and just hurling insults at each
other, they actually understood 

832
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,360
each other and had a real 
conversation about why they 

833
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,280
disagree. 
And not in a way that was 

834
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,560
hostile and violent and maybe 
not violent, but hostile and 

835
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:43,240
aggressive and sets this bad 
example for all of Americans to 

836
00:42:43,240 --> 00:42:45,440
think That's how I treat the 
people on the other side. 

837
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,440
So anyways, as you can probably 
tell, you know, I care about 

838
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:53,880
community and connection. 
And, you know, this is also the 

839
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,840
whole, the topic of my my whole 
book, which I held up earlier as

840
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,280
an example. 
But why brains need friends? 

841
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,840
I, you know, we need each other.
And I think that the more we can

842
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,880
understand the importance of 
that, truly, the healthier we 

843
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:08,440
will be. 
The research suggests that we 

844
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,320
will be healthier and we will be
happier as well. 

845
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:17,360
Wow, I'll tell you something. 
Let's say like minds always find

846
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,720
a way to connect. 
There's something I always see 

847
00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:24,920
on the podcast and it's links 
back to the title of your book. 

848
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,240
It is hate when you can't 
collaborate. 

849
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:32,160
Why hate? 
You know, it's crazy how people 

850
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:37,240
always find something to act as 
a differentiator. 

851
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:41,120
We are all human, we all bleed 
red. 

852
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:49,440
And it takes a high level of 
when I say certain ease, right, 

853
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:54,840
I tell people you can never 
function at a high level 

854
00:43:54,840 --> 00:44:01,000
capacity, right, if you don't 
have certain ease right at that 

855
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,120
high level. 
And what are the ES education, 

856
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:08,160
exposure, enlightenment and 
experience. 

857
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:18,240
So fees ease right from the 
level of capacity that a person 

858
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:23,160
can perform at intellectually. 
So a lot of times when I see 

859
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:28,360
people acting in a sub, you 
know, optimal way or an 

860
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:32,440
undesirable way, I, I, I feel, I
feel sorry for them. 

861
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,400
I feel empathy for them because 
the joke is not on me. 

862
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:39,920
The joke is on you, right? 
You get into an elevator, you, 

863
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,560
you try to be polite, you try to
be respectful. 

864
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:47,840
You see a greeting and you know,
some people just ignore you as 

865
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,800
though you don't exist. 
And you look at yourself, Am I, 

866
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,360
am I invisible now? 
It's crazy. 

867
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:58,520
Like what you said, people, you 
know, lack empathy in this age 

868
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,760
and time. 
I'm a very, very big enthusiast 

869
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:06,000
of AI and I'll just make the 
joke that it's like my parents 

870
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,920
knew the assignment. 
My initials are AII team. 

871
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:13,960
All I see there because, you 
know, I've used AIA lot, you 

872
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,960
know, in terms of enhancing 
efficiency for my company and of

873
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,800
course, green this podcast in 
university, I studied economics 

874
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,560
and that is, you know, the 
social sciences faculty and I 

875
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:29,480
was, you know, opportunity to 
take courses in psychology and 

876
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,120
sociology. 
You know, psychology is the 

877
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,840
study of the human mind and 
sociology is the study of human 

878
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,720
social behavior, social 
interactions. 

879
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,800
And it gave me that privilege to
be able to, you know, stand back

880
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:47,840
and be objective, you know, to 
observe and analyze, you know, 

881
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,040
absorb information like a 
sponge. 

882
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:54,120
And like I told you before we 
started the podcast, when I was 

883
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:57,560
in secondary school, I was just 
pure sciences, a student. 

884
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:02,000
So I understand that background 
from chemistry to biology to 

885
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:07,560
physics, and adopting the 
empirical method for reasoning. 

886
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,840
When you adopt the empirical 
method of reasoning, it makes 

887
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:15,640
you objective, right? 
And that's why I think in terms 

888
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:20,280
of basic education, people 
should I don't know what the 

889
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:24,360
policy makers are doing the 
people first to study the 

890
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:28,320
sciences, right, Because, you 
know, still part of the ease if 

891
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:33,720
your education is, you know, 
left wanting, it's difficult to 

892
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:38,440
have you operate at a high level
of critical reasoning. 

893
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:43,720
You know, philosophy has a 
branch called logic for a 

894
00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:47,440
reason, deep logic, arguments, 
critical reasoning. 

895
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:52,200
And when I think about I am 
privileged to have, it has made 

896
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:57,440
me to be able to operate at a 
high level in in society. 

897
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:00,480
I've been privileged to, you 
know, speak with. 

898
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,920
Brilliant minds, you. 
Know of my own time and you know

899
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,000
you look at my body of work 
having people from different 

900
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,640
walks of life from athletes to 
businessmen to scientists like 

901
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:14,760
yourself to healthcare 
practitioners and this is a guy 

902
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:21,280
from finance I have this debate 
right about the nature versus 

903
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:25,640
nurture and I want to put. 
It on you right now. 

904
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:30,280
Because you are the science guy.
What do you think? 

905
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,440
Or is there? 
Like a balance or hybrid or 

906
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:39,480
what's the bigger influence in 
terms of people's behaviors? 

907
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:44,560
Is it nature or is it nurture? 
It's it's got to be both. 

908
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:46,880
It's always both. 
In fact, well, actually, no, 

909
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:48,360
that's not true. 
It's not always both. 

910
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:49,840
So let me let me give you an 
example. 

911
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,480
Let's say, let's talk about 
empathy, right? 

912
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:59,800
Let's say you are born with a 
genetic change that 

913
00:47:59,960 --> 00:48:02,960
fundamentally alters how parts 
of your brain work. 

914
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:06,000
And let's say those parts of 
your brain are related to 

915
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,320
empathy. 
You will probably be diagnosed 

916
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,960
at some point in your life with 
a condition called psychopathy, 

917
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:19,880
where you are you lack empathy. 
That change was driven by a 

918
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,840
genetic mutation that happened 
to you when you were a cluster 

919
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:26,040
of cells, before you had a 
brain, you know, before you were

920
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:30,840
anything, before you encountered
the world and it it required. 

921
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,160
That you will. 
Develop with an absence of 

922
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,800
empathy. 
That's very much nature, right? 

923
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:38,800
And that genetic change could 
happen to anybody. 

924
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,240
It's just, you know, in that 
case it would be de Novo. 

925
00:48:41,240 --> 00:48:42,760
It's new. 
It happens randomly, 

926
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:48,680
spontaneously, very much nature.
But you could also not have that

927
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:53,000
genetic change and be born with,
you know, a brain that is like 

928
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:56,800
the average person's brain, but 
be born to. 

929
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:59,800
Parents. 
That are super unresponsive to 

930
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,680
your emotions. 
They don't show you hey, this is

931
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,520
how you react right? 
Like, and then it starts with 

932
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,200
very young children emotional 
mirroring, right? 

933
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,560
You smile and you laugh in the 
baby's face and the baby starts 

934
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:13,120
laughing and smiling in your 
face, right? 

935
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,120
And then when you, when the baby
smiles, oh, the parents start 

936
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:18,040
smiling and laughing too, 
because it's cute, right? 

937
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:22,080
This like emotional mirroring 
and the parents responsiveness 

938
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:26,120
to the child, to their emotions 
is a big part of shaping 

939
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:27,880
empathy. 
That's nurture, right? 

940
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:31,840
That's pure experience. 
And so you could be born with 

941
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:35,480
the exact same genes but have 
parents that are super 

942
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,320
responsive to your emotions or 
super unresponsive to your 

943
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:42,680
emotions end up with completely.
Different ways of. 

944
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,280
Perceiving the world and and 
experiencing empathy and 

945
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:46,720
experiencing other people's 
emotions. 

946
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:50,360
So it's gotta be both it. 
Has it's always both. 

947
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,080
I mean, and what, and basically 
the way I see the, the role of 

948
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:56,560
genes is that they're sort of 
like a funnel, right? 

949
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:58,720
So it's like you could be 
anything, right? 

950
00:49:58,720 --> 00:50:00,960
You could be anywhere out here. 
I'm not sure how much my, my 

951
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:02,640
body. 
You can actually see my hands 

952
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:05,240
are wide or if anyone's 
listening, I have my hands wide 

953
00:50:05,240 --> 00:50:07,000
out. 
You could be everybody could be 

954
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:11,080
anything, but your genes narrow 
that range to you. 

955
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:12,360
You could be something like 
this. 

956
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:13,960
And and it's for every trade, 
right? 

957
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:17,480
Your height, you might be 
anywhere between 5-6 and five 

958
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:19,920
eight, because that's the height
of your genetics, right? 

959
00:50:20,720 --> 00:50:23,240
Or your empathy. 
You might be really empathic or 

960
00:50:23,240 --> 00:50:25,280
you might be sort of empathic, 
but you're probably not gonna be

961
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,320
not empathic or you're how how 
sociable you are. 

962
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,800
You're probably gonna be not 
very extroverted. 

963
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,000
You'll probably be more 
introverted because that's what 

964
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,160
your genes, how they have shaped
your brain. 

965
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:38,680
That's all nature. 
But then you're born and you 

966
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:41,680
encounter the world and any of 
those things can change. 

967
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:43,520
I mean, maybe not height. 
I don't know about height, if 

968
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:47,680
that can change, but you know, 
like your your introversion, 

969
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:49,320
extroversion, right? 
When you're young, you might 

970
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:54,120
your, it might just so happen 
that your parents best friends 

971
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:57,800
had kids the same age as you. 
And so when from when you were a

972
00:50:57,800 --> 00:50:59,880
little kid, you always hung 
around others. 

973
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:03,560
And so your nurture, your 
experience caused you to start 

974
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:06,520
favoring social interaction. 
Even though your parents might 

975
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:09,560
be introverts, suddenly you had 
experiences that shaped you. 

976
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:14,400
And, and I think that we are all
this just beautiful, unique 

977
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:21,320
concoction of our experiences 
and where we come from, our 

978
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:24,000
lineage, our parents, their 
parents, their parents, their 

979
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:27,920
parents, this all is just 
uncontrollable. 

980
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:31,840
And and As for the. 
Argument of like free will 

981
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:33,760
versus. 
Determinism, you know, I think 

982
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:39,120
by the time our genes narrow us 
to that range and then our 

983
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:43,200
experiences narrow us even 
further, there's a very small 

984
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:47,320
area of wiggle room that we are 
basically able to operate 

985
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:49,840
within. 
And so it, that's kind of the 

986
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:53,240
Robert Sapolsky determinism 
perspective. 

987
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,600
And you know, I, I believe in 
that. 

988
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,560
I, I believe that we have free 
will, but I believe that our, 

989
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,640
our ability to exercise that 
free will is very much 

990
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:05,560
restrained by who we are and who
we are comes from what we've 

991
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:07,400
been through and what we, where 
we come from. 

992
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:10,440
And you know, it's interesting 
because I'll have, I'll have 

993
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:13,480
this happen to me all the time 
where like, you know, I'll, I'll

994
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:16,200
film a video for Instagram 
'cause I post like short form 

995
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:18,440
videos on, on social media about
neuroscience. 

996
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:22,280
I'll, I'll press play and I'll 
start talking and I'll record 

997
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:25,280
myself. 
And then I, you know, couple 

998
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:27,640
days pass by and I look back at 
the video or I maybe I don't 

999
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:29,760
even look back at the video. 
And I'm like, yeah, you know 

1000
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:31,320
what? 
I, I don't, I don't think I like

1001
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:32,840
that take. 
Let me redo this video. 

1002
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:34,640
And so I'll, I won't have a 
script. 

1003
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:37,640
I'll refilm the exact same video
and then a couple days later 

1004
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:40,520
I'll come back and I'll compare 
the 2 and it'll be like the 

1005
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:43,280
exact same video. 
Like I did not watch the video 

1006
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:45,560
before. 
I was not at all influenced, but

1007
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:48,800
the wording, the way I presented
it, the way I move my arms, it's

1008
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:52,560
like I only have so much wiggle 
room to act within. 

1009
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:55,560
And when I'm talking about it, 
you give me the the prompt of 

1010
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:59,560
talk about this topic. 
I'm probably gonna say almost 

1011
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:04,320
the exact same thing most of the
time because it's who I am and I

1012
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:07,680
might feel like I have free will
when I'm exercising that, but 

1013
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:09,640
it's it's like determined by who
I am. 

1014
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:11,560
And so it's got to be both. 
It's always both. 

1015
00:53:13,240 --> 00:53:17,000
You know when you have. 
An identical twin. 

1016
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,400
And of course the this has 
happened in real life. 

1017
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:23,480
You have identical twins who 
maybe by way of life 

1018
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:26,720
circumstances grew up in 
different environments. 

1019
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:31,480
They typically have different 
attitudes but tend to have like 

1020
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:35,000
similar talents. 
Interesting. 

1021
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,880
And you know. 
For me, I feel like the talent 

1022
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:44,120
is the nature and the attitude 
is the nurture. 

1023
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:47,160
Interesting. 
And there's something I always 

1024
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:51,000
say on this podcast, hard work 
beats talent. 

1025
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:52,680
When talent. 
Does not work hard. 

1026
00:53:55,440 --> 00:54:00,480
But when you're talented and. 
You work hard at the same time 

1027
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:03,640
you become unstoppable, 
unbeatable. 

1028
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:08,880
You know, I tell people about 
how growing up I felt like I was

1029
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:11,920
talented at music and talented 
at speaking. 

1030
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:17,680
The very first two books I ever 
bought with my own money were 

1031
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:24,280
books by Bill Kanecki, How to 
Win Friends and Influence People

1032
00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:31,320
and The Art of Public Speaking. 
So people, because of the nature

1033
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:36,600
of the education that I have in 
finance, you should think, oh. 

1034
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:40,640
Why are you going? 
Into the media, they you don't 

1035
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:46,080
know Jack about me. 
I grew up in a place in Nigeria 

1036
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:51,240
called Lagos and just right at 
the back of my parents house was

1037
00:54:51,720 --> 00:54:59,120
Dark Communications, that is the
company that owns the very first

1038
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:03,080
independent radio and TV station
in Nigeria. 

1039
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:09,240
Think about it right that just 
where the whole dream of 

1040
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:14,840
broadcasting came about. 
So I was exposed very early to, 

1041
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:20,080
you know, the media and that was
a very big influence. 

1042
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:23,720
You now go to university, become
a finance guy. 

1043
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:28,400
Even in university I used to, 
you know, MC events. 

1044
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:38,120
I did MC an event for a when I 
say a concert very in this this 

1045
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:41,560
guy that's really famous right 
now in Afrobeat. 

1046
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:44,640
His name is Shake. 
He went to my university and you

1047
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:47,240
know, it's it's crazy how people
have potentials. 

1048
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,840
And I never knew he was going to
be that that famous going into 

1049
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:54,680
the future. 
And I used to MC seminars, 

1050
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:59,480
conferences and, you know, left 
university. 

1051
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:03,040
But there's something we do in 
Nigeria called the NYSE, the 

1052
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:06,320
National Youth Service Corps. 
It's like a one year service to 

1053
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:08,400
your government, a paramilitary 
training. 

1054
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:13,520
When I was on the camp for that 
service, I was on something 

1055
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:16,000
called the Orientation 
Broadcasting Service. 

1056
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:21,080
Now you see the storyline. 
I've always taken communication 

1057
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:25,400
very seriously and I got into 
PwC, second largest accounting 

1058
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:28,600
firm in the world. 
I was always involved in, you 

1059
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:35,920
know, the trainings, teaching to
clients, right, Anything 

1060
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:39,880
involved in communication. 
I got into KPMG here in the UK, 

1061
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:44,000
find a way to always be involved
in presentations. 

1062
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:49,520
And you know, people not think, 
oh, you're a finance guy, you 

1063
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:52,840
shouldn't be in the media. 
But they don't realize that I 

1064
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,080
had made that conscious effort 
over time. 

1065
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:57,080
Oh, I, I think I left something 
out. 

1066
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:01,080
I was also involved in teaching.
I was a lecturer for 

1067
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:03,520
professional accounting 
students, right. 

1068
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:06,720
That actually helped to refine 
my approach. 

1069
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:09,000
And of course, you are a teacher
as well. 

1070
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:13,880
You'd agree with me that the 
highest level of communication 

1071
00:57:14,240 --> 00:57:17,520
is teaching something. 
Of course, you need to 

1072
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:21,560
understand it better than the 
average person before you can 

1073
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:25,080
teach it. 
If you, if you think you want to

1074
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:28,920
communicate something, teach it.
And then you know that. 

1075
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:31,960
OK, That's the highest level. 
Yeah. 

1076
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:34,120
Or if you want to think you want
to, If you want to learn. 

1077
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:35,800
Something right that'll happen 
to me. 

1078
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:37,480
I used to do that in my PhD all 
the time. 

1079
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:42,520
I would read a paper and the way
I would test myself, do I 

1080
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:45,240
actually, did I learn it? 
Did I actually figure out what 

1081
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:48,080
they were doing is I would, I 
would ask myself, all right, how

1082
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:50,640
would I teach this to someone? 
And you start telling, you know,

1083
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:52,560
you start imagining. 
OK, so this is what you know, 

1084
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:54,320
this is what the the study 
found. 

1085
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:56,760
And and you imagine, oh, well, 
they're probably gonna ask me 

1086
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:58,720
that question. 
And it's like, oh, shit, I don't

1087
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:01,280
know the answer to that. 
You know, let me go back and, 

1088
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:03,080
and study some more and see if I
can figure that out. 

1089
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:05,000
Absolutely. 
Absolutely. 

1090
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:07,800
When they ask you questions, it 
makes you think about the 

1091
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:12,840
concept from another perspective
and thinking. 

1092
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:14,360
About it from another 
perspective. 

1093
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:15,560
Helps you to understand it 
better. 

1094
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:18,000
Yeah. 
And by the way on this I meant 

1095
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:19,920
to say this in the. 
Beginning, we're talking about 

1096
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:22,600
like young people and, and 
learning and stuff. 

1097
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:25,280
Never be afraid to ask 
questions. 

1098
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:27,800
That is like the best thing you 
could possibly do. 

1099
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:31,280
I used to always be afraid. 
Oh, if I'm gonna ask this 

1100
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,120
question, I'm gonna look stupid.
They're gonna, they're gonna 

1101
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:34,920
know. 
Obviously I don't know the 

1102
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:36,640
answer to this and I'm gonna 
look so stupid. 

1103
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:39,640
You don't look stupid. 
What looks? 

1104
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:41,320
Stupid is if you. 
Don't ask the question. 

1105
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:43,960
And then five years later, you 
definitely should know that 

1106
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:47,040
information, but you don't know 
it because you never asked and 

1107
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:48,800
now you do look stupid because 
you're in a position where you 

1108
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:51,000
should know it for sure when 
you're learning and you're just 

1109
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:52,520
getting started. 
Or honestly, it doesn't even 

1110
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:56,240
matter if you're just getting 
started, if you ask people to 

1111
00:58:56,240 --> 00:59:00,240
help you, it shows humility and 
it also shows respect and it 

1112
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:02,680
just shows vulnerability and 
trainability. 

1113
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:04,240
And these are all great traits 
that you want. 

1114
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:06,920
Never be so worried about 
looking smart or looking a 

1115
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:09,000
certain way that you that you 
don't ask for help. 

1116
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:12,880
Super, super important. 
But there's also another point 

1117
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:15,280
that I wanted to comment on 
earlier. 

1118
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:18,840
You talking about the importance
of learning the, the nature of 

1119
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:21,000
empirical study, scientific 
study, right? 

1120
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:24,920
And this is how I live my life. 
I don't know if it's because I'm

1121
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:27,960
a scientist or not or if it's 
just the way I think. 

1122
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:30,680
But like, this is how I think 
about everything. 

1123
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:32,880
It's like I want to know the 
answer to something. 

1124
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:35,080
Show me the data. 
Let me what what are the data 

1125
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:36,800
say? 
And so like, here's an example 

1126
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:39,520
of this evidence based. 
Yeah, like you. 

1127
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:42,440
It just it will take your life. 
Like you want to live like a 

1128
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:44,760
genius. 
Like I always like to motivate 

1129
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:46,080
people with this. 
It's like, OK, if you want to 

1130
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:49,280
live like a genius, use science 
in your daily life because it 

1131
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:51,120
will. 
It'll help you just understand 

1132
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:52,120
the world. 
Here's an example. 

1133
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:57,280
So the other day I went to make 
a cup of water from my 

1134
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:01,720
refrigerator, and I have a part 
that dispenses water, and I have

1135
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:04,760
a part that makes ice. 
And so I make this cup of ice 

1136
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:08,240
water and it's cloudy. 
And I think, oh man, OK, 

1137
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:10,960
something's wrong. 
It's either the water or it's 

1138
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:13,000
the ice. 
How can I get to the bottom of 

1139
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:15,560
this? 
Well I can fill 1 cup with just 

1140
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:19,000
water and I can fill 1 cup with 
just ice and wait for the ice to

1141
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:21,400
melt and see which of these cups
is cloudy. 

1142
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:24,360
Like yeah, this may be seem 
obvious but what's the reason I 

1143
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:28,560
bring this up and explain this 
is because what empirical study 

1144
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:32,800
and following the data does is 
it unlocks the ability to take 

1145
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:38,400
your emotions out of it. 
Because I I may not want my ice 

1146
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:42,720
dispenser to be making cloudy 
water cloudy ice because I want 

1147
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:44,720
a pain in the ass and I have to 
fix my ice dispenser. 

1148
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:46,600
I just call it a handyman. 
I have to come pay all this 

1149
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:49,520
money to get it fixed. 
It would be much easier if if 

1150
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:52,400
maybe, you know, I accidentally 
the cup was dirty, it wasn't 

1151
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:53,920
properly cleaned by the 
dishwasher or something that 

1152
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:55,600
doesn't cost me money. 
It would be so much more 

1153
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:58,520
convenient. 
But if I do this experiment and 

1154
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:00,720
I get the answer, my emotions 
are out of it. 

1155
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:02,840
I'm not thinking about, oh, I 
really, I don't want it to be 

1156
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:04,240
this. 
It's like, that's what it is and

1157
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:07,440
I just deal with it. 
And I think trying to just 

1158
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:11,760
follow the evidence makes life 
so much easier because you're 

1159
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:15,280
not like you're never, you're 
never living at a knowledge 

1160
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:16,920
deficit. 
You're never trying to operate 

1161
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:19,160
in circumstances where you don't
know everything. 

1162
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:22,640
If you have a grip of what's 
going on, it just makes it much 

1163
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:26,080
easier to make decisions and to,
I don't know, move forward in 

1164
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:28,480
whatever direction you're going,
whether that's solving a problem

1165
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:31,200
or just trying to figure out 
which, you know, should I go to 

1166
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:32,400
this school or should I go to 
this school? 

1167
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:33,640
It's like, well, look at the 
data. 

1168
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:36,840
You know what, what's the 
percentage of people from that 

1169
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:38,720
school who land the job that 
you're interested in? 

1170
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:41,120
You know, like that kind of 
stuff is so important. 

1171
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:43,760
And another thing that's 
happening in America is we're 

1172
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:46,320
suffering from this truth decay.
That's what people call it, 

1173
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:49,160
where we're basically losing 
sight of what's true, right? 

1174
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:51,920
What is fact, What is 
information, what is reliable? 

1175
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:54,440
What's fake news, right? 
We, we're getting, it's really 

1176
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:57,640
hard to know what's real. 
And that's real scary because 

1177
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:01,560
how do you live a life and steer
yourself and take care of your 

1178
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:04,960
family if you can't trust 
information and we can't 

1179
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:06,840
fundamentally agree on what is 
fact. 

1180
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:10,400
So search for fact wherever you 
can and and use it to your 

1181
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:11,760
advantage because you'll be 
better. 

1182
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:15,080
You'll be more advantage than a 
lot of people who who don't rely

1183
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:18,320
on fact these days. 
I very much. 

1184
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:22,280
Appreciate what you've. 
Just said, of course I spent 

1185
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:27,480
about 8 years of my life in 
accountancy practice and what 

1186
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:30,360
was I doing? 
I was an auditor and what the 

1187
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:35,560
auditors do you know, verify 
information, you know, make 

1188
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:40,440
professional decisions and 
opinions. 

1189
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:42,760
Based on what? 
And verified facts. 

1190
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:47,960
And you know, this has actually 
like followed me in my life and 

1191
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:50,280
everything that I do, I follow 
the data. 

1192
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:53,640
And you know, when the data, you
know, in order we say something.

1193
01:02:54,240 --> 01:03:02,640
The most compelling form of 
audit evidence is reliable third

1194
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:06,480
party evidence. 
It's not about me. 

1195
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:10,360
Saying it when? 
I reached out to you and you 

1196
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:12,360
know was giving you updates, 
right? 

1197
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:15,640
I give you the obvious. 
From where? 

1198
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:18,480
Leasing. 
Notes and leasing notes is the 

1199
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:22,000
Google of podcasts, right? 
Listen notes is the world's 

1200
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:27,320
number one podcast and database 
with a public verification and 

1201
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:31,600
leasing notes says I am global 
to top 2.5% right? 

1202
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:35,080
I did not state that claim. 
You could go verify it right, 

1203
01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:36,760
right. 
It was easy for you to believe, 

1204
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:41,200
right? 
But if I came up and said I am 

1205
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:46,800
global, so and so you asked me 
who gave you that certification?

1206
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:51,400
Yeah, based on what, Right. 
So it's it's, it's you. 

1207
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:55,160
Know very important that, you 
know, we actually verify 

1208
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:59,040
information. 
People say, OK, somebody came 

1209
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:02,120
and told me the other day and 
said Nigeria has so and so and 

1210
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:04,560
so numbers and I'm like oh, 
where did you get that info 

1211
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:06,480
from? 
Then they were like, I saw it on

1212
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:10,640
TikTok. 
I'm like OK it. 

1213
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:13,120
Yeah, it's it speaks to what I 
have. 

1214
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:17,560
Said on this podcast before. 
We are in an age of the height 

1215
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:23,560
of artificial intelligence, but 
unfortunately we are also in the

1216
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:25,960
age of the height of human 
foolishness. 

1217
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:29,560
So I am not the neuroscientist. 
You're the neuroscientist. 

1218
01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:31,840
Why? 
Why is this happening? 

1219
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:34,160
What? 
What's responsible for this? 

1220
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:39,600
For, For. 
Do you mean for the lack of 

1221
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:42,880
trust in data? 
No, no. 

1222
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:47,200
So The thing is this right? 
I'm 33 years old, so I'm a 

1223
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:50,600
millennial and I remember 
growing up, you know, back home 

1224
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:54,160
in Nigeria, if wanted to get 
like. 

1225
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:57,080
Important information. 
A lot of times you need to go to

1226
01:04:57,080 --> 01:05:03,480
the library digging to, you know
that rabbit hole of boogs and. 

1227
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:06,840
Over time came. 
Google, you search and search 

1228
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:09,640
and search different, you know, 
databases, check for the ones 

1229
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:12,240
that are reliable. 
Now you have the likes of chat, 

1230
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:16,480
cheapity, cloudy eye, 
perplexity, you know, on and on 

1231
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:21,320
and on, right? 
And information is easily and 

1232
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:25,480
widely available right now in 
this agent time. 

1233
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:31,000
Yet people still easily spread 
false information and people are

1234
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:34,160
easily misinformed. 
And people find it very easy 

1235
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:38,800
right to spread information that
is false. 

1236
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:43,120
But why? 
I mean, you got to look at the 

1237
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:44,480
incentive. 
Structure, right? 

1238
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:48,320
So back in. 
I don't know, let's. 

1239
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:54,680
Say 2000, the year 2000, right? 
If a website comes out on the 

1240
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:57,800
middle of whatever, you know, 
they can buy a URL and they post

1241
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:02,040
a website and it contains fake 
information, what's the point of

1242
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:03,400
doing that? 
You know, no one's going to read

1243
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:05,920
your website, no one's going to 
trust your website, right? 

1244
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:10,680
There's no incentive to do that.
But now there's so many 

1245
01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:13,400
incentives built into misleading
people. 

1246
01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:17,280
And one of those it starts with 
social media that the 

1247
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:21,280
development of these 
recommendation algorithms where 

1248
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:26,080
now if you post juicy enough 
content that gets people to feel

1249
01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:29,640
some sort of emotion, that is 
probably going to be shown to 

1250
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:31,680
people who don't follow you, 
right? 

1251
01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:33,760
We have this like TikTok start 
of this and now it's on 

1252
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:36,040
Instagram and now it's on 
YouTube and all sorts of places 

1253
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:40,240
where you just sit back, swipe 
and it just feeds you content 

1254
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:41,160
that it thinks you're going to 
like. 

1255
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:42,360
You don't have to follow them, 
right? 

1256
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:45,200
And so for everybody on the 
other side of that equation, the

1257
01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:47,760
person cooking up the meals that
you're the, you know, the 

1258
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:52,080
content that you're eating and, 
and consuming, you have so much 

1259
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:56,000
incentive to do whatever it 
takes to get in front of that 

1260
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:57,240
person. 
Because if you get more 

1261
01:06:57,240 --> 01:06:59,920
followers and you get more 
likes, then you get brand deals 

1262
01:06:59,920 --> 01:07:02,560
and you get sponsorships and you
get fame and you have all these 

1263
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:05,640
incentives built into simply 
getting attention. 

1264
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:08,760
And what's the best way to get 
people's attention to make them 

1265
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:10,080
feel some sort of strong 
emotion. 

1266
01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:13,480
And often times what we see 
nowadays is that strong emotion 

1267
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:18,520
is shock or disbelief or rage, 
negative emotions and things 

1268
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:22,360
that either fear exactly things 
that make you step back and say,

1269
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:25,400
whoa, wait a minute, you know, 
that person's doing something 

1270
01:07:25,400 --> 01:07:27,760
horrible. 
I despise that person. 

1271
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:32,160
Or you know, or what? 
Whatever it is, social media. 

1272
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:36,240
Creators. 
Have every reason to say 

1273
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:40,200
anything whatever like or you 
can make up is always going to 

1274
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:42,000
be more interesting than the 
truth. 

1275
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:45,680
Because I could tell you, oh, 
you know, what's the prefrontal 

1276
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:47,480
cortex? 
Well, as neurons and they signal

1277
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:50,560
with glutamate and GABA, 
whatever, that's no one cares. 

1278
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:53,160
Or I can tell you in the 
prefrontal cortex, you know, 

1279
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:56,040
your neurons send around sour 
cream. 

1280
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:58,800
And so the more sour cream you 
eat, the more effective your 

1281
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:01,080
brain works. 
Like you can say whatever. 

1282
01:08:01,080 --> 01:08:03,360
And if people believe it, then 
you will start getting 

1283
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:04,920
attention. 
And that's really dangerous 

1284
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:07,080
because there's also no fact 
checking online. 

1285
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:10,200
There's no sort of regulations 
around misinformation. 

1286
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:13,920
And so, yeah, a big part of what
I do is I actually try to go out

1287
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:16,720
and find videos that are 
spreading misinformation. 

1288
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:18,680
And usually it's not very hard 
to find them because they have 

1289
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:20,720
millions of views. 
And I can just, you know, people

1290
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:22,120
will often send them to me as 
well. 

1291
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:25,200
And if it's getting a lot of 
views, then I'll go out and I'll

1292
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:27,720
make a video where I or I debunk
it where I explain, you know, 

1293
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:30,520
here's what's wrong about this. 
And I, I always try and do it in

1294
01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:34,279
a a very polite and not 
condescending way. 

1295
01:08:34,399 --> 01:08:36,479
Nobody wants to hear a 
scientist. 

1296
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:39,439
In a white coat talk down to 
them and say you're wrong. 

1297
01:08:39,439 --> 01:08:42,200
And here's why. 
And you know, neither do I, I 

1298
01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:44,200
didn't want that when I was 
studying, you know, I want it to

1299
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:47,319
be understood. 
And So what I try and do is just

1300
01:08:47,319 --> 01:08:49,600
basically lay out the facts and 
I take my emotions out of it 

1301
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:52,800
just like I do in my daily life 
and just explain, oh, here, this

1302
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:56,560
is not right in basically the 
heroes of studies and you know, 

1303
01:08:56,560 --> 01:08:57,600
believe whatever you want to 
believe. 

1304
01:08:57,600 --> 01:08:58,800
But here's the real evidence on 
it. 

1305
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:00,600
Here's what this what the 
evidence in the data say. 

1306
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:04,600
And, you know, I've been really 
fortunate to see that catch on 

1307
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:07,680
and people seem to really 
respect that and appreciate it. 

1308
01:09:08,279 --> 01:09:11,920
And it just speaks to how 
inaccessible good information 

1309
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:13,680
is. 
You know, the, the, the quality 

1310
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:16,359
of the information that you get 
online about neuroscience and 

1311
01:09:16,359 --> 01:09:18,800
psychology. 
Speaking as a neuroscientist, 

1312
01:09:19,319 --> 01:09:20,600
it's horrible. 
It's garbage. 

1313
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:23,960
There are some creators who you 
can trust that are real 

1314
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:26,479
neuroscientists and, and 
researchers and they actually 

1315
01:09:26,479 --> 01:09:29,680
spread good information. 
For every one person like that, 

1316
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:33,720
there's, I don't know, 10,000 
people who just start talking 

1317
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:35,920
about neuroscience in the brain.
And basically what they're 

1318
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:37,880
saying is just not, it's not 
based on real science. 

1319
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:40,640
It's based on something they 
read on a website or, you know, 

1320
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:43,120
something that they 
misunderstood or whatever. 

1321
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:46,840
And some of those people are 
just genuinely speaking from 

1322
01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:48,960
their heart and trying to help 
others and don't realize that 

1323
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:50,560
they're wrong. 
And some of those people are 

1324
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:53,200
intentionally misleading you 
because it benefits them 

1325
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:55,240
financially. 
And that's the that's the scary 

1326
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:58,080
part so far. 
This is like. 

1327
01:09:58,080 --> 01:09:59,680
The case of the blind leading 
the blind. 

1328
01:09:59,920 --> 01:10:04,840
But I'll just say one thing. 
I think it's the responsibility 

1329
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:10,360
of anybody consuming information
to verify the source of the 

1330
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:14,920
information. 
And it's really easy to know or 

1331
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:19,320
to ascertain if the source is 
reliable or not reliable. 

1332
01:10:19,320 --> 01:10:23,600
So I think for the viewers, for 
the audience, it's something we 

1333
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:28,880
should try consciously try to 
activate in terms of our 

1334
01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:32,520
attitude or our behavior towards
consuming information. 

1335
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:37,440
And you talked about it prefront
the the, the Cortex, right? 

1336
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:42,440
I do have a friend, Maya, it can
go in Abu Dhabi, very, very 

1337
01:10:42,440 --> 01:10:44,280
obsessed with the prefrontal 
context. 

1338
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:48,200
But before I ask the questions 
that she has sent to you, I am 

1339
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:51,520
going to ask you a question that
was sent to you by my partner. 

1340
01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:54,360
And she says this. 
She says from your perspective, 

1341
01:10:54,360 --> 01:10:58,320
what's the most exciting or 
surprising discovery about the 

1342
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:01,200
brain in recent years? 
We think for a minute, Oh my 

1343
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:02,440
gosh, there's so many. 
Let. 

1344
01:11:02,440 --> 01:11:06,600
Me give you 1 from my book that 
so you know when I wrote this 

1345
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:08,640
book so I I've been studying 
social behavior as a 

1346
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:12,040
neuroscientist for a decade now 
but when I wrote Why brains need

1347
01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:17,240
friends, I was doing a bunch of 
research on you know what 

1348
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:19,760
studies are out there and I 
learned a bunch of things and 

1349
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:21,760
this is one of the things that I
learned that completely blew my 

1350
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:25,440
mind. 
So when a mother is getting 

1351
01:11:25,440 --> 01:11:28,840
close to giving birth, she will 
produce. 

1352
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:30,560
Pulses of. 
Oxytocin. 

1353
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:33,680
And oxytocin is, maybe you've 
heard of it, the love hormone, 

1354
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:34,920
right? 
People think of oxytocin. 

1355
01:11:34,920 --> 01:11:36,880
They think of bonding and 
partnership. 

1356
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:40,280
And so when you hear that this 
oxytocin is being produced by 

1357
01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:43,080
the mother, you probably think, 
oh, that's her body and her 

1358
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:45,880
brain getting ready to meet the 
baby and form a connection with 

1359
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:48,000
the baby. 
But it turns out that's actually

1360
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:50,880
not the purpose. 
What's really happening is this 

1361
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:55,280
oxytocin produced by the mother 
goes, flows into the baby and 

1362
01:11:55,280 --> 01:11:59,160
into the baby's brain and 
influences those brain cells and

1363
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:02,320
lowers their activity. 
And the reason that that's 

1364
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:06,160
meaningful and that's that's 
happening is because when the 

1365
01:12:06,160 --> 01:12:10,560
baby is coming out of, you know,
being born and it's passing 

1366
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:13,760
through this tight canal, it's 
very likely that the baby is 

1367
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:18,080
going to have to deal with some 
restricted blood flow and 

1368
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:23,040
restricted oxygen. 
And so when when you have oxygen

1369
01:12:23,040 --> 01:12:25,720
not being delivered to brain 
cells, brain cells can die. 

1370
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:28,640
That's what a stroke is. 
And so how do you protect the 

1371
01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:31,800
baby's brain to make sure that 
brain cells start don't start 

1372
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:34,320
dying when there's little oxygen
flowing? 

1373
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:36,800
Well, you reduce the activity of
the brain cells. 

1374
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:39,240
You reduce their demand to how 
hungry they are. 

1375
01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:41,640
It's like if imagine if you're 
you're swimming, you're treading

1376
01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:45,360
water or you're drowning and you
could hold your breath for 

1377
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:46,880
longer, right? 
That's basically what it's 

1378
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:48,200
doing. 
It's allowing these brain cells 

1379
01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:51,720
to stay alive for longer. 
And it's basically a 

1380
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:57,680
neuroprotective system built 
into the mother, built into the 

1381
01:12:57,680 --> 01:13:01,560
bodies of human mothers and 
other animals too, to protect 

1382
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:04,520
the baby and its brain on the 
way out. 

1383
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:06,400
And I found that to be 
completely amazing because 

1384
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:08,240
studying in this field, I had 
never heard about that fact 

1385
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:09,880
before. 
That's not actually that recent.

1386
01:13:09,880 --> 01:13:13,240
You did ask me recent, but to me
that one's just like every time 

1387
01:13:13,240 --> 01:13:15,000
I I think about it, it's like 
it's mind blowing. 

1388
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:19,280
Like when we are born, we are 
already protected by the ancient

1389
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:22,880
wisdom of biology that's built 
into us. 

1390
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:24,760
Just incredible. 
Wow. 

1391
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:26,360
That is, it's not just mind 
blowing. 

1392
01:13:26,360 --> 01:13:29,640
That's brain. 
Blowing like this and it's yeah,

1393
01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:32,520
yeah, I am going to go into the 
prefrontal cortex. 

1394
01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:38,400
Our questions shout out to Maya 
Ikango from Abu Dhabi. 

1395
01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:43,160
So number one is, does the 
prefrontal cortex develop 

1396
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:48,720
differently depending on gender?
Oh man, that's a. 

1397
01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:51,000
Good question, you know. 
Honestly, I can't say for sure. 

1398
01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:55,280
I remember seeing some studies 
on this like a couple of years 

1399
01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:58,520
ago and I don't think I ever 
really got to the bottom of it. 

1400
01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:01,720
I'm sorry I can't give a 
definitive answer, but you know,

1401
01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:05,040
hey, this is also one of those 
things where you don't want to 

1402
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:06,960
look stupid asking and 
questions. 

1403
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:09,480
What kind of neuroscientist 
wants to come on a. 

1404
01:14:09,480 --> 01:14:11,240
Podcast and say I. 
Don't know the answer. 

1405
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:14,840
The answer is an honest one, one
that will actually say, look, I 

1406
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:17,320
don't you know this is the you 
have reached the limits of my 

1407
01:14:17,320 --> 01:14:20,160
knowledge. 
And I think that's also, by the 

1408
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:21,720
way, a good sign of who you 
should trust. 

1409
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:23,960
If you ask someone a question 
and they always have the answer 

1410
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:26,400
like this, absolutely I only see
something you. 

1411
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:30,600
Know I'm a professional, right? 
But I don't know all the 

1412
01:14:30,600 --> 01:14:32,880
answers. 
Yeah, I've had myself and that's

1413
01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:35,920
OK in knowing we had to. 
Get the answers if I need to. 

1414
01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:38,400
Exactly, exactly. 
Yeah, I could find that answer. 

1415
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:40,520
Maybe I'll check it out and I'll
I'll send it. 

1416
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:42,760
Yeah, of course. 
So that means that. 

1417
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:46,800
Automatically we should book a 
Part 2 for this. 

1418
01:14:47,680 --> 01:14:49,120
We can. 
So now you're gonna come back? 

1419
01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:50,440
You can come back with an 
advanced. 

1420
01:14:50,440 --> 01:14:54,600
Cortex Edition. 
Yeah, Prefrontal Cortex edition.

1421
01:14:55,000 --> 01:15:01,520
You said you're ready, so #2 is.
Does a stress or trauma inhibit 

1422
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:05,520
its function, particularly 
before it's fully developed? 

1423
01:15:06,920 --> 01:15:08,880
Interesting. 
Yes, so. 

1424
01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:09,880
I do know the answer to this 
one. 

1425
01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:14,440
Stress does influence the 
function of the prefrontal 

1426
01:15:14,440 --> 01:15:16,640
cortex. 
It's quite interesting, also 

1427
01:15:16,640 --> 01:15:19,520
based on some research done in 
my PhD lab. 

1428
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:25,080
So when in in short term stress,
couple days, couple hours, 

1429
01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:28,200
whatever, the the prefrontal 
cortex actually gets more 

1430
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:30,000
effective. 
It becomes better, like the 

1431
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:33,120
cells are are interacting more 
efficiently, which makes sense 

1432
01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:34,480
because you have to deal with 
some challenge. 

1433
01:15:34,480 --> 01:15:37,080
You need to be locked in right? 
You got to be capable of 

1434
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:40,680
processing the challenge. 
But with chronic stress over 

1435
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:44,080
time goes for weeks or months, 
the prefrontal cortex, the 

1436
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:47,040
function goes way down and the 
brain cells actually become less

1437
01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:49,600
effective at interacting. 
What, what's really happening 

1438
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:54,280
amazingly, is that the, the 
receptors on the neurons where, 

1439
01:15:54,280 --> 01:15:56,280
you know, brain cells are 
sending messages to each other, 

1440
01:15:56,600 --> 01:16:00,560
the receptors start going away. 
And so the brain cells actually 

1441
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:03,720
have trouble communicating with 
each other. 

1442
01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:05,360
And, and basically what that 
amounts to is that you're 

1443
01:16:05,360 --> 01:16:08,680
processing power and your 
computing power goes down South.

1444
01:16:08,680 --> 01:16:13,040
Chronic stress is bad. 
As for the timing, I don't think

1445
01:16:13,040 --> 01:16:19,000
it can, you know, impair, you 
know, I would say in the context

1446
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:24,600
of like normal ranges of stress 
will not necessarily change the 

1447
01:16:24,600 --> 01:16:27,560
function of your prefrontal 
cortex long term, but like 

1448
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:30,680
traumatic stress, like PTSD, you
know, really traumatic 

1449
01:16:30,680 --> 01:16:32,520
experiences. 
It could, I've been, I believe 

1450
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:35,000
there is evidence that that it 
does alter the, the function of 

1451
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:37,640
the prefrontal cortex. 
Interesting. 

1452
01:16:37,920 --> 01:16:41,040
So. 
There's a third question and. 

1453
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:44,200
That is. 
How is the prefrontal cortex 

1454
01:16:44,640 --> 01:16:47,200
different from other parts of 
the frontal lobe? 

1455
01:16:48,440 --> 01:16:52,320
I mean the prefrontal cortex is.
The most like evolved. 

1456
01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:53,080
It's like the. 
It's. 

1457
01:16:53,160 --> 01:16:56,040
The, it's the reason you have 
the frontal cortex and then you 

1458
01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:58,840
have the prefrontal cortex. 
The prefrontal cortex is even 

1459
01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:02,400
more for towards the front. 
And there's this general idea 

1460
01:17:02,400 --> 01:17:06,360
that like the further away from 
the brain stem you get and like 

1461
01:17:06,360 --> 01:17:10,720
this base level, the more 
evolved and, and fancy the brain

1462
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:13,680
area is. 
And so the prefrontal cortex, it

1463
01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:15,680
just, it has a lot of amazing 
functions that aren't 

1464
01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:18,240
necessarily seen in the the 
frontal cortex, like much more 

1465
01:17:18,240 --> 01:17:21,800
higher level cognition and being
able to understand people and do

1466
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:23,160
things that make us human 
really. 

1467
01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:26,720
But but The thing is the the 
prefrontal. 

1468
01:17:26,720 --> 01:17:29,680
Cortex is also like every. 
Brain area, it's like very 

1469
01:17:29,680 --> 01:17:30,880
distributed. 
There's all these different 

1470
01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:33,600
nuclei and brain and sections, 
you know, within the prefrontal 

1471
01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:37,200
cortex there's the dorsolateral 
prefrontal cortex and all these 

1472
01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:40,600
different subsets of areas that 
are all involved in different 

1473
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:42,600
things. 
And you know, the brain is just 

1474
01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:46,040
immensely complicated. 
But without a prefrontal cortex,

1475
01:17:46,040 --> 01:17:48,680
you know, we would not be as 
high functioning animals. 

1476
01:17:50,720 --> 01:17:52,680
I like. 
That I always say that. 

1477
01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:57,360
Human beings, we are animals, 
it's just that we are higher 

1478
01:17:57,360 --> 01:17:59,200
animals, right? 
And of course, we have the 

1479
01:17:59,200 --> 01:18:01,000
animals with the highest level 
of IQ. 

1480
01:18:01,040 --> 01:18:02,680
That is why we are able to 
dominate. 

1481
01:18:02,680 --> 01:18:09,080
So #4 is the prefrontal cortex 
is sometimes called the CEO of 

1482
01:18:09,080 --> 01:18:12,120
the brain. 
Why is that and do you agree 

1483
01:18:12,120 --> 01:18:17,160
with that? 
Interesting. 

1484
01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:19,920
You could. 
Say that you, I guess, I mean, 

1485
01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:22,120
there's a couple different CE OS
of the brain and actually the 

1486
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:24,920
nucleus accumbens that I 
mentioned earlier in the context

1487
01:18:24,920 --> 01:18:27,880
of MDMA is also one of those. 
But I would say, yeah, I guess 

1488
01:18:28,320 --> 01:18:30,680
the way I kind of think about 
the prefrontal cortex is it's 

1489
01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:31,880
like the babysitter of the 
brain. 

1490
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:34,000
You have all these brain areas 
that are just like impulsive and

1491
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:35,880
they're doing their job. 
And your prefrontal cortex is, 

1492
01:18:36,240 --> 01:18:39,880
is often like shutting off those
impulses and being like, wait a 

1493
01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:41,920
minute. 
But you know, before we slap 

1494
01:18:41,920 --> 01:18:44,560
this person in the face, let's 
think about this for a minute, 

1495
01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:47,160
you know, and it's kind of 
babysitting and keeping those 

1496
01:18:47,160 --> 01:18:50,200
brain areas in check. 
So yeah, in many, many, it is 

1497
01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:52,120
the CEO. 
But I like to think of the, the 

1498
01:18:52,120 --> 01:18:55,360
CEO of the brain sort of as the 
nucleus accumbens. 

1499
01:18:55,360 --> 01:18:57,640
Cause the nucleus accumbens is 
really in charge of like 

1500
01:18:57,640 --> 01:19:00,480
decision making or not in charge
of it, but it has a major role 

1501
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:04,840
in like deciding what things we 
pursue and what actions we do 

1502
01:19:05,160 --> 01:19:06,920
based on how much they benefit 
us. 

1503
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:09,160
And you know, I think that's 
kind of like the role of the CEO

1504
01:19:09,160 --> 01:19:12,560
really. 
So is it the CEO? 

1505
01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:16,000
Or the COO. 
I feel like the the the. 

1506
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:19,360
Nucleus to Cummins is the CEO 
and the prefrontal cortex is 

1507
01:19:19,360 --> 01:19:21,760
like the executive board, like 
the, you know, you have a board 

1508
01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:24,560
of direct or a board that's like
steering the company in the 

1509
01:19:24,560 --> 01:19:27,400
right direction. 
I feel like that's sort of those

1510
01:19:27,400 --> 01:19:31,120
two are combining to to make 
things work properly. 

1511
01:19:32,280 --> 01:19:33,960
OK, interested stuff. 
So. 

1512
01:19:34,480 --> 01:19:38,320
This particular friend of mine, 
Maya, she, she's very obsessed 

1513
01:19:38,320 --> 01:19:42,360
with the prefrontal cortex. 
And anytime she sees a person 

1514
01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:47,240
acting, you know, in an abnormal
way, she just says, oh, that 

1515
01:19:47,240 --> 01:19:50,320
person's prefrontal cortex is 
not properly developed. 

1516
01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:56,440
And she's told me before that 
the prefrontal cortex actually 

1517
01:19:56,440 --> 01:20:00,560
fully develops at the age of 25.
Is is is that true? 

1518
01:20:01,480 --> 01:20:03,680
Yeah, the prefrontal cortex, 
whether it's there's. 

1519
01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:07,920
Definitely not like a you you're
25, it's done. 

1520
01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:11,240
It's not really like that. 
It's more of that, you know, as 

1521
01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:14,240
you're getting older, your 
prefrontal cortex is continuing 

1522
01:20:14,240 --> 01:20:16,040
to be shaped by your 
experiences. 

1523
01:20:16,360 --> 01:20:19,920
That's really what that whole 
like your prefrontal cortex 

1524
01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:24,520
isn't done until 25 means. 
It means that unlike other brain

1525
01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:28,360
areas, your Pfc remains flexible
as you get older. 

1526
01:20:28,400 --> 01:20:32,080
And so, you know, it may not, it
may be 25 that you kind of get 

1527
01:20:32,080 --> 01:20:35,960
to that point or maybe a little 
bit later. 

1528
01:20:36,120 --> 01:20:39,840
You know, it doesn't really, 
it's not like a firm thing that 

1529
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:47,200
it's like boom, 25, you're done.
So great news we. 

1530
01:20:47,200 --> 01:20:52,720
Actually recently got the brand 
deal, the sponsorship and of 

1531
01:20:52,720 --> 01:20:55,840
course our partnership will 
better help, which is the 

1532
01:20:55,840 --> 01:20:58,880
world's leading online therapy 
brand. 

1533
01:20:59,120 --> 01:21:04,240
So I'd like to real quick when I
say your brain, pick the brain 

1534
01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:07,440
of a neurosurgeon on the 
importance of therapy. 

1535
01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:09,880
And what do you think about 
online therapy? 

1536
01:21:11,000 --> 01:21:12,960
Oh, I mean, I think like therapy
is huge. 

1537
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:15,600
You know, I, I see a therapist 
proudly. 

1538
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:18,760
I think more people should be 
proud about the fact that they 

1539
01:21:18,760 --> 01:21:21,480
do see a therapist. 
You know, it's like people are 

1540
01:21:21,480 --> 01:21:24,400
really eager to share that they 
go to the gym, right? 

1541
01:21:24,400 --> 01:21:27,520
Because it's like going to the 
gym is seen as this good thing. 

1542
01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:29,520
It's like, oh, you're working on
your body, like good for you. 

1543
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:30,960
You know, therapy is working on 
your brain. 

1544
01:21:30,960 --> 01:21:33,000
It's like you're you're going to
the gym for your brain, right? 

1545
01:21:33,000 --> 01:21:35,520
You're working on your mood, 
you're trying to improve your 

1546
01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:36,600
well-being, you're trying to 
grow. 

1547
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:39,960
And so, you know, I have no 
shame in sharing that I go to 

1548
01:21:40,200 --> 01:21:42,960
see a therapist and, you know, 
and some days I go and I'm like,

1549
01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:44,640
honestly, I got nothing to talk 
about right now. 

1550
01:21:44,960 --> 01:21:47,040
Like everything's good. 
I'm, I feel good and that's 

1551
01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:48,080
fine. 
You know, sometimes you go to 

1552
01:21:48,080 --> 01:21:49,480
the doctor and you're like, 
everything's cool. 

1553
01:21:49,520 --> 01:21:51,640
But other days I'm like, Oh my 
gosh, thank goodness I have this

1554
01:21:51,640 --> 01:21:53,280
session because it's really 
important. 

1555
01:21:53,280 --> 01:21:57,360
So I, you know, I think, I think
therapy is obviously important 

1556
01:21:57,360 --> 01:21:59,320
and there's obviously tons of 
research showing that it's 

1557
01:21:59,320 --> 01:22:02,480
effective and helpful. 
Having a good therapist matters.

1558
01:22:02,480 --> 01:22:06,280
And and also, you know, As for 
the online component, you know, 

1559
01:22:06,280 --> 01:22:12,400
I prefer generally, you know, 
when possible in person, but but

1560
01:22:13,040 --> 01:22:15,200
for a lot of people in person 
has a bunch of problems. 

1561
01:22:15,440 --> 01:22:19,480
One, it's less accessible. 
Yeah, sometimes it's it's not 

1562
01:22:19,480 --> 01:22:20,160
easy to. 
Get to a. 

1563
01:22:20,160 --> 01:22:22,040
Place like, you know, you might 
not, you might be in the little 

1564
01:22:22,040 --> 01:22:24,640
in the middle of a therapy 
desert where you don't have 

1565
01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:27,040
access to a therapist. 
You know, if that if that's true

1566
01:22:27,040 --> 01:22:30,320
or you have access to therapist,
but you don't really enjoy any 

1567
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:32,280
of the therapist nearby. 
So that's another benefit. 

1568
01:22:32,280 --> 01:22:34,880
And the other thing too, is also
when you have a therapist and 

1569
01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:37,280
you have to go into the office, 
you may not feel comfortable 

1570
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:40,040
going to the office if you're if
you're not a person who's proud 

1571
01:22:40,040 --> 01:22:42,520
to be in therapy and you're 
worried that you might see 

1572
01:22:42,520 --> 01:22:44,080
others. 
So I think you know, what was it

1573
01:22:44,080 --> 01:22:45,120
like? 
Better help are great. 

1574
01:22:45,120 --> 01:22:48,040
I mean, the fact that you can 
see a therapist online is like 

1575
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:50,240
that's a new thing for humanity.
I think it's a good thing. 

1576
01:22:51,880 --> 01:22:54,040
I absolutely. 
Would I say? 

1577
01:22:54,240 --> 01:22:56,640
I appreciate the kind of work 
that Better Help Out does. 

1578
01:22:56,880 --> 01:22:59,520
It's, it's interesting, you 
know, when I look at my body of 

1579
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:04,200
work, I've seen a lot of videos 
wherein I have, you know, spoken

1580
01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:09,040
very heavily and assessively 
about the importance of therapy 

1581
01:23:09,040 --> 01:23:13,240
and having better help reach out
to me to to be a brand 

1582
01:23:13,240 --> 01:23:17,560
ambassador or to be a partner 
feels like a validation for what

1583
01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:19,720
I stand for. 
And you know, it's really great 

1584
01:23:19,720 --> 01:23:24,160
as a creator to, to represent a 
brand that aligns with your 

1585
01:23:24,160 --> 01:23:27,160
philosophy. 
I think that's the best form of 

1586
01:23:27,160 --> 01:23:29,680
partnership. 
Let's talk about your book. 

1587
01:23:29,680 --> 01:23:31,520
It's coming out very soon, 
right? 

1588
01:23:31,520 --> 01:23:35,520
And of course, again, I want 
assigned, you know, a copy of 

1589
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:37,280
your book. 
It's interesting you got a book 

1590
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:40,760
that's similar to yours, right? 
Right here by Professor Bruno 

1591
01:23:40,760 --> 01:23:42,640
Signako. 
He gave me this book. 

1592
01:23:42,720 --> 01:23:45,720
And of course, he was on the 
podcast earlier this year and 

1593
01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:49,720
he'd sign the book. 
So I would appreciate your your 

1594
01:23:49,720 --> 01:23:51,440
autograph, you know, your 
celebrities. 

1595
01:23:51,440 --> 01:23:55,480
Of course I would love to. 
OK, yeah, your book. 

1596
01:23:56,600 --> 01:23:59,120
What is it about? 
And, of course, what are you 

1597
01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:02,560
trying to achieve with it? 
And why should the audience buy 

1598
01:24:02,560 --> 01:24:04,840
the book? 
Yeah, well, the book is called. 

1599
01:24:04,840 --> 01:24:06,120
Why? 
Brains need friends. 

1600
01:24:06,120 --> 01:24:09,640
And it's, as the title suggests,
it's about the neuroscience of 

1601
01:24:09,640 --> 01:24:12,920
social interaction and basically
what we get from social 

1602
01:24:12,920 --> 01:24:16,320
behavior, social connection. 
And you know, I think the reason

1603
01:24:16,320 --> 01:24:18,640
I wrote the book is because 
they're all these stats out 

1604
01:24:18,640 --> 01:24:20,320
there that were becoming more 
isolated. 

1605
01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:24,480
We're not spending time with 
others as much, and that's often

1606
01:24:24,480 --> 01:24:26,800
framed as a very negative thing.
And it is. 

1607
01:24:27,360 --> 01:24:30,320
But I don't think people fully 
appreciate the significance of 

1608
01:24:30,320 --> 01:24:34,040
what we actually stand to lose 
from being isolated and what we 

1609
01:24:34,040 --> 01:24:37,120
actually stand to gain from 
being socially connected. 

1610
01:24:37,480 --> 01:24:40,760
And so my goal with this book 
was to basically take all of 

1611
01:24:40,760 --> 01:24:44,360
this massive mounds of 
neuroscience research that has 

1612
01:24:44,360 --> 01:24:47,680
accumulated over decades and 
decades, including, I've been 

1613
01:24:47,680 --> 01:24:51,080
fortunate to contribute some of 
it myself and put it all in one 

1614
01:24:51,080 --> 01:24:53,680
place that the average person 
can read and understand and walk

1615
01:24:53,680 --> 01:24:58,680
away and say, OK, I actually 
need to consider socializing as 

1616
01:24:58,680 --> 01:25:01,360
a fundamental component of my 
well-being. 

1617
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:04,560
And I, I think people don't 
really do that enough, but it's 

1618
01:25:04,560 --> 01:25:06,040
important. 
It really makes a difference. 

1619
01:25:06,040 --> 01:25:08,840
And it's, it's just like going 
to the gym or having a clean 

1620
01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:10,600
diet or getting enough sleep. 
You know, it's one of those 

1621
01:25:10,600 --> 01:25:11,840
things that we really need to 
do. 

1622
01:25:12,160 --> 01:25:15,000
And, you know, I'm my goal with 
this book is, is that after 

1623
01:25:15,000 --> 01:25:18,160
reading this, people will 
appreciate that they will live 

1624
01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:20,280
healthier lives and they will 
live more connected lives. 

1625
01:25:20,280 --> 01:25:23,960
Because I am worried also about 
not just what the distance 

1626
01:25:23,960 --> 01:25:27,240
between us is doing for our 
health, but what it's doing for 

1627
01:25:27,240 --> 01:25:29,840
our societies. 
And I think that, you know, 

1628
01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:33,760
maybe by by helping people 
appreciate the biological 

1629
01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:37,360
significance for you, right? 
You are, as I've discovered 

1630
01:25:37,720 --> 01:25:40,560
through my life of falling in 
love with neuroscience, You are 

1631
01:25:41,120 --> 01:25:43,400
the person how is within this 
organ, right? 

1632
01:25:43,400 --> 01:25:46,120
And this organ loves interacting
with others. 

1633
01:25:46,120 --> 01:25:47,600
It needs interacting with 
others. 

1634
01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:51,640
And so, you know, if I can get 
people to understand that the 

1635
01:25:51,640 --> 01:25:54,080
way I learned about it as a 
neuroscientist and came to 

1636
01:25:54,080 --> 01:25:57,400
appreciate it, I think we would 
have a much healthier, happier 

1637
01:25:57,400 --> 01:25:59,960
society. 
So I, I really, you know, and 

1638
01:25:59,960 --> 01:26:03,920
my, and my sort of secret quiet 
goal is I really, I want to sort

1639
01:26:03,920 --> 01:26:09,160
of address this world that we 
find ourselves in. 

1640
01:26:09,160 --> 01:26:11,080
Where we do have. 
Less empathy. 

1641
01:26:11,080 --> 01:26:12,600
We're not really feeling 
disconnected with others. 

1642
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:15,280
You know, I think if if people 
understood what it really means 

1643
01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:19,480
to be connected, then we 
wouldn't maybe be as quick to 

1644
01:26:19,480 --> 01:26:23,480
put our differences between us 
well at this point. 

1645
01:26:23,480 --> 01:26:25,640
I feel like. 
You should actually make me a 

1646
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:29,440
brand ambassador for your book 
because it just completely 

1647
01:26:29,440 --> 01:26:31,600
aligns. 
You know, we are Nigeria. 

1648
01:26:31,760 --> 01:26:34,440
Big shout out to Nigeria. 
There's a flag of Nigeria. 

1649
01:26:34,760 --> 01:26:37,880
I'll just have my flag handy. 
The Yoruba people say carrying 

1650
01:26:37,880 --> 01:26:42,440
cap or yeni Yeni. 
It means when we walk in groups,

1651
01:26:42,440 --> 01:26:44,600
right? 
It brings honor to us as a 

1652
01:26:44,600 --> 01:26:48,680
people. 
If you want to go far, I walk 

1653
01:26:48,680 --> 01:26:50,280
alone. 
But if you want to go further, 

1654
01:26:50,320 --> 01:26:53,640
move with people, right? 
And, you know, there's a reason 

1655
01:26:53,640 --> 01:26:57,200
why the brain, you know, is in 
the head, Tell people because 

1656
01:26:57,200 --> 01:27:01,040
it's, you know, it's meant to be
the leader of the body. 

1657
01:27:01,040 --> 01:27:05,640
If you know, the creator of the 
universe, you know, wanted the 

1658
01:27:05,640 --> 01:27:09,840
brain to be somewhere else, he 
would have put it somewhere 

1659
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:13,720
else. 
So it's important that we ensure

1660
01:27:13,720 --> 01:27:18,360
that we, you know, perform 
activities that would enhance 

1661
01:27:19,040 --> 01:27:21,040
that brain. 
Like you said, rightly said, we 

1662
01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:25,000
train our bodies, right? 
But a lot of times we don't do 

1663
01:27:25,000 --> 01:27:27,760
enough to train the brain. 
And I really appreciate your 

1664
01:27:27,760 --> 01:27:30,160
body of work. 
So the quick fire round are 

1665
01:27:30,160 --> 01:27:33,840
before we let you go, we, you 
don't get to see neurosciences 

1666
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:36,000
every day. 
So let's milk out everything we 

1667
01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:39,480
can milk out of you. 
Quick fire round. 5 sharp 

1668
01:27:39,480 --> 01:27:43,520
questions, 5 sharp answers. 
Are you ready to rumble? 

1669
01:27:44,280 --> 01:27:45,200
Let's do it. 
I'm ready. 

1670
01:27:45,920 --> 01:27:49,880
OK, number one, what's the most?
Misunderstood fact about the 

1671
01:27:49,880 --> 01:27:53,840
brain you wish everyone knew 
left. 

1672
01:27:53,840 --> 01:27:57,800
Brain, right, brain people have 
differences in how they behave 

1673
01:27:57,800 --> 01:28:01,200
and stuff, but studies show that
there is not actually like the 

1674
01:28:01,200 --> 01:28:02,800
average person. 
You put them in a brain scanner,

1675
01:28:03,000 --> 01:28:05,400
they don't have a dominant side 
of the brain. 

1676
01:28:06,560 --> 01:28:11,800
Yeah, I love that because. 
I have personally been that 

1677
01:28:11,800 --> 01:28:16,000
person that has trained, you 
know, both sides, you know, as 

1678
01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:18,760
covered. 
It's it's kind of like a 

1679
01:28:18,760 --> 01:28:21,040
fallacy. 
It's basically how you train it.

1680
01:28:21,360 --> 01:28:23,520
You can do anything you want to 
do and you can be anything you 

1681
01:28:23,520 --> 01:28:27,440
want to be. 
TikTok or Stanford lecture hall.

1682
01:28:27,440 --> 01:28:30,600
Where do you feel you make the 
bigger impact? 

1683
01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:34,080
Gosh. 
TikTok. 

1684
01:28:34,800 --> 01:28:37,120
Honestly welcome. 
To the TikTok generation. 

1685
01:28:37,120 --> 01:28:42,760
One book or paper that changed 
the way you see neuroscience for

1686
01:28:42,760 --> 01:28:47,000
me to publish or to read. 
Or that. 

1687
01:28:47,200 --> 01:28:51,360
Changed your perspective on On 
Neuroscience, a book that I, oh 

1688
01:28:51,360 --> 01:28:55,880
I see behaved. 
By Robert Sapolsky and also Live

1689
01:28:55,880 --> 01:28:58,200
Wired by David Eagleman. 
Both both really good. 

1690
01:28:58,200 --> 01:29:00,160
Those are my top two favorite 
neuroscience books. 

1691
01:29:01,360 --> 01:29:03,520
Interests and stuff I think. 
We should have that in the. 

1692
01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:07,600
Description section Yeah. 
OK, so what's your go to 

1693
01:29:07,600 --> 01:29:11,920
practice for protecting your own
mental health as a scientist 

1694
01:29:12,040 --> 01:29:16,120
creator, exercise? 
Lifting weights. 

1695
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:18,560
I love that. 
And of course if. 

1696
01:29:18,560 --> 01:29:22,280
You could collaborate with any 
scientist, past or present. 

1697
01:29:22,280 --> 01:29:26,360
Who would it be and why? 
You know, I'm going to give a 

1698
01:29:26,360 --> 01:29:29,160
really kind of. 
Unexpected answer. 

1699
01:29:30,040 --> 01:29:32,440
There's a researcher named 
Doctor Ronald Duman. 

1700
01:29:32,760 --> 01:29:37,480
I applied to his lab to do a 
postdoc and he is an amazing 

1701
01:29:37,480 --> 01:29:41,360
scientist, neuroscientist, and 
he passed away of a heart attack

1702
01:29:41,480 --> 01:29:44,040
the year that I applied to be in
his lab. 

1703
01:29:44,400 --> 01:29:46,240
And so I never got to work with 
him. 

1704
01:29:46,240 --> 01:29:48,800
And I think, you know, I have a 
lot of respect for him and his 

1705
01:29:48,800 --> 01:29:51,920
work and was sad to see and 
learn of his passing. 

1706
01:29:51,920 --> 01:29:54,080
And it would be awesome to 
collaborate with him. 

1707
01:29:55,680 --> 01:29:57,600
Rest his soul. 
Wow. 

1708
01:29:58,120 --> 01:30:00,040
And that is the end of. 
Today's. 

1709
01:30:00,160 --> 01:30:03,920
Session there's something I 
always say, you know, gratitude 

1710
01:30:03,920 --> 01:30:06,440
is good attitude and when a 
person shares their life with 

1711
01:30:06,440 --> 01:30:08,360
you, the time with you, they 
share their life with you. 

1712
01:30:08,600 --> 01:30:12,520
Of course, the SI unit for 
measuring life is time. 

1713
01:30:12,520 --> 01:30:16,680
So for me, it's immense and 
intense gratitude, love and 

1714
01:30:16,680 --> 01:30:19,560
respect to you and of course to 
the audience. 

1715
01:30:19,800 --> 01:30:24,960
Guys, I have a neuroscientist 
here do the needful right? 

1716
01:30:24,960 --> 01:30:28,400
So go share like comments, you 
know, subscribe. 

1717
01:30:28,920 --> 01:30:33,160
If you don't do that, I think 
we'll we'll tell him to adjust 

1718
01:30:33,160 --> 01:30:39,160
your prefrontal cortex. 
Guys, you know, conceive belief.

1719
01:30:39,240 --> 01:30:41,280
Strive to thrive and of course, 
go achieve. 

1720
01:30:41,600 --> 01:30:44,120
Before you run, do you want to 
leave a shout out to anybody 

1721
01:30:44,880 --> 01:30:47,080
before we say goodbye? 
I just want to shout out all the

1722
01:30:47,520 --> 01:30:49,040
mentors that. 
I've had that have, you know, 

1723
01:30:49,040 --> 01:30:51,720
trained me and and showed me the
way when I had questions. 

1724
01:30:51,720 --> 01:30:54,720
I think, and, you know, to the 
younger people, the people 

1725
01:30:54,720 --> 01:30:56,840
arising through their careers, 
find those mentors, you know, 

1726
01:30:56,840 --> 01:30:58,960
find those people who will 
answer your questions because 

1727
01:30:59,440 --> 01:31:01,600
those are your guides. 
Those are, you know, you will 

1728
01:31:01,600 --> 01:31:05,320
appreciate those people when you
are in their seat helping the 

1729
01:31:05,320 --> 01:31:07,440
next generation. 
So I appreciate those who lend 

1730
01:31:07,440 --> 01:31:09,840
their hand to me. 
Wow, I love that. 

1731
01:31:10,640 --> 01:31:13,160
Curiosity. 
Curiosity to say it kill the 

1732
01:31:13,160 --> 01:31:15,200
cat. 
What satisfaction brought it 

1733
01:31:15,200 --> 01:31:19,200
back for me and Doctor Ben? 
It's goodbye and God bless you 

1734
01:31:19,200 --> 01:31:19,520
guys.