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it, sometimes the best investment you can make these in
yourself. Luke, Mike Hazels, you write
about accepting the apology you never got.
Yes, yes. So why is this important for
personal piece and how can people practically apply it?
OK, so accepting the apology you never got, it does go back to
what I said to you being responsible for your own actions
and your contributions in a situation.
And I believe that this particular title included in my
book, It Goes Well, boils down to being responsible for your
own emotions. Do you see?
I mean, we live with imperfect people.
We're talking about this today. Isn't it about imperfection?
And that, you know, I'm not perfect, you're not perfect.
And yeah, we live with imperfect people every day.
And they're going to hurt you intentionally or non
intentionally. They're going to hurt you.
Do you see? They will say things or they
might do things without knowing that they are hurting.
But there's some people will do it knowingly.
But then are they going to apologize?
No. Would they even realize that
they've hurt you? No.
So what do you do in such a situation?
So that's what brought about that title for me.
Accept the apology we never got. Because then that way you you're
able to move on because you're going to come.
You're going to come across people in life who are going to
hurt you 100%. Even the closest people to you
will hurt you. But they might not realize that
they've hurt you, or they might know that they did, but they
might not see the need to apologize.
But they feel justified. Yeah.
So it's more of than taking control of your own emotions and
saying, you know what? I'm going to move on from this.
I'm accepting the apology that I never got.
Yeah. So it's more like protecting
your own mind space, taking responsibility, protecting your
mind space. That's correct.
And in the course of, you know, studying your body of work,
right? I don't know if this is
deliberate or if it is not a deliberate action, right?
And I'm gonna point this out to you.
Yes, the, the word of God, the Bible is, you know, the bedrock,
the foundation, right? But do you also realize that you
have also done a great job in adopting principles across
different, you know, fields such as psychology, sociology,
philosophy, right? You've been able to make, you
know, the social sciences, you know, quite well and also
logically, as I am. Oh, well, you know, would I say,
well read or vastly read individual, right.
And I've, you know, studied across, you know, the social
sciences. I wasn't a faculty of social
sciences, you know, doing university courses in economics
and psychology and sociology, in demography, in statistics,
right. So you touch on things relating
to finance, for example, I'm a finance professional, so.
I understand, I see where. People are stating principles
that are consistent, right? And there's something with
philosophy, right? It's something called arguments
and critical reasoning, right? There are arguments that are
solid. There are arguments that are are
a fallacy, right. If your premises right leads to
a reasonable conclusion, it means you are being logical.
You're following a logical sequence and I see that logical
sequence. So would you say it's a
deliberate effort from you, you know, mixing principles on
psychology, mixing principles from sociology, for example,
because mine is a social animal, you touch a lot on social
interactions, right? So basically you are taking, you
know, principles from sociology into your body of work as well.
You're taking, you know, philosophies, right?
You know logical reasoning right into what you're doing.
So talk to us about it. It was it a deliberate effort or
it's something that just came together on its own?
I. Mean I've read several books,
you know, and like I said, there's principles that govern
the different areas in our lives, you know, and people have
written books about it, you know, So if you want to zero in
on a particular subject, then you can read like for example,
about habits. You know, we are creatures of
habit. But then if you want to build
good habits, you have books that can guide you in that direction.
You know, the Bible also talks about the fact that God has
given to us all things that pertain to this life and to
godliness. So even the principles of
finances, marriage, you know, raising children, etcetera.
It's all in the Bible. Do you see?
So some things that I do include and references and quotes from
other people when you really, really think about it, but it
all boils down to what was said originally in the scriptures.
You know, like if you find a lot of motivational speakers talk
about giving a lot, they talk about helping other people.
So a lot of these motivational speakers talk about if you want
to be great, if you want to be a personal value, which is
something I'm very, very passionate about.
You know, it says seek to be that value so that you can add
value to others. Do you see and it's something
that Jesus came and said when you first came, you know,
preaching his message about love God with all your heart and then
love your fellow man as yourself.
Do good to the next person. So when all those principles,
when you when you think about it, the origin is from the
scriptures was the Lord said he's given us everything that
pertained to this life and to godliness as well.
So honestly, I wouldn't I can't say I've touched on any
psychology like intentionally I may have through reading, but I
wouldn't know that I'm actually coming from a psychology side,
you know, unlike yourself, maybe you might recognize some of the
things because you studied it, but I wouldn't intentionally.
Yeah, yeah, because I never did study psychology that.
Is making sense. Yeah, but I did study theology.
Oh. Yeah, I studied theology but not
psychology and maybe do touch on it because some principles, you
know, they do kind of crossover into other areas, intersect,
intersect. That's it.
Yeah. So let me put you on the spot
then. I am very scientific as much as
I'm a man of faith, right? So I think and that probably
comes from, would I say excessive studying?
Yes. Faith.
Yeah, they say faith with how it.
Works is dead. Yes, right.
Absolutely. And I love the way you're
dropping the scriptures today. You know, I mean, you did tell
me, you know a lot of scriptures, but it's as if
you're saving a lot of them to drop them today.
OK. Just.
Just OK, just. Just for the records.
Right, I did graduate from the School of Disciples Reading.
Christianity. You did.
You mentioned it. I'm a Bible scholar.
Yes, yes, you mentioned. And actually as a teenager I did
with the whole of the Bible, Genesis, the revelation.
So when this he studied tissue that he's ever proved, I have
dubbed put in my time. I've done my time, I've paid my
GS. I've read the whole Bible sound.
Like that's it, then you're done.
No, no, no, like. I'm saying that it shouldn't be
surprising. When I pull out these references
right? I well, I didn't know.
I knew you knew scriptures, but I didn't know it was this deep.
Yeah. Like, I think it's a whole year
of my life going to like theology school, right?
So tell me why? It's like you've been surprised
Why I. Understand finance being a
chartered accountant. Why I don't put it out there
that I, I, it's not on my CV, right?
But I did go to the school. OK.
So. Honestly.
I don't wish my parents school fees.
I think I remember. Was it?
Yeah. My parents actually just pushed
me into it. Like OK, go and do this thing,
OK? I know, I know it.
Sometimes they want you to have a solid before you can start
doing Pinterest. So so no problem.
I'm done dude. So like.
I've, I've always been a nerd, yeah, as a kid.
So I grew up as a skinny kid, right?
So. As I was studying.
That's a good thing, that's a good thing, and a very good
thing came out of it too. Oh, wow.
Thank you. Yeah, Yeah, Thank you.
Yes. I I guess my parents will be
happy, but you know, for. Me, I I don't know.
I OK, there's something we did in what's it called law business
law. They say Nemo Judex in courses
were a man cannot be a judge in his own case, right?
Or I think I'm being a judge in my own case right now.
I feel like I tried. I do a good job in achieving a
balance between my belief in science and my belief in the
Christian faith. So I I'm a very strong believer,
but at the same time I followed the principles of science.
I'm very empty people, you know, in terms of my judgement and
also by work my professional training as as an auditor,
right, like 2 of the global peak for accounting firms, right?
So basically gives you a particular kind of structured
mindset, right, to think and you evaluate things based on
verifiable data, right? So for me, achieving a balance
of science and recent faith, did you think therapy, speaking to
professional therapists is a good thing for individuals that
are present? Like what are your thoughts on
it? I'm sorry to put you on a hot
seat, but. Wasn't the whole thing so?
What do you think about therapy? Because I, I, I usually make
this joke about me growing up in Nigeria.
You grew up in Zimbabwe, right? I see a lot of similarities
between Zimbabweans and Nigerians.
Zimbabweans are quite superstitious set of people.
Nigerians are also superstitious.
Tell me which kind. Of Nigerians, Nigerians are very
religious. Zimbabwe is a very religious
right. It's it's quite funny how.
It's like an African thing. Yeah, but Zimbabwe?
Is on another level because you hear Zimbabwe names like trust
in. God confidence believe I would
like congratulations I've. Never heard of that one.
Thank God, the lightning God, God, God.
You know their name. It's.
In the language in in the native language, right?
Not not the English language. In the dating language and in
the English language. And I'm like.
But it's a good thing though. You need.
Be. Thank God, thank.
You Jesus. No way the Zimbabweans that do
the most. Makes a, makes a.
Good, but. But how about congratulations?
How about congratulations? I've never heard of that one
before, this is my first time hearing it.
You ever heard? This is my first time hearing
it, but I think any name we've got attached to it.
I mean, you have a better chance than one without it.
You have a better chance. OK, OK, we've got all these are
possible, so. OK, so.
Therapy. Yeah, therapy.
Yes, as in is it a good thing or just to clarify your question?
Like, what's your stance on it? Because Africans, right?
Yeah. And I like to make that joke
about, yeah, Nigerians, Zimbabweans, Africans, basically
the African mentality basically is they are not open to people
speaking to therapists. And unfortunately, we don't like
to take mental health, you know, very seriously if you have a
mental health. Issues they will like go and
read your Bible or go and pray like well I literally do a
Zimbabwe. Friend that told me, oh, I
sustained an injury at work and then I'm like OK, have you
spoken to your GP about it? Like OK, talk to a physio
because I have done physio. I've seen chiropractors who have
actually helped improve my own personal health.
So when I'm talking to you telling you to see a physio like
I am saying this because I've exploded and you guess what the
person told me said no, I've prayed about it and you know the
shoulder is relieving me. I'm like what?
Because you're a science, do you?
Know what internal injuries and cost you.
You're telling me you've prayed about it itself?
You see the physio 'cause. I know what muscle injuries can
do to you and. And I get and I and I get.
It are you telling me you have prayed about it so?
I, I get where you're coming from, Ade, You see, I, I get
where you're coming from because remember you did say you're like
a, a science guy. You try and find that difference
in that balance. But then you see the Bible also
talks about each man shall live according to his faith.
You see, it's a good thing to seek therapy to see the doctor,
but it's also according to your faith.
Do you see? You know, it's like my.
Parents generation, right? The thing with my.
Parents generation is a lot of them, I think when I tried to
psychoanalyze them, suffer from a lot of untreated on healed
traumas because they did not open up to therapy, right And
they held up to religion. I think religion was like an
Ave. for them to to deal with a lot of, you know, their mental
health challenges. That's why you see a lot of
people in church, you know, and a lot of people I, I think the,
the pastors are even like being overwhelmed, taking up, you know
what I say challenges that they probably shouldn't typically be
dealing with because yes, there are spiritual, you know,
challenges, there are physical challenges, right?
You're speaking to a pastor who probably studied guidance and
counseling, right? Or probably.
Let's even change that. Ghana's counselor is good.
Apostle studies theology, right. And this is also good.
Yeah. Right.
But this pastor doesn't have any idea about, like, certain health
problems, for example, mental health problems.
I think student psychology, for example, talked about, you know,
you deal with people who are schizophrenic, right, who have
personality disorders, for example, like, so a person like
myself will probably be better equipped, you know, interacting
or providing advice to certain individuals, right?
But we overwhelmed pastors who were probably not very well
equipped in terms of understanding certain problems,
right? And you know, the only
recommendation is you pray, pray, pray, pray, pray.
All right, can, can, can I? Oh no.
Please, please address the issue.
Defend your African people. Yes.
So having been in the church for 21 years now, I've come to learn
that with the Lord you walk with him with wisdom.
When you walk closely with the Lord, it's it's not a case of or
we just pray, pray, pray, pray, pray.
We don't walk in ignorance. You see, when you walk in God's
principles, you know as well that you need to be be educated.
You know, you did mention a scripture earlier that started
to show yourself approved. So when you study, you will come
to an understanding of certain things you see.
And when you walk closely with the Lord, you're also able to
discern, you know, to be, you know, you're able to know
whether it's a situation where you need to go to the hospital,
you need to go and get medication because God also
heals through medication. So my church, for instance,
which is an awesome church, by the way, you know, they teach
the, the truth in its most balanced form.
So when you need medication, you're going to get medication.
If it needs prayer, we pray. Do you see?
And there's, and that's why as as I mentioned earlier, having a
mentor, they also know how to guide.
So they won't tell you that, OK, just go and pray.
OK, just go and pray because because they hear from the Lord.
Remember I mentioned to you earlier that you need a mentor
who hears from the Lord Because they hear from the Lord, they
can then also advise you accordingly.
You see, that's not just a case of oh, because in church we
pray. Just pray about everything.
Did you get my point? Let.
Me ask. It's not.
So it's not all churches. I know many churches.
And also one thing I wanted to ask just very quickly, very
quickly. Some pastors may the congregants
pastor dependent, which is not a good thing.
They're supposed to equip the believer to stand in the Lord
for themselves. Do you see now?
So that's the difference. So now the reason why they're
most churches are inundated with, oh, I've got this, I need
to heal from this. I need to, you know, I need help
with this and that, I mean, it's not a bad thing.
People can go to the pastors for help, for prayers, for healing.
But then if they leave the congregants to be dependent on
them, that's what ends up happening.
But whereas in my church, for instance, they teach you to seek
the Lord for yourself and know him for yourself.
Do you get it? So when things come up, you're
able to actually pray yourself through and you also get the
wisdom to know what to do in any given situation.
I I. Feel like you're fortunate?
To be in a church where you have educated leaders.
Very educated. Leaders.
They're enlightened. Not just enlightened, that's
posed. 2. And they are noted.
They're blessed. So you're just simply blessed,
right? Amen.
But unfortunately. Not everybody's as best as you
are. But then I'm gonna add more fuel
to this fight. I'm gonna add more fuel to this
fight. Zimbabwe.
Nigeria. Like right and me being a social
scientist that I am right, sometimes I just observe from
the flats, right observe, you know, social dynamic, right?
I observe goings on right, in social institution, right, and
social situations now in Nigeria, and I think that it
should be similar to what happens in Zimbabwe as well.
There are a lot of individuals who are neuro divergent, for
example, people with ADHD, people with autism, right?
Yeah, that autistic, right. And you know, it's a spectrum.
So for some people they are, you know, severely affected, Some
people are mildly affected, right?
Some people moderately affected. Right now, when individuals are
neurodivergent, the the traditional African perspective
is usually to dismiss them or to regard them as, you know, on
feet, you know, individuals. I don't see that help, you know,
that understanding of these conditions, right until lately,
I think maybe with my own generation.
And then the Jazzy's, right, people are more exposed to like
enlightenment about, you know, mental health challenges, about
people being different. You've been neurodivergent
doesn't necessarily mean that you are abnormal, right?
But in the days of, you know, my parents and you know, my
grandparents, right, Such individuals were typically
dismissed as abnormal, right? In Nigeria growing up, right,
when I was in primary school. It's, it's quite, you know,
unfortunate how if you're not good at mathematics or good at
setting, you know, courses and you score 0 year test and the
teachers will basically shame you, tell the other kids to
label you as something called ulodo, meaning you are a dumb
head, right? And that's psychologically
damages a lot of individuals, right?
So really like, what's your own take on how individuals who are
neuro divergent right, can be helped?
Can you know, because there are, we have special needs schools,
right? And not even all individuals
need to be in session, need schools like with advancement
in, you know, technology and psychology for training of
teachers, I think people better understand these conditions and
these individuals are being given better support, right, in
order to achieve excellence in life, right?
Right of the Church. Yes, yes, in, in terms of the
Church, right, Because when these individuals are, you know,
probably presented to like church leaders, right, religious
leaders, a lot of them just dismiss them as, you know, cases
that they just need prayers, right?
But adequate counseling that's not given in our religious
institutions, especially back home, right, about helping this
individual psychologically. So like how did you help you
know the church right to be able to apply science right with
faith and make make it work? Well, I think it goes back to
what I was saying where there are times when you know, you
know through discerning that you need medication and prayers
working hand in hand. So I think people in that
disposition, they need to be seen to by special needs people,
definitely. I mean, because obviously they
don't live the same lives that we do.
If I would, if I could say no more lives, they don't live the
way we do. So they need to have the special
needs met. But I think at the same time,
there's no harm in putting in prayer.
There's no harm in putting in prayer because I've had the
situation. I'll speak of myself personally.
I, I remember before I got born again, and that was like about a
year before I think I, I was really going through a lot of
like emotional pain and mental turmoil and I was referred to a
psychologist. Yeah, interesting.
I'd yeah. Interesting.
Yes. Tell us more about this one.
Yes, I was referred to 1. You know, funny when you're
saying it. I totally forgot about Auntie.
You started mentioning it and the Lord just brought it back to
my remembrance, remember? And I went the first time.
They were asking me questions, I was answering When I left, I
didn't feel any different. I went the second time, but deep
inside me I knew that this is the one I need.
It wasn't helping me. So do you know what I said to
the lady? I said, you know what?
I don't want to come back. It's His, yes.
Niger, did you say I don't do again?
I did. I was, I was, I was very honest
and I said and I said don't want to come back.
And these were my I'll never forget this.
These were my exact words. I said I don't want to waste
your times and I don't want you to waste my time.
I didn't. You know who?
Was wasted. Whose time?
I was thinking we would both. I said, I don't want you to
waste my time. I don't want to waste your time.
You know why? Because I realized it wasn't
working for me, you see, because what I needed was something deep
inside that nobody else could touch.
And at that time, I didn't know it was Jesus DC.
So when now I got born again, that's what I needed, DC.
And I have a friend. I have a friend of mine who at
the time, they couldn't stop drinking.
It was just drinking nonstop and they tried to go to like an A, a
type of meeting, but it was a nonstop situation until they
also then realized this is beyond me.
Do you see? So a lot of people try so hard
in their own strength to, to change, to be better, to heal
in, you know, but then that's why for me, I don't lean too
much on motivational speaking in as much as I motivate people in
as much as I, I do my best to inspire people, but I always
want to tell them the truth of where the true healing comes
from, you see, and which is from Christ.
So everything else works together with so the science bit
that you were talking about, which is the medication which is
being hospitalized, you know, going to institutions, it's
absolutely needed and necessary. But he can still work hand in
hand with prayer because God still uses, you know, the
natural medication to heal people.
I mean, you've heard of people saying, oh, I need to go for an
operation. We have testimonies in my church
where people have gone under the knife right before the doctors
could do anything. After one last scan, they said,
we can't find what we're trying to take out.
That's a miracle right there. Yeah.
But then there's some people we still need to go through it.
Do you see? So it all depends on how, how
God decides, you know, to heal the person and for the and for
what purpose. What's the purpose of the person
who had to go through the whole, the whole process of having the
operation? And what is the purpose of the
person who never did get to do the operation even though there
was something to operate? You see?
Yeah. That's actually thought from 4
kids. Yeah, right.
So basically, individuals are different.
Very different and how God, yeah, yeah, like administers is
here. It's very different.
It's very, very different. It's like, for example, like you
did ask me like what would you recommend in terms of like
healing? And I did say going to God, our
healer, and that's one thing I remember I did, went to him
trusting and believing him for something.
And it went rather the opposite, like 360, you went opposite from
what I was believing. But then there was a purpose in
it. There was a purpose in God not
letting it go in the direction that I wanted it to, even though
I was believing and trusting and I had faith.
But then now when you walk with him very closely, like I said,
it's not just a case of pray, pray, pray, pray, pray, all
because we just have to pray. But when you walk with Him
closely now you're able to discern that, no, maybe God is
putting you in a season where He wants to change something and
you heal you, maybe break you, do something so He can use you
for His purpose. Do you see?
So in the healing, as you asked, just going back to that
statement that you made, people should not expect that it might
be instant. Sometimes God does it in His own
way. So one day the person can also
have a message or a testimony which will bless someone else.
Yeah, they either wait on the Lord.
Shall renew their strength. Mount up with wings like eagle.
Yeah, they shall run, I know. Yeah, absolutely.
Your family judge tomorrow. OK, so power scriptures inside
you. Before you go right, so you've
been the founder, the author of Smell the Coffee, Mike capsules,
Whole Chin and motivational resources.
So what's your ultimate vision for these initiatives and how do
you see grading to the future? So what's the legacy you want to
leave behind with your body of? Work my legacy is become a
person of value. That's the legacy and you are my
book launch and you saw that I titled it Become a Person of
Value. And I'm sure people wonder,
like, how can you say that I should become a person of value?
I believe I have value. Why should I become someone in
value? Am I not valuable?
You know? But I believe that there are
principles that differentiate us from people who don't become of
value. Because you see, when you become
someone who has value, you have influence, then you make, you
know, you become successful, you know, and some of the principles
I share in my book, you know, that bring about that value.
And I believe that the ultimate value is to become a vessel in
God's hand. There's a Scripture in the book
of Timothy which talks about their vessels in a house,
vessels of honour, you know, the Scripture, and vessels of
dishonour. And he said that.
But if you become a vessel of honour, then you become that
useful vessel in God's hand, isn't it?
Yeah. So I with refer to that
scripture, people say how can I become a person of value?
I say, yeah, well if you can be of value, you can be of no
value. And that Scripture says it
clearly that there are some, there are some vessels that are
for honour and some for dishonour.
But then if you are a vessel of honour, God can use you.
He can make you a vessel that he can use, the Bible says for the
master's youth. Yeah.
It's a master. 'S that's.
Yeah, wow. It's been a really, really
intense, insightful session today with you.
For me, I like to see an attitude of gratitude is good
attitude. So for me, to you, it's a very,
very big thank you. Just to show.
The. Book my capsule, make me your
official marketer and give me Commission.
Well, due to that, give me commissions.
For people who buy from the poor tax.
So where can people get this? From SO, people can get this
from my website whichissmellthecoffee.org.
You can also find this on Amazon, Barnes and Nobles,
Blackwells as well. And Waterstones.
Yes, Waterstones. OK, interesting.
So before you need, you want to do a shout out to anybody.
Oh yes, I want to give a big shout out to my mentors, which
I've spoken to about, sorry, my pastors, Pastor Victor, Pastor
Lydia Darte. I couldn't be where I am today
if it wasn't for you. And the biggest shout out is to
God Almighty. And I want to thank him for
where he's brought me and every time that he's always come
through for me. I am very thankful and everyone
who's been there for me throughout my journey.
Oh wow. Yes.
Yes, of course. Thank you.
SO. Much for me to you once again.
Thank you very much and God bless you.
Wishing you the very, very best in all of your future
endeavours. And of course, I wish that you
are able to impact the lives of millions and billions of people
across the globe positively. God bless you.
God bless you too, Ade. Thank you very much.
Thank you for having me again. OK, thank you.
Welcome.