1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,520 The leaky bucket is, is not knowing your process and having 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:05,120 your process up here in your head. 3 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:07,160 And for those listening, I'm pointing to my head. 4 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,000 And when your process is in your head, you might think that 5 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,800 you're running on all 8 cylinders, like everything is 6 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,280 working perfectly. And why do you think that? 7 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:19,280 Because money's coming in, people are hiring you, but 8 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,040 there's also a lot of things that are not happening and that 9 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,520 are invisible to you. And that's where the leaks start 10 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,440 happening is when you don't see those, you know, those holes in 11 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,400 the bucket that are just pouring out potential revenue. 12 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:55,520 Live, ladies and gentlemen, you will once again welcome to the 13 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:58,440 King James podcast and Diary of the CFO. 14 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,840 And today I've got with me a very, very special guest 15 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,960 fighting out of New York, United States of America. 16 00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:12,120 Mick, welcome. Jason Kramer. 17 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,680 How are you, Jason? You are rocking, you know, the 18 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:21,520 rocky move there, Yeah. Jason, the CRM Whisperer. 19 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:24,760 Wow. But that is that is the rocky 20 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:26,760 introduction, right? That's a Compass Plus 21 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,320 introduction. So you didn't see it back. 22 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:33,840 And let me read the specially curated corporate introduction I 23 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,720 created for you. So today's conversation sits at 24 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,760 the intersection of visas, growth, CRM strategy, leadership 25 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:44,960 and revenue transformation. Our guest is a Growth Strategist 26 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:50,680 CRM expert under Occultivize helping businesses streamline 27 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:55,760 sales systems, strengthen lead nurturing, and turn disconnected 28 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,360 processes into measurable growth outcomes. 29 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:04,080 Jason has built a reputation for helping organizations uncover 30 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,800 heat and revenue opportunities by fixing pipeline leakage, 31 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,760 aligning markets marketing with sales, and creating systems that 32 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,160 actually drive return on investment. 33 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,360 His work challenges of the many businesses hold more leads are 34 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,560 the answer. Instead, Jason argues that 35 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:27,160 growth often comes from optimizing what already exists 36 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,280 today. We will explore CRM strategy, 37 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:35,400 customer journeys, leadership, sales, psychology, AI, visa 38 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:39,600 systems, and what it truly takes to build scaling growth in a 39 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,160 world overflowing with technology. 40 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:46,600 Jason Cramer, it is an honor to have you with us on the podcast. 41 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:52,080 You once again welcome, brother. You want to get welcome. 42 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,160 And of course, I know there there were no lies told. 43 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,240 This was carefully, carefully handcrafted for you. 44 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,520 So let's get back to the origin, right? 45 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:03,920 How how it all started. You've actually helped 46 00:03:03,920 --> 00:03:07,440 businesses across multiple industries, you know, close 47 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:11,600 millions of dollars in sales through CRM and automation 48 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,360 systems. So what originally to you into 49 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:16,720 the space? So for me, I came from the world 50 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,000 of marketing. I was a graphic designer. 51 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,640 I worked in agencies in New York. 52 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,800 And then I started my first agency back in 2002 and had that 53 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,560 business for 16 years. And So what I learned during 54 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:34,000 that business was that and even today the problem exists where 55 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,560 companies spend money on marketing or there would be 56 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,360 advertising on Google. They're going to trade shows, 57 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,240 they do webinars, whatever they do, right, they're spending 58 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:46,200 something in terms of revenue and effort failed to do a lot of 59 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,360 times is connect the dots between those marketing 60 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:51,440 activities and what the sales team is doing. 61 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,920 So they don't really know other than our trade show, we got 100 62 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:59,080 business cards or our webinar, we got 300 people to sign up or 63 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,000 we got this many people from Facebook. 64 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,280 But what they are failing at is knowing the quality of those 65 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:05,560 leads. And when you don't know the 66 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,960 quality, then when you don't know how much revenue you 67 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,720 actually generated from those leads, it's really hard to 68 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,920 understand if the marketing is really working and if it's just 69 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,640 bringing in garbage and, and that's what's coming into the 70 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,760 system or if it's bringing in, you know, actual really highly 71 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,560 qualified potential customers. And so that for me was really 72 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,400 exciting and it was easy for me to understand that the reason 73 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,800 that happens is because the CRM system is typically not set up 74 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,520 correctly or there is no CRM system at all. 75 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:38,080 And so because as much as I love marketing and I'm I'm a creative 76 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,800 guy, as you can see the artwork behind me for those watching, 77 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,400 I'm also a data guy and I love organization. 78 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:47,400 And so that's why I opened up Cultivize 8 years ago and sold 79 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,920 the agency to really help solve this problem. 80 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,280 A. While interested for for the 81 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,400 listeners at home listening to us right now, I know we need to 82 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:00,480 be very conscious about the acronyms that we use. 83 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,960 A CRM is a customer relationship management tool. 84 00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:07,680 Is that correct? Yes, and I would define it just 85 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:09,560 if I could add a definition of my own. 86 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,760 To me, ACRM is not a project management tool. 87 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,880 It's not a spreadsheet. I mean, it's 3 components. 88 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,360 It's a place to store your contacts, the individual people 89 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:21,960 like us. It's a place to store 90 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,160 information about the companies we work for. 91 00:05:24,280 --> 00:05:28,160 It's also a place to do all of your e-mail marketing from and 92 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,760 it's also a place to do all your sales activity from. 93 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,680 When you have those three things combined into one platform, it 94 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:38,760 makes it much easier to look in the data and to be able to 95 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:40,720 understand what's working and what's not working. 96 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,080 Interesting. So in terms of your background, 97 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:47,600 you started with this with design and branded before 98 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:52,080 transitioning into CRM strategy. So how did that evolution 99 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,920 happen, and what did design teach you about revenue systems? 100 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,920 So for me, it's all about communications. 101 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,160 So I studied what we call communication design. 102 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:04,840 So I didn't really study advertising per SE or marketing 103 00:06:05,280 --> 00:06:07,000 studied. How do you communicate 104 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:08,640 something? And I'll give you everybody a 105 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:10,400 really quick visual to understand. 106 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:12,760 And this acquired anybody. I know we're in the different 107 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,560 sides of the pond, but anybody in the world could understand 108 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,440 what I'm about to say. When you're driving and you see 109 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,720 a sign on the side of the road that shows you that there might 110 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,800 be a deer crossing or that there's a bridge or that there's 111 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:26,800 a railroad tracks, there's a visual, right? 112 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:28,960 There's an icon to represent that. 113 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,240 Most of those signs don't have any words on them. 114 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,200 They're just an illustration to let you know what's ahead of. 115 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,360 And for me, that is where I really gravitated towards is, 116 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,160 you know, how do you communicate something with graphics and with 117 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,320 words? And the way that translated into 118 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,080 CRM is the same thing. It's all about communication. 119 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,400 We all are sales people, right? You know, I mean, well, not all 120 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:53,600 of us, but some of us, there are millions of sales people out 121 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,560 there. And it's our job, right, to be a 122 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:00,040 good communicator, right? It's not about selling and, and 123 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,040 talking about the features and benefits of what we do. 124 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,720 It's about listening and it's about understanding their needs, 125 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,240 their concerns, their problems, and being able to communicate 126 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,480 back how your company can help fix those problems. 127 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,880 And that's really what gravitated me towards CRM is 128 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:19,360 because I love the challenge of communication. 129 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,080 It's not only communication between a prospect and a 130 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,800 salesperson, It's internal communication. 131 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:26,600 It's communication with your data. 132 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,600 How is your your quoting system or your accounting system 133 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,360 talking to the CRM or talking to another piece of software That's 134 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,760 it's communication. So the thread to all of this is 135 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:41,120 the communication challenge that I believe a lot of businesses 136 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:45,200 have. A lot interesting you ended up 137 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,240 launching Cult of Ice, right? So, So what actually inspired 138 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,120 that? You know, the launching feel 139 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:55,600 like a specific moment or maybe a client experience that made 140 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,200 you say this is the company that I need to build first. 141 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,920 You know, as entrepreneurs, we understand that we have a 142 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,360 passion for solving problems. So what? 143 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:08,560 What really sparked that inspiration to launch? 144 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,520 So there's a few things. Yeah, there's a few things. 145 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,680 That's a great question. So I started my business in 146 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:19,480 2001, the end of 2001, 2002, work didn't exist, ever didn't 147 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:21,480 exist. You know, being able to hire a 148 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,520 freelancer across the world was nearly impossible. 149 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:28,480 It's very difficult. And so when I started my agency 150 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:31,160 here to when I, when I sold my agency, it was a completely 151 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,480 different landscape. And so me going out and, and 152 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,400 building a website or designing a logo for somebody now wasn't 153 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,120 just the local competition in the competition within the 154 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,520 United States. It was competition across the 155 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,800 entire globe. And so that really changed the 156 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,840 landscape of things. And I swore that for me, it was 157 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,680 going to get harder and harder to maintain that type of 158 00:08:50,680 --> 00:08:54,400 business because of all the new fresh talent that was emerging. 159 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,400 At the same time, we were also selling marketing automation 160 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:02,360 software, which is part of ACRM. And it really clicked for me 161 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:06,360 that this type of software could really be a next business model. 162 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,520 And I really wanted to really change things. 163 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:12,320 I've been designing websites and building brands for 25 years at 164 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,440 that point, and I was just looking for a change. 165 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,720 And so I decided to sell the agency and to start this new 166 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:19,640 business. Amazing, right? 167 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,400 You know, heading into entrepreneurship, right? 168 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,840 For a person like myself with a corporate background, right, 169 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,760 being a being a finance experts now having a background with the 170 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:34,720 B4 accounting firms, right, PWCKPMG, right, And get into 171 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:36,880 entrepreneurship. You not realize that that 172 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:41,480 there's a whole lot that you don't see as an employee, right? 173 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:45,400 And you get to learn very fast that everybody needs to master 174 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:50,160 sales because if you don't sell, then we all do not eat. 175 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,800 That's just the name of the game. 176 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:58,480 But with big R organizations with a lot of structure, I think 177 00:09:58,560 --> 00:10:02,880 a lot of people do not realize how important sales really is. 178 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,000 But when you get into sales, then you now start to understand 179 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:11,000 the nature of leads, right? Cold leads, warm leads, right? 180 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,480 Understanding the pipeline, understanding the conversion, 181 00:10:14,560 --> 00:10:17,040 right? But a lot of business actually 182 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,200 struggle with lead conversion despite heavy spending on 183 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:25,520 marketing. So why is there that brick down 184 00:10:25,680 --> 00:10:29,840 between, you know, the marketing and the conversion gap? 185 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,760 It's a few things. So number one, it's harder and 186 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,800 harder to sell these days. So if you're selling to a 187 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,840 business or to a consumer and you're selling something to 188 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,480 someone's home, whatever you're selling, there's more and more 189 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,920 competition and it's easier to find that competition, right? 190 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,800 I mean, you could say, hey, Alexa, find me a local plumber, 191 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:50,760 right? And now someone's not even going 192 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,280 to Google and doing a search or going to Facebook, they're 193 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:58,360 asking, you know, they're their virtual assistant, right? 194 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,040 Their house, their virtual housekeeper, if you will, in 195 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:02,560 their home to make a recommendation. 196 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:05,800 And so now your business has to be indexed on those platforms. 197 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:09,160 So the challenge I think to me that a lot of businesses 198 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,240 overlook, and you brought up a very valid point, you know, is 199 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,120 it a cold lead or is it a warm lead? 200 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:18,200 And so a lot of times when you get a lead, that person might be 201 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:22,720 very early in on their research. Let's say they're looking to 202 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,720 read, you know, paint their house, or they're looking to buy 203 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,320 a new car, or they're looking to buy a new telephone system for 204 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,320 their business. Whatever they're doing, they're 205 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,600 probably talking to you and at least five other companies also, 206 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:36,160 right? That's what we would all do. 207 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:38,680 We would all, you know, shop around and see who's going to 208 00:11:38,680 --> 00:11:41,760 give us the best value for the best cost, who's available. 209 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,480 And So what happens is that a lot of salespeople don't have a 210 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,040 process. And so when that lead is really 211 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,000 just looking for some preliminary information, 212 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,640 sometimes the salesperson gets kind of annoyed and they're 213 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,280 like, well, if you're not going to buy for me today, like that's 214 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:57,480 OK. Like I have all the leads. 215 00:11:57,480 --> 00:11:59,000 I'm, you know, don't worry about it. 216 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:00,760 I'm just going to go focus on something else. 217 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,400 Or they might be willing to say, OK, we'll give you the 218 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,400 information and we'll follow up. But then they never follow up or 219 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:09,720 they follow up once or twice and then they get busy. 220 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,080 They're going to the next estimate, they're going to the 221 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,960 next customer, they're getting on the next phone call and 222 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,280 they're not logging notes, They're not creating a reminder 223 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,640 for themselves to follow up. And So what happens is that to 224 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,400 your point before, when somebody wants to get into 225 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:27,200 entrepreneurship and they've been an employee all their life, 226 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,640 all these other things are happening for them that they 227 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,080 don't even realize, right? It's just behavior. 228 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:34,600 But when you're on your own and you're responsible for every 229 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,800 aspect of your business, you're juggling a lot of things, right? 230 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,640 You're wearing many hats. So you're taking care of the 231 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:42,360 bills, right? You're taking care of sales, 232 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,240 you're taking care of doing the work. 233 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:46,760 Perhaps you're taking care of all these other things. 234 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,320 Even on the personal side, maybe you're married, you're taking 235 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,920 care of the family, you're paying your mortgage. 236 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,160 So there's a lot on your plate that you're managing. 237 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:58,080 And so where those things start falling apart is when you're not 238 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:00,280 organized. And I think a lot of times 239 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,160 people be get into entrepreneurship because they're 240 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,480 really good at something and they have a talent, but they 241 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:09,000 don't understand that there's all these other pieces that are 242 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,640 going to be super important to make their business successful. 243 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,040 Exactly. Well said. 244 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:20,040 But that leads me to something that I see you have coined, 245 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,320 which is the leaky buckets problem, right? 246 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:28,280 That is your metaphor, right? And it forms part of the core 247 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:33,600 operational challenge that faces most scaling businesses today. 248 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,080 So I'd like to hear from the horses mouth. 249 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:38,440 What exactly is a leaky bucket problem? 250 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,360 The leaky bucket. And this is a great exercise 251 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,960 anybody can do today. Even if you're starting out, 252 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,200 even if you're an employee and you're in a sales role or in a 253 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,440 customer service role, you take out a piece of paper and you 254 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,880 start writing down the things you do everyday and what your 255 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:56,160 process is. So for example, if somebody 256 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,920 calls you and they need something, what do you do? 257 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:00,920 Do you e-mail them back? Do you call them? 258 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,360 How long does that take for you to get back to them? 259 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,360 Is that by the end of day? Is that the next day and start 260 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,080 writing all these things down? And then when you finally do get 261 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:10,880 back to them, what's the second thing you do? 262 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,040 If they've asked for an estimate, what are the steps you 263 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,360 need to build that estimate? How long does it take you to 264 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,560 build the estimate? And once you send the estimate, 265 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,560 how often are you following up? You just follow up once, twice. 266 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,280 What's the time distance between those follow-ups? 267 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,040 Are you making phone calls? Are you sending emails, text 268 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,120 messages? And then you keep going through 269 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,760 that process. And really what happens at a 270 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:32,320 mall when you put all this on paper? 271 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,320 That's where you find the leaks. You're like, oh, I'm not 272 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,480 following up enough or I'm taking too long to follow up. 273 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,640 And what happens is that if you take too long to follow up or if 274 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,080 you forget to follow up, what did I say before? 275 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,120 They're talking to you and four other people. 276 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,400 If the two other people are following up and returning those 277 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,360 phone calls and getting back to them with the information they 278 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,040 need, they're more likely going to hire that other person. 279 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:59,040 And so that's the leaky bucket is, is not knowing your process 280 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,240 and having your process up here in your head. 281 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:03,280 And for those listening, I'm pointing to my head. 282 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,120 And when your process is in your head, you might think that 283 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,960 you're running on all 8 cylinders, like everything is 284 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,400 working perfectly. And why do you think that? 285 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,760 Because money's coming in, people are hiring you. 286 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,920 But there's also a lot of things that are not happening and that 287 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,360 are invisible to you. And that's where the leaks start 288 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,320 happening is when you don't see those, you know, those holes in 289 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,280 the bucket that are just pouring out potential revenue. 290 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,040 Interesting. So So what are the signs of 291 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,800 revenue leakage? What are the biggest signs of 292 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,840 company with leaking revenue without realizing it should look 293 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,280 at? So what should the CFO look at? 294 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,600 What should found a lookout for? So the biggest thing is you 295 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:45,200 could look at whether you have a CRM or not is if you look back 296 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:49,280 in the last 90 days, maybe maybe it's, you know, maybe it's six 297 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,360 months, depending on how often you do proposals. 298 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:53,960 Look and see when were those proposals, when were the 299 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,880 original conversation started? Look what the date is. 300 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,080 Look at the date of when a proposal was sent. 301 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,200 If a proposal was sent, look at the date of the last 302 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,560 communication, the last time you spoke to that person, last time 303 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,320 an e-mail was sent. And then figure out why is there 304 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,800 no big follow up? Because I guarantee you if you 305 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:11,920 look at those things, you're going to find things that are 306 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,160 sitting there and idle. I can't tell you how many times 307 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,600 I look at somebody's pipeline, right, which is really just the 308 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,800 stages of their sales process. But even if you didn't have 309 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,640 those stages, and I talked to you today and you were a 310 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,960 business owner and I said, how many proposals did you send out 311 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:29,520 in the month of May? And you were to give me a 312 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,080 number. And I'd say how many of those 313 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,920 people got back to you? How many of those people you 314 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:35,880 have or do you have a reminder for to follow up with? 315 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:37,640 When are you going to follow up with those people? 316 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,520 That's where you start finding the leaks, when you realize you 317 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,480 don't have a system to actually close those deals that you're 318 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,960 spending so much time and money to generate. 319 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:51,120 Hi there, are you a professional or business owner teaching 320 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:55,120 investors for sharing big ideas about your presentations just 321 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,200 are not keeping up with your vision? 322 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,560 That's exactly why I use Gamma app or Proud partners. 323 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:06,839 Gamma is an AI powered platform that helps you build beautiful 324 00:17:06,839 --> 00:17:10,720 decks, documents and web pages in just minutes. 325 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,960 No complicated formats in no design headaches, just clean 326 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,319 modern presentations that communicate your ideas clearly 327 00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:20,800 and professionally. If you want to present like a 328 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:25,160 pro, Sign up today using the tool stack link in the 329 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,640 description below and start creating smarter camera app. 330 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,560 So I guess this is where automation comes in, right? 331 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:37,480 Especially with the CRMS. So I'd like for you to touch on the 332 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:42,360 importance of automation and of course that marketing slash 333 00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:45,800 sales disconnect. So why do we have marketing and 334 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,920 sales teams that are so disconnected and like what's the 335 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,800 real cost of that misalignment to to the profits? 336 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:54,600 Yeah. So let's talk about that first, 337 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:56,640 then I'll talk about the marketing it, you know, the 338 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,920 automation piece. So that the the concern about 339 00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:03,160 the disconnection is that a lot of businesses will hire a 340 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,440 marketing agency and that marketing agency is really 341 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,400 wearing a blindfold, OK. So think of them wearing a 342 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,040 blindfold. They can't see what's going on. 343 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,080 And the reason they're blindfolded is because all they 344 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,880 know is they're sending you people to they're sending people 345 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,400 to your website, they're getting people to fill your form, 346 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:20,600 they're getting people to call you. 347 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:22,920 But that's all they know. They don't know if anybody 348 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:24,160 actually returned your phone call. 349 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,960 They don't know if you had a conversation with anybody. 350 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,320 They don't know if how many of those people turn into a 351 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,440 customer. They don't know how much revenue 352 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:32,960 you got generated. OK. 353 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,080 And so you could imagine where that problem is because now the 354 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,760 marketing agency is still just keeps driving you and sending 355 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:40,640 you leads. But maybe Facebook isn't the 356 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,360 right platform and maybe that trade show wasn't the right 357 00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:46,160 trade show. Just because leads got generated 358 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:48,760 doesn't mean it worked. Does that make sense so far? 359 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,600 OK. And so the secondary part of 360 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,280 that is the blame game. When you have an internal 361 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,400 marketing team and it could be external as well and the sales 362 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,760 performance is low, What is sales teams usually do? 363 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,520 They say, well, we're not getting good leads or we're not 364 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,400 getting enough leads. And so, and it keeps going back 365 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:09,800 and forth because then marketing will say often, well, the sales 366 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,920 team isn't doing their job, we're generating leads, how come 367 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,560 you're not closing them? But if they're not qualified, 368 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,480 there's not even an opportunity to close them, OK. 369 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,520 And, and so that's a huge, huge problem for a lot of businesses. 370 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,920 And I've seen businesses spending, you know, 6 figures or 371 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,320 more, 7 figures a year on marketing with this problem. 372 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,080 And it's they might, as always tell them they might as well 373 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:35,280 take their money in the backyard and throw it into a fire pit and 374 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,840 just burn it because it's, it's not going to really do anything 375 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:40,560 operating the way it operates, right? 376 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,000 It's not going to help their business grow if they don't have 377 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,000 these insights. And so where does automation 378 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,080 come into play? Automation comes into play is 379 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,880 when every salesperson wants to follow up. 380 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,480 It's not like a salesperson doesn't want to follow up and 381 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,520 says, you know what? I'm not going to call Jason 382 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:57,360 back. You know, if Jason wants to do 383 00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:00,680 business with us, you know, he could call us every like, no one 384 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,600 thinks that way. At least most people don't think 385 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,200 that way. But what happens? 386 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,240 You get stuck in meetings, you have other phone calls to make 387 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,040 back. You have existing clients that 388 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,000 need to talk to you. You have a day off, you have a 389 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:13,920 you're sick, right? You have a holiday. 390 00:20:14,120 --> 00:20:16,160 All these interruptions happen and. 391 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,360 So you say you're going to get back to it tomorrow. 392 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,840 Tomorrow becomes next week, next week becomes next month, and 393 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:23,360 then it just completely disappears. 394 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,280 And so when you have automation in place and you have a process 395 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,960 to find, and we say after two days you have to make a phone 396 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:31,720 call. After that phone call, a week 397 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,760 later you send an e-mail and then you do XYZ. 398 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,680 The automation can create reminders for the salesperson to 399 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,280 do those things and it can alert the salesperson, say, hey, 400 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,960 Jason, today you have to call these 20 people because you 401 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,760 spoke to them three weeks ago and you haven't followed up with 402 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,360 them yet. And then management can say is 403 00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:52,160 Jason doing those tasks? Is Jason making those phone 404 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:53,800 calls? Is he logging those calls? 405 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,640 Is he talking to these people? And you will see the conversion 406 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:01,120 rates exponentially increase. I was speaking to a company 407 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:02,960 yesterday. They are in the roofing 408 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,080 business, so they do commercial residential roofs, right, for 409 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,080 homes and businesses. And they have about a 30% close 410 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,040 rate, which really is pretty low in their industry. 411 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,480 It should be at least probably 50% if not higher. 412 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,040 And the reason for that is that the follow up is not existing. 413 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,400 They follow up for only about 5 or 6 weeks and then they just 414 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:24,000 move on to the next set of leads. 415 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,280 They get 110 leads a month. They're not using automation to 416 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,880 do that follow up. You know, in their business, 417 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,000 they should be following up for at least a year and a half 418 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,360 because some people might need that amount of time to to have 419 00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:39,600 the money to buy that new roof or to do that roof repair. 420 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,080 And so that's where the automation can really help in a 421 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,600 lot of ways. Happy to give more examples, but 422 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,280 hoping that that gives a paints a good picture. 423 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:50,320 OK. OK. 424 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:55,120 So in terms of putting a number to rates, right, so like how 425 00:21:55,120 --> 00:21:59,720 much money would you say visas typically lose from these four 426 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,360 CRM processes and of course the weak follow up C stems? 427 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,480 Yeah. So my calculations, if you're 428 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:10,720 paying a salesperson, let's say you're paying them $150,000 a 429 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,040 year just for, for a number and they're spending just two hours 430 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,840 a week doing admin work that they shouldn't be doing because 431 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,360 we could automate it. You're essentially paying them 432 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:24,760 over $30,000 a year to do admin work and not to be selling for 433 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,320 you. And so the cost is, is, is real. 434 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,320 It's also the return on investment is real because if 435 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:34,640 you're spending $50,000 a year on marketing and you don't have 436 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,680 all of the tracking that we're talking about, you're literally 437 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,480 just spending $50,000. You're not getting any type of 438 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,840 ROI on that, that you could actually quantify and track to 439 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,840 know if $50,000 is actually bringing you revenue. 440 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,120 So the numbers are are shockingly high. 441 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,040 Another quick story, I had another client who also is in 442 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,680 the roofing industry and we work with lots of industries. 443 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,920 They weren't doing follow up after about 5 weeks. 444 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,000 Also they stopped. So in 2025 when they started 445 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,200 working with us, we put in automation that would send the 446 00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:13,040 prospective homeowner an e-mail every five weeks and would ask 447 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,440 them, you know, we came to your home. 448 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,800 We, we loved meeting with you. We just would like to know if 449 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:20,960 you still are interested in the project or if you've hired 450 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,120 anybody. And if you hired anybody, that's 451 00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:24,280 OK. Just, you know, if you don't 452 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,920 mind letting us know the reason. And there was a link in there 453 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,440 that lets them essentially take a one question survey. 454 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,520 Are your price was too high, You didn't get back to us fast 455 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,520 enough. We found a friend or a family 456 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,240 member to do it right. We hired A competitor. 457 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,960 Standard reasons. And wouldn't you know, in 2025 458 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,120 when we split with that client in January of this year, we 459 00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:48,080 helped them generate $4 million in revenue from that automation. 460 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,640 You know, just the e-mail going, that's all it was. 461 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,440 It cut, you know, several emails, you know, acknowledging 462 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,160 that, hey, we sent you a proposal, do you have any 463 00:23:55,160 --> 00:24:00,240 questions and, and, and so on. And a lot of those transactions 464 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,320 didn't happen for over a year later, 15 months to 18 months 465 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,240 after the proposal was sent. And that would have been revenue 466 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,160 that would have been completely this, that that revenue wouldn't 467 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,920 even existed because the salespeople were not falling off 468 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,760 for that long. Wow, I think this actually 469 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:20,120 justifies my my love for automations and integrations. 470 00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:23,520 I personally think they are very very important in business. 471 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,040 So please correct me if you think I am wrong. 472 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,400 But you know, it's interesting. I. 473 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,000 Totally agree. OK, I'm glad you agree with me. 474 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,640 So it's interesting that you actually work with clients 475 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,880 across, you know, multiple industries. 476 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:40,080 And when you look at this podcast, we have a very highly 477 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,720 educated audience that is comprised of our professionals 478 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,520 and entrepreneurs. So most of the people that 479 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,000 listen to this podcast are either professionals or their 480 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,000 founders, right? So I like for you to speak to 481 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,360 them directly on this one. Like what are the common 482 00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:59,520 mistakes you know that you have seen in terms of implementing 483 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,400 CRM platforms across different industries? 484 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,400 Because I know there will be recurrent mistakes that you have 485 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,120 been able to observe across the various industries. 486 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,920 So there's a couple of them. So the number one is that a lot 487 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:18,760 of businesses will buy ACRM without having a process defined 488 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,720 first. So my whole approach is that we 489 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,640 will like everything we've been talking about so far, everything 490 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,920 is process driven. So if you're buying a piece of 491 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,040 software and you haven't put on paper what your processes and 492 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:35,160 what the tools are you need, then you're buying basically 493 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,160 features and benefits you may not even need or may not even be 494 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,120 a fit for your business. And so you really shouldn't buy 495 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:44,560 any business software until you have those specific things 496 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,600 identified. And so my approach is a few 497 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,680 things. One, when you're doing a demo of 498 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,040 a piece of software like ACRM, have your process already 499 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,160 written out and have specific and share it with the person 500 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,280 giving the demo right with the company and say this is what 501 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:00,840 this is how I want things to work. 502 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:05,200 Can you show me how your tool will solve my specific problems? 503 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,400 Because a lot of these companies are giving like a cookie cutter 504 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,680 demo that they've put in probably, you know, 50 to 100 505 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,920 hours to build and they don't tell you that. 506 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,840 They make it seem like it's out-of-the-box going to work the 507 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:18,800 way that they're showing you and it doesn't. 508 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,920 It most never does that at all. And so you want to understand 509 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,120 that you don't want to see every feature and you should tell them 510 00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:28,720 that I know the system has 100 features, that's great. 511 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,400 I only care about these five. And I need you to show me 512 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:35,320 exactly this, this, this and that about these 5 features so I 513 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,640 can make sure it's going to fit our specific needs. 514 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,760 That's something that most people don't ask. 515 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,000 The second thing, people don't ask who's going to help me set 516 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:44,800 this up right? Because they, they're not going 517 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,840 to do it on their own. The Harvard Business Review, 518 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,240 which is an industry journal, did an article and what they 519 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,560 found was that over 70% of businesses will fail at 520 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,760 implementing their own CRM. So think of this, let's say Adam 521 00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,920 all, you bought a car today. Do you own a car? 522 00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:00,920 Right. Do you own a car? 523 00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:02,600 Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. 524 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,400 OK, so you have a car, right? So let's say when you want to go 525 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,760 buy that car, they gave you all the pieces, right? 526 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:11,880 Nothing was built, the engine wasn't built, the car wasn't 527 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,760 built. And they gave you a bunch of 528 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,960 videos, bunch of videos and like a training guide and said this 529 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,280 is how you put your car together. 530 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:20,920 Would you be able to build the car? 531 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:25,640 Probably not. Maybe what I I suck at DIY, I 532 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:30,760 suck at DIY. OK, All right. 533 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,360 There you go. That's my point is that that the 534 00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:37,120 CRM is no different than a car that's in a million pieces. 535 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,800 It's not, it's not fully constructed and usable until you 536 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,240 configure it the way you need it. 537 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,200 And so you have to ask the company you're talking to you to 538 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,280 say, well, who's going to customize the system and who's 539 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,840 going to talk to my sales team and my marketing team and get 540 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:56,040 the information that we have to share to fine tune the car, 541 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,480 right, to build the car the way we need it. 542 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,600 And if their response is, oh, we have training guides and videos, 543 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,040 that's not the answer. You need somebody that's going 544 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,440 to get on a video call with you, maybe meet you in person and and 545 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,200 probably spend about 20 hours because that's how long it 546 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:15,560 usually takes 20 to 30 hours to build out the CRM and that's 547 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,600 done it before. So that's something that usually 548 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,560 isn't asked. Another thing that's also not 549 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,840 asked is who's going to help me when I need help? 550 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,640 You know, what we find is the lower, the cheaper the software, 551 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,680 usually the worse the support is. 552 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:29,160 OK. That's usually just kind of like 553 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,840 a common thing we've seen. All right, I love you, agree 554 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,400 with that. And so you have to ask them. 555 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,200 And if they say, oh, we have support, you say, OK, well, can 556 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,720 I, can I get on the phone and talk to somebody? 557 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,680 Whatever question, can I get on a video call and talk to 558 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:44,320 somebody and show them my problem? 559 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,680 Because they might say to you, well, you have to submit a 560 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,800 ticket. OK, if I submit a ticket, how 561 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,120 long does it take to get back to me? 562 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,600 And then I might say a week, they might say 3 days. 563 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,760 But what if I have an urgent problem and I need help right 564 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:55,960 away? You're going to have to wait a 565 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,680 week to get a response. And usually those companies that 566 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:03,440 have that type of what we call SLA service level agreement are 567 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,880 usually not going to get answer your question actually 568 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,920 accurately anyway, right? Oh, or they're going to send you 569 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:10,640 some help article or to some video. 570 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,720 The AI chat bots? How about the chat bots? 571 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,280 Yeah, right. Yeah, Go as the AI. 572 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,640 Well, the AI can't answer my specific question. 573 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,680 I have something very specific. And so these are the things to 574 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,840 think about when you're buying a new CRM. 575 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,000 Don't buy a new CRM because you're your friend, right, who 576 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,320 runs a different business, loves another system and says, hey, 577 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:33,720 you should use a system. It's great. 578 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,240 It may not be great for you just because it's great for them. 579 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,560 It may not be great for you. And the other piece like we 580 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,120 talked before about is make sure it's ACRM. 581 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,720 There's a lot of people buying tools out there and they're 582 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,200 like, oh, we use this tool. I don't want to mention names. 583 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,200 And I'm like, that's not ACRM, that's a project management 584 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:51,720 system. And they're like, oh, but the 585 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,280 salesperson told me it's ACRM. I'm like, well, it's not right. 586 00:29:55,800 --> 00:30:00,240 By definition, it's not ACRM. And so they sell it as ACRM 587 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,840 because they're just trying to sell you something to sell you 588 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,320 something, close the deal and then move on to the next person. 589 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,160 And so those are the things you really have to be paying 590 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,800 attention to. The last thing that this is 591 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:15,000 probably the most important, don't get suckered in to the 592 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,880 free trials, OK? Because you go to a free trial 593 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,960 and you use it for 30 days, for two weeks. 594 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,760 If you can't afford that product and pay for it, there's no 595 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,280 reason you should be doing the free trial. 596 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,240 So I'll give you an example. We love HubSpot, HubSpot or 597 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,360 Certified Partner. It's a great platform to use all 598 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,520 their features that most businesses would need. 599 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,840 You're going to be close to $1000 or a few $1000 a month. 600 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:42,880 But if you're using the free version, you're not going to 601 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,240 have access to all those tools. And so if your intention is to 602 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,960 want to use all those tools, you can't, you don't have the budget 603 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,200 to afford that, then don't use the free version because then 604 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,440 you're just going to get stuck and you're never going to be 605 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,120 able to grow with the platform the way you need to grow. 606 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,720 So I think that's a big mistake people make also is that they 607 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,720 get the free version or they get a very like a low cost version 608 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,400 knowing that they can't afford the more expensive version. 609 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,120 But eventually you're more than likely gonna need that more 610 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,560 expensive version. Okay, Speaking of hotspot, 611 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,200 right, I have had a personal experience with hotspot and I'm 612 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:19,320 gonna put you on the hotspot right now, right, regarding 613 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:24,200 hotspots, So they usually have a lot of add-ons, right? 614 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,800 And for the average business owner, you might not know from 615 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,520 the get go that OK, I would need this ad on, I'll need that ad 616 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,360 on. And before you know it, the the 617 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,000 subscription cost increases exponentially because you really 618 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,040 don't know what features, what extra features you would need. 619 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,920 So what what advice do you have for founders in terms of doing 620 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,360 their due diligence, their research properly for us to know 621 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,360 like the features that they would need right before 622 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,880 committing and discovering that the version that they have 623 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,520 signed up for is inadequate to address their business needs? 624 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,880 Yeah, great question. So the simple answer is call me. 625 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,920 I'm happy to answer the question and help anybody listening. 626 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,400 Well, we'll share how you can get in touch with me at the end 627 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,800 of the episode. But if you're going on your own, 628 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,080 so there's the marketing hub, which essentially is for e-mail 629 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:19,320 marketing and E marketing functions, posting content on 630 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,640 social, it's not something the sales team would use, right? 631 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,600 So if you have a sales team, then you need the sales hub, OK. 632 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:30,480 But people don't realize is that when a contact is in the sales 633 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,600 hub, they're not a contact in the marketing hub as well. 634 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,320 You have to move them over there and today charge you based on 635 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,000 the number of contacts you have in these different hubs. 636 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,520 So a lot of times people make the mistake and they put a lot 637 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,040 of people into one of these different buckets and it 638 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,960 exponentially raises the cost when they don't even really need 639 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,000 to be there. Another that people don't think, 640 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,240 don't realize too is they sign up for things like the content 641 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:54,760 hub and they're like, oh, it's great. 642 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,920 I could like manage my blog and I could do all this SEO stuff. 643 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,160 Well, the catch there is you have to rebuild your website on 644 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,920 HubSpot platform and now HubSpot owns essentially your website. 645 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,840 And so if you ever leave HubSpot, you have to rebuild 646 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,320 your website somewhere else. And so that's something that 647 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,840 people also don't always recognize. 648 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,080 But you're right, there are a lot of different hubs and 649 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,440 there's more and more things they're adding, especially with 650 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,160 AI. Now they're going into like a 651 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,640 credit system. So they're giving you credits 652 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,960 based on the things you do. So we talked about like a chat 653 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,240 bot. So they have a new AI function 654 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,760 there. So like for every engagement in 655 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,240 your chat bot, it's one credit. And yeah, they'll give you a few 656 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,960 100 credits to start, but then they're going to charge you, 657 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:35,880 right? So if you get a lot of volume to 658 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,520 your website and people are interacting with that shop bot, 659 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,440 it's going to exponentially also increase your cost because 660 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,000 you're going to need more credits. 661 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,960 And so it's a lot of moving parts. 662 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,520 The spot is great. We have clients that love it. 663 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:50,160 We love it. It's not the perfect fit for 664 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,080 every business. You know, it really depends upon 665 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,040 what you're trying to do, the size of your business. 666 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,720 Another thing people also don't think of is where am I going to 667 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,000 be using my CRM? Am I going to be using it in the 668 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,920 office sitting at a computer? Am I going to be in my car 669 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:05,440 traveling from appointment to appointment? 670 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,400 I need to access an app on my phone. 671 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,480 Some of these systems don't have mobile apps. 672 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,800 So then what? You know, then you're forced to 673 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,120 use your CRM at 10 O clock at night when you get back after 674 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,639 dinner and working all day. And that's probably the last 675 00:34:17,639 --> 00:34:20,000 thing you're going to do is enter data and updates into your 676 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,679 CRM. So the way to avoid it is really 677 00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:26,159 just to know what you need upfront and to make sure you're 678 00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:29,800 asking the questions that I had mentioned before as you're doing 679 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:30,880 those demos. OK. 680 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,840 The one thing I'll also say lastly, yeah, I'll just say one 681 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,480 more thing. So as a certified partner, we 682 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,120 can help negotiate pricing for specifically tools like HubSpot. 683 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,040 But what was it 2 weeks ago, we saved the client over $10,000 a 684 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,960 year signing up for HubSpot. So we can waive a lot of fees 685 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,719 that they charge for their onboarding and we can lower 686 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,520 their price significantly compared to what you may pay if 687 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,440 you went directly to them. Interesting. 688 00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:00,200 We need access like itself, but that's another thing that I've 689 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:04,040 noticed as well with especially with small businesses, right. 690 00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:08,880 So a lot of times you wanna implement a CRM, but you have 691 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:13,840 teams, especially sales teams that are resistant to the 692 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:19,800 adoption of a CRM internally. So is that a technology problem? 693 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,680 Is it a culture problem? Is it a leadership problem? 694 00:35:22,720 --> 00:35:26,680 So how do you help clients that face this kind of a problem? 695 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:28,160 Yeah. So I mean, I would say, I 696 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,680 wouldn't say per say it's a leadership problem, but where we 697 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,360 get success there. And the approach I would take is 698 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,640 if you have, let's say, a handful of sales people and you 699 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,200 have some people that might be a little bit older or may just be 700 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,200 against kind of technology and they're more old school, right, 701 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,560 in the way they do things. What we always recommend is 702 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,080 finding one or two sales people that are your champions that are 703 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,720 willing to learn how to use the CRM and to apply it to their 704 00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:54,960 day-to-day activities and let them use it for three to six 705 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,280 months and and start making modifications to the CRM based 706 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,920 on their feedback. And once they've seen success 707 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,640 and they become the internal Rockies, right, the Champions 708 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,920 that are like, yeah, this thing is awesome, it's great, it's 709 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,640 changed my life. Then everybody else is going to 710 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,200 start seeing the value of it. And for the people that didn't 711 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,120 want to adopt early on, they will see the value. 712 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:19,040 I've also seen companies where if they don't start using the 713 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,520 serum, the leads that come in are only given to the people 714 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,760 that are actually using the CRM and the people that are not 715 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,320 using the CRM don't get the leads. 716 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,200 So that could be another way. It's a little bit more kind of 717 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,320 cutthroat, but there are different ways. 718 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,600 But I typically would say we never on board an entire sales 719 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,760 team at once. We always kind of on board a 720 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:42,200 little bit in stages because we want to make sure actually built 721 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,600 is actually, yeah, it is doing what it's supposed to do. 722 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,760 And like the feedback of the sales team, is only going to be 723 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:50,760 beneficial once they start using the system. 724 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,400 OK. So, so of course I know that 725 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:58,160 there are certain sales people that just want to stick to their 726 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,400 their model ways or the spreadsheets that have always 727 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:06,080 used right. So in terms of change management 728 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:10,760 tactics, right, understand that in organizations and you're 729 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:15,000 managing change are three things, you know, the processes, 730 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,640 the people and the systems, right? 731 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:23,040 So how do you manage the people in terms of this change 732 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:24,680 management process? Yeah. 733 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,920 So we do a lot of coaching. We work with the them to see the 734 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:29,880 value. There's a lot of misconceptions 735 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,800 that this is going to be extra work to use ACRM that we're 736 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,920 going to have to do like double data entry. 737 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,400 But if they're reluctant and they still want to use a 738 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,320 spreadsheet, we can automate it where every time they put 739 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,760 information into a spreadsheet, it goes into the CRM. 740 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:47,360 And so there's ways we can create workarounds to keep their 741 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,960 way of doing business as consistent as possible with what 742 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,080 they're comfortable with, but yet still get the value of the 743 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,240 CRM. So I'll give you an example. 744 00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:59,160 A client of ours who does not use this particular team member 745 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:03,120 does not really use the CRM and she manages the VIP clients that 746 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,200 they have. They're in a construction 747 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,560 related industry. And so basically what she does 748 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,160 is she writes things down on paper. 749 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,280 You know, Jason Kramer signed up for this. 750 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,560 Sometimes she might put things into a spreadsheet and they were 751 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,200 doing an e-mail promotion and they want to make sure that all 752 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,320 these VIP customers didn't get this e-mail. 753 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,400 OK, I said, well, give me your. And so she sends me a scan that 754 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,200 it's a picture of her Excel document. 755 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,440 It's not even the Excel document and it's a picture of 756 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,920 handwritten names and e-mail addresses. 757 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:39,000 Well, the power of AI, AI, right, That image into AI. 758 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,480 And within within 30 seconds, it built me a spreadsheet that was 759 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,200 able to understand all of our handwriting correctly. 760 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:46,680 And I built a spreadsheet for her. 761 00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:49,440 And you know, that would have taken me hours, right, to type 762 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,160 all that out manually. So I then said, here's your 763 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,840 Google spreadsheet, forward name is Kara. 764 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,960 Going forward, Kara, please add anyone that you have that's a 765 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,360 new VIP through this spreadsheet. 766 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,360 And then we built an automation that says anytime a new row 767 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:08,000 recognizes data, it'll automatically add it to the CRM 768 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,080 as a VIP customer. So she was happy to do that. 769 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:12,640 She said no problem, I can do that. 770 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,600 Like it wasn't asking her to go into the CRM, it was just asking 771 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,960 her just to simply upload a Google spreadsheet instead of an 772 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,360 Excel spreadsheet. So it was a slight move in 773 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,840 procedure, but an easy one for her to make. 774 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:26,840 Interesting stuff. Interesting stuff. 775 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,880 Let us talk about your framework, the five whys, right? 776 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:35,400 So you mentioned that there are 5 whys for a leaking funnel. 777 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,360 So are you able to walk us through the framework? 778 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:42,080 Yeah. So the first one is with the 779 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,080 process we talked about. We've been talking about process 780 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,200 the whole episode. So if you don't have a process, 781 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,280 the leaks are almost guaranteed to happen. 782 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,960 So the exercise we talked about before is the best place to 783 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,800 start putting that process down together on paper, understanding 784 00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,360 what that process is. The second part is 785 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,880 responsibility. Who's responsible for talking to 786 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,200 Jason or talking to Adam all when when they reach out to us. 787 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,440 And so if you don't have accountability within the 788 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,280 organization of who's going to take ownership, then the leaks 789 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,680 are going to happen. And regardless of how good that 790 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,280 process is, number 3 is the follow up. 791 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,480 There has to be some type of nurturing, some type of, and it 792 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,720 doesn't have to be fully automated, although automation 793 00:40:21,720 --> 00:40:24,400 definitely helps. But there has to be some type of 794 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,280 system in place to be able to keep in front of that potential 795 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,840 customer until they give you a yes or a no. 796 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:32,960 And it's not just putting them on a newsletter list. 797 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,320 I'd be some type of outreach, you know, from that salesperson, 798 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,400 that person that's accountable. And the fourth one is 799 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:43,760 recognizing when that person's not ready either Sometimes 800 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,480 people say, you know what, where we need to get more money or we 801 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,040 need to wait for till next year for the budget, right? 802 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,480 Or we need to wait for a decision or something's 803 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,760 happening where we can't make this decision right now. 804 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:57,640 You have to pivot. You shouldn't keep following up 805 00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,200 the same way and ask them if they're ready to sign the 806 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,440 proposal when they just told you they need to wait until next 807 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:03,840 year. So you have to be able to 808 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,400 recognize when you have to change your direction, but also 809 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,200 have an another part of your system to follow up with that. 810 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,360 And so if they tell you to call back in a year to put it on your 811 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,000 calendar, you should put it somewhere. 812 00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:19,320 You put a task to remind you to call back in a year and have 813 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,880 notes with that task. I spoke to Jason and May he said 814 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,400 call back, you know, at the beginning of next spring. 815 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,320 This is what we spoke about over there. 816 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:32,000 When you call back in a year, you can relay what the last 817 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:36,120 conversation was. And then the 5th part, go ahead. 818 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,280 I was going to say, I think that is actually great. 819 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,080 I think I totally agree with that because that is something 820 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:45,160 that I do, you know, on my end. So I was just corroborating your 821 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:46,240 point. OK, great. 822 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,040 And then the last part is actually going in and updating 823 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,480 the data, right? So this whole cycle of tracking 824 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,280 everything and following up doesn't work unless you remember 825 00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,400 to be like, yeah, we won that business, right, marking a close 826 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,520 one or we didn't get the deal marking a close lost. 827 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:04,280 So yeah, there has to be an endpoint. 828 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,600 And so sometimes when we look at this, you know, you know, and 829 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:11,080 talk to other companies and we're like, well, how come you 830 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,520 don't have more closed deals? And like, oh, we do. 831 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,840 We have like dozens or hundreds. I'm like, well, but they're not 832 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:18,560 in here. And they're like, oh, we just 833 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,560 forgot to go back and do that, you know, And so then that's 834 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,680 going to really start making all of your porting inaccurate. 835 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:26,840 So there has to be an endpoint to it. 836 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:30,520 You have to remember to go back and to close that out, right? 837 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:32,920 close that deal out with a status. 838 00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,520 Yes, we got the deal. No, we didn't get the deal. 839 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:37,520 And if you're still in the middle where they're still 840 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:39,920 deciding, there has to be that ongoing follow up. 841 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:44,760 Yeah, I totally agree with you. So in terms of leadership 842 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,760 accountability, So what role does leadership of our 843 00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,960 businesses like, what role do they play in creating 844 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:56,760 accountability around the sales process, the sales systems and 845 00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:01,800 how do the best CEOs and founders model that behavior 846 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,960 that they want to see? So the obvious thing, they have 847 00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:06,800 to be using the system themselves. 848 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,200 If they're not going in there and using the system and they're 849 00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,400 not leading by example, that is really difficult for anybody 850 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,640 else under them in the organization to see the value of 851 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,680 the platform. So that's number one. 852 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:21,640 Number two is they also have to use that information from the 853 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,000 CRM to help and encourage the salespeople. 854 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:29,640 So saying saying to somebody, hey John, you haven't met your 855 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,880 quota, this is a problem is one way to do it. 856 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,040 Another way to do it is, hey, John, we notice you haven't met 857 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,560 the quota. We see that you haven't marked 858 00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:40,840 your follow-ups, you haven't been making these phone calls, 859 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,600 you haven't been doing the things that are part of our 860 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:45,080 process. Why is that? 861 00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,400 How can we help you make sure that those things are done? 862 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,920 Because if we know if we help him to do that, he's going to 863 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,000 reach the quota. And so that's where I think 864 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,200 leadership typically fails in those two capacities that are 865 00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,160 not using the system and they're not using the data from the 866 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,640 system to help fix any problems that might be there. 867 00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,880 And they're also, thirdly, not maybe rewarding people that are 868 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,200 doing a great job. So if they're hitting their 869 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,280 numbers and they're surpassing their numbers and they have 870 00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,920 those KPIs, those bent, there's data sets in the CRM. 871 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,400 It'd be nice to say thanks, you did a great job. 872 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,880 You know, here's a gift certificate here, something 873 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,320 right to show appreciation. And I think, you know, we're all 874 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,560 human. We like to be not patted on the 875 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,840 bat, but we like to be complimented that what we're 876 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:28,440 doing is actually making an impact. 877 00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:30,600 There should at least be a reward C stem. 878 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:35,280 But Speaking of rewards and me being a finance person, my next 879 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,920 question is very dear to my heart, right. 880 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:41,120 And it is about return on investment. 881 00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:45,640 So how should founders measure whether the CRM investment is 882 00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,320 actually producing a return on investment? 883 00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:53,160 And what's a realistic timeline for Visa to see meaningful? 884 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,720 Results. Yeah, so that that's a great 885 00:44:55,720 --> 00:44:58,960 question. So typically I say six months to 886 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:00,720 a year. Definitely within a year you 887 00:45:00,720 --> 00:45:02,840 should start seeing results and the value. 888 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,760 There was actually a calculator I'll mention how to get to it. 889 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,320 If you stay and keep listening to the end of the episode. 890 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:12,480 We created this on our website and what it is, it looks to show 891 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,600 you how much revenue could actually generate and how much 892 00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:19,200 marketing you can save. So statistically, when your CRM 893 00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,760 is really working the way it's designed to work, the way that 894 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:25,280 we're talking about today, you're going to see a 29% boost 895 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,560 in your sales, 29%, that's a big number. 896 00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,320 And you're also going to generate 50% more. 897 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:32,720 That's massive. Right. 898 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:34,880 I mean, that's almost one. 3rd That's a real number. 899 00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,920 That's almost one third it's. Almost 1/3 of your sales, 1/3 of 900 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,080 your sales, right, If it's being done correctly, that's on 901 00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:43,720 average what the number is. That could be a little lower, a 902 00:45:43,720 --> 00:45:46,440 little higher, but you know, and you're also going to generate 903 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:50,880 50% more sales ready leads. And what does that mean? 904 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,760 That means that the people that are coming in as leads, if you 905 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,680 educate them, if you nurture them, if you go through a 906 00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:02,520 process with them, you're going to close 50% more because 907 00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,240 they're going to be educated. They're going to be 908 00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,080 understanding that you could actually help them with whatever 909 00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:10,840 problem or need that they have. And then you're also at the same 910 00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:14,160 time, you're going to lower your marketing costs because now you 911 00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,080 know which marketing strategies are working and which ones 912 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:19,040 aren't. We had a client who was doing 913 00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,720 some advertising when I said to them, you know, you're spending 914 00:46:21,720 --> 00:46:24,320 all this money and we're not seeing any traffic to the 915 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,400 website, we're not seeing any conversion. 916 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:30,480 And it's costing you almost $20,000 a year to do this. 917 00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,320 And eventually they like, you know what, you're right, like 918 00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:35,880 we're spending this money and we're not seeing any results. 919 00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,480 So, so they stopped doing it. They invest that money 920 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,680 elsewhere. The calculator is really simple 921 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,520 tool that I think everybody should go to that's listening. 922 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,800 It's really easy to use. All you have to do is enter in 923 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,560 just a few questions, which is 4 things. 924 00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:51,680 How much money do you spend on marketing each month? 925 00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,360 How many sales people do you have in the organization? 926 00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,280 What is the average thing that you sell cost? 927 00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,320 So if you're selling whatever product or service, what's the 928 00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,360 average, You know the average, How many leads do you get per 929 00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,400 month? It could be 5, it could be 100, 930 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,560 doesn't really matter. You put those four things in and 931 00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,160 it's going to tell you how much more revenue and probably you 932 00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,120 can generate for your business. Before we dive back into today's 933 00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,920 conversation, I want to share something important. 934 00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:20,480 This episode includes a paid partnership with Better Health, 935 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,200 a platform designed to make starting therapy easier. 936 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,640 I know from my own journey as a leader and entrepreneur that 937 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:29,960 life can sometimes feel overwhelming. 938 00:47:30,240 --> 00:47:34,280 There are seasons where stress, uncertainty, and pressure build 939 00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,320 up, and you need a safe space to process it all. 940 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:41,640 That's where therapy comes in. Therapy isn't only for people 941 00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:46,600 facing clinical challenges. It's a space to refer, grow, and 942 00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:50,640 find better ways to manage stress, relationships and 943 00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:54,400 personal goals. It takes courage to seek help, 944 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,600 but it's also one of the smartest investments you can 945 00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,680 make in your mental and emotional well-being. 946 00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,440 That's why I'm proud to highlight Better Help with 947 00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:08,120 Better Help to simply fill out a short questionnaire and get 948 00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,440 matched with a credentialed therapist in just a couple of 949 00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:13,640 days. If the first match doesn't feel. 950 00:48:13,720 --> 00:48:15,160 Like the right fit? You can. 951 00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:19,600 You can easily switch therapies at no extra cost until you find 952 00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,520 someone who truly connects with you. 953 00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:25,120 Inside the platform, you'll also find tools like journaling and 954 00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,800 group sessions on different topics that can support your 955 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,280 growth. And with over 7000 reviews and a 956 00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:37,360 4.5 trustpathy rating, Help is a platform you can rely on. 957 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,800 So if you feel like you'd benefit from talking to a 958 00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:45,320 therapist, is it betterhub.com/kingdames? 959 00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:52,280 That's betterhub.com/kingdames to get 10% off your first month 960 00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:54,840 of therapy. Once again, this is a paid 961 00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,120 partnership with Betterhelp and I encourage you to take that 962 00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:00,280 first step. If you've been thinking about 963 00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:04,120 it, Sometimes the best investment you can make these in 964 00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,680 yourself. Interesting. 965 00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:11,080 So talking about data versus intelligence, right. 966 00:49:11,240 --> 00:49:17,920 So I am always very, very, what I say, conscious of people who 967 00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:22,760 fall into that trap of paralysis by analysis, right? 968 00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,000 So what? What's the difference between 969 00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:29,040 having the data but actually using that data intelligently? 970 00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:32,200 How do the best operators actually reach that gap? 971 00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,640 So you're absolutely right. I mean, there are, especially 972 00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:39,280 today, right in the last, you know, 1020 years, endless 973 00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,720 reports that you can probably look at for your business and 974 00:49:41,720 --> 00:49:45,040 everything from from accounting to finance, like QuickBooks to 975 00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:48,160 the business side to to operation to you, your 976 00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:52,080 warehouse, whatever it might be. I always say what are the most 977 00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:55,720 important data points that are going to make a difference for 978 00:49:55,720 --> 00:49:57,440 your business? What are the most important 979 00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:59,520 things? So for example, if you know you 980 00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:03,440 need to have X number of leads per month because you have a 50% 981 00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:07,240 close rate and you want to close five leads a month or five new 982 00:50:07,240 --> 00:50:09,480 customers a month, you need 10 leads, right? 983 00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:12,720 Simple math, OK, if they're qualified, but every business 984 00:50:12,720 --> 00:50:14,960 has different things that are important to them. 985 00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:18,640 And so rather than having a dashboard that's got 1000 986 00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,760 different things you're looking at, I always ask what is going 987 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:23,400 to help you make a smart decision? 988 00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,640 What is going to help you change the way that you're doing things 989 00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:28,320 for the improvement of your business? 990 00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,120 Every business owner we talk to is going to answer that question 991 00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:33,320 differently, right? Because they all have different 992 00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:35,480 needs. So it may not be how many 993 00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:37,840 Facebook likes you got, right? What does that matter? 994 00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:39,960 I mean, there are some people that want to know that number, 995 00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,760 but does that really change the way you your business is going 996 00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:43,760 to grow? No. 997 00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:48,000 And so those are the things that you want to be thinking about is 998 00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:51,480 what number, right or a series of numbers is going to be 999 00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:56,080 important for me to know how can I improve my business. 1000 00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:59,640 So one thing that I, we talked before about having a skill, you 1001 00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,040 know about, you know, maybe 1/2 hour ago we were talking about 1002 00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:04,680 having a skill and becoming an entrepreneur and turning your 1003 00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:07,880 skill into a business, right, a skill preneur. 1004 00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,000 A lot of people that do that, they don't really understand 1005 00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:13,960 always profit margin as a simple topic. 1006 00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,640 And so they don't understand that, OK, in order for my 1007 00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:20,040 business to be successful, anything north of 50% profit 1008 00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:21,880 margin is going to be is going to be good. 1009 00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:25,080 If that number could be hundreds of percent profit, right, or 1010 00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:26,960 thousands, that's even better, right. 1011 00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,320 So there's a show here in the United States called Shark Tank. 1012 00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:31,680 I don't know sure if everybody, maybe some people have heard of 1013 00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:33,600 it. And so they go on there and 1014 00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:35,400 these people are. Yeah, right. 1015 00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:37,600 And they're trying to get people, you know, these sharks 1016 00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:40,720 to invest in their business. And So what happens when they 1017 00:51:40,720 --> 00:51:43,800 say, well, how much do you sell it for and how much does it cost 1018 00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,520 you to make it? And if you're selling it for $30 1019 00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,720 and it cost you $25 to make it, there's no way they're getting 1020 00:51:49,720 --> 00:51:51,760 an investment, right? Because there's no profit, 1021 00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:52,600 right? OK. 1022 00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:54,360 And so that's how a business grows. 1023 00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,000 And so that might be something you want to look at too. 1024 00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:58,600 So I'll give you a great example. 1025 00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:02,320 And this is a personal story. As I mentioned earlier, I, I was 1026 00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,840 a, I was a graphic designer, OK, designing computer, you know, 1027 00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:09,800 logo websites, all these things. And so when I started building 1028 00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,840 websites, I had other people helping me build those websites, 1029 00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:16,840 right, programmers, etcetera. And I would put a quote together 1030 00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:19,440 based on what I thought the, you know, price should be based on 1031 00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:21,280 different variables. And I said it's great. 1032 00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:24,200 We just saw this $15,000 website. 1033 00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:26,600 That's amazing, right? It was $30,000 website. 1034 00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:30,240 What I didn't realize in the very beginning was how much time 1035 00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:32,280 it goes into building the website. 1036 00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,520 It was all based on my estimated theories of how long it would 1037 00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:37,720 take. And there are always delays, 1038 00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:40,640 right, in projects like that. So, so where I might have said 1039 00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:43,400 in my head, OK, it's going to take us three months to build 1040 00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:46,320 this and I'll, I'll have some money leftover from what I have 1041 00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:48,560 to pay my vendors and my, my, my team. 1042 00:52:48,720 --> 00:52:50,760 But then what happens when it takes six months or nine months 1043 00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:52,920 to build it? Then your profit decreases 1044 00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,880 substantially. And so that's something that is 1045 00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:57,880 a problem because it's not sustainable. 1046 00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:00,880 You can grow your business if you don't have high profit 1047 00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:04,840 margins or good profit margins. And so like I said, every 1048 00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:06,520 business is going to have different needs. 1049 00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:09,680 I'll give her another quick story that that of 1050 00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:11,840 entrepreneurship when I was in high school. 1051 00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:14,480 So that's, you know, like secondary school, you know, as 1052 00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:16,640 you may call it, you know, in the UK and elsewhere. 1053 00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:21,880 I was about 17 years old and I used to like to clean people's 1054 00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:24,480 cars, like detail them, wax them and, you know, Polish them and 1055 00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:27,360 all that. And so I decided that I would 1056 00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:31,880 get a van and just what I was doing before is I'd go to 1057 00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,640 somebody's house and use like their hose and just bring a few 1058 00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:37,280 supplies with me. But aside, I would get a van. 1059 00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:41,520 And I in the van, I put a really big water tank and I'd buy a 1060 00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,640 generator and like a power washer and essentially be able 1061 00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:46,760 to wash a car in the middle of a desert, right? 1062 00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,960 And then I would have everything I needed self-contained so that 1063 00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:52,560 I can do more like businesses and things like that. 1064 00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:56,160 And what I didn't calculate was how much money I was spending on 1065 00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:58,520 gas, how much money I was spending on renting all this 1066 00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:00,080 equipment, buying all the chemicals. 1067 00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:03,560 And even though I might have been charging, you know, $100 to 1068 00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:07,040 to detail and wax a car and I thought I was making money at 1069 00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:10,120 the end of the summer, I basically lost money because of 1070 00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:12,920 all the expenses I had, right? And I just didn't know any 1071 00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:14,440 better, right? I was like, this is great. 1072 00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:17,480 Like making money, you know, and you, you learn very quickly 1073 00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,120 like, something's wrong here. Like I, you know, I never 1074 00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:23,720 calculated my costs and factored that into what I was charging. 1075 00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:26,600 You know, I just kind of came up with a number with what other 1076 00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:29,200 people would charge and thought like, OK, I'll just charge what 1077 00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,080 other people charge. And so that was a really big 1078 00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:35,760 life lesson to understand that there's a lot of moving parts to 1079 00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:37,440 a business. And if you don't, and then I 1080 00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:39,200 know everybody listening today knows those things. 1081 00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:43,640 So that's like me being a very naive 17 year old thinking like, 1082 00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:45,760 OK, I'm going to start this little business for a few months 1083 00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:49,240 before I go off to university and college, not recognizing all 1084 00:54:49,240 --> 00:54:50,760 the kind of all those moving parts. 1085 00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:54,800 So it's a long way of me saying that there are lots of different 1086 00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:56,960 numbers out there that are going to help make a difference for 1087 00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:59,000 your business. You really have to think about 1088 00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:00,880 what's what's important according to me. 1089 00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:04,400 What do I need to know for my, for myself, for my company, and 1090 00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:07,120 for my team that's going to help me make those smart decisions? 1091 00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:09,640 I think that is amazing. And of course, you know, it's 1092 00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:13,520 such a great way to segue into the next set of questions that 1093 00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:17,640 I'm going to ask you because right now I'm putting on the 1094 00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:21,560 Seattle lands, right and see Apple Heart. 1095 00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:27,680 So in finance, a lot of us finance people tend to see CRMS 1096 00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:32,240 as the sales department's tool. But when you venture into 1097 00:55:32,240 --> 00:55:36,320 entrepreneurship, right, as a finance expert, you learn really 1098 00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:43,560 quick how important the output of the CRM is for the finance 1099 00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:48,320 process, right? So the CFO definitely should own 1100 00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:52,480 CRM visibility. So from a CFO's perspective, why 1101 00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:56,600 should finance leaders care deeply about the CRM system? 1102 00:55:56,600 --> 00:56:00,480 So like what are the financial risks that are that are exposed 1103 00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:04,440 if they do not in monitor the CRM systems? 1104 00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:06,480 Sure. So two big things. 1105 00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:08,880 One, the efficiency of their team. 1106 00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:11,960 So they're paying people, could be paying them hourly, might be 1107 00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:15,520 paying them salary, salary, OK, but how efficient are those 1108 00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:18,360 people doing their job? And if the CRM is not helping 1109 00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,600 them be efficient, they might be not producing a lot for the 1110 00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:23,760 business, right? They might even be making enough 1111 00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:26,880 phone calls and may not be able to talk to enough people. 1112 00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:29,640 They may not be able to follow up with as many people as they 1113 00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:32,920 want because they're doing a lot of other things inefficiently. 1114 00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:37,040 So I think for sure they're going to see more ROI out of 1115 00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:40,360 their staff, out of their team. That's one big advantage. 1116 00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:44,600 The second big advantage is the expenditure of marketing 1117 00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:49,240 dollars. So the CFO approves a budget for 1118 00:56:49,720 --> 00:56:53,240 $50,000 for marketing and they approve that budget every year. 1119 00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:55,720 But they don't, they don't know what's happening with that 1120 00:56:55,720 --> 00:56:59,280 $50,000 Sometimes they just expect that it's actually doing 1121 00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:00,720 something to help grow the business. 1122 00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:07,800 But if we can show the CFO that that $50,000 returned a $300,000 1123 00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:13,640 return or a 4X or A10X, well, wouldn't they say, well, if 1124 00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:16,840 you're able to do that, we'll increase the budget to $100,000 1125 00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:20,240 or to $75,000 because what you're doing is actually working 1126 00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:23,840 to actually grow the business. And so it's not just about cost 1127 00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:26,480 savings. I think for the CFO, it's about 1128 00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:30,040 where is the money being spent and where is that showing a 1129 00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:32,760 return on investment. And as a financial person at a 1130 00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:36,000 MOLA, it's like investing in the in the stock market or buying 1131 00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:38,720 any type of, you know, mutual funds or anything else. 1132 00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:41,520 You want to know that you're getting making money, right? 1133 00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,680 You wouldn't keep buying stock and buying funds if you're 1134 00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:47,240 losing money every month. Yet a lot of businesses are 1135 00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:49,000 doing that. And certainly a CFO would want 1136 00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:51,480 to make sure that that's not happening for their business. 1137 00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:55,800 Well, it just, you know, talking about operational blind spots, 1138 00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:58,760 right? I like the, I like the story 1139 00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:02,360 that you shared about, you know, the visas you operated as a 1140 00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:06,280 teenager, right? From my accounting perspective 1141 00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:10,080 and like it's clearly operational blind spots, right? 1142 00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:13,640 In accounting, you have two types of expenses. 1143 00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:17,560 You have your cost of sales, you have your operating expenses and 1144 00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:21,720 those are the two sets of expenses that affect the bottom 1145 00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:24,600 line. So basically, how do you derive 1146 00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,000 the bottom line? You have your top line revenue, 1147 00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:28,600 then you have your cost of sales. 1148 00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:33,360 Your cost of sales are the costs that are directly attributable 1149 00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:36,920 to generating your revenue. And of course, you have things 1150 00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:40,880 like your overheads selling at being expenses. 1151 00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:44,840 All of those other expenses are called your operating expenses 1152 00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:47,800 right before you arrive at your bottom line. 1153 00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:52,960 But there's usually a disconnect between in, in organizations, 1154 00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:56,480 right, between in finance marketing and sales. 1155 00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:59,440 And I know you would have noticed that in the course of 1156 00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:03,080 your work, right? So that disconnect between 1157 00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:07,600 finance marketing and sales, right, usually creates gaps that 1158 00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:12,520 affects profitability, right? So what's your advice to 1159 00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:16,680 founders out there in terms of identifying the operational 1160 00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:21,520 blind spots and you know closing those spots in other to enhance 1161 00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:25,360 efficiency and of course enhancing profitability? 1162 00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,440 Yeah, I mean, it's simple. Start asking questions, right? 1163 00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:30,720 Start talking to the different department heads, to your 1164 00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:32,640 employees. And if they don't have the 1165 00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:35,920 answers you're looking for, don't be complacent, You know, 1166 00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:39,760 mandate that a change we made a lot of businesses we talked to 1167 00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:42,800 might have a sales team of, you know, a few people, a dozen 1168 00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:45,600 people, and each salesperson has their own different spreadsheet. 1169 00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:47,240 None of them have the same format. 1170 00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:51,200 It's impossible for anybody in the management to really be able 1171 00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:54,320 to pull out data together. Or maybe you could use AI of of 1172 00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:57,520 course, but not easily to be able to understand what's 1173 00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:00,400 happening in the landscape of the sales team when everybody's 1174 01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:03,280 doing something different. So the only way things are going 1175 01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:05,600 to change is if change comes from the top. 1176 01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:08,280 I truly believe that. And it's also has to be the 1177 01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:12,080 willingness and the acceptance of the CFO, the CEO, whoever it 1178 01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:15,480 might be to recognize and to be willing to raise their hand and 1179 01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:18,640 say there's a problem here. And we were identifying that 1180 01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:20,840 there's a problem. We need to fix the problem. 1181 01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:24,640 We need to find somebody. You know, Mike, Jason or whoever 1182 01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:28,320 to come in and and help us fix that problem and come up with a 1183 01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:32,280 solution that we could make this business more sustainable. 1184 01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:35,080 Because if the problem exists today, it's only going to get 1185 01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:37,120 worse as time goes on. We all know that. 1186 01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:40,600 Interesting stuff. You know what one of the core 1187 01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:44,080 responsibilities of you know the finance team is To make 1188 01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:47,480 forecasts, you know, and of course, you know cash flow 1189 01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:50,800 predictions. Revenue is vanity, profits is 1190 01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:53,320 sanity. And of course, cash is reality, 1191 01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:58,280 right? So in terms of the efficiency 1192 01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:01,280 and of course, the accuracy of forecasting, right? 1193 01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:05,280 So what's bro the CRM visibility play, right? 1194 01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:09,360 And of course, what's metrics should CFO's obsessed over? 1195 01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:12,040 Yeah. So if the CRM is properly set 1196 01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,840 up, you're going to easily, within seconds, be able to see 1197 01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:16,840 how much projected revenue is coming in. 1198 01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:19,320 Because the one thing you have to recognize is that with the 1199 01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:23,080 CRM, it's not going to tell you that you have 4 proposals that 1200 01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:26,560 are $25,000 each that are worth $100,000. 1201 01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:28,880 It's not going to say your projected revenue is 100,000 1202 01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:32,800 because if you only close 50% of your deals, it's going to say 1203 01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:34,880 your projected revenue is $50,000. 1204 01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:38,280 And so a lot of times sales people be like, I'm going to hit 1205 01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:41,160 my quota because I have all these proposals out. 1206 01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:43,160 They don't recognize. They're not factoring in the 1207 01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:45,560 percentage of how many of those are actually going to close 1208 01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:48,440 versus not close. So that's a big piece of it. 1209 01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:52,120 The other big piece that you would get from ACRM if it's set 1210 01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:54,840 up correctly, how long does it take to close a deal? 1211 01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:56,840 That's something that management would want to know. 1212 01:01:57,080 --> 01:01:59,920 Does it take us a few days, a few weeks, a few months, a few 1213 01:01:59,920 --> 01:02:01,840 years? How long does it take and how 1214 01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:04,760 long does it take to go from one step to the other? 1215 01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:08,560 I've seen situations where a discovery call, which you think 1216 01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:11,480 might, right, animal discovery call should happen within a few 1217 01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:13,000 days. Like pretty quickly someone's 1218 01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:15,160 interested, you get on the phone with them, set an appointment, 1219 01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:17,360 have a conversation. I've seen pipelines where 1220 01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:20,160 someone sitting in the discovery call stage for months. 1221 01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:23,120 Wow. Why are they sitting there for 1222 01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:25,320 months? Is it, is it because then the 1223 01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:27,760 meeting never happened? Is it because it happened and it 1224 01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:29,480 never got moved into the next stage? 1225 01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:31,760 Is it because the salesperson forgot about it and never 1226 01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:35,480 actually had the discovery call? And so those things are more 1227 01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:37,240 problematic than you would expect. 1228 01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:40,080 And it happens not just in the startups. 1229 01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:42,480 We've worked with companies generating millions and millions 1230 01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:44,920 of dollars and we see these problems exist. 1231 01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:48,080 So it's not just for those listening thinking we're making 1232 01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:50,320 money, we're doing all the right things. 1233 01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:53,680 I could almost guarantee that there's a large percentage of 1234 01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:56,600 everybody listening today who thinks everything is on the up 1235 01:02:56,600 --> 01:02:58,520 and up and everything is organized and everything is 1236 01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:01,760 being done correctly and there's problems, but below the surface 1237 01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:03,880 it's just nobody's paying attention to them. 1238 01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:08,000 Interested, so looking at that example that you just provided 1239 01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:12,840 off, you know a custom or a potential lead rather seating in 1240 01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:17,280 the discovery call stage, I refer to that as a broken 1241 01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:21,560 customer journey, right? And that's directly absolutely 1242 01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:25,360 impacts the revenue, it impacts profitability, right. 1243 01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:29,320 But I'd like for you to shed some light on how do these 1244 01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:33,360 broken customer journeys impact profitability beyond just the 1245 01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:36,600 lost deals. Now think about lifetime value, 1246 01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:40,000 referrals, brand reputation. Like what? 1247 01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:41,920 From a holistic perspective, right? 1248 01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:46,360 How do these broken customers journeys affect the 1249 01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:48,280 profitability of an organization? 1250 01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:49,840 Yeah. I mean, listen, you hit on 1251 01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:50,960 something that's really important. 1252 01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:54,440 And if you have somebody that I'll give you, I'll give you 1253 01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:57,440 another example. So I own a home, OK. 1254 01:03:57,960 --> 01:03:59,680 I've had to call contractors to come in. 1255 01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:03,120 I am pretty handy. So I'm the DIY skills you don't 1256 01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:07,360 have, I have, OK. We should be business partners. 1257 01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:13,680 But I'll teach you. I'll teach you so, but but you 1258 01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:15,720 know, I've had to call some people to do things, some things 1259 01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:18,040 that are just, you know, I don't have time for just bigger 1260 01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:20,160 projects. And the person that doesn't call 1261 01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:22,480 me back or says they're going to come and they never come. 1262 01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:24,280 I'm never going to refer to that person. 1263 01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:26,080 I'm never going to call that person again. 1264 01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:29,000 And so it's the same thing in B2B sales. 1265 01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:30,960 If somebody reaches out to your company and they have a bad 1266 01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:33,880 experience, they're not going to think of, they're not going to 1267 01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:35,880 think highly of you. They didn't even work with you. 1268 01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:39,800 But their immediate reaction is, you know, like, I'm not 1269 01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:42,880 interested, you know, because they got a bad taste in their 1270 01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:44,280 mouth. Even though you might be the 1271 01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:47,560 best company for them, they're not willing to look any further. 1272 01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:50,800 So it's going to affect getting exposure, right? 1273 01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:53,680 The brand awareness, like the way people think about you, 1274 01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:57,040 especially if you're in a consumer or retail business and 1275 01:04:57,040 --> 01:04:58,880 someone has a bad experience, what do they do? 1276 01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:02,960 They leave a bad Google review, or they go on TripAdvisor and 1277 01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:05,480 they leave a bad review about the hotel, about the restaurant. 1278 01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:09,000 OK, this is all part of the process. 1279 01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:11,320 It's not only sales, it's customer service, it's the 1280 01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:16,360 customer experience is not just designed to help the sales team, 1281 01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:19,240 it's designed to give an experience of your brand, of 1282 01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:23,600 your business, the best possible version of itself to the person 1283 01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:24,680 that might want to work with you. 1284 01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:28,480 So there's a lot of stake that when these things aren't set up 1285 01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:32,120 correctly, that can go wrong very quickly and just build and 1286 01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:34,280 snowball on top of them, you know? 1287 01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:36,920 So, so yeah, so it's the answer to the question. 1288 01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:41,920 It's has a lot of points that can derive other issues down the 1289 01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:44,440 road. It's not just that the deal was 1290 01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:47,840 sitting in a stage for too long. It's what happened to the person 1291 01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:51,440 that never got a call back. You know, Amelia wanted to host 1292 01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:53,280 a webinar, but the tool couldn't deliver. 1293 01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:56,640 Zooming out, she turned to Webinarchy, an expert solution 1294 01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:58,800 for webinars. With seamless setup and 1295 01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:01,400 intuitive design. She delivered the perfect 1296 01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:04,600 webinar. Webinar key host webinars like a 1297 01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:07,000 boss. Interesting. 1298 01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:11,200 You know, as finance people, you know, we are usually very 1299 01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:15,000 obsessed with the numbers, with metrics, right? 1300 01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:19,040 Of course, you know, it's easy to tell narratives, to tell the 1301 01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:25,320 stories with the numbers, right? So I like to put forward to you 1302 01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:29,480 a couple of operational questions that I think every 1303 01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:32,600 founder, every CFO should be asking. 1304 01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:37,120 And you know these are levers that separate efficient scaling 1305 01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:41,560 from expensive cares. So from a weekly perspective, in 1306 01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:45,800 terms of weekly metrics that matter, So what, what what 1307 01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:49,880 metrics should CF OS and founders the monitoring on a 1308 01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:54,440 weekly basis to stay ahead of the revenue problems before to 1309 01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:56,360 become a crisis? Yeah. 1310 01:06:56,560 --> 01:07:00,440 So one thing you want to know is how many brand new people are 1311 01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:03,000 you talking to as a prospective customer and what is that 1312 01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:05,520 number? And then where are they? 1313 01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:07,240 So like, have you spoken to them? 1314 01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:09,240 Do you have a meeting scheduled with them? 1315 01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:11,360 What is the next step with that person? 1316 01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:14,040 Another thing you really also want to be looking at is what 1317 01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:17,240 are they doing for all the leads they've had in the past? 1318 01:07:17,240 --> 01:07:19,400 What are they doing in that particular week to follow up 1319 01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:21,920 with everything from the weeks and months prior? 1320 01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:23,760 You know, where are they organized? 1321 01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:27,320 Another thing you want to look at too is, which I think a lot 1322 01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:29,800 of people don't do, look at some of their emails that they're 1323 01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:31,440 sending to prospective customers. 1324 01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:33,880 Sit with them, sit at their computer or have them open up 1325 01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:37,000 the emails, read the emails. Do they represent the business? 1326 01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:39,560 Are they coming across as really salesy and pushy? 1327 01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:43,160 Are they coming across in the way that you want them to talk 1328 01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:45,920 to prospective customers to represent the business? 1329 01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:48,280 Because a lot of times salespeople are really good at 1330 01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:50,680 selling and talking. They're not so good at writing 1331 01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:53,640 emails, unfortunately. And so, so not to say, oh, darn 1332 01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:55,360 right, a lot of them are. But there are a lot that I've 1333 01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:58,880 seen that are just very abrupt and very short and they're not 1334 01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:01,960 where they use bad grammar. You know, any, any number of 1335 01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:05,280 things could be a problem. So that you've seen that, right? 1336 01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:08,040 I've seen that a lot. That is why that is that is why 1337 01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:11,520 I'm laughing because it's it's like you are you're activating 1338 01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:17,640 my trauma. But one thing I'll tell you 1339 01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:21,720 about sales guys is and and I think it's a running issue that 1340 01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:25,319 I have with a lot of them. A lot of them believe in 1341 01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:29,520 creating what I think is a false sense of urgency, right? 1342 01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:35,600 So, and I feel like he sort of gives off a vibe of desperation 1343 01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:41,080 to the customer, right? I hate sounding salesy, right? 1344 01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:44,000 But they tell you no, they are not. 1345 01:08:44,120 --> 01:08:46,680 They are not sounding salesy. They're not, you know, being 1346 01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:50,200 desperate. They are only acting on urgency. 1347 01:08:50,399 --> 01:08:54,600 So why? That's culture of urgency, 1348 01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:56,200 right? From salespeople. 1349 01:08:56,279 --> 01:08:59,920 Yeah, one of the best emails. I'll finish to say that. 1350 01:08:59,920 --> 01:09:02,880 The other thing that they should be looking for, the last thing 1351 01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:05,520 is how are they using the system, right. 1352 01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:08,439 A lot of these systems, you could have a log of when your 1353 01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:11,120 team is logged in, what they're doing in the system. 1354 01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:14,399 So if they tell you that things are good or things aren't good, 1355 01:09:14,479 --> 01:09:16,399 look into the system. You'll be able to see their 1356 01:09:16,399 --> 01:09:18,399 activity. And so if they're not doing the 1357 01:09:18,399 --> 01:09:21,160 things they're supposed to be doing, then that's probably part 1358 01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:24,439 of the reason it's not working. One of the emails that I love 1359 01:09:24,439 --> 01:09:27,960 best that work exceptionally well, I call it the good news, 1360 01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:31,080 bad news e-mail, and there's lots of versions of it out 1361 01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:33,120 there. But when I've had a conversation 1362 01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:36,359 with somebody, usually it's more than one and things are going 1363 01:09:36,359 --> 01:09:39,080 well or maybe they're just kind of intermittent, but then they 1364 01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:41,279 sort of disappear here. They stop returning my phone 1365 01:09:41,279 --> 01:09:43,279 calls, they stop returning the emails. 1366 01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:46,439 Happens to all of us, right? Even me, my e-mail is subject 1367 01:09:46,439 --> 01:09:49,040 messages, good news or bad news question mark. 1368 01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:50,560 And it goes to something like this. 1369 01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:52,960 Adam Allah, it's, you know, we've had a great conversation 1370 01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:56,040 about XYZI give specific details about what we spoke about. 1371 01:09:56,200 --> 01:09:58,720 I say to them, I understand, you know, things change and, and 1372 01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:02,320 you're busy and, and, and if this needs to take a back seat, 1373 01:10:02,480 --> 01:10:05,680 it's not a problem at all. If you've hired somebody, not a 1374 01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:07,720 problem. I understand if you don't mind 1375 01:10:07,720 --> 01:10:10,360 just replying and let me and let me know if you have of good news 1376 01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:12,960 or bad news. Any news would be appreciated. 1377 01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:15,840 And that always gets a response, usually the same day. 1378 01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:19,600 You know, because I'm giving them, I'm giving them an out 1379 01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:21,240 right. I'm giving them a reason to say 1380 01:10:21,240 --> 01:10:24,120 we don't need you anymore, or I'm giving them a reason to say, 1381 01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:27,720 sorry, I've totally flaked and I should have let you know that 1382 01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:30,640 there's been a six month delay or we're not going to do this 1383 01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:33,320 until next year. My apologies for not getting 1384 01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:35,800 back to you sooner. You know, let's talk next year, 1385 01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:38,320 let's talk next month. It always gets some type of 1386 01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:40,440 reaction. And so that's not me being 1387 01:10:40,440 --> 01:10:43,800 salesy or pushy or making a sense of timing is just saying, 1388 01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:45,560 Hey, I'm going to keep following up. 1389 01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:48,000 I'm going to keep calling you, I'm going to keep emailing you. 1390 01:10:48,120 --> 01:10:50,640 And you know, if you don't want me to keep doing that, just let 1391 01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:52,920 me know and I'll stop. But I just need to know like 1392 01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:56,320 where, where things are at, you know, so there's all different 1393 01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:58,440 tactics. I mean, I've seen, you know, the 1394 01:10:58,440 --> 01:11:00,680 the funniest one I think I ever saw, which was really, really 1395 01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:02,240 bad. It was somebody sent me like a 1396 01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:05,800 GIF and there was somebody like sitting like on a on a bench, 1397 01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:07,400 like in a park. And there was like nobody 1398 01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:09,760 around. And it just said like, I'm here 1399 01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:11,640 waiting for you. And that's like all it's said. 1400 01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:16,440 Yeah, you know, I was just saying, OK, whatever. 1401 01:11:16,440 --> 01:11:18,600 I know you're trying to be cute, but like, that's just, you know, 1402 01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:22,880 I'm not going to reply to this e-mail, you know, So you know, 1403 01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:25,920 of I think that's one thing that gets overlooked is that 1404 01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:30,960 leadership is assuming that the company is being represented. 1405 01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:33,760 Think about this. When you're doing marketing, who 1406 01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:35,240 has to approve the marketing, right? 1407 01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:37,960 It's usually the marketing team. And then like the, you know, the 1408 01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:41,120 owner of the company or somebody high up has to the CMO what it's 1409 01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:42,840 going to look like, what it's going to say, right? 1410 01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:45,720 What what it's going to what's, what's the call to action? 1411 01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:47,680 They have to prove everything. But when you have a sales 1412 01:11:47,680 --> 01:11:51,200 manager, sorry, when you have a sales manager and they're doing 1413 01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:53,480 their thing, no one's looking to be like, well, how's the sales 1414 01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:56,240 sales salesperson talking to prospects? 1415 01:11:57,440 --> 01:11:59,400 You know, how are they communicating? 1416 01:11:59,440 --> 01:12:02,720 But they're not, you know, not doing that a lot of times. 1417 01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:04,760 And so I think there's a huge missed opportunity there. 1418 01:12:05,320 --> 01:12:08,960 It's just and stuff, you know, definitely between yourself and 1419 01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:12,800 myself, we've seen a lot of interesting, you know, sales 1420 01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:17,560 communications, right, that can form another podcast episode on 1421 01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:21,800 its own, right? But Speaking of automation 1422 01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:25,680 without getting burnt out. So what role does automation 1423 01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:29,960 play in scaling efficiently without burning out, you know, 1424 01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:33,000 teams? And where do companies typically 1425 01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:36,280 over automate or under automate? Yeah. 1426 01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:39,200 I mean, so automation is helpful. 1427 01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:42,800 It's important, but there has to be a human component to it. 1428 01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:46,080 You have to pick up the phone, you have to call somebody, send 1429 01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:48,680 them a message on LinkedIn, send them a text message. 1430 01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:52,200 If you just relying on automation to communicate with 1431 01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:54,640 people, people are pretty savvy, right? 1432 01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:57,240 So they're going to know it's not really you and that your 1433 01:12:57,240 --> 01:13:00,920 system is just generating all this noise to them that does 1434 01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:02,840 doesn't work for most businesses. 1435 01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:05,920 You know, sorry. They, they, they, they want to 1436 01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:08,000 talk to somebody. They want to know that you're a 1437 01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:10,480 real person. They want to have an exchange, a 1438 01:13:10,480 --> 01:13:12,120 conversation like we're having here. 1439 01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:15,920 So there has to be a delicate balance between automation and 1440 01:13:15,920 --> 01:13:19,120 then the human piece of that interweaving into the 1441 01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:23,200 automation. Hey, so that human touch, like 1442 01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:24,600 you said, is actually very important. 1443 01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:27,960 And of course, that's something that I place a lot of emphasis 1444 01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:31,200 on, right? I don't like the idea of getting 1445 01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:35,040 communication that is very, very easy to detect. 1446 01:13:35,080 --> 01:13:37,680 Okay, this is actually AI generated. 1447 01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:40,760 I think it becomes really annoying these days because of 1448 01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:44,040 the volume of, you know, communications that you get, you 1449 01:13:44,040 --> 01:13:47,520 know, that are AI generated. So I think founders should 1450 01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:51,760 should take note of that. So for me personally, I prefer 1451 01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:56,760 getting a short message that I know is handcrafted all right, 1452 01:13:56,880 --> 01:14:00,240 instead of, you know, speaking with with an AI tool. 1453 01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:05,520 But moving on to the sales cycles, how can businesses 1454 01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:09,400 shorten sales cycles without sacrificing relationship 1455 01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:12,160 quality? You know, and the tension every 1456 01:14:12,160 --> 01:14:14,560 sales leader gets to feel. Well, it comes down to the 1457 01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:17,640 process, right? So the sales cycle is going to 1458 01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:20,840 come from what is our process. You know, if a demo isn't 1459 01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:23,040 necessary, don't do a demo, right? 1460 01:14:23,080 --> 01:14:27,200 If if a going to the home isn't necessary to give an estimate, 1461 01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:28,920 you could give an estimate without going to the home. 1462 01:14:29,120 --> 01:14:31,800 Don't take the time to schedule the appointment, right? 1463 01:14:32,160 --> 01:14:35,160 Maybe it's not necessary. So that's where you have to 1464 01:14:35,160 --> 01:14:38,920 really look at what that process looks like on paper to figure 1465 01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:40,440 out where to short the sales cycle. 1466 01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:44,360 The other part is in a lot of CRM systems, you have something 1467 01:14:44,360 --> 01:14:46,880 called a conversion analysis report. 1468 01:14:47,120 --> 01:14:50,480 The conversion analysis is going to tell you, on average how long 1469 01:14:50,480 --> 01:14:53,560 does it take to go from one stage of your sales process to 1470 01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:56,800 the next stage and to the next stage and how many people drop 1471 01:14:56,800 --> 01:14:59,480 off right and don't actually move forward. 1472 01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:02,560 So think of it like as on your website, someone goes to your 1473 01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:04,600 homepage. A lot of businesses have high 1474 01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:06,200 bounce rates. You know, they might have like 1475 01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:08,400 an 80% bounce rate. What does that mean? 1476 01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:11,240 80% of the people that go to your homepage leave right away. 1477 01:15:11,360 --> 01:15:13,640 They don't go anywhere else. They're not even looking through 1478 01:15:13,640 --> 01:15:17,000 another page. So you have to understand how 1479 01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:20,040 people are going through that sales process in order to figure 1480 01:15:20,040 --> 01:15:21,960 out where you could actually shorten it up. 1481 01:15:22,160 --> 01:15:24,720 And it might be like the things we're talking might, it might be 1482 01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:28,000 about the automation, It might be someone picking up the phone. 1483 01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:30,160 So for example, sending out a proposal. 1484 01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:32,760 A lot of people just send out a proposal, just wait and wait for 1485 01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:35,160 the phone to ring. They wait for the e-mail to say, 1486 01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:37,560 this sounds good, let's go forward and maybe there's a 1487 01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:40,200 follow up here or there. But a lot of times there's not 1488 01:15:40,440 --> 01:15:43,480 consistent follow up that could shorten the cycle dramatically. 1489 01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:46,240 A text message goes out. We just sent you the proposal. 1490 01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:47,800 Let us know if you have any questions. 1491 01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:50,600 A few days later, someone calls. We know you might need some more 1492 01:15:50,600 --> 01:15:52,000 time. We just want to give you a call 1493 01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:54,200 and see if you want to talk to us about any questions you might 1494 01:15:54,200 --> 01:15:56,200 have. Maybe a week or two goes by, 1495 01:15:56,320 --> 01:15:58,760 another e-mail goes out. We're just following up. 1496 01:15:58,760 --> 01:16:01,160 Jason, no pressure. We just want to make sure that 1497 01:16:01,160 --> 01:16:02,960 you have everything you need. We haven't heard from you. 1498 01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:06,480 So every piece of that communication is just trying to 1499 01:16:06,480 --> 01:16:09,600 help them to get to a decision. I'm not trying to pressure them 1500 01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:11,480 to get there. It's making sure that they're 1501 01:16:11,480 --> 01:16:13,200 equipped with all the information they need. 1502 01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:15,760 Those are the ways that we're going to help reduce the 1503 01:16:15,760 --> 01:16:18,000 process, the sales cycle and and short it up. 1504 01:16:18,280 --> 01:16:21,320 But without those moving pieces or without the system, it's 1505 01:16:21,320 --> 01:16:23,880 going to be very difficult to shorten the sales cycle because 1506 01:16:23,880 --> 01:16:25,640 you don't again go back to my bucket. 1507 01:16:25,880 --> 01:16:26,960 You don't know where the leaks are. 1508 01:16:27,160 --> 01:16:30,800 And so if you're blindfolded, there's no way you can take a 1509 01:16:30,800 --> 01:16:33,800 piece of tape to cover the holes in the bucket and fix it, 1510 01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:35,080 because you won't be able to see them. 1511 01:16:35,320 --> 01:16:38,520 Interesting. So I'm glad that you have 1512 01:16:38,520 --> 01:16:41,360 experience across various industries. 1513 01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:45,200 So from your experience across these industries, what 1514 01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:49,760 industries would you say are still notably under utilizing 1515 01:16:49,760 --> 01:16:53,320 CRM technology and what exactly is holding them back? 1516 01:16:53,360 --> 01:16:56,920 Yeah. Home service businesses are, are 1517 01:16:56,920 --> 01:16:58,280 a big one. I think they're starting to 1518 01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:01,200 recognize the need for it, but they're that's, you know, I'm 1519 01:17:01,200 --> 01:17:05,160 talking about contractors and scapers, you know, electricians, 1520 01:17:05,160 --> 01:17:08,320 plumbers, referring companies, anybody doing work on your on 1521 01:17:08,320 --> 01:17:10,120 your house. I think that's a really big one. 1522 01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:13,040 Another really big one is manufacturers factors are tend 1523 01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:16,640 to do a lot of quotes and they have it like an ERP system or 1524 01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:18,880 system that manages the quotes. A lot of times they're not 1525 01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:23,200 really using automation or CRM to nurture those relationships. 1526 01:17:23,200 --> 01:17:26,000 They're also what we didn't talk about today, which is a huge 1527 01:17:26,000 --> 01:17:28,560 gold mine. The bigger the company, it's 1528 01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:30,560 expected you're going to have customers that you haven't 1529 01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:34,280 spoken to in years, right? They used to work with you, they 1530 01:17:34,280 --> 01:17:36,480 hired you, they were happy with you, and for whatever reason, 1531 01:17:36,480 --> 01:17:39,040 they stopped working with you. Most companies never go back to 1532 01:17:39,040 --> 01:17:42,040 find out why and to try to rekindle that relationship. 1533 01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:45,480 CRM is a great tool for that. It's a great tool to go back and 1534 01:17:45,480 --> 01:17:49,560 to, you know, try to generate revenue without spending any 1535 01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:52,520 money to generate that revenue. And these are people that 1536 01:17:52,640 --> 01:17:56,720 hopefully we're happy with you. Another industry besides those 1537 01:17:56,720 --> 01:18:00,760 two are any volume. And this is really not an 1538 01:18:00,760 --> 01:18:03,840 industry, but more of like a painting a picture of a 1539 01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:09,520 business, Excuse me, It'd be a business that has at least 50 1540 01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:13,440 leads per month coming in and at least has one salesperson full 1541 01:18:13,440 --> 01:18:15,960 time that's responsible for managing those leads. 1542 01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:18,360 They could have more and they're generally probably going to be 1543 01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:23,560 spending a couple of $1000, You know, whatever currency you 1544 01:18:23,560 --> 01:18:26,800 have, you know, wherever you're listening on marketing. 1545 01:18:26,920 --> 01:18:29,400 And if you do, if you have those three things running, you have 1546 01:18:29,400 --> 01:18:32,320 leads coming in, you have one person's job, it is to try to 1547 01:18:32,320 --> 01:18:33,880 close those leads and convert them. 1548 01:18:34,040 --> 01:18:36,360 And you're spending your money on marketing and you don't have 1549 01:18:36,360 --> 01:18:38,960 a CRM. That's a huge problem because I 1550 01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:40,920 guarantee you things are full of cracks. 1551 01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:45,600 Interesting. So how is AI changing CRM 1552 01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:48,560 technology and lead nurturing right now? 1553 01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:51,840 No, not just about the Fiori, but the actual tools and 1554 01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:54,960 workflows that you've seen clients are using. 1555 01:18:54,960 --> 01:18:58,840 So the biggest ones are capturing all, everything that 1556 01:18:58,840 --> 01:19:01,360 was said. So today we're talking, there's 1557 01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:05,000 going to be a transcript of our conversation and you and I may 1558 01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:07,120 have a decent memory. We're not going to remember word 1559 01:19:07,120 --> 01:19:08,360 for word everything that was said. 1560 01:19:08,360 --> 01:19:10,440 It's it's virtually impossible because we're going to leave 1561 01:19:10,440 --> 01:19:13,080 this conversation and go get into our next meeting and do 1562 01:19:13,080 --> 01:19:16,840 other things. So AI has the power to not only 1563 01:19:17,040 --> 01:19:20,600 grab that transcription, but it could analyze it and it could 1564 01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:23,440 find all the important things that were said or all the things 1565 01:19:23,440 --> 01:19:27,000 that a prospect said that signaled what their pain points 1566 01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:29,280 were or what would solve their solution. 1567 01:19:29,480 --> 01:19:32,840 And then if you couple that with building AI tools, which we do a 1568 01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:35,920 lot for clients to say, OK, now that you have the transcript, 1569 01:19:36,080 --> 01:19:38,000 how would you respond? What would, what should the 1570 01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:40,320 e-mail follow up be to that person? 1571 01:19:40,360 --> 01:19:44,600 It's analyzing the data in a way that us humans, it would take us 1572 01:19:44,680 --> 01:19:47,840 hours and hours and sometimes it would even be impossible to 1573 01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:50,560 analyze the way that the AI can analyze the data. 1574 01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:52,160 That's going to be the biggest impact. 1575 01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:55,600 It's already being a big impact. We're also seeing it with chat 1576 01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:57,880 bots. So think of ChatGPT for for 1577 01:19:57,880 --> 01:20:01,520 example, but a ChatGPT that's built specifically for your 1578 01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:04,040 business. So ChatGPT is looking all over 1579 01:20:04,040 --> 01:20:06,760 the the world, right, for information and resources. 1580 01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:10,800 A custom chat bot is trained on your business specific and knows 1581 01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:12,800 everything about your business and knows all your products, 1582 01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:15,720 your services and knows everything you do and knows you 1583 01:20:15,720 --> 01:20:18,920 know the biggest challenges customers have, how you solve 1584 01:20:18,920 --> 01:20:21,880 those challenges and knows everybody's on your team, their 1585 01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:24,120 role. It's literally an encyclopedia 1586 01:20:24,120 --> 01:20:26,480 about your business that runs on your website. 1587 01:20:26,560 --> 01:20:29,600 So when people go and ask. Questions it's now talking to 1588 01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:33,200 the smartest person you have at your company, right, that knows 1589 01:20:33,200 --> 01:20:35,840 everything and more about your business and can answer those 1590 01:20:35,840 --> 01:20:38,680 things with the way you would answer them in the tone you 1591 01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:41,320 would answer them in the in the speaking pattern that you would 1592 01:20:41,320 --> 01:20:42,920 answer them. Those are going to be the two 1593 01:20:42,920 --> 01:20:44,520 biggest things. And I think the third one is 1594 01:20:44,520 --> 01:20:48,240 going to be reporting just on data AI is going to be asked 1595 01:20:48,240 --> 01:20:51,200 before about KPIAPAI is definitely going to make that a 1596 01:20:51,200 --> 01:20:54,240 lot easier. So you could go in and ask 1597 01:20:54,240 --> 01:20:57,680 questions and get those results very quickly and a lot of tools. 1598 01:20:57,760 --> 01:21:00,240 So you already have it in place like QuickBooks, which is a 1599 01:21:00,240 --> 01:21:02,560 widely popular, we use QuickBooks for our business 1600 01:21:02,560 --> 01:21:04,720 here. I could go into QuickBooks today 1601 01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:08,120 rather than trying to find a report, I can say what's my 1602 01:21:08,160 --> 01:21:09,840 EBITDA? You're a fan of finance guy, 1603 01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:11,080 right? So. 1604 01:21:11,400 --> 01:21:16,160 And it's before age, trans tax, depreciation and amortization. 1605 01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:18,840 Right. But why is the EBITDA important? 1606 01:21:19,000 --> 01:21:21,280 It tells you how healthy the business is, right? 1607 01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:23,200 Correct. Yeah, exactly. 1608 01:21:23,560 --> 01:21:26,760 Is that is that right? Exactly. 1609 01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:31,200 If you're that's your earnings basically, right, earnings 1610 01:21:31,200 --> 01:21:35,320 before interest, tax, depreciation and amortization. 1611 01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:38,080 So there you go. That's your operating profit 1612 01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:41,640 basically. So if you're if your EBITDA is 1613 01:21:41,640 --> 01:21:44,320 like 2%, there's a problem, right? 1614 01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:50,360 So you know, you want to, so you want to go and make sure that 1615 01:21:50,400 --> 01:21:54,480 you know, so today, like if I wanted to do that before AI, I'd 1616 01:21:54,480 --> 01:21:56,680 have to kind of go and calculate all that myself. 1617 01:21:56,800 --> 01:21:59,400 Now I could go into QuickBooks, It's got an AI tool built in. 1618 01:21:59,400 --> 01:22:03,000 I could say, hey, what's my EBITDA for 2026 compared to so 1619 01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:05,320 far, compared to 2025? Where am I trending? 1620 01:22:05,360 --> 01:22:07,000 Where am I trending in the last five years? 1621 01:22:07,320 --> 01:22:09,760 And it within like minutes, it'll give me that answer, you 1622 01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:11,160 know, calculate everything for me. 1623 01:22:11,440 --> 01:22:15,280 So that's where, you know, we're going to see a big impact, I 1624 01:22:15,280 --> 01:22:18,960 believe, you know. Interesting, you know, talking 1625 01:22:18,960 --> 01:22:23,760 about that AI and automation versus human connection debate, 1626 01:22:23,800 --> 01:22:26,440 right? So do you believe that 1627 01:22:27,040 --> 01:22:31,680 automation will replace human relationship building or will it 1628 01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:34,720 enhance it? So we have that line between 1629 01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:37,560 efficiency and losing the Human Torch. 1630 01:22:37,640 --> 01:22:40,240 I think that business will try to replace it, but I think 1631 01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:42,680 you're going to you're going to feel it. 1632 01:22:42,840 --> 01:22:45,120 You're going to know that it's AI, It's not genuine. 1633 01:22:45,120 --> 01:22:49,360 So there has to be, in my belief, there has to be a blend 1634 01:22:49,440 --> 01:22:51,440 of technology and of real people. 1635 01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:55,440 It's getting harder and harder to, I think for people to stay 1636 01:22:55,440 --> 01:22:59,400 loyal to that because AI is so easily accessible and it's so 1637 01:22:59,440 --> 01:23:02,680 effortless in some ways that people are relying on that. 1638 01:23:02,680 --> 01:23:05,400 Well, I think a little too heavily, but ultimately people 1639 01:23:05,400 --> 01:23:08,080 like, you know, in, in sales, people are buying you. 1640 01:23:08,320 --> 01:23:11,640 They're not buying cold device. They're not, they're not buying. 1641 01:23:11,800 --> 01:23:13,880 They're not hiring me because I have a nice website. 1642 01:23:14,120 --> 01:23:17,000 They're hiring us because of the conversations I've had with them 1643 01:23:17,240 --> 01:23:20,120 and the value they understand I can bring to their business. 1644 01:23:20,200 --> 01:23:22,360 Maybe I've cracked a joke. Maybe they like me, they think 1645 01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:24,400 I'm funny and I don't know whatever it is, right? 1646 01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:26,920 But they're buying. They're buying us because 1647 01:23:26,920 --> 01:23:30,560 they're they're buying into me. And AI is never going to be able 1648 01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:32,400 to replace that. I agree with you. 1649 01:23:32,400 --> 01:23:33,640 And of course, I'll tell you this. 1650 01:23:33,960 --> 01:23:38,040 People buy from people. They know the like and the 1651 01:23:38,040 --> 01:23:40,160 trust. That's something I realized, 1652 01:23:40,400 --> 01:23:41,920 right, that they need to know you. 1653 01:23:41,920 --> 01:23:44,400 They need to. Yeah, But the question, we are 1654 01:23:44,400 --> 01:23:48,960 emotional beings, right? People would typically buy from 1655 01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:53,440 a person they they feel like they know the like and the 1656 01:23:53,440 --> 01:23:55,400 trust, right. And of course, you know, 1657 01:23:55,400 --> 01:23:59,640 Speaking of these tools, I have noticed that a lot of entities 1658 01:23:59,640 --> 01:24:04,160 are obsessed, you know, with AI tools. 1659 01:24:04,320 --> 01:24:06,360 It's like we are in the AI gold rush. 1660 01:24:06,360 --> 01:24:08,720 Basically. It's a a bubble, but what's your 1661 01:24:08,720 --> 01:24:13,040 advice of businesses that have become overwhelmed by too many 1662 01:24:13,040 --> 01:24:17,720 tools and disconnected systems? So how do you simplify without 1663 01:24:17,720 --> 01:24:20,600 losing capability? This is the easiest way to test 1664 01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:23,080 that. So First off, make a list of all 1665 01:24:23,080 --> 01:24:25,160 the tools you use for your business, all the software. 1666 01:24:25,320 --> 01:24:27,680 Write down how much it cost you, right? 1667 01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:28,800 Because that's important to know. 1668 01:24:28,920 --> 01:24:32,080 Find out who in your company uses that, who's the main person 1669 01:24:32,080 --> 01:24:34,880 or the couple people that use it most, And then sit with them for 1670 01:24:34,880 --> 01:24:38,120 one hour and have them show you how they use that tool every 1671 01:24:38,120 --> 01:24:40,000 single day. What are you going to uncover? 1672 01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:43,480 You're going to uncover very quickly how important that tool 1673 01:24:43,480 --> 01:24:46,480 is to the business and how important it is to that person. 1674 01:24:47,040 --> 01:24:50,840 And then really what will unfold is to recognize the software 1675 01:24:50,840 --> 01:24:53,600 that you don't need, the software that's integral to your 1676 01:24:53,600 --> 01:24:58,000 business, and the software that has the potential to be more 1677 01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:02,000 impactful, but it needs some, you know, some help to get 1678 01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:03,800 there. A lot of companies are spending 1679 01:25:03,800 --> 01:25:05,320 a lot of money on software they don't need. 1680 01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:08,760 So that's the reality. Exactly, right, too many tools, 1681 01:25:08,760 --> 01:25:13,040 but too little clarity, right? They tend to lack clarity. 1682 01:25:13,040 --> 01:25:15,240 And of course, you know, one of the things that you touched on 1683 01:25:15,240 --> 01:25:18,520 earlier is that one-size-fits-all CRM 1684 01:25:18,520 --> 01:25:22,080 implementation, which is usually bound to fail. 1685 01:25:22,240 --> 01:25:25,200 So So what? What does a proper customer my 1686 01:25:25,880 --> 01:25:27,760 implementation look like in practice? 1687 01:25:27,760 --> 01:25:29,280 Sure. So it has to start with the 1688 01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:32,400 strategy, It has to start with meeting with the executive team, 1689 01:25:32,400 --> 01:25:35,280 with the sales team, with the marketing team and putting on 1690 01:25:35,280 --> 01:25:37,800 paper how does the organization work today? 1691 01:25:37,920 --> 01:25:40,800 How do you get your leads? How do you work those leads to 1692 01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:43,520 turn them into a customer? What happens when they become a 1693 01:25:43,520 --> 01:25:45,320 customer? Understanding if there's 1694 01:25:45,320 --> 01:25:48,280 different products you sell or to different markets, different 1695 01:25:48,280 --> 01:25:51,040 industries, your sales process might be different. 1696 01:25:51,160 --> 01:25:53,400 We need to understand the whole landscape of everything before 1697 01:25:53,400 --> 01:25:56,000 we even touch the software. Figure that out and we map 1698 01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:58,280 everything visually out of how are things going to work. 1699 01:25:58,440 --> 01:26:02,160 Then you would hire somebody like cultivars like Jason to 1700 01:26:02,160 --> 01:26:04,400 build what we just planned, right? 1701 01:26:04,400 --> 01:26:08,040 So, so think of like you hire an architect to design your home, 1702 01:26:08,240 --> 01:26:09,880 but then you, the architect doesn't build it. 1703 01:26:09,880 --> 01:26:12,960 You need to go hire the builder that's going to build a home and 1704 01:26:12,960 --> 01:26:15,720 then you have to hire the interior decorator that's going 1705 01:26:15,720 --> 01:26:17,280 to design the inside of the home. 1706 01:26:18,120 --> 01:26:19,600 OK, we do it. All right. 1707 01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:21,440 You don't have to hire all these different people. 1708 01:26:21,480 --> 01:26:24,360 So we we design the Sierra and we build it. 1709 01:26:24,680 --> 01:26:27,800 We train the team on how to use it. 1710 01:26:28,120 --> 01:26:30,280 All of our training happens over video calls. 1711 01:26:30,280 --> 01:26:35,520 So if you're want to look for a new CRM, find out what the 1712 01:26:35,520 --> 01:26:38,760 training process looks like, find out how long that process 1713 01:26:38,760 --> 01:26:41,280 is, what's included. You really want somebody to be 1714 01:26:41,280 --> 01:26:43,880 holding your hand. I've given a lot of examples 1715 01:26:43,880 --> 01:26:46,880 and, and analogies on the conversation today and I'm all 1716 01:26:46,960 --> 01:26:49,800 so this is the last analogy to be it'll be maybe won't be the 1717 01:26:49,800 --> 01:26:53,520 last, but it'll be the last one. Maybe is do you know how to ride 1718 01:26:53,520 --> 01:26:57,520 a bike, a bicycle? So, OK, so when when you learn 1719 01:26:57,520 --> 01:27:01,680 to run a bicycle, right, you have training wheels, OK, and 1720 01:27:01,680 --> 01:27:03,360 you're, and you're on the training wheels and, and you 1721 01:27:03,360 --> 01:27:05,560 don't need anybody's help. You can just, you can just do it 1722 01:27:05,560 --> 01:27:08,120 on your own. But when you take those training 1723 01:27:08,120 --> 01:27:11,240 wheels off, you can try to go on your own, but usually your 1724 01:27:11,240 --> 01:27:14,200 parent or somebody's holding the back seat, right and keeping you 1725 01:27:14,200 --> 01:27:16,480 stable and running with you while you're learning to 1726 01:27:16,480 --> 01:27:18,480 balance. That's what we do here at Called 1727 01:27:18,480 --> 01:27:21,160 Device. We hold on to the seat for the 1728 01:27:21,160 --> 01:27:23,520 sales team, for the marketing, for the whole organization once 1729 01:27:23,520 --> 01:27:26,120 the CRM is set up, after training has been done. 1730 01:27:26,280 --> 01:27:30,040 And we'll hold on to that seat for weeks, months, even years. 1731 01:27:30,040 --> 01:27:33,200 And we don't let go until we see that everybody's fully stable 1732 01:27:33,200 --> 01:27:34,680 and comfortable within the platform. 1733 01:27:34,880 --> 01:27:37,160 And that's the biggest differentiator there for our 1734 01:27:37,160 --> 01:27:40,240 business and other people like us is that we, a lot of 1735 01:27:40,240 --> 01:27:42,240 companies will just do the training and then they'll be 1736 01:27:42,240 --> 01:27:44,760 done and be like, OK, you're all set. 1737 01:27:44,880 --> 01:27:47,400 The reality is that training is never ending. 1738 01:27:47,560 --> 01:27:48,840 You're always going to need training. 1739 01:27:49,080 --> 01:27:51,040 You're always also going to need adjustments. 1740 01:27:51,200 --> 01:27:54,040 So I would say that all the bigger, biggest failure in CRM 1741 01:27:54,040 --> 01:27:58,160 implementation beyond all those things is believing that once 1742 01:27:58,160 --> 01:28:01,120 you set up your CRM, it's done. It's not done. 1743 01:28:01,320 --> 01:28:04,280 You're always going to be making changes to your CRM for years 1744 01:28:04,400 --> 01:28:06,600 because your business is going to change, your products will 1745 01:28:06,600 --> 01:28:09,320 change, your way of selling might change, your marketing 1746 01:28:09,320 --> 01:28:11,680 strategies will change, your messaging will change. 1747 01:28:11,680 --> 01:28:13,360 There's always going to be something that's going to need 1748 01:28:13,360 --> 01:28:15,600 to change you. You built a new website that 1749 01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:17,640 needs to be integrated or whatever it might be. 1750 01:28:17,720 --> 01:28:21,040 So to believe that ACRM is going to be set up once and never 1751 01:28:21,040 --> 01:28:23,960 modified or never updated is something where I think a lot of 1752 01:28:23,960 --> 01:28:25,840 people have a disillusion to as well. 1753 01:28:26,040 --> 01:28:28,000 Yeah. I mean, just with the way that 1754 01:28:28,000 --> 01:28:32,360 AI is just exploded in the last number of years, I think we're 1755 01:28:32,360 --> 01:28:36,560 going to see that the CRM is going to be able to analyze data 1756 01:28:36,560 --> 01:28:39,200 outside of its own platform. It's going to be able to look at 1757 01:28:39,200 --> 01:28:41,320 e-mail communication. It's going to be able to look at 1758 01:28:41,560 --> 01:28:44,800 phone call transcripts. It's going to look at meetings 1759 01:28:44,920 --> 01:28:49,280 and it's going to predict what needs to be done next and when 1760 01:28:49,280 --> 01:28:50,920 that next action needs to be done. 1761 01:28:50,920 --> 01:28:53,640 So there'll still be automation, but I think that it's going to 1762 01:28:53,640 --> 01:28:58,560 be driven by more intelligence than the predictive model that 1763 01:28:58,560 --> 01:29:00,600 we're doing today. We're predicting what should 1764 01:29:00,600 --> 01:29:02,960 happen next and we're and we're telling the system what to do. 1765 01:29:03,160 --> 01:29:06,200 Whereas I think AI is going to be more reactive where it's 1766 01:29:06,200 --> 01:29:09,120 going to analyze things in real time and it's going to prompt us 1767 01:29:09,120 --> 01:29:11,680 to do different things or suggest different things to do 1768 01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:14,960 when those opportunities arise. It comes down to process. 1769 01:29:15,120 --> 01:29:17,440 No matter where you are, whatever country you're in, 1770 01:29:17,440 --> 01:29:19,680 whatever time zone you're in, whatever language you might 1771 01:29:19,680 --> 01:29:23,160 speak, wherever your customer might be, regardless of the size 1772 01:29:23,160 --> 01:29:25,360 of your team, process is process. 1773 01:29:25,520 --> 01:29:29,520 And if you don't have a process to today and the process is in 1774 01:29:29,520 --> 01:29:33,000 somebody's head and the process has never been written down for 1775 01:29:33,000 --> 01:29:36,040 what happens when you get a lead and how does that lead turn into 1776 01:29:36,040 --> 01:29:37,800 a customer? And what are all the little 1777 01:29:37,800 --> 01:29:40,760 steps that happened in between there, then that's something 1778 01:29:40,760 --> 01:29:42,160 that you need to pay attention to today. 1779 01:29:42,160 --> 01:29:44,760 So if you've listened to this whole episode, and I know we've 1780 01:29:44,760 --> 01:29:47,080 been talking a long time, that'll be the last thing I did. 1781 01:29:47,080 --> 01:29:49,880 Last piece of advice is get out a piece of paper and write down 1782 01:29:49,880 --> 01:29:52,440 your process. And if you don't have one, write 1783 01:29:52,440 --> 01:29:55,200 down what you believe it is, what you think it is, and then 1784 01:29:55,200 --> 01:29:57,000 figuring out how to improve it from there. 1785 01:29:57,760 --> 01:29:58,640 That's right. Yeah. 1786 01:29:58,640 --> 01:30:00,680 I mean, for me, it's all about education. 1787 01:30:00,680 --> 01:30:03,600 It's about making people. We're not making people, but 1788 01:30:03,600 --> 01:30:07,040 empowering people to learn something that they didn't know 1789 01:30:07,080 --> 01:30:10,960 before they came across me or came across cultivars and that 1790 01:30:10,960 --> 01:30:15,320 they were inspired enough to be willing to look at things from a 1791 01:30:15,320 --> 01:30:18,360 different perspective and to apply something that we've 1792 01:30:18,360 --> 01:30:20,480 taught them whether they hire us or not. 1793 01:30:20,600 --> 01:30:23,600 That would be the legacy is to know that we've made a 1794 01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:27,200 difference in helping people improve their sales process and 1795 01:30:27,200 --> 01:30:30,160 to growing their businesses at scale. 1796 01:30:30,280 --> 01:30:32,720 Person that I'd love to see on your podcast, I think that's 1797 01:30:32,720 --> 01:30:36,280 somebody you would find interesting to talk to is person 1798 01:30:36,280 --> 01:30:39,840 named Donald C Kelly and he goes by the sales evangelist. 1799 01:30:40,040 --> 01:30:41,760 He's got his own podcast as well. 1800 01:30:42,120 --> 01:30:44,840 Some a show that I've been on myself and I'm not doing it to 1801 01:30:44,840 --> 01:30:46,840 promote him. I just think he's a good guy and 1802 01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:52,200 he's really dialed in on the conversation around how to 1803 01:30:52,320 --> 01:30:54,960 increase and make your sales process more productive. 1804 01:30:55,120 --> 01:30:58,080 Let's go it let's all right, I'm ready. 1805 01:30:58,200 --> 01:31:00,040 There is no answer to that question. 1806 01:31:00,160 --> 01:31:02,960 It really did. That's that's the honest answer. 1807 01:31:03,080 --> 01:31:07,280 That's the honest answer. My answer to that is talk to a 1808 01:31:07,760 --> 01:31:12,840 ACRM consultant that's agnostic, that will find the right CRM for 1809 01:31:12,840 --> 01:31:16,000 your specific needs. But if I had a name one I would 1810 01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:20,240 name, I would say Pipedrive is a really good simple tool for 1811 01:31:20,240 --> 01:31:23,080 somebody who needs a very 26 cream functionality. 1812 01:31:23,640 --> 01:31:28,720 It's called IE drive. I would have to say in general, 1813 01:31:28,720 --> 01:31:32,520 I think impressions is, is overrated urely because it 1814 01:31:32,520 --> 01:31:34,840 doesn't matter how many people saw your billboard when they're 1815 01:31:34,840 --> 01:31:36,920 driving 85 miles an hour on the highway. 1816 01:31:37,080 --> 01:31:39,120 It's about did they actually buy something from you? 1817 01:31:39,120 --> 01:31:42,640 Did they reach out to you? So I think impressions is, you 1818 01:31:42,640 --> 01:31:44,760 know, to me, a little bit useless. 1819 01:31:44,760 --> 01:31:47,120 Did you say a trench? Was that a threat, a threat? 1820 01:31:47,400 --> 01:31:49,360 No, no, it's for sure an opportunity. 1821 01:31:49,360 --> 01:31:52,880 Yes, 100% an opportunity. The one that I, I've read a lot, 1822 01:31:52,880 --> 01:31:56,960 but the one that changed my business is a book called Profit 1823 01:31:57,080 --> 01:32:01,200 First. And so the whole concept of that 1824 01:32:01,200 --> 01:32:05,640 book is that you want to make sure that you are putting away 1825 01:32:05,640 --> 01:32:09,160 the profit you're earning before it's spent on other things. 1826 01:32:09,320 --> 01:32:12,200 And So what it did, the framework is that you have 4 1827 01:32:12,200 --> 01:32:14,280 separate business checking accounts. 1828 01:32:14,440 --> 01:32:17,240 You have one for your income, you have another one for your 1829 01:32:17,240 --> 01:32:20,640 operating expenses, you have another one for your taxes, and 1830 01:32:20,640 --> 01:32:22,040 you have another one for your profit. 1831 01:32:22,240 --> 01:32:26,120 And the idea is that when money comes into the income account on 1832 01:32:26,120 --> 01:32:29,560 a percentage scale, money is automatically transferred into 1833 01:32:29,560 --> 01:32:33,440 the other accounts. And so it helps you grow not 1834 01:32:33,440 --> 01:32:36,200 only cash flow, but also helps you grow wealth for the business 1835 01:32:36,200 --> 01:32:37,160 as well. That's right. 1836 01:32:37,160 --> 01:32:39,000 Your EBITDA. I got the answer. 1837 01:32:39,200 --> 01:32:41,960 I have it. You ready today? 1838 01:32:42,040 --> 01:32:43,840 The answer is we got to do a drum mole. 1839 01:32:43,840 --> 01:32:47,640 The answer is blocking time. Blocking time on your calendar 1840 01:32:47,640 --> 01:32:50,760 to actually do sales activities. Yeah, absolutely. 1841 01:32:50,760 --> 01:32:55,520 So the best place to find me is to go to afterthelead.com. 1842 01:32:55,520 --> 01:32:58,680 afterthelead.com. As I mentioned, the lead 1843 01:32:58,680 --> 01:33:01,160 nurturing we talked about there's a free download for all 1844 01:33:01,160 --> 01:33:04,920 the audience listeners today. There's also a link to schedule 1845 01:33:04,920 --> 01:33:06,440 call for me if you have any questions. 1846 01:33:06,560 --> 01:33:07,840 We connect. Doesn't matter where you are in 1847 01:33:07,840 --> 01:33:09,840 the world. I work with clients all 1848 01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:13,840 literally in multiple countries, so at time zone we can figure 1849 01:33:13,840 --> 01:33:15,600 that out. So that'd be the best place. 1850 01:33:15,600 --> 01:33:17,240 You can look up cultivis as well. 1851 01:33:17,400 --> 01:33:22,200 Little tricky to spell CULTIVIZ e.com. 1852 01:33:22,480 --> 01:33:24,520 And I would imagine that I'm all, all those links and 1853 01:33:24,520 --> 01:33:26,120 information will be in the show notes as well. 1854 01:33:26,240 --> 01:33:29,240 No, I just want to say that it was a pleasure to be here. 1855 01:33:29,240 --> 01:33:30,840 I really enjoyed the conversation. 1856 01:33:30,840 --> 01:33:34,400 And if you'd learned anything today, it's just retraining your 1857 01:33:34,400 --> 01:33:36,960 brain to think about the way you're going about running your 1858 01:33:36,960 --> 01:33:39,600 business when it comes to your processes. 1859 01:33:39,600 --> 01:33:41,360 And I hope you learned something positive.