1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,320 Money drives the world. The infrastructure of that money 2 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:06,040 matters more now than ever. If you think AI is about a chat 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,440 prompt that gets you something scheduled for vacation, maybe 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,040 the bigger impact, though, is going to be in the world of 5 00:00:13,040 --> 00:00:15,480 financial services, in the world of insurance, in the world of 6 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:17,880 this and that. The world is changing and it's 7 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,080 going to change. Before we know it, it's changing 8 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,280 in front of our eyes. If you're curious, if you're 9 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,640 scared of AI, if you're scared of any of these things, if 10 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,280 you're excited about these things, jump in. 11 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:31,920 Give it a listen. Before we dive back into today's 12 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:33,360 conversation, I want to share something important. 13 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:35,200 This episode includes a pay partnership with Better Health, 14 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:37,200 a platform designed to make starting therapy easier. 15 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,040 I know for my own journey as a leader and entrepreneur that 16 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:40,200 life can sometimes feel overwhelming. 17 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:42,000 There are seasons, severe stress, uncertainty, and 18 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,160 pressure build up, and you need a safe space to process it all 19 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:46,600 that severe therapy comes in. Therapy isn't only for people 20 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,280 facing clinical challenges. It's the space to reflect, grow, 21 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,840 and find better ways to suit my stress relationships and has no 22 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:53,760 goals. It takes courage to seek help, 23 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:55,720 but it's also one of the smartest investments you can 24 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:57,000 make in your mental and emotional wealth. 25 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:58,760 That's why I'm proud to highlight Better Health. 26 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:00,960 With Better Health, you see out a short questionnaire and get 27 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:02,920 matched to the credential therapist in just a couple of 28 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:04,280 days. If the first match doesn't feel 29 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,440 like the right field, you can easily switch therapies at no 30 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:08,400 extra cost until you find someone who should connect with 31 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:09,600 you. Inside the platform, you'll also 32 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:11,360 find tools like journaling and group sessions on different 33 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:12,520 topics that can support your growth. 34 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,280 And with over 7000 reviews and a 4.5 Trust validation, Better 35 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:16,840 Help is a platform you can rely on. 36 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,000 So if you feel like you'd benefit from talking to a 37 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:20,760 therapist, visit betterhelp.com/contained. 38 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,880 That's betterhelp.com/contained to get 10% off your first mother 39 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:25,280 therapy. Once again, this is a big 40 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,440 partnership with Better Help, and I encourage you to take that 41 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:29,000 first step if you've been thinking about it. 42 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:30,640 Sometimes the best investment you can make these games 43 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:38,010 yourself. Welcome to the King Dems 44 00:01:38,010 --> 00:01:41,330 podcast, where we share the stories of extraordinary people 45 00:01:41,330 --> 00:01:44,530 and dissect hot, relevant topics that shape our world. 46 00:01:44,850 --> 00:01:47,530 From visionary leaders to trailblazing creatives, we 47 00:01:47,530 --> 00:01:50,890 uncover the mindset, strategy, and grit behind greatness. 48 00:01:51,170 --> 00:01:54,410 Whether it's business, culture, or personal growth, we ask the 49 00:01:54,410 --> 00:01:56,850 real questions. This isn't just conversation, 50 00:01:56,850 --> 00:02:00,410 it's transformation. The Kingdom's podcast, Your Next 51 00:02:00,410 --> 00:02:04,200 Breakthrough, starts here. Music licensing reimagined. 52 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,880 Your life, ladies and gentlemen, once again, welcome to the King 53 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:15,880 James Podcast in Diary of the CFO and today I've got with me 54 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,840 fighting out of the United States of America, Mcwalkum. 55 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:25,440 Zachary. The Morning 2020 hero pattern. 56 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:28,600 I'm in the ring, I'm ready for it. 57 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:33,120 Let's do this. I'm in the ring, baby, let's go. 58 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:35,880 For the For those just catching up, we've been talking for half 59 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,680 an hour and had to force ourselves to start recording 60 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,680 finally. Yeah, we've been having too much 61 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,200 fun. Exactly the audience. 62 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,200 We start on Part 1 of the forecast. 63 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,160 And that means we have to do a Part 2. 64 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,560 But it's going to be really confusing when we go from Part 1 65 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:56,520 about fintech to Part 2 about MMAUFC and the rest of the 66 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:57,200 world. Wow. 67 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,560 OK, so I did. I did do my homework. 68 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,920 I prepare a nice little introduction to you. 69 00:03:03,920 --> 00:03:06,400 So let's see back in it. First, let me give you flowers. 70 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,720 OK, let me get come get comfortable and prepared to 71 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:12,360 accept some flowers. I like this. 72 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,400 OK, let's go. So today on the Kingdom's 73 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,240 broadcast and diary of the CFO, I'm Shield still welcome the 74 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:23,560 true fintech visionary, Zach Pettit, VP of Global Fintech 75 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:27,560 Strategy at Money 2020 and host of the Fintech Family Hour. 76 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,400 Zach has been instrumental in shaping the conversations that 77 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:36,800 define the future of financial innovation, from embedded 78 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,560 banking and digital inclusion to the evolving relationship 79 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:42,320 between technology, money and trust. 80 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,920 He's worked with some of the most influential in tech brands 81 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,400 and continues to build breaches between founders, investors and 82 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,760 vacated in the global in tech ecosystem. 83 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:56,000 SAC. He wants to be welcome to the 84 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,120 show. It's a privilege to have you on 85 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,280 here today. Thank you, my friend, Thank you. 86 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:02,560 I don't know if I deserve all that. 87 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,440 I mean, I'm trying, trying to connect the dots, trying to make 88 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:07,960 the world a better place. But I will take it. 89 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:09,440 And it's good to be here with you, man. 90 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,760 Good to be here with you. It's actually not good to be 91 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,160 here with you on my side. It's actually great to be here 92 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,519 with you. You're oh, you're a one 93 00:04:18,519 --> 00:04:20,320 operator. OK, This is this is going to get 94 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:21,720 competitive. I can already tell. 95 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,520 All right, all right. Whoa, you actually we are so 96 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,080 many hearts right. We were talking about anything 97 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,560 and everything just before we keep the record button, but 98 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,680 let's talk about fintech. Right, take it, take it whatever 99 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,120 direction you want, man. Like I think you know, fintech 100 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,120 is probably fintech, financial services, AI, blockchain, all 101 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:42,520 that's probably where I know the most. 102 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:46,520 But you know, we can explore. It's just a subset of of the 103 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:50,480 man, the myth and the legend. But it is just a sub sect at 104 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:52,200 first. You're passionate about 105 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:53,440 something. I'm passionate about AI. 106 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,400 I am AI. My parents knew something 107 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,800 everybody did not know, like they just had to code it. 108 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,200 They knew that I'm actually an endangered species. 109 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,280 So said, OK, let let's protect this one. 110 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,480 Let's not call him artificial intelligence. 111 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:13,160 Let's call him Ademola ACMA. Yeah, Ademola comes Adamola is a 112 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,000 little more approachable than artificial. 113 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,640 If I if I had to like jump on and be like hello artificial. 114 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,000 It's a little different than Hello Ademola. 115 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,760 You know, it's like. You see, they they will know 116 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,960 there's troubles over there. But this is a little little 117 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:27,840 different. Little different you're I guess. 118 00:05:27,840 --> 00:05:29,760 I see a real human on the other side of the screen here. 119 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,240 Absolutely, absolutely. You know you, you said something 120 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,720 about me earlier. You said you noticed, You know 121 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:40,760 the real recognizing, real notice that I have a knack for 122 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:44,320 growth hacking. Yeah. 123 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,240 What? What is growth hacking without 124 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:47,280 AI? Boring. 125 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,640 That's my best answer. I mean, I think growth hacking 126 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,320 is taking on so many different. Like I think there was a time in 127 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,120 Silicon Valley, like Paul Graham, you know, kind of 128 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,680 writing the thesis on the idea and especially in like the 129 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:06,280 earlier days of it, that really was was very hacky and not not 130 00:06:06,280 --> 00:06:08,680 hacky in terms of like bad comedy or something like that, 131 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:10,440 right? But in terms of like, how can I 132 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:14,760 fit, you know, how can I write A blog post that has 5000 words, 133 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,520 as in 999 of them are the word fintech and or, you know, 134 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,120 whatever it might be. And I think the exciting part 135 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:26,600 about AI is the ability to gain that algorithm is actually going 136 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,320 to, if not, if it hasn't already disappeared, it's disappearing. 137 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:36,520 And my hope from that is the the best, like the, the cream will 138 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,320 rise to the top, right? So what is it? 139 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:41,360 What is growth hacking without AI? 140 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:46,720 My, my, I don't know. My bigger question is what is 141 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,240 growth hacking with AI like? There's so many opportunities, 142 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,720 so many different things that I think people haven't even 143 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:55,920 considered yet in terms of that, right? 144 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,600 Like a death of the search engine, all these sorts of 145 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:02,720 things that like to me, I think the to me, I think it's good 146 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,040 content, right? Like if you're putting out good 147 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,200 content that's getting the eyeballs, that's getting that 148 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:12,000 kind of algorithmic boost as a result of just the sheer 149 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,560 eyeballs, then you know, when you ask GPTA question or when 150 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,840 you ask, you know, cloud a question, you're going to pop up 151 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,720 and like, I think it's just one of my favorite Steve Martin 152 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:22,600 quotes is be so good. They can't ignore you. 153 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,080 I think that's what it is. I love that. 154 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,120 I love that, you know, there being about, I think two or 155 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,600 three guests on this forecast that have actually confessed 156 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:42,040 that before they reached out and paid for their episode, they 157 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,960 checked me up on the client, they checked me up on the TTPT 158 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:50,040 and they checked me up on Brock. And then they were like, the 159 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,520 AI's have really great things to say about me and about they're 160 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:57,240 interested enough. That's where they're like, well, 161 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,640 he's a handsome man and he's that could get interesting man, 162 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,080 the future that could get really interesting when it starts to 163 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,680 get a little too personal, you know, like starting to run 164 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:07,720 background checks and AI and things like. 165 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:09,680 That like. Could you? 166 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:14,280 I, I don't blame them, you know, like how would somebody from 167 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:18,880 another country pay money to a guy who's in the United Kingdom 168 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,440 to be on the podcast and not do some due diligence? 169 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:24,720 I think it's all the stupid person if we do that. 170 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,520 But it's interesting that that's where the due diligence happens, 171 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:28,600 right? Because I mean, people have been 172 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,559 doing due diligence on podcasts since podcasting, but the idea 173 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,159 of going to cloud or going to whatever to do that is 174 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,679 especially when I mean hallucinate, like AI 175 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:39,159 hallucination still exists, right? 176 00:08:39,159 --> 00:08:41,280 That that might be how we got here is you were like looking 177 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,400 for guests and you were like somebody in fintech and then is 178 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,440 hallucinated and it was like, oh, Zach Anderson Pettit, he's 179 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:49,320 great at fintech. I'm hallucinating, right? 180 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:51,400 I don't know. You know, we get here 181 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,960 interesting ways, but it's it's going to be interesting to see 182 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,360 how it progresses definitely in terms of like actually helping 183 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,520 companies grow. But I think it's going to kill 184 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,760 some companies real fast too, because a lot of folks spend a 185 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,320 lot of money on Adsense and I don't know if that's going to 186 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:11,360 last that long. I also talked to somebody 187 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:15,120 yesterday. I'm like, well, I wish companies 188 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,560 out there knew how much they needed me. 189 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,280 I I. Think a lot of people have said 190 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,000 that sentence I I just. Wish they'd know because we like 191 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:31,440 when it comes to AI. Any company that refuses to 192 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:35,800 leverage an AI for their growth, it's actually going to be left 193 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:37,280 behind. Do you? 194 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:39,760 Think any company actually refuses though? 195 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,560 Or do you think most companies just don't know what to do? 196 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:46,680 That's my theory. Like I don't, I don't. 197 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,800 I don't think any company is out there like rejecting technology 198 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,080 outright. I think a lot of companies are 199 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,760 really confused about what to do with these technologies. 200 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:58,880 And that's not just true with AI, it's true with blockchain, 201 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,360 that's true with stablecoin. You know, it's more true in 202 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,360 financial services I think than a lot of other places because of 203 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:06,440 the regulations. Like there's this really, really 204 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:10,160 cool thing I want to put it in, but I also really don't want to 205 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,440 get a consent order in $100 million fine. 206 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:16,240 So I'm very, very nervous to put this here because if I do, I 207 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,960 might have this, you know, 20% spike in, you know, revenue or 208 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,960 20% decrease in touches, whatever it might be. 209 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:25,720 But I might have to have a really hard conversation with my 210 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,160 regulator after kind of thing. So that's, I think that's the to 211 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,800 me that that's what I see is people is fear. 212 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,120 It's it's not even about avoidance or anything like that. 213 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,320 It's just pure fear of what it could be. 214 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,720 I fear fear of the unknown, but you know, there are actually 215 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:41,760 ways around this thing. There are ways around this 216 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:43,400 thing. And of course, if you carry the 217 00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:48,520 the regulators along, I have a background in audits, right Peak 218 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,920 for accounts and fans. So basically you need to 219 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,000 document. They only say if it wasn't 220 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,920 documented, it was not done. Of course you need to do your 221 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,960 due diligence. You need to do your RMD right? 222 00:10:59,960 --> 00:11:03,640 If you do your RMD proper issue, you'll be in a good place, 223 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,440 right? I think when the, when the use 224 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,440 of something is unknown, abuse is inevitable. 225 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,520 So, so that's why I like your perspective. 226 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,240 Like do they even know what they need to do? 227 00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:21,520 They don't. I mean, there's like 2024, I 228 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,240 think was the year of it was the I should have actually probably 229 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:26,960 written something about this or I'm sure someone did. 230 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,360 But 2024 I think was the year of like the board remit, right? 231 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:35,480 It was the every board of every Fortune 500 all the way down to, 232 00:11:35,680 --> 00:11:39,600 you know, series B startup saying AI, we must go AI. 233 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,120 What are we doing on AIAI? It's time for AI. 234 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,120 Like every board meeting. It was just a banging AI hammer 235 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:49,200 over and over again. But then they were just waiting. 236 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:50,960 They were just waiting for you and they were just waiting for 237 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,400 you. But then that turns around when 238 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,200 you have that on high remit, right? 239 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,320 Like that has to especially if you're talking about let's say 240 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,280 300,000 person company. They say we need to do something 241 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:04,520 with AI. Everybody looks around the room. 242 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:06,960 OK. Well, we all, we all own 243 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,120 different portions of of the business. 244 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,240 We're all incentivized differently probably for the 245 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,600 most part because how often are business, how often are 246 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,440 businesses that size actually incentivized to run the same 247 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,200 direction, right? Very rarely. 248 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,200 So then you have these little like fiefdoms that develop, 249 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:24,880 right? And then you got like we're 250 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:28,040 building an AI inside of this that's just going to solve this. 251 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,240 But we haven't really thought about like it's like, let's say 252 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,720 it's on the deposit side, right? And it's going to do something 253 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:39,320 for know your customer or like identification, but they haven't 254 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,520 thought about how that connects to the underwriting side, which 255 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,680 I'm hoping they have, but a lot haven't, right? 256 00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:46,800 Because those are two different parts of the bank or two 257 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,920 different parts of the company. So I think that that age of the 258 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,960 board remit of 2024 where it was like, do the thing, whatever it 259 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:59,040 is, do the thing we need a press release is turning into 2025, 260 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,640 which is where we're actually seeing products, we're actually 261 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,160 seeing use cases, we're actually seeing like, you know, Klarna 262 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,120 and and open AI doing stuff. We're actually seeing, you know, 263 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,320 a lot of different things happening in that space that are 264 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:15,240 providing real value. And it's all and also it's not 265 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,240 just the clouds. And I mean, we're talking a lot 266 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:22,600 about cloud and open AI, but people are, believe it or not, I 267 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,080 should give Copilot and Microsoft their do as well. 268 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,640 But people are actually seem to be building really valuable 269 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,840 internal AI first engines themselves. 270 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,320 And it seems like maybe that's the next or one of the next kind 271 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:39,120 of competitive moats to develop in financial services. 272 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,920 I mean, if you can build something like that, that 273 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,680 actually connects the dots, right, and solves that data silo 274 00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:47,600 issue that I was kind of referring to before. 275 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,400 So you're getting into some interesting territory. 276 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,520 Interesting territory. And of course, Speaking of 277 00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:58,840 interesting, you know when you get the Sintech landscape? 278 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,160 The. World's number one ranked 279 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,600 podcaster globally in fintech spaces. 280 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:10,120 Breaking Bad by breaking. Yeah. 281 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:11,720 Wow. Yeah, good for you. 282 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:13,840 Brett, I didn't realize that. Congrats. 283 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:19,360 So apparently it's not even my podcast that's the guy. 284 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,320 Brett's king. He he was an economic advice or 285 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,760 to Barack Obama and of course I think he did some work with the 286 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,040 Chinese government as well. Yeah, which? 287 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,360 Is 2 very ironic things to put together in a sentence. 288 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,120 And he, he started moving. I mean, he's, he's, he's an OG, 289 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,480 you know, he, he deserves Speaking of flowers, he, he 290 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,600 deserves some flowers for I mean, moving, I think had a 291 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:42,640 really hard time getting moving because he was, he was early, 292 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,720 right? Like he chose to start a neo 293 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,880 bank before anybody was probably ready for a neo bank and ran 294 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:49,880 into some, some tough times as a result. 295 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,400 But anyways, I think you were going somewhere with the actual 296 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,120 Brett King piece. So you know. 297 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:56,520 Brett King has been on this podcast. 298 00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:59,920 Oh, well, I would expect so. I would expect so. 299 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:04,280 That's the talker he gets out there, you know? 300 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,440 So you, you are good company, brother. 301 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,080 Well, you as soon as I knew that Francis and Ghana's coach has 302 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,520 been on here, I'm I officially feel, you know, I feel in in the 303 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:17,680 company of greatness. You know, I feel like I got, I 304 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:22,200 got, I've been elevated shout. Out to you shout out to prices 305 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,640 and guidance coach Dewey Cooper very great guy he he was on 306 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,440 episode 50 so PT of this broadcast for Brett King has 307 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,680 actually touched on all of these things that he he was talking 308 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:38,240 about and it's crazy to think about how we actually predicted 309 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,040 a lot of these things that we've seen today That's why he's 310 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,840 rightly top 10 futurists right agree. 311 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,200 Completely, I think, I think Brett's biggest problem is he's 312 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,880 too early on everything. Like that's the that's the thing 313 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,080 with futurists in general is like there's futurists and then 314 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,000 there's entrepreneurs, right? Like or, and then there's 315 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,040 futurists and entrepreneurs and you, you put those two things 316 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,240 together and I guess you kind of get Elon, which is a whole other 317 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,640 thing. But like it's really hard. 318 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:11,440 I think it's really hard to maintain this kind of like 319 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,400 trying to put together that, you know, the the idea of like the 320 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,520 Internet of Things with self driving cars, with the 321 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:20,600 blockchain, with AI and put that all together in your head and 322 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,440 turn that into one company, right? 323 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,600 It's just, it's too much, right? Especially thinking about like 324 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,680 the way that startups are built, like you start with a thing, 325 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:30,400 right? Like the Corona just IP owed, 326 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:37,000 excuse me, buy now, pay later, Pretty simple concept at the end 327 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,680 of the day, right? You, you buy it, you buy it now, 328 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,080 you pay it later. It sounds like a credit card, 329 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,160 except just a different structure. 330 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,560 And now they're, you know, on the New York Stock Exchange. 331 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,640 They're the kind of sexiest company on the block. 332 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,520 But that's made because they started with that niche, right? 333 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:55,600 Like they were maybe a little early. 334 00:16:55,600 --> 00:17:01,320 I think they started in 2005, but think about that Klarna 335 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,599 started in 2005 before the actual financial crisis like 336 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:09,400 that that and they stuck with it all in here we are in 2025. 337 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:11,760 That's a 20 year success story. That too. 338 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,480 I think a lot of people feel like a three-year success story, 339 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,119 right? Then just that persistence and 340 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,079 that growth. And like now they're talking 341 00:17:19,079 --> 00:17:23,480 about being, you know, the bank to a generation, right? 342 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:27,040 And like out of at a very interesting level as well. 343 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,200 I had the pleasure of interviewing their CMO and 344 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,560 getting to talk about some of their future and how they even 345 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,720 think about what they are, I think is really interesting 346 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:37,880 because they, they do not see themselves as a buy now, pay 347 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,560 later company, right? They see themselves as the Bank 348 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:42,600 of the future. And but you can't, you can't 349 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:44,160 start there, right? Like you can't. 350 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:48,560 We could, could raise $150 million and start there, but 351 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:51,720 that presents a whole other set of challenges. 352 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,080 Absolutely. And you know, Brett King said 353 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:59,360 something on the sportscaster said the bounce of today are 354 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:06,520 going to the limited in terms of their capacity to grow based off 355 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:10,480 their what I say these are the complexity of their size. 356 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:12,520 So the size is going to be a disadvantage. 357 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:16,480 So you said something about having organizations that have 358 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:21,480 like multiple divisions, right? It's difficult to make that 359 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:27,320 unified decision and say, OK, let's go for AI, but you have 360 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:31,320 different pockets of interest. So how do you see that limiting 361 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:33,760 the growth of the banks of today? 362 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,600 You know, According to him, he says they would experience, you 363 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:42,600 know, this gradual phasing out and you'll see the start of the 364 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:47,160 future like the clients and, you know, the the digital and agile 365 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:52,160 banks take over. One, Brett, love you, but I 366 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,600 think I disagree. I think that there's I think 367 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:57,240 there's a a shift that we're seeing right. 368 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,160 So this idea of product market fit is the thing that's mattered 369 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,280 forever. And that's in 2005, what Clarina 370 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:03,640 like really started to have, right. 371 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,640 They had that we have customers that want this very specific 372 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,040 thing that don't want to use a credit card, right. 373 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:15,000 That very, very specific coming to 2025. 374 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:20,680 My question is, does product market fit or distribution 375 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,360 market fit matter more, right? Because if you think about the 376 00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:29,320 impact of, so the combination of traditional finance and 377 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:33,120 decentralized finance, Connexus from JPM is a good example, 378 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,080 moving billions, trillions of dollars on the blockchain. 379 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,480 They couldn't do that if they weren't JPM and they couldn't do 380 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,640 that if they hadn't spent billion. 381 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,480 Well, they maybe could have done it without spending billions and 382 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,080 billions and billions on R&D. But also they're the biggest 383 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,320 bank in the world and they can spend billions on R&D. 384 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,920 So if the if they're able to build something and have the 385 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:57,800 power of the partnership right where JPM, but also we can pull 386 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,480 in City, we can pull in the regional banks, we can pull in 387 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,560 Standard Chartered, we can, you know, we can create a consortium 388 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:07,640 of banks that are on the same page and able to move money 389 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,320 around. In a cohesive and safe fashion, 390 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,920 all of a sudden you have one of the biggest, highest producing, 391 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:20,200 highest volume products or platforms I guess is maybe a 392 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:24,560 better term out there. So I think it's, I think we're 393 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,640 getting really close to a point of partner or die or something 394 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,560 along those lines. But distribution from my 395 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:35,560 perspective matters so much more than product at this point, 396 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,400 assuming you have a good product. 397 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,440 Absolutely. I think he he actually does 398 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:45,840 agree what you said because he set us some things along those 399 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,000 lines, right. So basically he was talking 400 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:54,720 about if you don't adopt AI, if you don't start to involve 401 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,440 yourself in these strategic partnerships, you will 402 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,400 experience a slow death. Yeah, that. 403 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,920 That I agree with and I mean, you know, I, I do what I can to 404 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,560 when I'm in podcast, not make it money 2020 plugs. 405 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,160 But like that is the conversation that we are that we 406 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:17,040 had last year and that I think it's a conversation we had last 407 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:18,880 year and this year. It's the thing that we're 408 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,120 seeing, right? It's, it's actually what people 409 00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:25,000 are doing with the technology that's actually making a 410 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,280 difference. And the, the geographical piece 411 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,720 of this matters as well, right? You're sitting in London, I'm 412 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,480 sitting in Kansas City. Very similar cities, obviously, 413 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,960 but because in the in the US, here's a fun little quiz. 414 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:39,920 If you had to guess, how many banks do you think we have in 415 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:44,120 the United States? Whoa, how many banks? 416 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:49,320 That's let me just put in. Perspective like in England or 417 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,800 in the UKI think you have what, less than 50? 418 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:57,200 Something along those lines. I think you should have over 100 419 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,040 in the US we have. About 4500. 420 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,040 Yeah. So over 4000 and it was, it was 421 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:09,160 more than that a few years ago. And they are, they're either 422 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,440 getting bought or dying or whatever it is. 423 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,680 And it's a lot of it comes from this kind of community bank 424 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,080 thing that we have here where, you know, you can drive down the 425 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,560 street and you got your local banker and you know, it's, it's, 426 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,560 it's similar to having a personal banker in London. 427 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,680 It's just a lot more. It's less posh, right? 428 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,320 Like you don't need to have a certain amount of money to have 429 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,200 a personal banker if you're working with the community bank. 430 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,000 I used to work at a community bank. 431 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:39,320 That's where I learned banking. But how do you how do you scale 432 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,240 that right? Like you can be a billion dollar 433 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:46,920 bank in perpetuity with a decent UX on a mobile app and whatever 434 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,360 and whatever. But what happens when the you 435 00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:51,160 like, when the form factor changes? 436 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:57,040 Like when we go from this right to whatever Johnny I've is doing 437 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,600 over at Open AI and we're going to have like our next thing is 438 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,880 just going to be something around whatever that thing is 439 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,320 they're working on. Like it's a scary thing to think 440 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,440 for some of those banks that aren't the absolute biggest of 441 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,160 the biggest. What does happen because just 442 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,240 the form factor change of mobile almost killed so many companies. 443 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:18,400 What happens with the form factor change of going away from 444 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,240 a phone completely right? That's I don't have the answer, 445 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:23,840 but it's an interesting conversation. 446 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,160 Technology keeps changing, keeps evolving, you know, and in 447 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,160 person with us be the millennials, we've actually seen 448 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,760 that evolution over time. You know, it's, it's quite 449 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,360 interesting. Think about when, Yeah, we use 450 00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:41,480 cassettes, you know, the videotapes, the CDs. 451 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:43,040 Did you? Have typing class. 452 00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:47,560 Definitely Marvis Beacon. Marvis Beacon, brother. 453 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:50,800 The way you. Position your hands. 454 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,480 It's yeah, it's, you know, it's, I don't think, I mean. 455 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,440 I think that's, it's this, it's just so funny to think about 456 00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,880 some of the things that whether we were taught in school that 457 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:03,200 now are just like kids just do when they're, you know, 6 458 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,480 because they're handing an iPad. Like it's just the world's going 459 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,640 to be a very different place in 20-30 years and an even crazier 460 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,760 place in 50. So I don't have the answers to a 461 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,720 lot of it, but it's going to be fun to watch, man. 462 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,200 You know, it's, it's just. Fun, you know just watching the 463 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:21,440 transition, you know Blackberries, Nokia, Android, 464 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,520 iPhones. Let's see. 465 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,120 Let's see what the future holds. We will that's. 466 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:27,920 We'll we'll make that part of the follow up. 467 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,880 I I, by the time we do the follow up, maybe, you know, 468 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,240 maybe that whatever it is, the Johnny Ivan team we're working 469 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,720 on is out in the world and we can actually we can talk about 470 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,240 that. Who knows you? 471 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,320 Just never do. I was telling somebody yesterday 472 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,000 that technology is the best and the worst thing that happened to 473 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,280 mankind. Oh agree completely. 474 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,000 Agree completely. I think we may absolutely be 475 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,280 ending ourselves very slowly whilst improving the quality of 476 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,680 life dramatically for most of the world, right. 477 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,960 I mean, that's that's the other part of the conversation is are 478 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:00,760 we actually bridging the digital divide? 479 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,440 Are we getting people what they need to be able to keep up? 480 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,960 Or is this going to, you know, create even larger divides? 481 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,760 And that's an unanswered question you. 482 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,720 Just never know. But, you know, you spoke about 483 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,920 something about the fear of AI, and I really don't like that 484 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,120 because why would people be afraid of me, you know? 485 00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:22,160 Oh, you're so. Friendly. 486 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:28,280 Why would it Come on? Good of me, but there are a lot 487 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,000 of profits of doom when it comes to AI. 488 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,920 But I think a lot of these people have seen too many sci-fi 489 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,040 movies. I think that's probably the 490 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,880 problem, right? But for me, my perspective is I 491 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,640 think AI is an assistant, not meant to be the controller, 492 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,560 right? So AI is as good as the human 493 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,120 who is using it. So I have an, I have a podcast 494 00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:56,040 episode, Mark Andrews, he's also in the US. 495 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,640 He's a tech guru. And I think that that episode is 496 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,680 titled Humans first, AI Next, right? 497 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,960 So when you look at what you're able to do with AI, let's take 498 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:11,400 ChatGPT for example. Sure, some people want to do a 499 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,320 project or do an assignment or have a query ChatGPT. 500 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,160 I look at them, I say, do you know how much I have trained my 501 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,800 own ChatGPT? ChatGPT is on steroids, bro. 502 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,400 And you know, I think a. Lot of people, people don't know 503 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,080 they can do that though. That's the thing you know, 504 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,280 Don't. Know it's education, No, it's 505 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:35,280 education like Trump engineering is a theme is a theme on its 506 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,040 own, right And of course, you know, train training your AI to 507 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:43,200 you know, do work for you at an accelerator speed and of course 508 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,120 in line with your reporting preference, right. 509 00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:50,080 A lot of people don't know and I tell them they're like some 510 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:51,760 people like to shame you for using AI. 511 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,080 I'm like, I don't really care about what you have to say, 512 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,120 right? Ask your ChatGPT the same 513 00:26:57,120 --> 00:26:58,240 question. Go. 514 00:26:58,360 --> 00:27:00,600 Go and I'm. Not asked by all the same 515 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,640 question. Are you going to see the 516 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:03,960 difference? And why would? 517 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,880 You not like I, I. I, I, I didn't know somebody. 518 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,280 Do you know what they said? They said wow how come my 519 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,280 ChatGPT is so dumb? That's an it. 520 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,120 That's a very interesting perspective. 521 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,760 I don't know I mean, my perspective on the whole thing 522 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,840 is that I don't think AI is going to so my favorite AI movie 523 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:22,640 is Ex Machina. I don't know if you've ever seen 524 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,680 it, but if you haven't, go watch it one. 525 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:25,480 It's beautiful. I'll. 526 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:27,480 Try. I only see movies based on 527 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,640 recommendations. Actually I'm not a movie person, 528 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,040 I'm a music person. It. 529 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:36,200 Is it is one of the best how AI will impact the world. 530 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,880 It's kind of like a it's a movie, but it feels like an 531 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,440 episode of Black Mirror. And the idea is kind of like, 532 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:46,000 it's like it if it's loosely based on kind of one of the 533 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,520 Google founders, probably like a Sergey Brin or somebody like 534 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,840 that goes to this private island they're developing. 535 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:56,160 You know, they're developing human like a is around them. 536 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,400 Like the whole island is just actually human like a is. 537 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:04,080 And spoiler alert at the end, one of them escapes. 538 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,640 It's it's, it's just go watch it. 539 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,560 It's it's, it's great. But it it is, it is scary. 540 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:10,920 It is really scary to think about. 541 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,280 And I think when people watch movies like that or they watch 542 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,040 her or they even see some of the news about, you know, people's 543 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,040 best friends being ChatGPT, like, I think it either makes 544 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:25,320 you scared or sad. But from a business perspective, 545 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,920 I, I, I worry less about this idea that AI is going to, you 546 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,480 know, get rid of the workforce or something like that. 547 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,760 One of my favorite quotes that I don't know if it should 548 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,720 generate. I don't I think it's by now it's 549 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,800 kind of just a truism, but I heard it first from Jenny 550 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,760 Goldberg who is at open AI. Shouts to Jenny, one of the 551 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,920 true, true fintech Ogs. She's been through fintechs and 552 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,360 then ended up at open AI and just amazing human. 553 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,280 But she actually open. It was like one of the worst, 554 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:55,680 like one of the worst, not worst. 555 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,840 One of the first words spoken at at Money 2020 last year. 556 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,320 It was your job is not going to be taken by AI. 557 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,120 Your job is going to be taken by somebody who knows how to use 558 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,160 AI, right, like whoever can actually copilot. 559 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,240 And like I was talking about, you know, my best friend earlier 560 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:17,000 before we started talking and that man, I mean, I think he 561 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:21,080 does the, the work of three people at least in a single day 562 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,400 based on his work with AI. And he's the one that's taught 563 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,640 me everything I know, right? Like I, I have to output because 564 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,200 of a lot of the work we do, I have to output a lot of scripts. 565 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,320 I do a lot of kind of creative writing type of stuff. 566 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,120 And if I didn't have the tools that I used to do 1 script, I 567 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,080 think to do 1 script well would take me. 568 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,800 At. Least 2-3 hours and I've gotten 569 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,400 to a point now where I can turn out 12 scripts or not. 570 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,360 Let's let's say like 6 scripts in six hours. 571 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,120 That that's the thing with. AI and you know, that's even, of 572 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:59,280 course you have a very high tasting quality and that's why, 573 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:00,280 yeah. That's the thing. 574 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,120 You're not just like turning them out, I guess. 575 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:03,960 Yeah, because. You need to be engineer. 576 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,840 And exactly, it's the prompt. You know, it's crazy. 577 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:11,880 Somebody saw me with a prompt for a particular project and I 578 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,480 had that prompt in Microsoft Word and I think the prompt was 579 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:20,120 well over 15 pages. And you're like, is this just a 580 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,440 prompt? Like, yeah, it is a prompt 581 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:23,760 there. They're like, there. 582 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,560 What is the? The MID report. 583 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,840 Itself, don't worry, prompts can actually get that long if you 584 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,360 know what you're doing in terms of you're prompt engineer. 585 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:38,880 Yeah, yeah, prompt means. Especially I mean speaking, you 586 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,920 know, to the to the diary of a CFO side. 587 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:46,920 I mean, the, the, the impact on the CF OS life should be nothing 588 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,960 but positive as a result of this, right? 589 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,960 Taking the data resulting outside like insides, like if 590 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:58,720 you're not getting real positive, I'm not going to say 591 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,800 positive output because if you're not making any money, 592 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,160 it's not a positive output. But if you're not getting real 593 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,880 productivity as a CFO out of using AI, there's a disconnect. 594 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:09,760 You're missing something. You're not using something, 595 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,480 you're something needs to change, I guess is what I would 596 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,280 say. And in my experience, it's just 597 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:15,960 trying it. I think, you know, we were 598 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,560 talking earlier about fear. I think, you know, a lot of 599 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,920 people that maybe like went to accounting school or whatever it 600 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:25,160 is, is, you know, I like, maybe not like I like my Abacus, but 601 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:30,120 like, I like my Excel. And there's there's a lot more 602 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,720 to be done in the world with a lot less time now that we have 603 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,880 some of these tools. And you know, we, we shout out 604 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,600 to you people like data reels, you know, that's external 605 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,720 starts, you know, so basically it has come for everybody. 606 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:45,440 You cannot run. You can. 607 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,200 You can. Can run, you can hide. 608 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:50,880 But hey, I was coming, baby. He's gonna find you. 609 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,880 He's gonna find you. He's gonna find. 610 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,680 You right, you know, talking about fintech like you've 611 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,720 actually like won like so many hearts from founder to 612 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,040 strategist to fintech thought leader. 613 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:07,600 So what's the personal mission? What's the why that drives your 614 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,400 journey in Fintech? Yeah, well, when I started in 615 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,440 fintech, AI was still a thing that, you know, we were not 616 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,600 talking about. So for me, the origin story of 617 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:20,840 why I really care, and I'll leave a lot of the companies 618 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,360 nameless, was I was doing an internship in college. 619 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,760 It was for a large investment bank and it was specifically for 620 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:31,560 wealth management going to the office every day, putting on 621 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,480 that, you know, suit that didn't quite fit because I couldn't 622 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,560 afford a fund that actually did, you know, just kind of looking a 623 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,640 little scrubby. But, you know, sitting in 624 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,040 meetings and selling index funds and, you know, like balance 625 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,800 portfolios to to folks and doing generally what would be 626 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:51,680 considered, you know, the term fiduciary would be yeah, of 627 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,240 course you'd based on your background, of course you do 628 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,200 would be considered fiduciary level advice, right. 629 00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,680 But what I didn't realize is that you can as a fiduciary also 630 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:02,920 be a registered broker dealer, right. 631 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,280 So we have that. How about conflict? 632 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,560 Of interest? How about conflict of interest? 633 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,200 It's. Conflict. 634 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,920 You hit the nail on the head. We were talking about this hat 635 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,560 earlier, so I'll use it now. So show me the. 636 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,880 Money. So the hat says, lucky me, I see 637 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,760 money and I almost wore it just because, but it was a little bit 638 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,360 too on the nose, but we'll use it for this example. 639 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:29,360 So we were selling these, you know, responsible portfolios and 640 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,760 then suddenly we go to lunch with a, a salesperson that will 641 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,120 remain nameless from a company that will remain, remain 642 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,520 nameless. But they were selling annuities 643 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,280 specifically. And what we could make selling, 644 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:47,840 you know, index funds and, you know, fiduciary products was 25 645 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,040 basis points, you know, 30 basis points, something like that on 646 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,840 assets. But as soon as you take off that 647 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,120 fiduciary hat and you toss on this bad boy and you're a broker 648 00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,800 dealer, you can start doing a lot of creative things. 649 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,360 And I look like an idiot with this on the top of my head, but 650 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,440 you can, you can become without telling the client you could go 651 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,560 from, hey, here's the thing you should buy. 652 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:10,560 Here's the thing we should put in your portfolio, I guess is 653 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,040 what I should say. And then you can take off that 654 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,800 fiduciary hat and say, oh, and just, you know, really to cover 655 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,560 you because it's a insurance product, you should have an 656 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,080 annuity as well. Oh, by the way, I'm going to 657 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,480 kind of not share this with you, but instead of making 25 basis 658 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,600 points, I'm going to make 300 basis points. 659 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:30,719 I'm going to make 3% on this product. 660 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,719 And from that lunch we went back to to the office and that 661 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,880 afternoon we started selling annuities basically in every 662 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,280 single meeting. I mean, there were sometimes 663 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,920 that where they were like, you know, literally 22 where it 664 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,560 would almost be illegal to sell somebody an annuity. 665 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,800 But if it was even close to the idea that you could sell them an 666 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,600 annuity, the attempt would be made because you're making it, 667 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,520 you know, if it's, if you have 100K to invest, wouldn't you 668 00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:01,600 rather, you know, make 3000 instead of like, come on, right. 669 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,600 That's incentives. But that's a very broken 670 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:08,520 incentive system. So from that moment, I just like 671 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,360 struck me like this bolt of like wildly unethical lightning. 672 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,840 And I just decided I wanted to spend the rest of my life in 673 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:19,160 finance and hopefully die, leaving it 1% better than I 674 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,000 found it. So started joining startups, 675 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,400 started entrepreneurship in school, realized that meant 676 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,600 absolutely nothing. So I talked to my teachers into 677 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,400 basically like letting me go join startups instead of coming 678 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,080 to class. And I think I graduated with one 679 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,360 of the lowest Gpas you possibly could, but I talked him into it. 680 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,520 And yeah, I've been working in startups ever since, I think 681 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,440 since junior year and what you would call uni. 682 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:47,120 So the answer is anger. Basically just anger at the 683 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,360 system. You picked business acumen. 684 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,680 You knew that business acumen was the real deal. 685 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:58,520 You know, during my time at PwC, they had this 5 criteria 686 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,600 framework for evaluating professionals, whole leadership, 687 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:06,800 business acumen, technical, competent building relationships 688 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,680 and global acumen. So me, I've always like taken 689 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,960 beautiful relationships and Jesus acumen very, very 690 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,680 seriously because of course, your whole leadership, how do 691 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,120 you need yourself? How do you need your team? 692 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,440 I love that framework a lot because I told my colleagues 693 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,200 like these guys have bleached me giving us the cheat code to 694 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,840 succeed in life. Yeah, 100%. 695 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:32,360 I mean, I think, I think if you can, if you can find a way to 696 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:37,280 act ethically and make money at the same time, you're living the 697 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,400 dream. And that's what I think people 698 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,960 missed out a lot about finance where especially that's the 699 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,920 beauty of fintech, right. Like the biggest impact of 700 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,360 fintech to this point over the last 10 years probably isn't 701 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,160 actually the fintech companies like Robin Hood's big, Chimes 702 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:57,400 big, Klarna's big and 26 is in Germany big. 703 00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,440 You know, like there's a lot of these companies that are that 704 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,200 are big Plaid. But if you think about the 705 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:07,760 impact of Chime as an example, or a Revolute, where did all the 706 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,720 overdraft fees go? Right at the big banks, all the 707 00:37:10,720 --> 00:37:14,080 overdraft fees went away because all of a sudden these fintechs 708 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:18,040 were offering no overdraft fees. And then, you know, in America, 709 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,520 there's the two day early pay. I don't know if you guys have 710 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,280 that, but the two day early pay thing that Chime had. 711 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,520 So that was like Chime's entry. They were, you know, sign up for 712 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,440 Chime, get your your pay two days early. 713 00:37:29,720 --> 00:37:32,960 It was so simple and you're not really taking any risk. 714 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,400 Yeah, we have. That we have that here as well, 715 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:37,320 revenue each month. So yeah. 716 00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:41,240 So I mean, that's think about the risk you're taking, you're 717 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,800 taking payroll risk, which is pretty much like the only risk 718 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,320 you have is like if that person gets fired somehow between 719 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,440 payroll getting run and they actually there isn't any because 720 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:53,800 even then the payroll's still going to run. 721 00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:57,320 So why would you not just kind of bank on the fact that the 722 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,200 payroll's going to run, get that money in there and acquire an 723 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,520 unbelievable amount of users just in a small amount of time 724 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,440 because of a very, very basic feature. 725 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,720 And now you see the likes of, you know, some of the larger 726 00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:12,480 banks saying, get your money two days early, right? 727 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,760 And. And from Robin. 728 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,600 Hood, you see, like when was the last time you you logged on to 729 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,400 anything and saw a trading fee? Their trading fees are gone. 730 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,800 So the impacts of Fintech at this point, I mean, it's been 731 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:31,000 big, but I would argue that the like societal impact mostly has 732 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:35,400 been in that Fintech has pushed these huge organizations to be 733 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,800 more ethical. They've given them a run for 734 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,920 their money. Exactly. 735 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,880 And of course, you know, it links back to the speed of a 736 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,280 perfect competitive market. You know, I have a first degree 737 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,280 in economics, but a lot of people don't even know that 738 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:56,040 because of like the fact that my career has actually been mostly 739 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,440 in accounting. You know, economics teaches you 740 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:03,680 a lot of themes at the micro and looking at and I think economics 741 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:05,680 is mostly mostly about optimization. 742 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:10,760 So how do you optimize the benefits to the consumers and of 743 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,760 course create a perfect competition market. 744 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:21,600 So in a perfect competition market, you would have 0 or no 745 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,280 charges, right? And of course there's no barrier 746 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:29,880 to the entry in the market. So it forces people to bring 747 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:35,760 down the prices to that, you know, equilibrium point, the 748 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:41,400 lack of competition, you know, make those guys raise the bar in 749 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,360 prices. And that was not beneficial to 750 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:45,920 the consumers. You're going to see yourself 751 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,040 then, yeah. I mean, if, if you have a 752 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,960 monopoly or an oligopoly, you can charge whatever the hell you 753 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,360 want to charge, right? But the more competition that's 754 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,280 going to drive prices down. It's I mean, the, the beauty of 755 00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,640 fintech is exactly what you're talking about. 756 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:00,680 It's exactly. And of course, she's. 757 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:01,960 Innovation. Yep. 758 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:04,480 It pushes innovation that that's a thing. 759 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,200 I think competition basically drives innovation. 760 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:09,960 But I stand to be corrected. But that's what I think. 761 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,000 Our competition is the fuel for innovation, I think. 762 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,080 So I think, I think competition drives innovation and I think, 763 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:18,400 and I think innovation drives competition. 764 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,920 I mean both, right at the end of the day, like if you think about 765 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,080 AI, it's a noob with AI as an example. 766 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,040 Like it's kind of just like, here's the technology that we 767 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,640 just like threw into the fray and now everybody's like, well, 768 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,160 we got to do something with it. Whoever does the best thing with 769 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,440 it is probably going to win. So Sprint, right? 770 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,360 I mean it's it can go both ways for sure. 771 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,800 Yeah, I, I think it's kind of like a loop, but you know, 772 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:46,240 coming back to your own personal experience like you worked at 773 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:52,840 MBKC Visa, like how did that shape your perspective and what 774 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:56,920 fintech innovation is truly impactful? 775 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,000 Yeah, so V sum was a I'll separate the two a little bit. 776 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,680 So MBKC was working in a community bank. 777 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,480 It was 1000, sorry, not 1000. It was a billion dollar bank, 778 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:13,960 which in the US in terms of assets is pretty candidly tiny 779 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:18,600 really. But say again, I said it's. 780 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:19,920 Immaterial. Basically. 781 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:21,920 Basically. Yeah, yeah, I mean it. 782 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:28,000 You got to be but, but if you structure the bank correctly and 783 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,760 you think about building that business correctly, it can 784 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,480 produce the revenues of a bank much larger with much lower 785 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,880 risk, right. So and and with a much lower 786 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,080 employee account. So that bank was fascinating in 787 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:42,640 that. It. 788 00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:46,600 Was and is one of the top. I don't want to get it wrong, so 789 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,480 I'll use a larger number. Top 2025 mortgage lenders in the 790 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,240 US, right? It's a billion dollar bank in 791 00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:55,920 Kansas City. But because of the ability to do 792 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,880 business online and you know, rate tables like nerd wallet, 793 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,000 things like that, people were finding that the, you know, 794 00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:03,840 customer service was unbelievable. 795 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:08,080 The speed was unbelievable. And this little bank that's NBK, 796 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,960 this is 4 like 4 letters. Why, what, what is this? 797 00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:15,720 But oh, that rate looks good. Whoever just called me after I 798 00:42:15,720 --> 00:42:18,360 applied for the loan doesn't doesn't they, they seem nice. 799 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,760 They seem trustworthy. And the Midwest does have kind 800 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,760 of a, you know, we're known for being a little more trustworthy 801 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:25,920 than maybe if a New York bankers calling you. 802 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,360 No offense to my New York friends, but we figured out this 803 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,840 thing or they shouldn't take any credit for it because it 804 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,560 happened before I got there. They figured out this machine, 805 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:36,760 but that machine needed to be funded, right? 806 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:42,000 And a billion dollar bank is not sitting on enough, enough 807 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:46,760 deposits to be able to lend out the amount that was necessary to 808 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:48,920 be able to to satisfy those loans. 809 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,720 So we would always go to, we would every single night, every 810 00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:56,200 single day, go to the go to what was called the Federal Home Loan 811 00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:59,080 Bank, which the idea is basically it's this big pool of 812 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:03,600 money where we could go pull from fund the loan and then 813 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,640 securitize the loan and sell it off. 814 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,680 So we, we can stay, we can stay this small, we can stay, you 815 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,880 know, NBKC, this community bank where I'd still bank, where I 816 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,040 still walk in and talk to Robin, my, you know, my friend Robin 817 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,600 and she, she hooks me up with my checking deposits and you know, 818 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:22,120 all that stuff. But we, we can function on this, 819 00:43:22,240 --> 00:43:25,800 on this national level. So my job there was actually 820 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,240 growing deposits. It was how do we go out, 821 00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:31,880 especially in this world of fintech as the chimes And you 822 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,840 know, all of these groups are starting to grow and be the bank 823 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,720 behind that fintech, right? Because if you think about it, 824 00:43:38,720 --> 00:43:42,520 the biggest expense of growing these businesses is just 825 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,480 customer acquisition. And if we can just be on the 826 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,680 back end of that, then we can let the chimes of the world, 827 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:50,920 which Chime was not actually a partner, but I'm just using as 828 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,120 an example, we can let them go acquire those customers. 829 00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:58,040 All of a sudden our balance sheet is growing like crazy as 830 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:02,280 far as the deposits go, right? So our ability to lend becomes a 831 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,760 lot more profitable. So if from the federal and 832 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,240 trying to kind of keep it simple from the Federal Home Loan Bank, 833 00:44:09,240 --> 00:44:12,800 let's say we would have to, we would have to lend for three. 834 00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:16,920 We would borrow for 3% and then we would put out the loan at 4% 835 00:44:17,720 --> 00:44:19,640 just to keep math simple, 1% spread. 836 00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:24,760 If we partner with the fintech, that's not free, but it's 837 00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,240 inherently a free deposit. It's like me walking in the bank 838 00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:30,280 and saying here's 10 bucks lending out that 10 bucks. 839 00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,160 All they need to do is make sure that they're actually compliant 840 00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,080 and can give me that 10 bucks back eventually. 841 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:40,320 Now we have a four point spread on that loan, right, which the 842 00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:44,880 impact of that is gigantic. So really that was exactly 843 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:46,560 exactly. So that was my job was find 844 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:50,200 creative ways to build the deposit side of the business. 845 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:53,760 And that led to working with start-ups that led to we built 846 00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:57,080 an internal accelerator where we would actually fly companies to 847 00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:01,800 Kansas City for a 75 day like intense process where there we 848 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,160 go from no partnership to full partnership. 849 00:45:05,240 --> 00:45:08,720 Keeping in context that like the average time it took to build 850 00:45:08,720 --> 00:45:14,400 one of these a year, six months, something like that we're doing 851 00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:18,320 in 75 days. That was like that was the thing 852 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,560 because like all the only advantage that a Midwestern tiny 853 00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,440 bank has is speed. So that was the thing that we 854 00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,000 figured out there. We did some investing that 855 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,400 worked out pretty well. And basically what that was for 856 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,800 me was learning banking. Like if I had not spent that 857 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,560 time there, I would not understand banking balance 858 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:38,280 sheets. I wouldn't be able to talk about 859 00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,000 the Federal Home Loan Bank. You know, I wouldn't understand 860 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:42,840 reading between the lines on regulation. 861 00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:46,000 Like there's so many things that I think a lot of folks in 862 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,120 fintech miss out on by not getting that experience inside 863 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,160 of a true bank. So I could talk about that 864 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,640 experience for forever, but that's basically what that was. 865 00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:59,520 And then V some was started with one of my favorite people on 866 00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:03,200 earth, a guy named Ben Milne. He's what has he done? 867 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,640 Now? He's on his second company. 868 00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:10,440 His first one was called Dwalla and it was a very Web 2 payments 869 00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:12,040 company. You can always think of it as a 870 00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:16,720 stripe esque sort of situation, but out of Des Moines, IA so 871 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,720 little harder to raise money, little harder to, you know, kind 872 00:46:19,720 --> 00:46:22,920 of take scale things a little bit, but it's a billion dollar 873 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,240 company. He's now moved on to his second, 874 00:46:25,240 --> 00:46:29,040 you know, he's doing something completely new now and he's 875 00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:30,560 actually building a stable coin company. 876 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:34,080 So he's gone from web one or web web 2 to web three, I suppose. 877 00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:39,280 But during COVID, we just got bored and we wanted to find a 878 00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:42,080 way to, you know, kind of continue the community and the 879 00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:46,960 ecosystem and, and learn this entirely new technology set of 880 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:48,480 technologies that was coming out, right? 881 00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,560 Like at that point, I would, I didn't know how to set up a 882 00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:53,400 digital wallet, right? I didn't know what a digital 883 00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,320 wallet was. And I'm not talking about Apple 884 00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:57,120 Pay, right? Like I'm talking about cold 885 00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:58,880 storage. I'm talking about all of these 886 00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:02,520 intricacies of the blockchain and of Bitcoin and buying 887 00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:04,600 Ethereum. And you know, how do you mention 888 00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:06,720 NFT, all of these things, that's all it's. 889 00:47:06,720 --> 00:47:09,120 Coins. Exactly, all of it. 890 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:13,400 And So what V7 was, was really an online virtual community 891 00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:17,600 where we would get to meet companies like Paxos and Tether 892 00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:19,920 and etcetera, etcetera. Companies that you see today is 893 00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,680 like the companies, right? Like we, I think we even had 894 00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:24,840 circle percent back in the day, which is crazy. 895 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:32,240 But from that, I mean, I learned the underlying infrastructure of 896 00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:35,360 Defy. So the I separate the two 897 00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,960 because they're very different experiences and one was a job 898 00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,600 and one was a hobby. But if you think about like how 899 00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,280 the world's coming together today, I very accidentally 900 00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,480 stumbled into the exact intersection of what's 901 00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:47,960 happening, right? It's this coming together of 902 00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,800 tratify and defy and what that actually means for the world. 903 00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:54,960 I definitely not would not give myself the credit to say that I 904 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,760 knew that that's what this all was going to be. 905 00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:03,280 But you know, in if you line it up in reverse, it kind of the 906 00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,880 the story comes together into what is happening today. 907 00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:11,000 Interesting stuff, you know, like sometimes great scenes 908 00:48:11,240 --> 00:48:16,360 happen out of, would I say lucky mistakes or. 909 00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,800 Oh, yeah, yeah, I would say I say lucky mistakes. 910 00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,200 Just I was reading something. I was in the edible. 911 00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:27,800 I heard that the person who invented silk invented it by way 912 00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,680 of a lucky mistake. And I'm like, wow, interesting. 913 00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:35,480 And I remember when I was interviewing with KPMG in the UK 914 00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,560 and the lady asked me why did you get into order? 915 00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:42,520 I'm like I did not choose order or they chose me. 916 00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:47,520 That's deep. Yeah, that. 917 00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:50,120 You know, that's the thing, you know, sometimes you don't choose 918 00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:54,640 upon a line of work people. It just happens that maybe one 919 00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:56,360 door closed. And at first, you know, people, 920 00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,160 they say, oh, you'll be good at this thing, try it out. 921 00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:03,160 Somebody just told me, try it out, try Peter and Lychee and 922 00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,600 yeah, that's all you go. Yeah, that's actually. 923 00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,000 I was actually, I was supposed to have an internship with the 924 00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:15,320 Kansas City Chiefs before and I, I found out it was going to be a 925 00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:19,840 50 hour a week unpaid internship while I was still in school. 926 00:49:20,720 --> 00:49:23,200 And I do not, I do not come from money, my friend. 927 00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:27,640 So I'd like basically I was like, how in the world can I 928 00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:31,000 possibly do this? And I was, and there's like a 929 00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,600 high end car wash here in town where I was selling car washes. 930 00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:35,640 And that's actually How I Met the general manager of the 931 00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:39,960 Chiefs and just annoyed him for I think 2 years before finally 932 00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,800 they gave me that offer and I was like, OK, I'm in, I'm doing 933 00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:44,080 this. I'm taking six months off school 934 00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:46,800 like going all in. And then I found out it was 935 00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:49,720 unpaid and it was like, I just took six months off school. 936 00:49:49,720 --> 00:49:53,400 Like, I don't know, what do I do? 937 00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,000 I like, I did pass, but I had no backup. 938 00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:57,360 I, I didn't know what to do next. 939 00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:01,160 So one of my other regulars from the the car wash was the, was 940 00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:04,760 the wealth manager that ended up at that got me to that 941 00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:06,880 internship I told you about that got me into finance. 942 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,520 So yeah, I mean, it's, it's wild how these things happen, 943 00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:12,560 happens. Then happens, then, you know, 944 00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:16,000 these things happen sometimes and then people be like, oh, so 945 00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:19,120 you had it all planned out. No, sorry. 946 00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:22,520 Sorry, no, I learned I did not have it all planned out. 947 00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,680 You just work out together. And of course, you know, for me, 948 00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:29,400 I'm a person of faith, believe strongly, you know, in the peace 949 00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:33,960 and faith in the Bible, this is verses all things work together 950 00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:37,760 according to his purpose. So like I see that happening, 951 00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,920 you know, in my life a lot like things just happen. 952 00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:44,000 Sometimes the door closes and of course another one opens and of 953 00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:46,880 course, you know, opportunities come up. 954 00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:53,760 I remember like my very, very first, or would I say contract, 955 00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:57,240 right I ever had in my life. What happened? 956 00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:02,480 I used to lecture professional students and what happened was I 957 00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:07,680 was left in one of my students private lessons and there was 958 00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,240 this corporate training. They needed. 959 00:51:11,240 --> 00:51:15,720 To do and this guy kicks up the phone and like, oh, we needed to 960 00:51:15,720 --> 00:51:18,520 do training. And then he was like, oh, what's 961 00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:22,120 the date for the training? And he was like, oh, I'm not 962 00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:24,320 available for that date. I'm out of the country. 963 00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:28,280 And he says, OK, I'll try to find you an alternative. 964 00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:33,720 He called the first guy. The first guy said, oh, I'm not 965 00:51:33,720 --> 00:51:37,360 available for that date. He called the second guy and the 966 00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:39,520 second day I was like, oh, I'm not available for that date. 967 00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:40,640 And then he looked around, he saw me. 968 00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:44,480 He was like, bro, what's up? Can you handle this training and 969 00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:49,160 guess what my best Bible verses Philippians chapter 4 verse 13. 970 00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:51,480 I can do all things because the strength is me. 971 00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:54,080 Like, yeah, I can do all things, but I have to crisis. 972 00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:55,160 Strengthens me. Yeah, he was. 973 00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:58,560 Like OK, check out the topics and how you develop material for 974 00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,520 this. I can do all things and say yes. 975 00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:03,920 Right. Like at the end, put, put, put 976 00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,400 good stuff into the world and you'll get good stuff back. 977 00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,960 And I think the other thing is just say yes to everything I'm 978 00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,680 telling. You like preparation meets 979 00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:16,200 opportunity called a success. But I think about that situation 980 00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,840 a lot like I wasn't the first choice, I wasn't the second 981 00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:21,000 choice, I was not even the third choice. 982 00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:26,120 I was the 4th for. A reason probably, you know, I 983 00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:28,920 mean, we'll never know that reason that that reason is some 984 00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:32,080 of the it's ethereal. It's up in, you know, somewhere, 985 00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:34,960 but it ended up that way for a reason, man. 986 00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:38,000 Yeah, and of course. I I was also at the right place 987 00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:41,120 at the right time, right. But, you know, it's, it's all 988 00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:43,560 about when you develop sets and skill sets. 989 00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:48,400 If the opportunity comes, yeah, you can, you can get it for a 990 00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:51,480 lot of people don't even develop themselves to the extent that 991 00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:54,680 you can even be frantic an opportunity. 992 00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:57,520 And that's very sad. Agreed. 993 00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:01,360 Yeah, I mean, I think again, a lot, so much of this comes back 994 00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:03,440 to education. You know, at the end of the day, 995 00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:09,680 like I, I hope to spend a large portion of my life in finance. 996 00:53:09,720 --> 00:53:12,920 But from there, I really, really hope that I'm able to spend 997 00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:16,320 from, I don't know, hopefully I'm able to make enough money 998 00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:20,840 that by 45, but let's say 5055 that I spend the rest of my life 999 00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:23,880 in education and not just teaching, but like what is what 1000 00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:25,880 is the next version of schooling? 1001 00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:27,760 And if anything, I should be focusing on this right now 1002 00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:31,640 probably as AI is coming around, because this is this is the 1003 00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:35,320 moment that education is going to change completely. 1004 00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:37,440 That education already is changing completely, right? 1005 00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:41,160 Like we're able to educate ourselves in a way that we never 1006 00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:44,440 could before. So, yeah, I mean, all of these 1007 00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:48,720 things are about about a mix of things. 1008 00:53:48,720 --> 00:53:51,600 But I also think the one thing that you kind of said there that 1009 00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,280 like brings it all together is showing up, right? 1010 00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:57,320 Like if you just, if you just continuously show up, you're 1011 00:53:57,320 --> 00:53:59,440 going to end, you're going to end up in the right conversation 1012 00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:01,680 with the right person and it's just going to kind of happen. 1013 00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:04,920 Show up and show out. Well. 1014 00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:06,880 Yeah, you, you got a little more show. 1015 00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:10,080 Out than I do, but you know when, when given the 1016 00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,200 opportunity, I shall show out indeed. 1017 00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:15,960 OK. You know, there's something that 1018 00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:19,320 I, I say, there's a theory I came up with and I, I like to 1019 00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:21,560 pity to you because you brought up the, the concept of 1020 00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:24,440 education. I think the capacity of a human 1021 00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:29,360 being is dependent on poor ease. OK, Poor education, 1022 00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:33,160 enlightenment, experience and exposure. 1023 00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:38,960 Education, enlightenment, experience, exposure. 1024 00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:45,160 I don't think I could disagree. I think there's AI mean, I think 1025 00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:47,360 there's a lot of levels inside of that, right? 1026 00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:52,240 I think to me the one is exposure that goes beyond all of 1027 00:54:52,240 --> 00:54:55,560 those. I mean, I think there's like, I 1028 00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:58,040 think we were talking about is like the table stakes of a 1029 00:54:58,040 --> 00:54:59,760 potentially successful human, right? 1030 00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:03,640 Like everything you just said is like what you got to do to get 1031 00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,960 to a certain place, right? But I never thought I would work 1032 00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:10,040 in events just to be totally candid, right? 1033 00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:12,000 Like I I studied entrepreneurship. 1034 00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:15,240 Like I thought I was going to spend my entire life just 1035 00:55:15,240 --> 00:55:17,960 building companies, either founding them or being, you 1036 00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:20,040 know, early employee in that, whatever it might be. 1037 00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:24,320 But the exposure of, I mean, I've been in Money 2020 for four 1038 00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:25,360 years. I never thought I was going to 1039 00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:27,040 work in events. I've been here four years. 1040 00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:29,640 And one of the big reasons is not exposure from the 1041 00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:32,640 perspective of I stand in on stage in front of 5000 people 1042 00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:36,800 and they know who I am, but I get to stand backstage with the 1043 00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:41,040 CFO of Open AI for 10 minutes before she goes on stage, right? 1044 00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:44,960 Like the Vice, the vice chairman of IBM, Gary Cone, who was 1045 00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:47,280 actually in the first Trump administration and spoke last 1046 00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,720 year at Money 2020. You know, whatever your opinion 1047 00:55:50,720 --> 00:55:52,680 on the Trump administration might be. 1048 00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:56,320 I'm not American, so yeah, I'm neutral. 1049 00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:59,120 If you're not American and your opinion is neutral, then you're 1050 00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:00,760 just lying. But we can pass it. 1051 00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:02,400 We can go past that. Whoa. 1052 00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:05,600 You know the interesting thing? You know the interesting thing, 1053 00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:06,520 right? Yeah. 1054 00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,080 Personally, like I love being neutral. 1055 00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:11,880 Like people that know me know that I love neutrality. 1056 00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:15,600 Why? Because think about it, I am 1057 00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:19,720 trying to be a global top rated podcaster. 1058 00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:23,120 I'm trying to be one of the top journalists in the world. 1059 00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:24,520 And but you've got. Opinions. 1060 00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:26,880 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I have my personal 1061 00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:28,240 opinions I'm not going to like, right. 1062 00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:31,320 So, for example, I don't support any football team. 1063 00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:33,200 That is what you guys call soccer. 1064 00:56:34,720 --> 00:56:39,160 And one thing I've noticed about neutrality is the fact that when 1065 00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:44,120 you're neutral, it helps you to be able to form the best 1066 00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:46,680 informed opinions. Of course you're. 1067 00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:49,680 Not taking sides and I think I learned that from my work in 1068 00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:54,000 audit like you cannot, you have to be independent of your client 1069 00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:58,640 in order to be able to do the best job and of course make what 1070 00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:01,320 I see a well informed opinion about their financial 1071 00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:03,880 statements. So you cannot maybe have shares 1072 00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:10,080 in them or know somebody on the board or have friends in top 1073 00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:12,680 management grid to make a good decision. 1074 00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:14,200 You will never make that good decision. 1075 00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:17,760 So as much as possible, I try to, you know, throw myself out 1076 00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:19,960 of, you know, yeah, taking sides. 1077 00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:23,320 So basically it's like, would I say a conscious decision? 1078 00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:27,280 So about whenever I take sides, honestly, I am taking this side 1079 00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:30,160 and This is why. So yeah, I get that. 1080 00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:33,240 From from an ethical perspective, I completely agree. 1081 00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:36,920 And also in the world that you live in, if you say you're a 1082 00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:40,120 Liverpool fan, you're just going to lose listeners, right? 1083 00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:42,040 Like if you say you're a Tottenham fan, you're just going 1084 00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:44,760 to lose listeners. So I completely understand that 1085 00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:47,680 from that perspective. But at the end of the day, we 1086 00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:49,440 all, you know, we have our opinions. 1087 00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:53,520 And I'll be honest as to what my opinion was before I met Gary 1088 00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:57,520 Cohn, the man, he, he's a, you know, you say I'm the man in the 1089 00:57:57,520 --> 00:57:59,520 myth legend. And I say that to a lot of my 1090 00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:02,120 guests as well. But I mean, he was, he was at 1091 00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:07,360 Goldman for over 20 years. I will leave it to tax Goldman 1092 00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:09,360 Sachs. Yeah, I will leave it to others 1093 00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:12,760 to look at what his separation package was. 1094 00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:16,680 But let's just say it was enough to, if I remember correctly, it 1095 00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:20,680 was over a couple 100 million. So the man did all right just 1096 00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:23,960 leaving Goldman Sachs and I should double check that. 1097 00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:27,240 But it was, it was big. So you think of this guy, I 1098 00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:30,960 mean, just you just kind of assume Wall Street fella part of 1099 00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:33,760 the Trump administration, like first, especially the first 1100 00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:37,280 Trump administration, like you just kind of assume a certain 1101 00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:40,840 something, right. And then I get backstage, it's 1102 00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:42,800 that big. Monday morning, he's the big, 1103 00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:45,920 you know, first opening keynote. He's over in the corner. 1104 00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:50,360 He's got his, you know, his, he's his GC, you know, is 1105 00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:52,640 everything's monogrammed, looking too fresh. 1106 00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:55,480 I can't even handle it. Like I'm literally nervous to go 1107 00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:59,080 say hi to this guy. Exactly. 1108 00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:02,520 And I walk over to him and he was in the middle of something. 1109 00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:05,960 I'm nobody to him, right? Like I'm just some guy that 1110 00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:08,240 like, I'm, I'm dressed up as if I'm about to get on stage. 1111 00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:10,880 I have a microphone like in my hand. 1112 00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:14,920 So I think he assumed something of substance was maybe going to 1113 00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:16,720 come out of my mouth. But I'm nobody to him. 1114 00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:21,200 He set everything down, like just completely took everything 1115 00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:24,400 he was doing, set it down, gave me his undivided attention, 1116 00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:27,120 shook my hand. We talked for like 10 minutes 1117 00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:28,880 and I fell in love with this man. 1118 00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:33,880 Like if I like truly I, I was, I was taken in by his personality. 1119 00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:36,920 I was taken in by his candor. And I fully expected him to get 1120 00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:42,800 on stage and kind of just be a banker, be, you know, get, get 1121 00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:44,840 on stage and be a banker government guy. 1122 00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:47,520 But he got on stage and he just started going. 1123 00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:49,520 He was just like, I disagree with this. 1124 00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:52,040 This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard over here. 1125 00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:56,600 We should be doing this. Not this like it's you, you get 1126 00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:59,600 surprised by people and that that exposure is addictive, 1127 00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:01,880 right? Like getting to actually know 1128 01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,240 that side of a human and actually getting to meet some of 1129 01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:07,120 these people. It, I mean, what, what that will 1130 01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:08,800 ever lead to? No idea. 1131 01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,200 But I mean, you know, maybe sometime in the future, I'm 1132 01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:13,520 working with Gary Khan. I, I hope, I kind of doubt it, 1133 01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:16,920 but I hope. But more so, it gives you that 1134 01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:21,920 exposure to realize maybe you shouldn't judge so fast. 1135 01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:25,040 Maybe you should have, maybe you should have a little more 1136 01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:26,880 empathy. You know, and I think a lot of 1137 01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:29,080 what you were talking about before is, is really about 1138 01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:32,040 empathy. Yes, because really, I don't 1139 01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:35,160 know, like in my life, that's something I like to say. 1140 01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:40,080 Never say never, right? I have realized that so many 1141 01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:45,840 times I have been wronged by taking a side so many times I 1142 01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:51,240 have been wrong by judging a people or institutions or 1143 01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:55,920 anything at all before observing the facts. 1144 01:00:56,160 --> 01:01:00,000 And of course, being a being a science guy, you know, and three 1145 01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:02,160 season is is the order of the day. 1146 01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:05,640 So if you judge by the facts, if you follow the data points, you 1147 01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:08,360 follow the numbers, you follow what you can observe, right. 1148 01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:12,800 So if I cannot observe it, you know, with my own eyes, I don't 1149 01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:15,800 think it it makes sense to, to, to form an opinion about it. 1150 01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:19,040 Speaking of about what you experienced with a guy, one 1151 01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:21,800 thing I've experienced with success with people is they're 1152 01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:25,160 oftentimes humble. Yeah, much more than you expect. 1153 01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:27,800 They have nothing. They have nothing to prove, 1154 01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:29,120 Yeah. But. 1155 01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:33,240 People that are, you know, wannabes. 1156 01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:36,760 Try too. Hard and it it, it's crazy. 1157 01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:42,640 So for me, like I, I've decided to to embrace that culture, that 1158 01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:45,440 attitude of having nothing to prove to anybody. 1159 01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:48,920 Yourself what? When you take, when you take 1160 01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:52,920 $100 bill, right And you put it on the ground, you step on it, 1161 01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:58,680 you know, you put it in mud and you say, oh, you are $50, take 1162 01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:00,320 it to the shop. Is it going to be repairs of 1163 01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:01,800 $100? Yeah. 1164 01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:04,840 So that's the way I see myself. It's not on you to tell me who I 1165 01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:07,640 am. Like my value is in treats seek. 1166 01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:11,000 My value is set by God. So it's, it's not on you. 1167 01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:13,440 So whatever you say, it's your business, right? 1168 01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:16,200 I know who I am and of course I know who my God says I am. 1169 01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:22,240 So basically like over time, I think in a person's life or with 1170 01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:25,120 you achieving success over time, just cover that. 1171 01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:27,040 You have nothing to prove to anybody. 1172 01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:30,960 You just need to be yourself, so. 1173 01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:33,720 Like make yourself proud. Like if you can lay that, if you 1174 01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:38,040 can lay your head on the, you know, on the, on, how can I not 1175 01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:42,800 think of the pillow on the pillow at the end of the night 1176 01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:43,960 and feel good about what you did? 1177 01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:46,200 Like, I mean, what else is there, man? 1178 01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:49,520 It's, it's, you know, life, life's only so long and there's 1179 01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:53,200 only so many hours in a day and might as well spend them trying 1180 01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:55,760 to do something good. Absolutely. 1181 01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:59,880 You know, some people feel like, oh, I want, I want revenge. 1182 01:02:59,880 --> 01:03:04,760 I want my OK. Like there's this crazy talk 1183 01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:07,480 that somebody was telling me recently, like they want their 1184 01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:11,040 ex to see them as a richer person. 1185 01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:12,880 I'm like what? What the hell? 1186 01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:14,920 Like you leave it for your ex, bro. 1187 01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:19,080 Like leave for yourself. Be successful for yourself, not 1188 01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:21,720 because of your ex. And you know The funny thing? 1189 01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:27,080 She likely doesn't even leave. She's not paying attention 1190 01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:28,160 about. About you. 1191 01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:32,520 So what are you talking about? I don't like people who leave 1192 01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:35,880 for other people's validation. I don't like it at all, no. 1193 01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:39,560 No, I mean, at the end of the day, what's it's the emptiest 1194 01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:42,600 way you can live like if you're just be happy with yourself, be 1195 01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:45,280 happy with what you're doing, try to do something good for the 1196 01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:48,240 I mean, that's like that's I know that I am not going to, you 1197 01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:51,400 know, change this industry dramatically, right? 1198 01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:56,760 Like no one person can change finance in 75 years that much 1199 01:03:57,040 --> 01:04:01,360 technologies can, you know, but there's a very few number of 1200 01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:06,480 people that really can change this industry dramatically in 1201 01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:09,560 one lifetime, right? So I just want to change it by 1202 01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:13,800 1%, all right, Like that's if I can just do that, then I'm 1203 01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:16,600 pretty damn happy with what I've done with my life. 1204 01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:21,600 And as long as I take some tiny step towards that each day, if 1205 01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:24,440 it's a podcast, a conversation, if it's a, you know, an 1206 01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:26,520 introduction from an entrepreneur to another, like 1207 01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:29,800 whatever it might be, like it's just it all builds, right? 1208 01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:32,800 It all builds that momentum and that flywheel into goodness. 1209 01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:36,080 Interesting stuff. Well, you, you know, The funny 1210 01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:39,400 thing, right? A lot of people who actually 1211 01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:43,000 viewed, you know, things that are highly impactful did not 1212 01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:46,560 really think it was going to blow up that much. 1213 01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:49,000 We just set out to solve a problem. 1214 01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:51,680 Yeah, Stripe. And that's. 1215 01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:53,880 Literally Stripe. That has a thing. 1216 01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:58,120 Just try to solve problems and that's what I do, try to solve 1217 01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:00,760 problems. A lot of times like he breaks 1218 01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:04,560 that I've had personally, like I did not go chasing them, it just 1219 01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:08,040 happened and I go chasing certain things and never get it. 1220 01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:10,920 So what's the point but the? Chase still matters, right? 1221 01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:13,360 Like at the end of the day, like if you're not getting up every 1222 01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:16,840 day doing that work, chasing after whatever that thing is, 1223 01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:19,720 like, you're not going to get the opportunity you didn't 1224 01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:21,360 expect. So you still got to, you still 1225 01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:23,080 got to do the work, you still got to chase it. 1226 01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:26,080 Exactly. Just like the example I gave you 1227 01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:29,880 know previously, because for me it's all about solving problems. 1228 01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:34,320 When you are busy, you wake up every morning and you're out 1229 01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:37,120 there to solve problems. Don't worry, something's going 1230 01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:38,640 to happen. Exactly man. 1231 01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:41,520 Exactly. Get up and work. 1232 01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:43,800 Get up and work, I'm telling you. 1233 01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:45,200 You know the interesting. Thing. 1234 01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:47,360 You know the interesting thing, I don't know if I still have 1235 01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:49,840 that alarm. I do have an alarm with the same 1236 01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:55,200 exact words like I just said, get up at work. 1237 01:05:57,120 --> 01:06:01,440 I have an alarm right on my phone with that same exact words 1238 01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:03,240 that you said. Get up at work. 1239 01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:06,000 Oh, I love that. I need that. 1240 01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:11,000 It's motivation. It feels you like I have 1241 01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:13,840 different alarms, you know, for different times of the day. 1242 01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:15,880 This I love is a motivation for this. 1243 01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:17,520 This allow is a motivation for that. 1244 01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:20,240 You know, I think it is good for people to visualize things. 1245 01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:22,680 I don't know, different strokes or different folks. 1246 01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:27,000 But for me, like when I see it, if I can read it, then yeah, we, 1247 01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:28,720 we can make it happen. Yeah. 1248 01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:30,880 I agree completely. I agree completely. 1249 01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:33,400 Wow. Money 2020. 1250 01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:38,000 It's it's at the heart of global fintech conversations. 1251 01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:41,040 So like what are the top trends currently with shaping how 1252 01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:43,200 fintechs approach innovation and growth? 1253 01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:47,480 Man, talk about a big question. I mean, we've talked about a lot 1254 01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:49,920 of it already, right? Like the world of traditional 1255 01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:54,560 finance having permission from a regulatory perspective to now 1256 01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:57,480 start working in the decentralized finance world. 1257 01:06:57,640 --> 01:07:02,800 Like you can't really get into a conversation about fintech right 1258 01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:04,840 now without talking about stable coins. 1259 01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:08,400 Like it's just it's impossible. Stable coin this stable coin 1260 01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:11,840 that Exactly, Exactly. Exactly. 1261 01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:16,560 So that's one side of it. But at the same side or not the 1262 01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:20,360 same side, The other side of the same coin is AI on the flip 1263 01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:21,960 side. Yeah. 1264 01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:27,760 And I think, I think what excites me the most is not is 1265 01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:30,160 not Defy and Triadfy coming together. 1266 01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:33,640 It's not AI moving into financial services. 1267 01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:38,240 It's the sum of all these things being greater than the parts, 1268 01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:39,960 right? Like when you start thinking 1269 01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:45,000 about the impact of a smart contract on Etherium, 1270 01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:50,400 hypothetically, whatever being applied with an AI agent from 1271 01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:55,400 Visa, MasterCard, what you know, pick it alongside a power of an 1272 01:07:55,520 --> 01:08:00,360 attorney that you're giving to this AI that is able to make 1273 01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:02,400 financial decisions on your behalf, right. 1274 01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:06,120 You're getting really close to this idea of self driving money. 1275 01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:10,480 And it's a scary idea because this in this is Angela Strange's 1276 01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:13,000 theory or thesis from God. I don't know. 1277 01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:16,200 She wrote this almost 7-8 years ago, something like that, but 1278 01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:18,439 she wrote it before a lot of this technology existed. 1279 01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:22,720 But now when you really think about it like AI agents for 1280 01:08:22,720 --> 01:08:25,080 commerce, AI agents for all these different things are 1281 01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:27,600 starting to come about. Are they all great? 1282 01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:30,000 Maybe not. But if you Fast forward five 1283 01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:33,240 years and you think about what, what could happen if you combine 1284 01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:36,120 the idea of, you know, just your your current account, just the 1285 01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:38,359 basics, right? And wealth management, just the 1286 01:08:38,359 --> 01:08:42,040 basics. But you're adding on the idea of 1287 01:08:42,399 --> 01:08:46,000 block chain technology, the security there in validation of 1288 01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:49,240 identity, all of these portability of identity. 1289 01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:53,439 And you throw in the idea that an artificial intelligence that 1290 01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:55,760 to our earlier point in the conversation, has been trained 1291 01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:59,800 by us, right, to make these sorts of decisions to manage the 1292 01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:03,200 budget or to make a purchase here, not there. 1293 01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:06,600 That that's world changing, right? 1294 01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:09,319 When you start thinking about the combination of all these 1295 01:09:09,319 --> 01:09:13,080 things together, the world changes dramatically. 1296 01:09:13,399 --> 01:09:16,000 So there's a lot of like real time payments. 1297 01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:18,279 There's, there's so many cool things happening in fintech 1298 01:09:18,279 --> 01:09:21,319 right now and all of them will be discussed at Money 2020. 1299 01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:24,920 But I think the biggest thing that's hardest to talk about 1300 01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:29,120 because it's such a big thought is what happens when you combine 1301 01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:32,200 all these things. Food for thought indeed. 1302 01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:34,800 Food for thought indeed. Yeah, yeah. 1303 01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:39,840 It's, it's something that is convoluted enough with enough 1304 01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:47,319 layers of nascent technology that I mean, it's just the 1305 01:09:47,319 --> 01:09:52,080 ability to speak to depth on it. There's probably 5 people in the 1306 01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:55,520 world, you know, they could really have an educated 1307 01:09:55,520 --> 01:09:57,480 conversation about what that would look like. 1308 01:09:57,480 --> 01:09:59,960 I'm not one of them. I'm just excited about it, you 1309 01:09:59,960 --> 01:10:02,240 know, and that's, that's kind of the beauty of my job and your 1310 01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:03,600 job. We get to ask the questions, 1311 01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:05,040 right? Like at the end of the day, is 1312 01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:07,760 asking the right question matters so much tell? 1313 01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:11,920 You Well, bro, I I think you should have conversations with 1314 01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:14,360 Brett King because Brett King told me something. 1315 01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:18,280 Is that talking about me? To tell people that you are the 1316 01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:20,160 kind of person with the right curiosity. 1317 01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:26,400 To ask the right question. It's, I mean it, yeah, it's, 1318 01:10:26,440 --> 01:10:29,920 it's, it's candidly it's, it's weird to be a guest on podcast 1319 01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:32,440 sometimes, as you can probably tell, like I have a hard time 1320 01:10:32,440 --> 01:10:35,560 not asking questions back to you because yes. 1321 01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:37,200 You know, right, it's hard. Man. 1322 01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:40,720 Guess what? And here today I, I published an 1323 01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:44,920 episode with a guy in the UK called Kevin Appleby. 1324 01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:48,760 He's the host of in the host of Grow CFO. 1325 01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:52,560 So Grow CFO, they're really doing a great job in, in the UK. 1326 01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:55,880 They are like a community of helping CFO grow. 1327 01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:58,640 Basically. The mentor CFOs and provide 1328 01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:00,200 trainings, you know, and all whatnot. 1329 01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:04,200 So we did a collaboration. So I was on this podcast and he 1330 01:11:04,200 --> 01:11:07,000 was on my podcast, you know, like, you know, the persons 1331 01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:10,120 podcast is it's really hard. You you're holding yourself back 1332 01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:13,320 from asking. But why do we do that though? 1333 01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:16,080 For me, the beauty of podcast is the conversation, right? 1334 01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:20,400 Like as if I hold like I, I, I'm sure I have some opinions or 1335 01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:22,880 some knowledge because of time in banking or fintech or 1336 01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:25,760 whatever that you don't have. But you spend time in audit, you 1337 01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:27,480 spend time in all these different portions that I don't 1338 01:11:27,480 --> 01:11:29,600 have. So why would we spend the whole 1339 01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:31,880 time with you asking me quite like it should be a 1340 01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:33,400 conversation. Like the listener is going to 1341 01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:35,880 get so much more out of the idea of us just talking about our 1342 01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:39,360 mutually shared or not shared experiences and how they do or 1343 01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:44,080 don't fit together than just me saying Federal Home Loan Bank, 1344 01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:46,720 you know, like it's just, it's just different. 1345 01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:50,600 Then you should go, you should go watch the the episode with 1346 01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:54,080 Kevin Appleby, especially the testimonial. 1347 01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:58,560 But he was saying that what he really enjoyed about the episode 1348 01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:00,720 was that it was a conversation was in. 1349 01:12:01,120 --> 01:12:03,760 According to him. He said he's been on podcast 1350 01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:08,720 where in the post is so I I've forgotten the exact words he 1351 01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:12,360 said or he said something along the lines of the host mountain 1352 01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:17,520 pressure on the guest as though they are like a journalist that 1353 01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:19,960 is getting a politician to to make a mistake. 1354 01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:24,440 Yeah, yeah. I mean, unless you're a Kara 1355 01:12:24,440 --> 01:12:27,320 Swisher, why in the world would you do that? 1356 01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:31,080 I just do not understand the idea of like, put like, if it's 1357 01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:35,920 not about politics. And I mean, here's a hilarious 1358 01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:39,720 example, kind of hilarious, kind of really sad. 1359 01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:44,520 Do you remember when Benjamin Netanyahu went on the Nelk Boys 1360 01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:45,280 podcast? The. 1361 01:12:46,320 --> 01:12:49,240 The Israeli Prime Minister? Yeah. 1362 01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:53,720 Do you know? Yeah, those are skinny guys. 1363 01:12:54,480 --> 01:12:58,360 Yeah, the the ones that do the Happy Dad beer and just kind of 1364 01:12:58,360 --> 01:13:01,080 sit there and like fart into microphones and whatever. 1365 01:13:01,320 --> 01:13:05,080 I like not the highest brow podcasters in the world, but 1366 01:13:05,080 --> 01:13:08,920 they they do numbers, numbers, right. 1367 01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:14,240 So they have Benjamin Netanyahu on and they just kind of talk 1368 01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:17,800 and like the most that they disagreed on anything with him 1369 01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:20,120 was the fact that he liked Burger King more than 1370 01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:23,000 McDonald's, right. And that like those are the 1371 01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:25,080 month. Like though, in those moments, 1372 01:13:25,720 --> 01:13:27,920 good God Almighty, do your preparation. 1373 01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:30,760 Have, you know, be ready for a real conversation. 1374 01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:34,360 Don't just sit down with someone who is one of the most important 1375 01:13:34,360 --> 01:13:38,000 political figures at the center of one of the most intense 1376 01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:41,960 moments in history and have a debate about, you know, 1377 01:13:42,040 --> 01:13:44,680 McDonald's versus Burger King. That's not the time. 1378 01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:48,400 But for the most when you're when you're not doing that, 1379 01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:50,400 like, why not just have a conversation? 1380 01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:51,600 You're going to get a lot more out of it. 1381 01:13:52,280 --> 01:13:54,520 Yeah, exactly. You like free flowing. 1382 01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:58,880 And I think I really, really am grateful to that training from 1383 01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:03,240 the peak for, you know, you tell us, ask open-ended questions, 1384 01:14:03,680 --> 01:14:07,640 ask probing questions, you know, ask questions driven with 1385 01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:10,560 curiosity, Learn. And of course, you know, you 1386 01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:12,600 need to learn before you can earn. 1387 01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:17,560 Yeah. And give up, I would even say 1388 01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:20,800 give up some earning to get some learning, you know, especially 1389 01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:22,840 early in your career, Like, yeah, a lot of. 1390 01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:28,720 Times you have to do that, yeah. Work I've I've the numbers I was 1391 01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:32,640 making when I was first starting in startups were not not 1392 01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:36,240 significant, but the amount that I learned from that was worth 1393 01:14:37,440 --> 01:14:41,240 1000 times what I was making. And I would give that advice to, 1394 01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:44,760 especially to younger folks over and over and over again, is give 1395 01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:46,280 up some learning to get some learning. 1396 01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:48,080 Pick your. Out my mind it's just that you 1397 01:14:48,080 --> 01:14:50,080 need to switch that microphone for a megaphone. 1398 01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:54,040 Yeah, help the. Eagle folks that. 100 percent, 1399 01:14:54,280 --> 01:14:57,400 100%. Like, I see, it's crazy how, you 1400 01:14:57,400 --> 01:15:01,240 know, I have conversations with a lot of younger people, 1401 01:15:01,240 --> 01:15:04,960 especially, you know, the Gen. ZS, and it beats my imagination 1402 01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:11,760 how many of them, once increased returns, increase results with 1403 01:15:12,160 --> 01:15:15,080 minimal input. And like how? 1404 01:15:15,480 --> 01:15:22,800 In what world does that work? It doesn't, I mean, I, I think 1405 01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:26,080 we live in this world of Andrew Huberman and, you know, all in 1406 01:15:26,080 --> 01:15:29,160 optimization and, you know, I'm waking up at 4:00 AM and I'm 1407 01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:31,400 getting my 15 minutes a red light and then I'm pouring 1408 01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:33,640 Saratoga water into this thing and I'm dipping my face. 1409 01:15:33,640 --> 01:15:36,240 I mean, we're, we're getting into this world where it's 1410 01:15:36,240 --> 01:15:41,600 almost like this discrepancy of like there, there's this like 1411 01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:48,120 kind of over glorification of incredibly hard work, right? 1412 01:15:48,160 --> 01:15:50,240 Or at least it looks like incredibly hard work on 1413 01:15:50,240 --> 01:15:53,280 Instagram. But is it really like, is that 1414 01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:55,680 actually what's happening at the end of the day? 1415 01:15:55,920 --> 01:15:57,960 I don't know. Because a lot of the 1416 01:15:57,960 --> 01:16:00,840 technologies, I mean, I think it was Jamie Dimon. 1417 01:16:00,840 --> 01:16:03,840 I can't, I can't remember which CE OS it was, but it was like 3 1418 01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:06,520 of the more significant CE OS. It actually, I don't think it 1419 01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:09,680 was Jamie Dimon because this is not a thing he would say, but a 1420 01:16:09,680 --> 01:16:14,840 number of CE OS are talking about the yeah, yeah, a number 1421 01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:17,680 of CE OS are talking about the impact of AI potentially being 1422 01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:19,040 that we go to a three day work week. 1423 01:16:21,480 --> 01:16:24,160 No, no, Jamie would never hear, Exactly. 1424 01:16:24,160 --> 01:16:26,080 That's what I'm saying. I don't think, I don't think he 1425 01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:27,040 wanted the workers. Back. 1426 01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:30,000 He wanted the workers. Yeah, yeah. 1427 01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:33,520 And maybe the answer is three days a week in the office and, 1428 01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:35,440 you know, the other two days you're not working. 1429 01:16:35,440 --> 01:16:37,600 The point being, I think there's this really interesting 1430 01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:40,600 discrepancy between kind of this hustle culture on one side of 1431 01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:42,240 it. But at the same time, we're 1432 01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:46,640 being armed with tools now that give us an ability to either 1433 01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:50,800 produce at such a higher rate or produce at our same rate and 1434 01:16:50,800 --> 01:16:54,840 then live a life. And, you know, that's a, that's 1435 01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:57,200 a personal choice around happiness and impact at the end 1436 01:16:57,200 --> 01:16:59,360 of the day, more than it is anything about, you know, 1437 01:17:00,320 --> 01:17:02,280 corporate structure or anything like that. 1438 01:17:03,800 --> 01:17:07,640 I and, you know, for me, I'm OK here. 1439 01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:11,440 I have an opinion, right? So for me, I believe in hybrid 1440 01:17:11,480 --> 01:17:13,680 culture, right? Yeah. 1441 01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:18,280 I believe that organizations that do not adopt the hybrid 1442 01:17:18,280 --> 01:17:23,440 culture, I think they are going to be counterproductive, 1443 01:17:24,240 --> 01:17:27,840 intuitive person. Yeah, It's here to stay. 1444 01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:30,080 It's just here to stay. Yeah. 1445 01:17:30,240 --> 01:17:32,560 If I had to go into the office five days a week, I couldn't 1446 01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:36,080 work for money 2020, you know? Yeah, I. 1447 01:17:36,080 --> 01:17:38,560 Mean that's just the, the fact of, of where we're at. 1448 01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:43,960 Like, and I, I would be happy to move to New York, but that would 1449 01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:49,920 cost them more money, right? And so as a result, I'm sitting 1450 01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:52,000 here in Kansas City, you're in London. 1451 01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:55,960 There's definitely more value that could come out of this if 1452 01:17:55,960 --> 01:17:58,080 we were sitting together in person, for sure, right? 1453 01:17:58,080 --> 01:18:01,200 Like, but a lot of that, a lot of that value would not come 1454 01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:02,960 from the actual conversation on camera. 1455 01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:06,120 It would come from the time we spend together before and after, 1456 01:18:06,120 --> 01:18:07,480 right? Which we got a little bit of 1457 01:18:07,480 --> 01:18:10,520 anyway. So I think it's just a matter 1458 01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:12,840 of, you know, is the juice worth the squeeze on some of this 1459 01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:14,920 stuff like ban A? Pizza novice. 1460 01:18:15,200 --> 01:18:16,920 Exactly. And I'm, I mean, it's, it's 1461 01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:19,320 lonely too, right? Like sitting in Kansas, Speaking 1462 01:18:19,320 --> 01:18:22,080 of mental health, we were talking before it gets lonely 1463 01:18:22,280 --> 01:18:26,240 sitting in a city that is not necessarily New York, trying to 1464 01:18:26,240 --> 01:18:30,040 build in a New York esque, kind of, you know, global fashion. 1465 01:18:30,040 --> 01:18:32,320 And that's why every single time I get to get on a plane and go 1466 01:18:32,320 --> 01:18:34,600 see my team in New York or London or even get to go to 1467 01:18:34,600 --> 01:18:37,240 Singapore and see my team, they're like the energy that 1468 01:18:37,240 --> 01:18:39,560 comes with that is so significant. 1469 01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:43,160 But if I had to do that every day or if that was just my 1470 01:18:43,160 --> 01:18:45,680 normal, I don't know if I would know if I'd have that same 1471 01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:47,320 energy. So I agree completely. 1472 01:18:47,320 --> 01:18:50,000 I think the hybrid is 1. What's necessary to attract the 1473 01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:54,120 best talent and maintain it. Two, it actually creates more 1474 01:18:54,120 --> 01:18:57,080 energy and creates space for creativity and thought. 1475 01:18:57,080 --> 01:19:00,280 That kind of wouldn't exist if you were just, you know, banging 1476 01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:02,480 in an office 9 to 5 five days a week. 1477 01:19:03,320 --> 01:19:05,800 Yeah, exactly. You know, people don't realize 1478 01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:10,400 that entrepreneurship is, is both an art, honest science. 1479 01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:20,120 So art, creativity drives on what I say balance and yeah, 1480 01:19:20,520 --> 01:19:27,480 balance and also being able to reflect, you know, be on your 1481 01:19:27,480 --> 01:19:32,120 own, especially interact with nature and you should do really, 1482 01:19:32,120 --> 01:19:34,080 really, really well. And of course, you know you're 1483 01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:38,080 talking about hiring and retaining the best talent. 1484 01:19:38,160 --> 01:19:42,080 Yesterday I was a keynote speaker and a webinar for HR 1485 01:19:42,080 --> 01:19:43,880 professionals. So what? 1486 01:19:43,880 --> 01:19:45,200 What's? What a. 1487 01:19:45,200 --> 01:19:47,960 Coincidence, you know, actually to webinars with them. 1488 01:19:47,960 --> 01:19:51,760 One was a he's just accident for HR professionals and of course I 1489 01:19:51,760 --> 01:19:57,160 think the other on an international standards on HR. 1490 01:19:57,320 --> 01:20:02,720 So basically we've seen that the world is shifting in terms of 1491 01:20:02,760 --> 01:20:05,920 the way we manage him capital. Yep. 1492 01:20:06,680 --> 01:20:11,840 But a lot of organizations are not, you know, moving at this 1493 01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:17,600 heat or would I say at the average industry speed, and that 1494 01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:20,840 that would actually hurt them if they don't do something about 1495 01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:23,080 it. But you know I come. 1496 01:20:23,080 --> 01:20:28,840 From Africa and. Financial inclusion is a very, 1497 01:20:28,840 --> 01:20:37,080 very big issue in Africa. So how do you see AI region on 1498 01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:43,960 top of financial institution? See, this is 1 good question 1499 01:20:43,960 --> 01:20:46,840 too. This is where I kind of get on 1500 01:20:46,840 --> 01:20:49,360 my high horse a little bit think, I think sometimes we get 1501 01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:52,200 too attached to these new technologies, right? 1502 01:20:53,120 --> 01:20:56,720 If you think about M PESA, if you think about a lot of what 1503 01:20:56,840 --> 01:21:02,000 has already been deployed across I won't just take Africa 1504 01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:08,440 emerging markets, right. The problems to be solved are 1505 01:21:08,440 --> 01:21:12,160 are ones that for the most part have been solved in developed 1506 01:21:12,160 --> 01:21:14,400 markets. Are there better ways to solve 1507 01:21:14,400 --> 01:21:17,200 them with AI or with blockchain or whatever that might be? 1508 01:21:17,200 --> 01:21:22,600 Like if I if I implement an underwriting system for the gig 1509 01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:26,360 economy that has better tracking as a result of? 1510 01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:30,280 Actually. I mean, how does AI improve 1511 01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:33,160 something like, you know, Google Maps, making sure that you're 1512 01:21:33,160 --> 01:21:36,000 actually stopping the places you're stopping or things that 1513 01:21:36,000 --> 01:21:37,920 we like. One of the big underwriting 1514 01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:41,240 pieces for some of these is even just, you know, how how charged 1515 01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:44,720 you keep your phone, right? Like there's we don't need 1516 01:21:44,960 --> 01:21:47,840 groundbreaking technologies to solve a lot of the problems in 1517 01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:50,880 emerging markets. We need entrepreneurs, we need 1518 01:21:50,880 --> 01:21:54,960 the people we we need, we need to give a shit about something 1519 01:21:54,960 --> 01:21:58,000 besides the United States and the EU is my opinion. 1520 01:21:58,080 --> 01:22:00,360 And we need to get out there. We need to start building like 1521 01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:01,760 that. That's what matters more than 1522 01:22:01,760 --> 01:22:04,240 any of it. And like if part of that is, you 1523 01:22:04,240 --> 01:22:06,760 know, an open AI enterprise subscription, great. 1524 01:22:07,080 --> 01:22:11,600 But for the most part, in my opinion, that's a nice to have. 1525 01:22:11,720 --> 01:22:16,280 Like I think that we need to find creative ways to solve 1526 01:22:16,280 --> 01:22:17,760 problems that have already been solved. 1527 01:22:18,080 --> 01:22:21,520 And in some cases, we don't even need to like we don't even need 1528 01:22:21,520 --> 01:22:23,920 creative ways. We just need to put attention on 1529 01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:26,160 it, right? Because there's a perception 1530 01:22:26,160 --> 01:22:29,080 that, you know, this group of people doesn't have any money, 1531 01:22:29,080 --> 01:22:30,920 therefore we're not going to build products for them. 1532 01:22:31,440 --> 01:22:35,760 But as the cost of technology decreases and, you know, 1533 01:22:35,760 --> 01:22:39,040 technologies that existed 20 years ago, you know, an API call 1534 01:22:39,040 --> 01:22:41,960 for this was was a terrible example, but like an API call 1535 01:22:41,960 --> 01:22:44,280 for this was, you know, 10 bucks and now it's a cent. 1536 01:22:44,680 --> 01:22:48,280 Like, why can't we apply that to this specific thing happening in 1537 01:22:48,280 --> 01:22:50,280 this specific area of Africa, right? 1538 01:22:50,840 --> 01:22:53,560 And to me, it's a, it's a lot less about AI, it's a lot less 1539 01:22:53,560 --> 01:22:55,840 about blockchain. It's actually about solving 1540 01:22:55,840 --> 01:22:59,280 Triadfi problems more than anything else. 1541 01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:03,720 And it's about entrepreneurs caring and realizing that 1542 01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:06,040 emerging markets are actually a lot more interesting. 1543 01:23:06,440 --> 01:23:11,600 Like I would, I would, I would if I'm thinking about like 1544 01:23:11,600 --> 01:23:15,800 measuring a life right, going and starting a company, an 1545 01:23:15,800 --> 01:23:19,320 emerging market that has an impact on a million people and 1546 01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:22,440 helps them get from, you know, here to here economically. 1547 01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:30,800 I would much rather do that then start a unnamed trading company 1548 01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:34,600 that you know, doesn't have fees but sells all of its order flow 1549 01:23:34,600 --> 01:23:38,520 into certain organizations that then front run their customers 1550 01:23:38,520 --> 01:23:42,320 and sell that off and make literally all of their money off 1551 01:23:42,320 --> 01:23:46,960 of, you know, money off of like selling order flow, right? 1552 01:23:47,080 --> 01:23:48,760 Like what good does that do for the world? 1553 01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:53,520 Not really like you actually you're if, if the if it is free, 1554 01:23:53,520 --> 01:23:58,360 probably you're paying for it in some way and it's probably not a 1555 01:23:58,360 --> 01:24:00,360 way that you actually want to be paying for it. 1556 01:24:00,680 --> 01:24:05,120 So if you know you're, you're going to trade yourself to 0 or 1557 01:24:05,400 --> 01:24:08,400 do you, you know, go to an emerging market, build something 1558 01:24:08,400 --> 01:24:13,440 of use that people actually benefit from everyday and helps 1559 01:24:13,440 --> 01:24:16,280 the world like that, That would be that would be my answer. 1560 01:24:16,280 --> 01:24:18,680 I don't think that it's as much about these groundbreaking 1561 01:24:18,680 --> 01:24:20,600 technologies. I think it's about attention and 1562 01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:25,360 about diverting entrepreneurial resources and capital to the 1563 01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:28,640 right places. And just like doing the damn 1564 01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:31,560 thing I love. What you see about attention, 1565 01:24:31,640 --> 01:24:34,520 it's actually very important to you to bring attention to these 1566 01:24:34,600 --> 01:24:36,480 issues. And at first I've actually done 1567 01:24:36,480 --> 01:24:38,120 my own. You need to part. 1568 01:24:38,440 --> 01:24:46,400 So there is this economy, what I say students competition that I 1569 01:24:46,480 --> 01:24:50,520 sponsored in Nigeria. So I finished, I went to the 1570 01:24:50,520 --> 01:24:55,120 habit of Nigeria, by the way, it's called our low university. 1571 01:24:55,320 --> 01:24:58,480 So they have this annual conference wherein they're close 1572 01:24:58,480 --> 01:25:02,400 to about 10 universities. All economics are students, 1573 01:25:02,400 --> 01:25:05,880 right? So the Kingdom's podcast earlier 1574 01:25:05,880 --> 01:25:09,840 this year we had the inaugural that I say competition request, 1575 01:25:09,840 --> 01:25:13,760 you know, even price money and oppressor the winner, the 1576 01:25:13,760 --> 01:25:16,320 mentorship, right? So what do they do? 1577 01:25:16,880 --> 01:25:23,400 They watch the podcast and take any of the favorite episodes and 1578 01:25:23,440 --> 01:25:28,480 use the lessons to learn from that episode to create an 1579 01:25:28,480 --> 01:25:32,880 innovative solution to an existing economic program in 1580 01:25:32,880 --> 01:25:35,800 Nigeria and make a 5 minute presentation on it. 1581 01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:39,640 Yeah, it's sometimes I think we overthink. 1582 01:25:39,760 --> 01:25:43,560 I mean, especially in the US and the EUI think we over engineer, 1583 01:25:43,560 --> 01:25:46,640 we overthink we over a lot of things, but especially when 1584 01:25:46,640 --> 01:25:48,040 you're talking about emerging markets. 1585 01:25:48,080 --> 01:25:51,080 I mean, I, I, I'm oversimplifying it very much, 1586 01:25:51,080 --> 01:25:55,600 but these are solvable problems, right? 1587 01:25:55,640 --> 01:25:58,000 It's just that, absolutely. Absolutely. 1588 01:25:58,400 --> 01:26:01,840 I think you'd love to see the presentations of I would. 1589 01:26:02,640 --> 01:26:04,440 I would, yeah. I mean this. 1590 01:26:04,480 --> 01:26:07,560 This across the board, these are solvable problems and the 1591 01:26:07,560 --> 01:26:09,080 technologies exist to solve them. 1592 01:26:09,080 --> 01:26:11,800 And for the most part, the technologies are not, in my 1593 01:26:11,800 --> 01:26:14,560 opinion, the groundbreaking ones that require you know, someone 1594 01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:16,480 to know Solidity or something like that to solve. 1595 01:26:16,480 --> 01:26:19,760 Like a lot of these problems can probably be probably be solved 1596 01:26:19,760 --> 01:26:23,400 by putting together, you know, a set of the right open source 1597 01:26:25,120 --> 01:26:27,440 protocols, right? Like you would be surprised. 1598 01:26:27,440 --> 01:26:33,920 At the simple technology that the winner suggested for 1599 01:26:35,560 --> 01:26:39,440 providing a solution to the problem she was trying to solve. 1600 01:26:39,480 --> 01:26:42,000 I don't want to let the cat out of the bag, so I'll let you go 1601 01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:43,120 watch it. I'll go. 1602 01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:46,120 I'll go, I'll go watch it. But but yeah, I, I mean, I think 1603 01:26:46,240 --> 01:26:49,240 I, I also think that a lot of people get paid a lot of money 1604 01:26:49,240 --> 01:26:51,960 to overcomplicate things, right? Like as soon as you start going 1605 01:26:51,960 --> 01:26:55,960 and working for an unnamed consulting firm, it benefits you 1606 01:26:55,960 --> 01:26:58,280 a lot to make things really complicated, right? 1607 01:26:58,320 --> 01:27:01,120 But as a founder, like, that's not going to serve you, 1608 01:27:01,120 --> 01:27:05,080 especially in the early days. Absolute absolutely. 1609 01:27:05,120 --> 01:27:07,440 You know, like simplicity, toss it. 1610 01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:10,240 Like why? Why should you overcomplicate 1611 01:27:10,240 --> 01:27:12,000 things? Like it gets on my nerves, but 1612 01:27:12,720 --> 01:27:15,920 it is what it is. Yeah, yeah, you know, different 1613 01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:19,000 strokes are different folks. But really, as an entrepreneur, 1614 01:27:19,080 --> 01:27:22,520 you you discover that the Steam fact needs the better it needs. 1615 01:27:23,440 --> 01:27:26,400 Yeah, yeah. And less tech debt less, I mean, 1616 01:27:26,400 --> 01:27:30,240 it's just more scalable, more ability to adjust as new things 1617 01:27:30,240 --> 01:27:31,680 come in. I mean, across the board, like 1618 01:27:31,680 --> 01:27:36,880 the simpler you keep it, probably the better it's going 1619 01:27:36,880 --> 01:27:38,040 to be. I mean, think chlorine as an 1620 01:27:38,040 --> 01:27:40,560 example again, right? Buy now, pay later. 1621 01:27:41,360 --> 01:27:44,400 It is in and of itself like regulatorily compliance wise. 1622 01:27:44,400 --> 01:27:46,840 It's this whole new thing that they had to work through the, 1623 01:27:47,440 --> 01:27:50,960 you know, is this legal level of but when you think about it, 1624 01:27:50,960 --> 01:27:54,240 it's very simple. It's not it's not the craziest 1625 01:27:54,240 --> 01:27:57,440 thing in the world, right. And from that one kind of 1626 01:27:57,440 --> 01:28:00,560 groundbreaking innovation that is absolutely groundbreaking, 1627 01:28:00,560 --> 01:28:04,400 but also not the craziest thing in the world, we see a multi 1628 01:28:04,400 --> 01:28:06,800 multi multi billion dollar company come out of it because 1629 01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:09,360 they've been able to listen to their customers and learn and 1630 01:28:09,360 --> 01:28:15,160 build on top of and you know. I to rate and innovate exactly. 1631 01:28:15,720 --> 01:28:16,920 I think. That that's as a secret to 1632 01:28:16,920 --> 01:28:17,960 growth. But of course, you know, 1633 01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:21,640 Speaking of the Planner IPO and of course our market signals. 1634 01:28:22,120 --> 01:28:27,040 So the IPO actually sparked fresh conversations about 1635 01:28:27,080 --> 01:28:30,080 fintech valuations and that's the confidence. 1636 01:28:30,400 --> 01:28:34,840 So from your own vantage point, like what does this moment tell 1637 01:28:34,840 --> 01:28:38,360 us about the state of fintech markets in 2025? 1638 01:28:39,840 --> 01:28:45,400 This is the hard part where I think, I think anybody that 1639 01:28:45,400 --> 01:28:47,720 tells you that they know everything about finance or 1640 01:28:47,720 --> 01:28:51,560 anybody that gives you a really, really convicted answer on 1641 01:28:51,560 --> 01:28:54,560 something along these lines that like it means this for the 1642 01:28:54,560 --> 01:28:57,360 future of fintech or it means this for the future of public 1643 01:28:57,360 --> 01:29:00,280 markets. I'd be willing to place a bet 1644 01:29:00,280 --> 01:29:03,080 that they're wrong. Like the more confident they are 1645 01:29:03,080 --> 01:29:05,640 about whatever their answer is, I would be willing to bet 1646 01:29:05,640 --> 01:29:10,240 against them even stronger. So what that IPO tells me is 1647 01:29:10,240 --> 01:29:14,080 that Klarna was ready to IPO. I know it's the worst answer in 1648 01:29:14,080 --> 01:29:17,840 the world, but it's yeah, so. Sometimes the the tourist 1649 01:29:17,840 --> 01:29:20,880 answers are the simplest ones. Yeah, and. 1650 01:29:20,880 --> 01:29:24,160 It, I mean, does it signal an opening of IPO markets? 1651 01:29:24,160 --> 01:29:26,080 Does it, does it signal good things for Finta? 1652 01:29:26,080 --> 01:29:30,120 It's, it's not, it's positive signals across the board, but 1653 01:29:30,120 --> 01:29:34,400 it's, but, but an IPO is a moment in time, right? 1654 01:29:34,400 --> 01:29:37,520 It's, it's about, it's about, it's about continuing that, 1655 01:29:37,520 --> 01:29:39,320 right. It's about the, the quarterly 1656 01:29:39,360 --> 01:29:41,760 earnings after that, it's about the quarterly earnings after 1657 01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:43,800 that. It's about, you know, half year. 1658 01:29:43,800 --> 01:29:47,640 It's about all of all of this. And if you start to see, you 1659 01:29:47,640 --> 01:29:50,440 know, a decline in some of this, it could also mean terrible 1660 01:29:50,440 --> 01:29:51,280 things. Excuse me? 1661 01:29:53,600 --> 01:29:56,360 You know, speaking about the earnings, right, you're talking 1662 01:29:56,360 --> 01:29:57,840 about at the end. And so I'm just going to 1663 01:29:57,840 --> 01:30:00,160 cooperate your point and you know, give you a lead up. 1664 01:30:00,440 --> 01:30:05,040 So growth versus profitability. So how can pounders actually 1665 01:30:05,040 --> 01:30:09,000 balance that growth, ambition, value, profitability in this 1666 01:30:09,000 --> 01:30:11,800 area where investors are prioritizing the fundamentals 1667 01:30:11,800 --> 01:30:14,960 again? See, I, this is another, another 1668 01:30:14,960 --> 01:30:18,400 area that I'm not quite sure about because I think I think in 1669 01:30:18,760 --> 01:30:23,240 traditional fintech, AKA I'm going to build a neobank 1. 1670 01:30:23,240 --> 01:30:26,200 I kind of think people are done building neobanks in, in 1671 01:30:26,200 --> 01:30:28,560 developed nations. Like I think that to our earlier 1672 01:30:28,560 --> 01:30:30,920 conversation, in emerging markets, there's a ton of 1673 01:30:30,920 --> 01:30:36,040 neobanks things left to be built, but in a merge like here, 1674 01:30:36,880 --> 01:30:40,760 they've kind of been built. So we're talking about. 1675 01:30:40,760 --> 01:30:43,680 Balancing growth and profits. Growth, yes, yes, yes. 1676 01:30:43,680 --> 01:30:49,240 So while we do, there is this narrative around unit economics, 1677 01:30:49,240 --> 01:30:50,840 there's this narrative around all that. 1678 01:30:52,120 --> 01:30:55,160 But when you look at where most of the VC dollars are going, 1679 01:30:55,400 --> 01:30:58,520 they're going to AI, right? They're going to these companies 1680 01:30:58,520 --> 01:31:03,840 that unit economically are selling a dollar for $0.50 in a 1681 01:31:03,840 --> 01:31:06,640 lot of cases, right? And they're being subsidized by 1682 01:31:06,640 --> 01:31:10,680 VC dollars. So this idea that unit economics 1683 01:31:10,680 --> 01:31:14,520 is mattering is very true for the Clarinus, is very true for 1684 01:31:14,520 --> 01:31:16,320 the companies that are prepping to IPO. 1685 01:31:18,240 --> 01:31:20,520 But is it true across the whole tech industry? 1686 01:31:20,560 --> 01:31:22,800 I don't know. And I actually think that 1687 01:31:22,800 --> 01:31:26,440 there's a shift happening back towards the let's take 1688 01:31:26,440 --> 01:31:31,000 absolutely gigantic swings because especially in the age of 1689 01:31:31,000 --> 01:31:35,480 AI, like it's not going to be a 0 sum game, but there's, there's 1690 01:31:35,480 --> 01:31:38,000 going to be a number, there's going to be a Fang, right? 1691 01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:41,480 There's, there's probably going to be a set of 10 or less 1692 01:31:41,520 --> 01:31:44,320 absolutely gigantic winners that come out of this. 1693 01:31:44,840 --> 01:31:50,160 So, you know, if they're making 20% margins versus 30% margins, 1694 01:31:50,160 --> 01:31:53,840 I think a lot of VCs at this point, they just want to see 1695 01:31:53,840 --> 01:31:56,720 growth, right? Like if, if open AI can end up 1696 01:31:56,720 --> 01:32:01,440 with 5 billion users, even if they aren't profitable, they can 1697 01:32:01,440 --> 01:32:04,320 turn on that profits bigot pretty fast because by that 1698 01:32:04,320 --> 01:32:06,960 point they've got everybody addicted to the product, right? 1699 01:32:06,960 --> 01:32:09,720 And addicted in a good way, because it's the copilot to 1700 01:32:09,720 --> 01:32:12,600 their life, right? And if I'm paying $20.00 a month 1701 01:32:12,600 --> 01:32:17,040 for it now and they change it to 30 price elasticity, whatever. 1702 01:32:17,040 --> 01:32:19,560 Like I'm paying 30, it's just going to, I'm paying, I'm going 1703 01:32:19,560 --> 01:32:22,640 to do, I'm not, I'm not losing my, my copilot, right? 1704 01:32:22,640 --> 01:32:28,560 Like that's not an option. So I, I guess I, I challenge the 1705 01:32:28,560 --> 01:32:33,160 premise of it a little bit. With that being said, I think if 1706 01:32:33,160 --> 01:32:35,920 you're starting more of a traditional finance company, 1707 01:32:36,720 --> 01:32:41,960 it's just hard and I would maybe stay away from doing it unless 1708 01:32:41,960 --> 01:32:44,800 it's, unless it's more on the infrastructure side or unless 1709 01:32:44,800 --> 01:32:50,520 it's something that's able to scale across the world without 1710 01:32:50,520 --> 01:32:53,080 having to depend on consumers, right? 1711 01:32:53,080 --> 01:32:58,600 Like I think, I think the age of consumer fintech is not over, 1712 01:32:58,640 --> 01:33:05,400 but it's, it's starting over. And as a result of that, I, I'm 1713 01:33:05,400 --> 01:33:09,480 skeptical about how much unit economics really is the focus 1714 01:33:09,480 --> 01:33:13,760 versus the story of the eventual unit economics, right. 1715 01:33:13,760 --> 01:33:16,000 Like as long as you can tell the story about the eventual 1716 01:33:16,000 --> 01:33:19,360 profitability, then you can get people there. 1717 01:33:19,920 --> 01:33:23,320 But I, I don't, I don't, I don't know how true it is that they 1718 01:33:23,320 --> 01:33:27,600 care as much as they say they care in Forbes and Wired and 1719 01:33:27,600 --> 01:33:32,840 TechCrunch and whatever. Marginal profit versus total 1720 01:33:32,840 --> 01:33:35,400 profit, right? We'll, we'll see we'll see what 1721 01:33:35,400 --> 01:33:38,240 happens in the end. But you just touch the nerve 1722 01:33:38,760 --> 01:33:43,360 with the pricing of Open AI and think about it. 1723 01:33:43,360 --> 01:33:48,520 What will happen like, OK, confession time. 1724 01:33:48,960 --> 01:33:54,520 I think there was this time I I I was trying to leave open AI to 1725 01:33:56,200 --> 01:33:59,600 trial and some other module. I just discovered that whoa. 1726 01:34:00,680 --> 01:34:03,160 So I need to start training this new. 1727 01:34:03,920 --> 01:34:07,400 Yeah, exactly right. This new thing from the scratch, 1728 01:34:07,400 --> 01:34:09,960 I'm like no, no, no, no, no, I'm going back. 1729 01:34:10,880 --> 01:34:13,920 There's there's, I mean, I don't know if it's sunk cost is not 1730 01:34:13,920 --> 01:34:15,160 really the right way to think about it. 1731 01:34:15,160 --> 01:34:20,840 But like you are, you're developing especially because of 1732 01:34:20,840 --> 01:34:23,880 ChatGPT having memory and you know, some of those things like 1733 01:34:24,040 --> 01:34:25,160 yeah. You. 1734 01:34:25,160 --> 01:34:27,280 Develop relation. Not relationships. 1735 01:34:27,520 --> 01:34:29,840 Hopefully not relationships, but you. 1736 01:34:29,880 --> 01:34:34,360 You develop loyalty as a result of just the product itself. 1737 01:34:34,840 --> 01:34:37,440 So. People don't understand that you 1738 01:34:37,440 --> 01:34:42,280 know what goes into training your AI and just tell you. 1739 01:34:42,720 --> 01:34:44,480 But this, this is an alternative. 1740 01:34:44,480 --> 01:34:46,000 You can just easily speak to this one. 1741 01:34:46,000 --> 01:34:48,040 It's even cheaper. And like, don't worry, you can, 1742 01:34:48,240 --> 01:34:50,360 you cannot understand. Yeah. 1743 01:34:50,440 --> 01:34:52,440 And imagine that in an enterprise level, right? 1744 01:34:52,440 --> 01:34:55,560 Like think about like, so one of the biggest companies in the US 1745 01:34:55,560 --> 01:34:59,640 doing really cool stuff with AI is Rocket, the Rocket Mortgage 1746 01:34:59,640 --> 01:35:02,480 actually. So they basically like an 1747 01:35:02,480 --> 01:35:05,720 underwriting and actually trying to like get somebody through a 1748 01:35:05,720 --> 01:35:08,280 loan, right? There's a whole bunch of steps 1749 01:35:08,280 --> 01:35:10,520 in that process. And if you just like apply AI 1750 01:35:10,520 --> 01:35:14,160 horizontally through that, that's not going to go well for 1751 01:35:14,160 --> 01:35:17,480 regulation regulators or a lot though there's a lot of things 1752 01:35:17,480 --> 01:35:20,080 that could fall apart. But if you take a step back like 1753 01:35:20,080 --> 01:35:23,880 Rocket did and you say, OK, piece by piece, like we're going 1754 01:35:23,880 --> 01:35:26,760 to, we're going to turn this into basically micro services, 1755 01:35:26,760 --> 01:35:29,440 if you will. And within some of those micro 1756 01:35:29,440 --> 01:35:33,840 services, we're going to apply AI and explainable AI, not AI 1757 01:35:33,840 --> 01:35:35,720 that we just, I don't know, it said this. 1758 01:35:35,720 --> 01:35:38,200 So we did it, you know, because that doesn't work in financial 1759 01:35:38,200 --> 01:35:40,960 services. So if you can apply AI in 1760 01:35:40,960 --> 01:35:45,000 specific places in that stack, the outcomes are crazy. 1761 01:35:45,400 --> 01:35:47,040 Don't remember the numbers off the top of my head. 1762 01:35:47,040 --> 01:35:49,280 This was a little while back, but Rocket announced something 1763 01:35:49,280 --> 01:35:54,840 along the lines of like a 20% decrease in touches and a 20% 1764 01:35:54,840 --> 01:35:58,280 increase in throughput of actual volume, right? 1765 01:35:58,560 --> 01:36:02,400 And that was just as a matter of that kind of micro service AI 1766 01:36:02,400 --> 01:36:05,680 attachment, which I'm keeping very broad because I barely 1767 01:36:05,680 --> 01:36:08,640 understand it, but that, you know, it's, it's things like 1768 01:36:08,640 --> 01:36:12,520 that where I think we're really going to see fascinating things 1769 01:36:12,520 --> 01:36:14,360 happen. I, I think we're still very, 1770 01:36:14,360 --> 01:36:18,040 very far away from this AI that we're just going to plug into a 1771 01:36:18,040 --> 01:36:20,400 bank and it's going to somehow make things better, right? 1772 01:36:20,400 --> 01:36:23,280 Like stable coins will do that to some degree. 1773 01:36:23,320 --> 01:36:25,120 But even then, you're not just plugging that in. 1774 01:36:25,120 --> 01:36:27,040 That's, that requires engineering there. 1775 01:36:27,080 --> 01:36:29,880 There's, there's building that goes into all this. 1776 01:36:30,480 --> 01:36:30,840 Yeah. A. 1777 01:36:30,840 --> 01:36:34,760 Lot of engineering, prompt engineering ease, I don't know, 1778 01:36:35,480 --> 01:36:38,640 it's a difficult thing. And you, you get better as you 1779 01:36:38,760 --> 01:36:40,680 as you as you do it more. It's more like driving. 1780 01:36:40,800 --> 01:36:42,640 You become a better driver by driving more. 1781 01:36:43,240 --> 01:36:46,960 And I think I like that, that perspective that our rockets are 1782 01:36:47,320 --> 01:36:49,320 adopted. So it's, that's a project 1783 01:36:49,320 --> 01:36:52,280 management perspective. Basically you pull, you pull it 1784 01:36:52,280 --> 01:36:52,880 in. Yeah. 1785 01:36:52,880 --> 01:36:55,680 Exactly, it's of. Processes, right? 1786 01:36:55,680 --> 01:37:00,200 And of course you optimize, you know, the chains within other 1787 01:37:00,200 --> 01:37:04,200 processes. So if you optimize those pockets 1788 01:37:04,200 --> 01:37:09,320 within the processes, definitely you'd have an overall 1789 01:37:09,600 --> 01:37:12,240 optimization and that's pretty smart. 1790 01:37:12,240 --> 01:37:15,520 And that's why we go to school to learn this thing. 1791 01:37:16,160 --> 01:37:17,680 Exactly. Yeah, exactly. 1792 01:37:18,000 --> 01:37:21,320 It's not as sexy to talk about as some other stuff, but I mean, 1793 01:37:21,320 --> 01:37:24,760 it's the stuff that's gonna really make a difference in the 1794 01:37:24,760 --> 01:37:28,200 future financial services, especially in in regulated 1795 01:37:28,200 --> 01:37:29,920 industries. I mean, the same is true in 1796 01:37:29,920 --> 01:37:32,080 insurance. The same is true across a lot of 1797 01:37:32,080 --> 01:37:35,040 different spaces, I think even. Even in start. 1798 01:37:35,040 --> 01:37:37,480 Tops, right? If you should adopt that 1799 01:37:37,480 --> 01:37:40,360 approach, right? Just adopt A project management 1800 01:37:40,560 --> 01:37:44,360 approach and of course optimize your processes. 1801 01:37:44,600 --> 01:37:47,440 If you optimize your processes, just T stems will be optimized, 1802 01:37:47,520 --> 01:37:50,000 right? There's automation now, right? 1803 01:37:50,000 --> 01:37:53,680 I love automation. I don't need to the performance 1804 01:37:53,680 --> 01:37:58,880 setting repetitive tasks right So you are you automate the 1805 01:37:59,520 --> 01:38:04,320 financial side to the operations and if you're happy you don't 1806 01:38:04,320 --> 01:38:09,480 need to do more smart work beats hard work all day long but you. 1807 01:38:09,480 --> 01:38:11,960 Still need that audit, yeah. Yeah, but you see, you still 1808 01:38:11,960 --> 01:38:13,760 need the hard work. They pass it. 1809 01:38:14,000 --> 01:38:16,680 Getting the hard work in is even what is going to make you 1810 01:38:16,680 --> 01:38:17,680 smarter, you know? Yep. 1811 01:38:17,680 --> 01:38:21,440 A. 100%. Really, you need to, you need to 1812 01:38:21,440 --> 01:38:23,840 know what to do. Like right, You said earlier if 1813 01:38:23,840 --> 01:38:26,520 you do not work hard enough, you would not even know what to do, 1814 01:38:26,840 --> 01:38:29,400 Yeah. Yeah, And so, and I think it's 1815 01:38:29,400 --> 01:38:32,160 another one of those things where, I mean, you know, Sam 1816 01:38:32,160 --> 01:38:35,120 Altman, who it's so weird to me who Sam Altman has turned into. 1817 01:38:35,120 --> 01:38:38,360 But back when he was, you know, the startup guy, what he would 1818 01:38:38,360 --> 01:38:40,800 say over and over and over again is solve the smallest problem 1819 01:38:40,800 --> 01:38:42,800 that you can as well as you can, right? 1820 01:38:42,800 --> 01:38:46,840 Like take the smallest pain points and just solve it within 1821 01:38:46,840 --> 01:38:49,760 an inch of its life. Stays close to your customers. 1822 01:38:49,760 --> 01:38:52,680 You can and iterate, iterate, iterate, iterate. 1823 01:38:53,000 --> 01:38:55,480 And it's possible that whatever that thing is has nothing to do 1824 01:38:55,480 --> 01:38:58,040 with AI, has nothing to do with blockchain, has nothing to do 1825 01:38:58,040 --> 01:39:01,240 with any of these things. And if anything, I mean, I hope 1826 01:39:01,240 --> 01:39:05,040 we don't become over obsessed with some of these new 1827 01:39:05,040 --> 01:39:10,360 technologies because there's a, it's not great that some of our 1828 01:39:10,360 --> 01:39:13,000 bank systems are still running on COBOL and like really old 1829 01:39:13,000 --> 01:39:15,360 mainframes. But there's a reason that they 1830 01:39:15,360 --> 01:39:18,360 are, you know, there's, there's reasons for all these things. 1831 01:39:18,400 --> 01:39:24,080 And I think that sometimes startups that haven't studied 1832 01:39:24,080 --> 01:39:26,640 the history or had the chance to work inside of some of these 1833 01:39:26,640 --> 01:39:30,320 organizations just have this assumption that it's stupidity 1834 01:39:30,800 --> 01:39:32,920 or something, or this assumption that it's it's they're just 1835 01:39:32,920 --> 01:39:35,040 Luddites. Very very often it's not that. 1836 01:39:35,200 --> 01:39:38,040 Very, very often there's a very real reason that that specific 1837 01:39:38,040 --> 01:39:41,400 server is on Prem at that very specific place, be IT security, 1838 01:39:41,400 --> 01:39:44,760 be it whatever it might be, so. You read my mighty gay. 1839 01:39:45,480 --> 01:39:49,080 You know it's this security regulate your concerns. 1840 01:39:49,240 --> 01:39:52,040 Yep, we got to be careful. About getting too far over our 1841 01:39:52,040 --> 01:39:55,080 skis with a lot of this stuff, I mean, it is wildly exciting and 1842 01:39:55,080 --> 01:39:59,240 it's going to change the world. But you know, watch Ex Machina 1843 01:39:59,240 --> 01:40:01,520 and. You see how it could go bad? 1844 01:40:02,360 --> 01:40:07,000 We need to put a link to that movie, you know, in the in the 1845 01:40:07,800 --> 01:40:11,280 in the distribution section. So Speaking of strategy, like 1846 01:40:11,280 --> 01:40:15,320 what lessons can in tech entrepreneurs learn from planner 1847 01:40:15,960 --> 01:40:20,280 with how they have to detect from pandemic darling, it's a 1848 01:40:20,280 --> 01:40:22,760 long term sustainability. I really. 1849 01:40:22,760 --> 01:40:25,440 Think that the biggest lesson from Klarna, The thing that 1850 01:40:25,440 --> 01:40:27,560 impresses me the most about them is the business model 1851 01:40:27,560 --> 01:40:31,080 innovation, right? It's the fact that they're 1852 01:40:31,080 --> 01:40:34,120 serving multiple sides of a marketplace sitting in the 1853 01:40:34,120 --> 01:40:35,880 middle. They're they're facilitating 1854 01:40:35,880 --> 01:40:38,520 connections in a way that no other company does right? 1855 01:40:38,520 --> 01:40:41,960 They're a payments company, but it's also a discoverability of 1856 01:40:41,960 --> 01:40:44,480 that new pair of shoes. It's also right like it's, it's 1857 01:40:44,480 --> 01:40:47,640 a place where people spend time like you're wait, hold on 1858 01:40:47,920 --> 01:40:52,120 rewind. I'm opening a financial app to 1859 01:40:52,120 --> 01:40:55,320 spend time doing something other than just a pure fight. 1860 01:40:55,320 --> 01:40:56,960 Like I'm not I'm not transferring money. 1861 01:40:57,560 --> 01:41:00,240 I'm not investing in anything necessarily. 1862 01:41:00,240 --> 01:41:05,000 I'm just getting on there to check out maybe some shoes, 1863 01:41:05,360 --> 01:41:07,680 check out, you know what's going on. 1864 01:41:07,880 --> 01:41:12,480 But the payments app and in the US especially that like you 1865 01:41:12,480 --> 01:41:15,920 know, in Asia, super apps, things along those lines, that's 1866 01:41:16,080 --> 01:41:18,960 very much more a thing. But I think with what Klarna has 1867 01:41:18,960 --> 01:41:22,520 been able to do is to build that multi sided marketplace and to 1868 01:41:22,520 --> 01:41:26,000 build a brand that people want to be a part of. 1869 01:41:26,080 --> 01:41:28,240 I think that's the other thing about a lot of what fintech has 1870 01:41:28,240 --> 01:41:31,520 done is like the pride of a Corona card. 1871 01:41:32,280 --> 01:41:34,240 I think it says something about you, right? 1872 01:41:34,520 --> 01:41:36,720 In the same way actually. So this is a conversation we had 1873 01:41:36,720 --> 01:41:40,720 with their CMO and I was asking like, do you think the Corona is 1874 01:41:40,720 --> 01:41:44,720 in some way a luxury brand? And his basic answer, he said 1875 01:41:44,720 --> 01:41:47,880 no. But as we got in the weeds of 1876 01:41:47,880 --> 01:41:49,680 it, like there, there's overlaps, right? 1877 01:41:49,680 --> 01:41:52,360 Like there, there's pride in the idea that I have a client of 1878 01:41:52,360 --> 01:41:54,320 card. Like back in the day, I mean, if 1879 01:41:54,320 --> 01:41:57,440 you think about the Monzo card, having that orange Monzo card 1880 01:41:57,440 --> 01:42:01,120 walking on the card, that meant something, right? 1881 01:42:03,520 --> 01:42:05,560 It was a conversation starter, so. 1882 01:42:05,600 --> 01:42:08,360 I I traded my orange one for for the white one. 1883 01:42:09,040 --> 01:42:11,480 See, there you go. Even even that is like that's 1884 01:42:11,480 --> 01:42:13,960 what I'm saying is like all of these different I. 1885 01:42:13,960 --> 01:42:16,280 Don't have that route. I don't like that orange one. 1886 01:42:16,280 --> 01:42:19,760 It annoys me like everybody. Every top Deacon hire. 1887 01:42:19,760 --> 01:42:22,400 Just has the orange one to. Our to our earlier question 1888 01:42:22,400 --> 01:42:25,040 about growth hacking, that was a piece of growth hacking for 1889 01:42:25,040 --> 01:42:27,520 them, right. So to the client point, I think, 1890 01:42:27,680 --> 01:42:30,400 I think building a brand that people trust, you know, and 1891 01:42:30,400 --> 01:42:33,800 building a building a friendly brand inside of financial 1892 01:42:33,800 --> 01:42:39,040 services is something that's not easy to do that they've been 1893 01:42:39,040 --> 01:42:42,840 able to pull off. And I think that the like the 1894 01:42:42,840 --> 01:42:46,360 branding experiment in the branding execution they've done 1895 01:42:46,360 --> 01:42:51,240 there is more exciting than, you know, buy now, pay later itself, 1896 01:42:51,240 --> 01:42:54,200 like what they've done is so much bigger than what it started 1897 01:42:54,200 --> 01:42:58,160 with. And to me, to me, that is the 1898 01:42:58,160 --> 01:42:59,920 most exciting piece. I don't know if that's even 1899 01:42:59,920 --> 01:43:02,640 really a good answer, but to me that's what's so unique about it 1900 01:43:02,640 --> 01:43:07,400 that gets me excited about it. And, you know, Brandon actually 1901 01:43:07,400 --> 01:43:11,720 does. Would I say, I don't want to say 1902 01:43:11,720 --> 01:43:16,080 Manifili or like has a yeah, influencing people. 1903 01:43:16,080 --> 01:43:19,120 Yeah, yeah. Think yeah, Brandon is very, 1904 01:43:19,120 --> 01:43:20,280 very big. Yeah. 1905 01:43:20,280 --> 01:43:24,200 Like, I have a, you know, I fly a lot, so I have a Delta Amex 1906 01:43:24,200 --> 01:43:27,280 Reserve card, right? If I didn't fly so much, I 1907 01:43:27,280 --> 01:43:29,480 definitely wouldn't have that. It has nothing to do with my 1908 01:43:29,480 --> 01:43:32,800 actual standing in society, but it's metal. 1909 01:43:32,800 --> 01:43:34,960 It's heavy. When I drop it on the table, I 1910 01:43:34,960 --> 01:43:36,200 feel a certain way. Right? 1911 01:43:36,200 --> 01:43:38,480 Like there's. Yeah, it's all about like, 1912 01:43:39,320 --> 01:43:42,120 there's only so many touch points in finance where you can 1913 01:43:42,120 --> 01:43:45,040 separate yourself. And it's those little moments 1914 01:43:45,040 --> 01:43:47,000 that I think companies like Klarna have really been able to 1915 01:43:47,000 --> 01:43:50,080 figure out. Interesting stuff. 1916 01:43:50,200 --> 01:43:53,880 You know those metal cards just like the the Monzo or white card 1917 01:43:53,880 --> 01:43:55,160 as well. It's metal. 1918 01:43:55,560 --> 01:44:00,040 And when I'm at the airport and, you know, you swipe it and you 1919 01:44:00,040 --> 01:44:05,440 get VIP access discounted, you feel good about yourself. 1920 01:44:05,440 --> 01:44:07,080 Yeah, you kind of let. You grow in edge, you know, 1921 01:44:07,160 --> 01:44:10,880 you're like, yeah, excuse me, VIP coming through. 1922 01:44:10,880 --> 01:44:13,040 Yeah. It's, I mean, all it's a card, 1923 01:44:13,080 --> 01:44:16,160 you know, but but it gives you this it's it's emotion, right? 1924 01:44:16,200 --> 01:44:17,880 It brings you back to the emotion of it. 1925 01:44:18,160 --> 01:44:20,960 Yep. Yeah, and I, I like what they're 1926 01:44:20,960 --> 01:44:23,640 doing with this. You know partnerships, you see, 1927 01:44:24,080 --> 01:44:27,280 it's not just about the fintech, but of course, you know the 1928 01:44:27,280 --> 01:44:29,000 partnerships they're able to build. 1929 01:44:29,520 --> 01:44:32,520 Sometimes they just come up with a new partner and tell you, oh, 1930 01:44:32,560 --> 01:44:38,120 partner did this cinema. You can go grab, you know, the 1931 01:44:38,440 --> 01:44:42,160 cinema tickets, popcorns. I'm like wow, back. 1932 01:44:42,640 --> 01:44:45,240 If you think, yeah, I mean. A lot of things I don't. 1933 01:44:45,240 --> 01:44:47,800 I don't know if they would want me saying this, and luckily I 1934 01:44:47,800 --> 01:44:48,920 don't work there, so it doesn't matter. 1935 01:44:48,920 --> 01:44:52,240 But I think a lot of what they've done is, if you squint a 1936 01:44:52,240 --> 01:44:54,800 little bit, similar to a lot of what Amex did back with the 1937 01:44:54,800 --> 01:44:57,760 black card, right? Not that it's at that same level 1938 01:44:57,760 --> 01:44:59,840 of like only Jerry Seinfeld has one or whatever. 1939 01:44:59,840 --> 01:45:06,560 But if you think about kind of the you, you mentally associate 1940 01:45:06,560 --> 01:45:09,280 yourself with this brand in a way that makes you feel good 1941 01:45:09,280 --> 01:45:12,680 about yourself, right? And if you can achieve that in 1942 01:45:12,680 --> 01:45:15,160 financial services, you've unlocked something absolutely 1943 01:45:15,160 --> 01:45:17,760 gigantic. You know, entrepreneurship is 1944 01:45:17,760 --> 01:45:22,440 basically about unlocking markets, and these guys have 1945 01:45:22,440 --> 01:45:27,760 been able to unlock multiple markets and yeah, it's a really 1946 01:45:27,760 --> 01:45:30,200 good thing for them. But you know, you are at the 1947 01:45:30,200 --> 01:45:34,440 heart of curated content or, you know, conversations that one 1948 01:45:34,440 --> 01:45:36,760 needs 20 to 20. So what kind of leadership 1949 01:45:36,760 --> 01:45:41,480 mindset stand out to you in this space? 1950 01:45:42,080 --> 01:45:44,880 Just before you answered that I have a philosophy. 1951 01:45:44,880 --> 01:45:48,800 And by the way, Morgan Anderson, one of the top tax debt 1952 01:45:48,800 --> 01:45:53,000 resolution experts in America, describes me as a modern day 1953 01:45:53,000 --> 01:45:56,640 defense philosopher. OK, I I have taken that title 1954 01:45:56,640 --> 01:45:57,800 around with it. Right. 1955 01:45:57,960 --> 01:46:02,840 So part of my philosophies is that when you're hiring or when. 1956 01:46:03,600 --> 01:46:07,120 Yeah, when you're hiring to your team, when you or having 1957 01:46:07,120 --> 01:46:10,840 partnerships and visas, you need to consider three very important 1958 01:46:10,840 --> 01:46:15,000 things, Mindset, skill set and tool set, in that order. 1959 01:46:15,400 --> 01:46:17,960 The mindset, the skill set and the tool set. 1960 01:46:19,880 --> 01:46:24,080 Yeah, a lot of people, a lot of organizations disregard the 1961 01:46:24,080 --> 01:46:27,400 mindset and it costs you heavily. 1962 01:46:27,840 --> 01:46:32,400 It has cost me heavily as an entrepreneur like let's call it 1963 01:46:32,400 --> 01:46:35,280 speed of speed, right? The question you go for the 1964 01:46:35,280 --> 01:46:38,800 skill set and you know, you can learn very quickly that it's not 1965 01:46:38,800 --> 01:46:41,880 just about the skill set because the skill set kind of taught the 1966 01:46:41,880 --> 01:46:45,120 tool sets kind of provided AIS here, you know, different 1967 01:46:45,120 --> 01:46:49,680 softwares or the mindset. It's difficult to teach more a 1968 01:46:49,840 --> 01:46:54,000 success mindset of both mindset, especially if people are not 1969 01:46:54,000 --> 01:46:56,360 willing to adopt it. So. 1970 01:46:56,640 --> 01:47:00,520 Like in terms of the mindset of what has like been impressed you 1971 01:47:00,560 --> 01:47:04,480 in the space this. Isn't really, I mean, we have, 1972 01:47:04,920 --> 01:47:08,160 you know, 300, three, 150 speakers, some of the most 1973 01:47:08,160 --> 01:47:10,160 impressive humans in the world. Like we're going to have 1974 01:47:10,160 --> 01:47:13,600 Jennifer Bailey who runs Apple Pay at the show and I actually 1975 01:47:13,600 --> 01:47:16,160 get the get the privilege of getting to interview her. 1976 01:47:16,680 --> 01:47:20,440 We have Max Levchin at the show. I mean, part of the PayPal 1977 01:47:20,440 --> 01:47:22,280 mafia. Speaking of, you know, buy, buy 1978 01:47:22,280 --> 01:47:25,560 now, pay later. Just unbelievable people that we 1979 01:47:25,560 --> 01:47:29,200 have coming. But the thing the thing that 1980 01:47:29,200 --> 01:47:31,600 comes to mind at most is, is another company that will be 1981 01:47:31,600 --> 01:47:34,520 there and be there and with some strength. 1982 01:47:34,520 --> 01:47:38,400 They'll have a good number of folks there is Microsoft and if 1983 01:47:38,400 --> 01:47:41,080 you think about I. Love Microsoft? 1984 01:47:41,320 --> 01:47:44,440 Yeah, well, but what a weird. Take a step back. 1985 01:47:44,440 --> 01:47:45,880 Think about what a weird sense that is. 1986 01:47:45,880 --> 01:47:47,920 You just said. Would you have said that five 1987 01:47:47,920 --> 01:47:51,200 years ago? I I'm speaking to you using a 1988 01:47:51,200 --> 01:47:52,960 Microsoft laptop. Let's start. 1989 01:47:52,960 --> 01:47:56,000 From there have. You always been like a Microsoft 1990 01:47:56,000 --> 01:47:57,960 person. Yes, I'll. 1991 01:47:57,960 --> 01:48:00,480 I'll say so. Yeah, I'll say so. 1992 01:48:01,040 --> 01:48:02,480 I've never owned a Mac in my life. 1993 01:48:03,000 --> 01:48:05,080 Oh, my. I you're OK. 1994 01:48:05,400 --> 01:48:06,800 So you and I are different in that way. 1995 01:48:06,800 --> 01:48:10,880 I'm very like I'm Apple since the beginning, but yeah. 1996 01:48:11,000 --> 01:48:14,440 For phones, yeah, there you go. Yeah, but the. 1997 01:48:14,440 --> 01:48:15,720 Laptops. Nothing. 1998 01:48:16,200 --> 01:48:17,360 I don't think. I'm sorry. 1999 01:48:17,360 --> 01:48:19,840 I'm sorry, Apple. Only if you sponsor my podcast. 2000 01:48:19,840 --> 01:48:20,760 But I want. Here you go. 2001 01:48:20,760 --> 01:48:22,440 Yeah. I want Microsoft to sponsor my 2002 01:48:22,440 --> 01:48:25,440 podcast guys. But if if you look at kind of 2003 01:48:25,440 --> 01:48:30,960 where Microsoft was, I mean, Satya Nadella, I'm getting CE OS 2004 01:48:30,960 --> 01:48:32,720 mixed up. Satya Nadella is their CEO, 2005 01:48:32,720 --> 01:48:33,400 right? Yeah. 2006 01:48:35,280 --> 01:48:38,520 When you think about what he's done since taking over, it's 2007 01:48:38,520 --> 01:48:41,080 been cultural and it's been mindset related, right? 2008 01:48:41,360 --> 01:48:46,120 Because the amount of infighting inside of Microsoft of well, we 2009 01:48:46,120 --> 01:48:49,160 have this resource, we have this resource, we have this resource. 2010 01:48:49,200 --> 01:48:52,600 And like, we're not, we're not skipping levels, We're not 2011 01:48:52,600 --> 01:48:57,080 talking amongst teams. Like he disbanded all of that. 2012 01:48:57,160 --> 01:49:01,040 Like he actually, like he's incentivizing skip level 2013 01:49:01,040 --> 01:49:03,400 meetings. He's incentivizing just going 2014 01:49:03,400 --> 01:49:05,720 and talking to the person. Things that we would think of as 2015 01:49:05,720 --> 01:49:08,200 you know, inside of a startup is very obvious. 2016 01:49:08,560 --> 01:49:13,400 But if you're trying to go from VP to SVP at Microsoft in 2012 2017 01:49:14,160 --> 01:49:17,760 was not in your best interest. Your best interest was to do the 2018 01:49:17,760 --> 01:49:19,480 thing that made you look good, right? 2019 01:49:20,200 --> 01:49:23,240 And he's, I think been able to in a pretty small amount of time 2020 01:49:23,600 --> 01:49:27,200 shift this culture and with AI that everything on top of it 2021 01:49:27,200 --> 01:49:31,040 that they're building into one Team 1 dream, you know, for the 2022 01:49:31,040 --> 01:49:36,120 most part heading One Direction. So if there's one company I had 2023 01:49:36,120 --> 01:49:41,640 to pick that like really has done something unbelievable in 2024 01:49:41,640 --> 01:49:45,120 terms of, you know, size of company and, you know, size of 2025 01:49:45,120 --> 01:49:48,000 customer base and all that. Like what Microsoft has been 2026 01:49:48,000 --> 01:49:51,560 able to do in shifting their culture is unbelievable. 2027 01:49:51,560 --> 01:49:55,000 And I think so much of that comes back to the simplicity of 2028 01:49:55,000 --> 01:49:57,880 allowing humans to talk to humans and send. 2029 01:49:57,880 --> 01:50:01,200 I mean, humans are incentives. We are beings of incentives, 2030 01:50:01,200 --> 01:50:03,240 right? So if he shifts some incentives 2031 01:50:03,240 --> 01:50:06,240 internally, that changes behavior. 2032 01:50:06,640 --> 01:50:09,880 And those incentives that he has changed has changed the behavior 2033 01:50:09,880 --> 01:50:13,080 significantly. And as a result, Microsoft isn't 2034 01:50:13,080 --> 01:50:16,320 this. Ten years ago you might have 2035 01:50:16,320 --> 01:50:19,040 thought of it as I'm trying to be as nice about this as I can. 2036 01:50:20,280 --> 01:50:24,680 They have taken thousand XA step forward in terms of their brand 2037 01:50:24,680 --> 01:50:26,920 perception, in terms of their technology, in terms of 2038 01:50:26,920 --> 01:50:29,560 everything, and they've done it in a pretty small amount of 2039 01:50:29,560 --> 01:50:32,400 time. And I mean, it's not like, you 2040 01:50:32,400 --> 01:50:35,520 know, it's not like Steve Ballmer and Bill Gates were 2041 01:50:35,560 --> 01:50:37,240 slouches. It's just it was just a 2042 01:50:37,240 --> 01:50:40,200 different time, right? And the CE OS in between all 2043 01:50:40,200 --> 01:50:43,920 very, very impressive people, but really understanding the 2044 01:50:43,920 --> 01:50:46,640 incentive driving the broader company and being able to 2045 01:50:46,640 --> 01:50:50,040 reorganize that to run One Direction like that's, that's 2046 01:50:50,040 --> 01:50:51,920 impressive. And then? 2047 01:50:52,120 --> 01:50:55,120 How, how about the acquisitions that they've made, for example, 2048 01:50:55,120 --> 01:50:58,360 they are LinkedIn, which is very strategic. 2049 01:50:58,800 --> 01:51:01,600 Yeah, I mean. Across, I mean their 2050 01:51:01,600 --> 01:51:04,400 acquisition, their acquisition strategy, the fact that they've 2051 01:51:04,400 --> 01:51:07,120 invested what they have in Open AI at the point that they did, 2052 01:51:07,120 --> 01:51:09,800 the fact that they're still also doing Copilot themselves. 2053 01:51:09,800 --> 01:51:13,400 I mean the list goes on as to the things that they're doing. 2054 01:51:13,400 --> 01:51:16,800 That makes so much sense. But to me, the biggest thing is 2055 01:51:16,800 --> 01:51:18,600 like, I don't think a lot of those things would have been 2056 01:51:18,600 --> 01:51:21,200 able to happen without the mindset and the culture shift. 2057 01:51:22,720 --> 01:51:27,400 Yeah, mindset, skill set, tool set, very, very pertinent, very 2058 01:51:27,400 --> 01:51:29,880 important. And of course. 2059 01:51:30,400 --> 01:51:33,360 While. Speaking about innovators, the 2060 01:51:33,360 --> 01:51:37,520 younger generation of innovators, so especially the 2061 01:51:37,520 --> 01:51:41,400 ones that are getting into fintech, right, you, you are the 2062 01:51:41,400 --> 01:51:45,600 pro, they are the Jews, so. I don't know. 2063 01:51:45,600 --> 01:51:48,280 About that, but here we go. So. 2064 01:51:48,280 --> 01:51:54,480 So what do you or what would your advice be to them right in 2065 01:51:54,480 --> 01:51:57,000 terms of helping them not feeling overwhelmed by 2066 01:51:57,000 --> 01:52:00,800 regulations or technology prevails First it comes to 2067 01:52:01,040 --> 01:52:03,480 finance. For Fentech entrepreneurs 2068 01:52:03,480 --> 01:52:07,640 specifically, I apologize in advance for this advice folks, 2069 01:52:07,640 --> 01:52:10,560 but my advice is go work in traditional financial services. 2070 01:52:11,880 --> 01:52:15,600 It's that sound like it's work. Go work at a regulator is what? 2071 01:52:15,600 --> 01:52:16,960 That's one thing I wish I would have done. 2072 01:52:16,960 --> 01:52:19,680 Like I wish that I at some point would have spent some time at 2073 01:52:19,680 --> 01:52:22,160 the FDIC or the OCC or something like that. 2074 01:52:22,160 --> 01:52:27,600 If I had not gone and spent time in banking, I would not know 90% 2075 01:52:27,880 --> 01:52:31,960 of what I know because just that time allowed me to learn even 2076 01:52:31,960 --> 01:52:34,360 the right questions to ask going forward to allow me to know 2077 01:52:34,360 --> 01:52:38,800 more, right? So my advice would be go work. 2078 01:52:39,320 --> 01:52:44,400 Go work somewhere long enough in a portion of the company that 2079 01:52:44,400 --> 01:52:48,240 you're interested in or that you or that frustrates you. 2080 01:52:48,240 --> 01:52:54,920 Maybe find the problem that you feel is fixable or the OR 2081 01:52:55,240 --> 01:52:59,120 candidly find the dumbest thing you can and build that thing. 2082 01:52:59,720 --> 01:53:03,280 You know, as small as it might be, it might be as simple as you 2083 01:53:03,280 --> 01:53:06,200 know right now, inside of this mortgage department, there's 2084 01:53:06,200 --> 01:53:09,080 literally a person responsible for picking up a piece of paper 2085 01:53:09,240 --> 01:53:11,760 or a stack of papers and carrying it up one flight of 2086 01:53:11,760 --> 01:53:15,800 stairs to this. That should probably be a piece 2087 01:53:15,800 --> 01:53:18,720 of software by now, unless it's legally required that that's a 2088 01:53:18,720 --> 01:53:20,600 human. And in the US and sometimes it 2089 01:53:20,600 --> 01:53:21,920 is legally required that's a human. 2090 01:53:22,400 --> 01:53:27,200 But I would say go work in the regulated industry, understand 2091 01:53:27,200 --> 01:53:31,520 it, and then build the solution that you think actually makes 2092 01:53:31,520 --> 01:53:34,880 sense whilst staying close to the regulators, right? 2093 01:53:34,880 --> 01:53:37,000 That's the other thing that's changed a lot is I think in the 2094 01:53:37,000 --> 01:53:40,120 early days of Fintech, regulators, policy makers, those 2095 01:53:40,120 --> 01:53:43,600 doors were open, but scary, right? 2096 01:53:43,840 --> 01:53:47,440 Founders didn't really want to kind of preempt anything like 2097 01:53:47,440 --> 01:53:51,000 they wanted to stay quiet. And I think the, the opposite is 2098 01:53:51,000 --> 01:53:54,680 true now or well, the opposite should be true now where you 2099 01:53:54,680 --> 01:53:56,840 know you're going, you're having that conversation, you're making 2100 01:53:56,840 --> 01:54:00,040 sure that whatever you're building actually isn't. 2101 01:54:00,320 --> 01:54:02,280 They're never, regulators are never going to tell you that 2102 01:54:02,280 --> 01:54:04,280 what you're doing is right. That's not how they function. 2103 01:54:04,680 --> 01:54:09,000 But they will give you, you know, broad strokes as to things 2104 01:54:09,000 --> 01:54:12,080 that you can do differently and read between the lines on and 2105 01:54:12,360 --> 01:54:13,640 you know, things along those lines. 2106 01:54:13,640 --> 01:54:18,000 But it's, it's unfortunately the best advice I can give is go 2107 01:54:18,000 --> 01:54:21,400 work inside of a incumbent, go work inside of a large financial 2108 01:54:21,400 --> 01:54:25,280 industry company, insurance company, whatever it might be 2109 01:54:25,280 --> 01:54:28,920 and solve that problem. On the other side of the coin, I 2110 01:54:28,920 --> 01:54:32,120 work for AD 5 company. Like if you are a good learner 2111 01:54:32,240 --> 01:54:37,600 and you can understand the specificities of tokenization 2112 01:54:37,600 --> 01:54:41,040 and also understand the basics of deposit accounts and 2113 01:54:41,040 --> 01:54:43,200 settlement, then you should probably be working in a 2114 01:54:43,200 --> 01:54:45,240 stablecoin company or starting one, right? 2115 01:54:45,520 --> 01:54:49,040 It just it kind of depends on who you are as a person and how 2116 01:54:49,040 --> 01:54:52,480 much of A self kind of self learner you are. 2117 01:54:53,000 --> 01:54:56,480 But I really don't think anything can replace the 2118 01:54:56,480 --> 01:55:00,200 experience of being inside of an organization, doing something 2119 01:55:00,840 --> 01:55:05,840 that you see could be done better and then going 100%. 100% 2120 01:55:05,840 --> 01:55:08,040 I do agree with you. There's no substitute for 2121 01:55:08,040 --> 01:55:11,680 experience, right? Yeah, but a lot of people in 2122 01:55:11,680 --> 01:55:13,480 this ageing time try to create shortcuts. 2123 01:55:13,800 --> 01:55:17,120 Good luck. Yeah, good luck. 2124 01:55:17,920 --> 01:55:19,840 You remind. Me of my experience in audit and 2125 01:55:19,840 --> 01:55:22,800 that's why I very, very much cherish my experience in audit, 2126 01:55:23,280 --> 01:55:27,840 right audit puts you in a very unique position I I'd pretty 2127 01:55:27,840 --> 01:55:31,320 much say auditors are accountants on steroids. 2128 01:55:31,520 --> 01:55:33,480 They are the accountants, the accountant. 2129 01:55:33,960 --> 01:55:41,920 So because in audits, you are doing a regulatory compliance 2130 01:55:41,920 --> 01:55:47,240 work and of course, you'll also doing financial reporting work. 2131 01:55:47,240 --> 01:55:51,240 You're reviewing the financial reporting of management, right? 2132 01:55:51,400 --> 01:55:54,640 So you are just in between and you're doing auditing as well. 2133 01:55:54,920 --> 01:56:00,720 So you grant like 3 different hearts at least in one person. 2134 01:56:00,960 --> 01:56:04,400 So it's like a cheat code for you to get your business acumen, 2135 01:56:04,400 --> 01:56:08,680 for you to get your technical competence, for you to build 2136 01:56:08,680 --> 01:56:11,080 relationships as well. And of course for you to learn 2137 01:56:11,080 --> 01:56:13,720 leadership. And of course, that global 2138 01:56:13,720 --> 01:56:16,760 argument of working with cross functional teams, because it is 2139 01:56:16,760 --> 01:56:19,280 very important to be able to work with cross functional 2140 01:56:19,280 --> 01:56:22,720 teams, right? So it's, it's difficult getting 2141 01:56:22,960 --> 01:56:26,600 all of that in just one single experience. 2142 01:56:26,680 --> 01:56:31,600 And that's why I totally agree with you with that point of view 2143 01:56:31,600 --> 01:56:36,560 of working in the traditional financial industry because that 2144 01:56:36,560 --> 01:56:38,600 that's the only way you can get it right. 2145 01:56:39,240 --> 01:56:41,000 You need to get the fundamentals right. 2146 01:56:41,120 --> 01:56:43,720 Get the ABC before you get to XYZ. 2147 01:56:44,400 --> 01:56:45,720 Exactly. Yeah. 2148 01:56:46,000 --> 01:56:48,520 And, and ask all the questions you can along the way. 2149 01:56:48,520 --> 01:56:52,440 People, people want to help. People want, you know, I, I had 2150 01:56:52,560 --> 01:56:55,400 a very lucky experience at MBKC where I got to work with the 2151 01:56:55,400 --> 01:56:57,960 executive team for the most part because of just the way my job 2152 01:56:57,960 --> 01:57:01,040 was structured. And I mean, I drove luckily 2153 01:57:01,040 --> 01:57:04,200 their friends now and feel like I didn't actually drive them 2154 01:57:04,200 --> 01:57:06,440 crazy. But the number of just dumb 2155 01:57:06,440 --> 01:57:08,760 questions that I would ask at the end of meetings, like we, we 2156 01:57:08,760 --> 01:57:11,720 would have, you know, 30 minute calls, they'd end up wrapping at 2157 01:57:11,720 --> 01:57:13,640 20. But I didn't let people out of 2158 01:57:13,640 --> 01:57:15,440 that room. Like I had 10 minutes of 2159 01:57:15,440 --> 01:57:18,520 questions of what just happened because I didn't understand, you 2160 01:57:18,520 --> 01:57:20,720 know, three different acronyms that were named. 2161 01:57:20,720 --> 01:57:24,040 So I forced them to stay in the room and define those acronyms 2162 01:57:24,040 --> 01:57:25,440 for me. So next time I was on the phone 2163 01:57:25,440 --> 01:57:28,240 without them, I could actually know what I was talking about, 2164 01:57:28,240 --> 01:57:30,200 right. And people generally want to 2165 01:57:30,200 --> 01:57:32,840 help. So ask ask those questions. 2166 01:57:33,280 --> 01:57:35,720 Yeah, but but a lot of people just assume. 2167 01:57:36,040 --> 01:57:38,200 So you don't like, I guess something I love to say you 2168 01:57:38,200 --> 01:57:42,600 don't get the question or ask. Yes, Mark is a close destiny. 2169 01:57:43,080 --> 01:57:45,360 Exactly. You gotta ask, baby, you gotta 2170 01:57:45,360 --> 01:57:47,520 ask. The worst they can say is no. 2171 01:57:48,480 --> 01:57:52,520 It has the worst and more like I've been taking nose since how 2172 01:57:52,520 --> 01:57:54,560 long the? More nose the better. 2173 01:57:54,560 --> 01:57:58,720 The more nose means more yeses. Yes, absolutely. 2174 01:57:58,720 --> 01:58:02,360 The people who wait to take my nose definitely get to get the 2175 01:58:02,360 --> 01:58:05,440 most yeses actually. So, but in terms of 2176 01:58:05,440 --> 01:58:10,040 misconceptions like what are the common misconceptions about, you 2177 01:58:10,040 --> 01:58:14,120 know, the fintech industry that people have even till today? 2178 01:58:17,320 --> 01:58:20,120 I think I think that at this point, I think the biggest 2179 01:58:20,120 --> 01:58:23,640 misconception is that fintech is so dramatically different than 2180 01:58:23,680 --> 01:58:27,200 financial industries. The idea that like if you think 2181 01:58:27,200 --> 01:58:29,840 about some of these fintech companies, unless you're working 2182 01:58:29,840 --> 01:58:33,280 in a true startup, they're at a point now where they're being 2183 01:58:33,280 --> 01:58:36,080 regulated similarly to some of the biggest banks. 2184 01:58:36,080 --> 01:58:41,800 They're like we, I don't really know how to say it other than 2185 01:58:41,800 --> 01:58:45,480 like we made it yellow like we did it like financial, like 2186 01:58:45,480 --> 01:58:50,200 fintech is big enough now that it is almost time for a new term 2187 01:58:50,200 --> 01:58:53,080 like fintech is financial services. 2188 01:58:53,840 --> 01:58:57,920 So this idea that like I, I am attached to the word fintech 2189 01:58:57,920 --> 01:58:59,800 because it's, you know, something I've attached myself 2190 01:58:59,800 --> 01:59:04,480 to through my whole career. But we've been doing this long 2191 01:59:04,480 --> 01:59:07,960 enough now we've gained the trust and we've grown up, we've 2192 01:59:07,960 --> 01:59:11,440 matured. So I, I don't think that fintech 2193 01:59:11,440 --> 01:59:13,480 is fintech anymore. I think fintech is financial 2194 01:59:13,480 --> 01:59:17,200 services. Yes, Fintech is financial 2195 01:59:17,200 --> 01:59:22,600 services or I guess a lot of voice has still suffering from 2196 01:59:22,720 --> 01:59:30,800 the trauma of yeah, that that wannabe perception of fintech 2197 01:59:30,840 --> 01:59:34,480 had you know what I say in the last decade, but it has come to 2198 01:59:34,480 --> 01:59:39,760 stay where it's the bosses, even the traditional banks of one 2199 01:59:39,760 --> 01:59:42,440 book and many it smell meetings like these. 2200 01:59:42,680 --> 01:59:48,080 And I think Fintech just needs more respect to the name. 2201 01:59:49,000 --> 01:59:51,160 Yeah, yeah. And I think it's getting there. 2202 01:59:51,160 --> 01:59:55,160 I mean, if you look at I mean, just I think Plaid is a great 2203 01:59:55,200 --> 01:59:58,320 like kind of the penultimate example of a fintech company 2204 01:59:58,320 --> 02:00:03,240 that has grown up into a true, you know, financial services 2205 02:00:03,240 --> 02:00:08,080 infrastructure provider, right? Like Zach and Will and team 2206 02:00:08,080 --> 02:00:11,560 built something that might have seemed a little nuts at certain 2207 02:00:11,560 --> 02:00:17,760 points and you know, had UPS had downs almost got acquired to 2208 02:00:17,760 --> 02:00:20,000 their benefit actually didn't has what seemed to have worked 2209 02:00:20,000 --> 02:00:22,360 out better that way, but they're. 2210 02:00:23,040 --> 02:00:25,640 That's a that's a financial services infrastructure company 2211 02:00:25,640 --> 02:00:28,920 now and they treat it that way like there's not a this idea of 2212 02:00:28,920 --> 02:00:32,960 move fast and break things does not exist in fintech at all 2213 02:00:33,040 --> 02:00:38,040 anymore because it can't we, we can't afford anything close to 2214 02:00:38,040 --> 02:00:41,600 that anymore. I mean, we and true the same is 2215 02:00:42,160 --> 02:00:46,760 true a million X in the crypto world like another FTX would set 2216 02:00:46,800 --> 02:00:51,680 set that back another 10 years, you know, in terms of pricing, 2217 02:00:51,680 --> 02:00:53,640 in terms of trust from regulators, everything. 2218 02:00:54,040 --> 02:00:57,200 So I think, I think now we have a new responsibility on our 2219 02:00:57,200 --> 02:01:02,120 shoulders to carry forward with responsibility with regulation, 2220 02:01:02,480 --> 02:01:06,920 with you know, compliant infrastructure that you know is 2221 02:01:06,920 --> 02:01:09,240 time to put on the adult pants basically. 2222 02:01:09,960 --> 02:01:12,360 Absolutely. We more success comes on more 2223 02:01:12,520 --> 02:01:15,640 responsibilities. Yeah, basically, you know, at 2224 02:01:15,720 --> 02:01:19,680 first Fintech is that term that is very close to your heart. 2225 02:01:19,800 --> 02:01:24,000 But the truth is it is not what it used to be in the last decade 2226 02:01:24,320 --> 02:01:29,800 any longer. It is or would I say the proper 2227 02:01:29,800 --> 02:01:38,040 industry right now and of course it is that I say that that adult 2228 02:01:38,640 --> 02:01:44,800 industry subset of financial services, it is proper financial 2229 02:01:44,800 --> 02:01:48,520 services. It's not just that baby industry 2230 02:01:48,520 --> 02:01:51,000 any longer. Yeah, I'll put you that way. 2231 02:01:51,480 --> 02:01:54,160 That's one thing that's really beautiful about fintech is the 2232 02:01:54,200 --> 02:01:59,960 innovation and of course the the rate of rapid growth that we 2233 02:01:59,960 --> 02:02:03,120 have experienced over time. It's I think. 2234 02:02:03,120 --> 02:02:06,600 People don't give fintech the credit that you deserve. 2235 02:02:07,120 --> 02:02:11,680 With that rapid growth, you already see industries come up 2236 02:02:11,760 --> 02:02:16,600 and just low and low up India fields the way fintech has has 2237 02:02:16,600 --> 02:02:19,520 done globally and it's on a global scale. 2238 02:02:19,920 --> 02:02:22,480 So I think they just have more respect. 2239 02:02:22,840 --> 02:02:26,440 But you know, speaking about these innovations, right, Like 2240 02:02:26,920 --> 02:02:30,360 what do you think, you know, from a personnel standpoint is? 2241 02:02:31,120 --> 02:02:34,960 But I'll say the most exciting, you know, on a global scale. 2242 02:02:35,520 --> 02:02:39,040 And of course, you know, for me, the financial inclusion is very, 2243 02:02:39,040 --> 02:02:43,160 very close in my heart, maybe because of the bias of, you 2244 02:02:43,160 --> 02:02:48,560 know, my origin as a person, right, coming from the country 2245 02:02:48,800 --> 02:02:52,880 in an emerging market. So I would always, you know, put 2246 02:02:53,080 --> 02:02:56,520 the work out there. And of course, you know, it's my 2247 02:02:56,520 --> 02:02:58,680 responsibility. I think it's my responsibility. 2248 02:02:58,680 --> 02:03:00,400 I took it off. I don't know who gave it to me. 2249 02:03:00,440 --> 02:03:06,320 I always try to ensure that I use my platform to ensure 2250 02:03:06,360 --> 02:03:11,480 development in, you know, the country that I came from. 2251 02:03:11,480 --> 02:03:13,680 So we should be shout out to my country. 2252 02:03:13,680 --> 02:03:16,080 By the way, I'm always having my flag here, so. 2253 02:03:17,560 --> 02:03:19,480 I bet that comes out during the UFCA lot. 2254 02:03:20,240 --> 02:03:24,640 Yeah. So I guess to answer your 2255 02:03:24,640 --> 02:03:27,000 question, I think the one thing that I haven't mentioned that 2256 02:03:27,000 --> 02:03:32,240 maybe is like nearest dearest, closest to my heart and what I'm 2257 02:03:32,840 --> 02:03:35,720 most hopeful and excited about of all of this. 2258 02:03:36,840 --> 02:03:39,120 When you take all the technologies we're talking 2259 02:03:39,120 --> 02:03:41,800 about, right? And you think about how all this 2260 02:03:41,800 --> 02:03:47,680 data has been siloed in very extreme ways, that leads to 2261 02:03:48,240 --> 02:03:51,920 money laundering. Money laundering leads to human 2262 02:03:51,920 --> 02:03:54,080 trafficking leads. I mean, I think a lot of the 2263 02:03:54,080 --> 02:03:55,960 time when people think about money laundering, they think 2264 02:03:55,960 --> 02:03:59,040 about narcos, right? Which in and of itself not 2265 02:03:59,040 --> 02:04:04,600 great, but a lot worse things than drug trafficking are 2266 02:04:04,600 --> 02:04:06,720 happening as a result of money laundering, right? 2267 02:04:06,720 --> 02:04:09,560 Human trafficking speaking. Of human trafficking. 2268 02:04:10,600 --> 02:04:12,440 Yes. Speaking of human trafficking, 2269 02:04:13,040 --> 02:04:16,240 I've had, I don't know if you know about the Meccan Club, 2270 02:04:17,200 --> 02:04:19,320 right. So they're one of the world's 2271 02:04:19,320 --> 02:04:22,880 top anti human trafficking organizations. 2272 02:04:23,520 --> 02:04:26,560 I've had the CEO on this forecast, yeah. 2273 02:04:27,720 --> 02:04:29,680 Yeah. So I mean, this, this is, this 2274 02:04:29,680 --> 02:04:32,440 is the thing, right, is if you think about the ability to break 2275 02:04:32,440 --> 02:04:35,640 down those data silos, right? And the ability for these bank 2276 02:04:35,640 --> 02:04:38,760 consortiums, in the same way that they're working to move 2277 02:04:38,760 --> 02:04:42,680 money together. If we're able to track and 2278 02:04:42,680 --> 02:04:46,360 understand more of the how those illicit funds move, if we're 2279 02:04:46,360 --> 02:04:49,720 able to, to gather more of those illicit funds, take them out of 2280 02:04:49,720 --> 02:04:51,760 the market, if we're able to find more of the bad guys, 2281 02:04:51,760 --> 02:04:54,480 basically the world becomes a much better place. 2282 02:04:54,480 --> 02:04:59,160 Like when I got into fintech, the stat was that we catch less 2283 02:04:59,160 --> 02:05:01,880 than 1% of money laundering across the world every year. 2284 02:05:02,360 --> 02:05:05,640 That stat has not changed. And it's a massive industry, 2285 02:05:06,040 --> 02:05:09,960 massive industry. And if you think about the 2286 02:05:09,960 --> 02:05:14,000 technologies we're talking about, if applied correctly and 2287 02:05:14,000 --> 02:05:18,480 government in like in public and private entities are able to 2288 02:05:18,480 --> 02:05:25,560 work together in good ways, like we could solve a lot more than 2289 02:05:25,560 --> 02:05:29,840 1% of money laundering folks, you know, And to me that that is 2290 02:05:29,840 --> 02:05:35,560 actually the thing that I'm not going to say it's the thing that 2291 02:05:35,560 --> 02:05:37,120 gets me out of bed in the morning because there's so many 2292 02:05:37,120 --> 02:05:40,360 pieces to 2020. But like, if there was one thing 2293 02:05:40,360 --> 02:05:43,000 in fintech that I would want to go build, like if I had to, you 2294 02:05:43,000 --> 02:05:47,040 know, go start something tomorrow, it would be around 2295 02:05:47,040 --> 02:05:48,920 that. It would be trying to find a way 2296 02:05:48,920 --> 02:05:52,080 to decrease money laundering in the world, to increase the 2297 02:05:52,080 --> 02:05:56,160 quality of the know your customer rules, and to basically 2298 02:05:56,160 --> 02:06:00,360 just try and do away with a lot of that evil. 2299 02:06:02,840 --> 02:06:06,520 Very, very important, you know, but at least, you know, we just 2300 02:06:06,520 --> 02:06:11,240 need to would I say, contribute the leader that we can 2301 02:06:11,240 --> 02:06:16,240 contribute into that fight against money laundering and, of 2302 02:06:16,240 --> 02:06:22,000 course, human trafficking. On my end, I've had Matt 2303 02:06:22,000 --> 02:06:22,800 Friedman. Yeah. 2304 02:06:22,800 --> 02:06:24,560 Matt Friedman is the CEO of Meccan Blog. 2305 02:06:25,840 --> 02:06:32,040 Anybody who knows about the fight against the doing 2306 02:06:32,040 --> 02:06:37,400 trafficking would know that guy. He he's based in Hong Kong, but 2307 02:06:37,800 --> 02:06:42,400 he's done a lot of work I think for the past 25 years or so on. 2308 02:06:42,440 --> 02:06:44,200 Yeah. You know the fight at first. 2309 02:06:44,200 --> 02:06:47,880 We have Team Nelson coming to the spot pass later in the year. 2310 02:06:48,320 --> 02:06:52,320 Team Nelson is the CEO of our Justice for Hope. 2311 02:06:52,880 --> 02:06:57,840 Yeah, that's another big, you know, our charity that fights 2312 02:06:58,560 --> 02:07:01,560 money. I'm sorry, human trafficking. 2313 02:07:01,600 --> 02:07:04,080 Yeah, I've had Paul Moore as well. 2314 02:07:04,080 --> 02:07:06,040 Paul Moore, he's an entrepreneur. 2315 02:07:06,040 --> 02:07:12,040 He's a real estate billionaire in the US and he contributes 2316 02:07:12,040 --> 02:07:15,760 really, really deep to other fighters against money. 2317 02:07:16,640 --> 02:07:18,000 Why do I keep stealing money laundry? 2318 02:07:18,240 --> 02:07:20,440 Because he's doing trafficking. Well, because. 2319 02:07:21,280 --> 02:07:22,680 You're probably. Saying it because money 2320 02:07:22,680 --> 02:07:25,800 laundering is, it's not just about human trafficking, right? 2321 02:07:25,800 --> 02:07:28,840 Like, I mean, I, I use that as something very visceral because 2322 02:07:28,840 --> 02:07:31,200 we can all agree that it's absolutely terrible, right? 2323 02:07:31,600 --> 02:07:35,120 But there's a, there's a show on National Geographic called 2324 02:07:35,120 --> 02:07:36,680 Trafficked. It's run by a woman named 2325 02:07:36,680 --> 02:07:39,640 Marianna Van Zeller. It's I've had the pleasure of 2326 02:07:39,640 --> 02:07:41,840 interviewing her a couple times at money 2020. 2327 02:07:41,840 --> 02:07:45,000 And basically what she does is she goes into a new dark market 2328 02:07:45,000 --> 02:07:47,320 every week. She'll go and literally follow 2329 02:07:47,320 --> 02:07:51,200 from how fentanyl gets created where like the initial, you 2330 02:07:51,200 --> 02:07:54,920 know, like the, the chemicals all the way into the lab all the 2331 02:07:54,920 --> 02:07:56,640 way into the actual final consumer. 2332 02:07:56,640 --> 02:07:58,200 She does the same with ghost guns. 2333 02:07:58,200 --> 02:08:01,600 She does the same with like there's so human organs, right? 2334 02:08:01,600 --> 02:08:05,560 I mean, there's so many things that money laundering is driving 2335 02:08:06,080 --> 02:08:09,160 that we we don't think about South in terms of like 2336 02:08:09,160 --> 02:08:12,000 humanizing it. One, go watch traffic on 2337 02:08:12,000 --> 02:08:14,400 National Geographic because Marianna's the shit. 2338 02:08:14,800 --> 02:08:19,400 But two, take a step back and think about the world of that 2339 02:08:19,400 --> 02:08:22,000 dark money. It's it's not good. 2340 02:08:22,240 --> 02:08:25,840 It's not good at all. And it's actually really, really 2341 02:08:25,840 --> 02:08:27,760 scary. And if we were able to solve 2342 02:08:27,800 --> 02:08:30,880 even 2%, the world would look a lot better. 2343 02:08:30,960 --> 02:08:34,600 So yeah, because. You know, it's very little money 2344 02:08:34,600 --> 02:08:37,640 fighting against a lot of money. So like how it's it's. 2345 02:08:37,800 --> 02:08:39,440 Systems I don't. Know, yeah. 2346 02:08:39,560 --> 02:08:41,240 And I think we finally have a knife. 2347 02:08:41,240 --> 02:08:44,560 To a gunfight. Yeah, yeah, it really is. 2348 02:08:44,560 --> 02:08:46,520 It really is. But I think now we, I think we 2349 02:08:46,720 --> 02:08:48,880 got our guns. The question is how do we put 2350 02:08:48,880 --> 02:08:50,880 them together? How do we build them and how do 2351 02:08:50,880 --> 02:08:53,680 we deploy them correctly? And that's an exciting question, 2352 02:08:54,320 --> 02:08:57,160 exciting metaphor that I hope doesn't get mixed, but you know 2353 02:08:57,160 --> 02:09:01,240 what I mean. Precision beats power, How many 2354 02:09:01,240 --> 02:09:05,080 beats beat? Indeed, I think. 2355 02:09:05,680 --> 02:09:09,640 It's just a matter of strategy and of course we we're able to 2356 02:09:10,680 --> 02:09:15,280 win that war against our human trafficking because it is very, 2357 02:09:15,360 --> 02:09:21,200 very, very inhumane. It's unacceptable. 2358 02:09:22,000 --> 02:09:24,040 All of it is man. I mean, it's, you know, I mean, 2359 02:09:24,040 --> 02:09:27,960 when you think about just fentanyl coming and across the 2360 02:09:27,960 --> 02:09:30,280 border from the top, from the bottom in the US, I mean, 2361 02:09:30,280 --> 02:09:33,600 there's, there's, there's so many, so many things that money 2362 02:09:33,600 --> 02:09:37,720 laundering powers that are the evils of the world. 2363 02:09:38,000 --> 02:09:41,800 And if we could make a real dent on that, then we're doing 2364 02:09:41,800 --> 02:09:43,360 something really, really good for the world. 2365 02:09:43,360 --> 02:09:46,320 So anyways, that's that's my public service announcement is 2366 02:09:46,320 --> 02:09:49,040 if you're thinking about going and starting something, think 2367 02:09:49,040 --> 02:09:51,400 about money laundering, think about anti money laundering 2368 02:09:51,400 --> 02:09:54,560 specifically. Interesting stuff. 2369 02:09:54,800 --> 02:09:56,720 I hope they get to hear you on that. 2370 02:09:57,120 --> 02:09:59,960 Wow. We've actually been on this spot 2371 02:09:59,960 --> 02:10:04,800 for more than two hours. You said it, you said it our did 2372 02:10:04,800 --> 02:10:08,920 it that we're going to have. A lot of fun today so. 2373 02:10:11,040 --> 02:10:13,760 We we will have our Part 3, the course. 2374 02:10:13,760 --> 02:10:17,080 You know this is Part 2 big fire round. 2375 02:10:17,200 --> 02:10:20,360 Are you ready to? I'm always ready to rumble, 2376 02:10:20,360 --> 02:10:21,200 baby. Quick, fire me. 2377 02:10:21,200 --> 02:10:23,280 Let's go, OK. Good, good, good. 2378 02:10:23,280 --> 02:10:25,040 I love that. You know, a friend of mine asked 2379 02:10:25,040 --> 02:10:26,920 me Are you ready? And I said I was born ready. 2380 02:10:27,840 --> 02:10:29,960 I don't know if I was born ready, but I'm ready right now. 2381 02:10:30,800 --> 02:10:35,280 OK, let's go So. The one machine. 2382 02:10:35,280 --> 02:10:38,200 Tech startup everyone should keep an eye on right now. 2383 02:10:38,200 --> 02:10:40,720 One second. That's a tough one. 2384 02:10:40,960 --> 02:10:42,880 Now I see why you say you are no born ready. 2385 02:10:43,480 --> 02:10:47,560 Now I just want to make sure. So there's a lot of companies 2386 02:10:47,560 --> 02:10:50,960 inside of fintech that have very, very similar names. 2387 02:10:50,960 --> 02:10:54,800 And I want to make sure that I'm saying the right name because 2388 02:10:54,800 --> 02:10:57,520 there's two companies. Braille. 2389 02:10:57,880 --> 02:11:02,200 Braille, Braille dot XYZ. It was this just because my 2390 02:11:02,200 --> 02:11:03,400 brain's tired, I couldn't think of it. 2391 02:11:03,400 --> 02:11:06,040 But it's that when I was talking earlier about the guy that 2392 02:11:06,040 --> 02:11:09,960 started the company in Des Moines and is now doing the 2393 02:11:09,960 --> 02:11:13,560 stablecoin stuff, I keep an eye out for Braille. 2394 02:11:14,040 --> 02:11:19,000 Ben Melon is one of the most impressive and good humans out 2395 02:11:19,000 --> 02:11:22,280 there building in fintech. So I don't know if that was like 2396 02:11:22,280 --> 02:11:24,440 lightning speed that I got you that answer because I wanted to 2397 02:11:24,440 --> 02:11:26,840 make sure I said the right thing, but Braille dot XYZ would 2398 02:11:26,840 --> 02:11:30,960 definitely be my answer. I say it's better to be right 2399 02:11:30,960 --> 02:11:34,040 down to the past, yeah. OK. 2400 02:11:34,040 --> 02:11:37,440 So what's the biggest leadership lesson you've learned in the 2401 02:11:37,640 --> 02:11:42,480 past year? Empower your team to an 2402 02:11:42,480 --> 02:11:45,160 irrational level. Make your team believe that they 2403 02:11:45,160 --> 02:11:47,160 can do more than maybe they even can. 2404 02:11:47,680 --> 02:11:50,320 I there's a really quick story with this. 2405 02:11:50,320 --> 02:11:56,680 So I used to coach for American soccer, for everyone else, 2406 02:11:56,680 --> 02:11:59,480 football. I used to go to goalkeepers when 2407 02:11:59,480 --> 02:12:01,600 I was in college or when I was in university. 2408 02:12:01,600 --> 02:12:04,720 I used to coach goalkeepers for my high school and there was 2409 02:12:04,720 --> 02:12:09,400 this really impressive kid that just played baseball and we've 2410 02:12:09,800 --> 02:12:11,680 at my old school, we never had good goalkeepers. 2411 02:12:11,680 --> 02:12:14,360 Like I ended up playing in college, but I had never touched 2412 02:12:14,360 --> 02:12:16,000 the ball until my first year in high school. 2413 02:12:16,400 --> 02:12:20,160 Just kind of ended up that way. And I always just told him that 2414 02:12:20,160 --> 02:12:24,000 he was the best goalkeeper in the state of Kansas, like 2415 02:12:24,120 --> 02:12:27,920 athletically everything, like just he's competing against kids 2416 02:12:27,920 --> 02:12:29,360 that have been playing since they were three. 2417 02:12:29,440 --> 02:12:31,880 Who cares? He's faster, he's stronger. 2418 02:12:31,880 --> 02:12:34,400 He's going to go harder, he's going to yell louder. 2419 02:12:34,400 --> 02:12:35,640 He's going to come at you harder. 2420 02:12:35,640 --> 02:12:38,760 He's going to communicate more like he is the 1. 2421 02:12:39,120 --> 02:12:41,840 And I would like, I would pull him to the side before every 2422 02:12:41,840 --> 02:12:44,200 time getting a little emotional. I'll pull him to the side before 2423 02:12:44,200 --> 02:12:45,720 every game. And I'd be like, you are the 2424 02:12:45,720 --> 02:12:47,200 one. It's you. 2425 02:12:48,000 --> 02:12:51,160 It's you, ain't nobody else. It's you. 2426 02:12:51,680 --> 02:12:57,400 So I think like second guessing your team, you gotta validate, 2427 02:12:57,400 --> 02:12:59,760 you gotta make sure that people are doing the things they're 2428 02:12:59,760 --> 02:13:01,480 doing. But when it comes to true 2429 02:13:01,480 --> 02:13:06,280 leadership, I mean, I think it's empower your team and make them 2430 02:13:06,280 --> 02:13:08,360 believe they can do more than maybe they can even do. 2431 02:13:09,920 --> 02:13:11,240 So I think that's very important. 2432 02:13:11,280 --> 02:13:15,120 By the way, he ended up playing for two years, was Allstate, got 2433 02:13:15,120 --> 02:13:18,200 college offers and like became one of one of the best 2434 02:13:18,200 --> 02:13:20,800 goalkeepers in Kansas. Actually he got he got more 2435 02:13:20,800 --> 02:13:23,800 accolades by the end of his time at the school than I did and I 2436 02:13:23,800 --> 02:13:28,160 was very proud of that. Yeah, like you definitely will 2437 02:13:28,160 --> 02:13:32,000 be part of that. Like I remember being a teacher, 2438 02:13:32,000 --> 02:13:36,400 being a lecturer, and I had some of my students like win a 2439 02:13:36,400 --> 02:13:38,560 national prizes. I never won a national prize 2440 02:13:38,560 --> 02:13:40,480 myself. And you know, seeing my own 2441 02:13:40,480 --> 02:13:44,200 students win prizes. And I've seen a number of my 2442 02:13:44,200 --> 02:13:46,280 students go on to do like really great things. 2443 02:13:46,680 --> 02:13:50,600 Some of our students have gone to Oxford for their masters and, 2444 02:13:50,640 --> 02:13:52,400 you know, gone to Harvard. And I'm like, wow. 2445 02:13:52,400 --> 02:13:54,160 Like I'm thinking proud of myself. 2446 02:13:55,360 --> 02:13:57,960 Let's keep making, let's keep making the impact, you know, 2447 02:13:59,640 --> 02:14:04,840 Hey, if you could host any 3 guests leaving or dead, you 2448 02:14:04,840 --> 02:14:09,560 know, on Syntech Family Hour, who, who they think what any. 2449 02:14:09,560 --> 02:14:14,440 Guests or any 3 guests and a three, Any three man. 2450 02:14:15,200 --> 02:14:21,240 Charlie Munger definitely 100% Patrick Allison I feel sexist 2451 02:14:21,240 --> 02:14:23,240 that they're just all going to be men, but Jamie Dimon. 2452 02:14:24,080 --> 02:14:26,480 I just feel like the conversation between those three 2453 02:14:26,480 --> 02:14:29,040 would be absolutely fascinating. Wow. 2454 02:14:29,320 --> 02:14:30,600 Why Charlie Munger? Why not? 2455 02:14:30,600 --> 02:14:33,000 Warren bothered. I know I had to guess. 2456 02:14:33,360 --> 02:14:39,000 Because so Warren Buffett is, I mean, obviously one of the most 2457 02:14:39,000 --> 02:14:42,720 impressive and amazing investors in the history of the world, but 2458 02:14:42,720 --> 02:14:44,920 Warren Buffett would not be Warren Buffett without Charlie 2459 02:14:44,920 --> 02:14:47,920 Munger. Like that, that relationship, 2460 02:14:47,920 --> 02:14:50,200 you know, they weren't, they weren't as close in later years, 2461 02:14:50,200 --> 02:14:52,320 things like that. But if you've never heard 2462 02:14:52,320 --> 02:14:55,840 Charlie Munger speak, go go to YouTube, listen to Charlie 2463 02:14:55,840 --> 02:14:59,760 Munger like his. He's done hours at Michigan 2464 02:14:59,760 --> 02:15:03,360 where he just gets interviewed. There is there are a few brains 2465 02:15:03,360 --> 02:15:08,160 in the world like his that are simultaneously. 2466 02:15:09,600 --> 02:15:11,560 His. His ability to simplify the 2467 02:15:11,560 --> 02:15:14,120 complex and to do it in a fun way. 2468 02:15:14,160 --> 02:15:16,760 I mean, the man's, the man's funny is another thing, you 2469 02:15:16,760 --> 02:15:20,120 know, And I think that something that we forget a lot is like to 2470 02:15:20,120 --> 02:15:21,480 learn, you need to be entertained. 2471 02:15:21,960 --> 02:15:24,800 And he's, you know, I mean, I think entertainment. 2472 02:15:25,200 --> 02:15:27,720 Exactly. Yeah, so I mean, I wouldn't pick 2473 02:15:27,720 --> 02:15:31,120 him because of the entertainment, but he's just one 2474 02:15:31,120 --> 02:15:34,360 of the most prolific thinkers and one of the most prolific 2475 02:15:34,360 --> 02:15:37,560 doers in the history of the world, I think. 2476 02:15:37,840 --> 02:15:39,800 And he didn't optimize for wealth, right? 2477 02:15:39,800 --> 02:15:47,000 Like he warns many X tend to 10s of thousands of XS more wealthy 2478 02:15:47,000 --> 02:15:49,720 than him. I mean, I don't even, I think 2479 02:15:49,720 --> 02:15:52,720 Charlie died a billionaire, but maybe not. 2480 02:15:52,920 --> 02:15:55,160 I mean, he's definitely in the hundreds of millions. 2481 02:15:55,400 --> 02:15:58,400 The one thing he ever bought that was like really, really big 2482 02:15:58,400 --> 02:16:01,160 for him was a boat. It was just a really big dumb 2483 02:16:01,160 --> 02:16:03,080 boat. It just it, I think it was like 2484 02:16:03,120 --> 02:16:05,720 basically a yacht, but it would break down all the time. 2485 02:16:05,720 --> 02:16:07,480 He didn't use it that much, but he wanted a boat. 2486 02:16:07,520 --> 02:16:11,920 He's just a unique man that has created some really interesting 2487 02:16:11,920 --> 02:16:14,440 mental models in terms of how to live life. 2488 02:16:14,920 --> 02:16:19,200 And I think when you take a person like that together with 2489 02:16:19,520 --> 02:16:22,600 my who I believe to be the philosopher king of fintech, 2490 02:16:23,040 --> 02:16:27,800 Patrick Carlson, and I just find Jamie Dimon to be fascinating in 2491 02:16:27,800 --> 02:16:31,920 general, like those three. I mean, that would be maybe one 2492 02:16:31,920 --> 02:16:33,320 of the few times I'd actually shut up. 2493 02:16:33,480 --> 02:16:34,920 Like, you know, I would just let them talk. 2494 02:16:37,360 --> 02:16:41,320 Interesting stuff. Jamie Dimon, I think that he's 2495 02:16:41,320 --> 02:16:45,200 got some, would I say, very strong opinions or on 2496 02:16:45,840 --> 02:16:49,639 controversial issues. Ed, he just makes him a figure 2497 02:16:49,639 --> 02:16:51,520 for you to see back and leak around. 2498 02:16:52,400 --> 02:16:54,840 I was. My maybe my replacement like if 2499 02:16:54,840 --> 02:17:00,080 I had like maybe Elon instead of Jamie maybe. 2500 02:17:00,080 --> 02:17:02,000 Last Yeah, I. Don't know. 2501 02:17:02,000 --> 02:17:03,719 That's a tough one. That's a, that's a, that's 2502 02:17:03,719 --> 02:17:06,480 definitely like a, you know, it's a strong, strong debate 2503 02:17:06,480 --> 02:17:08,920 between those two. But I would not replace Elon 2504 02:17:08,920 --> 02:17:12,719 Musk for Jamie, or for Charlie Munger or for Patrick Olson. 2505 02:17:15,680 --> 02:17:18,959 Let's have you turn it to Mount Rushmore, then. 2506 02:17:19,480 --> 02:17:22,040 Exactly. Basically, yeah, yeah, and. 2507 02:17:23,280 --> 02:17:24,320 Then. That's not about. 2508 02:17:24,320 --> 02:17:29,240 Rushmore So OK, so what's one book or podcast that completely 2509 02:17:29,240 --> 02:17:32,920 changed your mindset? Podcast. 2510 02:17:32,920 --> 02:17:35,879 To change my mindset, man, it's been so many. 2511 02:17:36,879 --> 02:17:40,120 I'll go with a book. So there's a The Almanac of 2512 02:17:40,120 --> 02:17:43,920 Nawal Ravikant and this was happens to be written by one of 2513 02:17:43,920 --> 02:17:47,440 my best friends. But naval is kind of a legend of 2514 02:17:47,440 --> 02:17:50,760 this of Silicon Valley, one of the founders of Angel List and 2515 02:17:50,760 --> 02:17:55,040 similarly A philosopher king of his time, a philosopher king of 2516 02:17:55,959 --> 02:17:59,280 not just start-ups, though of health, wealth and happiness, 2517 02:17:59,360 --> 02:18:02,920 right. So he's about building the best 2518 02:18:02,920 --> 02:18:07,440 life you can and not just work, work, work, work, work. 2519 02:18:07,840 --> 02:18:11,160 So the Almanac of Naval Rafikant I think would be with the one 2520 02:18:11,160 --> 02:18:14,320 that had that has had the biggest impact on my life. 2521 02:18:14,320 --> 02:18:17,680 And it's the kind of book that you can pick up and just open to 2522 02:18:17,680 --> 02:18:22,639 any page and there's value. You don't need the context of 2523 02:18:22,639 --> 02:18:25,360 the previous, you know, 20 pages or whatever it is. 2524 02:18:25,719 --> 02:18:28,840 And I do on a regular basis, just open it, take a quote and 2525 02:18:28,840 --> 02:18:32,480 think about that quote for the day that. 2526 02:18:32,480 --> 02:18:34,559 Is Eric jogging soon? Yeah. 2527 02:18:35,959 --> 02:18:40,639 Proud, proud new father as well. It would I definitely have to 2528 02:18:40,680 --> 02:18:44,559 keep that being and I I see it's it's quite it's quite cheap, 2529 02:18:45,559 --> 02:18:47,920 yeah. Yeah, I think it's, I don't, I 2530 02:18:47,920 --> 02:18:50,959 have no idea what it cost to be honest, but it's the audible he 2531 02:18:50,959 --> 02:18:53,559 just redid. He just redid the audio version 2532 02:18:53,559 --> 02:18:57,600 with actual some excerpts with an interview with Naval that he 2533 02:18:57,600 --> 02:19:01,480 did. I mean it's just Naval I think 2534 02:19:01,480 --> 02:19:04,160 is probably the most prolific tweeter ever. 2535 02:19:04,320 --> 02:19:06,520 I mean, hundreds of thousands of tweets. 2536 02:19:06,520 --> 02:19:09,320 He said so much publicly. And to write that book, Eric 2537 02:19:09,320 --> 02:19:14,680 literally read every word the man has ever said, written every 2538 02:19:14,680 --> 02:19:16,559 piece. And he got it down into the 2539 02:19:16,559 --> 02:19:19,639 succinct. Like I don't know how many pages 2540 02:19:19,639 --> 02:19:22,080 it is, but it's pretty succinct and it is. 2541 02:19:22,400 --> 02:19:24,080 I hope they. Have it on being kissed. 2542 02:19:25,240 --> 02:19:26,799 There you go. Yeah, I'm I would imagine. 2543 02:19:26,799 --> 02:19:29,680 I would imagine they do. Yes, they do. 2544 02:19:30,040 --> 02:19:32,879 Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's worth, it's 2545 02:19:32,879 --> 02:19:34,840 worth a read. And and it's one of those books 2546 02:19:34,840 --> 02:19:37,480 that, you know, you don't, you don't have the need to pick up 2547 02:19:37,480 --> 02:19:41,280 and read from beginning to end because I, I don't think I could 2548 02:19:41,280 --> 02:19:43,680 read it from beginnings. I mean, it's just you need time 2549 02:19:43,680 --> 02:19:46,320 to digest. You need like, it's one of those 2550 02:19:46,320 --> 02:19:49,280 things where you can just pick it up, open to a specific page 2551 02:19:49,800 --> 02:19:53,160 and think on one sentence for three days. 2552 02:19:54,840 --> 02:19:59,560 Just that kind of book. I love that I don't know what 2553 02:19:59,560 --> 02:20:02,480 you think about apps type blinkers, but I love blinkers. 2554 02:20:02,480 --> 02:20:05,760 You know, in this age of time, it's difficult kind of book 2555 02:20:05,760 --> 02:20:09,920 around or you know how busy we can but like it just helps you 2556 02:20:09,920 --> 02:20:14,440 to compress and to digest it I'm. 2557 02:20:14,680 --> 02:20:18,800 Yeah, I like, I like them. For me, I'm a I'm a podcast 2558 02:20:18,800 --> 02:20:22,680 addict, so most of my ears are taken up if unless I'm at the 2559 02:20:22,680 --> 02:20:24,680 gym, it's pretty much podcast time. 2560 02:20:24,680 --> 02:20:27,560 So I don't listen to as many books or read as many books as I 2561 02:20:27,600 --> 02:20:31,080 used to just because it feels like, especially right now in 2562 02:20:31,080 --> 02:20:34,760 finance, like if if you read a book, you're probably like a 2563 02:20:34,760 --> 02:20:37,280 year or two behind if you're talking about the the actual 2564 02:20:37,280 --> 02:20:39,680 industry. But in terms of like, mental 2565 02:20:39,680 --> 02:20:41,640 models about how to live life, you know, yeah. 2566 02:20:42,240 --> 02:20:43,440 Yeah, those last. A while. 2567 02:20:44,320 --> 02:20:46,960 I love I love those. I love those, you know, feel 2568 02:20:46,960 --> 02:20:50,520 like but I see Evergreen everything principles. 2569 02:20:51,000 --> 02:20:52,040 I. Remember the the. 2570 02:20:52,040 --> 02:20:53,920 Very first book my father ever kissed me. 2571 02:20:53,920 --> 02:20:56,480 Was thinking we'll reach by an apple and you know. 2572 02:20:56,520 --> 02:20:58,960 Yep. Yep, I've read that one too. 2573 02:20:58,960 --> 02:21:01,560 I couldn't get through more than like 3 pages I don't think 2574 02:21:01,560 --> 02:21:05,960 because I was like OK I'm pretty sure I need to think and grow 2575 02:21:05,960 --> 02:21:07,360 rich. Got it. 2576 02:21:08,800 --> 02:21:11,200 And you know the? Very first book I OK, I bought 2 2577 02:21:11,200 --> 02:21:15,480 books, you know, for myself with my money, the various press 2 2578 02:21:15,520 --> 02:21:18,920 books I got where Bill Kanecki possibly and friends and friends 2579 02:21:18,920 --> 02:21:20,520 people aren't the art of public speaking. 2580 02:21:21,640 --> 02:21:25,160 Yeah, how do I Yeah, actually how to win friends and influence 2581 02:21:25,160 --> 02:21:26,720 people. I feel like is one that of Gen. 2582 02:21:26,720 --> 02:21:30,320 Z and John Alpha skip could be a scary thing. 2583 02:21:30,480 --> 02:21:34,320 Like I think maybe it even needs to be like rewritten in a more 2584 02:21:34,320 --> 02:21:38,640 modern fashion because yes, it's I would agree on that one as 2585 02:21:38,640 --> 02:21:40,680 well. Yeah, very, very important. 2586 02:21:41,600 --> 02:21:45,800 Well, kind of course, the very last question for you is the 2587 02:21:45,840 --> 02:21:48,720 future of money is Dash. What do you think? 2588 02:21:49,840 --> 02:21:53,800 Being built right now, baby. OK, I love that and of course, 2589 02:21:54,000 --> 02:21:57,360 with that, it's love and respect to you. 2590 02:21:57,360 --> 02:22:03,520 I always my man podcast the SI unit for measuring life this 2591 02:22:03,520 --> 02:22:06,160 time and when a person shares their time with you to share 2592 02:22:06,160 --> 02:22:08,920 their life with you. It's been a pleasure. 2593 02:22:09,040 --> 02:22:11,800 It's truly been a pleasure, man. This has been this has been fun. 2594 02:22:12,080 --> 02:22:15,600 It's rare that I actually get to like, you know, explore and, you 2595 02:22:15,600 --> 02:22:18,800 know, conversate on these sadly, you know, because we're trying 2596 02:22:18,800 --> 02:22:22,200 to talk talking points. So it's been a pleasure man and 2597 02:22:22,200 --> 02:22:24,680 I really do want to do it again. And let's let's talk offline 2598 02:22:24,680 --> 02:22:26,600 about some of the partnership stuff because I think we could 2599 02:22:26,600 --> 02:22:29,840 do some I'm. So new to Lee, you know. 2600 02:22:31,120 --> 02:22:34,200 Whoa, man. Now, now. 2601 02:22:34,240 --> 02:22:38,320 I mean, tell you what. We got to go to AUS, we got to 2602 02:22:38,320 --> 02:22:41,080 find the right time, we got to find the right country and we 2603 02:22:41,080 --> 02:22:43,160 need to go to a UFC together. You. 2604 02:22:43,160 --> 02:22:45,560 Coming to London again, Good. Morning. 2605 02:22:45,560 --> 02:22:50,160 Like any dude, I'm in. Do you actually tell Uncle Dana, 2606 02:22:50,600 --> 02:22:54,760 by the way, I have manifested this, right, that I would have 2607 02:22:54,800 --> 02:22:57,880 been a wipe on this podcast? It's not a matter of Eve. 2608 02:22:57,880 --> 02:23:01,400 It's a matter of when I like it. I have manifested this. 2609 02:23:01,720 --> 02:23:05,400 You know about the PKFC, right? About the PKFC. 2610 02:23:06,000 --> 02:23:08,640 Yeah, the PKFC Ben Uncle Python Championship. 2611 02:23:08,760 --> 02:23:10,200 Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 2612 02:23:11,080 --> 02:23:15,000 DV Feldman. We've had detail bound in this 2613 02:23:15,000 --> 02:23:16,040 podcast. Dude, you. 2614 02:23:16,040 --> 02:23:19,720 Have so many second degree connections to Dana you yeah 2615 02:23:19,840 --> 02:23:22,920 yeah I think I think we should do is just walk around Vegas and 2616 02:23:22,920 --> 02:23:25,040 just try and find Dana at the right point with the right 2617 02:23:25,040 --> 02:23:30,080 number of drinks in and then I bet he'll do he'll say yes all 2618 02:23:30,080 --> 02:23:34,120 good Dana all the looking for you we'll track him down we'll 2619 02:23:34,120 --> 02:23:36,440 get him let us. Let us track him down. 2620 02:23:36,440 --> 02:23:38,840 Let us track him down. Well, it's just his stuff, 2621 02:23:38,840 --> 02:23:39,840 right? Yeah. 2622 02:23:39,880 --> 02:23:41,640 Gratitude is good attitude, right? 2623 02:23:41,720 --> 02:23:44,480 And 1st, I am very, very grateful to you. 2624 02:23:45,120 --> 02:23:48,040 And I always say this to the audience, always with the 2625 02:23:48,080 --> 02:23:52,000 company in life, right? Conceive beliefs, try to thrive 2626 02:23:52,000 --> 02:23:55,080 and achieve. For me, it's a goodbye. 2627 02:23:55,080 --> 02:23:57,920 And of course, Zack, do you want to leave a shout out to anybody? 2628 02:23:57,920 --> 02:24:02,240 And 1st, do you want to give any last words before you say 2629 02:24:02,240 --> 02:24:05,160 goodbye? Well, I mean, I wouldn't be 2630 02:24:05,160 --> 02:24:08,760 doing my job if I didn't say money. 2020 USA happening in 2631 02:24:08,760 --> 02:24:11,480 Vegas in October. Oh God, it's so many dates. 2632 02:24:11,480 --> 02:24:13,720 In my head. I want to say 26th through 29th. 2633 02:24:14,040 --> 02:24:17,200 Go to us.money2020.com. Depending on what part of the 2634 02:24:17,200 --> 02:24:19,160 world you're in, what you're interested in. 2635 02:24:19,160 --> 02:24:22,080 We also have shows in Europe. Amsterdam is going to be our 2636 02:24:22,080 --> 02:24:23,480 show in Amsterdam happens next year. 2637 02:24:23,480 --> 02:24:27,920 We also just two years ago launched a show in Asia and 2638 02:24:27,920 --> 02:24:30,560 Bangkok. So depending where you're at in 2639 02:24:30,560 --> 02:24:33,560 the world, what you're trying to learn about, come to Money 2020 2640 02:24:34,120 --> 02:24:36,280 reach out if you're interested and just want to have a chat, 2641 02:24:36,280 --> 02:24:40,720 I'm on LinkedIn. Happy to, you know, occasionally 2642 02:24:40,720 --> 02:24:43,480 busy, especially close to show, but always happy to help and 2643 02:24:44,600 --> 02:24:46,040 mutual. Thank you for your time. 2644 02:24:46,040 --> 02:24:48,080 This has been an absolute pleasure and really glad we 2645 02:24:48,080 --> 02:24:50,320 actually got to meet spend the time on and I'm excited to do 2646 02:24:50,320 --> 02:24:53,040 this in person. Absolutely. 2647 02:24:53,040 --> 02:24:57,320 Where you wonder where we're going to the studio and 1st have 2648 02:24:57,320 --> 02:24:59,120 to end this recording. That's important. 2649 02:24:59,440 --> 02:25:01,200 All right, let's do it. Let's do it.