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OK, so we will get started. 
I think they're making sure we 

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have a nice lunch. 
So the question was, how do we 

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safeguard time in our marriage? 
And it's definitely changed over

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35 years. 
So you have to keep adjusting 

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keep. 
But for for many years, I would 

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preach on a Sunday. 
Sunday was always the most 

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stressful day as a church 
planter, church leader, and we 

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always got Mondays off, which 
probably won't work for all of 

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you. 
So my Sabbath, our Sabbath, was 

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Monday. 
The kids were at school and we 

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would either cycle along canal 
paths or walk together, usually 

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have a pub lunch. 
So that was Mondays and that was

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always an amazingly we did 
hadn't got into playing cards by

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this stage. 
We could, we were still mobile, 

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we weren't, we weren't moving on
crutches. 

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So that was something that just 
worked really well for both of 

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us. 
What did you find good in 

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safeguarding time? 
I went through many years where 

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I thought it would just happen, 
that we would just get time 

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together, but then children come
along and that changes 

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everything. 
So we had to be very proactive 

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about it and we would literally 
have to sit down with a pen and 

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paper or diary, Google Diaries, 
whatever, and actually put time 

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in to go out and do something. 
But yeah, like we were saying at

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the end of the last session, 
it's got to be something that 

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you both want to do. 
You both need to be able to find

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this time, whatever it is, not 
to say, well, let's do that 

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because so and so does that 
unless it works for you and it 

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appeals to you, but you've got 
to find what works for you. 

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So yeah, Mondays for a quite a 
long season was a very special 

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one for us. 
Now that we are, I use this word

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very lightly, retired. 
Although in the ministry you 

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don't really retire, you just do
the same stuff and don't get 

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paid for it by the church. 
We are now good for nothing, 

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yeah. 
Yeah. 

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So we have a lot more time. 
And the danger there is that we 

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can almost spend too much time 
together, you know, if we're not

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careful. 
And yeah, so we have to still 

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manage our time even in 
retirement and say, well, what 

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are we doing today? 
What do we want to achieve? 

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Whatever stage of life you're 
at, it would be worth perhaps, 

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and this is only a perhaps, 
don't say. 

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Charlotte says we must do this, 
therefore we will do it. 

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It may be worth saying at the 
beginning of each day or as you 

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go to sleep the night before. 
So what have we got on tomorrow?

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00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,240
What do we want to achieve? 
Well, we need to get this done 

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and get that done. 
Sort this child out and that 

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child out and then so, so that 
you know what each other's 

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doing. 
We sit down a lot and I like to 

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write lists. 
It started with conflict 

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resolution, which we're going to
look at in a minute. 

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But Charlotte would say when's a
good time to talk? 

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We, we learnt that that's the 
way you speak to each other. 

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If you have a conflict, not I 
want to talk and I wanna talk. 

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Now that doesn't work. 
So you have to say when's a good

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time to talk, which means I'm 
really cross with you. 

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We, we need to deal with this 
issue. 

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But then Charlotte would tell me
her issues and she didn't like 

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me interjecting and clarifying. 
So I started taking notes 'cause

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she'd talked for half an hour 
and I couldn't remember all the 

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bullet points. 
I'd have 20 bullet points of 

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things I wanted to respond to. 
But we've learnt to get much 

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better, so now we should talk 
shorter and then reply shorter, 

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reply shorter. 
So that's helped. 

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But time that was really special
for for me was our kids started 

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every year going to a thing 
called Bonsall Bible Week, and 

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it was for seven. 
It was brilliant. 

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They loved it. 
So yeah, it was 7 to 11 year 

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olds. 
We would go and do AB and B 

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somewhere nearby where the kids 
were in case they needed us. 

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But we basically had time 
without the kids. 

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So it's great having kids. 
It's a joy. 

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But it changes your marriage. 
It changes the whole dynamic. 

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In fact, when we first had Naomi
31 years ago, I felt a bit left 

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out because Charlotte's with 
Naomi and breastfeeding her and.

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And I'm like, oh, it's lovely, 
but what about me? 

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What about our sex life? 
And yeah, well, we're not doing 

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that. 
You know, I just pushed out a 

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baby. 
And so I think Bonsall was 

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amazing for us. 
I called it Bonsall, which is 

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for different reasons, but it 
was just great to go to another 

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place. 
And then when our kids were a 

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bit older, they went to New Day.
We never went to New Day. 

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Now I suspect you have been, but
we never did. 

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We always found that was a good 
time for us to just be the two 

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of us. 
But we love being parents. 

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We love being grandparents. 
So when we look at conflict 

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resolution, a good place to 
start with this is identifying 

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your parents strengths and 
weaknesses. 

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So you've obviously got, 
generally speaking, a set of 

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parents each and it's worth 
sitting down and identifying 

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together what their strengths 
and weaknesses are. 

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The reason is that you will 
subconsciously, unwittingly, you

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will have absorbed, inherited 
some of their strengths and some

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of their weaknesses. 
Now, for example, my father was 

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a, a very, very academic man. 
He was a very clever man. 

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No, I did not absorb that. 
He was a a brilliant guy, but he

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actually was not very good. 
Well, actually he was rubbish at

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forgiving people. 
He would sulk, you know, even, 

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you know, as a grown man, he 
would sulk if he didn't get his 

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own way or if he felt he'd been 
done wrong by. 

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And until it was resolved, he 
would, yeah, not handle it well.

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And over the years we've 
realised that I have a habit of 

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doing that. 
I really don't like it if 

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something isn't resolved and I 
find I have found over the years

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forgiveness a much harder thing 
to do than Graham House. 

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Graham is brilliant at forgiving
and moving on so. 

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But on the other hand my parents
had many strengths as well. 

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They were incredibly hospitable 
and always had an open house and

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my friends and I and my siblings
and their friends, we were 

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always welcome there. 
And without even realising it, 

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when we started our married 
life, that's just what we did. 

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Not because we set out to think,
oh, now hang on a minute, what 

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can I do? 
You just end up doing things and

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responding to things the way 
your parents do. 

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So identify their strengths and 
weaknesses. 

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I just want to go back briefly. 
We talked about listening skills

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at the end of the last session. 
I just want to tell you the four

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different types of listening, 
because when you're dealing with

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a conflict resolution, it's 
helpful to understand how you 

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listen to each other. 
So the first type is 

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competitive. 
That means you're well, you see,

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no, no, you want your turn. 
You want to outdo the other one.

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You've got a bigger grudge to 
bear than they have. 

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So that's competitive. 
The next one, there's some 

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overlap here as well, is 
combative. 

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That means you are just waiting 
to prove that you are right and 

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that what they are talking about
is a waste of space. 

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Combative. 
The third one is passive. 

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It's like, yeah, I'm listening 
because it's really polite for 

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me to listen and I'm doing the 
right thing. 

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I'm being very godly here. 
But actually I don't care what 

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you're saying and I'm not really
taking it on board. 

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I'm not engaging here. 
And the fourth one is the good 

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one, the right one if you like, 
and it's active listening. 

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So when somebody, particularly 
your spouse or anybody, these 

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actually apply not just to 
marriage. 

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These are great tools in life. 
And these, particularly in a 

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church, are great tools to have 
a Cape. 

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So active listening is when 
somebody is talking to you, 

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engage with them by looking at 
them even not a bit in 

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affirmation. 
That shows them that you are 

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00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:00,600
engaged and that you're 
listening. 

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00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:04,800
You're not just waiting. 
Not affirm them. 

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00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:09,040
Affirm them means saying, oh, I 
see what you're saying. 

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00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:11,880
Yeah, that must be hard. 
Oh, right. 

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00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:13,880
That must have been difficult 
for you. 

148
00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:19,280
So affirming them is kind of 
agreeing with them that whatever

149
00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:24,560
it is as being hard or 
difficult, mirror it back if 

150
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necessary. 
And we talked about this. 

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00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:28,200
So say them. 
So hang on. 

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What you're trying to say is 
that this happened and you felt 

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00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,160
like this and it made you feel 
like this. 

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And then the best thing you can 
do, rather than than saying, 

155
00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:39,840
well, let me tell you about me 
and what happened to me, blah, 

156
00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,720
blah, blah, blah, blah. 
Ask them more questions. 

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00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:48,920
I love it when Graham and I are 
having a a disagreement and 

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we're trying to sort it out and 
he asks me questions and I ask 

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00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,160
him questions the way I say. 
But when you did that, what what

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00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,360
when you said that, what was in 
your mind? 

161
00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:01,920
What did you think you were 
going to achieve or what did 

162
00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:03,720
you? 
And it actually makes you 

163
00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,640
analyse what you've said and 
what you've done or what you've 

164
00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:08,960
not said and what you've not 
done. 

165
00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:14,320
So yeah, knowing what philtres 
to listen through as well. 

166
00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,520
So for example, on the day last 
week when Graham was absolutely 

167
00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:20,720
done in and was on the edge, he 
was just emotionally and 

168
00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:25,360
physically exhausted. 
He was listening through a 

169
00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:30,480
philtre of exhaustion. 
So anything that I said to him, 

170
00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,840
he couldn't take on board, he 
couldn't absorb it, he couldn't 

171
00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:38,160
process it. 
So I quickly had to recognise he

172
00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:42,280
was listening through that 
philtre, even though he normally

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00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,000
listens with a much better 
philtre. 

174
00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:51,040
So we also need to be able to 
forgive and apologise. 

175
00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:55,960
Forgiving and apologising, but 
never demand an apology. 

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00:11:56,680 --> 00:11:59,400
It's very easy to say you need 
to apologise. 

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00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,040
You need to be sorry for this. 
Tell me you're sorry. 

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00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:07,960
Tell me that isn't getting an 
apology from someone that's just

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00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,640
forcing them to say some words. 
OK. 

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00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,880
Because the heart attitude of 
apology isn't there. 

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I do however, like it if she 
says I'm sorry. 

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00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:28,000
It's very, very rare but so 
sometimes I do say I would like 

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00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:33,600
you to apologise for that after 
we've had a discussion and then 

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00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,120
she'll say are you demanding an 
apology? 

185
00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,200
No, I'm not. 
I would never do a guy here 

186
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:39,920
aren't. 
I. 

187
00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,600
No, no, you've done that to 
yourself. 

188
00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:51,480
So yeah. 
So I do say I would like an 

189
00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:55,120
apology and then I have to just 
drop it and usually the next 

190
00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:56,280
stage. 
I am sorry. 

191
00:12:58,360 --> 00:12:59,040
Carry on. 
Yeah. 

192
00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:05,080
And sometimes you may not always
be able to resolve it. 

193
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:10,240
You may have to get to a place 
where you agree to disagree on 

194
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,000
something. 
There are certain ways I like 

195
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,640
things doing, certain ways 
Graham likes things doing. 

196
00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:21,520
And there isn't necessarily a 
right or wrong is preference. 

197
00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:26,120
And that can be incredibly hard 
to navigate and incredibly hard 

198
00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:31,200
to marriage to to manage. 
So what we do have to do in 

199
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:36,840
those situations, and this is 
hard, if we have to lay down our

200
00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,760
perceived right to understand 
everything. 

201
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,280
So in the Christian faith, 
there's a great, sometimes it's 

202
00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:50,760
referred to with the the great 
mystery, and we don't understand

203
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,000
why God does things and we don't
understand why certain things 

204
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,520
happen. 
And a lot of it we can try and 

205
00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:04,280
explain with theology, but 
always this side of glory, there

206
00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:08,480
are going to be mysteries and 
things we don't understand. 

207
00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:13,640
So, for example, if a great 
tragedy strikes and, and I'm 

208
00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,720
sure we all know people who've 
been through incredible 

209
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:21,640
horrendous tragedies within 
their family and they said, but 

210
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,600
why, why did this happen? 
Why did God allow this? 

211
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,200
Why did that child die? 
Why this, why this? 

212
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:35,320
And there are sometimes in life,
in marriage, where we have to 

213
00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:40,680
say we we have to surrender to 
God and we have to say, I cannot

214
00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:44,120
explain this. 
I don't know why it has 

215
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:49,120
happened, but I surrender and I 
trust you God because you're 

216
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:54,920
sovereign, you're in charge. 
Because if we understood every 

217
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,480
single thing that happened, 
however difficult it was, 

218
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:02,280
however traumatic it was, if we 
understood every single thing 

219
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:07,320
about why our partner did this, 
why they did that, we would be 

220
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:11,640
forever going down rabbit holes.
And it would also make it about 

221
00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:17,080
us, not about him. 
And when we want to honour Jesus

222
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:21,880
in our marriages, part of that 
involves surrendering and 

223
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:26,880
submitting and saying I can't do
this, I really don't understand.

224
00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:31,600
But God, I'm trusting you, I'm 
leaning into you, pressing into 

225
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:36,240
you, and I'm going to move 
forward honouring you whatever 

226
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,120
happens. 
So I think coming back to the 

227
00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:48,080
whole God, I'm yours, or as Cody
Gapo said, I belong to Jesus. 

228
00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:50,520
Football reference doesn't 
matter. 

229
00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:55,640
Move on, tumbleweed. 
So you belong, it doesn't 

230
00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,400
matter. 
You'll understand it if you look

231
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,480
at the phone. 
So you've got to just keep 

232
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:06,720
saying, Lord, I'm yours and how 
do you want me to be a husband? 

233
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,760
So he says, I want you to love 
your wife like Jesus loved the 

234
00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:11,880
church. 
Lord, I'm yours. 

235
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,480
Help me to love Charlotte the 
way you love me. 

236
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,920
How does Jesus love me? 
Amazingly? 

237
00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,800
He doesn't condemn me, he 
encourages me, he accepts me. 

238
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,200
He says I'll never let you 
perish. 

239
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:30,320
I've got you. 
So he's totally amazing. 

240
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,920
And I've got to somehow say, 
Lord, please let that flow from 

241
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,800
me in my relationship as a 
husband. 

242
00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:42,640
So the most important thing, 
instead of looking girl, she's 

243
00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:46,680
got a speck in her eye, while 
I've still got this great big 

244
00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,920
beam in mind, I've got to just 
say, Lord, I'm yours. 

245
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,480
So I do think that's the first 
relationship we have to work on.

246
00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,840
Otherwise you just focus on 
changing your spouse. 

247
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,840
And then some people literally 
change their spouse. 

248
00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:07,960
And that's never the answer 
because they say that those who 

249
00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,839
end up going through a divorce, 
they think that's the solution, 

250
00:17:11,839 --> 00:17:14,480
get a different grass is 
greener. 

251
00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,760
But actually they're much more 
likely to then do it again 

252
00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,760
because they thought it was the 
solution. 

253
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,319
So now they're much, much more 
likely to get married 1/3 time, 

254
00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:25,839
1/4 time, fifth time, sixth 
time. 

255
00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:32,680
So marriage is God's institution
to help us to say God. 

256
00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:40,640
I am somewhat flawed and I don't
like it being pointed out, but 

257
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,480
she's right. 
Lord, you've got to help me, 

258
00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:50,160
help me to to change. 
And 35 years later, we haven't 

259
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,520
changed as much as we probably 
thought we would have done 35 

260
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:59,680
years ago. 
But the joy of being together is

261
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,400
so amazing, about having a 
family together, about being on 

262
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,480
a mission together, about going 
to Manchester together to plant 

263
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,000
churches, then going to 
Liverpool. 

264
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:15,000
It's just amazing to have a best
friend who's sometimes your 

265
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:21,760
worst enemy to be with. 
And and just because sometimes 

266
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:27,080
you're each other's worst enemy 
is, does that mean you should 

267
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:28,200
split up? 
No. 

268
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,280
Keep going back to God. 
Help me. 

269
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,800
Help Charlotte change us. 
Lord, we're yours. 

270
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,480
We belong to you. 
We need your help. 

271
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:43,360
But there are some things that 
we've learnt in 35 years about 

272
00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:48,600
the best way for us to listen to
each other. 

273
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,800
So the first one is we say, is 
this a good time? 

274
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,960
No, no, it is. 
It's not a good time. 

275
00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:58,760
It'll never be a good time, but 
it usually is a good time if I 

276
00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,280
just wait a few hours or she 
waits a few hours. 

277
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,800
I think it's OK to say no, I 
don't want to talk right now. 

278
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:09,720
We, we say that sometimes, but 
we will eventually say, oh, go 

279
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,480
on then let's, let's, let's get 
this out of the way. 

280
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:17,480
And no one wants to have a 
conflict resolution time. 

281
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,200
As a husband and a wife, I never
go Oh I'm really looking forward

282
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,760
to finding out what I've done 
wrong this week. 

283
00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,720
This is. 
Really painting me in a bad not 

284
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:32,440
at all, not at all. 
So first question, is this a 

285
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:37,440
good time or when would be a 
good time for us to which 

286
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:42,680
usually means for US 20 minutes.
We need at least 20 minutes and 

287
00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:47,040
it usually means right. 
Tell me what? 

288
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,840
It doesn't work very well. 
If you say right, you have your 

289
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,880
go. 
I need my go so we if Charlotte 

290
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,920
asks me when's a good time to 
talk, I've got something that 

291
00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:02,040
you've done. 
She doesn't say done, but I know

292
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:08,440
I've done something. 
So we're we're sit down. 

293
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,520
We have learnt that it does not 
help for me to say I've got 

294
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:17,640
something as well. 
You've just gotta suck it up and

295
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,000
think. 
I'll have to wait for tomorrow 

296
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,440
to mention my thing and it'll 
wait. 

297
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,880
Most things will wait. 
It's much better for me to 

298
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:29,280
listen well to Charlotte rather 
than be thinking, well I'll 

299
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,560
listen to yours, but you better 
listen to mine. 

300
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:37,240
That's competitive, isn't it? 
So first thing is just one of 

301
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,320
you. 
Hopefully you both are good at 

302
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,240
taking turns and say well 
actually I'm a bit offended at 

303
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,120
the moment as well. 
So the second thing that we've 

304
00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:53,880
learnt is you cannot muddy the 
water by the rest of the history

305
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,760
you've got together and you can 
do that. 

306
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:02,640
You muddy the water when you 
say, well, last time we had this

307
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:10,360
conversation about this very 
issue, about your driving, you 

308
00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:12,560
did this. 
You always do. 

309
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,760
You never do. 
So the world's always a never, 

310
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,840
never help. 
Don't use them. 

311
00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:24,560
They're so pejorative, so 
negative, so slurring the other 

312
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,800
person. 
You're not really trying to win 

313
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,360
an argument. 
You're trying to build a 

314
00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:33,680
relationship that flows a bit 
better. 

315
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,800
So yeah, we try not to say 
always and never. 

316
00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:43,640
We we try and say, well, this is
the thing that that I'm upset 

317
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,120
about. 
And then the other person 

318
00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:48,280
listens, usually for two 
minutes. 

319
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,120
We usually say to each other, 
I've got something I need 2 

320
00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:54,640
minutes. 
Sometimes it's 10 minutes. 

321
00:21:55,000 --> 00:22:00,480
It's OK. 10 minutes is a very 
brief time to invest in getting 

322
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:05,960
greener grass in your marriage. 
It's just very little time for 

323
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:10,280
10 minutes for me to listen or 
Charlotte to listen and then to 

324
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:16,680
say, OK, if you can agree with 
them, say you're right. 

325
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:22,440
I'm so sorry if you can, you may
not be able to. 

326
00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:27,640
Forgiveness isn't very easy. 
Jesus did it and it does flow 

327
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:32,360
through his people, but not 
quite as easily as we think it 

328
00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:36,200
should. 
So sometimes you just have to 

329
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:37,880
say, Lord, help me to be 
forgiving. 

330
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,680
Let your forgiveness, let your 
love flow through me. 

331
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,720
But yeah, so we we've learnt 
that one person has a go, but 

332
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,560
then don't muddy the water by 
bringing some other issue in. 

333
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:54,440
Or last you did this last year 
and now look what's happened. 

334
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,200
That's gone. 
That's water under the bridge. 

335
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:03,040
Deal with now, deal with today. 
Each day has enough trouble of 

336
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,520
its own Listening world today is
quite hard. 

337
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:11,080
If I listen world today, I don't
need to bring in or have last 

338
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:16,200
year's or 35 years of history 
about how it's gone. 

339
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:22,280
So those are some little tips 
about conflict resolution. 

340
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,720
Anything to add just? 
A final bit on that from me is 

341
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:35,560
that if you struggle with being 
able to forgive or saying sorry 

342
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:42,680
and apologising, or if you are 
somebody who's easily offended. 

343
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,360
So I'm just going to say those 
three things again so you can 

344
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,040
possibly identify them within 
yourself. 

345
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:59,800
So if you struggle to forgive, 
if you struggle to apologise or 

346
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:04,560
if you feel easily offended, 
it's a sign of spiritual 

347
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:09,200
immaturity. 
It means that you are depending 

348
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:13,680
on yourself and your strength 
and your expectation of your 

349
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:18,160
spouse rather than depending on 
God. 

350
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:24,600
So that is something I think 
that's a take away from today, 

351
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:30,360
that if any of those three do 
affect you, you need to really 

352
00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:34,120
go away, bring them before God 
and say, yeah, God, I just want 

353
00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:39,800
to be so in tune and in love 
with you, God, first and 

354
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:47,400
foremost, that this other stuff 
is not about me and my pride and

355
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,600
my rights and how I appear and 
me looking strong. 

356
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:57,120
And yeah, so that's my final 
thing on there, I think. 

357
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,200
I think when you come to a 
marriage day, you tend to think,

358
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,120
all right, so after you've had 
this 10 minute, 20 minute chat, 

359
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,760
it's all fine now. 
No, it isn't. 

360
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,320
It'll come back next week and 
it's the same thing. 

361
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,040
But you've done it again when I 
haven't because you forgave me 

362
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,280
about again. 
So you can't say again. 

363
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,600
You've got to say, can I've got 
another issue I want to talk 

364
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:27,440
about, but after 35 years, we've
talked about the same sorts of 

365
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:33,520
things over and over and over. 
When you water flowers or your 

366
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,920
green grass, you water it over 
and over and over. 

367
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:42,720
It's worth investing in the same
thing over and over. 

368
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,200
If there's forgiveness flowing 
and love flowing and you're 

369
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:50,960
going back to God, it's so 
helpful to know. 

370
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,040
But when you as a spouse are 
hurting, you can talk. 

371
00:25:55,640 --> 00:26:00,000
And it's also helpful to know 
that your your spouse is saying,

372
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:04,200
yeah, I'm I'm ready to listen. 
I'm not always ready to listen. 

373
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,920
Sometimes they're just like, I 
do not want to talk. 

374
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,440
When I come in from an elders 
meeting, Charlotte's first 

375
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,280
question is what's the gossip I 
do? 

376
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,960
Not. 
She doesn't say. 

377
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,400
No, that that was that was a 
joke. 

378
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:22,480
She doesn't say. 
How did it? 

379
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,240
Go what she means? 
What's the gossip? 

380
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:32,880
So, and I'm like I have just 
been listening to a load of talk

381
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,360
for two hours. 
I do not want to talk anymore. 

382
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,680
My talk amateur is finished for 
today. 

383
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:43,360
I want to turn on a drama. 
She only watches BBC. 

384
00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:48,520
It's got to be ABBC drama. 
So yeah, I'm. 

385
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:54,600
I'm talked out. 
They say that little boys make a

386
00:26:54,600 --> 00:27:00,480
lot of noise and we'll sort of. 
Whereas little girls chat away 

387
00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:04,600
and I think in our marriage 
we've learnt that I chat much 

388
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,960
less Charlotte chats much more 
naturally. 

389
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:14,400
I, you know, once my 4 words a 
day are up, that's my that, 

390
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,320
that's my 4 words. 
You gotta wait for tomorrow for 

391
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:22,320
five, 6-7 and eight. 
Whereas Charlotte, 10,000 words 

392
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,120
is, is easy. 
But that's just the difference 

393
00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:29,720
between men and women. 
We're different. 

394
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,600
And yeah. 
You now I have to say, you are 

395
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,720
actually a very good, generally 
a very good talker and listener.

396
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:42,680
But I think that has come as a 
result of what you went through 

397
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,400
35 years ago. 
If you want to talk about that 

398
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,360
now, maybe we'll say that for 
another weekend. 

399
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,880
But you have learned the hard 
way. 

400
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:58,640
And I think and therefore it, it
sometimes takes a, a drama or a 

401
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:05,920
trauma to, for, for people to be
good listeners and good 

402
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:11,480
speakers, sadly. 
And I think, yeah, you are not 

403
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:16,120
a, you are not a standard bloke 
who just sits there and doesn't 

404
00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:17,960
listen. 
Some of them do. 

405
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:19,880
I'm not saying anybody here is 
like that. 

406
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:25,520
So what Charlotte's referring to
is when I was 22, I just become 

407
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,120
a Christian. 
I got married at 22 to an 

408
00:28:28,120 --> 00:28:31,200
American who then went off with 
another guy. 

409
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,880
Four years later I came back to 
England broken. 

410
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,960
The only Christian in my family,
the only one divorced in my 

411
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:40,240
family. 
Can I just say that was? 

412
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:45,120
His first divorce, I like to 
call it that, keeps him on his 

413
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:45,520
toes. 
I. 

414
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,760
Call it his divorce. 
I call it his first divorce. 

415
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:56,480
But definitely God used that to 
help me to learn more about him 

416
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,880
really and his goodness. 
And he carried me through that 

417
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,440
period and then carried me into 
this relationship. 

418
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:10,280
And why, Lord, he knows. 
He knows why? 

419
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,840
Because we have been on a 
mission together for 35 years. 

420
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:22,280
And actually what's really funny
is I was married to an American 

421
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:29,000
in Philadelphia doing a master's
in theology, and God spoke to me

422
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,480
and I knew I was coming back to 
England. 

423
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,720
My American wife loved England. 
She's like, I want to go to 

424
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,320
England with you. 
And so from Philadelphia, we 

425
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,040
sent all our stuff to my parents
in Horsham. 

426
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:47,240
And at the same time, one of the
seminary professors said if we 

427
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:52,880
lose the city, Philadelphia, we 
lose the nation. 

428
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,440
If we lose the cities, we lose 
the nation. 

429
00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:01,000
And he meant what was happening 
in America was all the gun crime

430
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,680
and drug crime was happening in 
the city centre. 

431
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:09,280
And people who are a bit richer 
disappeared into the suburbs 

432
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,560
where it was a bit nicer. 
So he said, I'm staying in the 

433
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,960
city centre, right. 
So he, he was lovely. 

434
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,560
And I just said, Lord, send me 
back to English cities. 

435
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:23,320
And that was my prayer. 
But it was like a Joseph having 

436
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,080
a dream prayer. 
Joseph dreams. 

437
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,720
He lit a touch paper that 
exploded his life. 

438
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:37,000
He he shares the dreams and the 
next thing is he's a slave, He's

439
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:41,280
in prison, he's in Egypt. 
But it's all because he shared 

440
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,360
his dreams. 
I prayed this prayer and it was 

441
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:52,680
like my marriage fell apart, my 
first marriage and I come back 

442
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:57,360
to Horsham, which isn't a city. 
I'd said send me back to English

443
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,600
cities. 
I come back broken to Horsham 

444
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,400
and God picks me up little by 
little with some godly men in 

445
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:08,280
Horsham who encouraged me and 
particularly Terry. 

446
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:14,440
Virgo was amazing and his grace 
message was amazing, which we'll

447
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,240
be looking at tomorrow if you're
around. 

448
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:26,440
But and it was so lovely the way
God kind of took this broken 

449
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,480
Christian. 
I thought he, he was, you know, 

450
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,960
untwisting me. 
I think I was more broken as a 

451
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,440
Christian. 
But now I knew I was broken. 

452
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,360
But he's got me. 
He's carried me broken. 

453
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:41,880
And then he started to untwist 
me again. 

454
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:47,400
And then I meet Charlotte and 
I'd but I'd forgotten all about 

455
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,320
the dream. 
I just wasn't praying for 

456
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,160
cities. 
I was just surviving. 

457
00:31:53,560 --> 00:32:00,760
Life is sometimes surviving. 
And anyway, I I meet Charlotte 

458
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:05,320
and she's so beautiful and so 
suntanned and. 

459
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:10,280
This was a long time ago. 
And and I was preaching. 

460
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:14,560
We were planting a church in a 
little village called Calfold 

461
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,680
and she comes along and she's 
the only visitor and I was 

462
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,960
preaching and so I went and said
hello but I assume she's a non 

463
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,960
Christian. 
She looked too too glamorous to 

464
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,560
too too secular really to be a 
Christian. 

465
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:35,640
But then she started what what I
now thank God for. 

466
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,840
She started teasing me 
relentlessly because I would 

467
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,520
never ask anyone out. 
And she said why don't you ever 

468
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,920
go out with anyone? 
I was 30 at the time. 

469
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,400
And I said, well, I'm only going
to go out with someone if God 

470
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,160
tells me this is who you're 
going to marry. 

471
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,400
And she just laughed and and 
laughed and no one laughs at 

472
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,280
someone saying that, but she 
did. 

473
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,440
And she just laughed. 
She said, oh, you're just hurt. 

474
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,080
You just don't want to get hurt 
again. 

475
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:13,160
I laughed and, and but eight 
weeks of her doing that to me, I

476
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,400
thought, she's right. 
Wow, I am hurt. 

477
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,720
I really don't want to get hurt 
again. 

478
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,920
But I asked her out. 
And then we got married and 

479
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,960
almost immediately we went to 
the Brighton Conference together

480
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:28,720
because we didn't have children 
yet. 

481
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,160
And at the conference, Terry 
Virgo had a prophecy. 

482
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,760
When the bow is pulled back into
the nation, Charlotte's from 

483
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,920
Manchester. 
When the bows pull back into the

484
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,680
nation, you'll be fired into the
nations. 

485
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,480
And it was like God lit the 
touch paper again. 

486
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,600
And I said to Charlotte, I 
think, gosh, just said when the 

487
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:54,240
bows pull back to Manchester, 
you'll be fired into France. 

488
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,840
And she goes, I left Manchester,
I don't want to go back to 

489
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,040
Manchester. 
But two years later, we were on 

490
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,480
our way to Manchester, sent by 
New Frontiers. 

491
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,120
Charlotte's happy pregnant as 
well. 

492
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,760
I'm happy to be going back to 
her city. 

493
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:12,120
And then God kind of reminded 
me, English cities. 

494
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,800
God's plan was always for me to 
end up in English cities. 

495
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,960
Not that, you know, towns and 
villages are bad, but that was 

496
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:25,440
God's plan for me. 
And it all took off when I kind 

497
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,199
of took another risk about 
getting hurt because you do get 

498
00:34:29,199 --> 00:34:33,199
hurt in marriage, even if you 
stay together, you, you hurt 

499
00:34:33,199 --> 00:34:38,679
each other, but also you heal 
each other and you have mission 

500
00:34:38,679 --> 00:34:43,880
together and a family together. 
And it's just a joy, actually. 

501
00:34:44,199 --> 00:34:49,239
I'm so pleased. 
Being single is meant to be 

502
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:53,800
better. 
And it is what Jesus did and 

503
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:55,960
Paul did. 
They didn't get married. 

504
00:34:56,639 --> 00:35:01,920
But most of us need can't just 
survive me and God. 

505
00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:07,560
And it says if if you need to 
get married, get married. 

506
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,840
If you can stay single, stay 
single. 

507
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,440
I don't think I could. 
And actually, my life took off 

508
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:18,240
with this woman who's 
astonishing at getting visitors 

509
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:22,520
into our home, making them feel 
comfortable, starting a church 

510
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:26,560
in in Manchester in our house 
and then in Liverpool in our 

511
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,840
house. 
Couldn't have done it on my own.

512
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:33,440
I didn't know God was going to 
do all that in my life. 

513
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,880
But yeah, it's amazing being on 
a mission together. 

514
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,120
Sorry, back to you. 
No, I've. 

515
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:45,440
Got nothing. 
Wrong. 

516
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,720
OK. 
I think this is a good time to 

517
00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:52,720
stop because we'll go into 
another session, but maybe 

518
00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:57,360
there's questions. 
We've got 4 minutes, one or two 

519
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,160
questions. 
Obviously, you haven't had time.

520
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:01,600
You don't have to go to Gen this
time. 

521
00:36:09,310 --> 00:36:14,830
That was nearly a hand, wasn't 
it? 

522
00:36:14,830 --> 00:36:16,830
Any questions, Scott? 
I'm just interested in your 

523
00:36:16,830 --> 00:36:23,280
story. 
How the the hurt that you felt 

524
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,120
that you would describe it, how 
did you make sure that that 

525
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:30,240
wasn't something that impacted 
your marriage to create at the 

526
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:32,640
beginning? 
I did it. 

527
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,240
Influence and where there things
you needed to repeat repair as 

528
00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:40,680
she went along because of that 
experience. 

529
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:42,480
I didn't make sure you just have
to trust God because I don't 

530
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,680
know if you all heard the 
question how did I make sure I 

531
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,240
didn't take those hurts into 
marriage. 

532
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:53,440
I was hurt, I was getting 
healed, but healing takes a long

533
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,160
time. 
And I would say I still had a 

534
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,000
wound and it was still festering
a little. 

535
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,080
So if we argued, I what do you 
think? 

536
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,000
I thought when we we argue when 
we're first married? 

537
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,760
Oh no, going to I'm going to get
divorced again. 

538
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,360
And she didn't help in those 
days. 

539
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:22,200
She'd pushed the divorce button.
So I think years went by until 

540
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:29,960
the joke, His first divorce made
me think, yeah, I can laugh at 

541
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,400
that. 
It took years, maybe five years 

542
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,840
of being married. 
And I thought, actually, that is

543
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:40,600
funny. 
It was always funny, but I was 

544
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:45,160
still wounds. 
Jesus heals us, He heals the 

545
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:50,040
wounded. 
But healing takes so long and in

546
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:54,000
various stages you think why? 
Why did it take so long? 

547
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,840
But I think Charlotte also was 
part of the healing process. 

548
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:01,920
Humour. 
Her humour is healing. 

549
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,120
Probably won't heal you today, 
but. 

550
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,840
God is the healer. 
OK, one more question. 

551
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:20,400
Someone be brave. 
You could ask what's for lunch, 

552
00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:22,360
but that's a different question.
Yeah. 

553
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,920
Nicola, how did you work out? 
What you missed you was as a 

554
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,840
cod. 
Followed. 

555
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,400
You want something? 
Wow, that is such a good 

556
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,440
question. 
You do want lunch today? 

557
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:38,320
Don't. 
You, I'm going to go, but I'll 

558
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,200
leave you with Charlotte that. 
Is a brilliant question, Nicola 

559
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:45,960
in a nutshell. 
When we met, we probably had 

560
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,720
slightly different missions. 
I'd come from a more sort of 

561
00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:51,880
straight traditional Anglican 
background. 

562
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:56,640
Graham was. 
What? 

563
00:38:56,720 --> 00:38:58,760
I was doing the choir boy thing 
but it didn't work. 

564
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:04,560
Graham was in this very 
charismatic movement, New 

565
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,320
Frontiers, Christ Central. 
That's what this church, our 

566
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:15,920
Blackpool church is, is part of.
So we were slightly at 

567
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:17,560
loggerheads. 
Not at loggerheads. 

568
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,000
I don't mean we were 
disagreeing, but we didn't, we 

569
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:26,120
had to make it work. 
And I quickly realised that I 

570
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:32,920
did not have the same level of 
faith and understanding in about

571
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:40,480
Kingdom that Graham had. 
So I first of all was involved 

572
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,920
in the church that Graham was 
helping to lead, thinking who 

573
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:48,640
are all these wacky people? 
They're all nut cases. 

574
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,160
They're all a little bit, you 
know, out there. 

575
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,560
But then the more I spent time 
around them, I thought, 

576
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,960
actually, these people are doing
it right. 

577
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,160
They've got something to be 
joyful about. 

578
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,560
They're excited about something 
and they're not just doing it on

579
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,600
a Sunday morning. 
They're living it, they're 

580
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,640
owning it. 
So I really, I feel, have some 

581
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:16,920
catching up to do. 
Now, that doesn't mean it's 

582
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:18,280
always going to be that way 
round. 

583
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,360
But for me personally, I had to 
catch up. 

584
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:24,640
You know, I felt with Graham 
then we had to. 

585
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:26,880
We will catch up on. 
That thank you. 

586
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:32,080
Then we had to. 
Then I realised that, yeah, 

587
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:37,600
Graham's on a mission, you know,
and he's prepared to really take

588
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:42,520
bigger risks than I take. 
So he would take, you know, much

589
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:47,880
greater risks to do with 
finances, giving money away or 

590
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,640
his giving to the church. 
And I would think, oh, you can't

591
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,400
do that. 
That's incredibly risky. 

592
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:59,720
But then the more he's, we, we 
sort of talked about it and the 

593
00:40:59,720 --> 00:41:05,320
more I learnt about it, the more
I realised actually he's taking 

594
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,080
what humanly speaking, we would 
call a risk. 

595
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,840
But it's not a risk when it's 
underpinned by God. 

596
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,680
You know, when you're doing 
something, you say, Lord, I'm, 

597
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,040
I'm going to step out in faith 
here and do this. 

598
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,520
Most people would say, oh, 
you're a Nutter. 

599
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:23,120
But actually I thought, no, he's
living by faith and I mean by 

600
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,680
faith. 
And so there were things like 

601
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:28,920
that. 
And then when he said I think 

602
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,760
God's calling us to Manchester 
and I was like, what just got 

603
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,320
settled here in Horsham. 
So he was more radical. 

604
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,360
He was more Kingdom minded. 
He was more missional. 

605
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:43,320
He was more of a risk taker for 
the Kingdom than I was. 

606
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:48,560
But once I caught that vision 
and caught that heart of his, 

607
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,880
then, yeah, we were on a mission
together. 

608
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,760
So I would really encourage you 
wherever you're at, you guys in 

609
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,840
your marriages, relationships, 
whatever, to try to be on a 

610
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,480
mission together. 
You may not always be in the 

611
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,120
early stages. 
It may be that one of you is 

612
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,920
further along than the other. 
That's OK. 

613
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:12,800
God can work with that. 
We are literally on a mission 

614
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,320
together now. 
Doesn't mean you necessarily 

615
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,960
agree on everything. 
It means that sometimes when we 

616
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,880
think, well, how much are we 
going to give to this, we'll 

617
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:25,120
come up with a figure and then 
Graham will say, let's put 

618
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,000
another naughty on the end of 
that figure. 

619
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:31,720
And I'm like, but actually it's 
exciting living on the edge. 

620
00:42:31,720 --> 00:42:37,440
It's exciting living on the 
front line. 75 is more exciting 

621
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:38,960
than 55. 
Sorry, I was just going to say 

622
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,760
I. 
Think it's possibly great to 

623
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:44,400
hear. 
It's possibly important to say 

624
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,840
that you don't have to move half
the country and start a. 

625
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,120
Church and then absolutely not. 
No, no. 

626
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,120
On a mission together doesn't 
mean moving around. 

627
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,680
Yes. 
On a mission means wherever you 

628
00:42:57,720 --> 00:43:01,640
are, right here in Blackpool. 
What's God calling me to do? 

629
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:03,440
It doesn't mean you have to go 
and move somewhere. 

630
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,880
I mean, maybe it is for some of 
you, but yeah, no good to 

631
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:09,480
qualify that. 
Thanks, Jen. 

632
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,320
Your mission is what God's 
calling you to do right here. 

633
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,200
You know, it doesn't have to 
have a title. 

634
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,520
Oh, I am the you don't need a 
title. 

635
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,600
Titles are rubbish. 
It's just what do I do day in, 

636
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,320
day out? 
What do we do together? 

637
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,160
And we were on a mission 
together in Horsham for two 

638
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:31,640
years before we moved. 
But I think God also closes 

639
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:36,040
doors and opens doors. 
And so Charlotte was still quite

640
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,960
Anglican when we were about to 
get married. 

641
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:43,720
So she she asked her vicar would
he do the wedding? 

642
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:49,040
And God closed the door so the 
vicar wouldn't marry me because 

643
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:52,160
I'd been divorced. 
But then, which Charlotte 

644
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:56,080
probably would have accepted, 
except that her friend from 

645
00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:00,720
British Airways across the road 
was living with her boyfriend. 

646
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:03,360
And the vicar said, oh, yeah, 
I'll marry you. 

647
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:07,280
And she's like, I'm serving as 
youth leader at your church and 

648
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,960
you're marrying my neighbours 
who never go to church. 

649
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,800
They don't really have anything 
to do with God, but they wanted 

650
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:14,840
the church wedding, but they 
were allowed to get married and 

651
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:16,800
we worked, which at the time 
hurt me. 

652
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:21,880
But looking back on it now, I 
think, wow, God actually closed 

653
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:26,720
that door and brought us out of 
that and into sort of promised 

654
00:44:26,720 --> 00:44:29,240
land, if you like. 
So yeah, that was a blessing. 

655
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:33,160
So I think whatever your mission
is, do it together, go to the 

656
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,240
same church together. 
So we didn't end up 1 going 

657
00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:40,120
Anglican, 1 going New Frontiers,
one moving to Manchester, one 

658
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:41,960
staying in Horsham. 
That's not marriage. 

659
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:46,000
You've got to do it together and
keep praying and asking God and 

660
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:51,160
Lord, you've got to help us. 
So when we moved to Liverpool 

661
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,480
again, God spoke to me first. 
But Charlotte got her own 

662
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:56,880
prayer. 
But Will answer the prayer. 

663
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,360
But we'll tell you about that. 
And it may be that being on a 

664
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,280
mission together may not mean 
you do identical things. 

665
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,680
It may be that being on a 
mission together for a 

666
00:45:05,720 --> 00:45:09,120
particular couple might mean 
that one of you is really into 

667
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:14,360
hospitality and pastoral work, 
say, and looking after those who

668
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,840
are struggling. 
And the other one of you is much

669
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:20,560
better at serving the church 
practically or helping with the 

670
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,840
PA or what. 
It doesn't mean you have to have

671
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:29,120
identical gifts, not at all. 
You can have completely separate

672
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:33,560
gifts but still be with those 
gifts moving forward together, 

673
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,360
moving forward together. 
So I hope that helps answer a 

674
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:36,640
bit.