1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,000 DJ, Firefighter, skateboarder, pilot. 2 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:08,119 No, this isn't a Mad Lips. This is the crossover episode. 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:10,840 You didn't. Know you needed make a nuclear 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:13,600 joint bill zerang of nuclear and their. 5 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:15,880 Podcast The Future of Nuclear to talk. 6 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:17,480 About everything from the purpose. 7 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:21,880 Of healthy hazing, like what's it going to do if I hang his 8 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:25,200 uniform up in the rafters? Is also a really good way to 9 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,600 like understand the people on your team. 10 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:33,440 To finding purpose in your work. It's one of the most endearing. 11 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:37,720 Like you really, you really fall in love with the machine and you 12 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:41,160 want that machine to run, You want that machine to be healthy 13 00:00:41,160 --> 00:00:43,080 and you want to come in every day to take care of that 14 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,280 machine. It really does mean something to 15 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:46,440 you. We talk. 16 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,040 About everything under the sun this episode, and we're hoping 17 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:54,160 you get a little bit more dimension behind the host, IE 18 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:55,960 the people who are always asking. 19 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,680 Questions. We hope you enjoyed this sit 20 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:03,040 down conversation between two of maybe the most eclectic voices 21 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,760 in Nuclear. Welcome to the future of Nuclear 22 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,400 and Naked Nuclear. It is a mash up. 23 00:01:09,960 --> 00:01:12,600 And so our conversation today is with a trained flight 24 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:16,560 instructor, a nuclear talent recruiter, the founder of 25 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,240 Syllable, getting its roots, helping first responders engage 26 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:21,920 in Spanish speakers in emergency situations. 27 00:01:22,320 --> 00:01:25,200 She studied at Princeton before becoming a firefighter and a 28 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:30,160 paramedic in Aurora Station 1. She's an aspiring astronaut, a 29 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:34,080 future Ted talker, a science and physics educator. 30 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:38,360 She has a personal mission to bring empathy into energy. 31 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,160 Yes, she has a favorite scientist. 32 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:44,040 Hello, Shannon. She's the IRA Glass of nuclear. 33 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:46,440 She's the crater and host of Naked Nuclear. 34 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:51,720 Welcome, Danielle Allen. Thank you so much, Phil. 35 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:53,240 And it was so funny when you were reading that. 36 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,280 I was like, I've done all that. Oh wow. 37 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,360 I literally have like the memory of a goldfish. 38 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,400 So what a fun intro and I love that we're doing this mash up 39 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,320 episode right now. Yes, it's gonna be awesome, I 40 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,440 think. I mean, I feel like we're 41 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,759 countered Spears to some degree where we both just kind of gone 42 00:02:09,759 --> 00:02:15,360 random directions, doing random things and just like, where can 43 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:16,960 we help and where does it take us? 44 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,200 And so I think we'll discover a lot more of that today is what 45 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,880 I'm looking forward to. I mean, just reported this. 46 00:02:22,920 --> 00:02:25,200 We were talking about the fact that you met your wife 47 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:27,240 Deejaying, and she was a DJ as well. 48 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:29,120 That's right. But phenomenal. 49 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:30,720 I was like this. That's so cool. 50 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:31,960 Yeah. There are just so many fun 51 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,000 Nuggets and drinkets just really trying to out here live very 52 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,640 interesting lives. And then just kind of also 53 00:02:37,640 --> 00:02:41,320 stumbled into nuclear a bit. Yeah, I listened to a lot of 54 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,640 your work, so I'm a fan. I follow the pod. 55 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,400 And one of the questions I wanted to jump in a little bit 56 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,320 too. You said something in one of 57 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:54,360 your interviews and it was actually related to your work on 58 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,960 when you were a firefighter on syllable on the the Spanish 59 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,200 tools to help in emergency situations. 60 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:04,360 And you had mentioned when you were going after funding that a 61 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,880 lot of the model you were presenting and the funding you 62 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:11,320 were requesting didn't kind of meet the standard VC, you know, 63 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,440 DECA, corn, you know, huge market. 64 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,680 And they didn't really understand the specific problem 65 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:22,400 you were solving or, or didn't really have awareness into the 66 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,920 kind of problem yet. All of the firefighters and 1st 67 00:03:25,920 --> 00:03:28,400 responders were like, Oh my God, yes, right. 68 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,880 It's hilarious because that is so identical to what we 69 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,120 experienced at nuclear with our journey. 70 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,280 And so when we talked to press or even when we were doing our 71 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:43,720 fundraising, we had a specific reaction around, wait, is that 72 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:47,360 really a problem in nuclear? Right, 'cause you talk about it 73 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,320 and make it nuclear, about how efficient nuclear is. 74 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:54,200 The fuel is so dense, it uses so little land compared to other 75 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,400 intermittent sources like wind and solar. 76 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,440 The waste can fill up. This can if you used it your 77 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,440 whole life, like all the things about how dense and efficient 78 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:07,160 nuclear is, but it's the least efficient when it comes to labor 79 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,880 administration, when it comes to bureaucracy, right? 80 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,560 And so we're trying to describe to folks that aren't familiar 81 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,240 with it, we solved this paperwork problem. 82 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:20,000 We solved this inefficiency in labor and process problem. 83 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,040 And we get that same look of like, is that really a problem? 84 00:04:24,280 --> 00:04:26,480 How hard can it be? And you're like right. 85 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,800 Then you talk to nuclear professionals and they're like 86 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:31,120 Oh my God, yes. I have had to do the same 87 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,200 research. I've had two keywords, search 88 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:38,000 fatigue and 1000 page FSR and I spent 4 hours straight until my 89 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,880 hand cramped up. When you're working with VCs and 90 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:42,840 you're trying to pitch them, you're trying to like bring them 91 00:04:42,840 --> 00:04:46,880 into the story, often times it's just a lived experience. 92 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,840 You got to live through the pain to understand why this is such a 93 00:04:50,840 --> 00:04:53,360 big problem. And you know, especially for the 94 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:55,600 nuclear side, I think like there's a lot of people who 95 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,680 lived through the pain of being like this is going to take 96 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:00,240 forever. I don't want to do this anymore. 97 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,320 I'm tired. I'm on my 17th cup of coffee. 98 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,360 That's not healthy. It's really difficult when 99 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,920 you're doing, you know, a 15 minute pitch or you have a sit 100 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:13,200 down meeting with investors to really bring up that flavor of 101 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,120 difficulty, the fun parts of raising money. 102 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:20,400 But also the really tricky part is especially for a lot more 103 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,800 niche industries like nuclear, there isn't really a lot of 104 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,840 outside eyeballs on the industry to know what the problems are. 105 00:05:27,840 --> 00:05:30,360 And that's one of the reasons I wanted to start Naked Nuclear, 106 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,240 so that people get more comfortable with nuclear topics 107 00:05:33,280 --> 00:05:36,240 in general. Yeah, the the the inefficiency 108 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,160 on the labor side is such a interesting problem that people 109 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:40,720 don't think about. And I think it was recession 110 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,560 with Firefighter X on her YouTube around like, hey, you're 111 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,640 a firefighter and now you're into nuclear. 112 00:05:46,840 --> 00:05:48,920 Why aren't you doing fire OPS at a nuclear plant? 113 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,880 Because it's super boring. They're just in case. 114 00:05:52,280 --> 00:05:56,000 I like to think that like I'm very altruistic in my actions 115 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,640 and I am sometimes, but most of the time it's because I'm 116 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:01,560 interested in it and it's really cool. 117 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,960 Like what are the real problems that we got going on? 118 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,240 I'm going to be real with my fire OPS folks right now. 119 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,960 When I was first stationed at Sequoia Plant, I was running 120 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,800 plant projects and then I went into the maintenance group and 121 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,400 hung out with fire OPS more than anybody. 122 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:20,200 That was my secret refuge if I needed to get away because they 123 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,560 had the best food. The cafeteria was one thing, but 124 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:27,520 fire OPS, they had a rotation. I knew who was bringing chili, 125 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,080 who was bringing Stew, who was having breakfast for dinner. 126 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:32,600 They adopted me. I mean, it may be boring from 127 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,840 they're not rushing up buildings on a regular basis or or 128 00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:39,160 catching babies, but they're fixing fire equipment and the 129 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,440 maintenance activities. Make sure those alarms are 130 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,320 working. One of my closest buddies, his 131 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:45,960 name was Topper. And so I don't know what it was 132 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,200 like in Station One, but at Sequoia, everybody had a 133 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,200 nickname, and your nickname was on your hard hat. 134 00:06:51,840 --> 00:06:54,200 And the guy I spent the most time with, his name was Topper. 135 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,520 And they called the Topper because no matter what story you 136 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:03,160 had, he would top it. There's always got to be one in 137 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:07,000 a Firehouse that was like, I see your ace and I raised you 2 138 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:08,200 aces. You're like OK buddy. 139 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:14,280 I was actually bestowing a nickname from a man on a call. 140 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,080 He wasn't actually involved in the call. 141 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,840 He said that I was looking like a Mango Thunder and I don't know 142 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,920 what that means, but my whole crew was like, all right, this 143 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:26,480 is now mango Thunder. And I think that's The funny 144 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,040 thing about the fire service and just the camaraderie as well. 145 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,080 A lot of people will come into like a station or Firehouse and 146 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,560 be like, they're cooking Mac and cheese in here. 147 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:37,680 What's going on? And so that's always the the 148 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:41,280 nice thing about the camaraderie that's baked in, but then also 149 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,200 just getting to know the people working and troubleshooting. 150 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:47,040 Were you the social butterfly at Sequoia? 151 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,960 I started corporate, you get hired in and then they figure 152 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,040 out best place for you. And I was doing projects across 153 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:53,520 the fleet. One of the big projects I had 154 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,440 was a security project. I had to work with the fire OPS 155 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,880 team and it had to do with barrier protections and some 156 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:01,440 surveillance equipment and some other things. 157 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:03,640 So I just kind of got to know those folks. 158 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,960 When I moved into a full time role at the plant, the, you 159 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,920 know, kind of gravitated to people I kind of knew a little 160 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,240 bit from my project work. And then it's like, hey, I'm 161 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:17,880 just one of the folks over here. Nice, it does feel cool like 162 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:19,640 they accepted me. I'm in. 163 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,280 Yeah, and so it was, it was a good refuge when I left the 164 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,640 project team and I went over to the maintenance side on the. 165 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,880 So there's hazing in every discipline. 166 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,160 On the project side, I worked a lot with modifications, 167 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,159 construction teams and the construction vendors, and there 168 00:08:34,159 --> 00:08:36,159 was quite a few pranks that went on. 169 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,799 I had my hard hat completely filled with ice with my safety 170 00:08:39,799 --> 00:08:42,559 glasses in the middle of it, but up with water frozen for me. 171 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:44,920 And then I had to go on a scavenger hunt to find it. 172 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,880 And so it was the mods construction lead that did that. 173 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,680 I got some PVC glue and filled his hard hat with that, put it 174 00:08:52,680 --> 00:08:56,520 out in the sun and it became a nice little Silly Putty ball. 175 00:08:57,840 --> 00:08:59,680 But you can still see his name on it, so that was fun. 176 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,880 The pranks level I think in all of these industries. 177 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,280 I worked at 1 station in particular, and we were 178 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,760 literally the prank house. It's almost like if you're not 179 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:11,720 being teased, you're like, oh, what's wrong with that guy? 180 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,040 You kind of got to be teased to get through it. 181 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,360 It's also just like knowing people's sense of humor. 182 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,000 It's also like a really good mini test for like when really 183 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,240 stressful things happen, how's this person going to react? 184 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,920 For me as a probe, it feels like, Oh my gosh, they're 185 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,240 teasing me. But then, you know, after I got 186 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,360 a couple years on the job, it's like you kind of have to test 187 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,000 and push people's boundaries and like, what's he going to do if I 188 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:37,920 hang his uniform up in the rafters? 189 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,240 How's it going to get it down? Let's see the problem solving. 190 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,560 I definitely have been known to play a few pranks here and 191 00:09:44,560 --> 00:09:46,440 there. But yeah, I think it's one of 192 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,720 those things that it's great to pass the time, but it's also a 193 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,760 really good way to like understand the people on your 194 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:53,000 team. Yeah. 195 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:58,040 And when you can navigate inside a nuclear environment or in a 196 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,240 city environment to following all the procedures, you're not 197 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:02,800 breaking any rules, you're not breaking any laws. 198 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,000 You're, you know, adhering to the MSDS sheet. 199 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,840 You know, I only use it on PVC materials, right? 200 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:11,640 And if you can follow all the rules, not go outside 201 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,080 boundaries, not put anybody at risk and not put anybody in 202 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,680 harm's way or do anything harmful or hateful to anyone, 203 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,960 you can still pull off something funny like that is a good test 204 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:24,440 of of your judgement, your patients. 205 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:26,880 And I think it's really important, especially when 206 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:31,080 you're the new person, to show that you're willing to take it 207 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:32,960 right. A lot of times in the trades, 208 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,440 we'll call it, you know, can does he push as hard as he pulls 209 00:10:36,560 --> 00:10:39,240 or the other way around, right, pull his own weight as hard as 210 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,320 he barks at others and pushes other people. 211 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,920 And so it definitely found that that camaraderie and, and the 212 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,640 willingness to to know when someone's pushing your 213 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:50,720 boundaries and to let them and to go with it. 214 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,240 Like I had my mid shift supervisor tell me he's like 215 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:58,000 when the new Superintendent comes in, he has to buy BBQ for, 216 00:10:58,240 --> 00:10:59,400 you know, the whole evening shift. 217 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,600 I was like, of course he does. So I, you know, brought in BBQ 218 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:04,080 the next day and he's like, you know, just kidding. 219 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,440 I'm like, no, you weren't. Yeah, It's like you were joking, 220 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,360 but we're serious. Like, we're joking, but we're 221 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:10,160 also serious. Yeah. 222 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:14,520 And a lot of the trades and fire, a lot of it is almost akin 223 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:16,960 to, like being on a sports team. Like you really have to get 224 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,360 feedback. This is just essentially all a 225 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,640 part of that feedback loop. It's all very information 226 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:24,520 driven. And I think a lot of times for 227 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:28,720 newcomers into these industries, it is overwhelming at times 228 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:30,120 because you are kind of intimidated. 229 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,800 Like especially if you got, you know, a Gray haired guy, he's 230 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,120 been on the job for 30 years in the fire service. 231 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,280 We've got more time on the toilet than you've got in the 232 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:40,680 whole service and it can be intimidating. 233 00:11:40,680 --> 00:11:45,240 The nice thing is being able to navigate that as a newcomer. 234 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:46,920 It's essentially all very mapped out. 235 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,040 You know what's going to happen, you can almost expect it when 236 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,600 people are serious with you and be like, hey, we actually can't 237 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,200 do that. That's when you're kind of 238 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,600 seeing that person. They can adjust and mold to the 239 00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,440 protocols we have in hand. And I think that's one of the 240 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,920 major things with the nuclear side. 241 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,520 The protocols are very, very, you know, we have to stick to 242 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:09,520 them regularly on the fireside. It's like, hey, you were doing 243 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:11,360 this because these are the steps you need to do to save 244 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:15,080 somebody's life. If you don't do them, you might 245 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,200 not save their life, and I think that's really important. 246 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,520 At the end of the day, the people who work in these 247 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:24,840 industries can keep on the horizon the real risks of having 248 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:26,600 a bad day. What does a bad day look like? 249 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,200 I think that's all. Also, the nice thing about the 250 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,080 pranks and the jokes, how people are brought up into these 251 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,160 industries, It's kind of serious and sometimes a little bit 252 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:40,000 boring if you don't bring in some of that humor one. 253 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,080 Of the corollaries I've always drawn is. 254 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:47,880 I always thought there should be a television show around nuclear 255 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:52,920 operations, and I actually know a few people in the world right 256 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:57,200 now are exploring those things. So I'm very optimistic that that 257 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,840 will come true. But things like refueling 258 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:03,560 outages have their whole own novella of drama. 259 00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:06,080 It's like, but you could end on a climax. 260 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,680 It's like, oh, they just discovered this in the turbine. 261 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:10,720 How are they going to recover schedule? 262 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,880 What are they going to be? Here's the drama with this crew 263 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:14,760 and you know. Like. 264 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:17,880 You have that in the home builder shows where they have 265 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:19,920 schedule, pressure, time and constraints. 266 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:20,920 How are they going to work through it? 267 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:23,840 You have it in the Firehouse. It's like the office, but the 268 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:25,800 backdrop is a nuclear refilling outage. 269 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,760 We did like a Women's History Month series at the beginning of 270 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,080 this year. One of the folks that we had on, 271 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,000 she was a project engineer, became a project manager, and it 272 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,160 was really the episode, it was about those changes. 273 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:40,760 One of the really fun things about the conversation was like 274 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:42,440 outage season. What does that look like? 275 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,160 And she's like, it can get pretty high stakes. 276 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,400 You're called people up at 2:00 AM like, hey, this thing broke. 277 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,480 We've got to send somebody on a plane, get on a train, whatever 278 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,560 form of transportation. It's like a unicycle if you need 279 00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:55,880 to, but you got to get there. And I'm like, man, that would be 280 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,080 so great for television because I think often times there's so 281 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,800 many people within the public that if you ask them, hey, can 282 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:03,440 you like, picture a nuclear power plant? 283 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,840 Almost always the only thing they're going to bring up is 284 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,200 nuclear cooling towers. But there's so much more 285 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,520 happening within a power plant that I'm like, oh, my gosh, it 286 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:13,200 would make for such great television. 287 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,280 Also, my personal thought, we have way too many fire shows, 288 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:20,200 and most of them are bad. I think television deserves a 289 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,960 nuclear outage feeling drama because, yeah, there's too many 290 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,000 fire shows. We need some new content. 291 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,040 Yeah, have you ever spent $50,000 on a single roll of 292 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:30,200 tape? I have. 293 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,400 There are just so many things that you could definitely just 294 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:37,480 wow the general public with. Private jet just for a roll of 295 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,640 tape. Manufacturing line spun up just 296 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,560 for one roll of tape. It gets expensive. 297 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,040 Gets expensive. I had a conversation 298 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:49,640 specifically about the Inc and the fact that some of these 299 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,480 pieces of equipment are obsolete and like what do you do if 300 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,560 nobody makes them anymore? You know, like, well, you got to 301 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:58,520 get creative and the levels of creativity found within kind of 302 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,800 this whole subculture of, you know, keeping these power plans 303 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,040 up and running. I was like, this should be a 304 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,560 show in and of itself. This is an incredible even maybe 305 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,360 a graphic novel. Like, I don't, I don't know, I'm 306 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,520 creative. I'm not that artistic though. 307 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:15,000 So maybe just stick figures running around with the tools 308 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:16,360 we'd kind of chatted about before. 309 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:20,680 It's just how do we like bring to the attention of the general 310 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,240 public all of the the really interesting things that are 311 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:24,880 happening within the nuclear space. 312 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,880 And especially when we're like, hey, we need workforce, we need 313 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:29,840 this, we need that. Do you think we need to do a 314 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,200 retrofit or do you think we need to just market it different? 315 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,560 Like so for example, when I got into the nuclear industry, going 316 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,400 around with the plants, looking around, it's like, Oh my God, 317 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,320 everything's so dated. It's like a 20 year old kitchen. 318 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,240 You're like, oh, I just want to RIP this out, put a new kitchen 319 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:43,720 in. But if you go back far enough, 320 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,680 it's vintage, it's retro, it's cool. 321 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,880 Yeah, the kids are wearing 90s clothes again, so I'm pretty 322 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:52,120 sure we're fine. They're going to go in. 323 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:53,760 They're like, oh, wow, this is really cool. 324 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:56,960 It's like a time capsule. I was watching a group of high 325 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:01,000 schoolers enter the grocery store the other day and 90s 326 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,760 grunge is back. I wonder if some of the kids 327 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:09,240 feel the same, if that would be just as interesting to get into 328 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:13,160 working with a nuclear operator to see how they're actually 329 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:20,240 operating. 3 dimensional tactile controls, that's how we operate 330 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,400 the plant. So you just you just got to come 331 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:26,000 up with the right branding. It's state-of-the-art analog 332 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,280 equipment. You can't just get that 333 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:29,040 anywhere. State-of-the-art analog. 334 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:33,240 Yeah, I like that. How do you attract talent into 335 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,480 the nuclear industry when it's not the most state-of-the-art 336 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,920 technology anymore? Yeah, I think it's interesting 337 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:44,080 in terms of just what the kids are interested in these days. 338 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:46,480 A lot of it is generally just the environment. 339 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:50,040 I'm a really big bird nerd. I was listening to a birding 340 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:54,320 podcast the other day. It was fascinating because on 341 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:58,440 the podcast it was a lady who was like, let me go out and do 342 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:00,680 birding with the kids. What are the kids interested in? 343 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,160 And of course, they were really interested in all the different 344 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:04,599 birds. And one of the things she said 345 00:17:04,599 --> 00:17:08,760 was devastating. This 7 year old was at the pond 346 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,000 with them and she's like, this is not going to be here very 347 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,440 long. I was taking a climate class and 348 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,640 it sounds like we're going in the wrong direction. 349 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,040 The lady of the podcast is also like, oh, the younger 350 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:23,119 generations are having this very wide awareness of the 351 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,040 microclimate catastrophes that are happening within these 352 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:27,800 little pockets of the world we live in. 353 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:32,360 And so I think that's one of the reasons why the nuclear is 354 00:17:32,360 --> 00:17:34,040 actually starting to sell itself a bit. 355 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,520 I think it's the culture. The nuclear culture is what the 356 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:42,760 kids aren't super sure about. The idea that nuclear is the 357 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,240 best for the environment where, you know, low carbon emissions 358 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,840 is pretty straightforward. But it's like, OK, the paperwork 359 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,800 and the kind of the bureaucracy and how slow and how attention 360 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,560 details we're having, that's all the other type that I think it 361 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:57,160 is. You kind of have to sell the 362 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,480 kids on. I can see that the amount of 363 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,920 paperwork in nuclear is what we built our whole business on. 364 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,800 So it is real. It's no joke. 365 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:09,800 As technology, it's more widely adopted as we continue to to 366 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,040 grow and improve on the AI space and the tech space that that 367 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,920 burden of monotony, you know, quickly evaporates and you get 368 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,680 to do more interesting. That's a problem solving. 369 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,000 That part's great. I think it's definitely 370 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,480 interesting the perspectives my generation had the backdrop of 371 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,120 the Cold War and we're going to get naked out of existence with 372 00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:31,320 bombs. And so we I probably won't live 373 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:35,960 to 30 anyway as a 12 year old, 15 year old versus climate 374 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:37,960 change is going to destroy the planet and we're all going to 375 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:39,920 die and we're going to use up our resources and kill the 376 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:41,680 planet. Every generations had their 377 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:46,080 backdrop of disaster and, and, and this generations kind of 378 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,720 taking it seriously and bit of anxiety based or you know, 379 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,560 consternation based, whereas maybe it was just my bubble, but 380 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:57,440 it felt like my generation took it as well. 381 00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,200 We're all going to die anyway. Let's party it up. 382 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:04,160 What are you going to do? I think a little bit more of it 383 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,560 is really in terms of I was having a conversation 384 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,520 specifically about the nuclear industry to recruit people into 385 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,280 it, but also to retain them, that retention piece. 386 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,440 I think any I was looking at workforce development research 387 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,280 that they were doing and they're showing like that one to 10 year 388 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,560 gap is where they're like they have the highest attrition rate. 389 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,440 I was like, well, why? What's going on there? 390 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,240 The expectations you get recruited into the industry was 391 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,000 are not necessarily the same ones that will keep you to stay 392 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,120 keeping everything in terms of, you know, hey, like, you know, 393 00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:38,840 we got state state-of-the-art analog. 394 00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:42,000 I think that's fine. But I think the other part of it 395 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,800 is the nuclear culture required to keep these plants running, 396 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,840 the attention to detail, getting kids more excited, shifting the 397 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,280 culture through technology that might help. 398 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,920 Nuclear is already attracting young folks, but it's the 399 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,080 retention part of how do you retain some of these kiddos? 400 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,360 And I think a lot of it is just they're so used to a very 401 00:20:02,360 --> 00:20:07,320 fast-paced world anyway, and nuclear is not necessarily that 402 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:11,160 way all the time. Yeah, I think it was Tory Bage 403 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,880 gave me a stat from NAYGN, some studies they did and I'll 404 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,960 probably get this wrong. There was a large number that 405 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,000 within the first five years they leave nuclear. 406 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,400 I want to see this 25%. I could have been north of that. 407 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,760 And so there was that retention. It was a challenge and it's just 408 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,480 not you think nuclear And there's a couple folks that that 409 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,000 we've had on the podcast that got a nuclear engineering degree 410 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,960 specifically because they wanted to go in the nuclear and there's 411 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,760 just not very good knowledge of all the other ways you can go 412 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:40,840 into nuclear. You're doing a great job 413 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:42,880 promoting that. I'm not just an engineer, I'm a 414 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:44,960 nuclear engineer. It's like, you know, it sounds 415 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,840 super awesome when you talk outside of your circles, right? 416 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,200 Another side job I had back in the day was I was also a 417 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,560 diversity instructor on the side and that's some really cool 418 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,800 people there. One of the big focus areas is 419 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,200 recruit, retain, develop and on the recruit and retain side you 420 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,760 need to make things welcoming. One of the larger utilities I 421 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,200 worked at, and I won't say their name, I went through their two 422 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,360 week onboarding orientation process. 423 00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:14,560 They have a great name for it and it's all branded and they do 424 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:15,880 a great job. And I went through that whole 425 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:20,520 process, got on the job and I ran in like 2 months later to my 426 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,440 my instructor that did all my onboarding and you know, how's 427 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:24,720 it going? What was the name of that 428 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,080 company you were telling me about? 429 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:30,440 I really want to work there. Yeah, right. 430 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,320 Because where I work is nothing like what you told me about. 431 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,520 And I think it's the bait and switch a little bit. 432 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,920 Like I feel icky a little bit. Who's one of the books that I 433 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,880 really enjoy. I've reread it like probably a 434 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,640 dozen Times Now. It's called Corruptible by Brian 435 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:53,080 Class and it looks at like what creates A corrupted system or a 436 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,000 corrupt system. And a lot of it was just like 437 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,080 how you recruit like and who you're recruiting and 438 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,360 essentially the system you create when trying to retain 439 00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:03,560 people. This is not a shot at doctors. 440 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,120 All the people in my family are doctors, My mom and dad, my 441 00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:07,960 aunt, my uncle. One of the things that they were 442 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:13,200 showing is doctors, lawyers and police officers, according to 443 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,600 this book, have some of the highest the rates of sociopaths, 444 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:19,640 especially surgeons. I love telling my mom that I'm 445 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:26,040 like, but within the book, it's not that, you know, like all 446 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,360 doctors are sociopaths. It's just the way that you 447 00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:32,480 recruit and and the the the environment you create in 448 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,600 medical school for people to survive, you have to be 449 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,080 cutthroat. She would tell me about opening 450 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,880 up her books at Columbia Med School and they were all blacked 451 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,480 out. People had redacted the books. 452 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,360 And this is like in the 80s. So like, there's no like going 453 00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:48,520 on to the Internet to like beep, boop, beep boop. 454 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,960 And so I think that was one of the things that was like 455 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,480 fascinating to me is just like, Oh yeah, the environment that 456 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,920 and how you recruit and the environment you place people in 457 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,840 once you've recruited them is very important to kind of the 458 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,200 types of people that you're going to be producing within an 459 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,880 industry itself. It's fascinating. 460 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:07,680 So, so I'm second generation nuclear. 461 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,840 My dad was in nuclear his whole career and he moved up pretty 462 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:12,000 high. And one time I asked him, I'm 463 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,920 like, how come you keep having to meet with psychologists? 464 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,560 And, and, and so I actually talked to one of the nuclear 465 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,120 psychologists and found out the answer. 466 00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:22,600 One of the tests you have to take for your background check 467 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,200 is the MMPI exam. It's like a 300 question test to 468 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,160 ask you a bunch of questions often over and over again and 469 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,000 different phraseologies over random things like would you 470 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,880 rather hold a gun or a flower? You know, how angry are you with 471 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:37,600 your mom? You know, like just all kinds of 472 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,280 different questions. And you're scored on a bell 473 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:42,360 curve. There's no right or wrong 474 00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:46,440 answer, but there are answers that are less normal for your 475 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,560 demographic, your age, your, your sex, your gender, whatever. 476 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,120 And so the whole idea is as long as you're within the certain 477 00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:58,040 range of the bell curve, then your profile doesn't generate 478 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,840 any flags. And a psychologist told me most 479 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,040 of the executives are outside of the bell curve. 480 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,760 So to get to a certain level and a utility, you have to be a 481 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:09,480 little bit something for. Sure. 482 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,960 And so I can imagine being a surgeon, especially a plastic 483 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,520 surgeon in a worn torn area who would definitely put you outside 484 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,560 of the. And the ingredients to that 485 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:22,400 cake. Yep. 486 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,800 I think that's the interesting thing to me. 487 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,800 A lot of the thesis of this book is trying to avoid corrupt 488 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,160 systems. But really any system that 489 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,200 you're designing for a large group of people is, you know, 490 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,440 how do you recruit and how, what, what's the environment 491 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,920 that you put them in? Do you value transparency? 492 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,120 How does work ethic happen? How do you correct people? 493 00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:44,840 I think that was a really big one for me when I was a 494 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,360 paramedic instructor. I would make sure that all of my 495 00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:50,800 students and all just, you know, people that we worked with, I'm 496 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,200 like, hey, it's you're going to mess up. 497 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,040 Like there's just, there's too many variables in the calls 498 00:24:58,040 --> 00:24:59,680 we're running. You're not going to know of 499 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:00,760 everything you're going to mess up. 500 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,800 The fact of the matter is you do have to own up to it. 501 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,560 There has to be a level of accountability. 502 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,000 The problem is when you mess up and then you're like, oh, I 503 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,040 messed up. Let me try to cover that up so 504 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,080 that nobody sees it. I'm like, people are going to 505 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,240 see it as we're creating these environments of accountability 506 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,240 and transparency. And so I think that's definitely 507 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,600 something that takes a lot of humility and a lot of that 508 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,760 culture shift within any industry to be like, hey, this 509 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:26,440 is how we're going to start changing. 510 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,840 And hopefully through that, you see those attrition rates 511 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,560 change, you see people being retained because they know the 512 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,760 environment is fair. Yeah, you need a different 513 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,040 strategy for each kind of location because nuclear is that 514 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,920 high risk scary, but at the same time, like really not. 515 00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:46,320 And it it's one of the most endearing. 516 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,040 I felt like I had a relationship with the equipment. 517 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:54,320 Like you really, you really fall in love with the machine and you 518 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,800 want that machine to run, You want that machine to be healthy 519 00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,680 and you want to come in every day to take care of that 520 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,920 machine. It really does mean something to 521 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,760 you and it means something to it's, it's very different being 522 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,400 at the plant around the equipment, getting opportunities 523 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,920 to work night shift with people and bond over very specific high 524 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:19,560 intensity, you know, jobs and, and just having that like 525 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,080 everybody there, you all know what the priority is. 526 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,920 It's get the unit back online, It's get through the schedule 527 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,680 for your shift. It's like you're, you're very 528 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,200 aligned and you have something so tangible that you can just, 529 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,760 you know, step outside and see like there it is. 530 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:38,680 There's this giant humming thing that I am actively making better 531 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,000 right now. And it's so tangible, you know, 532 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,800 feeding millions of people their energy needs, recharging their 533 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,800 phones and C pap machines, all of the important things that 534 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,520 that need to happen, right? And so you really feel that 535 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,760 tangible connection. And it's, it's I think much 536 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,560 harder if you come out of school, go into a corporate job 537 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,120 and you're in a design engineering, in a cube farm in a 538 00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:06,480 corporate office doing work for a plant, but you're not at the 539 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,080 plant. You don't spend enough time 540 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,120 going to visit it, getting to know the people there. 541 00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:14,120 You don't form that connection. That's going to be a totally 542 00:27:14,120 --> 00:27:18,120 different retention, a totally different experience than than 543 00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:21,720 really taking the time. And I want to make sure we paint 544 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:23,880 the right picture here because you know, we're talking about 545 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,160 high risk and its nuclear and it's scary, but it really isn't. 546 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,520 Nuclear, like aviation has an incredible defense in depth. 547 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,960 And so when you're talking about that accountability and that 548 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,320 transparency and take ownership of your actions, so much effort 549 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,720 over the decades has gone into nuclear's not that old. 550 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,720 Five years until this century. Like we're almost there. 551 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,000 Yeah, fair enough. But there's so much work and 552 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,480 effort that's gone into making mistakes inconsequential. 553 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,840 And so we putting the barriers, will we have the right barriers, 554 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,160 the right defense in depth, the right engineered solutions, the 555 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,320 right processes, human performance tools, the right 556 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,160 thing. So when they do make a mistake, 557 00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:02,320 it's not consequential, it's not going to hurt anyone, it's not 558 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,640 going to damage anything. It's going to be a shot on goal. 559 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,840 It's not going to be a disaster. There's such a separation 560 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:13,320 between doing very heady work all day versus being at a plant 561 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,920 and being able to like boots on the ground, seeing things. 562 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,360 And I think a lot of the things that are super funny to me is a 563 00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:22,120 lot of the interviews that I've been having and just kind of 564 00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:26,920 learning from people is a lot of their experiences become really 565 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,680 kind of clearly colored the first time they visit a plant or 566 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,800 an Information Center or their first shift. 567 00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:35,880 Like when you get immersed in the world and you're not kind of 568 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,360 just like in an office cubicle. So I think that's another thing 569 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:43,080 is like you actually have the evidence and the experience in 570 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,280 front of you to be like, wow, this is something bigger than 571 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,040 myself. Your purpose isn't like 1 of 572 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,080 questionable. Like you're not like, what does 573 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,200 this even matter? I think that's one of those 574 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,080 things, you know, we're kind of joking about a nuclear TV show, 575 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,640 but for people to be able to see that connection and correlation 576 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,760 of purpose like so evidently. One thing I haven't heard you 577 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,160 talk about is the three jobs. Every plant worker has three 578 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,000 jobs. What you don't realize about the 579 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,160 three jobs is it gives you the opportunity to grow your 580 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:10,480 network. It gives you the opportunity to 581 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:11,760 do something a little bit different. 582 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,320 It gives you the opportunity to learn so much more about people 583 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,560 around you and all successful people in the work environment, 584 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,720 they know it's not always what you can do, it's who you know. 585 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,000 A lot of times that's used negatively, like, oh, you're 586 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,600 getting special favors, but really it's about how do I work 587 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,520 through other people and how do I navigate to get the results 588 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,800 and leverage the strengths and folks in my relationships? 589 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,040 Those employees are always very successful because they're able 590 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:38,400 to leverage the whole organization. 591 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,120 One of the great things that nuclear has built in for the 592 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,160 folks that don't know, is you have your normal job, whatever 593 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,880 that is. You can be AD Connor, an RP 594 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,040 tech, the welder, a mechanic, an engineer, but then you have an 595 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,360 outage job and that can be totally different, right? 596 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:57,080 I know IT folks that their day job is taking care of technology 597 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,880 systems and their outage job is lower containment coordinator. 598 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,480 They're climbing over equipment, organizing and making sure 599 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,600 nobody steps in water that they're not supposed to step. 600 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,400 And they do that for 30 days, right? 601 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,480 And they meet totally different people. 602 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,320 And now all of those people know an IT person. 603 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,000 And it's great for those people, too. 604 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,560 Yeah, right. Your emergency preparedness job. 605 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,480 And so that's the job that you get put on a certain rotation 606 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,880 and you get to be on call for that rotation. 607 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,320 You get to participate in emergency drills. 608 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,640 And we're going to pretend there's some scenario with the 609 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,880 plant, this is a drill, this is a drill, yada, yada, yada is 610 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,160 happening. And you've got a job. 611 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,440 My first EP job was a dose assessor. 612 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,640 I got to meet meteorologists. I got to talk to folks in this 613 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,760 state. My job was every 15 minutes give 614 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:52,120 out a recommendation on where to evacuate, you know, and then and 615 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,960 so do you get so you get to meet a totally different people. 616 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,280 Like like it's a super. I learned so much about weather. 617 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,360 I learned about weather when I first started getting into 618 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,880 aviation and I was like, wow, I did not know. 619 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:05,440 I didn't know so much about weather. 620 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,600 And now I know so much about weather. 621 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,880 I think the nice thing is it allows the different parts of 622 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,600 your brain get worked and scratched in different ways. 623 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,000 You're like, oh, wow, this is actually really interesting for 624 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:17,960 for myself. I'm yeah, I would like to see 625 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,120 like a lifelong learner. I always like meeting those 87 626 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,440 year olds at conferences that are like, I'm just here to learn 627 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,200 something new. And I'm like, of course you are. 628 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,840 You are so cute because I always find it so fascinating just to 629 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,240 learn how people are doing things that I think nuclear does 630 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,400 allow for just so many different perspectives to learn from. 631 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,200 That might be another cool selling point that we should 632 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,600 hype up a little more. People are multi dimensional. 633 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:43,280 I learned that you were a skateboarder. 634 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,920 So I was like, that's cool. I like to longboard. 635 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:47,680 I'm I'm really not good at skateboarding. 636 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,760 That's the holistic nature of nuclear that we also probably 637 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,200 should talk about more to let people kind of understand like, 638 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,000 hey, there's there's a lot of different ways that you can kind 639 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,440 of get your fix, especially if you like climbing on things. 640 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,880 Then that's a whole whole thing you can do, yeah. 641 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,480 I don't want to give myself too much credit on skateboarding 642 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,440 because I did skate competitively across the 643 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:12,240 Southeast when I was in high school, but I grew up all over 644 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,120 the place, anywhere there was a nuclear plant being built for 645 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,240 the most part. And so I got into skateboarding 646 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,800 while Palo Verde Unit 3 was being built and restarted. 647 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,280 And there was a lot of West Coast skateboard influence in 648 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,120 West Phoenix and central Phoenix during that time. 649 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,520 And then I moved to Browns Ferry construction and and start up 650 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,200 and rural Alabama had a very different scene than the West 651 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,760 Coast, Phoenix being fairly average to being fairly advanced 652 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,200 just by relocating. And so yeah, I was able to hop 653 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:42,480 out on the scene. So they say. 654 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,160 Nice different size pond big fish. 655 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,160 Now, that's right, I think we're hitting on something here for 656 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,760 your recruiting. You know, you've got retro, 657 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:56,040 state-of-the-art analog, 3 dimensional tactile experience 658 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,800 and you get 3 jobs in one. I can say no to that. 659 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,760 And I think it's perfect because I'm finding that the younger 660 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:08,240 kids, I mean, I'm going back to school currently for nuclear and 661 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,720 it's always humbling to work with 19 year olds. 662 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,600 One of the interesting things is that kids have access to 663 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,160 everything nowadays. They really do like have access 664 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,560 to all of the things in every dimension that you can think of. 665 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,760 And they get bored very easily. And I think it's just because 666 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,240 there's just an abundance of everything in every direction. 667 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,200 But I think the nice thing is nuclear provides very clear 668 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,240 boundaries. I think a lot of the times 669 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,720 sometimes corporate work, you kind of, we kind of drift as to 670 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,640 like what you're supposed to be doing purpose and what you know, 671 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,920 the rules are. But nuclear is a very clear 672 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:40,720 boundary. But within that boundary there 673 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,480 is so much richness. Like I know you feel really cool 674 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,440 with your cell phone and you can do 18,000 things with it, but 675 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,440 welcome to analog world. The history behind nuclear as 676 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:55,080 well is, is that's the other fun thing about to me, being able to 677 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,600 see how operators are working and just what a plant looks like 678 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,000 and who built it. Because you get that sense of 679 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,680 people have come before for me and they will come after me. 680 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:05,120 I think that's the fun part as well. 681 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:07,800 Yeah, and some of the technologies blows their mind 682 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,600 because they're so used to electronics, electricity powered 683 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:12,560 things, right. And it's like, no, this is a 684 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,560 steam, you know, a steam driven turbine, you know, and they're 685 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,480 like, what do you mean? I'm like, well, it's there to 686 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,080 cool water, but it can't. So the water gets really hot and 687 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,800 it turns into steam and then the steam goes through this pipe and 688 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,400 then it spins A turbine that turns the pump that then pumps 689 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,280 the water and self cools it back down again. 690 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:34,320 They're like what's? Yeah, like on pressure gauge, 691 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,320 like the idea of a pressure gauge to them, they're like, 692 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,520 you're like, oh, he's a sweet summer child. 693 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,280 It's great because we just finished up an episode. 694 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,239 We're doing a series called Who to Follow a Nuclear, and we had 695 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,320 Nick Taran on it. We'll be releasing that. 696 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,360 We were talking about all of the historical videos that he 697 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:54,320 digitizes and puts on YouTube. Problem solving the way these 698 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,800 engineers were thinking to me is mind blowing. 699 00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,960 I'm also burning podcasts and then watching digitized versions 700 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:02,720 of nuclear power plants in the 50s. 701 00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:05,480 Like, those are my jam. But the way in which 702 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,600 historically they are able to solve problems without all the 703 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,560 technology in the world is fascinating. 704 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,160 It has created a different engineer then and now and kind 705 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,680 of taking some of these kids and throwing them back into the then 706 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,320 to be like, here is how we've started. 707 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,680 This is the history of it. These are the fundamental 708 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,520 concepts of engineering that work. 709 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,680 I think that's really fun, somewhat humbling for a lot of 710 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,320 them because you can't just like essentially just like Google it 711 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,080 and like understand immediately how some of these very technical 712 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,760 systems work. Yeah, there weren't computers. 713 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,840 My dad told me the story once about Brownsphere or Palo Verde 714 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:41,880 during restart. And I should know this because 715 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,600 one's AP WR1's a PWR. So it's probably obvious to most 716 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,400 of the folks that listen to this, that know these things. 717 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,920 He was a control room engineer at the time and his job was to, 718 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,560 maybe it was his job was to calculate a lot of the physics 719 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,760 that was happening, understanding rod placement, 720 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,400 manually controlling rods. They're managing the machine 721 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,520 and, and the reaction of what's going on in the core and their 722 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,280 readings are getting back on. The analog systems don't make 723 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,240 any sense. He keeps doing things looking at 724 00:36:09,240 --> 00:36:13,440 all the gauges and he's got his literally slide rule and he's 725 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:18,720 doing hand calculations, hand physics calculations, like on 726 00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:22,800 giant piece of paper trying to calculate out why are we were 727 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,440 make we're taking this action and we're getting a result that 728 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,680 doesn't make sense. It's unexpected. 729 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,800 And so it should power level should be going to this heat 730 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,560 pressure, whatever should this should be happening that's 731 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,160 happening, what's going on? And he's trying to figure it 732 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,600 out. And he realized when they 733 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,600 labeled the original installation of the rod 734 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:46,320 placement indicators that were backwards, and so he had to move 735 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,080 like the inverse rods and everything made sense. 736 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,280 And he had to figure all of that out with hand calculations while 737 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,200 you're controlling the reactor. Holy moly, ain't no way. 738 00:36:58,480 --> 00:36:59,800 Like for me, it would not be a good day. 739 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,560 I'd probably start crying. That is amazing. 740 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,640 It's one of those things that like you physically know the 741 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,880 math and the physics to be able to like see that and be like, 742 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:13,120 wait a minute, let's change that. 743 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,080 Any time I talk to the young folk, I'm always telling them to 744 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,480 look into nuclear history because I think there's a lot of 745 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,440 hype of like, we just learned how to do this. 746 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:26,360 Or, you know, these are advanced reactors and and there's kind of 747 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,720 seems to be like a little bit of a myopic understanding of the 748 00:37:29,720 --> 00:37:31,480 technologies we're creating right now. 749 00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:36,320 But meanwhile, some guy in a lab in the 1963 was like actually a 750 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,840 bleep, bloop, bloop. And I think that's the fun part 751 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,440 about going through these digitized documents, just to see 752 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,720 the way in which these engineers were thinking. 753 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,080 And that can be so helpful for younger generations and even 754 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,000 folks in the industry right now just to know like, hey, hand 755 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,560 calculations, that was the thing. 756 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,800 What were the most surprising things to you about the industry 757 00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,560 as you started to get closer to it? 758 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,280 What stood out for you? Definitely the safety culture 759 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,600 for sure. I think one of the things that 760 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:06,880 I'm, I'm really interested in workforce because something 761 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,680 that's happened kind of within the aviation industry recently 762 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,360 is the fact that there's no hiring for a while. 763 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,400 And then all of a sudden they're like, we have to hire hundreds 764 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,960 of pilots. My first flight school lessons 765 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,000 were taught by somebody who was younger than me. 766 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,920 This is weird because I came into firefighting and I had a 767 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,240 guy with like Gray hair that's like, who are you? 768 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,920 I'm like, Oh my gosh. And the dynamic was just so 769 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:32,600 weird. I'm like, this feels like a 770 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:37,120 young industry with nuclear, the safety element, the safety 771 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,360 aspect. Culturally, I think it was very 772 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,840 different between aviation and fire as well. 773 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,200 But I would say that would be the first one that stood out. 774 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:46,920 I literally had people being like, you're kind of an 775 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,880 adrenaline junkie is like is do you think nuclear is that 776 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:51,720 actually for you? And I was like, I could do 777 00:38:51,720 --> 00:38:53,720 adrenaline stuff outside of work. 778 00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:55,800 I think that'd be #1 safety culture. 779 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,480 OK. What do you think of the 780 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,880 community with the nuclear? It's fantastic. 781 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,440 What was really funny is I moved to North Carolina, did flight 782 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,880 school and I was like, all right, got to do this fun 783 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,440 astronaut journey. I'm going to find a major to do 784 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:13,160 science wise. That's kind of why I fell into 785 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,000 nuclear. The first person I emailed was 786 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,240 Lisa Marshall at NC State and I was like, why? 787 00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:21,960 I'm firefighter. I want be nuclear engineer help. 788 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,040 She comes back with like these resources. 789 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,800 We do a one-on-one. I was like, I feel warm and 790 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:28,920 fuzzy inside. This is so delightful. 791 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,640 And it's just been so funny. Like over time, like we won't 792 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,600 even coordinate our schedule and we'll just end up in the same 793 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,680 place at the same time. And I'm like, oh, hey. 794 00:39:37,720 --> 00:39:41,240 And she's like, oh, hey, I've had that experience with so many 795 00:39:41,240 --> 00:39:43,200 different people within the nuclear industry. 796 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,800 Like I, I from the podcasting perspective, it's always easy to 797 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,480 get guests and like, hi, can you talk to me about your very 798 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,760 technical thing that you're working on and your research? 799 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:53,800 That seems cool to me. And they're like, I was wishing 800 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,560 somebody would ask and I think it helped me keep going. 801 00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,880 There's so many different people that are doing really cool, 802 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,160 interesting research and they just want to share it with 803 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:02,880 somebody. The whole industry is very 804 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,400 rewarding in that regard. The community aspect is really 805 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,720 top notch. Lisa's great. 806 00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:12,080 We had her on the podcast earlier this year, NC states, 807 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,160 where my dad got his nuclear engineering degree. 808 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:15,840 I was very young when I lived in Raleigh. 809 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:17,040 It's. Changed just a bit here. 810 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:19,720 Yeah, no, it's been great. I've never been able to put the 811 00:40:19,720 --> 00:40:21,440 right phraseology of the word on it. 812 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:23,800 But the nuclear has its insider community, right? 813 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,000 It has it's it's more important and there's more gravitas than 814 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,480 to call it a club. Halt isn't quite the right 815 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,000 phrase. Yeah, it's a little closer, but 816 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,120 yeah, it's definitely. Maybe a fandom? 817 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,480 There you go. And yeah, the fandom's growing. 818 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:42,960 It's almost been almost the opposite. 819 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:47,920 It's like this martyrdom of I work at the utility every, and 820 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,600 even more so I work at the nuclear plant. 821 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,320 Everyone hates me, the press hates me, everyone thinks I'm 822 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,480 going to destroy the universe and I'm silently keeping all of 823 00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:01,120 their electricity running cheaply or climate impact and 824 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,280 I'm working crazy hours under high stress. 825 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:07,240 You're welcome, right? But we all like we're all under 826 00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:10,480 that same trauma and that same stress, and we do it together. 827 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,520 It definitely forms that bond. And of course it has its secret 828 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:17,240 language and you, you have these subtle phrases and it's 829 00:41:17,240 --> 00:41:19,880 something that we do in our company. 830 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:24,640 We have to be sensitive to the ratio of people that we hire 831 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,880 that are from the industry versus those that are really 832 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,640 high tech or really, you know, strong and startup and and, and 833 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,960 tech growth, right? And maintain that balance 834 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,200 because it's I'm a plant engineer versus I'm in a nuclear 835 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:39,560 engineer. Totally different. 836 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,040 Like right to me, I'm like, oh, nuclear operations, like someone 837 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,880 from the outside would think, oh, it's about operating, it's 838 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,440 about the business of the plant. Like, no, no, no, that's an 839 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:49,640 operator. No, no, no. 840 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:53,120 And about a licensed, you know a licensed individual that's put. 841 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,160 Some respect on. That yeah. 842 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:56,880 And so it's like no, no, no, no, no. 843 00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:58,760 And it's like, Oh no, you're referring to a nuclear 844 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:00,920 professional, not to a operator, right? 845 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,640 Like so you know, you, you just have this phraseology. 846 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,960 We find it almost reassuring that when we go to plants, talk 847 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:14,160 to folks, the respect that you get as a software guy that can 848 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,560 exit the portal without causing a scene. 849 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,520 You know how to use the handrail without being told that follows 850 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,000 the signages, that respects the visitor badge. 851 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,680 You know that knows all the things and is very comfortable 852 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,200 in the environment. That, you know, doesn't flinch 853 00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,880 when the air puffers blow across your head, the explosive 854 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:35,000 detectors you. Know, right, Yeah. 855 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,040 And I think it's helpful because there is a little bit of that 856 00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,280 alienation when there's a newcomer. 857 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:44,920 There's so many different terms, technologies and the acronym 858 00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,000 soup. It does feel like a cool 859 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,600 insiders like we're in the no, but at the same time getting the 860 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:54,600 public to like you when you throw PWR P of your SMR versus 861 00:42:54,720 --> 00:42:58,000 MSR EP could have 18 different meanings. 862 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,360 And I think that's one of the reasons why, like, I was like, 863 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,240 oh, let me start naked nuclear. Like let's strip down all of 864 00:43:05,240 --> 00:43:09,760 these different things and make people feel good about learning 865 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,080 about nuclear. Because I think sometimes we'll 866 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,920 just kind of like jump into the deep end with a lot of the 867 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,000 different sources that are out there. 868 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,240 And it's overwhelming. If you're, you know, I'm a mom 869 00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:22,080 and you're thinking, is this coming to my town? 870 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,400 What's the trade off? You know, like, hey, mothers 871 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,280 from nuclear is there. But they're also being able to 872 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:30,040 translate a lot of this, like a lot of deep technical jargon in 873 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,240 a way that people are like, oh, it's not as bad as what I had 874 00:43:33,240 --> 00:43:34,520 pictured in my hand. Cool. 875 00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,880 And I think that's the other important part of being able to, 876 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,440 yeah, for you guys at nuclear, have that balance of deep 877 00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,120 technical knowledge, but also being like, hey, software guy 878 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,720 who only does a lot of coding, let's walk you into the nuclear 879 00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:49,680 side. I think it can be a fun 880 00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:53,760 experience for people as well. Yeah, you've got a great style, 881 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:55,280 five stars on Apple. Good job. 882 00:43:55,720 --> 00:43:57,880 I think I called you the IRA glass of nuclear because you 883 00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:01,120 have this very break it down for you. 884 00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,560 Let the guests run, then I'm going to break it down. 885 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,080 And then I think you do an excellent job. 886 00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,960 And and you mentioned mothers for nuclear and Heather and 887 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,360 Kristen. Heather's an amazing person. 888 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:13,600 If you've gotten to spend much time with her in person. 889 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:18,360 What 0 approach anxiety when it comes to talking to people about 890 00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,520 nuclear. Doesn't matter where you are. 891 00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:22,520 Yeah, I was taking notes the first time. 892 00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,680 I was like, OK, it's that easy. Yeah, floored. 893 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,800 Absolutely floored. But yeah, I think the nice thing 894 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:32,480 is, just like for me, I'm not afraid of stealing people's leg. 895 00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:34,600 Is that working for you? Let me try that out a little 896 00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:38,440 bit. I think really just so impressed 897 00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,440 by the way in which she was like, I'm just going to start. 898 00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:44,160 I'm like, wow, that's pretty cool. 899 00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,520 And I think it's also we're in this kind of phase, at least for 900 00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:49,560 nuclear. I always think of it as like the 901 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:53,040 ugly dweeby kid in high school that's now in college is like 902 00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:54,880 hot now. And like is all this attention 903 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:56,040 to like, I don't know what to do. 904 00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,920 I'm like, if nuclear is having that kind of moment right now 905 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,360 and it's I don't know what to do phase, but at the same time 906 00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:07,120 bringing people along that I never knew you in high school or 907 00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:09,240 whatever, I never knew all this history. 908 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,040 Being able to kind of share all of that with them. 909 00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:15,120 Well, it's really hard to keep up with with nuclear even if you 910 00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:16,960 are in nuclear because there's just so much happening. 911 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,320 But trying to educate the public along the way is like tricky for 912 00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,680 me. They taught 2nd through 8th 913 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,760 grade sciences out of a Science Museum. 914 00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:27,440 They did all their science curriculum stuff. 915 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:32,000 Exploration. Exploration place yes nice. 916 00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:35,880 I love you do some good research and like my whole life history 917 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,200 it's awesome as I was starting this podcast, I was actually 918 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,000 kind of concerned about the United States in terms of our 919 00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,640 science literacy. That one is another thing that 920 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:48,080 keeps me up at night, people not knowing how we're getting to the 921 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,920 sciences and how we're figuring out these deep technologies. 922 00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:55,160 I really want to bring nuclear into this space where people can 923 00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,840 feel exploratory with it, like, hey, you might not know what 924 00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:00,680 boron neutron capture therapy is. 925 00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:04,160 Nobody grows up knowing that. It's OK, let's talk about it 926 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:06,520 now. It's just more approachable. 927 00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:10,040 And now you've got this image in my head of the The Nuclear Geek 928 00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:14,400 to Goddess 90s movie and I can't get the thought of wind and 929 00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,120 solar being the popular hot girl. 930 00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,080 We could definitely do a thing with that and I think it's had 931 00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,200 its moment. And then realistically we're 932 00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,400 just looking at the energy forecast and be like, hey, for 933 00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,200 load growth is doing this hockey stick number. 934 00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:28,320 The Mean Girls are not going to get it done. 935 00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:30,160 Let's pitch this book I did to Russell. 936 00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:32,240 Perfect. I think it'll be great. 937 00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:33,960 What questions do you have for me? 938 00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:38,200 Yes, so this is fascinating for me because the one thing I had 939 00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:41,720 brought up before is when you're part of a generation of like, 940 00:46:41,720 --> 00:46:43,840 hey, my dad was a nuclear and now I'm at nuclear. 941 00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:49,080 How is it that you found your own kind of thing that you 942 00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:52,600 wanted to do? Hey, I'm my own person and I'm 943 00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,600 also doing the same kind of role that my dad was. 944 00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:57,480 So I guess that would be my first question for you. 945 00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:00,640 But first, a message from our sponsors. 946 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,280 How do you become successful in the job market? 947 00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:08,600 If you're listening to season 2 of the podcast, you know that 948 00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,680 networking is key. Why? 949 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:16,200 Because networking connects you to opportunities you didn't know 950 00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,440 existed. Here's the truth. 951 00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:23,280 In nuclear, a lot of the best jobs get filled before they even 952 00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,400 hit a job board. That's why you need Nuclear 953 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,760 Talent Scout. Their recruiters, know the 954 00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,400 companies, the hiring managers, and what it takes to get your 955 00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,680 resume noticed. When you register, you're 956 00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:39,160 putting your name in front of decision makers who are already 957 00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:43,760 looking for Someone Like You. Go to nucleartalentboost.com and 958 00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:47,120 get started today now. Back to the show, it's. 959 00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:52,440 Interesting, because I didn't start thinking I was going to go 960 00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:55,760 into nuclear back in free Internet, free LinkedIn, free 961 00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,040 job boards. Honestly, what really was who 962 00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,840 you knew, you know, I I got my first job at Burger King and 963 00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:04,000 then I worked at the car wash that got ready by the FBI and it 964 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,640 was literally a Breaking Bad type situation with money 965 00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:08,280 laundering at the car wash the whole deal. 966 00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,320 And and so it's like had a string of bad luck of, you know, 967 00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,760 high school jobs and so I got to college and then just 100 968 00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:18,000 resumes all hand, you know, printed, you know, there's no 969 00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,680 e-mail. It's show up, knock on the door 970 00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:24,120 at, you know, at the a valve company and be like, can I, you 971 00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:28,520 know, you get 100 rejections and as a 16 year old, you know, or 972 00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:30,600 as a 18 year old, it still stings. 973 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:34,880 And so you think, oh, and so it's you know, it's like, Oh 974 00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:36,640 yeah, I know this guy on this company. 975 00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,000 They need some help with plant process computer testing. 976 00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,640 And so here's this horrible stack of four feet high of 977 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:46,400 requirements and point verification, validation. 978 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:49,800 You're just going to go line by line through this code and 979 00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:53,040 verify that this plant simulator actually outputs what it's 980 00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:54,680 supposed to output one at a time. 981 00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,680 And it was like a lot of Mountain Dew and just manually 982 00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:00,720 inputting these values and then checking off on the screen and 983 00:49:00,720 --> 00:49:03,640 signing it off, right. But now you've got plant 984 00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:07,240 process, computer and simulation and control systems experience 985 00:49:07,240 --> 00:49:09,000 on your resume. Thought like, that's great. 986 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,160 I love electronics. I'm going to do computer stuff. 987 00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,560 And I ended up in Europe and I worked for Europe online and I 988 00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:17,800 was doing all these things And then 9/11 happened. 989 00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:19,640 You were in New York at the time. 990 00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,880 I was on a glacier at the highest point in the Swiss Alps 991 00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,840 on vacation and cell phone ring. So they share the top of the 992 00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:30,080 Alps. And because I worked at a 993 00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,920 satellite infrastructure for most of Western Europe, it was 994 00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,760 we're sitting on non essential personnel home this and this and 995 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:38,520 this And like, dude, vacation's over. 996 00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:43,400 And then from there, it's like, hey, guest permit visa for, you 997 00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:47,760 know, so many time zones away, it's probably time to go back to 998 00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:50,880 the US. And how do you get a job from 999 00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,240 that many time zones away when you don't have job boards? 1000 00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:55,920 It's who you know, again. And so I ended up at 1001 00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:57,760 Constellation. You want to plant, process, 1002 00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:00,480 computer and simulation work and real time systems work. 1003 00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,080 And I thought this was cool, but it was still very different from 1004 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,720 what my dad did. My dad was in engineering and he 1005 00:50:05,720 --> 00:50:09,240 worked in plants and I'm working in computers and I need to do 1006 00:50:09,240 --> 00:50:12,880 projects at plants, but I still had my kind of IT direction that 1007 00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:17,840 I was going. And then it got boring and I 1008 00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:21,600 went to the plants and I started doing big projects and I just 1009 00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,440 really liked it and I got my PMP and just thought this is fun and 1010 00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:26,080 great. Thankfully, my father had a 1011 00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:30,480 strong reputation and that the people that I worked with used 1012 00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:34,680 that in a positive way with me. And so it was embracing it was 1013 00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:37,120 apple doesn't fall far from the tree mentality. 1014 00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:41,320 So I, I, it was like the opposite of it was like positive 1015 00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,280 prejudice. I was given grace. 1016 00:50:43,720 --> 00:50:46,120 I was given acceptance. I was given like, oh, you're 1017 00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:48,760 Ike's son. I'm by default like you until 1018 00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:51,800 you proved me otherwise. And so it was. 1019 00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:53,960 Yeah, Yeah. So I got all. 1020 00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:57,600 It was definitely an advantage. And I tried not to be, you know, 1021 00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:01,560 a jerk about any of that and, and appreciate it, but it was 1022 00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:03,680 so, so it it kind of marked me into it. 1023 00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:07,480 And then I ended up in some exact same positions that he 1024 00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,000 had. One of the challenges growing up 1025 00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,960 as a second generation nuke is you don't see your dad very 1026 00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,560 often when plants are being built and started up. 1027 00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,960 There was a point and Palo Verde Unit 3 restart where he went to 1028 00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,360 work clean shaven. The next time I saw him, he had 1029 00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:24,840 a beard. It was common to sleep at the 1030 00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:26,600 plant. You were on shift getting this 1031 00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,000 thing going and you weren't going home until the job was 1032 00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:30,200 done. They didn't have fatigue rules 1033 00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,760 then. I think I understood him and I 1034 00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:38,920 understood the stress and hours much better when I was in his 1035 00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:42,040 shoes, right when I was doing those jobs and experiencing it 1036 00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:44,880 first hand for myself. And so it for me, it was never 1037 00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,800 like a shadow thing. Oh, I can appreciate this man 1038 00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:51,520 and I can give him some grace for my angsty childhood. 1039 00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,360 You know what I mean? You know, it's like, OK, now I 1040 00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,200 kind of feel bad about how I acted out as a teenager. 1041 00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,480 You know, it's like, I think that's a sign of gross. 1042 00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:03,120 If you don't regret who you were a few years ago, you haven't 1043 00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:05,120 progressed far enough. You got to look back and be 1044 00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:10,520 like, oh, OK, that was a choice. Yeah, and so that was helpful. 1045 00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:12,320 But from there I still kind of diverged. 1046 00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,520 You know, I ended up going a different direction, going back 1047 00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:16,600 into the technology side. It was a very positive 1048 00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:18,560 experience for me. It wasn't a how do I get out 1049 00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:20,520 from the shadows? Like I'm really proud of him and 1050 00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,720 what he was able to accomplish. I've had both the Super 1051 00:52:23,720 --> 00:52:27,520 positive, great responses and then I've heard a few stories 1052 00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:31,640 that you just don't want to hear about nothing. 1053 00:52:31,720 --> 00:52:33,760 You don't want to put it that way, but there's this things up 1054 00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:35,520 you don't picture. You don't want to have that 1055 00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:39,760 image of one of your parents in, you know, story being told. 1056 00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:44,320 For sure. It's like Dad is Dad, and if 1057 00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:46,640 Dad's not Dad, you're like, who's that guy? 1058 00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:48,640 Yeah. It's like, oh, boundaries, 1059 00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:51,040 please. But yeah. 1060 00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:53,480 So for me, it was a really positive experience in that way. 1061 00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:57,200 I would definitely want my kids to go into nuclear, but at the 1062 00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:59,480 same time they've gone very different directions with what 1063 00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:00,880 they want to do, and that's great too. 1064 00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:03,320 That's helpful to kind of understand because, yeah, I 1065 00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:06,000 think there's that angst for some kids to be like, I don't 1066 00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:07,920 want to be exactly like my parents. 1067 00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,080 And, you know, you kind of get the civil line of like, hey, 1068 00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:12,440 it's actually not like that. One of the things I think was 1069 00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:16,400 really interesting is almost like this triple threat of like 1070 00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,760 the operation side and project management as well as like the 1071 00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,760 finance and computational stuff. And then like, like, how have 1072 00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:27,480 you created this really crazy Venn diagram of skills? 1073 00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:29,880 And then like there's like you're in the middle of it. 1074 00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:32,320 My superpower, I would say, is connecting dots. 1075 00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:37,200 I'm really, really good at seeing how a very wide breadth 1076 00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:39,080 of things kind of all fits together. 1077 00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:41,880 One of the things I'm good at in my current job is going like, 1078 00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,200 OK, I understand how you do your job. 1079 00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:45,840 I understand how the technology works. 1080 00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:48,320 I'm going to put those pieces together and bridge that gap 1081 00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,560 between those two things. And so when I became ACFO in 1082 00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:53,880 addiction recovery, totally different job than running 1083 00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:57,440 technology at Palo Verde, it was, it was for problem solving. 1084 00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:01,720 They didn't need a traditional CFO to optimize anyone specific 1085 00:54:01,720 --> 00:54:03,840 part of finance. It was we have cash flow 1086 00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:07,320 trouble, we're fiction recovery, but we're also real estate. 1087 00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:10,400 We were like the operating on 0 margin. 1088 00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:13,680 We're trying to have explosive growth and we need systems 1089 00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:17,400 thinking and we need efficiency and we need ideas and we need to 1090 00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:19,440 get outside the box a little bit, right. 1091 00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:24,560 And so you don't hire, you know, one of the old green shade 1092 00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:27,440 visor, you know, accountants to to get outside the box. 1093 00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:30,280 Yeah. And so they, they tried that a 1094 00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:32,200 few times and and that didn't really work. 1095 00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:34,800 And so but it was purposeful for me. 1096 00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:38,280 I think when I left my last role in the utility, I had been about 1097 00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:41,080 10 years as a director over technology at a utility. 1098 00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:44,400 And it had gotten for me to the point where I know all the 1099 00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:49,760 things and for and I just was ready to do like something. 1100 00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:54,400 You know, I, as much as I've talked about how much I really 1101 00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,680 enjoy nuclear and I enjoy the machine, there's an aspect of 1102 00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:00,360 nuclear power that I never felt I totally fit in with. 1103 00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,320 And that's that very over the top. 1104 00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:06,040 You know, I am a nuclear professional and you have 1105 00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:10,800 violated my expectations and kind of this over the top safety 1106 00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:13,640 culture, the anything over the top really where it's like, I am 1107 00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:16,800 going to tell this story because this is the story IMPA wants to 1108 00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:21,440 hear or the NRC wants to hear or the Nuclear Safety Review Board 1109 00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:23,560 wants to hear. And I'm going to put on a little 1110 00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:25,520 bit of the nuclear airs, so to speak. 1111 00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:28,560 It's a little bit too much of that nuclear professional 1112 00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:32,800 flavor. And, you know, and I just never 1113 00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:34,960 like, for me, it was always about like, how can you solve 1114 00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:36,920 the problem? And, and I think you ask people 1115 00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:39,280 if you could, you know, what are you all about in five words? 1116 00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:41,240 And for me, it's always make things better. 1117 00:55:41,240 --> 00:55:43,720 Like I'm just, I took everything apart as a kid. 1118 00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:46,280 And it's just like, I want to know how things work and I want 1119 00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:47,920 to know how to make it better. And I want to know how to make 1120 00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:49,600 myself better. I know how to make the people 1121 00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:51,040 around me better. I want to know how to make the 1122 00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:52,760 paperwork better. I want to know how to make the 1123 00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:55,240 plant better. Like I want to make everything 1124 00:55:55,240 --> 00:55:57,120 like I just, that's how my brain works. 1125 00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:59,000 I look at something and I'm not happy with it. 1126 00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,160 Like how do I make this better? Here's this brand new cool shiny 1127 00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:03,840 awesome thing cool. How do I make it better? 1128 00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:08,840 Like it's obsessive for me and, and so that's applied to myself 1129 00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:11,200 as well. And I'm also have always been 1130 00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:15,720 too much of A coward to do completely step out and start my 1131 00:56:15,720 --> 00:56:18,320 own company. It just randomly think I can 1132 00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:21,440 build a language software and do all these things that you've 1133 00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:23,840 done right. And so it's been little baby 1134 00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:26,680 steps that kind of risk adverse engineering minded baby steps 1135 00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:28,400 where it's like, OK, I'm going to learn this and then I'm going 1136 00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:29,760 to learn that and then I'm going to learn that. 1137 00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,240 And then I'm just going to keep stacking skills and stacking 1138 00:56:32,240 --> 00:56:34,200 skills and building my confidence in each one of these 1139 00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:35,960 skills. And, you know, now I know how to 1140 00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:37,840 start businesses. I know how to do LLCS. 1141 00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:40,760 I can do finances, I can do now I can do sales and marketing. 1142 00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:43,560 Now I can, you know, build technology stacks. 1143 00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:47,160 Now I can like, you know, so I've, I've tried to curate my 1144 00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:49,800 skill set to the point where there's, if there's anything I 1145 00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:51,320 really want to do, I can go do it. 1146 00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:55,120 And, and I'm not, you know, beholden to some process or 1147 00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:57,800 something that is going to hold me back. 1148 00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:01,080 That is awesome. It's so helpful to know. 1149 00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:04,800 Like it's really hard sometimes I think, for kids in school to 1150 00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:06,400 like know what they want to do when I grow up. 1151 00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:10,080 But like, they'll, they'll have the traits and even like adults, 1152 00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:11,920 like they'll have the traits of what they like. 1153 00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:14,480 They're like, I like to, you know, connect the dots, make 1154 00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:17,960 things better, solve problems. But with that package, you're 1155 00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:21,360 like, I could literally do anything. 1156 00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:24,480 And so that, that, that baby stepping of like, OK, like I'm 1157 00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:25,880 going to start here. I'm going to fix this. 1158 00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:27,280 And that's going to, you know, get better. 1159 00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:31,200 And so I guess my, my one of my questions is like, so like how 1160 00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:33,240 was it that like you found yourself kind of surrounded 1161 00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:36,200 within this environment of like, yeah, we are going to optimize 1162 00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:37,800 the regulatory side. We are going to make this 1163 00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:40,840 better. We are going to really leverage 1164 00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:44,040 technology in order to kind of, you know, bring nuclear, you 1165 00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:47,760 know, into the 21st century because, yeah, that to me is, 1166 00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:49,880 you know, pretty, pretty interesting and pretty 1167 00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:53,560 fascinating as. Well, yeah, so this, the origin 1168 00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:56,000 story is it's kind of two divergent paths coming together 1169 00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:58,320 to create something really awesome. 1170 00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:01,720 And so this started the journey started for me probably 10 years 1171 00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:07,200 prior with leaving the plants, Sequoia plant from, from an 1172 00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:09,720 engineering role and going into the IT department. 1173 00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:12,800 And and that kind of happened for me because TVA, you know, 1174 00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:16,640 restructured that, brought in ACEO and had them report to the 1175 00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:18,880 CEO. And before then they had AVP of 1176 00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:22,160 Information Services and they really wanted to use 1177 00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:25,320 technologies to take advantage. At that point, I've been working 1178 00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:28,240 in maintenance and engineering and working plenty of outages 1179 00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:31,280 and thinking, man, chick-fil-A's got better technology and 1180 00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,160 situational awareness of critical path. 1181 00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:34,640 And I do, right? This is insane. 1182 00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:36,760 Like I just want the board chick-fil-A's got. 1183 00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:39,320 I want to know, you know, what job is Bob on right now and what 1184 00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:42,120 step in the package is he on? Like that's it's all I want to 1185 00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:43,560 know. And I got to get a pager, like a 1186 00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:46,720 literal pager. And you know, it's like, I'm 1187 00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:49,680 like, oh, this is terrible. And so I was that guy writing 1188 00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:54,000 Excel macros and Access databases inside my shop at 1189 00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:57,360 night so I could get better, you know, reports so I could show up 1190 00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:01,000 to the turnover meetings and not get beat up, you know, by, by 1191 00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:03,120 whoever you know, was expecting punching. 1192 00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:06,040 That day. Yeah, you got to know all this 1193 00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:08,800 stuff and your ability to, to take that data down and really 1194 00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:10,560 understand. I've got, you know, 100 people 1195 00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:12,240 in my organization who's doing what. 1196 00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:14,360 What did we accomplish? It's 3 shifts. 1197 00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:18,960 It's 24/7 like, how do I, how do I not work 100 hours and burn 1198 00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,120 myself out? How can I leverage technology to 1199 00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:22,120 help me with this? Right. 1200 00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:25,240 And that's where my brain went. Other people did that job more 1201 00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:27,200 successfully than I did. They use totally different 1202 00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:30,360 systems, but my systems, hey, I'm comfortable with tag. 1203 00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:32,240 I'm going to see if I can leverage tech to help me with 1204 00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:35,280 this. And so when I went to the CIO 1205 00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:39,480 and I said, like, Hey, here's all the things that nuclear 1206 00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:42,600 doesn't have that they should have from a tech stack 1207 00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:44,720 perspective, we've been in neglected. 1208 00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:47,920 This is what I want you to build for me for, for the fleet. 1209 00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:50,720 And he called me up three months later and said, Hey, why don't 1210 00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:53,200 you join, join my team. I was like, yes, please. 1211 00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:55,680 And you know, it was, it was time. 1212 00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:58,880 It was time to to get off the shift work, you know, leave the 1213 00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:03,120 fire rated clothing behind and and go get the the waste badge 1214 01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:06,680 instead of the lanyard and live the and and get lunches and so. 1215 01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:10,240 I was excited about that. So I went into the corporate 1216 01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:13,880 world and or the IT side and I started building out IT strategy 1217 01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:18,160 and I ended up building a total system for, for how do you build 1218 01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:22,680 a tech stack at a utility? Put that to APS, refined it, put 1219 01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:24,440 that to Palo Verde, refined it even further. 1220 01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:27,080 But at Palo Verde, I got to work with Brad and Gerald. 1221 01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:29,120 They were on my team on the data side. 1222 01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:31,960 They'd already started the journey of using machine 1223 01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:34,480 learning and building these micro applications to do 1224 01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:37,280 automation. And I took what they were doing 1225 01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:40,520 and combined it with what I had done on a bigger systems map of 1226 01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:42,280 you leveraging tech and strategy. 1227 01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:45,520 And because I had worked in so many departments, I had my 1228 01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:48,280 outage jobs, I had my EP jobs, I worked in maintenance, I worked 1229 01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:50,080 in projects, I worked in engineering. 1230 01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:54,320 I just took my map of the plant and said, all right, I'm going 1231 01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:56,880 to apply technology of this part to this part, to this part, to 1232 01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:00,320 this part, this part. We built the system for that one 1233 01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:03,280 utility, that one plant and said, this is how we're going 1234 01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:07,080 to, you know, literally take a third of the cost out of this 1235 01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:10,440 plant over time, building these tools, This is the plan. 1236 01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:14,440 And, and then COVID happened and I went to healthcare and Brad 1237 01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:16,840 and Gerald had more cars than I did. 1238 01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:20,120 And they started the company and I, I joined them as an advisor 1239 01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:22,240 initially and said, OK, let's keep this ball rolling. 1240 01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:25,680 And then, you know, things went well, They brought in some 1241 01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:29,480 funding and I made it full time. Right on. 1242 01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:32,440 And I think that's, it's so fun because I'm, I'm literally was 1243 01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:36,720 picturing it was like listening to this docu series on Bill 1244 01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:38,560 Gates. And like Bill Gates in like high 1245 01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:44,560 school was like trying to optimize his class schedule with 1246 01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:46,920 the entire rest of the school. He's like, this doesn't make any 1247 01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:48,600 sense. And so like, he literally like 1248 01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:51,520 started writing code and like literally creates A scheduler 1249 01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:53,960 for and like just gives it to the school. 1250 01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:56,720 And he's like here, the classes here, how the like the distance 1251 01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:59,360 calculated between the classes and like, here's like how you 1252 01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:01,880 can make it like, you know, the most effective classes. 1253 01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:04,800 And I, I'm literally was just picturing that of like when you 1254 01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:09,240 were, you're essentially talking about like how the information 1255 01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:12,960 side and how the technology side are kind of like coming together 1256 01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:16,440 and kind of creating the solution around like, hey, I'm 1257 01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:19,520 living in a problem. In addition to I've, I've seen 1258 01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:21,320 this problem from multiple different angles. 1259 01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:24,600 What you guys are solving at nuclear is almost something that 1260 01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:29,080 almost every conference brings up in some level or capacity of 1261 01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:33,280 like it's slow, there's too much paperwork, the regulatory sides 1262 01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:37,120 like searching in these things. It just takes too much time. 1263 01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:41,080 And so I guess now that my, my, my question is, was like, OK, so 1264 01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:44,600 as a company now what are you guys excited about? 1265 01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:47,200 Like, like the I've for me, I'm like the horizon looks, you 1266 01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:50,640 know, enormous. So what is exciting for you guys 1267 01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:54,240 as you're moving forward? Or I mean, so the mission for 1268 01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:57,440 us, even at Palo Verde, I gave this all hands meeting to my 1269 01:02:57,440 --> 01:03:01,000 team there at one point, we had a whole big room full of people 1270 01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:04,080 and maybe 70 people there. And it was literally that we're 1271 01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:07,440 going to save the world speech. And and you know, it's like I 1272 01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:10,560 just connected the dots down from like you're in IT, you're 1273 01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:12,360 doing this work, but this is leading to this. 1274 01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:15,160 This is leading to that. Here is the vision for how we're 1275 01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:18,880 going to to cut, you know, $100 million of operational cost out 1276 01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:23,680 of this, you know, and this was pre, you know, pre mothers for 1277 01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:28,520 nuclear pre, you know, Isodope pre gave gave Ivory, you know, 1278 01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:32,240 pre like all of the the nuclear, it's like everybody still hates 1279 01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:34,320 nuclear. And so we're like, you know, 1280 01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:36,200 when it's solar, is it everybody? 1281 01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:38,200 They're the Mean Girls, everybody hates nuclear, they're 1282 01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:40,200 the ugly duckling. But we're going to save it 1283 01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:43,000 anyway because it's the it's already the responsible choice 1284 01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:45,680 from a land usage and from a waste and from climate 1285 01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:48,720 perspective. But plants were shutting down 1286 01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:53,040 because of economic reasons and they're being shut down for, you 1287 01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:55,840 know, being turned off. And like, that can't happen. 1288 01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:59,760 Like we can't let that happen. And so we're going to prove it 1289 01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:02,320 in our span of control. We're going to show how we can 1290 01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:06,560 operate this plant. We're going to put I, I did 1291 01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:10,960 this, I replicated this talk and I showed these concrete examples 1292 01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:14,760 to maybe 10 other plants. And so I kind of went on the 1293 01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:18,880 road and said, like, this is how you can go cut huge amounts of 1294 01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:22,400 non fuel O&M out of your operating plant and not have to 1295 01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:25,240 get shut down. This is the playbook that we're 1296 01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:27,400 implementing. You go implement this. 1297 01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:30,680 We literally gave away source code that we that that we had 1298 01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:33,920 developed other plants to say, like, do what we're doing. 1299 01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:37,480 We're going to lead the charge, follow us, and we're going to 1300 01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:41,880 make nuclear the economically responsible choice, not just the 1301 01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:43,440 environmentally responsible choice. 1302 01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:45,640 And, and that was the mission we were on. 1303 01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:48,720 And so that mission continues, but now we get to do it 1304 01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:50,920 globally. You know, we're doing this, you 1305 01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:54,440 know, in multiple countries and we're getting to have that 1306 01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:56,840 impact. We're not constrained. 1307 01:04:56,840 --> 01:04:59,600 And now by the tiny org chart that you're allocated at your 1308 01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:02,560 nuclear plant of you can have one data scientist and you can 1309 01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:06,680 have a one Linux developer and you can, you know, it's like, 1310 01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:11,440 no, we can have as many people as we can afford And, and the 1311 01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:16,760 and the better value we provide, the more people, you know, we we 1312 01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:20,520 can have solve bigger problems. And this is positive spiral just 1313 01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:23,320 continues to grow. And at the time for us, it was 1314 01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:26,880 really that mission of make make nuclear economical enough that 1315 01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:31,760 no more plants shut down. We did not expect the AI that we 1316 01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:36,880 were building to be the source of nuclear no longer shutting 1317 01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:39,880 plants down. And so, so now we get this 1318 01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:43,760 virtual circle of we're building AI to improve nuclear, to build 1319 01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:48,040 more nuclear, to power more AI to build, to build better 1320 01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:51,680 nuclear and, and trying to keep this virtual cycle going. 1321 01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:56,720 And just the pace at which the technology is improving and the 1322 01:05:56,720 --> 01:06:01,120 pace at which we are able to translate the latest and 1323 01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:05,720 greatest technology into a value add for this niche that we care 1324 01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:08,280 so much about. And there's just great joy and 1325 01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:12,760 saying like, oh, this computer vision technology has finally 1326 01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:16,720 hit maturity level. I can now scan handwritten 1327 01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:20,400 documents from the 80s and make it digital searchable. 1328 01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:23,920 And I can have a conversation with this document somebody 1329 01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:27,720 wrote 45 years ago that it's almost illegible on the 1330 01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:30,840 microfiche, right? And, and being able to start to 1331 01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:34,360 do things like that to, to put a workflow together where push a 1332 01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:38,800 button and this thing that would have taken you a week now is 90% 1333 01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:43,080 done by a digital intern in 20 minutes. 1334 01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:46,360 And now you can, you know, take it and run with it. 1335 01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:50,760 And just these these magic moments of seeing, you know, the 1336 01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:54,080 application of the latest and greatest science to how do I 1337 01:06:54,080 --> 01:06:58,160 apply that in a very practical, tactical way, You know, at the 1338 01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:01,800 plant. That's where that's what gets us 1339 01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:04,640 excited. That's what as I show up to work 1340 01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:08,320 every day, because, you know, we I'm on the road a lot. 1341 01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:10,600 I talked to a lot of people. And when I start to describe 1342 01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:13,960 like, you don't know how far the world's come in the last six 1343 01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:17,880 months, not not let alone the last 24 months in terms of, you 1344 01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:21,360 know, you asked me in April, I would have told you that doesn't 1345 01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:23,520 exist and is impossible. You asked me a day. 1346 01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:24,520 I'm like, Oh yeah, we're doing it. 1347 01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:29,960 Oh, wow. Yeah, that's that's like 1348 01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:32,680 exciting. Like in in my head, I'm like, 1349 01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:37,000 OK, it's like we traveled back to the 1800s, but you guys just 1350 01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:40,400 like dropped off owing a washing machine and a dishwasher and a 1351 01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:42,880 microwave and you're like boom, boom, boom. 1352 01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:44,920 There you go. Now you got way more time on 1353 01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:48,840 your hands and like, it's, it's like literally like we're 1354 01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:50,760 watching the evolution of work happen. 1355 01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:54,320 And I think that's something that like like being in the 1356 01:07:54,320 --> 01:07:56,160 moment, like you're like, all right, we're doing it like this 1357 01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:59,000 is cool. But like, literally in my head, 1358 01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:01,720 I'm like, man, you know, how crazy would it have been if 1359 01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:03,480 like, you know, you're in the medieval time frame and it's 1360 01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:06,760 like somebody just like here is a dishwasher and a microwave, 1361 01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:09,520 like, like probably would have called you a witch and or 1362 01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:12,600 something. But I think that is like the, 1363 01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:15,640 the, the almost like the quantum leap that we're kind of seeing 1364 01:08:15,640 --> 01:08:20,040 within the technology application, within the AI use 1365 01:08:20,040 --> 01:08:23,120 that you guys are building. And it's super exciting from 1366 01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:29,080 that perspective of I, I feel like within society, anytime we 1367 01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:33,600 see the ability to do work, like the ability to optimize and do 1368 01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:36,800 work and, and, and become faster at doing, you know, you know, 1369 01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:42,240 standard work exponentially like shape, like shape time, You 1370 01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:45,040 know, it feels like, you know, horse and buggy to a Corvette. 1371 01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:48,439 Now all of a sudden we're like, oh Dang, we can, we can get some 1372 01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:53,279 places a lot faster. And I think it's, it's to me, I 1373 01:08:53,279 --> 01:08:57,439 guess to you, does it feel like we haven't even like seen like 1374 01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:01,040 the full use case of, you know, how good it can get? 1375 01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:04,319 Because like for me, I'm like, man, this is, this is monumental 1376 01:09:05,080 --> 01:09:08,399 in, in a, in a sort of way. Oh, it's the worst it's ever 1377 01:09:08,399 --> 01:09:10,600 going to be. That's what's so interesting 1378 01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:13,240 about it. And, and it's a really 1379 01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:18,520 difficult, like part of why I, I, I wanted to, to move into 1380 01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:22,560 this space, especially full time was just so I could keep up with 1381 01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:25,080 it, right? Because I don't know how I could 1382 01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:28,479 have a full time job and learn as much as I'm learning at the 1383 01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:32,680 same time if this wasn't my job. And it's especially challenging 1384 01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:36,359 for utilities across all dimensions of the utility, but 1385 01:09:36,399 --> 01:09:39,560 especially nuclear plants that don't change that much, right? 1386 01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:41,680 And so, you know, when, when I was at Palo Verde, one of the 1387 01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:44,439 big projects they were doing is polar crane, polar crane 1388 01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:47,640 replacements. And when I was always trying to, 1389 01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:49,680 and I ran technology. So I had all the technology 1390 01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:51,439 projects. And there's always this bit of a 1391 01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:55,240 clash in philosophy between plant projects and technology 1392 01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:57,320 projects. And I, I was blessed to have 1393 01:09:57,320 --> 01:09:59,760 done both, right? I, I did, you know, hold up tank 1394 01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:02,520 replacements and some generator replacements and turbine 1395 01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:05,400 reblading and, and plant prop project proper, right. 1396 01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:07,240 And I, I can compare and contrast them very well. 1397 01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:10,600 And, and so when people have asked me like, well, why does IT 1398 01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:12,880 need so many project managers? And how come you can't do this 1399 01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:15,640 and can't do that? And I'm like, OK, imagine if the 1400 01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:19,160 polar crane was an IT project, a tech project, you would come in 1401 01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:20,880 and say like, OK, to replace the polar crane. 1402 01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:22,520 And I'd say, OK, great. What do you want to do? 1403 01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:26,680 Like we want to replace it Like, well, you know, motor operated 1404 01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:29,520 cranes are obsolete. We haven't had that technology 1405 01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:31,760 in 10 years. What do you actually trying to 1406 01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:33,800 accomplish? Oh, we want to move things 1407 01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:35,520 around containment and move things in and out of 1408 01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:37,080 containment. OK, great. 1409 01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:38,600 You want to move things in? Do you need to move them in 1410 01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:40,560 two-dimensional space or three-dimensional space? 1411 01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:42,360 Oh, we need to move in three-dimensional space. 1412 01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:46,040 OK, cool. Do you have a lot of metal? 1413 01:10:46,040 --> 01:10:49,480 Because I can do gravitation, I can do magnetic mag lifts. 1414 01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:52,280 We could do transport technology. 1415 01:10:52,480 --> 01:10:56,280 We do antigravity technology, like there's like 20 ways I can 1416 01:10:56,280 --> 01:10:58,320 move things around magically within your plant. 1417 01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:00,200 Like how do you want me to do that? 1418 01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:02,240 Right? And it's just, and so, and then 1419 01:11:02,320 --> 01:11:05,000 in five years that technology will be obsolete, right? 1420 01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:07,800 And so now I'm trying to figure out what's on the horizon. 1421 01:11:07,800 --> 01:11:10,960 You know, it's, it's particle, you know, I'm going to, I'm 1422 01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:13,280 going to just generate wormholes and move things in through 1423 01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:16,800 miniature wormholes. You know, it's like, that's like 1424 01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:21,920 that's what it's like to be in technology, especially now. 1425 01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:25,760 It's like I can't even predict, I can't predict what's going to 1426 01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:29,000 be happening in five years. I know what I think is going to 1427 01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:33,000 be the plants are going to look like what the plants could look 1428 01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:35,640 like in five years. And it's crazy. 1429 01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:38,880 It is crazy. I mean, I've, I've written, we, 1430 01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:42,080 we wrote some, some of how we did this and, and in the early 1431 01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:45,240 days at Palo Verde is we wrote these day in the life stories, 1432 01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:49,760 you know, and, and the the idea was get someone that has a job 1433 01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:53,320 and a specific job and have them write the day in the life as if 1434 01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:55,360 they were in minority report or admission. 1435 01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:58,240 Impossible. Like imagine the furthest out 1436 01:11:58,240 --> 01:11:59,760 future you could possibly think of. 1437 01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:02,160 Every technology can possibly imagine exists. 1438 01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:05,400 Write what your day is like. It's like, oh, I'm driving into 1439 01:12:05,400 --> 01:12:09,040 work and my I automatically on my heads up display have a 1440 01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:12,280 readout of what the last shift did and I get instant turnover 1441 01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:15,480 and my personal device, you know, knows that I'm now in the 1442 01:12:15,480 --> 01:12:17,040 OCA. And so it goes ahead and 1443 01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:18,720 prepares my this and that, right? 1444 01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:22,040 I have Geo fencing and I have like all the hands free and I've 1445 01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:24,400 got augmented reality and I've got right. 1446 01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:27,160 So it auto signs me on to the clearance and it gives me my pre 1447 01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:32,240 job brief and then my RWP, my my spot robot, you know, goes and 1448 01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:35,560 surveys my walk down area and gives me tips on how to lower my 1449 01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:38,280 dose. And it gives, you know, the AI 1450 01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:42,080 chatbot gives me my RWP briefing and quizzes me and doesn't 1451 01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:47,640 unlock my RCA access until I satisfy that I do in fact, fully 1452 01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:50,160 understand and three-way communicate with my briefing. 1453 01:12:50,160 --> 01:12:52,960 And, you know, it's like all of these things that, you know, 1454 01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:55,920 we're trying to like, tell the story in, in a narrative way of 1455 01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:59,760 what the future is like. And then we take that story, we 1456 01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:02,760 say, OK, what is true now? What has to be true from an 1457 01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:05,520 infrastructure and tech perspective for this to be real? 1458 01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:09,080 OK, I, I here's all the gaps of things I don't have today. 1459 01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:11,440 What are all the systems that I do have today? 1460 01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:14,360 When are they going obsolete? What am I going to replace them 1461 01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:16,440 with that I can make this story real. 1462 01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:19,520 And how can I do that with the money I already have because I 1463 01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:21,040 got to replace these systems anyway. 1464 01:13:21,480 --> 01:13:23,320 But what we, what do we do as good project managers? 1465 01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:25,400 Oh, I'm the like for like, I'm not going to gold plate. 1466 01:13:25,720 --> 01:13:28,760 Well, most of the time it's not any more expensive to get the 1467 01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:33,080 technology that has the features you want to build towards, but 1468 01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:35,840 it's you can't use it yet because a lot of times you need 1469 01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:39,960 A + B + C in order to get D And utilities don't think that way, 1470 01:13:40,240 --> 01:13:42,840 right? They think A has an ROIB 1471 01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:44,120 doesn't. So I'm not going to do B. 1472 01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:48,080 Well, it's ABC and D and I need ABC and D over a six year 1473 01:13:48,080 --> 01:13:50,320 period. So I have to be thinking out, 1474 01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:54,400 you know, Scott Lathrop talks about seven generation thinking 1475 01:13:54,480 --> 01:13:57,760 and I applied, I applied that to technology stack. 1476 01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:02,760 I've got 7 years of this equipment obsolescence and I've 1477 01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:04,840 got all of these different pieces scattered. 1478 01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:08,520 And I'm going to lay out a strategy is as each one is 1479 01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:11,000 obsolete and gets retired, I'm going to replace it with a thing 1480 01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:12,320 I'm going to need 7 years from now. 1481 01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:21,160 And that way I I'm marching. I yeah, I really, I like that 1482 01:14:21,160 --> 01:14:23,400 perspective because the other thing that I was thinking about 1483 01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:30,920 just from a technology user on, you know, my end is how do I 1484 01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:33,960 keep up it? It feels like, you know, you 1485 01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:36,800 blink and there's another iPhone released and you're like, Oh my 1486 01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:39,920 gosh, like, hey, can we, can we look at like this kind of 1487 01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:43,080 seven-year timeline of like, what are we potentially gonna 1488 01:14:43,080 --> 01:14:45,080 have then? And can we plan for that? 1489 01:14:45,440 --> 01:14:50,120 Because otherwise, like I have a truck and it updates itself and 1490 01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:52,640 I'm like, like, stop. What kind? 1491 01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:54,160 Of truck do you have? I'm a truck guy. 1492 01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:56,720 Oh yeah, so I have a little baby truck. 1493 01:14:56,720 --> 01:15:00,680 I have a Ford Maverick, but it's it's the hybrid. 1494 01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:04,720 So it's it's very cutesy for around town in another life. 1495 01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:08,080 I I think I want like AI want to like drive a monster truck. 1496 01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:11,800 Ford girl, five stars. So I've got a a Ford F-250 and 1497 01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:13,600 I've got a 72-F100. Wow. 1498 01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:18,200 So you are a truck guy? Nice, nice, nice. 1499 01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:20,840 Yeah. And I think about that a lot 1500 01:15:20,840 --> 01:15:25,840 because I'm like, man, sometimes just like the older models of 1501 01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:29,320 things are just nicer for me. Like mentally, I think that's 1502 01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:32,760 that's something that's really fascinating within the realm of 1503 01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:37,600 like, can humans keep up with the the pace of technology that 1504 01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:40,160 we're going? And I think instead of kind of 1505 01:15:40,160 --> 01:15:42,520 just doing like the next best thing, we're going to have to 1506 01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:45,160 start taking larger strides. And that's, that's kind of what 1507 01:15:45,160 --> 01:15:47,000 I'm hearing you say like we're going to have to start taking 1508 01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:49,720 some larger strides and, and kind of stretching our 1509 01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:53,400 imagination to see what's coming down the road and plan for that 1510 01:15:53,520 --> 01:15:56,640 because otherwise it, it feels like a little overwhelming a 1511 01:15:56,640 --> 01:15:59,640 bit. Yeah, I, I think at some point 1512 01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:03,400 you'll spend more money on technology, robots and AI than 1513 01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:07,160 you will on labor. And I think that's, and I think 1514 01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:10,280 that's OK because I think the labor will be way more 1515 01:16:10,280 --> 01:16:12,760 meaningful. You know, you will have 1516 01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:16,800 everybody will be a manager effectively hands on. 1517 01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:19,400 I don't mean like, you know, patent leather shoes, you know, 1518 01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:22,360 in the corner office. I mean, you know, like at the 1519 01:16:22,360 --> 01:16:25,360 field. But imagine every tradesman, 1520 01:16:25,360 --> 01:16:29,480 every single electrician has a robotic apprentice to carry 1521 01:16:29,480 --> 01:16:32,360 their tools And like, go ahead and take the cover off that 1522 01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:34,160 breaker panel for me and do not drop it. 1523 01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:37,400 Like, OK, good job, little robot, good job, little buddy. 1524 01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:40,080 Like now I'm going to now I'm going to go do the, the the real 1525 01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:42,400 work, right. You know, it's like, you know, 1526 01:16:42,600 --> 01:16:45,440 you go ahead and rack that breaker in because I'm not about 1527 01:16:45,440 --> 01:16:46,360 arc flash today. Oh my God. 1528 01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:49,840 Yeah. Yeah. 1529 01:16:49,840 --> 01:16:52,280 And so, you know, I think you'll see a lot more of that. 1530 01:16:52,280 --> 01:16:56,240 And if we do it correctly, it's not going to be job loss. 1531 01:16:56,560 --> 01:16:58,440 You're going to continue to grow the community because you're 1532 01:16:58,440 --> 01:17:00,080 going to be having, you're going to be building so many more 1533 01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:02,280 plants. I, I don't think we're in a 1534 01:17:02,280 --> 01:17:04,520 bubble. I don't think the demand for 1535 01:17:04,520 --> 01:17:07,880 energy will ever go down. I think it will continue to go 1536 01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:10,120 up at the pace of which we can provide it as long as we could 1537 01:17:10,120 --> 01:17:13,920 do it in a sustainable way and and I think we can with 1538 01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:15,960 technology. Right on. 1539 01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:17,760 I guess one of the other questions that way is pretty 1540 01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:23,240 classic to the show is 1. If you could, you know, build a 1541 01:17:23,240 --> 01:17:26,080 futuristic city, what would it look like? 1542 01:17:26,080 --> 01:17:29,280 What what are you putting in it and and how are you living in 1543 01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:35,160 it? It was, oh man, I'm I'm weird. 1544 01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:39,280 I guess I'm weird. It would look like the Lord of 1545 01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:43,400 the Rings Hobbit huts on the outside and the Star Trek 1546 01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:47,960 holodeck on the inside. Oh my God, that is the nerdiest 1547 01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:51,080 answer I've ever heard. But I absolutely appreciate it 1548 01:17:51,080 --> 01:17:53,000 100%. I literally was talking about 1549 01:17:53,000 --> 01:17:54,240 this morning. I was like, am IA Hobbit. 1550 01:17:54,240 --> 01:17:57,440 I think I might be a might be a little Hobbit, but yeah. 1551 01:17:58,760 --> 01:18:02,640 OK, a mix of the TARDIS inside in like time Space doesn't exist 1552 01:18:02,640 --> 01:18:05,960 inside my Hobbit Hut and I have got holodeck. 1553 01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:08,720 I can make it anything I want whenever I want it to be that 1554 01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:10,280 way. Nice. 1555 01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:12,640 And if and if you need to go outside and you know, touch some 1556 01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:16,760 grass, boom, it's there. But yeah, bigger on the inside 1557 01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:18,960 as well because that you don't want to be banging your I'm 1558 01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:22,080 short, so I'm probably I'm Hobbit size anyway, so that's 1559 01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:24,000 not a problem for me. But you know what a Big Bang in 1560 01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:25,800 your head on on little Hobbit holes. 1561 01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:28,080 OK, perfect, perfect. I love that answer. 1562 01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:32,360 Another question is if you had to give a Ted talk on a non 1563 01:18:32,360 --> 01:18:35,320 nuclear topic, what would it be about? 1564 01:18:36,080 --> 01:18:39,960 Sugar free mixology. Oh wow, you said that like that 1565 01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:41,560 was like straight up off the head. 1566 01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:47,600 Yeah, so I am, I'm a diabetic, so and I have very particular 1567 01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:49,320 taste buds. Like I'm a flavor person. 1568 01:18:49,360 --> 01:18:51,600 I've got probably 100 flavor agents. 1569 01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:55,800 I make things all the time. My daughter's got that same like 1570 01:18:56,520 --> 01:18:58,880 like she's always mixing things right And like, I've got 1571 01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:01,160 recipes. I got all the stuff right. 1572 01:19:01,160 --> 01:19:06,400 Like if you want, if you want sugar free diet cherry and not 1573 01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:09,160 taste like cough syrup, you want like straight up maricino 1574 01:19:09,160 --> 01:19:12,000 cherry. It's watermelon and almond. 1575 01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:16,280 You mix almond extract and watermelon squirt, you've got 1576 01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:17,160 maricino cherry. Oh. 1577 01:19:17,440 --> 01:19:19,440 Let's see, you're a professional is what I'm here, right? 1578 01:19:19,840 --> 01:19:22,920 You throw a little like the spicy being Luan's in there. 1579 01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:24,600 You can start to get Luxardo cherry. 1580 01:19:25,080 --> 01:19:28,480 So like I can tune this. You know you want a smoked 1581 01:19:28,480 --> 01:19:33,320 pineapple jalapeno Margarita that's 0 calories like other 1582 01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:36,600 than the other, give them the tequila like 0 sugar. 1583 01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:41,920 Like yes, I'm like here's how you can be diabetic friendly and 1584 01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:45,160 not just drink Diet Coke water and unsweet tea like I got you. 1585 01:19:45,600 --> 01:19:51,200 I make any flavor you want. Wow, I am not diabetic, but I am 1586 01:19:51,200 --> 01:19:53,640 fascinated. Fascinated. 1587 01:19:53,640 --> 01:19:56,440 I, I've had a lot of diabetic patients where I'm like, man, 1588 01:19:56,560 --> 01:19:58,920 it, it's can't be the Doctor Pepper anymore. 1589 01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:03,160 Can't do that. Huh, OK, that is a really cool 1590 01:20:03,160 --> 01:20:04,880 answer. And now I need to know like the, 1591 01:20:04,920 --> 01:20:07,920 I need like a flow chart with all of the different flavor 1592 01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:12,360 profiles because I think that's absolutely fantastic as well. 1593 01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:16,560 You gave us your 5 words to make the world better. 1594 01:20:17,560 --> 01:20:20,120 If you could, you know, because I feel like you've got the 1595 01:20:20,120 --> 01:20:24,480 technology mind if you could bring in one type of technology 1596 01:20:24,480 --> 01:20:27,640 that you think could just like advance humanity, what do you 1597 01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:31,560 think it would be? Which one do I want to say out 1598 01:20:31,560 --> 01:20:38,760 loud? Oh my gosh, I am. 1599 01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:41,000 I don't know. There's the near term stuff and 1600 01:20:41,000 --> 01:20:43,560 then there's like the really out there stuff. 1601 01:20:43,600 --> 01:20:47,440 And so I try to keep, you know, I think I think quantum 1602 01:20:47,440 --> 01:20:49,800 computing is super interesting and I think there's a lot of 1603 01:20:49,800 --> 01:20:52,000 opportunity there, but I also think it's going to break the 1604 01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:58,120 simulation that we're in. Everybody wants a. 1605 01:20:58,120 --> 01:21:00,720 Disruptor until we're really disrupting and stuff. 1606 01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:04,440 Yeah, the world is changing in a pace that I don't think we're 1607 01:21:04,440 --> 01:21:07,280 ready for. And so that's the thing that 1608 01:21:07,280 --> 01:21:12,960 concerns me the most is fulfillment, meaning like, and, 1609 01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:16,800 and so I got different ideas on what that technology looks like. 1610 01:21:16,800 --> 01:21:19,480 But I think, you know, you know, we're all fighting a battle in 1611 01:21:19,480 --> 01:21:22,000 neurochemistry. Everybody that is rich tells you 1612 01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:25,560 it's not the money, but you can't learn that lesson without 1613 01:21:25,560 --> 01:21:27,480 learning that lesson by getting rich. 1614 01:21:27,480 --> 01:21:29,960 I think, you know, And so it's like, OK. 1615 01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:33,320 And I think it's that way for everything, right? 1616 01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:36,080 It's the hedonic treadmill. It's no, we're chasing something 1617 01:21:36,080 --> 01:21:39,120 that isn't the thing the neurochemistry is going to 1618 01:21:39,120 --> 01:21:41,760 reward us for. It's the thing that we think 1619 01:21:41,760 --> 01:21:42,680 it's what. Yeah. 1620 01:21:42,680 --> 01:21:45,640 So it's the fulfillment piece. It is the I'm doing something 1621 01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:48,320 meaningful. I'm it, it means something to 1622 01:21:48,320 --> 01:21:52,200 someone outside of me, to a community, to an environment, to 1623 01:21:52,200 --> 01:21:55,560 a machine, to outside of me. It's meaningful. 1624 01:21:55,800 --> 01:22:00,040 It's challenging. So it's not boring. 1625 01:22:00,600 --> 01:22:03,600 I'm growing in the pursuit of doing it. 1626 01:22:04,160 --> 01:22:08,000 I have a somewhat unique skill set that I can be proud of to 1627 01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:11,880 apply to it. And so it's, I would say it 1628 01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:15,400 would be a technology that allows people to discover what 1629 01:22:15,400 --> 01:22:17,960 those things are within themselves and help guide them 1630 01:22:17,960 --> 01:22:23,240 towards that in a, in a much simpler way than like a 1631 01:22:23,240 --> 01:22:26,040 lifetime's worth of therapy and self help looks. 1632 01:22:28,680 --> 01:22:32,040 Right, that is pretty dope. I I really appreciate that 1633 01:22:32,040 --> 01:22:35,120 answer as well. I literally just, I think I 1634 01:22:35,240 --> 01:22:38,840 just, I came across this post that was literally like the, the 1635 01:22:38,840 --> 01:22:42,360 deficit of fulfillment creates all of this chaos. 1636 01:22:42,680 --> 01:22:45,960 And I think, you know, more technology doesn't necessarily 1637 01:22:45,960 --> 01:22:49,640 solve it because it's all of that lack of fulfillment, but a 1638 01:22:49,640 --> 01:22:53,200 technology that allows you to discover fulfillment. 1639 01:22:53,200 --> 01:22:56,920 I'm like, oh, it's kind of met up and I appreciate it because, 1640 01:22:56,920 --> 01:22:59,600 yeah, it is, it is so helpful because, yeah, you've got so 1641 01:22:59,600 --> 01:23:00,840 many people that are like, what do I do? 1642 01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:02,440 How do I, how do I do these things? 1643 01:23:02,440 --> 01:23:06,760 And I think that I think that, you know, kind of ties back into 1644 01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:09,920 why nuclear is so sticky for so many individuals. 1645 01:23:09,920 --> 01:23:13,800 Is that like very niche sense of, of fulfilment that you're 1646 01:23:13,800 --> 01:23:17,760 like, I'm doing this one thing, but I can also see like the big 1647 01:23:17,760 --> 01:23:21,240 picture of who it helps and, and how it helps those people as 1648 01:23:21,240 --> 01:23:23,520 well, which I'm like, that's pretty amazing. 1649 01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:25,400 Yeah. And there's so many things out 1650 01:23:25,400 --> 01:23:27,040 there that are so hard to grasp on. 1651 01:23:27,040 --> 01:23:29,120 You got Simon Sinek giving you some great framework. 1652 01:23:29,120 --> 01:23:32,400 You've got Tony Robbins like circle chart of life thing that 1653 01:23:32,400 --> 01:23:34,560 you have to go balance. And you've got like Tom Bill, 1654 01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:37,800 you and his mindset stuff. And they're all super amazing, 1655 01:23:37,800 --> 01:23:42,880 but they're all also like heart. You know what, Like I almost 1656 01:23:42,880 --> 01:23:45,080 want like my own control room in my head. 1657 01:23:45,080 --> 01:23:48,000 It's like, oh, Ding, Ding, Ding, you're low on the community. 1658 01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:49,720 Like you need to prioritize this. 1659 01:23:49,720 --> 01:23:51,240 I've updated your schedule for you. 1660 01:23:51,240 --> 01:23:53,280 I've signed you up for these glasses or whatever. 1661 01:23:53,520 --> 01:23:55,760 So now you can raise this. It's like, oh, Ding, Ding, Ding, 1662 01:23:55,760 --> 01:23:58,400 you're low on like the family. Oh, Ding, Ding, Ding, you're low 1663 01:23:58,400 --> 01:24:01,880 on the spiritual or oh, Ding, Ding, Ding, you're low on skill 1664 01:24:01,880 --> 01:24:05,280 acquisition. Like I've weaked your habits, 1665 01:24:05,280 --> 01:24:07,720 opted you. I want the machine to prompt me 1666 01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:12,480 to do the things that aren't bad habits, right? 1667 01:24:12,480 --> 01:24:15,520 They're not just the thing I've fallen into doing that's not 1668 01:24:15,520 --> 01:24:17,600 optimal for me. And I wanted to say, hey, 1669 01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:20,240 remember, you want to be happy. Stop doing that. 1670 01:24:20,240 --> 01:24:24,000 Start doing this. That's interesting. 1671 01:24:24,000 --> 01:24:27,240 Instagram just came out with a new algorithm update. 1672 01:24:27,240 --> 01:24:30,800 So you're allowed to control what you see on your algorithm. 1673 01:24:31,080 --> 01:24:35,880 And to me, in my brain, I'm like, I'm seeing that evolve as 1674 01:24:35,880 --> 01:24:39,280 its own sort of like new commerce of like how do you 1675 01:24:39,280 --> 01:24:42,360 control essentially your heuristic of everything that 1676 01:24:42,360 --> 01:24:44,880 you're taking in in a day? I can also kind of see on the 1677 01:24:44,880 --> 01:24:48,360 horizon of being a lot more mindful of the technologies that 1678 01:24:48,360 --> 01:24:52,200 we're using and having it inform us in a way that's actually like 1679 01:24:52,400 --> 01:24:56,440 helpful to not just ourself, but our community as well. 1680 01:24:57,600 --> 01:25:01,560 All of which are pretty. I like how we got to this part 1681 01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:04,160 of the conversation where it's like these deep philosophical 1682 01:25:04,160 --> 01:25:07,320 truths of like fulfillment and satisfaction in life because 1683 01:25:07,320 --> 01:25:10,560 like that's really what we're all trying to kind of do anyway, 1684 01:25:11,560 --> 01:25:14,680 which I, I'm, I'm excited that, you know, for us it's kind of 1685 01:25:14,680 --> 01:25:16,720 like within that nuclear scope, but like, yeah, for other 1686 01:25:16,720 --> 01:25:19,600 people, you know, figuring out what that is and, and, and being 1687 01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:22,240 able to kind of facilitate that is also pretty exciting. 1688 01:25:23,400 --> 01:25:26,240 Yeah, I mean, and I I'm not surprised because I, I feel like 1689 01:25:26,240 --> 01:25:29,440 both of us back to the common I made near the top of hindered 1690 01:25:29,440 --> 01:25:33,080 spirits. We are both doing things because 1691 01:25:33,080 --> 01:25:35,760 it's the thing that we want to do now. 1692 01:25:35,760 --> 01:25:38,720 It's the best use of what we are and who we are right now. 1693 01:25:39,120 --> 01:25:43,240 It's, we're not stuck in a, in, in a, in a particular job or a 1694 01:25:43,240 --> 01:25:46,760 particular company or feel trapped or golden handcuffed or, 1695 01:25:46,840 --> 01:25:50,920 you know, or, or societally, you know, or parentally, you know, 1696 01:25:51,480 --> 01:25:54,320 judged into it. It's, you know, there's so many 1697 01:25:54,760 --> 01:25:57,800 or, you know, or, or just locked in for financial reasons or for 1698 01:25:57,800 --> 01:26:00,600 family reasons, or, you know, you've moved around a lot. 1699 01:26:00,600 --> 01:26:02,720 I've moved around a lot and we've gotten to the point where 1700 01:26:02,720 --> 01:26:05,120 we've acquired skills and said, look, I'm just going to do this 1701 01:26:05,120 --> 01:26:07,080 'cause this is what I want to do right now. 1702 01:26:08,520 --> 01:26:11,040 Yeah, I think, yeah, that, that it's very empowering. 1703 01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:14,280 And I, I like, I don't necessarily see myself as 1704 01:26:14,280 --> 01:26:16,120 inspirational. I'm pretty much having like a 1705 01:26:16,120 --> 01:26:18,400 goldfish memory and I'm like, I'd like to do what I like to 1706 01:26:18,400 --> 01:26:21,960 do, but it is fun to kind of interact with people and they're 1707 01:26:21,960 --> 01:26:24,000 like, wow, like you just do things. 1708 01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:26,960 And I'm like, well, yes, you're not doing things because I like 1709 01:26:27,000 --> 01:26:29,520 to do things. Philly, you like to do things. 1710 01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:31,160 So like we just like to do things and we're like, all 1711 01:26:31,160 --> 01:26:33,360 right, like we're just going to, we're going to go out and try 1712 01:26:33,360 --> 01:26:35,240 it. And I think it's, it's the 1713 01:26:35,480 --> 01:26:37,840 ability to learn along the way. Like I know I'm going to look 1714 01:26:37,840 --> 01:26:40,800 silly most of the time, Like I'm like, I I'll have to get over 1715 01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:42,760 that. I'll look back and be like, Wow, 1716 01:26:42,760 --> 01:26:44,760 that is cringe. But you know that that'll, 1717 01:26:44,960 --> 01:26:47,680 that'll be gross. But yeah, I think that's the, 1718 01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:52,360 the, the fun thing for me is kind of interacting with folks 1719 01:26:52,360 --> 01:26:55,760 that are not that are kind of, you know, kind of locked into 1720 01:26:55,760 --> 01:26:59,080 place in those different ways to just be like, yeah, you could 1721 01:26:59,080 --> 01:27:02,120 just do whatever you want. There's actually no rules. 1722 01:27:02,680 --> 01:27:05,000 Probably don't motor somebody. But like other than that, like 1723 01:27:05,160 --> 01:27:06,320 there's no rules. Like you can go. 1724 01:27:06,320 --> 01:27:08,800 Yeah, there are. Laws. 1725 01:27:09,680 --> 01:27:13,680 But yeah, I think that's, that's the thing that in order to like 1726 01:27:13,680 --> 01:27:17,200 really, you know, be fulfilled in in a, in a purposeful way is 1727 01:27:17,200 --> 01:27:20,000 you actually have to start doing stuff that you don't know 1728 01:27:20,000 --> 01:27:22,520 necessarily if it's going to work, work out. 1729 01:27:23,080 --> 01:27:25,280 And so because that's kind of where the excitement comes in. 1730 01:27:25,280 --> 01:27:28,040 And it's like, yeah, it isn't 100% certain that this is going 1731 01:27:28,040 --> 01:27:30,360 to make sense, but like we're going to do it anyway and see 1732 01:27:30,360 --> 01:27:33,200 how it turns out. But awesome. 1733 01:27:36,240 --> 01:27:37,960 This was a fantastic conversation. 1734 01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:41,400 I know we've gone a little bit over our normal podcast lengths, 1735 01:27:41,400 --> 01:27:43,560 but I think when you put it. Was two and one. 1736 01:27:43,560 --> 01:27:47,920 So like in my head it's 1 + 1. That's 2. 1 + 1 is 3. 1737 01:27:49,200 --> 01:27:52,000 Even better. And it can be 4 for extremely 1738 01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:53,960 large values of 1. Exactly. 1739 01:27:53,960 --> 01:27:57,120 It's a very nerd math joke. I'm thrilled that we got to have 1740 01:27:57,120 --> 01:27:59,960 this conversation that we kind of, you know, serpentined our 1741 01:27:59,960 --> 01:28:02,560 way through a bunch of different topics. 1742 01:28:02,800 --> 01:28:05,560 My key takeaways is I think a lot of times people look at 1743 01:28:05,560 --> 01:28:08,240 nuclear from the outside and be like, I can't do that. 1744 01:28:08,240 --> 01:28:09,960 I'm like, why not? The nice thing about the 1745 01:28:09,960 --> 01:28:13,120 industry especially because like you know, there is so much of A 1746 01:28:13,120 --> 01:28:15,960 community aspect that people are willing to take you know, 5 1747 01:28:15,960 --> 01:28:19,720 minutes to chat and, and help direct people and things like 1748 01:28:19,720 --> 01:28:21,400 that. Yeah, almost every role exists. 1749 01:28:21,400 --> 01:28:23,200 Go, go, apply. Go do it. 1750 01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:24,800 Right. Yeah, exactly. 1751 01:28:25,160 --> 01:28:28,120 Go play, go do it. Well, thank you so much for, you 1752 01:28:28,120 --> 01:28:30,080 know, being on my podcast and vice versa. 1753 01:28:30,080 --> 01:28:31,840 Thank you for the invite for your podcast. 1754 01:28:32,560 --> 01:28:34,440 Double kind of like crossover episode. 1755 01:28:34,600 --> 01:28:37,200 I always love the crossover episodes of the 90s, like very 1756 01:28:37,200 --> 01:28:40,080 classic, like those were always so fun to me. 1757 01:28:40,720 --> 01:28:43,800 But yeah, I'm, I'm super excited to kind of like get this out to 1758 01:28:43,800 --> 01:28:48,160 the people, but also just like to show the, you know, the 1759 01:28:48,160 --> 01:28:50,960 diversity within the industries of like, you know, you've 1760 01:28:50,960 --> 01:28:55,240 literally done all of the roles. My background is way over there 1761 01:28:55,240 --> 01:28:58,520 to the left. And so I think it's, it's 1762 01:28:58,520 --> 01:29:02,640 helpful to, for people to kind of see, you know, being able to 1763 01:29:02,640 --> 01:29:05,560 have those different, you know, not to say that we're role 1764 01:29:05,560 --> 01:29:08,560 models, but having like a, a picture of like, hey, this 1765 01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:10,840 person did it this way and this person did it that way. 1766 01:29:11,080 --> 01:29:13,640 There there aren't really no rules of how you can get into 1767 01:29:13,640 --> 01:29:16,640 this industry as long as you, you know, apply and start going 1768 01:29:16,680 --> 01:29:18,600 for it. Yeah, you just do it. 1769 01:29:18,600 --> 01:29:20,880 Just show up. Thank you so much. 1770 01:29:20,920 --> 01:29:23,760 This is a pleasure, your conversation, and I can't wait 1771 01:29:23,760 --> 01:29:26,440 to see you at the next event, wherever we might be. 1772 01:29:28,040 --> 01:29:31,840 Thank you for listening to this episode of Naked Nuclear and the 1773 01:29:31,840 --> 01:29:35,800 Future of Nuclear from Nuclear. We hope you enjoyed it. 1774 01:29:36,560 --> 01:29:38,880 To learn more about what Phil and the team are building at 1775 01:29:38,880 --> 01:29:42,000 Nuclear, you can go to Nuclear dot AI. 1776 01:29:42,760 --> 01:29:45,800 If you click on Nuclear in the news, you'll find their other 1777 01:29:45,840 --> 01:29:49,800 podcast episodes. Until next time, stay curious.