1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:04,520 Welcome back to Naked Nuclear and another edition of all of 2 00:00:04,520 --> 00:00:07,280 them Friday. We're the final Friday of every 3 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:09,960 month we spotlight people in nuclear or through time, 4 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:12,280 attention and remaining brain cells. 5 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,160 Today's guest is Nick Durant, founder of What is Nuclear? 6 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,640 One of the internet's first and best resources for understanding 7 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:21,720 how nuclear energy actually works. 8 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:26,840 Just clear explanation Reactor deep dives history, policy, and 9 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:30,920 the kind of educational content the broader energy world should 10 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,200 have built years ago. Nick's journey spans 11 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,720 engineering, consulting, entrepreneurship, and science 12 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:40,640 communication. In this episode, we talked about 13 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,760 how you built the site, the future of advanced reactors, 14 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:48,240 what coolants and moderators actually do, and why regulation 15 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,160 matters if we want innovation to move faster than a glacier. 16 00:00:52,160 --> 00:00:54,600 So I hope you enjoy this episode. 17 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,440 And welcome to another episode of Naked Nuclear. 18 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,880 Today's series is a part of our larger series of who to follow 19 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:08,760 in nuclear. If you've ever gone onto YouTube 20 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,560 or been browsing to the web and you type into your search 21 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,040 browser what is nuclear, you'll actually publicly find a website 22 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,320 called What is Nuclear? Today's guest is Nick Turin, 23 00:01:18,320 --> 00:01:20,840 PhD. He's got a nuclear engineering 24 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,360 background license. PE has been spent 15 years at 25 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:28,640 terror power and now advises the industry as well as creates 26 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:33,240 amazing YouTube content on historical nuclear reactors and 27 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,240 the history of nuclear. So thank you so much for joining 28 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,720 us today, Nick, and I'm so glad to have you on the show. 29 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:41,640 Yes, happy to be here. Thanks so much for having me. 30 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,440 So it was really funny. A few months back, I was 31 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,680 connected on LinkedIn and I was listening and watching some of 32 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:54,280 the content that you've created around historical nuclear film. 33 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:57,560 I was like enthralled watching this. 34 00:01:57,560 --> 00:01:58,600 I was like, Oh my gosh, this? Is. 35 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:01,840 So amazing, literally like on my counter, like sitting up. 36 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:05,240 I'm like, this is really cool. So I just literally had to get 37 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:06,320 here. Like what? 38 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,960 What is the story from like, you know, creating these like from, 39 00:02:10,039 --> 00:02:13,080 you know, when were you interested in nuclear? 40 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,800 Why create this? So you want the whole story like 41 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:18,840 going way back to nuclear? A bridge. 42 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:20,640 A bridge version. Yeah, I'll try to give the short 43 00:02:20,640 --> 00:02:23,720 version. I had interest in energy. 44 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,720 I think I was kind of lucky to have something to kind of guide 45 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,480 me when I was in high school. I was like, energy is important. 46 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:31,560 There's energy shortage, there's climate change, there's all 47 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,440 sorts of stuff. Even back when I was in high 48 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:34,800 school, that was very interesting. 49 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,240 So when I went off to engineering school, not knowing 50 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,920 what to major in, I asked a peer advisor, hey, I'm interested in 51 00:02:41,920 --> 00:02:43,640 energy, but I don't know what to major in. 52 00:02:43,640 --> 00:02:46,120 And she had said, well, have you tried our nuclear engineering 53 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,440 department? I just happened to be at a 54 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,120 university that had a nuclear department and one of the few, 55 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:52,400 you know, University of Michigan. 56 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,000 And I said, you know, no, I haven't thought of that. 57 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,080 Isn't nuclear kind of old and dumb? 58 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,680 And didn't we just shut our research reactor down? 59 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:02,760 And why would I do that? She said, well, just take the 60 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,960 introductory class and it'll fit this prerequisite anyway. 61 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,200 And anyway, so I took the class and I fell in love with nuclear. 62 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,320 I learned all these things, you know, all the things we know now 63 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,120 about how cool and capable and what the potential is, the real 64 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,480 start of my interest. And then I started with fusion 65 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,480 and got into advanced fission and learned about sodium cooled 66 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,920 fast reactors. And that led to my job at Terra 67 00:03:23,920 --> 00:03:25,520 Power. They basically called, I was in 68 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,720 grad school. They were looking for people who 69 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,720 are studying sodium cooled reactors and like my research 70 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:32,800 group was one of the few. So they called us up and they 71 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,360 said, hey, teach us a thing. So I went out there to see 72 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,920 people as a grad student, as a consultant, and they put me in a 73 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:43,440 nice hotel and that was a good 15 1/2 year adventure there. 74 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:47,760 But yeah, along the way, this what is nuclear thing started 75 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,680 with my friends in undergrad. We were like, hey, no one likes 76 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:51,960 nuclear. It's too. 77 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:53,480 It's so cool. And they just don't know. 78 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,840 And when you Google it, they don't see anything positive. 79 00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:00,280 So let's make a website that'll solve this problem, and we'll 80 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:02,880 say we'll teach people, you know, we'll make it plain 81 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:04,360 language. It'll be written by nuclear 82 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,160 engineering students, you know, the most trustworthy group of 83 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:08,680 people. That was the start of the 84 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:11,120 website. We wrote basic pages on what is 85 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,480 nuclear waste and what are different types of reactors and 86 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,160 so on. And then as the years went on, 87 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,600 my friends got other jobs and kind of got out of it. 88 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:20,480 I still would just, like, write new pages. 89 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,880 As I was talking to people in the public or doing 90 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,040 presentations at high schools, questions came up all the time. 91 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,920 And so I would write a page eventually, like, OK, what's the 92 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:32,920 difference between sodium and molten salt? 93 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,160 Like those sounds similar to the old page, or what's up with 94 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:37,800 thorium? So we do a little page on the 95 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:39,320 head. And that was a big one for a 96 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:41,240 while. So eventually I got into like 97 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:43,960 history stuff and I started throwing a bunch of reactor 98 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,520 history stuff on there as I got interested in it. 99 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,840 And that's kind of what led eventually to the discovery of 100 00:04:49,840 --> 00:04:54,280 just like hundreds of old nuclear films sitting on 16 101 00:04:54,280 --> 00:04:56,160 millimeter reels in the National Archives. 102 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,120 And I found out how to get those digitized and just started 103 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,440 throwing those up there. So that's kind of how they got 104 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,000 started. That's amazing. 105 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,240 I love that you're just like, yeah, just casually got called 106 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,040 up to the big leagues from terror power. 107 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,760 Yeah, it was awesome. Some sort of baseball player 108 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,800 just gets what liners like we're going to need this ace picture 109 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,040 right now it. Was just dumb luck because I 110 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,280 mean, when we were doing the senior design project that 111 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:24,240 nuclear engineering students do, like I really wanted to do the 112 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,360 weird sodium cooled fast reactor option and all my teammates were 113 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:29,720 like, why would we do that? Like that reactor is going to be 114 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:31,040 no one's going to build one of those. 115 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,520 Where would we get jobs? Like none of these exist right 116 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:35,040 now. And I was like, all right, guys, 117 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,120 I'll make a deal with you. I don't know why I wanted to do 118 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,800 it so but I was like, I will learn the Super obscure 119 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,240 neutronics codes and you guys just have to do the thermal 120 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,280 hydraulics and economics and they're like, OK, you'll do all 121 00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:46,360 the neutrons. I'm like sure. 122 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,360 So I like really dug in and learned these like super 123 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,160 esoteric coach from like the 60s. 124 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,400 This other a grad student helped me do it. 125 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,960 Eventually it just so happened it was just again, luck that 126 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,720 Bill Gates came along and wanted to do a certain cooled fast 127 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:01,160 tractor. And like everyone else had been 128 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,320 thinking as my classmates did, like, why would we do that? 129 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,120 So it was just lucky, lucky timing really. 130 00:06:07,840 --> 00:06:09,520 Wow. OK, that, that's awesome. 131 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:11,680 Like, I'll just do neutronics, put the team on my back. 132 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:12,760 Like, yeah. Yeah. 133 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:14,520 And that carried my career. But they were like, we need 134 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:15,880 somebody knows these neutronics codes. 135 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:17,160 And I was like, oh, I can do that. 136 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,560 And I did that for many years. Oh my goodness, that's too 137 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:22,480 funny. Yeah, I love the serendipity of 138 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:24,800 it as well. And so, OK, so then we're we're 139 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,320 creating what is nuclear because you're like, hey, there's nobody 140 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,840 talking about this. We need good, you know, 141 00:06:30,840 --> 00:06:33,120 information on the site. I love the sources that you guys 142 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:35,680 have on there. I guess like along the way, so 143 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:37,920 you went from nuclear engineering students to then 144 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,200 getting then working in the field. 145 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,360 What was that process like in terms of trying to inform the 146 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,160 public along the way as you're learning and and the kind of the 147 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,400 industry's learning as well? Yeah, it was interesting. 148 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:53,800 I mean, certainly the overall public perception of nuclear I 149 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,920 think has changed pretty significantly since the early 150 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,640 2000s or mid 2000s, I guess, when we started the website. 151 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,760 But yeah, so I mean, we were in Ann Arbor and Ann Arbor is 152 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,040 largely anti nuclear, at least it was back then. 153 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:09,400 And like we had a thing at one point we just went out on the 154 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:11,600 street and started with like a video camera. 155 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,120 And we would like go up to people and be like, you know, an 156 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:15,720 old school video camera, like tape. 157 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,480 And we were like, you know, hey, can we interview about nuclear 158 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:19,960 power? And they would be like, sure. 159 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:21,760 And we'd say like, what do you think about nuclear? 160 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:23,800 And everybody said they don't like it. 161 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,040 And they, you know, they don't think it should be expanded or 162 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:28,560 anything like that was pretty universal. 163 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,920 So that was very interesting. But then occasionally, like, 164 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:33,560 people started seeming to get interested. 165 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,920 I got a call from a Michigan radio, like an NPR station. 166 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,920 I think a professor had referred them to me because the professor 167 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,080 didn't want to do the interview. So I got a little bit of 168 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:46,840 exposure and kind of the local, you know, radio media, which was 169 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,080 kind of fun. And it just started building on 170 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,880 itself to a degree. Like with the site up, people 171 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:55,040 started reaching out more And I got involved in doing eventually 172 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,640 someone would say like, hey, I have a, my kid is in middle 173 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,000 school and they're looking for people to give talks on like 174 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,240 cool science topics. And so I started, I got involved 175 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,640 through just through like friends, parents and that kind 176 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:08,120 of thing. The kids are really into it. 177 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,120 And then the teacher would be like, hey, can you come back 178 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,200 next year? Or like, Hey, my colleague wants 179 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,480 like a similar talk. And so I think because it's kind 180 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,880 of like a nichy thing and that most people don't know that much 181 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,280 about, but it's like getting more and more interesting. 182 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,840 There was quite a bit of demand that just sort of built on 183 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:26,320 itself. And so I got to a point in 184 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:29,120 Seattle, I mean, I was doing talks at coffee shops and 185 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,200 breweries and schools and he responded to emails all the 186 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:34,600 time. So it really just ramped up. 187 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,159 The just interest came and people found me and asked me a 188 00:08:38,159 --> 00:08:40,440 bunch of questions and it got much more positive. 189 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,559 Like in Seattle, it was also pretty anti nuclear at first, 190 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,560 but then it got to a point where like most of the people were 191 00:08:46,560 --> 00:08:49,200 really open and interested. There would always be someone 192 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,840 who would say like, who's paying you to say all that? 193 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:53,400 Like you're trying to kill the planet. 194 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:55,600 And then I got to a point where I was comfortable enough for I 195 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,680 could kind of yell back and sort of an entertaining way and be 196 00:08:58,680 --> 00:09:01,040 like, well, I don't think killing 8 million people per 197 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:02,560 year with air pollution is much better. 198 00:09:02,560 --> 00:09:05,280 And then the crowd erupt in applause. 199 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:07,160 That's my perception. I'm sure it was kind of like a 200 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:11,080 few people clapping. But anyway, so that's kind of 201 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,800 how it's gone so far. OK, yeah. 202 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,480 So like essentially a nuclear famous hack, like the hecklers. 203 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,560 I also really enjoyed that as well. 204 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,680 But yeah, it is interesting, you know, kind of like watching the 205 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:27,040 evolution of people's interests within the industry and topic 206 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,000 itself, especially because I think even nowadays we really 207 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,880 don't have a lot of K through 12 education in nuclear. 208 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,120 So it's pretty foreign to a lot of people anyway. 209 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,440 And so when they do find somebody who can kind of tell 210 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:41,160 them in a way that they understand, they're like, hey, 211 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,680 I'm going to refer that guy to all of my friends. 212 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,760 It's hard to scale. I mean, there's like ANS has 213 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,480 tons of good material slides that are pretty good slide decks 214 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,000 and they have a whole like boxes. 215 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,360 You can be like, hey ANS, I'm going to do a talk at a school 216 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:56,920 and they like send you a box of like pretty cool, you know, 217 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:00,120 stickers and little pamphlets and little simulated fuel pins 218 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:01,960 and stuff like that. They have some good resources 219 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,640 and other outreach groups like Generation Atomic has some 220 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:06,800 pretty good stuff and they're trained. 221 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,320 They have a thing where they try to train people to be good 222 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:11,560 advocates and they help what resonates. 223 00:10:11,560 --> 00:10:13,480 And so I think there is a huge demand for it, though. 224 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,720 Every time I did like I was saying, a talk at at a science 225 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:18,840 class, especially in high school, really, people were 226 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,240 like, that was great. The students loved it. 227 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,720 Like please come back. So if people have kids or know 228 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:28,200 someone who's in high school and can somehow go, they're really 229 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,040 reaching out for it. You can say like, Hey, does 230 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,200 anyone want to hear, you know, when's nuclear science week or 231 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:33,480 when are you guys doing nuclear science? 232 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,440 Do you want to talk? It can be really interesting and 233 00:10:36,560 --> 00:10:39,200 I think that the kids take it home and talk to their parents 234 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,320 about it. I think it's very powerful. 235 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:43,120 That's awesome. Yeah. 236 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,360 And I think the the word of mouth, it's almost like every 237 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,640 marketer's dream, like it's to get their their product or their 238 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,280 service or whatever they're doing so that somebody goes home 239 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,000 and tells somebody else about it. 240 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,320 I feel like that just kind of naturally happens with nuclear, 241 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,960 which is also pretty cool. I think, you know, also like the 242 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,360 rise of YouTube is a big one because I think you were 243 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:05,200 mentioning like thorium reactors and I know like 10 Fox and 244 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:06,560 Nerman's. Like what about thorium? 245 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:12,040 Yeah, Well, yeah, that was so around that time, I mean, in 20 246 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,520 whatever 13 or 14 thorium became like fever pitch. 247 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,800 And I that's when I started doing sort of what I call in 248 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,800 reach instead of outreach to a point where I was like there 249 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,080 were people who were very pro nuclear because of thorium and 250 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,160 they were saying things and it was becoming and we were seeing 251 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,840 big publications and major, major online platforms. 252 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,120 And so I'm saying like, hey, thorium is way better than 253 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:36,400 uranium. It's much safer. 254 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,960 There's much more of it. And it was only not developed 255 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:40,840 because it couldn't make weapons. 256 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:42,760 Like we made light water reactors because we were going 257 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:44,480 to make weapons with them. None of this is true. 258 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,880 It's not even remotely true. I mean, I was a big thorium fan 259 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:49,520 for years. But when I started hearing 260 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,840 people say stuff that was kind of overhyped, I wanted to push 261 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,080 back a little bit. And just, you know, I feel bad 262 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,760 for the engineers who have to like, say, oh, people found out 263 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,040 it was a nuclear engineer. They're like, oh, are you doing 264 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:02,720 thorium? Just people off the street, 265 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,640 everybody knew about thorium, which is, I mean, impressive in 266 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:11,200 a way, but they had. Yeah, over inflated expectations 267 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,760 of like what it could be and why we weren't doing it. 268 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:18,360 So anyway, I did a bunch of like push back and like correction on 269 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,440 thorium and I made a big thorium myths page and tried to, I 270 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:23,880 always kind of debated it because like what tends to 271 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:25,280 happen is people learn about thorium. 272 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,200 They're like wow, nuclear is cool because of thorium. 273 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,160 And then when they start digging into it more, they're like 274 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:30,920 actually nuclear is cool in general. 275 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,680 And so it's started this feeder program into being there. 276 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:35,440 So. So maybe I shouldn't. 277 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,400 I don't want to go out and like Pooh Pooh it too much because I 278 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,000 don't want to prevent that from happening. 279 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:41,640 And people are smart. They'll figure it out 280 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,160 eventually. But it's still kind of annoys me 281 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:48,360 when people say things that are just like not quite historically 282 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:50,880 accurate. But anyway, the Thornian people 283 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,040 got like mad at me. I got in like big fights with 284 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,760 other pro nuclear people. Yeah, back in the day, mostly on 285 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:57,920 like Reddit. Yeah, like, yeah, they're so 286 00:12:58,000 --> 00:12:59,200 Reddit, you're getting a little heated. 287 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:01,960 Yeah, exactly. So, you know, Internet warrior, 288 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,200 warrior in out there. Good times. 289 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:06,000 Yeah. I mean, the longevity and props 290 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,760 to you is very impressive, but I think that it is something 291 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,840 that's really fascinating that I feel like I see nowadays as well 292 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,040 is, you know, because people are kind of like tell a friend, tell 293 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:16,480 somebody else. It it. 294 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,880 Nuclear almost gets this like to this game of telephone where 295 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,280 like the end message kind of gets a little bit garbled and 296 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,680 you're like, oh, that's not quite right. 297 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,080 And having to kind of course correct a bit as well. 298 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,600 I feel like here's things around like SMR development where I'm 299 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,040 like, oh, I don't necessarily know. 300 00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:36,600 And now, I mean, obviously there's a lot of excitement, 301 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:38,000 there's a lot of hype associated with that. 302 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,200 And there's potentially a lot of inadvertent fraud, like people 303 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,520 saying things like, oh, we solved all economic problems 304 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:46,600 with nuclear, just gonna make little tiny reactors and like 305 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,760 everything will be solved. It's like, I wish they would 306 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,000 say, and I know this isn't how capitalism works. 307 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,440 I wish they would say, like, we think there's a reason to 308 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,440 believe that if you make them smaller, we could make them 309 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,080 cheaper. And we are going to find out by 310 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,200 developing them. And we're going to build a few 311 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:00,440 and we're going to see if it works. 312 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:02,920 But instead they come up and say, like everyone who's 313 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:04,640 building big reactors doesn't know what they're doing. 314 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:06,440 We're going to build small reactors and it's going to be a 315 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:08,600 great solution. And it's like, you don't really 316 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:09,840 know that. Like you haven't built the 317 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,200 reactor. Like, let's get to prototype 318 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,480 first. So I am happy that now people 319 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:16,760 are kind of done with talking and everybody is like, let's 320 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,960 just build a reactor and look at it and see how well it actually 321 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:21,800 performs. So I'm excited to get into that 322 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:23,360 phase. Yeah. 323 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,240 And that's exciting because, yeah, before this I was just 324 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,800 chatting because I am not a finance person. 325 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,160 And so I'm always trying to learn from like the economic 326 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:31,320 side. And I was literally chatting 327 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,360 with the economics person before this and I'm like, tell me about 328 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,240 the economy side. And my brain. 329 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:39,280 I was like, I don't think my brain likes that brain more 330 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,240 likes the physics for me of like supply chain management of 331 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,760 global different, you know, products and things. 332 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,640 And so I guess that kind of was making me think about like when 333 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,080 we're seeing like kind of this expansion of just different 334 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,400 reactor types of advanced reactors, One of the things that 335 00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:00,200 I think, you know, that a lot of people are interested in is just 336 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,000 understanding all the different types. 337 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,320 And one of the things that I think was really helpful on your 338 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,400 website is like when you're going into like reactors, I've 339 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,640 got like this lovely table of coolants moderators. 340 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,640 And if you go down it. And so for our guests that are 341 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,520 maybe not super familiar with the reactor side, what is a 342 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:17,880 coolant? What is a moderator? 343 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:19,880 How are they different from each other? 344 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,560 Yeah. So, OK, they can be the same, 345 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,120 but they don't have to be. That's one fun fact. 346 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,480 A coolant, I think is the easiest to understand. 347 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,280 When you're splitting atoms, you're releasing the nuclear 348 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:33,840 energy as heat. And so you're just heating up 349 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,000 the fuel and that heat is going to start conducting outside of 350 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:38,360 the fuel material and you have to. 351 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,480 It would just keep increasing in temperature as you ran the 352 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:45,600 reactor, unless you pushed some kind of fluid by it to pick up 353 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,720 the heat and carry it and transport it to the power 354 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,000 conversion cycle. And that's where it turns the 355 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,480 heat into electricity. So you can use lots of different 356 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,320 materials. Usually it's a fluid. 357 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,440 You can use a solid, but usually it's either a gas or liquid. 358 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,840 Obviously water is kind of the most common coolant right now. 359 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,480 It's easy to heat up water and it's easy to pump water. 360 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,440 So those are kind of the two things that you need to be able 361 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,280 to do. There are many other types of 362 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:13,680 coolants, like liquid metals. So mercury was used as a coolant 363 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:15,400 in the Clementine reactor. Yeah. 364 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:19,840 Real early on, a strange one off and then much more commonly 365 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,400 liquid metal sodium, which is just like mercury. 366 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,240 It's not. Don't think salt when you hear 367 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,680 sodium, everyone thinks you know salt sodium, but actually 368 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,360 there's like elemental liquid metal sodium, which is more like 369 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,320 mercury. You can have liquid molten lead 370 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,760 is another liquid metal that's been used a few times. 371 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:37,960 And these all have different pros and cons. 372 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:39,880 Like liquid metal is an excellent coolant. 373 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:44,240 It conducts heat really well and it's easy to pump and it doesn't 374 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:45,960 go to high pressure when you heat it up. 375 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,800 So with water, when you heat it up, it would boil unless you 376 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:50,120 keep it under very high pressure. 377 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:53,360 With liquid metal, you can leave it at pretty low pressure and it 378 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,320 doesn't boil until. So you can have a much sort of 379 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,000 thinner walled system. But there's disadvantages which 380 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:03,560 are like liquid metals burn when they touch water or air or 381 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:05,640 concrete. So you have to like if there's a 382 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,920 leak, it's a much bigger deal. And then you can have gases like 383 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,280 helium or carbon dioxide or nitrogen, and you can have 384 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,599 organic material like oil. There's oil and wax that have 385 00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:17,920 been used as coolant. And then it keeps going. 386 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,920 You can get creative. There's like many different 387 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,240 types of things that can and have been used as coolant. 388 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,839 And then moderators are much more nuanced, and this is in the 389 00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:30,560 nuclear physics realm of things. A moderator's job is to slow 390 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:35,040 down neutrons to improve the ability of the system to chain 391 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,200 react with neutrons. So it's all about the neutron 392 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,120 chain reaction. When you split an atom, neutrons 393 00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:45,160 come out moving really fast and they could go and find a new 394 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,160 another uranium atom and split it, or they could leak out of 395 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,640 the system, or they could get captured by another piece of 396 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:55,120 fuel that doesn't fission. So it turns out we found out 397 00:17:55,120 --> 00:17:58,880 very early on in the early 1940s, they discovered that if 398 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,040 you slow those neutrons down in a separate material. 399 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,040 So if you have like a fuel material and then a moderator 400 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,200 material, that's job is to just slow neutrons down. 401 00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:11,320 You can get the chain reaction to react much, much easier with 402 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,320 really natural uranium. This is how they did the first 403 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:16,800 reactor before we had enrichment or anything. 404 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:21,760 So the trick is the neutron goes out of the fuel into this 405 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,640 moderator and it basically slows down in peace. 406 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,720 OK, so it's slowing down by bouncing off light nuclides, 407 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,560 whether it's carbon or hydrogen in water or whatever, it slows 408 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:32,880 down. And as it slows down, there's 409 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,880 nothing in that material that can capture neutrons because 410 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:37,920 those materials only slow neutrons down. 411 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,560 They don't capture them or as if you slow down in the fuel, it's 412 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,120 very likely that you're going to captured by uranium 238, which 413 00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:47,640 is actually a pretty big neutron absorber. 414 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,440 The trick is to slow it down over the moderator and then let 415 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,280 it come back into the fuel is a very slow neutron, at which 416 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:57,080 point the likelihood is that it will get captured in AU 235 atom 417 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:02,200 and caused the next vision. So anyway, so moderators make 418 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:04,960 you can run on much lower enriched fuel. 419 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,840 If you get rid of a moderator, you need higher enrichment. 420 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,520 You need Halo or beyond really to go critical like a fast 421 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:13,640 reactor. Graphite is carbon. 422 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,760 That's the early moderator. Then we did switch to water. 423 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,880 Water can both cool and moderate at the same time, which is super 424 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:21,840 nice. Water is actually a phenomenal 425 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,640 moderator because those hydrogen atoms, if a neutron hits one, it 426 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,600 slows down like all the way. So you can slow a neutron down 427 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,200 in like 5 centimeters with water or it takes like 20 centimeters 428 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,560 with graphite. So you can make a very small 429 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,040 core, which is why we made pressurized water reactors for 430 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,640 submarines because they're very small and very compact. 431 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,280 That's those are the basics. No, that that's actually super 432 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:48,160 helpful because I think I think a lot of the time, at least from 433 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,960 the folks that we get questions on the show and on the podcast, 434 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,400 I think if you're like recently getting into nuclear, because 435 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,200 nuclear is like the hot topic right now. 436 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,720 You kind of step in and you look around and there's just like 437 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:00,200 everything happening all at once. 438 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,800 And so people are like salt, molten salt, fluoride, chloride, 439 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:05,280 like I don't really know what's happening here. 440 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:07,840 And I think it may be sometimes it's overwhelming. 441 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,920 So I think this is definitely one table that we can just be 442 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,160 like, hey, like we got our coolants here, modern and water 443 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,760 being, you know. Very simple, but also kind of 444 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,920 really cool that it can be both the coolant and the moderator. 445 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,800 You can also just use it as the coolant like in the Hanford B 446 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,200 reactor. It was just a little thin 447 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,440 annulus of water was pumped through the coolant, but then 448 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,840 there was a bunch of graphite to slow it down so you can kind of 449 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,000 mix and match it. That tables a lot of fun because 450 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,920 it just shows that there's like so many different comos. 451 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,720 And then I tried to put little hyperlinks to like if there was 452 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,120 a beryllium moderated sodium cooled reactor like here's like 453 00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:44,640 that one that ever was and here's a link to it or something 454 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,080 like that. So I've had a lot of fun and 455 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,240 whenever I hear of a new one, which happens all the time. 456 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,240 So I was like, oh, here's a organic cooled heavy water 457 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,440 moderated reactor. I'd have to go add it to the 458 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,320 table. So I update that table all the 459 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,160 time. Yeah, I love that as well 460 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,640 because I think it's also fun for just like the historical 461 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,760 brain and me to kind of just go on a hunt and be like, what have 462 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,400 we done historically? Because yeah, I think it gets 463 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:13,720 weird and kind of fun as well. Yeah, and I, not to jump back to 464 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,440 the films, but like, that's one thing that I've really enjoyed 465 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,480 these historical films for is because like, yeah, you can read 466 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,400 about or you hear about they built a reactor and here's a 467 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,560 paper on it. But when you can see it in like 468 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:28,440 a pretty professionally produced documentary style film that 469 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,720 someone put some real effort into, it's somehow just more 470 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:33,880 engaging. Like maybe I'm more of a visual 471 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,520 learner, but I think, and it's also you like more shareable and 472 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,920 more accessible to more people. So I think a lot of those 473 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,840 documentary films are just so well done and super interesting 474 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:45,840 to see. Like here we are, you know, 475 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,720 here's the nuclear powered ship Savannah getting, you know, 476 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,160 here's someone smashing the champagne on it and christening 477 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:53,200 it. Here it is. 478 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,160 Here are people eating their dinners in it and just being 479 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,480 able to see it. It's been really inspiring. 480 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,640 It's like humbling because it's crazy what the people have done 481 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,880 in the past. And it's, I think it's good for 482 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,200 people in the industry to watch some of that and be like, wow, 483 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,960 we have some ketchup to do because it was a pretty hot 484 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,640 industry in the 50s and 60s. So I think those have been 485 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:13,640 really fun. Yeah. 486 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,200 I think historically it's just so fascinating learning about 487 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,760 where we were. To me, like right now, we're 488 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:21,040 kind of in the age of information. 489 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,480 We have just access to so much information, but it's also 490 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,840 sometimes like a little bit of a needle in a haystack when you're 491 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:28,480 trying to find something very specific. 492 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,000 But when going back on within this historical context, I think 493 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,360 for me, there's just so much more respect because like, they 494 00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:40,040 didn't have Google to be like, hey, if we do XY and Z, what's 495 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:41,920 going to happen? Like that wasn't the thing. 496 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,160 Is there any like I guess what have been your wow moments as 497 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,200 you've been going through some of these films and pieces? 498 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,040 Yeah, I mean, there's so many. I'll try to think of a few. 499 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,520 Like one thing I learned kind of going through is when we were 500 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,560 doing these, there's a thing called a homogeneous, an aqueous 501 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:01,040 homogeneous reactor, which is a fluid fueled reactor, not molten 502 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,080 salt that uses like a water solution with uranium dissolved 503 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,240 in it. So is this like, tank with 504 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,720 complex flow patterns and with the fuel moving around inside? 505 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,080 And they didn't have CFD computational fluid dynamics. 506 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,920 We run these big simulations now and, you know, you can click a 507 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:17,880 button and it shows where all the flow is going to be. 508 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,480 So what they did this, like, blew my mind that they had some 509 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,880 kind of fluid called a milling yellow solution that somehow 510 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:30,520 changes its optical properties if the fluid's under tension. 511 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:35,560 And they built a thin plexiglass model of this vessel and they 512 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,960 pump fluid through it and let it flow sort of as like an analog. 513 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,240 Basically it's a physical model. And then they shine light 514 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,680 through it and they take pictures and you can see these 515 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,280 patterns in the picture that show where the flow patterns 516 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:48,320 are. And they were then able to 517 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,680 adjust the shape until it had stable flow, just like we would 518 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,160 do on ACFD model. And then they went and built the 519 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,560 thing out of a big expensive zirconium vessel. 520 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,400 It's really interesting to see. And then other fun things to 521 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,520 see. We have big 3D models of 522 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,120 buildings where we practice, figure out if when we're 523 00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:06,640 installing something, you can make sure it fits well. 524 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,960 Just huge. I don't know what scale it is, 525 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,880 but the models are like this big in this massive room, like 526 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,160 plastic models of the whole facility. 527 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,600 And they're sitting there planning construction and 528 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,320 planning maintenance operations with these guys, like playing 529 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,000 with these. It's like a big dollhouse 530 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,480 effectively, which I just thought that was kind of cool. 531 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,240 Even though we had a lot of these analog computers, they did 532 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,960 also use some of the world's first digital computers to do 533 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,440 reactor design. So there's some cool footage of 534 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,760 people running a computer in the early 1950s doing neutronics 535 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,920 diffusion simulation of one of the early Army micro reactors. 536 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,280 And it's just like some people say we built these reactors or 537 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,440 the slide rules. It's like, yeah, not entirely. 538 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,040 We actually ran like the world's first computer on that core as 539 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,360 well. So those are just a few kind of 540 00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:55,720 fun things that come to mind. There's so much in there. 541 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:57,760 Sorry. One other thing that was just a 542 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,080 real odd find is another one of those aqueous homogeneous 543 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,120 reactors, like burned a hole in its vessel and dumped the core. 544 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,000 It was like 100,000 Rankin per hour. 545 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,760 Radiation in there is extremely radioactive, and they built 546 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,120 these specialized tools and went down there with like a Periscope 547 00:25:14,120 --> 00:25:16,520 and repaired it remotely from the top. 548 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,280 And there's a whole film that just shows like the special 549 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,360 tools they built and the process they went through to make that 550 00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:23,960 happen. And it's wild. 551 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:28,560 It's humbling and inspiring. They're awesome stories. 552 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,160 I'm just like still processing because I'm just like, wow, 553 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:35,520 like, but I think it's, it's so fun because like when you don't 554 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,960 have let's say, like, you know, necessary, like, you know, we're 555 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,040 talking about CFD. We don't have a computer to kind 556 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:44,160 of like do that for you. It creates this like new sense 557 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,680 of, you know, problem solving of like it almost feels like really 558 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,440 hardcore engineering because you're really trying to figure 559 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,240 out like, how do we engineer this problem and try and go back 560 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,000 and fix and try and see what we're doing here. 561 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,360 Let's just build a whole town models they got. 562 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:01,800 It's like, that's just wild to me. 563 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,400 I'm like, yeah, look, we just played it. 564 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,240 What is this building? And yeah, I think one of the 565 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,400 things that would be helpful with sharing these is kind of 566 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:14,400 seeing the creativity around the industry of like, how do you 567 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,040 kind of create solutions when you don't necessarily have all 568 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,840 the quote, UN quote, fancy, you know, pious tech tools as you're 569 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:23,680 using? And that to me is like, pretty 570 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,560 impressive. Overall, and I think it kind of 571 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,280 helps, maybe it'll help solve like analysis paralysis. 572 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,280 A lot of times engineers even I've been guilty of this one to 573 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,680 like, no, we have to keep designing it until it like 574 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,600 really performs well. Like at some point it's like get 575 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,920 out there and build something and make it cheap and fast and 576 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,280 iterate on it. Like that's a pretty good 577 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:43,960 pathway. And I think that is aligned with 578 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,760 what we're seeing on some of these high speed programs to 579 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,840 build the first critical thing you can build. 580 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,760 It's not going to be a good reactor product at first, but 581 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:56,080 maybe it gets you what you need to learn really important hands 582 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,960 on lessons and then make fixes to get on a pathway to make an 583 00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:03,160 actually economical and easy to run reactor. 584 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,680 This episode is brought to you by Nuclear Talent Scout. 585 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,400 Right now we're supporting an exciting new maritime nuclear 586 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,600 venture led by today's guest, Nick Duran as Chief Nuclear 587 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,280 Officer. They're actively looking for top 588 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,040 tier talent. And if you've got the skills and 589 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,720 want to be considered, fill out the qualified candidate form 590 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,720 LinkedIn, the show notes. And if you're a licensing 591 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,520 engineer, we're definitely looking for you because the 592 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,760 future of emissions free shipping won't build itself. 593 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:41,080 Humans are still involved now. Back to the show, Yeah, I think 594 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,200 the assumptions part is like the assumptions of what it's in your 595 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:45,760 head. And you're assuming all these, 596 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,000 if you haven't ever built it, like I almost think of like, 597 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,800 wow, what ego you have to like for me at least, to think that 598 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,640 all of my assumptions that I've created are going to be right. 599 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:55,960 And I'm like, I've not even built it. 600 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,560 So I think, yeah, the idea of just getting out there and 601 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,920 building it definitely humbles you a little bit because like, 602 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,960 you can get hung up on something so simple. 603 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,120 And that's always, you know, the nice thing around actually is 604 00:28:07,120 --> 00:28:10,200 getting out and starting to build because it's always a 605 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,400 challenge when you know something very simple like, oh, 606 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,600 the road is not big enough. It's like I think about that. 607 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,360 Yeah, plans never survived their first encounter with reality. 608 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:20,400 There's. Exactly. 609 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,760 And so you're kind of mentioning how much you update the website, 610 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,080 but then also some of the things that you're doing now. 611 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,800 And we chatted before this and you'd kind of mentioned doing 612 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,400 NRC surveys. And as we're kind of shifting 613 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,480 into, OK, now we're going to start building all these 614 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,560 advanced reactors, what does the regulation look like? 615 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,280 What does the licensing look like for this? 616 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,040 And so can you just kind of describe what that NRC license 617 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,560 layer survey was, was about? Yeah, that was back in April. 618 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,760 So there was like all the rumors were flying, like the 619 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,080 administration wants to streamline regulations. 620 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:50,680 There's going to be some executive orders. 621 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,160 And so a few people got together and thought, like, we should 622 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,440 interview people across the industry and come up with a list 623 00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,400 of specific regulatory reforms that we think would be useful. 624 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,040 There was a lot of like, the regulations are the problem. 625 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,480 We need to fix regulations, but there wasn't a a lot of talk 626 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,960 about like, here's the specific changes that we think we want to 627 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,680 see. Now, to be fair, like some think 628 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,120 tanks had put stuff out like that. 629 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,000 There are policy, nuclear policy people who do this 630 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,440 professionally and really had done a good job sort of laying 631 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,640 those out. But we wanted to get a fresh 632 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,120 list and make it available for whoever the people were who are 633 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,600 building these executive orders and planning the regulatory 634 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,200 reforms, updated information, surveying people all across the 635 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,960 industry, from the operating plants to different startup 636 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,160 companies to national labs and other folks like that. 637 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:42,920 I worked with Clear Path with a think tank in the DC and went 638 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,000 and interviewed a bunch of people and did like, hey, if you 639 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,240 could change any regulation, what would it be and why? 640 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,480 And we came up with a top ten list that I threw up on a post 641 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,120 on what is nuclear in the blog post section. 642 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,960 And then we also sent through networks up to whoever to who we 643 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,880 thought might be close to the decision makers making these 644 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,000 executive orders, like not really knowing. 645 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,000 And so, yeah, a lot of the results that came out that were 646 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,400 commonly seen were things that had been said before that other 647 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,480 policy groups like Adam Stein, for instance, has all this stuff 648 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,960 memorized and knows exactly what is needed. 649 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,280 So he was a lot of it. He kind of already had. 650 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:20,760 But yeah, there were some specific things. 651 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,880 It was like continue streamlining the environmental 652 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,680 review work and like the NRC interestingly already had 653 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,240 recommended they already have a plan to continue streamlining 654 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,680 that work. It was, it's like a part, it's 655 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,760 like a rule making that's been slowed down for a while. 656 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,200 And so it's kind of like enable them to continue that thing that 657 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,480 they're working like they're on a path that was really good. 658 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,520 And so like make that keep going. 659 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,040 Another one was there's some nuanced sort of like in the 660 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,280 weeds ones. There's something called the the 661 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,280 mandatory, you know, I have to get my list up. 662 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,040 The there's, there's anyway, it's like there's hearings that 663 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,520 have to happen by law that are not necessary. 664 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,400 The uncontested mandatory hearing is an example. 665 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,400 And it's like, why do that? It takes all this time and 666 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,480 there's really no need to do it. So let's like push it through. 667 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,760 There were a few other things that the NRC had made policy 668 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,680 recommendations to have Congress go change the law so that would 669 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,040 enable them to streamline certain things. 670 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,480 And when that was first proposed, Congress was in no 671 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,120 state and it was not pro nuclear enough to go through with it. 672 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,680 But like today Congress is so pro nuclear that you could just 673 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,040 throw it up there and they'd be like sure, like ship it. 674 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,960 So it's kind of like just bringing that kind of thing back 675 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,080 up. Another one that's kind of a fun 676 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,840 one is when you build a new nuclear plant, there's 677 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,080 regulatory guidance that says you have to have like a really 678 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:48,000 tall meteorological tower in place for two years, collecting 679 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,720 weather data on that site before you can like start thinking 680 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,280 about construction of a plant. So that's like as a two year 681 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,200 delay to just get wind pattern data in case something goes 682 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,680 wrong. And it's like, well, these that 683 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,600 made sense in like the 40s, but these days with like satellites 684 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,880 and weather sensors all around, like, why not just if there's 685 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,000 enough like weather information recorded about an area, then why 686 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,480 not just analyze it and be like, yeah, that's good enough for 687 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,880 what we need and not have to do this two years of Met tower type 688 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:19,720 stuff. So anyway, there's a few other 689 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,640 things along those lines, but those are a few of the results 690 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,120 that came out. So we to sent those up the chain 691 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,200 and then the executive orders came out and one of the big ones 692 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,120 was reform, regulation, reform the NRC. 693 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:31,800 And that's still an ongoing process. 694 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,680 And I'd like to think that like some of those things that that 695 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,160 we sort of reminded ourselves of. 696 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,440 Hopefully those got in front of the right people and we'll be 697 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,080 doing something useful. I think you're like a big fear 698 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:47,880 was like, well, if you just say get rid of the NRC, a lot of the 699 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:52,000 people in the industry who have applications being reviewed and 700 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,040 like are about to get approval and don't think the regulator is 701 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,520 like their major critical path. They don't want that because it 702 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,440 throws in all this uncertainty. It opens up tons of options for 703 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,440 people to stop the process to sue or to take away the 704 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,160 liability protection like the taxpayers through Price Anderson 705 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,080 have provide a stopgap for a major nuclear accident. 706 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,760 And if the NRC is gone, then why would the taxpayers keep 707 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,520 providing liability insurance like they're not going to? 708 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,640 And so I mean, and I wouldn't blame them. 709 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,440 So you'd have to basically move all the regulators into the 710 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,240 private insurance companies. And it's just going to be like 711 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,920 20 years of confusion and slow things. 712 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,080 So let's like find the things in regulatory space that are like 713 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,800 clearly slow and clearly dumb and not needed. 714 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:39,800 And let's like get those going first. 715 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,520 And I think that's kind of what I hope that's what we're moving 716 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,920 towards now. Nice. 717 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,440 And I think it's nice that we talked about the historical 718 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,720 industry of nuclear and all of that because it feels like a lot 719 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,480 of the regulations just are kind of stuck in the 50s a little bit 720 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,640 and just kind of getting that audit of like, hey, we have 721 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,000 satellites now. This makes sense. 722 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,280 Yeah. We don't need to do that because 723 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,360 we actually can get the data like some other instead of, you 724 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,960 know, just the overall hacking of the NRC. 725 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:13,000 Because I think from a public perspective, it almost feels as 726 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,040 if, you know, anytime you say, like, get rid of a regulator, 727 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:19,000 like the public is like, yeah, and like pandemonium. 728 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:20,040 But I. Think. 729 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,320 There is a lot of misconception on the public side of what 730 00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:26,760 regulation is on the nuclear side within the nuclear 731 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:28,679 industry. So I think there's a lot of 732 00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:30,320 like, Oh my goodness, like, what are you doing? 733 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,320 But within the industry there's like, actually this doesn't make 734 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:34,840 sense. We should like reform this. 735 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,679 And so I think that's probably, you know, with that survey being 736 00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:39,520 able to see what those are. Yeah. 737 00:34:39,639 --> 00:34:42,360 Another one was like, how many like force and force drills you 738 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,120 have to do at the operating plants? 739 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,320 Like how many, like how much security theater do you really 740 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:48,560 need? This is like an interesting 741 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:49,800 question. And I mean, it's kind of 742 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,880 interesting because there is quite a lot. 743 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,920 I mean, the idea that the regulator is the only problem 744 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:59,640 and it's holding nuclear back, it's a very broadly believed 745 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,840 prospect right now and people in power in in the political world 746 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:05,880 and sort of just like across the populace. 747 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:10,400 So like not to like do a push back on it, but like, I think 748 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,680 there's this idea that now we the nuclear is becoming so 749 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:14,560 popular. They're like, well, nuclear is 750 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,320 among the safest forms of energy we have, which is true. 751 00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:21,400 There's this question of how much of that is because we have 752 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,320 very strict quality assurance. We have great standards and we 753 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,360 have a very serious regulator. There's of possibility that 754 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:33,840 nuclear is really only been able to perform so well because the 755 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,200 industry got very serious and takes safety seriously and is 756 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,480 well regulated. When you look back even in 1980, 757 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,840 light water reactors capacity factor was like 60%. 758 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,240 They were down for maintenance and now it's 92%. 759 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,160 Once you get really good at quality assurance, maybe quality 760 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,880 goes up and maybe that high regulation is part of the reason 761 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,320 we were able to get really good at operating plants very safely. 762 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,200 And there certainly were a bunch of like near misses. 763 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,880 When you talk about the Browns Ferry fire and the Salem 764 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,320 anticipated transient without scram, there's all these like 765 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,880 near miss issues that when you read them, you're like, you 766 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:11,360 know, Yikes. Like that they couldn't shut 767 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,280 that reactor down for 8 hours. Like that's not good. 768 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,440 And I'm kind of glad we have redundancy in Fire Protection 769 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,920 systems and so on. Yeah, I don't want to get rid of 770 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,640 regulations, but. But again, there are certainly 771 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,560 there's plenty of things that could be done to make it more 772 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,040 sort of appropriately regulated. Regulated in a way way that 773 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,640 doesn't kneecap the industry, but also doesn't just let people 774 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,400 run wild with a, you know, inherent there's there like high 775 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,840 radioactive material is hazardous. 776 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:39,840 I don't call it dangerous because we have it under 777 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,560 control, but it is like something you have to respect 778 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,720 and be careful with. Yeah, and I think that's a good 779 00:36:45,720 --> 00:36:50,080 point of like the safety factor, just like reading about like the 780 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,360 origins of nuclear history. I mean, I'm like, wow, they were 781 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,360 allowed to do that. Like that is crazy. 782 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,320 Like OK, but it was that learning factor that we were 783 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,840 like, oh, we learned through sometimes some mistakes to be 784 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:04,520 able to be like, oh, we shouldn't do that anymore. 785 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,400 And I think within a lot of different industries, like so I 786 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,720 background in aviation, so I had to fly and like, I remember when 787 00:37:10,720 --> 00:37:12,880 I was first flying, like my instructor was like every single 788 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,520 plaque on here is because somebody they did something at 789 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,680 one point where they needed to put that plaque on there. 790 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,480 Right, right, right, right, right, OK. 791 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,000 And you know, it's it's very similar with aerospace and like 792 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,800 astronauts and things like that. And so like the safety isn't 793 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,480 just like we just kind of like auto whim. 794 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,800 We're like, let's just do that. It's usually because somebody 795 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,000 did something pretty stupid or something lethal that we're 796 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,480 like, OK, let's walk back from there and then really see how do 797 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,720 we how do we make this appropriate for the future? 798 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,280 And so, yeah, I think that's, it's exciting that, you know, 799 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,520 that survey took place. But even just within the 800 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,800 conversation of like, it can't just be the regulator that is a 801 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,560 potential bottleneck to me that is always kind of like a I don't 802 00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,480 think so. No, I don't think it is near. 803 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:03,240 People say it took half a billion for new scale to get a 804 00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:06,040 license, and it's like, no, it took half a billion for new 805 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:10,160 scale to do the engineering and design work to the level that 806 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,640 you could first build the thing. And also, by the way, get a 807 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,400 license like those. The engineering needed to 808 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,160 finalize the design of a plant and get a license is very 809 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,320 overlapping. So it's not like all that money 810 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:23,840 is just engineering development work. 811 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,480 It's not because they had to do all the licensing things. 812 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,920 And I think it kind of brings up the horizon for nuclear. 813 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,240 I think right now we're seeing a lot of indicators within the 814 00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:35,760 industry that it's like, OK, we've got green lights coming 815 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:37,720 from here and here and people are building and it's really 816 00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:40,360 exciting. And so from your perspective, 817 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,720 what is exciting to you that you're seeing within the 818 00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:44,880 industry that you're like, oh, this is kind of fun like. 819 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,320 People are interested. Yeah, there's a lot. 820 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,200 There's so much going on. There's so much to be excited 821 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:50,880 about. I think the restarts are super 822 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,800 fun, you know, with all the Dwayne Arnold and Palisades and 823 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,040 TMI coming back or sorry, Crane coming back online. 824 00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,000 So like that's the easiest thing for sure. 825 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,960 And then like these announcements that like now 826 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,800 there's talk about refinishing the plants at VC Summer, which I 827 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,280 no one expected even like months ago. 828 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,640 So that's kind of awesome. And then other plans, I'm kind 829 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,400 of happy that there's some reviving interest in the large 830 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,440 in the large light water reactors. 831 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,080 I have been an advanced reactor guy my whole life, but I've 832 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,320 really come to respect the value of a large light water actor 833 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,320 that already has a license. We just built 2 in Georgia. 834 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,880 Yes, they were over budget, but you can only have an incomplete 835 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,000 design once. So like there's no regulatory 836 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,000 risk, there's no engineering design risk. 837 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,640 It's just like a siding and financing issue. 838 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,880 And then the advanced reactors that are the big projects like X 839 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,440 Energy, Kairos and Terra Power I think are all making making 840 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,200 really super interesting progress. 841 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,480 They all have major licensing activities going on. 842 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:52,400 The licensing is going well. Kairos got like 3 reactor test 843 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,080 reactors approved for construction that the Hermes and 844 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,840 Hermes 2, which is 2 reactors and Terra Power just got an 845 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:00,920 indication that their environment report is looking 846 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:02,960 good. So all my buddies back at Terra 847 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,840 Power are doing great and they're going to be building 848 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,080 these pretty interesting reactors out and. 849 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,120 Wyoming and X Energy in Texas and so on. 850 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,800 So that's all very cool. And then the the like race to go 851 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,000 critical for the micro reactors by, you know, nine months from 852 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,040 now or eight months from now is kind of it's sort of funny. 853 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,440 I at first thought it was pretty sort of a stunt. 854 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:27,280 It's difficult to develop to do the engineering required to make 855 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:31,800 a good reactor in eight months, but I guess it doesn't have to 856 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:33,560 be perfect. Like I think it they're like 857 00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:37,840 trying to rush and get something critical does give an urgency 858 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,280 and it's like a fun competition. I don't think they're going to 859 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:44,480 be commercially viable reactors at first, but hey, going 860 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,760 critical and splitting atoms will give these folks hands on 861 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:49,560 experience. They'll get more hands on 862 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,560 experience with high radiation, with high temperature coolants 863 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:57,040 and all that stuff is going to help them more quickly encounter 864 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:01,280 reality and start making the iterations that are necessitated 865 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,760 by physical reality. So that stuff is all pretty 866 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:05,200 exciting too. And I don't think it's 867 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,280 impossible. Like bringing enriched uranium 868 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,680 critical, you know, isn't that hard. 869 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,800 In fact, there's a whole profession, criticality safety 870 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,960 engineers, they make sure that doesn't happen on accident. 871 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:20,720 So it can't be that hard. So I am excited to see everybody 872 00:41:20,720 --> 00:41:24,080 kind of race to go critical in the small reactor space as well. 873 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:26,640 Yeah, I mean, it kind of definitely goes back to, you 874 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:28,680 know, what we're talking about in the historical context of 875 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:30,680 like, hey, sometimes you just got to get out there and build 876 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,160 something and see what fails and see what works and go back to 877 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,280 the lab and iterate again. And they didn't. 878 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:38,200 Yeah. They didn't usually say do it in 879 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,920 nine months. It was usually like 2 years. 880 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,080 But hey, let's get something going and then we'll iterate 881 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:44,040 based on that. It's great. 882 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,760 Yeah, I think that's a helpful kind of at least, you know, even 883 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,400 from like the outside perspective of of like just the 884 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,320 general public to see like, wow, like this industry is like 885 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:58,160 actually like really moving, you know, considering it always has 886 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:04,240 this connotation of being like very slow and bureaucratic and 887 00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:06,920 just a lot of paperwork. And I think now we're kind of 888 00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,520 seeing, you know, people kind of like, hey, we're going to start 889 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,440 accelerating and start moving a little bit faster. 890 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,200 We have. Yeah, let's, let's get these 891 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,640 reactors going. I really want to like people. 892 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:18,920 I'm so sick of people talking about their cost estimates 893 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:20,560 without having ever built a reactor. 894 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,040 So I'm so excited to for people to be able to say like, look, 895 00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,360 that reactor is running right now and it cost this much to 896 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:28,320 build and though it cost this much to operate. 897 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,600 The second one, it's like, great, I can make a decision 898 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,640 based on that very real information rather than kind of 899 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:37,040 trying to say like, is this guy, are they missing something or 900 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,360 are they being more aggressive than the last people I talked 901 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:40,640 to? It's like everything is going to 902 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,200 get normalized by physical. Reality. 903 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,760 And I think right now it kind of feels like reading tea leaves or 904 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,440 like, like, you just throw the bones up and you're like, no. 905 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,400 And like, it's impossible to know a reactor cost without 906 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:54,000 operating. That's another thing that came 907 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,200 up in these films in the history of things. 908 00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:59,600 There's a great story like Alvin Weinberg wrote a autobiography 909 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,440 in the 90s called The First Nuclear Era. 910 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,960 It's like the best book and he kind of talks about, it's pretty 911 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,440 short, easy read, but very fascinating. 912 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,760 And he tells stories about how they thought for sure they had a 913 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,720 super cheap reactor this time, but once they turned it on, all 914 00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:17,200 these things happened that they just totally didn't expect and 915 00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,680 it made it uneconomical. And so yet again, they learned 916 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,720 that you cannot know the cost of your reactor until you have the 917 00:43:22,720 --> 00:43:26,640 full system up and running. Like that's just the message is 918 00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:28,720 kind of hammered in. And I really think it's true. 919 00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:31,200 So I'm glad we can like get back to that point. 920 00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,360 Kind of like, you know, the talks of like paper reactors 921 00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,520 versus real reactors. Yeah, you can kind of go on and 922 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:38,400 on and on about like all the really cool things you can do 923 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:39,520 with the paper reactor. Great. 924 00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:40,600 Cool. What's it cost? 925 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,880 And there's, yeah, there's this headline I keep referring to 926 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:45,920 from 1988 in Fort St. Vrain. 927 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,360 The headline in the New York Times said world's safest 928 00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,120 reactor is shutting down because it rarely runs. 929 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,280 It was a TRISO fueled, gas cooled reactor, and it had so 930 00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,520 many maintenance problems that it just never was online because 931 00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,600 they're always fixing something and so just shut down forever. 932 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:05,080 So like, even if you make the world's safest reactor, you may 933 00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,600 not be anywhere near an economical situation. 934 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:09,960 It's very interesting and instructive. 935 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:11,960 Yeah, I think that's a helpful thing to keep in mind. 936 00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,880 If it's for people understanding like safest doesn't necessarily 937 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:16,800 mean that it's actually going to be commercial, so. 938 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,200 Yeah, exactly. And that goes for fusion as 939 00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,400 well. Like fusion is kind of like our 940 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,440 fuel will be free. I'm like, well, fission fuel is 941 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,760 like 10% of the total cost. So even if it were free, like 942 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,040 you still have like a big machine that you're operating 943 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,400 and like tritium all over the place. 944 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,680 Like there's like who knows? Like I'm 100% ensure that fusion 945 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,720 will eventually make net energy, but I'm like 0% sure that it 946 00:44:39,720 --> 00:44:42,240 will ever be economical. Like maybe, but like we just 947 00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:43,560 have no way of knowing. Yeah. 948 00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:45,160 First we gotta get to the table. Yeah. 949 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,600 So I think overall, what's really fun like about you and 950 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,560 your story and just kind of the amount of public education that 951 00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:56,400 you've been doing is how do you balance all of that and like how 952 00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:57,880 do you kind of follow your interests? 953 00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,640 I think it's one of those things that, you know, being able to 954 00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,080 kind of go on the website and kind of see all the things that 955 00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:06,720 you've produced and created. It's really easy for me to 956 00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:08,840 consume it and be like, all right, cool next video. 957 00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,360 But there's a person behind it that's like actually creating 958 00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,280 all this stuff. What is that like for you? 959 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,000 Well, first, yeah, in terms of creating the films that are 960 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,280 really digitized, like I didn't create the like, I'm just, I'm 961 00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,280 just getting them digitized and so much effort went into them. 962 00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:25,760 And I feel like it's just a tiny effort on my part to get them 963 00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,560 digitized and put them online where so many more people can 964 00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:30,040 see them than have ever seen them. 965 00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,440 And so I was, I just feel like I'm kind of just lightly 966 00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,280 amplifying the thing that does the work of like hundreds of 967 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,880 people who made those films. But more to your point, it takes 968 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:41,320 a lot of time and I do it. It's sort of it's a big hobby. 969 00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,440 I mean, I was working at, you know, when you're working a full 970 00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,360 time job and then you eat dinner and and you're like, I guess 971 00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:48,880 I'll work on more nuclear stuff, like for fun. 972 00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:50,000 It's kind of like, what are you doing? 973 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:52,520 Let's see. I think a part of it is like, 974 00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,440 and hopefully this won't change, but my wife is like very, she's 975 00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,360 like very intense worker. She's a physician and she works 976 00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:01,440 all the time. We go on vacation, have fun and 977 00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:03,280 stuff. But a lot of the time like she 978 00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,520 entertains herself and I can entertain myself and I do like 979 00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,320 nuclear stuff as a hobby. We did just have, as you know, 980 00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,400 we have like a seven week old first child. 981 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,280 So maybe everything will change. Maybe the website's dead now, 982 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,320 but also like when people are like, hey, you got to watch this 983 00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:22,000 TV show. I'm usually like, no, because I 984 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,440 want to work on my website. I mean, I'll watch TV shows, but 985 00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:27,840 I try to avoid. I'm definitely susceptible to 986 00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,240 like getting hooked in and binge watching stuff. 987 00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:33,440 And I try like somewhat consciously to like not do it 988 00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:37,280 too much just cuz I feel like it's somehow more fun or I don't 989 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,120 know, helpful to do the nuclear stuff. 990 00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,840 I mean, the truth is I enjoy it. Like I, I like that stuff. 991 00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,840 It's fun to read. I have the X account going where 992 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,280 there's like 22,000 people who whenever I find some, I'm just 993 00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,240 reading through old documents and I find a cool picture, 994 00:46:53,240 --> 00:46:56,760 screenshot it and throw it on X. And like, you know, a bunch of 995 00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,200 people start talking about it and have fun with it. 996 00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,160 So it's sort of addicting in the sense like I think I've found a 997 00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,560 niche of people who are interested in this kind of thing 998 00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:08,320 and I can kind of pro stuff at the social medias and off they 999 00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:09,880 go. And when I put those videos up, 1000 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,800 you know the one of them got 200,000 views, you know, which 1001 00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,520 isn't a lot in YouTube space, but it's a lot for an old 1002 00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:16,960 nuclear. Yeah, not in the nuclear. 1003 00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:20,720 Space. So it's kind of fun. 1004 00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:23,960 I like it. It's entertaining and I've been 1005 00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,240 lucky to have time in space to work on it. 1006 00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,480 Yeah, that's awesome. I think what's really funny 1007 00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,240 right now is the idea of influencers and content 1008 00:47:33,240 --> 00:47:36,080 creators. It's very catchy and trendy 1009 00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,440 talking to you. You created your own website. 1010 00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:41,600 You did a lot of the code. I think you might have been one 1011 00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,440 of the first content creators for nuclear energy. 1012 00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:48,080 So like that's a kind of a fun. You know, it's a lot of text. 1013 00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:50,880 It's a little old school, but yeah, Rod Adams has me beat. 1014 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,600 Rod Adams was doing his podcast the years before me. 1015 00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,160 But yeah, I think we're pretty early on the overall list of 1016 00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,640 people. OK, so the last kind of portion 1017 00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,320 of the show is our rapid fire questions. 1018 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:04,440 Some of them are not nuclear related. 1019 00:48:04,720 --> 00:48:08,560 So the first one, do you have other hobbies outside of new? 1020 00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:11,320 Where? I used to when I just moved from 1021 00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,520 Seattle a year ago. I really love going out and 1022 00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:15,440 doing day hikes and paddle boarding. 1023 00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,360 I spent tons of time paddle boarding out on Union, just 1024 00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:19,960 getting outside and doing stuff like that. 1025 00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:23,920 Since I moved I I haven't quite discovered as much outdoors. 1026 00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:26,880 But also this is a lame hobby but hanging out with my dog, 1027 00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:29,800 walking, playing fetch with the dog, Super fun and spending the 1028 00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,200 ton of time at dog parks and getting to know people. 1029 00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:34,280 My whole friend group in Seattle is dog park. 1030 00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,600 We go to the bar afterwards. So yeah, that kind of thing is 1031 00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:39,280 those are other hobbies, I guess. 1032 00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:42,560 Yeah, I would say same. I have obviously, as you can 1033 00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:45,000 see, my kids are back here. What kind of dog do you have? 1034 00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:47,680 A golden retriever named Waffles. 1035 00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,560 She's downstairs. She sometimes comes in here but. 1036 00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,320 Oh I'm in love already. That's awesome. 1037 00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:58,640 OK, so next question, if you had to give a non nuclear Ted talk, 1038 00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:02,640 what topic would it be about? No, a non nuclear Ted talk. 1039 00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,240 Wow. I'm like so invested in nuclear 1040 00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:07,680 stuff. It would be about a startup idea 1041 00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:11,200 I had years ago called neighbor casting, which is like basically 1042 00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:13,880 already been done. It's like Craigslist, but you 1043 00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:17,360 just you can like go on a map and say like I need to, does 1044 00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,520 anyone have some sugar? And you go on a map and you like 1045 00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:23,040 draw us a radius for how how far that would broadcast, you know, 1046 00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,040 over the Internet. And then only people within that 1047 00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,280 circle could like respond and replace. 1048 00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:29,840 So it's like a somewhat localized map driven form of 1049 00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:31,800 Craigslist, which I think this has been made by now. 1050 00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,640 But it's like really you can then do, you could do like ride 1051 00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:35,680 share. We're like, I need to go from 1052 00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:38,080 this circle to this circle. Like who's going? 1053 00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:40,360 So that becomes like an Uber type of thing. 1054 00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:43,800 And it just takes over like all sorts of cool Internet things. 1055 00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:47,280 I always thought that was like a fun Ted talk, like startup 1056 00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:48,560 request for startup. Yeah. 1057 00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,080 I like that idea as well because it's like there's so many times 1058 00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,920 where I just need something very specific, but I don't want to 1059 00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:56,760 buy it myself. I'm like, I'm going to use it 1060 00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:58,880 once. It's not going to be like, yeah, 1061 00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:00,880 it's. And for yeah, like a tool share, 1062 00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:01,880 like hey. I need this like. 1063 00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:03,960 Special tool, I don't want to buy it because I'm only going to 1064 00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:05,680 use it one time. It's the same thing like, and 1065 00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:07,520 there's so many people, you know, we live in these dense 1066 00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,080 areas like there's and somebody. 'S going to have one. 1067 00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:12,480 Yeah, totally. Do you have any type of favorite 1068 00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,280 music that you listen to while working or just like mid life? 1069 00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,600 I, I have like a few different genres, pretty basic stuff. 1070 00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:22,840 I listen to old late 90s techno sometimes like while I'm 1071 00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:26,640 working, I can like zone out to that like house music from back 1072 00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:28,360 in the day. I worked at a hardware store and 1073 00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,040 there was this older guy who's probably like 25 when I was in 1074 00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:34,320 high school and he introduced me to this techno stuff from back 1075 00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,080 then. I just thought it was so cool. 1076 00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:39,280 And that's kind of carried over so I still can zone out to it. 1077 00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,680 And I like classic stuff like, you know, Tom Petty, I'll listen 1078 00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:44,640 to that. The Traveling Wilburys. 1079 00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:46,040 I do have a list. Do a Lipa. 1080 00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:50,360 I really like Do a Lipa sort of eclectic, and these days it's 1081 00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:51,720 like Pandora. Whatever. 1082 00:50:51,720 --> 00:50:54,880 Whatever comes on shuffle. But I do have AI like have 1083 00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:58,400 maintained I like still buy MP3's off Amazon and like 1084 00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:00,880 they're on my computer and I like play them through my house 1085 00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,880 on this like networked thing. So I'm a little it's like my 1086 00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,280 generation we were into like Napster and MP3's, but I like 1087 00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:08,480 buy them now, so. Right. 1088 00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:10,080 Yeah, I can say I can visualize them. 1089 00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:13,640 I had the 90s techno. I feel like a kind of a computer 1090 00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,080 coder. Early 2000s, definitely. 1091 00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:17,280 Been listening. To some, yeah. 1092 00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:18,560 Total No. Yep. 1093 00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,800 Yeah, right on. OK, so this last one is kind of 1094 00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,560 tricky. Can you give your best piece of 1095 00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:31,240 advice in 5 words? Oh, and this is advice to like 1096 00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:34,120 young people or just. Yeah, young people, that'll be 1097 00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:36,080 good advice. Well, that they want to hear 1098 00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:40,520 from me. A specific interest can guide. 1099 00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:46,200 Specific interest can guide you. OK, I like it. 1100 00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:47,720 Specific interests can guide you. 1101 00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,600 Yeah, or maybe like I should say, general interest can guide 1102 00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,520 you like OK, what I'm because it's. 1103 00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:54,640 Just framework, there's no rules. 1104 00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:58,160 Point being like just have the fact that I was interested in 1105 00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:01,440 energy was very helpful. I am interested in energy. 1106 00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:04,760 Like that really helped me make a lot of decisions easily. 1107 00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:06,080 And I think there's no wrong decision. 1108 00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:08,600 Like you can go on so many different paths, but just having 1109 00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:11,600 something like that has been helpful to kind of help me 1110 00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:15,000 choose some of the big decisions like going to college and choose 1111 00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,520 a major and that kind of thing. Nice. 1112 00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:19,080 Right on. I think that is helpful because 1113 00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:21,240 there's just all these different things, especially as a young 1114 00:52:21,240 --> 00:52:23,000 person, you're like. Yeah, the whole. 1115 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:27,560 Entire world and you're like lastly, so people who want to 1116 00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:29,720 know more about you, I guess this is The Who to follow in 1117 00:52:29,720 --> 00:52:32,280 nuclear. Where can they go to follow you? 1118 00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:38,520 So I have all the socials and it's always like what is nuclear 1119 00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:42,080 or whatisnuclear.com? So I have XI, have Blue Sky, I 1120 00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:45,320 have Truth Social and I have a Facebook. 1121 00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,200 Yeah, I'm definitely most active on X. 1122 00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:51,400 That's been my Kovid hobby. And then of course, 1123 00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:55,800 whatisnuclear.com, I try to throw there in the news section. 1124 00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:58,560 It does have like, I don't know, 1 uses RSS anymore. 1125 00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:00,760 I wish they did, but there was a thing called Google Reader like 1126 00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,920 20 years ago and it was awesome. And so I try to like make sure 1127 00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:06,920 when I update the website that like you can get a notification 1128 00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,600 from it. But really like X and Blue Sky 1129 00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:11,760 and Truth Social. I sometimes if I do a big post, 1130 00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:13,920 I kind of like just dump it on all three of those. 1131 00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,360 X is where I like, I'm having most of my conversations and 1132 00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:19,600 stuff. A huge thank you to Nick Duran 1133 00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:22,640 for joining us today and for the work he's doing to make nuclear 1134 00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:26,440 energy understandable, accessible, and a little less 1135 00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,120 mysterious than humans insist on making it. 1136 00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,480 You can follow Nick and explore his incredible library of 1137 00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:39,280 resources at whatisnuclear.com. If you're a student, career 1138 00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:44,160 Switcher, investor, policy nerd, or just gloriously curious, it's 1139 00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,960 worth your time. And if you enjoyed this episode, 1140 00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,160 share it with a friend, leave a review, and subscribe to Naked 1141 00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:54,800 Nuclear for more conversations with the people shaping the 1142 00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:58,960 future of energy. Until next time, stay curious.