1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,080 My sophomore year in college, I found myself chatting at tea 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:09,120 time in the Institute for Advanced Study, just in the 3 00:00:09,120 --> 00:00:11,520 shadow of Princeton Universities campus. 4 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:15,800 This facility is where brilliant minds like Albert Einstein, 5 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:19,440 Charles Oppenheimer, and Emily Noter studied. 6 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,640 My IQ certainly did not warrant an invitation into the 7 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:28,040 prestigious facility. However, I did share the same 8 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,480 exact name as a brilliant political science researcher 9 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:36,120 there, Danielle S Allen. How we met is a story for 10 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:40,880 another time, but what struck me at this tea time for geniuses 11 00:00:41,160 --> 00:00:45,800 was the wide array of studies. I listened to the various 12 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:49,520 researchers talk about their backgrounds, and one scientist 13 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,520 introduced himself and said he worked at the Princeton Plasma 14 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,960 Physics Laboratory. Princeton has a plasma lab? 15 00:00:57,560 --> 00:00:59,840 I asked. Well, no. 16 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:02,200 The Department of Energy has a plasma lab. 17 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:07,600 Princeton just manages it. And that's when I learned about 18 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,840 the Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory, a National 19 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,840 Laboratory owned by the Department of Energy. 20 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,280 Today on Naked Nuclear, we're going to be talking to Doctor 21 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,720 Arturo Dominguez, PPPL's lead science education officer. 22 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:26,400 We'll be talking about the mysterious history of PPPLA 23 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,960 crash course in what plasma and fusion actually are, and a 24 00:01:30,960 --> 00:01:34,360 completely free course that's giving students from around the 25 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,480 world a front row seat to fusion energy. 26 00:01:39,320 --> 00:01:45,240 So first, is it bad that I had no idea where PPPL was located 27 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,840 before this episode? Or that it's run by the 28 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,840 Department of Energy? No, we are hidden. 29 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,440 We are hidden away and historically a bit on purpose 30 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,960 because we are, if you know the area, we're actually across from 31 00:01:59,960 --> 00:02:02,000 Route 1. So it's if you're going to walk 32 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,360 it, you better carve it out in your calendar. 33 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:06,920 And it's actually pretty tough to get here and crossing to 34 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,840 Route One if you're walking. But yeah, we're hidden away 35 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,120 close, about 3 miles away from the main campus, yes. 36 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:20,120 So why is there a hidden plasma physics lab 3 miles away from 37 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:24,480 Princeton's campus? We actually started as a secret 38 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,040 project called Project Matterhorn by our founder, 39 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,440 Professor Lyman Spitzer of the Astrophysics department at 40 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,960 Princeton University. And we started right after the 41 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,680 Second World War. And this is a good time for 42 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,480 people to to get a sense of what the Department of Energy labs 43 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,640 are because of Oppenheimer. If you've seen the movie 44 00:02:43,640 --> 00:02:47,160 Oppenheimer, you know that during World War 2, the 45 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:51,120 government undertook the plan to construct and build these labs 46 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,840 that brought in really smart minds from all over the country 47 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,920 to work on big projects. And for World War Two, it was 48 00:02:57,920 --> 00:03:00,520 working in big projects related to the war. 49 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,960 But after the war, a lot of labs were founded and became 50 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:09,680 incorporated from the Department of Energy to tackle big science, 51 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:13,560 to tackle the science that really can't be done at a 52 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,120 university level. That has to be like very big 53 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,760 projects. So for example, at in 54 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,520 Oppenheimer, they highlight Los Alamos National Lab, which was 55 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,240 where where Oppenheimer was situated, but also Oakridge, 56 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:30,680 which is in Tennessee. And I believe they touch upon 57 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,640 Lawrence Livermore with the folks over in, in California. 58 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,640 So those are, you know, the biggest labs or some of the 59 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,640 biggest labs. There's actually 17 Department 60 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,680 of Energy labs and we are one of the smallest. 61 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:45,760 We are Princeton Plasma physics lab. 62 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,120 Again, as I was mentioning, we started as a secret project 63 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:53,240 called Project Matterhorn, which was trying to understand and 64 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,480 harness the power of fusion, right? 65 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:01,640 And while there was a dual defense and energy mission of 66 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:05,280 the lab, when it started, very quickly it transitioned towards 67 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:09,520 what is now PPPL, the Princeton Plasma Physics Lab to focus 68 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,640 solely in energy. We became public in the early 69 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,480 60s. So so we've been the Prince of 70 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,360 Plasma physics lab since the early 60s. 71 00:04:19,399 --> 00:04:23,320 Bringing us into today, obviously they do plasma 72 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,640 research, but what does that research look like? 73 00:04:28,280 --> 00:04:32,600 As the name suggests, Princeton Plasma Physics Lab, we are all 74 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,120 things plasma, right? So OK, so let me step back a 75 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,080 second. Plasma is we commonly know it as 76 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:42,520 the 4th state of matter. You have solid, which is a 77 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:44,640 coldest. You heat a solid up, you get 78 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:46,600 liquid. You heat a liquid up, you get 79 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,680 gas. If you heat up a gas up enough, 80 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:54,800 you get a plasma, right, which is different from a gas because 81 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:59,160 the particles in the plasma, a lot of them are ionized, a lot 82 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:03,000 of them have separated the electron from the nucleus of the 83 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,560 atom. And so as opposed to a gas in 84 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:10,200 which all the particles or 99.99% of particles are neutral, 85 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,480 in a plasma there's enough charged particles that it 86 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,040 behaves like an entirely new state of matter, In this case, 87 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,920 plasma. More than 99% of the visible 88 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:25,040 universe is plasma. So understanding the universe 89 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,160 really requires understanding plasma. 90 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:32,280 And so the big three missions of our lab are to develop the 91 00:05:32,280 --> 00:05:35,560 science and technology for fusion energy, which is really 92 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,760 what we'll talk about the most today and really the biggest 93 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,200 mission of our lab. A second one is utilizing 94 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:47,720 plasmas for microelectronics and Electro manufacturing. 95 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,920 So these are what we typically call low temperature plasmas, 96 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:55,040 which is really a misnomer because they're pretty hot, but 97 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,360 none the less they're much colder than than fusion relevant 98 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,160 plasmas. But these are related to, for 99 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:05,640 example, the processes that you need to make semiconductors. 100 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:07,880 If you know about Moore's law, right? 101 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,840 This law that tells you how quickly the progress in in 102 00:06:11,840 --> 00:06:15,680 transistor technology has evolved since the invention of 103 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,760 the transistors. And it's an exponential rise 104 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:24,160 from like the 80s, the processes that have led to Moore's law, 105 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,880 all of them have had to do with plasma, right? 106 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:31,880 Because in order to control the processes that you need to make 107 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:37,360 the nanometer scale details of semiconductors, You can't do it 108 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,600 by having a, a really good pulse. 109 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,320 You, you have to do it with, with advanced techniques. 110 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,040 And plasmas are really important part of that. 111 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:50,520 So we have a whole area which has been growing in recent years 112 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:57,240 that really dives into this area of microelectronics and closely 113 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:01,040 connected quantum information science like utilizing plasma 114 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,840 techniques for quantum computing, for example. 115 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,000 That's a whole realm that has been growing especially 116 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,640 recently. And the third mission of our lab 117 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:13,240 is what I started with understanding the universe, so 118 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,640 the plasma universe, so understanding astrophysical 119 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:21,040 plasma processes, what determines the rate of solar 120 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,400 flares and coronal mass ejections? 121 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,840 Because the sun is made out of plasma, and every once in a 122 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:31,360 while it has these explosive bursts that are plasma 123 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,840 phenomena. So one of the big missions that 124 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:38,240 we have is understanding this phenomena and understanding what 125 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,000 scales and what parameters dominate these phenomena. 126 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,320 So we can understand it much better and maybe even help us 127 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,560 protect our electrical grid, right? 128 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,560 So it's to that level. So as I said, understanding the 129 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,720 universe requires understanding plasmas, and that's one of the 130 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:56,600 big missions we have. The fascinating part about this 131 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:00,520 type of research is how it scales from the microscopic to 132 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,200 macroscopic nanometers to light years. 133 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,280 So how did Doctor Dominguez get his start in plasma? 134 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,520 Yes, that's actually one of our pitches. 135 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,160 It's understanding the universe from the nano to the 136 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,360 astrophysical. All of this has to do with 137 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,440 plasmas. Yeah, I started studying physics 138 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:24,160 in my native Bogota, Colombia. I'm actually from Colombia. 139 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:26,440 I was excited about physics in school. 140 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:30,640 I was actually, I got hooked by a brief history of Time, right? 141 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,080 This was when you talk to a bunch of physicists, you know, 142 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,360 that one brief history of time always comes up. 143 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:37,720 I got really excited about physics there. 144 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,400 And so I started studying physics in the National 145 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,760 University of Columbia, but then I transferred to the University 146 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:46,480 of Texas at Austin, Holcomb Horns. 147 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:51,560 I'm contractually obligated. So I finished my undergrad in 148 00:08:51,560 --> 00:08:55,120 physics at University of Texas at Austin and just 149 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:59,880 serendipitously, I needed a job and I wanted to, you know, work 150 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:02,480 in a lab. And there was a professor that I 151 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:06,200 had good chemistry with, Professor Ken Gentle at the 152 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:10,640 University of Texas at Austin. And he just was a plasma 153 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:12,920 synthesis. So I, I worked in his lab. 154 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:15,360 I barely knew anything about plasmas. 155 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,600 And I worked on helping construct A reactor like a, a 156 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,600 fusion experimental reactor at the University of Texas at 157 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:25,320 Austin. And when I started learning 158 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,320 about it in my last couple of years of undergrad, I got 159 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,240 hooked. I mean, the, we'll talk a little 160 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:34,240 bit about fusion, but but the mission of fusion and what can 161 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,360 come about once we develop fusion, it's really something 162 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,040 that you want to dedicate your life to. 163 00:09:39,560 --> 00:09:44,600 So I got excited about it and did a senior thesis on fusion, 164 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:50,480 and I was able to do my graduate work at MIT, where I worked in 165 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:54,280 the in the Plasma Science and Fusion Center on a magnetic 166 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,640 fusion device that was called Alcator CMOD. 167 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:02,480 I worked on a instrument that detected density and the plasma 168 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,400 using something similar to radar. 169 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:08,480 We would send electromagnetic waves into the machine and once 170 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,040 they bounced back, you could analyze them and get to know 171 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:13,640 about what's happening in the machine. 172 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,840 I was learning and, you know, got excited about fusion, but I 173 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,960 was also getting excited about outreach. 174 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:25,600 When we are at the PSFC Plasma Science and Fusion Center, all 175 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:30,160 grad students were required to give tours and to participate in 176 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,240 outreach activities. And so when I started doing it, 177 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:37,760 I like really saw my calling and I got excited about it. 178 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,200 Would give a lot of tours, would participate in outreach 179 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,920 activities. And when I was about to 180 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,320 graduate, there was an opportunity here at the lab to 181 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,360 work in this department that I now run, the science education 182 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,640 department to do a postdoc in science education. 183 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:57,400 And it was either this or working on instruments on what 184 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:01,760 we call diagnostics for fusion. And yeah, I decided to go in 185 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,040 this round and I've never looked back. 186 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,000 And I got to say, it kind of connects to one of the big 187 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:12,280 thrusts that I have in our department, which is I want 188 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,600 students to at the end of their undergrad to be in plasma and 189 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,600 fusion. Not because randomly a professor 190 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,680 was, they had good country with a professor, but because they 191 00:11:22,680 --> 00:11:27,720 actually learned about plasmas and fusion and and like just got 192 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:31,200 hooked because of the science. And this will connect to what 193 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:32,800 we'll talk about of the intro course. 194 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:37,120 I really want students to find out about what we do early 195 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:41,320 because plasma and fusion just isn't really taught. 196 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:45,520 Even in R1 schools and schools that are really big at the 197 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:49,360 physics level, there are very few schools actually dive deep 198 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,120 into plasmas and fusion. So one of the missions that we 199 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,800 have is to try to reach the future workforce and getting 200 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,640 them to get excited about plasma and fusion early on. 201 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,800 Well, PPPL has a two week introduction to plasma course. 202 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,640 Let's see how this offering came together. 203 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:13,080 I inherited this course or the previous versions to this course 204 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,080 from a program that was called a National Undergraduate 205 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,960 Fellowship. And this was run out of PBPL 206 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,680 since the 90s. And so this was an internship 207 00:12:23,680 --> 00:12:26,440 program that would position students all over the country. 208 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:31,240 And they would start with a week in person class, of course, 209 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,120 taught by different professors in the field to learn the basics 210 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,360 of plasma and fusion, right? And it was pretty in depth. 211 00:12:38,560 --> 00:12:43,200 It was about 30 students would get to attend every year, a one 212 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:49,120 week intensive course. When I joined very early on, the 213 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:54,840 enough program was stopped and I was connected to a bigger 214 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:58,440 program out of the Office of Science, the Department of 215 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:02,320 Energy's main funder of this research called Sully Science 216 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,200 Undergraduate Laboratory Internship. 217 00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:07,880 So if you know about internships, the big one that 218 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,440 people know about are Reus. These are funded by the National 219 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,600 Science Foundation, NSF. Sully is kind of the sibling of 220 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,760 our use, but coming out of the Department of Energy, that's the 221 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:22,720 main internship that we run. And so connected to that, we 222 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:27,320 decided to continue this course. Enough had already been 223 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,400 defunded, so we continued it out of Sully. 224 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,720 But what I decided to do very early on to remember this was 225 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,400 2015, very early on, was make it hybrid. 226 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:42,720 I wanted to stream the lectures live and upload them into our 227 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,560 website so that we could democratize it some more and get 228 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:48,400 more people to benefit from this. 229 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,920 And so we did this. And lo and behold, five years 230 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:56,080 later, this hybrid technology really served us during the 231 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,400 pandemic. We revamped the course to make 232 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:04,520 it fully virtual in 2020 and open to to everybody. 233 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,040 We opened it up, we made it fully virtual. 234 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:10,000 We did it to satisfy both the West Coast and East Coast. 235 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,840 So we did two weeks of afternoon sessions in the east, in the 236 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:18,320 East Coast. So noon to 5 Eastern, which, you 237 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:23,840 know, was like 9 to 2 Pacific for two weeks and fully remote. 238 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,160 And it started building a following. 239 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:30,840 We started getting folks signing up from all over the world. 240 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,400 And from a typical year where we would have 30 to 40 241 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:40,440 participants, now in, you know, 2324, we are having 1000 242 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:42,360 registrants from all over the world. 243 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:46,600 We upload all the lectures and open the Zooms for questions. 244 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:51,920 So it's a really open venue for folks to learn about the work 245 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:56,000 that we do here at the lab and in the fusion and plasma 246 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,920 ecosystem of the US. That's a big idea. 247 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,160 One of the unique attributes about this course is the hallway 248 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,960 discussions, where students can ask questions and make 249 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,480 conversation with industry leaders and fusion researchers 250 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,520 all across the country. Originally an in person course 251 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:21,680 for DOE interns, this evolved into a free online summer course 252 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,080 attended by over 1000 students worldwide. 253 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:30,200 It features 27 guest lectures from across the US fusion 254 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:34,840 ecosystem designed for curious undergrads with STEM interests, 255 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:36,960 even if they haven't studied plasma. 256 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:41,600 But how does Doctor Dominguez and the PPPL team recruit so 257 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:43,880 many top instructors for the class? 258 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,480 But first, a message from our sponsors. 259 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,120 How do you become successful in the job market? 260 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,440 If you're listening to Season 2 of the podcast, you know that 261 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,480 networking is key. 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I try to have, for the most 273 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,960 part, a full new roster every year, right? 274 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,480 Keep in mind these are like 27 lectures. 275 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:53,760 So I do spend, you know, the majority of the spring just 276 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:57,840 going to people that I've either met or that I know from 277 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:01,560 conferences or from, you know, from different venues to give 278 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,760 these lectures, right? And so it is, it's literally 279 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,040 plenty of years that have been in the field, learning the 280 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,040 people that I've known from them and then recommendations from 281 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,400 past speakers. And so it's great to have like 282 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,960 senior scientists and folks that are really well established in 283 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,240 the field. But I, I really try to get the 284 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,079 opportunity to highlight early career folks. 285 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:28,319 And so when you see I, my only rule of thumb is that they 286 00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:32,120 should be either early in the industry or, or past PhD. 287 00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:37,320 So, so postdocs or early career researchers at companies, but 288 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,720 that's it, right? And that they, you know, are 289 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,200 passionate about it and, and we'll give pedagogical lectures. 290 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,480 So we have a lot of repetition of topics. 291 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,040 Of course, we always have sort of an introduction of plasma and 292 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:54,000 plasma waves and turbulence. So I, everybody knows some of 293 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,080 the slides that you're presenting now you will get from 294 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:00,440 a past speaker and you will be expected to pass on to your next 295 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:04,000 speaker if necessary. But I do encourage everybody to 296 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:08,560 put their own spin on the talks and to focus on what is really 297 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,720 important for them, right? So it is, there's a lot of 298 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,920 Evergreen topics within the lectures, but there's also every 299 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,440 year I have a couple of completely new topics. 300 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,800 It's exciting. It, it really, I try to reflect 301 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:26,360 the evolution of the fusion and plasma ecosystem in the US. 302 00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:29,200 It's not stagnant. It's actually, it's actually 303 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,440 growing and evolving continuously. 304 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,280 And I really want this course to and I really put a lot of effort 305 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,360 for this course to be have its finger on the pulse of what's 306 00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:40,120 happening in the in the ecosystem. 307 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:47,520 So far, we've learned that PPPL's free summer course isn't 308 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:51,280 just a lecture series, it's a full blown ecosystem. 309 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:56,040 From foundational plasma physics to real world applications in 310 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,960 semiconductors and space weather, the course gives 311 00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:03,200 students a rare glimpse into the beating heart of fusion 312 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,080 research. It's intentionally designed for 313 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:10,040 accessibility, with speakers who know how to teach and a 314 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,800 structure that welcomes students who might not have prior 315 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,400 exposure. One of the coolest innovations 316 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:20,320 is the Hallway Talks, informal Zoom breakout rooms that mimic 317 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:24,040 the kind of side conversations students might have after class. 318 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,840 And it's often in those unscripted moments that students 319 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,400 start to ask the really big questions. 320 00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:35,920 But how do you create a course series that meets the need of 321 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:40,440 numerous students? That's a really good question 322 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:42,480 and I think the answer is multi fold. 323 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,520 Number one, we have 10 years of lectures uploaded, right. 324 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:51,560 So when in doubt, go back to one of any of the previous ones and 325 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:53,320 take a look at the level of the content. 326 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,760 And so I definitely encourage folks if they don't, if they're 327 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:59,640 not sure, just take a look at the lectures, certainly guidance 328 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:04,840 to the speakers. To focus on, to gear it towards 329 00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:08,200 undergrads that are excited about STEM, that maybe have 330 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:13,600 learned some electromagnetism, that no calculus, maybe pre 331 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,600 calculus, that kind of that level and to, to tailor the 332 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,040 presentations to that audience. I definitely don't go to a 333 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:25,200 graduate level talk, right. And in that regard, actually 334 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,800 going back to the speakers that I, that I ask for, if you go to 335 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,080 senior scientists, unless they're really pedagogical, they 336 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,480 will give past presentations, right? 337 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,040 And they will give past presentations that are typically 338 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,360 for graduate level, because that's the topics, right? 339 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:47,040 So many times I've had to like, you know, go back and say this 340 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,920 lecture was very over the top, like, you know, give feedback to 341 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:53,600 the speaker. So so that's that actually is 342 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,920 some guidance that I give the the speakers make sure that it 343 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,400 is for that audience for a mid undergrad, maybe somewhat 344 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,800 advanced undergrad excited about Stan, but maybe doesn't know 345 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,880 everything. And so when you look at the 346 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:11,720 lectures, the way I've kept it broadly is we start out with a 347 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:15,280 very big, like big picture. What is fusion? 348 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,040 Why is it important? Why do we think it's 349 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,480 revolutionary? Then we have two days, three 350 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:26,440 days in which we try to go slowly and you know, in quotes 351 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:32,760 from the basics of plasma to a little bit of like waves and 352 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,080 turbulence and magnetic confinement. 353 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,280 A little bit more like a physics series of lectures. 354 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:43,280 And then about a week of talks that are much more specific to 355 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,760 the different topics, right? Like different ways that we try 356 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,720 to do a fusion, the different approaches for fusion, 357 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,680 astrophysical plasmas, low temperature plasma. 358 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:57,480 So someone more disconnected and less physics based, definitely 359 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,440 more big picture in each one of these topics if they're basing 360 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,640 anything on physics to try to leverage the the lecture that 361 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,720 we're giving at the beginning of the first week of the course. 362 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,480 In our previous Student Spotlight with Ryan Zerpa, we 363 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,400 learned a bit about fusion energy. 364 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:21,160 But let's hear it from the expert What is fusion energy? 365 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,360 Yes, absolutely. And, and again, this was 366 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,880 literally the reason I got into fusion was because as an 367 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,560 undergrad, I, I, I got excited about it from the work that I 368 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,840 was doing there. Yes, plasma, as I said, is the 369 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,920 4th state of matter. And if you think about the sun, 370 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:45,400 right, and all the stars in the middle of the stars, you have 371 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:50,200 matter in the state of plasma because it's so hot and so much 372 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,720 pressure that all of the electrons have been ripped off 373 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,400 the atom. Most of the matter inside a star 374 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,760 is is hydrogen and some helium, but very small atoms. 375 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:07,600 The sun and the stars are so hot and under so much pressure that 376 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,560 when you think about heat, it's at a microscopic level. 377 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,520 It's really particles moving very quickly in all random 378 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:20,760 directions, right? So every once in a while, the 379 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:25,440 two positively charged nuclei of hydrogen, which is really just a 380 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:30,800 couple of protons, one proton and one proton, they by chance 381 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,720 are going towards each other, right? 382 00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:38,160 Most of the time they're just going to deflect because they're 383 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,040 both positively charged, right? So they don't want to get 384 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:47,080 together, they'll just deflect. But if the conditions are just 385 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:51,560 right, they're pointing towards each other at the right speed, 386 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:58,120 then they will get so close that another force takes over. 387 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,760 So the repulsion is electric repulsion. 388 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,560 When you get really close, you get dominated by the nuclear 389 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:10,120 strong force, right? Which only acts at very small 390 00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:13,760 scales and is always attractive, right? 391 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,640 So if the conditions are right, the nuclear strong force takes 392 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:22,880 over and that releases energy. Once you combine the nuclei of 393 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,600 these two hydrogens, you release energy. 394 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,000 And that release of energy is fusion energy, right? 395 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,680 And the release of energy, you know, there's a whole process in 396 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,240 the stars where it's got a bunch of different interactions, but 397 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,560 ultimately the releases in kinetic energy of the 398 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:43,600 byproducts, right? And by the way, that's the the 399 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,040 reason we have life here on Earth is because of fusion 400 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:52,040 happening in the sun. So the objective of this field 401 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:56,280 since it started has been to reproduce that here on Earth. 402 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,800 We always call it to have a star on Earth or or a bottle, a 403 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,160 magnetic bottle of a star on Earth, right? 404 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,120 That's the idea is can we reproduce that process here on 405 00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:10,400 Earth and harness that energy? That's been the main idea of 406 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,480 fusion. So it turns out that protons, 407 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:17,520 which is the fuel of the sun is not energetic enough. 408 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,240 It doesn't have enough bang for your buck. 409 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:24,840 So we use isotopes of hydrogen, we use deuterium and tritium. 410 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:30,040 And so it just to remind folks, an isotope is, is a nucleus that 411 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,040 has the same number of protons but different number of 412 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,680 neutrons, right? So isotopes of hydrogen, they 413 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,800 all have one proton because it's hydrogen, but they have 414 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,240 different number of neutrons. The typical hydrogen from H2O 415 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,760 has no neutrons. Deuterium, which is one of the 416 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:51,080 big ones that we use, has one neutron and tritium, which is 417 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,560 the other one that we use, has two neutrons. 418 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:58,000 So it's one proton, 2 neutrons. So the main fuel that we're 419 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,600 trying to use here on Earth, and because it's it's the one that 420 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,560 we can get energy at at more reasonable conditions is 421 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,880 deuterium and tritium. I'd love to have a whiteboard 422 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,240 right now, but unfortunately your listeners can't see me. 423 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,200 If you think of a deuterium atom, that's a nucleus, that's 424 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,880 one proton and 1 neutron, and you think of tritium, that's one 425 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,120 proton and two neutrons. When that reaction, when they 426 00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:24,960 combine, if you have the conditions just right and they 427 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:30,320 combine, you have this unstable helium 5 nucleus because it's 428 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,360 the two protons and the three neutrons. 429 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:41,280 But then they rearrange and fly out into a helium 4. 430 00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:45,280 That's two protons and two neutrons and a free neutron. 431 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,240 So if you think about, if you do, if you, if you think about, 432 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,000 you know, take out your play dough and, and, and make or your 433 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,360 marbles and make it. If you think about determine 434 00:26:55,360 --> 00:27:00,040 tritium coming in and a helium 4 and a neutron coming out, it's 435 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,960 the same number of protons and of neutrons. 436 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,520 There's nothing, there's no change there. 437 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:10,240 All we did is rearranged them. But just by rearranging them, it 438 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,680 releases a lot of energy, and the energy comes out as kinetic 439 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,120 energy of our products. That's what we want to harness. 440 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,040 You heat it up enough so that you make the reactions happen, 441 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,640 but then it flies out as helium and as neutrons. 442 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,160 And the objective is harness that energy, that kinetic 443 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,320 energy, and turn that into electricity. 444 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,200 I've described, very roughly, a fusion reactor, right, that's 445 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,320 harnessing that energy and turning it into electricity. 446 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,440 It's always a bit tricky without 3 full whiteboards, 8 colored 447 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,280 markers, and a strong cup of coffee to explain some of the 448 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,360 scientific concepts on the podcast. 449 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:57,160 Many of the images in our head about fusion reactors come from 450 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,480 Hollywood, Star Trek, and the Marvel Universe. 451 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:05,120 So what does the process of creating electricity look like? 452 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,800 Is it the same tea kettle concept from the fission side or 453 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,400 is the build out something completely different? 454 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,280 So yes, this is excellent. So I've described the reaction 455 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,280 itself, but I haven't really told you why it's amazing. 456 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,520 I mean that the real amazing part of fusion is that when you 457 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,880 think of what I just described, deuterium and tritium, this is 458 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,800 hydrogen. These are the smallest atoms in 459 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,040 the world and in the universe. You know the hydrogen atom? 460 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,920 You can get deuterium from the ocean, right? 461 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,760 Deuterium is easy to get. It's a pretty plentiful isotope 462 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,000 of H2. OI don't remember, it's like one 463 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:53,040 out of every 50,000 H 2 OS is actually HDO, so you get it out 464 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:54,760 of there. So it's pretty plentiful. 465 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,760 Tritium is harder. Tritium is short term 466 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,640 radioactive and it doesn't exist naturally on Earth, but we can 467 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,320 get it out of a reaction with lithium, which is pretty 468 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,520 plentiful. And so we have enough lithium 469 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:12,640 and seawater in the world for hundreds of thousands of years 470 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,280 of fusion energy at, you know, the rate that we have. 471 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,720 And if we can get the lithium from the seawater, which is an 472 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,840 active field of research, we can get it for millions of years of 473 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,680 energy. So when you see fusion in, you 474 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,440 know, in Star Trek or in these things, it's because it is an 475 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,040 energy of the future. It is something that that's like 476 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:33,880 a next step in energy production. 477 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,960 So it's very plentiful. It doesn't create any greenhouse 478 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:39,920 gases. The byproduct is helium. 479 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:41,920 It doesn't have any greenhouse gases. 480 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,880 Tritium is radioactive, but it's short term radioactive and you 481 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,280 don't produce that much. So it's qualitatively different 482 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,040 than fission, but you still have to learn how to deal with that 483 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,200 with all those advantage and the fact that it's nuclear, the fact 484 00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,560 that that you can get from very little fuel, a lot of energy, it 485 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,680 just makes for like an idealized source of energy. 486 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:09,720 So that's why you really, really fusion cells itself when you 487 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,880 learn about it. It's such an amazing source of 488 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:17,400 energy, but it's super hard. We need to get fusion reactors 489 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,800 in magnetic confinement fusion, which we haven't really talked 490 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,800 about, but in a fusion reactor, it's about 10 times hotter than 491 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,640 the center of the sun. That's the ideal conditions for 492 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,600 this, and we can get to that. We get to that in a regular 493 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,680 basis. But getting to those conditions, 494 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,600 making them stable enough to harness the energy, and then 495 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,600 developing all of the technology that turns to that kinetic 496 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:45,240 byproducts into electricity, these are still challenges that 497 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,920 need to be solved. It's been decades, but it's 498 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,800 because it's such an intricate set of challenges. 499 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,760 But I think all of us that are in the field are convinced that 500 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,560 once we solve these challenges, it'll really be a revolution for 501 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,080 energy in the world. I mean, if you think of Iron 502 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,720 Man, that little heart, that's supposed to be a fusion in Iron 503 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,200 Man. But I wanted to understand how 504 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,760 do students interact with these concepts and what do they 505 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,600 struggle with visualizing? This is a great question. 506 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,600 So the students that I really interact with long term are the 507 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,920 interns that stay in our lab, right? 508 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,920 And so they do get a cross section of the different topics 509 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,480 that are being seen. And so I would divide this 510 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,480 question into two. One is during the course, when 511 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,360 we're having such a broad range of students from all over the 512 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,840 world participating, what stands out? 513 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,560 I think one thing that stands out is access to this, right 514 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,120 during the week and during the two weeks that we do the course, 515 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,440 we get a lot of folks from all over the world saying, you know, 516 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,920 this is really exciting, we want to get in, How do we get 517 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,480 involved, right? And so one answer for 518 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,280 international students for the US is that it is, it isn't 519 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,240 trivial to be able to come to the US and do the work. 520 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,640 So, so there's a lot of that. There's a lot of of how do you 521 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,080 get access to the forefront of this technology and research? 522 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,000 So I think there are a lot of international groups that are 523 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,320 doing this work and many of which we collaborate with a lot. 524 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,600 That's one way of saying, you know, there's, there's 525 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:17,960 collaborations all over the world. 526 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,480 But another thing that ends up being both for the online folks 527 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:27,680 as as well as the folks that end up working in the, in the lab is 528 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,240 really the intersectionality of topics. 529 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,720 This field has been historically dominated by plasma physicists. 530 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,240 I'm a plasma physicist or nuclear engineers, right? 531 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,200 Those are the two that have really been the 2 fields that 532 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,000 are focused on fusion. When you describe what it takes 533 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:52,800 to build a plant, right, it is physicists, it's chemists, it's 534 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,680 Mechanical Engineers, nuclear engineers, material scientists, 535 00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:01,840 mathematicians, computer scientists, economists, civil 536 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,080 engineers. This is a full industry that 537 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:09,320 we're developing, right? So getting that big picture 538 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:14,040 mindset, I think is a challenge. I think a lot of students come 539 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,400 in with a very narrow view of what they want to do. 540 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,920 And we get them excited about fusion and then say, but by the 541 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,680 way, this is a humongous field, right? 542 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,160 So I think that's both a challenge and an opportunity, 543 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,360 right? Because it gives us a chance to 544 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:33,720 go out and talk to broad ranges of audiences and say, you know, 545 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,440 this thing that could change the world. 546 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,680 We need everybody for this. We need many types of students 547 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,200 and many types of workers for it. 548 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,600 So you can be a part of this. That's sort of the other side of 549 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,400 the coin is we need folks from all over the academic spectrum 550 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,240 to join us. And I got to say, in recent 551 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,760 years, there have been some courses, some folks that are in 552 00:33:55,760 --> 00:34:00,160 the pedagogy space that have spent the whole semester with a 553 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,680 group of students literally developing a concept, a fusion 554 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,680 concept from the basic plasma physics, materials, neutronics, 555 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,440 turning the neutrons into electricity, all of that. 556 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,920 I think it's such a valuable experience to have the students 557 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:18,080 get this holistic view of what it takes to develop a plant. 558 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,280 And so, yeah, I totally agree. It's this, it's this holistic 559 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,800 vision of these challenges. Yeah, especially in the magnetic 560 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:26,199 side. I haven't really gotten into 561 00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:29,760 different approaches, but when you think of what I described of 562 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:34,679 the fusion reactions creating hot or energetic neutrons or 563 00:34:34,679 --> 00:34:38,199 energetic helium, that really is your kettle, right? 564 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:42,000 And so everything else is how do we turn that random kinetic 565 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,440 energy into electricity? That's a huge challenge, right? 566 00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:48,320 It's both sides. It's how do we make a kettle 567 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,639 that works well? And then how do we get that very 568 00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:54,719 specific type of energy that comes out into electricity, 569 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:56,760 right? And so there are things that we 570 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:01,000 can borrow from the established electrical sectors, right? 571 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,400 Specially from fission, How to, you know, how to get the 572 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,320 electricity into the grid, the turbine, all of that, right? 573 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,480 But there's a lot of challenges that are very specific to 574 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,760 fusion, right? We have this flux of energetic 575 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:19,400 neutrons at 14 Mev, you know, a very specific range of, of 576 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:24,120 energies that has never been available, that we've never 577 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,160 made. We've never had any experiment 578 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,400 that makes that amount of energetic neutrons available. 579 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:33,280 So we need to learn a lot about the materials about what's going 580 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,640 to happen to these components before we can actually build a 581 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,520 final product. So yes, so it's long way of 582 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,440 saying it's a lot of challenges. It is an expensive tea kettle, 583 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:49,040 but it's it's a very complex 1. For students looking to knock at 584 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:53,040 the opportunity of fusion breakthroughs, where's the door? 585 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,760 How do you get involved in fusion research? 586 00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:02,120 So thank you, yes, so we at PPL do run these workshops and and 587 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,640 summer schools and all that that we try to make them as 588 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,840 accessible as possible. So really your best friend is 589 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:12,080 Google, Google us and look for summer schools or summer 590 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,960 courses. If you can pause and rewind your 591 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,840 podcast, our main site for this, for the course that we're 592 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,000 describing right now, the two week course at the beginning of 593 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:27,640 the summer is Suli Sul i.pppl.gov. 594 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:32,560 Remember, it's three psandits.gov, so suli.ppl.gov 595 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,120 and then when you go in, you can see the latest course, but then 596 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,960 you can go in and browse many years of courses. 597 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,320 But yeah, take a look at at at some of the resources that we 598 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,560 have. I just finished, for example, 599 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,600 hosting a graduate summer school. 600 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,240 So this is a little bit more advanced, but we are going to be 601 00:36:49,240 --> 00:36:53,520 posting the videos and the slides of many of the talks up. 602 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,280 And this was on microelectronics and quantum information. 603 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,360 Remember, we're talking about the second mission of our lab. 604 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,760 So that was this focus. So one thing that we're, you 605 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,320 know, I've already mentioned it, but that we're super proud of is 606 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,520 the fact that that especially for the intro course, we put 607 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:14,760 almost every lecture, both the slides and the video available 608 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,600 in perpetuity. So if you go back, you can see 609 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,080 the whole thing, look at the slides and be able to 610 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,480 participate. Now it doesn't replace 611 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,720 participating live because when you're alive, we also have 612 00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:29,480 something like the hallway discussion. 613 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,040 We did this during the pandemic and we just kept it. 614 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:36,920 We give everybody a 30 minute break between lectures, but at 615 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,520 the end of the lecture, we close the official one, but we go to a 616 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,440 private Zoom for anybody that just wants to keep engaging with 617 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,040 the lecture. Kind of like a hallway 618 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,560 discussion after the lecture that ended up being one of the 619 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,360 the most popular parts of it because you as a participant 620 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,240 aren't going to be interested in all the talks, but there are 621 00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:58,240 some that you're particularly interested in. 622 00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:01,880 So this is an opportunity for having a, a more intimate 623 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,000 setting with the speaker and, and it's been very popular. 624 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,880 So anyway, that just a pitch to go visit our site, but enroll in 625 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,720 next year's and the speakers are always so keen on doing it. 626 00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:16,360 They they love it as well because it's where you get 627 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:20,080 really the excited ones, right. This is super selfish on our 628 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,960 part. We need workforce like we can't, 629 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,480 we are envisioning the future in which there will be a lot of 630 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,040 fusion plants that require a lot of experts. 631 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:34,960 So this is really like us trying to bring people into our field. 632 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,440 So certainly, certainly that's part of it. 633 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,880 And any further advice for students? 634 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:45,360 I would say I didn't have any of these resources when I was 635 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,000 growing up. There is so much out there. 636 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:52,000 If you want to find it, there's so many resources available 637 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,120 online for whatever field you want to get into. 638 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,320 So definitely look into it and get excited about it. 639 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,760 Feel free to send emails to folks. 640 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,640 Many people will ignore you, but some won't. 641 00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:08,760 And, and it'll be a, a way to, to get in and really, we start 642 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,640 getting into this, into these fields that really need a lot of 643 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,240 people to get excited about. So thank you so much, Danielle, 644 00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:18,840 for reaching out and yes, excited about sharing this with 645 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:20,760 everybody. I'm very easy to find. 646 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,520 If you can find me and send me an e-mail I I might respond. 647 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:29,560 Vision may be the ultimate clean energy dream, but it's also an 648 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,520 enormous human capital challenge. 649 00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:35,600 Doctor Dominguez reminds us that while most people associate 650 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,920 fusion with plasma physicists and nuclear engineers, the 651 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:44,080 future of fusion will rely just as much on data scientists, 652 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,560 material experts, Mechanical Engineers, welders, and even 653 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,600 economists. That broad ecosystem means 654 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,720 there's a role for almost every discipline, but only if students 655 00:39:55,720 --> 00:39:58,280 know these pathways exist in the 1st place. 656 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,320 That's why early exposure matters. 657 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,720 It's about showing students that fusion isn't science fiction, 658 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,200 it's a career they can step into. 659 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,720 So how do you get started if you're hearing about this for 660 00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:13,360 the first time? What if you're a student in high 661 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:17,680 school or college, or even someone mid career looking to 662 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,880 pivot into our future facing field? 663 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:24,840 What resources are out there and how can you plug into the fusion 664 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,000 community no matter where you live? 665 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,720 Let's break down the entry points to get involved. 666 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,360 Whether it's through PPP, LS, Introduction to Fusion Course, 667 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,600 the Department of Energy's Sue the Internship, or summer 668 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:43,040 schools like Fusion Week, the doors are open and they're more 669 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,480 accessible than ever. In fact, Doctor Dominguez 670 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,080 emphasizes that much of the course's success has come from 671 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:54,240 its Open Access approach. All lectures are archived, 672 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,920 speakers stay after to chat, and students can explore the 673 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:02,760 material at their own pace. What's more, it's not just AUS 674 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:06,440 centric program, it's reaching students globally who might not 675 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,600 otherwise get exposure to this field. 676 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:13,040 And that accessibility is critical if fusion is going to 677 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:17,520 become not just a technology, but a truly global industry. 678 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,520 So whether you're a student, a teacher, or someone who just 679 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,240 finds this stuff fascinating, you now have a clear on ramp 680 00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:28,960 into one of the most exciting areas of science and technology, 681 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,560 and all it takes is a little curiosity and click on the 682 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:37,280 correct websites. We're not just teaching fusion 683 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,360 because it's cool, we're teaching it because we need you 684 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,560 to build it. If you've ever dreamed of 685 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:46,560 helping build A star on Earth or you're just fusion curious, 686 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:51,280 definitely check out the course. It's free, it's global, and it 687 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,840 might just change your career. If you enjoyed this episode, 688 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,920 share it with a student, a professor, or someone who thinks 689 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:02,320 nuclear is the bee's knees. Until next time, stay curious.