1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:04,600 Every plan to decarbonize the grid, power data centers, or 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:08,200 secure energy independence quietly depends on one 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:12,000 uncomfortable assumption that we can actually build the 4 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:16,239 infrastructure we're promising. Nuclear power is often described 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,720 as essential for climate, for reliability, national security. 6 00:00:21,240 --> 00:00:26,400 But here's the real question. What if we can't build on time 7 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,440 or on budget? Because when these nuclear 8 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:34,720 projects slip up, costs rise, public trust erodes, projects 9 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,560 get cancelled, and the door opens for dirtier, faster 10 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:40,360 alternatives to take their place. 11 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:45,000 Today, we're stepping away from theory and into the reality of 12 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,280 building these projects to understand what it really takes 13 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:52,000 to build nuclear power plants that actually get delivered. 14 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,720 My guest today is on at Tokpinar, Principal Vice 15 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:58,880 President and General Manager of Nuclear Power at Bechtel. 16 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:03,160 People don't appreciate the benefits of nuclear power. 17 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:09,000 It hits so many objectives. Climate change, no carbon base 18 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,960 load. It's running at a high capacity 19 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,200 without interruption. Very, very reliable social 20 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,440 power. And for any country, it provides 21 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,520 energy security. One of the most experienced 22 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,320 engineering, procurement and construction companies in the 23 00:01:26,320 --> 00:01:30,080 world, with a nuclear track record going back to the very 24 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,800 beginning of the industry. Ahmet leads Bechtel's global 25 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,440 nuclear portfolio, including large reactors, advanced and 26 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:41,040 small modular reactors, and projects like Vogel Units 3 and 27 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,600 4, Poland's first nuclear power plant, and the Natrium 28 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,080 demonstration project in Kemera, Wyoming. 29 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:53,360 What sets us apart from other international state supported 30 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,640 companies? We bring know how when we go to 31 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,000 Poland, we don't go to Poland with thousands of Americans. 32 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:04,760 We're going to have 15 hundreds, maybe 250 will come from US that 33 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:07,400 bring the know. How today we're going to talk 34 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,759 about what it takes to actually build nuclear from the ground 35 00:02:10,759 --> 00:02:13,560 up. So who is Bechtel? 36 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,760 Just a construction company or something more? 37 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:21,880 We are actually an EPC company. So it's, it's more than 38 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:27,120 construction, it's the design, engineering, procurement, 39 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,080 construction and commissioning a plant. 40 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:36,720 We can offer turnkey solutions to projects. 41 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:41,440 We operate in different businesses, including nuclear 42 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,240 power is just one of the businesses that we operate and 43 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:45,720 that's what I'm going to focus on. 44 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:52,320 But just quickly, we are also in the energy business building LNG 45 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,400 export facilities, infrastructure business, 46 00:02:55,400 --> 00:03:00,640 airports, roads, mining and metals and advanced 47 00:03:00,640 --> 00:03:05,480 manufacturing that look at semiconductor fabrication. 48 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,720 In addition, we also have a government business that we do 49 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:14,280 the legacy cleanup of the environmental sites within the 50 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,880 US for Department of Energy and Department of Defense. 51 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:24,320 So in nuclear, this is really a core business for the company 52 00:03:24,920 --> 00:03:28,160 that goes back several generations. 53 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:34,000 We started out in late 1940s with the construction of the 54 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:39,760 first nuclear test reactor and the commercial reactor in the US 55 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:47,640 Bechtel was building about 15 units in each decades at the 56 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:52,720 same time in the US and abroad. And there's also the first we 57 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:58,120 built the first nuclear reactor in India with GE 1962. 58 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,720 Not too many people even in Bechtel would know that. 59 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:04,440 We built the 1st in Taiwan, Korea. 60 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,000 Companies like Bechtel, Westinghouse, Combustion 61 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:14,560 Engineering really stood up the nuclear industry in Korea going 62 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,240 all the way back to 70s, eighties, 90s. 63 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,680 And now as you can see, they're self-sufficient and became a 64 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,440 competitor to us, which is a good thing for us. 65 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,400 That's our model. We go in and we develop and 66 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,920 create an industry, bring our know how for others to learn and 67 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,600 prosper. Then we did the first in Spain. 68 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:40,640 So our footprints globally is pretty broad. 69 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,080 Obviously nuclear fell out of favor. 70 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,160 There were periods where we thought it was coming back. 71 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:51,120 It didn't. We kept ourselves busy in 72 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:55,400 nuclear in two ways. There was always one or two big 73 00:04:55,400 --> 00:05:01,400 project in the US, It was mostly around completing existing 74 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,760 unfinished units, Bransbury, Watts Bar. 75 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:11,600 And we moved that talent that was heavily experienced nuclear 76 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:17,640 power projects to other nuclear projects that the US government 77 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,480 has been undertaking like the West treatment plant in 78 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:26,640 Washington state, the uranium processing facility at the CNSY 79 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,960 12 complex. So we were able to maintain the 80 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,720 pedigree and the number of resources. 81 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:38,440 And most recently, we took over the Vogel construction project 82 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:43,160 as the Force EPC contractor and brought it to a finish. 83 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,640 But if you're wondering what's on that story, how did he get to 84 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:48,840 Bechtel? We'll answer that too. 85 00:05:48,840 --> 00:05:52,920 Did you ask me at the time, would you be running a nuclear 86 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,720 business in the USI would have said, what are you talking 87 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,920 about? It's it's a bit accidental by 88 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,800 entry into nuclear. You know, I studied civil 89 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,120 engineering at Bosphorus University. 90 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:09,600 Then I came to US to the my master's and as I was finishing 91 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,920 my master's, Bechtel was recruiting at the school. 92 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:18,200 I really didn't know anything about Bechtel learning. 93 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,720 I did my research, I did the interview. 94 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,680 Couple of weeks later they gave me an offer and then that was my 95 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:30,000 first nuclear project. I stayed, I worked been with the 96 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:37,480 company 34 years primarily in the power business, about 1/3 in 97 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:42,480 conventional power, oil and gas pride plants, combined cycle 98 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:47,400 plants and then the rest was in nuclear, the last 15 years 99 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:53,080 without a gap in all nuclear. With 34 years of experience in 100 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,960 the industry, I wanted to know what did Ahmed think about the 101 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:58,920 current nuclear boom that's happening? 102 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:05,720 I mean nuclear coming back in early 2000s when the shale gas 103 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:10,960 revolution really brought the price of gas so low at the 104 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,760 nuclear economically make no sense. 105 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:19,440 So you know US started building gas plants. 106 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:26,480 What changed is first, if you dial back 3-4 years, is the 107 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:32,360 climate concerns and the penetration of renewables. 108 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:38,760 The intermittent source of power started to play a role in even 109 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:42,800 in the, you know, the non nuclear and started seeing the 110 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:48,960 value in carbon free base load reliable energy. 111 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:55,360 This was resonating more in Europe than in the US at the 112 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:59,600 time, although in the US there was always bipartisan supports. 113 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:05,200 But the US is a market economy. Market should find a solution 114 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,920 from it. The added factor to that with 115 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:14,960 the geopolitical tensions was the energy security aspects. 116 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,240 You know, countries wanted to have their own supply of 117 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,840 abundant energy. They didn't want to rely on gas. 118 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:28,160 You know, when Russia invaded Ukraine, you know, that made the 119 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:33,360 point stronger. And then more recently, 120 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:41,520 especially in the US, the AI demands for power really brought 121 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:45,480 all the drivers together and made a very strong case for 122 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,760 nuclear. I mean, when you look in the 123 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:51,800 last two years, what we've seen in AI, the growth, the data 124 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:56,680 centers and also heavy focus on battery plants, heavy 125 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:02,920 manufacturing, semiconductor, all of this put a significant 126 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:09,920 pressure on US supply, which had been pretty much static in the 127 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:15,480 last 10-15 years. Now the projections are, you 128 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,080 know, the utilities, the developers, they don't know how 129 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:24,160 to keep up with the demand. And then early last year, 130 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:31,360 President Trump's executive order to have a 10 gigawatts of 131 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:37,560 nuclear power under construction by 20-30 was the last, you know, 132 00:09:37,560 --> 00:09:41,880 piece that we needed. Put significant pressure, make 133 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,880 something happen. There are good programs in the 134 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,760 US. But when I look back, you know, 135 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:53,360 in my 34 years, because I came at the tail end of the nuclear 136 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:58,680 built in the US, so it was coming down, I have never seen a 137 00:09:58,680 --> 00:10:05,480 moment where all the forces that drives nuclear power is so 138 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:09,440 strong, persistent. And now it's up to the industry 139 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,960 to make sure that we can demonstrate we can build these 140 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:20,000 responsibly on time and a new budget because we can't lose 141 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:24,240 this opportunity to to to showcase that nuclear can be 142 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:29,440 built on time and budget. So before we can actually get to 143 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:33,040 building nuclear power plants, what does it take to actually 144 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:37,760 start moving dirt? What testing has to be done 145 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,080 before a site can even be selected? 146 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:46,400 We also help customers with site selection, which is, you know, 147 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:51,280 the very first thing utilities or developers would do, they 148 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:55,640 have to identify sites using your criteria that is well 149 00:10:55,640 --> 00:11:01,440 established by NRC i.e., A proximity to population centers, 150 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:06,960 other maybe hazardous plants, environmental impact. 151 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:11,480 So you do your site selection. We could play a role in that. 152 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,800 We've done it with Terra Power when they were selecting a site 153 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,520 in Wyoming. And then the first thing you 154 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:22,760 want to do is make sure that you understand the geotechnical 155 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:28,960 aspects of the ground for seismic response, soil 156 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:35,080 behaviour, water table, access to water flat decides how you're 157 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,160 going to level it, the access roads. 158 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,280 So all of that is, you know, the first thing you need to do, 159 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:47,360 because you need that data through geological surveys and 160 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:51,360 drilling, you take out samples where you're going to have to 161 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:55,560 reactor building. Most importantly, you analyze 162 00:11:56,040 --> 00:12:03,600 all that data and analysis feeds into your design feeds into your 163 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,640 safety assessment reports for your foundation design is going 164 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,280 to be informed by the condition underneath it. 165 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,640 So that's that's about a year and a half, two year period. 166 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,760 You're also during that time collecting data to make sure 167 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:23,120 where the water table is through wells, you have the met towers 168 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:28,520 so that you have information on the wind so that you can base 169 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:33,360 your design on. That gets you to a point where 170 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:39,440 you're advancing your design and now you're ready, getting ready 171 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:45,400 to mobilize to the site, to the drubbing leveling and and get 172 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,840 ready for excavation that will house the building foundations. 173 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,440 So if there's one big take away here, it's this. 174 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,640 Nuclear power plants don't start with concrete. 175 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,200 They start with understanding the ground, the data and the 176 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,920 risks. Long before construction crews 177 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,360 arrive, teams are already making decisions that will affect 178 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:10,000 safety, cost, and schedule years down the line. 179 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,000 And once you realize how much planning happens before anything 180 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,360 is built, the next question naturally follows. 181 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,520 What actually makes nuclear construction different from 182 00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:24,120 every other big infrastructure project? 183 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,800 Nuclear safety obvious is very, very important. 184 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:31,080 You know the safety of the public that you want to site and 185 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:36,240 build and ensure that where you're building it can withstand 186 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:41,960 seismic events, weather events, so that there's more rigor, more 187 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:47,360 data and analysis with a higher quality required. 188 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:52,360 You know, before you can start construction and putting the 189 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:56,000 foundations in the buildings. You have different quality 190 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,600 standards. There's I show 9000 and others 191 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:05,160 that companies comply with for doing work right. 192 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:11,440 Nuclear brings in an additional layer or quality assurance 193 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,800 requirements to ensure public safety. 194 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:21,280 This is very important, but you do that for the nuclear safety 195 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,600 related aspects of design and construction. 196 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:29,440 When you look at a whole plant, not everything on that plant is 197 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,600 nuclear safety related. You have where you generate the 198 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:36,560 power, the turbines and the turbine generators balance shop 199 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:38,960 plant you're cooling. They're not nuclear safety 200 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,120 related. So they are subject to your 201 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,000 conventional quality requirements. 202 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,120 But when it comes to the nuclear reactor, the the articular 203 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:53,240 systems, the building it's in, it is a different set of 204 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,720 standards. And So what it means for a 205 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:02,760 company like Becton, you need to have a nuclear quality assurance 206 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:10,520 program that is qualified, certified under NRC, that looks 207 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:15,800 at your organization of the company undertaking the project, 208 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:20,960 how decisions are made, how people are trained and certified 209 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,320 for the work they do, documentation and records 210 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:29,160 management, how we control our suppliers, how we buy material, 211 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:33,320 how we subcontract. And it's audited on an ongoing 212 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:39,000 basis to ensure that we are adhering to our own processes 213 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:43,960 and procedures along the way. So when we look to work with 214 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:50,760 other companies, suppliers and the contractors, even if they 215 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:56,800 have their own program, we have to audit and qualify them under 216 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:01,080 ours. So this layer of quality 217 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:09,520 assurance in the supply chain is an added layer and it adds cost 218 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,000 and it's an investment. If you want to be a supplier to 219 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:20,360 provide nuclear safety related electrical cable, the cable may 220 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:27,920 be the same cable, but the documentation of where the raw 221 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:33,640 material supply comes from, how it's installed, how well it's 222 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:38,120 inspected every step of the way needs to be all documented. 223 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:45,840 So the process is far more rigorous to manufacture that 224 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,000 piece of cable compared to a conventional cable. 225 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:53,280 So it's a higher standard of quality checks, audits, the 226 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,360 pedigree. Maintaining the pedigree and the 227 00:16:55,360 --> 00:17:04,119 records requires discipline and culture of compliance to ensure. 228 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:09,440 Because at the end, you know, if you have missed a step that is 229 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:13,599 critical, it could result in endangering public safety. 230 00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:16,920 That's why it's very important. What you're hearing is that 231 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:20,800 nuclear construction isn't just slower or more complex for the 232 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,440 sake of it. It's governed by a completely 233 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,880 different set of safety standards, quality and 234 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,440 accountability. And that raises a really 235 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,840 practical question. If the standards are that high, 236 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,360 who is actually allowed to do the work? 237 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,600 But first, a message from our sponsors. 238 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,680 If we're serious about building the next generation of nuclear 239 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:47,120 power plants, we need more than concrete and containment dones. 240 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:51,440 We need people. Engineers, welders, licensing 241 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:56,400 professionals, project managers, Inc specialists, operators, the 242 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,640 people behind the build. That's where a nuclear talent 243 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,840 scout comes in. We source directly for companies 244 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,120 to find the people who can actually move projects forward, 245 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,440 the ones who understand safety, culture, regulatory rigor, and 246 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,960 how to execute on time and on budget. 247 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,320 If you're ready to step into the next phase of nuclear, or you're 248 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,360 hiring for it, head over to nucleartalentscap.com. 249 00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:25,200 Because the future of nuclear energy isn't just designed, it's 250 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,240 staffed. Now back to the show. 251 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:34,800 Yeah. So in the US there aren't that 252 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:39,440 many nuclear facilities that are being built that you can count 253 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:44,040 with one hand. So the supply chain to some 254 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,880 extent atrophy. You know, the companies that can 255 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:54,440 produce nuclear safety related steel, cable, pipe supports, 256 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:59,000 instrumentation, you name it, all the commodities that you 257 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:04,040 need in a nuclear installation. What we've been doing, you know, 258 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:09,240 we started this effort last year really surveying qualifying 259 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:14,000 suppliers for each of the commodities that we're going to 260 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:18,480 need, not just one 2-3 suppliers for each. 261 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:23,920 If they need help, if they want to get into being a nuclear 262 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:28,000 supplier, that we're helping them along the way. 263 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,600 Here are the things that you need to do, programs you need to 264 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,040 develop, and that's an investment. 265 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:39,560 So they need to start early on if they have a program. 266 00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:46,360 Maintaining the program is also a rigorous effort because it's 267 00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:49,360 not like I got my certification, I'm good. 268 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,560 You need to demonstrate through frequent audits that you're 269 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,920 always in compliance to your quality assurance program. 270 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,520 So it's an effort. It's a high bar, you know, and 271 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:04,560 the suppliers, rightfully, they're willing to invest. 272 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:09,200 It's not a matter of capability. It's a matter of investing to 273 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,960 develop that capability. But they want to see a pipeline 274 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,400 of projects. You know, if you're a supplier 275 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,720 and there's only one project. You may think, well, there's 276 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,320 plenty of work, why am I going to invest so much money just to 277 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:28,680 supply pipe for one project? But that that is changing now. 278 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:34,200 There's so much discussion and potential work in a pipeline 279 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,000 that the landscape is changing. They're going to invest more and 280 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,440 more. So I'm comfortable, while 281 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:46,440 there's a gap today, we're able to identify and work with those 282 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,080 that need the support and encourage them to start getting 283 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,440 back into nuclear work. Who gets to build nuclear power 284 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,640 plants? One of the most eye opening 285 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,120 parts of this process is realizing that nuclear projects 286 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,600 don't just hire workers, they qualify people, companies, and 287 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,800 entire supply chains to meet nuclear standards. 288 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,040 But even with the right people in place, there's another 289 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:15,520 massive constraint shaping these projects, the equipment itself. 290 00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:20,120 Some parts of a nuclear plant take years to manufacture even 291 00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:24,040 before they arrive on site. And with all of the talk of 292 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:29,040 modularization, I wanted to ask Ahmed what is modularization and 293 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,280 how can it help the construction process? 294 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:36,680 So modularization in any industry is a smart way of 295 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,840 moving. You want to move that work off 296 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:44,000 sites and do it in a control environment without worrying 297 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,400 about the weather effects and then ship those modules maybe in 298 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,200 smaller pieces and then you assemble them and put it in 299 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,200 place. So I want to step back and 300 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,960 because, you know, I want to put some perspective on the role of 301 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:02,520 EPC in the overall picture and our engagements. 302 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,640 Depends on what the technology provider does. 303 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:14,920 But in a typical world, the EPC for a nuclear power plant is 60 304 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:19,720 to 70% of the work. A reactor technology brings the 305 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:25,800 core technology and the EPC designs the power plant around 306 00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:30,800 the reactor where you get the heat source. 307 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:38,560 But then everything else A EE PC can design, procure and built. 308 00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:43,480 It varies. Like Westinghouse made the 309 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:48,200 decision, you know, go back a decade to design what we call 310 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,880 the nuclear island, the buildings and the structures 311 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:56,800 around the nuclear equipment and the reactor themselves. 312 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:02,000 So when we work with them, then we design the energy islands 313 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,160 were determined and the turbine generator and the balance show 314 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:10,320 plant, the cooling resides, but it's a large part of a project. 315 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,040 It's usually the most underrated. 316 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,080 But then if you don't get it right, that's where you have two 317 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:21,080 problems and delays and over us. So depending on the design, you 318 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:25,880 have to GW scale, which in the US today's the AP 1000 design 319 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:30,320 offered by Westinghouse. It's heavily modularized. 320 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:35,760 You know, there were a lot of challenges during the Vogel 321 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:37,800 project. People heard about it. 322 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,080 But the good thing, all those risks are retired now. 323 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,200 The supply chain learns, the technology provider learns. 324 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:51,640 So the next ones are going to be drastically different than the 325 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,480 first ones. When you look at the new 326 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:59,640 designs, whether SMRS, advanced reactors, there's a degree of 327 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:04,000 modularization taking place because we're designing the 328 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:09,320 Natrium reactor for Terra power. There's the GESMR, there's 329 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,880 Kairos, the different technologies, but they're not 330 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,840 built yet. They're still in the design 331 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,200 phase. They're all promising to be 332 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:26,040 relatively simpler in design and ease of construction as compared 333 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:30,960 to the GW scale, but they're right now in the stage where 334 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,520 they're trying to get their designs completed. 335 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,240 You know, we mobilize at the site on Atrium, We're doing the 336 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:41,720 manpower structures and test facilities, and then we're going 337 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:46,480 to roll in this spring actually to start the energy island 338 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,840 construction. So the modularization is a good 339 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,600 concept. In some places it doesn't make 340 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,280 sense. But in the US, in a lot of the 341 00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,520 European jurisdictions, modernization has significant 342 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:05,120 advantages, lowering the cost and bringing more certainty 343 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:07,840 during construction on your schedule. 344 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,440 A lot of what determines whether a nuclear project stays on track 345 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,280 actually happens years before construction peaks, through 346 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,760 early procurement decisions and long lead manufacturing. 347 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,000 Nowhere are those lessons more visible than in projects that 348 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,880 had to figure it out the hard way. 349 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,640 That brings us to Vogel Units 3 and 4. 350 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:35,440 The main one, which sounds very simple and easy, but it is very 351 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:42,040 difficult for Orders Utilities developers to stick to, is 352 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:49,000 ensuring the design is complete before you start construction. 353 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:56,680 When we took over in 2017, we were under the impression that 354 00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:02,280 the design was 95% complete. It was 95% complete four years 355 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,880 later. What it does is if you are 356 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,800 designing as you're building or you're building as you're 357 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,640 designing, there are always changes in design. 358 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:18,800 That creates a lot of rework. What you do in the field, you 359 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,960 install a component, the location may change, so you may 360 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:29,200 have to take it out, reinstall. So that was the primary problem. 361 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,400 There were supply chain problems because the supply chain, it was 362 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:38,800 the first time a new unit was built in the US after 20-30 363 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,360 years. There were issues with the 364 00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:44,560 modules, there were issues with some of the equipment. 365 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:51,920 So when I look back and there was no integration of how the 366 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:56,760 work was completed between, you know, the technology provider, 367 00:26:57,120 --> 00:27:03,840 EPC contractors, 0 integration. It was very ad hoc tools, you 368 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,840 know, even when we took over, you know, when you take over a 369 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,120 project in the middle of construction, you can't bring 370 00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:16,200 all your tools. So we had to be very creative. 371 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,360 We did the best that we can, turn it around and finish the 372 00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:22,880 project. Vocal showed the industry just 373 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,360 how unforgiving nuclear construction can be, but it also 374 00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:30,440 created hard won lessons about sequencing, workforce planning 375 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:35,160 and execution that are shaping projects today, not to mention 376 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,040 the importance of finalizing your design. 377 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,200 Now imagine taking those lessons and applying them in a country 378 00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:44,960 that's never built a nuclear power plant before. 379 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,720 That's exactly what's happening in Poland. 380 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:54,240 Now, looking forwards, we are working with Westinghouse in 381 00:27:54,240 --> 00:28:00,400 Poland and we don't even compare to Vogel anymore because now we 382 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:06,280 are totally integrated with the technology provider in a common 383 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,480 data environment. All the data that we need to use 384 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:15,360 to design, to build, to buy resides in a common data 385 00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:23,200 environment where we as Bechtel can interface with our tools, 386 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,200 whether it's engineering, design tools, procurement or 387 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,280 construction tools. Common data environment also is 388 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:37,080 a single source of truth, which is the data in that database is 389 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:42,440 the only data there's no risk of duplicating in a different 390 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,320 place. Everyone uses the same set of 391 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:51,320 data, and it also helps us to create this digital platform as 392 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,880 opposed to carrying binders of paper. 393 00:28:55,680 --> 00:29:00,920 Everything flows seamlessly. The work flows in a digital 394 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:05,880 environment. So our goal when we mobilize in 395 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:12,240 the field on Atrium or in Poland or the next AP1000 in the US 396 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:19,280 will execute these projects with tablets, no binders. 397 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:24,760 And there was so much time on vocal spent on chasing paperwork 398 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,280 because nuclear quality requirements. 399 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,480 There's a lot of handoffs. There's a lot of hold points 400 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,560 with this points inspections. So there are work flows. 401 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,360 You wait for a quality control engineer to come and inspect 402 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:44,080 before you can close it. All that now is going to be 403 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:50,800 through a digital platform. So the QC engineers notified on 404 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:56,000 his tablet iPhone that he has an inspection to do, and it's going 405 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:01,160 to make a paradigm shift. It also gives the workers more 406 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:07,280 time with tools in hand to do the actual work as opposed to 407 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:12,040 chasing closing paper packages. Let me add one thing because I 408 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,680 think it's important. So we use this digital delivery 409 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:20,920 on other backup projects. But in nuclear, there's an added 410 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:27,960 layer of complexity on using data because of the nuclear 411 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:36,040 quality requirements, you need to ensure the integrity of your 412 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,160 data, the integrity of the configuration. 413 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:45,720 So we had to qualify a digital execution platform under our 414 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,120 nuclear quality assurance program. 415 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:54,320 The data exchanges, we spent about a year last year because 416 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,720 we have hundreds of tools that connect to this database, 417 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:02,240 collect data, use it. But before you have to make sure 418 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,960 all these tools are qualified not just under our quality 419 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,760 nuclear quality assurance program because that's what the 420 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:15,480 NRC requires. So we're really ready to deploy 421 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,280 it when we're mobilized at a site, we're doing it in the 422 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,280 office with engineering interface, but construction is 423 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,440 where really make a difference still. 424 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:31,120 You know, I mentioned, you know, we did this in Korea, Taiwan, 425 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,800 Spain. So as a company we have an 426 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:41,880 institutional knowledge experience of building a nuclear 427 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,520 industry. It doesn't happen overnight, it 428 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,920 doesn't happen in a year. It takes time. 429 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,120 So in Poland there are two big projects. 430 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:58,120 We're executing the first one, three GW scale API 1000 units on 431 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,240 the Baltic Sea. That program alone is huge. 432 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,080 And then there's the opportunity to to build it at a second 433 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:10,560 sight. Utilization of local content is 434 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:15,240 obviously in our best interest too, because it's cheaper, 435 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:20,960 faster and more reliable, but also international interest 436 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,360 because they want to get the most out of these projects by 437 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,480 increasing the capability and capacity of the supply chain. 438 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:34,720 So we are working very closely with the Polish supply chain 439 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,120 which is very robust. Yes, they haven't done anything 440 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,400 in nuclear, but they have very good quality suppliers, 441 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,880 construction companies, subcontractors. 442 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:50,680 So and then Westinghouse are partner on this doing the same 443 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:55,120 for the supply that they bring to the project, you know 444 00:32:55,120 --> 00:33:00,520 fabrication of modules, you work closely with the supply chain, 445 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,080 you walk them through this. The first the educational part 446 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:09,280 of OK, what does it take to be a nuclear quality supplier? 447 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,920 What are the steps, how long does it take, What is the 448 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,360 investment? So we're walking them through 449 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:21,320 the different parts and you know, as they see the project in 450 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,360 Poland is real, they start investing. 451 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:30,680 If you look at the local contents, what we buy within the 452 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:37,640 country will increase over time from unit to unit and from site 453 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,560 to site. Our goal is that when we 454 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:47,000 mobilize for the second site, the participation from the polar 455 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,920 supply chain is fully maximized. They're not going to do 456 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,960 everything because it doesn't make sense for example, that you 457 00:33:54,960 --> 00:34:03,000 have forging of a reactor capability in the country, you 458 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,720 will see a much bigger participation. 459 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:12,480 The added benefit to them as as we or others build more nuclear 460 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:18,440 plants in Bulgaria, in Sweden, in, you know, the neighboring 461 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,199 Central and Eastern European countries or even in the UK, 462 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:28,760 that will provide an opportunity for Poland to export their 463 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:33,920 supply chain, export their subcontract services to other 464 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,760 countries because they would have benefited going through 465 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,560 this with us. This is really what sets us 466 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:48,040 apart from other international, you know, state supported 467 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,120 companies. We bring know how when we go to 468 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,239 Poland, we don't go to Poland with thousands of Americans. 469 00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,760 If we're going to have 1500 people that we hire in Poland, 470 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,400 maybe 250 will come from US that bring the know how. 471 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:11,000 So we are not only developing the supply chain, we are 472 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:17,200 investing, training, developing local talents in the ways we do, 473 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:23,160 in the ways we built, in the ways we design and buy nuclear 474 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:27,960 power plants. So I think it's very important, 475 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:32,400 you know, when I look and you know other companies, you know 476 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:39,320 from China, Russia or Korea, they're more driven by exports 477 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,600 from their country of origin to the host country. 478 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,120 They're more export driven. You know when they go and build 479 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:51,800 a nuclear plants, the primary goal is to boost exports from 480 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:57,760 their country, whereas we look at how can we help just by 481 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,640 bringing down know how develop an industry. 482 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:06,720 So in the long term, this is how Korea benefited, how Taiwan 483 00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:10,280 benefited, how Spain, because they were able to develop their 484 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,000 industries. Poland isn't just building a 485 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,120 nuclear power plant, it's building the foundations of an 486 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:20,040 entire nuclear industry, from workforce training to supplier 487 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,280 qualification to public trust. When they're fabricating 488 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,400 something, what we do is send our people to their shop to 489 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,480 ensure they are complying with the process, with the 490 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,080 inspections and the witness points. 491 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,920 So we are there helping them with that aspect. 492 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:42,680 And the fact that it coming within the country eliminates 493 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,120 the risk of logistics to an extent. 494 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,560 You're not shipping it from Korea or China. 495 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,240 There's more certainty around the schedule that it's going to 496 00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:56,280 be there in time. You always want to work with 497 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,680 local workforce. In any event, they're very 498 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,120 productive, especially in Poland. 499 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,680 I think we're lucky because very, very productive workforce 500 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,120 there. The challenge for us is be in 501 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:16,280 the number of skilled craft force these plants. 502 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:21,640 You know, when you talk about 3 gigawatts scale units require 503 00:37:21,720 --> 00:37:26,560 let's say 10,000 skilled workforce, that's just people 504 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,520 doing the work. Nuclear projects are not the 505 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,600 only projects. They're always projects, right? 506 00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:38,080 Highways, commercial buildings, refineries, export facilities. 507 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:43,720 And getting to that level, having the right skill sets, 508 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:48,680 trained, qualified at the numbers that we need is our 509 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,440 biggest challenge in any country. 510 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,880 In the US, Poland, that's what we worry about. 511 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:58,320 If you mitigate the design risk, which I think we have with 512 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:04,520 AP1000 reactors, the bigger risk for us now is going to be how do 513 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,760 we get this level of craft to do the work. 514 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,400 You have to incentivize, you have to have the proper 515 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:16,320 training, and then they have to have a reason to work on your 516 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:20,360 project versus working in Germany on a windmill. 517 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:22,880 But that's the planning that we're starting. 518 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:27,000 We do these things way ahead of time because you can't just, you 519 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,280 know, a month before you start construction, like say, let's 520 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:34,080 get a couple of 100 people. Where are they coming from? 521 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:40,120 So we do these labor surveys that analyze, you know, we start 522 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:44,040 with where the plant is being built and you keep enlarging the 523 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,880 circle 5000 meter diameter. You start looking at the 524 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:52,400 neighboring countries and at the ends, if you feel like you're 525 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:58,240 not going to be able to fulfill 100% and you need 20% contingent 526 00:38:58,240 --> 00:39:02,360 labor from other countries, then you start working with the 527 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:06,280 government for the permits, you know, and then when you look at 528 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:12,880 sources of Labor from third countries, so in the US, this is 529 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:17,120 a big challenge because when you look at the US construction 530 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:22,040 workforce and look at all the projects, there's a significant 531 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,680 shortage today, hundreds of thousands shortage. 532 00:39:25,720 --> 00:39:30,280 Every industry is struggling to find qualified people. 533 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:35,640 US really hasn't built major infrastructure for a very long 534 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:41,400 time. Second is somehow construction 535 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:47,440 work was looked down like go to college. 536 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:49,800 Why do you want to be a construction worker? 537 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:54,720 If I tell you how much a welder electrician makes, it's a much 538 00:39:54,720 --> 00:39:58,280 better paying job than most professions. 539 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,960 So we are working with, you know, the states with the 540 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:07,400 federal governments. How do we attract more people 541 00:40:07,720 --> 00:40:12,800 into the construction workforce so that, you know, trade 542 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:17,440 schools, vocational schools? Community colleges were 543 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:22,280 developing programs to recruit, train, you know, and then 544 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:27,000 advertise that these are well paying jobs. 545 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:32,520 It resonates with the new administration and they're doing 546 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,160 the same. But you know, this is going to 547 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,960 take time because I encourage them to go to vocational school, 548 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:44,040 you know, when they finish high school, learn trade skills and 549 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:48,240 then bring it to the projects. There's going to be plenty. 550 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:54,640 I mean, with all the investment targeted in the US, if you look 551 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:59,880 the next 20 years, it's crazy. It's very exciting for everyone 552 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,880 but the workforce. You know, we're doing our part. 553 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:07,880 And, you know, others are hopefully doing the same, not 554 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,720 just to train and develop, but to encourage so that the pool is 555 00:41:11,720 --> 00:41:14,000 bigger for which you're recruiting. 556 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,680 What's striking here is that even as reactor technologies 557 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,840 evolve, the fundamentals of nuclear construction don't 558 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,560 change. Safety, culture, quality 559 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:27,000 assurance, and discipline execution still matters most. 560 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,520 Which brings us to the question everyone asks, and very few 561 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,440 people are explaining clearly. What does it actually take to 562 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,680 build nuclear safely, on time and on budget? 563 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:44,920 So I'm going to draw a parallel to the LNG industry. 564 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:49,640 You know LNG, these are the liquefied gas export facilities. 565 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:56,920 Right now we're building, we're at 5 different sites and the 566 00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:01,440 total value of these facilities are over 100 billion. 567 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:08,320 We have 18,000 US craft in the Gulf, metal employees 18,000, 568 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,680 very successful. These are big jobs, complex. 569 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:21,120 We learned to do these jobs very effectively and they're all 570 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,440 under budgets finish ahead of schedule. 571 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:31,200 We turned the LNG industry down back 20-30 years and brought it 572 00:42:31,240 --> 00:42:37,280 to a level today where we're able to take a turnkey risk 573 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,800 delivered to our customers, a facility that is operating ahead 574 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:47,440 of time. Time to market in LNG is very, 575 00:42:47,720 --> 00:42:51,320 very critical. It's a huge success story and 576 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:57,320 we'll look at from the first LNG train to the 9th, we brought 577 00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:01,200 down the cost and schedule over 30%. 578 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:06,200 So there is precedent. We can do it. 579 00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:08,400 We know we can. OK. 580 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:13,920 Nuclear brings added complexity because of the quality nuclear 581 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:18,840 safety related requirements, but they're manageable if you plan 582 00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,760 it right. The key in nuclear is the 583 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:30,040 discipline that you will finish design before you jump in, so 584 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:34,640 you don't have to do any rework. You stay close to your supply 585 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:38,160 chain, making sure the equipment and material you're receiving 586 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,480 are meeting the quality standards. 587 00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:48,320 You get ahead of the craft make do your surveys, plan rigorously 588 00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:51,560 to ensure you'll have the right number. 589 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:58,040 Not only recruited, but also trained and qualified to do the 590 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:03,200 work where if you do all these things with the proper 591 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,800 integration, the digital delivery platform that I talked 592 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:11,960 about working closely with your technology provider, it's not 593 00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,440 rocket science. We can do it. 594 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,240 We're very, very confident we can do it. 595 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:22,760 But then the first one we do is still not going to be the ideal. 596 00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,840 It's the end of a kind. So what is the end of a kind? 597 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,240 It is it the four, six tense unit? 598 00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:31,160 It will change. It will depend on the 599 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,680 technology. When you have a pipeline of 600 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,960 these projects, you know as you're finishing the first 601 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:43,600 units, you start moving the people to the second unit. 602 00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:48,880 At each unit you're developing more talent and then transfer of 603 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:53,760 knowledge is best done through the people. 604 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:58,480 Each project you want to develop talent so that you can deploy to 605 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,720 more projects. That's how we're planning it. 606 00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:06,920 We're in discussions with the US governments this right now a big 607 00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,240 effort to build. You may hear buzzwords like 10 608 00:45:10,240 --> 00:45:15,240 pack SMRS, 10 pack GW scales. Hopefully something will break 609 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,200 mid year or later this year. We're excited. 610 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:23,400 We want to grow the industry for everyone. 611 00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:28,760 And then once the industry grows and we can demonstrate through 612 00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:32,960 replication that you can bring the cost down, finish ahead of 613 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,320 time, then there's going to be more and more builds. 614 00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:42,680 But one other aspect very, very important, keeping the designs 615 00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:48,240 standard and fight the temptation trying to improve the 616 00:45:48,240 --> 00:45:52,720 design. If it works, keep it, don't 617 00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:57,680 touch it because any changes you make brings complexity and risk 618 00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:03,920 of construction issues. And the good thing is, the US 619 00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,240 nuclear technology companies learned this lesson from the 620 00:46:07,240 --> 00:46:12,000 past, and they're disciplined. With over 3 decades of 621 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,920 experience in the industry, I wanted to know if Ahmed believes 622 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:19,040 the nuclear industry can meet this moment. 623 00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:23,280 Are we really able to convince the public that nuclear is the 624 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,760 way forward? Yes, I do. 625 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:30,360 Actually, you know, people don't appreciate the benefits of 626 00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:36,120 nuclear power, but when you think about it, it hits so many 627 00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:41,680 objectives. Climate change, no carbon base 628 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:45,120 loads. It's running at a high capacity 629 00:46:45,240 --> 00:46:50,080 without interruption, Very, very reliable social power. 630 00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:55,560 And for any country, it provides energy security. 631 00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:00,240 And in this geopolitical environment, you cannot take 632 00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:03,880 that for granted. It is an exciting fields 633 00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:09,280 newcomers will benefits participating in reviving this 634 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:14,360 industry and then you look back and say I played a role in 635 00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:19,000 reviving this industry that will serve all of us well. 636 00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:24,000 Bechtel is making moves around the world, but where exactly are 637 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,160 these nuclear projects taking place? 638 00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:32,880 You know, we have Poland, we have Natrium in Wyoming, we are 639 00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,720 working with the TVA on the Clinch River. 640 00:47:35,720 --> 00:47:40,480 This is the GESMR. They're very limited projects in 641 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,480 the industry today that is making headline. 642 00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,920 But I think you're going to see far more. 643 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:51,880 You know, the wave is coming and we are investing a lot of 644 00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:58,920 talents and time so that we are 100% ready when the day comes. 645 00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:03,080 Just watch out. The next 6 to 18 months is 646 00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,040 things are going to break loose. It's coming. 647 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:10,600 Thank you so much to my guest, Ahmed Tokbinar of Bechdel and 648 00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,720 the Bechdel Communication Team for making this episode happen. 649 00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,840 If this episode has showed anything, it's that nuclear 650 00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:20,000 isn't impossible to build. It's just demanding. 651 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,760 It requires patience, preparation, and people who are 652 00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,360 willing to do things the hard way to get them done the right 653 00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:29,280 way. When we talk about nuclear 654 00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:33,240 power, it's easy to get lost in reactor designs, policy debates, 655 00:48:33,240 --> 00:48:37,080 or long term climate targets. But this conversation brings it 656 00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:41,040 back to something much simpler. Because the future of nuclear 657 00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,240 doesn't hinge on whether the technology works. 658 00:48:43,720 --> 00:48:47,640 It hinges on whether we can build it predictably, safely, on 659 00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,280 time, and on budget. If you're looking to follow 660 00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,640 Bechtel's builds around the world, we'll put those links in 661 00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:57,000 the show notes. If this episode changed how you 662 00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,880 think about what it takes to build nuclear, share it with 663 00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:02,240 someone who still thinks can't be done. 664 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,320 I'm Danielle Allen, and this is naked nuclear. 665 00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:07,920 Until next time, stay curious.