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Hello and welcome to the latest 
episode of Real Deals as private

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Equity talks podcast. 
I'm Talia, Emissary editor of 

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Real Deals and I'll be 
co-hosting today with our 

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features editor sound virtual. 
During today's chat, will be 

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looking to dissect a new theme 
in the industry. 

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That is known as the just 
transition and how it is being 

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used in practice to do this, we 
have Michelle giddens, co-ceo at

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Bridges Vonda management and 
Sharon Johnson cro of agility 

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Eco, a Bridges portfolio 
company. 

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Hi everyone. 
Thanks for joining us today. 

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Nice to be here. 
Great, thank you. 

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And so I'm excited to get stuck 
into and then the concept of the

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just transition first, and to 
set the scene for our, or our 

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listeners, and Michelle, for 
those of our listeners, who were

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at the Real Deals and drawdown 
ESG conference Couple of months 

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ago would have had yourself and 
Sam discuss the dress transition

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and but maybe to set the scene 
once again and from your 

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perspective kind of as an 
investor. 

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How would you describe the 
concept of a just transition? 

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Thank you, Dalia. 
Yes, look, I think this is the 

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next wave of thinking in terms 
of sustainable investing and 

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fortunately, many more investors
are these days thinking About 

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climate impacts in their 
Investments, and making NetZero 

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commitments. 
And that's incredibly important.

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And the latest ipcc report as 
you might have seen suggests 

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that the investment in the shift
to a low-carbon world is about 

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six times lower than it needs to
be. 

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So thinking about the climate in
Investments is incredibly 

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important and really a just 
transition takes this. 

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The next level, it's about 
ensuring that the benefits and 

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the costs of transitioning to a 
green economy are distributed 

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widely and are distributed 
fairly. 

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So it means that when we think 
about environmental 

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sustainability in choosing 
Investments and how we run our 

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investments. 
We also think about what that 

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means for social inclusion, 
decent work poverty, eradication

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means and I think this Is so 
essential because if we don't as

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an industry and as a as 
countries, bring people with us 

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in this transition, then we may 
not only his hat sort of not 

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fair in the first place but also
without it we can't hope to 

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build the political consensus we
need to achieve Net Zero for 

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Bridges. 
We use we tend to think about 

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this as investing in a more In 
apple and a more inclusive 

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economy. 
So reducing our impact on the 

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planet while also helping more 
people, fulfill their potential 

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and building stronger 
communities. 

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Professor, Nick Robbins, I just 
finalized that answer by saying 

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Professor Nick Robbins at lscc, 
who really is, one of the people

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who came up with this concept 
for just transition said, if Net

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Zero is the what then the just 
transition is the how I guess 

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the next question. 
Michelle really would be. 

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Obviously you talked about kind 
of what the idea. 

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Of the just transition is kind 
of philosophically. 

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But what does that look like in 
practice? 

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So what sort of tools and 
measurements and Frameworks can 

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gp's use? 
What advice would you have for 

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them to use where they can sort 
of measure their just transition

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objectives? 
So, I think a very, very good 

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place to look. 
First is a recent report from 

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the G7 impact investing task 
force, that looked that 

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describes three key elements 
that any investor should be 

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thinking about if they care 
about just transition investing.

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So first number one, of course 
is climate and environmental 

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action. 
Number two, socio-economic 

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distribution. 
And Cootie. 

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And then number three, Community
voice, which really means 

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thinking as you make an 
investment, about how you're 

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going to listen to the voice of 
the individuals that are 

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affected by that investment. 
And those three elements, they 

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say can be either integrated 
into individual investment 

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choices or there's also an 
option to think about creating 

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products which are focused on 
the just transition and that are

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deliberately seeking out 
Investments. 

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Using those three tools. 
Another way that we like to 

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think about it, we've always 
used the UN sustainable, 

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development goals in are 
investing. 

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And, of course, they also 
represent quite a strong sense 

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of the just transition, 
particularly the goals 8, decent

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work for all seven clean energy 
for all 12 responsible 

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consumption and production and 
then 13 climate action and And 

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go number one poverty 
eradication, so at Bridges and 

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when we look at an investment, 
we develop a core impact thesis 

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and that thesis must either, 
have a strong environmental 

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Dimension, or a strong 
inclusivity that mention. 

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And of course our Bullseye, if 
you like, in terms of impact 

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pieces, would combine both 
positive impact on on? 

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On planet and inclusivity and 
actually the example, we're 

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going to talk about agility Eco 
is a really good example, where 

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it does both relate to 
inclusivity as well as 222 

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Planet related things. 
Okay. 

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And I feel like that is a 
perfect segue then perhaps to, 

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to introduce Sharon. 
So we've obviously heard from 

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the investor site how financial 
institutions can integrate the 

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social Dimensions. 
The way they allocate capital 

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for Net Zero and what that 
process looks like. 

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But now let's hear from the 
portfolio level. 

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So Sharon, it would be great to 
get your perspective on what 

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it's been like to be on this 
just transition Journey. 

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So first, if you could tell us a
bit about agility, Eco what it 

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aims to do. 
And yeah and how your 

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partnership with Bridges began. 
Yeah, that's great. 

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Also, I'm a fairly recent 
starter a jersey, but actually 

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the company was launched in 2013
and the thing I love about it is

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it has a really unique 
proposition around fuel poverty.

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So we combine supporting 
vulnerable customers and 

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providing all kinds of support, 
our own Financial advice, and 

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support and also Energy, 
Efficiency, retrofit measures to

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improve the quality of their 
home. 

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Both from a kind of heat and 
comfort perspective, but also 

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obviously from the cost 
perspective, - so what we're 

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about is we want to play a major
role in eliminating fuel 

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poverty. 
We want to do a great job for 

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those customers that we help and
we want to contribute to Net 

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Zero. 
So what how that shows up in 

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practices, we really, really 
understand how to help 

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vulnerable customers. 
We have a large number of people

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that are either working in 
vulnerable customers homes, 

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giving them help and support or 
on the phone to them providing 

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advice. 
We have Great relationship with 

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a number of organizations that 
help identify customers that are

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in need. 
So that's Charities. 

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Local authorities and energy 
suppliers, and we have access to

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a large network of installers, 
who can go into customers homes 

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and fit, insulation and heating 
to make their homes better, and 

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we have a great reputation 
actually for delivering Energy 

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Efficiency programs in a really 
efficient way. 

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So that's that's agility. 
Eco it in terms of the 

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relationship with Bridges back 
in 2019, you know, it's when 

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jealousy was already strongly in
that that mission and that 

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mindset, but it had grown quite 
rapidly and very successfully 

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from a start-up and needed, help
and support from an investor to 

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continue to expand its services 
to become a little bit more 

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professional little bit more 
industrial strength. 

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And that the founders were 
looking for an investor with 

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similar values and sort of a 
social impact. 

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Vsauce. 
So that funding from Bridges, 

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was announced on the 20th of 
November and you board and chair

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put in place. 
And since then really the 

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company has gone from strength 
to strength, despite happening, 

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you know, just as covid out to 
hit, there's been expansion on 

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all fronts and we've built a 
couple of new business lines 

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into the company. 
So it's been a very successful 

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partnership. 
Yeah. 

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It sounds like a really 
incredible business and you 

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mentioned you were sort of prior
to your investment with Bridges.

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You You were already perhaps in 
this, just transition mindset. 

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But were you aware of that 
concept before your partnership 

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with Bridges and where the 
elements of the just transition 

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cup already within your 
business? 

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I guess, prior to this 
partnership and investment. 

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Yeah, I think less expressly 
aware more. 

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It was just what the company was
about and they're to do, so, the

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fit was already there. 
So I Manifesto is about securing

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more money for Energy, 
Efficiency, upgrades for the 

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fuel poor, and making sure that 
it's Absolutely. 

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The best way it can be about 
partnering with local 

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organizations to, you know, have
a win-win relationship. 

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And to make sure that all of us,
vulnerable customers can get 

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help. 
So, you know, in there, you can 

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hear a lot of alignment with 
what we were just talking about.

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So in terms of how that how we 
work, that shows up with us 

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being incredibly, highly 
networks, with partnering with 

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local authorities with 
installers with energy, 

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suppliers and with charities, 
He's and delivering advice to 

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local third sector agencies. 
So, for example, we supported 

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757 jobs last year, and local 
companies and social 

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Enterprises. 
So I think that gives us Stand 

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Out, expertise with the 
vulnerable and the fuel core. 

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We touched 45,000 customers 
lives in our community since 

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business unit last year's, and 
that is life-changing for some 

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of those customers. 
So there's a good alignment that

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I think. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

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And Michelle just coming back 
over to you briefly. 

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So from your perspective as an 
investor coming in what sort of 

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opportunities for growth? 
Did you identify so prior to and

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then during your investment in 
energy agility Cohen and kind of

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perhaps using that transition 
learns well and our really 

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strong conviction. 
Is that companies that are 

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responding to these macro 
challenges like the me need for 

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greater sustainability like the 
need for greater equity and a 

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greater inclusion. 
Are likely to be the companies 

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that are going to grow among the
fastest in the economy. 

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I think you can really hear that
from Sharon. 

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So we were very attracted to 
agility Eco because we felt that

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its growth potential was going 
to be enormous as well as having

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a very positive impact on people
and planet. 

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And You think today about the 
challenges that are being faced 

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in terms of fuel poverty? 
There are, of course only there 

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in the news all the time. 
Now particularly with Ukraine 

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situation. 
So this is a challenge that it's

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becoming and has become even 
more at the Forefront of 

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people's minds. 
So we saw a company that was 

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doing its work extraordinarily 
well and had huge growth 

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opportunities. 
But like all the companies that 

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we work with there were 
challenges that they wanted to 

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work through and we thought we 
could could bring support to 

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them so it's scaling existing 
Services diversifying services 

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that we've been looking at 
incorporating remote telephone 

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service, provision better 
tailored services such as help 

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Hub. 
It's about in we've worked with 

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them to improve organizational 
capacity so we had with them and

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you chair and UCS. 
Oh and you clo being Sharon and 

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then of course as with every 
investment that Bridges makes 

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Always looking to try to bring 
support to them in terms of the 

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way that they measure and 
communicate their impact on 

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society which in turn delivers 
them additional competitive 

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Advantage because their 
customers and their other 

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stakeholders are more clearly 
aware of the positive impact 

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that they're having. 
Sure, absolutely. 

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And I want to talk a bit about 
some of that measuring Concepts 

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so she's sharing obviously, 
we've spoken a bit about sort of

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the the focus that agility. 
He has on Energy Efficiency and 

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I think quite a lot of the time 
companies, do tend to focus on 

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that kind of measuring the CO2 
and such. 

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And that's perhaps a bit kind of
something. 

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That's a bit easier for people 
to focus on. 

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But I want to turn now and look 
at that. 

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How you measure the social 
impact? 

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Yeah. 
How do you do that? 

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And what kind of challenges are 
around that? 

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So, yeah, I think this is an 
area where Bridges have 

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particularly helped us lift 
this, this are impact out. 

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So if, for example, we made 200 
million pounds of interventions 

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in 2021, and that's about 7,000 
pounds per household in lifetime

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savings on their energy bill. 
Which if you put that in context

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of today's world with the energy
prices going up the way they 

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are, that is hugely impactful 
and also on Health and Care. 

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Comes we delivered 9.5 million 
pounds of Health and Care 

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outcomes last year. 
And so I think we're Bridges 

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have really helped us is to 
bring us that that focus and 

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ability to measure impacts in 
that way which we probably 

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wouldn't have done previously. 
And I think you know, it for me 

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as a CEO of how that shows up it
in real life is the customer 

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experience. 
So I wanted to just talk about 

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mr. 
Bumstead who you helped him as 

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referred through our Portsmouth 
City. 

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All to our leap advice scheme, 
mr. 

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Baum says an elderly man, he 
lived alone in a park home. 

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He had ill health, he wasn't 
receiving any benefits at that 

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time and he was struggling with 
the cost of heating his home and

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we were able to provide him with
the best connection worth two 

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00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,300
and a half thousand pounds. 
Some heating were 3,800 pounds 

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00:14:58,300 --> 00:15:02,400
and insulation and work to his 
home, to improve it worth 11,000

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00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:06,600
pounds, and that showed up, as 
40,000 pounds in lifetime Bill 

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00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:10,800
Savings, Mr. Bond, Stead and 
still a load of numbers, isn't 

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00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,000
it? 
But actually when you receive 

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the emails that we receive from 
customers and their relatives 

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saying, you know, you have 
changed my life. 

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I now feel better, my health is 
better. 

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I'm not feeling anxious that's 
where this stuff really shows. 

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The impact, it's having. 
All right, so Sharon for you, 

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00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,700
since the investment, could you 
talk to us a bit about how 

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you've been working with Bridges
and particularly what changes 

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have been made that are really 
driving. 

255
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,600
Diving the just transition since
your partnership. 

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00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:43,600
Yeah, I think I call out two 
things, really? 

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But first is that we get great 
advice and support a challenge 

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00:15:47,500 --> 00:15:50,900
from Bridges and our board. 
And that's incredibly helpful 

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00:15:51,100 --> 00:15:55,300
and secondly, the focus of the 
structure around impact and 

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00:15:55,300 --> 00:15:58,600
Reporting has just bought it, 
you know, in to clear a relief 

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00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,100
for us. 
So, on the first of those, I 

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think, you know, the challenge 
and support front, it helps is 

263
00:16:05,700 --> 00:16:08,000
generally more effective. 
So there's been a lot of Around 

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have technology and how we use 
data approach to Quality making 

265
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,600
us more efficient as an 
organization, since the 

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00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:20,700
investment and on organizational
maturity, how we develop our 

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00:16:20,700 --> 00:16:24,800
people and give them a great 
career paths through how we 

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00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,600
become more diverse and more 
inclusive. 

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00:16:28,300 --> 00:16:31,100
We've introduced an employee 
ownership scheme through 

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00:16:31,100 --> 00:16:34,800
Bridges, very good advice and 
and we're getting great support 

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00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,500
on our application to become the
corpse. 

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00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:42,000
If I'd and the we also get 
brilliant strategic advice. 

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00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:47,100
So the outer investment around 
heat pumps is been fully 

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00:16:47,100 --> 00:16:50,700
supported by Bridges. 
And as we've discussed in 

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00:16:50,700 --> 00:16:52,000
progressed, it through our 
board. 

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00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,600
So general advice and support is
fantastic. 

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00:16:55,600 --> 00:17:01,200
But secondly, the focus on the 
structure of how we report on 

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00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,500
impact is important and aligning
our goals to the sustainable 

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00:17:04,500 --> 00:17:07,099
development goals. 
In particular, the ones that 

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00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:11,099
Just transition. 
So for example, on gold can 

281
00:17:11,099 --> 00:17:15,500
Prime action, lots of the work 
we do is fully aligned to that 

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00:17:15,500 --> 00:17:19,400
making homes more efficient. 
So we delivered five hundred 

283
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,700
forty five thousand tons of 
Lifetime. 

284
00:17:21,700 --> 00:17:28,000
CO2 abatement in tier 2221. 
It's gone bold 10. 

285
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,700
Reducing inequalities. 
We support customers with advice

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00:17:31,700 --> 00:17:35,500
and other measures so Community.
Schemes, business unit, for 

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00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:39,400
example, provides Many more 
customers with advice and 

288
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:43,900
support than the ones that end 
up getting the retrofit changes 

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00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:47,100
to their homes. 
So, that delivers about an 

290
00:17:47,100 --> 00:17:49,800
average reduction in the fuel 
poverty Gap, where tube last 

291
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,900
year was two hundred and fifty 
one percent, and I'll go late 

292
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,500
decent work and economic growth.
I've talked a lot about how we 

293
00:17:59,300 --> 00:18:03,200
network with installers and 
other businesses and how we can 

294
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:09,500
help them be successful as well 
as ourselves and On 7 affordable

295
00:18:09,500 --> 00:18:11,800
and clean energy. 
Lots of the scheme's. 

296
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:16,500
We're driving delivering solar 
panels, three examples and heat 

297
00:18:16,500 --> 00:18:18,400
pumps, which are going to become
enormous round. 

298
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,100
We're investing enormously. 
And so, I think that structure, 

299
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,700
it makes us feel great as an 
organization and it shows that 

300
00:18:26,700 --> 00:18:29,600
we're the things we're doing, 
are you know, positive 

301
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:33,500
obviously, having such a session
in such an integral part of 

302
00:18:33,500 --> 00:18:37,400
agility ecos. 
Strategies is to stay tuned. 

303
00:18:37,500 --> 00:18:40,300
In and connected to the needs of
those communities that you're 

304
00:18:40,300 --> 00:18:43,500
aiming to help. 
And it seems obviously, as you 

305
00:18:43,500 --> 00:18:46,300
mentioned, it seems so 
incredibly topical right now 

306
00:18:46,900 --> 00:18:49,000
with the energy crisis and 
everything and then and the 

307
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,300
currents of living crisis that 
were also struggling with. 

308
00:18:53,500 --> 00:18:56,400
So my question is, I guess how 
do you ensure that your 

309
00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,900
remaining, well, informed about 
the communities that you are 

310
00:18:59,900 --> 00:19:02,700
serving and how is it, how does 
that sort of fit in with your, 

311
00:19:02,700 --> 00:19:06,400
with your business strategy? 
Yeah, I think a business 

312
00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:09,600
strategy. 
Is to work very closely and to 

313
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,700
be fully integrated with a large
network of different 

314
00:19:12,700 --> 00:19:14,700
organizations and with 
consumers. 

315
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,900
So as I described we're doing 
work for a number of councils 

316
00:19:18,900 --> 00:19:22,800
and funders and obviously they 
have their own specific issues 

317
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:24,700
and we need to talk to them and 
understand that. 

318
00:19:24,700 --> 00:19:28,200
So working with a local Council 
in the Southeast might not be 

319
00:19:28,300 --> 00:19:32,500
the same issues result because 
one in North, we work closely 

320
00:19:32,500 --> 00:19:35,500
with a network of installers and
it has to be a value exchange 

321
00:19:35,500 --> 00:19:38,800
between us and Them. 
And a win-win relationship. 

322
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,500
So we're very hard to understand
what's important about those 

323
00:19:41,500 --> 00:19:45,800
businesses and how they can keep
their businesses running work 

324
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,400
with Charities and other 
referrers. 

325
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,400
So they obviously are very, very
close to what's going on on the 

326
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,100
ground for consumers. 
We work with consumers 

327
00:19:54,100 --> 00:19:56,900
themselves, obviously, talking 
to them, through our call 

328
00:19:56,900 --> 00:19:59,200
Centre, which we showed us 
talked about, we've been able to

329
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,200
expand and through our home 
energy advisor Network and we 

330
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,700
talked to energy suppliers who 
obviously have the best possible

331
00:20:05,700 --> 00:20:07,400
View at the moment about how 
consumers. 

332
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,400
There's a feeling and some of 
the challenges they're facing, 

333
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:15,800
so I think that if we didn't do 
that, we would be not having the

334
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:20,700
edge that we do have which we 
are able to tailor what we do to

335
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,300
the specific groups of customers
that we need and that is why 

336
00:20:24,300 --> 00:20:28,600
we're so successful. 
So an example, I would draw out 

337
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,900
now as we've just made an 
investment in Alto energy who 

338
00:20:31,900 --> 00:20:35,600
are Specialists heat pump 
provider. 

339
00:20:35,900 --> 00:20:39,400
Obviously this is a important 
Oughtn't, you know, move from 

340
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,900
away from gas heating towards 
heat pumps. 

341
00:20:42,100 --> 00:20:44,500
It's essential. 
We've got high number of targets

342
00:20:44,500 --> 00:20:47,900
to hit in the next few years. 
And the rapper we're putting 

343
00:20:47,900 --> 00:20:51,000
around that is to make sure for 
vulnerable customers one that 

344
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:56,400
they understand that the likely 
change to the heat experience 

345
00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:00,300
that they get from heat pump and
it to their energy usage and 

346
00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:03,300
that we take them through that 
Journey because they need much 

347
00:21:03,300 --> 00:21:06,400
greater support for example than
able to pay customer whom they 

348
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,500
researched it. 
Would have. 

349
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:13,000
So, you know, that's a whole 
ethos is around understanding 

350
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,900
what being consumers really 
want, and making sure that, 

351
00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:20,000
although, some of this work is 
funded through public money. 

352
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,000
They still feel like they're in 
control of it. 

353
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,000
Yeah. 
Ensuring say, ensuring that you 

354
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,600
sort of always always stay 
connected to the to the 

355
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,700
customers that you're serving. 
Really. 

356
00:21:31,100 --> 00:21:34,800
Yeah, I guess that's, that's 
kind of huge and Sharon to kind 

357
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:39,700
of see that that impact And then
clearly kind of the with the 

358
00:21:39,700 --> 00:21:41,900
amount of customers you're 
serving as well and at the 

359
00:21:41,900 --> 00:21:46,200
moment that's always is clearly 
very crucial and perhaps even 

360
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:50,300
more important in terms of what 
you're doing and the societies 

361
00:21:50,300 --> 00:21:54,700
that you're helping, okay? 
And then kind of looking at more

362
00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:57,500
broadly once again Michelle from
your perspective. 

363
00:21:57,500 --> 00:22:00,300
So we can have seen and heard 
about how you've worked with 

364
00:22:00,300 --> 00:22:06,000
with Sharon Angela Tek and that 
from the perspective of maybe as

365
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,300
an investor to give give advice 
to your fellow GPS, a out there 

366
00:22:10,300 --> 00:22:13,600
in terms of how they can best 
engage with their portfolio 

367
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,900
companies on the just 
transition. 

368
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,700
And how do you advise firms to 
go about kind of considering 

369
00:22:20,700 --> 00:22:29,100
this? 
Ultimately, we are all investors

370
00:22:29,100 --> 00:22:32,800
and we're looking to invest in 
companies that can deliver 

371
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,900
attractive and sustainable 
Financial returns to our 

372
00:22:36,900 --> 00:22:40,400
investors. 
And so what we've what we hope 

373
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,600
to do, with all of the companies
that we work with is to identify

374
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:51,900
those win-win opportunities. 
We're taking decisions that That

375
00:22:51,900 --> 00:22:54,600
are more inclusive, taking 
decisions that are better in 

376
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,700
terms of the planet can also 
transform, the commercial 

377
00:22:58,700 --> 00:23:01,800
success of the business. 
And I hope that's what we've 

378
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:06,000
been able to do with agility 
Yuko, which for example, as 

379
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:11,100
Sharon said with work with us, 
has now produced an excellent 

380
00:23:11,100 --> 00:23:14,900
impact report, which I believe 
and Sharon could probably 

381
00:23:14,900 --> 00:23:19,400
confirm this or not. 
Is one of the it is one of the 

382
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,700
elements that has helped to 
transform. 

383
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,700
Form. 
Also their commercial success 

384
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:29,300
and so supporting greater 
transparency, transparency and 

385
00:23:29,300 --> 00:23:33,600
accountability, we believe in 
turn can support stronger 

386
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,700
commercial and and and 
investment growth. 

387
00:23:38,700 --> 00:23:41,900
And its really finding those 
opportunities. 

388
00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:46,300
Those win-wins that can help 
companies to understand why this

389
00:23:46,300 --> 00:23:49,500
is important for them, as well 
as for the investor. 

390
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,400
Definitely, definitely. 
And I guess I'm just going to 

391
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:57,500
follow up to that in terms of 
we're still clearly at the early

392
00:23:57,500 --> 00:23:59,900
stages. 
Well, obviously not for Bridges 

393
00:23:59,900 --> 00:24:02,800
and gents UK, as well as we've 
discussed. 

394
00:24:03,300 --> 00:24:07,900
A clearly already kind of in 
integrating aspects of the just 

395
00:24:07,900 --> 00:24:10,800
transition into the business. 
And of course bridges are 

396
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,400
looking across your portfolio 
about how you can help the 

397
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,700
portfolio companies. 
And but for the investors, I 

398
00:24:17,700 --> 00:24:20,000
assume it's still quite an early
Concepts. 

399
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:25,800
Bill and the LPS, especially in 
terms of them understanding the 

400
00:24:26,500 --> 00:24:29,100
benefit of this type of 
investment. 

401
00:24:29,100 --> 00:24:32,600
And so, is that something you've
had to kind of communicate more 

402
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,400
clearly to your old piece? 
Is it something that they're 

403
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,100
interested in learning more 
about, or is it still kind of 

404
00:24:39,100 --> 00:24:42,700
early stages that if an 
interesting question, Talia? 

405
00:24:42,700 --> 00:24:48,500
And because for us both into 
inclusivity, the social 

406
00:24:48,500 --> 00:24:52,400
dimensions and the Is it true 
Dimensions have always been part

407
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:57,100
of our 4p impact things that are
around elf and around community 

408
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,900
and around education and around 
sustainable living. 

409
00:25:01,900 --> 00:25:06,300
So, for our investors, the 
inclusion of both, social and 

410
00:25:06,300 --> 00:25:10,400
environmental factors has always
been a part of reactive 

411
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:16,200
thinking, however, this concept 
of the just transition and more,

412
00:25:16,900 --> 00:25:20,000
which is now being covered in 
places like I do. 

413
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:25,000
Talked about the G7 report but 
also is a core part of. 

414
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:30,500
I think it's at least a quarter 
of the government plans for 

415
00:25:30,500 --> 00:25:33,700
climate change. 
And it's also very notably a 

416
00:25:33,700 --> 00:25:37,200
concept captured in the Paris 
agreement. 

417
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:42,000
So it's something that I think 
investors are beginning to hear 

418
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,900
more about. 
And if you think about yourself,

419
00:25:44,900 --> 00:25:48,500
if you are, for example, a 
fiduciary, investor a pension 

420
00:25:48,500 --> 00:25:51,300
fund. 
And thinking about the long-term

421
00:25:51,300 --> 00:25:56,500
needs of the pensioners that you
serve, then the transition to a 

422
00:25:56,500 --> 00:26:01,200
green economy is crucial for 
them but so also is very 

423
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,000
inclusion and the equation of 
their of their get their 

424
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,600
children in this in this 
transition my view and perhaps 

425
00:26:10,300 --> 00:26:14,100
Michelle tell me if I'm wrong 
here and obviously not all 

426
00:26:14,100 --> 00:26:18,200
companies no portfolio companies
are going to be as well suited 

427
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,200
and kind of have those synergies
said And of nicely fit into the 

428
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,100
just transition. 
And so kind of what would you 

429
00:26:25,100 --> 00:26:27,300
say? 
Some of the main barriers for of

430
00:26:27,300 --> 00:26:31,000
the just transition kind of for 
some GPS and their portfolio 

431
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,900
companies? 
Yeah. 

432
00:26:33,900 --> 00:26:37,600
Thanks Natalia. 
No, as we discussed, It's A New 

433
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,700
Concept. 
So the relatively New Concept. 

434
00:26:40,700 --> 00:26:43,500
So that's what, in a way, the 
first barrier, and I think the 

435
00:26:43,500 --> 00:26:47,200
reality is that a lot of 
companies, lot of investors are 

436
00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:51,500
mainly focused at the moment. 
If they're focused at all on 

437
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,300
carbon accounting, carbon 
reducing carbon, which is 

438
00:26:55,400 --> 00:27:00,000
fantastic, but going beyond that
and thinking in the investor 

439
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,600
strategy about whether there are
ways they can invest that, With 

440
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,100
inclusivity and that transition 
is is a next step. 

441
00:27:07,100 --> 00:27:11,500
And I think there are two ways 
of thinking about it as an 

442
00:27:11,500 --> 00:27:15,700
investor one is thinking about 
it in terms of your wider 

443
00:27:15,700 --> 00:27:18,800
investment strategy. 
So what sort of companies are we

444
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,900
invest it? 
Or we interested in selecting 

445
00:27:20,900 --> 00:27:24,600
and whether we want to whether 
you want to think about 

446
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:30,000
inclusion creation of jobs in 
the green economy, as well as 

447
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,600
the question of reduction of 
carbon and then the And question

448
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,200
that you asked Antalya is more 
at the portfolio company level 

449
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,400
once you've already made the 
investment. 

450
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,700
And there it's really a question
of thinking about the impacts of

451
00:27:43,700 --> 00:27:46,900
those companies not just, you 
know, beyond carbon really 

452
00:27:46,900 --> 00:27:49,600
thinking about the impact, the 
company's first be in terms of 

453
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,400
their a reduction of carbon then
also, in terms of inclusivity 

454
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,500
job quality and those other 
considerations. 

455
00:27:58,100 --> 00:28:02,400
What are the barriers? 
You know, always a barrier is a 

456
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,800
lack of Did metrics, which is 
why I think it is exciting that 

457
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,300
the G7 would come up with this 
recent report that I think it's 

458
00:28:09,300 --> 00:28:12,900
worth worth looking at that 
social impact report, because 

459
00:28:12,900 --> 00:28:18,000
it's seeking to set a series of 
principles for just transition 

460
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,500
investing, which will help 
investors to think in a more 

461
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:27,700
systematic way about how they, 
how they consider all factors of

462
00:28:27,700 --> 00:28:31,100
a just transition. 
Sure, sure really interesting. 

463
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,100
And, and that brings me onto 
kind of the final Point Michelle

464
00:28:34,100 --> 00:28:38,400
around - what's up what kind of 
support and regulations are 

465
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,500
available or is needed in your 
view from the government to kind

466
00:28:42,500 --> 00:28:45,200
of help towards this this 
progression and this just 

467
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:53,700
transition I guess for me the 
role of government is to is to 

468
00:28:53,700 --> 00:28:59,500
catalyze its to create a 
supportive policy environment 

469
00:28:59,700 --> 00:29:04,500
for Investments that are 
promoting sustainability. 

470
00:29:04,500 --> 00:29:08,300
And promoting the just 
transition part of this is a 

471
00:29:08,308 --> 00:29:15,400
regulatory question so helping 
to provide a clearer Baseline 

472
00:29:15,900 --> 00:29:21,300
and requirements for Good thing 
that will reduce the the 

473
00:29:21,500 --> 00:29:27,000
uncertainty about what what 
standard metrics should be. 

474
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:33,200
I think thinking about more work
on fiduciary duty and 

475
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,200
incorporating the just 
transition into the fiduciary 

476
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:44,200
duty duty of investors. 
And I think ultimately the last 

477
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:49,300
thing maybe I would say is that,
although Policy can help 

478
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:54,900
enormously the challenges that 
we Face are immediate, the 

479
00:29:54,900 --> 00:29:59,200
urgency of the need to progress 
to NetZero. 

480
00:29:59,700 --> 00:30:03,000
You know, we need to see a 
turning point by 2025. 

481
00:30:03,300 --> 00:30:08,800
So, I would urge investors not 
to wait to be told by a policy 

482
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:13,200
makers, but to start thinking 
about those issues now,