1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:02,680 Q&A time. I have career questions, 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:05,480 leadership questions, personal development questions, and we're 3 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:07,360 going to round off with podcast questions. 4 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:14,680 So sit back, relax and enjoy. We're going to start off with 5 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:16,920 the career questions. I have a lot of career questions 6 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,480 today, and this is going to be a fun one to start off with. 7 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,160 As an IC who often has to lead projects, how do you hold your 8 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,040 peers accountable to a consistent quality and delivery 9 00:00:26,080 --> 00:00:30,240 bar, especially when manager escalations don't help, don't 10 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,320 drive any improvements, and there's a constant pressure to 11 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,120 ship fast? All right, there's a lot to 12 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:38,000 unpack here. One of the fun things that I've 13 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,880 learned about myself in asking for feedback, especially when 14 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,880 projects end because I'm in a consultancy, a lot of people 15 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:49,920 have said you raise the bar and I don't quite know how I do 16 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:51,960 that. I'm very vocal when it comes to 17 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:53,840 expectations. I call people out on their 18 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,120 behaviour, not necessarily bullshit, but when there is 19 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,360 bullshit, I do call it out and I discuss a lot what I think we 20 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:03,160 need to be effective within a team. 21 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,480 Don't just focus on my own work because I like to help an 22 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,160 organization. I like to move things with 23 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:11,520 regards to impact. That's where I get my joy. 24 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,760 So to give you an example, if I come in a team and the team 25 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,920 processes are a mess, that's usually what I focus on. 26 00:01:19,320 --> 00:01:22,000 My focus will not just be individual developer 27 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,600 contribution, but I will have a conversation on how we can make 28 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,360 this thing more effective. Now, having a lot of experience 29 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,080 helps with regards to those conversations. 30 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,000 Having theoretical experience also helps. 31 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,320 And what I've noticed is that people understand the theory. 32 00:01:35,320 --> 00:01:38,200 Everyone agrees smaller teams, bigger impact. 33 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,360 Focus helps. Let's focus in this Sprint. 34 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:42,800 Let's not make sure or let's make sure there's not much 35 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:44,920 noise, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. 36 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,080 A lot of people understand the theory, but don't do the 37 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,280 behaviour actually according to the theory. 38 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,000 So that's the problem, you can understand, but in the end you 39 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,960 have to adapt your behaviour and someone needs to step out of 40 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,280 that process, oversee everything. 41 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:03,000 Sometimes don't actually partake then in discussions with regards 42 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,200 to content, because then you can observe how people are behaving, 43 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,080 how people are interacting, what might be necessary. 44 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:12,880 And I understand that this answer still, at least so far, 45 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,680 has been quite vague. But the problem is I have no 46 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:17,760 clue what the problem is in your situation. 47 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,960 In the end, I think you do need to make sure to huddle as a team 48 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,800 and to have this discussion and to say, all right, this is where 49 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,600 I think we can go and this is where we are right now. 50 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:29,760 You probably have an understanding of how to bridge 51 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,280 that gap and you have to be vocal towards your team members. 52 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:37,880 I usually have high expectations and likely this is what I've 53 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:41,680 learned too, high expectations. So I also am very vocal with 54 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:46,240 regards to this is what I think and I can be the only one that 55 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:50,000 thinks that way and that is OK. I need to make sure that if 56 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,160 other people think the same, then we have a problem and we 57 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:54,520 have something to fix. If other people don't think it's 58 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:56,200 a problem, then that's fine, right? 59 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:58,480 Then that's me. Then this might need not be the 60 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,800 best situation for me. We already talked in previous 61 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,360 Q&A's about different perspectives with regards to 62 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,680 career, drive and motivation and also family situation. 63 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,480 There's a right time and a right place and a right environment 64 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,040 for a lot of people and it can be that this environment is not 65 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:15,560 the environment where you can thrive. 66 00:03:15,920 --> 00:03:19,520 If not everyone is as career oriented as you are, especially 67 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,520 since you've tried to do escalations towards managers and 68 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,200 that also doesn't change any behaviour, then it might not be 69 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,600 the environment for you. In the end that should be kind 70 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,520 of a last breaking point in my opinion. 71 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,240 So you can try and you can still have the communication with the 72 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,440 people, have discussions with them, set your expectations, 73 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,160 actually make sure there's some some measurements and give 74 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,600 feedback and people can also give feedback to you. 75 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,320 I feel like that's in the end how you organically grow. 76 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,360 It's very hard to make this an official artificial growth 77 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,680 because in the end it also takes a lot of time. 78 00:03:54,480 --> 00:04:00,040 So, yeah, hard one, very hard. I want to touch on one one more 79 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,360 thing because you mentioned quality and delivery bar. 80 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,880 In the end, quality is kind of malleable and people have 81 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:08,760 different opinions on quality. I might sometimes prefer to 82 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:13,000 deliver faster and lower quality to test our assumptions and to 83 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,320 get that feedback and to make sure we are building the right 84 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,279 thing. Other engineers focus more on a 85 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,079 technical quality with regards to resilience and robustness and 86 00:04:21,079 --> 00:04:23,440 observability more for the long term. 87 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,080 There is a balancing quality and in the end your stakeholders, 88 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,240 your business and what the company needs and that can 89 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:31,400 differ. That can definitely have 90 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,080 differing opinions, but that should be driving the quality. 91 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,000 There's a product person there somewhere. 92 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,800 They should be able to communicate and clarify and get 93 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,080 everyone aligned on what the right quality is in balance. 94 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,840 And they should have the right experience to also listen to an 95 00:04:46,840 --> 00:04:49,600 engineering voice there because engineering quality and 96 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,280 technical quality and technical debt will make or break your 97 00:04:52,280 --> 00:04:55,560 project in the long term. You have to balance this speed 98 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:57,480 of delivery and thinking of long term. 99 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:00,040 In the end, that's the game you need to play and that's what 100 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,560 every company does. You will make mistakes and 101 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,920 making mistakes is OK Learn from them and pivot and do better 102 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:07,920 next time. In the end, that's the culture 103 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,680 that you need to adhere to. So I understand that if you have 104 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,520 a high sense of quality, you have to make sure that it's 105 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:15,960 apartment for whatever you're building. 106 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,520 Some systems need to run forever, which means 100% 107 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,600 quality with regards to system needs to run forever, that's 108 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:26,120 quite black and white. Other systems, they don't need 109 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,680 to run forever, they just need to run right now. 110 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,520 They need to get feedback, they need to apply and execute faster 111 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,240 than competitors. I don't know which in which 112 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,040 environment you're in, but you should know this or at least 113 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,520 have a conversation, open up a dialogue and make sure there's a 114 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,480 shared understanding of the quality we deliver for the task 115 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:47,400 at hand. Now follow up question, when 116 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,200 leading large cross functional programs, let's say 20 plus 117 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,000 engineers, how do you establish A scalable structure of 118 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:57,000 accountability? Man, let me preface this because 119 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,960 I've never been in this position, but immediately my 120 00:05:59,960 --> 00:06:01,760 mind goes to follow up questions. 121 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,320 According to this, if people are not accountable for the work 122 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,200 they're doing, does that mean they're saying one thing and 123 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,320 then doing another thing? Because that, for me, is 124 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,960 incredibly toxic. I truly believe in personal 125 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:14,560 values. I also believe that strong 126 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:18,160 personal values will hire people that have the same values and 127 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,640 accountability as one of them. If you say something, then do 128 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,240 what you say. If there are other factors, then 129 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:24,960 it's not necessarily accountability, right? 130 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,600 Because you can still be held accountable for delivering and 131 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,600 you might deliver something different than you promised 132 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:32,200 months ago. And that is OK. 133 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:36,040 We learn and we are agile in the way we develop software and that 134 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,160 needs to happen for sure. Having a dialogue I think with 135 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,200 even with 20 plus engineers is absolutely still possible. 136 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:44,400 And I think strong product leadership and strong 137 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,640 engineering leadership, this is the direction we're going and 138 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,720 clarifying any questions on what the business strategy is and why 139 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:55,360 we are doing the things we are and what metrics we can tweak to 140 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,160 actually help the business. And what the role is of the 141 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:02,360 individual engineering teams or even to an IC level, the people 142 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,880 that are contributing hands on individually. 143 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,640 I think that really helps in making sure there's alignment 144 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,080 and a shared mindset on what we're actually doing. 145 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:17,680 Usually, or my assumption is that when people are not 146 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:19,840 accountable, there's missing information. 147 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,880 I truly believe that people are there and they won't just coast 148 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,160 by default. If that's there and you see 149 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,440 those symptoms, then definitely there's something else is wrong. 150 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:30,520 But naturally, I'm very positive. 151 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,240 So my assumption is people are not there to coach. 152 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,240 They genuinely want to help. And if you have a feeling that 153 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,280 they're not accountable for what they're doing, you can't hold 154 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,680 them to account for their actions, then it must be 155 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:43,440 something you're missing. Definitely have those 156 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:46,520 conversations and it's a very hard one. 157 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:51,240 This is a very theoretical one. Next one, how do you stay on 158 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,360 track with your career growth when the goal posts keep moving, 159 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:59,480 particularly when moving up the company hierarchy feels more 160 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,080 political. Oh, I've definitely heard that. 161 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:04,840 When I read this question, immediately my mind went to a 162 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,360 conference I went to few months ago. 163 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,840 It was in the summer and there was a person on stage and they 164 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,280 had worked in many big tech organizations and the talk was 165 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:15,560 about how to become a staff engineer. 166 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,000 And the behaviour they described was incredibly toxic. 167 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:23,000 It had nothing to do anymore with being excellent in what you 168 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:24,480 do. And then people seeing that are 169 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,760 perceiving that and making sure you grow through that. 170 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,560 It was all about preaching what you do and making sure others 171 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,120 know and not just your team, but also making impact in other 172 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:36,880 teams. It was like, in my opinion, it 173 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,679 was not an organic way of climbing the career ladder. 174 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,320 And I haven't worked in big tech, big, big disclaimer. 175 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,040 But I have heard that this behaviour, sometimes people feel 176 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:49,760 like it's the only way to move up. 177 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:52,360 I think that's quite toxic to be honest. 178 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,520 I feel like your results should speak for themselves and people 179 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,680 that are able to deliver both results and communicate quite 180 00:08:58,680 --> 00:09:01,080 clearly, set expectations with their manager. 181 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,480 Actually ask the questions of what in your opinion, do I need 182 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,360 to do to become a staff engineer? 183 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,840 Because in the end, your manager needs to advocate for you. 184 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:12,920 Have the conversation with them and see what that is. 185 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,560 If your manager says I don't just need to know about what you 186 00:09:16,560 --> 00:09:19,440 do, but other managers need to know about what you do, then 187 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,040 it's a sad reality. But that might be an answer 188 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,560 towards your question. I and when it comes to my own 189 00:09:25,560 --> 00:09:29,600 career goals, I'm horrible at setting long term goals. 190 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:31,120 I've recently set a long term goal. 191 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,440 I want this podcast to be the biggest tech podcast that there 192 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:35,560 is. Now. 193 00:09:35,560 --> 00:09:38,800 That's the only time I've actually been able to vocalize a 194 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,000 longer term goal and it has nothing to do with my personal 195 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,680 growth and personal development. I've always been very short 196 00:09:44,680 --> 00:09:47,720 term. I started in operations within 197 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,520 operations and online I read about DevOps, then I moved to 198 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:53,640 development software engineering, then I moved to 199 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,280 consultancy and I did project after project when someone was 200 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:57,360 like, do you want to do front end? 201 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,560 I was like, I've never done it before, sounds fun, let's learn. 202 00:10:00,560 --> 00:10:04,240 It was not a goal for me. In the end, it genuinely piqued 203 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:06,600 my interest and I wanted to understand what people are doing 204 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,200 compared to what I know on the back end that I've done. 205 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,760 So everything has been kind of been an organic learning curve 206 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,520 and an organic growth. Curiosity has always been the 207 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,320 biggest driver in essence for me. 208 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,640 So I might set smaller or short term goal posts with regards to 209 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,760 what I want to learn or but honestly those have always been 210 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:28,720 curiosity driven in the end. Longer goal posts have been with 211 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,560 regards to it's not necessarily moving up the career ladder 212 00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:33,480 because my company's kind of unique in the way we don't 213 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,440 really have titles. So I have the same title almost 214 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,480 seven years when I joined and I still have the same title in 215 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:41,720 essence. Nothing changed. 216 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,240 My salary changed significantly, but there's no moving up the 217 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,160 career ladder here. Now that's can be both a pro and 218 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,560 a con because people have also left because of that, because 219 00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:53,440 they say don't really feel like there's a lot of career growth. 220 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:57,280 And that might also mean within a function title, but I have had 221 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,160 different function titles, different roles and 222 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,720 responsibilities in the client projects that I do. 223 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,160 I moved from software engineering to product and now 224 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,760 again software engineering, I applied for an architect role. 225 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,440 Like everything is open and you can have and kind of carve out 226 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,280 your own career path. So when it comes to roles and 227 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:18,040 responsibilities, I feel like you can even join as an IC and 228 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,320 by virtue of you making impact, you can, people can just give 229 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,600 you more responsibilities. You can be like, I'm not happy 230 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,840 within this IC role. And if you've made good rapport 231 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:28,840 and people respect you and people see that you've made 232 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,920 impact beyond just being an IC, they will look towards their own 233 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:35,240 organization to make you happy and to give you more roles and 234 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,880 responsibilities or to give you more responsibilities even 235 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,320 without having the role or the title necessarily. 236 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,760 Maybe it's unique in the way I do personal development and goal 237 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,360 setting. I have had conversations with a 238 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:50,360 coach, but I I find it very difficult to set long term goals 239 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,000 for myself. It's just maybe the way I 240 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:56,080 operate right now. I also like to keep busy, so 241 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,040 maybe I don't even have time to consciously think of long term. 242 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,880 I feel like if I would focus and do one thing and say in six 243 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,520 months I want to do this, I think I would be more effective, 244 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:08,320 but I would let go of a lot of things that I'm doing. 245 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,160 So I'm doing a lot of things in parallel. 246 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,480 I'm doing a podcast, I'm doing software engineering, I'm part 247 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,360 of the works council. I'm building a company in the 248 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,160 weekends. I have many ideas on personal 249 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,360 projects that I want to do that I haven't executed yet. 250 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:25,120 Yeah, there's a lot of stuff to do and I'm having fun doing it. 251 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:26,560 I think that's the most important part. 252 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:28,880 Don't just focus on your career and goal setting. 253 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:33,040 Also have fun along the way, or at least do it consciously and 254 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,120 at some point you will need to have fun because otherwise it's 255 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:39,320 not sustainable. Technology is evolving faster 256 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,960 than ever. New frameworks, AI tools, system 257 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,800 paradigms every few months. Fair enough. 258 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:47,360 How do you personally stay relevant and keep learning 259 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,120 without burning out? I think like the keep relevant 260 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,880 question has come up in previous Q and as as well. 261 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:56,520 I have a good memory and I feel like this is a question I've 262 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:00,960 answered before. I feel like learning, being 263 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,160 curious and continuously trying to execute. 264 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,400 Setting the bar high for yourself and also within your 265 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:08,600 team. Make sure you are relevant. 266 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,560 In the end, it's not about the technology or the knowledge that 267 00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:13,400 you have. It's about how you apply what 268 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,480 you know in whatever business context you have. 269 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,120 Learning is fun, but you won't be able to apply whatever you 270 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,320 learn, right? You can learn about a new AI 271 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,600 paradigm, but if you're not actually being able, if you're 272 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,600 not able to use AI assisted Co tooling or you're not building 273 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:32,840 AI functionality within a product, then in the end, it's 274 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:34,640 nice. It's nice to learn about evals 275 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,120 from a product sense, but if I'm not building an AI functionality 276 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:39,840 within my product, then I'm never going to use evals. 277 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,080 So I know the theoretical knowledge, but I'm not able to 278 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,920 apply it. So it's nice. 279 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,840 I like it because I'm curious about certain things and I can 280 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,600 kind of deepen that out. But in the end, to be effective 281 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,520 in what you do to stay relevant within your current role, I 282 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,720 think you need to focus on what you need to do at hand, or not 283 00:13:57,720 --> 00:13:59,400 just you, but also the team in the company. 284 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,880 In essence, that's how you make bigger ripples of impact. 285 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,440 I feel like if you are not happy with your role, then indeed 286 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,440 having the theoretical knowledge of another role or another 287 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:11,880 discipline is really going to help. 288 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,360 What will then be make or break is how you've still applied that 289 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:19,400 in practice, maybe not at your current role, maybe in personal 290 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,040 projects. In essence, when I had the 291 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:27,120 conversation of product manager role, I had never done or been 292 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,440 responsible for product management. 293 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:34,000 But I have had the experience as an engineer very close to 294 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:35,400 product. That's what I leveraged. 295 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,720 I was 100% honest. I've never had these 296 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:39,920 responsibilities, but this is what I've done in the past. 297 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,280 In essence, this is what I have applied and this is the 298 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,520 knowledge I have. That was the conversation. 299 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:46,920 Someone took a chance on me, they believed in me and they 300 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,360 gave me that rule. So yeah, quite happy with that. 301 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,400 So the relevant part was one of it. 302 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:54,280 But also there's the learning without burning out. 303 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:56,320 In essence, have some grace for yourself. 304 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,640 You can't know everything about everything. 305 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,440 That is ridiculous. Have some grace for yourself. 306 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,680 It's OK not to know about certain topics and be like, oh, 307 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:05,160 that's interesting, I didn't know that. 308 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,920 And you can make a note and then deep dive later on. 309 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,760 It's OK to say I don't know this yet, but to have the drive and 310 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,960 the curiosity to keep learning, I feel like that's what you need 311 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,760 in essence to be long term successful within this industry. 312 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,120 What's the difference between working as an engineer in 313 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,720 countries like Pakistan or India versus working at Silicon Valley 314 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,240 or tech giants? To be honest, I have no clue, 315 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,960 but bear with me. Beyond just communication and 316 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,600 documentation, what are the technical differences and how 317 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,920 can engineers breakthrough these barriers? 318 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,160 I feel like there's enough technical knowledge out there in 319 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,240 the open to have an equal level of technical knowledge in 320 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:42,480 essence, no matter where you are. 321 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,600 So let's just disregard India, Pakistan or Silicon Valley 322 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,600 because I have never worked in those environments. 323 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,600 But hypothetically, if the technical knowledge is equal, 324 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,760 then what is going to distinguish you in a certain 325 00:15:54,760 --> 00:16:00,760 country from me in this country? Then it will be, that's The 326 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:02,760 funny thing, right? It will be everything beyond 327 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,800 technical, everything beyond coding podcast name. 328 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,560 In essence, it is communication, understanding your cultural 329 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,360 differences. It's OK to say no in certain 330 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,680 cases. It's OK to say I don't know this 331 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,640 in certain cases. In other cases, absolutely not. 332 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:19,920 You say no, you're an idiot, you're out. 333 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:21,880 I've never worked in those environments. 334 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,000 But understanding the cultural differences, especially when 335 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,160 you're working in a global context is really going to help 336 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,640 you. And also being aware of how you 337 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,400 grew up in the context that you're in, the cultural 338 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,280 differences from your country. And though just the way you 339 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,520 communicate, being aware of that, being open minded of that, 340 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,720 having a certain level of self reflection, asking feedback from 341 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:47,760 colleagues abroad, hopefully within a safe environment will 342 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:51,240 actually open your mind and be like, is this effective for what 343 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,160 we're trying to do or do anything to change and adapt. 344 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,160 And it's incredibly hard to change something, right? 345 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,760 I am now 30 years old. It's incredibly hard to change 346 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,760 behaviour that has been moulded for the last 30 years. 347 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,200 I'm trying to be incredibly open minded. 348 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,240 I'm trying to be aware of other cultural differences. 349 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,160 And I feel like when you're working in a global context, 350 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,720 that is how you can make that is one of the options to make a 351 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:20,800 difference if technical expertise is equal. 352 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,680 And I feel like if your technical expertise is not 353 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,040 equal, then there's work to be done. 354 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,280 Because in the end, results do matter, right? 355 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:30,640 You can be the best communicator. 356 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,720 I feel like I've been in situations where I'm a really 357 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,600 good communicator, but I feel horrible because I'm not 358 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,920 delivering and I have to put my head down and actually deliver 359 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,040 as well as an individual and also as a team. 360 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:48,080 In the end, this is a fun one. How long does the motivation 361 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,960 from a raise actually last and how do you decide whether to 362 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:56,120 stay at your company, if you can get a better offer or when you 363 00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:58,280 actually have a better offer? All right, so when you actually 364 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:02,000 have a better offer, you've already been looking outside, so 365 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:03,400 now there's a decision to be had. 366 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,240 All right. Do you take the offer? 367 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,920 Is it better than what you have? What are you leaving behind in 368 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:11,520 people and culture and environment that you have built 369 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,040 up in whatever time you've been working at the organization? 370 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:18,080 I have seen someone get a better offer and they use that and 371 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,080 leverage that because they didn't actually want to leave. 372 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,960 Talked to their manager and they got like a 20% bump. 373 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,120 All right. This in essence already says 374 00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:28,160 that some of the processes when it comes to raises and 375 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,560 promotions are broken because they got a 20% raise and I 376 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:33,840 forgot. They also got a promotion. 377 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,560 So there was a lot of hush hush and no one could talk about it, 378 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,200 but in the end, they were happy. I've seen that happen. 379 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,840 I've also seen people where when they get a better offer, current 380 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,040 company just says we cannot match that. 381 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:47,680 Congratulations. It's a different domain, a 382 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,280 different industry, a different business model. 383 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:54,440 So some business models, engineers earn more per head 384 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:58,320 count than other industries. That's just a fact. 385 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,640 In the end, in big tech, that's what is there. 386 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,400 Otherwise, how can they afford higher salaries compared to 387 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,000 other domains? It's just how it works in 388 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,120 essence. So the impact that you have as 389 00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:14,160 an engineer has bigger impact on the company and their operations 390 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,960 and their revenue. So in essence, they value you 391 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,000 more as an engineer in certain industries, which is fair. 392 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:21,880 So not every company can match it. 393 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,440 Now, when it comes to a raise and the whole promotion process, 394 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:29,760 it's very much up to the individual, right? 395 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,240 Are you early in career? Are you happy with where you 396 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,160 are? Do you feel like you're actually 397 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,520 being valued, not just on a personal level, not just in 398 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:40,520 communication and feedback, but also financially? 399 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,040 If you're feeling undervalued, then that will sit with you and 400 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,160 it will take a long, long time. And you have to decide, am I OK 401 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,840 with this? Have I done everything here to 402 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,080 make sure this is it? Basically, have I voiced my 403 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:54,760 concerns? Have I voiced my frustrations? 404 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:56,400 Is it OK? Is it safe to do that? 405 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,640 Is there any wiggle room with regards to the raise I've 406 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:00,440 gotten? Am I happy with that? 407 00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:04,960 And if all the answers are no, you're not happy, Yes, you've 408 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,240 done everything that you can. Then in essence, you have to 409 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:13,120 decide, am I going to accept it? Am I OK here or am I not happy 410 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,320 and am I actively going to work on moving to a different 411 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,800 company? I feel like doing it half half, 412 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:21,680 you have to be really good to get an offer in the end. 413 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,720 But doing it half half also is going to smear this out over 414 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,640 many, many months. If you've decided this is no 415 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,440 longer the environment for me, then you can continuously and 416 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,920 actively actually look outside. Still, make sure to be 417 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,200 responsible. You can be held accountable. 418 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,520 That's OK. Make sure to do your job in 419 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,320 essence, because you haven't left yet, but it's OK to look 420 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:43,240 outside. Not every environment is a good 421 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,120 fit anymore. Some people might outpace the 422 00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:48,440 scale of an environment or the growth of an environment, right? 423 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:53,200 And that's OK to move on. I hope that salary's not the 424 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,360 only motivation. I really like working with 425 00:20:56,360 --> 00:20:58,280 people. The tech industry is very people 426 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,400 oriented. The way people give feedback, 427 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,120 the way they create environments for others to thrive, to make 428 00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:06,320 impact within companies, to actually achieve business goals. 429 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:08,840 And doing this together, this whole feeling of togetherness, 430 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,480 I'd be like that as one of my biggest drivers is the people 431 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,000 and the reasons why we're doing this and the openness and 432 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,480 transparency and financials and numbers and results and how I 433 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,760 can make impact with just myself and also within a team. 434 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,680 I really enjoy that. If that's gone but I'm getting 435 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,880 paid double, I'm not sure if I'll be happy actually. 436 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,640 Because in the end, if I have questions and there's no 437 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,560 answers, it is incredibly frustrating. 438 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,760 So money will make me happy, but only to a certain degree. 439 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,280 It's OK to earn and be happy with what you earn. 440 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:42,760 I think this is a challenging one. 441 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,360 How do you build credibility and authority in your workplace? 442 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,200 Authority and credibility. It's definitely not knowing it 443 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,920 all or being a know all. Because then people think, sure, 444 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,720 you might be right and you might be right all the time, every 445 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:58,400 single time, but you're still an asshole, right? 446 00:21:58,400 --> 00:21:59,560 That's not going to give you authority. 447 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,800 People might just in spite of it say no or hinder you just 448 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,400 because they don't like you. To be honest, credibility is 449 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:08,200 also being authentic to who you are. 450 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:10,880 One of my main drivers has always been curiosity. 451 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,920 I joined a recent assignment in healthcare very specifically 452 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,400 with a very focused assignment and I saw a lot of things where 453 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,920 I thought if we tweak this we will be more effective as an 454 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,760 organization. Or when I heard the strategy of 455 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,840 the company, I would ask questions on have we thought of 456 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,160 these things because I think these are interesting avenues or 457 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,720 do we have any numbers here to actually back up? 458 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,320 Or are these assumptions? I really like facts that are 459 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,480 backed up by numbers versus assumptions that we have and we 460 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,840 are acting on assumptions and that is absolutely OK. 461 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,320 But be clear in your communication so I can help. 462 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,360 And I can also think along, are there any other assumptions or 463 00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:50,440 have we actually looked into this Ave. is the strategy, does 464 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:52,680 it hold true? Why are we doing this thing? 465 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,760 What we can also do these things, Those are the questions 466 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,640 that I typically ask and actually the feedback has been 467 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,360 Patrick came in and the questions he asked was a little 468 00:23:02,360 --> 00:23:04,000 bit uncomfortable at the beginning. 469 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,000 Maybe it's the way I ask. I am quite direct and I can come 470 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,800 across as quite critical. I'm very happy it was not 471 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,240 construed as negative because that has also happened. 472 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,960 But people appreciate this level of critique, this level of 473 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,360 insights and thinking along and thoroughly actually wanting the 474 00:23:20,360 --> 00:23:22,920 best for the business. That builds credibility. 475 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,720 You have the separate part of doing what you say you'll do and 476 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,840 actually delivering results builds even more credibility. 477 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,200 I feel like this is what gives you authority. 478 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,800 And the interesting thing is you cannot take authority. 479 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,400 Most of the time other people have to give this to you, which 480 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,600 is interesting, right? You can do everything for 481 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,480 yourself and be a one man army, but in the end you will have no 482 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,800 authority because other people will have to decide certain 483 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,160 things and they will decide without you. 484 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,160 If you're being this one man army, authority has to be given 485 00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,640 to you. And you can build up that with 486 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,600 indeed being credible, with indeed being honest. 487 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,320 It's a lot of personal and intrinsic values. 488 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,320 So if you feel like people are not necessarily respecting you 489 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,120 or they're bypassing you with certain decisions, open up the 490 00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:15,880 conversation. Say I'd like to be involved. 491 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,560 Is there somewhere where I can help or is there any reason why? 492 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,120 Well, the this is kind of like this is where it's very nuanced 493 00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:25,520 because sometimes people feel entitled that they have to be 494 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,680 involved. But you can be genuinely curious 495 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,760 and be like, I thought I would have added value in this way and 496 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:32,800 I wasn't involved. Is there any particular reason 497 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,920 if they don't see the value that you would have added, that's the 498 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,240 conversation, right? And you can say, this is what I 499 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,560 actually think I can add and I'd like to have feedback if that's 500 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,880 actually the case. Can you invite me next time so 501 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,800 we can see and I can learn and I can grow. 502 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,520 People are incredibly helpful for people that are open minded, 503 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,960 that just want to learn and grow and make impact. 504 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,280 If you act out of entitlement and the tech lead, why wasn't I 505 00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,000 involved here, then people will be like, oh, start getting 506 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,680 defensive. You'll notice that when people 507 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,840 are trying to defend themselves or you weren't available and I 508 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,920 need to do this and it's your calendar and it's like pointing 509 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,800 fingers. Don't go there, try and be open, 510 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:15,040 trying to understand and I feel like people will give you a 511 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,200 certain level of authority. It's not going to be the whole 512 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:18,160 world. They're not going to make you 513 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,960 CEO of the company, but bit by bit and it's a long term play, 514 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:23,680 you'll build up political credit. 515 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,400 You'll be able to use that and capitalize and make more impact 516 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,200 and making more positive impact. Also, looking back, it's a lot 517 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,880 of fun. What advice would you give your 518 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,680 junior developer self? What would have helped you stand 519 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,520 out and accelerate your career early on? 520 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,280 So this is the thing, I'm actually quite happy. 521 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,800 And if you were to ask me, do you have any regrets? 522 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,760 I don't know if I have, I feel like I learned organically. 523 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,120 I'm quite happy with what I've learned so far. 524 00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:53,960 It has gotten me to the place that I'm in now and I'm quite 525 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,360 happy. So would I change anything? 526 00:25:57,360 --> 00:26:01,080 I feel like there's a lot of times where I felt inadequate, 527 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,480 definitely imposter syndrome, like I'm not smart enough to be 528 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,080 here or I'm not experienced enough to partake in this 529 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,800 conversation. Those were a lot of thoughts and 530 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:12,320 I never validated them with people. 531 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,360 I feel like I, I hope or my advice would be that in the end, 532 00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:18,440 you'll make it. Just keep doing what you're 533 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,520 doing good intrinsic values, open minded perspective, having 534 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,520 equal level of conversation with your peers and with others. 535 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:30,520 In the end, be less impressed and more involved. 536 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,640 It's like a Matthew McConaughey quote that I listened to a 537 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,760 podcast of his and I really like it. 538 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:36,480 I was very impressed with titles. 539 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,200 CTO, oh I'm having a conversation and the CT OS at 540 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,720 the table and Oh no my 2 colleagues are not there and 541 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,000 something fucked up and now they don't got to ask me questions. 542 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:46,440 It would freak the hell out of me. 543 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,800 And going through that process has actually helped me realize 544 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,880 that it's OK. It's OK to say I don't know and 545 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,800 it's OK to say This is why we did things and explain things 546 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,680 and learn if it was a mistake or explain why we did things to 547 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,280 actually enlighten others. And oh, maybe it's not a big 548 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,320 deal. And the CTO is also just the 549 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,280 person and they are new in the role and they've never had that 550 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,760 role. And they also make mistakes or 551 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,160 these are the things they're good at and these are the things 552 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,760 they're not as good at having, having a conversation on and 553 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,920 learning on. What does it actually mean to 554 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:20,840 have this role and these responsibilities? 555 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,560 And do I like that or experiencing and learning? 556 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,960 I don't like these things and I do like these things. 557 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,040 It's OK, in the end you'll end up where you'll end up and you 558 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,840 can work consciously towards goal setting and actually 559 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,760 focusing, or you can go wide and let curiosity Dr. you and make 560 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,640 sure you go where the wind goes. It's OK Have fun. 561 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,320 Make sure you're happy with what you're doing. 562 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,360 If you're not happy, switch gears. 563 00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:47,600 Communicate, be vocal, be close to your manager, actually have a 564 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,240 good relationship with the people around you. 565 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,320 And if the environment's not a good fit, change environments. 566 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:54,000 It's it. Be flexible. 567 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:58,280 I'm very not rigid. I've learned I like processes 568 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,960 when they're effective, not processes to have processes and 569 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,240 I'm quite open minded. I want to understand before I 570 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,040 form an opinion. I am very critical. 571 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,200 I've also learned and certain level certain people can handle 572 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,120 that critique and other people have labeled me as negative or 573 00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:20,320 objectively negative. I handle objectively and I've 574 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,560 seen other people handle emotionally and when I was 575 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,760 furious, I can keep my emotions in check and that's OK. 576 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,280 And other people cannot and that's also OK. 577 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,360 Let them cool off and communicate later. 578 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,920 I feel like I've gone through all these things. 579 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,520 I've hit little Rd. bumps. It's OK to fail, get back up and 580 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,160 continue. I would have a conversation on 581 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,280 kind of what I've learned and then we're quite happy and I'm 582 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,600 quite proud to be honest. It's OK to be proud as well with 583 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,280 what you've achieved. So yeah, no regrets. 584 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:52,960 Junior developer. You can do it. 585 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:58,720 Ask for help early on, took me a while, was very much focused on 586 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,880 being on an island, figuring out everything myself, and in 587 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:07,840 essence asking for help is OK. Now what is effective delegation 588 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:13,280 and how do you actually do it? Well, delegating depends on the 589 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,680 responsibilities you have. So within product, I felt like 590 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,880 my time was finite and I had a big engineering team, so I 591 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,880 needed to spend my time with that big engineering team. 592 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,920 If the engineering team comes to a standstill, then that would be 593 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,160 a waste, right? Having 10 people not really 594 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,480 working on what is important for what we're trying to achieve 595 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,840 here. From a product sense, I felt 596 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:35,400 like that was the most important thing. 597 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,880 If there were other things where I felt like either people from 598 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,640 within the team or any of the stakeholders or any of the other 599 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,080 people that I was working with could do it, I would ask them. 600 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,400 I would ask them for help. I can't make this. 601 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,400 I need to do these things. Can you help me with these 602 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:50,560 things? And I would trust them. 603 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,320 There are certain things, and I'm still experimenting with 604 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,560 this because I don't quite know where. 605 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,160 It's OK for people to make mistakes. 606 00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,560 It's OK for people to do it differently than you would have 607 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:01,840 had otherwise. But you cannot do everything 608 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,120 yourself at a certain level when you get certain responsibilities 609 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,960 or a certain role. So delegate, experiment, see 610 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,720 what people can handle, see when it's too much for them to 611 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,880 handle, and when you do need to step in and see what work is 612 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,280 crucial. It's OK for people to make 613 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,360 mistakes, fail, and learn and get back up. 614 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,520 It's OK for timelines to move and people to learn and grow. 615 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,040 Sometimes it's not, and that's really when it's going to be a 616 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,080 differentiating factor in what you can delegate and what you 617 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,240 definitely need to make sure that if these things do not get 618 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,360 handled well, then everything falls apart. 619 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,920 Some people are a little bit more risk averse than me. 620 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,560 I like having people around me that are very curious, that are 621 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,800 driven. If I give them something, I can 622 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,400 trust that they do it and I tell them, and usually if you have 623 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,240 the right people, doesn't matter if they fail and they get back 624 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:56,440 up, because in essence, if it's their responsibility, they will 625 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,800 be hold, held to account. Even though it's I'm actually 626 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,120 accountable. They will take that and they 627 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,160 will run with it. If they fail, they'll get back 628 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:04,760 up. If they really need this, 629 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,080 they'll put in hours of themselves, not that I asked, 630 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,680 but they'll do it themselves. That's that intrinsic motivation 631 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,040 because someone gave them something that's important and 632 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,360 they don't want to disappoint. The right people will do that 633 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,840 for you. Now it takes a lot of 634 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:20,560 experimenting. It takes a lot of self 635 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,080 reflection, asking for feedback. Are you someone that 636 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,720 micromanages? If it's very important to you, 637 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,400 if it's very close to your heart and you give that away, your 638 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,360 tendency will be to that's not how I would have done it. 639 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,800 To dot the IS in a different way to give feedback exactly the way 640 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,240 you would have done it. And that is micromanaging. 641 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,120 To be honest, if you cannot let go of the things you've 642 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,800 delegated, then either don't do that or make sure make sure 643 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,720 you're not in that position. Basically, it's very difficult. 644 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,200 Trust other people with the work that you give away, and then 645 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,280 have faith that they'll make sure to actually hold up to your 646 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,960 trust. Give them feedback and let them 647 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:58,600 handle it. Don't take over. 648 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,880 Please resist all urges to take over. 649 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,800 I've done that, and then I reflect it and I felt horrible. 650 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,840 Learn from that. In essence, try, experiment, see 651 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:10,640 what works well for you. See what you're comfortable in 652 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,080 and that's it. I feel like that's the only way 653 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,280 to learn about delegation and to make sure you know what works 654 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,360 for you and in which cases with what work. 655 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,440 It's quite a big one. What does being a team player 656 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,080 actually mean in engineering teams and how do you balance it 657 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,600 with standing out individually? Now, standing out individually, 658 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,080 is that something you want? Do you want the whole team to be 659 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,400 like, man, Patrick's is a legend, he really stands out, Or 660 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,040 do you want the team to stand out and people be like, man, 661 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,400 this team, they rock. And then within that team, they 662 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,160 know who's good at what and everyone that has equal levels 663 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,280 of respect. I've always kind of navigated 664 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,680 and gravitated towards the team aspect. 665 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,680 In essence, I don't care if I'm the one that stands up. 666 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,040 I like that the team stands out and I like being part of a team 667 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,160 because I feel like if I stand out and there's something I 668 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:05,320 can't do, there's this more is a bigger pressure, bigger stress, 669 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,400 like heavier weights on my shoulders. 670 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,520 Maybe that's the whole reason why I think within a team with 671 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,920 distributed works and multiple minds, if you have a really good 672 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,080 team, you can do whatever you need. 673 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,320 Basically. You'll you'll grab people from 674 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,000 other teams, you'll get the necessary expertise, you'll 675 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,240 delegate, you'll learn about each other's networks. 676 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,000 You'll make sure to do whatever you need to to execute as a 677 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,320 team. I don't have to stand out. 678 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,040 In essence, I do feel like within that team, I need to 679 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:36,120 deliver because if the team delivers and I don't deliver, I 680 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,320 feel horrible because I am part of that team. 681 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,040 So also individually I need to contribute. 682 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,160 I need to show results because if the team shows results and 683 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,120 I'm, I'm not upholding my part of the deal. 684 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,280 It feels bad to be honest, but I don't have to stand out. 685 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,720 People will know what you're good at within that team. 686 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:56,080 And typically, if you're not an asshole, if you're a kind 687 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,920 person, if you communicate well, if you're clear, other people 688 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:03,000 will also know because great people will tell other people 689 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,440 about great people. I feel like that really holds 690 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,200 true. If you ask me who's the best 691 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,120 engineer I've ever worked with, I'll give you a list. 692 00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:12,800 And it's not because those people stood out individually. 693 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:14,320 No, they execute it when it mattered. 694 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,800 They communicate quite clearly. I can rely on them when I don't 695 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,159 know something and that feels really good. 696 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,840 I'll remember that. And they don't have to stand out 697 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:24,520 individually or within a company. 698 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,639 That happens naturally. It's the same with the whole 699 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,239 authorities granted to you. You can't necessarily take it. 700 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,719 Some people will think you're an asshole or you're cold or you're 701 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:36,400 arrogant. Arrogant, I think, is the worst 702 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:41,760 one authorities granted to you, And it's only by doing great 703 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:45,239 things. What is working on yourself mean 704 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,320 for engineers beyond technical skills? 705 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,280 What personal development actually matters? 706 00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:53,760 Yeah, it's a funny thing. I feel like it's a theme all 707 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,240 across my podcast, to be honest. Personal development for 708 00:34:57,240 --> 00:34:59,960 engineers beyond the technical side. 709 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,240 I feel like I really zoned in on this in the previous episode, 710 00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:09,440 previous Q&A on how to get a job remotely or from a different 711 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,840 country. And the single best answer that 712 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,400 that I can give you is honestly, communication. 713 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,560 Being able to be brilliant in different types of 714 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,560 conversations. For me, that's communication. 715 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:27,200 So one versus many 1V1, one-on-one, one-on-one. 716 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,320 When it comes to someone that is in a completely different 717 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,240 culture, in a completely different country. 718 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,360 And make sure you are still effective with what you need to 719 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,480 achieve. For me, that's communication, 720 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:37,720 right? It's different levels of 721 00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:39,080 conversation. It's different types of 722 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,480 conversation. The only way you'll be better at 723 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,680 that is if you work on the way you talk. 724 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,520 So I don't mind accents. I think accents are brilliant. 725 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,600 The way you articulate is incredibly important because if 726 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,720 you have a heavy accent and you articulate the way you do in 727 00:35:56,720 --> 00:35:59,640 your mother tongue, then it's not the same as articulating and 728 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:04,040 being very clear in English. That's the level of articulation 729 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,400 that I need, because then you're clear, and if other people can 730 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,160 understand you, we can have a equal level of dialogue. 731 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,800 In essence, communication, I feel like is not just a skill 732 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,600 that's going to help you in this career within tech, but it's a 733 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,200 life skill, right? If something happens on the 734 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,400 street, being able to communicate well, man, this is 735 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,960 kind of a, an odd example, but with whatever interaction you 736 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:29,200 have, either with if it's within family or if it's within friend 737 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,120 groups, being able to communicate well, I think it's 738 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,280 really valuable. People will want to talk to you 739 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,760 more if you communicate well. If you know your boundaries 740 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:42,000 between talking too much and not talking too much, you're a 741 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,080 pleasant conversation partner basically. 742 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:47,240 And I think that holds a lot of value. 743 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,000 If someone is insecure or they have concerns, they might be 744 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,200 more likely to go to you. You'll have more information 745 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:59,120 just by virtue of being a better communication person, person to 746 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:03,520 talk to, communicate, to work. So yeah, that for me would be 747 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,880 the single biggest valuable skill, not just technical skill, 748 00:37:07,240 --> 00:37:11,040 but also life skill. OK. 749 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:16,240 What's your take on engineers that rely heavily on AI and LLM 750 00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:18,760 tools? There is a distinction between 751 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,320 people that are starting off and people that are quite 752 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,320 experienced. I've recently joined as software 753 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,200 engineer and I'm using AI tooling and I love it. 754 00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:31,840 I really enjoy it because I'm doing infrastructure as code and 755 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,360 I'm very curious to see what is deployed versus what we need to 756 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,920 do and what is there in code. And AI is really good at that. 757 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,280 I can do that manually myself, but if I have a really good 758 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,200 product spec somewhere in Linear or in Jira, and I can basically 759 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,400 pull that in and I have the context of what is there from 760 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,520 infrastructure, both in the code, but also, for example, on 761 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,720 Azure, I can get that through the CLI and I can make magic 762 00:37:53,720 --> 00:37:56,000 happen. And in essence, I'm a person 763 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,280 that reads more code and I'm a person that reviews, but I don't 764 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,000 have to necessarily execute. I do have to understand because 765 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,280 otherwise how can I instruct and how can I steer? 766 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:06,920 That's when it's incredibly valuable. 767 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:09,880 Now, to get to that point, you do have to conceptually 768 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,040 understand a lot of things and it's very easy if you have AI 769 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,120 tooling that is like magic to use that magic for a lot of 770 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,000 things. There's a lot of studies with 771 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,760 regards to if critical thinking doesn't happen, then information 772 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,920 doesn't retain. And this is the pitfall when it 773 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,680 comes to AI tooling. Now the tooling itself is 774 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,240 evolving. We don't know what the impact is 775 00:38:29,240 --> 00:38:32,960 going to be or what the eventual ripple effects also for junior 776 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,880 engineers will be. But from a tooling perspective, 777 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,400 the companies that are building these tools, they should be 778 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,200 aware of this. There is already learning 779 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,920 functionality in there where a lot of the boilerplate when it 780 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,320 comes to software engineering or actually writing code is then 781 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,120 done. And then you as engineer, you're 782 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,440 left to fill in the blanks. You can actually set, for 783 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,520 example, cloud code to that in a learning mode. 784 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,760 And then you have to think, does this make sense? 785 00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,000 What do I actually need to do and do actually the work? 786 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,600 If you do that and you're conscious with the way you 787 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,400 learn, the way you retain information, it is incredibly 788 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,240 valuable and it's incredibly powerful. 789 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:11,880 There are a lot of things on social media, especially 790 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,440 LinkedIn and Twitter, when it comes to if AI doesn't generate 791 00:39:15,720 --> 00:39:18,360 95% of your code, you're doing something wrong. 792 00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:22,360 Those people, honestly, when you read that, they want a reaction 793 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,080 in the comments section because that makes sure that they get 794 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,320 bigger posts and more impressions and that'll increase 795 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,520 their social presence. They don't necessarily care 796 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,760 about being accurate. This is a lot of assumptions on 797 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:35,920 my end by the way. But I don't think those people 798 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,400 care about being accurate because people will tell them in 799 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,440 the comments. Actually, in this case, it's not 800 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,200 really accurate. And that's engagement. 801 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,440 This is 100% engagement farming. That's how I read the situation. 802 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,520 Don't get triggered. Form your own opinion and it's 803 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:49,840 OK. Discuss it with the people you 804 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:51,840 trust. Don't discuss it with a random 805 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,440 person on the Internet, although that also sometimes has it's 806 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:55,440 merit. Merits. 807 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,160 But there's a high chance that you'll get frustrated, and 808 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:00,840 there's no reason to get frustrated. 809 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:02,760 Because of people on the Internet. 810 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,800 That to me makes no sense. There's a lot of things better 811 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:07,760 to be frustrated about. Don't let it stress you out. 812 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,560 Is volunteering at tech conferences worth it for 813 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,400 networking and learning? What's your experience with 814 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,680 this? I'm actually going to a 815 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,280 conference at the end of November. 816 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:23,280 I'm having a lot of fun hosting and also just participating. 817 00:40:23,720 --> 00:40:25,480 Not just being in the organization, but actually going 818 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,120 to events, talking to people that are like minded. 819 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,160 And actually I'll have a discount code. 820 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,520 So if you've made it this far, there will be something in the 821 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,160 description. I'm giving away tickets to React 822 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,600 Advanced and there's an advanced Tech lead conference that I'm 823 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,800 also taking part of. It's the end of November. 824 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:42,640 All the details will be in the description. 825 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,320 So for the people that have not made it this far, you are in a 826 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,800 unique position both to get the ticket as well as to get the 827 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,640 discount codes. Leave a comment if you're 828 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,160 interested in this ticket. I'm going to try something new 829 00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:56,320 and I'll only do the people that leave a comment. 830 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,840 So you should have already made it this far in the episode. 831 00:40:59,720 --> 00:41:01,320 Leave a comment saying I want the ticket. 832 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:04,560 That's it. Then I'll enroll you and I'll 833 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:06,960 give away the ticket. I have to figure out how many I 834 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:08,880 can give away. I'll try and give away as many 835 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,720 as possible, but there will be a little bit more things in the 836 00:41:11,720 --> 00:41:12,880 description. Leave a comment. 837 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:14,160 People will be like, what the hell is this? 838 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:15,280 They might look at the time stamp. 839 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:17,080 Doesn't matter. All right, if you leave a 840 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,400 comment, I'll enroll you. Now, when it comes to actually 841 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,920 participating in events, it's incredibly good at giving you 842 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,680 energy in what you do. You go to a conference, in this 843 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,280 case React Advanced because you like React. 844 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,000 You want to learn more about advanced topics, things that are 845 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,360 now applicable, but also things long term on the horizon when it 846 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,120 is applicable. You'll be like, oh, I knew about 847 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,160 this thing because I heard about these things, or I know how to 848 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,760 reach out to certain people to actually learn more. 849 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,400 I'll follow their blog or their newsletter or their podcast. 850 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,800 Incredibly good with regards to giving you energy and what you 851 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,000 do on a day-to-day. So that's valuable both from a 852 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,480 participation standpoint. But the added benefit when 853 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,240 you're part of the organization or you're a volunteer is that 854 00:41:57,240 --> 00:41:58,760 you talk to the people that organize it. 855 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,440 You talk to the speakers more so than you would, weirdly enough, 856 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,480 when you're just a participant. Automatically you'll get access 857 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,000 to different settings. You might get invited to a 858 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,680 dinner, you might be earlier. So you have more opportunities 859 00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:14,760 when no one else is there to talk to people about topics you 860 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,480 think are interesting. It's incredibly valuable to both 861 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,840 be a volunteer and both work in the same field as the conference 862 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,160 and the topics that are being organized because you can 863 00:42:23,240 --> 00:42:26,840 absolutely make use of that and is very valuable for your 864 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,880 network. So 100% if you have the 865 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,240 opportunity to do it, I'll be on the mainstage hosting and 866 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,800 talking to people, maybe host, doing some panel talks and I 867 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:37,880 love it. I get a lot of energy out of it. 868 00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,520 I usually say yes way too fast. It drains me. 869 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,280 Afterwards I'm done. I don't want to talk to anyone, 870 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:46,000 but in the moment and also day after, I'm incredibly happy that 871 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,240 I did it. So I will likely always say yes. 872 00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,520 How did the COVID digital transformation OK and the recent 873 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:56,280 AI revolution impact you personally? 874 00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,240 Did you embrace these changes right away or did you resist? 875 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,360 I don't think I'm quite resistant to change. 876 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:06,160 I feel like I want to learn and I want to apply and I want to 877 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:10,760 experiment to form an opinion. And in the end, my opinion can 878 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,320 be right or wrong. Still my opinion and my opinion 879 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,360 is malleable and it can change. But having an opinion, having a 880 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,400 stance when I talk to people actually helps the conversation 881 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:22,960 because they can see I'm in this corner or they can see this is 882 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:24,880 what I think. And if they think differently, 883 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:26,160 then we have a learning opportunity. 884 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,440 I'm not going to be like, I want to convince you about what I 885 00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,200 think. Who cares what I think in the 886 00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,080 end, or who cares if you think the same way? 887 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,840 I think that's boring. I want to understand why you 888 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,160 think this way because I think in this way and then there's a 889 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,600 learning opportunity. That's how I see things with 890 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,840 regards to change. Now with AI specifically, and 891 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,160 I've talked to this, I've, I've actually touched on this a long 892 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,080 time in the podcast. I've was a product manager for a 893 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,320 year and a half and on assignment and I felt like this 894 00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,680 whole AI wave and AI assisted tooling and what it's good at 895 00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:59,480 where it's applicable. I was just kind of a passenger. 896 00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,600 I was not even in the same car. I was seeing cars go by me when 897 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:07,000 it comes to AI and AI hype and AI learnings and I was only 898 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:08,680 reading and doing theoretical things. 899 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,240 I wasn't applying as much as I wanted to, so that's why I 900 00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:14,600 switched back to software engineering to learn. 901 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,960 I think that's the biggest value right now for me to learn what 902 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,280 is applicable, to have fun with tooling that's out there to form 903 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,800 an opinion on, see what it's valuable and potentially to have 904 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,000 opportunities for businesses, opportunities for clients, 905 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,560 opportunities just for learning and having fun to learn more 906 00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:35,720 about that. That's why I went back to 907 00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:38,120 software engineering. I'm having a lot of fun with it 908 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,160 and I think throughout that I'm open to change. 909 00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:44,280 It's hard to embrace change. People really theoretically say 910 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,480 you have to embrace change, but in essence, your behaviour will 911 00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,480 show what you actually do. And I like tooling. 912 00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,960 I also know that this is probably a pitfall or maybe a 913 00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:57,560 bad side of me is that when I've learned a tool, I really want to 914 00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,000 stick to that tool. I spend a lot of time mastering 915 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,680 something and then switching. I don't feel that's great about, 916 00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,720 to be honest. But then when I've switched, I'm 917 00:45:05,720 --> 00:45:08,360 having a lot of fun learning and exploring and indeed getting to 918 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,560 that same depth. It's kind of paradoxical in that 919 00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:15,120 I enjoy when I've switched, but I don't enjoy switching. 920 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,200 So someone has to be like I or something has to trigger me and 921 00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,040 be like, I have to try this thing out and I'm really 922 00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,760 enjoying it, but I won't do it if I don't have to because I 923 00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:27,000 don't like it, but I will like it when I have to. 924 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:28,800 Doesn't make any sense. That's just me. 925 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,400 Now, is there a career decision you've made that you regret? 926 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:37,800 Career decision that you've made that you regret? 927 00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:40,560 I think I touched on the regret part. 928 00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,600 I don't really have regrets. An easy answer would be like, I 929 00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:45,760 want to do what I did, but faster. 930 00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,640 Get here faster. Get here when I'm 25 instead of 931 00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:50,600 30. Start a podcast earlier. 932 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,480 Don't do operations, but go to software engineering 933 00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,040 immediately. I really value the experience 934 00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:59,200 that I've had, like learning about operations and then moving 935 00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,840 to software engineering. It made so much sense the way 936 00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,600 that I did it, but it's also because I've experienced it. 937 00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:08,920 I feel like if an outsider would look at my career experience and 938 00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,400 kind of the path that I've taken, they would be able to see 939 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,240 optimizations. But optimizing is not what I'm 940 00:46:15,240 --> 00:46:17,520 here for. I'm here for being effective. 941 00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:20,400 I feel like maybe effective in what I know now and what I can 942 00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,120 do now. And sure, I could have done 943 00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,080 things differently, but the outcome would have not been the 944 00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:27,480 same. So in essence, no regrets. 945 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,880 How can I go faster? Maybe I could have gone faster, 946 00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:32,440 maybe I could have made certain decisions faster. 947 00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,200 Maybe I should have looped in people instead of just trusting 948 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,160 other people and get gotten feedback. 949 00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:39,760 There's a lot of thoughts. In the end, what happened 950 00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,160 happened and I take that with me and I'm better in the future. 951 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,120 That's my mindset. How can someone be productive 952 00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,960 and stay focused on programming tasks when they are going 953 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,960 through immense grief? Now, the person that asked me 954 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,680 this question, I asked if they're OK and they didn't reply 955 00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,680 to me. I hope they are OK. 956 00:47:00,720 --> 00:47:02,560 I've only had one experience with this. 957 00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,640 It was kind of in COVID. I lost both my grandparents 958 00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:08,040 couple months back-to-back actually. 959 00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:14,440 Yeah, that happened. I I don't lose people close to 960 00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:16,360 me often. I have a big family. 961 00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,760 And even thinking about this, a big family comes with big 962 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:23,720 benefits, but it will also come with a lot of hardship when 963 00:47:23,720 --> 00:47:25,480 people go. And this was the moment for 964 00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,320 them. It's not even my grandparents, 965 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:28,880 it's just the grandparents that I grew up with. 966 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,800 It's actually my mom's grandparents, incredibly close 967 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:33,840 as a family. And at some point, they were 968 00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:35,720 just gone quite quickly, back-to-back. 969 00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:38,880 Very weird situation to be honest. 970 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,960 I needed time. I could not put my head down. 971 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,080 I needed time to process, to do my own thing, to be by myself, 972 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:50,680 to be with family, all of that. I took that. 973 00:47:51,240 --> 00:47:54,640 My company gave that to me. The assignment at the time also 974 00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,360 gave that to me. People are very helpful when it 975 00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:00,600 comes to these types of things. They are life impacting events. 976 00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,240 Don't be harsh on yourself. It's OK to drop things. 977 00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,320 Hopefully if it's not OK, still do what's best for you. 978 00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:13,480 You can't force yourself to do things and be in grief. 979 00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:16,560 You need time to process and everyone process differently. 980 00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:23,120 It's OK in the end, whatever happens, happens. 981 00:48:23,720 --> 00:48:29,560 You'll be OK in taking time and processing things and it's OK 982 00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,680 not to be effective in that certain situation. 983 00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,040 If you have a good team, other people will cover for you. 984 00:48:35,240 --> 00:48:37,280 If you have a good company, they'll understand. 985 00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,080 And hopefully, I mean, I've also been in leadership positions. 986 00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:42,720 I have said take as much time as you need. 987 00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:48,360 If there is a sense of urgency, then it will impact the grieving 988 00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:52,560 process and I want someone to grieve for as long as they need. 989 00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,320 You can still come back and be like, I'm, I'm, it's still 990 00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,240 there. When I shared this just now on 991 00:48:59,240 --> 00:49:02,840 camera, honestly, I'm so emotional and empathetic. 992 00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:08,320 It, it just hit me. And that's OK to round off 993 00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,240 because we did a lot of career questions. 994 00:49:11,240 --> 00:49:15,720 Actually, I have some podcast questions and I can go to these 995 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:18,680 quite fast, potentially rapid fire. 996 00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:21,440 OK, I'm going to see how long this is going to take. 997 00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:23,240 How do you decide who to bring on as a guest? 998 00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:27,040 I decide in a few ways. Well, I said rapid fire, so 999 00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,840 let's keep this short. I ask each guest who's the best 1000 00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:31,640 person you've worked with? Who do you think is a good fit 1001 00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:34,000 for the podcast? And recently, because I want to 1002 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,680 narrow down on engineering topics, who's the best engineer 1003 00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:39,040 you've worked with? That is the network of network 1004 00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:41,240 effects. I also scour LinkedIn. 1005 00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:44,200 I have a little script that goes through LinkedIn, specifically 1006 00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:47,080 people in Amsterdam, makes a list of people that are 1007 00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:50,520 interesting, pretty good script. And then I go through and I hit 1008 00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:52,760 them one after the other. I send messages. 1009 00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:54,440 This is why I think you're a good fit. 1010 00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:55,960 I actually know you know this person. 1011 00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,720 I've had them on the podcast. Here's an example that is more 1012 00:49:58,720 --> 00:50:01,120 the linked inside. And then honestly, there's 1013 00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:03,480 people that I've worked with or people that other people indeed 1014 00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,160 say they're great. I have a long, long list in my 1015 00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:07,720 head with people that I think are interesting. 1016 00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:11,960 There are rarely people that come to me through e-mail and 1017 00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:15,880 inbox or any social media platform that say I want to come 1018 00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,600 on the podcast that I actually think are a good fit because 1019 00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,160 then they're looking for something and they say they have 1020 00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:23,760 something to offer. But every person that comes and 1021 00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:27,320 that is in the US or not in NL, they've actually not seen the 1022 00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,840 podcast. And I just say it's in person 1023 00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:33,680 only, which it is. So I like people that do their 1024 00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,080 homework, that actually know what they're talking about that 1025 00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:38,320 don't you send this one message to everyone. 1026 00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:41,680 And I look for that. If there's only one flaw in that 1027 00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:44,840 message, and typically it's that they're not in an NL, which is 1028 00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,080 quite a big one, then you're not a good fit. 1029 00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:52,000 What is your secret to making people feel comfortable and open 1030 00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,800 up during an interview? I don't have any secrets. 1031 00:50:56,000 --> 00:51:00,000 I feel like I am who I am. I do my research, then I do a 30 1032 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,680 minute intro call and when we actually sit down in this 1033 00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:06,240 podcast recording, we've already chatted, we've already 1034 00:51:06,240 --> 00:51:10,360 interacted already in an online call, sometimes already in 1035 00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:14,560 person before the show. I feel like I'm open. 1036 00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:17,440 I feel like I'm curious. I feel like people love sharing 1037 00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:19,360 about their lives, sharing about something they're passionate 1038 00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:21,200 about. In essence, that is typically 1039 00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:24,160 the topic, something that gives someone energy, something that 1040 00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:26,280 they're passionate about. Who doesn't love sharing what 1041 00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:29,400 they're passionate about and that makes them feel 1042 00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:31,440 comfortable? I feel like I'm very chill. 1043 00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:34,640 I don't talk a lot. I don't take space. 1044 00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:36,960 I let people slowly come out of their shell. 1045 00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,360 It really helps that when we sit down, I tell them all the 1046 00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:43,680 cameras are recording already. And then I talk about something 1047 00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:45,960 that we have in common, vacation, travel, food to 1048 00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,800 Amsterdam, anything. Anything, honestly. 1049 00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:51,000 And then we move into the topics they're passionate about. 1050 00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:52,440 Sometimes they don't even notice. 1051 00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:55,240 And the feedback has been, wow, it's already finished. 1052 00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:59,000 I'm like, yeah, we've been talking about an hour, actually. 1053 00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:01,840 Oh, man, I felt like 20 minutes felt like 30 minutes. 1054 00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:03,440 Like time flies when you're having fun. 1055 00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:06,400 That is amazing feedback. That's how I do it. 1056 00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,360 There's no secret. Has doing the podcast changed 1057 00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:11,560 the way you communicate in your personal life? 1058 00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:13,960 Yes. I am a way, way better 1059 00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:18,960 communicator after I've done the podcast for the last close to 1060 00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:24,040 five years than five years ago. It both has to do with me 1061 00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:29,640 editing my own episodes, really focusing on filler words, tempo, 1062 00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:34,800 pauses, melody, what else. Is there anything with regards 1063 00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:36,920 to the way I speak? If I didn't like it, I would try 1064 00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:39,960 and actively change it. And you do that continuously and 1065 00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,120 at some point you've changed the way you speak. 1066 00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:46,440 People think that the way they speak is who they are, and I 1067 00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:49,600 feel like you can change that. You change the way you speak and 1068 00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:52,200 still stay the same person. You can articulate better. 1069 00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:56,600 Just try, actually try to change the way you speak. 1070 00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:01,520 What really helped for me was when I wanted to do an UMM, I 1071 00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,840 just slow down. I'd speak slower, articulate 1072 00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:08,520 better, do it extra, act like you're in a theatre, 1073 00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:11,000 continuously articulate more and more. 1074 00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:13,120 And at some point it's very natural. 1075 00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,440 It's easier. You don't lose your accent. 1076 00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:17,960 I don't know what accent I have. I used to have a British accent 1077 00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:20,960 because I used to work with a person from London and I still, 1078 00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,520 when I hang out with him, he comes out worthy enough. 1079 00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:27,840 Maybe I mimic, but in essence, I've become a better 1080 00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:31,120 communicator and that has given me a lot of opportunities and 1081 00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:35,120 I'm very thankful for that. Big benefit, big, big benefit. 1082 00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:39,480 Now, last question, how do you handle guests who give really 1083 00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:43,200 short answers or seem guarded? How do I handle them? 1084 00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,600 I typically do a lot of research, to be honest, before I 1085 00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:50,240 actually invite a person to an intro call. 1086 00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:53,840 And that is all because I see this funnel of a lot of guests 1087 00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:56,280 on this side and only the people that make it to the episodes or 1088 00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:57,800 even returning episodes on this side. 1089 00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:01,680 And the funnel goes like this. And throughout that process 1090 00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:04,440 before they actually do an episode, I don't want to say 1091 00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:06,040 sorry, you're not a good fit. Sorry. 1092 00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:08,680 I don't think the way we communicate is good for a 1093 00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:12,080 listening experience. I feel like because people take 1094 00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:15,000 the way they communicate and it's quite personal sometimes 1095 00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:17,160 they identify the way they speak with who they are. 1096 00:54:18,240 --> 00:54:21,200 I'm basically critiquing who they are and I don't feel like I 1097 00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:23,720 am doing that. But yeah, it takes 2 to tango. 1098 00:54:23,720 --> 00:54:27,160 There's receiving and sending. If I feel like I'm not sending 1099 00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:30,280 anything harmful, someone can still interpret it as incredibly 1100 00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:31,800 harmful. I don't want that. 1101 00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:34,800 I do my best to avoid that. So the people that I already 1102 00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:39,120 filtered down to an intro call, I do a lot of research to make 1103 00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:42,120 sure that the intro call also follows through in an actual 1104 00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:44,600 recording of the episode and a great conversation. 1105 00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:48,120 Now if even in the intro I noticed that someone is guarded 1106 00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:50,760 or I genuinely am not interested in the topics or I feel like 1107 00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:53,160 they're trying to sell something, then, and I'm not 1108 00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:55,160 proud of this, I've ghosted people. 1109 00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:57,600 I'm trying to do better. It's not something I'm proud of. 1110 00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:00,960 So I am trying to give their feedback in a way that is not 1111 00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,800 going to make them hate me. And in essence, I am going to 1112 00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:07,120 make mistakes, but I'm not proud of the whole ghosting thing. 1113 00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:09,640 So I'm trying to give more feedback and saying the topic is 1114 00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:12,720 not a good fit or actually figuring it out a way not to 1115 00:55:12,720 --> 00:55:14,920 hurt their feelings. But still saying I don't think 1116 00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:17,080 the way you communicate is good for a podcast. 1117 00:55:17,720 --> 00:55:20,960 I don't think there's anything wrong with that and I hope it 1118 00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:23,920 doesn't hurt people's feelings when they're guarded or they 1119 00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:27,520 give short answers. Typically it never happens then 1120 00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:29,760 actually in the recording because I already filtered them 1121 00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:33,360 out in the intro and people get really comfortable. 1122 00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:35,960 This it's, it's so nice to have a studio space. 1123 00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:38,000 It's quiet. Put these headphones on, their 1124 00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:41,400 noise cancelling. We just have a conversation and 1125 00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:43,040 that's it. If they're short in answering, 1126 00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:45,120 I'll talk. It's no problem. 1127 00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:48,200 I also mentioned to them, I like it when people say it's a 1128 00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:49,720 conversation rather than an interview. 1129 00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:52,480 So feel free to ask me a question because typically the 1130 00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:55,600 people that are short with regards to answering, they might 1131 00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:58,720 not like to talk, but like me, they might like to ask a 1132 00:55:58,720 --> 00:56:01,320 question. And then those make for really 1133 00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:04,040 good and fun conversations when we just bounce off of each 1134 00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:08,520 other's energy like that. Yeah, it's fun podcasting. 1135 00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:12,600 You should try it out. All right, this might be the 1136 00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:14,840 longest Q&A, honestly, that I've done. 1137 00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:18,040 Big, big career component leadership components. 1138 00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:20,640 I really enjoyed it. I must say. 1139 00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:23,160 If you have more questions, put them down in the comments 1140 00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:25,560 section. Otherwise, there will always be 1141 00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:27,200 a post on the YouTube community page. 1142 00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:30,520 I make a post on LinkedIn and Twitter or people send their 1143 00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,000 questions to me personally when they know it's actually time and 1144 00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:36,480 I'll sometimes remind people. So wherever you want to send me 1145 00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:38,320 your questions, feel free to do so. 1146 00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:40,760 I really enjoy doing these. Thank you for listening. 1147 00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:44,000 There's a new thing in YouTube where if you want to support 1148 00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,040 small creators, you can hype an episode. 1149 00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:48,840 It's not just the like, it's like a super like you only get 3 1150 00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:50,280 a week. You can actually hype the same 1151 00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:53,600 video three times. And I've seen that that really 1152 00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:55,920 helps the channel. So if you like the channel, if 1153 00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:59,400 you think the content is great, if you think there are actually 1154 00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:02,080 more people that need to see these tyes of episodes, hype the 1155 00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:05,160 episode as well, and otherwise I'll see you in the next one.