Alright, welcome back. Q&A number 3 a.m. a number one.
I've renamed it. What's the difference between a
met and a Q&A? No one cares.
It's all the same. So what's in the name is in the
name. But welcome back Q.
Am a doesn't really matter. We got to do this again because
I have a blast with it and you people keep sending your
questions so keep doing that. So I can do these because I'm
having a lot of fun with them. Now, episode will be edited.
Edited just to make it a little bit more smooth, you know, the
drill. If you've seen the previous
ones, if this is your first time, welcome this is episode
101. We've been doing this for a
while. Sit down, get comfy.
I'll do the same and let's get started.
If you could start your career over, what would you focus on
and what would you do differently now?
I like that question because I might not have an answer that
you expect because I don't know what I would do differently.
I I like the flow of my career, how I ended up here.
Starting off, really broad, not knowing what I wanted to do.
I can say, like, I might have started out in software
development which I did not, but throughout operations, actually
learned. A lot of the operational side,
like, you tend to do, which has helped me as a developer in kind
of big picture thinking. Because I feel like when you
start out, as a software engineer, you're a person that
executes, right? You create your software works,
and that's usually it. And then, as you move, Into more
senior positions or as you get more experienced you tend to use
that tool of like execution more versatile and actually when it's
most apt I think that's the biggest skill that people
underestimate is that you can solve a lot of problems.
Yes but if the problems don't need to be solved and don't
solve them right? If your piece of software runs
and it solves a problem then it's good, then it adds value
but if your piece of software just adds to the complexity and
it doesn't actually solve the problem.
Then what are you doing? You're just delivering something
that no one is going to use at the end of the day.
So what I tend to do was, when a new feature would come up and it
would be a difficult one, so it might be my personal bias, but I
would ask like, why are we doing this, right?
How many uses is going to impact?
Because I might not have wanted to do that.
I'll just leave it at that, but also it needs to have an impact
for users, right? If it's, if we have a platform
for hundreds of thousands of users, and this is only a small
slice, then it needed really needs to be With it, compared to
the other things. We can also do because there's
always there's always going to be work.
There's always going to be a lot to do.
So you have to prioritize them, pick what adds the most value?
And I think having those conversations because you are
the person that creates you can have those conversations with
the people that do the big picture thinking and that are
more so responsible for priorities and that dialogue is
the most valuable part. So if you can't have that
dialogue, then the team might not be for you or the
organization might not be for you because then you're just an
executioner, right? People that just execute.
I feel like it shouldn't be just programmers.
We do a lot of thinking work programming is not just typing
on a keyboard. It's a lot of thinking, which
also ties into the big picture thinking of things.
So you need to have those discussions and there's where
your value is, as well. So, did I answer the question?
That's always what. I wonder when I go on one of
these rants. What would I do differently?
I would start the podcast, probably earlier, just because
I'm having so much fun with this.
I feel like it has a lot of benefits in my or has had a lot
of benefits in my career because I started this in meeting new
people and getting more comfortable in public speaking
in just thinking out loud of certain topics.
And and having those authentic conversations also allows Me to
reflect on what I actually think sometimes you, you think, you
know what you think? And then you have a conversation
in like oh this is what I actually think.
When someone asks you a smart question, you're like, okay,
this these are my thoughts, maybe that's just me.
But yeah, I think starting the podcast earlier is something I
would change just because it was that much more fun.
Now, how it would kind of look like in its infancy even earlier
in my career, I don't know if I would have the authority to
have. Conversations very much earning
career. But I don't think it matters,
right? Because the conversations in and
of themselves, The Curiosity in there, that's where the value
is. Right?
And your seniority level doesn't really matter.
I don't see myself as a senior senior person, I don't think I
will ever so maybe when I'm like 60.
But I don't think it matters when it comes to podcast
Creation in that aspect so yeah, that might be the one thing I
would change. Otherwise, I'm pretty happy
where I ended up. But yeah, I usually that's like
my philosophy in life. What I change something, not
really. I like the outcome and otherwise
I'm in control, right? So I can change the outcome as
well. How valuable did you find having
the podcast as an engineer in terms of personal development
and giving back to the community?
So let's start with personal development.
There's a few things that because of this, I've gotten
better at, and one of them is public speaking, just by virtue
of having these conversations. While having a camera on you, I
feel like I've gotten off Trinity's to host events.
I've gotten opportunities to speak at some stuff, which I'm
really excited because that's going to be the future.
I've stood on stage, probably the first time late last year
and it's all because I've gotten more comfortable in speaking.
And I didn't used to be like that, especially in high school
or uni over to be like, oh, we need to give a presentation.
I'll just put in an extra hour or more.
So several hours. So I don't have to do that.
So someone else in my team. Would have to do that.
If it would be me, I would just really look at that dauntingly
because I did not like standing in front of a class standing in
front of teachers and speaking publicly, how small that is in
my mind it was really really big and I don't know why.
I just never was comfortable in it which probably makes sense
because if you don't do it you're not comfortable and then
you don't want to do it because you're not comfortable.
So this allowed me to actually cultivate that skill of public
speaking. And do so, and take baby steps
and get better at that, which is the first one.
I think, the, first and foremost one that I've gotten real good
at otherwise, it's probably big picture thinking, because having
these conversations, I mean, the benefit of it is genuine
curiosity, right? I can really ask questions of
what Pops in my mind because I'm interested in that.
And I'm wondering what someone's perspective is.
And I can learn from that and hopefully the listeners as well,
but I'm learning as well, right? Because these Asians are not
rehearsed otherwise they would never work.
So, whatever pops in my mind and whatever someone's speciality
is, or what the topic of conversation is, that's what we
talked about and it gives me a perspective because I've gotten
this feedback as well. Some of the episodes are like a
coaching session, because I'm like, okay, this is what's going
on in my day to day in my work life.
What do you think about this when it comes to team size?
Or I'm Anna a project with a bigger team right now and I feel
the pain points and I've been in smaller team so I'm like okay
how Fix this or what are your thoughts or is this always like
the case or is it just like my unique circumstances?
But those are like coaching sessions.
So it's really big picture, thinking, that I've gotten
throughout that, I love talking about organizational culture and
stuff like that why things happen.
They think the whoa, why things happen the way they do, or why
people do the things. They do, write that Behavioral
Science that's behind that or that's backing that I feel like
that interests me. And it might be a Kind of
current point in time. But the benefit of it is, I can
just go to wherever my curiosity drives me and learn from that.
I don't know if I would classify that as big picture thinking,
but I do feel like that Learning Journey has led me to think
about things differently from a bigger sense, maybe
organizationally. So, that's the second one.
And then is there. Another one is just meeting a
lot of really cool people, really enthusiastic people.
I've learned that too. Community is not as it's really
big but it's still smaller than I thought.
It would be like, people know each other and I've heard
several people refer to several other people.
Maybe it's the network of the space that I'm in.
But I think that's just really awesome building those
relationships. I'm horrible at building
relationships and maintaining them because I mean sounds kind
of douchey, I feel like but I just do not spend the time and
energy and continuously do so like, you know, when I Leaves.
And they're like, aw, let's stay in touch, I say that.
But that I also say, like, if you really want to stay in
touch, I need help because I'm horrible, that I don't know what
it is. I just I need to spend more time
and energy on that and maybe it's not a priority.
I don't know where it comes from, but I'm really bad at
that. So then when those people put in
the extra effort than we maintain those relationships but
otherwise I'm horrible at it and this podcast is for me.
Like an how do you say that? Like a relationship Builder?
I feel like and we do. Stay in touch.
Touch. And I do see messages here and
there and we keep having conversations with the people
that have had on which is really, really enjoyable getting
better at speaking. Like no arms simple pauses
allowing for like a train of thought.
I think I've gotten better at that as well, you know, when
those people or you have a few people around you that just fill
up the science with an arm and they go on and they're like
actually or like and man, like I've read isn't to myself so
many times because Edited the podcasts.
So many times that I'm like, stop doing this.
I would tell myself on camera stop doing this or not on camera
and Screen which is yeah and it's hopefully, he's gone.
Now, it still pops up and when it does, I noticed it but I've
gotten that I've gotten better at speaking.
So the second part of that question, when it comes to the
community I feel like it's hard for me to say because I feel
like the conversations that we have.
Hopefully they are valuable and just by virtue of people joining
In watching the videos or listening, I hope they are of
value. But I only know when people give
me the feedback and the feedback is great, don't get me wrong,
but I don't know how much of an impact it is actually making.
It's kind of hard to quantify that in metrics right because I
can see it in the metrics but then what is the actual outcome,
right? Because metrics are just output
that's a based on a recent conversation.
Yeah but I don't know like A lot of people have told me when I
reach out to some guests, they tell me they know about the
podcast so they've seen it. But what the impact actually is,
I don't know. There are some comments in
there. Have been comments that said,
listen, I'm a new ID say that I'm starting out.
I'm going to UNI or I'm I've started my Learning Journey with
regards to software development or I'm switching careers and I'm
learning a lot about all of these things.
Or even I'm listening to you and practicing my English because
it's not my native language. Courage and I'm in the tech
field, those are all comments and feedback.
I've gotten and I love that like that, that just makes my day
when I see that. So, you know, with regards to
that, yeah, I hope we're giving back a piece of the, to the
community. Right?
Because I feel like a lot of people take, not a lot of people
give back point was always the share knowledge.
Yeah, I'll just leave it off with that giving back to the
community. Hopefully so if so let me know
in the comments below. I'm going to bundle these
questions. One is congrats with episode
100. What's next to the podcast?
And then also what is the end goal?
Now when it comes to what's next for the podcast because so 100
was always kind of a major Milestone.
And episode 1000 is like unreachable territory.
I don't really have goals for the podcast, like I can kind of
stare on on metrics. I feel like or vanity metrics
more active listeners, more viewers.
More subscribers stuff like that.
But what I really want is for this podcast, I have impact in
the people's lives, right? And the only way we can do that
is by improving the quality of the show.
Now I have no clue how to do that because I feel like
hopefully the quality of the conversations are already high.
I hope they are. I think they are, but it's not
my opinion to judge - just one. So then what we can, what can we
do better? I don't know if you have an
idea, let me know, but I One of the more I love doing the
conversations, everything around it, sometimes is a bit more.
I did say that I get less enthusiastic about the
conversations, is where the gold is, that's where I love doing
what I'm doing. So I want to do more of that.
Now, when it comes to the end goal, someone told me this, like
they said, because I posted this on LinkedIn.
Episode 100 was not just episode 100, it's also a streak.
We've done 100 episodes week-to-week.
Back to Back with never a break in there and that was always one
of my requirements. If we're going to do this, we're
going to be consistent and a really proud to say we've done
that. Subsequently continuously for a
hundred episodes. Now, one of my colleagues are
old colleagues, who we still keep in touch with?
He said I'm really proud of you and it shows that you really a
marathon runner, right? This is not a Sprint.
So with that, in mind, when it comes to the end goal, I have no
clue but we're just going to keep running this Marathon for
as long as I can. It and for, as long as I'm
having fun with it and so far, I don't see an end in sight and
goal world domination. Joe Rogan podcast, level of
exposure and audience and impact that will be awesome.
But yeah, that feels really, really unreachable.
So I would love to take this podcast broader and I don't know
if I can do it under the umbrella that it is now like
Beyond coding and sponsored by the company that I work for.
Work sepia. But yeah, there's a lot of
personal interests that I would love to discuss on the podcast
as well, but I feel like that is a different format for maybe
even a different audience so maybe in the future would be
really cool though. Patrick, I'll kill podcast Pap.
The Patrick. You experience.
Be a magical experience. Jamie better.
Watch his back. I'm coming for his neck because
I already have my Jamie. It's, it's roll out.
Its Valve. It's man has many names but it's
a roll Ralph. What are you a native English
speaker? No, no I am not.
No, my parents both come from Turkey, which means I am
Turkish. Basically they never raised me
bilingually. So I was raised first and
foremost, first, and foremost with touch.
Now, I could not speak to my relatives were living in turkey,
and I played a lot of video games.
I watched a lot of cartoons. Un's in English with Dutch
subtitles and video games and cartoons with English voice.
I'd say this cartoons with cartoons that are English,
dubbed with Dutch sobs, just taught me English really, really
fast at a very early young age because if I were get stuck at a
video game, I would just get pissed off.
Ask my parents, what does it say?
What does it mean here? Because I couldn't read the
English. I could be Dutch but they will
translate it to me. No, just keep playing my video
games and in my you had it all made sense.
So then also, when I would speak to relatives, it will be in
English on in Turkish and then we'll get feedback.
Like why is your kid speaking in English and not Turkish, like
what happened here? Why does he not speak Turkish?
And I didn't really care. I loved English.
I didn't really like Dutch that much because I felt like, really
weirdly at a specifically. The young age.
I felt like the medium in English was better than when it
was dubbed in Dutch. Just because I was probably
exposed to that really, really early on.
So I would always watch stuff the content in its native
language. Now that might also tie into why
I love anime and specifically in Japanese.
But that's a that's a different topic, different conversation.
Now that's probably why I picked up English at a very young age
and the way my actual probably Voice or the accent got better,
because it was probably kind of Dutch English very early on.
Is I worked with a guy that originally came from London.
Now, in working with the sky, was about a year.
I picked up a lot of his accent subconsciously.
Like I have no clue, but I was very British after that one year
and yeah, I got feedback specifically about that.
They were like why are you thinking this accent?
I'm like I'm not doing this on purpose and now it's more to
what it is now. So will it change in the future?
I hope not. But it might be, it might
change. So, yeah, that's that's probably
why the English is as good as it is.
I don't think it's perfect. I make a lot of mistakes
especially when I'm tired. Or if you seen previous
episodes, I just fumble some words.
So yeah, that's it. Like I'm still work life
balance. How much do you work remote?
And how much do you go to the office?
Now, this varies on a week-to-week basis, but I
basically have one day where I go back to the office,
specifically, because I'm a consultant, and I work for a
client and I think it's good to have those relationships.
And ships in person. So every Wednesday, I go to
their office, basically not my own.
Now, the office that I'm in now is the Xavier officer in
hilversum and I only go here when I need to when I have
important conversations that I want to be here in person that's
my judgment call or when I have to record the podcast because I
want to record the podcasts in person not calling in and
dialing from home. So those are the only times I
come into the office now, when it comes to work life, balance
and more, so remote working. I last year worked for a month
in Barcelona because I could and I wanted to experience what it's
like to work abroad. And I can tell you short answer,
very addicting, a lot of fun different cultures, I had to
figure out that the super markets were closed on Sunday,
so then have food on Sunday. It was colder than I expected.
So I had to wear all my clothes that I brought because I was
like, Barcelona is going to be summer.
Well, it was April and it was still very, very cold.
Now, lots of learnings there but the work part actually went
really, really well better than I expected.
Which was, I'm really happy about that.
I could really just focus. I took some days off obviously,
to, to figure out, not figure out.
I took some days off, obviously, to also explore the city because
I had never been to Barcelona and that aspect and I still
wanted to experience the city to its fullest but every time I
stepped or put my laptop away when outside I wouldn't say I
was on vacation but I was exploring a new city which might
be also what you do in vacation basically.
And that experience was awesome. Now this year because I said it
was addicting, I'm going to do that again.
All of them a I'll be in Portugal specifically in Lagos.
I've never been to Portugal. Never been to logos recently,
found out there's a time difference with regards to the
Netherlands. I probably should have known
that but it's like a - 1 hour so we should be fine.
But yeah I'm going to work from there.
Completely remotely. Not going to the office then for
the hole. Month and experience the city as
well as what it is, working abroad again and I'm thinking of
going back to Barcelona in September, but we still have to
figure that out. I feel like if you have the
opportunity, it might not present itself to you.
Sometimes you have to create the opportunity.
No one told me. Hey, Patrick, if you want to do
this, you can do this. I was like, I want to do this.
Can we do this? How do we do this?
And I made it happen. I feel like, with regards to a
lot of things that you want in life.
If you have to do it or you have to create the opportunity as
well. So, funny, little tidbit
whenever I talk to colleagues that were like, what is the
policy for that? And I'm like, there is no policy
make it happen. If you want it.
Go do it. That's it.
If you couldn't do the podcast anymore, due to circumstances,
I'm just assuming, what would you do instead now?
I like this question, because I really like the podcast if that
were to disappear, there's going to be a big hole that I feel
like needs to be filled with some kind of creativity
content-related wise. I've been recently thinking or
not, so recently, about starting my own YouTube channel about
vlogging about food, about my life.
Maybe even in the tech space, Maybe not maybe more.
So no, but I feel like that urge would get bigger if I couldn't
do the podcast anymore. So I would probably pick that up
for people that do not know. I am involved in a second
YouTube channel as well with my girlfriend, it's workout video
related and I edit all those videos.
So that's the second Channel already.
So I feel like YouTube is already something that is in my
life. It's kind of intertwined.
And if the pockets were to disappear, I would probably buy
a camera start vlogging. So, I really, really hating the
The early videos but then incrementally improve, but them
out there and hopefully very hopefully add some value in
there for people to, to view entertainment wise content,
wise, something like that. I would love to do Food review
videos go to restaurants, be like, aw, I love this food.
I would have to improve on my food vocabulary, but that's a
distant distant dream or obviously, like, travel videos.
Travel Vlog videos travel to a hotel.
We have the hotel paid for because of YouTube money and
exposure and then talk about the hotel in the experience like
that very very distant dream, but that would be really cool.
Maybe that's a, that's an answer to a different question.
How does a new software engineer make themselves valuable as an
employee in this era of AI and machine learning at this,
probably was related to the episode that we did on chat gbt
or just because chatty beauty is everywhere is probably related
to that, right? And as a new software engineer,
I can see that this tool really looks like it's going to steal
your job. Now, I don't think that's going
to happen. I feel like the jobs or the work
that you're going to do is going to evolve.
I think we touched on that in the episode as well.
I feel like it's going to involve and what is going to be
more important is aptly using this tool because I don't think
it's going to be in a stage where it can replace.
It still needs human judgment, it's evolving and scarily fast.
So it might be. But what I think now, for new
software Engineers is really try to figure out how to best use
this tool as a leverage to gain the knowledge yourself, how to
be effective and productive, With it, still trying to
understand why it's doing the things that it's doing.
But it's helping you with the how, right?
Because if you have to build a new feature, you have to store
data, you have to expose an API. You have to build something
visual you really focus on? Okay, how am I going to get this
done? If it's a really complex visual
design, your like how are we going to do this?
All right, what do I need? What libraries, what packages,
how do I structure this? How does this even work?
All right, and as you do that more and more, As you go more
and more in-depth as you talk to more team members as you refine
it more, you figure out how to do it.
Same for the back end stuff. You have to figure out how to do
a specific API. Maybe you're going to do graphql
and you've always been doing rest, you have to figure out
things how to do it, how to do it from the first.
How do you say it? How do you how to do it the
first time basically? And even the second time because
we Google everything and even the third time sometimes and
even more. So sometimes like if I need to
use reg ex probably used it 50 times, still don't know how to
do it. And I will always always Google
that or chat upt that now. But some frustration with reg,
ex, I guess, where was I, you will always try and figure out
how to do it. Now, this to can really help you
because you ask it a question. How do I do X?
Y, and Z and is going to give you one of the possibilities.
And that's a very important one because it's going to give you
one of the options. There is always multiple.
And that's where you come in. You have to judge the option
based on your context or give it more context and get more
options. And at some point you're gonna
have to decide and you are going to be the one that learns from
it. Is this the right option.
What can we do differently? I saw a different options.
How would that impact it, right? And it's going to help you with
the how, which means it's going to make you more productive.
Now, what you need to do probably is still figure out.
What are we doing in the first place, right?
Really. Understanding the application
that you're building the impact that it's going to have on
customers user experience. If you put a feature out there
and no one can find it, it is not a good feature.
Basically, so really understand the thing that you're building
the domain of it, and then why we're doing it in the first
place. What impact does it have?
What does it add to the people features to the customers or the
users? That is where you come in, as
well, the whole context of the operation and I feel Like with
seniority, youth more and more think of that, just by virtue of
your sphere of influence, kind of growing in more.
So, senior leadership positions, it doesn't have to be, you can
still be really, really good at how.
But usually you leverage that in those conversations and talk
about the w and y basically. And I feel like with new
software Engineers with the up-and-coming technology that Ai
and machine learning provides, it's going to more so navigate.
It's going to more so Trend towards the wall and why faster,
right? Because you get less time to
figure out how to do things, you have more tools to help you with
the how, so that natural trend of thinking about the what, and
why, it's just going to be accelerated still.
That is my belief and it might be wrong.
I have no clue, but I feel like that is the trend.
If the AI productivity tools, get to a point where they can do
a lot more, they can consent. Contextualize the what in the,
why not? Just give perfect answers.
Then you roll will still change and evolve so I don't think we
should be afraid. I think we should embrace right
because it's going to make you a better software engineer by the
end of the day not by by the end of the day but at the end of the
day so learn from it use it as a tool in your toolbox.
I feel like And leverage it when it comes to your own knowledge.
When it comes to software engineering and building a
product, what is the one thing? You'll never actually want to
do. This is an interesting one
because I feel like when a team is not operating as smoothly, I
tend to fit in those gaps, like if it's a specific process that
I feel, I can be improved if it's a certain communication
that needs to happen between team members in alignment, if we
need clarity To build a certain feature, if things are not
cleared up or people yeah, whatever that might be.
I feel like I've jumped in and I've tried to fix it, which is
me filling in the gaps. Now, when it comes to the whole
process, what I would never actually want to do is more.
So the visual design of things if you like it requires a
certain sense of creativity. And also experience obviously
I've done front end development so that was as much Much, how do
you say that? I've done front end development.
So I have experienced more so building visual things but
thinking of how the visuals are going to look The Branding, the
look and feel even the user experience to some degree
because I love thinking about user experience, but figuring
out the strategy of why things are the way they are and having
it makes sense. And really leveraging the theory
behind it, I feel like that's a, it is a different job and it is
a different skill that I might still be able to do Or want to
do. But the visual aspect is just
really, really hard. What typography the brand look
and feel even the colors. You might not know this, but I'm
partially color blind. So like red green for me.
Sometimes it's just, it's all the same.
That's really hard with bouldering because we have a lot
of colors. I'm like, can I use this?
Can I use that? And I feel like maybe a cop-out,
but the visual side of things. Also, by virtue of being
partially, colorblind is going to be really, really difficult.
So if I would have an option, I would never ever I ever want to
do that part. Also, I worked with 3D really
great people. Hopefully, I could be able to
bring those in for some guidance if I actually have to do that
but I don't think I ever will who are what has inspired me
most throughout my career. I think this has changed and it
is Ever Changing because I appreciate a lot of the people
that have given me guidance and have really taken the time to
spend extra time with me. Write the Time and effort and
energy and attention that I would want because I would pull
it from them. Exactly.
After them to give it as a different thing, right
throughout your journey. And I feel like throughout my
career as well, you will always see people that you look up to,
at least, that's how I put it to words.
People that are really good at the thing.
I also want to be really good at and when it was operations,
there was this one guy that would just get everything done.
That would leverage whatever he had move parts of the
organization, think of about it strategically build those
relationships. And I was like, if I'm going to
be doing this for the Long Haul, I really really want those
skills. I want to be like that guy doing
the things that he's doing. So I really tried to work as
much as possible with that person.
The same when it comes to software engineering, I looked
up to a lot of people early on and still and I tell them, this
is why I want to work together with you.
This is what I hope to learn from you and People really get
awkward. Maybe maybe I shouldn't do that
but that's why I think it's really hard to pick one.
It depends on the stage of my career but every stage has had
people that have inspired me and I have allowed me to grow and I
feel like also at some point I grew so much that I was like
okay with these people I feel equals might not be the right
word, but I feel like I've learned Learned what I wanted to
learn here, right? I'm not at their level, I'm
comfortable at the level where I am at and my goals change and I
want to do something else and that might or might not require
me to work with other people. So that's why it's always kind
of shifted when it comes to the people that have inspired me.
The most, it's always change throughout my career.
Like, I just appreciate the most probably the people that were,
at the very, very earliest stage in my career.
So, Was then in operations where the enough.
Because that's really when I started working coming out of
uni, going into a team, having no clue, man, people in the tech
space, love, acronyms like three letter words for everything.
I will have a huge sheet with all the translations because I
was like someone says PS 80s, am a Q&A all those things kind of
figure it out some of those know and especially in Tech all of
those. Those can mean different things.
If it's a Q&A, it might be a quality insurance, not a
question and answer. But, yeah, you have to figure
that out for yourself. So I would write down all of
those things, learn through that and people would be like, I
actually think that might have been an advice from someone.
Write that all the acronyms because we got a lot, but just
those little tidbits, that was one person in specific but over
to Young in operations. And it's hard to pick the most
but if I had to pick one that might be it just because it was
that earliest of early experiences when it came to kind
of coaching and mentorship and we stayed at the office so many
times to really really late like I would leave at the office
seven or eight or we would order food and keep talking about
either work or more personal stuff for a whole year.
And then even more because I changed positions within the
organization I was no longer with him in his team and then
still I would go to him and talk about my side of things and he
would relate and reflect and talk about the strategics behind
the organization or why things are happening or why people do
the things they do, which really helped me.
I feel like early on and has always helped me later on this
mindset of you can do anything. You put your mind to, you can
move the organization. You can leverage.
It's not bad to escalate Fight for what you think is, right?
I feel like that drive was always in there, but it's kind
of been fueled this Flame by having those conversations with
him in specific. That's not to take away from the
people that have always guided me throughout my software
engineering path. But that was just the earliest
of early experiences. So maybe it's the Nostalgia, how
would your 10 year old self React to what you do now?
React to what I do. Now this belief this belief
talking to people being on camera being comfortable with
that speaking. So I feel eloquently and
fluently, it would probably be disbelief because I always
especially early on looked up to adults.
I was like they got their stuff together.
I did say stuff as that shit. Probably they got their shit
together and I feel like I never got it.
I feel like sometimes still, I don't have my shit together, I
think that's fine. And I've learned to accept it.
And probably the biggest disbelief was when I went from,
you need to kind of the work environment.
I was like, people don't know. Some people don't know what
they're doing and they're doing things day in day out.
The same thing over and over again, so especially when I was
10 as I man, I ask an adult, they know it, I don't know how,
but they know it or they'll give me some old people wisdom and I
thought people were in 30 or old man I'm getting old but it would
be really disbelief because I think especially then,
especially at a young age standing in front of the class
was a big. No, no no.
Would you want to play video games?
I thought it was going to be a video game developer create
video games. I would still love to do that.
But yeah. Thank you, will be disbelief.
What do I remember? Most about my first job.
Now I'm going to take this as to not say the operations job
because that's coming out of uni, but I had one job I had to
you jobs in uni and then when I was 16, I had my first job which
was still the job I had in uni, it was hmm.
How do I explain this was like a waiter.
I did everything that everything I cooked, I cleaned I brought
people their food. I was at working at a fish and
chips restaurant in fallen down For people that don't know the
Netherlands. Following them is like, on the
shore Parts, very touristy. So we would have buses with
different cultures coming in at the same time and we would go
from 0 to 100 when it comes to making food, and giving food,
and letting people pay and stuff like that.
And I would take orders, I would do the dishes, I would plate the
food. I would cook the food sometimes
because I was not the main chef and I would bring the people
their food, I would take away dirty dishes, like it was a lot
of, a lot of hard work. And it's because I never wanted
to work at a supermarket and stock shelves and do all that
stuff. I thought that was boring.
I still think it's boring but if you have one of those Yelps,
keep we need you. But yeah, fuck off.
I'm sorry at all. I'm sorry.
No no this is not given man. The people from the final
supermarkets will not forget the people from the supermarket.
We need you. But it was not gonna be me.
That was that was my main takeaway.
So yeah, my mom said you're gonna work soon as you turn 60,
16 is good experience. You're going to find yourself a
job. So I had an interview at artist
which is the zoo in Amsterdam, where my dad used to work as a
security guard, got fired in covid but different story.
Stay on the track, all right? Yeah, I was there, I was 16.
The Second youngest was like 19. So when I realized that, I'm
like, what am I doing here? Now, we're going to get this
job. So then I had to wait in the, we
had a whole tour and then I had to wait in like a waiting room
with all of the people that wanted this job.
It's like working at a souvenir shop and taking pictures for
people and I was dead last. I could not believe it.
And then when I came in the people really want me to
roleplay, how I would take a school of kids and take a
picture of them and they would play the kids and they acted
like kids who don't listen to adults.
It was really, really weird. So needless to say, I did not
get that job now have a lot of siblings and I would pick up one
of my siblings from school and my mom used to always say this
on my siblings friend was ha, how do I say this in English?
One of my siblings friend, their parents are also the men, also
the friend. One of our neighbors and one of
those Neighbors. My neighbor basically my
neighborhood but this is a really, really hard.
Apparently, my neighbor owned the Fish and Chips shop.
So connected with him connected with his girlfriend.
I'm interested in this job. My mom basically connected with
the girlfriend and said, my son is looking for a job.
She said, one of our main guys is sick, can you go now?
And I was like, no interview. I just picked up one of my
siblings or a Actually brought them to school because this was
morning. Can I go now?
I didn't eat anything that day. I looked horrible because I mean
I was off and I had to bring my siblings to school so you know,
they start at like 8:30 or 9:00. So yeah, I just dressed up.
I don't know if I would take a shower but details and I said
yes I was like yeah I can start no problem, I didn't eat.
So then we went there I have no clue what to do.
She was like, okay we're going to do this, we're going to
prepare all the food because if you don't know if you work at a
Restaurant. I mean, it's hard to call this a
strong but we could see it like, 60 people whole even more.
If you can see 60 people, and they come in at the same time,
your preparation is kind of make or break.
So we were really busy in the morning with all the
preparation. I was washing everything to make
sure everything was clean. People came in, there was like
OK, these are the menus, this is how you play, do it bla bla,
take away the food, the whole day, flew by so fast.
I didn't even eat. Until I was like three or four
and they were shocked. I hadn't eaten yet and I could
eat from the food supply. Yeah.
Those the first day that was the job.
Okay. That was the, this whole layout
was just to describe the job that I had.
Now, the single thing I remember most was we worked on top of the
dike. How do you say dike dike dike?
Yeah, and I like a dyke on top of the dike, which overlooks the
water and has a lot of the touristy shops next to us.
Was the jewelry, or actually a staircase, leading up to the
dike, and then a jewelry. Now, I was cleaning the Windows,
like, I did every morning and I saw three people on a scooter.
I was like, that's fucking weird and they walked up and they put
on the, is it a balaclava? It's like a beef augments in
Dutch balaclava, basically, and walked up the thing and I was
like, what did I just see? And we had a, my bosses and
she's like 70. She was smoking next to the
staircase, because the stack is these down, they pushed her
inside and say, get the hell inside.
And I was Click okay, so she came up yelling but she always
yells. Oh no one took her seriously and
she said they're going to rob the place next to us because
that's what she thought. Obviously if you take that
stairs and there's a jewelry next to them, they going to rob
the place. So I basically confirmed that
was a gas, all the people and all of a sudden we heard a
gunshot. And yeah, that's the first time
in my life ever. That's the first time ever.
I've heard a gunshot it's not common here in Holland.
So I was like, what the hell are we going?
We basically ran inside, we tried to find cover.
I picked my hat Outsiders are one guy like randomly pointing a
gun, which means the other two people were inside, and they
tried to rob the place. They like, smash the window, and
when you do that, just so you know, if you're gonna rob a
place, that's when the alarm goes off, automatic alarm shuts,
everything down, so you can grab anything.
So they didn't really grab anything and then they ran down
the stairs and they ran off with our scooter now.
The whole time because we knew there was a robbery one of the
main guys that was in charge because the boss wasn't there.
He was on the phone with the law, with the law with the
police saying like the robbing the place get here as fast as
possible. Now apparently as fast as
possible in in Dutch police terms, not always.
But in this case means we're going to be there in like half
an hour 45 minutes, not with all the reinforcements.
I thought they would come with but with one truck basically and
the guy couldn't come out because he was Another people I
don't really know the story. Now they asked me to How do you
say this? Describe the people?
And I really, I had a really hard time because I didn't
really get a good look, and I don't think they actually found
the people. That's one of the things I
remember most now, interestingly enough, they have this TV show
where they talk about crimes that have happened.
So I started very, very early. One of the mornings on the
weekends around 7:30 and about eight a bus rolled up and a
camera crew came out and they were trying to Reenact this
whole scene with the staircase and blah blah blah because I
asked them, what are you filming?
Because it was interested, then like yeah we're going to do it
and blah blah. It's going to be on that TV
shows like fine, okay? Now one of the people that was
there on the day that it happened with the gun show and
everything. He started a bit later he
started at 9:00 and he drops his bike off at the bottom of the
staircase. Now, when they were filming,
they obviously had the people with the developments the
balaclava, and the guns again, and they walked off the There's
as exactly as he drove up and he wanted to place his bike there.
So he was in shock, obviously. He was like, this is the second
time the shit is happening, why? And then they had to be like, no
no, no, I'm filming, okay, calm down this is not real.
So if there is any thing I remember was The Gunshot and
then the aftermath of the whole publication.
I saw it on TV, it was not as good as I thought it would be
very dramatic, wasn't that dramatic.
But yeah. Long answer, long story on that
note. We're going to round it off
here. Thank you so much.
Q&A number 3, a.m. a number one, Rebrand all around.
I'm gonna call it. A May from now am a number one.
Let me know what you thought in the comments below.
Leave some comments if you have thoughts.
See you on the next one.