Hi everyone. My name is Patrick Ewing for
today's guest, I have Vanessa gnocchi on, she's the CEO and
founder of go stock, Corporation, and she shared how
she made this side, hustle into, her main hustle, on top of that.
We discuss, leveling up in your career, investing in yourself,
as well as driving work. Ethics of my favorite topics.
Fun little tidbit. She's a Reality TV.
Junkie who doesn't let that stuff above our socials in
description below. Check her out.
Let her know you came from our show.
And with that being said, enjoy the episode.
I bought my little desk and I, it was going to be my floor
desk, but it's actually, like, a thing, you can put on your
kitchen table or something like that, and it becomes a standing
desk. But I live very minimalistic
lie, cuz I'm planning to work more remote even outside of all
of the, actually I'll really go to Portugal in May, and we're
planning to go to Barcelona again because I did that last
year, also, summer in september/october.
So that's gonna be a lot of fun help.
Yeah, I really I want to start trying to do that but I just I
haven't really kind of worked out the logistics.
Yeah. So hopefully I can work that
out. I want to try and do like work
from somewhere that's hot but I think for me I like the UK and
the summer. Yeah.
So I'm trying to do. Maybe winter like in December to
may be February. Yeah.
In a hot climate. Yeah.
Yeah, that sounds. I mean, we looked at South
Africa and that is like, perfect.
Same time zone, but in our winter, it's their song.
Omer, which is amazing. Yeah, that's why I'm looking
because I was out there. My family, I live out there so
I'm actually looking at South Africa, actually for December.
Yeah, so I'm having to go back. I was there too for two weeks in
Christmas, but now I want to try and do like six to eight weeks
and see what it's like yes'm now friends of mine have done it but
I've never been but I could see their pictures and like their
stories and it sounds amazing. It's so good.
Yeah, it's really good. So I definitely do you have a
like a physical space? Case you go to in London as
well. We have not co-working spaces,
so I'm hoping that once we close our investment, man, I want to
get office space so we'll see. But I just use that we work for
co-working, which is pretty cool.
And I was just saying, I was actually saying to my friend
earlier that I need to start going out to the office more
because I kind of, I'm usually home quite a lot.
Yeah. So yeah.
That's one of the things I need to sort out.
Interesting. And you mentioned, you're doing
an investment round. Whoa yes me no house look like,
yeah, so we've just open a car precede.
So precede funding. So there is an investment.
So we've just launched our web app in beta mode.
And we want to expand in the US and Africa.
So I'm raising investment for us for our scale and to develop our
app. Yeah, well.
So do you the picture yourself like talking to the investors
and like pitching? What you have to offer as an
organization? Yes, we've got our pitch deck,
right? And so now we're just like
applying for quite a few accelerator programs, but like
having conversations now, with some VCS and some angels, to get
some of them investment. Yeah.
That sounds. That sounds awesome.
It sounds like, I mean, I'm looking at it from my
perspective. I would be very nervous going
into those conversations, but probably the more you do them,
the better you get at them. The less nervous.
You get. How long do you reckon?
Yeah, it's nerve-racking. Especially, when there's no you
kind of When you look at the stats like like for black women,
we get naught Point naught point two percent of VC investment.
So it feels like your kind of your kind of.
It's just not like you haven't got a chance but the chances are
slim. Yeah so it's going to I know
it's going to take me longer. So when you kind of have that in
your head sometimes you can make sure you feel, you have to get
over the nerves. Yeah.
So, but I think, yeah, the more I do it, the more comfortable
I'm getting definitely. Yeah I can imagine.
Yeah, I heard from the knees of that like getting those
investment rounds and even The conversations you can have in
there can be pretty harsh for minority groups or even women in
that. And that actually caught me off
guard because I didn't expect that to be the environment you
go into, and it's sad to hear that.
It is that way. Is it is?
Yeah, and I'm in the data doesn't lie as well.
So you can't say, oh it's women, it's in their hands.
It's like, no. Yeah, I think women got like two
percent and then black women and were like naught Point naught to
yeah, that's yes. Insane.
Yeah. Can you can you walk us through
what your organization is and what you're doing on a more day
today? Yes.
So I'm the founder and CEO of girls took Corporation.
And essentially what we do is we have a community of 50,000 women
there in Asia Africa Europe and the Americas.
And we connect them to jobs and opportunities.
So we're all about increasing the number of women in the
global Workforce and so we help companies connect the female
talent and then help women to level up.
Their careers. So essentially what we do we
have our web app that has just launched in beta mode and it's
going to connect female Talent across the globe to companies
but then it also allows companies to really showcase
their employer brand and connects directly and advertise
jobs and opportunities. Yeah.
They can host their own events as well mentor, and the
platform. So we kind of our kind of main
final now is going to be through our web app, but we also run
lots of Programs and events that help, and give women, especially
those from marginalized communities, direct access to
recruiters. So one of our most famous events
is called the black, the black girls Tech Summit.
Yeah, and that connects black women in Tech with recruiters,
as well. Awesome, awesome.
I mean, you mentioned it earlier that it's a global organization,
right? Because you're all over is your
team spread out over the globe as well, to accommodate for
that. Yes, so we have a global team.
So we're based in Europe. Say, the main team is based in
the UK, but we also have opened a hub in Lagos Nigeria.
And we've also got a hub in Berlin Germany as well.
And what does opening up a hub? It like entail.
Because if you look at CBL like the organization I work at, I
looked at our website and we have offices everywhere.
And I'm like, that's just an officer is, they're actually
people also working there because I never knew we had
offices there. Yeah, it's both when you open up
our heart, be really opening up your so we've got a staff member
in Lagos Nigeria but we also Have ambassadors and a community
that's based in Lagos as well. When we say, open up at how
we've got a team member full-time team member who's
based in Lagos Nigeria. Yeah.
And they're looking at growing our community in Nigeria and
then, but I kind of frequent between Berlin and London quite
a lot. So, we've got a co-working space
in with Factory, Berlin in Germany.
And then London, the rest of our team are based in London.
Nice, nice. That's awesome.
I mean, for me, like, I can see myself, Starting an organization
have set this on the podcast, like I imagined myself in a few
years, starting something up, and what that is going to be.
I have no clue but initially, it would be in a physical space or
with people in the same environment where I can sit
face-to-face and have discussions and get stuff done
in that way, but I don't see or I see a lot of challenges in
doing that globally, right? Aligning people, that are not in
the same space completely somewhere else and opening a
hub, even in different countries.
Like what are some of the challenges?
Ages you've been through with regards to that is challenging
but I think it's also great because for me we've got a
global community. So the advantage is you don't
have to necessarily be in the same country and if I focus my
efforts on trying to get a team that face-to-face in one
location, it would slightly would sort of stumble our
growth. I think for me as a CEO and
founder, especially as we're expanding our team in the next
18 months. I just have to make sure that I
have some kind of presence where some of my core team members are
also trying to make sure I visit on a regular basis.
And for us as a global team where people team members are
based all over the UK and globally.
We just try and make sure that we check in as much as we can.
So, you know, every Monday, we have like, what we call weekly
gist or weekly team gist. It's a call, that's no more than
20 minutes and it's just for everyone just to check in.
In with each other, catch up on the weekend.
And just we just flag any critical or high level kind of
information. And then I make sure every week
for, at least an hour I checking with each team member and it
that is quite tiring. But I find it's so important
because when you have team members where you can't see them
every day, I want them to have that time with me.
I want them to feel like they're part of our organization and we
do lots of things. We have lots of Team, fun on,
Zoom virtually. We use slack a lot.
And also, you know, having sort of regular team meetings and
just kind of keeping that communication and dialogue makes
people feel like they're part of something.
Yeah but I feel though that I do miss the kind of face to face so
I feel like hybrid is better so when you have some time face to
face and then sometimes remote yeah I mean those are always
going to be learning is right? Because remote working.
I mean it's Been there for a few years and Corona kind of
accelerated in the pandemic but it hasn't been established.
What the best way of working is and even so you can have
preferences in the way that you work together, right?
And I love that, you're saying that you take time to build the
relationships with the people working in your team because
that's an incredibly important feeling to be part of a team in
that way, as well to have that conversation with you for their
own personal growth and opportunities and for bonding
because at the end of the day, you're going to do this as as a
team. So you also need to operate as a
team instead of as a group of individual spread across the
globe in that way. Yeah.
How did you get like a community up and running?
Because I heard that a lot, maybe even from a marketing
point of view, we go there and we're trying to build a
community and I can see partially how you do that with a
lot of networking, but how is the pain for you?
How have you built this community up to a number that
you mentioned like 50k or something like that?
You have to be organic and I see a lot of, I guess, startups.
They, they are starting up to build a community and that's
that's quite challenging. Yeah.
So I worked backwards. I built my community and then
built a company that was able to then service that community.
That makes sense. So you have to really be
authentic when I started Girls Talk, ten years ago, there was a
this type of community available for me in London and so I said
it up. And I started out small.
So I started my first event, I got about 50 school girls from
London and five women that I knew who worked in the city and
we would then meet up every quarter.
So how small events and then I you know after about a year
doing events I then thought of the name Girls Talk London,
registered the name and then had a website and then I started
posting articles on the website and then started our social
media pages, Is and then you just slowly build and grow and
take your, take your time. I never had the end goal to be.
I want to have 50,000 women in my community.
I never I just I didn't had. I could never have envisioned
that, but I knew that I wanted to make a difference and create
a safe space for women. And so I think you have to
really think about your purpose. What you want to achieve and put
in the time, it's taken me 10 years to build this community.
And yes, if I had maybe the Horses and finance.
We could be maybe further along fair enough but what I love
about my community is that it's authentic and they're very
engaged. So you really have to be genuine
because people can they can suss out if you're not and if you're
just trying to profit off of a community and use it for your
benefit, you have to always put them first and think about what
their needs are and how you can support them.
And so that's what I. My advice would be for anyone.
Who's thinking about that. Yeah, from the ground up the way
you described. Can't see it going well in any
other way, right? Because if you go with kind of
an end goal in mind, I want to have 100K people in a community.
Like what does that even mean and where does that come from
right? The only way to do that
sustainably for the long-term and inauthentic way is for that
to be your passion and then the number doesn't matter at the end
of the day because you're going to do it regardless of the
number, right? Because you want this, you
envision something for this and you want to service a certain
Community. I think that's the only way to
sustain no bleep, build something up.
And one of the things you mentioned in being authentic for
the community and also for people that view you, as part of
that Community, the importance of that I had a conversation
with Alex freyberg and he has a YouTube channel and he does
content creation on full-time. And he talked to me about
sponsorships and an important aspect of that for him was also
staying authentic. And he gave me an example of
like a sponsorship deal gone bad, where he had to At
something, he didn't really believe in anymore because some
part of the agreement, all of a sudden changed and I think
that's very hard for someone in that position to stay authentic
and truly yourself. If it's not from the ground up,
have you had any experiences where you're like, God I
probably should have done this differently because this is not
me or this is not what I want to be.
No. But I suppose some examples have
been. So there have been a few
companies where one company in particular with the found.
I was very controversial. Yeah.
You know, that city that has sort of made.
I guess, borderline sexist, racist remarks.
And I've just said, I really didn't want to kind of engage in
conversations further so I do look at that, I do.
Look at when we partner with companies like what you know, I
look at the behaviors that the Founder and CEOs.
I look at if you know what's been going on in the news how
are they treating their employees?
Because I don't want to put mine community into jobs for a
company that doesn't treat their employees, right?
So I don't necessarily just think, okay?
Let me just work with any company, there was a process and
we look closely at each corporate partner to make sure
that they're the right fit. So I've never worked with a
company where On the outset, I felt that there wasn't some kind
of genuine Synergy there. I have had instances where
companies have had shown or their employees have shown a
lack of integrity and I've just disengaged with them.
So I am quite confident and want to be assured that in terms of
how we do business. That we work with people who
have integrity who treat us with respect and sadly, not all.
Employees and companies behave like that.
So when that's the case, we don't work with them.
Yeah, yeah I can imagine if your values don't align or if you see
a lack of Integrity in certain aspect of doing business, then
the only way to go forward is to cut that off and to move on,
right? Because if you associate
yourself with that, it's going to have a kind of dishonest
feeling and a distrust of the community that is in there that
you engage with as well. And one of the main things you
do, one of the two main things you and is linking your
community to businesses, right for them to have a career in
that way as well and an aspect you described, as you analyze
the corporation's to do so. But what does that linking
process? What does that entail?
Like, do you do conversations with the people that apply or
does not go to a recruiter of the company and how much
involved are you in the first place?
Yeah, I mean I think when we, we just want to make sure that our
community get access to lots of jobs and opportunities as
possible. The bull.
So it just depends on the I guess resource from the company
side. So we just kind of iron out how
they want to support because it depends on the industry.
So it depends on the industry and what initiatives we have
which they can support and then we kind of aligned that way.
And then the idea of our web app is we just want as many
companies as possible to come on there and then they can kind of
decide how they want to utilize the platform because there's
loads of different features that are going to Be coming up as
well so they can use it as a way to Showcase their employer
brand. They can host their own events,
they can mentor and the platform, they can advertise
jobs and opportunities. So it's really about how much a
company wants to get involved and how much capacity they have.
And then as long as we feel like they are aligned in terms of
values and we can identify ways for them to support our
community, then we are good to go.
Yeah. Interesting.
And for the people that then apply at those companies that
put themselves out there, What if something you've seen that
people look at the most like, is it employee branding?
Is it, like, work-life balance? Like what are some of those
company aspects that are really like, make or break in those
conversations or those rolls its culture?
So it's how do they treat their employees?
What kind of fireman is it for employees and a day-to-day and
also about the career progression, people want to know
what's my journey going to be like and this company for the
next say at least three to five years and then want to stand
that journey and really understand that they're going to
have lots of different career opportunities.
They're going to have visibility and they're going to grow and
develop and that's ultimately what our community look for
because our community in particular very ambitious.
Women. Yeah.
So they went to progress and sort of rise to the top.
No. Could imagine I mean.
Yeah for me it's it's hard and I'm going to take this use case
of my personal environment where people join, let's say a big
Tech organization. Even a few because I know a few
of people that have this and from an outward facing
perspective employer branding is on point.
There's lots of career growth and opportunities in there, at
least that's how it's marketed. But then when they find
themselves in a position like that all of a sudden they're
stuck there there for a year or two without any promotion, it's
hard to move horizontally or horizontally that alone
vertically and they just have this feeling of stock and they
can do stuff to kind of try and progress.
But they might hear a lot of know and with that in mind,
they're like, okay, maybe not this year.
But next year and all of a sudden their years down the line
in that ambition kind of, I wouldn't say diminishes.
But that is kind of the feeling I get sometimes.
And I think it's a real shame because from an outward point of
view, everything looks fine and dandy.
But then when you find yourself within an organization, it's
really hard to kind of level up with regards to your growth and
career path. Is that something you've seen as
well and next to that, what would you advise for people that
find themselves? Herbs in a position like that.
Is is very individual and it really varies in terms of the
size of the organization. So for example if you work for a
corporate where they maybe have 100,000 employees in there in
100 countries, for example, you're going to have more
opportunity to think about working internationally or
moving to a different department.
So if it just depends if you're working for a smaller company
where maybe you could even have 10 employees.
Yeah. There's very there's a little
bit I guess less room to kind of go at that career path.
But then you have to think about your role as an entrepreneur and
maybe create your own job spec, think about think a bit more
about how you can add value and drive the business.
So it really really does depend. I think women need to think
about their career as an individual and what they want to
get out of it because then your manage your expectations.
There are some people that, for example, get a job with a
startup. And then expect to be on a
six-figure salary after six months.
Yeah, that's not going to happen, right?
That maybe you might work for a large multi-billion company and
if you hit the ground running and you're an awesome star
player, you might, you know, so you really have to understand
what industry you're in, understand the size of your
business, understand the lay of the land, because that's where I
find a lot of women get disappointed because they don't
manage your expectations. Yeah.
And they're not Not really making conscious next career
steps. Hmm.
What do you mean with like conscious next career steps?
Is that like putting yourself in a position to do so or what do
you mean with that? Yeah.
Think about what company you want to work at because if you
want a very fast career progression, maybe you need to
work out a bit more of a larger organization because then you're
going to have more scope for those, you know, after a year.
You could, you know, for example, I've had one of my
family members off, she's like she started working for Big
International Bank and after a year she got a job in Dubai.
Hmm. So with those larger companies
are they have loaves of massive Global footprint you can after a
year get an exciting, new job, move country.
And so it's about thinking about where it is that you want to
work and being quite conscious about that looking at their
footprint, some people might want to work for a smaller
company that you have to bear in mind that then the career
progression. Might be two to three years.
Yeah. And how are you going?
Going to create, you know, those kind of career opportunities for
yourself. So, for example, if you're
working for a smaller company, you have to think like an
intrapreneur. So think about, can you bring
new business to this company? Can you even create a role?
Can you see a gap in the market that they could enter into?
I feel like smaller companies. What's quite exciting is, you
can kind of make the job, your own.
Yeah. So I think it's just getting
clear on those things because that's when you're more
conscious about, Your career steps and you're making the
right career steps for you. I like that a lot for me.
It always helps to have a conversation with someone about
that, like, about me my role and my vision and my career because
I like just because of the day-to-day things, you don't
really take a step back and think of that, right?
But if you have a conversation with someone and the purpose of
that is to do that, then all of a sudden a lot of information, a
lot of insights happen. Do you offer that as well?
Like within your community or it are those with the meetups are
for the conversations are about? Yeah that's what we have our
meetups for so we have our meetups for them to.
We talk about different topics where they can hear from
different women who had different career Journeys.
We also have a newsletter that goes out globally, it really is,
but it's every two weeks and we have a lot of thought,
continents thought leadership pieces on how women can approach
their careers. And we also have a spotlight our
community members as Also, we do a lot of back in our meetups and
in our newsletter as well. Interesting for me one of the
things I still had a thought about when it comes to loving
the leveling up in your career, is that I know people and they
are at their dream company, right?
Size wise and potential career opportunity wise yet they still
feel stuck and then they're like, okay I see people leaving
the company and coming back in x amount of years but they don't
want to leave the company, right?
Because that then looks weird as well if you're leaving that kind
of boomerang. NG back.
So then they still feel like they're waiting and bigger
companies. More hierarchical organizations
have kind of structures and governance in place where moving
upwards happens on a yearly basis.
Maybe on a by yearly basis and if you skip one of the bi-yearly
like I guess I did say that slots because there's only a few
available slots for actual promotions.
Then you have to wait another year or maybe even two years in
that way. So then your career progression,
Ian from an expectation, point of view, might not be what you
expected in joining this company.
Yet, you do find yourself in your dream company, not being
able to move upwards. Have you seen that as well?
Yeah, I've seen that in my own career and that's why I kind of
ultimately just thought, you know what?
I'm gonna just you know, pursue growing my own company and being
in control of my own destiny. So, I think at that point, if
you feel like you've hit a glass ceiling, then it is a sign.
Okay, it's time to move on. That's a sign.
Yeah. If you feel like that´s it, it's
time to move on. Do people usually take that
decision more easily? Because I feel like I look
around in companies when I feel like I've hit a wall when I've
exhausted every every single option within my own company.
That's then when I look at words, but when I have
conversations with people that feel stuck in this, they feel
kind of a post to that they'd rather, wait it out and maybe
wait until opportunity arises yet.
It may not arise in any case and I like that you said, like it's
time to move on but I do find that people have a hard time
making that decision and move on.
Yeah, you've got to be calculated, so I wouldn't quit a
job. If you haven't got another job
lined up, or you haven't saved, at least six months worth of
expenses, I think in this climate, you really need a year.
So you need to make sure that if you feel like your time is up, I
would say, get another job before leaving.
But if you feel that you just want to get out of that
environment, they need to make sure that you can pay all of
your expenses. And I'm talking about having
that social life and everything, for at least six to 12 months in
this climate before you Is that it has to be calculated and
planned. Yeah yeah I alone with her as
well. I mean you said for yourself
that was also at some point the case in which you moved on and
started what you have now but that's like something that
happened. I think over 10 years ago you
walk us through kind of the transition in there and those
decisions you made as well with regards to that.
Well I'd always run girls took as a side hustle.
So I actually left my job to two years ago.
So so and so Girls, took was always, you know, on the side.
So, I'd worked in diversity and inclusion.
I've worked in India, and I, yeah, for over 16 years.
So, I'd been ahead of dni at a law firm.
I worked as a day and night manager at UK Parliament and
then my last roll was an International Bank.
And I was part of the dni team doing their Global strategy.
So it was at my last row at the International Bank when I just
felt that girls talk was growing and where I was Lacking.
It was a very toxic environment for me.
I didn't see that the career progression wasn't really there
it was just so bureaucratic and I just thought let me just focus
on my business so I think I've been working for a really long
time and it was just time for me don't mean to go if I hadn't
have had my own business and I would have I would have found
another role. Interesting yeah I like that it
started out as a side hustle because then the transition to
do that full time is not that much of a big bang, right?
Because it's fairly established. Shhhhht.
And then, you can just spend your time and attention
full-time on it and try and accelerate the process in that
way. Yeah, exactly.
Do you think a lot of people start kind of a side hustle on
their job nowadays? Because I hear that more often
than previously and I mean, I can see the podcast as kind of
an example of that this podcast. I know you started a podcast
also to have conversations on have a separate YouTube channel,
which I mean like to call it a side Hustle but it is something
that I would love for it to blow.
And I think people do that more and more, it's also more easy to
do. So is that a trend you've seen
as well? Yeah, I always say to people
that make sure when you set up a side hustle, you do your main
hustle. Very well.
So, I was really good at my job. I was really passionate about it
because I just love diversity and inclusion.
So actually, my side hustle was still related to my main hustle.
So, I would say number one, make sure you do an excellent job in
your main hustle number one. Yeah, and I think with the side
hustle with the climate, Now, there's so many layoffs, and so
many situations that can go wrong, so many emergency that
can come up. So, my side hustle enabled me to
get on the London property ladder, which is very difficult,
having two incomes helped me. So, your side hustle can help
you with that. It can help you get out of debt,
it's so it can, it can really add a lot of value, but you just
have to make sure when I was doing my side hustle, I would
get burnt out quite a lot. So you're going to be at risk
Burnout. And I think you have to be quite
clear about where the burnout is coming from because sometimes
you might think, oh, it's my job.
That's giving me burn out. But at some point to my side
hustle was because doing the to is quite a lot.
Yeah. So you do have to really manage
your time, manage your well beings, but you're not kind of
overextending yourself as well. Yeah.
Can you walk me through the situation that occurred for you
when you kind of felt that you were heading towards a burnout?
You mentioned you were busy with obviously, to two things.
At the same time. And obviously if you can spend
full-time attention to both of them, you would yet your body
and probably your mind cannot keep up.
That's why you're heading towards her.
Not like can you walk me through that case?
Yeah, it was at the point where our sort of our work remit was
girls talking just growing and growing and growing.
So we had loads of clients coming willing to sponsor events
but then also of my data, was I mentioned the environment.
Just was not conducive for me to work in.
So that increases burnout, because if you're working on
top, Toxic environment and you're not happy in your day job
that stress builds up. So I think it was doing a very
busy event sees em for us, which is in Q4, and that's when I
realized, you know what, it's not worth it.
Yes, I think you're kind of, you start to just to feel exhausted.
And I mean, I do experience burnout, actually, even now as
an entrepreneur, but I think when you have a side hustle, you
can, but you just noticed that, you know, you can become quite
irritable. You having trouble sleeping, or
you just feeling really lethargic and out, Down.
That's a sign of you know, burn out.
Yeah. And now how do you deal with
that when you feel those signals or when others flag those
signals and they see and you what do you do to kind of?
I mean take a break from that is hot because you can't sometimes
you can't just stop everything everything that you're doing.
So I think you just have to think about K.
When's my next holiday. Try and book something as soon
as possible for at least a week where you don't look at emails.
You you just And see if you can be somewhere where you can zone
out and relax, being your happy place.
And just take some time for you and just to sleep sometimes.
All you need to do is sleep, all you need to do is nothing.
Yeah, it's a Triumph book in that time and then start just
saying, no to things sometimes burn out, comes out from saying
yes, to absolutely everything. So think about what can come off
the calendar. If it's not what I had this term
business critical. Yeah, I if, if it doesn't
determine my income it can come out the diary so just really
Think about what is business-critical is is the
other meetings with your clients that pay you if it is you keep
it in any other meetings can go. So start trying to clear out
your calendar and move things are not urgent.
Start trying to go to bed earlier, you know, even if you
have to do like a nine to five and then just pull back a little
bit from your side hustle. Those small things will help you
like slowly address the signs of burnout.
Yeah, I can imagine. So it's, it's taking care of
yourself and looking after you Being well.
The hard part of that is the very ambitious people with a
high sense of responsibility want to do as much as possible.
And I think they're a Target group that looks after
themselves. The least which is also why
those people are more that they have a higher chance of heading
towards a burnout in that way, it's something I've recognized
Within Myself where I did so many things back to back to
back, and I heard signals from friends and family.
The sedan, we haven't seen you again or not again, but in in a
while and quite Quite a while actually and that for me was a
signal like okay, I can explain this but it's all going to sound
like excuses because I'm doing this to myself.
I'm saying, yes to all those things and it comes from a good
place because I want to do all those things.
I love doing all those things but maybe it's not realistic,
maybe it's not possible and it's definitely not sustainable for
the long run but I have absolute difficulties saying no to the
things I love doing. It's something I'm trying to
improve, I'm something. Hopefully I'm getting better as
well in writing down goals and things.
I Focus on yet, it's still be, is a hard thing to do.
What have you done to kind of cultivate that skill of saying?
No, is that an easy thing for you or the struggle with it as
well? I struggle with it as well
because we're a small team but we have like a massive remit.
So that's why I'm raising investment to grow my team
because I can just feel we're at that point now where we're just
like a capacity. But for me, I have to be just
transparent honest. If you're a startup and you're
trying to grow for me, now, I'm in that situation where you had
to be very careful. Careful about what you're
saying, no to is such a difficult climate right now.
Yeah, I don't have the luxury. Of saying no no no all the time
and so I'm kind of in that Grind Mode.
I think it's just for me it's just making sure that I'm
carving out downtime right now rather than saying, no, I think
I would say no. If I feel like a my health is in
Jeopardy. Yeah.
And so I have to just be quite honest and transparent.
Yeah I think I'm in startup Grind Mode, it's not easy.
There's so many barriers for me, as it is that I kind of
understand that that Right now, but I think I am being just a
little bit more cautious about sort of making sure I have down
time rather than, rather, than being in the NO phase and
everyone. I think it's in different
phases. Yeah.
Yeah, I could imagine. So, I like that perspective,
it's very realistic. Right?
Because if you're here have, or if you are within a company
within a job, then it's a bit. Maybe safe is not the right word
but you have less risk, right? Because if you're in your
startup and you're kind of at the helm of that startup, then
saying no might just lose you an opportunity and in that way
especially in this I can economy, it might spiral as well
into a place. You don't want to go too.
So with that in mind saying no might not be the right way to go
about it, but I like then that you're mindful of that, that
maybe know right now you're not in a position to say no all the
time but then that down Time is how you make it more sustainable
than it would be otherwise because otherwise it's going to
be a very, very long harsh road ahead.
Yeah, exactly. And I think it's, I guess it's
like not saying no to, I guess meetings or things like that,
but I definitely will say no to people who I feel want the right
fit for me. Yeah so you know an example can
be you know people that don't really maybe sort of value your
time for example and you think copies person it could be maybe
not About getting an advisor or working with someone and they
just show a lack of consideration for your time.
Maybe you just don't get great energy from them, you just feel
like maybe they're not aligned. You can choose as well.
Like who you want to work with and who you want to go on this
journey with as an entrepreneur? Yeah, I think that's really
important because just because you might think oh my God.
But this person is X and they're in this industry, the right
people for you will be the right people for you.
And there are some people that That just aren't suited.
And and you should be okay with that as well.
Yeah, interesting. I like that, a lot.
You come across as someone that has like a really good sense of
sense of self-awareness in that way, right?
Even when you talk about your burnout or the way you invested
in yourself in, starting up a side gig and making that your
main also. But for me, I'm wondering in
people to always talk about investing in yourself, right?
And that can be in education, it can be in trainings, it can be
in starting something that you can make.
A full-time career in what is something that you invested in
with regards to yourself that really has paid for the long run
in that way? I think I've, I've always
invested in, for example, attending events when I was
starting out going to events where I put up skill as a
leader. So I've invested a lot of time
in, you know, listening. So like reading I'm an Avid
Reader. So I listen to it, I read.
I listen to a lot of audible books.
I read books, listen to podcasts, go out to events where
I can hear from people who I want to be like, I watch a lot
of YouTube Interview. That's really pretty much what I
do. I do.
I'm always trying to get that knowledge.
So it's investing that time and if I've had to up skill or go to
a course, or a conference, I will do that.
Yeah. And I think also people talk a
lot about, okay, investing in yourself, but people also don't
talk about the sacrifice so I always, you know, I didn't, I
took a lot of sacrifices as well throughout my career where I was
doing a lot of girls talk stuff for free.
I was putting my own money into some of our events so I would
pay for all of the refresh. I meant food venue higher, I was
out of pocket and I was a very broke, 20 year old in London, so
I was always broke, putting all my money investing in girls
talk. I founded the website, my first
website myself, everything that we did throughout the years,
it's been money from from me. And so I think that's how I've
invested in myself as well at putting my resources into my
business before I asked a corporate to you know to then
pay us and work with us. I was putting in my money and
what that meant was I'd say. A lot of my friends were buying
houses way before me. We're going on.
Really nice holidays were wearing lovely clothes and just
looking amazing. All right, all of these small
things and I was only able to do that, I guess reasonably in
terms of reasonably recently. So that's a sacrifice and
investment people. Don't always realize you've got
to put money into your business. First, you have to be your first
investor. Yeah, that's amazing.
I love how it. Got to that point, right?
Because you've invested so much time and effort and even
resources of your own into your organization and it has gotten
to a point where it's being dividends, right?
And it will for the future. But that road towards that must
have been a hard one and a long one as well.
And I think it takes an incredible amount of work ethic
from someone in that position to first, of all, believe in
themselves invest in what they want to create even before it
pays dividends because everyone. At some point when you make it,
they're going to be the called that's amazing.
But when you're on that road, really turning it out working as
hard as you can. You haven't been established
yet. So people don't give you those
compliments. So, the only one that believes
in you is probably your team and yourself in the people that
stand behind you. So I think that's very, very
commendable, that's awesome. Okay, how have you gotten your
work ethic to this point? Because everything you talk
about everything and even the way you come across, it sounds
like you have a great work ethic in the things that you do.
The decisions that you make as well.
Is that something that's happened in the past that you've
cultivated or how'd you get your work ethic up to this point?
I select my mum's been quite influential for me so growing
up. She always had two or three jobs
and so she was always working really hard so that we could be
comfortable. And I always, I was raised see
understanding and seeing that if you want to have something nice,
you've gotta work for it. So I that's always been
instilled in me. So I've got we in the UK, we
have like this back in the day if you wanted to get a job you
had to get a National Insurance number.
Yeah, I think I got mine when I was like 15 or 16.
And the minute I got that card. I got a part-time job.
So I've been working nonstop since I was 16.
So I've always had a job and I've always understood that if
you want to do things you need to have a job to do.
That sounds always instilled in me from very young, and I think
I've always been very entrepreneurial I've Loved.
I loved always love to create things and just understood that,
you know, that you have the power to create, right?
Yeah. And that's what's so exciting.
I've always been meaning inspired by that and I just know
that once you've I feel like I found my purpose and I feel like
I'm meant to be doing what I'm doing now.
So my work ethic comes from also being able to make a difference.
Like, I always want to make a difference and do something
really great with my time on this on this Earth.
And I think that's what motivates me.
Yeah, that's awesome. There's a lot of similarities
actually, in my personal past, my mom has always been my role
model, and as soon as I could work, Work.
I worked my ass off basically, because, yeah, I kind of the
same environment. If you want something, you work
hard for it. That's the only way you're going
to get it. Nothing is going to be given to
you. And that for me, has always put
a perspective of I'm in control. If I want something, I'll put in
the work to do that. Nothing is going to get handed
to me and I feel like the people that haven't gotten the same
upbringing or maybe the environment, think something,
some stuff should just be handed to them.
And I think it's very hard to have those conversations with
those people. Because I can't see it from
their perspective at all, mainly during the driver seat.
So if you want something, you make it happen.
You don't wait until something is handed to you.
Exactly. And I think I think we're in a
culture now in our society where there's a society that is driven
by entitlement. And for me that really rubs me
up the wrong way, I feel that you need to make sure you to
think about how are you adding value?
A lot of people, I'm single. Lot of people and I'm coming
across a lot of people who had this sense of entitlement.
I should be getting this, or I should have this job title, I
should have this car. I should have this house.
Why should you you've got to? Like you said, I've always been
raised, okay? If you want that car, if you
want that job, if you want that title, what are you doing to,
you know, to really get yourself to that place where you can
acquire that things are not just given to you.
And I do feel that social media plays a role that people think
about overnight success. And I think that everyone is
living a certain life and that they're not really seeing the
journey and the hard workers were talking about that goes
behind what people are achieving.
They might see an influence or driving a nice car but they
don't know that that influence our for the last 10 years has
been consistently, putting out 3, 4 videos a day, how much
planning and editing, and all of that behind the scenes, goes
into them, living that lifestyle.
And I think that's what's missing.
Yeah, in in our, in our culture today I agree with that as well.
It's I think work ethic and achievement should be celebrated
but the road to get to that should also be celebrated right
seam on exactly what's in the same amount of effort day in day
out, consistency out the Wazoo and work their ass off.
I think that is way more commendable than the assets.
They gain from that or the celebrity, or the fame, they get
from that. Because that's all that's all
surface level for me. What happens, under the hood,
how someone gets to that point? Because of their work drive and
ethic. Basically, I think that's the
thing that we should celebrate, but that's not what we celebrate
on social media. That's kind of the, The Shame of
the. I feel like, yeah, I agree.
Yeah, I've really enjoyed this conversation.
Vanessa talking about your own Journey, your work ethic, and
your drive. What you're doing on a day today
and I'm really happy. I got you on the pockets to talk
about this. Is there anything you still want
to say before we leave off? I just want to say just please
do keep, you know, keep in touch.
With me your your community can follow me on socials and yeah
check out at girls talk Global that's our social media handle
as well. So thank you for having me.
I've enjoyed this conversation as well.
Awesome me too. I'm going to put all the
necessary socials in the description below as well as a
link to Girls Talk London, check it out.
There are no, you came from our show and with that being said,
thank you for listening. We'll see you on the next one.