Hi everyone. My name is Patrick Akil and if
you're interested in hackathons, the vibe the culture, as well as
how it can help you throughout your career.
This episode is for you. Joining me today is Sasha car.
She's a software engineer at Google, as well as a hackathon
coach at Major League hacking. And she recently moved to the UK
to London, and dyed her hair red, new country new hair.
I love it. I'll put all her socials in the
description below. Check her out.
And with that being said, enjoy the episode.
Moving to London, was that kind of your first living abroad
experience? Yeah, I it was actually my first
living up anywhere outside of my home experience.
I was, I was born and brought up in Delhi, and that's I've been,
I've stayed there my whole life. So this is the first time that I
moved out of my city. And it wasn't just to another
city was just to a whole other country.
So here's a different experience.
So, how different is London from where you grew up in that
experience there in terms of for the city?
I think it's pretty much the same that.
Yeah, it's the same fast-paced culture that I see there.
It's that's about something or the other about activity or the
other going around. There is a bitch of bit of a
cultural difference for sure with India, and you're not like
in the UK and I think there is a people from a lot of diverse
backgrounds here that I can find.
So it's just, it's just great to actually meet new people from
who have had different experiences and they just talk
to them. Yeah, and it's an altogether,
different experience adulting a living by your own, your own, in
a new country. So in terms of that London has
been great, it has been there to help me out like, my friend is
sad that my friends have been there to help me out settle in
London and London has been great because I did find a bunch of
people to just travel around with and I've been traveling to
Europe and UK just to spend some time here.
Yeah, that's really cool. You already had friends there
before. Move there.
So I was about as you know that I'm part of Major League hacking
but that comes a global community of hackers.
And so I knew a bunch of people before I arrived here.
My best friend from my like my childhood friend shifted to
London a year ago. Well you're before me.
She pursued her grad post-graduation studies here and
she still liked it. I think in a Refinery or
something and so she was already here and I could just shift in
and then trouble her from there. So she was like really helpful
Belen that brand and then I knew a bunch of other people to
communities and stuff and so it was super cool to connect with
them. Yeah you can imagine it mean
going to a country and not knowing anyone is is such a
hurdle. But if you already have kind of
friends there and people that, you know, and familiar with then
it's a it's a smaller step. I feel like so huge, but a bit
smaller to. It's just I think I'm thankful
for those communities that I participated in when I was a
student being a part of those communities.
Help me Friends around the world.
So it's not like, if even like in any country that I go to, I
might be able to find one or two people to those communities,
which is great. Yeah, talk to me about Major
League hacking, and how you got involved there, because I'm
curious, of course. Yeah.
So I was a student in my University and I went to this
hackathon where I found this sticker with said, Emily and I
had no idea what that was. It was a hack.
It was a hacked on bear you. So you hackathons you know,
right? So there are a lot of has Like,
there's this, there's this Vibe around where you try to find the
most exclusive stickers for your laptop as a student.
And so that was the vibe that was going around.
Everybody was trying to find the most non-generic sticker which
is very special to them. And on that laptop that people
can see. And they're like, oh gosh, I do
want that sticker for myself and so I wasn't a hunt for those
stickers at all of these events. And so I ride for me and for
Major League hacking, what happened is that I got that
sticker and the tiger that gave it to me had multiple of them so
he didn't really Rather it bother him that I got that
sticker. So what happened was?
I got around to went home and I actually wanted to find out what
is the sticker that I've got. I've no idea what M alleged
means. I have no idea what major league
hacking is and so I Googled it and I found out that this is an
organization that empowers hot because I've already been
involved in a bunch of hackathons by then and so at
that point it was just more about.
Okay. Yeah, I do want to get involved
with this because it looks like a cool dog.
And isolation. And at that point, I approached
Joe who was going to lead the a bag version of mlh.
At that point, it was not active in the APAC region in India.
And so when I reached out to him was like, Hey, I do organized a
few hackathons and one organized, one for my community
as well and I would love to get some help from you.
I know you were there. Do support hackathons student
hackathons Etc. And so this would be a great
opportunity for me to connect with the, you folks and and
everything. And so that point they were like
In the plants will do it for expansion, but they haven't
really like expanded in that region yet.
And so the answer was like, yeah, we will reach out to you,
when, you know, we'll hear more. So it died down for a bit.
But then I remember the announced that they were
expanding to the region and there was this form up on their
page for the coaches program and I just happened to fill out that
form gave all the interviews and then gets elected as the first
coach for like, one of the first coaches for The APAC region.
So there All four of us who joined together and we went to
our first event in Singapore and the one in Nepal after that.
And then there was the one in Delhi after that right after
right after that, go with it. So everything for hit a pause
but we had a good run. During that period we went to
three different hackathons and three months which was an
incredible appeared for me. Yeah I think from a personal
point of view just the experience of being able to
travel. First of all is really cool and
then doing what you love. Of through that as well, is just
an awesome experience. I was, what I was wondering is
so we actually have Innovation days and I don't know how much
they differ from traditional hackathons.
So, Innovation days, we take a whole day and we play around
with new technologies and then the output of that could be a
product that could be a concept. And at the end of the day we
present that to the larger group.
So we still have that kind of knowledge, sharing aspect of it
is that similar or like comparable to a hackathon or
what is in essence, what What makes a hackathon, a hackathon,
of course. So with hackathons, it's
actually it's there are knowledge.
Sharing sessions. There are workshops and there
are, you know, some sessions where you can pair program and
stuff. Yeah.
But I think it's much more than that.
So basically, in hackathons what happens is that you go to
hackathon, you can go pull solo, you can form a team there.
You can just go together with your friends or something.
And then the, at the end of the event, the goal is to just build
something and New skills. Every person has their own
golden in their mind. It could be learning a new skill
that we can. It can be building a project
that they wanted to work on. It can be building their own
portfolio that they are procrastinating.
So everyone has their own goal in mind with the hackathon.
And most of the people have already some set idea of what
the hackathon would look like. If not, we are totally welcome,
big nurse. So if you come in and you have
no idea what a hackathon is an order, an event like that is
just come up and then talk to someone and they'll help you out
and help you figure that out what it means for you.
So basically you during the course of this event, whether
it's 24 hours, 36 hours or 48 Hours, your goal is to actually
be very particular about your personal goals if I put it that
way. So basically, if you're building
a project that we can, let's say, and I want to build a
health app that helps out folks. My goal in that 48 hours to make
like build as close of a perfect health app as I have in my mind.
It won't ever reach the perfect round.
Honestly, it would be far for perfect at the end of those 48
hours but it would be so fulfilling because I learned
Something new. And I'm closer to my goal than I
was before. And what I did eventually was I
had to build in projects for my portfolio and I had also had to
build in projects for some of the hacks that I had to do in my
University. And so basically that went just
going around hackathon after hackathon building, that same
project and reiterating and building it over and over again
over the course of a few weekends.
So that I don't have to spend some extra time out of my course
work during the weekdays and this could be just a weekend
thing and so it keeps Keeps me accountable.
So as I said, it's different for everyone, but it generally means
learning new skills, focusing on having fun, making new friends,
networking developing that projects Etc, and it still works
for me. Even in today's, I mean today,
when I'm working as a professional, I still love going
to hackathons just to meet people from that Network, find
mentors. Just talk to people in general
and then find like see where the current industry Trends are
going. How about hackers and building
projects and so it's super fun to be there.
And so I think hackathon supports you in each stages of
your life. It's not just something that you
do as a student, it goes away beyond that.
And so it just continues from there.
Interesting. Like I whenever you talk about
that, I feel a burning passion about hackathons but just give
full transparency. Like, Innovation days, are my
only experience with something comparable to hackathons.
You haven't been to a hackathon outside of my company, but
whenever I talk to people about, Hackathons they're super
enthusiastic, maybe it was because of the people I talked
to but no one talks bad about hackathons like it's an amazing
concept where people come together, they learn things,
they built things, either together or by themselves and at
the end of the day, yeah, it is fulfillment that happens.
I just don't know why it is hackathons.
Like, what about that environment?
Makes it so that people love going to that and the experience
is just the experience that they have.
I don't know why it's hackathons and not something else or why,
why they can't find it within their own.
Organization for example. Definitely.
Yeah, I think it comes more to the fact that hackathon culture
is, it's getting popular nowadays, but before, like, even
in my region, it wasn't as popular.
For example, it comes out with different issues.
Some our Logistics. I'm our cultural differences.
Some are just plain old like, yeah, we don't have the
resources to support that environment.
Like, for example, at my University, they were
logistically shoes. You couldn't really have
students to overnight, because there would be a professor that
needs to stay with you. And the professors were not did
not want you to. Yeah.
So they look like they were different problems.
That could arise from that particular node, but you can
always found a workaround that so there are had days that you
can use. For example, you talked about
Innovation days, that's a similar to a hacked a concept.
You can have like seven or eight hours print, instead of a
24-hour thing and I could work just as fine.
It's just that notion that Adrenaline Rush of organizing
and working or like participating in a hackathon.
But give you that idea. Okay?
Yeah this is how everybody is working on different projects.
This is how I mean the two students working on the same
thing. You'd never know they're working
style unless you work with them. And so hackathons, give you like
a pseudo working environment where you're working with a
team, are you working on a project and then it gives you an
idea on how it would be like if you're working in an
organization with the team to actually work on a project in
the gold? And so some of the principles
that I saw in A hackathon or worked.
And I worked with a team. I found in a hackathon at the
same principles that I applied to my working policy here in the
day. Sometimes, when I'm stuck at a
bug, I do make a sprint out of it and just for the hell of it.
I just hung there for a few hours, sitting with my task, and
then I try to complete it. I also try and seek help the
same way that I did during the hackathon.
So all of those skills are something that I developed over
time, but just going to these hackathons, I have been to a few
I participated in a few hackathons.
I've been to a some hackathons, I've mentored a few hackathons.
I think the score is reached over 50 or 55 by now, but I've
been so much involved in this community that it just makes
sense for me to that it. I understand how its evolved
from not being there in the community to a point where it's
so common that it's just a culture in all universities and
so even with I think organizations, as you said it is
not that common that they organize hackathons.
I think that Comes from and it is still understanding an
additional lead on how hackathons would support
employees as well. As suppose, the company, big
companies, like Google Microsoft and other companies as well,
they all support the hackathon culture.
And the reason they do is that they know when they give
employees open creative space just to work on their own ideas.
Yeah. Some brilliant and Amazing Ideas
would come out of these hackathons.
I heard I think if I'm not wrong paytm if I'm not mistaken, was
another project that came out. Well hackathon, I might be
wrong. So don't quote me on that but I
do have to like Google it confirmed, my facts here but I
heard that these are different companies that came out of a
hackathon project so they're always success stories.
They're so with organizations. Also they've they have learned
to adapt to the fact that these hackathons are a creative space
where employees can drink freely.
They're not bounded by their own project or the scope of their
own industry. Yeah, it's just mostly, yeah,
I'm gonna work on this creative idea because I'm passionate
about that and I know about that.
So I'm just going to expand to that space and then go from
there. Exactly.
I mean I recognize the trend that you're saying that
companies are more and more supportive of it right.
Either facilitating or sponsoring or organizing
themselves internally or even broader to other communities
such as trends of I've seen as well.
And I like that you say that the skills you've kind of cultivated
through participating in hackathons.
They translate to the real work environment, right?
Figuring out how to deal with bugs or asking for help when you
need to. I wouldn't expect that culture
to also be there in hackathons. Like, it makes sense when you
say it, but I feel like everyone goes, their kind of with their
own goal in mind and therefore, our focus on their own goals.
But I'm glad to hear that. It is an open community, that is
willing to help each other because obviously, when you get
stuck, sometimes you just need help or a mirror to bounce off
of. Yeah, and it's so great to see
you. Because that you.
So, any problem that you're facing in a hackathon, somebody
else has faced a similar problem before.
It's not something that you're alone working on your own
issues, it's not like that. You working on bugs, which other
people have fake. So if you post a message in the
community chat or just reach out to someone and talk to them and
or just ask a mentor who's there to support you, they would be
willing to help out because they understand the that Innovation
comes from a point where the culture is occlusive, where you
feel that you can work on things without being being stuck on a
problem for too long or getting disheartened along the way.
And so, it just comes from that I can imagine I was wondering as
well because I am now in a project where I'm for the first
time I've been involved since the start and that has never
happened to me before. Like I've been solved.
I've been a developer for like 5 to 6 years.
It's the first time where I'm at the start.
We're making all the decisions were building stuff from scratch
throwing things away because they don't work building things
again and iterating like that. And I feel like throughout your
career, there's not going to be The moments and that you truly
seek them out that you're going to build something from scratch,
right? You're going to go into an
organization stuff. Is already existing in.
You have to build features on top of that to add value but
truly starting from scratch, I don't, I don't know if everyone
gets to experience that which made me think that if you go
into a hackathon and you start building a personal project,
personal projects are usually where you do start from zero and
you go all the way to 1 so that might add to the experience as
well where everyone is trying to do something from scratch.
Get up. And running as fast as possible.
And that is the environment that you learned, then the most as
well. Which not a lot of people get to
experience. I feel like that's true.
And I think when you are actually working on an
environment where you're working on your own personal thing, you
have your own personal motivation, to build something
that basically a problem that and a solution a solution that
solves your particular problem. Something that you're facing and
so your passion comes from there, you have a motivation to
get it complete, you have a motivation to get it done.
Then during that, We can but you also have a motivation to learn.
So if you're working like let's say I want to learn a new
technology. I have never worked with Android
apps before and so this weekend, I do want to make sure that I've
built an Android app myself and at the end of the day, if you're
building some sort of version of an Android app, you'd call it
successful. There are a lot of people who
are hyping you up during a hackathon.
I mean, during mlh hackathons are a lot of people for sure who
I pick you up, and we'll cheering for you and making sure
that you understand that you're here to enjoy, have fun in
understand that the learning process is a process.
And so this isn't the end of the world where you can't finish or
complete an AB, during the end of the hackathon, what we want
to make sure is that your progress and so that progress is
what you want to associate your learning with your fun with.
And so that's how you know, hackathons teach me to.
Look at things. Yeah just think I think it's
interesting that you point out that in personal projects you
solve your own problems. Like your goals, are your own
and you are there to solve them while in an organization.
Usually, you're solving user problems, whether they're
internal or external. And sure you get fulfillment
through that because you're adding value right into someone
else's life. But there's not many instances
where you do that to yourself. I think that's I've never
actually realized that that from personal projects just solving
your own stuff or if you're building your own company, but
not a lot of people do so that's I think that's a very
interesting tidbit there when it comes to the duration of a
hackathon. Like I mean our Innovation days
are eight hours, we take a full day and usually, sometimes at
the end I'm like, okay, I would I'd love to progress with this,
but it's going to be in my personal time and then I don't
have my team because usually we group up in people or in teams
because I don't get to work with a lot of colleagues on a
day-to-day. So we do try and mix and match
in that way. But sometimes, it leaves me kind
of unfulfilled that one day, like, what is kind of the
perfect duration of a hackathon that you've seen?
Because there's a lot of variance where people go all out
and take a full week or something in between as well.
Yeah. So I think with organizations
and Big, they generally prefer a week-long hackathons.
And I understand the reason for that, it's that you're doing
your day-to-day work and this is something that you ain't doing
after that. And so people need more time to
actually adapt to that environment.
But there are certain points where, in the organization also
gives like their employees days off.
Like, there is a 2d or 3D hackathon and you have days off
that you don't have to work on your project during that time.
If you participate in the hackathon and you slowly working
on the project. So it also depends on the or
goals on how they want to structure it.
But student hackathons in particular, I've seen that
Sprint is how we actually do it. So we don't want to do like long
hackathons and where it's going week after week, you want to do
something like a 24-hour or 36-hour hackathon, which is
perfect because it's a limited size of this print.
People start working at a certain are and then they end at
a certain. Are we also encourage hackers to
just get some sleep and get some rest because it's a long journey
and they don't want to Tire themselves out but generally
they don't sleep, when it's like a whole 24 hours.
It's been for them. So I know for a fact I never
slept so I understand where they're coming from.
And so 24 hours is generally, I think a sweet spot where I've
seen most hackathons work with that format.
But some hackathons do go up to 36 hours and then gave hackers a
space to just sleep and rest. Relax, at that point.
Yeah. Because when you said like 48
hours, I was like. Is that across multiple days?
I hope so. Like, five up, I could be five
days. I feel like if you get, 48, are
hackathons it. It's actually straight up two
days but yeah, we definitely cover.
So they do sleep at that point for 24 hours.
We encourage them to sleep, but they don't sleep.
Now, I mean, you you touched upon the skills that you kind of
cultivated throughout hackathons and that translates your career
as well. I'm wondering what participating
in hackathons and being more involved, in those communities
have done for your career in progression, as well.
Can you share a little bit about that?
Of course. Yeah, I think a lot of these are
Unity is that I have in my gut, your journey, I got them from
hackathons. So I think the first opportunity
that I got from a hackathon was back when I was in Singapore and
I got a chance to interact with bunch of folks from there the
network grew because now if I am looking for some certain
opportunities like whether it's a it's going to a new hackathon
or maybe talking about something, you know just finding
some a platform to talk or share My Views upon.
Yeah. That Network actually grows and
gives me the opportunities people reach out to me, directly
to say that. Hey, this is something that we
would love for you to share your opinion on.
And that is, that is awesome. There's something that I would
love to do. I would love to give back to the
community, that helped me grow. And so, the hackathons have
helped me stay in touch with that community that way?
Yeah, the other thing that they have done is actually helped me
develop my skills and practice my debugging skills year after
year, when I go to these hackathons month after month,
when I am at a different event, I try to help out hackers and so
Debugging skills, get stronger and stronger, by the time I'm
looking at it go. Now, I've never worked with
certain Technologies before, but I do know how to debug those
Technologies. The reason being I worked with
hackers who are learning that technology is the same way that
I am that pert. They're very new to it.
I'm very new to it. If I haven't worked with it
before. And so it just develops that
sense of debugging skills that you are.
That you can translate to your workplace environment.
Now, if in Google, I'm working on a technology that I'm
absolutely unfamiliar with. Then those kids coming through
coming to picture because now I can actually figure out on my
own. Okay?
This is how I can progress. This is how I can like this is
where I exactly I need help and more context to solve that bug
and so all of those come into picture.
So yeah, I would say that there are different opportunities that
came in after I started participating hackathons,
whether it was speaking opportunities, whether it was
conferences or whether it was just plain old simple Network
where you can meet people and talk to them were like-minded
who have The same vision is you and then connect with them over,
you know, a coffee or a lunch, perhaps, and then take the
conversation from that. I found so many mentors from
just being at a hackathon. I mean, I so, with mentors and
sponsors. The thing is that I am I'm a
huge advocate for finding a mentor in your early stages of
your career, the reason being that they would, they would not
just give you advice. They would also support your
career and ways that, okay, they would give you a personalized
advice, they would give Be personalized feedback on how to
improve and they would also make sure that you have the right
tools to succeed in your career. And so all of these hackathons
work great way for me to connect to those folks who are
like-minded, who are in the same industry as I was, and who had
similar ideas as I had. And so, it just became easier
from there because I could connect to them on a personal
level and then I could just seek out seek them out.
If I am stuck somewhere, if I'm facing a huge problem, perhaps,
and so I think It gives you a hug, don't give you a lot of
opportunity to do that to do that for yourself to build your
own personal skills, to find your own tribe.
If I may lick put it that way and to just you know, develop
your skills in a way that it supports your career for the
long run rather than the short haul itself.
Yeah, I can imagine, I think it's interesting you point out
that the more you help people, the more you read code.
So you also get better at reading code, basically, which
also involves debugging that same code.
Even though you might not be familiar in and actually writing
that code still reading is the separate skill.
I feel like which obviously is Jason.
Yeah, yeah. And I think this is something
that a lot of hackers in the community do, if you are at a
hackathon. It's so there might be like a
competitive Spirit between teams that do want to win.
At the end of the axon, there are a lot of team members and
experience hackers who know that that particular comparatives can
competitiveness doesn't come from the fact that they want to
win. Haha.
Done. But they want to focus on is
just holding their own skills and the way that they do that is
working on their own project and but on the side helping out
another team with their project if they can.
And so that just helps them develop their skills and it's so
it's a win for everyone at the end of the hackathon, because
the experience hacker got to just make sure that he is in
touch with some of these skills that he hasn't touched
previously. He has worked on, Project is on
Project as well. And so at the end of the
hackathon is just to help the community that has Actually
worked, it works. It worked.
Its way to the end by helping each other out and working on
their own skills that they want to do in the first place.
Yeah, I mean, I like that competitiveness.
We know work. Environment is usually not like
a sense. I feel from others.
Like we're are usually in this together to make it happen and
we're not competing with anyone else not even amongst each
other. It's just, there's enough for
everyone to go around. Basically, yes.
And then in hackathon environment, I do feel like the
environment obviously if there's like a prize.
Or that's what our competitiveness gets out.
But then still, you're competing to create the most value.
I feel like in the shortest amount of time to do the coolest
Innovative Thing versus another team in that way.
So that's then I think that might be one of the few
competitive aspects that you can have in developing software.
Of course, yes. What do I bring software?
It is always common. That you understand that there
is a collaborative culture in place even in your workplace.
There would be a collaborative culture and So hackathons even
there are teams involved. They teach you how to actually
collaborate on projects together.
Whether it's thinking about projects through kid, have very
basic you working on a virtual environment, not everybody is in
the same space so you need to come up with ideas on how to
sink on the project or whether it is just helping out.
Another teammate, another hacker who's sitting up beside you but
it's in a different team but it's all stuck on a problem so
you don't want that. And so what do you do?
Is generally make sure that you help them out but at the same
I'm you are there for your team developing all sorts of methods
that can help you think and work on the project together.
And so just help to develop a bunch of skills, a bunch of
interpersonal skills as well. For example, it builds up, you
know, how to work. Collaboratively, how to build,
you know, a team structure, how to pick up the right tools, so
that your team is set up for success, and they don't have to
worry about collaboration or syncing up or finding ulcers
when they are working on a project.
And so there aren't You blockers for you during that weekend
because you are there for a short period of five minutes.
So you want to make sure that you made most of your time.
Yeah, I mean, in in a fast-paced environment, whether it's an
organization or a hackathon with people that are really
passionate and enthusiastic, I can imagine that for some people
that can also feel daunting where they already have their
their own insecurities like, they feel like they might not
belong or they're not good enough.
Like do hackathons, pay specific attention to those people as
well because obviously if you have those feelings and you come
into that environment that Just like multiply whatever you're
feeding in that way which is a sad side effect.
I feel like of course yeah and I think I am a good example of the
person. You just described I myself
during my first hackathon, I was really hesitant to go there and
participate just because I was sure that my skills weren't at
par that I couldn't really contribute meaningfully to a
team which would then ensure that they win the hackathon
because they were there to do that.
And so I was Ali hesitant. But the friend of mine actually
told me that hackathons are much more about just winning or
completing a project. The way that you sculpt it out,
it's about learning. It's about networking.
It's about just just having fun come with us over for one
weekend. We participate in a hackathon
every weekend and so it won't matter if we lose this one.
So, just take that pressure off. Come with us and we would just
work together on a project. That's that's a simple as that.
And so I did like go to that hackathon.
I did eventually build a project.
I did. But I tried my level best to
actually work on something and create something by the end of
the week weekend. And so I realized it's much more
than that during a hackathon. It's a whole sort of
Celebration, we went there, we built a project.
We started building a project, we worked with different teams
who were there because they were building on something similar.
And so we just exchanged ideas work done.
The same technology. Try to debug together during
night time. They like everybody was talking
Tired and so they wanted a break.
And so somebody pulled out the guitar and they were like
jamming to songs and everyone was like they're in the
community. So it's it's super fun.
Just it's relaxing as well and other taste same time, you work
even skills. It's so fun like that with
hackathons and general. I think there is a lot of
support that companies who are sponsoring those hackathons
provide for beginners. There's great documentation for
you to get started with companies even send their
representatives. And if you're working at, if you
are at an average hackathon, a coach would be there to support
you. Problems, the things that I do,
basically, they are there to help you out.
Get started, get settled easy. And if you are facing issues,
you can always reach out to a coach at an advantage hackathon.
The organizers are there to ensure that they understand that
there are a lot of beginners, who would be attending the event
for the first time who have no idea what a hackathon is and who
have never been to a similar event before.
And so it's their responsibility.
Our job to just put together, some tools are a kid basically
that can help them. Settle in and get started.
And then be there personally to provide personalized feedback
and just provide personal help as they go.
And so, during these events, it is quite common to see the lot
of beginners are there at the event who pair up with either
experienced hackers on the day of the event in the
team-building session or they're just a group of the universe who
want to work together on a project.
So they have like an idea in mind but they don't know the
technology the best. And so what you can do is just
show up at this event And former team whichever team that you
want to formed. It's not really necessary to
have experienced hackers. But yeah, it would be definitely
beneficial because you could learn from them.
And so former team for yourself and then you'd be able to see
that there are certain sources that are active that we can.
For example, there are certain sponsors that after active of
brought their documentation, there are certain tools that are
act that there is the organizing team has set up for you so that
you can get asked. Get started and start building
something. There are mentors in place who
can help you out with a certain piece of technology if you're
stuck there are there. Also judges who come in during
the course of the hackathon just to chat up with hackers and see
what the vibe is and if they're stressed just calm them down a
bit. And so there are all sorts of
different ways that organizers support hackers with these
events. They would make sure that it's
accessible to everyone. And so for beginners, especially
do some Like something stupid and sure that these are some of
the examples, another thing that I've seen organizers do, which
is absolutely incredible is have a best beginner price.
So if you're a beginner Advocate on, they support a best beginner
hack price, you can participate in opt-in for that price they'll
check your project and then whichever like amongst the
beginner hackers. If you have the best project,
then you also win a prize in mlh hackathons just by participating
in a hackathon and demoing your hack.
You get it to show off with the person list item with sticker,
for that particular event, which is I, which I feel is absolutely
incredible because it gives, as I said, hackathons are away to
collect exclusive stickers and so that was my way of collecting
exclusive stickers as well. A lot of I do a lot of these
hacks. I know another coach friend of
mine who actually collects these stickers and they have like, a
whole wall of. I demoed stickers now, which is
super incredible to see ya. Whoa!
I mean I like that you put emphasis on.
It's not about what you put. Out.
Right? It's not about what you actually
do but it's more so about the byproducts that come through
out, exercising, whatever you want to do there.
I whether that's collaborating with people whether that's
sharing knowledge or gaining knowledge, on a thing that you
didn't know before and even with the prize pools involved like
those are all added benefits to that whole experience.
I feel like so it's not necessarily about your output
but more so the outcomes that go of participating in such an
event and being amongst people that also are there for the same
experience. Interesting in in joining
hackathons and going to hackathons like I feel like
organizations more and more are going to organize hackathons
themselves. What would you say
distinguishes? Like a good hackathon or a great
hackathon from ones that are not as great.
Like is there a specific thing that you can point out?
Like there's a lacking guidance or coaches?
Or what would that be? I think as long as you're
thinking from a perspective of hackers first the something that
we follow in Major League hacking as well, if you Hackers
first while making most of your decisions, just to ensure that
they are having a good experience at the event, you are
hackathon is sure to be a success.
There are, of course different aspects while organizing have
downwards, whether it's from a logistical point of view, if
it's a student hackathon, then you also have to think about
sponsorship getting raising funds to actually support that
hackathon getting the right permissions, Etc.
If it's a car packet on, then you want to have to think about
different things, whether it's finding the right space giving
the like that. Form etcetera, Etc.
And so all of this, those are logistical issues that you can
work out with a good team. So it comes down to these two
things, making your decisions hackers first, and then forming
a good team, which can support, which are passionate about
hackathons and which to want to contribute meaningfully, I have
seen hackathons, right? I've actually seen a hackathon
being run by like a limited number of people limited number
of resources and being the best hackathon that I've been to.
I've also seen hackathons which have like a huge organizing team
and A You'd set of resources, but they still couldn't pull off
a great hackathon, and a good hacker experience.
Altogether reason being that they were blocked on certain
aspects that they didn't think through.
So, I always come down to this particular code, which helps me
think about hackathons and it is definitely helpful as a coach,
as well as an organizer. For me.
Is that anything that you think can go wrong in a hackathon,
will definitely go around. So as you would from before, and
so from there, what you want to do is just roll back and Okay,
how can I avoid that situation? Yeah, so the better that you can
think it through the better, you'd be able to mitigate the
situations and would be prepared for the for it, as well as
coaches and Major League hacking.
We are trained to handle that stuff.
We focus solely on making sure. That if a problem arises a
hackathon, we are there to Medicated and help resolve these
those issues. And so, that is our job as a
coach. When we go to these hackathons
just to make sure that there are entire hackathon a seamless,
there's no experience hackers And the way that we measure
success for a hackathon is that if there is a problem that are
like this is just one way that we measure success.
But if there is a problem that arises and hackathon and the
hackers had no idea at the end of the event that there was this
problem. Then we would say that yes we
did a good job because we were able to mitigate the issue
before it created, sort of like a big issue at that point and so
there would always be issues at the hackathon.
Is what you want to understand. There would be a fact on which
is absolutely perfect but it's just how well prepared you are.
That you can mitigate. It Foster is What the hackathon
perspective is all about. And so, yeah, I think that's
what I would leave you with. So if you can think of making
decisions hackers first, and then you can think of just
making sure that you have certain, you know, Tools in
place to actually mitigate those issues when they arise.
There would be new issues that arise often and then but you
should be prepared for most of it than it would give you, you
know, a lot of space to handle those.
The other thing that are we generally make sure hack What is
to have like, think ahead and have buffer time as well?
If you are on a tight schedule, just make sure that you have a
good buffer as well because things generally overrun and I
are not on time and so in that case, it would just cause issues
for you. If you are keeping everything on
a tight pack schedule because it wouldn't really work out that
way. So yeah, I mean, I think these
are the three tips that definitely helped a lot of
organizers and hat making their hackathons success.
Whether it's their first hackathon that they're
organizing or it's their 10th, it definitely works for For all
folks across. Yeah.
I feel like it's it's more so General organizing events
advice, right? Like whether you're organising a
conference or a Meetup or specifically a hackathon, then
figuring out what can go wrong in accommodating for that and
giving yourself leeway and buffer time because things will
go wrong. I think that's, that's great
advice all around in that way. I've, I've noticed when you talk
about, like, in my head, their software engineers and
developers, you call them specifically hackers.
Like, is that a term that you use on purpose?
Because they're not really packing?
Computer. I feel like the creating
whatever they want to create. So you were right.
I mostly L hackathon. You would find software
engineers and developers, but there are also ux designers
product managers project managers just like folks who
want to figure out which field they want to go in, so they
don't really have a title. And so, for all of those folks,
it's very, very sad if I just call them developers because
even though they are developers but they are working, they would
prefer a different term they would prefer.
Fine to be called designers, they would prefer to be called
project managers because that's how they associate with.
That's what their role is at the hackathon.
And so, at a project, it's essentially like I do, I get
this question of many, many times that, hey, I'm a ux
designer. What do I want?
What can I do at a hackathon? It's for student developers.
It's not. You are there as well to hone
your skills. As a ux design of course a
project would need a ux designer, right?
If you want if you can assist them in making more if you can
assist them in making a presentation, giving a good demo
with the Manager, you can help them like make a good face in
the presentation in the demo phase.
You can make sure that everything stays connected.
The team is well st. And all of that comes into
picture, so it's not just building a technical skill at
hackathon. You're also building, whatever
skill that you want to build during that particular piece of
project and so coin, them hackers is just our way to make
sure that a and during at a hackathon, all of you are there
to work on your particular goal, as well as the team's goal that
you have defined for yourself at the same.
Time you were there to ensure that at the end of this, you
have a good experience. And so hackers is just a general
term that we use to during the hackathon.
So just use that as a generic term to incorporate everyone
under that umbrella, because then it just wouldn't be fair if
we call them to had a student who had a yeah.
No it makes sense to me. I didn't know that other facets
of like a product team were also involved in the in the skills
obviously, but also in the roles, I Like, so, that's
interesting. It makes sense though, because
if you're building a product, then those facets that you would
find in an organization, you would also find then in a
hackathon because if not, then yeah, those facets are going to
be lacking which is also going to translate in the end result
of whatever you're building, interesting.
And you're mimicking like a team, like an organization's
team. And so, as close as you can get
to that would give you the real world experience.
So that's I think it's a good way to think about things and
Work through things. Yeah, one of my most recent
thoughts is an interesting notion on team size because I
feel like I've lately been working a big team and a big
team has big team problems, which means a lot of people are
in that team. They want to be involved, have
discussions and those discussions then, can sometimes
be endless like that, especially if the meetings unclear or
something like that. And I've also worked in smaller
teams where all of a sudden were aligned way faster.
We add value in a faster way yet the Ocean of having a big team
that solves problems. Faster is like all around in
organizations are we're not delivering fast enough.
Maybe we should throw a bunch of people together and make an even
bigger team. So then again, faster like what
have you seen stuff like that with the rest of Team size and
hackathons as well? Like are there guidelines with
regards to the size that you have as well?
So generally there is an average team of four that the hacker
that the hackathons have like some room for all the reason
being with Two large teams. As you said, it's big
organization problems. It's just endless discussions,
and then no one would get like a scope.
Defined work done, you rather. It would be easier if you define
the scope, even with larger teams.
In an organization, forming sub-teams is a common culture.
The reason being that every sub team is working on it for
project and mostly those teams are four, five or six.
Folks with hackathons there are on an average thumb.
Rule is just to have like four members, you can go solo, you
can go up to 4. There are some hackathons that
allow Up to six members in the team as well.
But I think that's the bottleneck Point anything beyond
that and you will be able to provide meaningfully to the gold
and so it eventually would turn into like the school assignment
project that you worked on where there are some students who are
doing all the work and then there are some students who are
not doing any work. Yes.
And then there's this interpersonal issues happening
at that point. Yeah, like that.
I mean you mentioned a bunch of times your hackathon coach but I
have no clue. I mean I have an idea of what
that Means now just within with this conversation, I have no
clue if I wanted to be one how to be one, like to go to a
course or like, do you do you helped organize hackathon
events? Like how do you become a coach?
Yeah, so I think the to become an invalid code, of course, you
have to go through a series of interviews, but in rock, to get
to those interviews. Just have some sort of
experience with hackathons. If you're an active hacker in
the community, if you're already helping out hackers, the way
that I just described, then it's easier to just apply and be a
coach, because that's what we do, we help.
Hackers, we help out organizers. We have about sponsors and like
anybody who's associated with the hackathon, our job is to
make sure that it's a good experience for them.
And so if you're already doing that as active hacker in the
community, it's easier for you to transition to that role,
because it's the same thing that we're doing.
It's just that we're doing with the, not it with an organization
and you you're doing voluntarily.
If you already do it, voluntarily that means that you
already have a passion for it. And so that's easier for you for
us to just ensure that. Okay.
Yeah, these skills are transferable.
You already have A passion for it and we would love to, you
know, interview you for the role.
See if you're a good fit and then like on board you to our
journey. And so that's I think the way
that I put it in terms of like the logistical point the
interviews Etc. There are three interviews that
I took to be a coach one was with my manager, one was with my
managers manager and then what goes with the CEO of the
company. And so both the all of those
three interviews had different formats, but most of them really
resolved around My passion for hypothalamus be how I mitigate
problems or, you know, handle some unknown issues if they come
up to me. Yeah and see like my
experiences. What led me what personal
experience have led me to this point where I am interviewing
for a coach's role? Yeah, interesting.
I like that you can already like, how do you say that gain
experience in that role or have the role without having the
role? Let's say, yes.
And then I Really get the role in a more formal way.
But the formal part doesn't really matter.
If you love what you're doing, anyway, the formality of it
doesn't really matter at the end of the day, of course, one of
the latter things I was thinking is like a hackathon for me.
Sounds like a start-up culture, right?
You're trying to build something from 0, to 1 get it live as fast
as possible. You're probably because you're
in such a small team, you're responsible for a lot of facets
and you have to think about more.
So the big picture of things which I feel like translates
more to a start-up culture. But if I'm looking at your
career history, the companies you've been involved in our
more, so, bigger companies, I mean, it's Google Now, it's been
Microsoft in the past, like, why is that, or can you find that
same culture within those companies as well?
Yes, so basically, you're right, any of these hackathon project
that you've seen you building something from scratch and so
it's more of a start-up culture. Yeah, I think working with in my
professional life, I do like to work with big Tech because it
provides more structure for me and I feel Feel like, like there
are people who do well or work. Well, when it's a start-up
culture there. People who just contribute more
meaningful, if they like, are thrown into a problem head-on
and then they can just figure their way out from there.
Yeah, for me, I feel like during the initial years of my career,
I really wanted to have a structured environment where I
am not to run into problems. I have the space and time to
learn those skills gather that knowledge and then solve those
problems. Myself with the startup culture.
I think there is built faster, fail fast.
And then move on to the next bit and then try something else and
try something else. Yeah.
That like that's generally the start of culture.
And a lot of startups that I have that, I have seen with big
Tech, or with bigger organizations.
It's much more different. That it's much more about doing
the right thing rather than building faster.
And fading faster, we don't want to fade faster.
We want to do the right thing from the beginning and then
build a product with yeah. Yeah.
But in order to get that Scott startup culture within big Tech,
it's again the same thing. There are bigger teams, And big
Tech that, you know, have huge projects and like large teams
and then you have like, you get lost into the entire bit of it
all. But then there are teams within
this big Tech which are which have like a smaller sub team as
well as I said before. It's wanna sub team, a big
project, but a smaller sub team, six or seven people handling
that one project so which is essentially comes down to the
team culture itself. So in big Tech, it's not that
all teams have the same culture across org, it's Morty.
Dependent on how your particular team function functions.
For example, my team and Microsoft were was like a huge
team and so it worked on Commerce financial services and
internal tools for Microsoft and so they had a different working
environment and culture as compared to my team right now
here in Google, which is the played a monetization team, and
our job is to make sure that it is good for the app developers
to monetize through that, my want is their apps to our
features on console and so we build those features.
And so, Our job is to make sure that our core product stays like
compliant and we aren't using features that are helpful for
developers. And so we scoped out our
problems in a way that we actually work in a fast-paced
environment. Yeah.
Now it again, depends on team to team.
If you there are teams in Google that work on a Sprint, Sprint
races, that our teams at Google that work on a nearly gold
basis. There are teams which work on
like a quarterly basis, their quarterly goals and they have
check-ins like that, but it all again, depends down.
Comes down to the team. You're still with hackathons
getting that culture of, you know, working through a spent
over a period of weekend and then working through your boat
it just is the similar way. But then your team decide your
team culture decides how it's going to look like, whether it's
gonna be something like a start-up or whether it's going
to be a lot of bureaucratic make decisions getting the right
thing first and then but if something later yeah I mean then
you have kind of the best of both, right?
Because there are personal preferences involved in there.
You already said like you like your environment to be more
stable probably because you you experience the startup culture
so much with the hackathons that you're like.
Okay maybe my my more so day-to-day should be a bit more
stable. Yeah.
I don't want fires to put out fires during the day to do work.
Yeah, I can imagine. So I like that big Tech all
first. Like the best of both in there
as well. I think if it would only offer
one side then it wouldn't be as successful as it would be
otherwise correct. Yeah, one of the last thoughts I
had is how do you balance? Once what you're doing on a
day-to-day, as well as being involved with this passion that
you have for hackathons because I feel like a lot of people want
to be involved in certain communities whether they're
meetups or conferences or stuff like that, but they feel like
it's all going to be extra time or own time or anything like
that. How do you find a balance in
there? Yeah.
So I think if you so it's just like something like do you like
cooking or do you like? Yeah, okay so that's like I
don't have enough time for all. All the homies.
I have loved it. So when like, when you say that,
you like, cooking, that means that during the course of the
weekend, if you find like an interesting recipe, you would
love to, you know, take time out of your schedule and then try to
just cook that restrict Edition, cook that recipe, and then try
something for yourself. And so it's just like I think
that a hobby at this point, if I have a weakened and I have
availability that we can, I just try and incorporate a hackathon
during that weekend with major league hackings easier for me,
that Don't have to find hackathons myself behind it for
me and I just have to show up and be my best self.
But yeah. I just put it like that.
So I put in like I let my manager know that hey, this is
my availability during that weekend.
And so like job with Google and my day-to-day job is from Monday
to Friday, that's the time that I'm actually making sure that I
am giving 100% to my organization with big Tech
again. One thing I love, it's flexible.
So I it's not like a working are sort of situation where I have
to be up at 9 a.m. and I have to close down at 6 p.m. and I have
to get everything done during that period of time.
I can start my day very well at an 11 a.m. and then finish off
really late at 8 p.m. it all depends upon my project.
If I project needs me out there to help it out.
If I'm already done with my work, then it's okay, that's
completely fine. And during the weekends, it's a,
so the one thing that is very, very common across big Tech is
that during weekends? You're not supposed to work,
you're not Really on the it gives you time to relax and
unwind and do your own thing. And so I use this time to work
at hackathons and support hackathons and make sure that I
am there at one event or the other, if I have some time.
So if I'm not traveling that vegan or if I don't have to
adult that weekend, something I go to the hackathon and find my
time there. So it's just I think it comes
down to just finding time just to manage stuff for yourself.
Yeah. People find time for hobbies, I
do find time for Hackathons is just like that.
And if someone asks me, what my hobby is, I honestly have no
answer because I spent my time like this and so it just doesn't
leave me much scope to figure out what a hobby is for me.
And so, it just comes down to that.
And I think when it comes, when we talk about managing time, it
just comes down to the fact that you can compartmentalize the
bunch of stuff for you. Whether it is working on your
own skills because I don't want to overburden myself by just
going to hackathons and helping others.
I do want to spend some time developing I skills as well.
And also, at the same time, I do want to, like, put some time for
my, you know, if I want to travel to spend some time with
my friends family, so it's just compatible like the four weeks
in a month that I just compartment like this.
One of them to figure out what to do with each of them.
Yeah. With the would you say your end
goal is to be more and more involved in hackathons?
Or do you like kind of the balance that you have now?
Because if you ask me with regards to podcasting, I would
love to have these conversations more days.
I'll every day. They all day long, except it's
not really feasible because I have to do everything around it
Logistics wise, as well as I have my day-to-day job, like,
it's not realistic, but it would, I would like that.
So what about you? Yeah, again, it as I said, it's
not realistic. And So currently the balance, I
think that I have, I have finally made here, even with
shifting to a new country adapting to a new culture, going
to these hackathons in a different country.
I could see that there were a lot of differences from my
country and in UK, The way that you can have it also hosted and
so adopting to all of that really did take time.
And so right now I am at a routine and schedule which works
best for me. Yeah, and I would think that I
can go above and beyond, but it would end up like me, killing
myself. What most sustainable, not
sustainable. And so, if I want to do this for
the Long Haul, I've been doing this for over three years now, I
think I asked out any 2019. So it would be like the fourth
year and run and so I do want to do this for a long time.
I've already been doing it for so long and so if I timed myself
out, we get after a weekend then would just wouldn't make any
sense for me to continue doing something like that.
I do things out of my love and passion for that particular
event and so if I want to continue doing that I want to
make sure that I take care of myself as well.
So I do take my weekends off. I do take time off and just
exist in my room, not do anything at all.
I do all of that stuff and the reason I do it is just to
recharge refresh. And then be be my best self.
These hackathons. Because the one thing that I
have seen by you coach, is that you do have to be your best self
at a hackathon. There are other hackers who are
dependent on you for help. And so if I put in like instead
of hundred night, just to 99% of my energy, it won't make sense
to me or it won't be fair to the hackers to that.
I am supporting that weekend. I do want to give my best.
I do want to give my 100% but I'm performing my duties as a
coach and so, but I am at these events.
I want to make sure that I'm refreshed recharged.
And without any trouble whatsoever, I keep want to keep
my troubles out the door and then be there at the event just
to make sure that it's fun for me.
It's fun for everyone and it's just a great, huge successful
event as such. So, in order to balance all of
that out, I think the current situation works perfectly for me
but I want to change that again. I'm going to India as I said
this particular in the coming weeks and so I what I did was I
did not take up any hackathon event during that period of
time. Yeah, I could have, I would have
definitely. Beacons, where I would be
available, I won't have much to do.
And so it would be great to go to a hackathon.
But this is the time where I want to carve out time to just
spend time with my friends and family in India, who I haven't
seen in a while, and so compartmentalizing.
And just trying to have that time separately, having a
personal personal work, and a hackathon life balance, is
absolutely brilliant and essential.
I think for everyone, yeah, I like that a lot like its, it
makes it more realistic, right? If the thing doesn't give you
energy, Gigi anymore. And it's more of a must then
it's not going to be sustainable.
You're going to hate it. At some point, you're going to
drop it. But the only way to do this for,
as long as you have like, four years is awesome.
Makes it the only way you can do is to find balance in whatever
you're doing right? Whether it's time to recharge
and spend time with friends and family, or finding balance with
work and your own time. Basically, I think that's the
only way to do it which is really cool.
Cool. I've really enjoyed this
conversation. So shreeka an insight Into the
world of hackathons. I thought it was fascinating and
I actually learned a lot more than I thought.
I would, I thought I had it more so figured out how it would
work, but there's a lot of facets, I didn't think of or
have learned throughout this conversation.
I think our audience will have as well.
I hope so. Is there anything you still want
to share before we leave off with regards to that?
Yeah, I think if you're listening to this podcast and
you feel if you are have not been to hack it on before or if
you are an experienced actor. Either way, I hope that this
motivates everyone to Just stay involved with the community,
even if your experience hacker, try to give back and come back
as an alumni. For that particular hacker, a
lot of my friends who are working in big Tech or startups
to come back to these hackathons to actually support their
community. And if you are a beginner or a
first-time hacker and a considering going to sell a
similar event, please do so, it's super fun and I hope that
is this inspires you to go there again, if you want more advice
or just want to chat up my leg. Is always open.
You can always reach out to be just drop in a message.
I would love to support you if it is in any way that I can, but
with respect to hackathons or in any other way, but yeah, being
there for the communities is one thing that I would say you
should take away from this hack this podcast, if nothing else.
But yeah, thank you so much Patrick.
It was so great to chat with you.
I feel like whenever I talk about hackathons in such a space
it's just ignites that passion again and me.
And so it's really great to chat.
Once in a while about this. And so it was so nice.
Thank you so much for this discussion.
No problem. Like I love that, I can feel the
passion and energy like with some people, we talk about
certain subject and maybe it's the way they talk about it but
for you I could feel like a burning passion about it.
So I really think that's admirable and I appreciate that.
I'm going to round it off here everyone.
Thank you so much for listening. I'm going to put all such Rico's
socials in the description below.
Check her out. Let her know you came from our
show. And with that being said, thanks
again for listening. We'll see you on the next one.